January 6, 2026 • 54 mins
Happy New Year, book club besties! What better way to start anew than to chat with the woman who reinvented makeup for an entire generation – and then, when she was 60, reinvented herself. No matter where you know her from, or what she’s doing, Bobbi Brown is totally, completely herself. No compromising. So when we heard that Bobbi was writing a memoir, called Still Bobbi – because, of course it is – I knew we had to have her on Bookmarked.
Books mentioned:
Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
I Regret Almost Everything by Keith McNally
Be Ready When the Luck Happens: A Memoir by Ina Garten
Brother and Sister by Diane Keaton
Susan Sarandon: Actress-Activist by Marc Shapiro
Estée: A Success Story by Estée Lauder
Becoming Elizabeth Arden: The Woman Behind the Global Beauty Empire by Stacy A. Cordery
My Life For Beauty by Helena Rubinstein
Trust Your Gut by Jennifer Fisher
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs by Judi Barrett
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
Happy New Year, everybody. I'm so excited to begin a
new chapter with all of you. And what better way
to start anew than to chat with the woman who
reinvented makeup for an entire generation and then when she
was sixty, she reinvented herself. Pretty inspiring, right, But first,
(00:28):
it's the first Tuesday of the month, and you know
what that means. It's time to announce the first Reese's
book Club Pick of twenty twenty six. Reese, let us
know what you're obsessing over this month.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hi, bookmark listeners. Okay, for the first time ever in
Reese's book Club history, we are coming to you with
a sequel.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Our January Reese's book Club pick is The First Time
I Saw Him by Laura Dave.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
That is the sequel to the last Thing he told me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Uh. This book.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It completes Hannah and Bailey's story so beautifully, but it
also feels like it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
A standalone novel.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
They are like two perfect halves of a whole fitting together.
It was such a pleasure to return to these characters
just in time for the next season of the TV show.
The last thing he told me is starring Jennifer Garner.
It has so many moments of family love and you
watch this woman, Hannah come into her power. I think
(01:30):
you're going to finish this in a single day. So
what are you waiting for? Pick up a copy of
the First Time I Saw Him by Laura Dave, Our
January Reese's Book Club Pick for twenty twenty six. Oh
my gosh, it's twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You all know I love a first. Laura Dave just
became the first Reese's Book Club author to have both
a book and it's sequel selected. That's what we on
Bookmark like to call I conic. I mean, obviously I
had questions. Take a listen, Laura Dave, Welcome to the Club.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm welcoming you to the club because this is the
first time that I'm getting to talk to you on
the podcast. But you've really been a part of the club,
even before I was a part of the club. You've
really been here.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh I'm so happy.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
This is the first episode of twenty twenty six. So,
Happy New Year, Happy Pub Day.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Oh thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
This is your second pub day as a Reese's book Club.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Pay it is?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Do you have any pub day traditions that you're continuing?
Do you have new traditions? Is it balloons and champagne?
Is there a ritual dance we need to know about?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
So what's so funny is that for every book I
listen to a song on repeat the entire time I'm
writing the book. And so I have a little pub
day tradition which is when I wake up, the first
thing I do is listen to that song, and then
I always try to take a walk. Listening to music
or taking a walk with a friend is my happy place.
So that's sort of how I start pub day to
(02:58):
sort of ground everything, and then it's off to the races.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's so nice. You know what's funny is every time
I date a new man and I say like, okay,
I'm going on a walk with a friend, They're like,
I don't understand these walking dates. Yes, they don't do them.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
They don't do them. You know, it's so funny. Kate Bear,
the poet, has this incredible poem in her new collection,
in which she talks about I'm going to paraphrase badly,
but basically what you're saying like men cannot understand the
way we as women communicate and what that gives us,
(03:34):
and they're always going to be outside of it, not
quite understanding.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
You know, spotif.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
There's something about women friendships that's so healing and magical
and walk and now I've read that walking and talking
at the same time is like you know how they
say to do all those brain exercises, It's like the
best brain exercise you can do because you're activating two
things at once. So you can tell all those men
that you're the next guy who doesn't know what you're doing,
(04:01):
you tell him that be like I'm protecting my brain
from dementia.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, I am doing brain exercises exactly. So when you
published the first book, you listened to If I Should
Fall Behind by Bruce Springsteen. That was the song, Yes,
what was the song you had on loop for the sequel?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
So for the sequel it was Cardigan on Folklore. I
know I'm not alone in my love of that album
and that song. That wonderful artist Tota Swift. The last
verse became for me like a siren call for Hannah
Hall who you know, if the first novel, the last
thing he told me was really about Hannah figuring out
(04:41):
the question that was at the center of the book,
which is what are you willing to do for the
people you love? The second book is really about belief
and salvation and what are you willing to do for
a second chance? And that last verse it felt to
me like it was her sort of screaming into the
void that she knew this man and she knew her
(05:03):
family in a way that no one else could. It's
that same position of strength that she knew the end
of the story and she was going to take us there.
So it was a really wonderful song to spend. You know,
thirty thousand listens to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And listening to music doesn't distract you from writing? Does
it become almost a part of the rhythm? Can you
explain to me.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
That's such a good way that's say it. It becomes rhythmic.
So for me, like one of the best compliments is
when a reader reaches out and says, I could not
put this down. It gave me relief from xxx whatever's
going on in their life. And to sort of hold
on to that propulsion. I do think it's like a rhythm,
and to the point that when I'm listening to the
(05:48):
song on repeat, I stop it wherever I've stopped writing
that day, and the next day I pick up exactly
where I left off. To me, it creates One of
the things I do as I'm writing is when I edit,
I read out loud. No one's in the room but me,
but as a way to make sure that it's a
story that feels like it's being read to you out loud,
(06:10):
which is almost what a song is. It's a story
that you're listening to out loud. Every book I find
that song, and every book I start with like a
playlist of songs that I think are contenders or that
I'm listening to when I do the research, and then
it always just narrows down and it's something like with Cardigan,
it's a verse that speaks to me. It's a line
(06:32):
that speaks to me, and I'm like, oh, this is
the siren call of this story.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That makes sense, because something I love about this series
in particular is how much meaning and power you pack
into even just a handful of words, as short and
as powerful as possible. Give us the plot of the
first time I saw him.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Okay, The first time I saw him picks up precisely
where the last thing he told me left us off.
We're in the design center with Hannah Hall and Owen.
Her husband has returned after five years on the run,
and she knows, even if she doesn't know why yet,
(07:14):
it's because she and Bailly are once again in danger,
and she's about to unearth all the reasons why that
is and hit this relentless race to get herself and
her daughter to safety again.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And so confirming that we are jumping five years ahead,
because at the end of the first book we don't
really know where we're headed.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
We don't know, so at the end of the at
the first book it says maybe five years later, maybe
eight years later, maybe ten years later. And when we
open the second book, we are five years in the future,
and we revisit that scene and now we see it
from Owen's point of view, and that propels us into the.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Action how'd you choose five years?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
So for me, it's really about Bailey, and I really
liked the eye idea of rejoining her in early adulthood.
Those years between your late teen years in your early
twenties are so important for how we form ourselves as adults,
and Owen has missed that, and Hannah has been present
(08:17):
for it. So that was a big piece of it.
And the other piece was, you know, so many readers
reached out after the first book and said, like, well,
what happens next? What happens next? And I was so
surprised because I thought that was the end of the story.
But I knew that the danger was going to start again.
And Hannah was correct that this truth she negotiated with
(08:37):
Nicholas was going to give her and Bailey some safety,
but she was also right that it was not going
to be permanent. I really like the idea when characters
are always as smart as we think they are, that
we don't find out they were wrong to trust themselves.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I love what you just shared, the idea that characters
are as smart as we think they are. Yeah. I
don't know that I've ever been able to articulate it,
but I feel disappointed in books oftentimes when the characters
do things that are are not as smart as I
think they are.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I am with you because I also feel like then
you feel the hand of the writer. It's almost like
a cheat. Yes, don't tell me all of these things
about someone that I think I know, because I actually
think for me, the books I love the most are
books that make me feel like I'm in a really
great conversation with people.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I want to know better.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And that might be that I want to know them
better because I don't understand why they're behaving badly, but
I still I'm in it with them.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Are you a quote person? By any chance? I'm a
huge quote person, So I'm a really big quote person too, Laura,
and I always felt really silly because a lot of
quotes are platitudes.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And then I became Glorious Dynham's fellow, and she had
an entire book of quotes that she loved, and I
talked to her about it and she was like, the
quotes exist for a reason, to inspire us, and she
made me feel not silly. Tell me about your love
of quotes.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So I owe a large part of the last thing
he told me to Gloria Steinem because of one.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Of her quotes.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So, like, you're saying, this is like giving me the chills.
But she has a quote to powerphraeze it badly, in
which she says it's so important to watch women become
the hero of their own lives, and that motivated the
entire storytelling of this book and the sequel. The first
time I saw him, all the way back in two
(10:38):
thousand and three, I watched and learned about Enron. I
was fascinated by it. And for any listeners who aren't
familiar with that, it was a real financial scandal in
which the CEO and all these people went down for
essentially a Ponzi scheme in lying to the public and
all sorts of embezzlement, and the wife of the CEO
(10:59):
said on the Today Show, my husband's done nothing wrong.
And I become fascinated by this idea of putting aside
whether she believed that. What if a woman really believed that?
But I wanted her to believe that and be correct,
And I only wanted to tell the story if and
when I could figure out how she was the hero
(11:20):
of her own life in response, and so I didn't
put pens and paper until twenty eleven. But it was
that quote by Gloria Steinem.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I actually didn't know that quote from her. It sort
of feels like it encapsulates almost the entire mission of
Reese's Book Club. Yeah, was there a quote that you
thought of during this sequel during the writing?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
That's such a great question.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, there's two.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I would say one is a quote that lives on
my desk that has more to do with writing in general.
For anyone that is trying to write el. Doctor has
a quote that it's like driving a car at night.
You only need to see as far out as your headlights,
or you can only see if you're being honest with
the sense of discovery, you only see the next twenty pages,
(12:06):
let's call it. And that really is hugely helpful to
remind myself because I don't map out. I really am
in that sense of conversation and discovery, certainly in the
early drafts. The quote that has the most influence is
actually from a poem that's a Harriet Selena poem at
the beginning of the book that I love so deeply.
You know, it's funny because I write suspense books, but
(12:28):
at the heart of them are really elements of hope
and love more than sort of despair and revenge. And
this quote was really for me a huge part of
the Hannah Owen love Story, the Nicholas Frank love Story,
the Nicholas Hannah loves Story, the Nicholas Owen love story
for everyone. This was sort of the quote that I
(12:50):
felt was at the heart of the book, which is
maybe one day we'll bump into each other in a
checkout line or quiet car lot and will smile like
we didn't shatter each other once, like we didn't make
an unholy mess of love. So that is from that
really wonderful poet from a poem of hers called a
(13:13):
prayer for future us.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A moment of silence for that quote, right Ooh does
it do you feel that like from your past relationships
or past life?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Did it hit you?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
That really hit me?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I mean, I think I think there are so many
ways that we never say goodbye. And I think Hannah's
belief in Owen and Hannah's belief in what her and
Bailey's future needed to be really really popped that feeling
(13:52):
back to the surface for me.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm so excited to dive in with everybody. Laura, thank you,
and I can't wait to talk to you at the
end of the month.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh, I can't wait too. I'm really I'm so happy
to be a part of the book club again.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh my god, you are forever our book club Ellie.
Thanks Flora. Honestly, i'd be shocked if you didn't know
Bobby Brown by name, But I am sort of curious
how you know her. Maybe you were like me and
you snuck into your mom's vanity and discovered Bobby Brown
(14:30):
makeup for the first time. Or maybe you're obsessed with
Jones Road beauty and swear by her miracle balm. Maybe
you've read one or several of the nine books that
she's written about beauty, or maybe she's popped up on
your TikTok feed. However she's entered your world. She's definitely
shown up as Bobby completely, unapologetically herself, no shrinking, no
(14:53):
chasing trends, no compromising who she is to fit the moment.
And I love that I heard she was writing a
memoir titled Still Bobby. I knew she had to be
on Bookmarked. This book is so much about what it
really means to stay true to yourself through every chapter
of your life. And if you've ever found yourself thinking
(15:13):
about what your next evolution might be, you're in exactly
the right place. Let's turn the page with Bobby Brown.
Hi Bobby, Welcome to the club.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You have published many, many books, but recently you published
your first memoir and it's called Still Bobby. I feel
like this is the first time that you've turned the
lens fully inward in one of your books, and so
I want to go back to the very very beginning
of your story. What is the first memory that you
have of reading?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh, my god, first memory is being read too by
my grandparents, my parents. And you know, it's so interesting
because I have really gotten into reading more from listening.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Do you have any audiobooks that you listen to this
year that really stick out to you. I just finished
Unreasonable Hospitality, and I really liked that one.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And whose book is that?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
It's the founder of eleven Madison Park Gadera, And so
it's all about like how to make every interaction and
every person feel warmer. So, for instance, he said that
you can have the best meal in the world, and
then if you don't give them the check the right way,
everything is ruined. And so he started this thing where
(16:35):
all of his weight staff will take like a beautiful
licur to the table with the check put the check
down and say it's been such a pleasure getting to
know you all. Please enjoy as much as you'd like.
And then they leave and it's like He's like, then
everyone leaves happy.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Okay, that's you know, it's all about the touches. And
so that book is called Unreasonable Hospitality.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, I think you'd love it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, I think I would like it too. I read
Keith McNally's book, which was quite the memoir, you know,
because I also love listening to people's stories and how
they do certain things. You know. I loved in a
Garden's book that I read this year, you know, because
you never think that people have this journey. You think
(17:22):
everything's easy, and it's really not. It's really not.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's a really good way of putting it. I think
we learn that about you in your memoir. Why did
you decide to write it now because you've been a
huge success for a long time.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, truthfully, you know, I wasn't ready to write a memoir.
I didn't think that it was my time, you know.
I always thought memoirs were kind of when you're done
doing what you're doing, and I'm just in the middle
of it. But I was convinced that my story and
telling my story how I do things, how I think,
will help other people on their journeys. And so much
(17:59):
of what I do is to help and empower people
to be a better version of themselves. And you know,
I didn't have a playbook. I didn't know how to
be an entrepreneur. I didn't know how to be a
freelance makeup artist. I certainly didn't know how to be
a wife or a mother. I just kind of figured
it out along the way. So I just started writing
(18:20):
this book and it was, you know, a combination of
stories that were connected and made me understand a lot
about myself.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I was curious about the title still Bobby, because it
indicates to me, at least, that you're still that same
girl from Will Met Illinois.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Well, I mean that is pretty much what it meant,
because I, you know, talked to a ghostwriter for a
lot of the book, and I would just tell these
stories one by one. He just kept saying, oh my god, wow,
oh wow, oh wow, oh wow, and I'm like yeah.
But then I go home to my kids, my husband,
and you know, and I'm like, take off all that stuff,
and I'm just I'm still Bobby.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm so curious about that experience working with a ghostwriter
or co writer, because I can't imagine plumbing through my
history with somebody else. Were there are moments that you
thought about differently after you told him the story?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well? Absolutely, And he's the one that really started to
make me realize how much of what I am and
how I figured out things came from my Papa Sam,
or my aunt Dallas, or my dad or my mom.
And I saw how so many things were connected, and
you know, a little bit of my naivete, even though
(19:41):
my husband thinks my naivete is fearlessness.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Oh you know, I love hearing you talk about how
you built your businesses and all the synchronicity in your life,
which I'm going to ask you about later. But I
have to say I get chills when you talk about
your husband because you guys have the kind of love
that I think people are searching for. You have something
so special.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You know, it's a it's I feel very lucky, and
it's a it's very comfortable. Like being with my husband
for me is just when I first met him, it
was the piece of the puzzle that I was missing,
and didn't realize it before I met my husband. I
was had the same boyfriend for twelve years and that
was from eighteen to thirty and when we broke up,
(20:28):
I just I was lost, you know, I was lost
ephen before that. And when I met Steven, it was
just this missing piece of the puzzle. And it's been
thirty seven years, and you know, we neither of us
had a roadmap of what and how to live our life.
And trust me, when he said let's move to New Jersey,
I was like, what huh? And then I'm like, okay,
(20:52):
you know, because we both really liked just more of
a normal, regular life and so I'm lucky to have
both sides of me. But I really, you know, I'm
most happy about my normal life.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I'm really curious about the writing process for you. I've
never written a memoir, and I imagine it to be
like brutal therapy over and over again. It feels so vulnerable.
What was the first chapter or scene that you wrote down?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
First of all, I don't type, Okay, I don't know
how to type. So the process is I spent a
lot of hours on the phone with Travis, who was
the you know, my my ghost writer, and I enjoyed.
He was so easy to talk to. He didn't really
know much about makeup or beauty. He's just a regular
guy who was married and eventually at a baby during
(21:46):
this process. Oh wow, he just he was very curious,
asked a lot of questions and remembered my conversation. So,
you know, remember when you said this, Oh, that's why
you figure out how to do this. So he helped
me connect a lot of the dots, or a lot
of the tunnels, because you realize so much about your
life is like a tunnel where you've been, where you're going,
(22:09):
and ultimately who you really want to be. He would
interview me and then he would start to share some
of the writings and I would read it, but I
would have to print it out because I don't type,
so I couldn't, you know, make changes. I would print
it out and I would take a pen and I
would sit there and I would you know, edit. Then
(22:31):
i'd take a screenshot and I send it back to him,
and then he would put all the changes in and
send it back to me.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
That's how that's my process. And I figured out that
was the easiest thing to do, and after the book
was almost finished, my husband pretty much did the same thing,
even though he knows how to type, and it was
a printed manuscript, and he literally took his pen and
I had to hand the manuscript to my two assistants
(23:01):
who had to, you know, put all of his things
in and then give me a new copy. And I
would have to read it to see what. You know,
how comfortable I was, and you know, and how lucky
was I to meet this man who has been my
greatest supporter, the father of my children and my partner
and everything I do, and also the ultimate guy that
(23:22):
read word by word every word in that book, making
sure I didn't say things that I would regret.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It was quite a process I can't imagine. And also,
I mean, you built this empire helping other women see
themselves clearly like you did make up for Naomi Campbell
and Cindy Crawford and Anna wintrn Keith Richards even which
is wild. But memoir is the opposite. It's about learning
(23:49):
to see yourself. What felt different about telling your own
story versus shaping how the world and these like iconic
people see themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, you know, and I think about my childhood and
growing up. I feel very lucky that I had these
two parents who were not perfect, but who is, and
they gave me so much. They gave me the gift
of love. They gave me the ability to work hard.
And when I started writing about them and writing about
(24:20):
my mom's mental illness and the things my dad was
going through, and I have a brother who had mental illness,
like it was really hard to write about, and it
was I had to stop and ask myself, did I
block out all this bad stuff or did I just
process it and move on? And I really do believe
(24:42):
that I didn't block it out. I felt it, but
I also was able to move on because you have
to separate yourself from what someone else is going through
and be there for a support.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I read an interview that you did with Elvis Duran
in The Marning and it said that you actually teared
up talking about your mother in law because you're so
close with your family. Out of all the people, what
about your relationship with her made you emotional.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
My mother in law, Evelyn, mother to four kids, just
a very simple woman who just loved her family and
me unconditionally. She really did, and she was not impressed
that I was Bobby Brown, you know, celebrity. She was
proud of me. But what impressed her was the good
(25:38):
person I was and how much I loved her son,
and what a good mother I was, and she just
it was such a she was just easy to be around.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I loved in the interview you said, she'd say,
come over here, sit down, have a piece of chocolate.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Life is sweet exactly. And she always said to me,
whenever you have a fight with my son, you're right.
I'm taking your side. You're right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's so rare.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, it is so rare for a mother in law.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, when did you tell your friends and family that
you were going to be writing a memoir? And what
was that conversation like? And also, you're so close with
your kids. Were they okay with it?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You know, they were okay with it. My kids are
just honestly, I don't know what they really think. I
know they're proud of me. I know I'm annoying to them,
and I also know, just like anyone who's so busy
and traveled so much, I am sure there were plenty
of times where they felt that Mom's not paying attention
to me. You know, I look, I did the absolute
(26:44):
best I could. So I think my kids, I don't
even know if they've all read the book. I don't know.
They said they did, and I had them read certainly
parts that they were in before I sent it in
because I didn't want them to feel uncomfortable. And one
of the daughter in laws did read it and did
(27:04):
say to me, maybe you shouldn't say that, because maybe
you know he might get upset if you say say this,
or you mentioned this son twenty times and you only
mentioned this son three times or something, so you know,
I have my little support team around me.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I mean, it sounds like it was really a family
project between your husband and your kids and your daughter
in laws.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I mean I think they read it because I insisted
I did, and especially this one daughter in law, I
know she would tell me exactly what she thought, not
what she thought I wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Bobby, I think the outside perspective, especially even before reading
your memoir, that people have. One of the words they
would use is that you're unflappable. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
No? No, I mean I think I am resilient. I
think I can had a whole lot. I'm a good student,
but I'm also a really good sport, So I do
things that I don't necessarily have the energy to do
or the patience to do, but I know it's my
job and so I do it. I do reach points
(28:18):
where I'm like up to here and I need a break.
So no, if you know me, especially if you're my
husband or my kids, they see me flab.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
As someone who's experienced great success in many areas of
her life. You chose to open your memoir with a
moment in your career that was really challenging and almost
a bit of a heartbreak. I would say, what kind
of tone did you want to set for the reader
by opening with that?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You know that should happens. You know, things happen to
all of us, and it's what you do with it,
like how you how you think about it. And my
dad always taught me you can't always control the circumstances. However,
you can control your attitude. And it is really true.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Is there anything that was cut in the editing process
that you were kind of dying for readers to hear.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
A lot of things were cut in the editing process
because I didn't want people to hear. So really, you know,
I didn't want people to hear because I realized, you know,
I didn't need to say all the junk that I
felt people did or acted to me, or or upset me.
(29:42):
It's easier to say we parted ways, she left the company.
I didn't go into how I would communicate to a
dear friend.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
So was your thought process, I'm going to write everything
as is and then take things out?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, I think I wrote it as I thought at
the time, but then when you reread it and have
a chance to look at it again. And I sent
a bunch of the chapters to different people in my
life and I had them read it, and it was
really important for me to get their opinion. And only
one person said, are you sure you want to put
(30:22):
that in the book? And I said yes, and I
put it in the book, which is a lot of
the tough times at este later.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I sort of think, hearing you, that's maybe part of
your resilience. It's not easy to not say all the things,
especially after the fact years later.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And it was really important for me that people did
not think I was angry, bitter, hurt. I was at first.
I had a lot of those emotions, and that is
part of the process, but I learned how to process things,
I learned how to let go of things, and I
(31:03):
just accepted other things. And then I just evolved into
the person I wanted to be now. And you know,
happy that I had those experiences because it has made
me a better person.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
A few months ago, I got to do an episode
on Here about celebrity memoirs with Chelsea Davantes and Jeff Hiller,
and Chelsea said something that really stuck with me, and
she said, celebrity memoirs. She's read so many, and she
said they taught her really practical, tangible things that she
otherwise wouldn't have known, like how to get an agent,
(31:40):
how to write a script. And I'm wondering, you know,
a lot of people don't know that after and they
will if they read the book. But after your time
at Bobby Brown, you became a coach, and I can't
imagine that there are certain things you are trying to
instill in people and inspire them to do writing this.
(32:01):
Is there anything you really wanted people to take away
from the book? What did you want them to learn?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Well, it's been so interesting. Who has stopped me and
just told me what the book meant to them. I've
had a bunch of people that said, oh my god,
I loved your book so much. I bought them for
my three kids who are in college or just out
of college, because I want them to see your grit
and see how you figured it out and how you
kept pushing. And that made me happy. And a woman
(32:30):
in London came up to me and said, I was
really depressed. I was in political office for over thirteen
years and I lost and I had no idea what
I was going to do. I read your book and
now I realize I could reinvent myself too, So I
mean things like that makes me feel great.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, that's amazing to hear, especially the reinvention piece, because
that is so at the heart of everything you've done.
One of the things I took away from your book
was your relationship with the word no. And you have
this line where you say, essentially having a child made
you better at saying no. Bobby, this is my life's
(33:13):
work to learn how to say no. How did having
a kid change your relationship with that?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Because I realized I would rather be home with my
kid in my robe, my ponytail and my hair than
being at some dinner party, fabulous, something that that I
would just rather be home and be comfortable. So that
that is that has helped a lot, and I find
you know, you can imagine my inbox on a daily basis,
(33:43):
where people in flight me to things they want to
honor me, Like it just it's so much and it
feels so good when you finally say means a lot,
but I'm unable to or I can't, you know, it's like, yes,
it feels good. It's it's like the saying that I
always see an instagram, I want to be invited, but
I don't want to go.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
What's your matrix for that? Is it a gut instinct
like a gut yes or a gut no.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Sometimes I struggle, right, sometimes I struggle. And by the way,
every decision I make to accept something comes with a
lot of baggage, right, I mean I learned early on
when they say we want to honor you, and it's
so nice, that's great, But I have to raise money,
I have to share all the social I have to
get a blowout, I have to dress up, I have
(34:31):
to write a speech, like there's all those things that
go with it. So that has allowed me to say
I'm only gonna do it if it really matters to me.
I have to just think about what happens when I
say yes. And by the way, anyone starting on their career,
you got to say yes to everything I did. Yeah,
I said yes to everything. But now, at this point
(34:54):
of my career, saying no is really nice.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Well, you were also so working and mothering throughout the nineties,
and you right that having it all actually meant saying no,
which I'd never heard before. What do you think gets
missed in the conversations about whether women can have families
and careers?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You know, I think everyone thinks, or a lot of
people think that things has to be perfect. And I
don't know what perfect means, right, I don't know what
perfect means. I think having it all means you can
do more than one thing at a time. Yes, you work,
and you're a mother that definitely fits in together. You
(35:40):
can have a great relationship with your husband or a boyfriend.
You can also figure out how you're going to take
care of yourself, and you're going to be able to
have friends. Nothing's perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I have one more question about no, because when
you split with Estae Lauder, you said your relationship with
no shifted and it became a frustration and a pain point.
What is your relationship with no like today? It's empowering,
you know, it's empowering. And I do have a tendency
(36:13):
to say no now right away, and my husband gets
really no, he gets upset with me. It's always no,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
He says, maybe I do. So I've learned to say,
what do you want to do? And the more I
ask him and he says, I don't know, then he
wants to know what I want to do. But if
I say no right away, it doesn't go well. So
I've learned to not throw it out there right away.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Part of your beautiful relationship with him is you honor him.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It sounds yeah, you know what you have to right
and people always say like how and why are you
guys so happily married? Well, A, we work on it
and we enjoy each other's company, and you know what
you have to give a little like you know, I
know I piss him off. I know I do, and
he knows he pisses me off. But we try to
figure out things that are not such a big deal
(37:07):
and just give into it, like he came home the
other day and I have an organizational problem. I when
I'm stressed, I love things organized. And after Thanksgiving, and
you know, we hosted a lot of people, my kitchen
was a disaster. So we went away after Thanksgiving and
I just hired an organizer who happens to be my neighbor.
(37:29):
But she redid the entire kitchen and I didn't tell him,
and honestly, I thought he was going to kill me,
but he just said to the organizer, if it makes
my wife happy, it's okay. However, I don't want to
have to take a thing out to find nuts. And
I'm like, all right, we'll work around this. We'll work
around this. We got this.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
That's so funny. Kitchens are really hard to organize because
usually the things that look nice are not utilitarian.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Right, And I see, like, I don't know if it's
Cloe or Kim Kardashian's kitchen when you see it on Instagram,
and I'm like, oh my god, like it looks like,
you know, it looks like you know, a photograph. This
doesn't even well.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
The home edit is the best of the best.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
They're incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, was it so fun to write your love story down.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I don't know if it was fun. I mean, I
love I love our I love our love story because
it was really magical. One of my nephews told me
I kind of almost ruined his life because he thought
that's the way he should meet his wife. It's like instant,
and now he's happily married. It took him a while
(38:39):
to find the perfect woman. You know, he really held out,
but he said he always thought it was going to happen,
just like it happened with me and his uncle Steve.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
That's so sweet. What do you think is the key
to your partnership after all of these years.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
He's smarter than I am, he's tougher than I am,
And I really depend on his opinion because I am
someone that you know, I kind of I'm very entrepreneurial.
I could just kind of go like and oh that
makes sense that and he's like, wait, slow down, just
slow down. But he also says, why not, let's go there,
(39:19):
So you know, it just works.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
As I'm getting older, I'm realizing that friendship is really
important in partnership, and I think I undervalued it. Is
there anything that you would tell people to value more
as they're looking for their partners or even early on
in their marriages.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, you know you need your posse. Your posse are
people that you can just call and say, hey, what's
going on? You have no agenda, just you know, checking in.
And they're the same people you can call where god forbid,
you get a bad report from the doctor, or something's
happening to your family member. You need people that you
can call that will stop what they're doing and listen
(39:59):
to you. That's a relationship that takes time to develop,
and it has to be two sided. You can't always
be the one asking for help and vice versa. I
think that's important. Find your posse for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
You have all these moments of huge synchronicity in your life.
Will you share the story about the elevator and how
it changed everything?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I have a couple of elevators stories, but I
assume you're thinking about the time I was in the
elevator that I said hello to a girl and I
asked her what she did and she totally she worked
for a cosmetics manufacturer. And I said, I was looking
for someone to make a lipstick, and she gave me
her card and they've made my first lipstick.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And there is one more story about how you got
on the Today Show that feels like it's very synchronous.
Is that worth the right word?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah. Well, I was on a book tour for my
first book. It was the very last appearance I had
to do, and it was Nieman Marcus and the Encircle Club,
the Fancy Ladies Club, and I finished my makeup demonstration
and I started answering people's questions and there was one
lady in the back of the room that raised her
(41:24):
hand and she asked me out of the blue, are
you Jewish? And I said I am. As a matter
of fact, I said why, She said, is a Jewish girl.
You've done so well and I wonder if there's anything
else you want to do And I said, hmm, I
don't know. I'd like to be a regular on a
Today Show. And she said, honey, my grandson is Jeff Zucker,
(41:46):
who was the executive producer of the Today Show. And
that's how I got on the Today Show from Grandma Fran.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Did you realize at the time that all these moments
were going to be so life changing?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
No? No, I mean I met my first agent on
the beach in Nantucket when her daughter was playing with
one of my sons, and I asked her what she did.
I still ask people what they do. You never know,
you find a lot of people like right in front
of your nose.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
It kind of reminds me of the Ina Garten quote
that I just realized was Eliza Minelli quote be ready
when luck happens.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And I'm someone that I always see possibilities where other
people see obstacles. I see possibilities. Yeah, things happen, and
you've got to pay attention, and you've got to be
able to shift like, oh, that's not working anymore. Let
me try this.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Now that your whole story, your life story is written down,
what do you feel like is next for you? Because
I know your dad started writing children's books later in life,
I was like, huh, maybe she'll write a fiction book
or a children's book. What do you have on your
mind in the new year.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I want to find a little bit more time to
do nothing. And my nothing is never nothing, it's something,
you know, but more leisure time to do something I
want to do that's not scheduled. I don't know when
that will happen, And I have the secret fantasy I'm
not an artist I can't draw, but I want to, like,
(43:19):
go in a room with a big, giant white canvas
and a lot of paint, and I want to just
start putting paint on a canvas. Not for any reason
that yeah, not for any reason.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well a reason. You have it on your heart for
some reason, but we'll find out why. Yeah, that's very cool.
I think a lot of writers write the books that
they needed when they were younger. What do you think
young Bobby, the one who was trying to figure out
what she wanted to do with her life, would have
thought of this book and your story.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
I think she would have loved to hear that things
are possible even if you don't have what you think
you should have, right. I mean, I always thought I
should be better in school. I always thought I should
be a better athlete, I should be this, I should
(44:14):
be intellectual, I should be all these things. And I
realize I don't have to be those things, and that
I have a superpower, which means something that's uniquely you
that you could use to get to where you want
to be, and that there's not a whole lot of rules.
(44:34):
You could make up your own rules. You don't have
to be a rule breaker, but you just need to
be a rule maker.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
How do you find your superpower? You know it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Takes years to figure it out, but you have to
know what you're good at, like mine is definitely being
naive and not being afraid to email someone or ask
a question, or suggest something or try something. You know
and it comes easy to me.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Did you write any of the memoir for young Bobby?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
No? My editor said what would you tell young Bobby?
And so I basically said, would you believe that all
of this would work out? Like, would you ever, in
your wildest dreams think that you would have all this?
And the answer is no. And if I had a
crystal ball and someone said this is going to be
your life, I would look at it and I would say, no, thanks,
(45:28):
it's too complicated for me.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Wait, really, I've never complicated in what way?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
It's just too big? My life is. I have a
very big life, right, I have a very busy, big life.
I've slowly learned how to deal with it. But if
I was young Bobby, I might have said, I don't
want to be traveling like that. I don't want to
be on TV, I don't want to be on the
cover of this I don't want to, you know, it
(45:58):
would be overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
And some of the ways you deal with it, are
they like internal modalities or are they sort of like
life scheduling things?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well? I think you know, I I A lot of
my anxiety is about my calendar and schedule. How am
I going to do this and get there and then
feel good the next day to do that? Right? I mean,
I don't want to go to that cool holiday party
because I won't get home till eleven thirty, And how
(46:31):
am I going to then I'm going to have to
cancel my trainer at seven in the morning or seven thirty.
So oh, and then so when am I going to
do that? And when am I gonna? You know? So
that's my hardest part of my life is my is
how to fit all the things in?
Speaker 1 (46:46):
That makes sense. This is our first episode of the
New Year. Are there any New Year's resolutions or specific
energy aside from throwing a lot of colorful paint on
a white wall that you're carrying into twenty twenty six?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, I say this every year about my hydration, and
I've started already drinking a lot of big giant herbal
teas because that counts and you know, I'm going to
find more time for myself. I don't know how, but
I'm going to find it. So if my assistant is listening,
you're going to help me find it. And you know,
(47:23):
I really after everything that I really put myself through
this I keep saying this semester, but since September, you know,
because it all sounded so doable, no problem, I'll hop
on that plane and go on that show. And my
very last thing I did, I ended up canceling all
the TV shows because I said, you know what, I'm done. Yeah,
(47:46):
I'm just done. So you know, I'm going to find
a little bit more time for me.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
That's really nice part of maybe it's your new era
of no.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Maybe it is my new era of no.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
And were there any any writers or books that you
were inspired by or thought of when you were writing
your memoir?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I mean in a Garden's book, yeah, for sure, you know,
telling her story. And I mean I've read you know,
everyone's book, from Diane Keaton to Susan Sarandon to you
know to Sdi Lauder. I just love reading memoirs and
hearing people's stories.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
It's so cool that you have one. Now, Okay, I
want to do speed read with you, which means we
put sixty seconds on the clock and see just how
many rapid fire literary questions we can get through. Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I'm ready?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Okay. What's at the top of your TBR pile?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I mean, I actually have a couple books next to
my bed. My friend Harley wrote a book about eating carbs,
and it's sitting next to my book. I don't have
a problem eating carbs, but his book is about how
to eat carbs, be healthy and lose weight, so I'm
very interested. And then I also have Jennifer Fisher's book
(49:08):
about not eating carbs next to my bed. She wrote
this beautiful cookbook about eating paleo and these amazing recipes.
So that's you know, that's how conflicted I am on
the two different books. And now I just pinpointed. I
just wrote Unreasonable Hospitality. That's going to be on my list.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Next Yeah, report back, I think you'll love will. What's
your favorite book about beauty?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Hmm? My favorite book about beauty? I mean, besides all
the nine or ten books that I've written, I've read
Elizabeth Arden's book, and Helena Rubinstein and S. D. Lauter
so you know, those are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Do you have a favorite book about business?
Speaker 2 (49:53):
It's an older book with the the guys that started
Celestial Seasonings, the tea company. Years ago. They wrote a
book I think it must have been in the nineties,
and they talked about having this really cool alternative company
and how they lived their life and their company in Colorado.
How dogs would come to the office and they would
(50:16):
all take hiking breaks in the middle of the day.
That really inspired me.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Those were the sleepy time tea guys exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I am drinking their peppermint right now. It's my favorite
peppermint tea.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
What's your favorite book to read to your grandkids?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Oh my god, I have so many. I mean from
when my kids were little. I saved all of the books.
One of my favorite books is Cloudy with the Chance
of Meatballs, where Raine spaghetti and meatballs. That's really funny.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And my last one is what book do you wish
you could read again for the very first time?
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Breaking Night? It's one of my favorite books. It's called
From Homelessness to Harvard. I will read it again. It
was a book about a girl that was brought up
with this amazing family who happened to be both drug
addicts and she survived somehow they both passed away or
(51:08):
had to go to jail or rehab, and she ended
up being homeless. And eventually she figured out a way
through a teacher to apply for something and she got
into Harvard. So she wrote about from Homelessness.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
To Harvard What about?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
It was so memorable for you, just that if you
read this book, you will never complain about anything like
you know her. She's the most positive person. She had
a dollar left and she was starving, and she had
an option. She can either go buy a piece of
pizza for a dollar or get on the subway and
(51:47):
go check out this new school that was opening, and
she chose to go to the school. And that's when
they said you can come here for free, and they
started helping her, and that's when she turned her life on.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Wow, Bobby Brown, I used my Jones Road eyebrow pencil today.
It's still my favorite. So thank you so much for
your time. I'm glad that your book is out in
the world.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
If you want a little bit more from us, come
hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club
on Instagram, serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes
magic and I'm Danielle Robe, ro b a y, come
say hi and DM me And if you want to
go nineties on us, you can call us. Okay, so
our phone line is open, So call us now at
(52:37):
five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.
That's five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.
Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, oh please
share those and questions about the monthly pick, or just
let us know what you think about the episode.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You just heard.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our
next episode, So don't be shy. Give us a ring
and a course. Make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's
book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your shows. Until then, see you in the
next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello, Sunshine and
iHeart Podcasts. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and Me
(53:17):
Danielle Robe. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers
are Matty Foley, Brittany Martinez, and Sarah Schleid. Our production
assistant is Avery Loftis, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder are
the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureene Polo and
Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello, Sunshine Oga Cominwa.
(53:38):
Sarah Kernerman, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hanson are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts.
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
Happy New Year, everybody. I'm so excited to begin a
new chapter with all of you. And what better way
to start anew than to chat with the woman who
reinvented makeup for an entire generation and then when she
was sixty, she reinvented herself. Pretty inspiring, right, But first,
(00:28):
it's the first Tuesday of the month, and you know
what that means. It's time to announce the first Reese's
book Club Pick of twenty twenty six. Reese, let us
know what you're obsessing over this month.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hi, bookmark listeners. Okay, for the first time ever in
Reese's book Club history, we are coming to you with
a sequel.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Our January Reese's book Club pick is The First Time
I Saw Him by Laura Dave.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
That is the sequel to the last Thing he told me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Uh. This book.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It completes Hannah and Bailey's story so beautifully, but it
also feels like it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
A standalone novel.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
They are like two perfect halves of a whole fitting together.
It was such a pleasure to return to these characters
just in time for the next season of the TV show.
The last thing he told me is starring Jennifer Garner.
It has so many moments of family love and you
watch this woman, Hannah come into her power. I think
(01:30):
you're going to finish this in a single day. So
what are you waiting for? Pick up a copy of
the First Time I Saw Him by Laura Dave, Our
January Reese's Book Club Pick for twenty twenty six. Oh
my gosh, it's twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You all know I love a first. Laura Dave just
became the first Reese's Book Club author to have both
a book and it's sequel selected. That's what we on
Bookmark like to call I conic. I mean, obviously I
had questions. Take a listen, Laura Dave, Welcome to the Club.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm welcoming you to the club because this is the
first time that I'm getting to talk to you on
the podcast. But you've really been a part of the club,
even before I was a part of the club. You've
really been here.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh I'm so happy.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
This is the first episode of twenty twenty six. So,
Happy New Year, Happy Pub Day.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Oh thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
This is your second pub day as a Reese's book Club.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Pay it is?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Do you have any pub day traditions that you're continuing?
Do you have new traditions? Is it balloons and champagne?
Is there a ritual dance we need to know about?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
So what's so funny is that for every book I
listen to a song on repeat the entire time I'm
writing the book. And so I have a little pub
day tradition which is when I wake up, the first
thing I do is listen to that song, and then
I always try to take a walk. Listening to music
or taking a walk with a friend is my happy place.
So that's sort of how I start pub day to
(02:58):
sort of ground everything, and then it's off to the races.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's so nice. You know what's funny is every time
I date a new man and I say like, okay,
I'm going on a walk with a friend, They're like,
I don't understand these walking dates. Yes, they don't do them.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
They don't do them. You know, it's so funny. Kate Bear,
the poet, has this incredible poem in her new collection,
in which she talks about I'm going to paraphrase badly,
but basically what you're saying like men cannot understand the
way we as women communicate and what that gives us,
(03:34):
and they're always going to be outside of it, not
quite understanding.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
You know, spotif.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
There's something about women friendships that's so healing and magical
and walk and now I've read that walking and talking
at the same time is like you know how they
say to do all those brain exercises, It's like the
best brain exercise you can do because you're activating two
things at once. So you can tell all those men
that you're the next guy who doesn't know what you're doing,
(04:01):
you tell him that be like I'm protecting my brain
from dementia.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yes, I am doing brain exercises exactly. So when you
published the first book, you listened to If I Should
Fall Behind by Bruce Springsteen. That was the song, Yes,
what was the song you had on loop for the sequel?
Speaker 4 (04:20):
So for the sequel it was Cardigan on Folklore. I
know I'm not alone in my love of that album
and that song. That wonderful artist Tota Swift. The last
verse became for me like a siren call for Hannah
Hall who you know, if the first novel, the last
thing he told me was really about Hannah figuring out
(04:41):
the question that was at the center of the book,
which is what are you willing to do for the
people you love? The second book is really about belief
and salvation and what are you willing to do for
a second chance? And that last verse it felt to
me like it was her sort of screaming into the
void that she knew this man and she knew her
(05:03):
family in a way that no one else could. It's
that same position of strength that she knew the end
of the story and she was going to take us there.
So it was a really wonderful song to spend. You know,
thirty thousand listens to.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And listening to music doesn't distract you from writing? Does
it become almost a part of the rhythm? Can you
explain to me.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
That's such a good way that's say it. It becomes rhythmic.
So for me, like one of the best compliments is
when a reader reaches out and says, I could not
put this down. It gave me relief from xxx whatever's
going on in their life. And to sort of hold
on to that propulsion. I do think it's like a rhythm,
and to the point that when I'm listening to the
(05:48):
song on repeat, I stop it wherever I've stopped writing
that day, and the next day I pick up exactly
where I left off. To me, it creates One of
the things I do as I'm writing is when I edit,
I read out loud. No one's in the room but me,
but as a way to make sure that it's a
story that feels like it's being read to you out loud,
(06:10):
which is almost what a song is. It's a story
that you're listening to out loud. Every book I find
that song, and every book I start with like a
playlist of songs that I think are contenders or that
I'm listening to when I do the research, and then
it always just narrows down and it's something like with Cardigan,
it's a verse that speaks to me. It's a line
(06:32):
that speaks to me, and I'm like, oh, this is
the siren call of this story.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
That makes sense, because something I love about this series
in particular is how much meaning and power you pack
into even just a handful of words, as short and
as powerful as possible. Give us the plot of the
first time I saw him.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Okay, here we go.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Okay, The first time I saw him picks up precisely
where the last thing he told me left us off.
We're in the design center with Hannah Hall and Owen.
Her husband has returned after five years on the run,
and she knows, even if she doesn't know why yet,
(07:14):
it's because she and Bailly are once again in danger,
and she's about to unearth all the reasons why that
is and hit this relentless race to get herself and
her daughter to safety again.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And so confirming that we are jumping five years ahead,
because at the end of the first book we don't
really know where we're headed.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
We don't know, so at the end of the at
the first book it says maybe five years later, maybe
eight years later, maybe ten years later. And when we
open the second book, we are five years in the future,
and we revisit that scene and now we see it
from Owen's point of view, and that propels us into the.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Action how'd you choose five years?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
So for me, it's really about Bailey, and I really
liked the eye idea of rejoining her in early adulthood.
Those years between your late teen years in your early
twenties are so important for how we form ourselves as adults,
and Owen has missed that, and Hannah has been present
(08:17):
for it. So that was a big piece of it.
And the other piece was, you know, so many readers
reached out after the first book and said, like, well,
what happens next? What happens next? And I was so
surprised because I thought that was the end of the story.
But I knew that the danger was going to start again.
And Hannah was correct that this truth she negotiated with
(08:37):
Nicholas was going to give her and Bailey some safety,
but she was also right that it was not going
to be permanent. I really like the idea when characters
are always as smart as we think they are, that
we don't find out they were wrong to trust themselves.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I love what you just shared, the idea that characters
are as smart as we think they are. Yeah. I
don't know that I've ever been able to articulate it,
but I feel disappointed in books oftentimes when the characters
do things that are are not as smart as I
think they are.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I am with you because I also feel like then
you feel the hand of the writer. It's almost like
a cheat. Yes, don't tell me all of these things
about someone that I think I know, because I actually
think for me, the books I love the most are
books that make me feel like I'm in a really
great conversation with people.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I want to know better.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And that might be that I want to know them
better because I don't understand why they're behaving badly, but
I still I'm in it with them.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Are you a quote person? By any chance? I'm a
huge quote person, So I'm a really big quote person too, Laura,
and I always felt really silly because a lot of
quotes are platitudes.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
And then I became Glorious Dynham's fellow, and she had
an entire book of quotes that she loved, and I
talked to her about it and she was like, the
quotes exist for a reason, to inspire us, and she
made me feel not silly. Tell me about your love
of quotes.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
So I owe a large part of the last thing
he told me to Gloria Steinem because of one.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Of her quotes.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So, like, you're saying, this is like giving me the chills.
But she has a quote to powerphraeze it badly, in
which she says it's so important to watch women become
the hero of their own lives, and that motivated the
entire storytelling of this book and the sequel. The first
time I saw him, all the way back in two
(10:38):
thousand and three, I watched and learned about Enron. I
was fascinated by it. And for any listeners who aren't
familiar with that, it was a real financial scandal in
which the CEO and all these people went down for
essentially a Ponzi scheme in lying to the public and
all sorts of embezzlement, and the wife of the CEO
(10:59):
said on the Today Show, my husband's done nothing wrong.
And I become fascinated by this idea of putting aside
whether she believed that. What if a woman really believed that?
But I wanted her to believe that and be correct,
And I only wanted to tell the story if and
when I could figure out how she was the hero
(11:20):
of her own life in response, and so I didn't
put pens and paper until twenty eleven. But it was
that quote by Gloria Steinem.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I actually didn't know that quote from her. It sort
of feels like it encapsulates almost the entire mission of
Reese's Book Club. Yeah, was there a quote that you
thought of during this sequel during the writing?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
That's such a great question.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, there's two.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I would say one is a quote that lives on
my desk that has more to do with writing in general.
For anyone that is trying to write el. Doctor has
a quote that it's like driving a car at night.
You only need to see as far out as your headlights,
or you can only see if you're being honest with
the sense of discovery, you only see the next twenty pages,
(12:06):
let's call it. And that really is hugely helpful to
remind myself because I don't map out. I really am
in that sense of conversation and discovery, certainly in the
early drafts. The quote that has the most influence is
actually from a poem that's a Harriet Selena poem at
the beginning of the book that I love so deeply.
You know, it's funny because I write suspense books, but
(12:28):
at the heart of them are really elements of hope
and love more than sort of despair and revenge. And
this quote was really for me a huge part of
the Hannah Owen love Story, the Nicholas Frank love Story,
the Nicholas Hannah loves Story, the Nicholas Owen love story
for everyone. This was sort of the quote that I
(12:50):
felt was at the heart of the book, which is
maybe one day we'll bump into each other in a
checkout line or quiet car lot and will smile like
we didn't shatter each other once, like we didn't make
an unholy mess of love. So that is from that
really wonderful poet from a poem of hers called a
(13:13):
prayer for future us.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A moment of silence for that quote, right Ooh does
it do you feel that like from your past relationships
or past life?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Did it hit you?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
That really hit me?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I mean, I think I think there are so many
ways that we never say goodbye. And I think Hannah's
belief in Owen and Hannah's belief in what her and
Bailey's future needed to be really really popped that feeling
(13:52):
back to the surface for me.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I'm so excited to dive in with everybody. Laura, thank you,
and I can't wait to talk to you at the
end of the month.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Oh, I can't wait too. I'm really I'm so happy
to be a part of the book club again.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh my god, you are forever our book club Ellie.
Thanks Flora. Honestly, i'd be shocked if you didn't know
Bobby Brown by name, But I am sort of curious
how you know her. Maybe you were like me and
you snuck into your mom's vanity and discovered Bobby Brown
(14:30):
makeup for the first time. Or maybe you're obsessed with
Jones Road beauty and swear by her miracle balm. Maybe
you've read one or several of the nine books that
she's written about beauty, or maybe she's popped up on
your TikTok feed. However she's entered your world. She's definitely
shown up as Bobby completely, unapologetically herself, no shrinking, no
(14:53):
chasing trends, no compromising who she is to fit the moment.
And I love that I heard she was writing a
memoir titled Still Bobby. I knew she had to be
on Bookmarked. This book is so much about what it
really means to stay true to yourself through every chapter
of your life. And if you've ever found yourself thinking
(15:13):
about what your next evolution might be, you're in exactly
the right place. Let's turn the page with Bobby Brown.
Hi Bobby, Welcome to the club.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
You have published many, many books, but recently you published
your first memoir and it's called Still Bobby. I feel
like this is the first time that you've turned the
lens fully inward in one of your books, and so
I want to go back to the very very beginning
of your story. What is the first memory that you
have of reading?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh, my god, first memory is being read too by
my grandparents, my parents. And you know, it's so interesting
because I have really gotten into reading more from listening.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Do you have any audiobooks that you listen to this
year that really stick out to you. I just finished
Unreasonable Hospitality, and I really liked that one.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And whose book is that?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
It's the founder of eleven Madison Park Gadera, And so
it's all about like how to make every interaction and
every person feel warmer. So, for instance, he said that
you can have the best meal in the world, and
then if you don't give them the check the right way,
everything is ruined. And so he started this thing where
(16:35):
all of his weight staff will take like a beautiful
licur to the table with the check put the check
down and say it's been such a pleasure getting to
know you all. Please enjoy as much as you'd like.
And then they leave and it's like He's like, then
everyone leaves happy.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Okay, that's you know, it's all about the touches. And
so that book is called Unreasonable Hospitality.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, I think you'd love it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, I think I would like it too. I read
Keith McNally's book, which was quite the memoir, you know,
because I also love listening to people's stories and how
they do certain things. You know. I loved in a
Garden's book that I read this year, you know, because
you never think that people have this journey. You think
(17:22):
everything's easy, and it's really not. It's really not.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's a really good way of putting it. I think
we learn that about you in your memoir. Why did
you decide to write it now because you've been a
huge success for a long time.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, truthfully, you know, I wasn't ready to write a memoir.
I didn't think that it was my time, you know.
I always thought memoirs were kind of when you're done
doing what you're doing, and I'm just in the middle
of it. But I was convinced that my story and
telling my story how I do things, how I think,
will help other people on their journeys. And so much
(17:59):
of what I do is to help and empower people
to be a better version of themselves. And you know,
I didn't have a playbook. I didn't know how to
be an entrepreneur. I didn't know how to be a
freelance makeup artist. I certainly didn't know how to be
a wife or a mother. I just kind of figured
it out along the way. So I just started writing
(18:20):
this book and it was, you know, a combination of
stories that were connected and made me understand a lot
about myself.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I was curious about the title still Bobby, because it
indicates to me, at least, that you're still that same
girl from Will Met Illinois.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Well, I mean that is pretty much what it meant,
because I, you know, talked to a ghostwriter for a
lot of the book, and I would just tell these
stories one by one. He just kept saying, oh my god, wow,
oh wow, oh wow, oh wow, and I'm like yeah.
But then I go home to my kids, my husband,
and you know, and I'm like, take off all that stuff,
and I'm just I'm still Bobby.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I'm so curious about that experience working with a ghostwriter
or co writer, because I can't imagine plumbing through my
history with somebody else. Were there are moments that you
thought about differently after you told him the story?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well? Absolutely, And he's the one that really started to
make me realize how much of what I am and
how I figured out things came from my Papa Sam,
or my aunt Dallas, or my dad or my mom.
And I saw how so many things were connected, and
you know, a little bit of my naivete, even though
(19:41):
my husband thinks my naivete is fearlessness.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Oh you know, I love hearing you talk about how
you built your businesses and all the synchronicity in your life,
which I'm going to ask you about later. But I
have to say I get chills when you talk about
your husband because you guys have the kind of love
that I think people are searching for. You have something
so special.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
You know, it's a it's I feel very lucky, and
it's a it's very comfortable. Like being with my husband
for me is just when I first met him, it
was the piece of the puzzle that I was missing,
and didn't realize it before I met my husband. I
was had the same boyfriend for twelve years and that
was from eighteen to thirty and when we broke up,
(20:28):
I just I was lost, you know, I was lost
ephen before that. And when I met Steven, it was
just this missing piece of the puzzle. And it's been
thirty seven years, and you know, we neither of us
had a roadmap of what and how to live our life.
And trust me, when he said let's move to New Jersey,
I was like, what huh? And then I'm like, okay,
(20:52):
you know, because we both really liked just more of
a normal, regular life and so I'm lucky to have
both sides of me. But I really, you know, I'm
most happy about my normal life.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I'm really curious about the writing process for you. I've
never written a memoir, and I imagine it to be
like brutal therapy over and over again. It feels so vulnerable.
What was the first chapter or scene that you wrote down?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
First of all, I don't type, Okay, I don't know
how to type. So the process is I spent a
lot of hours on the phone with Travis, who was
the you know, my my ghost writer, and I enjoyed.
He was so easy to talk to. He didn't really
know much about makeup or beauty. He's just a regular
guy who was married and eventually at a baby during
(21:46):
this process. Oh wow, he just he was very curious,
asked a lot of questions and remembered my conversation. So,
you know, remember when you said this, Oh, that's why
you figure out how to do this. So he helped
me connect a lot of the dots, or a lot
of the tunnels, because you realize so much about your
life is like a tunnel where you've been, where you're going,
(22:09):
and ultimately who you really want to be. He would
interview me and then he would start to share some
of the writings and I would read it, but I
would have to print it out because I don't type,
so I couldn't, you know, make changes. I would print
it out and I would take a pen and I
would sit there and I would you know, edit. Then
(22:31):
i'd take a screenshot and I send it back to him,
and then he would put all the changes in and
send it back to me.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
That's how that's my process. And I figured out that
was the easiest thing to do, and after the book
was almost finished, my husband pretty much did the same thing,
even though he knows how to type, and it was
a printed manuscript, and he literally took his pen and
I had to hand the manuscript to my two assistants
(23:01):
who had to, you know, put all of his things
in and then give me a new copy. And I
would have to read it to see what. You know,
how comfortable I was, and you know, and how lucky
was I to meet this man who has been my
greatest supporter, the father of my children and my partner
and everything I do, and also the ultimate guy that
(23:22):
read word by word every word in that book, making
sure I didn't say things that I would regret.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
It was quite a process I can't imagine. And also,
I mean, you built this empire helping other women see
themselves clearly like you did make up for Naomi Campbell
and Cindy Crawford and Anna wintrn Keith Richards even which
is wild. But memoir is the opposite. It's about learning
(23:49):
to see yourself. What felt different about telling your own
story versus shaping how the world and these like iconic
people see themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, you know, and I think about my childhood and
growing up. I feel very lucky that I had these
two parents who were not perfect, but who is, and
they gave me so much. They gave me the gift
of love. They gave me the ability to work hard.
And when I started writing about them and writing about
(24:20):
my mom's mental illness and the things my dad was
going through, and I have a brother who had mental illness,
like it was really hard to write about, and it
was I had to stop and ask myself, did I
block out all this bad stuff or did I just
process it and move on? And I really do believe
(24:42):
that I didn't block it out. I felt it, but
I also was able to move on because you have
to separate yourself from what someone else is going through
and be there for a support.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I read an interview that you did with Elvis Duran
in The Marning and it said that you actually teared
up talking about your mother in law because you're so
close with your family. Out of all the people, what
about your relationship with her made you emotional.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
My mother in law, Evelyn, mother to four kids, just
a very simple woman who just loved her family and
me unconditionally. She really did, and she was not impressed
that I was Bobby Brown, you know, celebrity. She was
proud of me. But what impressed her was the good
(25:38):
person I was and how much I loved her son,
and what a good mother I was, and she just
it was such a she was just easy to be around.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I loved in the interview you said, she'd say,
come over here, sit down, have a piece of chocolate.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Life is sweet exactly. And she always said to me,
whenever you have a fight with my son, you're right.
I'm taking your side. You're right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's so rare.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, it is so rare for a mother in law.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, when did you tell your friends and family that
you were going to be writing a memoir? And what
was that conversation like? And also, you're so close with
your kids. Were they okay with it?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
You know, they were okay with it. My kids are
just honestly, I don't know what they really think. I
know they're proud of me. I know I'm annoying to them,
and I also know, just like anyone who's so busy
and traveled so much, I am sure there were plenty
of times where they felt that Mom's not paying attention
to me. You know, I look, I did the absolute
(26:44):
best I could. So I think my kids, I don't
even know if they've all read the book. I don't know.
They said they did, and I had them read certainly
parts that they were in before I sent it in
because I didn't want them to feel uncomfortable. And one
of the daughter in laws did read it and did
(27:04):
say to me, maybe you shouldn't say that, because maybe
you know he might get upset if you say say this,
or you mentioned this son twenty times and you only
mentioned this son three times or something, so you know,
I have my little support team around me.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I mean, it sounds like it was really a family
project between your husband and your kids and your daughter
in laws.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I mean I think they read it because I insisted
I did, and especially this one daughter in law, I
know she would tell me exactly what she thought, not
what she thought I wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Bobby, I think the outside perspective, especially even before reading
your memoir, that people have. One of the words they
would use is that you're unflappable. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
No? No, I mean I think I am resilient. I
think I can had a whole lot. I'm a good student,
but I'm also a really good sport, So I do
things that I don't necessarily have the energy to do
or the patience to do, but I know it's my
job and so I do it. I do reach points
(28:18):
where I'm like up to here and I need a break.
So no, if you know me, especially if you're my
husband or my kids, they see me flab.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
As someone who's experienced great success in many areas of
her life. You chose to open your memoir with a
moment in your career that was really challenging and almost
a bit of a heartbreak. I would say, what kind
of tone did you want to set for the reader
by opening with that?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
You know that should happens. You know, things happen to
all of us, and it's what you do with it,
like how you how you think about it. And my
dad always taught me you can't always control the circumstances. However,
you can control your attitude. And it is really true.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Is there anything that was cut in the editing process
that you were kind of dying for readers to hear.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
A lot of things were cut in the editing process
because I didn't want people to hear. So really, you know,
I didn't want people to hear because I realized, you know,
I didn't need to say all the junk that I
felt people did or acted to me, or or upset me.
(29:42):
It's easier to say we parted ways, she left the company.
I didn't go into how I would communicate to a
dear friend.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
So was your thought process, I'm going to write everything
as is and then take things out?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
No, I think I wrote it as I thought at
the time, but then when you reread it and have
a chance to look at it again. And I sent
a bunch of the chapters to different people in my
life and I had them read it, and it was
really important for me to get their opinion. And only
one person said, are you sure you want to put
(30:22):
that in the book? And I said yes, and I
put it in the book, which is a lot of
the tough times at este later.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I sort of think, hearing you, that's maybe part of
your resilience. It's not easy to not say all the things,
especially after the fact years later.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And it was really important for me that people did
not think I was angry, bitter, hurt. I was at first.
I had a lot of those emotions, and that is
part of the process, but I learned how to process things,
I learned how to let go of things, and I
(31:03):
just accepted other things. And then I just evolved into
the person I wanted to be now. And you know,
happy that I had those experiences because it has made
me a better person.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
A few months ago, I got to do an episode
on Here about celebrity memoirs with Chelsea Davantes and Jeff Hiller,
and Chelsea said something that really stuck with me, and
she said, celebrity memoirs. She's read so many, and she
said they taught her really practical, tangible things that she
otherwise wouldn't have known, like how to get an agent,
(31:40):
how to write a script. And I'm wondering, you know,
a lot of people don't know that after and they
will if they read the book. But after your time
at Bobby Brown, you became a coach, and I can't
imagine that there are certain things you are trying to
instill in people and inspire them to do writing this.
(32:01):
Is there anything you really wanted people to take away
from the book? What did you want them to learn?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Well, it's been so interesting. Who has stopped me and
just told me what the book meant to them. I've
had a bunch of people that said, oh my god,
I loved your book so much. I bought them for
my three kids who are in college or just out
of college, because I want them to see your grit
and see how you figured it out and how you
kept pushing. And that made me happy. And a woman
(32:30):
in London came up to me and said, I was
really depressed. I was in political office for over thirteen
years and I lost and I had no idea what
I was going to do. I read your book and
now I realize I could reinvent myself too, So I
mean things like that makes me feel great.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, that's amazing to hear, especially the reinvention piece, because
that is so at the heart of everything you've done.
One of the things I took away from your book
was your relationship with the word no. And you have
this line where you say, essentially having a child made
you better at saying no. Bobby, this is my life's
(33:13):
work to learn how to say no. How did having
a kid change your relationship with that?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Because I realized I would rather be home with my
kid in my robe, my ponytail and my hair than
being at some dinner party, fabulous, something that that I
would just rather be home and be comfortable. So that
that is that has helped a lot, and I find
you know, you can imagine my inbox on a daily basis,
(33:43):
where people in flight me to things they want to
honor me, Like it just it's so much and it
feels so good when you finally say means a lot,
but I'm unable to or I can't, you know, it's like, yes,
it feels good. It's it's like the saying that I
always see an instagram, I want to be invited, but
I don't want to go.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
What's your matrix for that? Is it a gut instinct
like a gut yes or a gut no.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Sometimes I struggle, right, sometimes I struggle. And by the way,
every decision I make to accept something comes with a
lot of baggage, right, I mean I learned early on
when they say we want to honor you, and it's
so nice, that's great, But I have to raise money,
I have to share all the social I have to
get a blowout, I have to dress up, I have
(34:31):
to write a speech, like there's all those things that
go with it. So that has allowed me to say
I'm only gonna do it if it really matters to me.
I have to just think about what happens when I
say yes. And by the way, anyone starting on their career,
you got to say yes to everything I did. Yeah,
I said yes to everything. But now, at this point
(34:54):
of my career, saying no is really nice.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Well, you were also so working and mothering throughout the nineties,
and you right that having it all actually meant saying no,
which I'd never heard before. What do you think gets
missed in the conversations about whether women can have families
and careers?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
You know, I think everyone thinks, or a lot of
people think that things has to be perfect. And I
don't know what perfect means, right, I don't know what
perfect means. I think having it all means you can
do more than one thing at a time. Yes, you work,
and you're a mother that definitely fits in together. You
(35:40):
can have a great relationship with your husband or a boyfriend.
You can also figure out how you're going to take
care of yourself, and you're going to be able to
have friends. Nothing's perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I have one more question about no, because when
you split with Estae Lauder, you said your relationship with
no shifted and it became a frustration and a pain point.
What is your relationship with no like today? It's empowering,
you know, it's empowering. And I do have a tendency
(36:13):
to say no now right away, and my husband gets
really no, he gets upset with me. It's always no,
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
He says, maybe I do. So I've learned to say,
what do you want to do? And the more I
ask him and he says, I don't know, then he
wants to know what I want to do. But if
I say no right away, it doesn't go well. So
I've learned to not throw it out there right away.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Part of your beautiful relationship with him is you honor him.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It sounds yeah, you know what you have to right
and people always say like how and why are you
guys so happily married? Well, A, we work on it
and we enjoy each other's company, and you know what
you have to give a little like you know, I
know I piss him off. I know I do, and
he knows he pisses me off. But we try to
figure out things that are not such a big deal
(37:07):
and just give into it, like he came home the
other day and I have an organizational problem. I when
I'm stressed, I love things organized. And after Thanksgiving, and
you know, we hosted a lot of people, my kitchen
was a disaster. So we went away after Thanksgiving and
I just hired an organizer who happens to be my neighbor.
(37:29):
But she redid the entire kitchen and I didn't tell him,
and honestly, I thought he was going to kill me,
but he just said to the organizer, if it makes
my wife happy, it's okay. However, I don't want to
have to take a thing out to find nuts. And
I'm like, all right, we'll work around this. We'll work
around this. We got this.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
That's so funny. Kitchens are really hard to organize because
usually the things that look nice are not utilitarian.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Right, And I see, like, I don't know if it's
Cloe or Kim Kardashian's kitchen when you see it on Instagram,
and I'm like, oh my god, like it looks like,
you know, it looks like you know, a photograph. This
doesn't even well.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
The home edit is the best of the best.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
They're incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, was it so fun to write your love story down.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I don't know if it was fun. I mean, I
love I love our I love our love story because
it was really magical. One of my nephews told me
I kind of almost ruined his life because he thought
that's the way he should meet his wife. It's like instant,
and now he's happily married. It took him a while
(38:39):
to find the perfect woman. You know, he really held out,
but he said he always thought it was going to happen,
just like it happened with me and his uncle Steve.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
That's so sweet. What do you think is the key
to your partnership after all of these years.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
He's smarter than I am, he's tougher than I am,
And I really depend on his opinion because I am
someone that you know, I kind of I'm very entrepreneurial.
I could just kind of go like and oh that
makes sense that and he's like, wait, slow down, just
slow down. But he also says, why not, let's go there,
(39:19):
So you know, it just works.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
As I'm getting older, I'm realizing that friendship is really
important in partnership, and I think I undervalued it. Is
there anything that you would tell people to value more
as they're looking for their partners or even early on
in their marriages.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, you know you need your posse. Your posse are
people that you can just call and say, hey, what's
going on? You have no agenda, just you know, checking in.
And they're the same people you can call where god forbid,
you get a bad report from the doctor, or something's
happening to your family member. You need people that you
can call that will stop what they're doing and listen
(39:59):
to you. That's a relationship that takes time to develop,
and it has to be two sided. You can't always
be the one asking for help and vice versa. I
think that's important. Find your posse for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
You have all these moments of huge synchronicity in your life.
Will you share the story about the elevator and how
it changed everything?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I have a couple of elevators stories, but I
assume you're thinking about the time I was in the
elevator that I said hello to a girl and I
asked her what she did and she totally she worked
for a cosmetics manufacturer. And I said, I was looking
for someone to make a lipstick, and she gave me
her card and they've made my first lipstick.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And there is one more story about how you got
on the Today Show that feels like it's very synchronous.
Is that worth the right word?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah. Well, I was on a book tour for my
first book. It was the very last appearance I had
to do, and it was Nieman Marcus and the Encircle Club,
the Fancy Ladies Club, and I finished my makeup demonstration
and I started answering people's questions and there was one
lady in the back of the room that raised her
(41:24):
hand and she asked me out of the blue, are
you Jewish? And I said I am. As a matter
of fact, I said why, She said, is a Jewish girl.
You've done so well and I wonder if there's anything
else you want to do And I said, hmm, I
don't know. I'd like to be a regular on a
Today Show. And she said, honey, my grandson is Jeff Zucker,
(41:46):
who was the executive producer of the Today Show. And
that's how I got on the Today Show from Grandma Fran.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Did you realize at the time that all these moments
were going to be so life changing?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
No? No, I mean I met my first agent on
the beach in Nantucket when her daughter was playing with
one of my sons, and I asked her what she did.
I still ask people what they do. You never know,
you find a lot of people like right in front
of your nose.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
It kind of reminds me of the Ina Garten quote
that I just realized was Eliza Minelli quote be ready
when luck happens.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And I'm someone that I always see possibilities where other
people see obstacles. I see possibilities. Yeah, things happen, and
you've got to pay attention, and you've got to be
able to shift like, oh, that's not working anymore. Let
me try this.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Now that your whole story, your life story is written down,
what do you feel like is next for you? Because
I know your dad started writing children's books later in life,
I was like, huh, maybe she'll write a fiction book
or a children's book. What do you have on your
mind in the new year.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I want to find a little bit more time to
do nothing. And my nothing is never nothing, it's something,
you know, but more leisure time to do something I
want to do that's not scheduled. I don't know when
that will happen, And I have the secret fantasy I'm
not an artist I can't draw, but I want to, like,
(43:19):
go in a room with a big, giant white canvas
and a lot of paint, and I want to just
start putting paint on a canvas. Not for any reason
that yeah, not for any reason.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well a reason. You have it on your heart for
some reason, but we'll find out why. Yeah, that's very cool.
I think a lot of writers write the books that
they needed when they were younger. What do you think
young Bobby, the one who was trying to figure out
what she wanted to do with her life, would have
thought of this book and your story.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
I think she would have loved to hear that things
are possible even if you don't have what you think
you should have, right. I mean, I always thought I
should be better in school. I always thought I should
be a better athlete, I should be this, I should
(44:14):
be intellectual, I should be all these things. And I
realize I don't have to be those things, and that
I have a superpower, which means something that's uniquely you
that you could use to get to where you want
to be, and that there's not a whole lot of rules.
(44:34):
You could make up your own rules. You don't have
to be a rule breaker, but you just need to
be a rule maker.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
How do you find your superpower? You know it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Takes years to figure it out, but you have to
know what you're good at, like mine is definitely being
naive and not being afraid to email someone or ask
a question, or suggest something or try something. You know
and it comes easy to me.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Did you write any of the memoir for young Bobby?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
No? My editor said what would you tell young Bobby?
And so I basically said, would you believe that all
of this would work out? Like, would you ever, in
your wildest dreams think that you would have all this?
And the answer is no. And if I had a
crystal ball and someone said this is going to be
your life, I would look at it and I would say, no, thanks,
(45:28):
it's too complicated for me.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Wait, really, I've never complicated in what way?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
It's just too big? My life is. I have a
very big life, right, I have a very busy, big life.
I've slowly learned how to deal with it. But if
I was young Bobby, I might have said, I don't
want to be traveling like that. I don't want to
be on TV, I don't want to be on the
cover of this I don't want to, you know, it
(45:58):
would be overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
And some of the ways you deal with it, are
they like internal modalities or are they sort of like
life scheduling things?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well? I think you know, I I A lot of
my anxiety is about my calendar and schedule. How am
I going to do this and get there and then
feel good the next day to do that? Right? I mean,
I don't want to go to that cool holiday party
because I won't get home till eleven thirty, And how
(46:31):
am I going to then I'm going to have to
cancel my trainer at seven in the morning or seven thirty.
So oh, and then so when am I going to
do that? And when am I gonna? You know? So
that's my hardest part of my life is my is
how to fit all the things in?
Speaker 1 (46:46):
That makes sense. This is our first episode of the
New Year. Are there any New Year's resolutions or specific
energy aside from throwing a lot of colorful paint on
a white wall that you're carrying into twenty twenty six?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Well, I say this every year about my hydration, and
I've started already drinking a lot of big giant herbal
teas because that counts and you know, I'm going to
find more time for myself. I don't know how, but
I'm going to find it. So if my assistant is listening,
you're going to help me find it. And you know,
(47:23):
I really after everything that I really put myself through
this I keep saying this semester, but since September, you know,
because it all sounded so doable, no problem, I'll hop
on that plane and go on that show. And my
very last thing I did, I ended up canceling all
the TV shows because I said, you know what, I'm done. Yeah,
(47:46):
I'm just done. So you know, I'm going to find
a little bit more time for me.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
That's really nice part of maybe it's your new era
of no.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Maybe it is my new era of no.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
And were there any any writers or books that you
were inspired by or thought of when you were writing
your memoir?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I mean in a Garden's book, yeah, for sure, you know,
telling her story. And I mean I've read you know,
everyone's book, from Diane Keaton to Susan Sarandon to you
know to Sdi Lauder. I just love reading memoirs and
hearing people's stories.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
It's so cool that you have one. Now, Okay, I
want to do speed read with you, which means we
put sixty seconds on the clock and see just how
many rapid fire literary questions we can get through. Are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I'm ready?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Okay. What's at the top of your TBR pile?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I mean, I actually have a couple books next to
my bed. My friend Harley wrote a book about eating carbs,
and it's sitting next to my book. I don't have
a problem eating carbs, but his book is about how
to eat carbs, be healthy and lose weight, so I'm
very interested. And then I also have Jennifer Fisher's book
(49:08):
about not eating carbs next to my bed. She wrote
this beautiful cookbook about eating paleo and these amazing recipes.
So that's you know, that's how conflicted I am on
the two different books. And now I just pinpointed. I
just wrote Unreasonable Hospitality. That's going to be on my list.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Next Yeah, report back, I think you'll love will. What's
your favorite book about beauty?
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Hmm? My favorite book about beauty? I mean, besides all
the nine or ten books that I've written, I've read
Elizabeth Arden's book, and Helena Rubinstein and S. D. Lauter
so you know, those are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Do you have a favorite book about business?
Speaker 2 (49:53):
It's an older book with the the guys that started
Celestial Seasonings, the tea company. Years ago. They wrote a
book I think it must have been in the nineties,
and they talked about having this really cool alternative company
and how they lived their life and their company in Colorado.
How dogs would come to the office and they would
(50:16):
all take hiking breaks in the middle of the day.
That really inspired me.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Those were the sleepy time tea guys exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I am drinking their peppermint right now. It's my favorite
peppermint tea.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
What's your favorite book to read to your grandkids?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Oh my god, I have so many. I mean from
when my kids were little. I saved all of the books.
One of my favorite books is Cloudy with the Chance
of Meatballs, where Raine spaghetti and meatballs. That's really funny.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And my last one is what book do you wish
you could read again for the very first time?
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Breaking Night? It's one of my favorite books. It's called
From Homelessness to Harvard. I will read it again. It
was a book about a girl that was brought up
with this amazing family who happened to be both drug
addicts and she survived somehow they both passed away or
(51:08):
had to go to jail or rehab, and she ended
up being homeless. And eventually she figured out a way
through a teacher to apply for something and she got
into Harvard. So she wrote about from Homelessness.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
To Harvard What about?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
It was so memorable for you, just that if you
read this book, you will never complain about anything like
you know her. She's the most positive person. She had
a dollar left and she was starving, and she had
an option. She can either go buy a piece of
pizza for a dollar or get on the subway and
(51:47):
go check out this new school that was opening, and
she chose to go to the school. And that's when
they said you can come here for free, and they
started helping her, and that's when she turned her life on.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Wow, Bobby Brown, I used my Jones Road eyebrow pencil today.
It's still my favorite. So thank you so much for
your time. I'm glad that your book is out in
the world.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
If you want a little bit more from us, come
hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club
on Instagram, serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes
magic and I'm Danielle Robe, ro b a y, come
say hi and DM me And if you want to
go nineties on us, you can call us. Okay, so
our phone line is open, So call us now at
(52:37):
five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.
That's five zero one two nine one three three seven nine.
Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, oh please
share those and questions about the monthly pick, or just
let us know what you think about the episode.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You just heard.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our
next episode, So don't be shy. Give us a ring
and a course. Make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's
book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your shows. Until then, see you in the
next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello, Sunshine and
iHeart Podcasts. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and Me
(53:17):
Danielle Robe. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers
are Matty Foley, Brittany Martinez, and Sarah Schleid. Our production
assistant is Avery Loftis, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder are
the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureene Polo and
Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello, Sunshine Oga Cominwa.
(53:38):
Sarah Kernerman, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hanson are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts.
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