The Long Game

Kendall Long is Ashley’s guest cohost! Find out why she might be done with The Bachelor franchise… forever! 

We hear the REAL reason why she and Grocery Store Joe broke up.  And she reveals that there might be a new love in her life.

And DeVon Franklin holds nothing back when he shares his thoughts on how Matt James’ season ended. Find out why he thinks Matt is a “shell of who he was”.

Plus, Katie’s season of The Bachelorette wrapped early! What does that mean??

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with her radio. Hey, guys, welcome to the Almost Famous podcast.
Ben is out this week, So that means I have
a co host. Let me give you some hints. Okay,
she's blonde, she has blue eyes, she has made two
appearances on the Bachelor franchise, and she has a twin. Okay,

(00:26):
you have you have five seconds to guess who it is.
Until they introduced themselves one, two, three, four five, who
are you? Mystery co host? Well, I was thinking that
everyone's going to think it was the other twins, but Kendall,
my goodness, look at how shady I was there. That

(00:49):
was that wasn't even on purpose, and yet it could apply.
I guess it couldn't really apply to them because I
think they've done three seasons. I think the twins came
together are on two seasons of Paradise and one of
which they were kind of annoyed because they went in
on the last week. That would be it's always difficult
to go in the last week. I feel, oh, yes,

(01:09):
for sure. For well, we're going to talk to you
about paradise in a second. But you know, I have
to build to that. So Kendall. What have you been
up to since the last time we talked to you?
You had a book come out. It was Man, has
that book almost been out for a year oday? Just Curious?
A Notebook of Questions? Yes, that's actually really insane. Don't

(01:31):
even think about it. It's my author anniversary coming up,
and I think it's coming up in launch in November.
Oh wow, I was totally off. Okay, so you've been
up talking about like I was in production, I think
of actually making it happen. So so there you go.
You've been an official author for six months. You came
out with a book called Just Curious, A Notebook of Questions,

(01:54):
which is so fun. I love a bunch of random,
thought provoking questions to ask at a dinner with people
that you like have dinner with all the time, like
with your family or like your best friends. You're like, man, like,
what should we talk about? That is different? And like
this book can do it so well. So you want
to ask a question or two to start this podcast off? Yeah,

(02:17):
that sounds fun. Let me think. Honestly, I didn't prepare
questions before, but let me think of an interesting one
that I haven't talked about yet. Because like we do
host chat and this would be like a great host chat. O.
Let me think of one. Um, like I wish I
had like a whole list of them on me right now,
so I can just like or had a book on
me right now, I can just open to a random page. Um.

(02:39):
But let's see one that I like asking because I
think it causes people to get a little bit uncomfortable
depending on your vulnerability. But I love asking when was
the last time you cried? Oh? Well, look at that.
It's a very appropriate question for me. Yes, um, okay, Well,

(03:00):
it's good that I can't really think about it. That
can't like doesn't come to the top of my head
happy to Okay. Well, I mean last night I got
choked up, like I felt like I was on the
verge of tears because Maria Manuns his mom died. Um.
And I'm just like I've always been a fan of Maria.
She's such an idol to me. And um, I've just

(03:23):
been following her mom's journey and her mom has had
brain cancer for a while. I think she got she
went into remission and then she ended up getting advanced
up in advanced brain tumor. I think reading rediagnosed about
six months ago, and she passed away yesterday. And I
had like all that heavy heart and like the closed
throat and like the wild up eyes. Didn't actually cry,

(03:45):
but that's kind of like the last time I felt
emotion like that, which was you know, twelve twelve hours ago.
So that makes very much sense for me. What about you,
that's that's heartbreaking? But for me it was I had
like a little at any fight with my brother about
something random, and I cried. Then. I feel like I
cry easier and easier the older that I get. Really

(04:08):
it's the opposite for me, which is well, really good.
But that probably just means that I cry an appropriate
amount of this age, as long as we really getting
it out there. I heard that when you cry, there's
a chemical that's released that's like a pain killer. Yeah,
he feels good to cry. Oh that's awesome. I mean,

(04:30):
like that makes that makes total sense. That's why people
say I needed a good cry, right, yeah, because then
you're like filled up with all these endorphins. You're like, yes,
it's like a little cry high. Right. So Kendall, you
are still living in l Ah, that is where you're from.
You have a wonderful, Pucci. And are you still doing

(04:51):
set design? No? I don't. Yeah, I don't do create
a directing your set design anymore. Um yeah, either maybe
for like friends, birthday parties or like baby gender reveals
or something. But I've been gone in depth and set
designed for a while. Okay, okay, So tell us an
average day in the Kendall life. Um, well, right now

(05:12):
I'm in Austin, um exploring here. I have a friend
that might potentially move here. So you have a friend
that may potentially move there. You may plan actually move there,
not me my friend. Yeah, so I'm here for emotional
support with that. But COVID is still very much the thing.
So I'm kind of slowly branching out of doing more

(05:34):
comfortable in traveling and doing stuff like that. But daily life,
I hang out with Pistachio. He makes me up at
like seven seven thirty am every morning. He's an early riser.
Oh no, that's too early. Oh it's way too early.
But he's just like breakfast is at this time I
best happen and sorry to do that. Um, do some

(05:55):
work emails on my computer from home, or if I
can go to a cafe or a park I love
working at the park. Um, and then you know it's
in l A. I mean it's pretty, it's pretty chill.
Nothing too crazy happening right now. So have you been
on dates since you broke up with Joe over a
year ago? Now? Have has there been anyone of note there?

(06:18):
I have been on dates? Yeah, I'll say that. Um,
it's hard to I mean dating in l A in
general is difficult, but um, I've definitely cut myself out
there and I've been very open to it and I've
had some I've had some good dates. Yeah, there's some good,
good vibes about that. Um, good good. We'll see, we'll see.
So is there somebody that you've gone on multiple dates

(06:39):
with that like it's still going to possibly be more
dates with Yeah? I would say that fun like a
couple of days with somebody and you know, I'm down
to go on more dates. Um. Yeah, Okay, that's great.
That's great news. Is there anything from your relationship with
Joe that you learn from that now you look for

(06:59):
in men that you wouldn't have prior. Yeah, I learned
so much from that relationship. I feel like that was
the relationship I just threw so much trust in and
um right off the bat, which is completely honest and open,
and I think that really expedited the relationship in a
lot of ways. Um, And it was the first relationship

(07:20):
I actually saw potentially turning into a marriage. So that
was something very new for me. So I think I
am able to recognize it a little bit more moving forward. UM.
So so yeah, I mean it is a gift to
be able to experience that from him. And so I
think every single person that I date and like looking
for that next level of connection got you. So Paradise

(07:42):
is coming up. So I would be not a very
good bachelor, UM podcast host if I didn't ask you
if you'd be open to going to Paradise. I'm not sure.
I mean, there's there's so many people who have been
on the show who never had a pick. There was
a Paradise last year. There's a lot of a lot
of there's a minimal amount of spots and a lot

(08:03):
of competition for them. Oh oh yeah, they will be
blood there. Blood people have seen enough of me, I think,
So I don't think that's something that I want to have.
I want someone else to be able to experience, like
falling in love in that way because it is so
amazing and you can't really experience it anywhere else. So
I feel like there's just so many amazing women who

(08:24):
you know are deserving of that. That is so kind
and generous of you. Seriously, how selfless of you. I
think it's like my choice and like, oh I was
still my gift of my paris. It's not even oh
my gosh, well, I don't know. I could totally see
them wanting to do something with you and Joe the
way that they did with me and Jared, And it's

(08:46):
just like a storyline that I think the audience is
still rooting for and they would love to say more of. Yeah,
like how could you imagine yourself there? If Joe was
there as well, I would not want watch him fall
in love with someone else, definitely not. I mean that
would just that would suck so so much. Um, But

(09:07):
I wanted to be happy, like I want him to
find love, um not in front of my freeze. Okay,
I mean, I don't know. I'm just so thankful that
you said that would suck and you wouldn't and you
didn't just say that, You're you wanted him to be happy,
because like you need to be honest in this and
it would suck and that would be horrible. Do you
think that Do you think that at all, like an
experience like that could get you guys together or do

(09:29):
you think that that door is completely shut? I think
that there'd be a few things that would have to
happen in order for me to see or both of
us probably to see a future. Um. I think that
our end the goal is very different and so um
unless he shifts that. I mean, I don't know, a
joke so great. I think there's been so much time

(09:49):
since our relationship that it would be really interesting to
see like what that would look like, if that's even possible. Um,
But I still have a tremendous amount of love for him,
you know, He's Yeah, if you found that out that
he was going, and they also asked you, would that
deter you from going? It might, yeah, just because I
feel like, yeah, it would be really difficult. And he

(10:11):
had mentioned before, I think in another podcast, that there
were girls that he was interested in that were in
past seasons. So I'm like, well, he's if he's going
on there with like someone in mind, I don't necessarily
know if I have anyone in mind. You know that
I would go on there for so um yeah, that
would I'd just be like signing up for another heartbreak,
which would it doesn't sound logical, but you know that's

(10:33):
not logical. So true in hindsight, like our audience, I
I don't know if they remember, but like to me,
at least, it sounded like you guys really did break
up because of location, Like he needed to be in
Chicago and you just said, no, I'm staying in l
A with my family, and I completely get it. Like
Sharon just it's kind of like it's I don't know

(10:55):
if it's a joke sometimes, but he was like if
you if I knew that long term, we may not
have ended up back in Rhode Island. It would have
been like a harder commitment for me because he loves
his state and he just thrives by his friends and family.
He's a he's a totally different person here. I mean,
I think I still think we would be together. I

(11:20):
know we is still be together if I wasn't cool
with it, but I know the relationship would be more
difficult if I was not down to be in Rhode Island.
So in hindsight, now that you had like a year
and a half removed. What do you think the crux
of your issues were? Um? I think it definitely was. Um.
I mean where you are is your life. You know

(11:40):
how you spend every single day. I love more. I
would love more than just one person. You know, you
have your partner and that's amazing, but that's not your
entire life. Like my friends and family who I'm extremely
close to, have a twin sister. She's like literally part
of my body. No. I love that because I don't
know if I told you this last time you're on
the podcast, but you once told me that you thought

(12:00):
that you're I don't love you told me, you told
the whole public that you thought that your sister was
your soul mate. And then after hearing that, I was like,
I think my sister is my soul mate too, like
even more so than I would call Jared, Like I
think Jared is my perfect destined person for sure romantically
and as a life partner. But my sister, when it

(12:21):
comes to the word soul made like soul connection, like
she can read, like we just communicate in a way
that I don't think it would be possible for anybody
else exactly exactly. And I mean I lived the longest
I've ever lived away from my sister was six months,
and I lived at San Francisco. She lived in l A.
And that wasn't even that big a good traveling distance,

(12:41):
so imagine like Los Angeles Chicago. I guess just you know,
a world away, not really, but um but yeah. So
and I also I want to have a family. I
want to you know, have children, and I envisioned my
family being a huge support in that. Um So, I
guess that was just I never envisioned leading l A.
And I never thought, you know, Joe would want to
leave l A. It was just something that we couldn't

(13:03):
compromise on. His family and friends are amazing, so he's
like very much in the same boat as I am
with that. So yeah, we just couldn't figure it out.
And I think that's almost the hardest way to break up,
you know, because it's not about and if there's nothing
like fundamentally wrong with our relationship. Um So, it's weird
to think you can definitely fall in love with more

(13:23):
than one person, and you know, many different ways made
different places. So yeah, it's kind of like people who
want to have kids or don't want to have kids.
Because we were talking about this on Jared's podcast the
other day. Help I stuck a dating little side little
side plug, Um, But there are like couples where like
they'll be perfect in every single way, completely compatible, but

(13:46):
it's like one wants kids and one does not want kids,
and they're both so firm and their decisions on that
that it just cannot happen. They can't be together. It's
kind of like you, guys, with location exactly exactly, and
we there's a couple of deer deal breakers, you know,
and not all of them mean that the other person
is a bad person, right or not the person for you.
It's just all right. Let's move on to bachelor headlines, guys.

(14:11):
Um Kendall's gonna stick around for this and our upcoming
interview with our beloved Devon Franklin. Devon Franklin was on
to talk about Chris Harrison in February, I believe, and
he was such a wonderful guest and he's here to
talk about his new book. We're gonna talk about relationship
with relationships with him and some hot topics and Bachelor Nation,

(14:33):
like the fact that Matt James and Rachel Kirknell or
kirk Connell. I'm gonna keep calling it a kirk Cornell.
They are back together. But first we have a word
from our sponsors. Al Right, guys, welcome back to Bachelor Headlines. Kendall,

(14:59):
have you been key being up with the hot topics
in bastination? Have you been watching the seasons? I have
been watching the season in terms of, like all the
breaking news and who's dating, he's not dating? I do
hear like a little bit, but I'm not so I'm
sure you'll be able to fall along. So I will
be reading the headlines and the bullet points, and if

(15:19):
you've got something an opinion that you're just burning to
talk about, please do all right, our first headline is
Matt James says he's pursuing a relationship with X Rachel Kirkconnell.
He says, I'm focusing on it, so, he says, I've
seen Rachel a handful of times. He confirmed this to
People magazine while discussing a partnership with Dick Sport and

(15:41):
Good's Lucky him. He says he's not pursuing any relationships
right now outside of that. I said I was going
to focus on my relationship with her, and that means
focusing on it. He also said, um. When asked about
whether she's doing the work that she promised to put
in and regarding to educating herself about racism, he says

(16:04):
that's something you could talk to her about. He says,
a lot of what I'm focused on right now is
the work that I'm doing in the community and with
the marathon that he's training for. Um. He also said
that there will be no chance that he or Tyler
Cameron We'll be on Bachelor in Paradise. That would be

(16:25):
a bloodshed. Oh my god. I mean, like, I'm pretty
sure I knew Matt wasn't gonna be doing Paradise and
Tyler I would also think would not be doing it either.
But I mean, I'm sure that disappoints many ladies there. Okay,
let's get to like the crux of this. He is
seeing Rachel, So he's dating Rachel. This is, in my opinion,

(16:46):
I think this is great. I I think that there's
a lot of love there and I'm just wondering, like,
this is what I talked about on How I Second
Dating a couple of days ago. This is the same
headline we went through. I just have to be a
little bit honest. It kind of feels I have to
be careful with my words here, But it kind of

(17:08):
feels like he threw her under the bus a little
bit during after the final rows, like he kind of
honestly seemed so over her, Like he couldn't even look
her in the eyes, he couldn't even hug her. And
yet here we are six weeks later and he's dating
her again. So was that just for that, just for looks?
Was that just for show that he just seemed like

(17:30):
repulsed by her? Um, like he would never give her
another chance. I remember getting on here with Emmanuel Acho's
brother the day after, and he was like, oh, there's
not a chance of those two get back together. But
now we saw them together on a date in New
York City four weeks after that finale episode. So, I mean,
what do you feel about the authenticity of of Matt

(17:52):
showing his emotions to the public. It's difficult because I
feel like they have so many conversations that we are
not aware of it. We don't have a little sneak
peek into So I'm sure they've excessively talked about it.
Um and it's difficult when there are a lot of
opinions coming in from different people that don't know what
you're talking about, that don't know the work that's being
put in. Necessarily, um, and I also have to think,

(18:15):
like the heart wants what it wants, right, So I
feel like if that he genuinely has cared for her
and she genuinely has cared for him, then it's it's
very difficult not to explore that and not to give
it a chance. I almost feel like with love sometimes
it's it's not voluntary. You know, you so badly don't

(18:36):
want to do something, or feel like it's not good
for you or it's not right, but you know, we
make that call or we text, or we go on
another date. And I'm not saying this is a situation
with them because I haven't heard their conversations or anything.
Um And I do genuinely think that she has an
open heart just from everything that I've seen, But um,
if there's genuine love there, then I don't know. I'm

(18:58):
always a champion of that of people giving it a chance.
Me too. It's between them, you know, yeah, and exploring
it to the utmost honestly, Like I don't have any
curiosity there. I'm always that person. It's if you feel
like there's curiosity left with the relationship by the plane ticket,
go on that date, you know, exhausted because you don't
want to live life and regret thank you. That's what

(19:19):
I always say. Seriously burn it out because at the
end of the day, you may want to be like,
oh no, no, I want to I want to play
it cool, like I just wanted him to think of
me like I was just like chill, cool girl. No,
that's not gonna get you anywhere emotionally and mentally in
the long run, and then you're always going to be
thinking of that person and that is going to be

(19:40):
very bad for your future relationships. Oh yeah, I don't
want to look back and to be like I regretted
not getting something a chance. Yes, So looks like Rachel
and Matt are doing that. Now. Let's now Matt. This
is a perfect transition over to from Matt season to
Katie season. Matt says that Katie Thurston will be the

(20:00):
best to ever do it. He says, this, she's incredible,
She's going to do so well. I'm excited for her
to have this space to find her person. He says,
I think she's going to be one of the best
to ever do it, and it's not going to be
a surprise to me as we watch everyone across the
country fall in love with her, well as our very

(20:21):
sweet words from Matt James. Uh. Interesting to lead that
headline into the next headline because we can do so
much speculation here. Katie's season wrapped ahead of schedule and
quote she was in control. A source and exclusive source
tells US Weekly that Katie was in control and made

(20:44):
sure the men she wanted were there and the men
she wasn't interested in she sent them packing. Okay, okay,
what's different from that for many other bachelorette Apparently it
went great and they wrapped a week ahead of schedule.
They also said that Taitia and Caitlin Um were able
to help Katie along with this journey and um, it

(21:07):
was just fun and they were a great team. Caitlyn
and Taitia. Okay, um wrapping a week early? Do you
think that that is a good thing or a bad thing?
I think it probably means that there was enough drama
to sustain an entire season, So there was just like
a lot that happened. I mean, I mind boggled. I

(21:30):
think that it may not have been even a whole
five weeks that they were filming. And I guess, like
when you cut out travel, that like naturally cuts out weeks.
That's so weird. So it's only it wasn't even five
weeks because I'm thinking when she was three months, it's
like three months of filming. Yeah, so normally I think
it's just a lot. Normally it could be nine weeks,

(21:52):
I believe, and then with her it was it was
it was definitely less than six weeks. I want to
say it was just about five. That's fast. It's a
fast turnaround. It's not much different than Claire Antatious season. Um.
But I'm just wondering, like, could it mean that multiple
people left, that they didn't have any many there's chopping walks,

(22:14):
like did she elliminate? Yes? Did she eliminate eliminate a
lot of guys? Do the guys leave? Judging by how
it was discussed, it seems like she got rid of people. Yeah,
a lot. Um, So it's like she was in control.
It makes me think that she was like bang bang bang,
you're out. I know who I want. I would Actually,

(22:35):
when I first saw that, I was curious to think,
what if she got rid of a bunch of guys
in the beginning, and so there's just more time for
a smaller amount of men, which I think would be
really interesting. I mean, hey, that's a choice we've never
had that I would love so so much, And you
get to know the guys so much more, Like I
feel like with Matt James this season, there were so
many girls coming in that I felt like I didn't

(22:58):
get to know all of them at a more personal
level until a lot later. So I would like to
see maybe some men shine more like the ones that
she actually has genuine connections with, Like maybe even like
there's like five for a couple of weeks, Like, I
don't know. I just think that'd be really fun. I
think that would be so good. People will get so
attached to those characters, and it's those kind of bonds

(23:20):
that the audience develops that makes us live for Monday Nights.
And I felt like I got that litatious season. Yeah,
like multiple one on one days, you know, Yes, I
think that would be so rewarding. Um, And I think
it's just show so much more of their personality and again, like,
like you said, like there's just so much more investment
in those relationships. Yes, yes, yes, the heartbreaks would be

(23:40):
that much more devastating, which is horrible for the men
but very good TV for us. At least one good
heartbreak in your life, you know, I agree. Yeah, I
love heartbreak. It's like hurt me, dang it. Yes, but no,
like can wait, Yes, but no, there is beauty in

(24:02):
the heartbreak and you don't really notice it or appreciate
it until you, I think, are happy with somebody else,
and then you can look back on heartbreak fondly, which
is bizarre, but that's the way it was for me. No,
I agree with that. But then also I feel like
you're allowing yourself to feel so strongly for somebody, and

(24:24):
that's cool to know that your kids getting there, you know,
Like my recent heart like recent heartbreaks that I've had,
I'm like, oh man, it's just so cool that I
was able to love someone that intensely. And I mean,
hopefully there's someone in the future. But but yeah, you
know you're right, like initially, right off, right after a heartbreak,
it's like this is the worst everyone. I hate it
all right, Let's get back to some Katie headlines. There.

(24:46):
Katie posted to Instagram for the first time she was
She was talking about how she got her vaccine. She
also joked this week about her family searching for a
ring after the Utchlorette's season wrapped. I guess her family
because she says, my family, this is my family searching
for a ring. Um, she was, Yeah, I guess the

(25:12):
family is just joking about, like, you know, like does
she have it on her or anything like that because
she doesn't get to go home with the ring. Wasn't
it Tasia that lost her ring in the sand or something?
What I don't remember. This wasn't there, Oh, never mind?
Was that somebody else It was like a different reality
show or something or someone like lost their engagement ring

(25:34):
in the sand and they were like ever gone hands
and me searching for it? Never mind. No, I think
her family is just like, oh, you engaged? Are you engaged?
And then they were trying to find the ring. Can't
find the ring because guess what's not it's not in
her hands? Yeah, okay, I see, I see, like as
if like, oh, it's in her luggage or something. But yeah,
and the first engagement off of the show in a

(25:56):
couple of seasons if she does end up getting engaged,
right or maybe there is because well Tasia got engaged
and so to Clare. So oh, never mind, I'm up
to date with this stuff. It's okay, it's okay. It
seems like a long time ago. So Caitlin Bristow got
on her podcast this week and she said that being

(26:19):
part of Katie There since season actually brought up some trauma.
So she got on her podcast and she said a
lot of people are asking how I'm feeling. They know
I took a social media break for a couple of days.
I was very overwhelmed. I think it was such a
perfect storm in a breeding ground for an anxiety or
anxiety because I was truly back in the world of

(26:40):
you know, I'm happy to be part of this bachelor show,
but I didn't realize how much, and it brought up
some either trauma or anxiety that I may not have
dealt with as much as I thought I had. She
doesn't share specifics, but she did she did say, my
hormones are out of control. I'm in New Mexico, where
I swear the altitude, in the dryness and the hotel
food was just getting to me. I mean, yeah, I

(27:03):
can imagine that whenever you step foot, like I've been
to the Bachelor Manage in a couple of times, really
only have fond memories there, but like going back to paradise,
just like being at the same location where so many
feelings unfolded and being with a lot of the same
producers who you confided in during those moments bring up

(27:24):
so much in nostalgia and if you can just place
yourself right back to where you were, it's kind of wild.
I can't imagine how that would have been for her,
A little time capsule of emotions I can imagine, like
with every because I feel like there's those certain stages
of getting to know somebody and then having to battle
between maybe loving more than one person and then getting engaged.

(27:47):
Like I can see that bringing up a lot for her,
And then you kind of start thinking about people of
your past too. You start thinking about like the guys
you dumped, and like, what how would have life would
have gone that way if I ended up with that person?
And and for Caitlin, it was probably kind of weird
because like when she thinks of that experience, she probably
thinks of Sean. You know, she met she met Jason

(28:09):
through the Bachelor, you know, family, but that experience is
all about Sean, so she probably ended up thinking about
that relationship a lot, and and that can always make
you feel all sorts of weird. M h. It's like
you have to kind of go through the break up
again or go through the happy times and then the
devastating times as well. Yeah, but Caitlin also said on

(28:29):
Good Morning America this week that it's going to be
really fun. Tasia and her had a really really fun
time being there. They love Katie. She said, I'm definitely
not going to say much because I don't want to
get in trouble, but I can say it might be Oh,
she says, maybe I can say it's it's the most
dramatic season yet. Come on, now, come on now, I

(28:50):
don't know. We've gone through so many dramatic seasons. I
actually can't even think of a spin. This is drama
in general. I can always picture maybe the spin of
having guys that could be dramatic. That's a great spin,
but it actually feels less dramatic. It feels like they
would just be more love and less fights amongst I
don't know. Maybe that would lead to more fights because

(29:11):
then the guys would have such a deeper connection with her.
Who the heck knows. Yeah, well, there's gonna be drama regardless.
That's Did you see Caitlin reunite with her dogs though
after coming back from the Bachelorette? Oh my gosh, I
can disimagine because she's so so close to them that
it was I haven't I haven't seen the video. I

(29:31):
know that they're super close, but she we should not
allowed to have them on this show because I know
that a lot of people bring their dogs. Yeah, so
she had her dogs there for a while with Jason.
I think that they were there half the time, and
then she she had she had been alone half the time.
And I think that they're kind of like her emotional
support animals, So I'm assuming that would have been hard
with them gone as well. Uh kind of What the

(29:55):
heck did you think last week when Chris Harrison and
Lauren's Ema posted that picture of her in the white
dress in black and white, Oh you didn't see it.
I saw that he posted a picture of her like
an appreciation post, and he was like more lovey Debbie

(30:16):
than I've seen him. Oh, I it was very sweet.
I was calling everyone saying, Chris and Lauren got married.
I don't know why I was so convinced this, but
I was not alone. There were a lot of people
speculating that they had gotten married in Texas. It was
a black and white picture. Okay, he's in a suit.

(30:38):
She is wearing an elegant floor length gown. It looks white.
It probably wasn't white because you find out that she
was actually a bridesmaid. The caption read, I'd stop the
world and met with you at Laurence. Okay, yeah, yeah,
I saw that. I was thinking. I did think initially, oh,

(30:58):
what's your proposal or something. It was like a highlight
of like, this is serious. Looking at it. I thought
they eloped, and I thought it was very romantic, but
that but they did not do that. She said wow,
Like wait she Laurence said, I love you so much

(31:19):
and appreciate all the congrats, but this bridesmaid's dress is
really living above its potential. So they were actually just
dates at one of her friend's weddings. Um, but maybe
one day they will have a wedding of their Okay,
I love the relationship. Yeah, me too. They're very sweet together. Okay, So,

(31:44):
speaking of weddings, potential weddings, Claire Crawley, guys, is wearing
her engagement ring from Dale Moss again. She posted something
and story and she's sipping out of a juice box
and she's got her ring on her. Is that her

(32:06):
left finger? I think, like in reverse? Is that her
left finger? I'm trying to look at the picture right now, yeah,
because it does flip. Okay, so guys, I think it's
on the left finger. I did. I saw that and
I was like, that's a really pretty like screen group.
It is yea good for them. That is so so happy.

(32:29):
We'll talk about this one a little bit later with Devon.
But Rachel Lindsay announces that she's leaving the Happy Hour podcast,
so we'll talk to you guys about that in a
little bit. That doesn't mean the podcast is over. She says,
this podcast is amazing. Hands with you, Becca, I just
feel like this is a place where I can walk
away and I know it's all good. I know it's

(32:51):
going to be great, and you allow me to have
the space to step away when I need to. And
I would listen to the podcast on the side, and
I'm like, oh, she's got this. I can walk away,
so I will be supporting you back back up from
a distance. Rachel is also writing her own It's It's Her,
a book is coming out. It's She says that it's

(33:13):
a it's a personal essay themed book. So what does
that mean? A personal essay themed book? I think it's well,
ones that I've read are there just a bunch of
different topics. It's almost like a bunch of little mini
books book like little diary entries, but they don't have
like a flow to the topic the themes. Yes, yeah,

(33:33):
so maybe there could be like one big central theme
and a bunch of different stories that make up that theme.
But I wouldn't say they're all like one book. Okay, gotcha?
So her book is going be called miss Me with That?
And seriously, like, could Rachel Lindsay conquer more in this world?
Like her? And her resume is amazing, she tweeted she

(33:55):
Instagram this week. I've been waiting to share this so
thrilled to finally be able to tell y'all what I've
been working. I've I've been working on my first book,
Miss Me with That, a collection of personal essays, and
we got a while to wait on this one. It
comes out January two, she said, I can't wait for

(34:15):
it to be in your hands. Y'all know I won't
hold back. I'm telling my story, sharing my experiences and
opening my heart. I don't have time for that, I Kendall,
I've been thinking about this multiple times. I mind boggled
by how hard this woman works and how like she
must sleep four hours a night for with all the

(34:37):
jobs that she has. Bravo, She's She's incredible. Let's go
into some new couples was the question Mark News. Cassie
Randolph was seen with boyfriend over the weekend. Okay, so
it's a rumored boyfriend. His his name is Brighton rhyin
hert and he. She and him were responded on Sunday

(35:00):
in Huntington Beach, her hometown, and um, he looks cute.
She looks cute. I got nothing much more to say
about that, but I hope that Cassie is happy with
this new boy. Yeah. I think it's probably difficult to
hear all the news with Colton as well, like that,
with a new relationship with a bunch of things. Yes,

(35:24):
let's do a little Google search of this brighton rhyin hard.
Do we think that he's like a celebrity? Is he
like in the Hollywood realm, like her sister's boyfriend, or
could he be just a regular old dude? He looks
he just looks familiar. I'm looking. I think this is
Is this his instagram or maybe this is a fan Instagram?

(35:46):
You never know what. I think there is a fan.
There's a picture to them together. It's not from either
their instagrams. But okay, so he's a musician. He's a producer,
slash singer, songwriter. He also seems to be a Wilhelmina model.
He has a song out, Part of that World, Part
of that World, Cassie, this is wow. This is a
little bit breaking news. Thirty four minutes ago this came

(36:09):
out and we got source quotes. Now, okay, the source
says she's really happy and she's definitely moved on with
her life. They were in Cosmel, Mexico together in April. Well,
it looks like there's a new relationship. Then good for her, wonderful.
That's very happy. That's very happy news. All right. Now

(36:30):
there's one that may not make many other girls who
are part of the Bachelor franchise and possibly headed to
Paradise very happy. Uh, there's a picture of Mike Johnson
and Abigail getting co z they were both in New

(36:51):
York City this weekend. And wow, in this picture, guys,
Mike kind of has his hand through Abigail's hair, He's
got his nose nuzzled up to her cheek ear area.
He's whispering a little secret or something. Where did this
photo come from? Somebody's story? Okay, yeah, somebody's insto story

(37:16):
and they screenshot this, so neither of them posted it.
My question here is this, do they are they going
to date now or are they getting ready to date
in Paradise and they're already coupled off. I'm not sure
because I think there were like a couple of rumors

(37:37):
of whom he was potentially going to date, or I
know that Piper was really interested in him as well.
I heard I heard her saying that he was her
crush um, and then they all did hang out in
New York. But man, I'm so curious. I Mean, what's
interesting is that because there's been so much time between,
there's many people who would potentially be on Paradise A

(37:58):
lot of pastcast. There's been so many rumors with a
lot of different people, like Bennett apparently asked Kelly. We
he he broke that news right here on the podcast.
Oh oh my gosh. Yeah. Basically, you know, he said
he asked Peter for permission to date Kelly, and it's like, well,
you know, cow about Kelly gives you her own permission. However,

(38:19):
I think maybe he used the wrong word there. He
basically just said, like, Peter, would I be ruffling your feathers?
I think if I were to ask Kelly out, Because
Bennett also made it seem as if he and Kelly
have already been flirting through the d M. That's what
I thought when I initially heard that, But then I
heard he went on a date with k No, he

(38:40):
didn't go on Nope. He he debunked that right here.
He said that they just met his friends. He really
feels like their age differences too significant. But so it's
just so interesting to see that there's everyone's hanging out.
I've seen people you know in um hery Hanut of Florida,
New York, like everywhere San Diego, so it's interesting to

(39:01):
see that much of a crossover. Then there hasn't been
a season of Paradise. I bet you there's gonna be
like similar, you know how Blake, Yeah, it's gonna be
to happen again, so many Blake's yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
I could just already tell. I could already tell. That's
another the reason why I don't want to go on
right now. You know what they should do? Oh my god. Okay,

(39:23):
this is what we actually thought was going to happen
at the beginning of My Paradise season, because they had
us to come together for Lacey and Marcus fake wedding,
and we thought that they were about to do this,
And man, why aren't I a Bachelor producer? What if
there were two realms, two beaches in which there was
like twenty people here, and then there was twenty people there,

(39:45):
and then you have them date amongst their twenty people
for like two to three weeks, and then all of
a sudden, you have them walk on the beach and
they walk and they meet each other, the two groups,
and everything crashes and collides. Oh my god, let's do it.
That could happen. I mean, because there's so many people,
it wouldn't be a surprise to maybe have more characters

(40:08):
on the show like that more people I know, So
then we could do like Monday and Tuesday Beach number one,
and then on Wednesday and Thursday nights we have Beach
number two, and then midway through the season they collide
and we just do Monday and Tuesday nights. I'm exciting

(40:29):
myself with just my hypotheticals. I like that idea. Well,
we got one last headline and it is a breakup,
which makes me think, is this person going to be
a paradise Maddie Maddie pruittt She says she's single again
after a recent breakup. Says she recently just got out

(40:53):
of a eight month relationship. I was in a relationship
for about eight months, she says. Quote she never admitted
that in the past, she said, but it just didn't
work out. It just wasn't the right time. Who knows
what the future holds. She says that she has been
on a few dates since the split. We have never
gotten real confirmation, but it is rumored that the guy

(41:14):
that she broke up with was Denver Nuggets player Michael
Porter Jr. So do you see Maddie in Paradise now
or Nah? I'm not sure after her experience on the show,
she wants to go on another show. Yeah, But at
the same time, maybe they just had more to do
with Peter in the whole situation with that and how

(41:37):
that went down. But I don't know. I think she's
doing just fine finding love without being on Bachelor. At
the same time, it could give her another chance to opportunities. Yeah,
And also Paradise is such a completely different experience than
being on Bachelor Bachelorette. It's just a completely different show. Yeah,
so I can see that being it's very tempting. I

(42:00):
can see it counting for her for sure. I mean,
do we get Peter on Paradise and like really mess
this thing up? No, not allowed. No, let's put Peter
and Hannah and and Maddie all there together. Oh my gosh,
it's it's it's there's been so many people dating. It's
very like incestuous in a sense, like everyone dates everybody.

(42:21):
So I can see a lot of clashing happening. There
a lot different storylines. Yeah, and like I know, you guys,
we really don't get paid anything to go to Paradise,
you know, It's it's like a per damn type of situation. Yeah,
but please, producers pays people. They get all the juicy
juicy nous on TV. That would be worth the paycheck.

(42:41):
Do you know? It's so funny because there's so much
that there's so much that happens off camera. So I
feel like we all have to be caught up with
Paradise and like, you know, the inner workings, all the
secret relationships that have been happening that way that seems
to always happen every year. You know, people can't help themselves.
No they can't. But like I made it a rule
for myself because I'm not going to date anyone anyone

(43:03):
a Bachelor Nation before I went as supposed not doing it.
Very smart, very smart. I think it's the best way
to do it, you know, going fresh. You left with
a relationship, so that's the way to be. Yeah, you
didn't add any drama because if you go into Paradise
with a bunch of things that have happened in the past,
then you know you're going to have to handle it

(43:24):
like publicly, right, not something that I want to avoid. Yeah, alright, well, um,
we have gone through all our headlines and it is
time to get divon. Franklin, the author of the new
book Live Free Exceed Your Highest Expectations. On the podcast,
we're gonna be talking about Matt James and Rachel. We're
gonna be talking about Rachel, Lindsay's decision to leave her podcast,

(43:49):
and advice for Michelle who will be the next Black Bachelorette.
So stay tuned, But first a word from our sponsors
or guys. We've got d von Franklin back on the podcast.

(44:10):
If you didn't hear his episode with us a couple
of months back, and definitely go back in the archives
and listen to that as one of my favorite episodes.
He's one of my favorite guests. He's so full of
warmth and love. And if you guys don't know who
he is, he's a multi media like legend. He's an
award winning Hollywood producer. He's a New York Times bestseller.

(44:31):
He's a renowned and motivational speaker. He's followed by millions
of fans, including Ryan Seacrest, who calls him the self
help Master, and Oprah, who calls him a different kind
of spiritual teacher for our time. He is the author
of some bestselling books, The Success Commandments and The Weights,

(44:53):
and now he has a new book out that is
going to be released tomorrow May fourth, if you're watching,
if you're listening to this a little delay, and it's
called Live Free Exceed Your Highest Expectations. Devon. Welcome back
to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Wow,
thank you for having me. It's always a blessing to
be here. It's like coming home. So thank you. You're

(45:14):
the kiddest. Um. Okay, so let's start out by talking
a little bit about Matt James rekindling his relationship with
Rachel Kirkconnell. So we didn't talk to you after the finale.
It was actually, in fact a couple of weeks before
the finale that we talked to you, and so much
has gone on. People were predicting whether or not they
would be together, and then on after the Final Rows

(45:36):
it seems like they would never be together, and now
it was like four weeks later they're spotted in New
York City together. I was saying to Kendall earlier in
the podcast, I was like, I'm kind of second guessing
his authenticity during after the Final Rose because he seems
so turned off by her. What is your take on
off this? Oh boy, so much all the time you

(46:00):
need you know, here's here's the what. Here's what I
saw when I watched the you know after the Final
Rows episode. First and foremost, um I saw, and this
is gonna sound harsh, uh, media company malpractice because they

(46:28):
they knew this information was they had it, they didn't
do anything about it. And who paid the price for it?
Not Rachel but Matt the first black Bachelor having to
grapple and deal with what does that mean? And then

(46:51):
having information that the company withheld that could have been
nipped in the butt. She could have never been a
content ever if they thought, hey, you know what's in
her past? Or he could have been he could have
been made aware like hey, we normally would never do this,
but you need to know this because we don't want
you to be blindside it. There's so many things that
could have been done, but here he was deer in headlights,

(47:13):
having to grapple with all of it and then do
it in the public. So what I saw was a
man And what it would would deeply moved me was
like when you saw the promo for The Bachelor when
he started clean shaven, had the like, oh man, and
on that show he was a shell of who he

(47:35):
was when he started in terms of his public presentation,
I said that there was symbolism to the beard, oh,
without a doubt, And now you know, the beard is
gone and and he's you know, seemingly rekindling the relationship.
But so so, what I saw was someone who unfairly
was put in a situation that they then had to

(47:56):
deal with. And I think that he probably felt, you know,
I even talked to man, I don't know men, So
I'm just you know, uh, extrapolating here. He probably felt like,
I haven't I have no other choice right now than
to take this stand. Like if I don't take this stand,

(48:17):
am I really being you know? Am I being honest
to myself? Am I being true to what it means,
you know, to be a black man? And like it's
like there was no win. So I understood the idea
of like, hey, you know what, I'm gonna check out
of this and wait, So it's not I didn't look
at him as someone who's whose opinion you can't trust,
per se. I just saw someone who was put in

(48:38):
a situation that he should have never been put in,
and there was no guidance on how to do it.
So the best thing he could do was just protect himself.
All I can do is protect, and the best way
to what do we do when we protect? We retreat?
You know what I gotta I gotta protect me. Now.
With hearing that he that they were rekindling, I'll be

(48:58):
honest with you, I was very happy about that. And
you know what, I was happy about it because no
matter what, all the factors be them as they may,
and you know, all the things that shouldn't have happened,
they seemed to genuinely have a real connection and in
my mind, she seemed to genuinely seem remorseful for what happened. So,

(49:22):
in any relationship, this is any relationship, to what degree
are you going to hold the past of the person
you're dating or you are falling in love with against them?
Do you feel like there was Well if this sounds
like an obvious question, but I'll ask it anyway. Do
you feel like his decision there on that stage next
to Rachel where you know he didn't even huggerr Or first,

(49:45):
So what we saw, um, there was pressure for him
to make the decision not to continue to see her. Um,
you know, I think you know again, Okay, as a
as a as a black man. If I'm put in
that situation, I understand the decision, because you know, it's

(50:08):
like how it's a very hard thing to to go
out in front of the world as a black man
and and accept publicly what all all of the facts.
It's very hard. So, you know, if anything, maybe the
maybe the pressure was to just get out of this,

(50:31):
like you know what, I I just it's it's this
is blown up. It's much bigger than I know how
to deal with the best ways for me to retreat,
pull back, and get out of it. So maybe he
felt that pressure. I don't know if anyone in his
Chris crew were pressuring him. I don't know what the
pressure from the network or the producers may or may
not have been, but I could imagine there was some

(50:51):
pressure to just you know what this I can't know now.
And then also he did he did say that when
he brought it up to her, there was some discomfort
in her response, right, But you know, again, I'm not
I'm not I'm not making any excuses for her at all.
You know, but if you've done something that you that

(51:13):
you are you have no awareness of, your initial response
could be one of ignerance, like, hey, what do you
mean dad? Not really being in touch with what it
really means. So I don't know a pressure he was
under other than this is a this is a this
is beyond me, This is overwhelming. I really didn't ask
for this. This is not what I asked for when
I came on this show. There was who was protecting me? Who?

(51:36):
And that's the thing that really just It's like we
all talked about media, and we all talked about what
goes on in the public, but if you look closely,
this is this is the cost. When we talk about
ratings and we talk about you know, uh, everybody just
wanting a big show, It's like, yo, we can still
do that, but who's taking care of the people? Oh?

(51:59):
So we were need to sacrifice people's lives for viewers,
for eyeballs with no no accountability. I mean seriously, again,
I don't know what ABC and I don't know what
the producers are doing in their internal groups, but there's
got to be some accountability around this. This we we

(52:20):
we should pray he comes out of this and he's
able to navigate. That's why I'm so excited that they're
getting back together. Because if that was a genuine connection,
don't let anybody take that from you. You you go
and explore that for yourself and on your terms, you
decide if that's the right person for you, if that's
the right fit, on your terms. But there were things
that could have been done to help him along the way.

(52:40):
So I think you've got the pressure of getting out, like, hey,
this is over, We're done. I gotta just get out
of this the best way I can. Yeah, do you
feel like when he was on the stage out after
the final rose he was confused about his feelings for
Rachel or do you think it was so much more
than that with how his reaction was with everything. No,
I think he was very I mean, you know, again

(53:01):
again I haven't talked to the brother, but I think
he was very confused. I think, so, um, how could
you not because then, also, you know, it's like, I
have these legitimate feelings on both sides. I can't believe
she did this. I can't believe the woman I fall
in love with has done that, And then what does
that mean? You know? So, yeah, I think he was

(53:23):
legitimately confused trying to sort it all out, having to
do it in front of the public. Everybody's watching what
there's there. If he had stayed with her, he'd have
been vilified. Leaving he was, you know, there was no
win and and very little support and protection to ensure

(53:46):
that what needed to be factored in was factored in,
which was really how he was feeling and how she
was feeling, and making sure that they both had enough
information to gauge whether or not that was a real
feeling or just something that was produced. On that note,
Michelle will be the next Black Bachelorette this fall, So
do you have any advice for her or the franchise

(54:08):
and that time comes. You know, again, I'm not I'm
not as super I'm not well versed in how it
all works behind the scenes. I mean, you know, you
all have a much better idea about that. But if
I were her, I would have a very candid conversation
with the producers, with the network, whoever the liaisons are,

(54:29):
and say, hey, here, let's get some ground rules. If
there's anything in anyone's background that is racist, pracchased against
anyone or anybody, if you and you're going to keep
them as a contestant of the show, I need to
know period in the story like I'm not gonna go

(54:50):
through a process, and then all of a sudden like
no, no no, no, you all do a background checks anything
that is going to be that. I need protection as
a black woman. I need that information because I'm not
going to go through what you all put math through,
right and also you can't afford for me to go
through it, because if if I go through it, you

(55:10):
may not have a franchise anymore. It's it's still it's
still t v D. What's gonna happen with this franchise.
It's not out of the woods. Okay, it's still t
b D. So if I was Michelle, I would sit
down and get really clear about what I need. I
need more transparency, I need more protection and and I
need to not just be looked at as a contestant.

(55:34):
I'm a person, this is this is I'm I'm a
had heart. I had a heart of emotions, right is
It's real for me. I know it's a show for you,
but this is real for me, and I need some
some help and some guidance in that way. Um and
I'll you know, look again, you're asking me, I would
she I would say, hey, who who? Who? Of color?
Do I have here as a support system on on

(55:54):
the production side that can help me if I if
I have some problems. Yeah, it is such a very
it's a very real show, and I think a lot
of people do site that these are real people experiencing
real love, a lot of emotion. Um, what do you
think needs to happen next for the franchise? And again,
this is gonna sound crazy. Okay, y'all ask me. You

(56:15):
asked me the questions. I'm just gonna answer, man, honestly,
I think you gotta bring Chris back, Okay. And why why?
Because if if this is the end of Chris, it
is it's let me put it this way, all of
us have been on the job and done something that

(56:37):
did not always represent the type of employee we've been,
all of us. You know, when I was an executive
for Sony, you know, I made a few mistakes in
terms of how I handled a project and handled some people.
They didn't throw me out. They said, we know your capability.
We're just gonna take this as a mistake. But if

(56:58):
you do it again, it's gonna be a problem. But
take this as a warning. Okay. God, I got the
memo and I got back in there, and you know,
my whole career has thrived since then. So when you
have someone who's been as loyal, as dedicated, as into
into integral to the show, if that was the last
we saw of him, it just leaves such a bad

(57:20):
taste in the mouth of of all of us, and
I say us being a part of Bachelor Nation. It's
like he said what he said was wrong. There's no
excuse for it. He has said that he's continuing to
to do his work. Um, he's continuing to be remorseful
and he I believe it is old a shot to
get it right, because then when you go back and

(57:44):
you say, well, what did he what did he do
that that that made him get fire from the franchise, Like,
he didn't he he was not unkind, he was not,
you know, a terrible person to work with. He was
he didn't violate any ethics in that regard. I understand
that what he said was wrong, but when you talk
about losing your job, I think that he deserves a

(58:08):
chance to be brought back and let the public decide
if he is coming back and he's doing his work,
let the numbers say to tell the story. But I
personally feel that if you get rid of Chris over
what happened, it's it's it's I don't know something about
it doesn't sit right with me. Do you find that

(58:31):
he can be integrated back into the show just right
off into Paradise or should there be another type of
interview with him. I don't think he can be integrated
back into well, you know, honestly, Paradise is probably the
perfect integration form because it's a little more fun. Uh,

(58:52):
it's a little more carefree, you know, it's not there
isn't as much attention on Paradise from a media standpoint
as there as there is on The Bachelor and The Bachelorette,
So Paradise could actually be a great way to see
what the public is saying about you know, him as
a host and whatnot. And maybe this idea of of

(59:16):
you know, having you know, female hosts that you he
does it with someone else, you know, where where it's
not all on him, but there's someone else there, you know,
having a woman there that can you know, help carry
the load. And you know, and also that's probably what
what what should be any way, you know, Um, you know,
I just think that balance is a is a good thing,

(59:36):
and I think it's good for the for the franchise.
So I actually think easing him in back on the
Paradise might be a good move. Last question about Chris.
I just want to know if you've talked to him recently,
because I know that you were in communication with him
back when we spoke in February. Yeah, we um communicated,
you know, right around um uh we communicated all through

(59:57):
that moment and you know, and and after that that
the final Rows show. You know, I just checked in.
I want to say, hey, man, how you doing? He said,
you know, I'm hanging there and doing well. Um. So
we haven't talked since then. UM, but I did connect him,
you know, with some resources that he was taking advantage
of and really committing to the work. So that's why,
you know, I can tell you personally stuff that's not

(01:00:17):
even in the public type of work that he has
committed to and the work that he's doing. Um So
you know, I mean, yeah, I should probably reach out
to him and say, hey man, what's up, bro, Just
just checking on and make sure you're good, you know.
Uh So I'm gonna do that now that you mentioned
everyone was saying that the show is so different with
with Chris not being there, and he always was such
an advisor of sources for the men on the show.

(01:00:40):
So I do like the idea of having Chris and
maybe another female host to have that balance because he
has so much experience with bringing people through the journey
that is the Bachelor totally, and and and you know,
and what he knows and in his ability to just
ground the proceedings, uh, is valuable. It's a valuable thing. Um,

(01:01:04):
you know again, I just I don't know, I mean,
you know again, I know my opinion could be very
unpopular as it relates to this, but I just feel
like he he needs another shot and and and he's
and I frankly, I think he's earned it. I mean,
my goodness, you know he's been I've been doing it
for so long. And and even if there was a plan,
let's say the network said, hey, Chris, we're gonna have
to move on. Let's just say that that was their decision.

(01:01:28):
Give that make that a process, you know, like Okay, hey,
we're gonna have you on Bachelor Paradise. We're gonna do this,
and then you know, on the next thing, we're gonna
you know, phasee you out and let this host but
you know, whatever it is, but let's let there, let them.
Let there be a little bit more elegant way to
handle this than just to say, Okay, no, Chris never
returned and see you all later. Yeah, now that Chris

(01:01:48):
isn't on Bachelorette, do you think the Ears are going
to have a completely different experience the Bachelorette? Theirs? Totally.
I mean. The thing about Chris though, is it's like
when you it's almost like you know, when you're a
camp and you never know when your parents gonna show up,
you know, so when the parents going like a man, listen,

(01:02:11):
we christained to, everybody's gonna be wild. And don't you know,
I mean, you know, Bachelor's gone wild. That's probably what's
gonna happen. So I can't wait to see how it
all works out without him being there and without his presence, um,
you know, being a presence in the in the show.
So we have so many contestants coming up fighting for

(01:02:34):
spots in paradise. Do you think that your book, your
new book, Live Free, could help them when it comes
to fear and anxiety around finding love? Oh, without a doubt, household,
because you know, this book is all about one uh

(01:02:54):
living free. And when I say living free, it means
that you I we are not under the mental, emotional,
or physical control of anyone or anything. And the way
that we become free is to set expectations for ourselves.
We don't allow anyone outside of us, the people we love,

(01:03:17):
the culture, we don't allow our gender, we don't allow
our race to set the expectations that we live by.
We set those expectations. So when you talk about you know,
the contestants start to find love and being single first
and foremost, And I talked about this in the book.
There's a whole section in this book on relationships. There's
multiple chapters on relationships, on being single and how to

(01:03:39):
manage our expectations first and foremost. If you are single,
it's because you are whole. There is nothing wrong with
you as a single person. And if you are not
cultivating and practicing your happiness now as someone who is single,
I guarantee you when you get in your relationship, you

(01:04:01):
ain't gonna be happy. Why because if you're looking to,
you know, to become a contestant on the Bachelor and
and being Bachelor in paradise. Oh, because I want to
find love? Well, have you found love first in yourself?
Because if you do not look in the mirror or
when you take a selfie, if you don't love that reflection,

(01:04:22):
you then become open to manipulation. How because you're gonna
want somebody to do something for you that you're not
doing for yourself. And then it's like you learned this idea, Oh,
this person makes me happy. I think that is the
craziest statement ever. Why because the moment I say I'm

(01:04:44):
you make me happy, make means create. So I'm giving
you the ability to create what I should be creating
for myself. You can contribute to my happiness, thank you,
But I am the creator of my happiness. And so
if somebody is trying to be a contestant, the way
to do it is through confidence of self. You know

(01:05:05):
who you are. You are great with what you have
to offer. And the more you learn to love yourself,
and the more you at least the power of your singleness,
you're going to be a better evaluate or of the
people that try to court you or trying to date you,
because you're gonna be like, now, you don't actually love you,
You don't love you. And if you don't love you,

(01:05:25):
a no way you're gonna even learn how to love me.
So I'm gonna move on, right. So there's so much
knowledge in this book that absolutely would help somebody. I think,
you know, not only just succeed in the show, but
succeed in their love life no matter what happens on
the show. Yeah, going on Paradise Bachelor, I think it's
difficult not to have expectation. You know, you see everyone

(01:05:49):
else going through it, and you're thinking that could be me.
I couldn't find love, and you you know, you have
an idea of maybe the Bachelor bachelrette whole in Paradise
is going to be and you have an expectation of
I can see myself with the person. Yeah, so what's
your what's your advice for people going on the show, Like,
how do you not have expectation? After it's all out there?
You know, here's the reality. There's an expectation and it

(01:06:12):
means a strong belief about what should happen. So what happens?
So you gotta ask you questions in order to have
an expectation. In the book, I talk about you have
to learn, we have to learn the process of setting expectations.
That comes down to two questions. One, is the expectation
I have realistic or unrealistic? What how do I know
what's realistic? Is it in my control? Two? Is it

(01:06:36):
is it's spoken or unspoken? Does the expectation need to
be communicated? So first, for the first question, let's talk
about the show. Okay, So I have an expectation that
this show is going to deliver love. Do I control it? No? No, no, no.

(01:06:59):
So why is this so important? Is because listen, I'm
not I've watched the show, so I'm not the only one.
Millions of people see people go on you know, Bachelor
in Paradise, Bachelor and lose their minds because they cite
themselves into thinking that if love doesn't happen for me
during this production, love ain't gonna happen for me. M
It's not true. It's just it's just it's not true.

(01:07:22):
So you go into the show not getting out of
it what you could because you need from the show
more than you're actually bringing to the show. Yeah, So
when you talk about expectations, it's like the best way
to go into the show is to have this expectation
I'm gonna be my best self. I'm gonna be open

(01:07:42):
to love. I'm gonna be the love I want to receive.
I'm gonna enjoy the experience, and I'm gonna let the
result be whatever the result is. If I don't find love,
it's not a reflection on me. If I don't find love,
it's not becauause I'm not lovable. If I don't find love,
it's not because I'm not valuable. I just didn't find
him up. Okay, great, cool, Let me keep moving right.

(01:08:04):
Let me go in for the experience. Let me let
me let me take the expectation off outside of the
expectation that I control is, which is how how you
actually can go onto the show. The other thing is
this the second part of the setting expectation is critical communication. Listen,
if I was ever on these shows, oh boy, listen, Hey,

(01:08:27):
here's the thing. This is something y'all ask my question.
I'm gonna give you. Here's things. I think there's way
too much kissing on these show, way too much the kissing.
Come on, I understand, y'all, do it. I get it.
I am not judging. There's the reason why I say why.
I am correlating communication. This is this is the author
of the weight here exactly. No. But here's the thing.

(01:08:50):
I don't have a problem with kiss And I'm just saying, like, yo, like,
wait a minute, wait a second, hold on a second.
First of all, what what what is your intention? What?
What's what's going on with you? Like? Who are Like?
Before I decide don't want to kiss you, I need
to know what's going on with you? Who are you? Who? Who?
Here's who I am right like And here's the thing

(01:09:13):
I do not want to to because listen, y'all, listen,
I'm just telling my truth. Talk about expectation. So physically,
what happens is Oh, even with the fantasy suite, Oh
so you know, and that was a part last season.
I was like, man, this, this, no, this too, it's
too much for me. You're gonna have a fantasy suite

(01:09:35):
with these three women. I don't know what you did.
I don't know what you didn't do. And then you
come out of it. Oh man, Well, let's say that experience,
you know, let's say there was a sexual experience, and
let's say that sexual experience wasn't exactly what you wanted.
So then because it didn't meet your expectation. In a moment,
you come out and you discard somebody actually could have
been the right fit. My gosh, h yeah, who listen,

(01:10:01):
who gets it right the first time? No one, No
one especially exactly. So this is this is this is
why if you know I would listen, I'd be talking.
I'd be say, hey, what so, so you want to

(01:10:22):
go into this sweep? What is your expectation. Let's get
it clear now. I want to know what you're expecting
to go down in there, right, because the more we communicate,
then the more information you have to know how you
want to navigate the situation. This book is all about
getting the power back you can know. Okay, let's say
you're in a situation where you know, hey, the fantasy suite,

(01:10:45):
they tell you, hey, you know what I wanna You know,
I want to It's about I want to have sex
and see if that were compatible on that way. Now
you have the information, but you have the choice that
that's what you want to do versus not asking the question.
And then you get into a city suation that maybe
you didn't even want to necessarily do that, but because
it's already kind of happening, and the cameras, you just

(01:11:07):
go with it in your heart. You're like, man, I
didn't really want to do that. This book and this
message is all about taking the power back. I think
your book Live Free should be required reading for everybody
that's going into Paradise and Bachelor, hands down, right, because
we get in our own heads, you know what I mean,
Like while you're in the experience, you're completely in your head.

(01:11:29):
So I think I think this book is really everyone
retired reading everybody going on the spread. Last book the
way before going to do Bachelor Winter Games, and it
was like all the words that I needed to read beforehand.
I am a member of the Church of Devon. Franklin
your shift, but like your shift after that, I'd say,

(01:11:54):
I would say you, the way you've approached Winter Games
was completely different than you had approached other, you know,
other episodes of the show. So I think it were
I told him last time. I was like, I went
from being single all my twenty nine years to reading
his book and then being engaged six months later. Yeah,

(01:12:14):
that's amazing. So if you ever need like one of
those things where people right on the back of your book,
A couple of quotes there's my quote for you, that
testimonial I'm coming for you. Don't worry. Thank you. I
appreciate that in advance. All right, Well to all of
our friends heading to Paradise, into all our single friends

(01:12:36):
and married friends and dating friends and all all our
I think there's something in live free for everyone. Where
can they get it? Where do you want them to
get it? Besides Amazon? Um, I know they take they
take fifty percent of your book sales. I know that's
not your top choice. Oh man, Hey, they can come
to my website, Damon Frankman dot com. I got all

(01:12:59):
the retailers there and they can have their pick on
where they would live free from, so you can live
free on Devon Franklin dot com. Amazing, Devon, you are
a wonderful guest. Thank you for being here, Thank you
for having me and Kindle is great to meet you,
great to meet you. All right, Well, that was just

(01:13:20):
a fantastic time and Kendall, you've been a fantastic co host.
Thanks for sticking around on this long podcast with me,
going through all those headlines and having a nice little
spiritual experience with Devon together. No, thank you so much
for having me any time. Absolutely loved it, especially talking
to Von. He's great. Thank you, We appreciate you. We'll
take you up on that alright. So I think you've

(01:13:41):
been here a time or two since us and you've
done a sign off with us. So here's how it goes. Guys,
we'll see you next week. Thank you so much for listening.
You can always rate and comment on our podcast if
you like it or if you don't, you know whatever,
until then, I appreciate you, Love you, sending off. I've
been Ashley, I've been candled too. Followed the Benn and

(01:14:05):
Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on I Heart Radio or
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