May 23, 2024 • 33 mins
For Alexandra Hayes Robinson — AKA Hello Hayes — the journey to becoming an advice columnist started when she realized that she was a person with very big feelings. Now, with hundreds of thousands of followers across social media platforms, she uses that introspection to answer questions all about friendships, confidence, and so much more. Plus, Danielle and Simone discuss active listening and couples who sleep in separate bedrooms.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with
another edition of Asking for a Friend. Calling this Alexandra
Hayes Robinson aka Hello Hayes is here to tell us
all about the six different types of besties. It's Thursday,
May twenty third.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the
bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Danielle.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am dying to hear about this peoplehood class that
you took.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What does yet entail exactly? So? I took a listening
class and it was fabulous. I did not know what
to expect. Here's a little background. So I interviewed Julie Rice,
who is one of the co founders of soul Cycle
on my podcast Pretty Smart, and I interviewed her because
I have an obsession with questions and connection and this
(00:54):
felt like a perfect fit. She is obsessed with listening,
so obviously soul Cycle was physical health.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
This is totally different. Okay, I have lots of questions.
You're already a great listener, So did you learn anything new?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So I love that you said that because I thought, hmm,
I know how to listen. I can't imagine what I'll
learn in this class like it'll just be fun practice.
I learned a ton I went in. It was like
a group of eight people, and actually it was a
very sort of truncated version of group therapy. And they
(01:28):
give you prompts. So you're asked a question and then
you split up into pairs and you are required to
listen to somebody free talk for two minutes and repeat
back to them exactly what they said. It is very
hard to repeat all the details of what somebody said
back to them. And you're realizing, even though you listened,
(01:50):
did you really listen to what they were saying, or
were you kind of looking at their eyes or their
hair or what you felt from their body language. I
actually went a way feeling like I could be a
deeper listener.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
What I'm hearing you say is exactly what I'm hearing
you say. Is that repeating back what someone just said
to you is a powerful exercise that we can all
use in our daily communication.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
A Plus, you're a pro fantastic no notes.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So what were people sharing during the portion that you
had to listen to?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I was so embarrassed I cried to a stranger. I
think I was the only one who cried everyone else
seemed to be fine. But you know it's funny, is
I have this friend that we call each other probably
twice a year. We don't ever see each other in person,
and we call for about eight to ten minutes and
each share our deepest, darkest secrets and say like, Okay,
(02:45):
talk to you in six months. Because sometimes you cannot
share the deepest parts of you with the people closest
to you because they care too much. They're gonna want
to solve. And so this class was like, you don't
get to reply, you don't get to ask questions, you
don't get to solve someone's problems. You just have to
listen and witness them. And it's interesting when you feel
(03:07):
witnessed by someone. It's almost an emotional experience. Like this
guy who i'd never met and we'll probably never see again,
was looking deep in my eyes, hearing me out for
two minutes on something that I had been thinking about
for years. It's new, it's different.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It can be less intimidating because you don't know all
of each other's history. It's almost for some reason, it's
like easier to like start from scratch.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, it's just about the moment they don't know anything
about you. You don't know, like you don't carry anything
in or away from it. You just are witnessing somebody. Yeah.
So I actually read an article about really listening to
your partner, but in the bedroom. So the Washington Post
published this piece about couples sleeping in separate bedrooms. It
(03:51):
talks about why, how, if it's good or bad, and
some have actually said it's better for their relationships. I've
actually heard Carson Day talk about this on the Today
Show a ton Simone. This is very personal, but you
know I'm coming at you. Do you and Michael sleep
in the same bed? We do sleep in the same
bed always, yeah. Always.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The only time that I sleep in the other room
is if I have to wake up super early or
something and I don't want to disturb him. I think
there's still a huge stigma around sleeping in separate beds
in marriage.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
My grandparents did it, and they were married for like
fifty years. They were in the same room. They had
like they were such a cliche. They had those twin
beds in a small room. That's so cute, But it
was because my grandfather snored. And I think that a
lot of women have that issue. Yes, one percent. I've
learned in marriage watching friends and family like absolutely to
each their own. But you know that I want to
(04:43):
crawl into somebody's skin, So I can't even fathom this.
Like the whole point of having a partner to me
is being so close. Like I definitely want to sleep
in the same bed with you. I want to be
inside your sweatshirt. Again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I have a clam feeling when I hear you speak
like this, But I love that for you. I want
that for you.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I don't see anything wrong with this.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
If this is something that would make you happier, if
you think that this is going to strengthen your relationship,
I get it. I'm I think it also has to
do with, like your upbringing. I was an only child
for most of my life, so I'm hyper independent. So
the idea of this sounds like pretty great to me, honestly.
(05:29):
But okay, here's here's my proposition, Danielle. You have separate beds,
but then there's an option to sleep together every now
and then, just for the sake of connection.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I'm sure that's an option for people like you get
to do. That's a good middle ground, I guess. But
you know, What's funny is sleep researchers tend to you
separate bedrooms more positively than relationship therapists do. Oh so,
the sleep researchers are like, yeah, it's good for you.
The relationship therapists are like, yeah, not so sure.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I'd love to unpack that more. I'm so curious about that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
My next question for you is if you ever let
your kids sleep in bed with you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Wow, We are pretty anti co sleeping in this house.
We have been from day one. We have always believed
in the power of sleep training, Like we sleep trained
our kids when they were about six months old. And
that's because I think it's better for the kids, and
I think it's better for the parents in the marriage.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I know people are going to come for me over
this because people have very strong opinions about co sleeping.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I have friends who their kids.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Are like four years old and they still want to
sleep in the bed with them, And I just think
that over time, it just becomes a very hard habit
to break, and it impacts your sleep. Sleep is so
essential to mental health, wellness, being a great parent. So
I think if you want to be your healthiest, you
have to let your kids sleep in a separate bed.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
When I was growing up, we used to say that
we had like, instead of musical chairs, we had musical beds.
Like everyone was in a different bed every night. And
wait what Yeah? Like when I was little, like I
wanted to sleep with my mom and then my brother
would be in my bed. It was like all over
the place. Oh, but I'm not so sure it's good
for a marriage. I'm with you. I think it's nice
(07:21):
when two parents are like. I don't think i'll I
don't have kids yet, but who knows. But I would
hope to have an arrangement like yours.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
All that to say, on the nights when my kids
do come into my bed if they've had a nightmare
or something, I love it. But I think I appreciate
it more because it doesn't always happen. It's kind of
like a little treat that I get to sleep with
them that night.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But I think that there needs to be less shame
around these decisions. So everybody, do you do what's best
for you.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And your family? Do you boo?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
All?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right? Well? After the break, Hello, Hayes is here to
tell us what to do when your friends aren't responding
to you with the group chat that's up next.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Welcome back to the bright Side, y'all and another edition
of Asking for a Friend. This is our take on
an advice column all about navigating the trickier parts of friendships. Listen,
they're beautiful, they're complex, they bring us so much joy,
and sometimes they just need a little special care and attention.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Simone a men. And today we're joined by advice columnist
Alexandra Hayes Robinson. And if you're chronically online, you might
already know her as her pen name Hello Hayes. Her
six Besties theory spoke to millions of people and really
sparked a conversation about what friendships are for and the
expectations that we place on them. So we asked her
(08:49):
to come on the show and share her wisdom with
all of us. Hayes, Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
to be here.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The first thing I noticed is that you your demeanor
was so bright. You are so bright side. I love
that you can tell that right away.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Is that like a gift of yours to read people's
read people's energy, as they say.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'd like to think I'm a little witchy, but you
just popped off the screen. We could tell.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Hayes.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You've been a writer for years, but recently you found
this incredible following is Hello Hayes, just walk us through
your journey to get here.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
The story of starting Hello Hayes begins like the very
the very first time I was aware of being a
person with very big feelings, which probably is, you know,
when I was very very young. I think that one
of my natural gifts maybe is that I have a
very rich inner world.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I spend a lot of time in my head.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I'm a naturally intuitive and introspective person, which has been
really wonderful at lots of points in life. I can
feel things like awe and compassion and really big ways,
And of course it also comes with the other side
of I feel painful things, really really big.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
And I remember.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Growing up there were times that I thought my feelings
were too big. And I think that something I'm trying
to achieve with Hello Hayes is to make my readers
listeners feel like no feeling of theirs is too big
to be discussed. But I think I sort of followed
that feeling driven work in high school. In college, I
was always on an artist's track. I studied writing in school,
(10:23):
and I was first a teacher. Being a middle school
teacher was my first job outside of college, and I
loved hanging out with kids and helping them and learning
about their lives and connecting with them on a one
on one basis. But I felt this hunger to like
share my writing more, and I felt like I wanted
to get into the break into the media world, and
(10:44):
I ended up starting over and interning for a few years,
doing everything from social media to blog articles. And I
had this like Eureka moment just before I turned thirty,
and this feeling of I've achieved everything I thought I
wanted to achieve. I've been I've climbed a corporate ladder,
I make good money, I have all of these things
(11:04):
that should be making me happy, and yet I'm not.
And starting Hello Hayes really did feel sort of like
a last resort for me of am I going to
be happy with the work I do?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Am I going to find meaning with the work I
do in the life I live? Or not? And I
downloaded TikTok in December and started making videos about topics
that interested me, which have always been feelings, relationships, hard stuff,
and it took on a life of its own from there.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Were you always the one giving advice in your friend group?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Or is that how you kind of knew that this
column had a lot of potential.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I was always the listener in my friend group.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
People always confide in me, and people have always shared
with me, like I just give off that whatever energy
you were picking up on Danielle in the beginning. Maybe
it's a similar thing. I don't necessarily give advice unless
I'm being prompted to give it, and even now with
Hello Hayes, I think my advice is much more introspective
than it is instructional, and I think that is always
(12:03):
That's always true about the advice I've given. I think
the term advice we could interpret that so many ways.
The advice I give and have always given is less
like I think you should do X, Y and Z.
It's probably more about helping the person I'm with trust
themselves more and find the answers for themselves that are
best for them, because you know what's best for me
might not be best for you.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
How would you categorize the type of advice that you give.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
It's such a there's it's like, I have no good,
clear answer for that.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I cover.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I talk about all sorts of relationships. Our relationship with others,
which could include friends, partners, family members, and our relationship
with ourselves, which could include things like self esteem confidence.
When I first started, I thought I was going to
spend more time talking about our relationship with work, because
that's the relationship that has always consumed me and still
consumes me. But people have not been so interested. I
(12:54):
don't receive so many letters about that, so maybe I'm
crazy by myself.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do you have any observations or thoughts as to why
people come to you with friendship issues and relationship issues
more than anything else.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Somebody wrote me a letter once that wasn't asking for
my advice, but she could sense from my content or
from maybe the fact that I wasn't making content for
a few days, that I was having a tough time,
and she wrote me a very supportive letter, and in
it she said that one of the things she loves
about my work and appreciates about my work is that
when people write to me with option A or option B,
(13:30):
I help them see an option C. And I think
that maybe that is what people are drawn to. The
best advice I've been given in my life is when
the advice does not just tactically tell me what to
do right now, but it kind of unlocks a new
way of thinking about something, and I can then remember
that for all sorts of different situations. I try to
do that with my work, and I think that's what
speaks to people.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I love an option ce. It's like the third door, right.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, Well, people are always saying, like, you know, should
I break up with this friend or should I ignore it?
And maybe there's another maybe there's another way in mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well that's honestly a perfect segue because we love your
viral six Besties theory and we want to share it
with our own right side besties. So here's how it goes.
You have six different categories of Bessie. Right, there's the
dead body bestie, which we will get into, the good
time bestie, the work bestie, the similar ambitions bestie, the
(14:21):
og bestie, and your north star bestie. Walk us through
these different archetypes and what they mean to you.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So and the six Besties theory was born both out
of reflecting back on how I have grown through the
friendship evolutions that we all go through, and also a
direct response to an influx of friendship questions from people
who are not processing the natural evolutions of friendship. So
I felt like I need to come up with something
(14:50):
like that will help people. One point about the six
besties before I go through them is that it's not
a list that you must have every one of these
people in your life in order to be satisfied.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Each one of them is the lens to look at.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
A relationship in your life when you are a person
who is feeling dissatisfied or when something feels messed up.
So a dead body bestie became part of my vocabulary
eight years ago with one of my best friends from
high school who moved to Vietnam after college and lived
there for several years, and we like maybe saw each other,
saw each other once a year, and maybe only spoke
(15:24):
when we would see each other, and we were catching
up after I got engaged.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
She came over.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
She had been in the States at that point, and
I we were just talking about how special it is
that our friendship is, like we don't have to talk,
but I know that if I am ever in trouble.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
You will be there for me, no questions asked.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Like, you're the person who if there was a dead
body that I needed help with, you would help me
handle that dead body. This is the town, this is
mad and quite literally yes, So it's that person in
your life. They'll never be like, where have you been
for the last two years? You could call this person
after two years and they will be there for you.
So that's the dead body bestie. The OG bestie refers
to a dear friend that you had grown up or
(16:01):
just at some point in your past that like knows
everything about you. They know your roots, they know your family,
but as time has gone on, you are not in
touch so much that friend. I see a lot of
people really struggle with, especially at like major transitions in life,
whether it's one you go to college or you graduate,
or maybe you see a new job update from that
(16:22):
friend on Instagram rather than them telling you, and you
like have a you know, mental breakdown about what that
means about your relationship when it might just mean that
they've become an OG bestie, work bestie self explanatory person
at work. This one is controversial. Sometimes people think work
is not a place for real friendships. My closest friends
have been people I've met at work in my twenties,
So I will leave that there.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, Like I don't know how I would have gotten
through any of my jobs without friends. There's the good
time bestie, which is a person who you have fun with,
you love and a door, but they might not get
you on that like deep soul sister love. The example
that comes to mind is if you are grieving your
parents divorce, the good time bestie will want to comfort
(17:07):
you in their own way of maybe going for a
brunch or hanging out or keeping company. They might not
be able to respond to you and go there in
the way that say your north star best he might,
which I'll get back to that the similar ambition bestie.
I changed that one to seasonal bestie because I thought
it sounded better. That's a friend in a certain season
of life. So it could be that you are studying
creative writing, you're like pursuing a hobby in adulthood, so
(17:29):
it's your friend and your creative writing class. It could
be someone you're meeting in your new mom's group when
none of your other friends or moms it's the friend
that's in that season of life with you. And then lastly,
there's the north Star bestie. And this is the bestie
that I think everyone wants and everyone deserves, which is
the person who being with them is like being guided home.
You know they're your compass. Conversation with them brings you
(17:51):
back to yourself when you have gone astray. One person
can be many of these. However, I think using these
archetypes of friendship can be really helpful for people who
have not yet examined their own expectations of friends in
their lives. It's really easy to just feel disappointed by everyone,
and sometimes you're disappointed in people because they really are
shit friends.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Can we swear on this podcast?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Okay, Sometimes you're disappointed because someone is a shit friend.
And sometimes you're disappointed because you yourself haven't done those
reflection exercise of thinking about what this relationship actually is
or am I expecting something of someone that they might
not be capable of. If I have a friend who
I adore, I love going on vacation with her, she's
(18:34):
down to like travel to know the other side of town,
to try the new restaurant, I don't really feel supported
by her when I'm talking about like my existential crises
related to my work. I've had people write to me
wanting to write that friend off, but I would say, well,
maybe she's your good time bestie.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And I think that the six besties theory.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
People have written to me saying that it's like it's
saved some of their friendships. There are complications with it,
and I make a point to say, you don't need
every single one of these because I don't want people
to think, oh, well, I don't have a seasonal bestie,
so like that's I'm screwed. Well, do you feel screwed?
Maybe you do need more support. Maybe you're like, oh,
I have this. I love hiking, but none of my
(19:13):
friends love to hike, and it's made me feel really
distant from them. Maybe actually, it's not a problem with
these other friends. Maybe I just need to find someone
to hike with. Maybe I'm missing a seasonal bestie. But
if you don't feel like you're missing one, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wait. I want to ask Simone about this, because the
idea of certain friends for different reasons is I think
something that not everybody like can live in the gray zone.
Are you with that? Simone, or are you more black
and white with friends?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I actually think that it's First of all, let me
start by saying I really love this framework. It makes
relationships really easy to digest, and it also makes friendships
less disposable when you consider that friendships can serve a
certain purpose and that not everyone has to be your
north Star bestie. For me, at this stage of my life,
(20:03):
in the second half of my thirties, I find myself
needing certain types of friendships more than others. So I
thankfully have a lot of north star besties and I
feel like those are those are just like the deeper,
more meaningful, more fulfilling relationships, the quality relationships, and those
are the ones that I want to surround myselves with.
(20:25):
So yeah, I think for me right now, I have
a ton of dead body besties and north star besties,
and then it is really exhilarating to make seasonal besties
at this stage of life too, because I always want
to be growing and expanding and acquiring new skills and
hopefully making new friends in the process.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
How about you, Danielle, I love that you have a
lot of dead body besties. That's so good. I feel
like I have an array of friends as well. But
I am a person who likes deep roots, and so
I have a lot of like new acquaintances. I don't
have a lot of new friends until time passes. Like
(21:11):
once you are my friend, you are my friend for life.
I don't have a ton of seasonal to be honest,
but it takes me a little bit to get there.
I'm not all in right away, if that makes sense.
So I have a lot of I would say north
Star and dead Body too, Simon.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I'm with you and I relate to both of you like.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
It's funny because people will sometimes comment like, what do
your real friends think about this? If I'm making a
new friend, I see the north Star potential in Yes.
If I meet someone new and we don't vibe or
I think they don't like me, I'm not thinking. I'm
not like stressing about it at all because I feel
confident in my other relationships. I think this expacity framework
is particularly useful for people who aren't there yet.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, I think it's particularly useful in your twenties, when
you're navigating friendships from all different sources and all different origins.
It would be really interesting to do an intergenerational survey too,
and I'd love to hear from my mom what her
assessment of her friend group looks like.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Right now, Oh, that's such a great idea.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
All right, we're going to take a quick break, but
we'll be right back with Hello Hayes.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, this is asking for a friend and we have
some friendships that could use a little love from Hello Hayes.
So I know that you've brought some letters to share
with us, right Hayes.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Absolutely, let's do it, all right. Letter one, Hello Hayes.
I have a wedding conundrum that I think only your
six besties theory can solve. I'm so excited to be
a bridesmaid in my friend's wedding. Let's call her Olivia.
What I'm less excited about is navigating the feelings of
our other friend who is not a bridesmaid.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Let's call her Julia.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
The three of us met our freshman year of college,
and we graduated several years ago. Olivia and I have
been North Star besties from the beginning, where Julia has
remained a seasonal or maybe og bestie if we count
college as an origin story. Here's where I need a
little Hayes magic. When Julia texted me about feeling excluded
from the wedding party. I wasn't surprised. I completely understand
feeling hurt when friendship's evolved in this way. However, her
(23:19):
feeling confused about this after all this time is concerning
and unrealistic. Olivia and I have been as open as
possible about our friendship without being unkind. I don't think
this is a case of her not knowing, but rather
of not accepting. How do I gently explain to her
that friendships change and it's okay to have different types
of festies. Do I finally need to give her an
honest reality check? Or do I just support her through
(23:41):
her feelings? Yours amused bridesmaid woo?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Who is right?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
So weddings bring up all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
They really really do.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
And this is one of those letters that I find
to be really interesting because the inciting incident doesn't really
have to do with the person who writes the letter,
And in this case, it's like the letter writer is
not the bride and she's not the friend who's been
left out, So right off the bat, I'm interested in
why the writer is taking responsibility for this problem now
(24:17):
It could just be because she's you know, she's been
put in the middle by Julia, but it could also
be kind of indicative of a like fixer middle child situation,
and the fact that she's bemuse bridesmaid is like already
anticipating more comments at the wedding suggests to me that
like she might be a ruminator like me. So my
(24:41):
response and my advice to her is about like managing
our own very human desire to control other people's reactions
and wanting everything to be okay, because I'd say to her,
you are not responsible for Olivia's bridesmaid's decisions, nor are
you responsible for Julia's feelings about not being a bridesmaid.
What you are responsible for is being a considerate person
(25:04):
and considerate friend. So rather than thinking about how you're
gonna solve a problem that hasn't actually happened yet, maybe
direct your attention to how can I be a good
friend to Julia? Knowing that this gave her a reaction,
And I think that could be you know, continuing to
be normal whatever normal looks like in your relationship, but
try to alleviate Julia's in securities. In another way, I
(25:25):
also think like let's give Julia some space to process
this on her own. I don't know if Julia reacted
appropriately or like what the what the exact text was,
but let's not hold Julia's initial reaction against her. If
you're not chosen to be a bridesmaid, it's completely valid
to have a hurt reaction to that. It's like one
of the most common feelings out there. Of course, how
(25:46):
we act on those feelings is another thing entirely, But
give Julia some grace. Maybe Julia just needed to say
something privately to you, and then we can move on.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
No notes, no, no, no, Julia needs to talk to
her therapist, and yeah, it's not on the other one.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's not on her. It's not on her.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
And that's why I'm so curious, Like why does she
What does it say for the person who wrote in?
I would want her to think about, like, what does
it say about me that I'm writing into an advice
column about something that isn't I'm not even directly involved in.
That's an interesting line of thinking for her to explore.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Maybe she's also the wedding planner.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
We just know.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I don't know exactly exactly, And trios are hard trios
are hard Of all of the friendship numbers, do we
think trios are the most doomed.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I think they're not doomed if each person has self efficacy,
if they really know who they are and feel confident
in it, I think it's okay. I have a trio
from college that's really strong.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Do you each have individual relationships as well? Or is
it like, yeah, tell me more?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And there's seasons. Actually, one of mine is a Julia,
and we are each closer at different times of our lives,
depending on what we're going through, And I think each
one is accepting of when other people are closer. It's
just seasonal, but the bond and the loyalties always there.
(27:14):
I love that. All right, that was a really good one.
What do you have next for us? Hayes?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
All right, hello Hayes. Is it possible to apply the
six besties theory to a group as a whole. I've
been close with the group of girlfriends for seven years,
but over the past year I've noticed that whenever I
sent something in our group chat about my life, nobody
replies or seems interested. Yet, when other members of the
group send in their updates or ask for advice, everybody replies.
The whole thing has left me confused about where I stand.
(27:40):
I've started to think that I must be boring, or annoying,
or just a bad person. I feel heartbroken. For years,
I thought these girls would one day be my bridesmaids,
and now I'm not sure if they'd even reply if
I said I got engaged. Maybe I just need to
apply the six besties theory and accept that this group
is no longer what it once was. What would you do, Hayes,
how would you move.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Forward from this?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Okay, so you can absolutely apply the six besties theory
to a group as a whole. But any bestie in
the bestI theory is still a good friend. Every single
one of the besties provides value, and sometimes to see
their value, you have to examine your expectations through the
six besties theory.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So can you apply the six besties theory to this group?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I think you should, And maybe some of those reflection
questions to help you think about whether you need to
remanage your expectations or if these people just aren't really
your friends. Like outside of the group text, what's happening?
This letter is super focused on the group text behavior.
Do you spend time with these people in real life?
What are those relationships? Like, Like, I'm curious, are you
fixating on a texting thing or a real life thing,
(28:47):
because it would be sad to write off a friendship
just because people weren't like vibing with your texts in
the exact way that you want. But like, once you've
done that self reflection exercise of am I expecting too
much of this person? If that person still sucks or
makes you feel bad about yourself, you're questioning your worth
as a person.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Something is rotten, is something has gone wrong?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Have you ever had something like this? Hayes like a.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Person not engaging with my texts.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I hear this a lot with people in terms of
not replying quick enough. People like I have family members
who talk about this and I don't necessarily agree with them,
but they say, oh, so and so doesn't reply to
my texts fast enough. I feel like it's disrespectful or
like they don't care.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
It's funny. So I get into this with my husband
a lot.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I am really bad at with my phone and texting people,
and it's gotten much worse since I have become a
person on the internet.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I'm so glad you asked that, because I hadn't really
thought about this until you just said it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's a big, big topic.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
For me right now, being better at responding to people,
particularly like my in laws. I'm not very good at
responding to like my mother in law's texts, like you
got to respond now. For me, it isn't anything beyond
my phone is a source of anxiety. Sometimes I see
a text and if I if I'm doing something, I
can't divert my attention to this text, which I know
(30:07):
sounds might sound absolutely ridiculous. A text should take a second,
as Brian, my husband, would say to me, But I
also know that it hurts people's feelings, So you know
you hear the strain in my voice because I don't
know what the answer is. Part of me is like,
you got to just understand that it's not personal, but
people do take it personally.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I know that I'm laughing because I think people with
big feelings can't reply to text quickly because we think
about each word for like it all matters so much.
I have the same issue as you do. What's your
kind of reaction to this, to this letter? I want
to know what Simon thinks. I don't.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I don't really engage in the group chat. The group chat,
like the group text gives me anxiety, so I just
I don't say anything. And then I follow up in
a couple of weeks and I'm like, Hey, do.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I owe anyone money?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What are there? What are the deadlines? Where do I
have to be? Tell me where to show up?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's communicate. You know how you can extract yourself from
a group chat? Have you ever done that? Oh? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
You just like I'll do this like Irish exit the
group chat.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I don't believe in I don't. I know, I don't
believe in group text etiquette. But I also have also
of two kids, so like I'm just like I can't
stand my phone like blowing up all the time, Like
I can't always respond.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's so funny, Hayes, Before you leave us, I want
to know who you go to advice for different people
for different things.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
So I think I apply like a six besties type
of framework to who I go to for advice. I'll
say I definitely have a few friends that I go
to for advice now, especially as it relates to my work.
As I said, that's sort of the thing that I
feel most existential about. I've learned to go to friends
who really know my strengths and my weaknesses and how
(31:48):
I can be distracted by shiny objects and help me
remember what my true goals are and what my true
strengths are. If I'm feeling overwhelmed by all of the
opportunities and I don't just mean like flashy, sexy opportunities,
but I can become overwhelmed sometimes with all of the
paths I could take, and sometimes a path will seem
really exciting because it feels like what I should do.
(32:10):
So I try to go to friends in my life
now and loved ones who immediately will help me remember
I don't there's no shulds here. What is really authentic
to you, Hayes, and I have not been so good
at that for a long time, and in the last
several months, I've tried to be more intentional about that,
because I am impressionable just like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I love that you admit that. That's so wonderful. Thanks
for asking well, Hayes. Thank you so much for being
here with us.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Oh my gosh, this was such a treat. Thank you
for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thank you so much. Hayes.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Hayes is an advice columnist, writer, and content creator. You
can find more of her friendship advice on her substack
at Hellohayes dot substack dot com, or on her Instagram
and TikTok at Hello Hayes. That's h a y e s.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
If you have any friendship questions for us, send them
over to Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com
and listen. You never know you could even be featured
in our next round of asking for a friend.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking wine ahead
of Memorial Day weekend. Somalia. Alison Morris Roslin is here
to tell us which wines are the best to order
at a restaurant and why you never need to spend
more than thirty dollars on a bottle.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I'm Danielle Robe. You can find me on the internets, Instagram,
and TikTok at Danielle Robe. That's ro Bay. I'm Simone Boys.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Simone Boye,
see you tomorrow. Y'all keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with
another edition of Asking for a Friend. Calling this Alexandra
Hayes Robinson aka Hello Hayes is here to tell us
all about the six different types of besties. It's Thursday,
May twenty third.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the
bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Danielle.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I am dying to hear about this peoplehood class that
you took.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What does yet entail exactly? So? I took a listening
class and it was fabulous. I did not know what
to expect. Here's a little background. So I interviewed Julie Rice,
who is one of the co founders of soul Cycle
on my podcast Pretty Smart, and I interviewed her because
I have an obsession with questions and connection and this
(00:54):
felt like a perfect fit. She is obsessed with listening,
so obviously soul Cycle was physical health.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
This is totally different. Okay, I have lots of questions.
You're already a great listener, So did you learn anything new?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So I love that you said that because I thought, hmm,
I know how to listen. I can't imagine what I'll
learn in this class like it'll just be fun practice.
I learned a ton I went in. It was like
a group of eight people, and actually it was a
very sort of truncated version of group therapy. And they
(01:28):
give you prompts. So you're asked a question and then
you split up into pairs and you are required to
listen to somebody free talk for two minutes and repeat
back to them exactly what they said. It is very
hard to repeat all the details of what somebody said
back to them. And you're realizing, even though you listened,
(01:50):
did you really listen to what they were saying, or
were you kind of looking at their eyes or their
hair or what you felt from their body language. I
actually went a way feeling like I could be a
deeper listener.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
What I'm hearing you say is exactly what I'm hearing
you say. Is that repeating back what someone just said
to you is a powerful exercise that we can all
use in our daily communication.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
A Plus, you're a pro fantastic no notes.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So what were people sharing during the portion that you
had to listen to?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I was so embarrassed I cried to a stranger. I
think I was the only one who cried everyone else
seemed to be fine. But you know it's funny, is
I have this friend that we call each other probably
twice a year. We don't ever see each other in person,
and we call for about eight to ten minutes and
each share our deepest, darkest secrets and say like, Okay,
(02:45):
talk to you in six months. Because sometimes you cannot
share the deepest parts of you with the people closest
to you because they care too much. They're gonna want
to solve. And so this class was like, you don't
get to reply, you don't get to ask questions, you
don't get to solve someone's problems. You just have to
listen and witness them. And it's interesting when you feel
(03:07):
witnessed by someone. It's almost an emotional experience. Like this
guy who i'd never met and we'll probably never see again,
was looking deep in my eyes, hearing me out for
two minutes on something that I had been thinking about
for years. It's new, it's different.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It can be less intimidating because you don't know all
of each other's history. It's almost for some reason, it's
like easier to like start from scratch.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, it's just about the moment they don't know anything
about you. You don't know, like you don't carry anything
in or away from it. You just are witnessing somebody. Yeah.
So I actually read an article about really listening to
your partner, but in the bedroom. So the Washington Post
published this piece about couples sleeping in separate bedrooms. It
(03:51):
talks about why, how, if it's good or bad, and
some have actually said it's better for their relationships. I've
actually heard Carson Day talk about this on the Today
Show a ton Simone. This is very personal, but you
know I'm coming at you. Do you and Michael sleep
in the same bed? We do sleep in the same
bed always, yeah. Always.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The only time that I sleep in the other room
is if I have to wake up super early or
something and I don't want to disturb him. I think
there's still a huge stigma around sleeping in separate beds
in marriage.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
My grandparents did it, and they were married for like
fifty years. They were in the same room. They had
like they were such a cliche. They had those twin
beds in a small room. That's so cute, But it
was because my grandfather snored. And I think that a
lot of women have that issue. Yes, one percent. I've
learned in marriage watching friends and family like absolutely to
each their own. But you know that I want to
(04:43):
crawl into somebody's skin, So I can't even fathom this.
Like the whole point of having a partner to me
is being so close. Like I definitely want to sleep
in the same bed with you. I want to be
inside your sweatshirt. Again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I have a clam feeling when I hear you speak
like this, But I love that for you. I want
that for you.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I don't see anything wrong with this.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
If this is something that would make you happier, if
you think that this is going to strengthen your relationship,
I get it. I'm I think it also has to
do with, like your upbringing. I was an only child
for most of my life, so I'm hyper independent. So
the idea of this sounds like pretty great to me, honestly.
(05:29):
But okay, here's here's my proposition, Danielle. You have separate beds,
but then there's an option to sleep together every now
and then, just for the sake of connection.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I'm sure that's an option for people like you get
to do. That's a good middle ground, I guess. But
you know, What's funny is sleep researchers tend to you
separate bedrooms more positively than relationship therapists do. Oh so,
the sleep researchers are like, yeah, it's good for you.
The relationship therapists are like, yeah, not so sure.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I'd love to unpack that more. I'm so curious about that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
My next question for you is if you ever let
your kids sleep in bed with you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Wow, We are pretty anti co sleeping in this house.
We have been from day one. We have always believed
in the power of sleep training, Like we sleep trained
our kids when they were about six months old. And
that's because I think it's better for the kids, and
I think it's better for the parents in the marriage.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I know people are going to come for me over
this because people have very strong opinions about co sleeping.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I have friends who their kids.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Are like four years old and they still want to
sleep in the bed with them, And I just think
that over time, it just becomes a very hard habit
to break, and it impacts your sleep. Sleep is so
essential to mental health, wellness, being a great parent. So
I think if you want to be your healthiest, you
have to let your kids sleep in a separate bed.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
When I was growing up, we used to say that
we had like, instead of musical chairs, we had musical beds.
Like everyone was in a different bed every night. And
wait what Yeah? Like when I was little, like I
wanted to sleep with my mom and then my brother
would be in my bed. It was like all over
the place. Oh, but I'm not so sure it's good
for a marriage. I'm with you. I think it's nice
(07:21):
when two parents are like. I don't think i'll I
don't have kids yet, but who knows. But I would
hope to have an arrangement like yours.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
All that to say, on the nights when my kids
do come into my bed if they've had a nightmare
or something, I love it. But I think I appreciate
it more because it doesn't always happen. It's kind of
like a little treat that I get to sleep with
them that night.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
But I think that there needs to be less shame
around these decisions. So everybody, do you do what's best
for you.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And your family? Do you boo?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
All?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right? Well? After the break, Hello, Hayes is here to
tell us what to do when your friends aren't responding
to you with the group chat that's up next.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Welcome back to the bright Side, y'all and another edition
of Asking for a Friend. This is our take on
an advice column all about navigating the trickier parts of friendships. Listen,
they're beautiful, they're complex, they bring us so much joy,
and sometimes they just need a little special care and attention.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Simone a men. And today we're joined by advice columnist
Alexandra Hayes Robinson. And if you're chronically online, you might
already know her as her pen name Hello Hayes. Her
six Besties theory spoke to millions of people and really
sparked a conversation about what friendships are for and the
expectations that we place on them. So we asked her
(08:49):
to come on the show and share her wisdom with
all of us. Hayes, Welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy
to be here.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
The first thing I noticed is that you your demeanor
was so bright. You are so bright side. I love
that you can tell that right away.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Is that like a gift of yours to read people's
read people's energy, as they say.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'd like to think I'm a little witchy, but you
just popped off the screen. We could tell.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Hayes.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You've been a writer for years, but recently you found
this incredible following is Hello Hayes, just walk us through
your journey to get here.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
The story of starting Hello Hayes begins like the very
the very first time I was aware of being a
person with very big feelings, which probably is, you know,
when I was very very young. I think that one
of my natural gifts maybe is that I have a
very rich inner world.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I spend a lot of time in my head.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
I'm a naturally intuitive and introspective person, which has been
really wonderful at lots of points in life. I can
feel things like awe and compassion and really big ways,
And of course it also comes with the other side
of I feel painful things, really really big.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
And I remember.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Growing up there were times that I thought my feelings
were too big. And I think that something I'm trying
to achieve with Hello Hayes is to make my readers
listeners feel like no feeling of theirs is too big
to be discussed. But I think I sort of followed
that feeling driven work in high school. In college, I
was always on an artist's track. I studied writing in school,
(10:23):
and I was first a teacher. Being a middle school
teacher was my first job outside of college, and I
loved hanging out with kids and helping them and learning
about their lives and connecting with them on a one
on one basis. But I felt this hunger to like
share my writing more, and I felt like I wanted
to get into the break into the media world, and
(10:44):
I ended up starting over and interning for a few years,
doing everything from social media to blog articles. And I
had this like Eureka moment just before I turned thirty,
and this feeling of I've achieved everything I thought I
wanted to achieve. I've been I've climbed a corporate ladder,
I make good money, I have all of these things
(11:04):
that should be making me happy, and yet I'm not.
And starting Hello Hayes really did feel sort of like
a last resort for me of am I going to
be happy with the work I do?
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Am I going to find meaning with the work I
do in the life I live? Or not? And I
downloaded TikTok in December and started making videos about topics
that interested me, which have always been feelings, relationships, hard stuff,
and it took on a life of its own from there.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Were you always the one giving advice in your friend group?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Or is that how you kind of knew that this
column had a lot of potential.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I was always the listener in my friend group.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
People always confide in me, and people have always shared
with me, like I just give off that whatever energy
you were picking up on Danielle in the beginning. Maybe
it's a similar thing. I don't necessarily give advice unless
I'm being prompted to give it, and even now with
Hello Hayes, I think my advice is much more introspective
than it is instructional, and I think that is always
(12:03):
That's always true about the advice I've given. I think
the term advice we could interpret that so many ways.
The advice I give and have always given is less
like I think you should do X, Y and Z.
It's probably more about helping the person I'm with trust
themselves more and find the answers for themselves that are
best for them, because you know what's best for me
might not be best for you.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
How would you categorize the type of advice that you give.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
It's such a there's it's like, I have no good,
clear answer for that.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I cover.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I talk about all sorts of relationships. Our relationship with others,
which could include friends, partners, family members, and our relationship
with ourselves, which could include things like self esteem confidence.
When I first started, I thought I was going to
spend more time talking about our relationship with work, because
that's the relationship that has always consumed me and still
consumes me. But people have not been so interested. I
(12:54):
don't receive so many letters about that, so maybe I'm
crazy by myself.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do you have any observations or thoughts as to why
people come to you with friendship issues and relationship issues
more than anything else.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Somebody wrote me a letter once that wasn't asking for
my advice, but she could sense from my content or
from maybe the fact that I wasn't making content for
a few days, that I was having a tough time,
and she wrote me a very supportive letter, and in
it she said that one of the things she loves
about my work and appreciates about my work is that
when people write to me with option A or option B,
(13:30):
I help them see an option C. And I think
that maybe that is what people are drawn to. The
best advice I've been given in my life is when
the advice does not just tactically tell me what to
do right now, but it kind of unlocks a new
way of thinking about something, and I can then remember
that for all sorts of different situations. I try to
do that with my work, and I think that's what
speaks to people.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I love an option ce. It's like the third door, right.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, Well, people are always saying, like, you know, should
I break up with this friend or should I ignore it?
And maybe there's another maybe there's another way in mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Well that's honestly a perfect segue because we love your
viral six Besties theory and we want to share it
with our own right side besties. So here's how it goes.
You have six different categories of Bessie. Right, there's the
dead body bestie, which we will get into, the good
time bestie, the work bestie, the similar ambitions bestie, the
(14:21):
og bestie, and your north star bestie. Walk us through
these different archetypes and what they mean to you.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So and the six Besties theory was born both out
of reflecting back on how I have grown through the
friendship evolutions that we all go through, and also a
direct response to an influx of friendship questions from people
who are not processing the natural evolutions of friendship. So
I felt like I need to come up with something
(14:50):
like that will help people. One point about the six
besties before I go through them is that it's not
a list that you must have every one of these
people in your life in order to be satisfied.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Each one of them is the lens to look at.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
A relationship in your life when you are a person
who is feeling dissatisfied or when something feels messed up.
So a dead body bestie became part of my vocabulary
eight years ago with one of my best friends from
high school who moved to Vietnam after college and lived
there for several years, and we like maybe saw each other,
saw each other once a year, and maybe only spoke
(15:24):
when we would see each other, and we were catching
up after I got engaged.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
She came over.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
She had been in the States at that point, and
I we were just talking about how special it is
that our friendship is, like we don't have to talk,
but I know that if I am ever in trouble.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
You will be there for me, no questions asked.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Like, you're the person who if there was a dead
body that I needed help with, you would help me
handle that dead body. This is the town, this is
mad and quite literally yes, So it's that person in
your life. They'll never be like, where have you been
for the last two years? You could call this person
after two years and they will be there for you.
So that's the dead body bestie. The OG bestie refers
to a dear friend that you had grown up or
(16:01):
just at some point in your past that like knows
everything about you. They know your roots, they know your family,
but as time has gone on, you are not in
touch so much that friend. I see a lot of
people really struggle with, especially at like major transitions in life,
whether it's one you go to college or you graduate,
or maybe you see a new job update from that
(16:22):
friend on Instagram rather than them telling you, and you
like have a you know, mental breakdown about what that
means about your relationship when it might just mean that
they've become an OG bestie, work bestie self explanatory person
at work. This one is controversial. Sometimes people think work
is not a place for real friendships. My closest friends
have been people I've met at work in my twenties,
So I will leave that there.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, Like I don't know how I would have gotten
through any of my jobs without friends. There's the good
time bestie, which is a person who you have fun with,
you love and a door, but they might not get
you on that like deep soul sister love. The example
that comes to mind is if you are grieving your
parents divorce, the good time bestie will want to comfort
(17:07):
you in their own way of maybe going for a
brunch or hanging out or keeping company. They might not
be able to respond to you and go there in
the way that say your north star best he might,
which I'll get back to that the similar ambition bestie.
I changed that one to seasonal bestie because I thought
it sounded better. That's a friend in a certain season
of life. So it could be that you are studying
creative writing, you're like pursuing a hobby in adulthood, so
(17:29):
it's your friend and your creative writing class. It could
be someone you're meeting in your new mom's group when
none of your other friends or moms it's the friend
that's in that season of life with you. And then lastly,
there's the north Star bestie. And this is the bestie
that I think everyone wants and everyone deserves, which is
the person who being with them is like being guided home.
You know they're your compass. Conversation with them brings you
(17:51):
back to yourself when you have gone astray. One person
can be many of these. However, I think using these
archetypes of friendship can be really helpful for people who
have not yet examined their own expectations of friends in
their lives. It's really easy to just feel disappointed by everyone,
and sometimes you're disappointed in people because they really are
shit friends.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Can we swear on this podcast?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Okay, Sometimes you're disappointed because someone is a shit friend.
And sometimes you're disappointed because you yourself haven't done those
reflection exercise of thinking about what this relationship actually is
or am I expecting something of someone that they might
not be capable of. If I have a friend who
I adore, I love going on vacation with her, she's
(18:34):
down to like travel to know the other side of town,
to try the new restaurant, I don't really feel supported
by her when I'm talking about like my existential crises
related to my work. I've had people write to me
wanting to write that friend off, but I would say, well,
maybe she's your good time bestie.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And I think that the six besties theory.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
People have written to me saying that it's like it's
saved some of their friendships. There are complications with it,
and I make a point to say, you don't need
every single one of these because I don't want people
to think, oh, well, I don't have a seasonal bestie,
so like that's I'm screwed. Well, do you feel screwed?
Maybe you do need more support. Maybe you're like, oh,
I have this. I love hiking, but none of my
(19:13):
friends love to hike, and it's made me feel really
distant from them. Maybe actually, it's not a problem with
these other friends. Maybe I just need to find someone
to hike with. Maybe I'm missing a seasonal bestie. But
if you don't feel like you're missing one, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wait. I want to ask Simone about this, because the
idea of certain friends for different reasons is I think
something that not everybody like can live in the gray zone.
Are you with that? Simone, or are you more black
and white with friends?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I actually think that it's First of all, let me
start by saying I really love this framework. It makes
relationships really easy to digest, and it also makes friendships
less disposable when you consider that friendships can serve a
certain purpose and that not everyone has to be your
north Star bestie. For me, at this stage of my life,
(20:03):
in the second half of my thirties, I find myself
needing certain types of friendships more than others. So I
thankfully have a lot of north star besties and I
feel like those are those are just like the deeper,
more meaningful, more fulfilling relationships, the quality relationships, and those
are the ones that I want to surround myselves with.
(20:25):
So yeah, I think for me right now, I have
a ton of dead body besties and north star besties,
and then it is really exhilarating to make seasonal besties
at this stage of life too, because I always want
to be growing and expanding and acquiring new skills and
hopefully making new friends in the process.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
How about you, Danielle, I love that you have a
lot of dead body besties. That's so good. I feel
like I have an array of friends as well. But
I am a person who likes deep roots, and so
I have a lot of like new acquaintances. I don't
have a lot of new friends until time passes. Like
(21:11):
once you are my friend, you are my friend for life.
I don't have a ton of seasonal to be honest,
but it takes me a little bit to get there.
I'm not all in right away, if that makes sense.
So I have a lot of I would say north
Star and dead Body too, Simon.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I'm with you and I relate to both of you like.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
It's funny because people will sometimes comment like, what do
your real friends think about this? If I'm making a
new friend, I see the north Star potential in Yes.
If I meet someone new and we don't vibe or
I think they don't like me, I'm not thinking. I'm
not like stressing about it at all because I feel
confident in my other relationships. I think this expacity framework
is particularly useful for people who aren't there yet.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, I think it's particularly useful in your twenties, when
you're navigating friendships from all different sources and all different origins.
It would be really interesting to do an intergenerational survey too,
and I'd love to hear from my mom what her
assessment of her friend group looks like.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Right now, Oh, that's such a great idea.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
All right, we're going to take a quick break, but
we'll be right back with Hello Hayes.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, this is asking for a friend and we have
some friendships that could use a little love from Hello Hayes.
So I know that you've brought some letters to share
with us, right Hayes.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Absolutely, let's do it, all right. Letter one, Hello Hayes.
I have a wedding conundrum that I think only your
six besties theory can solve. I'm so excited to be
a bridesmaid in my friend's wedding. Let's call her Olivia.
What I'm less excited about is navigating the feelings of
our other friend who is not a bridesmaid.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Let's call her Julia.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
The three of us met our freshman year of college,
and we graduated several years ago. Olivia and I have
been North Star besties from the beginning, where Julia has
remained a seasonal or maybe og bestie if we count
college as an origin story. Here's where I need a
little Hayes magic. When Julia texted me about feeling excluded
from the wedding party. I wasn't surprised. I completely understand
feeling hurt when friendship's evolved in this way. However, her
(23:19):
feeling confused about this after all this time is concerning
and unrealistic. Olivia and I have been as open as
possible about our friendship without being unkind. I don't think
this is a case of her not knowing, but rather
of not accepting. How do I gently explain to her
that friendships change and it's okay to have different types
of festies. Do I finally need to give her an
honest reality check? Or do I just support her through
(23:41):
her feelings? Yours amused bridesmaid woo?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Who is right?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
So weddings bring up all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
They really really do.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
And this is one of those letters that I find
to be really interesting because the inciting incident doesn't really
have to do with the person who writes the letter,
And in this case, it's like the letter writer is
not the bride and she's not the friend who's been
left out, So right off the bat, I'm interested in
why the writer is taking responsibility for this problem now
(24:17):
It could just be because she's you know, she's been
put in the middle by Julia, but it could also
be kind of indicative of a like fixer middle child situation,
and the fact that she's bemuse bridesmaid is like already
anticipating more comments at the wedding suggests to me that
like she might be a ruminator like me. So my
(24:41):
response and my advice to her is about like managing
our own very human desire to control other people's reactions
and wanting everything to be okay, because I'd say to her,
you are not responsible for Olivia's bridesmaid's decisions, nor are
you responsible for Julia's feelings about not being a bridesmaid.
What you are responsible for is being a considerate person
(25:04):
and considerate friend. So rather than thinking about how you're
gonna solve a problem that hasn't actually happened yet, maybe
direct your attention to how can I be a good
friend to Julia? Knowing that this gave her a reaction,
And I think that could be you know, continuing to
be normal whatever normal looks like in your relationship, but
try to alleviate Julia's in securities. In another way, I
(25:25):
also think like let's give Julia some space to process
this on her own. I don't know if Julia reacted
appropriately or like what the what the exact text was,
but let's not hold Julia's initial reaction against her. If
you're not chosen to be a bridesmaid, it's completely valid
to have a hurt reaction to that. It's like one
of the most common feelings out there. Of course, how
(25:46):
we act on those feelings is another thing entirely, But
give Julia some grace. Maybe Julia just needed to say
something privately to you, and then we can move on.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
No notes, no, no, no, Julia needs to talk to
her therapist, and yeah, it's not on the other one.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's not on her. It's not on her.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
And that's why I'm so curious, Like why does she
What does it say for the person who wrote in?
I would want her to think about, like, what does
it say about me that I'm writing into an advice
column about something that isn't I'm not even directly involved in.
That's an interesting line of thinking for her to explore.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Maybe she's also the wedding planner.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
We just know.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I don't know exactly exactly, And trios are hard trios
are hard Of all of the friendship numbers, do we
think trios are the most doomed.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I think they're not doomed if each person has self efficacy,
if they really know who they are and feel confident
in it, I think it's okay. I have a trio
from college that's really strong.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Do you each have individual relationships as well? Or is
it like, yeah, tell me more?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And there's seasons. Actually, one of mine is a Julia,
and we are each closer at different times of our lives,
depending on what we're going through, And I think each
one is accepting of when other people are closer. It's
just seasonal, but the bond and the loyalties always there.
(27:14):
I love that. All right, that was a really good one.
What do you have next for us? Hayes?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
All right, hello Hayes. Is it possible to apply the
six besties theory to a group as a whole. I've
been close with the group of girlfriends for seven years,
but over the past year I've noticed that whenever I
sent something in our group chat about my life, nobody
replies or seems interested. Yet, when other members of the
group send in their updates or ask for advice, everybody replies.
The whole thing has left me confused about where I stand.
(27:40):
I've started to think that I must be boring, or annoying,
or just a bad person. I feel heartbroken. For years,
I thought these girls would one day be my bridesmaids,
and now I'm not sure if they'd even reply if
I said I got engaged. Maybe I just need to
apply the six besties theory and accept that this group
is no longer what it once was. What would you do, Hayes,
how would you move.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Forward from this?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Okay, so you can absolutely apply the six besties theory
to a group as a whole. But any bestie in
the bestI theory is still a good friend. Every single
one of the besties provides value, and sometimes to see
their value, you have to examine your expectations through the
six besties theory.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
So can you apply the six besties theory to this group?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I think you should, And maybe some of those reflection
questions to help you think about whether you need to
remanage your expectations or if these people just aren't really
your friends. Like outside of the group text, what's happening?
This letter is super focused on the group text behavior.
Do you spend time with these people in real life?
What are those relationships? Like, Like, I'm curious, are you
fixating on a texting thing or a real life thing,
(28:47):
because it would be sad to write off a friendship
just because people weren't like vibing with your texts in
the exact way that you want. But like, once you've
done that self reflection exercise of am I expecting too
much of this person? If that person still sucks or
makes you feel bad about yourself, you're questioning your worth
as a person.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Something is rotten, is something has gone wrong?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Have you ever had something like this? Hayes like a.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Person not engaging with my texts.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I hear this a lot with people in terms of
not replying quick enough. People like I have family members
who talk about this and I don't necessarily agree with them,
but they say, oh, so and so doesn't reply to
my texts fast enough. I feel like it's disrespectful or
like they don't care.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
It's funny. So I get into this with my husband
a lot.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I am really bad at with my phone and texting people,
and it's gotten much worse since I have become a
person on the internet.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
I'm so glad you asked that, because I hadn't really
thought about this until you just said it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's a big, big topic.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
For me right now, being better at responding to people,
particularly like my in laws. I'm not very good at
responding to like my mother in law's texts, like you
got to respond now. For me, it isn't anything beyond
my phone is a source of anxiety. Sometimes I see
a text and if I if I'm doing something, I
can't divert my attention to this text, which I know
(30:07):
sounds might sound absolutely ridiculous. A text should take a second,
as Brian, my husband, would say to me, But I
also know that it hurts people's feelings, So you know
you hear the strain in my voice because I don't
know what the answer is. Part of me is like,
you got to just understand that it's not personal, but
people do take it personally.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I know that I'm laughing because I think people with
big feelings can't reply to text quickly because we think
about each word for like it all matters so much.
I have the same issue as you do. What's your
kind of reaction to this, to this letter? I want
to know what Simon thinks. I don't.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I don't really engage in the group chat. The group chat,
like the group text gives me anxiety, so I just
I don't say anything. And then I follow up in
a couple of weeks and I'm like, Hey, do.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I owe anyone money?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What are there? What are the deadlines? Where do I
have to be? Tell me where to show up?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's communicate. You know how you can extract yourself from
a group chat? Have you ever done that? Oh? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
You just like I'll do this like Irish exit the
group chat.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I don't believe in I don't. I know, I don't
believe in group text etiquette. But I also have also
of two kids, so like I'm just like I can't
stand my phone like blowing up all the time, Like
I can't always respond.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
It's so funny, Hayes, Before you leave us, I want
to know who you go to advice for different people
for different things.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
So I think I apply like a six besties type
of framework to who I go to for advice. I'll
say I definitely have a few friends that I go
to for advice now, especially as it relates to my work.
As I said, that's sort of the thing that I
feel most existential about. I've learned to go to friends
who really know my strengths and my weaknesses and how
(31:48):
I can be distracted by shiny objects and help me
remember what my true goals are and what my true
strengths are. If I'm feeling overwhelmed by all of the
opportunities and I don't just mean like flashy, sexy opportunities,
but I can become overwhelmed sometimes with all of the
paths I could take, and sometimes a path will seem
really exciting because it feels like what I should do.
(32:10):
So I try to go to friends in my life
now and loved ones who immediately will help me remember
I don't there's no shulds here. What is really authentic
to you, Hayes, and I have not been so good
at that for a long time, and in the last
several months, I've tried to be more intentional about that,
because I am impressionable just like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I love that you admit that. That's so wonderful. Thanks
for asking well, Hayes. Thank you so much for being
here with us.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Oh my gosh, this was such a treat. Thank you
for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Thank you so much. Hayes.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Hayes is an advice columnist, writer, and content creator. You
can find more of her friendship advice on her substack
at Hellohayes dot substack dot com, or on her Instagram
and TikTok at Hello Hayes. That's h a y e s.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
If you have any friendship questions for us, send them
over to Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com
and listen. You never know you could even be featured
in our next round of asking for a friend.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking wine ahead
of Memorial Day weekend. Somalia. Alison Morris Roslin is here
to tell us which wines are the best to order
at a restaurant and why you never need to spend
more than thirty dollars on a bottle.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I'm Danielle Robe. You can find me on the internets, Instagram,
and TikTok at Danielle Robe. That's ro Bay. I'm Simone Boys.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Simone Boye,
see you tomorrow. Y'all keep looking on the bright side.
Hosts And Creators
Simone Boyce
Danielle Robay
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