December 14, 2024 • 51 mins
In this week's episode, the gang discusses the Daniel Penny and Fred goes through multiple layers of the legal ramifications that details that were apart of the case. They also went through the great fishing currently going on at Lake Seminole.
Thanks, as always, to Captain Paul Tyre for joining the show. If you’re interested in going fishing with Paul, visit lakeseminolefishingguides.com or find them on Facebook @LakeSeminoleFishingGuides.
Check out our archive of podcasts here: https://ihr.fm/36mzYjf.
Follow the Talon Training Group and Range on Facebook @TalonRange. Listen live to the Talon Outdoors Show from 10-11 a.m. ET on 100.7 WFLA!
WFLA Tallahassee Live stream: https://ihr.fm/3huZWYe
Follow WFLA Tallahassee on Twitter @WFLAFM and like us on Facebook at @wflafm.
Thanks, as always, to Captain Paul Tyre for joining the show. If you’re interested in going fishing with Paul, visit lakeseminolefishingguides.com or find them on Facebook @LakeSeminoleFishingGuides.
Check out our archive of podcasts here: https://ihr.fm/36mzYjf.
Follow the Talon Training Group and Range on Facebook @TalonRange. Listen live to the Talon Outdoors Show from 10-11 a.m. ET on 100.7 WFLA!
WFLA Tallahassee Live stream: https://ihr.fm/3huZWYe
Follow WFLA Tallahassee on Twitter @WFLAFM and like us on Facebook at @wflafm.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And welcome to the Town Outdoor Show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Charlie, I'm Captain Paul Tarr, and I'm Grant.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, well, I love this weather. It's been nice.
It's been nice. Man. That's up and this is there
on Saturday, this first day of rifle season over my
way in my d m U warm up. Yeah, well
that's all right. The deer live there year around. But
(00:33):
I just like I like it when it's cold us.
I've been been busy trying to get everything ready. But
I think I got all the corns. The grazing's up
and everything's there. But man, I just hadn't seen a
whole lot of bucks. We started seeing a few bachelor groups.
Still we're so far behind on the rut schedule from
where j D you know, all y'all hunt.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My rut's over. I'm getting the multiple rack bucks and
eating together again already.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Where we're at, we ain't even started. I don't understand
how that works. Hour and a half.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You're around your house in Mitchell County, Georgia, where I
hunt right now, the brut's about to start or should
be starting really quick, and like Grady and Thomas County South,
but I'm a little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Further north started here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, I've had an eight point day before yesterday morning.
I had to stop three different times on the street
I live on to let him chase a dough in
front of the truck, and back and forth and back
and forth. It took me five minutes to get off
of my street.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I mean, I had to threat a SAX harassment suit
on one in my backyard the other day because he
was just getting out of hand.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Uh no, My rut is pretty much over in Mitchell County,
but I'm hunting a place in Grady County now and
it's just getting started, so you know. And then Tallahassee's
kind of on the same schedule as South Georgia because
we're not that far.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Over there.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, you're your brut is February. Yeah, I remember killing
a deer at your place over there years ago, Charlie
in February. The second that was absolutely full full born.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Root, almost kind of that endo Gaston County, I guess
the west end of Gaston County not a whole lot
different than where he is.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It takes a while for you know, we're a little
slower over there coming around here, you know, in Gason
County deer. You know they getting up with j D
used to come over from Gaston County to Jackson County
chasing one when he was in high school and college
and all too. You know, they read a little singers do.
We were like, what are they doing over here? They
coming over here forrett the cute ones, and.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Hey, y'all have to I tell you what man per
per capita. Jackson County had some of the prettiest women
when I was when I was, when I was but
a teenager, late teenager, early twenty they I was, I'm
pretty women and pretty girls in Jackson.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
There's some good looking women over there. They get a
little mean as they get older. But you know I
had to come in Leon County and get me one
take her back home.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I ain't sure you didn't get a mean when I
kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Got that didn't work out well that way. But she's
she keeps me straight. That's why That's why I think,
that's why we've been together for twenty four years, is because,
uh she she's mean enough to keep me in line.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I had to go to Alabama to.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Preach your daughters, want them one of them where where
her family probably said you know, you should have charity
in your heart. You need to earn your way into heaven.
And there's your opportunity right there. If you if you can,
if you can, if you can, if you can complete
this quest one of the video games. You know, here's
(03:35):
your challenge.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Little do they know?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Uh huh uh. At least she's got she she got.
She got a new name on her phone for from
from watching Yellow Yelloustone today.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, apparently don't.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You can't say it.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm not, but apparently you know Jamie, the the kind
of the the slimy brother.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And the attorney.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, of course calls his sister, and that the name
is shown on the screen as to what his sister
calls him. And that's now become my name and my
wife's phone.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
That is funny. I don't look at my I don't.
I don't look at I don't call my wife's phone
when it's in the same room, and I don't look
at the caller. I just don't. I don't want to know.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
When she calls me. I've got a separate ring tune.
It's that that ship alarm, warning wife, warning wife. Well,
I know if I'm not doing what I'm supposed to
go to the other room or make sure I'm not
overheard doing whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Does she know that's her ringtone?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
She does?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, what does want? Does she listen to the show?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Okay, you really had, I'm not gonna listen to you.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Quit listening to.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's what I get.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think mine actually listens more now than she ever has.
I don't really know why, but uh, maybe boredom.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I mean people, I'm learning more and more people are
listening to this show that I never thought listen to
this show. And now I'm thinking about going back and
trying to delete some of the episodes.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm just gonna do a Fred out take and do
all the stuff that you wouldn't want anybody to know,
and I hold you hostage.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Stuff that we have to listen to, whether we want
to or not.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, lord, if I did an outtake from the breaks,
oh boy, just just the breaks.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
No, I'd be disbarred.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well we lose the show.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That would be like ethics is brought up the next day.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's all in good fun, though, Speaking of all of
your stuff, you mentioned something for the show about the.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Any Daniel pennything that Judge up there Wiley something or another,
Maxwell E.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Cody, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That was the most bizarre turn of events I've ever seen.
Apparently there wasn't any precedent for it because the defense
lawyers the idea that the dury can come back hung
on count one.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So then you.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
And so I understand when you're dealing with with homicide
or act battery or you know, a crime against a person.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So Daniel Penny, for the people that are not following
the news constantly, was the former marine on.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Bus I think subway subway.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
He was on a subway and there was a gentleman
who was apparently mentally ill. He wasn't he wasn't he
wasn't acting right. And they've had a lot of violence
on the subway. They've had people pushed into subways, put.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know, much threatened to kill everybody on the right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
He was making a bunch of threats and then he's
acting out and Daniel and he tries to restrain him,
or does restrain him and puts him into a choke
cold or if you want to call it, daddy puts
and and there is a technique there that restraint that
is not deadly. Typically depending on how you execute it.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It was not deadly in this case the.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Way well it wasn't. Yeah, and he didn't kill him,
but later on.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
He's still breathing when the police arrived.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And this happens in custody cases and law enforcement a
lot where people are right there on the edge of
expiring because of drug use, physical ailments. There's a lot
of things can be going on, yeah, and then and
the additional stress could potentially push them over. Nine and
nine of one hundred times it doesn't. But every once
(07:44):
in a blue moon that that person expires later on,
and that's what happened here, is he expired after being restrained.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Correct, So were there's kind of and that's a sub issue.
What he's talking about is a sudden custody yes syndrome.
I mean there's there are two schools of thought on that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Some experts would say, no, that's not a recognized science.
Some of them would say, yet it is. In this case,
it really wasn't characterized as that it was a totality
of Okay, we had this going, this going, this going,
and this going. It was a multiple multiple things contributed
to his death. And I don't think they proved up
(08:22):
the cause of death, uh, in the case. But that's
not really what the issue was, not where I was
going with it. Anytime you have a homicide, a battery,
and justification ken if asserted. So another self defense is
what we're talking about, a justification. And when self defense
is raised, it sort of shifts the burden to the
(08:43):
prosecution to prove a negative, which is a difficult thing
to do. And you know, and that's we have that
in Florida. It's called change your ground, uh. And so
but there's self defense is and is recognized all fifty states.
So when you have a lesser included offense, in this case,
we had involuntary manslaughter, which is a higher degree of culpability,
(09:05):
almost like a reckless degree of culpability, and then you
had negligent homicide, which is a much lower standard of culpability,
justification can be used to negate both those charges. So
if jury is instructed, if you find that the state
did not prove that Daniel Penny was not justified in
(09:30):
causing the death on count one, which was the manslaughter,
then you're done. You find him not guilty, all right,
And if you find him guilty of homside, then you're done,
stick with that. No, look sorry, we're coming up all great.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, and we'll be back in just we're gonna pick
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(10:52):
we're back. So when we left Fred, we're talking about
to Daniel pennycase and to catch people back up to
where we were quickly. So what happened when the judge
gave the jury instructions they were supposed to have If
they found justification in the first charge, the highest level charge,
then they should have negated the city.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
They should have negated the charge. So that was the
way the instructions read. I went back and looked at
the instructions. So the deal was, if you find he's justified,
then you're done, case closed, not guilty, we all go home.
Because justification applies to both the initial charge and the
lesser included, so just.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
They never should have been sent back to consider.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
This justification on the lower charge. Now, if you found
him guilty of manslaughter or not guilty of manslaughter, or
rather for something other than justification, then you should consider
the second charge. All right, we don't know what they
were found, but they come back and say we can't
(11:57):
reach a decision on the first charge. But what should
have happened right then, and there was a mistrial should
have been declared. Now what Alvin Bragg and his prosecutor
we're thinking was okay, well, that means more than likely
there's somebody back there who thinks that he was not justified.
So we don't talk this judge into letting him go
(12:19):
back and consider count two. They should never have done that,
and there's no precedent for it, and they were banking
on that was the case, and turns out the jury
did not that. They didn't buy it. We don't know
why because I hadn't seen anybody interview, any juror interviewed
as to why they reached that decision. But they gambled
(12:40):
big and lost. You can't go back and retry him. Now,
it's double jeopardy because jeopardy attaches in a jury trial.
Once a jury is sworn, and if the case is
dismissed during that then it's done.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
But the civil he still has to worry about a
civil case.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
He does have to worry about a civil case. But
I don't I think this verdict is gonna go a
long way towards resolving that. I mean, you got a
lot of aspects in that civil case. One, I don't
know what damages the dad has the dad. He wasn't
living with his dad, He wasn't providing support for his dad.
As far as we can tell, his dad wasn't in
his life for the past five or six years. Uh,
(13:19):
the guy had been any sustenance that he had had
come from the government. They'd actually put the guy up
in a home that he left. And uh, I don't
I don't know what damages.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
When you when you were filing a wrongful death lawsuit
or you're trying to recover damages. What are they based
that on?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Well, a lot of things. Uh. One is who's filing
the suit. So if it's the dad saying, look, I'm
suing for what they call him the laws something called
lost consortion that you know, love and affection, the things
that that that my child would have given me throughout
the life. So you can put a price on that.
If it's the estates suing, then you're gonna okay, Well,
what what would this guy be worth over the course
(14:00):
of a lifetime. You look at his life expectancy, what
goes into that? I mean, this guy was a drug addict,
he had all kind of health issues. As a negative
number there, it was probably a negative number.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I mean what if it were children.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Well, if you look at a child, then you say, okay,
it's kind of like, what what are the circumstances and
that's a jury question. You say, Okay, this guy born,
you know, got a mom and a dad, he's going
to school. You know, what's his life expectancy? And it's
kind of speculative because you know what, if it's a
guy that's you know, living in a homeless encampment, what
(14:34):
are the chances that he's going to be a billionaire?
Uh you know, all those things going and you argue
about that and uh so, but you you generally take
a look at the life expectancy of somebody, and that's
on an actual aerial table that insurances companies use when
they decide what to charge you for life insurance. Kind
(14:55):
of it's very similar to when if you go by
life insurance and they look at you and say, all right,
well you're in good health or you know my case,
they take your blood and they say, no, you know
you're already don't qualify. You don't qualify because you've got
more alcohol than blood and.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Got too much blood alcohol, too much.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Blood, and uh so, yeah, that's that's how you determine that.
It's basically a life expectancy equation.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, so then that's but aren't there other facets of
that like the mental side of it. You know, there's
you know, so if I you know this pain and suffering,
not just what a punitive damages on top.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Of well you yeah, interesting question. Punitive damages are awarded
when uh there is you can sue for punitive damages
for an intentional act. So whether they're gonna have to,
they're gonna and in Florida, a judge has to you
have to follow abotion to get punitive damages approved, and
(16:01):
you have to be able to letge these facts and
show evidence to support those facts before a judge will
even let peanit of the issue of punity damages go.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Let's just say, let's just say, for instance, maybe there
was a gun manufacturer that had a problem with their
guns going off, and there had been numerous people hurt
by these guns, and the gun company has done nothing
to correct the problem. They're probably looking at punitive damages
along the way somewhere.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Okay, So the case in point, the probably best example
punity damage awards the Ford Pinto.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay, remember the Ford Pinca when you get even.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Oh, I saw the coolest picture online the other day
that had a board pinto with flames starting at the
back bump or door, get forward, reverse flames is going fast?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I mean, what is that movie topped gu or
was it Naked Gun?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Naked Gun?
Speaker 4 (16:52):
There where they tapped the pinto from behind? It goes
so yeah, so four penna. They they had taken the
gas tank and put it outside the frame, you know,
I don't know. Yeah, the genius had figured that out,
but they knew it was a problem. But they did
had their bean counter and he's like, all right, it's
(17:12):
gonna cost this X amount of money to fix the problem.
That's not worth it. And then people start dying because
they get rear ended and the car blows up the plane.
If in that case was able to show that that
had happened, that they knew that this it was entirely
(17:33):
foreseeable that this would lead to somebody's death. They knew it.
They didn't do anything to fix it. They just decided
they'd roll the dice. Punitive damages conduct that is outrageous,
and everybody would say that's outrageous and an intentional tortue. Well,
and battery, you know, is it not only is battery
a crime, it can be a torque, which is a
(17:53):
civil wrong not to be confused with tart.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Which you in the would you pop in the which you.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Pop in the toastery? This is a tort o r T.
And that that is a civil wrong. That's that's what
when when you hear Morgan and Morgan or whatever. You
know you've been injured in a car accident, somebody has
committed a tort against that injured party, that that person
is referred to in the law as the tort. Okay,
(18:22):
so you know you tort you Uh, that's that's the
guy who committed the civil wrong. That's the defendant in
the civil cases. Plain if and defendant versus in criminal law,
you have state and defending.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, I have a question. Go ahead the January sixth, guys,
if they get if it proves to be.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
That you're talking about the FBI informants, so you're talking
about the other all of it.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I'm talking about the people they put in jail and
they putting their foot up on Chancy Pelosi's desk, and
they're can they sue? No, that ain't right, that don't
seem right.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
What would they be able to sue for the government
for doing that?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All? Right?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Now? The government convicted him. What you're talking about is
something completely different, which is a malicious prosecution suit. And
in order to survive one of those, you've got to
show that there was no probable cause for the arrest,
all right, not that you were taking a trial and
found not guilty. You don't get to sue just because
you were found not guilty. You've got to show that
(19:20):
law enforcement had no probable cause to make the arrest. Now,
what is probable cause In Layman's terms, it means more
likely than not. That is a much lower standard than
proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you know, these guys
that get arrested based on cop you know sees you
and the guys in the back of the cop guard
and you're gonna hear from my lawyer, will You're not
(19:41):
gonna hear from me unless the cop doesn't have probable
cause to arrest the guy. That's the standard for a
wrongful arrest malicious prosecution lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So when these cases are tried and there's an award,
how much do the attorneys get?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Typically in Florida, and this is pretty much universal throughout
the country. In Florida, a lawyer will take thirty three
and a third percent of a settlement if he's able
to settle it without having to file a complaint and
go to litigation. Once he files a complaint, you're in litigation,
(20:22):
and that's usually the fee jumps to forty percent. Now,
there can be a higher fee in certain instances where
if a lawyer can show, look, I've got expertise in
this particular area of tort law, like, for instance, a
bad faith insurance claim, which is a very complicated issue
(20:45):
in tort law and lawyer maybe or a complex medical
malpractice case, because those can get very complicated. A lawyer
can charge more as long as it's disclosed that he's
doing that. The client science a separate agreement. And I've
never done it. I mean I've always.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Well, you charged on how long it takes you to
catch the ambulance.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean if it's you know, if I, if I,
if my heart rate gets above eighty miles eighty eighty
beats per second chasing.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
The amber minute quarter mile of this, it's going.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
To seventy five percent. It's whatever the heart beats per
minut It is the percentage I get chasing the ambulance.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So do you think I mean so now that Daniel
Penny back to Daniel Penny and what we started all this.
Now that he's he's clear of all criminals, trusts here done,
he can't go back and get charged again, double jeopardy.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
He's not making it a separate charge just based on
that incident, either because it arose out of the same
transaction or set back.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So now the hurdle he's got to get over is
this guy's father coming out of coming out of the
woodwork and suing him for the wrongful death of his son.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And we all know what a crazy New York jury
will do, I.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Mean, right, and that is entirely up to the jury
and civil cases are correct me if I'm wrong, decided
by a scintilla of the evidence, which is.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
They're decided by something called a preponderant.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Okay, which is, but it's still just it's a smaller amount.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That is, a hair above fifty percent of the evidence.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So that's how you like, it's more likely than not.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
It's more than probable cause, more than probable cause, but
less and proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, So it's just a little bit more, which is
why we see O. J. Simpson get off on a
murder charge and get found by civily libel civil cases.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You can bring stuff up you wouldn't be able to
bring up.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
In the correct you can you can't. There's there are
things you can bring.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Up, which is why we recommend that you get something
like right the Bear and have some prefabe legal. We'll
be back in just a minute.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
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visit the website southsidemore dot com. And we're back. So
we went into the break and we started talking about
some of the differences between state and federal courts and
(23:43):
the January sixth dependents and things like that, some interesting conversations.
I kind of wanted to rehash it a little bit,
starting with Paul. You mentioned the January six folks that
you know, they were They were maliciously prosecuted for the
most part.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
However, yeah, they the most part. They pled guilty to
what they're charged with. The question Paul asked was, well,
can they bring a malicious prosecution lawsuit or wrongful prosecution?
And no, they can't because of the standard they got.
You know, we talked about that in the last segment
of the probable cost standard, but even more so. And
(24:19):
he said, but if their pardon, what doesn't that make
a difference. No, it doesn't, because it doesn't change the
fact that they pled guilty. And if you plead guilty
in federal court, you you have to answer a lot
of questions before a judge will accept that plea. It's
called a plea colloquy. In state court, they go much shorter,
takes five minutes sometimes less to do a plea colloquy.
(24:41):
Federal court we're talking about thirty sometimes forty five minutes,
and judge essentially has you admit to every aspect of
the crime that is charged. And one of the last
questions he'll ask before he accepts the plea is okay,
are you pleading guilty because you are guilty. So every
one of these people who pled guilty in federal court
(25:02):
is admitted to doing what the government charged them, what
the government charge.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Them with, and they probably admitted to it. Yes, yes,
I unlawfully entered, Yes I went in there. Yes, yes
I put my foot on her desk, and yes I
tore papers up.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But you see those security officers there waving them in.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I get it. But yeah, that's that's if they'd gone
to trial. Different story now that some of the folks
who went to trial, they may have some they may
have something there because now that it's come out that
wait a minute, there was all this evidence out there
that was not disclosed, and.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
There were dozens of FBI in the crowd and all
that stuff can come out in a trial. But if
you once you plead guilty, you're done.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
You're done. You wave the right to appeal anything, you
wave the right to go back and address the evidence.
You're done.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
So the question is you ever get pulled by the
police or dealing with stuff? Call Fred first, Yeah, say nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Don't say any rest number one, don't say nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
That sounds like to me, that's what you did.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
And that's another thing that Daniel Penny. I mean, you
know this guy, he didn't even know that Jordan Neely
was dead, and so he agrees to go talk to
the police. And they're being as jovial as they can be.
And I'm telling you, when the police interrogate you, they
don't sit you down in a room with a light
shining on you, row beat you with you know, they
(26:28):
they're trained to do this. They they will buddy up
to you and make you think you're they're best friends.
And then and it's going to call you mama. Yeah,
it's all that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And it's a sneaky process. I can remember. The worst
interview I ever conducted as far as how it affected me,
was excuse me was talking to a stepfather who had
molested his eight year old step daughter, and I had
to convince him that I understood that it was okay
because she came on to him and I understood because
(27:01):
that was his point was somebody I didn't initiate it.
And I'm going, I understand, blah blah blah blah blah.
And the interview he goes, he goes, He goes, uh,
why sure, I'm glad you understand, And I said, I
appreciate your confession. You sorry, piece of blankety blank black blank.
I hope you die in prison. About two years later,
somebody killed him, and that was unfortunate for I guess
(27:22):
him on some level. But I think justice was served.
It took me a while. That's the I still steel
dirty from I mean, I had to take a long
shower when I got out of there to get all
the nastiness off of me. I hated and and and
but I would I would lie through my teeth in
an interview because you can, you can, you know you can't.
(27:42):
I don't think you can make promises and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I can't make promises, but but.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I can certainly let them know I understand why did it.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I'll never forget it was a prosecutor. Uh, brand new
baby baby lawyer, very naive law enforcement. And uh they
had some prisoner at the jail them they want to
be come out and witnesses because they were getting ready
to do something may be questionable. And so I got
wall book and you know, go out there with the
cops and I'm watching through the little window there and
(28:14):
one of the stage interury investigators took a file, put
a bunch of stuff in it and they wrote the guy's.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Name on it, had nothing to do with the case,
nothing to.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Do with the case, and laid it down, said we've
been watching you for a long time, son, and got
it completely legal.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We'll be right back. Are you looking for a place
to buy quality shoes but want to work with a
local small business that greets you like a friend and
still knows what they're doing. I'm J. D. Johnson. Both
Charlie and I use the Shoe Box for all of
our work boots, casual shoes, and shirt.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Jeff W. Weldon runs a great store that carries men's, women's,
and children's shoes and a number of major brands. They
know how to fit shoes properly and can even fit
you in orthotics to make great shoes fit even better.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
If you see us, we're probably wearing a car heart
shirt and bordered by Jeff and shoes from there as well.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
It look cad at twenty eight twenty South and Road
Street just north of the Fairgrounds. Tell them we said hello, Hey,
it's Charlie and Jedd from Talent. Do you have residential
or commercial roofing needs? What about a bathroom or kitchen remodel?
How about commercial construction?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
If you do, call our good friend Travis Parkman at
Teespark Enterprises. They do roof replacements, roof repair, and new controction.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Travis does commercial and residential work. Has come to my
rescue on more than one occasion, so I trust him
to get it right. Find him at t Spark Construction
dot com or call him at eight five O seven
sixty six thirteen forty. And we're back. So we we
(29:42):
Frid's got a story, we got it's on this, we
got carried. We're we're going to roll now roll the dice.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So we're talking on the break about you know, things
cops do, which I mean, so we can talk about
things cops do in order to get criminal defendants who talk,
and there's another reason why she never talked and to confess.
So there's this This actually happened. It wasn't in Leon County.
(30:12):
But the cops had got this guy for I don't
know what the charge was. They bring him in and
they had just gotten a Xerox machine at the police department,
and so they tell the guy, they say, okay, we
got this brand new light detector test and we're gonna
we're gonna hook you up to it and see whether
(30:34):
or not you're telling the truth. Well, they knew he's lying,
so they got a pair of jumper cables. They hooked
it up to a colander and then just hooked the
other end up to the plastic machine. They wrote on
a piece of paper in the Xerox man it stuck
it on the Xerox machine, and it said he is lying.
And so they asked the guy a question and they say,
all right, let's see what the light detector says. They
presses the copy button, says hear you lying boy. You know.
(31:00):
Guy eventually confesses and that case actually went to court.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That one got thrown out. I'm assuming that did not really.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
It did not and that's what one of those.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Because the jury was too busy laughing. This idiot belongs
in prison.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
But you know, the judge's opinion went through great detail.
But I guess because it's the dog on funny, you know,
good and well the judge got that and they were like.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I heard it.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
You can't make this up.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I heard a story when I was a kid, and
it's been a long time ago, so you're probably we're
probably talking forty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Forty years This is a while back.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
In Gaston County with the use of an ever ready
flashlight and it's gonna blink when you tell a lie.
And I think that the I think that the sheriff
at the time, who shall remain nameless, but everybody my
age or older will figure out who that is in
Gaston County would push the little the little blinky button
on the.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Lines you something he would do.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Got it, ain't got a confession out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Well, if you're if you're innocent, you don't off for crape,
that's correct. And if you're stupid enough to fall for
crap like that, then you probably were gonna get caught
some other way. In Here's the thing is I worked
a lot of robberies, bank robberies, store right when I
was in that robbery unit for like three and a
half years. Hush dog, she wants to go back out again.
(32:19):
The uh, we didn't catch the smart ones. There wasn't
a whole lot of smart ones to start with. Okay,
I mean it just like.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Robber saying, it's not like the movies where they plan
these things for now.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We call time.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Every bank robbery we had during my three and a
half years and the Robbery Task Force, we called every
single one of them. One of them was because he
was wearing He got caught in Tampa and uh wearing
wearing the same camouflaged jacket that came in on property.
We put out a put out a BOLO state wide
intel bulletin saying, hey we got a white male robbed
(32:54):
a bank. Uh came in. This is what he did.
He was wearing a camouflage jacket. Well, they had arrest
somebody for robbing a store. I think it was a
Hooters or something restaurant down in Tampa. And so he
says he's so the detective said, well, he was wearing
a camouflage jacket when we picked him up. And we
(33:16):
have a we have a Soso case here, and I said, well,
let me come down take a look, and went down there,
said show me the jacket, and I pull out the
surveillance photo and I look at his jacket. You know
when you cut camouflage off of a big rim of
cloth military woodland cam Woodland cameo, it's like a fingerprint.
It's like a fingerprint because there's only so many times
(33:37):
that in that when they build that garment, that the
splotches are going to line up the same. And uh,
we were able to we were able to show. I
showed him the pictures and I said, I got you
right here, and that's yours, because I got him to
say ahead of time, you know, was that the jacket
you were wearing? Yeah, that's mine. Okay, how long you
had that thing? Man? I used to get one like
(33:58):
that from the Army Navy store when I was a kid.
I'd go up there and buy stuff. You just carry
on this conversation and he's talking to you, and he go, okay, so, so,
uh is this jacket right here? It's a picture of
your jacket. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Why And I said,
because this is the same jacket in this picture in
the bank and Tyler hassee when you drive rob Tallahasse
State Bank, and he's like, yeah, man, that's me, you know.
(34:22):
And that's how you get people to confess a lot
of times is you have to get past the whole
Miranda thing. You gotta you kind of you know, you
gotta read Miranda, and you gotta get him to sign away,
and you got to get him to do all that.
But once you get but then you it's like, all right, man,
we got that out the way. So so where are
you from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
That is, if if if you hear a cop read
you your Miranda rights, it's time to use them.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, you need to shut up.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Out of all the people y'all arrested, how many times
they go and I'm saying nothing, I talk about attorney that.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
More rare than you think.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
It's very rare. And typically it's when they think you
got them, you back them in want and they go,
oh man, I'm I'm now man, I'm gonna have to
because they because they see that. I think, in my opinion,
when they invoke their rights, they're admitting to you that
they're guilty, because why would they invoke their rights if
(35:15):
they weren't guilty, because if you don't have anything to hide,
you know, when you say an interview, hey man, I
know you don't have anything to hide from. We just
got to get through this thing and make sure. I'm
sure there's an ext but there's a there's a logical
explanation for why you know, we're sitting here having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
They're having this conversation, and you say, that's when you
call ask for the train.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
But the point is is if you if you harm
somebody in a self defense situation and they start asking
you questions, you really need to be careful what you say.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
That's the Yeah. So a couple of weeks ago, I
had a I don't want to identify the case, but.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Don't don't don't get this barred over radio.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Show, right, So typically you know, if cop caused me
once talk my cal Nope, not gonna do it. Yeah,
we'll see in court. I actually escorted a client to
the State Attorney's office last week and gave an interview
with my client ask away. In that case, I knew
(36:17):
all of I've completed the discovery process. I knew from
the get go what my client had said, but I
wanted to make sure there wasn't anything else out there
that contradicted what he said. I did that, and there
isn't anything else out there that contradicted what he said.
So I said, okay, let's go tell them what happened.
And he had a legitimate explanation, and so I prepared
(36:40):
him for the interview. He didn't lie, and they lied
when he first came to see me. But I had
the benefit of knowing what they know. If you are
arrested or you're being investigated, that law enforcement officer is
not going to tell you what he knows. He's not
going to confront you with all of the evidence and say, Okay,
(37:00):
here's everything we've got, Now what do you have to
say about this. They're't gonna do that. A lot of times,
they're going to ask you questions they already know the
answers to, and you don't know what those questions are,
and if you say something that contradicts what they have,
they're they're going to automatically assume you're guilty of what
it is you're you're doing, So you don't you don't
(37:22):
ever talk to the police without a lawyer about conduct
that you are accused of or things that you are
accused of. It's just not I couldn't advise anybody, and
it'd be malpracticed for me to buy somebody otherwise.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I can. Yeah, I concur, I concur I was. I
remember one where we had a videotape and we had
a very very weak case on a robbery of a hotel.
And the guy came in and he touched he came
in and he didn't I remember the descriptions. There's two
guys by bly. One came in, jumped over the county.
(38:01):
The other one came in, opened the door, put his
hand right there. I said, all right, was he wearing gloves?
Looked at the video, was not wearing gloves, no fingerprints,
but he put his hand right there and he held
the door open while the other guy jumped behind the
count got stuff left. I forget how we got the information,
but when it was we got this kid in. We
(38:22):
had no idea who the other guy was, but we
felt like this kid he was sort of he watched
the body lane, but he was sort of a follower,
and most of these robberies were his string of robberies
was working. Was one guy leading, one guy following and
he made a statement and called him D. Hey, you
know hold the door D, and so just get the
kid was known by D on the streets. A cold interview.
(38:45):
Brought him in and said, amen, you know read him
as rights and said, you know, although you're free to
go at any time, still I don't want to read
your rights because I want to be fair to you.
And we get in there and I said the man,
I'm pretty sure this was you. This is a date
the time it came in. Got your handprint off the
window with the back door. When you when your buddy
(39:05):
said hold the door, D, you held it with an
ungloved hand. We got your fingerprint, got your dead to rights.
Well you want to tell me, May I do anything
I can to help you, but you got to you
got to come clean, all right. This name is so
and so and so and so and so and so.
We were about a dozen and a half robberies. We
were able to put on that other guy and I
went to court and kept that fell out of prison
(39:26):
on that one. I think you know his attorney.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1 (40:03):
Remember FDI se Hey, it's Charlie and JD from Talent
Tactical Outfitters. Are you in the market for a firearm?
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How about Holster's optics, cleaning gear or apparel.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
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advice and a one of a kind try before you
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Speaker 3 (40:18):
We can even help you build your own Talent tac
ops AR fifteen from our huge selection of parts in
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Speaker 1 (40:24):
You can build a nine millimeter for personal defense or
a larger caliber hunting rifle with optics. It's all up
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midway right off Ien or call us at five nine
seven seventy five point fifty. It's a driving.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
I'm so hug lining.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
See this is the segment four. So we'll take a
little bit about fishing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, officer, Well, I tell you the U as y'all
know the fisher fighting. This is a picture of one
of the big crop that we caught yesterday. If y'all
can see it's a crappy.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, I think that thing is.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
It was a grouper.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
We caught several of them, about twenty of them.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
That big.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
That already slab. That's a fish of many names. That's
a slab of cycle.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You want to put it on. But I was out
mister Robert Willis and been town was going to go.
He lives on across the lake. Picked him up over
at Sibley's Land and you know what that's that JD
and went out there and my gosh, we caught it
almost actually brought what I want to show you.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
I don't know if if if we go fishing on
a charter, will you we get to keep this thing?
Speaker 3 (41:32):
You get to fry that.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, that's the best eating fish.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
You can't keep bass, but you'd keep them.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
I want to keep the ba.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But what we were catching those on is this right here.
I'm gonna hold it up. A jig head eight thounced
jig head and a little well that broke off a
little Berkeley, I mean a Bobby Garland baby shad. Remember
he was doing that. Yeah, yeah, I want to show
y'all something I've done. Usually it's a little that's mature fluke.
(42:02):
That's right, putting this on the jighead. I don't catch
two or three cropping per bait, but I take a
staple and add it right here as a keeper. Nine
catch ten to twelve on it.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
But do you use a beetle spin on that?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No? No, just and tie the line right here, and
I rig it up just like this.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Are you fishing vertical for those? Pretty much casting casting
out and pull.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Out my guys, I'm seeing them on live scope, so
I'm casting to them. But that's how you rig it
and putting that little keeper on there. So just it's
just like that.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And people people in our radio audience are going, what
is he doing?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I'm trying to.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Why you need to watch it?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
You rigging to pull it off head with what is
that thing called?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
This is a this is this jighead is just a
one to eight thounced ball head jighead.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
But the actual actual.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Bait is a Bobby Garland baby chad.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
He's got to pick dure of a crappy on it,
which I would call a perchase.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
It's a it's a Fluke. It's a little small Fluke style.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But yeah, it's inch and a half inch and three
quarters and buying Walmart. What's so cool about it? Putting
that little keeper on there. Look out, it'll break before
it comes off, which you know, if I can catch
ten fish per bait versus three, i's say some money, brother,
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I have an in the business of doing it.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Yes, sir, I have a question to ask you. I
was thinking about it earlier this week. What is your
take on these these sense that you can spray on
this this stuff here? What what's what's your.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I like to think that I'm good enough. I don't
have to have it, but I've learned sometimes it makes
a difference. I use Berkeley Gulp Alive of Shad mental formula.
And when when they start off, you throw it out
there and you watching your bait fall and they come
out there in a crappie. They got very good eyesight.
They'll come out there and they'll it's lightly. They come
up there and just smell it. Sometimes they'll get it
(43:59):
and you don't even feel it. You know, it's amazing.
But then I'll put some of that on there, and
then then they thump it. You know what I mean,
it seems like it does make a difference.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It's so you use it Berkeley.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It's called Berkeley gulp.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
I got, Okay, I don't what a Berkeley gulp is.
But since this is shad, they make a shady, make shad, crawfish, garlic,
all different kinds about shrimp.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Trump. Make sure they make a dra card noir.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I don't know if they can pull. But the other now,
all this we did catch.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Some stumer number five and deep water get.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I like to think I didn't need sent back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
But the other day, this is what we call. This
is what you call an Alabama rig. Now I know
this thing has been beat up.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I mean it's like a Christmas tree on him.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
An Alabama called Alabama rig umbrella rig.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Because of family trees and the state line straight line.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
For those on the radio rig. He's got five different wires,
one in the middle with a with a jig head
and it.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Looks like an umbrella that you took the cloth off tho.
You got some arms out there, and each arm's gotta.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Got snag everything in the lake on that thing.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And that will happen if you if you don't go
at the right speed with it. But man, I tell
you what.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And it's also not uncommon to catch more than one
fish at a time.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Yes, you're catching hybrids on that.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I'm catching hybrids on that. What you also catch strippers
on Yes, this would wear you out if you had
to cast it. So I throw it out about forty yards,
line out in this troll how fast going at a
certain speed, and then when they hit it, I have
to have the drag set so loose. When they hit it,
they'll jerk this thing out of your hand.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So that's that's simulating a school school shat exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Now the other day when I had these guys out
were's catching them, I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull
over like I was talking.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
To you JD earlier, that you can snag you something.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But I pulled up where these fish were out, these
hybrids and stripers, and I started seeing them on four faces.
So they were just sitting there and I thought maybe
these are bass. I threw out there and watched my
bait fall down to the fish hit it in a
five pound hybrid and I usually moving. Yes, you can
keep those all right, but JD. Game me made me
(46:17):
think a hybrid and a is a crossing a striper
and a white bass. So maybe those fish are just
acting more like a white white bass. That was cool.
I've never called like that. We're just picking them off
them guys end up catching like ten like that. It
was cool.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
So the hybrids, they released those into the lake. Yes, okay,
they don't actually breathe they okay, so they're they're like.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
A mule, exactly like a mule. It is a it
is a cross between a between the stripe bass and a.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
White bast This year, I've noticed the best days. I
think we caught twenty five that day, but it was cloudy, windy,
little spitz of rain. It's just then yesterday I went
to the same place. Fish still there, just not biting
his grass of bright.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
And see the official name of what we call hybrid
as a sunshine bass. Yeah, and they were developed down here.
I remember as a as a as a ute, uh,
the Game and Fish Commission would have big white bass
tournaments on on on APLETs Cola River and we would
go down there and catch white bass and you keep
them alive and you uh, you turn them into.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
F W C and they send them to Wuhan and
they would well.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
You would, you would, you would, you would keep them alive.
They warn them alive and you turn them into f
w C. And they would give you prizes for the
most you know, the biggest fish, most fish whatever. F
w C would actually put these tournaments on and for
kids it was it was a free tournament and they
would give you They would get donations and give you gifts,
you know, fish and tackle or whatever else for for
participating in the tournament and giving them fish. Well, they
(47:45):
would take those fish and use the use the eggs
or the of the sperm from the fish to make
to make the Sunshine bass. And they're delicious to eat there.
It's a renewable resource. They fight like no other fish
in fresh water. It is like, I mean, they pull
like nothing else. They outclass everything in pound pounds in fresh.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Water and j D. The other day, I was throwing
ten pound test line with eight pound leaders here. It
was taken ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
The leaders on these.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah, they have a big, wide flat tail and man
they can they can absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
And I tell you nothing. When I was showing these
guys and a lot of people don't know this but
the gill play that cuts you, you'll need to still.
I told them, I said, you have to hold him
in the mouth if you grab right here. If he
gives a shake and he grabbed me, we're just gonna
go on in and take you to the hospitals and
get stitches. Okay, I won't touch you.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Said you're you are trolling for this?
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yes, trolled, and then we just caught them in your server,
we call so.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
When we don't grab a hybrid by the gills ever
back every all right?
Speaker 4 (48:52):
So but when you when you cat did you cast
the Alabama rig?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
We caught a couple like that, but most of them
we were trolling, all right, So let us to start
off with a speed.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
And he ain't gonna tell you.
Speaker 4 (49:03):
I know I kind of figured that out.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Fast enough to keep it from getting hung up in that.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Is there a lure that you can test and checks?
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
You could take this right here, rattle traps.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
This is what I did the other day. Take this off.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Okay, so you take one of those.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Ship swim swim jigs now through that.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
And so you're throwing just a look. So what we're
looking at is sort of like a like a gulf
fresh water.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
That's all it is. This is an eighth ounce head.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
It's no different than a trout rigged right.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
They'll hit rattle traps, they'll have any kind of you
get them in the right mood, they'll hit anything that moves.
There's a very aggressive fish there.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
You go.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Fred. Now what's fun is in the warmer weather and
when it starts to warm up they'll start schooling on
the top water and you can catchtrol baits and holding
fun stuff in the river.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I want to let people know if anybody wants to
do some fishing coming up. We got Christmas coming up.
Great stocking scuffer. They can give me a call or
at eight five o two six four seventy five three
four reach out to me on Facebook Captain Paul tar Fishing.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
So you can have Paul stuffed in your stocking.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, we wan a fishing trip, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
So why while you're talking about that. Also for Christmas
coming up, you can buy your love to one or
somebody that you care about, or somebody in your business
or employees. You can buy membership to this range. You
can come in and buy gift cards.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Go ahead on I want to talk about that. My
found out my my daughter's getting a pistol, and I
want to see about getting her membership here. If she's
going to have a glock, she needs to be properly taught.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
She needs some training, and she needs, you know, an
access to the range. We'll talk about that after the show,
but just keep in mind that you know, you can
do a range renewal for somebody gift cards. It's it's
better to buy a gift card for a gun than
to buy an actual gun. But you but you can.
You can, in fact, buy a firearm as a gift. Uh,
(51:00):
you don't. That's not a strong purchase. So you can
come in and buy your wife or kid a firearm
as a gift. What you can't do is take money
from somebody, come in and buy a gun for them
and use their money or expect to get paid back
later on. But yeah, I mean, there's a there's a
plethora of opportunities for you to get stocking stuffers from
all that stuff right out here to range. So hopefully
(51:20):
we'll see you guys soon at one of our locations.
And welcome to the Town Outdoor Show.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Charlie, I'm Captain Paul Tarr, and I'm Grant.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
All right, well, I love this weather. It's been nice.
It's been nice. Man. That's up and this is there
on Saturday, this first day of rifle season over my
way in my d m U warm up. Yeah, well
that's all right. The deer live there year around. But
(00:33):
I just like I like it when it's cold us.
I've been been busy trying to get everything ready. But
I think I got all the corns. The grazing's up
and everything's there. But man, I just hadn't seen a
whole lot of bucks. We started seeing a few bachelor groups.
Still we're so far behind on the rut schedule from
where j D you know, all y'all hunt.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My rut's over. I'm getting the multiple rack bucks and
eating together again already.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Where we're at, we ain't even started. I don't understand
how that works. Hour and a half.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
You're around your house in Mitchell County, Georgia, where I
hunt right now, the brut's about to start or should
be starting really quick, and like Grady and Thomas County South,
but I'm a little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Further north started here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, I've had an eight point day before yesterday morning.
I had to stop three different times on the street
I live on to let him chase a dough in
front of the truck, and back and forth and back
and forth. It took me five minutes to get off
of my street.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I mean, I had to threat a SAX harassment suit
on one in my backyard the other day because he
was just getting out of hand.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Uh no, My rut is pretty much over in Mitchell County,
but I'm hunting a place in Grady County now and
it's just getting started, so you know. And then Tallahassee's
kind of on the same schedule as South Georgia because
we're not that far.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Over there.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, you're your brut is February. Yeah, I remember killing
a deer at your place over there years ago, Charlie
in February. The second that was absolutely full full born.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Root, almost kind of that endo Gaston County, I guess
the west end of Gaston County not a whole lot
different than where he is.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It takes a while for you know, we're a little
slower over there coming around here, you know, in Gason
County deer. You know they getting up with j D
used to come over from Gaston County to Jackson County
chasing one when he was in high school and college
and all too. You know, they read a little singers do.
We were like, what are they doing over here? They
coming over here forrett the cute ones, and.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Hey, y'all have to I tell you what man per
per capita. Jackson County had some of the prettiest women
when I was when I was, when I was but
a teenager, late teenager, early twenty they I was, I'm
pretty women and pretty girls in Jackson.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
There's some good looking women over there. They get a
little mean as they get older. But you know I
had to come in Leon County and get me one
take her back home.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I ain't sure you didn't get a mean when I
kind of.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Got that didn't work out well that way. But she's
she keeps me straight. That's why That's why I think,
that's why we've been together for twenty four years, is because,
uh she she's mean enough to keep me in line.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I had to go to Alabama to.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Preach your daughters, want them one of them where where
her family probably said you know, you should have charity
in your heart. You need to earn your way into heaven.
And there's your opportunity right there. If you if you can,
if you can, if you can, if you can complete
this quest one of the video games. You know, here's
(03:35):
your challenge.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Little do they know?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Uh huh uh. At least she's got she she got.
She got a new name on her phone for from
from watching Yellow Yelloustone today.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, apparently don't.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You can't say it.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm not, but apparently you know Jamie, the the kind
of the the slimy brother.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And the attorney.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, of course calls his sister, and that the name
is shown on the screen as to what his sister
calls him. And that's now become my name and my
wife's phone.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
That is funny. I don't look at my I don't.
I don't look at I don't call my wife's phone
when it's in the same room, and I don't look
at the caller. I just don't. I don't want to know.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
When she calls me. I've got a separate ring tune.
It's that that ship alarm, warning wife, warning wife. Well,
I know if I'm not doing what I'm supposed to
go to the other room or make sure I'm not
overheard doing whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Does she know that's her ringtone?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
She does?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, what does want? Does she listen to the show?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Okay, you really had, I'm not gonna listen to you.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Quit listening to.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's what I get.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I think mine actually listens more now than she ever has.
I don't really know why, but uh, maybe boredom.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Who knows.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I mean people, I'm learning more and more people are
listening to this show that I never thought listen to
this show. And now I'm thinking about going back and
trying to delete some of the episodes.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm just gonna do a Fred out take and do
all the stuff that you wouldn't want anybody to know,
and I hold you hostage.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Stuff that we have to listen to, whether we want
to or not.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, lord, if I did an outtake from the breaks,
oh boy, just just the breaks.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
No, I'd be disbarred.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well we lose the show.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
That would be like ethics is brought up the next day.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's all in good fun, though, Speaking of all of
your stuff, you mentioned something for the show about the.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Any Daniel pennything that Judge up there Wiley something or another,
Maxwell E.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Cody, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That was the most bizarre turn of events I've ever seen.
Apparently there wasn't any precedent for it because the defense
lawyers the idea that the dury can come back hung
on count one.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
So then you.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
And so I understand when you're dealing with with homicide
or act battery or you know, a crime against a person.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So Daniel Penny, for the people that are not following
the news constantly, was the former marine on.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Bus I think subway subway.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
He was on a subway and there was a gentleman
who was apparently mentally ill. He wasn't he wasn't he
wasn't acting right. And they've had a lot of violence
on the subway. They've had people pushed into subways, put.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know, much threatened to kill everybody on the right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
He was making a bunch of threats and then he's
acting out and Daniel and he tries to restrain him,
or does restrain him and puts him into a choke
cold or if you want to call it, daddy puts
and and there is a technique there that restraint that
is not deadly. Typically depending on how you execute it.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
It was not deadly in this case the.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Way well it wasn't. Yeah, and he didn't kill him,
but later on.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
He's still breathing when the police arrived.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And this happens in custody cases and law enforcement a
lot where people are right there on the edge of
expiring because of drug use, physical ailments. There's a lot
of things can be going on, yeah, and then and
the additional stress could potentially push them over. Nine and
nine of one hundred times it doesn't. But every once
(07:44):
in a blue moon that that person expires later on,
and that's what happened here, is he expired after being restrained.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Correct, So were there's kind of and that's a sub issue.
What he's talking about is a sudden custody yes syndrome.
I mean there's there are two schools of thought on that.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Some experts would say, no, that's not a recognized science.
Some of them would say, yet it is. In this case,
it really wasn't characterized as that it was a totality
of Okay, we had this going, this going, this going,
and this going. It was a multiple multiple things contributed
to his death. And I don't think they proved up
(08:22):
the cause of death, uh, in the case. But that's
not really what the issue was, not where I was
going with it. Anytime you have a homicide, a battery,
and justification ken if asserted. So another self defense is
what we're talking about, a justification. And when self defense
is raised, it sort of shifts the burden to the
(08:43):
prosecution to prove a negative, which is a difficult thing
to do. And you know, and that's we have that
in Florida. It's called change your ground, uh. And so
but there's self defense is and is recognized all fifty states.
So when you have a lesser included offense, in this case,
we had involuntary manslaughter, which is a higher degree of culpability,
(09:05):
almost like a reckless degree of culpability, and then you
had negligent homicide, which is a much lower standard of culpability,
justification can be used to negate both those charges. So
if jury is instructed, if you find that the state
did not prove that Daniel Penny was not justified in
(09:30):
causing the death on count one, which was the manslaughter,
then you're done. You find him not guilty, all right,
And if you find him guilty of homside, then you're done,
stick with that. No, look sorry, we're coming up all great.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, and we'll be back in just we're gonna pick
it right where were They often just the same. Have
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on the web at recon dash restoration dot com. An
(10:52):
we're back. So when we left Fred, we're talking about
to Daniel pennycase and to catch people back up to
where we were quickly. So what happened when the judge
gave the jury instructions they were supposed to have If
they found justification in the first charge, the highest level charge,
then they should have negated the city.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
They should have negated the charge. So that was the
way the instructions read. I went back and looked at
the instructions. So the deal was, if you find he's justified,
then you're done, case closed, not guilty, we all go home.
Because justification applies to both the initial charge and the
lesser included, so just.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
They never should have been sent back to consider.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
This justification on the lower charge. Now, if you found
him guilty of manslaughter or not guilty of manslaughter, or
rather for something other than justification, then you should consider
the second charge. All right, we don't know what they
were found, but they come back and say we can't
(11:57):
reach a decision on the first charge. But what should
have happened right then, and there was a mistrial should
have been declared. Now what Alvin Bragg and his prosecutor
we're thinking was okay, well, that means more than likely
there's somebody back there who thinks that he was not justified.
So we don't talk this judge into letting him go
(12:19):
back and consider count two. They should never have done that,
and there's no precedent for it, and they were banking
on that was the case, and turns out the jury
did not that. They didn't buy it. We don't know
why because I hadn't seen anybody interview, any juror interviewed
as to why they reached that decision. But they gambled
(12:40):
big and lost. You can't go back and retry him. Now,
it's double jeopardy because jeopardy attaches in a jury trial.
Once a jury is sworn, and if the case is
dismissed during that then it's done.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
But the civil he still has to worry about a
civil case.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
He does have to worry about a civil case. But
I don't I think this verdict is gonna go a
long way towards resolving that. I mean, you got a
lot of aspects in that civil case. One, I don't
know what damages the dad has the dad. He wasn't
living with his dad, He wasn't providing support for his dad.
As far as we can tell, his dad wasn't in
his life for the past five or six years. Uh,
(13:19):
the guy had been any sustenance that he had had
come from the government. They'd actually put the guy up
in a home that he left. And uh, I don't
I don't know what damages.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
When you when you were filing a wrongful death lawsuit
or you're trying to recover damages. What are they based
that on?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Well, a lot of things. Uh. One is who's filing
the suit. So if it's the dad saying, look, I'm
suing for what they call him the laws something called
lost consortion that you know, love and affection, the things
that that that my child would have given me throughout
the life. So you can put a price on that.
If it's the estates suing, then you're gonna okay, Well,
what what would this guy be worth over the course
(14:00):
of a lifetime. You look at his life expectancy, what
goes into that? I mean, this guy was a drug addict,
he had all kind of health issues. As a negative
number there, it was probably a negative number.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I mean what if it were children.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Well, if you look at a child, then you say, okay,
it's kind of like, what what are the circumstances and
that's a jury question. You say, Okay, this guy born,
you know, got a mom and a dad, he's going
to school. You know, what's his life expectancy? And it's
kind of speculative because you know what, if it's a
guy that's you know, living in a homeless encampment, what
(14:34):
are the chances that he's going to be a billionaire?
Uh you know, all those things going and you argue
about that and uh so, but you you generally take
a look at the life expectancy of somebody, and that's
on an actual aerial table that insurances companies use when
they decide what to charge you for life insurance. Kind
(14:55):
of it's very similar to when if you go by
life insurance and they look at you and say, all right,
well you're in good health or you know my case,
they take your blood and they say, no, you know
you're already don't qualify. You don't qualify because you've got
more alcohol than blood and.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Got too much blood alcohol, too much.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Blood, and uh so, yeah, that's that's how you determine that.
It's basically a life expectancy equation.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, so then that's but aren't there other facets of
that like the mental side of it. You know, there's
you know, so if I you know this pain and suffering,
not just what a punitive damages on top.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Of well you yeah, interesting question. Punitive damages are awarded
when uh there is you can sue for punitive damages
for an intentional act. So whether they're gonna have to,
they're gonna and in Florida, a judge has to you
have to follow abotion to get punitive damages approved, and
(16:01):
you have to be able to letge these facts and
show evidence to support those facts before a judge will
even let peanit of the issue of punity damages go.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Let's just say, let's just say, for instance, maybe there
was a gun manufacturer that had a problem with their
guns going off, and there had been numerous people hurt
by these guns, and the gun company has done nothing
to correct the problem. They're probably looking at punitive damages
along the way somewhere.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Okay, So the case in point, the probably best example
punity damage awards the Ford Pinto.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Okay, remember the Ford Pinca when you get even.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Oh, I saw the coolest picture online the other day
that had a board pinto with flames starting at the
back bump or door, get forward, reverse flames is going fast?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I mean, what is that movie topped gu or
was it Naked Gun?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Naked Gun?
Speaker 4 (16:52):
There where they tapped the pinto from behind? It goes
so yeah, so four penna. They they had taken the
gas tank and put it outside the frame, you know,
I don't know. Yeah, the genius had figured that out,
but they knew it was a problem. But they did
had their bean counter and he's like, all right, it's
(17:12):
gonna cost this X amount of money to fix the problem.
That's not worth it. And then people start dying because
they get rear ended and the car blows up the plane.
If in that case was able to show that that
had happened, that they knew that this it was entirely
(17:33):
foreseeable that this would lead to somebody's death. They knew it.
They didn't do anything to fix it. They just decided
they'd roll the dice. Punitive damages conduct that is outrageous,
and everybody would say that's outrageous and an intentional tortue. Well,
and battery, you know, is it not only is battery
a crime, it can be a torque, which is a
(17:53):
civil wrong not to be confused with tart.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Which you in the would you pop in the which you.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Pop in the toastery? This is a tort o r T.
And that that is a civil wrong. That's that's what
when when you hear Morgan and Morgan or whatever. You
know you've been injured in a car accident, somebody has
committed a tort against that injured party, that that person
is referred to in the law as the tort. Okay,
(18:22):
so you know you tort you Uh, that's that's the
guy who committed the civil wrong. That's the defendant in
the civil cases. Plain if and defendant versus in criminal law,
you have state and defending.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, I have a question. Go ahead the January sixth, guys,
if they get if it proves to be.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
That you're talking about the FBI informants, so you're talking
about the other all of it.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I'm talking about the people they put in jail and
they putting their foot up on Chancy Pelosi's desk, and
they're can they sue? No, that ain't right, that don't
seem right.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
What would they be able to sue for the government
for doing that?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All? Right?
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Now? The government convicted him. What you're talking about is
something completely different, which is a malicious prosecution suit. And
in order to survive one of those, you've got to
show that there was no probable cause for the arrest,
all right, not that you were taking a trial and
found not guilty. You don't get to sue just because
you were found not guilty. You've got to show that
(19:20):
law enforcement had no probable cause to make the arrest. Now,
what is probable cause In Layman's terms, it means more
likely than not. That is a much lower standard than
proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you know, these guys
that get arrested based on cop you know sees you
and the guys in the back of the cop guard
and you're gonna hear from my lawyer, will You're not
(19:41):
gonna hear from me unless the cop doesn't have probable
cause to arrest the guy. That's the standard for a
wrongful arrest malicious prosecution lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So when these cases are tried and there's an award,
how much do the attorneys get?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Typically in Florida, and this is pretty much universal throughout
the country. In Florida, a lawyer will take thirty three
and a third percent of a settlement if he's able
to settle it without having to file a complaint and
go to litigation. Once he files a complaint, you're in litigation,
(20:22):
and that's usually the fee jumps to forty percent. Now,
there can be a higher fee in certain instances where
if a lawyer can show, look, I've got expertise in
this particular area of tort law, like, for instance, a
bad faith insurance claim, which is a very complicated issue
(20:45):
in tort law and lawyer maybe or a complex medical
malpractice case, because those can get very complicated. A lawyer
can charge more as long as it's disclosed that he's
doing that. The client science a separate agreement. And I've
never done it. I mean I've always.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Well, you charged on how long it takes you to
catch the ambulance.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean if it's you know, if I, if I,
if my heart rate gets above eighty miles eighty eighty
beats per second chasing.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
The amber minute quarter mile of this, it's going.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
To seventy five percent. It's whatever the heart beats per
minut It is the percentage I get chasing the ambulance.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So do you think I mean so now that Daniel
Penny back to Daniel Penny and what we started all this.
Now that he's he's clear of all criminals, trusts here done,
he can't go back and get charged again, double jeopardy.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
He's not making it a separate charge just based on
that incident, either because it arose out of the same
transaction or set back.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So now the hurdle he's got to get over is
this guy's father coming out of coming out of the
woodwork and suing him for the wrongful death of his son.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And we all know what a crazy New York jury
will do, I.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Mean, right, and that is entirely up to the jury
and civil cases are correct me if I'm wrong, decided
by a scintilla of the evidence, which is.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
They're decided by something called a preponderant.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Okay, which is, but it's still just it's a smaller amount.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That is, a hair above fifty percent of the evidence.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So that's how you like, it's more likely than not.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
It's more than probable cause, more than probable cause, but
less and proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, So it's just a little bit more, which is
why we see O. J. Simpson get off on a
murder charge and get found by civily libel civil cases.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You can bring stuff up you wouldn't be able to
bring up.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
In the correct you can you can't. There's there are
things you can bring.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Up, which is why we recommend that you get something
like right the Bear and have some prefabe legal. We'll
be back in just a minute.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Is your back killing you from sitting in an uncomfortable
desk all day? Do you have pain radiating down your
leg or down the arm? Called doctor Joseph Miller, d C.
At the Tallahassee Spine Center and ask about spinal decompression
therapy at eight five zero five eight zero five two
five two.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Are you tired of that chainsaw that never starts when
you need it? Do you spend your whole weekend fighting
your old lawnmower? It doesn't have to be that way.
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If you need parts of service on any of your
(23:22):
outdoor power equipment or it's time to purchase new equipment.
Stop by South Side Mowers at eighteen eighty five South
in Row Street, one mile south of the Capitol, or
visit the website southsidemore dot com. And we're back. So
we went into the break and we started talking about
some of the differences between state and federal courts and
(23:43):
the January sixth dependents and things like that, some interesting conversations.
I kind of wanted to rehash it a little bit,
starting with Paul. You mentioned the January six folks that
you know, they were They were maliciously prosecuted for the
most part.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
However, yeah, they the most part. They pled guilty to
what they're charged with. The question Paul asked was, well,
can they bring a malicious prosecution lawsuit or wrongful prosecution?
And no, they can't because of the standard they got.
You know, we talked about that in the last segment
of the probable cost standard, but even more so. And
(24:19):
he said, but if their pardon, what doesn't that make
a difference. No, it doesn't, because it doesn't change the
fact that they pled guilty. And if you plead guilty
in federal court, you you have to answer a lot
of questions before a judge will accept that plea. It's
called a plea colloquy. In state court, they go much shorter,
takes five minutes sometimes less to do a plea colloquy.
(24:41):
Federal court we're talking about thirty sometimes forty five minutes,
and judge essentially has you admit to every aspect of
the crime that is charged. And one of the last
questions he'll ask before he accepts the plea is okay,
are you pleading guilty because you are guilty. So every
one of these people who pled guilty in federal court
(25:02):
is admitted to doing what the government charged them, what
the government charge.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Them with, and they probably admitted to it. Yes, yes,
I unlawfully entered, Yes I went in there. Yes, yes
I put my foot on her desk, and yes I
tore papers up.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
But you see those security officers there waving them in.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I get it. But yeah, that's that's if they'd gone
to trial. Different story now that some of the folks
who went to trial, they may have some they may
have something there because now that it's come out that
wait a minute, there was all this evidence out there
that was not disclosed, and.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
There were dozens of FBI in the crowd and all
that stuff can come out in a trial. But if
you once you plead guilty, you're done.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
You're done. You wave the right to appeal anything, you
wave the right to go back and address the evidence.
You're done.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
So the question is you ever get pulled by the
police or dealing with stuff? Call Fred first, Yeah, say nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Don't say any rest number one, don't say nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
That sounds like to me, that's what you did.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
And that's another thing that Daniel Penny. I mean, you
know this guy, he didn't even know that Jordan Neely
was dead, and so he agrees to go talk to
the police. And they're being as jovial as they can be.
And I'm telling you, when the police interrogate you, they
don't sit you down in a room with a light
shining on you, row beat you with you know, they
(26:28):
they're trained to do this. They they will buddy up
to you and make you think you're they're best friends.
And then and it's going to call you mama. Yeah,
it's all that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And it's a sneaky process. I can remember. The worst
interview I ever conducted as far as how it affected me,
was excuse me was talking to a stepfather who had
molested his eight year old step daughter, and I had
to convince him that I understood that it was okay
because she came on to him and I understood because
(27:01):
that was his point was somebody I didn't initiate it.
And I'm going, I understand, blah blah blah blah blah.
And the interview he goes, he goes, He goes, uh,
why sure, I'm glad you understand, And I said, I
appreciate your confession. You sorry, piece of blankety blank black blank.
I hope you die in prison. About two years later,
somebody killed him, and that was unfortunate for I guess
(27:22):
him on some level. But I think justice was served.
It took me a while. That's the I still steel
dirty from I mean, I had to take a long
shower when I got out of there to get all
the nastiness off of me. I hated and and and
but I would I would lie through my teeth in
an interview because you can, you can, you know you can't.
(27:42):
I don't think you can make promises and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I can't make promises, but but.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I can certainly let them know I understand why did it.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
I'll never forget it was a prosecutor. Uh, brand new
baby baby lawyer, very naive law enforcement. And uh they
had some prisoner at the jail them they want to
be come out and witnesses because they were getting ready
to do something may be questionable. And so I got
wall book and you know, go out there with the
cops and I'm watching through the little window there and
(28:14):
one of the stage interury investigators took a file, put
a bunch of stuff in it and they wrote the guy's.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Name on it, had nothing to do with the case,
nothing to.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Do with the case, and laid it down, said we've
been watching you for a long time, son, and got
it completely legal.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
We'll be right back. Are you looking for a place
to buy quality shoes but want to work with a
local small business that greets you like a friend and
still knows what they're doing. I'm J. D. Johnson. Both
Charlie and I use the Shoe Box for all of
our work boots, casual shoes, and shirt.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Jeff W. Weldon runs a great store that carries men's, women's,
and children's shoes and a number of major brands. They
know how to fit shoes properly and can even fit
you in orthotics to make great shoes fit even better.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
If you see us, we're probably wearing a car heart
shirt and bordered by Jeff and shoes from there as well.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
It look cad at twenty eight twenty South and Road
Street just north of the Fairgrounds. Tell them we said hello, Hey,
it's Charlie and Jedd from Talent. Do you have residential
or commercial roofing needs? What about a bathroom or kitchen remodel?
How about commercial construction?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
If you do, call our good friend Travis Parkman at
Teespark Enterprises. They do roof replacements, roof repair, and new controction.
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Travis does commercial and residential work. Has come to my
rescue on more than one occasion, so I trust him
to get it right. Find him at t Spark Construction
dot com or call him at eight five O seven
sixty six thirteen forty. And we're back. So we we
(29:42):
Frid's got a story, we got it's on this, we
got carried. We're we're going to roll now roll the dice.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So we're talking on the break about you know, things
cops do, which I mean, so we can talk about
things cops do in order to get criminal defendants who talk,
and there's another reason why she never talked and to confess.
So there's this This actually happened. It wasn't in Leon County.
(30:12):
But the cops had got this guy for I don't
know what the charge was. They bring him in and
they had just gotten a Xerox machine at the police department,
and so they tell the guy, they say, okay, we
got this brand new light detector test and we're gonna
we're gonna hook you up to it and see whether
(30:34):
or not you're telling the truth. Well, they knew he's lying,
so they got a pair of jumper cables. They hooked
it up to a colander and then just hooked the
other end up to the plastic machine. They wrote on
a piece of paper in the Xerox man it stuck
it on the Xerox machine, and it said he is lying.
And so they asked the guy a question and they say,
all right, let's see what the light detector says. They
presses the copy button, says hear you lying boy. You know.
(31:00):
Guy eventually confesses and that case actually went to court.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That one got thrown out. I'm assuming that did not really.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
It did not and that's what one of those.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Because the jury was too busy laughing. This idiot belongs
in prison.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
But you know, the judge's opinion went through great detail.
But I guess because it's the dog on funny, you know,
good and well the judge got that and they were like.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I heard it.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
You can't make this up.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I heard a story when I was a kid, and
it's been a long time ago, so you're probably we're
probably talking forty five years ago.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Forty years This is a while back.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
In Gaston County with the use of an ever ready
flashlight and it's gonna blink when you tell a lie.
And I think that the I think that the sheriff
at the time, who shall remain nameless, but everybody my
age or older will figure out who that is in
Gaston County would push the little the little blinky button
on the.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Lines you something he would do.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Got it, ain't got a confession out of it.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Well, if you're if you're innocent, you don't off for crape,
that's correct. And if you're stupid enough to fall for
crap like that, then you probably were gonna get caught
some other way. In Here's the thing is I worked
a lot of robberies, bank robberies, store right when I
was in that robbery unit for like three and a
half years. Hush dog, she wants to go back out again.
(32:19):
The uh, we didn't catch the smart ones. There wasn't
a whole lot of smart ones to start with. Okay,
I mean it just like.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Robber saying, it's not like the movies where they plan
these things for now.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We call time.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Every bank robbery we had during my three and a
half years and the Robbery Task Force, we called every
single one of them. One of them was because he
was wearing He got caught in Tampa and uh wearing
wearing the same camouflaged jacket that came in on property.
We put out a put out a BOLO state wide
intel bulletin saying, hey we got a white male robbed
(32:54):
a bank. Uh came in. This is what he did.
He was wearing a camouflage jacket. Well, they had arrest
somebody for robbing a store. I think it was a
Hooters or something restaurant down in Tampa. And so he
says he's so the detective said, well, he was wearing
a camouflage jacket when we picked him up. And we
(33:16):
have a we have a Soso case here, and I said, well,
let me come down take a look, and went down there,
said show me the jacket, and I pull out the
surveillance photo and I look at his jacket. You know
when you cut camouflage off of a big rim of
cloth military woodland cam Woodland cameo, it's like a fingerprint.
It's like a fingerprint because there's only so many times
(33:37):
that in that when they build that garment, that the
splotches are going to line up the same. And uh,
we were able to we were able to show. I
showed him the pictures and I said, I got you
right here, and that's yours, because I got him to
say ahead of time, you know, was that the jacket
you were wearing? Yeah, that's mine. Okay, how long you
had that thing? Man? I used to get one like
(33:58):
that from the Army Navy store when I was a kid.
I'd go up there and buy stuff. You just carry
on this conversation and he's talking to you, and he go, okay, so, so,
uh is this jacket right here? It's a picture of
your jacket. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Why And I said,
because this is the same jacket in this picture in
the bank and Tyler hassee when you drive rob Tallahasse
State Bank, and he's like, yeah, man, that's me, you know.
(34:22):
And that's how you get people to confess a lot
of times is you have to get past the whole
Miranda thing. You gotta you kind of you know, you
gotta read Miranda, and you gotta get him to sign away,
and you got to get him to do all that.
But once you get but then you it's like, all right, man,
we got that out the way. So so where are
you from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (34:40):
That is, if if if you hear a cop read
you your Miranda rights, it's time to use them.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, you need to shut up.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Out of all the people y'all arrested, how many times
they go and I'm saying nothing, I talk about attorney that.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
More rare than you think.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
It's very rare. And typically it's when they think you
got them, you back them in want and they go,
oh man, I'm I'm now man, I'm gonna have to
because they because they see that. I think, in my opinion,
when they invoke their rights, they're admitting to you that
they're guilty, because why would they invoke their rights if
(35:15):
they weren't guilty, because if you don't have anything to hide,
you know, when you say an interview, hey man, I
know you don't have anything to hide from. We just
got to get through this thing and make sure. I'm
sure there's an ext but there's a there's a logical
explanation for why you know, we're sitting here having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
They're having this conversation, and you say, that's when you
call ask for the train.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
But the point is is if you if you harm
somebody in a self defense situation and they start asking
you questions, you really need to be careful what you say.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
That's the Yeah. So a couple of weeks ago, I
had a I don't want to identify the case, but.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Don't don't don't get this barred over radio.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Show, right, So typically you know, if cop caused me
once talk my cal Nope, not gonna do it. Yeah,
we'll see in court. I actually escorted a client to
the State Attorney's office last week and gave an interview
with my client ask away. In that case, I knew
(36:17):
all of I've completed the discovery process. I knew from
the get go what my client had said, but I
wanted to make sure there wasn't anything else out there
that contradicted what he said. I did that, and there
isn't anything else out there that contradicted what he said.
So I said, okay, let's go tell them what happened.
And he had a legitimate explanation, and so I prepared
(36:40):
him for the interview. He didn't lie, and they lied
when he first came to see me. But I had
the benefit of knowing what they know. If you are
arrested or you're being investigated, that law enforcement officer is
not going to tell you what he knows. He's not
going to confront you with all of the evidence and say, Okay,
(37:00):
here's everything we've got, Now what do you have to
say about this. They're't gonna do that. A lot of times,
they're going to ask you questions they already know the
answers to, and you don't know what those questions are,
and if you say something that contradicts what they have,
they're they're going to automatically assume you're guilty of what
it is you're you're doing, So you don't you don't
(37:22):
ever talk to the police without a lawyer about conduct
that you are accused of or things that you are
accused of. It's just not I couldn't advise anybody, and
it'd be malpracticed for me to buy somebody otherwise.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I can. Yeah, I concur, I concur I was. I
remember one where we had a videotape and we had
a very very weak case on a robbery of a hotel.
And the guy came in and he touched he came
in and he didn't I remember the descriptions. There's two
guys by bly. One came in, jumped over the county.
(38:01):
The other one came in, opened the door, put his
hand right there. I said, all right, was he wearing gloves?
Looked at the video, was not wearing gloves, no fingerprints,
but he put his hand right there and he held
the door open while the other guy jumped behind the
count got stuff left. I forget how we got the information,
but when it was we got this kid in. We
(38:22):
had no idea who the other guy was, but we
felt like this kid he was sort of he watched
the body lane, but he was sort of a follower,
and most of these robberies were his string of robberies
was working. Was one guy leading, one guy following and
he made a statement and called him D. Hey, you
know hold the door D, and so just get the
kid was known by D on the streets. A cold interview.
(38:45):
Brought him in and said, amen, you know read him
as rights and said, you know, although you're free to
go at any time, still I don't want to read
your rights because I want to be fair to you.
And we get in there and I said the man,
I'm pretty sure this was you. This is a date
the time it came in. Got your handprint off the
window with the back door. When you when your buddy
(39:05):
said hold the door, D, you held it with an
ungloved hand. We got your fingerprint, got your dead to rights.
Well you want to tell me, May I do anything
I can to help you, but you got to you
got to come clean, all right. This name is so
and so and so and so and so and so.
We were about a dozen and a half robberies. We
were able to put on that other guy and I
went to court and kept that fell out of prison
(39:26):
on that one. I think you know his attorney.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
You know it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1 (40:03):
Remember FDI se Hey, it's Charlie and JD from Talent
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seven seventy five point fifty. It's a driving.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
I'm so hug lining.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
See this is the segment four. So we'll take a
little bit about fishing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, officer, Well, I tell you the U as y'all
know the fisher fighting. This is a picture of one
of the big crop that we caught yesterday. If y'all
can see it's a crappy.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, I think that thing is.
Speaker 5 (41:00):
It was a grouper.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
We caught several of them, about twenty of them.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
That big.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
That already slab. That's a fish of many names. That's
a slab of cycle.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You want to put it on. But I was out
mister Robert Willis and been town was going to go.
He lives on across the lake. Picked him up over
at Sibley's Land and you know what that's that JD
and went out there and my gosh, we caught it
almost actually brought what I want to show you.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
I don't know if if if we go fishing on
a charter, will you we get to keep this thing?
Speaker 3 (41:32):
You get to fry that.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, that's the best eating fish.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
You can't keep bass, but you'd keep them.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
I want to keep the ba.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But what we were catching those on is this right here.
I'm gonna hold it up. A jig head eight thounced
jig head and a little well that broke off a
little Berkeley, I mean a Bobby Garland baby shad. Remember
he was doing that. Yeah, yeah, I want to show
y'all something I've done. Usually it's a little that's mature fluke.
(42:02):
That's right, putting this on the jighead. I don't catch
two or three cropping per bait, but I take a
staple and add it right here as a keeper. Nine
catch ten to twelve on it.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
But do you use a beetle spin on that?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No? No, just and tie the line right here, and
I rig it up just like this.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Are you fishing vertical for those? Pretty much casting casting
out and pull.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Out my guys, I'm seeing them on live scope, so
I'm casting to them. But that's how you rig it
and putting that little keeper on there. So just it's
just like that.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
And people people in our radio audience are going, what
is he doing?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
I'm trying to.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Why you need to watch it?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
You rigging to pull it off head with what is
that thing called?
Speaker 2 (42:49):
This is a this is this jighead is just a
one to eight thounced ball head jighead.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
But the actual actual.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Bait is a Bobby Garland baby chad.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
He's got to pick dure of a crappy on it,
which I would call a perchase.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
It's a it's a Fluke. It's a little small Fluke style.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
But yeah, it's inch and a half inch and three
quarters and buying Walmart. What's so cool about it? Putting
that little keeper on there. Look out, it'll break before
it comes off, which you know, if I can catch
ten fish per bait versus three, i's say some money, brother,
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I have an in the business of doing it.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Yes, sir, I have a question to ask you. I
was thinking about it earlier this week. What is your
take on these these sense that you can spray on
this this stuff here? What what's what's your.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I like to think that I'm good enough. I don't
have to have it, but I've learned sometimes it makes
a difference. I use Berkeley Gulp Alive of Shad mental formula.
And when when they start off, you throw it out
there and you watching your bait fall and they come
out there in a crappie. They got very good eyesight.
They'll come out there and they'll it's lightly. They come
up there and just smell it. Sometimes they'll get it
(43:59):
and you don't even feel it. You know, it's amazing.
But then I'll put some of that on there, and
then then they thump it. You know what I mean,
it seems like it does make a difference.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
It's so you use it Berkeley.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It's called Berkeley gulp.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
I got, Okay, I don't what a Berkeley gulp is.
But since this is shad, they make a shady, make shad, crawfish, garlic,
all different kinds about shrimp.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Trump. Make sure they make a dra card noir.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I don't know if they can pull. But the other now,
all this we did catch.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Some stumer number five and deep water get.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I like to think I didn't need sent back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
But the other day, this is what we call. This
is what you call an Alabama rig. Now I know
this thing has been beat up.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I mean it's like a Christmas tree on him.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
An Alabama called Alabama rig umbrella rig.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Because of family trees and the state line straight line.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
For those on the radio rig. He's got five different wires,
one in the middle with a with a jig head
and it.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Looks like an umbrella that you took the cloth off tho.
You got some arms out there, and each arm's gotta.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Got snag everything in the lake on that thing.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And that will happen if you if you don't go
at the right speed with it. But man, I tell
you what.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
And it's also not uncommon to catch more than one
fish at a time.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Yes, you're catching hybrids on that.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I'm catching hybrids on that. What you also catch strippers
on Yes, this would wear you out if you had
to cast it. So I throw it out about forty yards,
line out in this troll how fast going at a
certain speed, and then when they hit it, I have
to have the drag set so loose. When they hit it,
they'll jerk this thing out of your hand.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So that's that's simulating a school school shat exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Now the other day when I had these guys out
were's catching them, I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull
over like I was talking.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
To you JD earlier, that you can snag you something.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
But I pulled up where these fish were out, these
hybrids and stripers, and I started seeing them on four faces.
So they were just sitting there and I thought maybe
these are bass. I threw out there and watched my
bait fall down to the fish hit it in a
five pound hybrid and I usually moving. Yes, you can
keep those all right, but JD. Game me made me
(46:17):
think a hybrid and a is a crossing a striper
and a white bass. So maybe those fish are just
acting more like a white white bass. That was cool.
I've never called like that. We're just picking them off
them guys end up catching like ten like that. It
was cool.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
So the hybrids, they released those into the lake. Yes, okay,
they don't actually breathe they okay, so they're they're like.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
A mule, exactly like a mule. It is a it
is a cross between a between the stripe bass and a.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
White bast This year, I've noticed the best days. I
think we caught twenty five that day, but it was cloudy, windy,
little spitz of rain. It's just then yesterday I went
to the same place. Fish still there, just not biting
his grass of bright.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
And see the official name of what we call hybrid
as a sunshine bass. Yeah, and they were developed down here.
I remember as a as a as a ute, uh,
the Game and Fish Commission would have big white bass
tournaments on on on APLETs Cola River and we would
go down there and catch white bass and you keep
them alive and you uh, you turn them into.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
F W C and they send them to Wuhan and
they would well.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
You would, you would, you would, you would keep them alive.
They warn them alive and you turn them into f
w C. And they would give you prizes for the
most you know, the biggest fish, most fish whatever. F
w C would actually put these tournaments on and for
kids it was it was a free tournament and they
would give you They would get donations and give you gifts,
you know, fish and tackle or whatever else for for
participating in the tournament and giving them fish. Well, they
(47:45):
would take those fish and use the use the eggs
or the of the sperm from the fish to make
to make the Sunshine bass. And they're delicious to eat there.
It's a renewable resource. They fight like no other fish
in fresh water. It is like, I mean, they pull
like nothing else. They outclass everything in pound pounds in fresh.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Water and j D. The other day, I was throwing
ten pound test line with eight pound leaders here. It
was taken ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
The leaders on these.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Yeah, they have a big, wide flat tail and man
they can they can absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
And I tell you nothing. When I was showing these
guys and a lot of people don't know this but
the gill play that cuts you, you'll need to still.
I told them, I said, you have to hold him
in the mouth if you grab right here. If he
gives a shake and he grabbed me, we're just gonna
go on in and take you to the hospitals and
get stitches. Okay, I won't touch you.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Said you're you are trolling for this?
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yes, trolled, and then we just caught them in your server,
we call so.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
When we don't grab a hybrid by the gills ever
back every all right?
Speaker 4 (48:52):
So but when you when you cat did you cast
the Alabama rig?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
We caught a couple like that, but most of them
we were trolling, all right, So let us to start
off with a speed.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
And he ain't gonna tell you.
Speaker 4 (49:03):
I know I kind of figured that out.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Fast enough to keep it from getting hung up in that.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Is there a lure that you can test and checks?
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (49:11):
You could take this right here, rattle traps.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
This is what I did the other day. Take this off.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
Okay, so you take one of those.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Ship swim swim jigs now through that.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
And so you're throwing just a look. So what we're
looking at is sort of like a like a gulf
fresh water.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
That's all it is. This is an eighth ounce head.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
It's no different than a trout rigged right.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
They'll hit rattle traps, they'll have any kind of you
get them in the right mood, they'll hit anything that moves.
There's a very aggressive fish there.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
You go.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Fred. Now what's fun is in the warmer weather and
when it starts to warm up they'll start schooling on
the top water and you can catchtrol baits and holding
fun stuff in the river.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I want to let people know if anybody wants to
do some fishing coming up. We got Christmas coming up.
Great stocking scuffer. They can give me a call or
at eight five o two six four seventy five three
four reach out to me on Facebook Captain Paul tar Fishing.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
So you can have Paul stuffed in your stocking.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, we wan a fishing trip, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
So why while you're talking about that. Also for Christmas
coming up, you can buy your love to one or
somebody that you care about, or somebody in your business
or employees. You can buy membership to this range. You
can come in and buy gift cards.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Go ahead on I want to talk about that. My
found out my my daughter's getting a pistol, and I
want to see about getting her membership here. If she's
going to have a glock, she needs to be properly taught.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
She needs some training, and she needs, you know, an
access to the range. We'll talk about that after the show,
but just keep in mind that you know, you can
do a range renewal for somebody gift cards. It's it's
better to buy a gift card for a gun than
to buy an actual gun. But you but you can.
You can, in fact, buy a firearm as a gift. Uh,
(51:00):
you don't. That's not a strong purchase. So you can
come in and buy your wife or kid a firearm
as a gift. What you can't do is take money
from somebody, come in and buy a gun for them
and use their money or expect to get paid back
later on. But yeah, I mean, there's a there's a
plethora of opportunities for you to get stocking stuffers from
all that stuff right out here to range. So hopefully
(51:20):
we'll see you guys soon at one of our locations.
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