February 24, 2024 • 51 mins
In today's episode, the crew is joined by Stephen Willeford. The man know nfor stopping the church shooter in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Willeford recounts the day when the event happened, his relationship with the Gun Owners of America, and training tips to always stay prepared.
Order Stephen Willeford's book A Town Called Sutherland Springs: Faith and Herosim through Tragedy at his website, thebarefootdefender.com.
Thanks, as always, to Captain Paul Tyre for joining the show. If you’re interested in going fishing with Paul, visit lakeseminolefishingguides.com or find them on Facebook @LakeSeminoleFishingGuides.
Check out our archive of podcasts here: https://ihr.fm/36mzYjf.
Follow the Talon Training Group and Range on Facebook @TalonRange.
Listen live to the Talon Outdoors Show from 10-11 a.m. ET on 100.7 WFLA!
WFLA Tallahassee Live stream: https://ihr.fm/3huZWYe
Follow WFLA Tallahassee on Twitter @WFLAFM and like us on Facebook at @wflafm.
Order Stephen Willeford's book A Town Called Sutherland Springs: Faith and Herosim through Tragedy at his website, thebarefootdefender.com.
Thanks, as always, to Captain Paul Tyre for joining the show. If you’re interested in going fishing with Paul, visit lakeseminolefishingguides.com or find them on Facebook @LakeSeminoleFishingGuides.
Check out our archive of podcasts here: https://ihr.fm/36mzYjf.
Follow the Talon Training Group and Range on Facebook @TalonRange.
Listen live to the Talon Outdoors Show from 10-11 a.m. ET on 100.7 WFLA!
WFLA Tallahassee Live stream: https://ihr.fm/3huZWYe
Follow WFLA Tallahassee on Twitter @WFLAFM and like us on Facebook at @wflafm.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
And welcome to the Town Outdoor showon Charlie and I grant from Fred Fred
say something. I'm Fred, Let'sjust say something. Oh something, there
you go, all right, Fall'sover there, and we've got some of
the folks in the studio today,so I want to roll right into this
because this is an auspicious occasion forus. We have the honor having somebody
in the studio. They want toread you an excerpt from something on the
(00:25):
Internet, from that well not themost reliable sources Wikipedia, and people can
go in there and change that.I could go in there and change something
on Wikipedia right now apparently, andsomebody would big Brother would proof read it
and disapprove it. I'm sure.But here's an article about the Sutherland Springs
church shooting it. I remember thechurch shooting out in Texas. Everybody knows
(00:46):
that. Everybody in our world knowsthis. But on November fifth, twenty
seventeen, at the first Baptist Churchin Southerland Springs, Texas, a local
man who I will not say hisname because we don't do that here shot
and killed twenty six people in woundedto twenty two others. And that bastard
was shot and wounded by another localresident and then killed himself after a car
(01:07):
chase. It's the deadlist mass shootingin Texas history, and the dead list
in an American place of worship,surpassing at Charleston Church shooting of twenty fifteen.
That local residence is key to endingthat that situation. And JD,
who do we have in the studiotoday? We have the local resident.
He has a name. His nameis Stephen Wiliford, and he is in
(01:30):
the studio today and we're extremely honoredto have him here today. And he's
sitting next to me. I'm sittingnext to the good guy with the gun.
We're not often honored to have aguest. If you look around you
at the guests that we normally have, it's well, Paul, We've always
honored to have Paul. But youknow, we're all our audience knows Fred
and they so yeah, it's it'sit's you know, if there is a
(01:57):
let's just call it a posture ofa superhero sheep dog. Uh. There
you go when this when this occurred. So you're watching the video, he's
the guy with the black cowboy haton the end of the table. There
he's showing off his text. Wewe spent our career in law enforcement thinking
is that a plan? Yeah?Friends over there trying to get you down
(02:20):
to his level. Friend's bumping.I'm trying to I'm trying to be tall,
but I have to keep pulling mymic down. I'm like, that's
the switch outline. I'm used toit. Oh boy, I'm sorry you
said this was unplanned, so ideous. There you go? Is that better?
(02:43):
Hey? Look at there, sothat the now taller textan with the
cowboy hat. There you go.I sat there and kept going down,
and I kept pulling the mic down. It's like, I was, well,
look at the camera over there.Now I can see the screen,
and now you actually look taller thanFred. That's good. Look a little
toll on the radio. I was, I have to pull the hat off
(03:04):
because well, every picture I seeyou on internet's got that black hat on,
so now they won't recognize you.Well, yeah, I know,
I know it went. I cankind of put anyway. That's all irrelevant.
I'm sure you've been on podcasts andradio shows and TV shows and everything
before, so you just had youIt's tough it out. The best thing
you do this is our primitive attemptto do that here in our studio.
(03:29):
We're cheap. We built the tablesand and did everything in here and hung
crap on the walls just to makeit look look like it was quite as
I professional. But don't stomp yourfeet too hard. It might fall apart.
So you're traveling around and you're withour represented from Gun Owners of America
today, and you brought a book, So why don't you just tell us
(03:53):
about Let's start with your book.Well, so the book is about more
than just the church shooting. Thebook is about the most precious little community
that you would ever want to bepart of on for generation in Southerland Springs,
Texas. The total population of SutherlandSprings is under six hundred people.
(04:16):
Wow, So we're Mayberry, USA, you know, with b and everybody
else knows everybody, and Sutherland Springsis just that. A lot of city
folks always say I never want tolive in a small community like that because
they got their nose in your business. And my response to that is,
(04:39):
if you don't have bad business,it's not a bad place to be.
It's not a problem. Because whenI was growing up, my great grandfather
used to take me around and deliverfood baskets to people that the community knew
were struggling. And he instilled thatsense of community and me and that very
(05:02):
church. He used to pick meup when I was five or six years
old, and I would grab ontothe rope and he'd pull me up and
down to ring the bell to bringpeople to services. Wow, that's my
community. That's what this country usedto be. And if we don't find
some sense of that again, weare doomed to fail. Whereabouts in Texas
(05:26):
is Sutherland Springs. It is aboutthirty five miles southeast of San Antonio.
Everybody knows the Doobie Brothers song ChinaGrove a little southeast of San Antonio,
so you have to drive through ChinaGrove from San Antonio to get down to
Sutherland Springs. We're kind of halfwaysbetween Victoria and San Antonio, so you're
(05:51):
sort of close to you, Valdi, right, I'm about three miles from
our three hours from two and ahalf three hours for Texas. Well,
yeah, that's closed for Texas.People don't get on. They fly in
too like Lubbuck and say hey,I'm coming in Texas, can you come
see me? You're nine hours oneway away, so that would be a
(06:17):
hard No. Yeah, we dealwith the same thing in Florida. It's
just shaped different. You know.We gotta go. We got to go
east and then and then south,and you can you can drive for twelve
hours from here and still be inFlorida. Yeah. So my dad was
a truck driver and he drove onionsfrom down in the valley all over to
Georgia and stuff. And he alwaysused to say the sun rose and the
(06:42):
sunset. And I still ain't outof Texas yet. It's a big state.
When we uh, yeah, whenwe've driven through there all the way
across it a couple of times,Yeah, for sure. So the I
just opened. I haven't read yourbook. I just opened it and read
a few excerpts from it. Iwant to have a tough time reading this
(07:02):
thing. There's just gonna pull onsome heartstrings, I'm pretty sure. So
I'm not going to peruse it toomuch right now, because we tend to
get emotional about people's lives, lovedones and dogs on the show. So
we're gonna let's talk more about you. So obviously when this went down,
(07:24):
you had access to an AR fifteen, which is not terribly uncommon in the
state of Texas. Is it notuncommon at all? I built my own
AR fifteen for competition. I builtit with a Spikes Tactical Good Florida Company
Strip Spikes Tactical lower receiver. Iused a rock River varmit or trigger in
(07:46):
it. I used a Wilson Chromelinechrome olly barrel for light, and I
just put it together with what Iwanted and I used to compete shooting and
moving and hidden targets. And Itell people all the time, if they're
standing in a range in one spotshooting at flat targets, they're practicing marksmanship.
(08:07):
And marksmanship. However good that is, it's not going to help you
in a real world situation. Youif you're in a gunfight and you're standing
in one place, you're the target. You just haven't figured it out yet.
We have a different spin on that. And that's uh. If you
if you have a really good stance, you have really bad tactics or what
(08:31):
is that? If you're in afair fair fight, your tactics suck,
Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.So but you in this situation, you
heard what was going on, andI don't I know how much trauma there
can be in and regurgitating facts aftera life or death struggle like this,
(08:52):
but without getting too deep into it. When we come back from the break,
I want to give you an opportunityto sort of outline the logistics usage
of your tools and maybe a littlebit whatever information you're willing to share and
to talk about within you know,without you know, getting too far off
(09:13):
on a tangent on that, becauseI get it. We get it.
There's been so and I'm kind ofbeaten dead airtime now because we've got less
than a minute before we break,only get too I didn't want to point
out that the book is called atown called Sutherland Springs, Faith and Heroism
through Tragedy. And he told mebefore the show that his daughter, you
(09:35):
see his name, and Rachel Howe, Rachel Howe is your daughter, absolutely
and so she helped you write this. And uh, it's we're gonna we're
gonna have a good couple of segmentshere, So y'all stay teamed. Yeah,
yeah, we'll be back here injust a minute. Have you I
(10:00):
been diagnosed with a herniated disc orarthritis in your back or neck? Doctor
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(10:20):
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(10:41):
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So see when we were talking beforethe break about giving you an opportunity
to give us the the skinny onwhat went down, because some of the
(11:01):
listeners are going, yeah, Ivaguely remember that. I remember it was
a big deal, and they heardwhat I read at the beginning of a
segment, but without getting into thenuances of everything, tell us kind of
what went down in your own words. Well, So, November fifth,
twenty seventeen, I was actually goingto stay at home from church that day
(11:22):
because I worked as a maintenance plumberfor a hospital and on Monday morning,
I was going to start my oncall, meaning I had to carry a
pager. Most millennials don't know whata pager is. This is confounded little
box that beeps on you and youget you where your phone can't and I
(11:43):
would have to go to the hospitaland I was gonna be working anywhere from
twenty to thirty extra hours that week, so I decided to stay home,
and my wife decided, since weweren't going to church, that she was
going to go tape and float myyounger daughter's house that was pregnant with my
(12:03):
very first grandbaby, and we werebuilding the home on our own. So
she went over there, and wewere on a timetable. We were trying
to get them out of our houseinto their own house before the baby was
born, So she went over tomy other daughter's house. My older daughter
was staying with us because she wasengaged to be married and she didn't want
(12:28):
to sign another apartment lease should bestuck with when she married her husband,
so she moved back in with us. And that kind of sets the morning
and I'm relaxing in bed with noshoes on, and the older daughter came
in said, Dad, doesn't thatsound like gunfire? Right away? Your
mind tries to make something normal outof abnormal things. And I thought it
(12:52):
sounded like somebody tapping in my window, and I went over and opened the
curtain. She said, no,come in the other room. It's a
loud her in there. And whenI went into the other room, I
realized it was gunfire and I ranfor my safe. That daughter ran outside,
jumped in her Honda Fit to runup the block and see what was
going on. And I called mywife and I said, where are you
(13:16):
at? She said, I'm atRachel's house. I said, stay there,
don't go anywhere. She said,what's going on? I said,
somebody shooting up the Baptist church.She said, don't go over there.
And I hung up on her andI grabbed an AR fifteen out of my
safe. I grabbed a handful ofAMMO, poking it into a magazine as
I ran for the door. Andbefore I reached the door, the other
(13:37):
daughter burst in and said, Dad, there's a guy in black tactical gear
shooting up the church. He hadstarted shooting from the outside through the walls
and the windows of one hundred yearold church. He put them all under
the pews and stuff, and thenhe started shooting through the doors. And
that's when my daughter drove up andsaw him shooting through the doors. She
(13:58):
said, said, he's in blacktactical gear shooting up the church. And
I said, did you call nineone one? She said, I did,
They're aware of it. So asI ran out the door, I
feared more the police that were comingthan I did the shooter himself, because
if you can imagine, they're cominghard and fast to a mass shooting.
(14:20):
And I'm running across the street withthose shoes on and an AR fifteen in
my hand. So the church isacross the street, yes, yes,
it's kind of around the corner.And it's from my front door to the
front door of the church is aboutone hundred yards. And if you see
this much fat running down the road, something serious is going down. I'm
(14:41):
just saying, I don't run,just no excuse. So you running towards
the church with your ar and halfwaysacross, I yelled out, and I
can't explain other than I truly believethat the Holy Spirit was on me and
called out a demon within the church. He had just shot Julie Workman through
(15:05):
the breast and they were hiding undera pew, and then she shot Chris
Workman in the back, instantly paralyzingChris. And he was pointing the pistol
at Chris's face, and Chris said, I just knew I was going to
meet Jesus, and he said,I heard you yell. He said.
(15:26):
The expression on the shooter's face changed, and he dropped his rifle in the
church. He was shooting people witha rifle through the pews and then he'd
walk over point blank range and finishthem with a pistol. He heard me
yell. He dropped his rifle inthe church, and he came out shooting
(15:46):
at me. He had on Classthree body armor and a ballistic bulletproof helmet,
and he started firing at me,and I ran behind a Dodge pickup
truck. There's something about a sixpoint two liter V eight HEMI that was
real comforting at the moment, andI came over the hood. He hit
the truck in front of me.He shattered the windshield of the car behind
(16:07):
me, hit the house behind me. I put one in his left chest,
stopped by the body armor. Iput one in his abdomen, stopped
by the body armor. At thatpoint he ran for his vehicle, which
was sitting in the middle of thestreet, driver's side door open, engine
running, And when he turned tohis side, I was able to put
one high in his side, inbetween the plates, and then I put
(16:30):
one in his legs. He gotinto his vehicle, slammed the door,
and he put two shots through theside window at me, and I saw
the glass open up and falling.I put one where I perceived his had
to be. I couldn't see itfrom the reflection of the glass, but
it broke right underneath the room ofthe helmet, from one side of his
(16:52):
forehead to the other. And thenhe wanted out. He was done.
He accelerated, turned the corner,running as fast as he could. By
the time I got in the middleof the street, he was about one
hundred and fifty yards away and leaving. I put a bullet through the back
windshield that shattered, that went throughthe driver's side seat hit him right at
the left shoulder blade. He toppedthe hill and out of sight. I
(17:15):
ran over to a pickup truck.There was another dodge by the way.
It was parked at the stop sign. I tapped on the window. I
didn't even know the guy, andI tapped on the window and said,
that guy just shot up the Baptistchurch and we have to stop him.
Now. Picture that he just sawthe whole gunfight. He was on nine
to one one talking to dispatch.And I run over and tap on the
(17:40):
window and said, that guy justshot up the Baptist church. Any sane
human being in this world would havejust jammed on the gas and left me
there. But this is Texas.We're not known for sanity. So the
next thing I heard with locks popopen. I climbed up in the cab
of the truck with a long,tall Texan has a long horn skull tattooed
in the middle of his neck andthe horns run up under his ears.
(18:06):
It's a cartoon of Texas. JohnnyLangendorff. I had never met him before
in my life, and I climbedup in the cabin. He took off
chasing. We chased eleven point sixmiles and then the shooter ended it himself.
He tucked the pistol up under hishelmet and pulled the trigger. And
I'm okay with that. Yeah,yeah, that's not really bothered by that.
(18:26):
Wow, well that is that's amazing. And there are so many When
you're talking, I'm listening to thingsthat we've been teaching for years, and
we've been preaching to people for years, and we go into houses of worship
and we we share the concerns andwe use this situation as an example a
lot of times because and in ouractive footer courses that we teach and all
(18:49):
the things, this is one ofthose examples that we that we talk about
but have never heard. I haven'tread your book, didn't know the whole
story. There's so much more toit. And you know, with respect,
my impression of you leading up tothis point was nowhere near as pronounced
(19:12):
as it is now going forward thestory I just heard from you. Kudos
to you, sir, Bless yourheart. I can't imagine you having handled
that situation any better. But Ihave one question. When you yelled,
what did you say? I wasmy question because I want that magic word.
Are you ready? For something deepand philosophical. Sure, I yelled,
(19:36):
Hey, I don't know, butI will tell you. People say,
are you a religious man? No, I'm a man of faith.
I believe God created faith, Mancreated religion. I believe that God spoke
to a demon at that moment.And what I thought I yelled and what
(19:59):
actually came out of my mouth weretwo different things. Because they heard me
in the church, and if youcan imagine, they were hiding under fews
hearing gunshots and they heard me yell, and at that moment, it wouldn't
have taken him two seconds to finishChristian and his mother off. Instead,
he dropped his rifle in the churchand came out shooting at me. The
(20:22):
tone of your voice, I'm surehad something to do with it. And
we talk about command presence and commandvoice and things like that. And I
remember a friend of ours that workedfor me on the road, very soft
spoken person from South Pacific, theposuea who was, yes, very soft
spoken, generally speaking. And Iremember one night when he was chasing somebody
(20:48):
and he bellowed stop, and hesounded like a god on a o and
god off of a volcano, tellingeveryone. And I was like did that
come from? And and it isin fact amazing what you know, the
impression, but without a little bitof maybe divine guidance, you know,
(21:12):
but I wouldn't. I would I'dpay any amount of money for recording of
you in that moment because what yousaid saved lives and turned the situation into
a real fight between someone who's apiece of you know what that's in there
(21:32):
doing what he was doing, versussomeone who had the ability to fight back.
And we also very are very strongproponents here of people carrying firearms in
church and being able to defend themselves, and a lot of people just don't
want to. They don't want toviolate the sanctity of the house of worship
by bringing guns in. And thisis a perfect example of why they in
fact should. Remember when Jesus askedhis apostles, do you have a sword?
(21:57):
They said, they said, wehave these. He said, that's
good. But if you do nothave a sword, so your cloak and
buy one. Yep, absolutely well. Well, and it's it's you know,
we we've kind of discussed this before, and it's it's as a general
rule, with any of these uh, I only might call them people,
(22:18):
any of these creatures that go anddo these bad things at mass shootings where
they're going into situation where you havean unarmed, ununarmed crowd, and they
do these bad things. Just anyopposition sometimes will completely change the change the
day. You know, when theday so right, we're gonna be back
(22:40):
in just a minute. Is yourback killing you from sitting at an uncomfortable
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we're back. So we're gonna changeto tune just a little because of our
variants of our show format and stufflike that. So we're going to come
back to mister Wilford here in justin a few minutes in the third segment
(23:45):
and talk about some other things.But just want to kind of change the
direction just to fudge I do.We're gonna put the book and the and
the links to where we can findit once. I'm sure this is available
through multiple sources. Can you getthis like on Amazon or something? You
(24:07):
can get it on Amazon. Youcan actually, I think you can go
to gun Owners dot O r Gand pick it up. You can go
to link the Barefoot Defender and that'smy website and you can pick up the
book from that. All that isis a link to Amazon. Okay,
So while we're we're here, Imean, this is a you talked about.
(24:33):
We talked about being the sheep dog. Philosophy is big in our world.
We are we we and that camefrom we picked up on that concept
from Lieutenant Colonel Dave Gressman. You'refamiliar with his book. He's a good
friend of mine, yes, andhe he we've we've had lunch with him
at events and and he wrote ablurb for the book by the way,
Oh cool. Yeah, he's anawesome guy. He wouldn't remember us from
(24:56):
Adam, but but we're just someof the massive is that follow him.
But we quote his material in allof our coursework in all of our classes,
and we talk about the physiological psychologicalstress dynamics and the sense of time
manipulation, slow motion, fast motion. We talk about vascular constriction, and
we talk about tunnel vision and auditoryexclusion, all those things that happened to
(25:19):
us. Assume you're familiar with thoseconcepts absolutely, and way more familiar because
everything slowed to a crawl for mewhen it was happening. And basically I
was told that that's when your traininghas kicked in, and that's when he's
a take advantage of that. Well, that's when the mid brain takes over
(25:40):
for the conscious And I've tried,I try to explain that in a real
simple concept to most people, andit's like that caveman that's way down deep
inside your brain is running the showunder that critical stress when you have that
critical incident stress going on. Ifyou haven't trained the caveman or cave woman
what to do in the critical incident, the thinking person that's sitting here talking
(26:04):
on the radio ain't gonna be anywhereto be found under critical incident stretch.
You. So, if you don'ttrain your brain to do anything in by
stretch situation, that does exactly whatyou trained it to do, which is
nothing. Steven, what have youspent your career doing by trade? I'm
a plumber, I have I callmyself a drain surgeon. That's good.
(26:33):
Well, see, I'm not justa plumber. You know, I've spent
more time in school than most graduatesbecause I've got Texas Medgas certifications. I've
got the ASSE sixty ten, whichis a national med gas and national brazing.
I've got backflow prevention, I've gotemergency eyewash, I've got OSHA thirty
(26:57):
ten, I've got you know,my resume goes out. I've spent so
much time in plumbing that people can'tbelieve. And so yeah, well,
listening to the stuff you talked aboutand when you were describing the incident,
You've also spent some time on therange. Obviously a considerable amount of time
(27:18):
on the range, and probably I'mguessing a considerable amount of competitive shooting.
And I was a competitor. Iwas also an instructor. One of my
students went on set women's collegiate nationalrecord with a pistol. Wow. Wow,
Well, obviously you've spent some timebehind that ar You said you shot
competitively, and you built that riflefor competition, and well, I'm not
(27:41):
a big fan of competitive shooting versustactics. I like tactics and training with
tactics. A lot of competitive shootingis jumping out into a doorway and exposing
yourself and doing things, but doneright, you know, and with the
right mindset that the two skills docrossover. I can't shoot competitively because I
(28:02):
can't bring myself to do it fastenough, because I'm afraid to jump out
from behind cover. I'm over there, creeping out behind cover doing things.
But the point is is you spendenough time behind that you obviously could hit
what you aimed at. You talkedabout you had an Eotech. Right,
Yes, so you've got a redDot site, You've got a very fine
tuned rifle, and you obviously knewwhat you were doing with it. We're
(28:22):
going to come back in just aminute and expand on that. And I
want to talk about your relationship withGA because you're wearing a shirt and you're
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(28:44):
runs a great store that carries men's, women's, and children's shoes and a
number of major brands. They knowhow to fit shoes properly and can even
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just north of the fair Grounds.Tell them we said hello, Hey,
it's Charlie and j D from Tallan. Do you have residential or commercial
(29:06):
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(29:27):
or call him at eight five Oseven sixty six thirteen four. All right,
we're back. We're going to spendanother segment with mister Stephen Wilfrid.
I want to go out on themtoo far. I want to say the
hero of the Fairfoot, the fairFairfoot defender. I love that. That's
(29:48):
awesome. Y'all must not have themsteam stickers in South Texas that I that
I experienced up in North Texas.On Yeah, we do have them,
but there's some things adrenaline allows absolutelyuh And people ask me all the time,
really, you didn't take time toput shoes on? I said,
when the gunfire is aimed at someoneyou care about, you take your necessities
(30:11):
with you. You're lucky I hadpants on. Yeah, they would have
been a different name. You wentwith you, You went with what you
had the pants. This defender justdoesn't do it. It's like the barefoot
defender. I will, I will, Yeah, I try to. The
only the only difference between me andmy setup is I tend. I tend
(30:33):
to keep loaded magazines around. Becausewhen you started talking about thumbing some rounds
in the magazine, I was Iwas going on with God. That okay,
that had to be. That's Icall it. Because I was asked
to speak before the United States Senateon Safe Storage Act, and I had
to talk about the fact that Iam against a safe storage Act. But
(31:00):
the reason I had my gun lockedaway is five years earlier, I was
burglarized and the burglar got the onlypistol that was outside the safe, and
I feared for a long time cominghome and the burglar'd be back in my
house, this time with my gun. So I made a habit of unloading
(31:22):
everything and putting away in the safeeverything. And that is ninety seconds I
timed at three different times. Mybest time was ninety one seconds being able
to get into my safe, geta gun out grab a handful of AMMO
and load it running to the door. That's ninety one seconds. I'll never
(31:45):
get back. Who knows who elseI could have saved if I'd been there
faster. And Chris Workman himself saidbecause he was shot. I told Chris,
I said, if I had beenthere fifteen seconds earlier, you'd walk
your daughter down the aisle when shegot married. Do you carry concealed when
(32:07):
you go to church? Absolutely?Well? No, Sometimes at church I
carry wide open and people do.But you carry, oh, absolutely And
people say why do you carry wideopen? First off, I've had a
little bit of pistol retention skills andtraining and stuff, And I figure,
(32:27):
if somebody comes first Baptist Church again, Sutherland Springs are gonna look for me
first. Anyway, probably they're gonnalook for the black cowboy hat. How
many rounds did you get in thatmagazine? I had eight rounds in the
magazine and I hit him six outof eight, had two left. I
hit him one hundred percent of theshots I pulled off. Does anybody else
in the church, or prior tothis occurring, did anybody else carry firearms?
(32:50):
See? I don't believe in coincidences. There were four men that normally
carried at the church, and thepastor being one of them. He was
training in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma,to he was training so he could be
a black powder instructor so that duringsummer camp he could teach the kids black
(33:15):
powder shooting. And he was inOklahoma, he wasn't there. Rick Green
was good friend of mine. Hewas an army veteran from Vietnam, normally
carried. It was the weekend ofthe time change, and he chose to
(33:37):
feed as he knew the pastor wasout of town. He chose to feed
his cattle that day and was goingto make it to church late. He
was not there. We had oneother person that normally carried that their wife
went on a trip in her carand he did not want her traveling without
(33:58):
a gun, so he loaned herhis gun. And the fourth person was
late to church that day also,And so all four people that normally would
have carried. And I truly believethat there is no coincidences. It's like
Satan said, day is the day, and God said, but you forgot
(34:20):
about my servants. Stephen, doyou know why this person showed up there
at that church on this day.Well, he showed up the week before
to the church to the Fall festival, and he got so irate and stuff.
They asked him to leave. It'san ongoing domestic if I remember right,
it was an ongoing domestic in hislife. Well, they asked him
(34:44):
to leave. He said he hatedall Christians with and he was using quite
profanity and stuff in the midst ofa bunch of children. They asked him
to leave. His mother and fatherin law and brother in law went to
that church. His wife's grandmother wentto that church. They the mother and
father in law, brother in lawwere not there at the church that day,
(35:07):
but he killed his wife's grandmother.Jeez. Yeah, So, so
you are here wearing the Gun Ownersof America shirt. I have me a
brand new g A hat on myhead. Thank you, Jed for the
hats. Yeah, and we appreciatethe challenge coins. That's always you know,
I'm a big collector and uh foranybody out there that has any and
(35:31):
uh, so tell us about uhtell us, I want to plug the
g A while you're here too,Jed sitting on a couch. He wouldn't
come out here and do it,so I think he's he's uh, he's
uh cater. He wants to putyou out front today. So well,
Gun Owners of America. Uh sowith my story, uh, I could
work with any one of the biggun advocate advocacy groups. I am life
(35:55):
members to almost all of them.I believe in the shotgun approach. You
know, I sign up to allof them. But when it came down
and the rubber meets the road,gun owners of Them of America are the
only ones that are no compromise whenit comes to our Second Amendment. We
don't believe in any you know,minute infringement upon our right to be able
(36:20):
to the Bill of Rights is theBill of Rights. It's God given rights,
and it restricts the government from infringingupon those rights. And I don't
care what state you're in. Thatcovers. The federal government doesn't cover everything
they'd like to cover. But theBill of Rights, God given rights were
(36:45):
set up to where no states shouldbe able to infringe upon those rights.
Your freedom of speech, which we'redoing right now, your freedom of religion,
and all those bills of the Billof Rights right along with your Second
an Amendment. And what they dois keep the government in check and g
(37:07):
Away is the only ones that reallyfights every gun law out there, and
so they're of the same mindset thatI am. Joe Biden himself after the
shooting, was asked in a prescotteand he was vice president at the time,
he said, I should have neverowned the kind of gun that I
(37:28):
used. He's such a yeah,they don't get it started on that.
So he thinks I should have steppedout of my house with a shotgun,
blasted two shots in the air andthe killer would have just run off.
Well. The president at the timecalled the Constitution a charter of negative liberties,
which just offends me, like thereis no tomorrow of it. Yeah,
(37:51):
so yeah, we don't. Wedon't. Uh. We take offense
at most of the current administration,and we believe the same thing as the
bill right, which is in factrights. And you know, now we
applaud all the organizations that do fighton our behalf. Some are less compromising
than others. I agree, well, and that's why I chose to work
(38:12):
for Gun Owners of America. Sojust recently, Colorado had a assault weapons
ban and our Rocky Mountain Regional directorcalled me up said, I want to
list you and and put you speaking, and Colorado said, we don't usually
let somebody outside of Colorado speak.And I said, you're using Sutherland Springs
(38:37):
as an excuse to pass an assaultweapons band. Don't you think you should
speak to somebody from Sutherland Springs.The other guy with the assault weapons stopped.
That stopped the killing. And that'sand so I waited six and a
half hours on a zoom call totestify in Colorado, and we beat that
(39:01):
assault weapons band by one vote incommittee. Wow. Do you think anybody
would know your name if you hadthat ninety one seconds and you had stop
the shooter before he caused all ofthe carnage that he did. Probably not,
And the media doesn't like them knowingby name anyway. All right,
(39:22):
well, we want to thank youfor being on the show and we'll be
back in just night. Hey's CharlieJD. We use a lot of fuel
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Your color, your style. Comesee midway right off I ten or
call us at five nine seven seventyfive point fifty and we're back. So
(41:12):
this is one of those shows whereyou wish we had a three hour shock.
We yeah, yeah, when they'lltry to, don't you want to
do two hours or three hours orsomething? We run out down, So
we're back. We were going totry to get Paul on here. We're
gonna squeeze them in at the end, but we want to spend as much
time with mister Wutherford as we can. So Stephen, you want to cover
something on training, So let's talkabout training. How important is training and
(41:36):
what kinds of training do you thinkare important. So I used to shoot,
and you could say it shoot,competition or train or whatever you want
to call it. It was acompetition the local range. It was black
Hawk Range in San Antonio, andthey had a league competition, and so
we never knew from one point tonext what we were going to be looking
(41:59):
at the next week. One timewe walked up and there was a plastic
baby doll sitting on the table anda box of diapers in earplugs, and
they said, today's course of fire. When the whistle blows, you change
the baby's diaper, you pick itup, and you shield it away from
(42:22):
your targets. Shoot shooting with yourstrong hand and hit the targets. And
if you stutter your step and takethat shot, you're added five seconds to
the com to the time. Okay, at the end of it, you
manipulate the baby to your strong shoulder, shield it away, you drop your
(42:45):
magazine reach chamber, and then yougo across shooting at the targets, going
back across with your weak hand.Only I'm like, oh my goodness,
you know, well that's crazy.And then the next week we had a
welding hood set there with your plugsbecause we were going to wear the welding
(43:08):
hood. Now it's low light trainingwith tunnel vision, because you only had
a very small glass that you couldsee through. You could see your hands,
you could see the silhouette, butyou couldn't see your sites. So
you practiced shooting with low light situations. And I'm gonna tell people, if
(43:30):
you're practicing shooting at flat targets standingin one spot, you're practicing marksmanship.
And however good marksmanship is, it'snot going to get you through a real
life situation. And I was partof the governor's round table at El Paso
(43:51):
after the shooting at the Walmart,and so I have different information than what
most people have about that shooting.There were eight concealed Harry permant holders in
that Walmart, and none of theeight chose to confront the shooter. Why
is that. Well, those eight, I would say, are carrying guns.
(44:14):
They got their families out of theWalmart safely. I'm good with that.
That's honorable. None of them choseto confront the shooter because none of
them probably ever had any kind oftraining to do so. In my case,
if a shooter comes into Walmart,my family's there, I'm gonna tell
(44:36):
them hit the door, run,get out of here. Don't worry about
me. I'm gonna confront that shooter, and I'm gonna occupy him because my
family stands a better chance of gettingout. If I'm occupying that shooter,
I will save my family and yourstoo. That is the that is the
epitome of the sheep dog mentality.And that's That's why we encourage people to
(45:00):
have a plan with their family.A certain phrase or some dialogue that you
have pre planned, and you saythat to them and they know that it's
time to go hide, it's timeto call nine one one while you go
to work, if you choose todo so. I mean, it's our
families come first. Have you everinterviewed Pastor David. He was in Seattle,
(45:21):
Washington when the shooting at the walmartthere happened, and he told his
wife and family get out, getout now. He ran with his gun
and when he got to the frontof the store, everybody pointed outside said
the shooter went outside where he senthis family, but he stepped out.
At that point, the shooter wastrying to carjack someone and the guy was
(45:45):
trying to back out of the parkinglot. The shooter shot the guy that
was driving, and Pastor David shotand killed him. Pastor David, it's
a pastor. He was also amHe was able to save the guy in
the car. I say his mostrounded sheep dog this world has ever seen,
(46:08):
because he saved souls on Sunday.He took out the bad guy and
he saved the guy's life. Thatwas in the car. How amazingly.
So listen, we're gonna get ourfishing segment here at the end, and
(46:29):
I want to plug your book again, a town called Sutherland Springs faith and
heroism through tragedy. We're going toput a link on our webs on our
Facebook page and obviously they can googlethis. You said, there's several sources
through your what was barefoot right now, the Barefoot Defender, the Barefoot Defender,
(46:49):
and through Amazon and some other sg A and all and so,
sir, thank you so much forbeing here. It was absolutely my no,
what's an honor on all of ourbehalfs and overwhelming for us. That's
it talking. This is right,Paul's because because Paul, Paul's been I've
(47:12):
been watching Paul sitting over there withjust just awe in amazement listening to this
story. And that's that's amazing.It's just when do I sign up for
training? I mean, I meanthat's yeah, we started. We're doing
about two classes a month right now. I think I need to start,
(47:34):
Yeah, I think, yeah,yeah, we'll have yeah. So,
so Paul is a professional Stevens.Paul is a professional fishing guide at one
of our local lakes here, bigbass fishermen and crappy socle a, whatever
you call it. You're part ofthe country Fishing Guide. But we're also
bringing Paul into the into our worlda lot, just because we spend a
(47:54):
lot of time with him. Sowe have Paul is a good representative of
a of a new guy. I'dlove to go fishing with you someday,
Paul, catch fish. I tellyou, I tell you you being from
Tech, how far are you fromlike Taleda Ben, Sam Rayburn? You
know we're we're closer to like CaliversLake, Okay, Ironic Lake. What's
(48:22):
what's the one just south down byCorpus. But anyway, we've got several
good fishing yeah, oh yeah,yeah, the Elite series, bast Elite
series, a r at Taleda Ben. Right now, at least it's the
second day of the tournament. Ithink one of the Japanese guys had like
thirty two pounds yesterday fish thirty twopounds, But they're catching them. But
(48:44):
man, right now, Lake Seminoleis muddy still, rivers were flooded.
Spring Creek is still money, butthe water is warming up and a big
fish or moving, shall I justhad a kid last week. Atch a
ten pounds or leave that picture?Yeh yeah, man, it was all
I'm seeing in fight that fish.When you get a young and to catch
a big bat, he's looking fora lot. He's no pun intended.
(49:07):
It was awesome. But I'm gonnaget that post on my Facebook page to
day. But the crappy, thecroppie are spawning on lakes some of all,
and it's kind of hard to seethem with the muddy water. But
lake talk when they are biting inthat ten to twelve foot of water out
in front of Harvey Creek, littleRiver, Polk Creek, they're staging up
(49:28):
in there and their son's starting tomove in. But as we go over
the next couple of weeks, goingas we end February going into March,
it's going to be really good.Your your sinko's right now is working good
a top water bait as this waterwarms up, A big frog a buzz
bait, and you're on a buzzbait, yeah, you know how to eat
that thing. I mean, they'regonna jerk the right at you in But
it's this is a great time ofyear for for fishing, for especially for
(49:52):
bass fishing over the next couple weeks. And so you're going next week to
Gunnersville. Yes, I'll be goingto Gunnersville leaving after after Mars Sunday,
and we're gonna be up there allweek. So next week I'll be calling
in on the calling ground on theUh, we'll figure out. You know.
Speaking of churches, that's where theyhave that snake handling church. Hi
(50:12):
do I I've never been. I'venever been to one of them, have
you. Yeah, it's on SandMountain. Uh, that's where my wife's
family is from. Okay, Yeah, the Church of the Rattlesnake, I
think what to call it? Uh, I probably won't be going to that,
but but I'm talking about carrying something. I mean, yeah, right
(50:35):
yeah, right now. This timeof year is when we get the water
finally get straightened out. Oh yeah, it's gonna be yeah, it's gonna
be amazing. Yeah, it's Inoticed they they're pulling still pulling about sixty
seventy thousand cfs out of the LakeSeminold. But it's starting to come down
a little bit. And this rainwe had, uh today it's it's it
wasn't that much. I think it'sgonna start clearing up. Yeah, we
should spot this weekend. The showairs on Saturday Sunday. Supposed to be
(50:59):
a Chamber of Commerce of beautiful,beautiful weekend that we're gonna have here.
So it sure is so Steven andyou you going back to Uh you on
a tour now or you Well,we're gonna hit several places. Uh,
there's a big rally. Where's therally at? Where's the rally at?
Jid Okay, that's Mary and County. Be careful, Yeah, it's it's
(51:22):
gonna be an overnight rally. They'regonna stay overnight and we're gonna rally today
with them, and then tomorrow allday during the day pro gun rally.
Get out there, come see us, and then we're gonna hit up some
of the gun ranges and manufacturers ifwe can. And awesome, don't go
(51:43):
to the villages. Well, wereally appreciate you being part of the show.
Thanks again so much, and we'llsee everybody next week.
And welcome to the Town Outdoor showon Charlie and I grant from Fred Fred
say something. I'm Fred, Let'sjust say something. Oh something, there
you go, all right, Fall'sover there, and we've got some of
the folks in the studio today,so I want to roll right into this
because this is an auspicious occasion forus. We have the honor having somebody
in the studio. They want toread you an excerpt from something on the
(00:25):
Internet, from that well not themost reliable sources Wikipedia, and people can
go in there and change that.I could go in there and change something
on Wikipedia right now apparently, andsomebody would big Brother would proof read it
and disapprove it. I'm sure.But here's an article about the Sutherland Springs
church shooting it. I remember thechurch shooting out in Texas. Everybody knows
(00:46):
that. Everybody in our world knowsthis. But on November fifth, twenty
seventeen, at the first Baptist Churchin Southerland Springs, Texas, a local
man who I will not say hisname because we don't do that here shot
and killed twenty six people in woundedto twenty two others. And that bastard
was shot and wounded by another localresident and then killed himself after a car
(01:07):
chase. It's the deadlist mass shootingin Texas history, and the dead list
in an American place of worship,surpassing at Charleston Church shooting of twenty fifteen.
That local residence is key to endingthat that situation. And JD,
who do we have in the studiotoday? We have the local resident.
He has a name. His nameis Stephen Wiliford, and he is in
(01:30):
the studio today and we're extremely honoredto have him here today. And he's
sitting next to me. I'm sittingnext to the good guy with the gun.
We're not often honored to have aguest. If you look around you
at the guests that we normally have, it's well, Paul, We've always
honored to have Paul. But youknow, we're all our audience knows Fred
and they so yeah, it's it'sit's you know, if there is a
(01:57):
let's just call it a posture ofa superhero sheep dog. Uh. There
you go when this when this occurred. So you're watching the video, he's
the guy with the black cowboy haton the end of the table. There
he's showing off his text. Wewe spent our career in law enforcement thinking
is that a plan? Yeah?Friends over there trying to get you down
(02:20):
to his level. Friend's bumping.I'm trying to I'm trying to be tall,
but I have to keep pulling mymic down. I'm like, that's
the switch outline. I'm used toit. Oh boy, I'm sorry you
said this was unplanned, so ideous. There you go? Is that better?
(02:43):
Hey? Look at there, sothat the now taller textan with the
cowboy hat. There you go.I sat there and kept going down,
and I kept pulling the mic down. It's like, I was, well,
look at the camera over there.Now I can see the screen,
and now you actually look taller thanFred. That's good. Look a little
toll on the radio. I was, I have to pull the hat off
(03:04):
because well, every picture I seeyou on internet's got that black hat on,
so now they won't recognize you.Well, yeah, I know,
I know it went. I cankind of put anyway. That's all irrelevant.
I'm sure you've been on podcasts andradio shows and TV shows and everything
before, so you just had youIt's tough it out. The best thing
you do this is our primitive attemptto do that here in our studio.
(03:29):
We're cheap. We built the tablesand and did everything in here and hung
crap on the walls just to makeit look look like it was quite as
I professional. But don't stomp yourfeet too hard. It might fall apart.
So you're traveling around and you're withour represented from Gun Owners of America
today, and you brought a book, So why don't you just tell us
(03:53):
about Let's start with your book.Well, so the book is about more
than just the church shooting. Thebook is about the most precious little community
that you would ever want to bepart of on for generation in Southerland Springs,
Texas. The total population of SutherlandSprings is under six hundred people.
(04:16):
Wow, So we're Mayberry, USA, you know, with b and everybody
else knows everybody, and Sutherland Springsis just that. A lot of city
folks always say I never want tolive in a small community like that because
they got their nose in your business. And my response to that is,
(04:39):
if you don't have bad business,it's not a bad place to be.
It's not a problem. Because whenI was growing up, my great grandfather
used to take me around and deliverfood baskets to people that the community knew
were struggling. And he instilled thatsense of community and me and that very
(05:02):
church. He used to pick meup when I was five or six years
old, and I would grab ontothe rope and he'd pull me up and
down to ring the bell to bringpeople to services. Wow, that's my
community. That's what this country usedto be. And if we don't find
some sense of that again, weare doomed to fail. Whereabouts in Texas
(05:26):
is Sutherland Springs. It is aboutthirty five miles southeast of San Antonio.
Everybody knows the Doobie Brothers song ChinaGrove a little southeast of San Antonio,
so you have to drive through ChinaGrove from San Antonio to get down to
Sutherland Springs. We're kind of halfwaysbetween Victoria and San Antonio, so you're
(05:51):
sort of close to you, Valdi, right, I'm about three miles from
our three hours from two and ahalf three hours for Texas. Well,
yeah, that's closed for Texas.People don't get on. They fly in
too like Lubbuck and say hey,I'm coming in Texas, can you come
see me? You're nine hours oneway away, so that would be a
(06:17):
hard No. Yeah, we dealwith the same thing in Florida. It's
just shaped different. You know.We gotta go. We got to go
east and then and then south,and you can you can drive for twelve
hours from here and still be inFlorida. Yeah. So my dad was
a truck driver and he drove onionsfrom down in the valley all over to
Georgia and stuff. And he alwaysused to say the sun rose and the
(06:42):
sunset. And I still ain't outof Texas yet. It's a big state.
When we uh, yeah, whenwe've driven through there all the way
across it a couple of times,Yeah, for sure. So the I
just opened. I haven't read yourbook. I just opened it and read
a few excerpts from it. Iwant to have a tough time reading this
(07:02):
thing. There's just gonna pull onsome heartstrings, I'm pretty sure. So
I'm not going to peruse it toomuch right now, because we tend to
get emotional about people's lives, lovedones and dogs on the show. So
we're gonna let's talk more about you. So obviously when this went down,
(07:24):
you had access to an AR fifteen, which is not terribly uncommon in the
state of Texas. Is it notuncommon at all? I built my own
AR fifteen for competition. I builtit with a Spikes Tactical Good Florida Company
Strip Spikes Tactical lower receiver. Iused a rock River varmit or trigger in
(07:46):
it. I used a Wilson Chromelinechrome olly barrel for light, and I
just put it together with what Iwanted and I used to compete shooting and
moving and hidden targets. And Itell people all the time, if they're
standing in a range in one spotshooting at flat targets, they're practicing marksmanship.
(08:07):
And marksmanship. However good that is, it's not going to help you
in a real world situation. Youif you're in a gunfight and you're standing
in one place, you're the target. You just haven't figured it out yet.
We have a different spin on that. And that's uh. If you
if you have a really good stance, you have really bad tactics or what
(08:31):
is that? If you're in afair fair fight, your tactics suck,
Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.So but you in this situation, you
heard what was going on, andI don't I know how much trauma there
can be in and regurgitating facts aftera life or death struggle like this,
(08:52):
but without getting too deep into it. When we come back from the break,
I want to give you an opportunityto sort of outline the logistics usage
of your tools and maybe a littlebit whatever information you're willing to share and
to talk about within you know,without you know, getting too far off
(09:13):
on a tangent on that, becauseI get it. We get it.
There's been so and I'm kind ofbeaten dead airtime now because we've got less
than a minute before we break,only get too I didn't want to point
out that the book is called atown called Sutherland Springs, Faith and Heroism
through Tragedy. And he told mebefore the show that his daughter, you
(09:35):
see his name, and Rachel Howe, Rachel Howe is your daughter, absolutely
and so she helped you write this. And uh, it's we're gonna we're
gonna have a good couple of segmentshere, So y'all stay teamed. Yeah,
yeah, we'll be back here injust a minute. Have you I
(10:00):
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eight. Are on the web atrecon dash restoration dot com. We're back.
So see when we were talking beforethe break about giving you an opportunity
to give us the the skinny onwhat went down, because some of the
(11:01):
listeners are going, yeah, Ivaguely remember that. I remember it was
a big deal, and they heardwhat I read at the beginning of a
segment, but without getting into thenuances of everything, tell us kind of
what went down in your own words. Well, So, November fifth,
twenty seventeen, I was actually goingto stay at home from church that day
(11:22):
because I worked as a maintenance plumberfor a hospital and on Monday morning,
I was going to start my oncall, meaning I had to carry a
pager. Most millennials don't know whata pager is. This is confounded little
box that beeps on you and youget you where your phone can't and I
(11:43):
would have to go to the hospitaland I was gonna be working anywhere from
twenty to thirty extra hours that week, so I decided to stay home,
and my wife decided, since weweren't going to church, that she was
going to go tape and float myyounger daughter's house that was pregnant with my
(12:03):
very first grandbaby, and we werebuilding the home on our own. So
she went over there, and wewere on a timetable. We were trying
to get them out of our houseinto their own house before the baby was
born, So she went over tomy other daughter's house. My older daughter
was staying with us because she wasengaged to be married and she didn't want
(12:28):
to sign another apartment lease should bestuck with when she married her husband,
so she moved back in with us. And that kind of sets the morning
and I'm relaxing in bed with noshoes on, and the older daughter came
in said, Dad, doesn't thatsound like gunfire? Right away? Your
mind tries to make something normal outof abnormal things. And I thought it
(12:52):
sounded like somebody tapping in my window, and I went over and opened the
curtain. She said, no,come in the other room. It's a
loud her in there. And whenI went into the other room, I
realized it was gunfire and I ranfor my safe. That daughter ran outside,
jumped in her Honda Fit to runup the block and see what was
going on. And I called mywife and I said, where are you
(13:16):
at? She said, I'm atRachel's house. I said, stay there,
don't go anywhere. She said,what's going on? I said,
somebody shooting up the Baptist church.She said, don't go over there.
And I hung up on her andI grabbed an AR fifteen out of my
safe. I grabbed a handful ofAMMO, poking it into a magazine as
I ran for the door. Andbefore I reached the door, the other
(13:37):
daughter burst in and said, Dad, there's a guy in black tactical gear
shooting up the church. He hadstarted shooting from the outside through the walls
and the windows of one hundred yearold church. He put them all under
the pews and stuff, and thenhe started shooting through the doors. And
that's when my daughter drove up andsaw him shooting through the doors. She
(13:58):
said, said, he's in blacktactical gear shooting up the church. And
I said, did you call nineone one? She said, I did,
They're aware of it. So asI ran out the door, I
feared more the police that were comingthan I did the shooter himself, because
if you can imagine, they're cominghard and fast to a mass shooting.
(14:20):
And I'm running across the street withthose shoes on and an AR fifteen in
my hand. So the church isacross the street, yes, yes,
it's kind of around the corner.And it's from my front door to the
front door of the church is aboutone hundred yards. And if you see
this much fat running down the road, something serious is going down. I'm
(14:41):
just saying, I don't run,just no excuse. So you running towards
the church with your ar and halfwaysacross, I yelled out, and I
can't explain other than I truly believethat the Holy Spirit was on me and
called out a demon within the church. He had just shot Julie Workman through
(15:05):
the breast and they were hiding undera pew, and then she shot Chris
Workman in the back, instantly paralyzingChris. And he was pointing the pistol
at Chris's face, and Chris said, I just knew I was going to
meet Jesus, and he said,I heard you yell. He said.
(15:26):
The expression on the shooter's face changed, and he dropped his rifle in the
church. He was shooting people witha rifle through the pews and then he'd
walk over point blank range and finishthem with a pistol. He heard me
yell. He dropped his rifle inthe church, and he came out shooting
(15:46):
at me. He had on Classthree body armor and a ballistic bulletproof helmet,
and he started firing at me,and I ran behind a Dodge pickup
truck. There's something about a sixpoint two liter V eight HEMI that was
real comforting at the moment, andI came over the hood. He hit
the truck in front of me.He shattered the windshield of the car behind
(16:07):
me, hit the house behind me. I put one in his left chest,
stopped by the body armor. Iput one in his abdomen, stopped
by the body armor. At thatpoint he ran for his vehicle, which
was sitting in the middle of thestreet, driver's side door open, engine
running, And when he turned tohis side, I was able to put
one high in his side, inbetween the plates, and then I put
(16:30):
one in his legs. He gotinto his vehicle, slammed the door,
and he put two shots through theside window at me, and I saw
the glass open up and falling.I put one where I perceived his had
to be. I couldn't see itfrom the reflection of the glass, but
it broke right underneath the room ofthe helmet, from one side of his
(16:52):
forehead to the other. And thenhe wanted out. He was done.
He accelerated, turned the corner,running as fast as he could. By
the time I got in the middleof the street, he was about one
hundred and fifty yards away and leaving. I put a bullet through the back
windshield that shattered, that went throughthe driver's side seat hit him right at
the left shoulder blade. He toppedthe hill and out of sight. I
(17:15):
ran over to a pickup truck.There was another dodge by the way.
It was parked at the stop sign. I tapped on the window. I
didn't even know the guy, andI tapped on the window and said,
that guy just shot up the Baptistchurch and we have to stop him.
Now. Picture that he just sawthe whole gunfight. He was on nine
to one one talking to dispatch.And I run over and tap on the
(17:40):
window and said, that guy justshot up the Baptist church. Any sane
human being in this world would havejust jammed on the gas and left me
there. But this is Texas.We're not known for sanity. So the
next thing I heard with locks popopen. I climbed up in the cab
of the truck with a long,tall Texan has a long horn skull tattooed
in the middle of his neck andthe horns run up under his ears.
(18:06):
It's a cartoon of Texas. JohnnyLangendorff. I had never met him before
in my life, and I climbedup in the cabin. He took off
chasing. We chased eleven point sixmiles and then the shooter ended it himself.
He tucked the pistol up under hishelmet and pulled the trigger. And
I'm okay with that. Yeah,yeah, that's not really bothered by that.
(18:26):
Wow, well that is that's amazing. And there are so many When
you're talking, I'm listening to thingsthat we've been teaching for years, and
we've been preaching to people for years, and we go into houses of worship
and we we share the concerns andwe use this situation as an example a
lot of times because and in ouractive footer courses that we teach and all
(18:49):
the things, this is one ofthose examples that we that we talk about
but have never heard. I haven'tread your book, didn't know the whole
story. There's so much more toit. And you know, with respect,
my impression of you leading up tothis point was nowhere near as pronounced
(19:12):
as it is now going forward thestory I just heard from you. Kudos
to you, sir, Bless yourheart. I can't imagine you having handled
that situation any better. But Ihave one question. When you yelled,
what did you say? I wasmy question because I want that magic word.
Are you ready? For something deepand philosophical. Sure, I yelled,
(19:36):
Hey, I don't know, butI will tell you. People say,
are you a religious man? No, I'm a man of faith.
I believe God created faith, Mancreated religion. I believe that God spoke
to a demon at that moment.And what I thought I yelled and what
(19:59):
actually came out of my mouth weretwo different things. Because they heard me
in the church, and if youcan imagine, they were hiding under fews
hearing gunshots and they heard me yell, and at that moment, it wouldn't
have taken him two seconds to finishChristian and his mother off. Instead,
he dropped his rifle in the churchand came out shooting at me. The
(20:22):
tone of your voice, I'm surehad something to do with it. And
we talk about command presence and commandvoice and things like that. And I
remember a friend of ours that workedfor me on the road, very soft
spoken person from South Pacific, theposuea who was, yes, very soft
spoken, generally speaking. And Iremember one night when he was chasing somebody
(20:48):
and he bellowed stop, and hesounded like a god on a o and
god off of a volcano, tellingeveryone. And I was like did that
come from? And and it isin fact amazing what you know, the
impression, but without a little bitof maybe divine guidance, you know,
(21:12):
but I wouldn't. I would I'dpay any amount of money for recording of
you in that moment because what yousaid saved lives and turned the situation into
a real fight between someone who's apiece of you know what that's in there
(21:32):
doing what he was doing, versussomeone who had the ability to fight back.
And we also very are very strongproponents here of people carrying firearms in
church and being able to defend themselves, and a lot of people just don't
want to. They don't want toviolate the sanctity of the house of worship
by bringing guns in. And thisis a perfect example of why they in
fact should. Remember when Jesus askedhis apostles, do you have a sword?
(21:57):
They said, they said, wehave these. He said, that's
good. But if you do nothave a sword, so your cloak and
buy one. Yep, absolutely well. Well, and it's it's you know,
we we've kind of discussed this before, and it's it's as a general
rule, with any of these uh, I only might call them people,
(22:18):
any of these creatures that go anddo these bad things at mass shootings where
they're going into situation where you havean unarmed, ununarmed crowd, and they
do these bad things. Just anyopposition sometimes will completely change the change the
day. You know, when theday so right, we're gonna be back
(22:40):
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we're back. So we're gonna changeto tune just a little because of our
variants of our show format and stufflike that. So we're going to come
back to mister Wilford here in justin a few minutes in the third segment
(23:45):
and talk about some other things.But just want to kind of change the
direction just to fudge I do.We're gonna put the book and the and
the links to where we can findit once. I'm sure this is available
through multiple sources. Can you getthis like on Amazon or something? You
(24:07):
can get it on Amazon. Youcan actually, I think you can go
to gun Owners dot O r Gand pick it up. You can go
to link the Barefoot Defender and that'smy website and you can pick up the
book from that. All that isis a link to Amazon. Okay,
So while we're we're here, Imean, this is a you talked about.
(24:33):
We talked about being the sheep dog. Philosophy is big in our world.
We are we we and that camefrom we picked up on that concept
from Lieutenant Colonel Dave Gressman. You'refamiliar with his book. He's a good
friend of mine, yes, andhe he we've we've had lunch with him
at events and and he wrote ablurb for the book by the way,
Oh cool. Yeah, he's anawesome guy. He wouldn't remember us from
(24:56):
Adam, but but we're just someof the massive is that follow him.
But we quote his material in allof our coursework in all of our classes,
and we talk about the physiological psychologicalstress dynamics and the sense of time
manipulation, slow motion, fast motion. We talk about vascular constriction, and
we talk about tunnel vision and auditoryexclusion, all those things that happened to
(25:19):
us. Assume you're familiar with thoseconcepts absolutely, and way more familiar because
everything slowed to a crawl for mewhen it was happening. And basically I
was told that that's when your traininghas kicked in, and that's when he's
a take advantage of that. Well, that's when the mid brain takes over
(25:40):
for the conscious And I've tried,I try to explain that in a real
simple concept to most people, andit's like that caveman that's way down deep
inside your brain is running the showunder that critical stress when you have that
critical incident stress going on. Ifyou haven't trained the caveman or cave woman
what to do in the critical incident, the thinking person that's sitting here talking
(26:04):
on the radio ain't gonna be anywhereto be found under critical incident stretch.
You. So, if you don'ttrain your brain to do anything in by
stretch situation, that does exactly whatyou trained it to do, which is
nothing. Steven, what have youspent your career doing by trade? I'm
a plumber, I have I callmyself a drain surgeon. That's good.
(26:33):
Well, see, I'm not justa plumber. You know, I've spent
more time in school than most graduatesbecause I've got Texas Medgas certifications. I've
got the ASSE sixty ten, whichis a national med gas and national brazing.
I've got backflow prevention, I've gotemergency eyewash, I've got OSHA thirty
(26:57):
ten, I've got you know,my resume goes out. I've spent so
much time in plumbing that people can'tbelieve. And so yeah, well,
listening to the stuff you talked aboutand when you were describing the incident,
You've also spent some time on therange. Obviously a considerable amount of time
(27:18):
on the range, and probably I'mguessing a considerable amount of competitive shooting.
And I was a competitor. Iwas also an instructor. One of my
students went on set women's collegiate nationalrecord with a pistol. Wow. Wow,
Well, obviously you've spent some timebehind that ar You said you shot
competitively, and you built that riflefor competition, and well, I'm not
(27:41):
a big fan of competitive shooting versustactics. I like tactics and training with
tactics. A lot of competitive shootingis jumping out into a doorway and exposing
yourself and doing things, but doneright, you know, and with the
right mindset that the two skills docrossover. I can't shoot competitively because I
(28:02):
can't bring myself to do it fastenough, because I'm afraid to jump out
from behind cover. I'm over there, creeping out behind cover doing things.
But the point is is you spendenough time behind that you obviously could hit
what you aimed at. You talkedabout you had an Eotech. Right,
Yes, so you've got a redDot site, You've got a very fine
tuned rifle, and you obviously knewwhat you were doing with it. We're
(28:22):
going to come back in just aminute and expand on that. And I
want to talk about your relationship withGA because you're wearing a shirt and you're
here with their guy. We'll beback in just a minute. Are you
looking for a place to buy qualityshoes but want to work with a local
small business that greets you like afriend and still knows what they're doing.
I'm J. D. Johnson.Both Charlie and I use the Shoe Box
for all of our work boots,casual shoes, and shirt. Jeff Weldon
(28:44):
runs a great store that carries men's, women's, and children's shoes and a
number of major brands. They knowhow to fit shoes properly and can even
fit you in orthotics to make greatshoes fit even better. If you see
us, we're probably wearing a carheart shirt and bordered by Jeff and shoes
from there as well. They're locatedat twenty eight to twenty South Road Street,
just north of the fair Grounds.Tell them we said hello, Hey,
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(29:06):
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(29:27):
or call him at eight five Oseven sixty six thirteen four. All right,
we're back. We're going to spendanother segment with mister Stephen Wilfrid.
I want to go out on themtoo far. I want to say the
hero of the Fairfoot, the fairFairfoot defender. I love that. That's
(29:48):
awesome. Y'all must not have themsteam stickers in South Texas that I that
I experienced up in North Texas.On Yeah, we do have them,
but there's some things adrenaline allows absolutelyuh And people ask me all the time,
really, you didn't take time toput shoes on? I said,
when the gunfire is aimed at someoneyou care about, you take your necessities
(30:11):
with you. You're lucky I hadpants on. Yeah, they would have
been a different name. You wentwith you, You went with what you
had the pants. This defender justdoesn't do it. It's like the barefoot
defender. I will, I will, Yeah, I try to. The
only the only difference between me andmy setup is I tend. I tend
(30:33):
to keep loaded magazines around. Becausewhen you started talking about thumbing some rounds
in the magazine, I was Iwas going on with God. That okay,
that had to be. That's Icall it. Because I was asked
to speak before the United States Senateon Safe Storage Act, and I had
to talk about the fact that Iam against a safe storage Act. But
(31:00):
the reason I had my gun lockedaway is five years earlier, I was
burglarized and the burglar got the onlypistol that was outside the safe, and
I feared for a long time cominghome and the burglar'd be back in my
house, this time with my gun. So I made a habit of unloading
(31:22):
everything and putting away in the safeeverything. And that is ninety seconds I
timed at three different times. Mybest time was ninety one seconds being able
to get into my safe, geta gun out grab a handful of AMMO
and load it running to the door. That's ninety one seconds. I'll never
(31:45):
get back. Who knows who elseI could have saved if I'd been there
faster. And Chris Workman himself saidbecause he was shot. I told Chris,
I said, if I had beenthere fifteen seconds earlier, you'd walk
your daughter down the aisle when shegot married. Do you carry concealed when
(32:07):
you go to church? Absolutely?Well? No, Sometimes at church I
carry wide open and people do.But you carry, oh, absolutely And
people say why do you carry wideopen? First off, I've had a
little bit of pistol retention skills andtraining and stuff, And I figure,
(32:27):
if somebody comes first Baptist Church again, Sutherland Springs are gonna look for me
first. Anyway, probably they're gonnalook for the black cowboy hat. How
many rounds did you get in thatmagazine? I had eight rounds in the
magazine and I hit him six outof eight, had two left. I
hit him one hundred percent of theshots I pulled off. Does anybody else
in the church, or prior tothis occurring, did anybody else carry firearms?
(32:50):
See? I don't believe in coincidences. There were four men that normally
carried at the church, and thepastor being one of them. He was
training in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma,to he was training so he could be
a black powder instructor so that duringsummer camp he could teach the kids black
(33:15):
powder shooting. And he was inOklahoma, he wasn't there. Rick Green
was good friend of mine. Hewas an army veteran from Vietnam, normally
carried. It was the weekend ofthe time change, and he chose to
(33:37):
feed as he knew the pastor wasout of town. He chose to feed
his cattle that day and was goingto make it to church late. He
was not there. We had oneother person that normally carried that their wife
went on a trip in her carand he did not want her traveling without
(33:58):
a gun, so he loaned herhis gun. And the fourth person was
late to church that day also,And so all four people that normally would
have carried. And I truly believethat there is no coincidences. It's like
Satan said, day is the day, and God said, but you forgot
(34:20):
about my servants. Stephen, doyou know why this person showed up there
at that church on this day.Well, he showed up the week before
to the church to the Fall festival, and he got so irate and stuff.
They asked him to leave. It'san ongoing domestic if I remember right,
it was an ongoing domestic in hislife. Well, they asked him
(34:44):
to leave. He said he hatedall Christians with and he was using quite
profanity and stuff in the midst ofa bunch of children. They asked him
to leave. His mother and fatherin law and brother in law went to
that church. His wife's grandmother wentto that church. They the mother and
father in law, brother in lawwere not there at the church that day,
(35:07):
but he killed his wife's grandmother.Jeez. Yeah, So, so
you are here wearing the Gun Ownersof America shirt. I have me a
brand new g A hat on myhead. Thank you, Jed for the
hats. Yeah, and we appreciatethe challenge coins. That's always you know,
I'm a big collector and uh foranybody out there that has any and
(35:31):
uh, so tell us about uhtell us, I want to plug the
g A while you're here too,Jed sitting on a couch. He wouldn't
come out here and do it,so I think he's he's uh, he's
uh cater. He wants to putyou out front today. So well,
Gun Owners of America. Uh sowith my story, uh, I could
work with any one of the biggun advocate advocacy groups. I am life
(35:55):
members to almost all of them.I believe in the shotgun approach. You
know, I sign up to allof them. But when it came down
and the rubber meets the road,gun owners of Them of America are the
only ones that are no compromise whenit comes to our Second Amendment. We
don't believe in any you know,minute infringement upon our right to be able
(36:20):
to the Bill of Rights is theBill of Rights. It's God given rights,
and it restricts the government from infringingupon those rights. And I don't
care what state you're in. Thatcovers. The federal government doesn't cover everything
they'd like to cover. But theBill of Rights, God given rights were
(36:45):
set up to where no states shouldbe able to infringe upon those rights.
Your freedom of speech, which we'redoing right now, your freedom of religion,
and all those bills of the Billof Rights right along with your Second
an Amendment. And what they dois keep the government in check and g
(37:07):
Away is the only ones that reallyfights every gun law out there, and
so they're of the same mindset thatI am. Joe Biden himself after the
shooting, was asked in a prescotteand he was vice president at the time,
he said, I should have neverowned the kind of gun that I
(37:28):
used. He's such a yeah,they don't get it started on that.
So he thinks I should have steppedout of my house with a shotgun,
blasted two shots in the air andthe killer would have just run off.
Well. The president at the timecalled the Constitution a charter of negative liberties,
which just offends me, like thereis no tomorrow of it. Yeah,
(37:51):
so yeah, we don't. Wedon't. Uh. We take offense
at most of the current administration,and we believe the same thing as the
bill right, which is in factrights. And you know, now we
applaud all the organizations that do fighton our behalf. Some are less compromising
than others. I agree, well, and that's why I chose to work
(38:12):
for Gun Owners of America. Sojust recently, Colorado had a assault weapons
ban and our Rocky Mountain Regional directorcalled me up said, I want to
list you and and put you speaking, and Colorado said, we don't usually
let somebody outside of Colorado speak.And I said, you're using Sutherland Springs
(38:37):
as an excuse to pass an assaultweapons band. Don't you think you should
speak to somebody from Sutherland Springs.The other guy with the assault weapons stopped.
That stopped the killing. And that'sand so I waited six and a
half hours on a zoom call totestify in Colorado, and we beat that
(39:01):
assault weapons band by one vote incommittee. Wow. Do you think anybody
would know your name if you hadthat ninety one seconds and you had stop
the shooter before he caused all ofthe carnage that he did. Probably not,
And the media doesn't like them knowingby name anyway. All right,
(39:22):
well, we want to thank youfor being on the show and we'll be
back in just night. Hey's CharlieJD. We use a lot of fuel
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(41:12):
this is one of those shows whereyou wish we had a three hour shock.
We yeah, yeah, when they'lltry to, don't you want to
do two hours or three hours orsomething? We run out down, So
we're back. We were going totry to get Paul on here. We're
gonna squeeze them in at the end, but we want to spend as much
time with mister Wutherford as we can. So Stephen, you want to cover
something on training, So let's talkabout training. How important is training and
(41:36):
what kinds of training do you thinkare important. So I used to shoot,
and you could say it shoot,competition or train or whatever you want
to call it. It was acompetition the local range. It was black
Hawk Range in San Antonio, andthey had a league competition, and so
we never knew from one point tonext what we were going to be looking
(41:59):
at the next week. One timewe walked up and there was a plastic
baby doll sitting on the table anda box of diapers in earplugs, and
they said, today's course of fire. When the whistle blows, you change
the baby's diaper, you pick itup, and you shield it away from
(42:22):
your targets. Shoot shooting with yourstrong hand and hit the targets. And
if you stutter your step and takethat shot, you're added five seconds to
the com to the time. Okay, at the end of it, you
manipulate the baby to your strong shoulder, shield it away, you drop your
(42:45):
magazine reach chamber, and then yougo across shooting at the targets, going
back across with your weak hand.Only I'm like, oh my goodness,
you know, well that's crazy.And then the next week we had a
welding hood set there with your plugsbecause we were going to wear the welding
(43:08):
hood. Now it's low light trainingwith tunnel vision, because you only had
a very small glass that you couldsee through. You could see your hands,
you could see the silhouette, butyou couldn't see your sites. So
you practiced shooting with low light situations. And I'm gonna tell people, if
(43:30):
you're practicing shooting at flat targets standingin one spot, you're practicing marksmanship.
And however good marksmanship is, it'snot going to get you through a real
life situation. And I was partof the governor's round table at El Paso
(43:51):
after the shooting at the Walmart,and so I have different information than what
most people have about that shooting.There were eight concealed Harry permant holders in
that Walmart, and none of theeight chose to confront the shooter. Why
is that. Well, those eight, I would say, are carrying guns.
(44:14):
They got their families out of theWalmart safely. I'm good with that.
That's honorable. None of them choseto confront the shooter because none of
them probably ever had any kind oftraining to do so. In my case,
if a shooter comes into Walmart,my family's there, I'm gonna tell
(44:36):
them hit the door, run,get out of here. Don't worry about
me. I'm gonna confront that shooter, and I'm gonna occupy him because my
family stands a better chance of gettingout. If I'm occupying that shooter,
I will save my family and yourstoo. That is the that is the
epitome of the sheep dog mentality.And that's That's why we encourage people to
(45:00):
have a plan with their family.A certain phrase or some dialogue that you
have pre planned, and you saythat to them and they know that it's
time to go hide, it's timeto call nine one one while you go
to work, if you choose todo so. I mean, it's our
families come first. Have you everinterviewed Pastor David. He was in Seattle,
(45:21):
Washington when the shooting at the walmartthere happened, and he told his
wife and family get out, getout now. He ran with his gun
and when he got to the frontof the store, everybody pointed outside said
the shooter went outside where he senthis family, but he stepped out.
At that point, the shooter wastrying to carjack someone and the guy was
(45:45):
trying to back out of the parkinglot. The shooter shot the guy that
was driving, and Pastor David shotand killed him. Pastor David, it's
a pastor. He was also amHe was able to save the guy in
the car. I say his mostrounded sheep dog this world has ever seen,
(46:08):
because he saved souls on Sunday.He took out the bad guy and
he saved the guy's life. Thatwas in the car. How amazingly.
So listen, we're gonna get ourfishing segment here at the end, and
(46:29):
I want to plug your book again, a town called Sutherland Springs faith and
heroism through tragedy. We're going toput a link on our webs on our
Facebook page and obviously they can googlethis. You said, there's several sources
through your what was barefoot right now, the Barefoot Defender, the Barefoot Defender,
(46:49):
and through Amazon and some other sg A and all and so,
sir, thank you so much forbeing here. It was absolutely my no,
what's an honor on all of ourbehalfs and overwhelming for us. That's
it talking. This is right,Paul's because because Paul, Paul's been I've
(47:12):
been watching Paul sitting over there withjust just awe in amazement listening to this
story. And that's that's amazing.It's just when do I sign up for
training? I mean, I meanthat's yeah, we started. We're doing
about two classes a month right now. I think I need to start,
(47:34):
Yeah, I think, yeah,yeah, we'll have yeah. So,
so Paul is a professional Stevens.Paul is a professional fishing guide at one
of our local lakes here, bigbass fishermen and crappy socle a, whatever
you call it. You're part ofthe country Fishing Guide. But we're also
bringing Paul into the into our worlda lot, just because we spend a
(47:54):
lot of time with him. Sowe have Paul is a good representative of
a of a new guy. I'dlove to go fishing with you someday,
Paul, catch fish. I tellyou, I tell you you being from
Tech, how far are you fromlike Taleda Ben, Sam Rayburn? You
know we're we're closer to like CaliversLake, Okay, Ironic Lake. What's
(48:22):
what's the one just south down byCorpus. But anyway, we've got several
good fishing yeah, oh yeah,yeah, the Elite series, bast Elite
series, a r at Taleda Ben. Right now, at least it's the
second day of the tournament. Ithink one of the Japanese guys had like
thirty two pounds yesterday fish thirty twopounds, But they're catching them. But
(48:44):
man, right now, Lake Seminoleis muddy still, rivers were flooded.
Spring Creek is still money, butthe water is warming up and a big
fish or moving, shall I justhad a kid last week. Atch a
ten pounds or leave that picture?Yeh yeah, man, it was all
I'm seeing in fight that fish.When you get a young and to catch
a big bat, he's looking fora lot. He's no pun intended.
(49:07):
It was awesome. But I'm gonnaget that post on my Facebook page to
day. But the crappy, thecroppie are spawning on lakes some of all,
and it's kind of hard to seethem with the muddy water. But
lake talk when they are biting inthat ten to twelve foot of water out
in front of Harvey Creek, littleRiver, Polk Creek, they're staging up
(49:28):
in there and their son's starting tomove in. But as we go over
the next couple of weeks, goingas we end February going into March,
it's going to be really good.Your your sinko's right now is working good
a top water bait as this waterwarms up, A big frog a buzz
bait, and you're on a buzzbait, yeah, you know how to eat
that thing. I mean, they'regonna jerk the right at you in But
it's this is a great time ofyear for for fishing, for especially for
(49:52):
bass fishing over the next couple weeks. And so you're going next week to
Gunnersville. Yes, I'll be goingto Gunnersville leaving after after Mars Sunday,
and we're gonna be up there allweek. So next week I'll be calling
in on the calling ground on theUh, we'll figure out. You know.
Speaking of churches, that's where theyhave that snake handling church. Hi
(50:12):
do I I've never been. I'venever been to one of them, have
you. Yeah, it's on SandMountain. Uh, that's where my wife's
family is from. Okay, Yeah, the Church of the Rattlesnake, I
think what to call it? Uh, I probably won't be going to that,
but but I'm talking about carrying something. I mean, yeah, right
(50:35):
yeah, right now. This timeof year is when we get the water
finally get straightened out. Oh yeah, it's gonna be yeah, it's gonna
be amazing. Yeah, it's Inoticed they they're pulling still pulling about sixty
seventy thousand cfs out of the LakeSeminold. But it's starting to come down
a little bit. And this rainwe had, uh today it's it's it
wasn't that much. I think it'sgonna start clearing up. Yeah, we
should spot this weekend. The showairs on Saturday Sunday. Supposed to be
(50:59):
a Chamber of Commerce of beautiful,beautiful weekend that we're gonna have here.
So it sure is so Steven andyou you going back to Uh you on
a tour now or you Well,we're gonna hit several places. Uh,
there's a big rally. Where's therally at? Where's the rally at?
Jid Okay, that's Mary and County. Be careful, Yeah, it's it's
(51:22):
gonna be an overnight rally. They'regonna stay overnight and we're gonna rally today
with them, and then tomorrow allday during the day pro gun rally.
Get out there, come see us, and then we're gonna hit up some
of the gun ranges and manufacturers ifwe can. And awesome, don't go
(51:43):
to the villages. Well, wereally appreciate you being part of the show.
Thanks again so much, and we'llsee everybody next week.
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