Kiwi Chef Peter Gordon is a staple of New Zealand’s hospitality industry – but he’s had a bit of a change in focus recently.
Hawke’s Bay is set to host New Zealand’s first ever Meatball Festival, with up to 25 vendors filling the city’s CBD on March 14th.
Gordon will share his years of experience with students at the newly reopened Eastern Institute of Technology Culinary School, rolling out a special recipe he’s created and perfected for the occasion.
His meatball offering consists of First Light Farms wagyu beef meatballs with kawakawa salsa verde – a slightly more creative choice than the standard recipe most would be familiar with.
Gordon told Mike Hosking that there’s going to be a real variety of things at the festival, with seafood to pork and everything in between.
“I thought it’s just got to look really pretty, be tasty, and sort of, y’know, do a good service, not a disservice.”
He told Mike Hosking the numbers of students enrolled in culinary schools around New Zealand have dropped off, which is a shame.
“Hospitality is one of our big earners here, and y’know, we export really good kitchen people around the world,” Gordon said.
“It should be a really appealing job.”
Although the hospitality industry is currently struggling, Gordon says there’s always a give and take when it comes to opportunities and new ventures.
“Every day there’s something, y’know, you read in the paper an institution or something is shut down, but at the same time, there are lots of new places opening.”
“There’s always lots going on.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've wanted to get an insight into the HOSPOS sector.
Depending on who you listen to these days depends on
how well it's faring. Right, So the headline material is
we are not spending any number of well established operators
are going to the ball, and yet over summer we
Caddy and I have experienced basically the opposite. There are people,
there are tables that are hard to find, it's impossible
to get a booking. There seems no shortage of good
operators doing just fine, thank you, So some expertise from
(00:23):
Chef Peter Gordon. It also happens, by the way, to
be heading to our first ever meatball festival in Hawks Bay,
and Peter is with us. Very good morning, oh good morning,
and lovely, lovely to see you. Now. We've been wanting
to get you in for ages for a variety of things,
and some of the things I've observed over the holiday
period in terms of the hospitality industry and who's doing
well and who isn't and how you can do well
and so on and so forth. It turns out you're
(00:45):
into the meatballs these days. And for people watching this
on a video, they can see the meatball that you've created,
which is really a meatball plus a whole lot of accoutrement.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It is it kind of it's like it's a mini meal.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it very much. So can you go wrong
with a meatball?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah? I think a meat ball could be really firm
and not pleasant to eat, quite dry, you know, depending
on the meat, if it's made from meat that you've
gotten it, you could have something that's just too floppy,
like not firm, flavoring always, seasoning always. You say, yeah,
there's a lot you can do wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
What have you got here? By the way, this.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Is wugu beef, so it's the first like grass fed
wugu well from around the country. And there's spices, there's ginger,
and there's cloves sorry nutmeg, and that's a little nod
to the meatballs that this whole festival is based around
in Hastings is sort of a Dutch thing and they
(01:47):
use a lot of nutmeg in their meatball. So there's
some of that in there.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So can I where do you go as an expert
in this particular field? So nutmeg does it stand out
with all that you've got going with that meatball?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Interesting? You say that because last night when we ate these,
I thought, dial up the nutmeg. There's nutmeg, and it's
an interesting thing because we think of nutmeg as something
you'd have on a custard tart or a dessert, but
in lots of parts of the world it's using savory
food as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay, what's the history of the meatball?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
This meatball Festival is based around these Hawkes Bay meatballs
that are basically a mince that you cook off, you
thicken with a vegetable sauce, you chill it, you roller
into balls, so at this point it's like a ball
of bolonnaise. And then they flour eggsh and bread crumbed
and deep fry it. So it's like we would call
it a croquette. Okay, yeah, if you think of a croquette,
(02:39):
that's sort of the Hastings meatball and that was I
believe a German immigrant who brought them to Hastings and
they became legendary and now peeps people do them.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Everybody has a meatball experience in their life, don't they.
I mean yeah, I mean it's what mum made, it's
how you do it. It's so and you can put
on the barbering called it. So the rest of what's
going on there? What have you got on top of it?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
On top there some red onions peopled and a little
bit of vinegar carwa Kawa salt severdi. So there's capers
and fresh cowcaara, dried carwakawa horse readdish crispy slots on
top and then a strained yogurt labne whipped up with
olive oil down the bottom.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How did you make that up? That whole thing? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I was thinking when I was asked to be
involved in the meatball festival, I thought, what do you do? Like?
What else is there going to be? And there are
going to be seafood meatballs, there's going to be pork ones,
there's some with power, so they're going to be a
real variety of things. And I thought, it's just got
to look really pretty, be tasty and sort of you know,
do a good service, not a disservice.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Fantastic, And you're doing this with the young people so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, there's students from the it the Technical college there.
They're going to be helping me on Thursday week, Thursday
and Friday next week.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't know if this is in your wheelhouse or not,
but how many of these these institutes are there around
the country. I mean, it's cooking and wanting to work
with food still a big thing.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think. I'm not sure the exact number of colleges
around the country doing it, but it seems that numbers
have dropped off a little bit, and which is a
shame because we need you know, hospitality is one of
our bigger owners here and you know, we export really
good kitchen people around the world, so it should be
(04:22):
a really appealing job.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Fantastic right now, listen what I want to mainly get
you into. But it's part of the problem with hospital
this whole messaging thing around. You know, everything's extremely negative.
You know, no one's spending everyone's closing well.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I think I don't know that the young people are
necessarily listening to that and the way that we probably do,
or that people who own a restaurant. I think it's
just I don't know. There was a period when Jamie
Oliver sort of hit the scene and young people all
around the world flocked to become a chef them My goodness,
I want to be that guy there. So I think
Jamie there is the golden period when Jamie was a
(05:00):
and people felt. But then what happened was a lot
of young people would look at Jaim and go, oh,
he became really famous in two years time. I want
to do that, it's not happening. It would drop out.
So we had this sort of drop out and I
guess I'm talking about the UK where I was living
for a long time, but the I don't know people
at the restaurant. You could be really negative about the
(05:21):
restaurant scene in New Zealand, or you could be really
positive and just say, look, there is going to be attrition.
There's going to be a lot of people who you know,
there are a lot of people having really tough times,
and there are people closing you every day there's something
you know you read in the paper, an institution or
something shut down. But at the same time, there are
lots of new places opening, and there are lots of
young people who've come back to the country or people
(05:43):
who have decided to do something else. Restaurant's gone under,
so someone sees the opportunity and opens it up. So
it's always a given and take. There's always a lots
going on.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
That's why I can't get my head around. There was
a group and I think they called the U Group
in Wellington and they were closing something the other day.
One of them was a fine dining establishment that'd worked
out that fine dining wasn't their things, so they're going
to do something else. But the totality of the piece
I was reading was that actually opened six but closed three.
So therefore that's expansion in simple mass. How much of
(06:14):
that goes on. So in other words, there's a churn
within the industry, and that's just the industry it is.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And but to be fair, I think sometimes I do
think that there are too many restaurants. Like I remember
being in Wellington and people would say, oh, we've got
more restaurants. We had a population than New York, and
I was like, well, you know, in New York no
one really has a kitchen, so that makes sense. But
is it going to work? And is it sustainable? And
you know, you can't control that, but I but sometimes
(06:41):
you do think there's just a lot of places and
if there were less, you know, that'd all be a
lot busier. But of course that's up to people to
decide to take the risk or not. And it is
a risky thing. You know, there's a high percentage of
restaurants in their first twelve months of opening will close.
You know, they won't survive the first year.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And is that it's because of fundamental issues you should
have avoided or things beyond your control that you couldn't
have seen coming.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I'd say it's a bit of both. I think there
are some people who you know, they've made a great
Their friends have told them, you'll roast chicken dinner that
we come around every two months is really good. You
should open a restaurant and they do, you know, so
you get some of that and you get people, and
sometimes it's something else. It's a there's a roadblock, there's
a diversion, there's a there's all sorts of things that
(07:27):
can affect your business. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You see Monsoon Poon, which is for people listening around
the country, is a pretty well established and fairly famous
restaurant in Auckland is closing. But they're closing because the
building's been sold and the buildings is going to get bulldozed.
So there's not a lot you can do about that.
So where are you at? It's one of the great
restaurateurs of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, I think my restaurateur days may have ended. Really,
I mean, we vacated our building because it's being developed
and we're not part of the future of that. So,
you know, we we had to figure out what we're
going to do with that, and I with Homeland itself.
Homeland was more than just the restaurant, you know, for us,
Homeland was a cooking school. Homeland was a place where
we did work with producers and we did a lot
(08:08):
of charity work with communities, and that was for me,
it was the perfect job. Was after all these years
in the industry, I'm now finally in a place where
all this good stuff, not just cooking the fancy food
and put it on the plate, was happening. But we've
decided We've been looking around. We've had a few sites
offered to us, and we've looked at them and thought,
do we want to do we want to do this,
(08:29):
we want to take on this risk. Do we want
to sign up another five, eight, ten year lease with someone?
You know, what's our risk? What's what do we want
to do? And I think actually the stuff that I
really loved at Homeland is the producer work, is producing goods,
our own Homeland products and stuff, and that's the stuff
that we're going to focus on. So moving forward, well,
we won't have bricks and mortar, you know, we'll just
(08:52):
do consultancy where you know, I can go into a
space and I can give them, you know, years of
wisdom hopefully and you know, and in part really good
information and good stuff, but not take on the risk
of the land or.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And does that and does that? Does is that? What's that?
A reflection of just where you're at in life as
opposed to the industry or anything else.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I think that's where I am. Yeah, it's where I am,
and I'll be sixty two shortly, and I've sort of
done most of the things that I ever wanted to do,
you know, like I've done restaurants in different countries, I've
cooked amazing dinners, I've done ranges of food for this
and it's really just what what do I want? That's
a bit less stressful, that is quite fun, that doesn't
(09:33):
carry a lot of risk with it. And I think
sort of consulting, working on a range of products, homeland products,
still doing producer work, you know, we would often have
at homeland. You might get the specific trade investment would
bring five nations into the country, into homeland and we'd
sort of work with them. So it's now looking and thinking,
you know, maybe what I can do with some outreach
(09:55):
work going to other places and you know, doing that fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Well, let me grab this. I emigranted this play and
so I know that that the cowa car was very
you though, isn't it? That's having eaten a number of
your places over the years, that that's your sort of thing,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, it's one of our indigenous herbs that you can
sort of relatively easily access. And that cower car is
from our place, our house out at Peahart grows wild everywhere.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So yeah, how long did this take you to make?
From woe to Go?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I made that yesterday, probably in an hour or so,
less than an hour. I mean, I've been I had
the idea, i'd had the concept, put it all together,
did bit of shopping, got home, and then you know,
the yogurt had to be hung overnight, onions had to
be pickled for a couple of hours.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But that's superb. Oh, thank you, it's just beautiful. What
would you charge for that?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I think that's probably going to be sort of in
the eight or nine dollar mark.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That's a bargain to me for that. I mean that's
like that's a school Lunchipeter.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Good luck with the good luck with the festival, and
appreciate your advice and in the industry as well. Good
to talk to you, Good to talk better Gordon with us.
By the way, the meatball will meet balls as he's
made for three of them and as always on the
video if you want to go to the website, you
can see me eating a meatball. Well, let's kind of
do something for your Thursday.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
I've wanted to get an insight into the HOSPOS sector.
Depending on who you listen to these days depends on
how well it's faring. Right, So the headline material is
we are not spending any number of well established operators
are going to the ball, and yet over summer we
Caddy and I have experienced basically the opposite. There are people,
there are tables that are hard to find, it's impossible
to get a booking. There seems no shortage of good
operators doing just fine, thank you, So some expertise from
(00:23):
Chef Peter Gordon. It also happens, by the way, to
be heading to our first ever meatball festival in Hawks Bay,
and Peter is with us. Very good morning, oh good morning,
and lovely, lovely to see you. Now. We've been wanting
to get you in for ages for a variety of things,
and some of the things I've observed over the holiday
period in terms of the hospitality industry and who's doing
well and who isn't and how you can do well
and so on and so forth. It turns out you're
(00:45):
into the meatballs these days. And for people watching this
on a video, they can see the meatball that you've created,
which is really a meatball plus a whole lot of accoutrement.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It is it kind of it's like it's a mini meal.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I think it very much. So can you go wrong
with a meatball?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah? I think a meat ball could be really firm
and not pleasant to eat, quite dry, you know, depending
on the meat, if it's made from meat that you've
gotten it, you could have something that's just too floppy,
like not firm, flavoring always, seasoning always. You say, yeah,
there's a lot you can do wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
What have you got here? By the way, this.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Is wugu beef, so it's the first like grass fed
wugu well from around the country. And there's spices, there's ginger,
and there's cloves sorry nutmeg, and that's a little nod
to the meatballs that this whole festival is based around
in Hastings is sort of a Dutch thing and they
(01:47):
use a lot of nutmeg in their meatball. So there's
some of that in there.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So can I where do you go as an expert
in this particular field? So nutmeg does it stand out
with all that you've got going with that meatball?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Interesting? You say that because last night when we ate these,
I thought, dial up the nutmeg. There's nutmeg, and it's
an interesting thing because we think of nutmeg as something
you'd have on a custard tart or a dessert, but
in lots of parts of the world it's using savory
food as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay, what's the history of the meatball?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
This meatball Festival is based around these Hawkes Bay meatballs
that are basically a mince that you cook off, you
thicken with a vegetable sauce, you chill it, you roller
into balls, so at this point it's like a ball
of bolonnaise. And then they flour eggsh and bread crumbed
and deep fry it. So it's like we would call
it a croquette. Okay, yeah, if you think of a croquette,
(02:39):
that's sort of the Hastings meatball and that was I
believe a German immigrant who brought them to Hastings and
they became legendary and now peeps people do them.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Everybody has a meatball experience in their life, don't they.
I mean yeah, I mean it's what mum made, it's
how you do it. It's so and you can put
on the barbering called it. So the rest of what's
going on there? What have you got on top of it?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
On top there some red onions peopled and a little
bit of vinegar carwa Kawa salt severdi. So there's capers
and fresh cowcaara, dried carwakawa horse readdish crispy slots on
top and then a strained yogurt labne whipped up with
olive oil down the bottom.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
How did you make that up? That whole thing? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I was thinking when I was asked to be
involved in the meatball festival, I thought, what do you do? Like?
What else is there going to be? And there are
going to be seafood meatballs, there's going to be pork ones,
there's some with power, so they're going to be a
real variety of things. And I thought, it's just got
to look really pretty, be tasty and sort of you know,
do a good service, not a disservice.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Fantastic, And you're doing this with the young people so
to speak.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, there's students from the it the Technical college there.
They're going to be helping me on Thursday week, Thursday
and Friday next week.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't know if this is in your wheelhouse or not,
but how many of these these institutes are there around
the country. I mean, it's cooking and wanting to work
with food still a big thing.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think. I'm not sure the exact number of colleges
around the country doing it, but it seems that numbers
have dropped off a little bit, and which is a
shame because we need you know, hospitality is one of
our bigger owners here and you know, we export really
good kitchen people around the world, so it should be
(04:22):
a really appealing job.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Fantastic right now, listen what I want to mainly get
you into. But it's part of the problem with hospital
this whole messaging thing around. You know, everything's extremely negative.
You know, no one's spending everyone's closing well.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I think I don't know that the young people are
necessarily listening to that and the way that we probably do,
or that people who own a restaurant. I think it's
just I don't know. There was a period when Jamie
Oliver sort of hit the scene and young people all
around the world flocked to become a chef them My goodness,
I want to be that guy there. So I think
Jamie there is the golden period when Jamie was a
(05:00):
and people felt. But then what happened was a lot
of young people would look at Jaim and go, oh,
he became really famous in two years time. I want
to do that, it's not happening. It would drop out.
So we had this sort of drop out and I
guess I'm talking about the UK where I was living
for a long time, but the I don't know people
at the restaurant. You could be really negative about the
(05:21):
restaurant scene in New Zealand, or you could be really
positive and just say, look, there is going to be attrition.
There's going to be a lot of people who you know,
there are a lot of people having really tough times,
and there are people closing you every day there's something
you know you read in the paper, an institution or
something shut down. But at the same time, there are
lots of new places opening, and there are lots of
young people who've come back to the country or people
(05:43):
who have decided to do something else. Restaurant's gone under,
so someone sees the opportunity and opens it up. So
it's always a given and take. There's always a lots
going on.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
That's why I can't get my head around. There was
a group and I think they called the U Group
in Wellington and they were closing something the other day.
One of them was a fine dining establishment that'd worked
out that fine dining wasn't their things, so they're going
to do something else. But the totality of the piece
I was reading was that actually opened six but closed three.
So therefore that's expansion in simple mass. How much of
(06:14):
that goes on. So in other words, there's a churn
within the industry, and that's just the industry it is.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And but to be fair, I think sometimes I do
think that there are too many restaurants. Like I remember
being in Wellington and people would say, oh, we've got
more restaurants. We had a population than New York, and
I was like, well, you know, in New York no
one really has a kitchen, so that makes sense. But
is it going to work? And is it sustainable? And
you know, you can't control that, but I but sometimes
(06:41):
you do think there's just a lot of places and
if there were less, you know, that'd all be a
lot busier. But of course that's up to people to
decide to take the risk or not. And it is
a risky thing. You know, there's a high percentage of
restaurants in their first twelve months of opening will close.
You know, they won't survive the first year.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And is that it's because of fundamental issues you should
have avoided or things beyond your control that you couldn't
have seen coming.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I'd say it's a bit of both. I think there
are some people who you know, they've made a great
Their friends have told them, you'll roast chicken dinner that
we come around every two months is really good. You
should open a restaurant and they do, you know, so
you get some of that and you get people, and
sometimes it's something else. It's a there's a roadblock, there's
a diversion, there's a there's all sorts of things that
(07:27):
can affect your business. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You see Monsoon Poon, which is for people listening around
the country, is a pretty well established and fairly famous
restaurant in Auckland is closing. But they're closing because the
building's been sold and the buildings is going to get bulldozed.
So there's not a lot you can do about that.
So where are you at? It's one of the great
restaurateurs of New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, I think my restaurateur days may have ended. Really,
I mean, we vacated our building because it's being developed
and we're not part of the future of that. So,
you know, we we had to figure out what we're
going to do with that, and I with Homeland itself.
Homeland was more than just the restaurant, you know, for us,
Homeland was a cooking school. Homeland was a place where
we did work with producers and we did a lot
(08:08):
of charity work with communities, and that was for me,
it was the perfect job. Was after all these years
in the industry, I'm now finally in a place where
all this good stuff, not just cooking the fancy food
and put it on the plate, was happening. But we've
decided We've been looking around. We've had a few sites
offered to us, and we've looked at them and thought,
do we want to do we want to do this,
(08:29):
we want to take on this risk. Do we want
to sign up another five, eight, ten year lease with someone?
You know, what's our risk? What's what do we want
to do? And I think actually the stuff that I
really loved at Homeland is the producer work, is producing goods,
our own Homeland products and stuff, and that's the stuff
that we're going to focus on. So moving forward, well,
we won't have bricks and mortar, you know, we'll just
(08:52):
do consultancy where you know, I can go into a
space and I can give them, you know, years of
wisdom hopefully and you know, and in part really good
information and good stuff, but not take on the risk
of the land or.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And does that and does that? Does is that? What's that?
A reflection of just where you're at in life as
opposed to the industry or anything else.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I think that's where I am. Yeah, it's where I am,
and I'll be sixty two shortly, and I've sort of
done most of the things that I ever wanted to do,
you know, like I've done restaurants in different countries, I've
cooked amazing dinners, I've done ranges of food for this
and it's really just what what do I want? That's
a bit less stressful, that is quite fun, that doesn't
(09:33):
carry a lot of risk with it. And I think
sort of consulting, working on a range of products, homeland products,
still doing producer work, you know, we would often have
at homeland. You might get the specific trade investment would
bring five nations into the country, into homeland and we'd
sort of work with them. So it's now looking and thinking,
you know, maybe what I can do with some outreach
(09:55):
work going to other places and you know, doing that fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Well, let me grab this. I emigranted this play and
so I know that that the cowa car was very
you though, isn't it? That's having eaten a number of
your places over the years, that that's your sort of thing,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, it's one of our indigenous herbs that you can
sort of relatively easily access. And that cower car is
from our place, our house out at Peahart grows wild everywhere.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So yeah, how long did this take you to make?
From woe to Go?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I made that yesterday, probably in an hour or so,
less than an hour. I mean, I've been I had
the idea, i'd had the concept, put it all together,
did bit of shopping, got home, and then you know,
the yogurt had to be hung overnight, onions had to
be pickled for a couple of hours.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But that's superb. Oh, thank you, it's just beautiful. What
would you charge for that?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I think that's probably going to be sort of in
the eight or nine dollar mark.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That's a bargain to me for that. I mean that's
like that's a school Lunchipeter.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Good luck with the good luck with the festival, and
appreciate your advice and in the industry as well. Good
to talk to you, Good to talk better Gordon with us.
By the way, the meatball will meet balls as he's
made for three of them and as always on the
video if you want to go to the website, you
can see me eating a meatball. Well, let's kind of
do something for your Thursday.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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