February 23, 2025 • 7 mins
Three Chinese warships have been docked off the coast of Sydney since last week, and they have since been seen carrying out a live weapons drill.
Commercial flights had to be diverted as a result of the exercise, with pilots being told to avoid the area.
Should New Zealand be worried?
Defence Minister Judith Collins talk to Mike Hosking about China's presence in the Pacific.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What a wake up call in the Tasmano. The Chinese
arrivee start firing and tell no one it's not illegal.
It's an international waters under international law. But the old
bee polite part seems to be out the door. And
that's before we get to the details of the Cook's arrangement.
Defense Minister Judith Collins is with us. Very good morning
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Oh good morning mate.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Is it acceptable to behave the way they have, Well,
it is.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Under the UN laws, but it is always best to
give a bit more notice when it comes to lie firing,
particularly when their civil aviation flights and routes cross that area.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is the message more for Australia around Taiwan and they're
exercise than us or we don't.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Know that, Well, we don't know. But what we do
know is that New Zealand and Australia we engage in
going through the Taiwan Straits in the south trying to
see but that is because we are also exiting and transiting.
New Zealand was from New in sanctions monitoring work regarding
(00:59):
North Korea. So there's not many other ways out of
that area except through that particular waterway. So this is
quite an entirely different activity, and we certainly haven't done
any live firing in Northeast Asia.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Will we continue to do that? And if we continue
to do that, will that be seen given what's happened
over the weekend as provocative.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, of course, we will continue to do what we're
supposed to do, which is to help the United Nations
monitor sanctions against North Korea, So of course we will continue.
We will also continue not to do live firing in
that area and will be very careful to make sure
that everyone knows what we're doing. And there we are.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Did Penny one get anything out of the Foreign Minister
at the G twenty? Do you know? And has anyone
asked it?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Now? I'm not sure that I can tell you that.
I've been talking instead with the Australian Defense Minister and
Deputy Prime Minister Richard Mars. So no, Penny was as
very different than mister Peters area.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, as Martin Miles is left, you'll be in the
air going to Washington at the moment.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, there's a lot going on at the moment, and
of course everyone is trying to make sure that we
get to talk with the new administration in the US.
Just as we do with other important partners.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And what did Miles tell you is are they worried?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, I think that they are very much like us.
They're aware of the situation. I don't think that anyone's
particularly worried. We're just aware that this is a new
thing that we've seen, which is an incredibly capable task
group coming down into an area where we haven't seen
them before, and where they've undertaken live firing with only
(02:37):
a few hours notice.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Some suggesting I read over the weekend that part of
the deal with the Solomons, this is them parking themselves
in this part of the world in a more present way.
This is the future.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, I think we need to be very aware that
there is now more geostrategic competition in the Indo Pacific region.
You've seen it in the Cooks. You've said the Solomon's
quite clearly, this is not fifteen years ago. Things have
moved on.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Is this the Americans going to do anything about this?
Do you think? I mean, they must be looking at
this with some level of concern, mustn't they?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, I think they and other countries of the world
are looking at this and saying this is a new development,
and nobody wants to overreact, nobody wants to get to exciteable.
Everyone wants to be very calm and to understand that
while China is completely compliant with the UN con each
the law, to see, it is always quite good to
give people notice, particularly when their civil aviation changes and
(03:35):
flights having to be diverted.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Indeed, and this also deptails in with the Cooks deal,
which we've got some detail on over the weekend. So
the Chinese are here permanently on an ongoing basis in
general terms, How worried is the government about all of this?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Why don't say I'm We're not worried. What we are
very aware and the Cooks is exactly the situation that
we've long said, which is that it about sea bed mining.
So the hole in the specific region run Alum, the
fire is essentially a treasury of resources, particularly on the seabed,
(04:12):
and that's what this is all about. As you can see.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The review that you're conducting and have been for a
sustained period of time. When's that going to be seen
and when are we going to.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Do something in the very near future, Mike, And from
my point of view that it makes it even more important.
I mean, obviously we're talking about a substantial increase for
defense and a plan to actually say this is what
we're doing, and here is the money for it. That
is quite different from what we've seen for quite a
(04:43):
long time.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Good and not a moment too soon. Having said that,
we have no money and in military is expensive, it's billions.
Do we have billions? Will we spend billions? Is this
a billion dollar thing?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well? Everything in defense is expensive, and clearly there are
billions involved. It is simply not credible for us to
expect defense to keep on going after they've had you know,
is centrally thirty five years of every government hoping that
everything's just going to be fine and they wouldn't need
to do anything. It is an enormous task to rebuild,
(05:19):
and our people are doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And so are you going to And I know you're
not going to give it away because it's budgets and
all that sort of stuff. But is it? Is it
billions over many, many, many years? In other words, it's
not the hero and now, or is it billions right
here right now? We've got to do something fairly big.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's a sustained effort as what I can tell you,
and it is a lot of money, It's a heap
of money. But it will also we also know that
the world is changing and we also need to be
through look at that again and say do we need
to do more again so.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
That presumably blows out the debt and the surplus is gone.
This will have major budget relation.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
No, I think it's it's actually about how we do
these things and being very aware that without national security
there is no economic security. There is nothing else.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I'm not arguing with you it's a good thing
and as well overdo. All I'm saying is that if
you're going to suddenly announce billions of dollars in defense,
that wasn't what we were thinking of, and then you
haven't got a surplus and you're suddenly the debts up
through the roof, this is what we're going to see
in the budget. Is it that dramatic or not.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I don't think you'd say it was that dramatic. I
do think, however, that because most of the cap items
take some time, a hit from ordering to getting delivered
and painful, but it is very important to remember that
the way to end up spending due to the Center
of your budget or GDP on defense is to end
(06:43):
up in a situation where you haven't spent a decent
amount beforehand and you do not have anything in the kitty.
So we're very aware of it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
All right, appreciate it very much. Happy birthday both, Oh
think you might.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's so kind of you.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
No worries, Big Dave's. For more from the My Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news Talks at B from six a m. Weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
What a wake up call in the Tasmano. The Chinese
arrivee start firing and tell no one it's not illegal.
It's an international waters under international law. But the old
bee polite part seems to be out the door. And
that's before we get to the details of the Cook's arrangement.
Defense Minister Judith Collins is with us. Very good morning
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Oh good morning mate.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Is it acceptable to behave the way they have, Well,
it is.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Under the UN laws, but it is always best to
give a bit more notice when it comes to lie firing,
particularly when their civil aviation flights and routes cross that area.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is the message more for Australia around Taiwan and they're
exercise than us or we don't.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Know that, Well, we don't know. But what we do
know is that New Zealand and Australia we engage in
going through the Taiwan Straits in the south trying to
see but that is because we are also exiting and transiting.
New Zealand was from New in sanctions monitoring work regarding
(00:59):
North Korea. So there's not many other ways out of
that area except through that particular waterway. So this is
quite an entirely different activity, and we certainly haven't done
any live firing in Northeast Asia.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Will we continue to do that? And if we continue
to do that, will that be seen given what's happened
over the weekend as provocative.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, of course, we will continue to do what we're
supposed to do, which is to help the United Nations
monitor sanctions against North Korea, So of course we will continue.
We will also continue not to do live firing in
that area and will be very careful to make sure
that everyone knows what we're doing. And there we are.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Did Penny one get anything out of the Foreign Minister
at the G twenty? Do you know? And has anyone
asked it?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Now? I'm not sure that I can tell you that.
I've been talking instead with the Australian Defense Minister and
Deputy Prime Minister Richard Mars. So no, Penny was as
very different than mister Peters area.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, as Martin Miles is left, you'll be in the
air going to Washington at the moment.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, there's a lot going on at the moment, and
of course everyone is trying to make sure that we
get to talk with the new administration in the US.
Just as we do with other important partners.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And what did Miles tell you is are they worried?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, I think that they are very much like us.
They're aware of the situation. I don't think that anyone's
particularly worried. We're just aware that this is a new
thing that we've seen, which is an incredibly capable task
group coming down into an area where we haven't seen
them before, and where they've undertaken live firing with only
(02:37):
a few hours notice.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Some suggesting I read over the weekend that part of
the deal with the Solomons, this is them parking themselves
in this part of the world in a more present way.
This is the future.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, I think we need to be very aware that
there is now more geostrategic competition in the Indo Pacific region.
You've seen it in the Cooks. You've said the Solomon's
quite clearly, this is not fifteen years ago. Things have
moved on.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Is this the Americans going to do anything about this?
Do you think? I mean, they must be looking at
this with some level of concern, mustn't they?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, I think they and other countries of the world
are looking at this and saying this is a new development,
and nobody wants to overreact, nobody wants to get to exciteable.
Everyone wants to be very calm and to understand that
while China is completely compliant with the UN con each
the law, to see, it is always quite good to
give people notice, particularly when their civil aviation changes and
(03:35):
flights having to be diverted.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Indeed, and this also deptails in with the Cooks deal,
which we've got some detail on over the weekend. So
the Chinese are here permanently on an ongoing basis in
general terms, How worried is the government about all of this?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Why don't say I'm We're not worried. What we are
very aware and the Cooks is exactly the situation that
we've long said, which is that it about sea bed mining.
So the hole in the specific region run Alum, the
fire is essentially a treasury of resources, particularly on the seabed,
(04:12):
and that's what this is all about. As you can see.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The review that you're conducting and have been for a
sustained period of time. When's that going to be seen
and when are we going to.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Do something in the very near future, Mike, And from
my point of view that it makes it even more important.
I mean, obviously we're talking about a substantial increase for
defense and a plan to actually say this is what
we're doing, and here is the money for it. That
is quite different from what we've seen for quite a
(04:43):
long time.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Good and not a moment too soon. Having said that,
we have no money and in military is expensive, it's billions.
Do we have billions? Will we spend billions? Is this
a billion dollar thing?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well? Everything in defense is expensive, and clearly there are
billions involved. It is simply not credible for us to
expect defense to keep on going after they've had you know,
is centrally thirty five years of every government hoping that
everything's just going to be fine and they wouldn't need
to do anything. It is an enormous task to rebuild,
(05:19):
and our people are doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
And so are you going to And I know you're
not going to give it away because it's budgets and
all that sort of stuff. But is it? Is it
billions over many, many, many years? In other words, it's
not the hero and now, or is it billions right
here right now? We've got to do something fairly big.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's a sustained effort as what I can tell you,
and it is a lot of money, It's a heap
of money. But it will also we also know that
the world is changing and we also need to be
through look at that again and say do we need
to do more again so.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
That presumably blows out the debt and the surplus is gone.
This will have major budget relation.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
No, I think it's it's actually about how we do
these things and being very aware that without national security
there is no economic security. There is nothing else.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I'm not arguing with you it's a good thing
and as well overdo. All I'm saying is that if
you're going to suddenly announce billions of dollars in defense,
that wasn't what we were thinking of, and then you
haven't got a surplus and you're suddenly the debts up
through the roof, this is what we're going to see
in the budget. Is it that dramatic or not.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I don't think you'd say it was that dramatic. I
do think, however, that because most of the cap items
take some time, a hit from ordering to getting delivered
and painful, but it is very important to remember that
the way to end up spending due to the Center
of your budget or GDP on defense is to end
(06:43):
up in a situation where you haven't spent a decent
amount beforehand and you do not have anything in the kitty.
So we're very aware of it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
All right, appreciate it very much. Happy birthday both, Oh
think you might.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's so kind of you.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
No worries, Big Dave's. For more from the My Asking Breakfast,
listen live to news Talks at B from six a m. Weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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