March 24, 2025 • 9 mins
Christopher Luxon says the country needs to get faster at building things.
The Government's announced it is replacing the Resource Management Act with a new planning framework, including new Acts around development of land and on protection of the natural environment.
It comes after the Government also announced plans to allow trusted builders to approve their own work and look at whether consenting authorities are fit-for-purpose.
The Prime Minister told Mike Hosking too many things are standing in the way of getting things done.
He says it currently takes 19 months to build a standard three or four-bedroom house here and is 50% more expensive than in Australia.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime Minister joint is Good morning to you. Morning, Mike.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm very well. Indeed, I would, at the risk of
being overtly political, I'd like to congratulate you on what
you did last week, because I read a lot about it,
and what everyone seemed to agree on was it was exhausting.
There was very little downtime, and I noted in your
boys by at the end of it you could barely speak,
so it seems to have been a success. Yeah, Look,
(00:24):
it was a really great week.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Mic. Come in, you come away from a place like India, going, man,
there's so much opportunity. I mean, this is a country
it doesn't You can debate their growth rates and whether
it's enough and all that sort of stuff, but the
bottom line is, you know, man, in the next twenty
thirty fifty years, this place is going to go from
low to middle income and it's working hard to get
to higher income. And there's just you got four hundred
and fifty five million people sitting in the middle class
(00:46):
there that actually have a huge amount from his own.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Products and services.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So and you know, you've got a population of size
bigger than China, and yet we've got probably one twentieth
of the trade being done with India, so I was
really pleased. We had a really good connection with Prome,
Minister Modi on very well that we did some extra
stuff together which was great than planned. We managed to
launch the comprehensive FTA. That'll be a pretty tough conversation now,
but we will do the best deal we can for
(01:10):
New Zealand. And then yeah, we just we had a
good community business delegation who made some good connections to you,
which was great. So no, really, it's just a good
reminder Mike, somebody you can get out of the bubble
and go out in the world and actually feel man,
there's no reason we should be thinking opportunity, not problem.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Quite correct. So you're doing that, Peters is doing rubio
and then you come back home to a pole that's
got you. I can't remember the number. Is that one
of those issues polls that everyone hates you anyway? So
is that deflating?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I didn't come to politics four years ago to
worry about Poles. I came here to get the things
sorted and faxed it on the right track.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So you know, I know what my mission and.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Purposes, which is yep, it's tough for Kiwi's yep, they
want us to go faster. People like you keep pushing
me to go even faster and faster. I get it.
We've got some good things starting to happen. I mean,
we are starting to the turn the corner.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, you saw the GDP numbers up in the
fourth quarter last year. That's a year after taking government.
You've seen interest rates come down. We're expecting another cuts
in April and May. You're seeing inflation get under control.
I mean, I don't know when you saw the numbers
out of the primary sector, but you know, dairy's looking great.
Red and meat us talking to Nathan guy the other day,
they reckon there's another one point two billion in red
(02:21):
meat this year. Even the wool guys have been in
really a lot of pain. You know, they're doing a
lot better this year. So you know, agriculture's looking good.
Services and manufacturing group the first time. Recently, tourism's up
twenty three percent, So it's coming. It's coming. I know
that's hard for people to hear, and it is really
difficult and it's frustrating, but my god, this is what
happens when you inherit a hell of a mess.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
From that, and I've got to fix it, can you.
I know what you announced yesterday and I applaud you
for that as well, as long as something comes off,
because the announcements on RAMA are more folsome than the
results on RMI. Tell me how you can have a
wind farm. The wind farm was rejected under the previous
government's fast Train I know what you're talking about it right,
How is it you can't have a renewable facility under
(03:03):
fast I mean, what do you need to do well?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I mean, first of all, that's under Parker's old fast
track provisions, which that one I can't come on this
specific project. But what I will say is like that
was insanely stupid. And I mean what we've got under
our fast tracked legislation because our priority is on economic
growth that trumps everything, and I know people give me
grief on that, but I'm sorry. We are over it
and we have to grow.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And so.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Our our priority and fast track legislation is what's going
to drive economic growth regionally or nationally. Projects of that
should be approved. We need more wind farms in this country.
That was a great location for it, you know, let's
see what happens next with that project.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, but then you've got these issues. For example, the
Council's stopping the clock on building is one, and the
Fungal Ray Court decision that came out yesterday on flu
rider is another. How much resistance are you facing from
people who will use every mechanism possible to stall you,
slow you and run their own agenda.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well when we're pretty clear right about it or i am,
which is that we're facing a massive culture in New
Zealand of no. Everyone gets to weaponize the RMA, everyone
gets to say no to everything, everyone gets a comment
on everything, even if it's on people's own property rights.
So you know, the council stuff's classic. I mean, Chris
Penkas for some reporting, they're supposed to know a pre
building consents I think within twenty days buying large up
(04:22):
and down the country, and then what happens is they
issue a request for more information about your deck bracing
or whatever it is that they're trying to get a
building consent for, and then it gets stalled out and
it's insanely stupid. I mean, it now takes us nineteen
months to build as standard three to four bedroom house
in this country and it's fifty percent more expensive than Australia,
forget the land. So you know we have we've got
(04:43):
housing crisis. But either you choose to get to the
root cause the problem, which is this stuff. I know
it's insanely frustrating and it's bureaucracy and it's just treacy,
but we have to keep pushing against it. And that's
why we're saying, look self certification of builders, certainly about
embracing overseas products. The RMA reforms that we're going to do.
I mean RMA has been religion for the last twenty
(05:04):
years or so and just end us whittering and talking
about it. But we've whacked and fast tracked within the
first few weeks we kicked that off, get into government
that's working well or will work well, and then the
RMA reforms with out yesterday is we're going to have
legislation in the House by the end of this year.
I mean normally it goes on for years, like decades,
and you know the last lot made changes under Parker
and the implementation was over a ten year period. I
mean you can't have that. We've got simplified. We have
(05:26):
to simplified planning laws big time to make things, get
things done. So but you're right, there's just I mean,
there's just a culture of no. And that's what I
said earlier in the year. We have to fight that
and say let's start with yes and then then work
from there, not not no, which is what's been happening.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So another example was o ring A Tomariki. So the
under the previous government literally literally know when got evicted.
So the rules change and they can so they start
new people. And yet the other day you want to
go because you're an Indian. But anyway, there's a case
I tom Rooki go to the tendency Tribune. All this
bloke's dealing drugs. You're shooting people. Literally this is kayang Ariam.
Sorry sorry, my apologies coming ah. And so's there is
(06:02):
there's gun violences, threats, less drugs as the usual thing. Anyway,
there's a listening of stuff against the bloke. The tenancy
tribunal goes, no, he can stay because you haven't proved
any of it. I mean, you know that's what you're
up against. So you go, yep, shouldn't thrush. So what
do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, well, you got to keep pushing and having that fight.
I mean, you know, we started that fight again early
on and when we first came to power around you know,
Chrisship did a good job on that around unruly tenants.
There have been endless complaints and I think three people
or something ridiculous evicted from from Crown government houses. These
are houses that your taxpayer colleagues citizens are paying for
you in a tough time to get a state house.
(06:38):
And if you don't treat it with respect, there's twenty
thousand people on the wait lists who desperate would love
to go at having a stay.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
But you say that you'll agree. But by the time
you get to the tenancy tribunal, Brian's there going, oh no,
you didn't prove it, so he can stay. So the
problem is not solved, is it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, But then you've got to you've got to keep
pushing at it, and you've got to keep taking on
the It's a cultural problem we've got right in New Zealand.
We are culturally saying no to stuff and finding excuses
for stuff, and we've actually got to push back on
the culture and when we need to, as we've been
trying to do, then you're rushing through a lot of
legislation under urgency to come in over the top say
we know this is what we are going to do
in this country. This is the law of the land
(07:16):
and we expect it to be upheld. But that notion
whether it's been I've faced the same challenge on benefit sanctions. Right,
I'm sorry, but if you're not out there looking for
a job, which is your job, you're not going to
get a resume together, you're not showing up to interviews,
you're not many with your case manager, then we are
sanctioning your benefits. Now, that's rights and responsibilities. That's a
culture that we had growing up in New Zealand we
need to put back into the country again. And that's
(07:38):
where a lot of this gets into. Its culture of
rights and responsibilities, and it's a culture of yes not no.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I was reading Niicola Willis has got the red flag
up at the moment on the cost of servicing debt.
How worried are you it will approach in the middle
of next year eleven billion dollars on the interest. It's
gone from ten to eleven billion dollars just to service
and interests, and you're still not running surpluses. So you're
adding to it. How big handbreak is that on success looks?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's really hard. I mean, you know, you know the story,
but it's one of the things I don't think the
public have registered from the last lot is that they
inherited five billion of debt and I think they run
it up over one hundred and ten billion. We've now
got an interest bill, which people's mortgages are big, but
now we've got you know, ten to eleven billion of interest.
Think about that. That's more than what we've probably s
been on education, policing, justice, you know, at schools, hospitals, roads,
(08:26):
we can't build because we're just paying a debts back
and we've got nothing for their debt that was run
up by the last lot. Nothing, no better schools, roads, housing, nothing, nothing,
productivity enhancing whatsoever. So that's why you hear me often
say and get pretty fired up about it's economic mismanagement
and vandalism from the last lot, and they just sort
of gas lighting and Brittanian it didn't happen. It did happen,
and it's caused huge pain and suffering for us and
(08:47):
then puts massive pressure on our book.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So it's hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I mean it's hard, but we've got to get the
books back into order over time. It's going to take time,
there's no doubt about that. While we're also trying to
sort of, you know, change the know we're sort of
like the car and change in the wheel. At the
same time, we're trying to get the financial discipline in
place to get the books right. But that's not easy.
I mean, it's easy to spend the money. It's easy
to take on debt. It's the easiest option in the world.
(09:10):
Debt is good if it's for productivity, enhancing infrastructure and
good stuff like that. But it wasn't used in that way.
It was just pure consumption and it was out of control,
and it leads to the situation we've got now with
a hangover of an interest bill that is money we
can't spend setting the country up for even more success.
So yep, that's the reality of the cards that I've
been dealt and my government's been dealt. We're working our
(09:30):
way through it, but it does give people a sense
of how difficult it is. But we're determined to put
financial discipline back into the joint.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Again. Appreciate your time, Prime Minster, Christopher life for more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast. Listen live to news talks
that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
The Prime Minister joint is Good morning to you. Morning, Mike.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
How are you.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm very well. Indeed, I would, at the risk of
being overtly political, I'd like to congratulate you on what
you did last week, because I read a lot about it,
and what everyone seemed to agree on was it was exhausting.
There was very little downtime, and I noted in your
boys by at the end of it you could barely speak,
so it seems to have been a success. Yeah, Look,
(00:24):
it was a really great week.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Mic. Come in, you come away from a place like India, going, man,
there's so much opportunity. I mean, this is a country
it doesn't You can debate their growth rates and whether
it's enough and all that sort of stuff, but the
bottom line is, you know, man, in the next twenty
thirty fifty years, this place is going to go from
low to middle income and it's working hard to get
to higher income. And there's just you got four hundred
and fifty five million people sitting in the middle class
(00:46):
there that actually have a huge amount from his own.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Products and services.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So and you know, you've got a population of size
bigger than China, and yet we've got probably one twentieth
of the trade being done with India, so I was
really pleased. We had a really good connection with Prome,
Minister Modi on very well that we did some extra
stuff together which was great than planned. We managed to
launch the comprehensive FTA. That'll be a pretty tough conversation now,
but we will do the best deal we can for
(01:10):
New Zealand. And then yeah, we just we had a
good community business delegation who made some good connections to you,
which was great. So no, really, it's just a good
reminder Mike, somebody you can get out of the bubble
and go out in the world and actually feel man,
there's no reason we should be thinking opportunity, not problem.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Quite correct. So you're doing that, Peters is doing rubio
and then you come back home to a pole that's
got you. I can't remember the number. Is that one
of those issues polls that everyone hates you anyway? So
is that deflating?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I didn't come to politics four years ago to
worry about Poles. I came here to get the things
sorted and faxed it on the right track.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So you know, I know what my mission and.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Purposes, which is yep, it's tough for Kiwi's yep, they
want us to go faster. People like you keep pushing
me to go even faster and faster. I get it.
We've got some good things starting to happen. I mean,
we are starting to the turn the corner.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean, you saw the GDP numbers up in the
fourth quarter last year. That's a year after taking government.
You've seen interest rates come down. We're expecting another cuts
in April and May. You're seeing inflation get under control.
I mean, I don't know when you saw the numbers
out of the primary sector, but you know, dairy's looking great.
Red and meat us talking to Nathan guy the other day,
they reckon there's another one point two billion in red
(02:21):
meat this year. Even the wool guys have been in
really a lot of pain. You know, they're doing a
lot better this year. So you know, agriculture's looking good.
Services and manufacturing group the first time. Recently, tourism's up
twenty three percent, So it's coming. It's coming. I know
that's hard for people to hear, and it is really
difficult and it's frustrating, but my god, this is what
happens when you inherit a hell of a mess.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
From that, and I've got to fix it, can you.
I know what you announced yesterday and I applaud you
for that as well, as long as something comes off,
because the announcements on RAMA are more folsome than the
results on RMI. Tell me how you can have a
wind farm. The wind farm was rejected under the previous
government's fast Train I know what you're talking about it right,
How is it you can't have a renewable facility under
(03:03):
fast I mean, what do you need to do well?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I mean, first of all, that's under Parker's old fast
track provisions, which that one I can't come on this
specific project. But what I will say is like that
was insanely stupid. And I mean what we've got under
our fast tracked legislation because our priority is on economic
growth that trumps everything, and I know people give me
grief on that, but I'm sorry. We are over it
and we have to grow.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And so.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Our our priority and fast track legislation is what's going
to drive economic growth regionally or nationally. Projects of that
should be approved. We need more wind farms in this country.
That was a great location for it, you know, let's
see what happens next with that project.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, but then you've got these issues. For example, the
Council's stopping the clock on building is one, and the
Fungal Ray Court decision that came out yesterday on flu
rider is another. How much resistance are you facing from
people who will use every mechanism possible to stall you,
slow you and run their own agenda.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well when we're pretty clear right about it or i am,
which is that we're facing a massive culture in New
Zealand of no. Everyone gets to weaponize the RMA, everyone
gets to say no to everything, everyone gets a comment
on everything, even if it's on people's own property rights.
So you know, the council stuff's classic. I mean, Chris
Penkas for some reporting, they're supposed to know a pre
building consents I think within twenty days buying large up
(04:22):
and down the country, and then what happens is they
issue a request for more information about your deck bracing
or whatever it is that they're trying to get a
building consent for, and then it gets stalled out and
it's insanely stupid. I mean, it now takes us nineteen
months to build as standard three to four bedroom house
in this country and it's fifty percent more expensive than Australia,
forget the land. So you know we have we've got
(04:43):
housing crisis. But either you choose to get to the
root cause the problem, which is this stuff. I know
it's insanely frustrating and it's bureaucracy and it's just treacy,
but we have to keep pushing against it. And that's
why we're saying, look self certification of builders, certainly about
embracing overseas products. The RMA reforms that we're going to do.
I mean RMA has been religion for the last twenty
(05:04):
years or so and just end us whittering and talking
about it. But we've whacked and fast tracked within the
first few weeks we kicked that off, get into government
that's working well or will work well, and then the
RMA reforms with out yesterday is we're going to have
legislation in the House by the end of this year.
I mean normally it goes on for years, like decades,
and you know the last lot made changes under Parker
and the implementation was over a ten year period. I
mean you can't have that. We've got simplified. We have
(05:26):
to simplified planning laws big time to make things, get
things done. So but you're right, there's just I mean,
there's just a culture of no. And that's what I
said earlier in the year. We have to fight that
and say let's start with yes and then then work
from there, not not no, which is what's been happening.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So another example was o ring A Tomariki. So the
under the previous government literally literally know when got evicted.
So the rules change and they can so they start
new people. And yet the other day you want to
go because you're an Indian. But anyway, there's a case
I tom Rooki go to the tendency Tribune. All this
bloke's dealing drugs. You're shooting people. Literally this is kayang Ariam.
Sorry sorry, my apologies coming ah. And so's there is
(06:02):
there's gun violences, threats, less drugs as the usual thing. Anyway,
there's a listening of stuff against the bloke. The tenancy
tribunal goes, no, he can stay because you haven't proved
any of it. I mean, you know that's what you're
up against. So you go, yep, shouldn't thrush. So what
do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, well, you got to keep pushing and having that fight.
I mean, you know, we started that fight again early
on and when we first came to power around you know,
Chrisship did a good job on that around unruly tenants.
There have been endless complaints and I think three people
or something ridiculous evicted from from Crown government houses. These
are houses that your taxpayer colleagues citizens are paying for
you in a tough time to get a state house.
(06:38):
And if you don't treat it with respect, there's twenty
thousand people on the wait lists who desperate would love
to go at having a stay.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
But you say that you'll agree. But by the time
you get to the tenancy tribunal, Brian's there going, oh no,
you didn't prove it, so he can stay. So the
problem is not solved, is it.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
No, But then you've got to you've got to keep
pushing at it, and you've got to keep taking on
the It's a cultural problem we've got right in New Zealand.
We are culturally saying no to stuff and finding excuses
for stuff, and we've actually got to push back on
the culture and when we need to, as we've been
trying to do, then you're rushing through a lot of
legislation under urgency to come in over the top say
we know this is what we are going to do
in this country. This is the law of the land
(07:16):
and we expect it to be upheld. But that notion
whether it's been I've faced the same challenge on benefit sanctions. Right,
I'm sorry, but if you're not out there looking for
a job, which is your job, you're not going to
get a resume together, you're not showing up to interviews,
you're not many with your case manager, then we are
sanctioning your benefits. Now, that's rights and responsibilities. That's a
culture that we had growing up in New Zealand we
need to put back into the country again. And that's
(07:38):
where a lot of this gets into. Its culture of
rights and responsibilities, and it's a culture of yes not no.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I was reading Niicola Willis has got the red flag
up at the moment on the cost of servicing debt.
How worried are you it will approach in the middle
of next year eleven billion dollars on the interest. It's
gone from ten to eleven billion dollars just to service
and interests, and you're still not running surpluses. So you're
adding to it. How big handbreak is that on success looks?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's really hard. I mean, you know, you know the story,
but it's one of the things I don't think the
public have registered from the last lot is that they
inherited five billion of debt and I think they run
it up over one hundred and ten billion. We've now
got an interest bill, which people's mortgages are big, but
now we've got you know, ten to eleven billion of interest.
Think about that. That's more than what we've probably s
been on education, policing, justice, you know, at schools, hospitals, roads,
(08:26):
we can't build because we're just paying a debts back
and we've got nothing for their debt that was run
up by the last lot. Nothing, no better schools, roads, housing, nothing, nothing,
productivity enhancing whatsoever. So that's why you hear me often
say and get pretty fired up about it's economic mismanagement
and vandalism from the last lot, and they just sort
of gas lighting and Brittanian it didn't happen. It did happen,
and it's caused huge pain and suffering for us and
(08:47):
then puts massive pressure on our book.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So it's hard.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I mean it's hard, but we've got to get the
books back into order over time. It's going to take time,
there's no doubt about that. While we're also trying to
sort of, you know, change the know we're sort of
like the car and change in the wheel. At the
same time, we're trying to get the financial discipline in
place to get the books right. But that's not easy.
I mean, it's easy to spend the money. It's easy
to take on debt. It's the easiest option in the world.
(09:10):
Debt is good if it's for productivity, enhancing infrastructure and
good stuff like that. But it wasn't used in that way.
It was just pure consumption and it was out of control,
and it leads to the situation we've got now with
a hangover of an interest bill that is money we
can't spend setting the country up for even more success.
So yep, that's the reality of the cards that I've
been dealt and my government's been dealt. We're working our
(09:30):
way through it, but it does give people a sense
of how difficult it is. But we're determined to put
financial discipline back into the joint.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Again. Appreciate your time, Prime Minster, Christopher life for more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast. Listen live to news talks
that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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