September 1, 2022 • 55 mins
Janky Jay has a chance encounter with the ghost in her machine, Al sends us down a Swedenborg rabbit hole and the Baron Upon Eaton relays an ancient vision of Venus. They don’t want you to read our book. They don’t want you to see us on tour. q42Jk3hzLwhkSAHQx9Cj
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Grading. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is Null. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this the stuff they
don't want you to know. We're returning Thursdays. This episode
comes out with our weekly listener mail segment. Now, as
(00:48):
you know, August can be a little bit of a
crazy time here in conspiracy Land. So we had some
classics that we hope you enjoyed as much as we do.
And now we're back with one of our favorite parts
to show messages from your fellow conspiracy realist. As always,
long time listeners, it is uh. It is a bit
of a challenge for us to only pick a few. Uh.
(01:11):
We hope that you find these as fascinating as we do.
We're gonna get to some weird places. We're gonna talk
a little bit about ancient aliens. We're gonna talk a
little bit about obscure religious movements, um that you may
or may not apply the C word to and Uh.
(01:32):
And then what better way for us to kick it
off by talking a little bit more about the surveillance state.
I've got some personal experience with this one. But we've
always you know, we've always had this long running joke
for years, Matt. This is back in the YouTube days.
Are are hapless intern Steve Uh. And sometimes we'll be
(01:53):
on we'll be on calls and I'll say something like, well, guys,
just between us and the three of us and whoever
is at the n S A listening right now, here's
here's the straight poop. Yes, substance straight poop. That's strange.
New's got in my head. But we were lucky enough
to receive an email. No, it stood out to you,
(02:15):
it stood out to me. I think it stood out
to YouTube Matt Uh. Someone actually, well, I don't want
to spoil the surprise. They may have met their Steve. Yeah,
it's right, it's and it's just it's just really it's
a good yarn. Here whether no reason not to believe
the veracity of these events. As recounted by our listener
Jankie J. Um, and there are definitely some details I'm
(02:36):
gonna have to kind of edit out here on the
fly as not to endanger anybody's livelihood. Um, but let's
let's let's get to it. This is interesting. So the
subject line is I met my intern Steve that was
previously monitoring me. Um. My spouse and I got married
while I was still completing my undergraduate degree. He was
stationed in Japan on a ship that shall not be named.
(02:57):
Said ship is uh Is. It's quite old, equipped with
defensive weaponry intended for ballistic missiles. UM, let's just call it.
Then the outs somewhere about this ship was monitoring North
Korea and that general area of the ocean, mostly on
its own with some other friends. At the time, North
Korea was amping up its weapons, testing firing missiles in
a display of aggression. You might remember that Trump later
(03:19):
went for peace talks that quote officially that officially ended
the Korean War. So the ship in question here um
was instrumental in preventing any missiles from striking the US
if North Korea decided to say, tried to hit nearby
Guam or Hawaii. At the same time, I had gotten
weirdly obsessed with k pop heard you There BTS in particular,
(03:41):
and needed a history cultural course to complete my undergrad degree.
Why not take Korean studies As part of my Korean
history class. We had to watch hours and hours of
North Korean propaganda on YouTube and other sites to understand
and study the North and South Korean culture. You see
where this is going. I think we do, jan kee j. Meanwhile,
my husband had been out at sea for nearly three
years and we hadn't seen each other after our very
(04:03):
quick courthouse marriage about a year before this, so he
did some rather sneaky and most definitely not allowed moves
to secretly call me in the depths of the night
while his ship was in the middle of the ocean.
We knew that our phone calls would most likely be
intercepted by both the US government, China, and any other
nearby country, so we never spoke about anything related to
the military, etcetera. I just said I miss you, I
(04:24):
love you by etcetera. He would also sneak an email
to me every once in a while. The ship did
not have internet access, he had to use a specific
restricted computer to send the email. Again probably not allowed.
As my semester goes on. I start to notice that
our internet is slow and acting strange and crashing, particularly
when I tried to watch the North Korean propaganda I
needed for my class. I don't know why, but we
(04:45):
watched so much of it. Uh though. We contacted the
internet company and they sent a check out to check it.
They said it was nothing wrong on their end. Um
Then I noticed that my camera light from my laptop
was always on, no matter what. This is a time
before zoom, and which as well, my laptop was old,
so I didn't think much of it. Other strange things
via our internet occur, and my husband actually joked that
(05:07):
my IP address was being monitored by the d D
in an email. He's not part of any form of intelligence, etcetera,
so he wouldn't have actually known. But I went to
some site on Google, and I don't know if the
site was reputable, but they claimed that it would tell
you if you were being monitored, and d o D
popped up. Honestly, I shrugged it off and went about
my business. I wasn't doing anything wrong anyway. Fast forward
(05:29):
to early and somewhere in the outs, I graduated and
moved out to a city in Japan. A small city.
I'm gonna strike the name of the city as well.
We're living in a cute Japanese house a few miles
off the base, and the base was rather small, with
a general population of around thousand people depending on what
ships were in harbor, and like most small towns, most
people knew each other. There's a strip of bars right
(05:51):
off the base that all the military folks hang out
after work. Um. While most ships claimed a particular bar
as their own, there were a few bars that were
fair game for anyone. Honestly, don't remember the name of
the said bar, but everyone knew their Long Island ice
te liquor and also three hundred yen or three dollars. Um.
There were old car seats for chairs. There was a
(06:13):
Japanese scream o punk music blasting uh. It was run
by an attractive and feisty woman that would necessary to
hit you with a pool queue if you misbehaved. UM.
I love this, So here's the here's the here's the kicker. Anyway,
during a long drunken night at my spouse and I
are chatting up a group of sailors when one points
at me and exclaims, I know you, but I didn't
know him. He went on to explain that he monitored
(06:34):
me in my Internet usage because they thought I was
a North Korean sympathizer with connections to said ship um
in charge of watching North Korea at the time, and
that it would be dangerous if I had convinced someone
on the ship too, I don't know, let a missile
slip through or something along those lines. I got the
impression that said person was blackout drunk, but he was
(06:55):
most definitely recalling things from my search history and personal
emails that no that no one else would ever have
known about. Because obviously I didn't believe him at first
and question him on details, including which K dramas I've
been watching. He had strong opinions that I was watching
very good ones. He talked to me like I was
an old friend, and I got the impression that they
were no longer monitoring me because he was curious as
(07:17):
to what I've been up too lately and how I
ended up in Japan. He went on to laugh about
how I was only watching those propaganda videos because of
a college course I was taking. He agreed that that
made a lot of sense and would quote added to
my profile whatever that means over the next year of
me living there, I didn't see the guy again, though
people in the military move quite a lot, and I
(07:39):
didn't spend much time at those Navy bars. I always
wonder what kind of information they have on me and
where slash if it is kept, Yes, I'll never know.
I really doubt they continue to monitor me, as it
was very situational, and in hindsight, I find it really funny.
Who knows, maybe he'll run into your intern Steve at
a bar one day. Best jenky j. I find this
(08:01):
like like the hook at the end of a ghost story. Guys,
this is chilling stuff to me. I don't know how
you took it, but it gives me the creeps in
a very real way. Well, yeah, it reminds you that
your relationships are really important. Right Over the years, when
we've talked about surveillance that's occurring even on a meta
(08:22):
data level, from gosh, the early ODTS, it was often
about correspondence between you, maybe whoever you are, probably in
the US, and somebody else who is not in the US,
right yes, Or you a non military person and someone
you're in a relationship with who is within the military
(08:43):
of some country. That's often where you're going to get
a lot of that surveillance. I don't know. It's certainly eerie.
What are the chances Without giving too many specifics away, Jankie,
as as requested, we're hoping to do our best to
preserve some anonymity here, but without getting into those specifics.
(09:03):
This is a this is somewhat extraordinary case because of
your closeness to uh to the physical location of where
the people monitoring you were based. So that's not going
to happen for most people. And as you pointed out beautifully, Matt,
we discussed this at length in the past. The they're
(09:26):
looking at relationships. So if you want to trust of
all voices out there on the internet, uh, you can
trust you can trust me with this one there. The
surveillance stuff is not specifically just like looking at your
search street one time, right, because there are countless students,
(09:50):
they're countless professionals, They're countless. Let's just be honest about it, folks.
They're countless people who were like stoned at three am
and get really interested in some very specific that looks
sketchy and search history. But what tipped you, Jenkie, outside
of automated surveillance like Hoover vacuum level surveillance that happens
(10:12):
to everybody. What tipped you is the communication we were
having with a military asset. And I'll just keep it
very vague when I say asset there. That is what
that is what got the attention of a human intern
Steve Well and also the repeated viewing of propaganda videos
(10:32):
compared with that. Okay, but if this intern Steve was
aware of that search history and all of the shows
that were being viewed on whatever device Jenkie j was using. Right,
that's a that's a lot of information you've got. How
was the piece of information missing that Jankie was enrolled
(10:52):
in classes because they're specific stuff in these years. Yeah,
but there's online portals in these years and they're they're
looking at our internet, right, Yeah, there would there would
be other evidence of the Yeah, yeah, I've got the
answer to that one. Met So the thing is that
(11:16):
trying to say this diplomatically, I want to be careful,
but uh, there is a known pipeline and established pipeline
between students in different countries and in different fields and tradecraft, spycraft, espionage,
whatever you want to call it. The spooky stuff, right,
the fun stuff. So that's why, for example, you will
(11:39):
have people in grad school who get directly tapped into
working for Uncle Sam's intelligent intelligence apparatus. Uh, the same
thing can happen, like a lot of foreign students can
sometimes be under suspicion, um, perhaps unfairly because of their
country of origin of kay and like that's why, Um,
(12:02):
there are things like obviously there are U S intelligence
assets right now who are surveilling stuff, like the Confucius Institutes.
Do you know what those are, guys, Confucius Institutes? Okay, Yeah,
there's soft Chinese culture centers. Yeah. And in the in
the US especially, um, And there is a note. For
(12:25):
a very long time there has been a known pipeline
with UH intelligence or counterintelligence activities and students. They're perfect
for a lot of the they have a lot of
the ingredients you want for a good operation. And that's like,
I don't know, I guess we don't think about it
(12:46):
as often in the United States. But for another example,
look at Latin America. The theater of Latin America is
full of examples of university students who may have been
aided by a foreign power that wanted to uh, you know,
top of of regime or wanted to move a certain
policy along. Stuff gets dirty, stuff gets muddy. So I
(13:09):
it's probably learned a lot from SDS and stuff from this. Yeah,
exactly right. That maybe my answer is too longer, but this,
I think is is a pretty clear answer to why
they didn't just say, oh, it's a kid who is
maybe UM in a Korean studies class or a Korean
(13:30):
history class, because you know, if anything, oddly enough, as
counterintuitive as that may sound, seeing that UM education history,
may have just exacerbated the concern rather than reduced it.
They're just podcasters to talk about this stuff on a
regular basis. Yeah, but the impetus for even looking into
(13:54):
the traffic was were those off book emails that were
very you know that you could maybe even interpret they
were so banal and kind of like they were making
efforts to like be as like you know, vanilla as possible.
Then maybe that looks suspicious in not of itself, like
is there some sort of code being used here because
there's so little actual information being exchanged, right, right, And
(14:17):
that was that's a good point. Well, because oddly enough,
being vague like that and just checking in with your
loved one. It accomplished the opposite of what you probably
wanted to do here, Jenkie, and so glad that you
all are okay, and I'm very happy that this story
(14:37):
had a funny Endina. I also want to give a
shout out to anybody who said add that to your profile.
That's kind of a weird joke. Not joke, it's it's
kind of like if you ask people who work in
a trauma center or who work in a very busy
e er, you asked them, uh, something funny, like what
(14:58):
something funny that happens that you're job, and you realize
very quickly they have a different sense of humor based
on their experiences. The stuff they find funny is probably
not what the audience of America's Home Funniest Home Videos
would find hilarious. And the same thing can happen in
the sphere of intelligence. But you again, you always have
to assume that what you're saying is, or what you're writing,
(15:20):
or what you're communicating or what you're looking at is
somehow observable to someone else that you may not always
be able to observe on your end. Uh And maybe
that can be spooky, but it's just sort of a
better safe than sorry thing. Um. You know, people can
also get get hacked into for absolutely no reasons. Sometimes
(15:41):
it's just like a numbers game. We'll see what we
can get, right. Sometimes, uh, there might be ransomware. But
to be targeted by to be targeted for surveillance, passive
or whatever, surveillance by an intelligence agency. Um that you
usually have to hit more than once. Switch, usually have
to take more than one box. And it's not necessarily sinister.
(16:06):
It's not necessarily people being out to get you. It's
kind of like when you were a kid walking around
your neighborhood and your neighbor heard something and they just
walked out to get a look at you, you know
what I mean. Doesn't mean they're gonna rest, but it's
it's still it's like a yellow light. How about that.
It's a yellow card. It doesn't take you out of
(16:26):
the game. Like we were talking about what just happened
at my house, like just right before we started rolling,
because that just happened. That's just how you heard it. Yeah,
oh no, no, it was my neighbor or I guess
my neighbor's father was just standing at the end of
the driveway when I walked out with the dogs and
he was just standing there at the end of the
driveway and I was like, just game one of those
(16:48):
little head nods, like I don't know you, okay, Hi,
Well what are you doing right here? Just staring at
my house. It was just it was just somebody's father
being sweet. But in my mind, I was like, what
you look at me? What you want with me? But
there's I don't want to ted talk this or monopolize us.
But uh, something similar, Jankie. You might be uh, not
(17:12):
quite to your level, but something similar just happened to
me unexpectedly before I got back into the States. Uh.
So you you never know. But your location and the
location of the person you're communicating with are one of
the one of the biggest things. You can talk all
the trash you want about Tehran, for instance, but if
(17:32):
you are talking that trash in an email to someone
in Tehran or someone in the stands, then they're gonna
pay a little more attention to that. So glad everybody
was safe. Um, it sounds like you have a lot
of a lot of adventures. So Steve's out there if
you're listening, uh, and if you feel like you can
contact us securely if you're okay with it. I love
(17:54):
to hear your side of these war stories. What do
you guys think about that? We want to hear from
some surveillors. Yeah, sure, do you drive a silver GMC
SUV with California plates? Call us? We want to know
your story. And with that, we'll take a quick pause
and then be back with some more messages from you.
(18:21):
And we have returned with something interesting that I anticipate
we'll we'll create a cool conversation with us. And to
be clear about my ulterior motive, I'm sharing this story
from Al because I I think it can help inform
a future episode. So here we go. Hello, my friends,
(18:42):
you can call me Al. I guess we can do
a bodyguard thing too. So Al says, I've listened to
your show for a while now, and someone I've heard
mentioned several times on stuff they don't want you to know,
as well as some sister shows, is Emmanuel sweden Board.
It catches my attention every time time because I was
raised in a church called the General Church of the
(19:03):
New Jerusalem, a religion also known as sweden Borgianism. I
can't say I completely subscribe to its beliefs, but it
takes its ideas from the works of Emmanuel sweden Board,
and these books are seen as the second coming of
God through sweden Borg. It's a fairly small religion, says Al,
but it's always been fascinating to me the level of
(19:25):
devotion this group of people find in one man's writings.
I myself have read at least parts of his books,
and they actually have some extremely interesting ideas in them.
I went to an extremely small private school based on
this religion, and sweden Borg's books were the basis of
our religion classes, and they were brought into almost every
(19:47):
other class we had as well. I don't mean that
this on the religion or your brief mentions of sweden Borg,
thanks Hal, but the difference between this religion, which holds
them to be a a revered prophet, and outside people
who see him as just another generic psychic is quite
interesting to me. I'm not sure exactly what the point
(20:08):
of this email was, but I thought I could offer
some perspective on the guy as someone who grew up
in a religion centered around him. I also wonder what
other obscure religions there are that have similar origins to
this one uh and then al end saying PS. One
of my favorite books by sweden Borg is called Earth's
in the Universe, also known by some other long name
(20:32):
I can't remember, but it's a fascinating read and talks
about spirits and aliens on other planets in our Solar system,
as well as other unknown planets. His writing takes a
bit to get used to and can be confusing, but
even removed from the religious context, I still suggest giving
it a look, it can be quite entertaining. Al So,
(20:52):
al thank you. I'm considering this an official uh an
official recommendation for the stuff they Don't Want You to
Know book club, which I think could be a lot
of fun. Just glancing through the bibliography, they all sound fascinating. Yeah.
Really the stood out to me because Swedenborg reminds me
in some ways of other um other prophetic figures like
(21:16):
Edgar Casey, who I think we may have done a
YouTube episode on or something many many years ago, but
I can't remember. It might just be something we all
talked about for a while, but it brings us to
kind of UM, I don't know. It feels like a
good set up for the origins of all religions that
(21:38):
are sometimes considered uh fringy maybe or not as well
known as like the Abramaic religions, or as Hinduism and
Buddhism and all the other all the other big ones.
For some people, Swedenborg was really controversial. He he's active
(22:00):
from the lates well, he's born in the late sixteen hundreds,
he's active into well into the late seventeen hundreds. He
lived to be eighty four and right now he's best
known for a book he published in seventeen fifty eight
called Heaven and Hell. You call him kind of a
(22:20):
renaissance man these days, theologian, scientists, philosopher, and yes mystic.
So for a lot of our more skeptical listeners, just
calling someone a mystic might seem like it already damages
their credibility. But his story is really interesting to me,
and it makes him want us to look at more
examples of kind of self proclaimed profits that were maybe
(22:45):
non canonical, because you know, the most people are familiar
with the profits that are listed in older established religions, right,
but there there is a proliferation of people who are
non canonical whole profits like they and their followers consider
them Christian adjacent profits or even um, you know, the
(23:08):
profits of another religion that the status quo just thinks
of his regular people. Or maybe maybe heretics. Um. This
guy thought he was divinely inspired. He had He didn't
really get started on this until he was fifty three
years old in seventeen forty one. And he so he
(23:30):
didn't like um. He didn't spend his whole life being uh,
you know, like a charismatic thinker and preacher. He started
to have these crazy dreams and visions when he was
in his fifties, especially one Easter weekend in seventeen forty four,
and he believed, and I have no reason to question
(23:52):
this belief. I don't think he was after the money.
He believed that the biblical Jesus Christ had divinely appointed
him to reform Christianity the whole thing. And he had
these powers again from his statements that he could visit
heaven and Hell, he could speak with angels, and he
would Well here's the thing. He predicted the end of
(24:16):
the world. I think the three of us saw saw
that maybe in the cards. Yeah okay, okay, yeah yeah
in two November. No, no, no, I'm just joking. I
don't know any Jesus you had me going there, nothing
like an end of the world prophecy to to get you,
(24:39):
to get you a little stressed out. Yeah, I'm being
you know what, I'm maybe I'm editorializing a little bit
because he actually said if I if I understand this correctly,
He actually said the last judgment had already occurred in
seventeen seventy seven, but he went ahead and published a
(25:00):
other work in seventeen fifty eight concerning the New Jerusalem
and it's heavenly doctrine. And right now there is a
little bit of debate over whether all of his works
are divinely inspired or whether just a few are. But
as you pointed out, al we will call you al Uh,
this did inspire a movement that continues today. The New
(25:25):
Church is actually a group term. There are several different
historically related denominations of Sweden Organism and I don't know,
so I'm on this is where my American comes out, right.
I believe in religious plurality. I think if you're not
(25:47):
hurting anyone, then you should be able to believe what
you like. But Sweden Organism has some criticisms, and they're
they're historic, they date back to the seventeen hundreds. But
just just with all this now, all this this information
we have, now, I've got to ask you guys, uh,
(26:08):
matt no, no, matt um, what do you think about
the idea of someone being divinely inspired and accruing followers
in this regard? Are we all very skeptical about it?
Or where where do we stand on the spectrum here?
It's super hard to disprove. How do you disprove if
(26:29):
someone is actually being communicated with by some other entity?
I don't know how to do it. You can question
that person, You could give him a truth serum, even
you can hook him up to a polygraph, and if
the person truly believes it, then you're going to get
the same results, right, even if it's not true. It's
(26:49):
it's very odd. Yeah, I hear you. Man, Like, the
the idea here is that I don't know. One of fairness,
one of letting other people do is they will. But
I think it only really becomes dangerous when that leader,
whoever they are, is directing people to act against their
(27:10):
own physical, emotional, or psychological interest. And I feel like
that's a very easy line to draw because there are numerous,
numerous alternative we would call them religions where people are
just fine. It gives them the spiritual solace they need,
They're not hurting themselves or anybody else. I feel like
(27:31):
with that in mind, we can totally say let's go
for it. But I also think I want to get
in contact with Al. I'm actually gonna do that later.
Also act surprised, uh unless Swedenborg predicted it. UH want
to get some more understanding of the idea that he
had spiritual or psychic powers. This was much more common
(27:56):
actually back in the day than it was in later centuries.
Like there was this proliferation of people who felt dividely
inspired where they made predictions or they claimed to be
clear avoyance. And ever since that time there have also
been people who have said, um, that it's bunk, which,
to be clear, we're not. We're not doing yet. But
would this would you guys be interested in exploring these
(28:19):
uh kind of lesser known spiritual leaders, Yes, a million percent.
I mean this guy, you know this list of works.
The names are just in and of themselves, fascinating. Doctrine
of the Lord, Doctrine of the sacred scripture, you know,
apocalypse reveal, divine providence, um, interaction of the soul in
the body. Like there's just so much to unpack here.
(28:40):
And uh, yeah, I think you know, even like something
like um behind faith, you know, the like more modern profits.
I think there is something for an episode and that
kind of stuff. Absolutely, it's weird. It's weird to think
that there are probably just as many people today, if
not a more, who feel this. I've been just to
(29:02):
your point of like it. It was more common back
in the day for people to be definally definely inspired
or field definely inspired. I think now we just label
it as some kind of mental health crisis or issue
rather than what we would consider someone who truly felt
divinely inspired, right or was hearing voices of another from
a higher power. Yeah, and part of that is, you know,
(29:24):
the spread of mass media and ubiquitous communication. Sweden words
so interesting because what you're describing that that is something
he experienced as well. A lot of his peers thought, wow,
this guy has lost it, right, they say, no longer
mentally fit. Uh. The church of the time actively opposed him,
(29:47):
and like you pointed out, al a lot of people
didn't get his writing because it was it's pretty if
you've read it, if you've read some of it. I
haven't read all of it, obviously, but if you've read
some of it, then you'll see that it's very uh,
very involved, it's very articulate, it can be very advanced,
and he is actually responsible for inspiring a lot of things,
(30:12):
a lot of movements that would later that would be
much more recognizable to the average person to date, Like
you can see claims that he sort of paved the
way for the spiritualism movement. Uh. He also had several
several stories that people went back and forth on when
he was alive that were um anecdotes about his psychic abilities.
(30:36):
I think the most famous one was in the seventeen
fifty nine he claimed that he saw a huge fire
in Stockholm, Sweden, while he himself was three hundred miles away,
that he was instantly aware of it. And you know,
obviously this was before Twitter, so he wasn't just reading
retweets uh, or they were divine retweets. I'm not sure
(30:57):
where we land with that, but with this again, he
reminds me of Edgar Casey. Uh. He also has a
whether or not, you believe it. He has very developed
um understanding what he sees is the afterlife, the nature,
reality and heaven in hell he believes in. Uh. He
(31:18):
believes in both of those things, like Christianity is very
much the base. Um. So what I want to talk
about here is I want to like really explore the
idea that he may have had strange powers or that
people believe he did, and some people believe even now.
So we're going to keep this one short and before
(31:39):
we go to our next commercial break, just say, al
expect us to quote to quote anonymous. We won't be anonymous.
You'll know it's us. Uh. And then we also would
also love to hear from all of our fellow conspiracy realists,
other folks that you think maybe examples of a sweden
Borg like figure in the world or throughout history. Right,
(32:02):
so the Anger Casies, the sweden Borgs, um, maybe even
the Leads Scalmand, the Coral Castle guy, that might be
another one. But we looked at that there's a whole
period of history that is often ignored in the mainstream
and let's dive into it and let's see what we
can find if we separate the fact from the fiction
and find some clarity in the controversy. So let us
(32:26):
know one sdd w y t K hit us up
conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com. Read every email
we get, but don't do it yet because we're pausing.
Word from our sponsor and we'll be back with more
stories from you. All right, We're back, guys. Uh. We're
(32:49):
gonna call this segment bunk or skunk as in weed.
It's skunk weed good or bad? Is I think it's good?
It's bad? I always thought it had just met it
was really really strongly smelling. That's that's probably what it is.
It's just it's about the smell. So it could it
(33:10):
could be bad, it could be good. I think it
depends on Yeah, well either way, it rhymes. So we're
going to decide if this next idea, this thought experiment
is bunk or skunk. This is silly, Okay. This is
a message we received from the Baron upon Eaton. Uh.
And this is what the baron said, Good afternoon everyone.
(33:32):
This is the Baron upon Eaton. I keep calling that.
He just says Baron Eaton. This is Baron Eaton. Emailing
this time because it might be a ramble and Honestly,
a grand unified conspiracy theory needs to be woven by
the word, not by speech. After listening to the episode
about the rainwater becoming dangerous, remember we talked about that
the forever chemicals in the rainwater. It made me think
(33:55):
of what this sounded like in my memory banks Venus. Okay,
we're gonna keep going with you, Baron. Then the Eldrich
horror showed up and poked my squishy human brain. What
if the Bible itself wasn't about the creation of Earth,
but instead the terraforming of Earth by the ancient aliens,
(34:17):
which eventually became us. What if we can't find the
missing link because the link never existed we had to
escape Venus to terraform Earth, much like how we look
to terraform Mars after messing up the Earth to this point, Guys,
full stop that thought, I've never had it before. That's intense.
(34:40):
I've never had the thought that Venus specifically was the
planet from which from whence humanity may have come, or
or intelligent life may have come. I like it. Yeah,
it's been there. People have thought about this in the past.
It's actually part of it is due to the proximity
of Venus and Mars to Earth, right, Uh, and you
(35:03):
know you're familiar with the Mars stuff. The idea that, uh,
is human life now or what is Earth life? Came
from Mars. But see, that makes way more sense to me.
The Mars thing makes sense to me because of how
similar it is to to planet Earth when it when
it comes to the rocky like super rocky formation um
(35:26):
temperature difference isn't that isn't as nuts um. It seems
as though there was at least water on Mars at
some point. Venus just feels like such a different story. Anyway,
we're gonna get into that. Let's continue with what Baron says.
Parents says, what if our ancestors knew we would do
this again and left the Bible as a record on
(35:48):
how they terraformed Earth but had to cloak it in
religion after everything sort of fell apart. One can only
imagine what would happen on Mars if the technology faded
after the terraforming was completed. It's really interesting idea too.
The only reason I really tied all this together was
the ancient Greek story of the humans who traveled into
space and fought alongside the King of the Moon to
(36:11):
fight the King of Venus. So like they teamed up
with the King of the Moon to fight the King
of Venus, Baron said. Barren says, a true story. Satire
for sure. But what if then we throw in the
tails of sentience sky whales in Venus atmosphere, because of
course they would exist. This opens the door for the
dolphin and Luminatio, or overlords of this world, who keep
(36:32):
an eye out on us for their masters, the Reptilians,
who of course reside inside the Hall of Moon. And
that is how an Idol Monday ruined my life and
opened my mind up to terrible space horrors that should
not be recognized. Baron, I got something. I got something
for you. I got something for you guys to hear. Okay,
(36:53):
first off, awesome letter, Thank you for ready. I actually
prefer the emails because you know, you can get links
with could go back and you do all this neat
stuff with him. But this this is something you'm t
you how to see this? Okay. There are some people
who are interested in something related to what you're thinking about, Baron,
(37:17):
and the identity of these people may surprise you. It
wasn't too long ago, back in when NASA themselves came
out with a climate model that said Venus may have
been a habitable planet for Earth like life, um for
up to two billion years of its initial history. We're
(37:39):
talking liquid ocean, habitable surface temperature, all the good stuff,
all the works. Uh. Still, that's that's basically a model.
And one of the simply put this is oversimplifying it.
One of the concerns, or one of the questions about
that model for a lot of people is whether some
(38:01):
kind of ecological disaster or an increation of greenhouse gases
led to what we know as Venus today, which is
very much not a fun happy place for humans. Yeah,
because the Venus in the atmosphere, it is going through
a runaway greenhouse effect. That's one of the primary reason
why people think that. Right, So if you check out
(38:23):
more information from NASA, you you learned that. I mean,
this is stuff that we learned a long time ago,
probably in our elementary schools. But Venus is known as
Earth's twinters, referred to as Earth's twin. It doesn't mean
they're exactly identical, but the density of both of both
planets and the size of both planets is relatively similar, right,
(38:44):
And it's that atmosphere thing that for a long time
just made people think, oh that thing is I mean,
nothing can live on that thing. It's it's got this
super thick atmosphere toxic. Yeah, yeah, carbon dioxide though is
one of the and the w but also like clouds
of sulfuric acid. Yeah, that's that's generally no, no no, no,
(39:07):
this is particularly screaming you know, human habitability, right, Yeah,
it's all, but it is weird to think that it's
the hottest planet in our solar system, especially when Mercury
is so much closer to the Sun. This is so
hot right now really quickly. I just I just just googling,
(39:32):
just trying to get the composition of the atmosphere, and
it's found this article on the Conversation. Just gonna read
the headline. We can talk about it or move on.
But I think it's a valid addition. Ancient Earth had
a thick, toxic atmosphere like Venus until it cooled off
and became livable. Because even those climate models that you
were referencing that you are talking about, they don't know
(39:54):
exactly Okay, if there were if there were some kind
of liquid water endly environment in Venus other atmospheric aspects aside. Uh,
people don't know right now what would have changed and
created that positive feedback loop of an increasingly increative, of
a word, more and more hostile environment. And again that's
(40:17):
very that's very earth centric, if not anthrocentric, for everybody,
because there there may be some kind of form of
life on Venus right now, and they think Earth is
a garbage neighborhood. It's all about perspective. But yeah, they
just have to withstand nine degree surface temperatures. It's fine, oh,
(40:38):
which is hot enough to melt lead, by the way,
and uh, what was the other thing is the oh
the air pressure. It's crazy. Air pressure currently on Venus
because of the situation above the surface, is about nine
times that of Earth, which really got my mind going,
you guys, because I'm imagining the surface PRESSU sure would
(41:00):
have been relatively the same, right what air pressure would
have changed, but it still would have been super heavy there.
And I imagined what if something lived in that pressure
and then it it decided to exit that planet and
go somewhere else, would it need to recreate that pressure
in order to survive? Does that make sense? With with humans,
(41:23):
we have to if we're going to travel down into
the ocean, we have to create technology that will protect
our fragile meat bodies from the pressures involved. Right yeah,
that's why, right, like creatures would a sense of like Logically,
it follows that they would need special equipment to survive
(41:45):
without those uh, those enormous pressures, those pounds for square
hps hi or whatever. But that's I do want to
say in defense of that poor blob fish whose picture
gets taken all the time on the surface world, that
poor guy looks a lot better when he's in his
natural environment. He caught him on a bad Yeah, well,
(42:07):
well in that natural environment, that's what I want to
talk about. So the equivalent of that ninety times air
pressure of Earth is too roughly one point six kilometers
or five thousand, two eight feet below the ocean right now.
This this section of the ocean is called the midnight
(42:29):
zone or the bathopelagic zone, maybe that's how you say it. Um,
it's between three thousand feet and feet, so it's a
it's a nice little zone beneath the ocean where these
pressures exist. The equivalent pressures of the surface of Venus,
my thought was, you, guys, what if they observed Earth
(42:50):
and noticed that the pressures they would need to live
in comfortably do exist on Earth. It's just you have
to go under the ocean to find them and live
amongst those pressures. And then they went down that far
and built structures to continue their civilization. And those suckers
(43:11):
are the ones we keep seeing in the skies. Boom.
We figured it all out, guys, asked the whole time.
We got them folks. Yeah, especially because Congress just put
out a very uh, very tantalizing statements regarding U A
p Um. I. You know, Matt, I feel like we're
(43:33):
almost there. I think we're there. There's two percent. Might
just be really important for us to us to to
think through because one of the big questions is why
would there not have been more communication? Did something happen
to those life forms or entities? Did um the timeline
(43:53):
aspect of real life events being transformed over time in
to religion, to folklore to myth right, which are all religion, folklore,
and myth are very closely related. I don't want to
ruffle any feathers, you know what I mean, But they
are psychologically, they're very closely related and sociologically. So it
(44:16):
is true we're helping build this case here. It is
true that there are a lot of uh, real world
inspirations for things that later become folklore and become myth
and indeed become religions. We would just need we would
need to really think through the timeline because if we're
talking about billions of years, right, then we're also then
(44:43):
challenging some current assumptions about human beings because human beings
had like what was it, uh, the ones that look
like you if you're human and listening now. They came
out of the African continent as we call it today
about three hundred thousand years ago, but they didn't start
exhibiting what we would call modern behavior, behavioral modernity, cognitive
(45:08):
traits that we associate with modern humans didn't get that
until uh, like almost a hundred and fifty thousand years later.
So that would mean that or more than three hundred
thousand years, there had to be some kind of knowledge
of this thing that somehow got carried through a massive
(45:28):
sea change maybe poor choice of words here, but a
massive sea change in human cognition. And I don't know,
that's tough, that's tough to get your head around, you
know it is. I mean, the time scales gere r
are there are the big question or the big thing
for me, because if there was an advanced civilization on
Venus at some point, how could we possibly have observed
(45:49):
it at this point given the missions that we've sent
to Venus, how close we've been to Venus, even if
we've taken high high resolution pictures of the surface of
Venus and mapped the full thing, how would you be
able to detect uh technological structures advanced structures on the
surface of that planet given that time scale, Because as
we know, nature breaks stuff down really quickly, right, so
(46:13):
you we'ld never be able to observe it. At least
in all probability, we would never be able to observe
it unless it was some massive structure that encompassed a
huge area and for some reason it didn't break down
amongst all the sulfuric acid. That's just like hanging out
with it at all times on the surface. The other
question I have is related to something you already state
(46:35):
had been that greenhouse effect, like how long really, how
long has it been going and what what caused it?
There's no way for us to know that without modeling it.
As you said, we can make a model of Venus
current state and try and run it back right and
just understand will and again using probability and what we
(46:56):
see happening now this is this is likely what happened,
and we can build those out. But there's many different possibilities.
I don't know. It's just really opened my mind up.
Considering there are three major missions heading to Venus in
the short term twenty seven there's gonna be a mission
called Veritas through NASA. In the late twenty twenties, there's
(47:21):
gonna be one called Da Vinci, and there's another one
titled e s a Venus Express. That one just happened,
and that one, uh was, like I think when it concluded,
But then there's another one happening. So there's a lot
of looking at Venus happening right now. Does it make
(47:41):
you wonder why guys Baron Eaton knows why he seems
to know something that we don't know where they don't
want us to know. I don't know, like where your
head's at, Baron, Yeah, I would want to check out
Venus as soon as possible. And it's it's part of
the natural sort of evolution of human thought. Right, how
(48:04):
do you learn more about the world around you? Not
for nothing is Venus called sort of the sister one
of the sister planets right of Earth, because, like you described, Matt,
outside of some very obvious, very dangerous differences, Venus does
have a lot in common with planet Earth. And you know,
(48:25):
ultimately the goal of Earth, life on Earth is and
always has been to expand. Right. We talked about this earlier,
to propagate, to make more of itself. So maybe, uh,
maybe sooner than we think, we'll get some of those answers.
Or maybe somebody will land on Venus, which has a
kind of a younger surface than uh than Earth. Maybe
(48:46):
they'll land on Venus, and maybe they'll see something that
rocks the very foundation of life as we know it.
But I saw you got an idea, Matt. Okay, alright,
I'm not high. I don't do weet. Uh, I saw
(49:06):
it marijuana, And then we did work. That's a really
fun game. I only do not an arc. Just don't
do we Okay, imagine that, just to imagine you are
one of these disadvanced civilization on Venus. You have to
(49:29):
escape your planet because you're really mess things up. Royally,
you see Earth, you figure out you know that you
can you can live up in that ocean part where
the pressure is right, or with technology you have maybe
even on the surface. You just have to spend a
lot of your resources building structures and systems that can
sustain your life. What if eventually they figure out a way,
(49:52):
after terraforming the planet just a little bit or enough,
they figure out a way to rid themselves of that
technology necessary to sustain their life so that they can
just live on the planet as you know fauna to
be creatures of this planet. But what if it's not humanity.
What if we're focusing on the wrong type of creature.
(50:15):
What if it's let's say, a sea creature. Uh so
bid I like one of my dreams that they're one
of my dreams life like a very advanced funus. But yeah,
I'm with you on sea creatures man amazing like like
a whale or yeah maybe or even more different some
(50:36):
of those super speaky deep deep deep sea ones and octopus. Yeah,
they're more deep sea creatures being discovered. Uh, let's just
do it. Let's just like, let's throw the budget into
getting a submarine and and explore explore the attic depths.
Short of that, they did just add Planet Earth o
G Planet Earth back to Netflix UM And one of
(50:59):
my favorite of those and just about any nature documentary
is the Deep Oceans episode of Planet Earth UM with
like the Vampire Squid, and I mean, it's just remarkable.
It really is like like an alien planet down there.
Remember when we got the box set exactly. I have
that thing playing that specific episode playing in the background
(51:20):
so often when I'm I'm researching, especially when I'm really
paranoid and I'm thinking, I don't want to watch Netflix.
I don't want to know it where I'm at, you know,
I don't want him knowing, Like how much I like
Iron Chef, which actually the original Lion Chef is on
It's free. Yeah, I need you guys to watch the
rehearsal asap. Look, seriously, I've seen the first feel fabulous.
(51:45):
Really do it. I've only seen the first episode that
I can't wait to watch more. It's wonderful. I'll do it.
It's best about it the better. Don't just seriously, don't
spoil anything, dude, don't I know you like what you like?
Still do it? All right? You you you jokers haven't
seen Nope yet, have you. I loved it. I loved
(52:07):
every minute of it, and and it's a movie that
the more I talk about with friends and read about,
the more I like it more and more and more,
and the more I want to see it again. Ben
I will only say this to you about Nathan. I'm
just gonna out there life life simulator, life simulator. That's
all I'm gonna say. For rehearsal or for Nope, well
(52:29):
microcosm both, it doesn't kind of apply to both. Nope. Yes,
I think it's his best movie. I think it's his
best movie. And it was getting a little bit lukewarm reviews,
but I think a lot of people didn't quite get it,
and I certainly didn't immediately. But it rewards, uh, you know,
further thought and um analysis, and it deals with a
lot of themes that we talked about on this show regularly.
(52:52):
I can't wait for you to see a Benz and
all three of us can talk about it together. Well,
I have I know everything that happens. And Nope, I
already read the spoilers. Just assume that I'm gonna read
the spoilers unless you specifically ask me not to man,
that's just how it is. Uh so I will it
almost is. You almost can't spoil it. You almost can't
(53:13):
spoil it for yourself. It's an experiential thing. With that movie,
I would argue you can have you can spoil the beats,
but when you really see it and then like, let's
take it all into your noggin, it's a different experience.
And speaking of experiences, if you would like to take
a page from the book of jen Kie, a page
from they call him Al, a page from our new
(53:34):
favorite Baron, and experience being on this show with us, well,
we would love to have you, as they say in
the American South, come on down, uh be a part
of the show. We cannot wait to welcome you and
share your stories with your fellow conspiracy realists. We try
to make it easy. All you have to do is
find us online, which is way easier than landing on venus.
(53:57):
The internet is one place you can find us where
we are conspiracy stuff on Twitter, YouTube, and uh the
other one uh Facebook or we have a Facebook group
called here where it gets crazy and then we are
conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. Um. If you don't want
to do any of those internety things. You can do
a slightly less internetything and give us a telephone call.
That's right. It's a story older than my teeth, but
(54:19):
as old as my tongue. Call one eight three std
w y stuff. Sorry, just freaking love that. I want
to use that all the time. Okay, we have a
phone number. It is one eight three three st d
w y t K. When you call in, it is
a voicemail system. Give us a cool name, not your
real name, just for safety, and then say whatever you want.
(54:41):
You've got three minutes. Please let us know whether or
not you give us permission to use your name and
voice on one of these listener mail episodes. If you
got more to say than can fit in that three minutes,
why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. M
(55:16):
Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production
of I heart Radio. For more podcasts, form my heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Grading. Hello, welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
My name is Matt, my name is Null. They called
me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer
Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here, and that makes this the stuff they
don't want you to know. We're returning Thursdays. This episode
comes out with our weekly listener mail segment. Now, as
(00:48):
you know, August can be a little bit of a
crazy time here in conspiracy Land. So we had some
classics that we hope you enjoyed as much as we do.
And now we're back with one of our favorite parts
to show messages from your fellow conspiracy realist. As always,
long time listeners, it is uh. It is a bit
of a challenge for us to only pick a few. Uh.
(01:11):
We hope that you find these as fascinating as we do.
We're gonna get to some weird places. We're gonna talk
a little bit about ancient aliens. We're gonna talk a
little bit about obscure religious movements, um that you may
or may not apply the C word to and Uh.
(01:32):
And then what better way for us to kick it
off by talking a little bit more about the surveillance state.
I've got some personal experience with this one. But we've
always you know, we've always had this long running joke
for years, Matt. This is back in the YouTube days.
Are are hapless intern Steve Uh. And sometimes we'll be
(01:53):
on we'll be on calls and I'll say something like, well, guys,
just between us and the three of us and whoever
is at the n S A listening right now, here's
here's the straight poop. Yes, substance straight poop. That's strange.
New's got in my head. But we were lucky enough
to receive an email. No, it stood out to you,
(02:15):
it stood out to me. I think it stood out
to YouTube Matt Uh. Someone actually, well, I don't want
to spoil the surprise. They may have met their Steve. Yeah,
it's right, it's and it's just it's just really it's
a good yarn. Here whether no reason not to believe
the veracity of these events. As recounted by our listener
Jankie J. Um, and there are definitely some details I'm
(02:36):
gonna have to kind of edit out here on the
fly as not to endanger anybody's livelihood. Um, but let's
let's let's get to it. This is interesting. So the
subject line is I met my intern Steve that was
previously monitoring me. Um. My spouse and I got married
while I was still completing my undergraduate degree. He was
stationed in Japan on a ship that shall not be named.
(02:57):
Said ship is uh Is. It's quite old, equipped with
defensive weaponry intended for ballistic missiles. UM, let's just call it.
Then the outs somewhere about this ship was monitoring North
Korea and that general area of the ocean, mostly on
its own with some other friends. At the time, North
Korea was amping up its weapons, testing firing missiles in
a display of aggression. You might remember that Trump later
(03:19):
went for peace talks that quote officially that officially ended
the Korean War. So the ship in question here um
was instrumental in preventing any missiles from striking the US
if North Korea decided to say, tried to hit nearby
Guam or Hawaii. At the same time, I had gotten
weirdly obsessed with k pop heard you There BTS in particular,
(03:41):
and needed a history cultural course to complete my undergrad degree.
Why not take Korean studies As part of my Korean
history class. We had to watch hours and hours of
North Korean propaganda on YouTube and other sites to understand
and study the North and South Korean culture. You see
where this is going. I think we do, jan kee j. Meanwhile,
my husband had been out at sea for nearly three
years and we hadn't seen each other after our very
(04:03):
quick courthouse marriage about a year before this, so he
did some rather sneaky and most definitely not allowed moves
to secretly call me in the depths of the night
while his ship was in the middle of the ocean.
We knew that our phone calls would most likely be
intercepted by both the US government, China, and any other
nearby country, so we never spoke about anything related to
the military, etcetera. I just said I miss you, I
(04:24):
love you by etcetera. He would also sneak an email
to me every once in a while. The ship did
not have internet access, he had to use a specific
restricted computer to send the email. Again probably not allowed.
As my semester goes on. I start to notice that
our internet is slow and acting strange and crashing, particularly
when I tried to watch the North Korean propaganda I
needed for my class. I don't know why, but we
(04:45):
watched so much of it. Uh though. We contacted the
internet company and they sent a check out to check it.
They said it was nothing wrong on their end. Um
Then I noticed that my camera light from my laptop
was always on, no matter what. This is a time
before zoom, and which as well, my laptop was old,
so I didn't think much of it. Other strange things
via our internet occur, and my husband actually joked that
(05:07):
my IP address was being monitored by the d D
in an email. He's not part of any form of intelligence, etcetera,
so he wouldn't have actually known. But I went to
some site on Google, and I don't know if the
site was reputable, but they claimed that it would tell
you if you were being monitored, and d o D
popped up. Honestly, I shrugged it off and went about
my business. I wasn't doing anything wrong anyway. Fast forward
(05:29):
to early and somewhere in the outs, I graduated and
moved out to a city in Japan. A small city.
I'm gonna strike the name of the city as well.
We're living in a cute Japanese house a few miles
off the base, and the base was rather small, with
a general population of around thousand people depending on what
ships were in harbor, and like most small towns, most
people knew each other. There's a strip of bars right
(05:51):
off the base that all the military folks hang out
after work. Um. While most ships claimed a particular bar
as their own, there were a few bars that were
fair game for anyone. Honestly, don't remember the name of
the said bar, but everyone knew their Long Island ice
te liquor and also three hundred yen or three dollars. Um.
There were old car seats for chairs. There was a
(06:13):
Japanese scream o punk music blasting uh. It was run
by an attractive and feisty woman that would necessary to
hit you with a pool queue if you misbehaved. UM.
I love this, So here's the here's the here's the kicker. Anyway,
during a long drunken night at my spouse and I
are chatting up a group of sailors when one points
at me and exclaims, I know you, but I didn't
know him. He went on to explain that he monitored
(06:34):
me in my Internet usage because they thought I was
a North Korean sympathizer with connections to said ship um
in charge of watching North Korea at the time, and
that it would be dangerous if I had convinced someone
on the ship too, I don't know, let a missile
slip through or something along those lines. I got the
impression that said person was blackout drunk, but he was
(06:55):
most definitely recalling things from my search history and personal
emails that no that no one else would ever have
known about. Because obviously I didn't believe him at first
and question him on details, including which K dramas I've
been watching. He had strong opinions that I was watching
very good ones. He talked to me like I was
an old friend, and I got the impression that they
were no longer monitoring me because he was curious as
(07:17):
to what I've been up too lately and how I
ended up in Japan. He went on to laugh about
how I was only watching those propaganda videos because of
a college course I was taking. He agreed that that
made a lot of sense and would quote added to
my profile whatever that means over the next year of
me living there, I didn't see the guy again, though
people in the military move quite a lot, and I
(07:39):
didn't spend much time at those Navy bars. I always
wonder what kind of information they have on me and
where slash if it is kept, Yes, I'll never know.
I really doubt they continue to monitor me, as it
was very situational, and in hindsight, I find it really funny.
Who knows, maybe he'll run into your intern Steve at
a bar one day. Best jenky j. I find this
(08:01):
like like the hook at the end of a ghost story. Guys,
this is chilling stuff to me. I don't know how
you took it, but it gives me the creeps in
a very real way. Well, yeah, it reminds you that
your relationships are really important. Right Over the years, when
we've talked about surveillance that's occurring even on a meta
(08:22):
data level, from gosh, the early ODTS, it was often
about correspondence between you, maybe whoever you are, probably in
the US, and somebody else who is not in the US,
right yes, Or you a non military person and someone
you're in a relationship with who is within the military
(08:43):
of some country. That's often where you're going to get
a lot of that surveillance. I don't know. It's certainly eerie.
What are the chances Without giving too many specifics away, Jankie,
as as requested, we're hoping to do our best to
preserve some anonymity here, but without getting into those specifics.
(09:03):
This is a this is somewhat extraordinary case because of
your closeness to uh to the physical location of where
the people monitoring you were based. So that's not going
to happen for most people. And as you pointed out beautifully, Matt,
we discussed this at length in the past. The they're
(09:26):
looking at relationships. So if you want to trust of
all voices out there on the internet, uh, you can
trust you can trust me with this one there. The
surveillance stuff is not specifically just like looking at your
search street one time, right, because there are countless students,
(09:50):
they're countless professionals, They're countless. Let's just be honest about it, folks.
They're countless people who were like stoned at three am
and get really interested in some very specific that looks
sketchy and search history. But what tipped you, Jenkie, outside
of automated surveillance like Hoover vacuum level surveillance that happens
(10:12):
to everybody. What tipped you is the communication we were
having with a military asset. And I'll just keep it
very vague when I say asset there. That is what
that is what got the attention of a human intern
Steve Well and also the repeated viewing of propaganda videos
(10:32):
compared with that. Okay, but if this intern Steve was
aware of that search history and all of the shows
that were being viewed on whatever device Jenkie j was using. Right,
that's a that's a lot of information you've got. How
was the piece of information missing that Jankie was enrolled
(10:52):
in classes because they're specific stuff in these years. Yeah,
but there's online portals in these years and they're they're
looking at our internet, right, Yeah, there would there would
be other evidence of the Yeah, yeah, I've got the
answer to that one. Met So the thing is that
(11:16):
trying to say this diplomatically, I want to be careful,
but uh, there is a known pipeline and established pipeline
between students in different countries and in different fields and tradecraft, spycraft, espionage,
whatever you want to call it. The spooky stuff, right,
the fun stuff. So that's why, for example, you will
(11:39):
have people in grad school who get directly tapped into
working for Uncle Sam's intelligent intelligence apparatus. Uh, the same
thing can happen, like a lot of foreign students can
sometimes be under suspicion, um, perhaps unfairly because of their
country of origin of kay and like that's why, Um,
(12:02):
there are things like obviously there are U S intelligence
assets right now who are surveilling stuff, like the Confucius Institutes.
Do you know what those are, guys, Confucius Institutes? Okay, Yeah,
there's soft Chinese culture centers. Yeah. And in the in
the US especially, um, And there is a note. For
(12:25):
a very long time there has been a known pipeline
with UH intelligence or counterintelligence activities and students. They're perfect
for a lot of the they have a lot of
the ingredients you want for a good operation. And that's like,
I don't know, I guess we don't think about it
(12:46):
as often in the United States. But for another example,
look at Latin America. The theater of Latin America is
full of examples of university students who may have been
aided by a foreign power that wanted to uh, you know,
top of of regime or wanted to move a certain
policy along. Stuff gets dirty, stuff gets muddy. So I
(13:09):
it's probably learned a lot from SDS and stuff from this. Yeah,
exactly right. That maybe my answer is too longer, but this,
I think is is a pretty clear answer to why
they didn't just say, oh, it's a kid who is
maybe UM in a Korean studies class or a Korean
(13:30):
history class, because you know, if anything, oddly enough, as
counterintuitive as that may sound, seeing that UM education history,
may have just exacerbated the concern rather than reduced it.
They're just podcasters to talk about this stuff on a
regular basis. Yeah, but the impetus for even looking into
(13:54):
the traffic was were those off book emails that were
very you know that you could maybe even interpret they
were so banal and kind of like they were making
efforts to like be as like you know, vanilla as possible.
Then maybe that looks suspicious in not of itself, like
is there some sort of code being used here because
there's so little actual information being exchanged, right, right, And
(14:17):
that was that's a good point. Well, because oddly enough,
being vague like that and just checking in with your
loved one. It accomplished the opposite of what you probably
wanted to do here, Jenkie, and so glad that you
all are okay, and I'm very happy that this story
(14:37):
had a funny Endina. I also want to give a
shout out to anybody who said add that to your profile.
That's kind of a weird joke. Not joke, it's it's
kind of like if you ask people who work in
a trauma center or who work in a very busy
e er, you asked them, uh, something funny, like what
(14:58):
something funny that happens that you're job, and you realize
very quickly they have a different sense of humor based
on their experiences. The stuff they find funny is probably
not what the audience of America's Home Funniest Home Videos
would find hilarious. And the same thing can happen in
the sphere of intelligence. But you again, you always have
to assume that what you're saying is, or what you're writing,
(15:20):
or what you're communicating or what you're looking at is
somehow observable to someone else that you may not always
be able to observe on your end. Uh And maybe
that can be spooky, but it's just sort of a
better safe than sorry thing. Um. You know, people can
also get get hacked into for absolutely no reasons. Sometimes
(15:41):
it's just like a numbers game. We'll see what we
can get, right. Sometimes, uh, there might be ransomware. But
to be targeted by to be targeted for surveillance, passive
or whatever, surveillance by an intelligence agency. Um that you
usually have to hit more than once. Switch, usually have
to take more than one box. And it's not necessarily sinister.
(16:06):
It's not necessarily people being out to get you. It's
kind of like when you were a kid walking around
your neighborhood and your neighbor heard something and they just
walked out to get a look at you, you know
what I mean. Doesn't mean they're gonna rest, but it's
it's still it's like a yellow light. How about that.
It's a yellow card. It doesn't take you out of
(16:26):
the game. Like we were talking about what just happened
at my house, like just right before we started rolling,
because that just happened. That's just how you heard it. Yeah,
oh no, no, it was my neighbor or I guess
my neighbor's father was just standing at the end of
the driveway when I walked out with the dogs and
he was just standing there at the end of the
driveway and I was like, just game one of those
(16:48):
little head nods, like I don't know you, okay, Hi,
Well what are you doing right here? Just staring at
my house. It was just it was just somebody's father
being sweet. But in my mind, I was like, what
you look at me? What you want with me? But
there's I don't want to ted talk this or monopolize us.
But uh, something similar, Jankie. You might be uh, not
(17:12):
quite to your level, but something similar just happened to
me unexpectedly before I got back into the States. Uh.
So you you never know. But your location and the
location of the person you're communicating with are one of
the one of the biggest things. You can talk all
the trash you want about Tehran, for instance, but if
(17:32):
you are talking that trash in an email to someone
in Tehran or someone in the stands, then they're gonna
pay a little more attention to that. So glad everybody
was safe. Um, it sounds like you have a lot
of a lot of adventures. So Steve's out there if
you're listening, uh, and if you feel like you can
contact us securely if you're okay with it. I love
(17:54):
to hear your side of these war stories. What do
you guys think about that? We want to hear from
some surveillors. Yeah, sure, do you drive a silver GMC
SUV with California plates? Call us? We want to know
your story. And with that, we'll take a quick pause
and then be back with some more messages from you.
(18:21):
And we have returned with something interesting that I anticipate
we'll we'll create a cool conversation with us. And to
be clear about my ulterior motive, I'm sharing this story
from Al because I I think it can help inform
a future episode. So here we go. Hello, my friends,
(18:42):
you can call me Al. I guess we can do
a bodyguard thing too. So Al says, I've listened to
your show for a while now, and someone I've heard
mentioned several times on stuff they don't want you to know,
as well as some sister shows, is Emmanuel sweden Board.
It catches my attention every time time because I was
raised in a church called the General Church of the
(19:03):
New Jerusalem, a religion also known as sweden Borgianism. I
can't say I completely subscribe to its beliefs, but it
takes its ideas from the works of Emmanuel sweden Board,
and these books are seen as the second coming of
God through sweden Borg. It's a fairly small religion, says Al,
but it's always been fascinating to me the level of
(19:25):
devotion this group of people find in one man's writings.
I myself have read at least parts of his books,
and they actually have some extremely interesting ideas in them.
I went to an extremely small private school based on
this religion, and sweden Borg's books were the basis of
our religion classes, and they were brought into almost every
(19:47):
other class we had as well. I don't mean that
this on the religion or your brief mentions of sweden Borg,
thanks Hal, but the difference between this religion, which holds
them to be a a revered prophet, and outside people
who see him as just another generic psychic is quite
interesting to me. I'm not sure exactly what the point
(20:08):
of this email was, but I thought I could offer
some perspective on the guy as someone who grew up
in a religion centered around him. I also wonder what
other obscure religions there are that have similar origins to
this one uh and then al end saying PS. One
of my favorite books by sweden Borg is called Earth's
in the Universe, also known by some other long name
(20:32):
I can't remember, but it's a fascinating read and talks
about spirits and aliens on other planets in our Solar system,
as well as other unknown planets. His writing takes a
bit to get used to and can be confusing, but
even removed from the religious context, I still suggest giving
it a look, it can be quite entertaining. Al So,
(20:52):
al thank you. I'm considering this an official uh an
official recommendation for the stuff they Don't Want You to
Know book club, which I think could be a lot
of fun. Just glancing through the bibliography, they all sound fascinating. Yeah.
Really the stood out to me because Swedenborg reminds me
in some ways of other um other prophetic figures like
(21:16):
Edgar Casey, who I think we may have done a
YouTube episode on or something many many years ago, but
I can't remember. It might just be something we all
talked about for a while, but it brings us to
kind of UM, I don't know. It feels like a
good set up for the origins of all religions that
(21:38):
are sometimes considered uh fringy maybe or not as well
known as like the Abramaic religions, or as Hinduism and
Buddhism and all the other all the other big ones.
For some people, Swedenborg was really controversial. He he's active
(22:00):
from the lates well, he's born in the late sixteen hundreds,
he's active into well into the late seventeen hundreds. He
lived to be eighty four and right now he's best
known for a book he published in seventeen fifty eight
called Heaven and Hell. You call him kind of a
(22:20):
renaissance man these days, theologian, scientists, philosopher, and yes mystic.
So for a lot of our more skeptical listeners, just
calling someone a mystic might seem like it already damages
their credibility. But his story is really interesting to me,
and it makes him want us to look at more
examples of kind of self proclaimed profits that were maybe
(22:45):
non canonical, because you know, the most people are familiar
with the profits that are listed in older established religions, right,
but there there is a proliferation of people who are
non canonical whole profits like they and their followers consider
them Christian adjacent profits or even um, you know, the
(23:08):
profits of another religion that the status quo just thinks
of his regular people. Or maybe maybe heretics. Um. This
guy thought he was divinely inspired. He had He didn't
really get started on this until he was fifty three
years old in seventeen forty one. And he so he
(23:30):
didn't like um. He didn't spend his whole life being uh,
you know, like a charismatic thinker and preacher. He started
to have these crazy dreams and visions when he was
in his fifties, especially one Easter weekend in seventeen forty four,
and he believed, and I have no reason to question
(23:52):
this belief. I don't think he was after the money.
He believed that the biblical Jesus Christ had divinely appointed
him to reform Christianity the whole thing. And he had
these powers again from his statements that he could visit
heaven and Hell, he could speak with angels, and he
would Well here's the thing. He predicted the end of
(24:16):
the world. I think the three of us saw saw
that maybe in the cards. Yeah okay, okay, yeah yeah
in two November. No, no, no, I'm just joking. I
don't know any Jesus you had me going there, nothing
like an end of the world prophecy to to get you,
(24:39):
to get you a little stressed out. Yeah, I'm being
you know what, I'm maybe I'm editorializing a little bit
because he actually said if I if I understand this correctly,
He actually said the last judgment had already occurred in
seventeen seventy seven, but he went ahead and published a
(25:00):
other work in seventeen fifty eight concerning the New Jerusalem
and it's heavenly doctrine. And right now there is a
little bit of debate over whether all of his works
are divinely inspired or whether just a few are. But
as you pointed out, al we will call you al Uh,
this did inspire a movement that continues today. The New
(25:25):
Church is actually a group term. There are several different
historically related denominations of Sweden Organism and I don't know,
so I'm on this is where my American comes out, right.
I believe in religious plurality. I think if you're not
(25:47):
hurting anyone, then you should be able to believe what
you like. But Sweden Organism has some criticisms, and they're
they're historic, they date back to the seventeen hundreds. But
just just with all this now, all this this information
we have, now, I've got to ask you guys, uh,
(26:08):
matt no, no, matt um, what do you think about
the idea of someone being divinely inspired and accruing followers
in this regard? Are we all very skeptical about it?
Or where where do we stand on the spectrum here?
It's super hard to disprove. How do you disprove if
(26:29):
someone is actually being communicated with by some other entity?
I don't know how to do it. You can question
that person, You could give him a truth serum, even
you can hook him up to a polygraph, and if
the person truly believes it, then you're going to get
the same results, right, even if it's not true. It's
(26:49):
it's very odd. Yeah, I hear you. Man, Like, the
the idea here is that I don't know. One of fairness,
one of letting other people do is they will. But
I think it only really becomes dangerous when that leader,
whoever they are, is directing people to act against their
(27:10):
own physical, emotional, or psychological interest. And I feel like
that's a very easy line to draw because there are numerous,
numerous alternative we would call them religions where people are
just fine. It gives them the spiritual solace they need,
They're not hurting themselves or anybody else. I feel like
(27:31):
with that in mind, we can totally say let's go
for it. But I also think I want to get
in contact with Al. I'm actually gonna do that later.
Also act surprised, uh unless Swedenborg predicted it. UH want
to get some more understanding of the idea that he
had spiritual or psychic powers. This was much more common
(27:56):
actually back in the day than it was in later centuries.
Like there was this proliferation of people who felt dividely
inspired where they made predictions or they claimed to be
clear avoyance. And ever since that time there have also
been people who have said, um, that it's bunk, which,
to be clear, we're not. We're not doing yet. But
would this would you guys be interested in exploring these
(28:19):
uh kind of lesser known spiritual leaders, Yes, a million percent.
I mean this guy, you know this list of works.
The names are just in and of themselves, fascinating. Doctrine
of the Lord, Doctrine of the sacred scripture, you know,
apocalypse reveal, divine providence, um, interaction of the soul in
the body. Like there's just so much to unpack here.
(28:40):
And uh, yeah, I think you know, even like something
like um behind faith, you know, the like more modern profits.
I think there is something for an episode and that
kind of stuff. Absolutely, it's weird. It's weird to think
that there are probably just as many people today, if
not a more, who feel this. I've been just to
(29:02):
your point of like it. It was more common back
in the day for people to be definally definely inspired
or field definely inspired. I think now we just label
it as some kind of mental health crisis or issue
rather than what we would consider someone who truly felt
divinely inspired, right or was hearing voices of another from
a higher power. Yeah, and part of that is, you know,
(29:24):
the spread of mass media and ubiquitous communication. Sweden words
so interesting because what you're describing that that is something
he experienced as well. A lot of his peers thought, wow,
this guy has lost it, right, they say, no longer
mentally fit. Uh. The church of the time actively opposed him,
(29:47):
and like you pointed out, al a lot of people
didn't get his writing because it was it's pretty if
you've read it, if you've read some of it. I
haven't read all of it, obviously, but if you've read
some of it, then you'll see that it's very uh,
very involved, it's very articulate, it can be very advanced,
and he is actually responsible for inspiring a lot of things,
(30:12):
a lot of movements that would later that would be
much more recognizable to the average person to date, Like
you can see claims that he sort of paved the
way for the spiritualism movement. Uh. He also had several
several stories that people went back and forth on when
he was alive that were um anecdotes about his psychic abilities.
(30:36):
I think the most famous one was in the seventeen
fifty nine he claimed that he saw a huge fire
in Stockholm, Sweden, while he himself was three hundred miles away,
that he was instantly aware of it. And you know,
obviously this was before Twitter, so he wasn't just reading
retweets uh, or they were divine retweets. I'm not sure
(30:57):
where we land with that, but with this again, he
reminds me of Edgar Casey. Uh. He also has a
whether or not, you believe it. He has very developed
um understanding what he sees is the afterlife, the nature,
reality and heaven in hell he believes in. Uh. He
(31:18):
believes in both of those things, like Christianity is very
much the base. Um. So what I want to talk
about here is I want to like really explore the
idea that he may have had strange powers or that
people believe he did, and some people believe even now.
So we're going to keep this one short and before
(31:39):
we go to our next commercial break, just say, al
expect us to quote to quote anonymous. We won't be anonymous.
You'll know it's us. Uh. And then we also would
also love to hear from all of our fellow conspiracy realists,
other folks that you think maybe examples of a sweden
Borg like figure in the world or throughout history. Right,
(32:02):
so the Anger Casies, the sweden Borgs, um, maybe even
the Leads Scalmand, the Coral Castle guy, that might be
another one. But we looked at that there's a whole
period of history that is often ignored in the mainstream
and let's dive into it and let's see what we
can find if we separate the fact from the fiction
and find some clarity in the controversy. So let us
(32:26):
know one sdd w y t K hit us up
conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com. Read every email
we get, but don't do it yet because we're pausing.
Word from our sponsor and we'll be back with more
stories from you. All right, We're back, guys. Uh. We're
(32:49):
gonna call this segment bunk or skunk as in weed.
It's skunk weed good or bad? Is I think it's good?
It's bad? I always thought it had just met it
was really really strongly smelling. That's that's probably what it is.
It's just it's about the smell. So it could it
(33:10):
could be bad, it could be good. I think it
depends on Yeah, well either way, it rhymes. So we're
going to decide if this next idea, this thought experiment
is bunk or skunk. This is silly, Okay. This is
a message we received from the Baron upon Eaton. Uh.
And this is what the baron said, Good afternoon everyone.
(33:32):
This is the Baron upon Eaton. I keep calling that.
He just says Baron Eaton. This is Baron Eaton. Emailing
this time because it might be a ramble and Honestly,
a grand unified conspiracy theory needs to be woven by
the word, not by speech. After listening to the episode
about the rainwater becoming dangerous, remember we talked about that
the forever chemicals in the rainwater. It made me think
(33:55):
of what this sounded like in my memory banks Venus. Okay,
we're gonna keep going with you, Baron. Then the Eldrich
horror showed up and poked my squishy human brain. What
if the Bible itself wasn't about the creation of Earth,
but instead the terraforming of Earth by the ancient aliens,
(34:17):
which eventually became us. What if we can't find the
missing link because the link never existed we had to
escape Venus to terraform Earth, much like how we look
to terraform Mars after messing up the Earth to this point, Guys,
full stop that thought, I've never had it before. That's intense.
(34:40):
I've never had the thought that Venus specifically was the
planet from which from whence humanity may have come, or
or intelligent life may have come. I like it. Yeah,
it's been there. People have thought about this in the past.
It's actually part of it is due to the proximity
of Venus and Mars to Earth, right, Uh, and you
(35:03):
know you're familiar with the Mars stuff. The idea that, uh,
is human life now or what is Earth life? Came
from Mars. But see, that makes way more sense to me.
The Mars thing makes sense to me because of how
similar it is to to planet Earth when it when
it comes to the rocky like super rocky formation um
(35:26):
temperature difference isn't that isn't as nuts um. It seems
as though there was at least water on Mars at
some point. Venus just feels like such a different story. Anyway,
we're gonna get into that. Let's continue with what Baron says.
Parents says, what if our ancestors knew we would do
this again and left the Bible as a record on
(35:48):
how they terraformed Earth but had to cloak it in
religion after everything sort of fell apart. One can only
imagine what would happen on Mars if the technology faded
after the terraforming was completed. It's really interesting idea too.
The only reason I really tied all this together was
the ancient Greek story of the humans who traveled into
space and fought alongside the King of the Moon to
(36:11):
fight the King of Venus. So like they teamed up
with the King of the Moon to fight the King
of Venus, Baron said. Barren says, a true story. Satire
for sure. But what if then we throw in the
tails of sentience sky whales in Venus atmosphere, because of
course they would exist. This opens the door for the
dolphin and Luminatio, or overlords of this world, who keep
(36:32):
an eye out on us for their masters, the Reptilians,
who of course reside inside the Hall of Moon. And
that is how an Idol Monday ruined my life and
opened my mind up to terrible space horrors that should
not be recognized. Baron, I got something. I got something
for you. I got something for you guys to hear. Okay,
(36:53):
first off, awesome letter, Thank you for ready. I actually
prefer the emails because you know, you can get links
with could go back and you do all this neat
stuff with him. But this this is something you'm t
you how to see this? Okay. There are some people
who are interested in something related to what you're thinking about, Baron,
(37:17):
and the identity of these people may surprise you. It
wasn't too long ago, back in when NASA themselves came
out with a climate model that said Venus may have
been a habitable planet for Earth like life, um for
up to two billion years of its initial history. We're
(37:39):
talking liquid ocean, habitable surface temperature, all the good stuff,
all the works. Uh. Still, that's that's basically a model.
And one of the simply put this is oversimplifying it.
One of the concerns, or one of the questions about
that model for a lot of people is whether some
(38:01):
kind of ecological disaster or an increation of greenhouse gases
led to what we know as Venus today, which is
very much not a fun happy place for humans. Yeah,
because the Venus in the atmosphere, it is going through
a runaway greenhouse effect. That's one of the primary reason
why people think that. Right, So if you check out
(38:23):
more information from NASA, you you learned that. I mean,
this is stuff that we learned a long time ago,
probably in our elementary schools. But Venus is known as
Earth's twinters, referred to as Earth's twin. It doesn't mean
they're exactly identical, but the density of both of both
planets and the size of both planets is relatively similar, right,
(38:44):
And it's that atmosphere thing that for a long time
just made people think, oh that thing is I mean,
nothing can live on that thing. It's it's got this
super thick atmosphere toxic. Yeah, yeah, carbon dioxide though is
one of the and the w but also like clouds
of sulfuric acid. Yeah, that's that's generally no, no no, no,
(39:07):
this is particularly screaming you know, human habitability, right, Yeah,
it's all, but it is weird to think that it's
the hottest planet in our solar system, especially when Mercury
is so much closer to the Sun. This is so
hot right now really quickly. I just I just just googling,
(39:32):
just trying to get the composition of the atmosphere, and
it's found this article on the Conversation. Just gonna read
the headline. We can talk about it or move on.
But I think it's a valid addition. Ancient Earth had
a thick, toxic atmosphere like Venus until it cooled off
and became livable. Because even those climate models that you
were referencing that you are talking about, they don't know
(39:54):
exactly Okay, if there were if there were some kind
of liquid water endly environment in Venus other atmospheric aspects aside. Uh,
people don't know right now what would have changed and
created that positive feedback loop of an increasingly increative, of
a word, more and more hostile environment. And again that's
(40:17):
very that's very earth centric, if not anthrocentric, for everybody,
because there there may be some kind of form of
life on Venus right now, and they think Earth is
a garbage neighborhood. It's all about perspective. But yeah, they
just have to withstand nine degree surface temperatures. It's fine, oh,
(40:38):
which is hot enough to melt lead, by the way,
and uh, what was the other thing is the oh
the air pressure. It's crazy. Air pressure currently on Venus
because of the situation above the surface, is about nine
times that of Earth, which really got my mind going,
you guys, because I'm imagining the surface PRESSU sure would
(41:00):
have been relatively the same, right what air pressure would
have changed, but it still would have been super heavy there.
And I imagined what if something lived in that pressure
and then it it decided to exit that planet and
go somewhere else, would it need to recreate that pressure
in order to survive? Does that make sense? With with humans,
(41:23):
we have to if we're going to travel down into
the ocean, we have to create technology that will protect
our fragile meat bodies from the pressures involved. Right yeah,
that's why, right, like creatures would a sense of like Logically,
it follows that they would need special equipment to survive
(41:45):
without those uh, those enormous pressures, those pounds for square
hps hi or whatever. But that's I do want to
say in defense of that poor blob fish whose picture
gets taken all the time on the surface world, that
poor guy looks a lot better when he's in his
natural environment. He caught him on a bad Yeah, well,
(42:07):
well in that natural environment, that's what I want to
talk about. So the equivalent of that ninety times air
pressure of Earth is too roughly one point six kilometers
or five thousand, two eight feet below the ocean right now.
This this section of the ocean is called the midnight
(42:29):
zone or the bathopelagic zone, maybe that's how you say it. Um,
it's between three thousand feet and feet, so it's a
it's a nice little zone beneath the ocean where these
pressures exist. The equivalent pressures of the surface of Venus,
my thought was, you, guys, what if they observed Earth
(42:50):
and noticed that the pressures they would need to live
in comfortably do exist on Earth. It's just you have
to go under the ocean to find them and live
amongst those pressures. And then they went down that far
and built structures to continue their civilization. And those suckers
(43:11):
are the ones we keep seeing in the skies. Boom.
We figured it all out, guys, asked the whole time.
We got them folks. Yeah, especially because Congress just put
out a very uh, very tantalizing statements regarding U A
p Um. I. You know, Matt, I feel like we're
(43:33):
almost there. I think we're there. There's two percent. Might
just be really important for us to us to to
think through because one of the big questions is why
would there not have been more communication? Did something happen
to those life forms or entities? Did um the timeline
(43:53):
aspect of real life events being transformed over time in
to religion, to folklore to myth right, which are all religion, folklore,
and myth are very closely related. I don't want to
ruffle any feathers, you know what I mean, But they
are psychologically, they're very closely related and sociologically. So it
(44:16):
is true we're helping build this case here. It is
true that there are a lot of uh, real world
inspirations for things that later become folklore and become myth
and indeed become religions. We would just need we would
need to really think through the timeline because if we're
talking about billions of years, right, then we're also then
(44:43):
challenging some current assumptions about human beings because human beings
had like what was it, uh, the ones that look
like you if you're human and listening now. They came
out of the African continent as we call it today
about three hundred thousand years ago, but they didn't start
exhibiting what we would call modern behavior, behavioral modernity, cognitive
(45:08):
traits that we associate with modern humans didn't get that
until uh, like almost a hundred and fifty thousand years later.
So that would mean that or more than three hundred
thousand years, there had to be some kind of knowledge
of this thing that somehow got carried through a massive
(45:28):
sea change maybe poor choice of words here, but a
massive sea change in human cognition. And I don't know,
that's tough, that's tough to get your head around, you
know it is. I mean, the time scales gere r
are there are the big question or the big thing
for me, because if there was an advanced civilization on
Venus at some point, how could we possibly have observed
(45:49):
it at this point given the missions that we've sent
to Venus, how close we've been to Venus, even if
we've taken high high resolution pictures of the surface of
Venus and mapped the full thing, how would you be
able to detect uh technological structures advanced structures on the
surface of that planet given that time scale, Because as
we know, nature breaks stuff down really quickly, right, so
(46:13):
you we'ld never be able to observe it. At least
in all probability, we would never be able to observe
it unless it was some massive structure that encompassed a
huge area and for some reason it didn't break down
amongst all the sulfuric acid. That's just like hanging out
with it at all times on the surface. The other
question I have is related to something you already state
(46:35):
had been that greenhouse effect, like how long really, how
long has it been going and what what caused it?
There's no way for us to know that without modeling it.
As you said, we can make a model of Venus
current state and try and run it back right and
just understand will and again using probability and what we
(46:56):
see happening now this is this is likely what happened,
and we can build those out. But there's many different possibilities.
I don't know. It's just really opened my mind up.
Considering there are three major missions heading to Venus in
the short term twenty seven there's gonna be a mission
called Veritas through NASA. In the late twenty twenties, there's
(47:21):
gonna be one called Da Vinci, and there's another one
titled e s a Venus Express. That one just happened,
and that one, uh was, like I think when it concluded,
But then there's another one happening. So there's a lot
of looking at Venus happening right now. Does it make
(47:41):
you wonder why guys Baron Eaton knows why he seems
to know something that we don't know where they don't
want us to know. I don't know, like where your
head's at, Baron, Yeah, I would want to check out
Venus as soon as possible. And it's it's part of
the natural sort of evolution of human thought. Right, how
(48:04):
do you learn more about the world around you? Not
for nothing is Venus called sort of the sister one
of the sister planets right of Earth, because, like you described, Matt,
outside of some very obvious, very dangerous differences, Venus does
have a lot in common with planet Earth. And you know,
(48:25):
ultimately the goal of Earth, life on Earth is and
always has been to expand. Right. We talked about this earlier,
to propagate, to make more of itself. So maybe, uh,
maybe sooner than we think, we'll get some of those answers.
Or maybe somebody will land on Venus, which has a
kind of a younger surface than uh than Earth. Maybe
(48:46):
they'll land on Venus, and maybe they'll see something that
rocks the very foundation of life as we know it.
But I saw you got an idea, Matt. Okay, alright,
I'm not high. I don't do weet. Uh, I saw
(49:06):
it marijuana, And then we did work. That's a really
fun game. I only do not an arc. Just don't
do we Okay, imagine that, just to imagine you are
one of these disadvanced civilization on Venus. You have to
(49:29):
escape your planet because you're really mess things up. Royally,
you see Earth, you figure out you know that you
can you can live up in that ocean part where
the pressure is right, or with technology you have maybe
even on the surface. You just have to spend a
lot of your resources building structures and systems that can
sustain your life. What if eventually they figure out a way,
(49:52):
after terraforming the planet just a little bit or enough,
they figure out a way to rid themselves of that
technology necessary to sustain their life so that they can
just live on the planet as you know fauna to
be creatures of this planet. But what if it's not humanity.
What if we're focusing on the wrong type of creature.
(50:15):
What if it's let's say, a sea creature. Uh so
bid I like one of my dreams that they're one
of my dreams life like a very advanced funus. But yeah,
I'm with you on sea creatures man amazing like like
a whale or yeah maybe or even more different some
(50:36):
of those super speaky deep deep deep sea ones and octopus. Yeah,
they're more deep sea creatures being discovered. Uh, let's just
do it. Let's just like, let's throw the budget into
getting a submarine and and explore explore the attic depths.
Short of that, they did just add Planet Earth o
G Planet Earth back to Netflix UM And one of
(50:59):
my favorite of those and just about any nature documentary
is the Deep Oceans episode of Planet Earth UM with
like the Vampire Squid, and I mean, it's just remarkable.
It really is like like an alien planet down there.
Remember when we got the box set exactly. I have
that thing playing that specific episode playing in the background
(51:20):
so often when I'm I'm researching, especially when I'm really
paranoid and I'm thinking, I don't want to watch Netflix.
I don't want to know it where I'm at, you know,
I don't want him knowing, Like how much I like
Iron Chef, which actually the original Lion Chef is on
It's free. Yeah, I need you guys to watch the
rehearsal asap. Look, seriously, I've seen the first feel fabulous.
(51:45):
Really do it. I've only seen the first episode that
I can't wait to watch more. It's wonderful. I'll do it.
It's best about it the better. Don't just seriously, don't
spoil anything, dude, don't I know you like what you like?
Still do it? All right? You you you jokers haven't
seen Nope yet, have you. I loved it. I loved
(52:07):
every minute of it, and and it's a movie that
the more I talk about with friends and read about,
the more I like it more and more and more,
and the more I want to see it again. Ben
I will only say this to you about Nathan. I'm
just gonna out there life life simulator, life simulator. That's
all I'm gonna say. For rehearsal or for Nope, well
(52:29):
microcosm both, it doesn't kind of apply to both. Nope. Yes,
I think it's his best movie. I think it's his
best movie. And it was getting a little bit lukewarm reviews,
but I think a lot of people didn't quite get it,
and I certainly didn't immediately. But it rewards, uh, you know,
further thought and um analysis, and it deals with a
lot of themes that we talked about on this show regularly.
(52:52):
I can't wait for you to see a Benz and
all three of us can talk about it together. Well,
I have I know everything that happens. And Nope, I
already read the spoilers. Just assume that I'm gonna read
the spoilers unless you specifically ask me not to man,
that's just how it is. Uh so I will it
almost is. You almost can't spoil it. You almost can't
(53:13):
spoil it for yourself. It's an experiential thing. With that movie,
I would argue you can have you can spoil the beats,
but when you really see it and then like, let's
take it all into your noggin, it's a different experience.
And speaking of experiences, if you would like to take
a page from the book of jen Kie, a page
from they call him Al, a page from our new
(53:34):
favorite Baron, and experience being on this show with us, well,
we would love to have you, as they say in
the American South, come on down, uh be a part
of the show. We cannot wait to welcome you and
share your stories with your fellow conspiracy realists. We try
to make it easy. All you have to do is
find us online, which is way easier than landing on venus.
(53:57):
The internet is one place you can find us where
we are conspiracy stuff on Twitter, YouTube, and uh the
other one uh Facebook or we have a Facebook group
called here where it gets crazy and then we are
conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. Um. If you don't want
to do any of those internety things. You can do
a slightly less internetything and give us a telephone call.
That's right. It's a story older than my teeth, but
(54:19):
as old as my tongue. Call one eight three std
w y stuff. Sorry, just freaking love that. I want
to use that all the time. Okay, we have a
phone number. It is one eight three three st d
w y t K. When you call in, it is
a voicemail system. Give us a cool name, not your
real name, just for safety, and then say whatever you want.
(54:41):
You've got three minutes. Please let us know whether or
not you give us permission to use your name and
voice on one of these listener mail episodes. If you
got more to say than can fit in that three minutes,
why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. M
(55:16):
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