September 30, 2024 • 38 mins
Danielle and Simone celebrate an author from Reese's Book Club with an all new installment of Shelf Life. Author and contributing New York Times opinion writer Margaret Renkel joins the show to talk about her book The Comfort of Crows. She was Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher and she shares what she remembers of Reese as a student as well as her love of literature and the power of paying attention to nature in our digital world.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Today on the bright Side, it's time to celebrate the
authors of Reese's Book Club with an all new installment
of shelf Life.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Today is really special.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Reese's Book Club's one hundredth pick, and we're joined
by author Margaret Wrinkle to talk about her book The
Comfort of Crows.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Fun fact.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Margaret was Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, and she's
sharing what she remembers of Reese as a student. It's Monday,
September thirtieth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn, and bright near Day
On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus
Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the garden.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Simone, It's on my Mind Monday, which is our opportunity
to start the week fresh with some inspiring perspective.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What's on your mind today? Okay, first, I'm going to
start with a temperature check. How do you feel when
I say the term humility?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hmm?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How does it feel in your body?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Danielle, It's one of my favorite words. I love people
who exemplify humility.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think it's actually a sign of confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hmm. I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Say more about that.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think people that are humble know their own worth
and so they don't have to shout it to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
But I'm seeing you not.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I don't know how if you agree with me, how
do you feel about the word I do?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I totally agree with you, I think to a point.
I think that for a long time, women in particular
were conditioned to be humble at the expense of not
celebrating their skills, their accomplishments, right, And I saw that
in my own home, Like my mom raised me to
be extremely humble, and she is an extremely humble woman.
(01:55):
But sometimes I do have mixed feelings about that term,
because I wonder if you can be too humble and
sell yourself short. Yeah, okay, so I've aired my baggage
about the word humility. But I recently came across an
article in the Washington Post that's all about a different
kind of humility, and this is one that I can
undoubtedly get behind. And this is called intellectual humility. So
(02:18):
intellectual humility is acknowledging that we don't know everything, and
that even some of our most deeply held beliefs are fallible.
And research shows that intellectual humility is associated with curiosity,
open mindedness, and expanding our general knowledge. Plus, people with
more intellectual humility are also more likely to really scrutinize
(02:42):
the evidence and quote. They're less likely to fall for
misinformation and unsupported conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I also feel like they're more apt to ask questions.
Do you agree?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Of course? I think intellectual curiosity and intellectual humility go
hand in hand, and the way you get there is
through asking question yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because I feel like people that are like that, are
intellectually humble, are not afraid to not know something or
to look silly.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Not afraid to admit that you don't know something.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So how do you think we can bring more intellectual
humility to our own lives?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, the writer of this piece, Richard Sima, laid out
some ways that we can cultivate it. He says, the
first step is taking a moment to reflect. So before
you enter a conversation that you know is going to
get heated, remind yourself of all the benefits that we
just discussed that come with intellectual humility. And also get
clear on your goal for the conversation. I read this
book earlier this year, Super Communicators, by Charles Douhig, and
(03:38):
whenever people are approaching sensitive conversations, he gives this advice
come back to a shared core belief and make sure
to emphasize that in the conversation. So if things are
getting nasty, say something like, I know we both believe X,
or I know we're both aligned here. I know we
both want the same things, we just have different ways
of getting there. Mmmm. Another way to cultivate intellectual humility
(04:02):
is stepping outside yourself. I mean, one study showed that
adults who wrote diary entries in the third person instead
of the first person had more growth in intellectual humility
and open mindedness. There are actually a lot of benefits
of thinking in the third person. It can help you
kind of pull yourself out of a spiral. And when
I think about stepping outside yourself, I also think about
(04:23):
travel right, like literally and physically exposing yourself to different
perspectives and walks of life. For sure, we've talked about
this on the show before.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
But when I don't know what to do, sometimes I
think about my life as a play and then I
sit in the audience and I'm like, Okay, what would
I tell my character to do?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
WHOA, that's so cool. I don't know that I've ever
done that, but that's a really cool thought exercise. Okay. Finally,
Tip number three is just have gratitude. Emotions like awe,
love and gratitude can help us transcend ourselves and increase
intellectual humility least short term, so that can't hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I love that one, and that kind of speaks to
what we were talking about earlier. That's the gratitude and
humility are so linked.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
One of the reasons I love the word humility is
it comes from the Latin root humulus, which means low
or grounded, and it's derived from humus, but it means
earth or soil. It's so to be of the earth,
to be one with nature. And that brings us to
our guests today because she's someone who spent a lot
(05:31):
of time exploring the connection between nature and the human experience.
Margaret w Renkell is the author of the Comfort of Crows,
a Backyard Year, which tells the story of the changes
of life through seasons. She actually spent an entire year
documenting the plants and creatures in her backyard, and she
is the one hundredth book pick for Reese's Book Club. Well,
(05:53):
there's actually a deeper story there. Margaret w Renkell was
Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, so this is a
full circle.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Moment for student and teacher. Well, after ten years of
helping our students fall in love with literature and poetry,
students like Reese, Margaret is now a full time writer
and contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. So
The Comfort of Crows is her third book of essays.
Her others include Late Migrations and Graceland at Last, and
(06:22):
then her next book, Leaf Cloud Crow, is a companion
journal for the Comfort of Crows. Margaret Wrinkle joins us
after the break stay with us thanks to our partners
at missus Myers. You can learn a lot about a
person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of household
products are inspired by the garden and pack a punch
against dirt and grime. Visit missus Myers dot com. Margaret,
(06:56):
Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Danielle, Well, we're so excited to have you. Congratulations on
being at the one hundredth pick for Reese's Book Club
with your latest book, The Comfort of Crows, a backyard year.
So we heard that you thought you were being pranked
when you found out what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh, I've never gotten a text from Reese before. When
I hear from reesa is usually through an Instagram message
or an email. And so I get this text and
it says, Margaret, this is Reese, do you have a
minute to talk. I write for the New York Times,
so I have some pretty persistent trolls, and I just
thought it might be somebody trying to figure out my
(07:37):
real telephone number by pretending to be Reese, because there
had just been a feature on Rees in The New
York Times in which the author Elizabeth Echan mentioned that
I had been Reese's high school English teacher, so would
have been fresh on people's minds. Anyway, I gave her
a little quiz. I said, if you're the real Reese Witherspoon,
(07:59):
you'll know who a male teacher at Harpeth Hall in
the nineteen eighties what his name is. I figured nobody
could look that up really quick and figure it out smart.
It would have to be the real Rees, but she
popped right up. Tad worked and I said, yes, Hi, Rees.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well you both shared this really touching video after the
announcement was made, and it's this video where you two
are walking through the halls of the school where Reese
studied English under you. You're in the library, you're looking
through books together, and you both got really emotional as
you were reconnecting. What was that feeling like reconnecting again?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It was what she was saying, More than you know,
I hear from Rees from time to time. Sometimes several
years might pass, but I feel like I never miss
shows she's in. I never missed films she's made. I
watch movies that Hello Sunshine and series is that Hello
Sunshine produce, even when Reese is not in them soup.
(08:58):
For all these years, I've felt like I've been there,
you know, right beside her, even though I haven't been.
So really, my emotional response to that what was happening
in the library and that video was more about what
she was saying at that moment, because she really it's
not entirely it's not true, it's really not true at all,
(09:20):
but she believes that It's true that I'm the one
who made her understand the power of stories and the
power of telling stories where people see themselves and recognize
themselves in those stories. I remember what she was like
as a teenager, and I didn't plant that seed in her.
It was already there. It had been there. I think
(09:43):
it had probably been there all her life.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, she talks about being obsessed with stories from the
time she was like six.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You know, yes, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm sure you just nurtured that seed, that that was
already there. Well, it was.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Such a huge part of her. She had already started
making MOVI. She was just this kid, but she was
making her second movie the first semester she was away.
I mean, my only communication with her the first semester
I taught her was through a fax machine. I sent
notes and quizzes and reading assignments and writing assignments to
(10:19):
her on set tutor. And then the next semester I
was on maternity leave, And so it was the next
year that I really got to know her. And I
think it was probably not accidental that it was my
first class as a mother, The first time I was
seeing these teenage girls as almost like my daughters. So
(10:43):
the connection with the students I taught that year was
especially fierce and strong. But I also just think that
Reese was hungry for those stories in those conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
There's something that happens when you become a mom where
you start to see everyone as someone else's child. At
least I don't know that happened for me, it's.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
True, and I felt like I, you know, in the
in my early years as a teacher, I thought of
my students as my almost like myself as a young girl,
or like my younger sister. But it was a very
big shift in how I understood that these were someone's
children and they were entrusted into my care in a
(11:28):
way that I hadn't really understood before.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
When you say she credits you with her love of
stories and really understanding the importance, what do you think
she's crediting? How did you teach? What's the thing that
you think has stuck with her.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
She has said in earlier interviews that I taught her
to love hard stories, like hard books, not to be
afraid of hard books. I don't know if that's true.
I think it's probably that I offered a kind of
permission to love a hard book. One of my favorite
books when I was in eighth grade has someone else's
(12:06):
handwriting on the back of the cover paperback of Edith
Hamilton's Stories of Greek and Roman Mythology, And in somebody
else's handwriting it says, this book is so boring, But
I remember loving it, just absolutely drinking it in. And
so I think what maybe she might have meant is
that I was loving hard stories, not just hard stories,
(12:30):
not just hard books, and not just hard poems, but
that it was possible to love something that you did
have to sometimes invest a little bit of effort into.
It wasn't like surrendering to a book the way we
talk about it now. It was more of an intensity
than that. And I think it's good to read hard books,
but I think it's good to read books that transport
us to I think we have different needs at different
(12:53):
times of our lives, and even in different days of
the week, what are we looking for? Both are valuable,
we don't have to choose.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
In much of your writing, you explore the connections between
nature and love and loss and the human experience, and
in this book you often observe how nature adapts and
thrives despite challenges. So you're sharing personal memories. What has
nature taught you about your own life and how has
it helped you process your experiences?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, you know, I've been writing for all my life,
really from when I could first hold a pencil. But
I hadn't written a book until my mother died, and
it was a very sudden death. She was eighty. It
wasn't that she was young, but her mother had lived
to be ninety seven, and her grandmother had lived to
(13:44):
be ninety six. And my great grandmother grew up in
an age without antibiotics or vaccines or she came from
a line of very long lived women, and I thought
I would have her for another decade dec and a half.
And she died very suddenly of a cerebral hemorrhage, and
I was completely I just was lost. A few years
(14:10):
before she died, she moved into the house across the
street from me. She had dinner with our family every
single night. She was a part of my daily life,
and suddenly she was gone. I took a lot of
comfort from watching that cycle play out in the natural
world outside my window. Because all living things die. We
don't think about it, but that's what happens. And what
(14:33):
I saw out there was that animals grieve. When a
squirrel loses a partner, or a hawk gets a squirrel's partner,
or a hawk gets a squirrel's baby, the squirrel sits
in the tree and cries, keens, just despair and grief.
But it still goes on. And when you see creature
(14:57):
after creature facing the same thing and going on, it
felt like a reminder. That's not why they went on,
It's just that it was a reminder that this is
just a part of the cycle of how it works,
and there's a beauty in it. Older people die because
(15:18):
babies are still being born and we have to have
room for them. It's part of how it works. And
that was very comforting to me during that time. And
then there's so many other ways you see resilience and
the willingness to try again and move on in all
kinds of situations. The flowers that are blooming for the
(15:40):
bees today won't be blooming tomorrow, and the bees will
find new flowers. They're not cursing the fact that their
steady supply of this particular blossom is no longer blooming.
They just go on to the next flower. I think
that's a nice reminder.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That change is ever present way of describing it. I'm
curious how your understanding of home has evolved over time,
both as a physical space and kind of as a
metaphor for where we feel most grounded.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I think that I.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Am a very I'm a homebody, like I used to laugh.
My husband, he's got an itchy foot, he loves, he
has a lot of wonderlust. He's a school teacher still,
and as soon as school is out he wants to
hit the road and go somewhere. And one day I
said to him, Honey, there are two kinds of people
in the world. There are travelers and there are gardeners.
(16:33):
And you're a traveler and I'm a gardener, and we're
just you know, we're still just fine in our wife
through that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And they marry each other, those two types of.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
People, they marry each other. Well, we certainly did. But
I am very happy, very grounded in my little yard.
But I think in a bigger sense, in some ways,
I think we're just really imprinted on the landscape that
forms us, not necessarily the one we're born, but the
(17:01):
one where we spent our childhood and so pine trees.
When I see pine trees, I feel at home because
I grew up in the pine woods of Alabama. I
don't live there, I haven't lived there since I was
twenty two years old. But a pine tree makes me
feel like home. Maybe most people feel that way about
(17:22):
It might not be a pine tree. It might be
a particular kind of oak or a particular kind of grass.
But we see that and we respond to it. We
feel this powerful pull toward it because we are creatures
of the natural world, even though we live in houses,
and we recognize that we are drawn to the landscapes
that make us.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back. Stay with us, and we're back, Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I think you would love my backyard and my parents backyard,
because we live down the street from each other, and
we live in this desert area of Los Angeles, so
we have all kinds of wildlife. We've got bobcats, we've
got coyotes, we've got red tailed hawks. And my mom
is not such a big fan of the wildlife, Margaret.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
My mother wasn't anywhere. I'll tell you the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I come over to my mom's house one day and
She's like on her hands and knees spraying this substance
around her yard. And I was like, Mom, what are
you doing? And She's like, Oh, I'm spraying wolf peece
so the coyotes won't come and eat my grandbabies.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
This is well, I'm prod the mechanism, Margaret. I want
to ask about something you said about the landscapes we
grow up with. I think the Southern landscape feels so
central to your identity in your writing as well. How
has this connection to place shaped how you write and
(18:55):
how you move throughout the world.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You know, most people don't think of the South this way,
but the South is a hotbed of biodiversity. And part
of the reason for that is that so much of
the South is still rural. Before air conditioning, there was
no industrial revolution in the American South, really because it
was impossible for people to live here. They couldn't imagine. Now,
(19:19):
everybody moves here from everywhere else in the world. We
have a huge immigrant population. We have a huge migratory
population of people coming from California and from Chicago and
from New York because they like it it's a little warmer,
among other things. But I think that because I was
so interested in lizards and toads and frogs and bats
and birds and little crawling things of every kind. And
(19:43):
to still have that biodiversity, I mean, it's being lost rapidly,
as it is everywhere because people haven't learned to treasure
it and protect it. But we have plants growing just
on the side of the road in rural Alabama. I'm
a rural Tennessee rural Georgia that are on the endangered
species list because they live in such a specific ecosystem
(20:09):
and you can still just stop at a vacant lot
and see them. Now, if you stop somewhere to put
gas in your car and just walk next door, there's
very likely to be something blooming there that you will
never see anywhere else in the world. And I think
that's part of it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Margaret. I want to tell you about my experience reading
The Comfort of Crows. I find myself often rushing through
books so that I can check them off my backlog list,
not all of them, but some of them, because I
always have this like productivity monster on my shoulder that's
like be more efficient, do things, you know faster, and
get things done. But when I read your writing, I
(20:47):
completely slow down, and no one does this to me.
You have these magical powers where your words just completely
like call me and give me this piece. And one
of my favorite quotes from your book is this one.
The natural world's perfect indifference has always been the best
cure for my own anxieties. And I just found so
(21:08):
much comfort in your book and your writing, and it
felt like a refuge for me even as I was
moving through some daily stressors of my own. So asking,
as someone who's envious of that kind of writing talent,
what's the secret to perfecting writing that makes the reader
move at a gentler pace.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
You really couldn't have said anything that would make me happier,
because that is exactly what I hoped would be the
effect of the comforter Crows. And I'll just be completely
honest because that's I wrote that those essays to do
that for myself, because I am as prone to racing
(21:46):
thoughts and anxieties and worries and to do lists that
never get done as anybody is. It's kind of like
when people say how do you maintain your sense of optimism?
And my kids laugh because I am not an optimistic person.
But when I write what I'm writing is in some
(22:08):
ways what I need to read in the process of
putting words on the page, And for me, they almost
always start with a pen or a pencil and a notebook.
Lining words up one after another after another after another
is a kind of focus that my brain doesn't naturally
(22:29):
have in any other context. So even if I'm pulling
weeds or I'm walking on a trail in the park,
my mind is running pretty wild. But when I'm writing
word by word by word by word, I can't race ahead.
If I'm typing, I can because I can type really fast,
but I can't write any faster than I can write,
(22:51):
And I think that that's physical slowness has a way
of slowing my racing thoughts as well. And I do
think that you don't have to be writing an essay
a week about your wild neighbors to have this effect.
But if people can bring themselves to write down a
(23:11):
few words, to give themselves permission, first of all, to
put the phone down and just go and sit and
listen to the birds, or to watch what's happening among
the wild creatures. What are the bees doing in the flowers,
and why are some of them still in some of
them moving so quickly and studying them and trying to
figure it out. Oh, that one's asleep. That bee is asleep,
(23:36):
it's gotten tired, and the other bees are still working.
So when you have permission to slow down and pay
attention and then to word by word by word, write
down your thoughts about what you've seen or what you've heard,
or what you're experiencing, it has that way of slowing
the autonomic nervous system. It makes your heart beat slower,
(23:56):
it makes your thoughts stop racing. It always has for me.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's so clear from reading this book that you experience
nature differently. So can you take me into your world
for a minute. How do you experience nature?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Walk me through the first couple of things that you
do when you're outside.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It's almost unconscious, I think. For me, I don't think. Okay,
first I'm going to check the flowers. Then I'm gonna
check the trees, then I'm gonna check the very bearing
bushes I've planted. I've been We've been in our house
twenty nine and a half years, so we've over the years.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It was just the.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Typical sterile suburban backyard with privet and nandinas and use
just regular old landscaping plants that don't feed wild animals.
And we've slowly added over the years native plants, plants
that are native to the South that produce berries or
(24:56):
produce seeds or nuts, so that there's always something to
feed the hungry creatures in the yard. And if you
have planted to feed the wildlife, the wildlife comes to you.
So you're just kind of looking around, Okay, what's blooming,
but also who's drinking in the nectar? Oh, I didn't
(25:18):
realize that hummingbirds also eat insects. They're not just drinking
nectar from flowers. In the process of observing, you're taking
mental note. This is a world. Every single day there's
something I didn't know about the world. And you would
think at my age, I'm sixty two, i'll be sixty
three next month, and I've been doing this for a
(25:40):
long long time, there wouldn't be any real surprises in
this yard. But there always are, and so I'm looking
for the surprises. I'm just wandering around with no agenda.
I'm just looking at what catches my ear, catches my eye,
what's scent I can follow to see if something's blooming
that I hadn't realized was in bloom. I have a
(26:02):
bird bath on my deck rail. I have a bird
bath on a pedestal in the yard. I have a
dish of water low to the ground for creatures like
possums and raccoons and foxes. And you put water out,
you bring wildlife very close, and they don't. You can't
just sit on the backsteps and watch them come up
(26:22):
and drink, but you can stand in the window and look.
I do a lot of spying on my wild neighbors.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I think you're a Disney princess, Margaret, and you didn't
even realize it. You're snow white. I mean, you just
you can't change my mind.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
With the little birds lighting on my finger.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
As you mentioned earlier, you're a contributing opinion writer for
The New York Times, and you recently addressed this the
Freedom to Read campaign, which was launched in response to
the growing trend of book bands. It feels so crucial
to protect diverse stories and diverse perspectives. What do you
think the consequence is of book banning.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It's a penalty, I think primarily for children who don't
have the resources, the economic resources to buy books, because
the public library has always been for everybody, and school
libraries have always been for everybody in that school population.
When you have people saying these books, I don't want
(27:27):
my children to possibly run across these books, and then
in the process deny other people's children of access to
those books, it's anti democratic. I think it's the opposite
of what this country is about. We're about freedom. If
you don't want your child to read a book, don't
let the child read the book, but don't take it
(27:49):
out of the library, because if your child. Most of
the time, these book bans are happening in suburban school
systems where people are prosperous, but not every member of
that community is prosperous. So in some families, if the
book is not available in the library, they'll go buy it,
but many families can't afford to buy it, and it
(28:12):
has the way of stifling individuality, stifling freedom, stifling truth.
I believe because the truth of America is the truth
of diversity of many many different points of view, many
many different human experiences, all coming together to believe in
(28:36):
this idea of freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, we're going to get to hear your point of view.
In your own voice right now, because we would love
for you to read for us from the comfort of crows.
This passage is from the Fall Week one chapter. It's
called the Season of Making Ready.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The season of making ready Fall week one. Fall is
hurricane season, and whenever the Gulf Coast takes a wallop,
the rains barreling north usher in a few blessedly cool
days in the midst of our usual heat and haze.
I wouldn't wish a hurricane on anyone, but I admit
(29:19):
to feeling grateful for the rain. One September I drove
home to Alabama while a gray mist turned the Appalachian
foothills into a landscape of enchantment. Fog gathered in the
valleys and edged the fields. Shreds of clouds clung to
the trees like a shroud. Solitude and silence made it
(29:43):
easy to forget the existence of anything else. What is
an automobile? What is an interstate? When all the world
is folded into mist? I have to work to love September,
that in between time, when the heavy heat lingers, but
the maple leaves have already started to turn. Everyone is
(30:07):
making ready, preparing in this time of plenty for the
days of want ahead. In the garden, only the xenias
are still blooming, and even they are shabby and dusted
with mildew. The gleaming crows cling to the power lines panting.
(30:28):
The indefatible bees and butterflies aren't troubled by the xenia's
curling leaves or the gray powder that coats them. Our
resident hummingbirds are gone now, but weary migrants keep arriving
to visit the fresh blooms. As much as hurricane rains
in the Gulf can bring relief to us here in Tennessee.
(30:52):
It's wrong to hope for rain while butterflies and hummingbirds
are on the wing for travel. The journey is long
for residents. The preparation is hard for all of us.
Winter is coming.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Where were you mentally when you wrote that chapter.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I had just made that drive when I wrote the
first draft of it, and when I came back to
it to work on whether it could work in this book,
I could go right back. I could remember that exact thing,
the mists clinging to the tops of the trees alongside
(31:38):
the interstate, where it felt like I was in a
magical landscape, and I wasn't in a car, and there
were no other cars, and there was no interstate. It
was just me and the mist and my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There were so many engaged readers who had questions for you,
and so we're going to answer some listener questions.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
If you're up for it. Oh, I can't wait, Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So first step, we have Lisa, who has a special
connection to you.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Hi, Margaret.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Like Greece, I was fortunate to have you as my
high school English teacher. Much to my dismay at the time.
You refuse to allow me to hide in the back
of your class and write notes to my friends. You
challenged me to overcome my shyness, and you empowered me
with your feedback about my writing and interpretation of poems.
I gained so much confidence in myself in your class
because of how you saw me. It changed how I
saw myself. I use those skills every day as a psychologist,
(32:30):
and I don't believe I would have had the confidence
to pursue my doctorate in psychology had I not had
you as my teacher. Your book The Comfort of Crows
just deep in my appreciation and awareness of the natural
world through your beautiful descriptive imagery. To me, your writing
about this topic feels like an exercise of mindfulness and
how to hold grief and enjoy simultaneously. There was so
(32:52):
much gratitude and wonder about the beauty of this world
in your essays, alongside sadness and despair. What's the biggest
life lesson you're hoping people will take away from your words?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Gosh?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Well, First of all, as I said to Es, I
will also say to you, Lisa, I did not teach
you those things. They were already in you, and they
were already visible to me. I think all I had
to do was work a little bit to make you
see that they were there too. So I think you
would have found that courage to get that PhD and
(33:25):
change other people's lives no matter what. But I'm really
grateful that you think I had even a small hand
in it. As for what I hope people will take
from the comfort of Crosey, I think you pretty much
nailed it. I want people to read this book and
fall in love with the natural world, and I want
them to do that for two reasons.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
People who are in love will fight furiously and indefatigably
to save what they love. And the world is in trouble,
and I think we all need to be for just
warriors to save what we can while we still can,
because it isn't too late. But I also want people
to fall in love with the natural world because I
(34:09):
think it's the antidote to the age we live in.
We weren't created and didn't evolve to live at the
speed of the Internet, and it's making us all nuts.
And so if everybody falls in love with the natural world,
they might set their phone down, they might step away
from their screens and feel better. And I think we
(34:30):
just all need a way to feel better right now.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, Margaret, Up next we have Melissa, who's got a
question about what you would like your readers to come
back to in the Comfort of Crows.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I first heard about your book The Comfort of Crows
last year and chose to listen to your audio version
of it, which was wonderful. It felt like a guided
meditation as I was walking my dog every day through December.
But since I kind of i flew through it in
one go, I've often thought of how this will be
lovely to return to through the years, specifically when I
(35:09):
know that I have my kind of cyclical low points
and hearing that you are a rereader, do you feel
like this book is especially meant as one to re
encounter as our own seasons change. Was that purposeful or
maybe did you have a specific overarching idea that you
would love for us as rereaders to hold on to
(35:32):
with this book.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I'm a big believer in rereading. When I was a
school teacher, I reread every book I taught every year
for ten years. And the more you reread a book,
the more you see what you missed the first time,
or you come to it almost with a new self
because the world has turned, your life has changed, you've changed,
(35:56):
and so you experienced the text in a different way,
but with the comfort of crows. I think one it
feels strange to say I think people should read it twice,
because there's so many wonderful books out there, and I
don't want to hug all the reading time. But if
you read it in one go the first time, it
(36:18):
might be nice to read it week by week, which
to every day of the week you think you might
most need a dose of a reminder to slow down,
to listen, to give yourself permission to participate in the
eternal of the natural world. If you just pick that
(36:39):
one day, whether it's Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon, and
just read the chapter that corresponds to that week of
the year. In a way, you will carry that message
with you. It'll be something you can ponder and it'll
last a little longer.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Margaret, thank you so much for joining us on the
bright Side today. This is a really special episode for us.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
It is such a special interview for me. It's so
wonderful to be with you all, and to be with
the Reese's book Club community. I'm just still dumbfounded that
this even happened. I truly have enjoyed speaking with y'all.
You This was a such interesting questions and such interesting
things to think about.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Margaret Wrinkle is the author of The Comfort of Crows,
a Backyard Year, the one hundredth book selection of Reese's
Book Club. You can find it wherever you get your books.
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Baby it's you yep.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Singer songwriter Jojo is bringing her light to the bright
Side to talk all about her new memoir Over the Influence.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
See you tomorrow, folks, keep looking on the bright side.
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Today on the bright Side, it's time to celebrate the
authors of Reese's Book Club with an all new installment
of shelf Life.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Today is really special.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Reese's Book Club's one hundredth pick, and we're joined
by author Margaret Wrinkle to talk about her book The
Comfort of Crows.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Fun fact.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Margaret was Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, and she's
sharing what she remembers of Reese as a student. It's Monday,
September thirtieth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
And I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn, and bright near Day
On My Mind Monday is brought to you by missus
Myers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the garden.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Simone, It's on my Mind Monday, which is our opportunity
to start the week fresh with some inspiring perspective.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What's on your mind today? Okay, first, I'm going to
start with a temperature check. How do you feel when
I say the term humility?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hmm?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How does it feel in your body?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Danielle, It's one of my favorite words. I love people
who exemplify humility.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think it's actually a sign of confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Hmm. I like that.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Say more about that.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think people that are humble know their own worth
and so they don't have to shout it to the world.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
But I'm seeing you not.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I don't know how if you agree with me, how
do you feel about the word I do?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I totally agree with you, I think to a point.
I think that for a long time, women in particular
were conditioned to be humble at the expense of not
celebrating their skills, their accomplishments, right, And I saw that
in my own home, Like my mom raised me to
be extremely humble, and she is an extremely humble woman.
(01:55):
But sometimes I do have mixed feelings about that term,
because I wonder if you can be too humble and
sell yourself short. Yeah, okay, so I've aired my baggage
about the word humility. But I recently came across an
article in the Washington Post that's all about a different
kind of humility, and this is one that I can
undoubtedly get behind. And this is called intellectual humility. So
(02:18):
intellectual humility is acknowledging that we don't know everything, and
that even some of our most deeply held beliefs are fallible.
And research shows that intellectual humility is associated with curiosity,
open mindedness, and expanding our general knowledge. Plus, people with
more intellectual humility are also more likely to really scrutinize
(02:42):
the evidence and quote. They're less likely to fall for
misinformation and unsupported conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I also feel like they're more apt to ask questions.
Do you agree?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Of course? I think intellectual curiosity and intellectual humility go
hand in hand, and the way you get there is
through asking question yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Because I feel like people that are like that, are
intellectually humble, are not afraid to not know something or
to look silly.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Not afraid to admit that you don't know something.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So how do you think we can bring more intellectual
humility to our own lives?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, the writer of this piece, Richard Sima, laid out
some ways that we can cultivate it. He says, the
first step is taking a moment to reflect. So before
you enter a conversation that you know is going to
get heated, remind yourself of all the benefits that we
just discussed that come with intellectual humility. And also get
clear on your goal for the conversation. I read this
book earlier this year, Super Communicators, by Charles Douhig, and
(03:38):
whenever people are approaching sensitive conversations, he gives this advice
come back to a shared core belief and make sure
to emphasize that in the conversation. So if things are
getting nasty, say something like, I know we both believe X,
or I know we're both aligned here. I know we
both want the same things, we just have different ways
of getting there. Mmmm. Another way to cultivate intellectual humility
(04:02):
is stepping outside yourself. I mean, one study showed that
adults who wrote diary entries in the third person instead
of the first person had more growth in intellectual humility
and open mindedness. There are actually a lot of benefits
of thinking in the third person. It can help you
kind of pull yourself out of a spiral. And when
I think about stepping outside yourself, I also think about
(04:23):
travel right, like literally and physically exposing yourself to different
perspectives and walks of life. For sure, we've talked about
this on the show before.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
But when I don't know what to do, sometimes I
think about my life as a play and then I
sit in the audience and I'm like, Okay, what would
I tell my character to do?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
WHOA, that's so cool. I don't know that I've ever
done that, but that's a really cool thought exercise. Okay. Finally,
Tip number three is just have gratitude. Emotions like awe,
love and gratitude can help us transcend ourselves and increase
intellectual humility least short term, so that can't hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I love that one, and that kind of speaks to
what we were talking about earlier. That's the gratitude and
humility are so linked.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
One of the reasons I love the word humility is
it comes from the Latin root humulus, which means low
or grounded, and it's derived from humus, but it means
earth or soil. It's so to be of the earth,
to be one with nature. And that brings us to
our guests today because she's someone who spent a lot
(05:31):
of time exploring the connection between nature and the human experience.
Margaret w Renkell is the author of the Comfort of Crows,
a Backyard Year, which tells the story of the changes
of life through seasons. She actually spent an entire year
documenting the plants and creatures in her backyard, and she
is the one hundredth book pick for Reese's Book Club. Well,
(05:53):
there's actually a deeper story there. Margaret w Renkell was
Reese Witherspoon's high school English teacher, so this is a
full circle.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Moment for student and teacher. Well, after ten years of
helping our students fall in love with literature and poetry,
students like Reese, Margaret is now a full time writer
and contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. So
The Comfort of Crows is her third book of essays.
Her others include Late Migrations and Graceland at Last, and
(06:22):
then her next book, Leaf Cloud Crow, is a companion
journal for the Comfort of Crows. Margaret Wrinkle joins us
after the break stay with us thanks to our partners
at missus Myers. You can learn a lot about a
person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of household
products are inspired by the garden and pack a punch
against dirt and grime. Visit missus Myers dot com. Margaret,
(06:56):
Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Danielle, Well, we're so excited to have you. Congratulations on
being at the one hundredth pick for Reese's Book Club
with your latest book, The Comfort of Crows, a backyard year.
So we heard that you thought you were being pranked
when you found out what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh, I've never gotten a text from Reese before. When
I hear from reesa is usually through an Instagram message
or an email. And so I get this text and
it says, Margaret, this is Reese, do you have a
minute to talk. I write for the New York Times,
so I have some pretty persistent trolls, and I just
thought it might be somebody trying to figure out my
(07:37):
real telephone number by pretending to be Reese, because there
had just been a feature on Rees in The New
York Times in which the author Elizabeth Echan mentioned that
I had been Reese's high school English teacher, so would
have been fresh on people's minds. Anyway, I gave her
a little quiz. I said, if you're the real Reese Witherspoon,
(07:59):
you'll know who a male teacher at Harpeth Hall in
the nineteen eighties what his name is. I figured nobody
could look that up really quick and figure it out smart.
It would have to be the real Rees, but she
popped right up. Tad worked and I said, yes, Hi, Rees.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well you both shared this really touching video after the
announcement was made, and it's this video where you two
are walking through the halls of the school where Reese
studied English under you. You're in the library, you're looking
through books together, and you both got really emotional as
you were reconnecting. What was that feeling like reconnecting again?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It was what she was saying, More than you know,
I hear from Rees from time to time. Sometimes several
years might pass, but I feel like I never miss
shows she's in. I never missed films she's made. I
watch movies that Hello Sunshine and series is that Hello
Sunshine produce, even when Reese is not in them soup.
(08:58):
For all these years, I've felt like I've been there,
you know, right beside her, even though I haven't been.
So really, my emotional response to that what was happening
in the library and that video was more about what
she was saying at that moment, because she really it's
not entirely it's not true, it's really not true at all,
(09:20):
but she believes that It's true that I'm the one
who made her understand the power of stories and the
power of telling stories where people see themselves and recognize
themselves in those stories. I remember what she was like
as a teenager, and I didn't plant that seed in her.
It was already there. It had been there. I think
(09:43):
it had probably been there all her life.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, she talks about being obsessed with stories from the
time she was like six.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You know, yes, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm sure you just nurtured that seed, that that was
already there. Well, it was.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Such a huge part of her. She had already started
making MOVI. She was just this kid, but she was
making her second movie the first semester she was away.
I mean, my only communication with her the first semester
I taught her was through a fax machine. I sent
notes and quizzes and reading assignments and writing assignments to
(10:19):
her on set tutor. And then the next semester I
was on maternity leave, And so it was the next
year that I really got to know her. And I
think it was probably not accidental that it was my
first class as a mother, The first time I was
seeing these teenage girls as almost like my daughters. So
(10:43):
the connection with the students I taught that year was
especially fierce and strong. But I also just think that
Reese was hungry for those stories in those conversations.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
There's something that happens when you become a mom where
you start to see everyone as someone else's child. At
least I don't know that happened for me, it's.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
True, and I felt like I, you know, in the
in my early years as a teacher, I thought of
my students as my almost like myself as a young girl,
or like my younger sister. But it was a very
big shift in how I understood that these were someone's
children and they were entrusted into my care in a
(11:28):
way that I hadn't really understood before.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
When you say she credits you with her love of
stories and really understanding the importance, what do you think
she's crediting? How did you teach? What's the thing that
you think has stuck with her.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
She has said in earlier interviews that I taught her
to love hard stories, like hard books, not to be
afraid of hard books. I don't know if that's true.
I think it's probably that I offered a kind of
permission to love a hard book. One of my favorite
books when I was in eighth grade has someone else's
(12:06):
handwriting on the back of the cover paperback of Edith
Hamilton's Stories of Greek and Roman Mythology, And in somebody
else's handwriting it says, this book is so boring, But
I remember loving it, just absolutely drinking it in. And
so I think what maybe she might have meant is
that I was loving hard stories, not just hard stories,
(12:30):
not just hard books, and not just hard poems, but
that it was possible to love something that you did
have to sometimes invest a little bit of effort into.
It wasn't like surrendering to a book the way we
talk about it now. It was more of an intensity
than that. And I think it's good to read hard books,
but I think it's good to read books that transport
us to I think we have different needs at different
(12:53):
times of our lives, and even in different days of
the week, what are we looking for? Both are valuable,
we don't have to choose.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
In much of your writing, you explore the connections between
nature and love and loss and the human experience, and
in this book you often observe how nature adapts and
thrives despite challenges. So you're sharing personal memories. What has
nature taught you about your own life and how has
it helped you process your experiences?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, you know, I've been writing for all my life,
really from when I could first hold a pencil. But
I hadn't written a book until my mother died, and
it was a very sudden death. She was eighty. It
wasn't that she was young, but her mother had lived
to be ninety seven, and her grandmother had lived to
(13:44):
be ninety six. And my great grandmother grew up in
an age without antibiotics or vaccines or she came from
a line of very long lived women, and I thought
I would have her for another decade dec and a half.
And she died very suddenly of a cerebral hemorrhage, and
I was completely I just was lost. A few years
(14:10):
before she died, she moved into the house across the
street from me. She had dinner with our family every
single night. She was a part of my daily life,
and suddenly she was gone. I took a lot of
comfort from watching that cycle play out in the natural
world outside my window. Because all living things die. We
don't think about it, but that's what happens. And what
(14:33):
I saw out there was that animals grieve. When a
squirrel loses a partner, or a hawk gets a squirrel's partner,
or a hawk gets a squirrel's baby, the squirrel sits
in the tree and cries, keens, just despair and grief.
But it still goes on. And when you see creature
(14:57):
after creature facing the same thing and going on, it
felt like a reminder. That's not why they went on,
It's just that it was a reminder that this is
just a part of the cycle of how it works,
and there's a beauty in it. Older people die because
(15:18):
babies are still being born and we have to have
room for them. It's part of how it works. And
that was very comforting to me during that time. And
then there's so many other ways you see resilience and
the willingness to try again and move on in all
kinds of situations. The flowers that are blooming for the
(15:40):
bees today won't be blooming tomorrow, and the bees will
find new flowers. They're not cursing the fact that their
steady supply of this particular blossom is no longer blooming.
They just go on to the next flower. I think
that's a nice reminder.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That change is ever present way of describing it. I'm
curious how your understanding of home has evolved over time,
both as a physical space and kind of as a
metaphor for where we feel most grounded.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I think that I.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Am a very I'm a homebody, like I used to laugh.
My husband, he's got an itchy foot, he loves, he
has a lot of wonderlust. He's a school teacher still,
and as soon as school is out he wants to
hit the road and go somewhere. And one day I
said to him, Honey, there are two kinds of people
in the world. There are travelers and there are gardeners.
(16:33):
And you're a traveler and I'm a gardener, and we're
just you know, we're still just fine in our wife
through that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And they marry each other, those two types of.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
People, they marry each other. Well, we certainly did. But
I am very happy, very grounded in my little yard.
But I think in a bigger sense, in some ways,
I think we're just really imprinted on the landscape that
forms us, not necessarily the one we're born, but the
(17:01):
one where we spent our childhood and so pine trees.
When I see pine trees, I feel at home because
I grew up in the pine woods of Alabama. I
don't live there, I haven't lived there since I was
twenty two years old. But a pine tree makes me
feel like home. Maybe most people feel that way about
(17:22):
It might not be a pine tree. It might be
a particular kind of oak or a particular kind of grass.
But we see that and we respond to it. We
feel this powerful pull toward it because we are creatures
of the natural world, even though we live in houses,
and we recognize that we are drawn to the landscapes
that make us.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back. Stay with us, and we're back, Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
I think you would love my backyard and my parents backyard,
because we live down the street from each other, and
we live in this desert area of Los Angeles, so
we have all kinds of wildlife. We've got bobcats, we've
got coyotes, we've got red tailed hawks. And my mom
is not such a big fan of the wildlife, Margaret.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
My mother wasn't anywhere. I'll tell you the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I come over to my mom's house one day and
She's like on her hands and knees spraying this substance
around her yard. And I was like, Mom, what are
you doing? And She's like, Oh, I'm spraying wolf peece
so the coyotes won't come and eat my grandbabies.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
This is well, I'm prod the mechanism, Margaret. I want
to ask about something you said about the landscapes we
grow up with. I think the Southern landscape feels so
central to your identity in your writing as well. How
has this connection to place shaped how you write and
(18:55):
how you move throughout the world.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You know, most people don't think of the South this way,
but the South is a hotbed of biodiversity. And part
of the reason for that is that so much of
the South is still rural. Before air conditioning, there was
no industrial revolution in the American South, really because it
was impossible for people to live here. They couldn't imagine. Now,
(19:19):
everybody moves here from everywhere else in the world. We
have a huge immigrant population. We have a huge migratory
population of people coming from California and from Chicago and
from New York because they like it it's a little warmer,
among other things. But I think that because I was
so interested in lizards and toads and frogs and bats
and birds and little crawling things of every kind. And
(19:43):
to still have that biodiversity, I mean, it's being lost rapidly,
as it is everywhere because people haven't learned to treasure
it and protect it. But we have plants growing just
on the side of the road in rural Alabama. I'm
a rural Tennessee rural Georgia that are on the endangered
species list because they live in such a specific ecosystem
(20:09):
and you can still just stop at a vacant lot
and see them. Now, if you stop somewhere to put
gas in your car and just walk next door, there's
very likely to be something blooming there that you will
never see anywhere else in the world. And I think
that's part of it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Margaret. I want to tell you about my experience reading
The Comfort of Crows. I find myself often rushing through
books so that I can check them off my backlog list,
not all of them, but some of them, because I
always have this like productivity monster on my shoulder that's
like be more efficient, do things, you know faster, and
get things done. But when I read your writing, I
(20:47):
completely slow down, and no one does this to me.
You have these magical powers where your words just completely
like call me and give me this piece. And one
of my favorite quotes from your book is this one.
The natural world's perfect indifference has always been the best
cure for my own anxieties. And I just found so
(21:08):
much comfort in your book and your writing, and it
felt like a refuge for me even as I was
moving through some daily stressors of my own. So asking,
as someone who's envious of that kind of writing talent,
what's the secret to perfecting writing that makes the reader
move at a gentler pace.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
You really couldn't have said anything that would make me happier,
because that is exactly what I hoped would be the
effect of the comforter Crows. And I'll just be completely
honest because that's I wrote that those essays to do
that for myself, because I am as prone to racing
(21:46):
thoughts and anxieties and worries and to do lists that
never get done as anybody is. It's kind of like
when people say how do you maintain your sense of optimism?
And my kids laugh because I am not an optimistic person.
But when I write what I'm writing is in some
(22:08):
ways what I need to read in the process of
putting words on the page, And for me, they almost
always start with a pen or a pencil and a notebook.
Lining words up one after another after another after another
is a kind of focus that my brain doesn't naturally
(22:29):
have in any other context. So even if I'm pulling
weeds or I'm walking on a trail in the park,
my mind is running pretty wild. But when I'm writing
word by word by word by word, I can't race ahead.
If I'm typing, I can because I can type really fast,
but I can't write any faster than I can write,
(22:51):
And I think that that's physical slowness has a way
of slowing my racing thoughts as well. And I do
think that you don't have to be writing an essay
a week about your wild neighbors to have this effect.
But if people can bring themselves to write down a
(23:11):
few words, to give themselves permission, first of all, to
put the phone down and just go and sit and
listen to the birds, or to watch what's happening among
the wild creatures. What are the bees doing in the flowers,
and why are some of them still in some of
them moving so quickly and studying them and trying to
figure it out. Oh, that one's asleep. That bee is asleep,
(23:36):
it's gotten tired, and the other bees are still working.
So when you have permission to slow down and pay
attention and then to word by word by word, write
down your thoughts about what you've seen or what you've heard,
or what you're experiencing, it has that way of slowing
the autonomic nervous system. It makes your heart beat slower,
(23:56):
it makes your thoughts stop racing. It always has for me.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's so clear from reading this book that you experience
nature differently. So can you take me into your world
for a minute. How do you experience nature?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Walk me through the first couple of things that you
do when you're outside.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It's almost unconscious, I think. For me, I don't think. Okay,
first I'm going to check the flowers. Then I'm gonna
check the trees, then I'm gonna check the very bearing
bushes I've planted. I've been We've been in our house
twenty nine and a half years, so we've over the years.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It was just the.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Typical sterile suburban backyard with privet and nandinas and use
just regular old landscaping plants that don't feed wild animals.
And we've slowly added over the years native plants, plants
that are native to the South that produce berries or
(24:56):
produce seeds or nuts, so that there's always something to
feed the hungry creatures in the yard. And if you
have planted to feed the wildlife, the wildlife comes to you.
So you're just kind of looking around, Okay, what's blooming,
but also who's drinking in the nectar? Oh, I didn't
(25:18):
realize that hummingbirds also eat insects. They're not just drinking
nectar from flowers. In the process of observing, you're taking
mental note. This is a world. Every single day there's
something I didn't know about the world. And you would
think at my age, I'm sixty two, i'll be sixty
three next month, and I've been doing this for a
(25:40):
long long time, there wouldn't be any real surprises in
this yard. But there always are, and so I'm looking
for the surprises. I'm just wandering around with no agenda.
I'm just looking at what catches my ear, catches my eye,
what's scent I can follow to see if something's blooming
that I hadn't realized was in bloom. I have a
(26:02):
bird bath on my deck rail. I have a bird
bath on a pedestal in the yard. I have a
dish of water low to the ground for creatures like
possums and raccoons and foxes. And you put water out,
you bring wildlife very close, and they don't. You can't
just sit on the backsteps and watch them come up
(26:22):
and drink, but you can stand in the window and look.
I do a lot of spying on my wild neighbors.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
I think you're a Disney princess, Margaret, and you didn't
even realize it. You're snow white. I mean, you just
you can't change my mind.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
With the little birds lighting on my finger.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
As you mentioned earlier, you're a contributing opinion writer for
The New York Times, and you recently addressed this the
Freedom to Read campaign, which was launched in response to
the growing trend of book bands. It feels so crucial
to protect diverse stories and diverse perspectives. What do you
think the consequence is of book banning.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It's a penalty, I think primarily for children who don't
have the resources, the economic resources to buy books, because
the public library has always been for everybody, and school
libraries have always been for everybody in that school population.
When you have people saying these books, I don't want
(27:27):
my children to possibly run across these books, and then
in the process deny other people's children of access to
those books, it's anti democratic. I think it's the opposite
of what this country is about. We're about freedom. If
you don't want your child to read a book, don't
let the child read the book, but don't take it
(27:49):
out of the library, because if your child. Most of
the time, these book bans are happening in suburban school
systems where people are prosperous, but not every member of
that community is prosperous. So in some families, if the
book is not available in the library, they'll go buy it,
but many families can't afford to buy it, and it
(28:12):
has the way of stifling individuality, stifling freedom, stifling truth.
I believe because the truth of America is the truth
of diversity of many many different points of view, many
many different human experiences, all coming together to believe in
(28:36):
this idea of freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, we're going to get to hear your point of view.
In your own voice right now, because we would love
for you to read for us from the comfort of crows.
This passage is from the Fall Week one chapter. It's
called the Season of Making Ready.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The season of making ready Fall week one. Fall is
hurricane season, and whenever the Gulf Coast takes a wallop,
the rains barreling north usher in a few blessedly cool
days in the midst of our usual heat and haze.
I wouldn't wish a hurricane on anyone, but I admit
(29:19):
to feeling grateful for the rain. One September I drove
home to Alabama while a gray mist turned the Appalachian
foothills into a landscape of enchantment. Fog gathered in the
valleys and edged the fields. Shreds of clouds clung to
the trees like a shroud. Solitude and silence made it
(29:43):
easy to forget the existence of anything else. What is
an automobile? What is an interstate? When all the world
is folded into mist? I have to work to love September,
that in between time, when the heavy heat lingers, but
the maple leaves have already started to turn. Everyone is
(30:07):
making ready, preparing in this time of plenty for the
days of want ahead. In the garden, only the xenias
are still blooming, and even they are shabby and dusted
with mildew. The gleaming crows cling to the power lines panting.
(30:28):
The indefatible bees and butterflies aren't troubled by the xenia's
curling leaves or the gray powder that coats them. Our
resident hummingbirds are gone now, but weary migrants keep arriving
to visit the fresh blooms. As much as hurricane rains
in the Gulf can bring relief to us here in Tennessee.
(30:52):
It's wrong to hope for rain while butterflies and hummingbirds
are on the wing for travel. The journey is long
for residents. The preparation is hard for all of us.
Winter is coming.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Where were you mentally when you wrote that chapter.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I had just made that drive when I wrote the
first draft of it, and when I came back to
it to work on whether it could work in this book,
I could go right back. I could remember that exact thing,
the mists clinging to the tops of the trees alongside
(31:38):
the interstate, where it felt like I was in a
magical landscape, and I wasn't in a car, and there
were no other cars, and there was no interstate. It
was just me and the mist and my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There were so many engaged readers who had questions for you,
and so we're going to answer some listener questions.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
If you're up for it. Oh, I can't wait, Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So first step, we have Lisa, who has a special
connection to you.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Hi, Margaret.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Like Greece, I was fortunate to have you as my
high school English teacher. Much to my dismay at the time.
You refuse to allow me to hide in the back
of your class and write notes to my friends. You
challenged me to overcome my shyness, and you empowered me
with your feedback about my writing and interpretation of poems.
I gained so much confidence in myself in your class
because of how you saw me. It changed how I
saw myself. I use those skills every day as a psychologist,
(32:30):
and I don't believe I would have had the confidence
to pursue my doctorate in psychology had I not had
you as my teacher. Your book The Comfort of Crows
just deep in my appreciation and awareness of the natural
world through your beautiful descriptive imagery. To me, your writing
about this topic feels like an exercise of mindfulness and
how to hold grief and enjoy simultaneously. There was so
(32:52):
much gratitude and wonder about the beauty of this world
in your essays, alongside sadness and despair. What's the biggest
life lesson you're hoping people will take away from your words?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Gosh?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Well, First of all, as I said to Es, I
will also say to you, Lisa, I did not teach
you those things. They were already in you, and they
were already visible to me. I think all I had
to do was work a little bit to make you
see that they were there too. So I think you
would have found that courage to get that PhD and
(33:25):
change other people's lives no matter what. But I'm really
grateful that you think I had even a small hand
in it. As for what I hope people will take
from the comfort of Crosey, I think you pretty much
nailed it. I want people to read this book and
fall in love with the natural world, and I want
them to do that for two reasons.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I think that.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
People who are in love will fight furiously and indefatigably
to save what they love. And the world is in trouble,
and I think we all need to be for just
warriors to save what we can while we still can,
because it isn't too late. But I also want people
to fall in love with the natural world because I
(34:09):
think it's the antidote to the age we live in.
We weren't created and didn't evolve to live at the
speed of the Internet, and it's making us all nuts.
And so if everybody falls in love with the natural world,
they might set their phone down, they might step away
from their screens and feel better. And I think we
(34:30):
just all need a way to feel better right now.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, Margaret, Up next we have Melissa, who's got a
question about what you would like your readers to come
back to in the Comfort of Crows.
Speaker 5 (34:45):
I first heard about your book The Comfort of Crows
last year and chose to listen to your audio version
of it, which was wonderful. It felt like a guided
meditation as I was walking my dog every day through December.
But since I kind of i flew through it in
one go, I've often thought of how this will be
lovely to return to through the years, specifically when I
(35:09):
know that I have my kind of cyclical low points
and hearing that you are a rereader, do you feel
like this book is especially meant as one to re
encounter as our own seasons change. Was that purposeful or
maybe did you have a specific overarching idea that you
would love for us as rereaders to hold on to
(35:32):
with this book.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I'm a big believer in rereading. When I was a
school teacher, I reread every book I taught every year
for ten years. And the more you reread a book,
the more you see what you missed the first time,
or you come to it almost with a new self
because the world has turned, your life has changed, you've changed,
(35:56):
and so you experienced the text in a different way,
but with the comfort of crows. I think one it
feels strange to say I think people should read it twice,
because there's so many wonderful books out there, and I
don't want to hug all the reading time. But if
you read it in one go the first time, it
(36:18):
might be nice to read it week by week, which
to every day of the week you think you might
most need a dose of a reminder to slow down,
to listen, to give yourself permission to participate in the
eternal of the natural world. If you just pick that
(36:39):
one day, whether it's Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon, and
just read the chapter that corresponds to that week of
the year. In a way, you will carry that message
with you. It'll be something you can ponder and it'll
last a little longer.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Margaret, thank you so much for joining us on the
bright Side today. This is a really special episode for us.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
It is such a special interview for me. It's so
wonderful to be with you all, and to be with
the Reese's book Club community. I'm just still dumbfounded that
this even happened. I truly have enjoyed speaking with y'all.
You This was a such interesting questions and such interesting
things to think about.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Margaret Wrinkle is the author of The Comfort of Crows,
a Backyard Year, the one hundredth book selection of Reese's
Book Club. You can find it wherever you get your books.
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Baby it's you yep.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Singer songwriter Jojo is bringing her light to the bright
Side to talk all about her new memoir Over the Influence.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
See you tomorrow, folks, keep looking on the bright side.
Hosts And Creators
Simone Boyce
Danielle Robay
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