March 30, 2025 • 69 mins
Family, relationships, marriages, motherhood... the theme of this week's episode. First, Dr. Morgan Cutlip comes on to share her expertise on marriages after publishing the book A Better Share. She helps couples break the cycle and reflect on the mental load that's damaging partnerships. She also gave some advice for singles on staying out of this cycle with intentional dating. Then Olympian Kelsey Hunter comes on to share her experience with the lifestyle of a professional athlete, having a job, and being a mother. She also shares how things can be done better in women's sports and how the average person can support women athletes.
Follow Dr. Morgan: @drmorgancutlip
Follow Kelsey Hunter: @kelseystewart
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
With Morgan Feldsman for attacking family relationships, marriages in motherhood.
This week I have on first a fellow Morgan, doctor
Morgan Cutlep. She's the author of the book A Better Share,
and in it she helps couples navigate the mental load
in their relationships and the toll that it takes. And
then my friend, Olympian and old softball teammate Kelsey Hunter
(00:38):
joins to share how she competes at a professional softball
level while juggling a job and motherhood and everything else,
plus the ways we can do better in the area
of women's sports. I'm joined right now by a fellow Morgan,
but a doctor Morgan cutlet She is known for balancing motherhood,
(01:01):
being an author, and helping others understand relationships better.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm so excited to talk with you because just looking
at all of your content, you are really helping a
lot of people. And it's funny that relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Are a part of everybody's life, but man, do we
not understand what.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We do not?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I love getting relationship experts on here because we
can all use a little bit more help. And I'm
going to come at this from so many different angles.
We got a lot to discuss here. But to start this,
I want you to share your story and how you
got into this where you are now and releasing the
book that you have a better share like what inspired this?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Give me this Backmtory.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, so my story goes very far back.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Give it to So.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
My dad went back to school for his doctorate in
psychology when I was in grade school, and he used
to take me to class with him, so I attended
some of his doctoral I don't think they'll let you
do this now, but for some reason, I was probably
like six or seven. I would pack a fake briefcase
in candy and paper and I would just hang with him,
(02:14):
and it was quite a long drive, and we'd play
this game where he would give.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Me almost like a fake case of a.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Family or a kid or a couple, and he would say,
how would you help them?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What do you think is going on? What interventions would
you do?
Speaker 6 (02:28):
And it was just I don't know, I feel like
he needed someone to work with in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So he's like, I'll just prepare you for this now.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
But it just became one of my most favorite and
treasured memories with my dad, and so I think.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That started my trajectory.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
He went on to have a practice and then start
creating relationship education courses before everyone was doing that, and
I started traveling with him to conferences and speaking engagements,
and eventually, as I grew up, I decided to just
pursue my own education and follow in his foot steps.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And so, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
I think it was maybe when I was a senior
in high school or freshman in college, I said, Dad, someday,
I'm going to do something to help women. And I
don't know what that looks like because I don't know
what's going on in my life yet, but I know
that's what I want to do. And so we worked
together for around fifteen years. And then man, when I
ended up having our daughters, were like fast forwarding in time.
(03:23):
Had our daughter Fie, and I just could not believe
how motherhood shook my world. I thought I got a
degree in human development and family science, like I should
know what I'm doing, and I had no clue, and
I was overwhelmed and I was lost. And I knew
at that moment, if I was experiencing this mothers everywhere
(03:46):
had to experience something similar, and so I knew that
at some point I come out of this sort of fog,
and at that point I wanted to figure out how
to help moms navigate that better.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And so that was my first book. But like this second.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Piece of that experience is that you could not believe
how quickly resentment grew in our relationship after kids, and
primarily from me toward my husband. And we have a
great marriage, and we did then, but just I was like,
how can my life change so dramatically and yours has
(04:21):
pretty much stayed the same, And that took us years
to navigate two kids later, really to figure out a
better way to manage this time and the massive amount
of responsibilities. And so that really became the fuel or
the motivation for my second book, which is a better
share to help couples through. Just like modern family life
is relentless, we need more tools to navigate it better.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I think having all of the tools to navigate crazy
life is so helpful in so many different ways. Let's
start on that first path with motherhood and how it
shook you and changed you, and that inspired that first book.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
What was this moment.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Where you realized, like, holy crap, I am ill prepared
to be a mom, even though everybody always says you're
a woman.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So you have the natural instinct to be a mom.
You should figure it out. It'll be fine.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
I think that's what sets us up to be really shook,
is that we think it will be intuitive, and for
some people it is. For me, it was not, or
at least not in the ways I thought it would be.
So I think the moment I was shook was almost immediately.
I remember, actually, our daughter's eleven now, and I told
her this maybe the day before I left to come here,
(05:33):
and we were driving in the car and I was like,
I'll never forget bringing you home and sitting in the
rocker and I was nursing her and being like.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
Oh my gosh, this is forever.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
This is forever, and what a massive responsibility and undertaking.
And I'm not a real anxious person, but and I
know this is hormones and all the things, but the
amount of anxiety I felt after becoming a mom was crippling.
And it just remember and if I had to describe
(06:06):
the feeling after, like the scary feeling, and it's all
these beautiful pieces too, but just almost like a homesickness.
And I think it is because what you used to
feel comfortable in, what used to feel like home, has shifted,
because you have this massive new identity that's taking shape
and it happens literally overnight, and so yeah, I felt
(06:26):
it right away.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I love that you're recognizing and sharing that moment because
most of the time motherhood is shared in not just
social media but in our society as this beautiful thing
and you should want this and this is so important
for you to have, but to share a very real experience.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
For yeah, this is great.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I brought life into the world.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But also I'm freaking out and this is not what
anybody prepared me for.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Yes, and there's research that talks about the changes and
like for men and for women have kids, like what
affects the relationship, But for women what they find are like,
the two biggest sort of shifts that happen that are
really impactful are the feeling of an increase in responsibilities,
which is for sure, but then the other is loss
of freedom. And I think that's the piece that hit
(07:17):
me the hardest.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Was just I just was like, oh my.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Gosh, I cannot go to the bathroom without bringing in
contraptions or it just the simplest things felt really difficult.
And I think that was just it just took an adjustment.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's what we don't talk about.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
All the adjustments that we need to make in our life,
in our marriage, in our schedules after kids, and are
the picture that are normal and everyone has to do it.
But I'm like, why is this existing in the dark.
We need to talk about this stuff because it's it
can be jarring.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So thank you for bringing the life on that and
writing a whole book about it.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
What was the name of that first one.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
It's called Love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I really like that And I did some research on
that one, not a parent myself, but it from what
I can tell on the reviews on that book, I
feel like it's a very great.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
One, especially for a first time moms.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yea, and just understanding that what you're experiencing is really normal.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
It's not all butterflies and rapmos.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
If there's anything I've learned in this life, everything is
not butterflies and ramos much for any of the time.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, And walking down.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
To your next book, how was that experience for you
when Okay, you have this moment of Okay, I'm losing
my freedom, I'm now a mom.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
This is forever.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But then also these struggles are happening with your husband
and you're trying to navigate all of it at the
same time.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
A little bit. So our situation was unique.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
So I'm from Ohio, but we were living in Virginia
when I got pregnant, right outside of DC.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And then my parents.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
If you're from the Midwest, you know when you get
close to retirement, you moved to Florida.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So that's the thing we retire.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
So my parents.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Moved to Florida and we were pregnant, and my husband's like,
why don't we just go move to be close to
your family and want the support and all the things.
And I worked with my dad at the time, so
we ended up buying home completely, ripping it down, and
rebuilding it from a distance. So I finished internship and
(09:25):
then we moved to Florida when I was nine months pregnant.
So two months after our daughter was born, my husband
was relocated to southern California. My goodness, Okay, it's like
very intense and so I ended up staying behind because
I just knew, like when you adjust to a new job,
(09:46):
it's just an ordeal. And I was like, I'm going
to stay here, I have my family, you go do
your thing, and when we find a house, I'll meet you.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And so from around two months to.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Like eight or nine months or so, we did long distance.
So I navigated these early years or not early years,
early months of motherhood. But a lot happens in these
early months on my own. And I think so when
you talk about like the struggles in our marriage, like
I'm not sure how clute in my husband was, because
we got along and things were fine, but I was
(10:16):
struggling and I was building resentment quickly, and it really
had a lot to do with just I was the
only one in the know of what was going on
with our daughter.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I made all the adjustments because he wasn't around to.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
How I took care of her, and adjustments in my
own life and schedule, and we finally reconnected.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think that's when things got.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Tense because I was just regularly frustrated. I was like, oh, like,
you don't know what you're doing now with our daughter,
Like just move, I'll take care of it, which makes
things worse because then.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He didn't jump in as much.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
And so it took us a while until we got
to a place where we could really address some of
the stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Really, it took me getting pregnant.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
With our son where I was like, I don't think
he's ever going to be born because I will hold
on to him until I have this sort of reassurance
that things are going to be different this time around.
So we had to unpack some of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And when you start to approach that conversation with your husband,
because this also adds in another layer of what we've
been taught in our society for men to not talk
about their feelings, to not experience things in the same way.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That we are.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right, we're taught completely different things to the men's credit
in these scenarios. Yes, so what happens when you approach
your husband and you're like, Okay, we got to break
what's happening. We got to break this cycle. We need
to talk about some things.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Yeah, it didn't go well for a while. If I'm
being transparent, and I think a lot of times, if
I share a piece of content, or if people hear
an interview or something or even in my books, I
tell a lot of personal stories. Something I get time
and time again is it's that I'm relatable and it's
because I've lived through this stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So it it took us.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
A long time, and it really took me making some
changes too, and how I asserted myself, like men are
taught really did not talk about their emotions unless it's anger.
A lot of men it has part to do with
how they're wired, but also a lot of men feel
like emotions are like unnecessary, kind of it's like, why
(12:21):
are wasting.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Our time here, let's cut to the chase.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
So we've got that, but then women are really conditioned.
And then in motherhood it's necessity for a while to
take care of a kid, but to stuff what we
need down and to back burner it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And then growing up.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
We usually receive all these messages around what it means
to have needs, like we're needy, we're too sensitive, we're dramatic,
like too much. And so I had a battle some
of my own messaging and in our dialogue around what
it meant to have needs, what it meant to assert
myself in my relationship, And so that was like my work,
that's part of what I talk about my first book,
(12:55):
this individual piece, and then as I learned to assert them,
we had to work on the relationships because my husband
would say things like you're so different now, and it
wasn't like a compliment, like you're so different, And I
remember saying to him, I'm not different, I'm the same.
You're just getting all of me, whereas before I was
(13:18):
keeping it from you because I was worried you couldn't
handle it. So I can't go back to that or
else we're not going to be in a good place.
This is a conversation that moves the needle. If I
go back to that, we're not.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Going to be okay.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
But if you're finding my delivery like something you can't receive,
then let's work on how you can receive.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It and how I can deliver it differently.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
But also we got to move through this and that
took some time, but he made adjustments pretty quickly after that,
and it was a game changer in our relationship and
in how I experience a motherhood.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Really, I cannot believe how hard those conversations can sometimes be,
because right you're sitting there think in your head.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
We have to do this.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We have to make this better for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So this is an easy thing. We have to have
this conversation. But when you talked about the resentment, there's
just so much for both of you that was holding there,
and resentment makes it really hard for people to truly
navigate because you're holding on to so many things. Yes,
and so I can imagine having those conversations like you mentioned,
and it took time to really pull back like an
(14:28):
onion and reveal the different layers and work through each one. Yes,
you had mentioned something in some of your content that
was like, and I'm maybe buttraying.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
This, so tell me about saying it wrong.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
But you said the ending.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Of your marriage is closer than you think, and it
all has to do with the cycle that you end.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Up being in.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes, tell me a little bit about that, because I
feel like this pertains to what you're talking about.
Speaker 7 (14:54):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
So, but it says the ending of your marriage starts
sooner than you think. And it's it's not my favorite
type of content to create, honestly, because it's like hitting
that pain point and sometimes it's hard to consume for people.
But also people need to see the cycle, so it's
a tricky thing. Online but it's basically when you know,
these sort of small things start to develop in your relationship,
(15:18):
like missed opportunities when a partner approaches you to talk
about something and then maybe it's shut down or met
with defensiveness or dismissiveness. And a lot of times I'm
going broad strokes here, but a lot of times it's
the woman bringing up the issue and the guy will
respond in one of these ways, and she has two choices,
which is to either get louder, and that usually means
(15:39):
that he gets pushed away even more he distances to
protect himself, or she stuffs it down. And then when
she stuffs it down, he feels good because he's like,
oh great, I have more peace in my life and
I don't have to deal with her emotion or whatever.
She's not upset with me, I think if things are good.
But what happens over time is she starts to disconnect,
she develops that resiment. Meant she starts to pull away,
(16:02):
and so things start to shift in big ways in
the relationship. Maybe their sex life goes out the window.
Perhaps the dynamic becomes more transactional, less relational.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
There's more tension in the relationship and.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
So it's a slow erosion of connection that's happening, and
it's almost like couples are missing it. A lot of
times it's but then you get to a place where
maybe the kids are grown and you're pretty deep into it,
and you look at each other and you're like, we
grew apart or I don't even know you anymore, And
(16:35):
it's because there's these slow erosions.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That we get stuck in the cycle can also.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Look pretty hostile, but a lot of times it's just
this slow sort of disconnecting that takes place for couples.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And when somebody recognizes that this is happening to this cycle.
Is there ever a point where it's too late you
can't fix it? Or is most of the time, as
long as you start to have open connect like communication
and start to discuss what's really happening.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Can you fix it.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I'm a big believer in marriages that can really come
back from pretty dark places, and I've worked with couples
through even things like infidelity and major betrayals, So I
do think that you can be pretty far gone and
still find your way back. But it really requires a
commitment to the relationship. Because commitment is that is this
(17:26):
sort of like piece that keeps you in it when
it's terrible. And so if that's not there and both
partners aren't like, okay, last ditch effort here, let's give.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
It a go.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
If you can't get both people that place, it can
be hard to come back from this.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
But yeah, I think you can be pretty far gone
and still come back. And I think part of it
is you've got to identify and disrupt this cycle and
it's just like this unfortunate thing. But also I believe
it's the beautiful part of relationships, which is that they
will stretch us and challenge us to grow. But like,
the unfortunate part is that a lot of times, to
(18:01):
break this cycle, somebody has to be humble. Somebody has
to be like, Okay, I surrender like we are not
going anywhere good being like this, like we have to
figure something out and get to that place.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you feel like too? It's both partners. You mentioned
the commitment of them wanting.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
To do it, so it really feels like both.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Partners have to be willing to do that. If there is.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
One partner that's not even willing or open to that conversation,
is that where the hard part really lies and deciding
is this not going to work because of that?
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Yeah, I think a lot of times one partner is
more willing to work on it and the other person
is digging their heels in, and it just becomes at
that point.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Very tricky to navigate. So you can get a professional.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Involved and see, but then there are partners who won't
even do that. And so I think where a lot
of marriages end up when they're in this cycle they
reach this point is usually when the one person is
just I'm out of resources here and you're not budging
and I was willing to work on it, but if
you're not gonna work with.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Me, there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
So it becomes this I'm out of options type of decision,
which is really heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And I think in my second book, and.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Not all people will be able to work through these
things because there will be partners that just dig their
heels in. But in my second book, I give a
ton of tools and scripts for how to confront difficult
conversations and difficult moments and conversations because it's a hard
thing to navigate when you're in that dark place and
(19:41):
when you're stuck and you're locked up together, and so
I wanted to spell it out as clearly as possible
to try to equip people to move through it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love that you have that because having the resources,
even when, like you mentioned, if somebody is not budging
on involving a therapist or somebody to mediate that will
give you some more resources. Hopefully at least then you
can know that you've tried absolutely everything at the end
of the day. There's also a part of this that
(20:09):
I think is involved to which your book really addresses, is.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
The mental load.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
The mental load exists for everyone in and outside of relationships.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That is just life.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
That's the experience we have with life.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's busy, it's chaotic.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But even more so for partners and people who have kids.
You want to talk about adding another layer of that load.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
You have so much happening. How does this mental.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Load then also affect these partnerships as there's already this
underlying cycle happening, and then you also have the mental
load on top of that.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
Yeah, I think it just accelerates things. I think this
is it just becomes one major area where there's an
opportunity for a deep resentment and misunderstanding, and so the
mental load, like you said, exists. Everyone has one, men
and women, kids have them. Everybody's got one. But when
it comes to home and family life, research shows time
(21:05):
and time again it's predominantly carried by women, even if
they work inside or outside the home. And so it
exists before kids, but after kids it increases overnight, literally
literally overnight, it becomes wayfuler after you have kids, And
so I think a lot of couples aren't prepared for this.
And my sort of like theory of understanding it is
(21:30):
right after a baby's born, the woman is in that
space of just caretaking for the baby.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All the right hormones are going.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
There's actual changes that happen to us, make us more
tuned to things, make us able to better regulate when
we hear the crying, Like even we can hear different decibels,
so we can actually hear I was listening to somebody
talk like about their husband never woke up to even
hear the baby.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
We actually hear a little bit better.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
So it's all these wild things that sort of set
us up.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
To take more on right out of the gate.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
I always say, with a mental load with home and
family life, the game is just rigged.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
We're just not playing this.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Yeah, I'm like it's rigged.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's rigged.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
And it's like, so we're entering in a motherhood and
all this stuff's going on, and so we just start
doing all of the things, and our partners are like nervous.
Maybe they're not jumping in and if we're not get
in there, change the diper, or they're not a partner
who does take that init ship really easily.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
We're set on a path to.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Where the woman in the relationship will just keep doing
the things in the dark without any awareness. It becomes invisible.
I describe women as the bounty quicker picker uppers because
we are just so absorbent. We go around soaking up
all of these tasks, and before you know it, we're
like three four years into having kids, five years into
having kids, and we're the ones who were handling everything.
(22:52):
And it's not to blame us, it's not to necessarily
blame our partners.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I don't always feel like that's productive.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Even though I understand and how you could, but we
just get to a place where we're so saturated we
don't know how we got here.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So much of it's invisible.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Our partners don't get it. Then we try to explain it,
and then they get defensive or they might say something
like you just make things harder than you need to,
or I don't know why you worry so.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Much about this stuff, and so that.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Those tuggered me, and I'm not Yes, it's so common.
I was on a podcast earlier and the husband said that,
and I was like, oh, my goodness, it's so good glad.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'm so glad we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
This because it's such a common response.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So then you get this layered.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
I'm struggling and I'm overwhelmed, and now I am coming
to my partner who's supposed to be my source of
security and safety and they don't get it and they're
minimizing it, and so I feel less safe. And so
now we're entering into that cycle. Okay, do I get
louder I really am struggling, or do I stuff it
down and try to manage it? And even sometimes women
will judge themselves when they get that feedback from their partners.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Oh, I guess I am.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Making a big deal out of nothing, or maybe I
am needy, or maybe there is something wrong with me.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And women are.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Already so good at judging ourselves. We just don't need
more of that. So I'm trying to remember where the
question started. But just like, it's so easy to just
slide into that pattern and before you know it, we're
like in this sort of trench of disconnection that can
start to develop.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
No, you answered all of that, and I love the
different pathways that it went on. And I'll admit, as
someone who hasn't had kids yet, and as I've gotten.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Older, my view of having kids.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Once upon a time, if you would have met young Morgan,
she'd have been like, I'm having a white.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Picket fence, I will have a porch, I will have
four children in life will be amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, And Morgan now is a completely different person who's
very questionable on if I want to have kids, what
does that look like?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
What's going to change for me?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm having very hard questions that I'm asking myself. But
the one that instantly keeps revolving is I will have
kids if I have a partner that's willing and able
to actually be a partner of having kids.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I think that's yeah. I'll see on social.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Media a lot of people wrestling with this thing, a
lot of women wrestling with the same question, and or
it will.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Be nasty, or I'll just be like this one, I'm
never having.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Kids, and that's oh, that's not a message I want
to put out in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I believe that becoming a mother is part.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Of why it's hard is because it shines a light
on all of these areas you just have not developed.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And grown in. And so it's supposed to expand us.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
A marital relationship supposed.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
To do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
It's tricky when the other person won't do that too
or but that's the sort of hard part but also
the beautiful part.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So I am like pro all of these things. I'm
a fan. I also understand it.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
But I do think the differentiator that younger generations are
paying more attention to, which is.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
A good thing, is what kind of partner do.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
You choose and how involved are they going to be
and how open are they having these conversations that don't
spiral into defensiveness and all the stuff that derails them.
But that becomes the piece that can change your experience
in motherhood.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Very much so.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And that was very much where or I was to
your point. It started as I'm having all the kids.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
I'm never having kids.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So now it's I want kids, but I also want
a really good partner, and the partner has to come first.
And if I don't find that, then I will be
okay with whatever else looks like. But that's more important
to me if I'm going to bring kids into the
world to have that partnership that really matters. That is
talking about the things that you're discussing with the cycles
(26:43):
and stuff. It also leads me into another question. And
I know this is a little bit different because you
primarily work with couples and marriages and stuff, but I
would love your perspective for someone like me who is single.
Isn't Mary doesn't have kids, but I want to and
I want to find a partner.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
How do I.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
As I'm getting into these relationships making sure that I'm
avoiding that cycle and avoiding and meaning it not happening,
not avoiding it, seeing it or running away. Is there
things that I can do and set up for myself
that I can potentially hope that whatever moment in time
I do get married, I don't fall into this same pattern.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yes, so I'll say a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
So my dad actually his sort of his main point
of interest in his main body of work is around
dating and singles. So he has a book called How
to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk, And.
Speaker 8 (27:40):
That's all I needed.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Yes, it is such a good and it's for men
or for women, and it's such a good book.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
And it really gives practical things.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
You should get to know about a potential partner to
predict what they'll be like in a long term relationship.
It's based on tons and tons of research that he
went through and then he basically organized all that research
into five things you got I get to know about
somebody that's predictive in the long term, because sometimes what
you get in the beginning is like not what you're
going to get later, So how do you figure that out?
So I would say that is a really good place
(28:10):
to start. Is like things that you get to know
in the early dating time is it's really important you
do that with intention and you do it with know how.
The second pieces, it's funny. I was having a conversation
with someone yesterday who's dating and she's actually the editor
of my book, and she's I can't believe how much
it's impacted how I'm showing up in my relationship. And
(28:33):
so she's my boyfriend or whatever, was over and we
were making dinner and he went to take the garbage out.
Just normally I would jump up and I'd be like,
oh no, I'll get that, like it's fine, but I'm
sitting back and letting him do things. And so I
talk about in my second book something called piling on precedence,
(28:53):
which is one of the ways I think the mental
load gets really full really fast, which is that early
in our relationship, as women especially, we're the good caretakers,
and so we like to do stuff for our partners
because it feels good, which I think is beautiful. But
also when we do the things at first they appreciate it,
and then after that it's out of their minds.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They don't think about it anymore.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
And so how you set up the precedents early on
in a relationship is like shaping what you're going to
own and be expected to do.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And we do it and we're not even aware that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We'd do it.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh if, yeah, you're talking about this now, and now
I'm sorting to think about all the things.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yes, all the things my husband and I got together.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
I remember even early in our marriage he would work
and I'd be working.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I was in school and working.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
And I would go to the grocery store. I'd think
of the meals, i'd cook the dinner, and he'd get
up to do the dishes.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I'd be like, no, baby, I got this.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
I'm like the perfect housewife or something. And then I
remember a few years in a marriage, I was doing
the dishes and he wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Even fight me anymore. And so is he a jerk?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Or did we get into this past where I pushed
him out? I fired him from the job, and so
he was like, sure, I'll sit on the couch.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
While you did.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
So we had to walk. We have to walk these
things back then if we've set this precedent. So I
think think about that when you're dating, as setting the standards,
setting the expectations, and anything that you take on you're
probably gonna own. And if you're not gonna want to
own that forever, that means you're gonna have to walk
it back later. So just heighten your awareness to some
(30:28):
of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I needed to hear that.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I really did ask someone who is not only a
caretaker but often also very strongly independent, Yes, I really
like to take care of stuff on my own and
take care of other people. So allowing things to happen
is really hard for me. So thank you for speaking
words into my mind.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Also, I'm not the only one that needed to hear
the whole, So I think it's becoming more common, especially
as the marriage age changes, yes, and people spend more
time alone before they get married. They're stuck in who
they are in their ways, and you have to adjust
to having a person in your life. So I think
a lot of people needed to hear that. There's another
part of this book. We're going background now. I had
(31:08):
to go off that little tangent because yeah, it was great,
but we were talking about the mental load, the cycle.
There's also a part of this that people, gosh do
not like to talk about, but it's so important because
part of our relationship is not just having an emotional connection,
it's intimacy.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, and when intimacy.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Is lost, that's a huge part that's missing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And you discuss how this cycle mental load can then
affect the intimacy in the relationship. Will you explain that
a little bit, because it's just not something people are
great at talking about or ever want to bring up,
so maybe hearing it from you will give them some
reassurance that it's okay.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
Yes, so it's layered, but I'll hit a couple points.
So the mental load takes up space in our brains.
I call it cognitive real estate. Takes up cognitive real estate.
And so what that means is that at space and
energy for other things like peace, presence, patients, regulating our emotions,
(32:06):
and getting in the mood for sex, especially for women,
because for a woman to be turned on, her brain
really needs to be turned off. And so if we
are swirling around with all of these things, it's going
to be hard to even think about sex. It's going
to be hard to get in the mood for sex.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
And so that's one piece.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
The other piece is that if the mental loade isn't
handled in a relationship in a way that feels good
in the partnership. So you know, she's overwhelmed, she's trying
to talk about it, he's like, you make things harder
than you need to, or gets defensive.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
She's going to feel invisible.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Disconnected, unappreciated. All these things in the relationship, which is
not conducive to a healthy sex life.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Being intimate is vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
You have to feel safe in your relationship to get
to that place, especially for women men it looks a
little bit different. But and so if the relationship doesn't
feel safe, it's going to affect this part of the relationship.
And I often say sex really starts outside of the bedroom,
and so we need to expand how we think of it.
(33:16):
For the longest time, I would beg my husband to
take me out on dates, especially after kids, and I'd.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Be like, he was into it, but he just didn't.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Prioritize it because he feels connected when we just exist
side by side. I was like, this doesn't I barely
see you.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
He's like, we're together all day And I was.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Like, I'm not talk to you.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's like the foreplay, right, You're like, this is there's
nothing here?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
So how am I supposed to be excited? Yes, exactly,
but like dates were my foreplay.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Yeah, And finally when I explained that he's like done,
was like, no convincing.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It that point.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
But we have to we have to understand and expand
how we think about getting in the mood for sex,
because it's not just what's going on in the bedroom.
I think another piece and I talk about this in
the book is that everybody has two core desires and
relationships to feel loved and to feel safe and secure,
(34:12):
and the way we want this expressed looks different. So
for women, a lot of times it's like being pursued,
being appreciated, having a partner who's like predictably reliant in
all the best ways. For men, one of the pathways
to feeling loved and secure is through sex. And so again,
like the game's kind of rigged. We're like, okay, we
(34:34):
want you to be emotionally tuned and present, and they're like, well,
I feel vulnerable until we've our intimate life's going well.
And so I think it's just helpful to understand these
things and these differences so we can maximize relationship outcomes.
If I understand my partner's going to feel like my husband,
he travels all the time. When he comes home from
(34:56):
a trip, he needs sex to feel like not awkward, right,
it's like how he feels safe.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
He'll be like, I'm so vulnerable, and.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
I'm like and then we'll be it's like this is
probably too much information, but he's not gonna listen. But
we'll be in bed and he'll be like ready to
like whatever, have sex, and I'll I'll be like, oh,
can we talk about something, And so I'll start a
real deep conversation and he's like, why do you do
that at the worst times.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And I've actually talked about this before, and I've heard
women be like I do that all the time.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
And part of it's because we're wanting we're entering into
something vulnerable and we need to feel that safety of connection,
that security of connection, whereas our partners are like, well,
the sex is how I get there, So can we
stop the talking?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And so I think it's just important for us to.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Understand these differences in order to work through some of
the stuff, not to personalize it, but to have a
better relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, to your point, if the game is rigged, then
we have to rig it back. Yes, we have to
start using different tools. Got to know, yes, to fix it. Yes,
thank you for talking about that, because I know it's
I'm sure.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
I just know there's people listening, like I have.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Definitely done that before for sure.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
And Doctrine Morgan, I always in these podcasts or the
interviews with a piece of advice or motivation or anything
on a topic that maybe we didn't get to, or
something you just really want to make sure people know,
or there's something that comes to mind for you that
you want to share.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
I'm really bad at this question, but I'll just say
the first thing that came to mind was around needs,
because I feel we talk a lot about how women
have a hard time expressing their needs, but I think
men do actually too, because they're supposed.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
To be needless.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
So a lot of times in our relationships, we have
a lot of needs that never get spoken or we
have a hard time defining, and so I have a
shortcut for identifying what we need, and so I'll offer that.
And that's that you think about what you complain about
the most. I feel like our complaints our windows to
our unmet needs.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
You probably don't experience this, but a lot of married
women do, which is that they will mutter under their
breath around the house sometimes when they're at their limit.
And so I encourage you to.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Examine the mutterings and what is the common thread, because
it will reveal something that you need.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And men too, I think.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
A lot of times they'll get maybe gruff or tense,
but not know why. So can you take a minute
and think about what is it that you're not getting
in that moment that's bugging you. And then the second
piece is when we express needs in our relationships, a
lot of times we do them as complaints instead of
(37:31):
owning the need, and we often leave out a clear deliverable,
so we'll say, like this vague can't you just help
me more? Or can't you be more romantic? Or these
are sort of vague requests. So encourage people as you
define what you need, to think about how you can
express it in a way that has like a clear
desired outcome so that you can maximize your chances of
(37:53):
getting the need met.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And a lot of what you're saying I totally relate
to in some of my relationships that I've had because
it is it's it's an easy back to the cycle thing.
It's easy to get in this rotation of constantly you
feel like you communicating your needs. I have this conversation
with my girlfriends a lot. I'm like, did you actually
communicate that or.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Do you think you communicated that?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Because those are two different things, and if you think
you left subtle hints, I was like, the best thing
you will ever do in your life is understand that
you have to spell it out. You have to you
you cannot think it doesn't just mean meant it means
in anything. You have to believe that someone does not
understand you unless you say it point blank.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
This is what I want, in need.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (38:35):
Yes, and that's what you're That's what I'm saying. It's
so it's if you're not clearly, you're really confusing. I
asked for romance, like more romance for four years, and
then I would get flowers the next week, and actually
that's not how I view romance. So I'd be like, oh,
thanks for the flowers, and.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Then you'd be offended, and then that would be the
end of.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
It because he didn't really understand what that meant, and
he could have asked more directly. There's shared responsibility, but
absolutely I did not communicate it. So yeah, getting clear, Yeah,
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
We thank you for being here, Thank you for sharing
all your expertise and wisdom on all the topics. You're wonderful,
and be sure to check out her book you want
to give it a little plug.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Yeah, I better share how couples can tackle themntal load
for more fun, less resentment and great sex wherever you
buy books, yeah, Audible, all the things.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Thank you so much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
One of my softball friends from way back in the day.
She is known as Kelsey Hunter today, but as I
knew her, it was Kelsey Stewart. She's a badass on
the softball field and plays for the Athletes Unlimited Softball
League now, but she's an Olympian, has played on Team
USA and the University of Florida. So just an insane
athlete all around, but also a great person.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Kelsey, thanks for joining.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Me, of course, thanks for having me. I love following
your life all on social media.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
It's been It feels very weird for me now to
see both of us in this stage of our lives.
And I joked, it's funny we're connecting back on zoom,
But once upon a time we were sitting on a
bus together and making all kinds of racket headed to
softball tournaments every weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Crazy, No, like actually crazy when you sit back and
think about it.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And now not only are you just an athlete, but
you're also a mom and doing just all.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Kinds of amazing things.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So I do want them to hear your story and
your words. So give us your kind of life as
not only just a mom, but a softball player, the
whole thing.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah. So I started playing softball probably when I was
about eight years old. And really what happened was there
was like a tenant under team and they needed an
extra player. My parents were like, she has nothing else
to do this, so sure, let's go do it. So
grew up in Arc City, Kansas or Arkansas City, Kansas.
My senior year, moved to Mace. Played travel ball forever.
(40:59):
Like when I was thirteen, I started playing eighteen gold,
which is insane.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And that was actually where Kelsey and I became really
good friends. We both played on the same travel ball
team together and we both went up to play on
this eighteen gold team together.
Speaker 8 (41:11):
We're both young, very young, crazy.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
And then I committed to Florida the summer of my
freshman year, going into high school freaking again crazy. I
got recruited. Actually I was in a tournament in New York.
Then I had trip and fell. I bunted trip and
fell and I was still safe at first, so they
coach Roll was like, yeah, she's good. So how that happened?
(41:34):
And then went to Florida, won two national championships, had
the time of my freaking life. I started playing ten
USA the summer after my freshman year of college and
then had been on too USA all the way to
the Olympics. Obviously COVID happened, so it got postponed a year.
Then I've also been playing pro and now there's this
(41:55):
new pro league called Athletes Unlimited. Super excited to be
a pioneer if that is. We have two kids. Husband. Honestly, like,
I have no complaints in life, and like, all glory.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
To God for all that you have always been on
the track of athletes since I've known you. That was
always your path and you really never wavered in that.
Why do you think that was such a path And
how did you know it so early?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Honestly, Like, I don't really know. Like I was just
good at sports, Like it was just something that like
it came easy to me. It's something that I enjoyed.
It wasn't like a headache to get me to go
do extra things.
Speaker 8 (42:36):
So it was just, hey, like, you're good at this.
So I just stayed on that path.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
And then obviously with the help of my parents, like
not allowing me to be distracted from outside things, and
really then it was just like, wow, I really love
doing this, and so I just kept going.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And after you had done Team USA at one point
where you're like nothing can top this.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
What am I gonna do next? Yeah, especially whenever at
first happened, like whenever I was on the first couple teams,
we weren't in the Olympics. So I'm like, no, like
I have reached like the top. I've won a national championship,
I've played on Team USA, Like what is next? I
didn't even know there was a pro league it. Like again,
it's like, what is next? What do I do after?
Speaker 7 (43:16):
This?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Definitely happens, still happens, but it's fun.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
So far for you?
Speaker 1 (43:22):
What is your Mount rushmore? Of your biggest moments in
your life so far?
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Obviously having kids, getting married, hitting the walk off for Japan,
and then I would say going to the Olympics and
then winning.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
National championship, so many good things, like truly you have
the Mount rushmore?
Speaker 4 (43:42):
No, like actually, like when I seriously when I think back,
I'm like, I have been so blessed, Like God did
not skip out whatsoever whenever I was going through my journey,
like I feel like I've hit every pinnacle you can hit,
been super blessed to be able to have kids, to
be able to raise my kids, able to all of
these things. I'm like, no, like I am living a
(44:03):
great life.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
We see on social media kind of the juxtaposition between
men's athletics women's athletics.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
What was it like for you in this entire journey.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Was there moments where you're like, yeah, this is true
in moments where it wasn't, or give me the breakdown
of that from your experience.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Oh yeah, it's all freaking true. Like it is a
struggle being a woman in sports. I feel like there's
just like this weird thing whereas women were supposed to
be so grateful. Oh my god, they gave us the opportunity. Wow,
we should be grateful, but like, why can we not
demand more at the same time, Like there was times
like on TMUSA, especially like I was not being paid
(44:43):
to play softball, Like it was just like a oh, yeah,
I want to do it. I want to play for
my country, let's do it. There's times that I was
like grinding to pay rent because I was trying to
be a softball player trying to be professional and like
in that sport, like you don't make a lot of money,
Like I think minimum is like eight thousand dollars, and
it's like, yeah, like how are you supposed to live?
(45:03):
And even with this, athletes unlimited, Like it's a great thing,
and I think it's going to be a great thing.
But the gap between who are getting paid the most
and who's getting paid the least, that's what we're like,
what I'm trying to push forward is just want to
merge that gap between women's sports. But then like we
would hope one day, like I hope when if I
have a little girl that she's not struggling to pay
rent to play pro sport, like she can play a
(45:25):
pro sport, do what she loves, but also enjoy life.
And I feel like there's few it's like women's soccer,
women's basketball, and then after that it's like falls off,
and so we have to like I feel like we,
especially in softable, we kind of have to find a
way to merge that gap. But merge a gap between
men and women would be unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That is a crazy experience to think this is the
coolest moment of my life. I'm on Team USA, I'm
playing in the Olympics. But also I can't pay my rent.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
No, it's like actually crazy, Like I don't think that
people like really have the concept of what happens. I've
played on Teamiorsay for nine years and so in that time,
I would say from USA, I was paid twenty thousand
dollars snacks too.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
But now you were working other jobs while you were
full time trying to be an athlete.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yeah, still am.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
So you have a full time job now and you're
playing in this professional league.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Yeah, I don't have a choice, like we like, literally,
you don't have a choice in life. It'd be so
nice to just be able to focus, like train and
do all those things, be a mom, and then go
play softball. But I cannot afford that whatsoever, even like
with my husband.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
So yeah, so how do you do it?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (46:36):
You have to be in this shape all the time
to play. You are a mom, you have to have
a job, you're a wife, Like, how are you balancing
all of these things and still keeping your sanity at
the same time.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
No, I tell people all of the time, like it
takes a village. So my mom, my, dad, my brother,
my grandma, my husband, every single person you can think of.
It's all hands on. Like everyone. It's like we have schedules.
It's oh, my mom works today, Okay, she's out the picture.
My sister doesn't work today, Okay, she has the kids.
My husband doesn't work today, Okay he has the kids.
And something that I've learned, like super early on. I
(47:11):
have two kids. They are eleven months and two years old.
So something that I learned very early on is I
will not allow my myself to be put in spaces
that my family's not allowed. That kind of like nix
a lot of things. It's oh, my kids can't come,
Oh I can't come, Like you have to provide this space.
Like I'm a working mom, but I will also be
(47:32):
a present mom. You want me to do a thing, Okay,
can you find my kids out with me? Because like
that's the only way this works. And it's been definitely hard,
and I think just talking to my friends, they're like,
you make it look really easy. I probably should be
more transparent about how freaking hard it is and just
having a kid, losing your body like I had two
c sections, so they cut through layers of my body
(47:54):
and then I played four months later, like I was
tripping a little bit. When I look back, I'm like crazy.
But it takes the village for sure. Even when I'm
on the road with the with the girls, they're helping
me like, oh yeah, we'll take trades, and then he
comes to back with.
Speaker 8 (48:10):
Ten stuffed animals, I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 4 (48:13):
So it literally takes everyone.
Speaker 5 (48:15):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I love that you say that they created this space
for you and that's why you've been able to continue
doing it. Detail that experience for me a little bit
because I haven't been pregnant before and know so many
women have though, but to gosh, to have two children
and then ask to be this professional athlete that can
(48:37):
do these things. How was that experience for you? Were
you in the safe space to be able to do that?
Were there moments for here like there's no way that
I continue this path?
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah? There? So athletes unlimited like their whole goal as
so they have basketball, volleyball, and softball. So the whole
thing was like you should be able to have a family,
start that family, and then be able to continue to
play softball. So I took that to heart. I got pregnant,
but then I was the first person to ever get
pregnant in this system.
Speaker 8 (49:08):
So they're like, okay, cool, we'll see you next year.
And I'm like, no, I was expecting this money from you. Respectfully,
I was expecting to have this income.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
I was having a baby, like right in the middle
of season, so I couldn't like fly out there, I
couldn't do all these things. So it's been really cool
that I've been someone who's helped them through this process
of how we can make it better and do all
these things. Definitely lots of moments where I'm like is
this worth it, especially in those like newborn stages. My
child's screaming, I'm up like all night, and then I'm
(49:39):
like okay, Like I gotta go work out. There's nothing
in me that wants to work out, like I'd rather
just sleep. But again, athletes in Learmon has been truly great.
They provided nanny for me. They pay child support or
child support, child nanny whatever that's called childcare. There you
go childcare for them. They like, get an extra room,
(50:00):
whatever I need. They're like super great about it. This
year will be the first year that we're gonna be
like traveling everywhere, so I'm interested to see how this
is gonna go. It's probably gonna be working through it again,
but like, I think it's good because it's not just
me anymore. There's another girl just had a baby, So
I'm like really excited but training and getting this is
the first year that I've actually had a year to
(50:23):
train and get back into shape, so I'm super excited
to see where I am this year. I'm like pumped.
I'm like, Wow, this is the first time I've hit
and worked out in February. Let's freaking go.
Speaker 5 (50:32):
Do you feel like maybe having babies was your superpower
and now you're gonna even be a better athlete?
Speaker 4 (50:38):
I claim it in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 5 (50:40):
Right there, I'm gonna believe it for you. I'm also
gonna for you.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
I love your perspective of just sharing the realness of
this experience because it is. And I never want to
make somebody, especially a woman's athlete, talk just about being
the fact that she's a woman and an athlete. But
there's just such a drastic comparison of what happens for
you versus what's happening for a man, and the toll
this is taking on your body but you love.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
The sport so much that you still choose to keep
doing it.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Talk to me about that passion for softball, because it
has to be a drive behind so much of this.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Yeah, you talk about like women and you don't want
that to be it, but like it does take a toll.
Even now we got tiered this year of there's Tier
five to Tier one whatever that is. And I've been
I've had a baby or been pregnant the past two years.
So like, as much as you don't want that to
affect where you're like placed and what happens, like, it
does affect and I can't be mad about that, but
(51:38):
like at the same time, I'm like, how unfair is that?
But everyone always tells me, like, you'll know when it's
time to retire, like you like everything will just you'll know.
And I haven't had that feeling yet. It's been one
of those things where I'm like, oh, softball's on. I
have five games going still and it's oh, that's something new,
(51:59):
let me go that. And I'm out trying something new
to my swing or like playing catch with my husband,
taking grand balls, like those are things that like still
bring me so much joy, and it's almost like too,
like a little it's cool for my kids to see,
Like I think that there's a stereotype that kids always
watch the dad be a professional and they watch them
work and do all of these things.
Speaker 8 (52:19):
So it's really cool that my husband.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Is one so supportive, and two that my two boys
get to watch me in this professional environment and how
I work and how I go about business. But then
on the flip side of that, get to make them
ally and women's sports, so maybe one day if they're
making millions of dollars, it's like, yeah, like I'll support
women's sports. That's what my mom did. I watch they
work harder than we do kind of thing. So it's
(52:43):
been really cool, Like I love that side of it.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I was just gonna say, I I have to imagine
your kids are watching you and they're already knowing the
superhero that you are because you're their mom, but then
on top of it, to watch you go out and
crush it's on a field.
Speaker 5 (52:56):
They're like, I don't know a life any different than this.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
This is what it is. It's like crazy because like
I would go in and I could thirty minutes hitting
and be easy. Now Trace wants to go with me
and it takes maybe an hour because he has to
hit off the tea two. I love it. I wouldn't
change it for anything, but like that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
So how do you balance this lifestyle and working and
being successful in your career and et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. You have so many things? How are you
balancing it? I know you say it takes a village,
but like, when you look at your life and day
to day, how do you make decisions? How are you
trying to decide what's best for you and your family
and your career.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
I think like knowing what's a priority and to me,
like my boys and my husband are always going to
reign supreme. That's my number one focus every single day,
and then I'd go from there. So it's like, oh okay,
like maybe today I can cram in all of my work.
Like I have really great I work for a really
(53:55):
great company, Target Sports, and they're like super great about
me playing professional, me being a mom, me working and
doing all these things. So like I work from home,
which is like the best thing ever, and they're so
supportive and I have some great people in my corner
with Jeremie Cappo and Kenny Lanyard and all these people
that really make it where it's like can you do that?
(54:16):
Is it okay? Do you have time for this kind
of thing? And it's listen, you are trusting me to
do my job, so like I'm going to make sure
I do that job. Starts with my kids, and then
it's like, hey, I got to feed my family, and
then it's what time.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
I have left is like for softball, which.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
My husband is like a workout freak, and so it's
like easy for me to want to go work out
because I'm like, he cannot look better than me. That's
not how this works. And then you fit it in
from there and I feel like those pieces of it,
my family can join in with me and do all
those things.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, and you're creating not just this environment for what
you mentioned as their mom playing, but you're also creating
a very healthy lifestyle for them of this work life
balance one and two to always be working out. You
just bring them along for the right and heck, they're
gonna be squatting before more before you know it.
Speaker 4 (55:04):
Yeah, like they every time I go to GEMI Soun's
always I go work out and I'll like I have
his bag and I'm like, this is fantastic, but he
just goes to the swimming pool. But whatever, we'll talk
about that later date. He's only too.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
What do you hope to see as you continue and
play in this professional field? What do you hope to
see for women's sports change in the coming years, coming decades?
Speaker 4 (55:25):
Yeah, I like, obviously the number one thing would be,
like women are playing for millions of dollars. That would
be the goal. It's just, oh, like I can stay
on this track of sports, and sure there's commentating there's
women in sports that aren't playing sports, but I would
love for that to be a thing that's, Oh, if
I work hard enough, like I can play, I can
(55:45):
support my family while doing something I love. I can
travel the world while doing something I love. So that
would be the number one goal. But then I think
to even expand on that, would there be like there's
programs in place for women that get pregnant, of here's
a trainer that works, like they specialize in women that
are pregnant, so you like don't get out of shape,
(56:05):
and doctors that help you through these things because there
are like things that happen in pregnancy that are out
of your control and labor that happens, all these things
out of your control. But I it would be deeper,
the support system would be deeper in that, and it
would go across the board of all women's sports. But
that that's like.
Speaker 8 (56:22):
A whole different topic because then it's like.
Speaker 4 (56:25):
Now we like are fighting for parental leave or whenever
we have kids in like normal life. So this is
just like a small part of it. But I do
think that if we can expand that in the sports world,
it trickles down like women, like these women that are
always on TV and people are always looking up to
they're demanding this, and then it's like the next one
(56:47):
they're demanding it, and then frick, I'm I am too,
Like I'm worthy of that, And so I think there's
like the support gets deeper, and it's more it's not
just women supporting women. We have males, and we have dad,
and we have professional athletes. We have all of those things.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
So I would obviously say the million dollars and then.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
After that the support how deep it goes.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
When you go out and you do these things like
Team USA and you're in the Olympics, what was the
most like drastic differences you were seeing competing as a
woman versus competing as a man.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, like things like just flying commercial and they like,
this is the story I tell everyone because this was
the first time that it like hit me because as
a woman in sports, it's like just something that you
go with the flow. You do what you're told. You
get on the commercial flight, it's at six am, you
play at seven whatever. That looks like like we just
(57:42):
did it. But my husband was my childcare person when
I had my first son, and we get on a flight.
His flight gets delayed for we were on two summer flights.
It like they messed up. But anyways, were on two
supper flights. So I get on the first one. We're
in North Carolina. We drive from the airport, it's two
and a half hours. My husband fights, gets delayed, like
(58:03):
three or four hours. He lands, and then they get
in traffic, so the instead of a two hour turns
until five or six hour bus ride. And he's really confused,
and I'm like about what he's like, First off, I'm delayed.
What Second, where's the police escort? Said? I'm sorry what
he's like. I would never get on a bus without
(58:24):
a police escort, like, I'm confused, and you guys don't
have a chartered flight. I'm what this is. I'm like, no,
this is women's sports, Like, this is what we deal
with all the time.
Speaker 8 (58:35):
Yeah, and so I just put everything into perspective.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
And then he's like over here like telling his friends
like this is bull crap, that what they.
Speaker 8 (58:41):
Have to deal with, and so I think, like they
don't understand.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
Because they don't go through it.
Speaker 8 (58:46):
And so that's probably one of my favorite stories.
Speaker 4 (58:49):
But that is probably like Night and Day, like, I
only got a try to fight when we made it
to the biggest thing in college. Meanwhile, he they could
drive two hours to Gamesville and they're chartering for thirty
minutes and what do you mean he got all this money. Nope,
didn't happen.
Speaker 8 (59:08):
It's just all like the differences are seriously, Night and Day.
Speaker 5 (59:12):
Was your husband a college athlete too?
Speaker 4 (59:14):
Oh yeah? Sorry? He played football Florida State?
Speaker 5 (59:17):
Okay, and then he stopped after college.
Speaker 4 (59:20):
Yeah he broke his neck. Yeah, so he actually played
like in the Canadian Football League CFL and all those things.
But I broke his neck.
Speaker 5 (59:28):
Wow, I'm very glad he's still here in you got
a meat and that whole thing happened life. But so
he knows he's seeing these differences and he experienced them
in real time.
Speaker 4 (59:39):
Yeah, and he was like he was I would say too,
Like he won a national championship at Florida State, so
like he was like the top one percent in college football,
So like he knows what it's like to be spoiled
and not want Like all he has to worry about
is playing football, and so to come out and then
he's like, wait, how much do you get paid? And
he's like asking me like is it worth it? And
I'm like, I have to stay in this to help
(01:00:01):
grow this game. I want the next generation to benefit
from what we're doing. And he's, I guess it's like
one of those things. He's you could literally go work
a couple of camps and make what you're making playing.
Is that worth it kind of thing?
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
It's helpful too to have him have that experience too,
because then it makes him an advocate for you too
as well and to his friends who are I imagine
we're also either at once college athletes could be professional
now yes, and at least it's slowly growing as there
are advocates for it, and I do think it's truly
(01:00:35):
unfortunate that we're still here in twenty twenty five and
this is still the case.
Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
No, it's so unfortunate. And the crazy parties we have
made leaps and balans, but like we're still here, and
I tell everyone, like something will happen. I'm like, same shit,
different yere, and like it's sad that I feel that way,
Like I want to be like, no, this is so good,
this is better, but like I have an expectation as
a professional athlete, as a mom, and like I won't
(01:01:01):
stop till that's met.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
When somebody like Caitlyn Clark comes into the picture, say
that again, When someone like Caitlin Clark comes into the
picture and she's all over social media, everybody's knowing her name,
but she's becoming this household name.
Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
Does that feel helpful in that respect? Does it?
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
What does it do for you guys as a whole
with women's sports when something like that comes into.
Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Play, Yeah, I definitely think all it does is help.
All it does is help is you get eyes on
women's sports that can only help well, and it only
trickles down to everything. I do think that you see
more of that gap and pay And again, I don't
know Kaitlyn Clark. She could be taking a cut to
make sure everyone else is getting money. I don't know
(01:01:50):
what that looks like for her, but that would be
the only negative side is that gap. But she deserves
every single penny that she's getting making all the I
think she's a great advocate for women's sports. I think
she does it the right way. I think she plays
so gritty and so like in your face, and that's
been such like a thing that's been so like.
Speaker 8 (01:02:12):
You can't play like that, and it's like why, Like
this is fun to freaking watch and she's gonna shoot
it from half court and let you know, turn around
like I love it, and someone like her who's doing
it the right way and drawing all of those eyes
like amazing. We need to do better on softball, like
getting her to a game so more people will watch.
But I think that only does great things for women's sports.
Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I know you mentioned that that grittiness of her, and
of course she gets ruined online for saying mean things,
for acting up, for lack of a better term, not
acting like a woman.
Speaker 5 (01:02:47):
But I think there is such a misconception about even
so when we were playing, we were mean.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
We got competitive because we were competitive, we wanted to win.
Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
What experiences have you had.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Over the course of time where somebody, you're a woman,
don't do it that way or do it this way
because this looks better.
Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Yeah, I think that happens a lot. When I was
in college, we actually were not allowed to have social
media for awful years, and it probably saved us a lot,
at least me personally, because I'm like that fiery person
all fireback, I do not care. So I think like
you get those people I would love myself in that
I don't really care what you have to say. You're
(01:03:28):
gonna keep turning on the TV to watch me, I
bet money, because you're gonna see if I want to
do it again next week. And so I think, like,
you have those athletes that are so like this is
how I play, like you either accept it or move on.
And so now, but now it's getting to the point
where women's sports is all over. It's on ESPN and
it's on ABC. It's like where it's constantly being televised
(01:03:49):
and so like you don't have a choice but to watch.
And so I think to mold yourself into something that
you can't be comfortable and you can't play your best
because you're trying to mold into something that society tells
you to be will never work. And so I think
to have that confidence and be who you are at
all times and then just know there's people behind you regardless.
(01:04:11):
Is that If that's one, because my one, then guess
what I have you now? So now that there's two,
it's me Morgan. Now you got two people behind you.
So I think that is something that it's hard for
younger athletes because I we like, social media was big
when we were growing up, but it wasn't like it
is today. And so I don't care to tap into
social media see what people are saying on me because
guess what, I don't know you dude, Your Twitter fingers
(01:04:33):
are going crazy and yet you've never said hi to me,
so like your.
Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
And also probably never picked up a softball in his life.
Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
And so I'm like, even I'll get on social media,
like after a big softball game, like a Florida game,
and people are talking crap, and I'm like, I dare
you to go just run sprint run a six am
with them I'm not even play you play softball, just
run a six am with them and see what happens.
I think, like it is harder because there's so much
validation in social media for so many people. But I
(01:05:01):
have a kid and husband. So the other one day
I think I was like, oh, for three with two strikeouts,
and my kid was like, good job, mommy, and I'm like, no,
feel but it's fine. So it's like perspective for me,
like I do not care what other people think.
Speaker 5 (01:05:14):
It definitely is.
Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
It definitely gives you this perspective because they know you
did the best job you could do in that moment,
and you're like, really that, but they did and they
give you that perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Yeah, it's insane. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Speaking of young athletes, I always like to end on
a motivational thing, but I think something that would be
really good to hear is any athletes that are coming
up that are currently in it, whatever it may be,
and maybe you choose to go in the direction of women,
just all athletes however you want to do this, but
what is something you would want young athletes to know
today if you were to give them a piece of advice,
(01:05:49):
if they're on a similar journey to yours.
Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Yeah, I would. The main thing I would probably say
is you are enough. You have all the tools. People
are constantly going to have opinions, people are constantly going
to talk about you. And I tell everyone, if someone's
not talking about you, then like you're doing something wrong.
The more people talking about you, like, like you said,
look at Kaitlin Clark, like she is one of the
best athletes in college basketball and someone is constantly talking
(01:06:16):
about her. So to me, she's doing something right. And
so I think you are enough. Stay on your path,
stay with what you know, keep your circle with people
that are on the same route as you, and not
people that are gonna be jealous or drag you down
because they're not worth it whatsoever. You're enough, Keep your
circle small, and keep the main thing the main thing
(01:06:38):
at the end of the day. And if you need
someone to talk to you, you need someone to have
your back, I'm here. I'm available on Instagram, on Twitter,
whatever you need, I'm here and I'll support you one
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I also want to do a kind of tailored piece
of advice here to what is something that people just
the normal person that isn't even in the sports world,
someone like me. I think I know some of the
answer because I follow you on social media and I
support you. But what are some things we can do
to support women's sports more to hopefully one day be
(01:07:08):
where you're wanting.
Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
It to be.
Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I think like the main thing is to show up.
I think it's easy to sit back and watch it
on the TV and do all these things, but like,
the more people that show up, the bigger it becomes.
So I think you show up for those different women's sports,
and you on social media, you can repost, and like,
the more people that you're the more times you're reposting
(01:07:32):
and sharing, the more people it's getting to. But my
main thing really is to show up and support people
and shut those people down that have the nerve to
say women aren't worthy or they can't do something. Shut
it down and just post a video of some women
doing something so badass that you can't help it. But
showing up is probably number one.
Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
That was one of my favorite trends over the past
year where it was all these women who are like
this man asked me what I did or try to
demand explain something to me, and then they just come
back with the whole gamut of things that they've done.
Speaker 4 (01:08:05):
Like man's plaining is like the worst, Like stop doing that?
Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Yes exactly, Kelsey, Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I'm so proud of you and your success and your
drive and your passion for what you've always done.
Speaker 5 (01:08:17):
You've always been this way.
Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
You are the same person that I sat on the
back of a very many bus with where we cause
a whole lot of trouble, and that's really cool. Given
everything that you've done and experience in your life. To
be the same person is admirable. And congratulations on being
just a badass, not only athlete, but also mother too.
Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
Thanks. You're a pretty badass too, my love following your journey.
I'm super proud of you too, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Oh thanks a fellow Morgan and my old softball teammate.
This was such a fun episode and I hope you
all took some things away from it that may help
in your lives. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast
and leave a five star review if you're enjoying it.
You can also follow the podcast Instagram at take this personally.
As always, I'm I'm so happy that you're here, Love you,
talk to you next week.
Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Bye,
With Morgan Feldsman for attacking family relationships, marriages in motherhood.
This week I have on first a fellow Morgan, doctor
Morgan Cutlep. She's the author of the book A Better Share,
and in it she helps couples navigate the mental load
in their relationships and the toll that it takes. And
then my friend, Olympian and old softball teammate Kelsey Hunter
(00:38):
joins to share how she competes at a professional softball
level while juggling a job and motherhood and everything else,
plus the ways we can do better in the area
of women's sports. I'm joined right now by a fellow Morgan,
but a doctor Morgan cutlet She is known for balancing motherhood,
(01:01):
being an author, and helping others understand relationships better.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you for joining me, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm so excited to talk with you because just looking
at all of your content, you are really helping a
lot of people. And it's funny that relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Are a part of everybody's life, but man, do we
not understand what.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We do not?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I love getting relationship experts on here because we
can all use a little bit more help. And I'm
going to come at this from so many different angles.
We got a lot to discuss here. But to start this,
I want you to share your story and how you
got into this where you are now and releasing the
book that you have a better share like what inspired this?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Give me this Backmtory.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, so my story goes very far back.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Give it to So.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
My dad went back to school for his doctorate in
psychology when I was in grade school, and he used
to take me to class with him, so I attended
some of his doctoral I don't think they'll let you
do this now, but for some reason, I was probably
like six or seven. I would pack a fake briefcase
in candy and paper and I would just hang with him,
(02:14):
and it was quite a long drive, and we'd play
this game where he would give.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Me almost like a fake case of a.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Family or a kid or a couple, and he would say,
how would you help them?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What do you think is going on? What interventions would
you do?
Speaker 6 (02:28):
And it was just I don't know, I feel like
he needed someone to work with in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So he's like, I'll just prepare you for this now.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
But it just became one of my most favorite and
treasured memories with my dad, and so I think.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That started my trajectory.
Speaker 6 (02:43):
He went on to have a practice and then start
creating relationship education courses before everyone was doing that, and
I started traveling with him to conferences and speaking engagements,
and eventually, as I grew up, I decided to just
pursue my own education and follow in his foot steps.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And so, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
I think it was maybe when I was a senior
in high school or freshman in college, I said, Dad, someday,
I'm going to do something to help women. And I
don't know what that looks like because I don't know
what's going on in my life yet, but I know
that's what I want to do. And so we worked
together for around fifteen years. And then man, when I
ended up having our daughters, were like fast forwarding in time.
(03:23):
Had our daughter Fie, and I just could not believe
how motherhood shook my world. I thought I got a
degree in human development and family science, like I should
know what I'm doing, and I had no clue, and
I was overwhelmed and I was lost. And I knew
at that moment, if I was experiencing this mothers everywhere
(03:46):
had to experience something similar, and so I knew that
at some point I come out of this sort of fog,
and at that point I wanted to figure out how
to help moms navigate that better.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
And so that was my first book. But like this second.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Piece of that experience is that you could not believe
how quickly resentment grew in our relationship after kids, and
primarily from me toward my husband. And we have a
great marriage, and we did then, but just I was like,
how can my life change so dramatically and yours has
(04:21):
pretty much stayed the same, And that took us years
to navigate two kids later, really to figure out a
better way to manage this time and the massive amount
of responsibilities. And so that really became the fuel or
the motivation for my second book, which is a better
share to help couples through. Just like modern family life
is relentless, we need more tools to navigate it better.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I think having all of the tools to navigate crazy
life is so helpful in so many different ways. Let's
start on that first path with motherhood and how it
shook you and changed you, and that inspired that first book.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
What was this moment.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Where you realized, like, holy crap, I am ill prepared
to be a mom, even though everybody always says you're
a woman.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So you have the natural instinct to be a mom.
You should figure it out. It'll be fine.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
I think that's what sets us up to be really shook,
is that we think it will be intuitive, and for
some people it is. For me, it was not, or
at least not in the ways I thought it would be.
So I think the moment I was shook was almost immediately.
I remember, actually, our daughter's eleven now, and I told
her this maybe the day before I left to come here,
(05:33):
and we were driving in the car and I was like,
I'll never forget bringing you home and sitting in the
rocker and I was nursing her and being like.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
Oh my gosh, this is forever.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
This is forever, and what a massive responsibility and undertaking.
And I'm not a real anxious person, but and I
know this is hormones and all the things, but the
amount of anxiety I felt after becoming a mom was crippling.
And it just remember and if I had to describe
(06:06):
the feeling after, like the scary feeling, and it's all
these beautiful pieces too, but just almost like a homesickness.
And I think it is because what you used to
feel comfortable in, what used to feel like home, has shifted,
because you have this massive new identity that's taking shape
and it happens literally overnight, and so yeah, I felt
(06:26):
it right away.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I love that you're recognizing and sharing that moment because
most of the time motherhood is shared in not just
social media but in our society as this beautiful thing
and you should want this and this is so important
for you to have, but to share a very real experience.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
For yeah, this is great.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I brought life into the world.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But also I'm freaking out and this is not what
anybody prepared me for.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Yes, and there's research that talks about the changes and
like for men and for women have kids, like what
affects the relationship, But for women what they find are like,
the two biggest sort of shifts that happen that are
really impactful are the feeling of an increase in responsibilities,
which is for sure, but then the other is loss
of freedom. And I think that's the piece that hit
(07:17):
me the hardest.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Was just I just was like, oh my.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
Gosh, I cannot go to the bathroom without bringing in
contraptions or it just the simplest things felt really difficult.
And I think that was just it just took an adjustment.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And that's what we don't talk about.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
All the adjustments that we need to make in our life,
in our marriage, in our schedules after kids, and are
the picture that are normal and everyone has to do it.
But I'm like, why is this existing in the dark.
We need to talk about this stuff because it's it
can be jarring.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So thank you for bringing the life on that and
writing a whole book about it.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
What was the name of that first one.
Speaker 6 (07:54):
It's called Love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I really like that And I did some research on
that one, not a parent myself, but it from what
I can tell on the reviews on that book, I
feel like it's a very great.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
One, especially for a first time moms.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yea, and just understanding that what you're experiencing is really normal.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
It's not all butterflies and rapmos.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
If there's anything I've learned in this life, everything is
not butterflies and ramos much for any of the time.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, And walking down.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
To your next book, how was that experience for you
when Okay, you have this moment of Okay, I'm losing
my freedom, I'm now a mom.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
This is forever.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But then also these struggles are happening with your husband
and you're trying to navigate all of it at the
same time.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
A little bit. So our situation was unique.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
So I'm from Ohio, but we were living in Virginia
when I got pregnant, right outside of DC.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And then my parents.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
If you're from the Midwest, you know when you get
close to retirement, you moved to Florida.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So that's the thing we retire.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
So my parents.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Moved to Florida and we were pregnant, and my husband's like,
why don't we just go move to be close to
your family and want the support and all the things.
And I worked with my dad at the time, so
we ended up buying home completely, ripping it down, and
rebuilding it from a distance. So I finished internship and
(09:25):
then we moved to Florida when I was nine months pregnant.
So two months after our daughter was born, my husband
was relocated to southern California. My goodness, Okay, it's like
very intense and so I ended up staying behind because
I just knew, like when you adjust to a new job,
(09:46):
it's just an ordeal. And I was like, I'm going
to stay here, I have my family, you go do
your thing, and when we find a house, I'll meet you.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And so from around two months to.
Speaker 6 (09:55):
Like eight or nine months or so, we did long distance.
So I navigated these early years or not early years,
early months of motherhood. But a lot happens in these
early months on my own. And I think so when
you talk about like the struggles in our marriage, like
I'm not sure how clute in my husband was, because
we got along and things were fine, but I was
(10:16):
struggling and I was building resentment quickly, and it really
had a lot to do with just I was the
only one in the know of what was going on
with our daughter.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I made all the adjustments because he wasn't around to.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
How I took care of her, and adjustments in my
own life and schedule, and we finally reconnected.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think that's when things got.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Tense because I was just regularly frustrated. I was like, oh, like,
you don't know what you're doing now with our daughter,
Like just move, I'll take care of it, which makes
things worse because then.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He didn't jump in as much.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
And so it took us a while until we got
to a place where we could really address some of
the stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Really, it took me getting pregnant.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
With our son where I was like, I don't think
he's ever going to be born because I will hold
on to him until I have this sort of reassurance
that things are going to be different this time around.
So we had to unpack some of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And when you start to approach that conversation with your husband,
because this also adds in another layer of what we've
been taught in our society for men to not talk
about their feelings, to not experience things in the same way.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That we are.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right, we're taught completely different things to the men's credit
in these scenarios. Yes, so what happens when you approach
your husband and you're like, Okay, we got to break
what's happening. We got to break this cycle. We need
to talk about some things.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Yeah, it didn't go well for a while. If I'm
being transparent, and I think a lot of times, if
I share a piece of content, or if people hear
an interview or something or even in my books, I
tell a lot of personal stories. Something I get time
and time again is it's that I'm relatable and it's
because I've lived through this stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So it it took us.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
A long time, and it really took me making some
changes too, and how I asserted myself, like men are
taught really did not talk about their emotions unless it's anger.
A lot of men it has part to do with
how they're wired, but also a lot of men feel
like emotions are like unnecessary, kind of it's like, why
(12:21):
are wasting.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Our time here, let's cut to the chase.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
So we've got that, but then women are really conditioned.
And then in motherhood it's necessity for a while to
take care of a kid, but to stuff what we
need down and to back burner it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And then growing up.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
We usually receive all these messages around what it means
to have needs, like we're needy, we're too sensitive, we're dramatic,
like too much. And so I had a battle some
of my own messaging and in our dialogue around what
it meant to have needs, what it meant to assert
myself in my relationship, And so that was like my work,
that's part of what I talk about my first book,
(12:55):
this individual piece, and then as I learned to assert them,
we had to work on the relationships because my husband
would say things like you're so different now, and it
wasn't like a compliment, like you're so different, And I
remember saying to him, I'm not different, I'm the same.
You're just getting all of me, whereas before I was
(13:18):
keeping it from you because I was worried you couldn't
handle it. So I can't go back to that or
else we're not going to be in a good place.
This is a conversation that moves the needle. If I
go back to that, we're not.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Going to be okay.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
But if you're finding my delivery like something you can't receive,
then let's work on how you can receive.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It and how I can deliver it differently.
Speaker 6 (13:38):
But also we got to move through this and that
took some time, but he made adjustments pretty quickly after that,
and it was a game changer in our relationship and
in how I experience a motherhood.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Really, I cannot believe how hard those conversations can sometimes be,
because right you're sitting there think in your head.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
We have to do this.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
We have to make this better for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So this is an easy thing. We have to have
this conversation. But when you talked about the resentment, there's
just so much for both of you that was holding there,
and resentment makes it really hard for people to truly
navigate because you're holding on to so many things. Yes,
and so I can imagine having those conversations like you mentioned,
and it took time to really pull back like an
(14:28):
onion and reveal the different layers and work through each one. Yes,
you had mentioned something in some of your content that
was like, and I'm maybe buttraying.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
This, so tell me about saying it wrong.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
But you said the ending.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Of your marriage is closer than you think, and it
all has to do with the cycle that you end.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Up being in.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes, tell me a little bit about that, because I
feel like this pertains to what you're talking about.
Speaker 7 (14:54):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
So, but it says the ending of your marriage starts
sooner than you think. And it's it's not my favorite
type of content to create, honestly, because it's like hitting
that pain point and sometimes it's hard to consume for people.
But also people need to see the cycle, so it's
a tricky thing. Online but it's basically when you know,
these sort of small things start to develop in your relationship,
(15:18):
like missed opportunities when a partner approaches you to talk
about something and then maybe it's shut down or met
with defensiveness or dismissiveness. And a lot of times I'm
going broad strokes here, but a lot of times it's
the woman bringing up the issue and the guy will
respond in one of these ways, and she has two choices,
which is to either get louder, and that usually means
(15:39):
that he gets pushed away even more he distances to
protect himself, or she stuffs it down. And then when
she stuffs it down, he feels good because he's like,
oh great, I have more peace in my life and
I don't have to deal with her emotion or whatever.
She's not upset with me, I think if things are good.
But what happens over time is she starts to disconnect,
she develops that resiment. Meant she starts to pull away,
(16:02):
and so things start to shift in big ways in
the relationship. Maybe their sex life goes out the window.
Perhaps the dynamic becomes more transactional, less relational.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
There's more tension in the relationship and.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
So it's a slow erosion of connection that's happening, and
it's almost like couples are missing it. A lot of
times it's but then you get to a place where
maybe the kids are grown and you're pretty deep into it,
and you look at each other and you're like, we
grew apart or I don't even know you anymore, And
(16:35):
it's because there's these slow erosions.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That we get stuck in the cycle can also.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Look pretty hostile, but a lot of times it's just
this slow sort of disconnecting that takes place for couples.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And when somebody recognizes that this is happening to this cycle.
Is there ever a point where it's too late you
can't fix it? Or is most of the time, as
long as you start to have open connect like communication
and start to discuss what's really happening.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Can you fix it.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
I'm a big believer in marriages that can really come
back from pretty dark places, and I've worked with couples
through even things like infidelity and major betrayals, So I
do think that you can be pretty far gone and
still find your way back. But it really requires a
commitment to the relationship. Because commitment is that is this
(17:26):
sort of like piece that keeps you in it when
it's terrible. And so if that's not there and both
partners aren't like, okay, last ditch effort here, let's give.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
It a go.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
If you can't get both people that place, it can
be hard to come back from this.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
But yeah, I think you can be pretty far gone
and still come back. And I think part of it
is you've got to identify and disrupt this cycle and
it's just like this unfortunate thing. But also I believe
it's the beautiful part of relationships, which is that they
will stretch us and challenge us to grow. But like,
the unfortunate part is that a lot of times, to
(18:01):
break this cycle, somebody has to be humble. Somebody has
to be like, Okay, I surrender like we are not
going anywhere good being like this, like we have to
figure something out and get to that place.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you feel like too? It's both partners. You mentioned
the commitment of them wanting.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
To do it, so it really feels like both.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Partners have to be willing to do that. If there is.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
One partner that's not even willing or open to that conversation,
is that where the hard part really lies and deciding
is this not going to work because of that?
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Yeah, I think a lot of times one partner is
more willing to work on it and the other person
is digging their heels in, and it just becomes at
that point.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Very tricky to navigate. So you can get a professional.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Involved and see, but then there are partners who won't
even do that. And so I think where a lot
of marriages end up when they're in this cycle they
reach this point is usually when the one person is
just I'm out of resources here and you're not budging
and I was willing to work on it, but if
you're not gonna work with.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Me, there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
So it becomes this I'm out of options type of decision,
which is really heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And I think in my second book, and.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
Not all people will be able to work through these
things because there will be partners that just dig their
heels in. But in my second book, I give a
ton of tools and scripts for how to confront difficult
conversations and difficult moments and conversations because it's a hard
thing to navigate when you're in that dark place and
(19:41):
when you're stuck and you're locked up together, and so
I wanted to spell it out as clearly as possible
to try to equip people to move through it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love that you have that because having the resources,
even when, like you mentioned, if somebody is not budging
on involving a therapist or somebody to mediate that will
give you some more resources. Hopefully at least then you
can know that you've tried absolutely everything at the end
of the day. There's also a part of this that
(20:09):
I think is involved to which your book really addresses, is.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
The mental load.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
The mental load exists for everyone in and outside of relationships.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That is just life.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
That's the experience we have with life.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
It's busy, it's chaotic.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But even more so for partners and people who have kids.
You want to talk about adding another layer of that load.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
You have so much happening. How does this mental.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Load then also affect these partnerships as there's already this
underlying cycle happening, and then you also have the mental
load on top of that.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
Yeah, I think it just accelerates things. I think this
is it just becomes one major area where there's an
opportunity for a deep resentment and misunderstanding, and so the
mental load, like you said, exists. Everyone has one, men
and women, kids have them. Everybody's got one. But when
it comes to home and family life, research shows time
(21:05):
and time again it's predominantly carried by women, even if
they work inside or outside the home. And so it
exists before kids, but after kids it increases overnight, literally
literally overnight, it becomes wayfuler after you have kids, And
so I think a lot of couples aren't prepared for this.
And my sort of like theory of understanding it is
(21:30):
right after a baby's born, the woman is in that
space of just caretaking for the baby.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All the right hormones are going.
Speaker 6 (21:38):
There's actual changes that happen to us, make us more
tuned to things, make us able to better regulate when
we hear the crying, Like even we can hear different decibels,
so we can actually hear I was listening to somebody
talk like about their husband never woke up to even
hear the baby.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
We actually hear a little bit better.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
So it's all these wild things that sort of set
us up.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
To take more on right out of the gate.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
I always say, with a mental load with home and
family life, the game is just rigged.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
We're just not playing this.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Yeah, I'm like it's rigged.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
It's rigged.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
And it's like, so we're entering in a motherhood and
all this stuff's going on, and so we just start
doing all of the things, and our partners are like nervous.
Maybe they're not jumping in and if we're not get
in there, change the diper, or they're not a partner
who does take that init ship really easily.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
We're set on a path to.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Where the woman in the relationship will just keep doing
the things in the dark without any awareness. It becomes invisible.
I describe women as the bounty quicker picker uppers because
we are just so absorbent. We go around soaking up
all of these tasks, and before you know it, we're
like three four years into having kids, five years into
having kids, and we're the ones who were handling everything.
(22:52):
And it's not to blame us, it's not to necessarily
blame our partners.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I don't always feel like that's productive.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Even though I understand and how you could, but we
just get to a place where we're so saturated we
don't know how we got here.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So much of it's invisible.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Our partners don't get it. Then we try to explain it,
and then they get defensive or they might say something
like you just make things harder than you need to,
or I don't know why you worry so.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Much about this stuff, and so that.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Those tuggered me, and I'm not Yes, it's so common.
I was on a podcast earlier and the husband said that,
and I was like, oh, my goodness, it's so good glad.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'm so glad we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (23:30):
This because it's such a common response.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So then you get this layered.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
I'm struggling and I'm overwhelmed, and now I am coming
to my partner who's supposed to be my source of
security and safety and they don't get it and they're
minimizing it, and so I feel less safe. And so
now we're entering into that cycle. Okay, do I get
louder I really am struggling, or do I stuff it
down and try to manage it? And even sometimes women
will judge themselves when they get that feedback from their partners.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Oh, I guess I am.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Making a big deal out of nothing, or maybe I
am needy, or maybe there is something wrong with me.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And women are.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Already so good at judging ourselves. We just don't need
more of that. So I'm trying to remember where the
question started. But just like, it's so easy to just
slide into that pattern and before you know it, we're
like in this sort of trench of disconnection that can
start to develop.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
No, you answered all of that, and I love the
different pathways that it went on. And I'll admit, as
someone who hasn't had kids yet, and as I've gotten.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Older, my view of having kids.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Once upon a time, if you would have met young Morgan,
she'd have been like, I'm having a white.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Picket fence, I will have a porch, I will have
four children in life will be amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, And Morgan now is a completely different person who's
very questionable on if I want to have kids, what
does that look like?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
What's going to change for me?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm having very hard questions that I'm asking myself. But
the one that instantly keeps revolving is I will have
kids if I have a partner that's willing and able
to actually be a partner of having kids.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I think that's yeah. I'll see on social.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Media a lot of people wrestling with this thing, a
lot of women wrestling with the same question, and or
it will.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Be nasty, or I'll just be like this one, I'm
never having.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Kids, and that's oh, that's not a message I want
to put out in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I believe that becoming a mother is part.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Of why it's hard is because it shines a light
on all of these areas you just have not developed.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And grown in. And so it's supposed to expand us.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
A marital relationship supposed.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
To do the same thing.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
It's tricky when the other person won't do that too
or but that's the sort of hard part but also
the beautiful part.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So I am like pro all of these things. I'm
a fan. I also understand it.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
But I do think the differentiator that younger generations are
paying more attention to, which is.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
A good thing, is what kind of partner do.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
You choose and how involved are they going to be
and how open are they having these conversations that don't
spiral into defensiveness and all the stuff that derails them.
But that becomes the piece that can change your experience
in motherhood.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Very much so.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And that was very much where or I was to
your point. It started as I'm having all the kids.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
I'm never having kids.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So now it's I want kids, but I also want
a really good partner, and the partner has to come first.
And if I don't find that, then I will be
okay with whatever else looks like. But that's more important
to me if I'm going to bring kids into the
world to have that partnership that really matters. That is
talking about the things that you're discussing with the cycles
(26:43):
and stuff. It also leads me into another question. And
I know this is a little bit different because you
primarily work with couples and marriages and stuff, but I
would love your perspective for someone like me who is single.
Isn't Mary doesn't have kids, but I want to and
I want to find a partner.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
How do I.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
As I'm getting into these relationships making sure that I'm
avoiding that cycle and avoiding and meaning it not happening,
not avoiding it, seeing it or running away. Is there
things that I can do and set up for myself
that I can potentially hope that whatever moment in time
I do get married, I don't fall into this same pattern.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yes, so I'll say a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
So my dad actually his sort of his main point
of interest in his main body of work is around
dating and singles. So he has a book called How
to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk, And.
Speaker 8 (27:40):
That's all I needed.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Yes, it is such a good and it's for men
or for women, and it's such a good book.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
And it really gives practical things.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
You should get to know about a potential partner to
predict what they'll be like in a long term relationship.
It's based on tons and tons of research that he
went through and then he basically organized all that research
into five things you got I get to know about
somebody that's predictive in the long term, because sometimes what
you get in the beginning is like not what you're
going to get later, So how do you figure that out?
So I would say that is a really good place
(28:10):
to start. Is like things that you get to know
in the early dating time is it's really important you
do that with intention and you do it with know how.
The second pieces, it's funny. I was having a conversation
with someone yesterday who's dating and she's actually the editor
of my book, and she's I can't believe how much
it's impacted how I'm showing up in my relationship. And
(28:33):
so she's my boyfriend or whatever, was over and we
were making dinner and he went to take the garbage out.
Just normally I would jump up and I'd be like,
oh no, I'll get that, like it's fine, but I'm
sitting back and letting him do things. And so I
talk about in my second book something called piling on precedence,
(28:53):
which is one of the ways I think the mental
load gets really full really fast, which is that early
in our relationship, as women especially, we're the good caretakers,
and so we like to do stuff for our partners
because it feels good, which I think is beautiful. But
also when we do the things at first they appreciate it,
and then after that it's out of their minds.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
They don't think about it anymore.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
And so how you set up the precedents early on
in a relationship is like shaping what you're going to
own and be expected to do.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And we do it and we're not even aware that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We'd do it.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh if, yeah, you're talking about this now, and now
I'm sorting to think about all the things.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yes, all the things my husband and I got together.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
I remember even early in our marriage he would work
and I'd be working.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I was in school and working.
Speaker 6 (29:40):
And I would go to the grocery store. I'd think
of the meals, i'd cook the dinner, and he'd get
up to do the dishes.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I'd be like, no, baby, I got this.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
I'm like the perfect housewife or something. And then I
remember a few years in a marriage, I was doing
the dishes and he wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Even fight me anymore. And so is he a jerk?
Speaker 6 (29:58):
Or did we get into this past where I pushed
him out? I fired him from the job, and so
he was like, sure, I'll sit on the couch.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
While you did.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
So we had to walk. We have to walk these
things back then if we've set this precedent. So I
think think about that when you're dating, as setting the standards,
setting the expectations, and anything that you take on you're
probably gonna own. And if you're not gonna want to
own that forever, that means you're gonna have to walk
it back later. So just heighten your awareness to some
(30:28):
of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I needed to hear that.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I really did ask someone who is not only a
caretaker but often also very strongly independent, Yes, I really
like to take care of stuff on my own and
take care of other people. So allowing things to happen
is really hard for me. So thank you for speaking
words into my mind.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Also, I'm not the only one that needed to hear
the whole, So I think it's becoming more common, especially
as the marriage age changes, yes, and people spend more
time alone before they get married. They're stuck in who
they are in their ways, and you have to adjust
to having a person in your life. So I think
a lot of people needed to hear that. There's another
part of this book. We're going background now. I had
(31:08):
to go off that little tangent because yeah, it was great,
but we were talking about the mental load, the cycle.
There's also a part of this that people, gosh do
not like to talk about, but it's so important because
part of our relationship is not just having an emotional connection,
it's intimacy.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, and when intimacy.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Is lost, that's a huge part that's missing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And you discuss how this cycle mental load can then
affect the intimacy in the relationship. Will you explain that
a little bit, because it's just not something people are
great at talking about or ever want to bring up,
so maybe hearing it from you will give them some
reassurance that it's okay.
Speaker 6 (31:45):
Yes, so it's layered, but I'll hit a couple points.
So the mental load takes up space in our brains.
I call it cognitive real estate. Takes up cognitive real estate.
And so what that means is that at space and
energy for other things like peace, presence, patients, regulating our emotions,
(32:06):
and getting in the mood for sex, especially for women,
because for a woman to be turned on, her brain
really needs to be turned off. And so if we
are swirling around with all of these things, it's going
to be hard to even think about sex. It's going
to be hard to get in the mood for sex.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
And so that's one piece.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
The other piece is that if the mental loade isn't
handled in a relationship in a way that feels good
in the partnership. So you know, she's overwhelmed, she's trying
to talk about it, he's like, you make things harder
than you need to, or gets defensive.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
She's going to feel invisible.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Disconnected, unappreciated. All these things in the relationship, which is
not conducive to a healthy sex life.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Being intimate is vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
You have to feel safe in your relationship to get
to that place, especially for women men it looks a
little bit different. But and so if the relationship doesn't
feel safe, it's going to affect this part of the relationship.
And I often say sex really starts outside of the bedroom,
and so we need to expand how we think of it.
(33:16):
For the longest time, I would beg my husband to
take me out on dates, especially after kids, and I'd.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Be like, he was into it, but he just didn't.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Prioritize it because he feels connected when we just exist
side by side. I was like, this doesn't I barely
see you.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
He's like, we're together all day And I was.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Like, I'm not talk to you.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's like the foreplay, right, You're like, this is there's
nothing here?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
So how am I supposed to be excited? Yes, exactly,
but like dates were my foreplay.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Yeah, And finally when I explained that he's like done,
was like, no convincing.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It that point.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
But we have to we have to understand and expand
how we think about getting in the mood for sex,
because it's not just what's going on in the bedroom.
I think another piece and I talk about this in
the book is that everybody has two core desires and
relationships to feel loved and to feel safe and secure,
(34:12):
and the way we want this expressed looks different. So
for women, a lot of times it's like being pursued,
being appreciated, having a partner who's like predictably reliant in
all the best ways. For men, one of the pathways
to feeling loved and secure is through sex. And so again,
like the game's kind of rigged. We're like, okay, we
(34:34):
want you to be emotionally tuned and present, and they're like, well,
I feel vulnerable until we've our intimate life's going well.
And so I think it's just helpful to understand these
things and these differences so we can maximize relationship outcomes.
If I understand my partner's going to feel like my husband,
he travels all the time. When he comes home from
(34:56):
a trip, he needs sex to feel like not awkward, right,
it's like how he feels safe.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
He'll be like, I'm so vulnerable, and.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
I'm like and then we'll be it's like this is
probably too much information, but he's not gonna listen. But
we'll be in bed and he'll be like ready to
like whatever, have sex, and I'll I'll be like, oh,
can we talk about something, And so I'll start a
real deep conversation and he's like, why do you do
that at the worst times.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And I've actually talked about this before, and I've heard
women be like I do that all the time.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
And part of it's because we're wanting we're entering into
something vulnerable and we need to feel that safety of connection,
that security of connection, whereas our partners are like, well,
the sex is how I get there, So can we
stop the talking?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And so I think it's just important for us to.
Speaker 6 (35:40):
Understand these differences in order to work through some of
the stuff, not to personalize it, but to have a
better relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, to your point, if the game is rigged, then
we have to rig it back. Yes, we have to
start using different tools. Got to know, yes, to fix it. Yes,
thank you for talking about that, because I know it's
I'm sure.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
I just know there's people listening, like I have.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Definitely done that before for sure.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
And Doctrine Morgan, I always in these podcasts or the
interviews with a piece of advice or motivation or anything
on a topic that maybe we didn't get to, or
something you just really want to make sure people know,
or there's something that comes to mind for you that
you want to share.
Speaker 6 (36:17):
I'm really bad at this question, but I'll just say
the first thing that came to mind was around needs,
because I feel we talk a lot about how women
have a hard time expressing their needs, but I think
men do actually too, because they're supposed.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
To be needless.
Speaker 6 (36:31):
So a lot of times in our relationships, we have
a lot of needs that never get spoken or we
have a hard time defining, and so I have a
shortcut for identifying what we need, and so I'll offer that.
And that's that you think about what you complain about
the most. I feel like our complaints our windows to
our unmet needs.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
You probably don't experience this, but a lot of married
women do, which is that they will mutter under their
breath around the house sometimes when they're at their limit.
And so I encourage you to.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Examine the mutterings and what is the common thread, because
it will reveal something that you need.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And men too, I think.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
A lot of times they'll get maybe gruff or tense,
but not know why. So can you take a minute
and think about what is it that you're not getting
in that moment that's bugging you. And then the second
piece is when we express needs in our relationships, a
lot of times we do them as complaints instead of
(37:31):
owning the need, and we often leave out a clear deliverable,
so we'll say, like this vague can't you just help
me more? Or can't you be more romantic? Or these
are sort of vague requests. So encourage people as you
define what you need, to think about how you can
express it in a way that has like a clear
desired outcome so that you can maximize your chances of
(37:53):
getting the need met.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
And a lot of what you're saying I totally relate
to in some of my relationships that I've had because
it is it's it's an easy back to the cycle thing.
It's easy to get in this rotation of constantly you
feel like you communicating your needs. I have this conversation
with my girlfriends a lot. I'm like, did you actually
communicate that or.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
Do you think you communicated that?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Because those are two different things, and if you think
you left subtle hints, I was like, the best thing
you will ever do in your life is understand that
you have to spell it out. You have to you
you cannot think it doesn't just mean meant it means
in anything. You have to believe that someone does not
understand you unless you say it point blank.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
This is what I want, in need.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (38:35):
Yes, and that's what you're That's what I'm saying. It's
so it's if you're not clearly, you're really confusing. I
asked for romance, like more romance for four years, and
then I would get flowers the next week, and actually
that's not how I view romance. So I'd be like, oh,
thanks for the flowers, and.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Then you'd be offended, and then that would be the
end of.
Speaker 6 (38:54):
It because he didn't really understand what that meant, and
he could have asked more directly. There's shared responsibility, but
absolutely I did not communicate it. So yeah, getting clear, Yeah,
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
We thank you for being here, Thank you for sharing
all your expertise and wisdom on all the topics. You're wonderful,
and be sure to check out her book you want
to give it a little plug.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Yeah, I better share how couples can tackle themntal load
for more fun, less resentment and great sex wherever you
buy books, yeah, Audible, all the things.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Thank you so much, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
One of my softball friends from way back in the day.
She is known as Kelsey Hunter today, but as I
knew her, it was Kelsey Stewart. She's a badass on
the softball field and plays for the Athletes Unlimited Softball
League now, but she's an Olympian, has played on Team
USA and the University of Florida. So just an insane
athlete all around, but also a great person.
Speaker 5 (39:53):
Kelsey, thanks for joining.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Me, of course, thanks for having me. I love following
your life all on social media.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
It's been It feels very weird for me now to
see both of us in this stage of our lives.
And I joked, it's funny we're connecting back on zoom,
But once upon a time we were sitting on a
bus together and making all kinds of racket headed to
softball tournaments every weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Crazy, No, like actually crazy when you sit back and
think about it.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
It really is.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
And now not only are you just an athlete, but
you're also a mom and doing just all.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Kinds of amazing things.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So I do want them to hear your story and
your words. So give us your kind of life as
not only just a mom, but a softball player, the
whole thing.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah. So I started playing softball probably when I was
about eight years old. And really what happened was there
was like a tenant under team and they needed an
extra player. My parents were like, she has nothing else
to do this, so sure, let's go do it. So
grew up in Arc City, Kansas or Arkansas City, Kansas.
My senior year, moved to Mace. Played travel ball forever.
(40:59):
Like when I was thirteen, I started playing eighteen gold,
which is insane.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And that was actually where Kelsey and I became really
good friends. We both played on the same travel ball
team together and we both went up to play on
this eighteen gold team together.
Speaker 8 (41:11):
We're both young, very young, crazy.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
And then I committed to Florida the summer of my
freshman year, going into high school freaking again crazy. I
got recruited. Actually I was in a tournament in New York.
Then I had trip and fell. I bunted trip and
fell and I was still safe at first, so they
coach Roll was like, yeah, she's good. So how that happened?
(41:34):
And then went to Florida, won two national championships, had
the time of my freaking life. I started playing ten
USA the summer after my freshman year of college and
then had been on too USA all the way to
the Olympics. Obviously COVID happened, so it got postponed a year.
Then I've also been playing pro and now there's this
(41:55):
new pro league called Athletes Unlimited. Super excited to be
a pioneer if that is. We have two kids. Husband. Honestly, like,
I have no complaints in life, and like, all glory.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
To God for all that you have always been on
the track of athletes since I've known you. That was
always your path and you really never wavered in that.
Why do you think that was such a path And
how did you know it so early?
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Honestly, Like, I don't really know. Like I was just
good at sports, Like it was just something that like
it came easy to me. It's something that I enjoyed.
It wasn't like a headache to get me to go
do extra things.
Speaker 8 (42:36):
So it was just, hey, like, you're good at this.
So I just stayed on that path.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
And then obviously with the help of my parents, like
not allowing me to be distracted from outside things, and
really then it was just like, wow, I really love
doing this, and so I just kept going.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And after you had done Team USA at one point
where you're like nothing can top this.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
What am I gonna do next? Yeah, especially whenever at
first happened, like whenever I was on the first couple teams,
we weren't in the Olympics. So I'm like, no, like
I have reached like the top. I've won a national championship,
I've played on Team USA, Like what is next? I
didn't even know there was a pro league it. Like again,
it's like, what is next? What do I do after?
Speaker 7 (43:16):
This?
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Definitely happens, still happens, but it's fun.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
So far for you?
Speaker 1 (43:22):
What is your Mount rushmore? Of your biggest moments in
your life so far?
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Obviously having kids, getting married, hitting the walk off for Japan,
and then I would say going to the Olympics and
then winning.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
National championship, so many good things, like truly you have
the Mount rushmore?
Speaker 4 (43:42):
No, like actually, like when I seriously when I think back,
I'm like, I have been so blessed, Like God did
not skip out whatsoever whenever I was going through my journey,
like I feel like I've hit every pinnacle you can hit,
been super blessed to be able to have kids, to
be able to raise my kids, able to all of
these things. I'm like, no, like I am living a
(44:03):
great life.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (44:06):
We see on social media kind of the juxtaposition between
men's athletics women's athletics.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
What was it like for you in this entire journey.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Was there moments where you're like, yeah, this is true
in moments where it wasn't, or give me the breakdown
of that from your experience.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Oh yeah, it's all freaking true. Like it is a
struggle being a woman in sports. I feel like there's
just like this weird thing whereas women were supposed to
be so grateful. Oh my god, they gave us the opportunity. Wow,
we should be grateful, but like, why can we not
demand more at the same time, Like there was times
like on TMUSA, especially like I was not being paid
(44:43):
to play softball, Like it was just like a oh, yeah,
I want to do it. I want to play for
my country, let's do it. There's times that I was
like grinding to pay rent because I was trying to
be a softball player trying to be professional and like
in that sport, like you don't make a lot of money,
Like I think minimum is like eight thousand dollars, and
it's like, yeah, like how are you supposed to live?
(45:03):
And even with this, athletes unlimited, Like it's a great thing,
and I think it's going to be a great thing.
But the gap between who are getting paid the most
and who's getting paid the least, that's what we're like,
what I'm trying to push forward is just want to
merge that gap between women's sports. But then like we
would hope one day, like I hope when if I
have a little girl that she's not struggling to pay
rent to play pro sport, like she can play a
(45:25):
pro sport, do what she loves, but also enjoy life.
And I feel like there's few it's like women's soccer,
women's basketball, and then after that it's like falls off,
and so we have to like I feel like we,
especially in softable, we kind of have to find a
way to merge that gap. But merge a gap between
men and women would be unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
That is a crazy experience to think this is the
coolest moment of my life. I'm on Team USA, I'm
playing in the Olympics. But also I can't pay my rent.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
No, it's like actually crazy, Like I don't think that
people like really have the concept of what happens. I've
played on Teamiorsay for nine years and so in that time,
I would say from USA, I was paid twenty thousand
dollars snacks too.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
But now you were working other jobs while you were
full time trying to be an athlete.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yeah, still am.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
So you have a full time job now and you're
playing in this professional league.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Yeah, I don't have a choice, like we like, literally,
you don't have a choice in life. It'd be so
nice to just be able to focus, like train and
do all those things, be a mom, and then go
play softball. But I cannot afford that whatsoever, even like
with my husband.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
So yeah, so how do you do it?
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (46:36):
You have to be in this shape all the time
to play. You are a mom, you have to have
a job, you're a wife, Like, how are you balancing
all of these things and still keeping your sanity at
the same time.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
No, I tell people all of the time, like it
takes a village. So my mom, my, dad, my brother,
my grandma, my husband, every single person you can think of.
It's all hands on. Like everyone. It's like we have schedules.
It's oh, my mom works today, Okay, she's out the picture.
My sister doesn't work today, Okay, she has the kids.
My husband doesn't work today, Okay he has the kids.
And something that I've learned, like super early on. I
(47:11):
have two kids. They are eleven months and two years old.
So something that I learned very early on is I
will not allow my myself to be put in spaces
that my family's not allowed. That kind of like nix
a lot of things. It's oh, my kids can't come,
Oh I can't come, Like you have to provide this space.
Like I'm a working mom, but I will also be
(47:32):
a present mom. You want me to do a thing, Okay,
can you find my kids out with me? Because like
that's the only way this works. And it's been definitely hard,
and I think just talking to my friends, they're like,
you make it look really easy. I probably should be
more transparent about how freaking hard it is and just
having a kid, losing your body like I had two
c sections, so they cut through layers of my body
(47:54):
and then I played four months later, like I was
tripping a little bit. When I look back, I'm like crazy.
But it takes the village for sure. Even when I'm
on the road with the with the girls, they're helping
me like, oh yeah, we'll take trades, and then he
comes to back with.
Speaker 8 (48:10):
Ten stuffed animals, I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 4 (48:13):
So it literally takes everyone.
Speaker 5 (48:15):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
I love that you say that they created this space
for you and that's why you've been able to continue
doing it. Detail that experience for me a little bit
because I haven't been pregnant before and know so many
women have though, but to gosh, to have two children
and then ask to be this professional athlete that can
(48:37):
do these things. How was that experience for you? Were
you in the safe space to be able to do that?
Were there moments for here like there's no way that
I continue this path?
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah? There? So athletes unlimited like their whole goal as
so they have basketball, volleyball, and softball. So the whole
thing was like you should be able to have a family,
start that family, and then be able to continue to
play softball. So I took that to heart. I got pregnant,
but then I was the first person to ever get
pregnant in this system.
Speaker 8 (49:08):
So they're like, okay, cool, we'll see you next year.
And I'm like, no, I was expecting this money from you. Respectfully,
I was expecting to have this income.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
I was having a baby, like right in the middle
of season, so I couldn't like fly out there, I
couldn't do all these things. So it's been really cool
that I've been someone who's helped them through this process
of how we can make it better and do all
these things. Definitely lots of moments where I'm like is
this worth it, especially in those like newborn stages. My
child's screaming, I'm up like all night, and then I'm
(49:39):
like okay, Like I gotta go work out. There's nothing
in me that wants to work out, like I'd rather
just sleep. But again, athletes in Learmon has been truly great.
They provided nanny for me. They pay child support or
child support, child nanny whatever that's called childcare. There you
go childcare for them. They like, get an extra room,
(50:00):
whatever I need. They're like super great about it. This
year will be the first year that we're gonna be
like traveling everywhere, so I'm interested to see how this
is gonna go. It's probably gonna be working through it again,
but like, I think it's good because it's not just
me anymore. There's another girl just had a baby, So
I'm like really excited but training and getting this is
the first year that I've actually had a year to
(50:23):
train and get back into shape, so I'm super excited
to see where I am this year. I'm like pumped.
I'm like, Wow, this is the first time I've hit
and worked out in February. Let's freaking go.
Speaker 5 (50:32):
Do you feel like maybe having babies was your superpower
and now you're gonna even be a better athlete?
Speaker 4 (50:38):
I claim it in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 5 (50:40):
Right there, I'm gonna believe it for you. I'm also
gonna for you.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
I love your perspective of just sharing the realness of
this experience because it is. And I never want to
make somebody, especially a woman's athlete, talk just about being
the fact that she's a woman and an athlete. But
there's just such a drastic comparison of what happens for
you versus what's happening for a man, and the toll
this is taking on your body but you love.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
The sport so much that you still choose to keep
doing it.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Talk to me about that passion for softball, because it
has to be a drive behind so much of this.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Yeah, you talk about like women and you don't want
that to be it, but like it does take a toll.
Even now we got tiered this year of there's Tier
five to Tier one whatever that is. And I've been
I've had a baby or been pregnant the past two years.
So like, as much as you don't want that to
affect where you're like placed and what happens, like, it
does affect and I can't be mad about that, but
(51:38):
like at the same time, I'm like, how unfair is that?
But everyone always tells me, like, you'll know when it's
time to retire, like you like everything will just you'll know.
And I haven't had that feeling yet. It's been one
of those things where I'm like, oh, softball's on. I
have five games going still and it's oh, that's something new,
(51:59):
let me go that. And I'm out trying something new
to my swing or like playing catch with my husband,
taking grand balls, like those are things that like still
bring me so much joy, and it's almost like too,
like a little it's cool for my kids to see,
Like I think that there's a stereotype that kids always
watch the dad be a professional and they watch them
work and do all of these things.
Speaker 8 (52:19):
So it's really cool that my husband.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Is one so supportive, and two that my two boys
get to watch me in this professional environment and how
I work and how I go about business. But then
on the flip side of that, get to make them
ally and women's sports, so maybe one day if they're
making millions of dollars, it's like, yeah, like I'll support
women's sports. That's what my mom did. I watch they
work harder than we do kind of thing. So it's
(52:43):
been really cool, Like I love that side of it.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I was just gonna say, I I have to imagine
your kids are watching you and they're already knowing the
superhero that you are because you're their mom, but then
on top of it, to watch you go out and
crush it's on a field.
Speaker 5 (52:56):
They're like, I don't know a life any different than this.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
This is what it is. It's like crazy because like
I would go in and I could thirty minutes hitting
and be easy. Now Trace wants to go with me
and it takes maybe an hour because he has to
hit off the tea two. I love it. I wouldn't
change it for anything, but like that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
So how do you balance this lifestyle and working and
being successful in your career and et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. You have so many things? How are you
balancing it? I know you say it takes a village,
but like, when you look at your life and day
to day, how do you make decisions? How are you
trying to decide what's best for you and your family
and your career.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
I think like knowing what's a priority and to me,
like my boys and my husband are always going to
reign supreme. That's my number one focus every single day,
and then I'd go from there. So it's like, oh okay,
like maybe today I can cram in all of my work.
Like I have really great I work for a really
(53:55):
great company, Target Sports, and they're like super great about
me playing professional, me being a mom, me working and
doing all these things. So like I work from home,
which is like the best thing ever, and they're so
supportive and I have some great people in my corner
with Jeremie Cappo and Kenny Lanyard and all these people
that really make it where it's like can you do that?
(54:16):
Is it okay? Do you have time for this kind
of thing? And it's listen, you are trusting me to
do my job, so like I'm going to make sure
I do that job. Starts with my kids, and then
it's like, hey, I got to feed my family, and
then it's what time.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
I have left is like for softball, which.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
My husband is like a workout freak, and so it's
like easy for me to want to go work out
because I'm like, he cannot look better than me. That's
not how this works. And then you fit it in
from there and I feel like those pieces of it,
my family can join in with me and do all
those things.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, and you're creating not just this environment for what
you mentioned as their mom playing, but you're also creating
a very healthy lifestyle for them of this work life
balance one and two to always be working out. You
just bring them along for the right and heck, they're
gonna be squatting before more before you know it.
Speaker 4 (55:04):
Yeah, like they every time I go to GEMI Soun's
always I go work out and I'll like I have
his bag and I'm like, this is fantastic, but he
just goes to the swimming pool. But whatever, we'll talk
about that later date. He's only too.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
What do you hope to see as you continue and
play in this professional field? What do you hope to
see for women's sports change in the coming years, coming decades?
Speaker 4 (55:25):
Yeah, I like, obviously the number one thing would be,
like women are playing for millions of dollars. That would
be the goal. It's just, oh, like I can stay
on this track of sports, and sure there's commentating there's
women in sports that aren't playing sports, but I would
love for that to be a thing that's, Oh, if
I work hard enough, like I can play, I can
(55:45):
support my family while doing something I love. I can
travel the world while doing something I love. So that
would be the number one goal. But then I think
to even expand on that, would there be like there's
programs in place for women that get pregnant, of here's
a trainer that works, like they specialize in women that
are pregnant, so you like don't get out of shape,
(56:05):
and doctors that help you through these things because there
are like things that happen in pregnancy that are out
of your control and labor that happens, all these things
out of your control. But I it would be deeper,
the support system would be deeper in that, and it
would go across the board of all women's sports. But
that that's like.
Speaker 8 (56:22):
A whole different topic because then it's like.
Speaker 4 (56:25):
Now we like are fighting for parental leave or whenever
we have kids in like normal life. So this is
just like a small part of it. But I do
think that if we can expand that in the sports world,
it trickles down like women, like these women that are
always on TV and people are always looking up to
they're demanding this, and then it's like the next one
(56:47):
they're demanding it, and then frick, I'm I am too,
Like I'm worthy of that, And so I think there's
like the support gets deeper, and it's more it's not
just women supporting women. We have males, and we have dad,
and we have professional athletes. We have all of those things.
Speaker 8 (57:03):
So I would obviously say the million dollars and then.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
After that the support how deep it goes.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
When you go out and you do these things like
Team USA and you're in the Olympics, what was the
most like drastic differences you were seeing competing as a
woman versus competing as a man.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, like things like just flying commercial and they like,
this is the story I tell everyone because this was
the first time that it like hit me because as
a woman in sports, it's like just something that you
go with the flow. You do what you're told. You
get on the commercial flight, it's at six am, you
play at seven whatever. That looks like like we just
(57:42):
did it. But my husband was my childcare person when
I had my first son, and we get on a flight.
His flight gets delayed for we were on two summer flights.
It like they messed up. But anyways, were on two
supper flights. So I get on the first one. We're
in North Carolina. We drive from the airport, it's two
and a half hours. My husband fights, gets delayed, like
(58:03):
three or four hours. He lands, and then they get
in traffic, so the instead of a two hour turns
until five or six hour bus ride. And he's really confused,
and I'm like about what he's like, First off, I'm delayed.
What Second, where's the police escort? Said? I'm sorry what
he's like. I would never get on a bus without
(58:24):
a police escort, like, I'm confused, and you guys don't
have a chartered flight. I'm what this is. I'm like, no,
this is women's sports, Like, this is what we deal
with all the time.
Speaker 8 (58:35):
Yeah, and so I just put everything into perspective.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
And then he's like over here like telling his friends
like this is bull crap, that what they.
Speaker 8 (58:41):
Have to deal with, and so I think, like they
don't understand.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
Because they don't go through it.
Speaker 8 (58:46):
And so that's probably one of my favorite stories.
Speaker 4 (58:49):
But that is probably like Night and Day, like, I
only got a try to fight when we made it
to the biggest thing in college. Meanwhile, he they could
drive two hours to Gamesville and they're chartering for thirty
minutes and what do you mean he got all this money. Nope,
didn't happen.
Speaker 8 (59:08):
It's just all like the differences are seriously, Night and Day.
Speaker 5 (59:12):
Was your husband a college athlete too?
Speaker 4 (59:14):
Oh yeah? Sorry? He played football Florida State?
Speaker 5 (59:17):
Okay, and then he stopped after college.
Speaker 4 (59:20):
Yeah he broke his neck. Yeah, so he actually played
like in the Canadian Football League CFL and all those things.
But I broke his neck.
Speaker 5 (59:28):
Wow, I'm very glad he's still here in you got
a meat and that whole thing happened life. But so
he knows he's seeing these differences and he experienced them
in real time.
Speaker 4 (59:39):
Yeah, and he was like he was I would say too,
Like he won a national championship at Florida State, so
like he was like the top one percent in college football,
So like he knows what it's like to be spoiled
and not want Like all he has to worry about
is playing football, and so to come out and then
he's like, wait, how much do you get paid? And
he's like asking me like is it worth it? And
I'm like, I have to stay in this to help
(01:00:01):
grow this game. I want the next generation to benefit
from what we're doing. And he's, I guess it's like
one of those things. He's you could literally go work
a couple of camps and make what you're making playing.
Is that worth it kind of thing?
Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
It's helpful too to have him have that experience too,
because then it makes him an advocate for you too
as well and to his friends who are I imagine
we're also either at once college athletes could be professional
now yes, and at least it's slowly growing as there
are advocates for it, and I do think it's truly
(01:00:35):
unfortunate that we're still here in twenty twenty five and
this is still the case.
Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
No, it's so unfortunate. And the crazy parties we have
made leaps and balans, but like we're still here, and
I tell everyone, like something will happen. I'm like, same shit,
different yere, and like it's sad that I feel that way,
Like I want to be like, no, this is so good,
this is better, but like I have an expectation as
a professional athlete, as a mom, and like I won't
(01:01:01):
stop till that's met.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
When somebody like Caitlyn Clark comes into the picture, say
that again, When someone like Caitlin Clark comes into the
picture and she's all over social media, everybody's knowing her name,
but she's becoming this household name.
Speaker 5 (01:01:19):
Does that feel helpful in that respect? Does it?
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
What does it do for you guys as a whole
with women's sports when something like that comes into.
Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Play, Yeah, I definitely think all it does is help.
All it does is help is you get eyes on
women's sports that can only help well, and it only
trickles down to everything. I do think that you see
more of that gap and pay And again, I don't
know Kaitlyn Clark. She could be taking a cut to
make sure everyone else is getting money. I don't know
(01:01:50):
what that looks like for her, but that would be
the only negative side is that gap. But she deserves
every single penny that she's getting making all the I
think she's a great advocate for women's sports. I think
she does it the right way. I think she plays
so gritty and so like in your face, and that's
been such like a thing that's been so like.
Speaker 8 (01:02:12):
You can't play like that, and it's like why, Like
this is fun to freaking watch and she's gonna shoot
it from half court and let you know, turn around
like I love it, and someone like her who's doing
it the right way and drawing all of those eyes
like amazing. We need to do better on softball, like
getting her to a game so more people will watch.
But I think that only does great things for women's sports.
Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I know you mentioned that that grittiness of her, and
of course she gets ruined online for saying mean things,
for acting up, for lack of a better term, not
acting like a woman.
Speaker 5 (01:02:47):
But I think there is such a misconception about even
so when we were playing, we were mean.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
We got competitive because we were competitive, we wanted to win.
Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
What experiences have you had.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Over the course of time where somebody, you're a woman,
don't do it that way or do it this way
because this looks better.
Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Yeah, I think that happens a lot. When I was
in college, we actually were not allowed to have social
media for awful years, and it probably saved us a lot,
at least me personally, because I'm like that fiery person
all fireback, I do not care. So I think like
you get those people I would love myself in that
I don't really care what you have to say. You're
(01:03:28):
gonna keep turning on the TV to watch me, I
bet money, because you're gonna see if I want to
do it again next week. And so I think, like,
you have those athletes that are so like this is
how I play, like you either accept it or move on.
And so now, but now it's getting to the point
where women's sports is all over. It's on ESPN and
it's on ABC. It's like where it's constantly being televised
(01:03:49):
and so like you don't have a choice but to watch.
And so I think to mold yourself into something that
you can't be comfortable and you can't play your best
because you're trying to mold into something that society tells
you to be will never work. And so I think
to have that confidence and be who you are at
all times and then just know there's people behind you regardless.
(01:04:11):
Is that If that's one, because my one, then guess
what I have you now? So now that there's two,
it's me Morgan. Now you got two people behind you.
So I think that is something that it's hard for
younger athletes because I we like, social media was big
when we were growing up, but it wasn't like it
is today. And so I don't care to tap into
social media see what people are saying on me because
guess what, I don't know you dude, Your Twitter fingers
(01:04:33):
are going crazy and yet you've never said hi to me,
so like your.
Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
And also probably never picked up a softball in his life.
Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
And so I'm like, even I'll get on social media,
like after a big softball game, like a Florida game,
and people are talking crap, and I'm like, I dare
you to go just run sprint run a six am
with them I'm not even play you play softball, just
run a six am with them and see what happens.
I think, like it is harder because there's so much
validation in social media for so many people. But I
(01:05:01):
have a kid and husband. So the other one day
I think I was like, oh, for three with two strikeouts,
and my kid was like, good job, mommy, and I'm like, no,
feel but it's fine. So it's like perspective for me,
like I do not care what other people think.
Speaker 5 (01:05:14):
It definitely is.
Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
It definitely gives you this perspective because they know you
did the best job you could do in that moment,
and you're like, really that, but they did and they
give you that perspective.
Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Yeah, it's insane. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Speaking of young athletes, I always like to end on
a motivational thing, but I think something that would be
really good to hear is any athletes that are coming
up that are currently in it, whatever it may be,
and maybe you choose to go in the direction of women,
just all athletes however you want to do this, but
what is something you would want young athletes to know
today if you were to give them a piece of advice,
(01:05:49):
if they're on a similar journey to yours.
Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Yeah, I would. The main thing I would probably say
is you are enough. You have all the tools. People
are constantly going to have opinions, people are constantly going
to talk about you. And I tell everyone, if someone's
not talking about you, then like you're doing something wrong.
The more people talking about you, like, like you said,
look at Kaitlin Clark, like she is one of the
best athletes in college basketball and someone is constantly talking
(01:06:16):
about her. So to me, she's doing something right. And
so I think you are enough. Stay on your path,
stay with what you know, keep your circle with people
that are on the same route as you, and not
people that are gonna be jealous or drag you down
because they're not worth it whatsoever. You're enough, Keep your
circle small, and keep the main thing the main thing
(01:06:38):
at the end of the day. And if you need
someone to talk to you, you need someone to have
your back, I'm here. I'm available on Instagram, on Twitter,
whatever you need, I'm here and I'll support you one
hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I also want to do a kind of tailored piece
of advice here to what is something that people just
the normal person that isn't even in the sports world,
someone like me. I think I know some of the
answer because I follow you on social media and I
support you. But what are some things we can do
to support women's sports more to hopefully one day be
(01:07:08):
where you're wanting.
Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
It to be.
Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I think like the main thing is to show up.
I think it's easy to sit back and watch it
on the TV and do all these things, but like,
the more people that show up, the bigger it becomes.
So I think you show up for those different women's sports,
and you on social media, you can repost, and like,
the more people that you're the more times you're reposting
(01:07:32):
and sharing, the more people it's getting to. But my
main thing really is to show up and support people
and shut those people down that have the nerve to
say women aren't worthy or they can't do something. Shut
it down and just post a video of some women
doing something so badass that you can't help it. But
showing up is probably number one.
Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
That was one of my favorite trends over the past
year where it was all these women who are like
this man asked me what I did or try to
demand explain something to me, and then they just come
back with the whole gamut of things that they've done.
Speaker 4 (01:08:05):
Like man's plaining is like the worst, Like stop doing that?
Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Yes exactly, Kelsey, Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I'm so proud of you and your success and your
drive and your passion for what you've always done.
Speaker 5 (01:08:17):
You've always been this way.
Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
You are the same person that I sat on the
back of a very many bus with where we cause
a whole lot of trouble, and that's really cool. Given
everything that you've done and experience in your life. To
be the same person is admirable. And congratulations on being
just a badass, not only athlete, but also mother too.
Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
Thanks. You're a pretty badass too, my love following your journey.
I'm super proud of you too, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Oh thanks a fellow Morgan and my old softball teammate.
This was such a fun episode and I hope you
all took some things away from it that may help
in your lives. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast
and leave a five star review if you're enjoying it.
You can also follow the podcast Instagram at take this personally.
As always, I'm I'm so happy that you're here, Love you,
talk to you next week.
Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Bye,
Hosts And Creators
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Morgan Huelsman
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Mike D
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