February 18, 2025 • 9 mins
Labour Leader Chris Hipkins joined John MacDonald this morning to give his thoughts on some of the biggest stories of the week.
The integrity of the public service is being called into question after Census data was allegedly misused – how will this impact trust in the future?
Hipkins believes the GP shortage is the biggest factor impacting demand at Christchurch Hospital ED, so what would he do differently if he was Health Minister now?
And he expands on his statement condemning the actions of Destiny Church protestors over the weekend.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Priss Hapkins, as well as for the first of our
regular catch ups for twenty twenty five Morning, Chris and
that don't say it. Don't say it.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm not glad to wish you a happy New Year
because it's too far into the lot, it's.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Too late, So happy happy week. Let's but you know,
kind of inferring that we know what we're wishing each other.
Is that all right?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
You just say it's good to be back, Good to.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Be back, Chris. Right, how do you feel about the
public public sector in light of this report? You're losing
confidence or faith or trust in it?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh, I certainly think, you know, those agencies that have
been criticized have been rightly criticized by I think it's
pretty sober and reading. If you look at Stats New Zealand,
for example, you know they've got independence from the government
of the day to make decisions around the sorts of
things that were in question here, and clearly they haven't
had sufficient safeguards in place. Census is you know, a
(01:08):
collecting census data is becoming more and more of a
problem in New Zealand and around the world because people
don't trust that process anymore, and unfortunately things like this
are just going to make that an even bigger challenge.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So where's your faith and confidence? That was a question.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, I think the right call was made yesterday. The
chief executive has resigned, and I think you know that's
ultimately where the accountability lies. I think the key thing
for the steps to do now is to make sure
that they actually re build those systems so that we
can have trust and confidence in the systems that they've
got in place to protect people's information.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I heared you're talking to Tim Beverage the other day
and you were talking about defense spending in New Zealand
and you said that you reckon that the role of
the defense forces to do stuff like surveying and things
like that that I'll see you on the TV news
last night and you're saying, oh, yes, yes, yes, we're
in favor of sending New Zealand soldiers to be peacekeepers
in Ukraine. The two don't stack up compared to it,
(02:07):
compared to each other, do they.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's not either or, and I've never suggested it's in
either law. What the conversation I have with your Collington
beverage was actually about what kind of capability does the
New Zealand Defense Force need? So, yes, we need to
have troops that we can send around the world, and
under US we actually invested quite a lot and making
sure they've got better equipment when they do go around
the world on those international deployments. But the next big
(02:32):
spending items for US in defense are particularly in the
areas like the navy, so were the Endzact fligate's coming
up for replacement. We've got the money we knew is
obviously at the bottom of the sea now, and we've
got some big choices to make about what kind of
naval capacity that we need.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay, if I've just focused on if I can keep
a focus, but the question is.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
What's the demand for our naval capacity. It's in things
like disaster release, it's in things like search and surveillance,
it's in things like patroling the Southern Ocean, and we
don't have any ice breaking capability in the naval fleet
at the moment. They get the Southern Oceans right on
our doorstep. So these are the sorts of conversations I
think we need to heir of the country so do
you want to.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
See defense spending up around the two percent GDP mark.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
What I've said is, I don't think we should measure
our success by how much money we spend. What we've
got to do is look at what do we need
in our defense force and how much is that kind
of cost. I think setting a spending target rather than
thinking about the outcomes that we need, is the wrong
way around. It's kind of ironic because that's that's the
National Party's language, not mine. I mean, they're always going
on about.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh all right, all right, all right, all right, all right,
all right, by what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We should measure our success in defense by how much
money we're spending.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All right, Well, Prosessians often talk about how much they'll spend.
Why should we be involved in peacekeeping in Ukraine?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Though New Zealand's got a pretty proud tradition I think
of sending peacekeeping troops to hot spots around the world.
We're very well respected to doing that, and actually we've
all got an interest. If you believe in democracy, if
you believe in a rules based international system, then actually
New Zealand should play a role in securing peace in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So you would think then what Donald Trump is doing
and trying to negotiate a deal or a settlement without
Ukraine being involved, you'd be detaposed to that.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, I think Ukraine's got to be involved in any
conversations about the future. I mean, it's their country, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I was saying yesterday, I'm surprised that we don't have
leaders in this city who were cacking up a fuss
about the situation with the Emergency Department of christ to
your hospital. They're telling people only turn up if you've
got a life threatening illness or condition and you have
to go to after ours and then you've got some
after our saying we're full, don't come here. Do you
(04:42):
think that we need to see more leadership from the
likes of mayors and business leaders when it comes to
doing a better job about lobbying for to address these situations.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's certainly a role for
political leaders, business leaders and so on. The fundamental issue
is we need more GPS than we need more after ours,
more GP practices, and more prevent of healthcare and we
wouldn't have the pressure on EDS. I mean, d's are
kind of the last line of defense. Really, if people
are ending up an ED, it's normally because something's gone
wrong much earlier on in the piece. A lot of
(05:17):
the people who are in EDS, we could stop getting
there if we did better preventative healthcare. And actually a
lot of the things that EDS are treating could be
treated in a GP clinic or and after ours clinic.
And the fact that they're under so much pressure as
a problem for the health system as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, you were the health minister on one points, but
rich say, that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I have the minister for a couple of months, But yes,
I do think, you know, we need to train more
doctors and we need to keep the doctors that we've got.
That is a big part of the problem. So if
I could go back, you know, six seven years to
when we first became the government, I'd increase the number
of medical school places right there and then, because it
actually takes a long time between when you start training
(05:58):
more doctors to when they actually hit the workforce. You know,
the doctor is hitting the workforce now started their training
when before government was even elected. So these guys started
their training back when probably John Kem bil English were.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The pri Okay, we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
We takes a long time to solve those workforce challenges
in health.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, we're going to talk about protests as shortly. Going
to cover this off with you, But you put out
a statement the other day about the Destiny Church. In
response to the Destiny Church, and you said, you, real
men don't do what those guys did at the weekend.
What are you getting at there?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Bullying, intimidation, It's suggish behavior, and I don't think that's
the sort of behavior of real men. It's not the
sort of behavior that we should be encouraging. Actually, I think,
you know, men, all of us should set examples. We
should say to young boys that actually, men should be
protecting other people. We should be respecting other people. We
(06:56):
should be comfortable enough in our own identities to respect
that other people have different identities, and that diversity is
a healthy thing in a society. And I think that
that is not the message that the Destiny Church are sending.
The cup of buggish behavior that we've seen from them
is frankly reprehensible, and I think we should condemn it
in the strongest possible language.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Another run protest was the one in Raratongi yesterday, did
you get freaked out when you saw the Greens co
leader there?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I don't know it was the Greens colder.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I think it was the most the mighty party to
party Mari sorry it is to Bardi Mary.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah. What I said yesterday, which I think is
the right approaches do Zean politicians need to be a
bit careful about attending protests in different countries. You know,
we've got ways of conveying our views just through diplomatic
channels where we disagree, but ultimately a protest against the
Cork Islands government matters for the people who live in
the Cork Islands really, so.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You're not freaked out? Is that why you're not completely
shutting the door in New Zealand? First because to Bardi MARII,
they could be a fly on the ointment for you
getting back into government, couldn't they.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I mean, I think you're clearly people aren't reading beyond
the headline. If you actually read the headline of that
article about New Zealand, person says the opposite of what
the headlines is, which, as I said, that we ruled
out work with New Zealand Feris last time, and I
think it's highly unlikely that that's going to change in
the next selection. But people read into that what they will.
The truth is, you know, I don't agree with the
position that the multi party have taken here. You know, GiB,
(08:22):
I understand those of the year on her, you know,
celebrating your wedding anniversary. It's not necessarily something that I
do celebrating my wedding anniversary to be free.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
One other protest related story in the news today is
the Independent Police Complaints Authority coming up with these recommendations
that people should give police advanced notice of protest action,
protesters should follow any conditions set by the police once
they've given that notice. Once they've give them, the cops
their heads up and they want it made illegal to
(08:54):
pick at someone's private residence. What's your response to those recommendations.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm very cautious about those. I think, you know, anti
protest laws have been used in other country to suppress disagreement,
and I don't think that's a healthy thing and a democracy,
I think people should be free to disagree. Protest is disruptive,
that's the nature of the activity, and I do acknowledge
that police have got a difficult job, particularly given the
(09:22):
nature of some of the protests that we're seeing now,
but I think we've got to be really careful about
in any way restricting people's right to protest.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm with you there. We'll catch up on a Fortnitett.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Good to talk to you, John.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Priss Hapkins, as well as for the first of our
regular catch ups for twenty twenty five Morning, Chris and
that don't say it. Don't say it.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm not glad to wish you a happy New Year
because it's too far into the lot, it's.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Too late, So happy happy week. Let's but you know,
kind of inferring that we know what we're wishing each other.
Is that all right?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
You just say it's good to be back, Good to.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Be back, Chris. Right, how do you feel about the
public public sector in light of this report? You're losing
confidence or faith or trust in it?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh, I certainly think, you know, those agencies that have
been criticized have been rightly criticized by I think it's
pretty sober and reading. If you look at Stats New Zealand,
for example, you know they've got independence from the government
of the day to make decisions around the sorts of
things that were in question here, and clearly they haven't
had sufficient safeguards in place. Census is you know, a
(01:08):
collecting census data is becoming more and more of a
problem in New Zealand and around the world because people
don't trust that process anymore, and unfortunately things like this
are just going to make that an even bigger challenge.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So where's your faith and confidence? That was a question.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, I think the right call was made yesterday. The
chief executive has resigned, and I think you know that's
ultimately where the accountability lies. I think the key thing
for the steps to do now is to make sure
that they actually re build those systems so that we
can have trust and confidence in the systems that they've
got in place to protect people's information.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I heared you're talking to Tim Beverage the other day
and you were talking about defense spending in New Zealand
and you said that you reckon that the role of
the defense forces to do stuff like surveying and things
like that that I'll see you on the TV news
last night and you're saying, oh, yes, yes, yes, we're
in favor of sending New Zealand soldiers to be peacekeepers
in Ukraine. The two don't stack up compared to it,
(02:07):
compared to each other, do they.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's not either or, and I've never suggested it's in
either law. What the conversation I have with your Collington
beverage was actually about what kind of capability does the
New Zealand Defense Force need? So, yes, we need to
have troops that we can send around the world, and
under US we actually invested quite a lot and making
sure they've got better equipment when they do go around
the world on those international deployments. But the next big
(02:32):
spending items for US in defense are particularly in the
areas like the navy, so were the Endzact fligate's coming
up for replacement. We've got the money we knew is
obviously at the bottom of the sea now, and we've
got some big choices to make about what kind of
naval capacity that we need.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay, if I've just focused on if I can keep
a focus, but the question is.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
What's the demand for our naval capacity. It's in things
like disaster release, it's in things like search and surveillance,
it's in things like patroling the Southern Ocean, and we
don't have any ice breaking capability in the naval fleet
at the moment. They get the Southern Oceans right on
our doorstep. So these are the sorts of conversations I
think we need to heir of the country so do
you want to.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
See defense spending up around the two percent GDP mark.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
What I've said is, I don't think we should measure
our success by how much money we spend. What we've
got to do is look at what do we need
in our defense force and how much is that kind
of cost. I think setting a spending target rather than
thinking about the outcomes that we need, is the wrong
way around. It's kind of ironic because that's that's the
National Party's language, not mine. I mean, they're always going
on about.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh all right, all right, all right, all right, all right,
all right, by what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We should measure our success in defense by how much
money we're spending.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
All right, Well, Prosessians often talk about how much they'll spend.
Why should we be involved in peacekeeping in Ukraine?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Though New Zealand's got a pretty proud tradition I think
of sending peacekeeping troops to hot spots around the world.
We're very well respected to doing that, and actually we've
all got an interest. If you believe in democracy, if
you believe in a rules based international system, then actually
New Zealand should play a role in securing peace in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So you would think then what Donald Trump is doing
and trying to negotiate a deal or a settlement without
Ukraine being involved, you'd be detaposed to that.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, I think Ukraine's got to be involved in any
conversations about the future. I mean, it's their country, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I was saying yesterday, I'm surprised that we don't have
leaders in this city who were cacking up a fuss
about the situation with the Emergency Department of christ to
your hospital. They're telling people only turn up if you've
got a life threatening illness or condition and you have
to go to after ours and then you've got some
after our saying we're full, don't come here. Do you
(04:42):
think that we need to see more leadership from the
likes of mayors and business leaders when it comes to
doing a better job about lobbying for to address these situations.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's certainly a role for
political leaders, business leaders and so on. The fundamental issue
is we need more GPS than we need more after ours,
more GP practices, and more prevent of healthcare and we
wouldn't have the pressure on EDS. I mean, d's are
kind of the last line of defense. Really, if people
are ending up an ED, it's normally because something's gone
wrong much earlier on in the piece. A lot of
(05:17):
the people who are in EDS, we could stop getting
there if we did better preventative healthcare. And actually a
lot of the things that EDS are treating could be
treated in a GP clinic or and after ours clinic.
And the fact that they're under so much pressure as
a problem for the health system as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, you were the health minister on one points, but
rich say, that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I have the minister for a couple of months, But yes,
I do think, you know, we need to train more
doctors and we need to keep the doctors that we've got.
That is a big part of the problem. So if
I could go back, you know, six seven years to
when we first became the government, I'd increase the number
of medical school places right there and then, because it
actually takes a long time between when you start training
(05:58):
more doctors to when they actually hit the workforce. You know,
the doctor is hitting the workforce now started their training
when before government was even elected. So these guys started
their training back when probably John Kem bil English were.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The pri Okay, we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
We takes a long time to solve those workforce challenges
in health.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, we're going to talk about protests as shortly. Going
to cover this off with you, But you put out
a statement the other day about the Destiny Church. In
response to the Destiny Church, and you said, you, real
men don't do what those guys did at the weekend.
What are you getting at there?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Bullying, intimidation, It's suggish behavior, and I don't think that's
the sort of behavior of real men. It's not the
sort of behavior that we should be encouraging. Actually, I think,
you know, men, all of us should set examples. We
should say to young boys that actually, men should be
protecting other people. We should be respecting other people. We
(06:56):
should be comfortable enough in our own identities to respect
that other people have different identities, and that diversity is
a healthy thing in a society. And I think that
that is not the message that the Destiny Church are sending.
The cup of buggish behavior that we've seen from them
is frankly reprehensible, and I think we should condemn it
in the strongest possible language.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Another run protest was the one in Raratongi yesterday, did
you get freaked out when you saw the Greens co
leader there?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I don't know it was the Greens colder.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I think it was the most the mighty party to
party Mari sorry it is to Bardi Mary.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah. What I said yesterday, which I think is
the right approaches do Zean politicians need to be a
bit careful about attending protests in different countries. You know,
we've got ways of conveying our views just through diplomatic
channels where we disagree, but ultimately a protest against the
Cork Islands government matters for the people who live in
the Cork Islands really, so.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You're not freaked out? Is that why you're not completely
shutting the door in New Zealand? First because to Bardi MARII,
they could be a fly on the ointment for you
getting back into government, couldn't they.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I mean, I think you're clearly people aren't reading beyond
the headline. If you actually read the headline of that
article about New Zealand, person says the opposite of what
the headlines is, which, as I said, that we ruled
out work with New Zealand Feris last time, and I
think it's highly unlikely that that's going to change in
the next selection. But people read into that what they will.
The truth is, you know, I don't agree with the
position that the multi party have taken here. You know, GiB,
(08:22):
I understand those of the year on her, you know,
celebrating your wedding anniversary. It's not necessarily something that I
do celebrating my wedding anniversary to be free.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
One other protest related story in the news today is
the Independent Police Complaints Authority coming up with these recommendations
that people should give police advanced notice of protest action,
protesters should follow any conditions set by the police once
they've given that notice. Once they've give them, the cops
their heads up and they want it made illegal to
(08:54):
pick at someone's private residence. What's your response to those recommendations.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm very cautious about those. I think, you know, anti
protest laws have been used in other country to suppress disagreement,
and I don't think that's a healthy thing and a democracy,
I think people should be free to disagree. Protest is disruptive,
that's the nature of the activity, and I do acknowledge
that police have got a difficult job, particularly given the
(09:22):
nature of some of the protests that we're seeing now,
but I think we've got to be really careful about
in any way restricting people's right to protest.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm with you there. We'll catch up on a Fortnitett.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Good to talk to you, John.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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