Andrew Little: Former Defence Minister on the talks between NZ and China about the warships in the Tasman

Our Government has raised concerns about China's warships in the Tasman Sea at the highest level, as our Defence Force continues to monitor the ships' movements. 

Foreign Minister Winston Peters has discussed the issue with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi during a meeting in Beijing. 

Former Defence Minister Andrew Little says it will have been a frank conversation. 

The Chinese Naval vessels are now moving west in Australia's exclusive economic zone, but Little told Andrew Dickens they still aren't in Australia's territorial waters. 

Little says China is following the law of the sea and will presumably seek permission before entering the 12-mile zone. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So Winston Peter's met with China's Foreign minister overnight. As
those warships in closer to Australia, they're well into Australia's
Exclusive Economic zone at this point. But New Zealanders and
Australians are like a hopeful that Winston has had some
words with Chinese officials. But to give us some sort
of insight about what's happening at that level, I'm joined
by former Defense Minister Andrew Little from the Labor Party.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello Andrew, good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
So what are the rules around being in an exclusive
economic zone?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, as long as they as long as you're in
international waters and you're obeying the rules under the United
Nation's convinced on the law of the Seat, then that's
all fine. They and that's what China is doing. But
there's no question why they are down here and during
live firing and all the rest of it is they

(00:51):
are projecting and making it very clear to Australia and
New Zealand and no doubt the rest of the Pacifics
that are capable of doing this, that they have this
was it can come the star and this is about
projecting their military strength that they have at the moment
power projection.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
This is true. How close can the ships get before
they've overstepped.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Once around the twelve mile zone of twelve miles or
four then at that point it's expected that there would
be permission, and that would be that would be probably
notified in a way that hasn't happened so far. But
at the moment, every indication is that they are observing
the law of the sea, and all we can already

(01:36):
do is observe at the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, So wis Peter's met with Wang Yi, who's China's
foreign minister last night. We've all seen the releases. You've
been a defense minister. Can you read between the lines
and tell us how successful that meeting was or not?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I saw the statement that they've released, and they've
recorded to those recorded the issues that were raised. That's
the way these things happen. The statements tend to be
pretty blend and very polite and all the rest of it.
But I think we can be assured that the aid
that the issues were raised, and I expect that Peter,
as a long serving foreign minister, done it many times,

(02:14):
and who knows when he would have been pretty forceful.
I expect and his representations about that. The way you
deal with China, to make your point is, you know,
what you say behind closed doors in the room is
one thing. The way you talk about what you've said
afterwards is a different thing. That's just the way you

(02:34):
keep face with China. That has more of an impact
than sort that the megaphone diplomacy that we've seen in
another case, Well, you're.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Talking about megaphone diplomacy. Acting Prime Minister David Seymour yesterday
had some fairly harsh words for China, and is there
really a risk in using strong language and domestic media
to define our positions, just trying to really take offense.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I think China will understand that, you know, politicians of
whatever country but here in his Zinn need to speak
to a domestic audience and we'll say those things. I think, however,
they will also expect that when there is a bilateral
dialogue such as the one that mister features has been them,
that issues will be raised and it's that's the forum

(03:17):
to have the argument about it. And I think the
I mean, I think the other thing about dealing with
China is understanding that the relationship with China is multi dimensional.
So there is you know, there's betrayed relationship which is
really positive, but there's also what they do and how
they relate to other countries, particularly in our region, so
that isn't protected positive and that's that's we We just

(03:40):
have to navigate that style of relationship with China. But
having having the dialogue is important. Raising COFUSA is important,
but China will understand that politicians have to speak to
a domestic audience as well.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Okay, Andrew Little and I thank you so much for
your expertise. Andrew is the former Defense Minister and has
talked to China before. For more from Early Edition with
Ryan Bridge, listen live to News Talks.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
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