March 26, 2025 • 34 mins
Ken Dashow sits down with the iconic Herb Alpert. Discover the fascinating story behind the Tijuana Brass, the creation of A&M Records with Jerry Moss, and the near-miss of signing The Beatles. Herb's musical journey is nothing short of extraordinary!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tikto It's Ken Dash's Beetle Revolution.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Bunk to faith all.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On the radio, Ken Dashouse Beatles Revolution. Glad to be
back on board. Thank you producer Peter for being part
of this journey and talking today with a legend. You know,
we don't just talk beatles. We talk about music the
music business as well. And this is a man who
started out as a giant as a performer and launched
(00:30):
his own record label. It's a little record label you
might have heard of, A and M. He is playing
at Jazz at Lincoln Center April first and second here
in New York City to celebrate his ninetieth birthday. Herb Albert,
Welcome to Ken Dashouse Beatles Revolution.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I've heard a lot about your show. You're popular, man.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hardest part about this interview is not going to be
spending the entire time telling you how awesome you are
and you're saying thanks a lot, But there's a lot
to be thankful for. You're one of those people. The
only other person I know sort of in that world
is Peter Asher, somebody who is a performer, somebody who
is a producer, manager, and then launched this little record
(01:10):
company called A and M Records, And I mean, I
don't even know how to begin. But how do I say, Hey,
thank you for the police, the carpenters, the go Gos,
Joe Cocker, Supertrap, Rick Wakeman, Squeeze, Iggy Pop, Procol Harum,
Suzanne Vegas. I mean, where do I even begin all
of so much of our music is thanks to A
(01:31):
and M Records.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Don't don't forget Quincy Jones, the Great Q.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You are absolutely crabby. The list would be the entire,
the entire alphabet of what you're doing. But it's interesting
when a performer starts in and you see the music
business as a whole. And the interesting thing about A
and M Records to me is Columbia. Back then. CBS
was kind of like the singer songwriter labeled. To me,
it was Dylan, it was singers, Atlantic was blues and
(01:58):
R and B and A them to me was everything
you know, A and M. It was quality, But it
wasn't this music or that music you had the carpenter's
you have sticks, you know, it was whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, we were about music, you know. I recorded for
a major company prior to A and M, and I
didn't like the way I was treated. They treated me
like a number, you know, three aged sixty five two
to take one. You know, I didn't get it. And
then I was listening to a playback of one of
the songs that I did, and I wanted to have
a little bit more bass. So I went over to
the councole and I lifted the bass track up and
(02:32):
the engineer actually he slapped my hand. He said, man,
don't ever do that again. This is a union board
and we can all get in trouble. I said, oh my,
this is not the way it supposed to be. I thought,
if I ever had my own record company, of the
artists first be revolving around the artists and not the
beat of the week. I wanted to, you know, explore
(02:55):
artists that have something magical to say in a different
way of saying it, and that you know, that's what
A and M was all about. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
The thing is, you can't do that, you can't do that, well,
look at the results. You know that all that matters
is the results, And look at the great music and
the great bands that you nurtured and cultivated. Speaking of
great bands and great albums, So this has been a
great year for music. Seeing the Rolling Stones in MetLife Stadium,
seeing Madness and Herbalpert Coming to New York City March
(03:25):
thirty first, Jazz at Lincoln Centered Rose Theater. Your ninetieth
birthday celebration. Congratulations, But again, I just saw Willie Nelson.
He killed it, the Stones, Paul McCartney's touring. Who's stopping?
It's music, who's stopping? Why stop doing something you love?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I think when you do it in an authentic way,
And I think the artists you just mentioned, they're into
it because they're into it. You know. It's not like
they're trying to be more popular and they've had their
moments in the sun, but they love it. They do
it because it's the need for them. I'm absolutely mind
boggled by, you know, the response to me getting together
(04:03):
with the new version of the Tijuana Brass, because, like
you said, I'm March thirty first, on my birthday at
Lincoln Center. I'm going to play this concert and it's
sold out, so we had to add, you know, a
second night. So through the years, I've been playing little
bits of the Tijuana Brass pieces in concert with my wife,
(04:24):
but you know, people wanted to hear the whole thing.
So I'm going to give them the whole thing, and
it's it's gonna be fun. I'm adding musicians to the
group and I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Listen, what do I know. I'm not Ron Delzer, He's
just a longtime friend. You could have played the Beacon
Theater two three nights. I'm telling you you could have.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, Lincoln Center has a little ring to it. Not
like jazz, you know. I think jazz is such an
important art form and we have to support the jazzers.
It's it's really tough out there for the musicians. You
don't have a jazz club here in Los Angeles called Vibrato,
And there's so many young music that are absolutely fantastic
(05:02):
and you never hear of them because it's hard to
get through the maze. You know, there's so many you know,
zeros and ones coming out every day. It's just hard
to get through the maze because radio isn't what it
used to be.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
When you think about your era in the sixties, and
I've gotten to talk with some of the folks at Motown,
which was a thrill. And the thing about radio, it
wasn't as homogenozed. You would get the Beatles you got Motown,
you got herb Alpert track, as a matter of fact,
whip Cream because I did a little homework. I love
this whip Cream number one for eight weeks in nineteen
(05:35):
sixty five. You outsold the Beatles and the Stones with
that album. And yet the first track, Taste of Honey,
which was reinvented sort of by the Beatles, you know,
on their early days, And I started thinking about because
I'm a Beatle geek, that was like the primer to
the world. The Beatles took me everywhere. I found jazz,
I found progressive rock, I found music, I found show tunes.
(05:58):
I found everything through They were my music teachers. But
in looking at what you've done, when I think, Michelle,
all my loving taste up Honey with a little help
for my friends. Oh Bladio bla dah and I love
her and with your Wife with Lannihull, with Brazil sixty
six Fool on the Hill. It's one of the greatest
tracks I ever heard. What were the Beatles to herb
(06:20):
Alpert back in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh well, I get asked a question, is there anything
he would do differently? You know? And the one thing
I would have done differently in nineteen sixty two, wouldn't
the only bill happened and A and M was formed.
There was a chance to sign the Beatles. I would
have signed them, but who knew, you know. The music
they put out in sixty two was completely different from
(06:43):
when they got really in the heart of what they
were just really so. They had such a wide span
of musicality, and George Martin seemed to know how to
corral all that and put it in this proper place.
They were fantastic. I love them to this day.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I've always said, and Stevie van Zandt is my partner
in crime, if you aid and the petty we do
like Beatles shows together and things like that. And as
Stevie always pointed out, they were the first group that evolved,
that started here and then quickly just kept jumping to
go from she Loves You Yeah yeah yeah, to turn
off your mind, relax and float down stream. This is
(07:21):
not dying in two years. Imagine a boy band now
touring for two years and going that's it, We're done touring.
We want to write something deeper and more meaningful. The
managers would have a heart attack and drop dead. You
just you stay in your lane, you do your thing.
And the coolest music that we have in all these
bands that you signed was they didn't just stay in
(07:41):
one place. They evolved. They searched for other things to do.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Oh yeah. And you know when you give a great
artist a chance to stretch out, that's when it happens.
You know, when we heard Kat Stevens for the first time,
I couldn't believe this guy cat in a guitar to
you completely out his authentic way of playing and singing,
and the songs he wrote and the uniqueness in the
(08:06):
rhythms that he chose. He was just special. Like Jerry
and I always wanted to. Like I said before, we
weren't looking for the beat of the week. We wanted
these people that had something uniquely special to say in
their own way. And when I found the Carpenters, you know,
it's not the music that I normally gravitate towards. But
when I heard her sing and Richard, knowing that Richard was,
(08:31):
you know, a fabulous piano player and an arranger, the
two of them together that was it was magic. But
they need the song. It's all about the songs. It's
the melodies. The melodies reign king. You know, it's like
Quincy once said, he said, you could take the two
greatest singers in the world and give them a bad song,
(08:51):
and it's going nowhere.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He's absolutely right. I mean, what a genius, and I
mean his passing was sad, but what a legacy that
he left the world. You know. Well, like you guys
are the gods that created all this. When I think
about all the songs again Melody, you know, and from
Tijuana Taxi to Spanishly to The Lonely Bull. And it's
(09:14):
interesting how McCartney and Lennon all the books that have
written about how they're done. I've learned more about them
from other musicians and things about the songwriting and the inspirations.
Do me a favor, share this story. I read a
story about The Lonely Bull and about how a trip
to Mexico to a bullfight inspired you and created the
(09:35):
song for you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, there was many bullfights to Tijuana in the spring
for about three years. I would do that, and there
was this brass band in the stands that played fanfairs.
Didn't it wasn't Marianci music. I never listened to Marianci music,
but this group of people they were just knowing bad
and then the bull would rush out. But they do
(09:58):
another fanfare of another variation on that one, and then
it was something that just touched me. And I tried
to get the feeling of that afternoon in a song.
And a friend of mine that I was now and
then playing casual dates with him, he was a piano
player salt Lake. He had a song that he played
(10:19):
for me. It didn't sound anything like The Lonely Bull.
He had it like a music box. It was very
kind of a dainty little song. But I loved the melody,
so I took that melody. I changed a little bit
of the structure in the bridge. Didn't take credit for that,
didn't want to. It was his song, but that was
the the canalyst. I didn't realize it was gonna take
(10:42):
me to far away places, but you know, when I
got it was in the top ten. And I got
a letter from a lady in Germany and she said,
dear mister Alpert, thank you for sending me on this
vicarious trip to Tijuana. And I chuckled when I read it. Well,
that's interesting, that various vicarious trips. You know, she was
(11:05):
she got the picture I said, that's the type of
music I want to make. I want to make music
that takes you someplace, that gives you a feeling of it,
and it's it's personal. Whatever it might take one person
into a far away land, might take another person next door.
It doesn't really matter. It's just that it's it's something
that touches look at. I'm almost ninety now. In my
(11:27):
I think all the arts, music, sculpting, painting, acting, poetry,
it's all about a feeling. It's not about how articulate
you are, or how you know the technique that can
raz will dazzle you. It's about the feeling. And there
are a lot of I know, there are a lot
of artists out there that try to impress you with
(11:49):
their you know, their abilities. You know. I'll tell you
a little story. I was dear friends with Jerry Mulligan.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Great saxophone player, sax.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Player, and he was when Bill Clinton was inaugurated for president,
he got ten sax players at the party he was throwing.
I'm not sure what the party was, but ten sax
player and Jerry was one of the sax players. So
I spoke to Jerry about three days after he did
this at the White House, and I said, did you
have a good time? He says, yeah. Man, these young
(12:20):
musicians he could play high and low and fast. They
know all the changes and all the modes and all
the course that play. He says, the only thing they
don't know how to do is leave the bone alone.
I understood exactly what he was saying. You know, they
try to get their whole story in one chorus, and
he's you know, he's looking for something that develops a storyline,
(12:43):
something that just develops as a jazz and propsation.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It's the thing I love most about Miles Davis. If
you put a stopwatch on how often he doesn't play
in a song. If you saw the spaces that he
leaves that leaves you the listener to complete it. You
know it's a He's not yelling at me. It's a
conversation with music that we have. You do that all
the time. The Great Star, you can go on a trip.
(13:08):
It's one of my favorite. Like I said, the world
opened the jazz and classical starting from the Beatles and
the progressive rock. But I love Aaron Copeland And he
was once asked after Billy the Kid came out, They said,
when were you at West? When have you spent time,
you know, in Wyoming? Where did you go? And he said,
I've never been west of New Jersey? What do you mean?
(13:30):
He said no. As a kid, I read the cowboy
books and watch cowboy westerns. So well, don't you want
to go? And he said no, it would ruin it
for me because in my mind, the West, the rodeo,
the thing that I have in my head, could never live,
the reality could never be what it is. So I
write from my imagination, as a kid's imagination. Why are
we still listening to it in twenty twenty four? Because
(13:52):
who was created from a personal from here?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah? And the beauty of it is you know,
there are only twelve no notes period, no more in
the Western. You know, Lexica has twelve notes. I mean
boats Are had those notes. Felonious Monk had those same notes,
Beethoven had those same notes, Otis Redding had those same
(14:14):
you know what I mean. It's just amazing what can
be done with twelve notes if you you know, relax
and invent.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, So it's an unanswerable question, but you're herb Alfret,
so I'm going to ask it anyway, And nobody's ever
answered it for me, just like you said, twelve notes
DA or the Beatles D just a simple riff from
George or Dad. Is there a magic to it? Can
(14:43):
it be taught or you're born with the ability to
hear that, or you're not.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't think there's anybody that can say those are
beautiful notes, that's a beautiful melody. It's it's going to
be a hit. You know. At A and M artists,
producers would come in wanting us to distribute their record,
because there are a lot of producers in the sixties
that just they didn't They operated out of the trunks
(15:08):
of their car, you know. So this guy comes in
with a song, and I would take the time to
list and all these songs that would come in, and
I heard this thing, and then I was thinking, I
hate this thing. I was thinking to myself, you know,
it's too long, it's out of tune. It's I heard
there was a better record of it years back, and
(15:29):
I passed on it, and I passed on Louie Louie,
you know, and that song. You know, it's still somewhat popular,
but I still don't like the song, you know, I
just I was just using my my gut feelings on
everything I did at A and M and still do.
(15:49):
That's how I operated.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Everything was wrong about that. So Mark Lindsay from Paul
Revere and the Raiders there in the North, I it
was Oregon, was it? You said that was the big
party song. We're all play that song. We knew it,
and we went in and cut it and it sounded
terrific when it was locked in. And then we heard
the Kingsman and said he had just gotten the red singer,
just got braces on his teeth, and you know those days.
(16:12):
One microphone and the engineer went, it's a brand new noyman, Mike,
you're not spitting on my mic and put it up
five feet in the air. Said, well, how am I
going to? He goes yell. So he wound up just
yelling over the one take louy oh Man, and you
couldn't understand what he said, and people thought there was
a dirty word, and it hit forever everything's wrong, and
(16:33):
that made it the hit. I love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well that's the way it goes, you know, you.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Just never know more. With herb Albert on Ken dash
ou'se Beatles Revolution, When we come back right after this,
We're back with Herb Alpert on Ken dash ou'se Beatles'
Revolution here on the iHeartRadio app. I just want to
hit it again. Concert Celebration March thirty, first Jazz at
Lincoln Center's Rose Theater on your birthday. But you've added
(17:00):
a second show because that's sold out, right, It sold out?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I mean it sold out rather quickly, and in two
weeks it sold out, actually, and that caught me off guard.
I mean, I was happy and excited about doing this tour,
but gee, I had no idea that so many people
did want to hear that TI you want to Brass sounded.
I'm going to give it to him. It's going to
be beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
The funniest thing in reading about you and as a kid,
there's the album here about in the Tea Want to Brass.
I didn't know, none of us really knew at the
time that there was this group of musicians called the
Wrecking Crew in Los Angeles and that they were pretty
much every pan we heard on every record. And I
read that, so they did, you know, Hal Blaine and
Carol Kay and Tommy Tedesco, all these great musicians, Glenn
(17:44):
Campbell and that then you had to go find a
band to tour after the fact.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah we did. And then the first
time I got a band together, we were playing with
Dave Brubec. Dave Rubec opened the show for Brewbag at
the Santa Monicacific Auditorium, and I remember Paul Desmond was
standing in the wings and leaning against the wall. As
I came by. He says he was kind of scratching
(18:11):
his head and he said, I don't know what I heard,
but I think I like it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
That's that said, good a compliment as you'll ever get, right,
I mean, I know, oh he was.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He was. He was magic, you know. But yeah, And now,
on that same Toroy song, they were playing a song
and all of a sudden, he started squeaking a bit
on the sacks, which he rarely does. So he just
casually stopped, took the read out of his horn and
looked on the floor. He had a bunch of reads there,
and he kept putting it another well, the song was
(18:42):
still going on. Man, it was like it was like
a forty five second lull, and he finally got his
read back on and started playing the horn and like
nothing had happened. It was so casual.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I mean, live performance is different for every so many
people there, artists, I know, we're terrified about performing live,
and others who say we finished an album, We did it,
but we don't know what we have until we played
for an audience the album. And I mean, you know,
even McCartney said, until it's out there and people hear it,
I still don't believe it until the audience tells me
(19:18):
they like it or they don't like it.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, yeah, that's absolutely what happened to the Tarwater Brass.
When I finally got the group together. It was after
I recorded the with preem and Under the Light's album.
We were playing up in Seattle, Washington, and every time
I played Taste of Honey, there was a tremendous reaction
from it. I'm sometime I played twice in a row
and my partner Jerry was pushing the other side. It
(19:43):
was a third man thing was the A side. Taste
of Honey was on the B side. So I called Jerry.
I said, Jerry, look it, man, you're on the wrong side.
It's Taste of Honey. He says, Man, you can't dance
to that thing. It stops and starts in the middle.
I don't think radio is going to like it, I said,
I don't know if they're going to like it or not,
but I'm just telling you there's a focus group up
(20:04):
here that is the is the good one. So he
finally turned it over and that was the door one
that opened the door for me completely. That's what we got,
you know, the Ed Sullivan Show and all the Danny
Kay and Andy Williams and all the great shows wanted them,
you know, wanted us. So we had that tremendous chance
(20:26):
or off of one record.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
And then to come back again later on Encore with Rise,
which is absolutely tremendous. I mean, it's as if it
was part of the same seamless piece of work. It's
how did that come in your world? How did that become?
You know what? I want to create this.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, Rise was kind of an accident because by my nephew,
Randy Badass Albert. He wrote that song Rise with a
friend and the Armor. Randy said, uncle, why don't you
take the deal water Brass songs? And it was the
disc during the disco period. He says, make a disco
record of some of these songs. I said, Ben I
(21:04):
don't want to do that. Let them die in peace.
He says, if you don't do it, somebody's going to
do it. So at that time, the three M Company
loan A and M Recording Studios a three thirty two
track digital machine, and I wanted to try out the
machine for our company, just to see. You know. I
(21:24):
didn't know anything about that technology, and so I said, okay,
let's get a couple of those songs together and I'll
try it. So we got some great musicians and started
playing Taste of Funny or one of those songs with
a disco boom boom boom beat. And I said, Randy,
I can't do that. Just let them die in peace. Please.
(21:46):
They'll mean I'm not desperate to get a hit record here.
And they had this song that he had written with
his partner. He wanted to do that at a one
hundred and twenty beats per minute, and I said, no,
I love this melody, man, Let's let's slow it down.
Let's let's slow down and people can dance. You don't
cheek the cheap or whatever. So we did. We slowed
(22:06):
it down to one hundred pieces per minute, and it
was recorded live in the studio and Abraham L. Boreal
played this fantastic spaceline that just looped and went on
together forever. He was dancing around in the studio as
he was playing this thing and as far as his
cord would would allow. And I heard the playback of
(22:29):
the it was like, I think it was the third take,
and I got goosebumps. I was in the control rooms
yet if they were like, whoa man, this is good.
And I leaned over to Julius Wectter, who played the
marimbas on on Ri's I said he was a dear
friend of I said, man, what do you think of
(22:50):
this thing? And he turned around and says, I hate it.
I said it. He says, I don't like that board
of the floor boom boom. You know, he was a
a musicians, right and the FOURD of the floor was
really bothering him. So anyways, I didn't think anything about
his comment other than an honest comment. I can always
(23:11):
handle hones stage. So yeah, we put it out. It
took a little bit of time, but then when it hit, man.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It hit hard again. It's a conversation between the musicians,
you know, when it's live. Like you said, somebody's dancing.
Maybe it speeds up a little bit, maybe it doesn't.
You hear mistakes that are made with the Beatles and
the Stones, especially in the early days, things were rough.
It's a live it's a living, breathing thing. And look,
I'm not want to ever put down anyone else's music ever,
(23:38):
but what I hearing pop songs today? Everything is perfectly quantized.
Everything is absolutely perfect, and it takes the soul out
of it. For me, somebody wins a Grammy herb and
thirty five people get up from the theater and walk
up on the stage. That's not a song. That's a
business to me.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Did you play an instrument?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah? Played a little piano. A can that play drums now?
And you know, watching the greats, not just how fast
you can do it, but the Stuart Copeland and what
Ringo does the fills. As we talk about the Beatles, well,
you know he's not as fast as anyone, but he
swung a lot of those beats to put in like
a mambo beat on a rock song. Back in sixty
(24:19):
four sixty five, the night before tinging Teeth to Team,
I'm like, that's so hip, even if you don't realize
he's doing it. It changes the whole feeling.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Man, you got your finger on it there. You're right.
I totally agree with you. One. It's all about a feel.
They don't listen to, you know, the obvious things that
if you're way up in your head you're going to
think about improving this and the intonation. Put it on
the on the system that can correct intonation. Yeah, you
(24:51):
take the heart out of it. I remember doing uh.
I had the whole idea for that arrangement, called these
musicians in. We had a three hour session that I
wanted to really capture this one. I captured it in
twenty minutes. I let everyone go. It was the feeling
that all of a sudden happened on that first take,
(25:13):
and I told a couple of guys, let me, can
I improve on my set? You don't have to improve
on anything. Man, it's right there. It feels good. What
more do you need?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's the magic of it. I mean sometimes it is
one take where you've recorded thirty five and you're still
going back to the first take and you realize that
was the one that was most honest. Like I said,
learning about musicians from other musicians, the Beatles who were everything.
Jack Douglas I recently talked with, who has become a friend,
who you know, started with He was the engineer on
(25:43):
a magine and produced Double Fantasy. I said, who's the
easiest person you ever worked with in the studio? He said, Oh,
it's easy John Lennon. I said, really, He said, yeah.
He do a few takes to the vocals and I say,
you want to I'm going to start putting them together,
some rough takes, he said. And he just said him, check,
just use use the one that you feel has the most,
(26:05):
has the most me in it. He said, if I
made a mistake, leave it, make it, make it louder.
I don't you know? Just he said, And I realized,
I'm I'm editing and mixing, like for emotion, not for
he was a little flat here, or let's pitch this,
or that he was a little late on that intro.
And he said, I realized that's real magic.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, and that's sometimes hard to see, hard to hear.
You got to be in a relaxed place to be
able to accept that type of information.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, And I guess confidence as well.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm talking with and the zeros and ones that ruined
everyone because you get so many options. You know, we
in m studios. We were accustomed studios, so we had
other artists. You know. There was a rock band for
people in our studio for three months recording in their album.
It came time to mix it. I happened to be
walking in the near the lounge and talking to the producer.
(27:03):
I said, man, now it's time to do it. Man,
you can mix this whole thing up. He says, no,
it's a little bit of a problem. I said, why,
he says, I have the drums on thirty five tracks.
You know what I mean? They caused the whole problem
for themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I mean, you know again like ringo, Mike here, Mike
up there, Mike on this snare, Mike on the We're done.
Could they sound any better? No? I mean it's just,
you know, because it's the emotion of the piece, and
that's what did it. Herb Albert would election you like,
I could do this with you. This is such a
joy talking music with you and learning. As I said,
you covered a lot of Beatles songs with Tijuana Brass.
(27:48):
Was there what was the vibe? Was there? Like jealousy
for their hits because everybody said it was a fight
for chart position. It was Eddie and Brian Holland had
come up and he said, you know what we realized
in Detroit is if you had a good song, that
wasn't going to make it because every the quality of
what everybody was doing from Liverpool to LA to New
(28:10):
York to Atlanta to Detroit, they everybody had such great songs.
You had to have a great song to break into
the top ten. I said, so, was there jealousy? Was
their respect? What was the vibe of you guys of
I mean maybe like the LA people or Herb Albert
to the Beatles, like owning the charts?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah? Well, first off, you know, when I got the
group together and we flew to the UK, Brian Epstein
was our the bookers, and so he organized a party
at his place and I met I met the guys
and they were like, I don't have humbles the right word,
(28:52):
but they were just regular people. They were not specially
I mean, they didn't have a like a aren't they
wonderful type of feeling. Is just a wonderful group of guys.
And then you know, when the Beatles broke up, George
Harrison had a label called dark Horse, and it was
distributed by A and M. And he was on our lot,
(29:13):
a lot, and he married one of our secretaries, Olivia.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's right. I forgot that connection.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yes, yeah, And he he was a lovely guy man.
He was He was authentic, He was real and I
think he wrote one of the most beautiful songs the
Beatles recorded. And you know, he was in the minority
when it came to you know, the songs that were chosen.
(29:39):
But there's something in the way she moves. Wow, what
a great idea.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I mean, Sinatra says it's the greatest love song ever written.
But you know, you're I've always said that George Harrison
was the greatest songwriter in any band in that era
that didn't have Lennon and McCartney. He just happened to
be the third guy with these two giants. And good
for George Martin to sort of push and give him
a little bit of room. And on that last album,
(30:05):
those two songs Something and Here Comes the Sun, he
he gets the two starring songs on that album.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, George had the feel though, and he was really
a lovely human being man. You know, he did so
many nice things for other people and raised a lot
of money for some great causes. He was, he was special.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Oh this is great. I can't wait to see you
at Jazz and Lincoln Cider once again. He is coming.
Uh let me get the date.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
March thirty first.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And uh and April first day, happy, happy, almost birthday almost.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You know, I'm looking forward to it. But it then
my birthdays are coming every three months now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So but like I said, nobody's nobody's stopping he would
do it was I. I was talking interviewing Keith Richards
and I said, you know the standard question. You know,
you don't need the money. You know, why why keep touring?
And as he hit the cigarette, he said, because no
one applodes when you take the garbage out at home. Baby,
(31:09):
who knows got it? Got it?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
You know?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Everybody like McCartney. Why of course he doesn't need the money.
You don't need the money. I mean, you know, it
just it's the joy of sharing. It's to me, it's
a conversation between you and the audience. It's a loop
of the joy that the audience has of you. Why
when thousands of people want to see you perform and
feel your music and you can do it, and you're
(31:37):
proud of the level you can do it at. Why
why the hell stop? Like you know, it's like it's
it's just a joyous thing. But this is it's here's
the hardest question. I'll leave it with this. And I
did a talk with Clive Davis about this and he
stopped and said, no one's ever asked me that question.
So it's a tough one. Here we are in twenty
twenty four. You you've been the you haven't entered the
(31:59):
music business. You run the music business. You've created such
great art. Somebody now trying to break through? What do
you tell them? How do you tell them? There used
to be away, You had a manager, You played clubs,
somebody came to see you, they saw the fire. Now
everything is YouTube and influencers and how many followers you have.
(32:19):
What do you say to a young person trying to
break through today?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Well, you have to find your own voice. For one.
You have to be authentic. And I had a problem
playing the horn in nineteen seventy nineteen seventy one, was
going through a divorce and I started stuttering through the
instrument and I couldn't get the first note out right.
So I met this teacher in New York. His name
was Carmen Caruso. He was called the Troubleshooter and he
(32:45):
was teaching students from all over the globe who had
problems playing their instrument. And when I met him, I said, Carli,
what am I doing wrong? Should I change my mouth
based with the trumpet itself? He said, let me tell
you something, kid, He said, this is that trumpet of yours.
It's just a piece of plumbing, that's all it is.
(33:07):
It's just a series of pipes. You're the instrument. That instrument,
how it is just a megaphone. It's just an amplifier
of your sound. That sound comes from deep within you.
And I try to, you know, pass that on to
students and musicians, and I think that's the whole key,
(33:29):
find your own voice, you know. I tried sounding like
you know, Miles and Harry James and Louis Armstrong and
all I came to the realization, who wants to hear
that They've already done it? So I was looking for
my own voice. But when he said that, it was like,
oh yeah, it's not about technique, It's not about anything
(33:52):
else but finding out that thing that you do naturally.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And that's what allows you to play again because now
you were free.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh yeah, I was totally free, and I'm playing better
now at eighty nine. Then I was playing forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I can't wait to hear you play live her about
But thank you so much for the time. This was
joyous for me. I hope it wasn't too painful.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I had a really good time. Ken you appreciate all
the things that we talked about. Thanks you here.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It really does matter. Thanks for all the music throughout
the years. And I will see you. I'll see you
in the spring. I'll bring some birthday cake, Okay, thank
you
Tikto It's Ken Dash's Beetle Revolution.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Bunk to faith all.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
On the radio, Ken Dashouse Beatles Revolution. Glad to be
back on board. Thank you producer Peter for being part
of this journey and talking today with a legend. You know,
we don't just talk beatles. We talk about music the
music business as well. And this is a man who
started out as a giant as a performer and launched
(00:30):
his own record label. It's a little record label you
might have heard of, A and M. He is playing
at Jazz at Lincoln Center April first and second here
in New York City to celebrate his ninetieth birthday. Herb Albert,
Welcome to Ken Dashouse Beatles Revolution.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I've heard a lot about your show. You're popular, man.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hardest part about this interview is not going to be
spending the entire time telling you how awesome you are
and you're saying thanks a lot, But there's a lot
to be thankful for. You're one of those people. The
only other person I know sort of in that world
is Peter Asher, somebody who is a performer, somebody who
is a producer, manager, and then launched this little record
(01:10):
company called A and M Records, And I mean, I
don't even know how to begin. But how do I say, Hey,
thank you for the police, the carpenters, the go Gos,
Joe Cocker, Supertrap, Rick Wakeman, Squeeze, Iggy Pop, Procol Harum,
Suzanne Vegas. I mean, where do I even begin all
of so much of our music is thanks to A
(01:31):
and M Records.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Don't don't forget Quincy Jones, the Great Q.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You are absolutely crabby. The list would be the entire,
the entire alphabet of what you're doing. But it's interesting
when a performer starts in and you see the music
business as a whole. And the interesting thing about A
and M Records to me is Columbia. Back then. CBS
was kind of like the singer songwriter labeled. To me,
it was Dylan, it was singers, Atlantic was blues and
(01:58):
R and B and A them to me was everything
you know, A and M. It was quality, But it
wasn't this music or that music you had the carpenter's
you have sticks, you know, it was whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, we were about music, you know. I recorded for
a major company prior to A and M, and I
didn't like the way I was treated. They treated me
like a number, you know, three aged sixty five two
to take one. You know, I didn't get it. And
then I was listening to a playback of one of
the songs that I did, and I wanted to have
a little bit more bass. So I went over to
the councole and I lifted the bass track up and
(02:32):
the engineer actually he slapped my hand. He said, man,
don't ever do that again. This is a union board
and we can all get in trouble. I said, oh my,
this is not the way it supposed to be. I thought,
if I ever had my own record company, of the
artists first be revolving around the artists and not the
beat of the week. I wanted to, you know, explore
(02:55):
artists that have something magical to say in a different
way of saying it, and that you know, that's what
A and M was all about. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
The thing is, you can't do that, you can't do that, well,
look at the results. You know that all that matters
is the results, And look at the great music and
the great bands that you nurtured and cultivated. Speaking of
great bands and great albums, So this has been a
great year for music. Seeing the Rolling Stones in MetLife Stadium,
seeing Madness and Herbalpert Coming to New York City March
(03:25):
thirty first, Jazz at Lincoln Centered Rose Theater. Your ninetieth
birthday celebration. Congratulations, But again, I just saw Willie Nelson.
He killed it, the Stones, Paul McCartney's touring. Who's stopping?
It's music, who's stopping? Why stop doing something you love?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I think when you do it in an authentic way,
And I think the artists you just mentioned, they're into
it because they're into it. You know. It's not like
they're trying to be more popular and they've had their
moments in the sun, but they love it. They do
it because it's the need for them. I'm absolutely mind
boggled by, you know, the response to me getting together
(04:03):
with the new version of the Tijuana Brass, because, like
you said, I'm March thirty first, on my birthday at
Lincoln Center. I'm going to play this concert and it's
sold out, so we had to add, you know, a
second night. So through the years, I've been playing little
bits of the Tijuana Brass pieces in concert with my wife,
(04:24):
but you know, people wanted to hear the whole thing.
So I'm going to give them the whole thing, and
it's it's gonna be fun. I'm adding musicians to the
group and I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Listen, what do I know. I'm not Ron Delzer, He's
just a longtime friend. You could have played the Beacon
Theater two three nights. I'm telling you you could have.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well, Lincoln Center has a little ring to it. Not
like jazz, you know. I think jazz is such an
important art form and we have to support the jazzers.
It's it's really tough out there for the musicians. You
don't have a jazz club here in Los Angeles called Vibrato,
And there's so many young music that are absolutely fantastic
(05:02):
and you never hear of them because it's hard to
get through the maze. You know, there's so many you know,
zeros and ones coming out every day. It's just hard
to get through the maze because radio isn't what it
used to be.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
When you think about your era in the sixties, and
I've gotten to talk with some of the folks at Motown,
which was a thrill. And the thing about radio, it
wasn't as homogenozed. You would get the Beatles you got Motown,
you got herb Alpert track, as a matter of fact,
whip Cream because I did a little homework. I love
this whip Cream number one for eight weeks in nineteen
(05:35):
sixty five. You outsold the Beatles and the Stones with
that album. And yet the first track, Taste of Honey,
which was reinvented sort of by the Beatles, you know,
on their early days, And I started thinking about because
I'm a Beatle geek, that was like the primer to
the world. The Beatles took me everywhere. I found jazz,
I found progressive rock, I found music, I found show tunes.
(05:58):
I found everything through They were my music teachers. But
in looking at what you've done, when I think, Michelle,
all my loving taste up Honey with a little help
for my friends. Oh Bladio bla dah and I love
her and with your Wife with Lannihull, with Brazil sixty
six Fool on the Hill. It's one of the greatest
tracks I ever heard. What were the Beatles to herb
(06:20):
Alpert back in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh well, I get asked a question, is there anything
he would do differently? You know? And the one thing
I would have done differently in nineteen sixty two, wouldn't
the only bill happened and A and M was formed.
There was a chance to sign the Beatles. I would
have signed them, but who knew, you know. The music
they put out in sixty two was completely different from
(06:43):
when they got really in the heart of what they
were just really so. They had such a wide span
of musicality, and George Martin seemed to know how to
corral all that and put it in this proper place.
They were fantastic. I love them to this day.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I've always said, and Stevie van Zandt is my partner
in crime, if you aid and the petty we do
like Beatles shows together and things like that. And as
Stevie always pointed out, they were the first group that evolved,
that started here and then quickly just kept jumping to
go from she Loves You Yeah yeah yeah, to turn
off your mind, relax and float down stream. This is
(07:21):
not dying in two years. Imagine a boy band now
touring for two years and going that's it, We're done touring.
We want to write something deeper and more meaningful. The
managers would have a heart attack and drop dead. You
just you stay in your lane, you do your thing.
And the coolest music that we have in all these
bands that you signed was they didn't just stay in
(07:41):
one place. They evolved. They searched for other things to do.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Oh yeah. And you know when you give a great
artist a chance to stretch out, that's when it happens.
You know, when we heard Kat Stevens for the first time,
I couldn't believe this guy cat in a guitar to
you completely out his authentic way of playing and singing,
and the songs he wrote and the uniqueness in the
(08:06):
rhythms that he chose. He was just special. Like Jerry
and I always wanted to. Like I said before, we
weren't looking for the beat of the week. We wanted
these people that had something uniquely special to say in
their own way. And when I found the Carpenters, you know,
it's not the music that I normally gravitate towards. But
when I heard her sing and Richard, knowing that Richard was,
(08:31):
you know, a fabulous piano player and an arranger, the
two of them together that was it was magic. But
they need the song. It's all about the songs. It's
the melodies. The melodies reign king. You know, it's like
Quincy once said, he said, you could take the two
greatest singers in the world and give them a bad song,
(08:51):
and it's going nowhere.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
He's absolutely right. I mean, what a genius, and I
mean his passing was sad, but what a legacy that
he left the world. You know. Well, like you guys
are the gods that created all this. When I think
about all the songs again Melody, you know, and from
Tijuana Taxi to Spanishly to The Lonely Bull. And it's
(09:14):
interesting how McCartney and Lennon all the books that have
written about how they're done. I've learned more about them
from other musicians and things about the songwriting and the inspirations.
Do me a favor, share this story. I read a
story about The Lonely Bull and about how a trip
to Mexico to a bullfight inspired you and created the
(09:35):
song for you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, there was many bullfights to Tijuana in the spring
for about three years. I would do that, and there
was this brass band in the stands that played fanfairs.
Didn't it wasn't Marianci music. I never listened to Marianci music,
but this group of people they were just knowing bad
and then the bull would rush out. But they do
(09:58):
another fanfare of another variation on that one, and then
it was something that just touched me. And I tried
to get the feeling of that afternoon in a song.
And a friend of mine that I was now and
then playing casual dates with him, he was a piano
player salt Lake. He had a song that he played
(10:19):
for me. It didn't sound anything like The Lonely Bull.
He had it like a music box. It was very
kind of a dainty little song. But I loved the melody,
so I took that melody. I changed a little bit
of the structure in the bridge. Didn't take credit for that,
didn't want to. It was his song, but that was
the the canalyst. I didn't realize it was gonna take
(10:42):
me to far away places, but you know, when I
got it was in the top ten. And I got
a letter from a lady in Germany and she said,
dear mister Alpert, thank you for sending me on this
vicarious trip to Tijuana. And I chuckled when I read it. Well,
that's interesting, that various vicarious trips. You know, she was
(11:05):
she got the picture I said, that's the type of
music I want to make. I want to make music
that takes you someplace, that gives you a feeling of it,
and it's it's personal. Whatever it might take one person
into a far away land, might take another person next door.
It doesn't really matter. It's just that it's it's something
that touches look at. I'm almost ninety now. In my
(11:27):
I think all the arts, music, sculpting, painting, acting, poetry,
it's all about a feeling. It's not about how articulate
you are, or how you know the technique that can
raz will dazzle you. It's about the feeling. And there
are a lot of I know, there are a lot
of artists out there that try to impress you with
(11:49):
their you know, their abilities. You know. I'll tell you
a little story. I was dear friends with Jerry Mulligan.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Great saxophone player, sax.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Player, and he was when Bill Clinton was inaugurated for president,
he got ten sax players at the party he was throwing.
I'm not sure what the party was, but ten sax
player and Jerry was one of the sax players. So
I spoke to Jerry about three days after he did
this at the White House, and I said, did you
have a good time? He says, yeah. Man, these young
(12:20):
musicians he could play high and low and fast. They
know all the changes and all the modes and all
the course that play. He says, the only thing they
don't know how to do is leave the bone alone.
I understood exactly what he was saying. You know, they
try to get their whole story in one chorus, and
he's you know, he's looking for something that develops a storyline,
(12:43):
something that just develops as a jazz and propsation.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It's the thing I love most about Miles Davis. If
you put a stopwatch on how often he doesn't play
in a song. If you saw the spaces that he
leaves that leaves you the listener to complete it. You
know it's a He's not yelling at me. It's a
conversation with music that we have. You do that all
the time. The Great Star, you can go on a trip.
(13:08):
It's one of my favorite. Like I said, the world
opened the jazz and classical starting from the Beatles and
the progressive rock. But I love Aaron Copeland And he
was once asked after Billy the Kid came out, They said,
when were you at West? When have you spent time,
you know, in Wyoming? Where did you go? And he said,
I've never been west of New Jersey? What do you mean?
(13:30):
He said no. As a kid, I read the cowboy
books and watch cowboy westerns. So well, don't you want
to go? And he said no, it would ruin it
for me because in my mind, the West, the rodeo,
the thing that I have in my head, could never live,
the reality could never be what it is. So I
write from my imagination, as a kid's imagination. Why are
we still listening to it in twenty twenty four? Because
(13:52):
who was created from a personal from here?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Oh yeah? And the beauty of it is you know,
there are only twelve no notes period, no more in
the Western. You know, Lexica has twelve notes. I mean
boats Are had those notes. Felonious Monk had those same notes,
Beethoven had those same notes, Otis Redding had those same
(14:14):
you know what I mean. It's just amazing what can
be done with twelve notes if you you know, relax
and invent.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, So it's an unanswerable question, but you're herb Alfret,
so I'm going to ask it anyway, And nobody's ever
answered it for me, just like you said, twelve notes
DA or the Beatles D just a simple riff from
George or Dad. Is there a magic to it? Can
(14:43):
it be taught or you're born with the ability to
hear that, or you're not.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I don't think there's anybody that can say those are
beautiful notes, that's a beautiful melody. It's it's going to
be a hit. You know. At A and M artists,
producers would come in wanting us to distribute their record,
because there are a lot of producers in the sixties
that just they didn't They operated out of the trunks
(15:08):
of their car, you know. So this guy comes in
with a song, and I would take the time to
list and all these songs that would come in, and
I heard this thing, and then I was thinking, I
hate this thing. I was thinking to myself, you know,
it's too long, it's out of tune. It's I heard
there was a better record of it years back, and
(15:29):
I passed on it, and I passed on Louie Louie,
you know, and that song. You know, it's still somewhat popular,
but I still don't like the song, you know, I
just I was just using my my gut feelings on
everything I did at A and M and still do.
(15:49):
That's how I operated.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Everything was wrong about that. So Mark Lindsay from Paul
Revere and the Raiders there in the North, I it
was Oregon, was it? You said that was the big
party song. We're all play that song. We knew it,
and we went in and cut it and it sounded
terrific when it was locked in. And then we heard
the Kingsman and said he had just gotten the red singer,
just got braces on his teeth, and you know those days.
(16:12):
One microphone and the engineer went, it's a brand new noyman, Mike,
you're not spitting on my mic and put it up
five feet in the air. Said, well, how am I
going to? He goes yell. So he wound up just
yelling over the one take louy oh Man, and you
couldn't understand what he said, and people thought there was
a dirty word, and it hit forever everything's wrong, and
(16:33):
that made it the hit. I love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well that's the way it goes, you know, you.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Just never know more. With herb Albert on Ken dash
ou'se Beatles Revolution, When we come back right after this,
We're back with Herb Alpert on Ken dash ou'se Beatles'
Revolution here on the iHeartRadio app. I just want to
hit it again. Concert Celebration March thirty, first Jazz at
Lincoln Center's Rose Theater on your birthday. But you've added
(17:00):
a second show because that's sold out, right, It sold out?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I mean it sold out rather quickly, and in two
weeks it sold out, actually, and that caught me off guard.
I mean, I was happy and excited about doing this tour,
but gee, I had no idea that so many people
did want to hear that TI you want to Brass sounded.
I'm going to give it to him. It's going to
be beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
The funniest thing in reading about you and as a kid,
there's the album here about in the Tea Want to Brass.
I didn't know, none of us really knew at the
time that there was this group of musicians called the
Wrecking Crew in Los Angeles and that they were pretty
much every pan we heard on every record. And I
read that, so they did, you know, Hal Blaine and
Carol Kay and Tommy Tedesco, all these great musicians, Glenn
(17:44):
Campbell and that then you had to go find a
band to tour after the fact.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah we did. And then the first
time I got a band together, we were playing with
Dave Brubec. Dave Rubec opened the show for Brewbag at
the Santa Monicacific Auditorium, and I remember Paul Desmond was
standing in the wings and leaning against the wall. As
I came by. He says he was kind of scratching
(18:11):
his head and he said, I don't know what I heard,
but I think I like it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
That's that said, good a compliment as you'll ever get, right,
I mean, I know, oh he was.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
He was. He was magic, you know. But yeah, And now,
on that same Toroy song, they were playing a song
and all of a sudden, he started squeaking a bit
on the sacks, which he rarely does. So he just
casually stopped, took the read out of his horn and
looked on the floor. He had a bunch of reads there,
and he kept putting it another well, the song was
(18:42):
still going on. Man, it was like it was like
a forty five second lull, and he finally got his
read back on and started playing the horn and like
nothing had happened. It was so casual.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I mean, live performance is different for every so many
people there, artists, I know, we're terrified about performing live,
and others who say we finished an album, We did it,
but we don't know what we have until we played
for an audience the album. And I mean, you know,
even McCartney said, until it's out there and people hear it,
I still don't believe it until the audience tells me
(19:18):
they like it or they don't like it.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, yeah, that's absolutely what happened to the Tarwater Brass.
When I finally got the group together. It was after
I recorded the with preem and Under the Light's album.
We were playing up in Seattle, Washington, and every time
I played Taste of Honey, there was a tremendous reaction
from it. I'm sometime I played twice in a row
and my partner Jerry was pushing the other side. It
(19:43):
was a third man thing was the A side. Taste
of Honey was on the B side. So I called Jerry.
I said, Jerry, look it, man, you're on the wrong side.
It's Taste of Honey. He says, Man, you can't dance
to that thing. It stops and starts in the middle.
I don't think radio is going to like it, I said,
I don't know if they're going to like it or not,
but I'm just telling you there's a focus group up
(20:04):
here that is the is the good one. So he
finally turned it over and that was the door one
that opened the door for me completely. That's what we got,
you know, the Ed Sullivan Show and all the Danny
Kay and Andy Williams and all the great shows wanted them,
you know, wanted us. So we had that tremendous chance
(20:26):
or off of one record.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
And then to come back again later on Encore with Rise,
which is absolutely tremendous. I mean, it's as if it
was part of the same seamless piece of work. It's
how did that come in your world? How did that become?
You know what? I want to create this.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, Rise was kind of an accident because by my nephew,
Randy Badass Albert. He wrote that song Rise with a
friend and the Armor. Randy said, uncle, why don't you
take the deal water Brass songs? And it was the
disc during the disco period. He says, make a disco
record of some of these songs. I said, Ben I
(21:04):
don't want to do that. Let them die in peace.
He says, if you don't do it, somebody's going to
do it. So at that time, the three M Company
loan A and M Recording Studios a three thirty two
track digital machine, and I wanted to try out the
machine for our company, just to see. You know. I
(21:24):
didn't know anything about that technology, and so I said, okay,
let's get a couple of those songs together and I'll
try it. So we got some great musicians and started
playing Taste of Funny or one of those songs with
a disco boom boom boom beat. And I said, Randy,
I can't do that. Just let them die in peace. Please.
(21:46):
They'll mean I'm not desperate to get a hit record here.
And they had this song that he had written with
his partner. He wanted to do that at a one
hundred and twenty beats per minute, and I said, no,
I love this melody, man, Let's let's slow it down.
Let's let's slow down and people can dance. You don't
cheek the cheap or whatever. So we did. We slowed
(22:06):
it down to one hundred pieces per minute, and it
was recorded live in the studio and Abraham L. Boreal
played this fantastic spaceline that just looped and went on
together forever. He was dancing around in the studio as
he was playing this thing and as far as his
cord would would allow. And I heard the playback of
(22:29):
the it was like, I think it was the third take,
and I got goosebumps. I was in the control rooms
yet if they were like, whoa man, this is good.
And I leaned over to Julius Wectter, who played the
marimbas on on Ri's I said he was a dear
friend of I said, man, what do you think of
(22:50):
this thing? And he turned around and says, I hate it.
I said it. He says, I don't like that board
of the floor boom boom. You know, he was a
a musicians, right and the FOURD of the floor was
really bothering him. So anyways, I didn't think anything about
his comment other than an honest comment. I can always
(23:11):
handle hones stage. So yeah, we put it out. It
took a little bit of time, but then when it hit, man.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It hit hard again. It's a conversation between the musicians,
you know, when it's live. Like you said, somebody's dancing.
Maybe it speeds up a little bit, maybe it doesn't.
You hear mistakes that are made with the Beatles and
the Stones, especially in the early days, things were rough.
It's a live it's a living, breathing thing. And look,
I'm not want to ever put down anyone else's music ever,
(23:38):
but what I hearing pop songs today? Everything is perfectly quantized.
Everything is absolutely perfect, and it takes the soul out
of it. For me, somebody wins a Grammy herb and
thirty five people get up from the theater and walk
up on the stage. That's not a song. That's a
business to me.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Did you play an instrument?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah? Played a little piano. A can that play drums now?
And you know, watching the greats, not just how fast
you can do it, but the Stuart Copeland and what
Ringo does the fills. As we talk about the Beatles, well,
you know he's not as fast as anyone, but he
swung a lot of those beats to put in like
a mambo beat on a rock song. Back in sixty
(24:19):
four sixty five, the night before tinging Teeth to Team,
I'm like, that's so hip, even if you don't realize
he's doing it. It changes the whole feeling.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Man, you got your finger on it there. You're right.
I totally agree with you. One. It's all about a feel.
They don't listen to, you know, the obvious things that
if you're way up in your head you're going to
think about improving this and the intonation. Put it on
the on the system that can correct intonation. Yeah, you
(24:51):
take the heart out of it. I remember doing uh.
I had the whole idea for that arrangement, called these
musicians in. We had a three hour session that I
wanted to really capture this one. I captured it in
twenty minutes. I let everyone go. It was the feeling
that all of a sudden happened on that first take,
(25:13):
and I told a couple of guys, let me, can
I improve on my set? You don't have to improve
on anything. Man, it's right there. It feels good. What
more do you need?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's the magic of it. I mean sometimes it is
one take where you've recorded thirty five and you're still
going back to the first take and you realize that
was the one that was most honest. Like I said,
learning about musicians from other musicians, the Beatles who were everything.
Jack Douglas I recently talked with, who has become a friend,
who you know, started with He was the engineer on
(25:43):
a magine and produced Double Fantasy. I said, who's the
easiest person you ever worked with in the studio? He said, Oh,
it's easy John Lennon. I said, really, He said, yeah.
He do a few takes to the vocals and I say,
you want to I'm going to start putting them together,
some rough takes, he said. And he just said him, check,
just use use the one that you feel has the most,
(26:05):
has the most me in it. He said, if I
made a mistake, leave it, make it, make it louder.
I don't you know? Just he said, And I realized,
I'm I'm editing and mixing, like for emotion, not for
he was a little flat here, or let's pitch this,
or that he was a little late on that intro.
And he said, I realized that's real magic.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, and that's sometimes hard to see, hard to hear.
You got to be in a relaxed place to be
able to accept that type of information.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, And I guess confidence as well.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm talking with and the zeros and ones that ruined
everyone because you get so many options. You know, we
in m studios. We were accustomed studios, so we had
other artists. You know. There was a rock band for
people in our studio for three months recording in their album.
It came time to mix it. I happened to be
walking in the near the lounge and talking to the producer.
(27:03):
I said, man, now it's time to do it. Man,
you can mix this whole thing up. He says, no,
it's a little bit of a problem. I said, why,
he says, I have the drums on thirty five tracks.
You know what I mean? They caused the whole problem
for themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I mean, you know again like ringo, Mike here, Mike
up there, Mike on this snare, Mike on the We're done.
Could they sound any better? No? I mean it's just,
you know, because it's the emotion of the piece, and
that's what did it. Herb Albert would election you like,
I could do this with you. This is such a
joy talking music with you and learning. As I said,
you covered a lot of Beatles songs with Tijuana Brass.
(27:48):
Was there what was the vibe? Was there? Like jealousy
for their hits because everybody said it was a fight
for chart position. It was Eddie and Brian Holland had
come up and he said, you know what we realized
in Detroit is if you had a good song, that
wasn't going to make it because every the quality of
what everybody was doing from Liverpool to LA to New
(28:10):
York to Atlanta to Detroit, they everybody had such great songs.
You had to have a great song to break into
the top ten. I said, so, was there jealousy? Was
their respect? What was the vibe of you guys of
I mean maybe like the LA people or Herb Albert
to the Beatles, like owning the charts?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah? Well, first off, you know, when I got the
group together and we flew to the UK, Brian Epstein
was our the bookers, and so he organized a party
at his place and I met I met the guys
and they were like, I don't have humbles the right word,
(28:52):
but they were just regular people. They were not specially
I mean, they didn't have a like a aren't they
wonderful type of feeling. Is just a wonderful group of guys.
And then you know, when the Beatles broke up, George
Harrison had a label called dark Horse, and it was
distributed by A and M. And he was on our lot,
(29:13):
a lot, and he married one of our secretaries, Olivia.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's right. I forgot that connection.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yes, yeah, And he he was a lovely guy man.
He was He was authentic, He was real and I
think he wrote one of the most beautiful songs the
Beatles recorded. And you know, he was in the minority
when it came to you know, the songs that were chosen.
(29:39):
But there's something in the way she moves. Wow, what
a great idea.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I mean, Sinatra says it's the greatest love song ever written.
But you know, you're I've always said that George Harrison
was the greatest songwriter in any band in that era
that didn't have Lennon and McCartney. He just happened to
be the third guy with these two giants. And good
for George Martin to sort of push and give him
a little bit of room. And on that last album,
(30:05):
those two songs Something and Here Comes the Sun, he
he gets the two starring songs on that album.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, George had the feel though, and he was really
a lovely human being man. You know, he did so
many nice things for other people and raised a lot
of money for some great causes. He was, he was special.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Oh this is great. I can't wait to see you
at Jazz and Lincoln Cider once again. He is coming.
Uh let me get the date.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
March thirty first.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And uh and April first day, happy, happy, almost birthday almost.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You know, I'm looking forward to it. But it then
my birthdays are coming every three months now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
So but like I said, nobody's nobody's stopping he would
do it was I. I was talking interviewing Keith Richards
and I said, you know the standard question. You know,
you don't need the money. You know, why why keep touring?
And as he hit the cigarette, he said, because no
one applodes when you take the garbage out at home. Baby,
(31:09):
who knows got it? Got it?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
You know?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Everybody like McCartney. Why of course he doesn't need the money.
You don't need the money. I mean, you know, it
just it's the joy of sharing. It's to me, it's
a conversation between you and the audience. It's a loop
of the joy that the audience has of you. Why
when thousands of people want to see you perform and
feel your music and you can do it, and you're
(31:37):
proud of the level you can do it at. Why
why the hell stop? Like you know, it's like it's
it's just a joyous thing. But this is it's here's
the hardest question. I'll leave it with this. And I
did a talk with Clive Davis about this and he
stopped and said, no one's ever asked me that question.
So it's a tough one. Here we are in twenty
twenty four. You you've been the you haven't entered the
(31:59):
music business. You run the music business. You've created such
great art. Somebody now trying to break through? What do
you tell them? How do you tell them? There used
to be away, You had a manager, You played clubs,
somebody came to see you, they saw the fire. Now
everything is YouTube and influencers and how many followers you have.
(32:19):
What do you say to a young person trying to
break through today?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Well, you have to find your own voice. For one.
You have to be authentic. And I had a problem
playing the horn in nineteen seventy nineteen seventy one, was
going through a divorce and I started stuttering through the
instrument and I couldn't get the first note out right.
So I met this teacher in New York. His name
was Carmen Caruso. He was called the Troubleshooter and he
(32:45):
was teaching students from all over the globe who had
problems playing their instrument. And when I met him, I said, Carli,
what am I doing wrong? Should I change my mouth
based with the trumpet itself? He said, let me tell
you something, kid, He said, this is that trumpet of yours.
It's just a piece of plumbing, that's all it is.
(33:07):
It's just a series of pipes. You're the instrument. That instrument,
how it is just a megaphone. It's just an amplifier
of your sound. That sound comes from deep within you.
And I try to, you know, pass that on to
students and musicians, and I think that's the whole key,
(33:29):
find your own voice, you know. I tried sounding like
you know, Miles and Harry James and Louis Armstrong and
all I came to the realization, who wants to hear
that They've already done it? So I was looking for
my own voice. But when he said that, it was like,
oh yeah, it's not about technique, It's not about anything
(33:52):
else but finding out that thing that you do naturally.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And that's what allows you to play again because now
you were free.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh yeah, I was totally free, and I'm playing better
now at eighty nine. Then I was playing forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I can't wait to hear you play live her about
But thank you so much for the time. This was
joyous for me. I hope it wasn't too painful.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I had a really good time. Ken you appreciate all
the things that we talked about. Thanks you here.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It really does matter. Thanks for all the music throughout
the years. And I will see you. I'll see you
in the spring. I'll bring some birthday cake, Okay, thank
you
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