October 9, 2024 • 36 mins
World Mental Health Day is tomorrow. Today’s Wellness Wednesday segment features Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a clinical psychologist, host & founder of the mental health platform and podcast Therapy for Black Girls, and author of Sisterhood Heals: The Transformative Power of Healing in Community. We dive into everything you’ve ever wanted to know about therapy but were too afraid to ask: how and when to start therapy, how to navigate the relationship with a therapist, what therapy is for, and what kind of therapy might be right for you.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Sunshine, Hey Bessies. Today on the bright Side, we're
joined by psychologist, author, and host of the award winning
podcast Therapy for Black Girls, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford is
here and just in time from Mental Health Day. She's
going to answer all the questions we're too afraid to
ask about therapy. It's Wednesday, October ninth. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coligard.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Simone.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Tomorrow ten ten is World Mental Health Day, which, according
to the World Health Organization, is a day dedicated to
raising awareness and mobilizing efforts in support of mental health.
So today we are dedicating Wellness Wednesday to mental health
and specifically we're focusing on therapy.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Danielle, I feel like the word therapy means so many
different things to so many different people. So today we
wanted to set aside some time to ask all the
questions you may have been afraid to ask and get
answers from a therapist perspective. Questions like is my therapist
judging me when I drop all my baggage at their door.
What kind of therapy is right for me? And how
(01:17):
do you know when it's time for you and your
therapist to part ways? Mm?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Is my therapist judging me?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's what I've always wondered.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I mean, you know, I talk about therapy a lot,
and not in the way that I'm trying to like
drop a quote from a therapist, but it's been such
a helpful tool for me. I remember when I was younger,
I felt frustrated all the time, and in my communication
I would get an email and I would see I
didn't know how to reply, or if I was in
(01:47):
conflict with a friend or a loved one, I didn't
know how to approach it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And now it's not like those.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Things are any easier necessarily, but I feel like I'm
so much less frustrated because I have communication tools. How
do you feel because I know you've dipped in and out?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, this one. I've tried several different types of therapy,
and I think that's an important part of the conversation.
We talk a lot about one on one talk therapy,
but there are so many different forms that can be
helpful and that can serve you. And earlier this year,
I tried group therapy and I was such a skeptic
at the beginning, but completely blown away by the results
at the end. And one thing the therapist told us
(02:25):
before we walked into this experience was that you're going
to be shocked by how much of your healing comes
from watching other people here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's really cool.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I've tried CBT, which was my first introduction to therapy,
and it was helpful. I don't know if it was
the best for me. What I've landed on is gestalt therapy,
and gestalt is like the practice. It's a regular talk therapy,
but it's the practice of being in relationship to something
(02:54):
all the time. You could even be in relationship to
a tree or a chair. But that that has helped.
I think I'm like relationally focused, so it makes sense.
But there's still so many versions I want to try,
and there's no one size.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Fits all approach. It's all super personal.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I have a lot of family members who refuse to
go to therapy.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh no, And.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
If you're listening, I'm not saying you all need it,
but you need it maybe but maybe no, But what
I've learned is that it is really personal. I think
one of the hesitations I've heard from family members is
it feels like it's opening Pandora's box. It can be
very painful. I have to be honest. The first two
years of therapy, I was sitting on my couch crying
(03:41):
a whole lot. I still cry in therapy, but not
like I used to. It is a little bit about
opening Pandora's box. Not everybody wants to do that. Yeah,
it's super confronting.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, hey, maybe this is a great episode to send
to your family members who might be verra curious.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, I'm actually really sad.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was way for this conversation and I can't wait
to hear everything you chatted about with today's guest.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yes, it's perfect timing in honor of World Mental Health Day.
I truly just fell in love with doctor joy Hard
and Bradford and the work that she does. I can
see why so many people love her because she just
has this like calming energy about her that makes you
want to trust her instantly. She's a licensed psychologist, the
author of Sisterhood Heels, and the founder and host of
Therapy for Black Girls. I'm so excited for you and
(04:29):
our Brightside bessies to hear this interview. Here's my conversation
with doctor Joy, Hard and Bradford. Welcome to the bright Side,
doctor Joy, Bradford, very happy to be here with you, Samo.
So tomorrow is World Mental Health Day, and I think
a lot of our bright Side besties who are listening
have questions about therapy, where to start, and what the
(04:50):
benefits are. So I'm thrilled that we get to talk
to you today because you are such an essential voice
in this space, as evidenced by the fact that in
twenty twenty one you want a web Be Award for
your podcast Therapy for Black Girls. And in your acceptance speech,
you said, I am because we are. Tell us what
those five words mean to you, Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Think it really means that community is the backbone of
everything that we do, and I feel like that has
kind of been a model for my life. I really
want to be of service to people through mental health
awareness and breaking the stigma related to mental health. And
so those five words felt like a great acceptance speech
for a speech that only requires five words.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I found this quote on your website too. It
said a lot of times when we talk about mental
illness or mental health. I think there's a lot missing
from the conversation. What did you think was missing from
the conversation when you became a therapist, and what did
you think that you could contribute to it.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I think that I've always felt that there was a
lot missing as it relates to communities of color. So
we know that a lot of the interventions, a lot
of the theories that we use as therapists are all
kind of created for and by straight white men in
and so there's of course a lot that is missing
from the conversation where you're talking about using those same
techniques on people who are not straight white men. And
(06:08):
so I think that there's a lot of conversation and
information missing as it relates to what therapy looks like
in communities of color, how symptoms may even look different
in our communities. And so I really have aimed to
have therapy for black girls, and the work that I've
done as a part of my career be an effort
to kind of create some of that work, right, to
be able to kind of give voice and look at
(06:29):
different ways that healing happens in communities of color.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, you have to forgive me joy because I'm on
my period right now, so my emotions are all over
the place. So I'm probably going to get emotional during
this interview. But I got emotional as I was preparing
for this interview with you because I was raised by
a black mom who I don't think ever had the
option of doing therapy when she was a little girl,
(06:55):
and she went through some stuff, and her sisters went
through some stuff, and her parents went or some stuff,
but it was always swept under the rug. And as
I was preparing for this conversation, I was really struck
by this idea of the generational impact of therapy and
this specific question, how would my life look different if
(07:16):
my mom had gotten therapy as a young woman. Can
you speak to the collective healing aspect of this?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yeah, that feels so important. I appreciate you sharing that
with us today and even thinking about my own family, right, like,
when I think about, like, oh, what kinds of conversations
did we have about mental health? There weren't any directly,
but I definitely remember, like my mother and my aunties
talking about their nerves being bad.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right, So now I know that what they were.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Describing was anxiety, but at the time they didn't have
language for that, right, And it sounds like the same
thing with your mom and your family, right, Like so
many things that have happened in our lives and in
our family's lives have been traumatic, but we didn't use
the word trauma, right, Like, I think for a lot
of us, it was just what life was. And so
it is only now in looking back that we were able
(08:03):
to say, like, oh, that was really a big deal,
and more care should have been taken, more support should
have been offered after that thing happened. And so I
think the fact that we are having these kinds of
conversations today, the fact that we are talking to our
girlfriends and our children and our sisters now about these things,
means that our mothers and grandmothers also are feeling some
(08:23):
of that, right, Like they are also able to reimagine, like, oh,
that thing that happened to me was traumatic, and like
I can give myself grace and I can take care
of myself when difficult things happen. And so I think
that that is really where some of that generational healing happens,
in that we are now having these conversations, we're going
to therapy. We're doing the kinds of things that our
(08:43):
mothers and grandmothers didn't even have language for.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know, the statistics back up everything you're saying about
the disparities and the stigma surrounding mental health issues, particularly
in communities of color. I mean, statistics show that most
therapists are white women, twenty five percent of therapists identify
as minorities. And you've been so outspoken about the importance
of having a therapist who can provide culturally informed services
(09:10):
for patients. Why is that piece of this so important.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I think there's a lot of research that talks about
even like depression, how depression symptoms look different in communities
of colors, especially Black women, right, So, I think in
a lot of Black women, depression often presents as a
more physical kind of symptoms and more stomach aches, more headaches,
And when you think about it, it kind of makes
sense because we have not had the luxury of being
(09:35):
able to sit in a corner and cry like that
is not typically our lived experience, and so of course
symptoms may look very different. But if you don't have
a provider who knows to look for a different range
of symptoms, then things can be missed, and so it's
really important that we are at the table in terms
of being providers, so that we are kind of being
attuned to the ways that our culture shapes how we
(09:58):
talk about mental health. The relationships we have to faith
and spirituality. I think have been demonized when people of
color are not actually the providers because they don't have
the understanding and the context to the role that faith
and religion has in our lives. And so I think
that we just add much more to the table and
much more to the conversation that make sure that people
(10:20):
are then getting the care that they actually deserve.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You are named a game changer by Glamour. You are
truly one of the pioneers who is actively reducing the
stigma surrounding mental health and therapy. When you survey the landscape,
where do you think we are with that stigma right now?
I think we've come a very far away.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Like, I think we've done a lot of incredible work,
but I think that there are still more work to
be done, right, Like, I don't know that we're ever
really finished. Just by the fact that we are having
this conversation, so many young people are sharing their experiences
with therapy online. Every time somebody who's a public figure
or somebody who has a large platform talk about like
their own struggles with mental health or mental illness, it
(11:03):
makes it more okay for other people to say, like, oh,
I didn't know that this was a thing that you
could talk with the therapist about, or oh, I don't
feel so alone because other people feel this way as well.
And so I think the more that we talk about it,
the more that we share our experiences, we're continuing to
really chip away at that stigma.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, you brought up young people being really engaged in
this conversation, and I think there's a really interesting dynamic there.
It feels like, and I would need to look at
the research on this, but it feels like we are
the first generation that is prioritizing therapy in such a
powerful way. Why do you think that is? Like, why
(11:42):
do you think things are changing with us and with
the youth? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
So, I think some of it is related to school
counselors in school. So I don't know about you, but
when I was in school, like the school counselor really
was only in charge of like scheduling, like they didn't
actually talk to you about any kind of mental health concerns.
School counselors now actually are there to tend to the
socio emotional needs of students, like dealing with big feelings
(12:08):
and how to meditate and all of these kinds of
things that are really helpful in giving kids language to
describe their interior experiences. I also think that, you know,
because so many of us are aware of the kinds
of things that there could be helpful for, we're also
talking to our kids about it or getting kids support
when they needed, you know. I definitely think a byproduct
(12:28):
of the pandemic was that so many people were struggling,
right and we know that kids especially were really hit
hard by being pulled away from their social connections and
you know, all the things that they were used to,
and so a lot of kids needed some additional support.
And so I think because people are recognizing that kids
have feelings that they need to tend to as well,
it is easier for young people to continue to talk
(12:50):
more about this much more openly.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's time for a short break, but we'll be right
back to wellness Wednesday with doctor joy Hard and Bradford.
And we're back with doctor joy Hard and Bradford. For
people who have never done therapy before, can you talk
(13:14):
a bit about the value of a therapist, like, what
does a therapist uniquely bring to your interior experience as
opposed to just talking to a friend offloading to a spouse.
What are the benefits here? I think it does.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Largely feel like a very foreign experience. Even though so
many of us are talking, you still don't really know
what's happening behind the closed doors. Are in the private zoom, right,
And I think the difference of talking to a therapist
versus like a friend or somebody else in your life
is that it is much more about you. So when
you're talking to a friend, like you might vent and
(13:49):
talk about what's going on with you, and there's also
the expectation that your friend is going to talk about
what's going on with them, yes, whereas with a therapist,
they're there really to just hold space for you and
your concerns, which I think is also a little weird
because it's like, I'm sharing all this information about you,
but I know nothing about what's happening with a therapist
one hundred percent. That's how it's designed, that's how it's
designed to be, right, and I think it is a
(14:11):
great experience because so many of us don't actually slow
down or have those spaces where like people are actually
centering our needs, and so therapy, I think is really
great to be able to just give you space to
talk through whatever is going on with you.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's actually a place to be selfish, yes, which is
kind of nice. And as you get older, it's rare
to find those opportunities as you add more responsibilities into
your life. Exactly. You know you brought up the awkwardness
of like sharing all of your dirty laundry with a therapist, right,
I have so been there. I think anybody who has
(14:47):
done therapy has felt that feeling of like that first
meeting with a therapist. It's so scary it takes a
lot of bravery. I got invited to this group therapy
retreat earlier this year, and at the beginning of it,
they asked all of us to pick a spot in
the room based on how scared we were to start
this experience. None of us knew each other. A couple
(15:09):
of people knew each other, but it was mostly strangers,
and so it was only me and my friend Mariah,
who are all the way on the terrified side of
the scale, isolated from everyone else, and we were like,
I don't want to talk to y'all. I'm not sharing
my secrets. I don't know any of y'all. Y'all gonna
go around town spread my business. But once I started
to feel the trust and trust the process and open
(15:31):
up my heart, the healing from that point on was magical.
And I think the healing in therapy, if you surrender
to it, is truly magical.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, So, first of all, I love that you talked
about like a group therapy experience, because group therapy is
actually my favorite way to practice therapy because I think
what you just said right, like, there's probably something that
happened in that weekend or week however long y'all been
together that it might take six months to a year
for you to get to with an individual therapy, And
so group therapy really just kind of pours gasoline on
(16:03):
healing in a lot of ways because there are just
so many more people to kind of project off of,
and all of this stuff is like in the room
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So I love that you talked about it. On that note,
they were like, watch, sixty percent of your healing is
going to come from watching someone else's healing, and it
was so true everything you said. I stand ten toes
down on it because it was like six months of
therapy packed into five days. I'm always afraid, though, that
therapists are going to judge me and think my baggage
(16:31):
is worse than everyone else's. So will you share what
that first meeting is like? From a therapist perspective.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
The concern around your therapist judging you is a very
common one. So I just want to first normalize this
idea that it is very weird and awkward to be
talking to a stranger about some very personal stuff. But
I also want you to trust that your therapist has
been trained to be able to hear all these things
that you feel like and because it's your personal experience,
you feel like nobody else in the world has ever
(17:02):
felt this way or has had any of these experiences.
But as a therapist, we've also had the experience of
hearing multiple people share things that are probably very similar
to what you're sharing, and so even if the content
is not the same as like another client, we've heard
a lot of things, and so you can trust that
you are not shocking your therapists that we've done enough
(17:23):
training to be able to hold whatever it is that
you come into the room with. But I also want
to give you permission that if you feel judged by
your therapist, to tell them that, because I think that
that is also a great way to just practice advocating
for yourself. Therapy, I think is cool in so many
different ways. But one of my favorite things about therapy
is that it allows you to have some difficult conversations
(17:45):
that you might not have in other places in your life.
So being able to tell the therapist, who is in
a bit of an authority role, hey, I'm kind of
feeling judged by this thing that I shared with you,
and then you be able to talk to your therapist
about that and them share whether they are are judging
you or not. Really is a great conversation that provides
a model for you to have those same kinds of
(18:05):
conversations and other places in your life.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
That piece that you mentioned about feeling like no one
has ever experienced problems like mine, and no one's going
through my struggles, nobody understands, and then only to find
out that as a therapist you see some of the
same recurring themes come up over and over again. Wow,
what a powerful reminder and something to keep in mind
(18:30):
as we're spiraling. You know, what are some of those
recurring themes that keep coming up?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
So I think anxiety has been for years the number
one the most diagnosed mental health condition, and especially kind
of coming out of the pandemic. I think the pandemic
also provided this opportunity for people to really reimagine and
re examine their values. I think lots of people are
trying to come to groups with I thought that this
thing was really important in my life, but now it
isn't so much, and so what does that mean for
(18:58):
the rest of my life? So lots of transitions like
purpose in life kinds of things, and lots of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
For patients who are looking for a therapist who is
a person of color, will you tell us more about
the Therapy for Black Girls database, Lo, this is huge?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah, yeah, So we have over six thousand therapists across
the country and in Canada who really love doing great
work with black women and girls. So they don't necessarily
see black women and girls exclusively, but they really want
to make sure that they are able to be found.
And so I'm just so excited that, like so many
people have become members of our directory and really want
to be found by clients. And I think when you
(19:36):
are looking for a therapist, it is a bit like dating, right,
Like you are trying to see who's going to be
the best fit for you. And I encourage people even
though I know it's so hard, because, especially if you've
been wanting to do therapy for a long time, you
finally have the bravery to make that call, and then
you maybe go to a couple of sessions and you're like, oh,
I don't know that this person is actually a great
(19:58):
fit for me. That it's totally okay because the first
therapist is not necessarily going to be the best fit
for you, And so I think it is okay to
kind of continue to try different therapists until you find
somebody who's actually going to.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Be a great fit for you. How do you know
when it's the right fit?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, you know, I often use this example, you know,
you sometimes like we go to a dentist who doesn't
have the greatest bedside manner, but they're like an excellent dentist,
and so we go because it's like, oh, I only
see them once or twice a year. Right with your therapist,
It's likely not going to be that you're gonna want
to find somebody who has a great bedside manner or
somebody who you really feel like you click with, because
(20:37):
you're likely going to be meeting with them on a
weekly or maybe every other week. Basis, the number one
key to success in the therapeutic relationship is the relationship
that you have with your therapist. So no matter how
we practice, no matter what our degree is in, if
the relationship with the therapist is strong, you're more likely
to see success in therapy. I do think it's also
(20:57):
really important to make sure that the therapist has training
in the thing that you are coming to them for. Right,
So you might find a therapist's website and follow them
on social and you're like, oh, I really love their personality,
But if they're not trained in the thing that you
are needing assistance with, it's probably not going to be
helpful for you.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So let's say that you've been going to therapy for
a minute, you have a good relationship with your therapist,
it can still sometimes be hard to bring up the
issues that you want to talk about. What would you
say to someone who has something that they know that
they need to unpack with their practitioner, but it feels
difficult or shameful to bring it up in their session.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, So first, I think it is important to be
okay that it is slow to warm up to some people, right,
Like that is a part of what it means to
develop healthy relationships with other people is that you kind
of feel them out, like, okay, can I trust this person?
And so that's totally okay that you don't then necessarily
feel comfortable sharing everything in your first session. But if
you are feeling anxious or you're a little worried and
(21:57):
you know there's something you want to share that you
just can't quite bring yourself to share, I would say
to share that, to share that there is something I
want to tell you and it's feeling very difficult for
me to bring it up, And then you will likely
have an incredible conversation with your therapist about what's making
it difficult. In what other places in your life do
you have difficulty disclosing you know, things like this, who
(22:19):
has made you feel bad about this thing in the past, Like,
there's incredible, excellent work that can be done without you
ever even bringing up the thing, and then I think
that those conversations then make it easier. They're almost a
gateway to you feeling okay, this person gets me. I
think I can trust them, and then it is much
easier to share whatever the thing is.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I love that advice exactly when it comes to the
idea of like ending a relationship with the therapist. I
thought you had some really interesting thoughts on this on
your Therapy for Black Girls podcast. This you talked about
this online phenomenon of people saying that they were fired
by their therapist. Can you unpack that a little describe
(22:59):
a center car on which a therapist would tell a
client that they won't be continuing the therapeutic relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
And I think for a lot of clients that feels
very hard to hear sometimes because of what we talked
about earlier, like this idea that I'm too much and
so even this therapist now feels like I'm too much
for them to work with.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But there are some very good.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Cases why a therapist might feel like I'm not doing
the best service to you because maybe you are presenting
with a concern that I don't actually have expertise with,
right So maybe you came in talking about anxiety, and
you know, I felt like I had a good grasp
on that, but then as we continue to talk, maybe
there's something else going on that I don't have the
appropriate training, and it would be more damaging for me
(23:43):
to kind of continue working with you as opposed to
referring you to somebody who does have training in whatever
the thing is. So I think when people are talking
about being fired, usually what has happened is that the
therapist feels like, Okay, I've maxed out on my skills
here and I don't know that I'm actually going to
be the best person to help you anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well, I think it's important to remember that there are
so many different types of therapy too. Like I had
a really successful experience with EMDR therapy, which involves this track,
this movement between your eyes and honestly it's kind of
magical and mystical. I don't know how to explain it,
but it helps you repackage and reprocess your trauma. There's
(24:25):
you know, attachment based therapy, there's cognitive behavioral therapy. How
do people figure out what is the best kind of
therapy for them? Like, where do you start in terms
of being your own best advocate.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, and I think when people see all of that,
it can be really overwhelming, especially if you're new to therapy. Now,
I think for people who are kind of therapy savvy,
maybe they work with therapists before they kind of know like, Okay,
I already tried cognitive behavioral and now I want to
try EMDR are something different. But I think as a
new person kind of coming into therapy, which you really
want to look at is do they have success helping
(24:59):
people through whatever it is that you want them to
help you through, because there are lots of different ways
to get to healing, as we already talked about, right like, yeah,
you know, the way I practice therapy may look very
different from the way that somebody practices emd R, but
that doesn't mean that you can't still get good results
regardless of.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
How we practice. We have to take another quick break,
but we'll be right back with doctor joy Hard and
Bradford and we're back. As much as we have normalized
this conversation around therapy and mental health, and you've been
a huge part of that, there are still some barriers
(25:38):
in the way. For a lot of people. Therapy can
be expensive. I know that in the past, when I
haven't been able to afford it, it's been easy to
be like, well, I guess I can't do therapy right now,
or I guess I can't even heal right now. What
are some practices that we can try by ourselves that
might be helpful in our healing process if therapy isn't
(25:58):
on the table right now.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
So I want to first just offer people some resources
because to your point, like you are correct that therapy
can be very expensive, But there are lots of organizations
that offer either vouchers for therapy or like half therapists
who offers some of their sessions at a much discounted rate.
So the Loveland Foundation is a great organization that provides vouchers,
(26:20):
especially for women of color who are interested in therapy.
The Open Path Collective is another organization that has therapists
who offer their services at a sliding scale. I also
encourage people to make sure that you're looking at your benefits.
So if you are employed at a place that has
like an EAP program, sometimes you can get like six
to eight, maybe even twelve sessions completely covered without even
(26:42):
having to use your insurance because your workplace participates in
an EAP program, So definitely make sure you check out
those options if you do actually want to go to therapy.
But cost is an issue. But to your question around
like what kinds of things can we do otherwise to
take care of our mental health. So the number one
one thing that I think that people overlook in terms
(27:02):
of taking care of their mental health is sleep. So
I think many of us are really not getting enough sleep,
or if we are getting sleep, it's not restorative, and
so paying attention to getting six to eight hours of
quality sleep every night can do.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Wonders for your mental health.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
So having a good sleep hygiene routine, trying to go
to bed at the same time every night, waking up
at the same time in the morning, even on the weekends,
even though I know that's hard, but really getting your
body into that routine I think can really really be good.
Physical activity is also really good for our mental health.
So there's all this research that talks about the endorphins
and the serotonin that we really experience and like get
(27:40):
a boost from when we are just even doing light
physical activity. So just going for a walk or you know,
kind of brisk walk in your neighborhood or my favorite,
which is hula hooping in the middle of my kitchen, Like,
any kind of physical activity is really good for your
mental health. And then making sure that we are intentional
about our social connection. So isolation and loneliness it's a
really big hindrance to our mental health, and so making
(28:03):
sure that we're staying connected to people, that we're letting
people know how we're doing, is a great way to
protect your mental health. Well to your point, sisterhood, friendship,
community can be completely life changing, and you wrote a
book all about that, Sisterhood Heals, a love letter to
Black women and the transformative nature of sisterhood. What did
(28:26):
you discover as you were writing that book. I discovered
just how important black women have been to my life
and how important we typically are into each other's lives, right,
like in the book is really a celebration of who
we are to one another, but also an invitation to
how we can do that even better. I think, if
anything else that we have learned through the pandemic is
that the only way to get through difficult times is together.
(28:50):
And so the book is really a guide to how
we can do a better job of showing up for
one another.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Someone the other day was asking me about this quote
that I said, joy is a suit power, And the
only way that I could think to explain it was
really in the context of black women and the black
women who raised me, and you know, seeing my auntie
who's still out a smile on her face even though
(29:15):
she was dealing with cancer, or my mom hosting these
magical gatherings and these like powerful times of connection even
though she was supporting my dad through his really difficult
health struggles. What does that phrase joy as a superpower
mean to you?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing those examples, and I think
joy is the thing that allows us to get through
the more difficult times right now when the world feels
so difficult, so many tragedies, so much stress, and we
can feel guilty about even trying to connect with joy
because it feels like that doesn't feel like a good
thing to do when so many bad things are happening.
But joy is really what allows you to continue to
(29:54):
show up for those times. It's what is restorative, it's
what refused us, and it's really important for us stay
connected to joyful things even despite difficult things happening in
the background. And so I think that that is another
mental health practice that we can, you know, incorporate into
our lives is to stay connected to joy and be
intentional about creating joyful experiences, even if it is just
(30:15):
going for a walk on the weekend or having a
nice couple of hot chalk with like, whatever those little
things are for you, making sure that you're adding that
to your schedule.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I want to end our conversation, doctor Joy by talking
about the results of therapy, because it's often hard to
predict how therapy is going to change us. I mean,
sometimes people make big life changes, they blow up their
lives after having these realizations and discoveries and therapy. And
then another side effect or byproduct of therapy that we
(30:46):
don't often talk about is that healing itself can be isolating.
Sometimes those realizations and revelations that you have in therapy
are going to cause you to take action and perhaps
isolate yourself from people in your life for are toxic
and who are not a part of your healing. Can
you talk a little bit about what we can expect
(31:06):
from therapy, how it's going to change us. Yeah, I
mean I feel like you said a mouthful.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
There's a moone because you're right, Like, sometimes we learn
things about ourselves about how our relationships to other people
actually are not in the best interests of our mental health,
and so we decide to maybe put some distance there.
But it also opens up your capacity to connect with
other people who may be a better fit for you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
It also allows you to develop a different kind of
support system that actually helps you to thrive as opposed
to limits your possibility. So I think that it can
mean that you are leaving some things behind, but it
also means that you are opening the door for lots
of incredible things.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
But it can be painful, Like I.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Don't want to kind of override this idea that it
can be really difficult to kind of tear down all
these pieces that maybe are familiar, which is why many
of us stay there because they're familiar, even if they
are not the healthiest for us. And it can be
differ to create space for something that is new, even
if it is healthier. And so part of what therapy
will be is allowing you to build the resources and
(32:08):
build the support to support this life that is on
the other side of therapy. And so typically when you're
working with your therapist, they are not going to take
something away from you without giving you something to replace it.
And so that's what therapy really is. It's about you
having a better idea of the patterns that you find
yourself in, as it relates to behaviors, as it relates
to relationships, and then realizing and choosing to do something different.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
How do we break those patterns? That's a million dollar question, right,
it really is.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
And I think the first part is recognizing the patterns, right,
like when you realize, like, oh, I keep dating the
same person even though they look very different, they come
from very different places. Like they're typically patterns that we
fall into in our lives, and sometimes we can't see
them because we're too close to it. And so I
think the first step is recognizing when you've gotten yourself
into a pattern and then also understanding like how that
(32:59):
pattern develops. And so for a lot of us, I
think it's some childhood stuff, right, Like it is something
that we're trying to work through from our childhood, but
we're working it out in real time with other people
in our lives, and so therapy really helps you to
recognize the pattern, understand why it's happening, and then put
some other things in place so that you don't keep
repeating that pattern.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Can I ask you a personal question, where are you
in your healing journey? Because whenever I see or meet
a therapist, I'm like, oh, they're healed. They got to
figure out they graduated, they graduated.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Or absolutely not, absolutely not someone. So I think, you know,
most therapists who are self aware also have their own therapists.
So on Tuesdays at two o'clock, I am talking in
the virtual zoom room with my own therapist because I
think you realize, like every new phase of my life,
I have realized I've needed an additional level of support.
(33:53):
You know. I think in grad school, like I had
like lots of imposter syndrome, and so I was talking
to my therapist about that, and recently entrepreneurship and like
writing the book, and like all of that has unlocked
all of these other like insecurities and like worries that
I didn't have language for before because they weren't things
that I was doing. And I'm the mother of two
(34:14):
small boys eight and ten year olds, and so being
a mother and like all the challenges they have as
they grow throughout their life also unlocks of these other
things for me, and so I find that as I
grow in life, as I you know, transition in into
different roles, I need different levels of support. So I'm
not at all one hundred percent healed, nor is any
of us.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Doctor Joy, thank you so much for sharing the bright
side of therapy with us today. On the bright side,
You're welcome. This has been a pleasure. Doctor Joy Harden
Bradford is a licensed psychologist, speaker, and the host of
the podcast Therapy for Black Girls, as well as the
author of Sisterhood Heals, The Transformative Power of Healing in Community.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That's it for today's show.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Tomorrow, we're keeping the mental health conversation going with Anna
Marie Tenler. She's the author of the New York Times
bestseller men have called her crazy. Thank you to our
partners at Coligard, the one of a kind way to
screen for colon cancer in the privacy and comfort of
your own home. Talk to your doctor or healthcare provider,
or go to coliguard dot com slash podcast to see
(35:24):
if you are eligible to order online. If you're forty
five or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
About screening for colon cancer. With Coli Guard.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You can also request a col of Guard prescription today
at coliguard dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Slash podcast, join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side
and connect with us on social media at Hello Sunshine
on Instagram and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh,
and feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and
at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Sunshine, Hey Bessies. Today on the bright Side, we're
joined by psychologist, author, and host of the award winning
podcast Therapy for Black Girls, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford is
here and just in time from Mental Health Day. She's
going to answer all the questions we're too afraid to
ask about therapy. It's Wednesday, October ninth. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to
share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coligard.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Simone.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Tomorrow ten ten is World Mental Health Day, which, according
to the World Health Organization, is a day dedicated to
raising awareness and mobilizing efforts in support of mental health.
So today we are dedicating Wellness Wednesday to mental health
and specifically we're focusing on therapy.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Danielle, I feel like the word therapy means so many
different things to so many different people. So today we
wanted to set aside some time to ask all the
questions you may have been afraid to ask and get
answers from a therapist perspective. Questions like is my therapist
judging me when I drop all my baggage at their door.
What kind of therapy is right for me? And how
(01:17):
do you know when it's time for you and your
therapist to part ways? Mm?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Is my therapist judging me?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's what I've always wondered.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I mean, you know, I talk about therapy a lot,
and not in the way that I'm trying to like
drop a quote from a therapist, but it's been such
a helpful tool for me. I remember when I was younger,
I felt frustrated all the time, and in my communication
I would get an email and I would see I
didn't know how to reply, or if I was in
(01:47):
conflict with a friend or a loved one, I didn't
know how to approach it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
And now it's not like those.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Things are any easier necessarily, but I feel like I'm
so much less frustrated because I have communication tools. How
do you feel because I know you've dipped in and out?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, this one. I've tried several different types of therapy,
and I think that's an important part of the conversation.
We talk a lot about one on one talk therapy,
but there are so many different forms that can be
helpful and that can serve you. And earlier this year,
I tried group therapy and I was such a skeptic
at the beginning, but completely blown away by the results
at the end. And one thing the therapist told us
(02:25):
before we walked into this experience was that you're going
to be shocked by how much of your healing comes
from watching other people here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's really cool.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I've tried CBT, which was my first introduction to therapy,
and it was helpful. I don't know if it was
the best for me. What I've landed on is gestalt therapy,
and gestalt is like the practice. It's a regular talk therapy,
but it's the practice of being in relationship to something
(02:54):
all the time. You could even be in relationship to
a tree or a chair. But that that has helped.
I think I'm like relationally focused, so it makes sense.
But there's still so many versions I want to try,
and there's no one size.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Fits all approach. It's all super personal.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I have a lot of family members who refuse to
go to therapy.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Oh no, And.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
If you're listening, I'm not saying you all need it,
but you need it maybe but maybe no, But what
I've learned is that it is really personal. I think
one of the hesitations I've heard from family members is
it feels like it's opening Pandora's box. It can be
very painful. I have to be honest. The first two
years of therapy, I was sitting on my couch crying
(03:41):
a whole lot. I still cry in therapy, but not
like I used to. It is a little bit about
opening Pandora's box. Not everybody wants to do that. Yeah,
it's super confronting.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, hey, maybe this is a great episode to send
to your family members who might be verra curious.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, I'm actually really sad.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was way for this conversation and I can't wait
to hear everything you chatted about with today's guest.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yes, it's perfect timing in honor of World Mental Health Day.
I truly just fell in love with doctor joy Hard
and Bradford and the work that she does. I can
see why so many people love her because she just
has this like calming energy about her that makes you
want to trust her instantly. She's a licensed psychologist, the
author of Sisterhood Heels, and the founder and host of
Therapy for Black Girls. I'm so excited for you and
(04:29):
our Brightside bessies to hear this interview. Here's my conversation
with doctor Joy, Hard and Bradford. Welcome to the bright Side,
doctor Joy, Bradford, very happy to be here with you, Samo.
So tomorrow is World Mental Health Day, and I think
a lot of our bright Side besties who are listening
have questions about therapy, where to start, and what the
(04:50):
benefits are. So I'm thrilled that we get to talk
to you today because you are such an essential voice
in this space, as evidenced by the fact that in
twenty twenty one you want a web Be Award for
your podcast Therapy for Black Girls. And in your acceptance speech,
you said, I am because we are. Tell us what
those five words mean to you, Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Think it really means that community is the backbone of
everything that we do, and I feel like that has
kind of been a model for my life. I really
want to be of service to people through mental health
awareness and breaking the stigma related to mental health. And
so those five words felt like a great acceptance speech
for a speech that only requires five words.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I found this quote on your website too. It
said a lot of times when we talk about mental
illness or mental health. I think there's a lot missing
from the conversation. What did you think was missing from
the conversation when you became a therapist, and what did
you think that you could contribute to it.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
I think that I've always felt that there was a
lot missing as it relates to communities of color. So
we know that a lot of the interventions, a lot
of the theories that we use as therapists are all
kind of created for and by straight white men in
and so there's of course a lot that is missing
from the conversation where you're talking about using those same
techniques on people who are not straight white men. And
(06:08):
so I think that there's a lot of conversation and
information missing as it relates to what therapy looks like
in communities of color, how symptoms may even look different
in our communities. And so I really have aimed to
have therapy for black girls, and the work that I've
done as a part of my career be an effort
to kind of create some of that work, right, to
be able to kind of give voice and look at
(06:29):
different ways that healing happens in communities of color.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, you have to forgive me joy because I'm on
my period right now, so my emotions are all over
the place. So I'm probably going to get emotional during
this interview. But I got emotional as I was preparing
for this interview with you because I was raised by
a black mom who I don't think ever had the
option of doing therapy when she was a little girl,
(06:55):
and she went through some stuff, and her sisters went
through some stuff, and her parents went or some stuff,
but it was always swept under the rug. And as
I was preparing for this conversation, I was really struck
by this idea of the generational impact of therapy and
this specific question, how would my life look different if
(07:16):
my mom had gotten therapy as a young woman. Can
you speak to the collective healing aspect of this?
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Yeah, that feels so important. I appreciate you sharing that
with us today and even thinking about my own family, right, like,
when I think about, like, oh, what kinds of conversations
did we have about mental health? There weren't any directly,
but I definitely remember, like my mother and my aunties
talking about their nerves being bad.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right, So now I know that what they were.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Describing was anxiety, but at the time they didn't have
language for that, right, And it sounds like the same
thing with your mom and your family, right, Like so
many things that have happened in our lives and in
our family's lives have been traumatic, but we didn't use
the word trauma, right, Like, I think for a lot
of us, it was just what life was. And so
it is only now in looking back that we were able
(08:03):
to say, like, oh, that was really a big deal,
and more care should have been taken, more support should
have been offered after that thing happened. And so I
think the fact that we are having these kinds of
conversations today, the fact that we are talking to our
girlfriends and our children and our sisters now about these things,
means that our mothers and grandmothers also are feeling some
(08:23):
of that, right, Like they are also able to reimagine, like, oh,
that thing that happened to me was traumatic, and like
I can give myself grace and I can take care
of myself when difficult things happen. And so I think
that that is really where some of that generational healing happens,
in that we are now having these conversations, we're going
to therapy. We're doing the kinds of things that our
(08:43):
mothers and grandmothers didn't even have language for.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know, the statistics back up everything you're saying about
the disparities and the stigma surrounding mental health issues, particularly
in communities of color. I mean, statistics show that most
therapists are white women, twenty five percent of therapists identify
as minorities. And you've been so outspoken about the importance
of having a therapist who can provide culturally informed services
(09:10):
for patients. Why is that piece of this so important.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I think there's a lot of research that talks about
even like depression, how depression symptoms look different in communities
of colors, especially Black women, right, So, I think in
a lot of Black women, depression often presents as a
more physical kind of symptoms and more stomach aches, more headaches,
And when you think about it, it kind of makes
sense because we have not had the luxury of being
(09:35):
able to sit in a corner and cry like that
is not typically our lived experience, and so of course
symptoms may look very different. But if you don't have
a provider who knows to look for a different range
of symptoms, then things can be missed, and so it's
really important that we are at the table in terms
of being providers, so that we are kind of being
attuned to the ways that our culture shapes how we
(09:58):
talk about mental health. The relationships we have to faith
and spirituality. I think have been demonized when people of
color are not actually the providers because they don't have
the understanding and the context to the role that faith
and religion has in our lives. And so I think
that we just add much more to the table and
much more to the conversation that make sure that people
(10:20):
are then getting the care that they actually deserve.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You are named a game changer by Glamour. You are
truly one of the pioneers who is actively reducing the
stigma surrounding mental health and therapy. When you survey the landscape,
where do you think we are with that stigma right now?
I think we've come a very far away.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Like, I think we've done a lot of incredible work,
but I think that there are still more work to
be done, right, Like, I don't know that we're ever
really finished. Just by the fact that we are having
this conversation, so many young people are sharing their experiences
with therapy online. Every time somebody who's a public figure
or somebody who has a large platform talk about like
their own struggles with mental health or mental illness, it
(11:03):
makes it more okay for other people to say, like, oh,
I didn't know that this was a thing that you
could talk with the therapist about, or oh, I don't
feel so alone because other people feel this way as well.
And so I think the more that we talk about it,
the more that we share our experiences, we're continuing to
really chip away at that stigma.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, you brought up young people being really engaged in
this conversation, and I think there's a really interesting dynamic there.
It feels like, and I would need to look at
the research on this, but it feels like we are
the first generation that is prioritizing therapy in such a
powerful way. Why do you think that is? Like, why
(11:42):
do you think things are changing with us and with
the youth? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:47):
So, I think some of it is related to school
counselors in school. So I don't know about you, but
when I was in school, like the school counselor really
was only in charge of like scheduling, like they didn't
actually talk to you about any kind of mental health concerns.
School counselors now actually are there to tend to the
socio emotional needs of students, like dealing with big feelings
(12:08):
and how to meditate and all of these kinds of
things that are really helpful in giving kids language to
describe their interior experiences. I also think that, you know,
because so many of us are aware of the kinds
of things that there could be helpful for, we're also
talking to our kids about it or getting kids support
when they needed, you know. I definitely think a byproduct
(12:28):
of the pandemic was that so many people were struggling,
right and we know that kids especially were really hit
hard by being pulled away from their social connections and
you know, all the things that they were used to,
and so a lot of kids needed some additional support.
And so I think because people are recognizing that kids
have feelings that they need to tend to as well,
it is easier for young people to continue to talk
(12:50):
more about this much more openly.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's time for a short break, but we'll be right
back to wellness Wednesday with doctor joy Hard and Bradford.
And we're back with doctor joy Hard and Bradford. For
people who have never done therapy before, can you talk
(13:14):
a bit about the value of a therapist, like, what
does a therapist uniquely bring to your interior experience as
opposed to just talking to a friend offloading to a spouse.
What are the benefits here? I think it does.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Largely feel like a very foreign experience. Even though so
many of us are talking, you still don't really know
what's happening behind the closed doors. Are in the private zoom, right,
And I think the difference of talking to a therapist
versus like a friend or somebody else in your life
is that it is much more about you. So when
you're talking to a friend, like you might vent and
(13:49):
talk about what's going on with you, and there's also
the expectation that your friend is going to talk about
what's going on with them, yes, whereas with a therapist,
they're there really to just hold space for you and
your concerns, which I think is also a little weird
because it's like, I'm sharing all this information about you,
but I know nothing about what's happening with a therapist
one hundred percent. That's how it's designed, that's how it's
designed to be, right, and I think it is a
(14:11):
great experience because so many of us don't actually slow
down or have those spaces where like people are actually
centering our needs, and so therapy, I think is really
great to be able to just give you space to
talk through whatever is going on with you.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's actually a place to be selfish, yes, which is
kind of nice. And as you get older, it's rare
to find those opportunities as you add more responsibilities into
your life. Exactly. You know you brought up the awkwardness
of like sharing all of your dirty laundry with a therapist, right,
I have so been there. I think anybody who has
(14:47):
done therapy has felt that feeling of like that first
meeting with a therapist. It's so scary it takes a
lot of bravery. I got invited to this group therapy
retreat earlier this year, and at the beginning of it,
they asked all of us to pick a spot in
the room based on how scared we were to start
this experience. None of us knew each other. A couple
(15:09):
of people knew each other, but it was mostly strangers,
and so it was only me and my friend Mariah,
who are all the way on the terrified side of
the scale, isolated from everyone else, and we were like,
I don't want to talk to y'all. I'm not sharing
my secrets. I don't know any of y'all. Y'all gonna
go around town spread my business. But once I started
to feel the trust and trust the process and open
(15:31):
up my heart, the healing from that point on was magical.
And I think the healing in therapy, if you surrender
to it, is truly magical.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, So, first of all, I love that you talked
about like a group therapy experience, because group therapy is
actually my favorite way to practice therapy because I think
what you just said right, like, there's probably something that
happened in that weekend or week however long y'all been
together that it might take six months to a year
for you to get to with an individual therapy, And
so group therapy really just kind of pours gasoline on
(16:03):
healing in a lot of ways because there are just
so many more people to kind of project off of,
and all of this stuff is like in the room
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So I love that you talked about it. On that note,
they were like, watch, sixty percent of your healing is
going to come from watching someone else's healing, and it
was so true everything you said. I stand ten toes
down on it because it was like six months of
therapy packed into five days. I'm always afraid, though, that
therapists are going to judge me and think my baggage
(16:31):
is worse than everyone else's. So will you share what
that first meeting is like? From a therapist perspective.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
The concern around your therapist judging you is a very
common one. So I just want to first normalize this
idea that it is very weird and awkward to be
talking to a stranger about some very personal stuff. But
I also want you to trust that your therapist has
been trained to be able to hear all these things
that you feel like and because it's your personal experience,
you feel like nobody else in the world has ever
(17:02):
felt this way or has had any of these experiences.
But as a therapist, we've also had the experience of
hearing multiple people share things that are probably very similar
to what you're sharing, and so even if the content
is not the same as like another client, we've heard
a lot of things, and so you can trust that
you are not shocking your therapists that we've done enough
(17:23):
training to be able to hold whatever it is that
you come into the room with. But I also want
to give you permission that if you feel judged by
your therapist, to tell them that, because I think that
that is also a great way to just practice advocating
for yourself. Therapy, I think is cool in so many
different ways. But one of my favorite things about therapy
is that it allows you to have some difficult conversations
(17:45):
that you might not have in other places in your life.
So being able to tell the therapist, who is in
a bit of an authority role, hey, I'm kind of
feeling judged by this thing that I shared with you,
and then you be able to talk to your therapist
about that and them share whether they are are judging
you or not. Really is a great conversation that provides
a model for you to have those same kinds of
(18:05):
conversations and other places in your life.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
That piece that you mentioned about feeling like no one
has ever experienced problems like mine, and no one's going
through my struggles, nobody understands, and then only to find
out that as a therapist you see some of the
same recurring themes come up over and over again. Wow,
what a powerful reminder and something to keep in mind
(18:30):
as we're spiraling. You know, what are some of those
recurring themes that keep coming up?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
So I think anxiety has been for years the number
one the most diagnosed mental health condition, and especially kind
of coming out of the pandemic. I think the pandemic
also provided this opportunity for people to really reimagine and
re examine their values. I think lots of people are
trying to come to groups with I thought that this
thing was really important in my life, but now it
isn't so much, and so what does that mean for
(18:58):
the rest of my life? So lots of transitions like
purpose in life kinds of things, and lots of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
For patients who are looking for a therapist who is
a person of color, will you tell us more about
the Therapy for Black Girls database, Lo, this is huge?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah, yeah, So we have over six thousand therapists across
the country and in Canada who really love doing great
work with black women and girls. So they don't necessarily
see black women and girls exclusively, but they really want
to make sure that they are able to be found.
And so I'm just so excited that, like so many
people have become members of our directory and really want
to be found by clients. And I think when you
(19:36):
are looking for a therapist, it is a bit like dating, right,
Like you are trying to see who's going to be
the best fit for you. And I encourage people even
though I know it's so hard, because, especially if you've
been wanting to do therapy for a long time, you
finally have the bravery to make that call, and then
you maybe go to a couple of sessions and you're like, oh,
I don't know that this person is actually a great
(19:58):
fit for me. That it's totally okay because the first
therapist is not necessarily going to be the best fit
for you, And so I think it is okay to
kind of continue to try different therapists until you find
somebody who's actually going to.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Be a great fit for you. How do you know
when it's the right fit?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, you know, I often use this example, you know,
you sometimes like we go to a dentist who doesn't
have the greatest bedside manner, but they're like an excellent dentist,
and so we go because it's like, oh, I only
see them once or twice a year. Right with your therapist,
It's likely not going to be that you're gonna want
to find somebody who has a great bedside manner or
somebody who you really feel like you click with, because
(20:37):
you're likely going to be meeting with them on a
weekly or maybe every other week. Basis, the number one
key to success in the therapeutic relationship is the relationship
that you have with your therapist. So no matter how
we practice, no matter what our degree is in, if
the relationship with the therapist is strong, you're more likely
to see success in therapy. I do think it's also
(20:57):
really important to make sure that the therapist has training
in the thing that you are coming to them for. Right,
So you might find a therapist's website and follow them
on social and you're like, oh, I really love their personality,
But if they're not trained in the thing that you
are needing assistance with, it's probably not going to be
helpful for you.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So let's say that you've been going to therapy for
a minute, you have a good relationship with your therapist,
it can still sometimes be hard to bring up the
issues that you want to talk about. What would you
say to someone who has something that they know that
they need to unpack with their practitioner, but it feels
difficult or shameful to bring it up in their session.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, So first, I think it is important to be
okay that it is slow to warm up to some people, right,
Like that is a part of what it means to
develop healthy relationships with other people is that you kind
of feel them out, like, okay, can I trust this person?
And so that's totally okay that you don't then necessarily
feel comfortable sharing everything in your first session. But if
you are feeling anxious or you're a little worried and
(21:57):
you know there's something you want to share that you
just can't quite bring yourself to share, I would say
to share that, to share that there is something I
want to tell you and it's feeling very difficult for
me to bring it up, And then you will likely
have an incredible conversation with your therapist about what's making
it difficult. In what other places in your life do
you have difficulty disclosing you know, things like this, who
(22:19):
has made you feel bad about this thing in the past, Like,
there's incredible, excellent work that can be done without you
ever even bringing up the thing, and then I think
that those conversations then make it easier. They're almost a
gateway to you feeling okay, this person gets me. I
think I can trust them, and then it is much
easier to share whatever the thing is.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I love that advice exactly when it comes to the
idea of like ending a relationship with the therapist. I
thought you had some really interesting thoughts on this on
your Therapy for Black Girls podcast. This you talked about
this online phenomenon of people saying that they were fired
by their therapist. Can you unpack that a little describe
(22:59):
a center car on which a therapist would tell a
client that they won't be continuing the therapeutic relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
And I think for a lot of clients that feels
very hard to hear sometimes because of what we talked
about earlier, like this idea that I'm too much and
so even this therapist now feels like I'm too much
for them to work with.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
But there are some very good.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Cases why a therapist might feel like I'm not doing
the best service to you because maybe you are presenting
with a concern that I don't actually have expertise with,
right So maybe you came in talking about anxiety, and
you know, I felt like I had a good grasp
on that, but then as we continue to talk, maybe
there's something else going on that I don't have the
appropriate training, and it would be more damaging for me
(23:43):
to kind of continue working with you as opposed to
referring you to somebody who does have training in whatever
the thing is. So I think when people are talking
about being fired, usually what has happened is that the
therapist feels like, Okay, I've maxed out on my skills
here and I don't know that I'm actually going to
be the best person to help you anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Well, I think it's important to remember that there are
so many different types of therapy too. Like I had
a really successful experience with EMDR therapy, which involves this track,
this movement between your eyes and honestly it's kind of
magical and mystical. I don't know how to explain it,
but it helps you repackage and reprocess your trauma. There's
(24:25):
you know, attachment based therapy, there's cognitive behavioral therapy. How
do people figure out what is the best kind of
therapy for them? Like, where do you start in terms
of being your own best advocate.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, and I think when people see all of that,
it can be really overwhelming, especially if you're new to therapy. Now,
I think for people who are kind of therapy savvy,
maybe they work with therapists before they kind of know like, Okay,
I already tried cognitive behavioral and now I want to
try EMDR are something different. But I think as a
new person kind of coming into therapy, which you really
want to look at is do they have success helping
(24:59):
people through whatever it is that you want them to
help you through, because there are lots of different ways
to get to healing, as we already talked about, right like, yeah,
you know, the way I practice therapy may look very
different from the way that somebody practices emd R, but
that doesn't mean that you can't still get good results
regardless of.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
How we practice. We have to take another quick break,
but we'll be right back with doctor joy Hard and
Bradford and we're back. As much as we have normalized
this conversation around therapy and mental health, and you've been
a huge part of that, there are still some barriers
(25:38):
in the way. For a lot of people. Therapy can
be expensive. I know that in the past, when I
haven't been able to afford it, it's been easy to
be like, well, I guess I can't do therapy right now,
or I guess I can't even heal right now. What
are some practices that we can try by ourselves that
might be helpful in our healing process if therapy isn't
(25:58):
on the table right now.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
So I want to first just offer people some resources
because to your point, like you are correct that therapy
can be very expensive, But there are lots of organizations
that offer either vouchers for therapy or like half therapists
who offers some of their sessions at a much discounted rate.
So the Loveland Foundation is a great organization that provides vouchers,
(26:20):
especially for women of color who are interested in therapy.
The Open Path Collective is another organization that has therapists
who offer their services at a sliding scale. I also
encourage people to make sure that you're looking at your benefits.
So if you are employed at a place that has
like an EAP program, sometimes you can get like six
to eight, maybe even twelve sessions completely covered without even
(26:42):
having to use your insurance because your workplace participates in
an EAP program, So definitely make sure you check out
those options if you do actually want to go to therapy.
But cost is an issue. But to your question around
like what kinds of things can we do otherwise to
take care of our mental health. So the number one
one thing that I think that people overlook in terms
(27:02):
of taking care of their mental health is sleep. So
I think many of us are really not getting enough sleep,
or if we are getting sleep, it's not restorative, and
so paying attention to getting six to eight hours of
quality sleep every night can do.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Wonders for your mental health.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
So having a good sleep hygiene routine, trying to go
to bed at the same time every night, waking up
at the same time in the morning, even on the weekends,
even though I know that's hard, but really getting your
body into that routine I think can really really be good.
Physical activity is also really good for our mental health.
So there's all this research that talks about the endorphins
and the serotonin that we really experience and like get
(27:40):
a boost from when we are just even doing light
physical activity. So just going for a walk or you know,
kind of brisk walk in your neighborhood or my favorite,
which is hula hooping in the middle of my kitchen, Like,
any kind of physical activity is really good for your
mental health. And then making sure that we are intentional
about our social connection. So isolation and loneliness it's a
really big hindrance to our mental health, and so making
(28:03):
sure that we're staying connected to people, that we're letting
people know how we're doing, is a great way to
protect your mental health. Well to your point, sisterhood, friendship,
community can be completely life changing, and you wrote a
book all about that, Sisterhood Heals, a love letter to
Black women and the transformative nature of sisterhood. What did
(28:26):
you discover as you were writing that book. I discovered
just how important black women have been to my life
and how important we typically are into each other's lives, right,
like in the book is really a celebration of who
we are to one another, but also an invitation to
how we can do that even better. I think, if
anything else that we have learned through the pandemic is
that the only way to get through difficult times is together.
(28:50):
And so the book is really a guide to how
we can do a better job of showing up for
one another.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Someone the other day was asking me about this quote
that I said, joy is a suit power, And the
only way that I could think to explain it was
really in the context of black women and the black
women who raised me, and you know, seeing my auntie
who's still out a smile on her face even though
(29:15):
she was dealing with cancer, or my mom hosting these
magical gatherings and these like powerful times of connection even
though she was supporting my dad through his really difficult
health struggles. What does that phrase joy as a superpower
mean to you?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing those examples, and I think
joy is the thing that allows us to get through
the more difficult times right now when the world feels
so difficult, so many tragedies, so much stress, and we
can feel guilty about even trying to connect with joy
because it feels like that doesn't feel like a good
thing to do when so many bad things are happening.
But joy is really what allows you to continue to
(29:54):
show up for those times. It's what is restorative, it's
what refused us, and it's really important for us stay
connected to joyful things even despite difficult things happening in
the background. And so I think that that is another
mental health practice that we can, you know, incorporate into
our lives is to stay connected to joy and be
intentional about creating joyful experiences, even if it is just
(30:15):
going for a walk on the weekend or having a
nice couple of hot chalk with like, whatever those little
things are for you, making sure that you're adding that
to your schedule.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I want to end our conversation, doctor Joy by talking
about the results of therapy, because it's often hard to
predict how therapy is going to change us. I mean,
sometimes people make big life changes, they blow up their
lives after having these realizations and discoveries and therapy. And
then another side effect or byproduct of therapy that we
(30:46):
don't often talk about is that healing itself can be isolating.
Sometimes those realizations and revelations that you have in therapy
are going to cause you to take action and perhaps
isolate yourself from people in your life for are toxic
and who are not a part of your healing. Can
you talk a little bit about what we can expect
(31:06):
from therapy, how it's going to change us. Yeah, I
mean I feel like you said a mouthful.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
There's a moone because you're right, Like, sometimes we learn
things about ourselves about how our relationships to other people
actually are not in the best interests of our mental health,
and so we decide to maybe put some distance there.
But it also opens up your capacity to connect with
other people who may be a better fit for you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
It also allows you to develop a different kind of
support system that actually helps you to thrive as opposed
to limits your possibility. So I think that it can
mean that you are leaving some things behind, but it
also means that you are opening the door for lots
of incredible things.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
But it can be painful, Like I.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Don't want to kind of override this idea that it
can be really difficult to kind of tear down all
these pieces that maybe are familiar, which is why many
of us stay there because they're familiar, even if they
are not the healthiest for us. And it can be
differ to create space for something that is new, even
if it is healthier. And so part of what therapy
will be is allowing you to build the resources and
(32:08):
build the support to support this life that is on
the other side of therapy. And so typically when you're
working with your therapist, they are not going to take
something away from you without giving you something to replace it.
And so that's what therapy really is. It's about you
having a better idea of the patterns that you find
yourself in, as it relates to behaviors, as it relates
to relationships, and then realizing and choosing to do something different.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
How do we break those patterns? That's a million dollar question, right,
it really is.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
And I think the first part is recognizing the patterns, right,
like when you realize, like, oh, I keep dating the
same person even though they look very different, they come
from very different places. Like they're typically patterns that we
fall into in our lives, and sometimes we can't see
them because we're too close to it. And so I
think the first step is recognizing when you've gotten yourself
into a pattern and then also understanding like how that
(32:59):
pattern develops. And so for a lot of us, I
think it's some childhood stuff, right, Like it is something
that we're trying to work through from our childhood, but
we're working it out in real time with other people
in our lives, and so therapy really helps you to
recognize the pattern, understand why it's happening, and then put
some other things in place so that you don't keep
repeating that pattern.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Can I ask you a personal question, where are you
in your healing journey? Because whenever I see or meet
a therapist, I'm like, oh, they're healed. They got to
figure out they graduated, they graduated.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Or absolutely not, absolutely not someone. So I think, you know,
most therapists who are self aware also have their own therapists.
So on Tuesdays at two o'clock, I am talking in
the virtual zoom room with my own therapist because I
think you realize, like every new phase of my life,
I have realized I've needed an additional level of support.
(33:53):
You know. I think in grad school, like I had
like lots of imposter syndrome, and so I was talking
to my therapist about that, and recently entrepreneurship and like
writing the book, and like all of that has unlocked
all of these other like insecurities and like worries that
I didn't have language for before because they weren't things
that I was doing. And I'm the mother of two
(34:14):
small boys eight and ten year olds, and so being
a mother and like all the challenges they have as
they grow throughout their life also unlocks of these other
things for me, and so I find that as I
grow in life, as I you know, transition in into
different roles, I need different levels of support. So I'm
not at all one hundred percent healed, nor is any
of us.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Doctor Joy, thank you so much for sharing the bright
side of therapy with us today. On the bright side,
You're welcome. This has been a pleasure. Doctor Joy Harden
Bradford is a licensed psychologist, speaker, and the host of
the podcast Therapy for Black Girls, as well as the
author of Sisterhood Heals, The Transformative Power of Healing in Community.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That's it for today's show.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Tomorrow, we're keeping the mental health conversation going with Anna
Marie Tenler. She's the author of the New York Times
bestseller men have called her crazy. Thank you to our
partners at Coligard, the one of a kind way to
screen for colon cancer in the privacy and comfort of
your own home. Talk to your doctor or healthcare provider,
or go to coliguard dot com slash podcast to see
(35:24):
if you are eligible to order online. If you're forty
five or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
About screening for colon cancer. With Coli Guard.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You can also request a col of Guard prescription today
at coliguard dot com.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Slash podcast, join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side
and connect with us on social media at Hello Sunshine
on Instagram and at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh,
and feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and
at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hosts And Creators
Simone Boyce
Danielle Robay
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.