Full Show Podcast: 27 April 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter Wolfcamp
from News Talk Seat by Squeaky Door.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Or Squeaky Floor.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcamp, the Resident Builder
on news Talk Sead Bay.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
The house sizzle even when it's dark, even when the
grass is overgrown in the yard, even when the dog
is too old to barn, And when you're sitting at
the table trying not to start house scissor.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Hole, even when we've a ban, even when you're the
house sizz a home.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Even when there's ghost even when you go around from
the ones you.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Love your more.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Scream does broken pans Being in front of the locals
Westball when they're gone leaving never has, even.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
When Wilbaan, even when you're in there alone.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
And a very very good morning and welcome along to
the Resident Builder on Sunday. My name is Peter wolf Camp,
the Resident Builder, and this is an opportunity to talk
all things building and construction. And by when I say
all things, I really do mean all things. It's the
rules and the regulation, it's the planning and the preparation.
It's about the contractor selection. Who do you get to

(02:01):
come and do the work. At your place. If you're
going to be contracting someone, do you know when you
need to get a contractor and when you could do
it yourself. And if you are going to do it yourself,
what sort of gear do you need? What type of
materials do you need? I was going to say in there,
I was going to toss into there, how much time
do you need? Because I have this theory that I

(02:23):
think an enormous amount of the frustration that we might
get from doing jobs ourselves and sort of getting stressed
out about it is that we don't allow ourselves the
time that we're often unrealistic about. Well, look, it'll take
me a couple of hours, it'll take me a couple
of days, and you kind of know in your hard
hearts that in fact, it's going to take more than that.

(02:45):
And so if you give yourself the right amount of time,
you won't get as stressed out. I think you certainly
won't get as sort of frustrated with the process. It
was funny yesterday, just by the bye I was I
had one job that I needed to do yesterday which
I didn't want to do, and it was kind of
fixing a mistake I'd pulled all these ballusters off, and

(03:09):
I wanted to seal the ends. I'm rebuilding a veranda,
so I wanted to seal the end. So I had
them standing upright in buckets of metal X for a
couple of hours soak this timber preservative up into the
end grain of the ballisters colonial ballisters turn ballusters, and
then I would flip them over and then I would
soak the other end. And I thought, well, before I

(03:29):
start reassembling the veranda handrail, I'll do this to seal
the ends. And it was so I did it. I
got a whole bunch of them, stuck them in a bucket.
Once I figured it had sucked up enough timber preservative,
I've flipped them over. But in doing that in the
initial stages, there was quite a lot of product on there.

(03:51):
So I flipped them over and all the product ran
down the ballister. So now I've got this sticky timber
preservative all the way down these old ballisters, which I've
got to get rid of before I can start painting them,
and certainly before I can reassemble it. Anyway, I'd sat
on my desk on my workshop bench, drying out for
about a week or so and then yesterday I was

(04:12):
staring at them, thinking, I'm just going to have to
do this job. And if I do it today and
I get it finished today, and I've given myself the
time to do it today, I'll be a lot less frustrated. Anyway,
I got it done, which was good. Now I've got
to sand all the edges. Sanding round ballasters is not
the most pleasant job in the world. I thought about
setting up like a little lathe type arrangement. I'm building
a bit of a jig that I can turn them

(04:33):
around and then I could sort of have them spinning
while I try and paint them as well. But I
also figured that it might take me a couple of
hours to sort of set up a jig and make
a pulley and work out the gearing and all the
rest of it. Maybe I should just get on with
it with a bit of sandpaper and get it done.
So if you need to get stuff done and you
want to talk about getting stuff done, we can do

(04:54):
that on the program this morning. Oh, eight hundred eighty
ten eighty is the number to call. You can text
as well, which is nine two nine two or zbz
bee from your mobile phone. And if you'd like to
email me, I remember my password it is. I was
going to say what my password is. I won't do that,
but my email is Pete Atnewstalk sb dot co dot nz.

(05:15):
So I trust that you're well. I trust that if
you've been doing some projects they've been going okay. If
they're not going okay, we can certainly talk about that
as well. So eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number to call. A little bit later on the show,
I do want to talk about that fire that happened
on Friday nights. So if you had a look at

(05:35):
the news or if you were in an Auckland, particularly
if you're on the north shore of Auckland, you may
have seen it. This was a what became a very
large fire at the Abilities Recycling center on Hillside Road
on the north Shore in Wiral Park area. And it

(05:56):
started late in the day, like about five thirty or
something like that, a little bit earlier, and lots of
fire engines there. It took a while to get the
fire under control. The building is completely destroyed, seemingly, but
more importantly, the lives of the people that work there

(06:16):
is going to be significantly disrupted as well. As a
disruption to a significant player and participant in recycling in Auckland.
They for many years have done an outstanding job with recycling.
I guess the sort of stuff that other centers and
other groups might not be that interested in recycling. So

(06:37):
over the years I've dropped off lots of polystyrene there.
I've certainly dropped off lots of cardboard. I've dropped off
lots of old electronics, you know, an old laptop or
some other devices, that sort of thing. They literally took
almost anything and were part very essential part of recycling
in Auckland. So it's going to be incredibly disruptive for

(06:57):
that side of things. But more importantly, the Abilities Group
have always provided employment and activity for people who would
not otherwise to be blunt find somewhere to go and work.
They did an exceptional job working with people and giving
meaning to people's lives. So hopefully they can be up

(07:18):
and running again. Nothing's going to be quick, but we
do want to see them up and running. I'll talk
a little bit more about it later on the show.
Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call
lots to talk about lots. We can chat about if
you would like to talk about projects that you're doing,
products that you might have seen, new ideas that are
coming to market. We can talk about all of these things.

(07:39):
So eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call,
and a bit of a heads up too, next weekend
on the program, So next Sunday, No, not next Sunday,
the Sunday after the Minister for Building in Construction, Minister
Chris Pink, will be in the studio with us, So
not next Sunday, but the following Sunday. Really looking forward

(08:01):
to being able to have more of a chat with
Chris Pink about a whole lot of things. And certainly
there's been a whole lot of announcements around self certification,
around remote inspections, around the role of BCA's, around the
potential that we could build up to seventy square meters
without necessarily requiring a building consent, et cetera, et cetera.

(08:23):
Lots to unpack. So the Minister's coming into the studio
and part of that will be an opportunity for you
to ask questions as well. So looking forward to that,
but that's not for another two weeks because right now
it's your opportunity. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty call
us now, we've got plenty of time. We've got Bryce
on the show as well. Bryce is our painting expert.
He'll be joining us at around seven thirty this morning,

(08:45):
and of course, as always we'll be in the garden
with th read climb passed from eight point thirty this morning.
Lines are open. Call us now, OH eight hundred eighty
ten eighty.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
For helping you get those DIY projects done right. The
resident fielder with Peter WOLFCAF call oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty us talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
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(10:06):
give them a call on eight hundred three two seven
three six zero. That's eight hundred three two seven three
six zero. Z be you and his talk zaid B.
If we're talking all things building and construction, you can
talk about that as well with us, ask questions, have
a bit of a debate or a discussion about building

(10:26):
and maintenance repairs. I think it's this time of year
that we it feels like it wasn't that long ago
that it was sort of I was thinking, gosh, it's
a bit too hot to work outside, and now I'm
looking I'm thinking about doing jobs outside, thinking when's the
next fine day coming along? But there is still an
opportunity or that's what I'm telling myself anyway, that if

(10:49):
you started a project outside and you haven't quite finished it,
and I've got two or three of those on the
go right now, it's don't give up. There's still time
to get those essential repairs and maintenance done before we
settle into winter. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty the number
to call twenty after six. Hello, Albi, good, good morning.

Speaker 5 (11:09):
Yeah, I loven't christ I ears quite I as you
paid long lie out just on the million dollars, but
I need to keep it. Yeah. My question to you,

(11:30):
I love and around I have it makes you still quite?
Una wall M can I or take any more or
like or put any bee I like? When ye?

Speaker 2 (11:52):
No, basically and then sorry it's the call is very faint,
but so I might get you to speak up as well.
So essentially what you're saying is you're in a house.
Obviously it's head smoothquake damage. Have the repairs being completed?

Speaker 5 (12:11):
There done at all?

Speaker 2 (12:14):
No repairs done at all? Okay, there was.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
There's a good quite well, just because.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
It's a little bit challenging to hear. Look, i'd give
this advice one is I mean, look, it's it's kind
of sad or disappointing to hear that there's still remedia
work that still needs to be done as a result
of earthquakes that are now what thirteen years ago. Putting
that aside, obviously, if it is damage relating to the earthquake,
you need to work through EQC or whatever remains of them,

(12:55):
and certainly typically removing walls. You can remove a non
load bearing wall without necessarily requiring a building consent, but
determining which are the non load bearing walls is something
that you need to get professional advice on. And even
if it was non load bearing, it might provide some bracing,

(13:15):
in which case you need to provide additional bracing somewhere else.
So the short answer is, most of the time, if
you're making significant changes like that, removing a wall is
a significant change, you need to have a building consent
for that, and the building consent will then set out
the process for adding beams, lintols, bracing, etc.

Speaker 6 (13:35):
Etc.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
So it sounds like most of what you're talking about
will need a building consent. Thanks for the call. Alb
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. Jerry are very good morning, good morning, Better,
Good day, Jerry.

Speaker 7 (13:50):
Good day better. I always loved, loved thinking about the
whole subject of housing, and and now you hear the
government even talking about perhaps helping people with granny flats
and things like that. I would like to ask you,
have you ever heard of people living in converted hothouses

(14:15):
to the point where they can actually have a kitchen
and a living room and bedroom, you know, inside inside
such a situation.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
What springs to mind for me is there's a relatively
well known building, I think it's just outside of Wellington,
which was designed by an architect some time ago, which
looks a lot like a hothouse, right, so it's over
the majority of the building, it looks like a greenhouse
or a glasshouse or a hothouse, and then within that

(14:48):
space is the main living space for the dwelling, with
the theory being that you'd create this environment which allowed
you to cultivate plants. I'm not absolutely sure about it,
but I'm quite intrigued about it. Someone has moved into
it recently and is looking to renovate and extend it.

(15:10):
So in that sense, it's that there is a theory
and there's a tradition around these types of sort of
living buildings, let's say flip side to that is, anything
that you want to do still needs to comply with
the building code. And the greatest challenge that I could
see with trying to live in an environment like that

(15:33):
is how you would achieve the energy requirements in terms
of insulation, because as you know, as we've started to see,
we need to move away from single glazing to double
glazing to retain heat or to resist heat. So that
would be the biggest change. And again, anything if you're
going to live in something like this, you still it

(15:54):
needs to be compliant, it needs to meet the building code.
That would be quite challenging.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (16:04):
Can I just pass on a very quick question when
you talk to Rude in a few hours about how
how he perhaps in many years from now, not not today,
but many years from now, he might establish a public

(16:28):
flower garden because he obviously he's a gardener, and and
and I was thinking, you know, with his expertise, there
could come a day when we could literally visit some
land somewhere here in New Zealand where he would have
a garden. It would be called the Rude public garden.

(16:53):
And and you know, obviously would take a lot of
money and a lot of effort, and so on and
so forth. But could you ask him if if there's
any possibility of that being a possibility with his future plans.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'll certainly ask him, but I'll also be a bit
presumptuous and say I actually think that. I think partly
he probably doesn't want to draw that much attention to
himself because that's the nature, that's his nature. But also,
and I've said this to him, so I'm not saying

(17:27):
something that I wouldn't say to his face. I think
the great legacy of Rude's work will be in the
vast numbers of people involved in ecological restoration in gardens,
in rewilding areas that have come out of his passion
for the environment. So I think already now around the

(17:50):
country there would be and I say this quite honestly,
thousands of people who are involved in replanting and making
gardens and so on as a result of his influence
and his inspiration. So he's already got lots of gardens
around the country, is how I would see it. But
I will ask where are they?

Speaker 7 (18:11):
Are they open to the public?

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah? Yeah, Because I think one of the I know
we're strained from the topic, but just briefly, one of
the things that I think is really exciting at the
moment is almost every community that I know of now,
or lots and lots of communities that I know, have
got like little local ecological societies that are actively involved

(18:36):
in planting and restoration of natural environments inside their community.
I know where I live there's a very active group.
They'll be doing weed clearing and preparation this afternoon, right
from two o'clock to four o'clock. And this is right
across the country, so I think it would take you,

(18:58):
you know, and if I went to the next suburb,
but there's the Kaipara Tiki Restoration Society, And if you
went further up, you'd find another group that are working
at Lucas Creek. And then you you know, everywhere there
are groups that are doing this sort of work. And yes,
all of that, well, it's not even a closed garden.
It's your public space that's being looked after and restored
by these sorts of groups. I think that's fantastic. So

(19:22):
but I will put it to them, and I'm sure
someone will say, hey, they were talking about you, and
it wasn't even your part of the show. Very good,
thank you us talking with you. Thanks Jerry, all the best.
Bye by then. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty. I'm
not sure. I don't know if it's up at this
hour of the day. I don't think he has to
listen to all of the program just because he's at

(19:44):
the end of this program. But I meant what I
said in terms of his impact. I eight hundred eighty
ten eighty is the number to call twenty nine minutes
after six here at news Talk se Be if you
would like to have a chat about all things building construction.
The lines are open the number eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Text are up and running as well. That's nine to

(20:04):
nine two and if you'd like to email me, it's
Pete at Newstalk zb dot co dot nz Gerald A
very good morning.

Speaker 8 (20:12):
Good morning, how are you very well?

Speaker 9 (20:13):
For if you put a a granny type flat on
a block of land less than three meters and you
put a log fire, and does that have to be
does that have to be permitted?

Speaker 2 (20:26):
That's a very good question to the answer is, we
don't know. And part of the reason we don't know
is because while this type of legislation is being discussed,
it's not law yet, and I think that's probably going
to be something that the Minister will be quite keen

(20:47):
to emphasize when he joins us in two weeks time,
is that, you know, it doesn't right now. You can't
go out and do this stuff right And undoubtedly there'll
be people thinking, well, because they've talked about it, we
can start and once the legislation comes through. See, I
think something like that is high risk. That I think

(21:10):
the word high risk is something that we're going to
hear a lot more about when we're talking about work
that could be done without necessarily requiring a building consent.
So for example, on the granny flat, it's single story,
it's single story, the height of the building away from
a boundary, you know, these sorts of things. So in

(21:32):
the event that let's say somebody does build a granny
flat in their backyard without a consent and doesn't build
it particularly well and it falls over. When it does
fall over, it just falls onto their land, doesn't hit
the neighbor's property, doesn't hit another house. Hence the ruling
around it. You know, and it's not too storied because obviously,
if something too story falls over, it's going to cause

(21:54):
a lot more damage than something single story falling over.
And in the same way, I think that if you
wanted to put a fire in, which obviously then has
the risk of creating a fire inadvertently and burning the
house down, that would no longer be considered low risk,
and so then it would trigger the requirement maybe just

(22:15):
to get a building consent for the fireplace. But I
think it should be consented.

Speaker 10 (22:21):
Okay, okay, I just put the question to you.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, yeah, And you know this is where I think
this whole discussion. You know, at a real high level,
we can talk about or government can talk about, oh,
we will allow people to build without a consent, will
do self certification. But it's when you drill down into
the detail that suddenly you keep coming up against these

(22:46):
these barriers or these issues that you have to resolve,
And yours is a really good one. So you know,
you're going to build something maybe seventy square meters, you're
going to have a family living in that. Families can
live in seventy square meters, and they want to do
a fixed form of heating, and maybe they want to
go off grid so they want to install a fireplace.
I think that sort of thing should be consented because
it's high risk, but we don't know because the legislation

(23:10):
hasn't been written yet. Okay, stand by all the best,
all the best bother. Then sounds like that sort of
army thing, isn't it. Hurry up and wait, hurry up,
hurry up, hurry up, wait, hurry up, harry o.

Speaker 6 (23:26):
Wait.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
And that's a little bit how the legislation will go
over the next little while. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call if you've got a building
question or you know, sort of the broad stuff around
lots of changes coming to the building regulations. How do
we understand them? What's likely to happen? And I think

(23:50):
it's really important to make this point. None of this
is law right now. So if you're thinking great, I'm
going to order a packet of framing and start cobbling
together a seventy square meter granny flat on the back section.
You can't right now. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty number
the call. We'll talk to Ross after the break measure
twice God was but maybe called Pete first. Peter Walk

(24:13):
The Resident Builder News talk said, be right, oh my turn,
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call and text by all means as well, nine
two nine two from your mobile phone. Ross. Good morning
to you, Pete.

Speaker 10 (24:29):
Got a one of those shows in the corner, you
know with the round but where the door is. Yep,
we're just going to go and we're going to we're
taken out of bath.

Speaker 11 (24:37):
Yes, and we're going to put a wise or more
oblong in case we went because of delth reasons. Right,
so put one of those oblong runs in a week,
but you know better. Yes, Now we're going to hook
it up to where the bath was, so we get

(24:59):
is it can we just do that without a permit?

Speaker 2 (25:02):
The type of shower that you're buying is it essentially
a kit so it's got a floor and walls and
the doors. Right, yes, so we took about that.

Speaker 10 (25:15):
We're gonna hook it up to the same pipes of
baths walked up to.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, well you need to move them slightly, won't you,
because chance today you'll have to cut a bit of
the wall lining out, extend the pipes up, put a
mixer on. You're going to use a registered plumber to
do that work, I presume, yeah, yeah, okay, So just
because this is something that, to be fair, I find
the legislations a little bit murky on this, and I've

(25:40):
had any number of discussions, so essentially, to me, no, no, no, no, no,
it doesn't Actually in this instance, I'm pretty confident about
what I'm saying and how the legislations interpreted. So what
makes your projects slightly different to others is the fact
that you've got what I would call a pre formed shower, right,

(26:00):
So it's a kit set shower. It's got the tray,
it's got the wall lining, and it's got the doors
in it. Because you're not adding the number of sanitary
fittings to the bathroom, which would typically trigger a requirement
for a building consent. So where you had a bath
and a shower, you've now got basically just a shower,
so you're not adding it, you're not removing any walls

(26:23):
or anything like that. Essentially everything's in the same space.
You can do that work under Schedule one of the
Building Act. It needs to be done in accordance with
the Building Code, so you need to have a registered
plumber do the pipework and so on. But yeah, you can.
You can do that.

Speaker 10 (26:41):
Yeah, that's what I thought. So but when I said no,
where you're told you, I said, that sounds like a no,
I mean no permit.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, okay. So you know where people typically get tripped
up is that you know you've got a situation like that,
you pull it out and you do a tile shower,
and tile showers because of the waterproofing, and because the
waterproofing is bespoke typically for the tile shower, that often

(27:10):
triggers a requirement for a building consent because we want
to know how the waterproofing was done, by whom, what
products we used, et cetera. But then it gets a
little bit murky because if it's a level entry or
if it's got a hob or an upstand around it,
it seems there's different requirements for those two things. But

(27:31):
I raise it because it's it still confuses me and
I've had I've had endless discussions with people about it.
In fact, next time I see the old Jeff Barrenson
who's the chief Building Inspector for Auckland Council, I must
just go, what's the rule? Please? So I'll put that
on my list of things to do.

Speaker 10 (27:51):
Yeah, in my mind, if you want to have problems
with the share it, And isn't it.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
In a sense, isn't it kind of sad that we've
got to that point because I'm thinking back to my
own place, right which we renovated the bathroom crikey, probably
more than twenty years ago, put in a tile shower.
Do I have a problem with it? No, I don't,
you know, well not to the best of my knowledge.
And I've been underneath the floor to have a look,

(28:18):
and I've had a look at the walls around the
shower enclosure. I can't see any evidence that it's leaking
or anything like that. So, you know, I think the
vast majority of showers can be done properly. In fact,
they all should be able to be done properly. And
typically when there has been a failure, it's been quite
clear that, you know, the person who's done the work

(28:40):
just really they've either been lazy or they've been deliberately
negligent or something like that. You know, Yeah, well, yeah,
it's probably more just lack of knowledge. Yeah, buddy, good
luck for that project. Take care, see buddy, righty, Oh,
so that was nice, simple what oh eight hundred and

(29:02):
eighty ten eighty is the number to call. I mean,
there is actually a reason noble amount of work that
you can do without necessarily requiring a building consent. You know,
it's a reasonable amount, but work that is critical, work
that is high risk, work that involves weather tighteners, structural stability,

(29:25):
water proofing, these sorts of things still typically trigger the
requirement for a building consent. I do wish, and I've
mentioned this number of times on the show. I do
wish that government when they made recent changes to schedule
one of the Building Act extending the type of work
that you could do without requiring consent, added into that
the or took out of that, let's say, the requirement

(29:49):
to get a building consent for retrospectively fitting insulation to
existing exterior walls, given that there's still a desperate need
to do that type of work. Less and less seemingly
every week, the number of completely uninsulated houses in New

(30:09):
Zealand is actually dropping at a reasonable rate, but it's
still something that you know, most people want to have
a go at. It's work that's really really important. But technically,
right now, if you decide to pull off some interior
lining and add insulation to that room. Example I always
use as you know, maybe you bought a house, you're

(30:29):
starting a family. You decide that you want to make
babies room nice and warm, so you pull the wall
lining off before baby arrives and put some insulation. And
if you do that without a consent, technically you've breached
the Building Act. So is that sort of work something
that could be done and signed off by an LBP?
I think it could be anyway, Oh, eight, one hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number call quick text

(30:52):
before the break or two? Actually, how hard is it
to get final CCC signed off on a house that
was built five years ago that you buy? Okay, So
it sounds like, look, if something who's built five years
ago and they didn't get a CCC, it's foolish on
the part of the person who did the work. We've

(31:16):
known for a long time that you need to get
that done within a relatively short period of time, and
it just gets harder and harder to do. It will
require a reinspection, it will require an enormous amount of
paperwork that you have to go and find after five years.

(31:36):
So theoretically it's possible, but I wouldn't underestimate the amount
of work in the time, and then the possibility that
there'll be something missing which you'll need to get, you know,
like a registered building surveyor to come and do some
work on the property, or to assess the property and
then determine whether or not it's code compliant. Don't underestimate

(32:00):
the amount of work that's involved in doing that, And
certainly I wouldn't listen to anyone who says I'll be easy,
because my experience never is oh, eight hundred eighty ten
eighty then to call Also, hey, Pete, our house has
the old color steel class FEE facia, which is a
concealed metal spouting on the inside. The spoutings rusting out

(32:23):
the rain water is flowing across the safet lining and
down the walls. How can we replace this old with
maybe a new color steel facia and spouting new spouting
to be fixed on the outside of the facia. Would
this be a notifiable project? No, I don't believe it
is a notifiable project, and I think we mentioned it
last week on the show. There's a couple of companies

(32:44):
that I'm aware of. There may well be more of them,
but the two that I do know is custom facier
and spouting. They've got a system that they've developed which
allows them to swap out essentially your concealed guttering and
expose facia with a system where the facia is on
the inside the spouting is on the outside. And I

(33:06):
know Continuous Group have also developed system for doing these
sorts of retrofits. And no, I don't think they require
doesn't require a building consent. The only thing that you'd
want to look at. And I was looking at a
property the other day where which is an older one
where maybe it complied at the time, but the number

(33:28):
of downpipes wouldn't meet the current requirements. So possibly one
of the issues you'll find is there's not this insufficient
number of downpipes. So maybe you need to add a downpipe,
or maybe you want to add a downpipe. Oh, eight
hundred eighty is the number to call quick text as well,

(33:48):
Morning Pete on the showers. Yes, you're correct. It's always
good to know. You only need to consent if it added,
deuse waterproofing or cutting joys or concrete to make a
level entry. That's from Craig. Thanks Craig. Yeah, so they're
not adding the issue with level entry showers typically is

(34:09):
that in order to create a level entry, you've got
to cut the floor joist down, which is obviously a
structural issue. So if you've got a one to fifty
floor joist and you're chopping thirty mili out of the
top of it, it's no longer a one fifty floor joist,
it's less and that might impact on the structural stability
of the house and so on. So do you go

(34:30):
underneath and do bracing and add an additional bearer for example,
so the span of the joist is less. Yes, you
can do that, but then you know who decides that
that's the appropriate amount of engineering the bearing capacity, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. I went and did this is classic.
The other day I went and had a look at
a property and it had a tile shower in it,

(34:52):
which I don't think had a building consent. It had
been done some time ago, and just out of curiosity,
I said, look, I'll come back with an old pair
of overalls, because it's quite a way to crawl in
underneath and have a look whether I can see any
evidence of leaking directly underneath this tiled and waterproof shower tray,

(35:12):
and so got an old pair of overalls, got my torch,
climbed in underneath there had a fossic around. Couldn't see
any evidence of any water egress as posed ingress, the
water getting out, soaking through the flooring and so on.
But what I did find quite alarmingly is the plumber.

(35:33):
God blessed plumbers. We all love plumbers. But the old plumber,
in order to get the wastin, had drilled through the
joist like from top to bottom with a whole saw.
And if there was a millimeter left of the joist
that would be generous. It was hanging on by fibers,
so that just drilled. They just went, this is where
the waste is going. I'm just going to drill straight

(35:55):
down with a big old one hundred and something mill
whole saw and just chopped straight through the joist, straight through,
like perfect half circle, right through it. And obviously no
one had been under there to go, hm, that's not
very good. Maybe we should add, you know, we've got

(36:15):
to nog it out or flitch another choice next to
it or something like that. It's just cut straight through it.
So I've got like on my phone this Rogu's gallery
of pictures like this, and that's the classic plumber, just
straight through the joist. I love you plumbers, don't worry
about that, but what you do to my timber, it's
hard to live with. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten

(36:36):
eighty back in a mow.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Doing other house storting the garden asked Pete for a
hand the resident builder with Peter Wolfcap call eight US
Talks V you and News talks.

Speaker 10 (36:47):
Heb.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
We're still at time for your calls prior to the news.
Remember too, in the next hour we've got Bryce McDermott,
our painting expert from Razine, is going to be available
and he'll be on air at around seven thirty. So
if you've got any specific painting questions, text them through
to nine to nine two d BZB and we'll will

(37:08):
put those to Bryce. So any painting questions that you
might have, text it now through to nine to nine
two or said BZB and we'll put those to Bryce.
At seven thirty you can call eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty. You'll still got time for a call before
the news top of the hour at seven o'clock, and remember,
of course, as always after eight point thirty this morning,

(37:30):
the reclined past will be with us as well. This
is a great text. I have to say, Hey, Pete,
can you put new cladding over existing cladding without a consent?
For example, ply and batten on a fifty x fifty
cavity batten over existing weatherboards. Matt, My inclination is to say,

(37:56):
I think you probably can, and I guess I'm working
from the point of view of what would stop you
doing that? So you're not removing the existing CLI, in
which case you're leaving all of the weather tightness elements
in place. If there's existing weather boats, they'll have scribers,
they'll have facings, they'll have head flashings, those sorts of things.

(38:20):
And while you're penetrating that with your fixings for the
cavity battens, there's nothing in the rules that say you
can't fix something through a baton. Otherwise you need to
be able to hang a clothesline, for example, without getting
a building consent, And so effectively, your exterior cladding is
just a rain shield because your weather tightness remains intact,

(38:46):
because the building's already weather tight because it's got weather boards.
Saying that if somebody was to come and look at
the property when it comes up for sale, as inevitably
houses do. Would they be curious about, Hey, did you
get a building consent for this work? And if you
didn't get a building consent, how do I know that

(39:06):
it's been well done, that there hasn't been some other
inadvertent changes in terms of whether tightness or the performance
of the building. So that's good reason to get a
building consent, or a very good reason to at least
document very well what processes you used, and how you
and how you did detail around windows and openings and

(39:30):
those sorts of things. It also gets me thinking about
a sort of a growing movement. Let's say there's some
new ideas developing around retrofitting insulation to existing buildings, which
typically we've done. We've said, okay, well, either we've got
this existing exterior wall frame, it's got no insulation. Somehow
we've got to put insulation where it typically goes, i e.

(39:52):
Inside the walls. But increasingly there's a group of people
looking at well, why don't we just leave the building
as it is, including leaving the cladding on potentially and
putting outsolation, doing a thermally efficient insulation around the existing
perimeter and then putting a new sheathing or new cladding

(40:12):
over the top of that. So rather than go through
the disruption either from the inside or the outside of
pulling walls apart. So if you're on the inside, you
take architraves off, skirting boards off, scotias off, pull off
internal wall lining, add insulation into there, and reinstate all
of that, which is quite disruptive, or you're going to
do it on the outside, which is also disruptive, or

(40:34):
you just go, why don't we just leave it where
it is and put a new sheath around the outside
of the building and put all of our insulation in there,
which has the benefit too that you don't get the
thermal bridging or you reduce the thermal bridging. So maybe your
question fits into that category around retrofit for existing buildings
to increase the insulation performance. Interesting. Interesting, We're starting to

(40:59):
get a couple of texts and Paul Bryce, who is
our painting expert, he'll be coming along around seven thirty
this morning, so really looking forward to that. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Another text. Hey,
Pete super show, Thank you very much, very kind. Listen
every week, and then he goes on to talk about

(41:19):
BCA's will do that after the break Your News Talk,
said B, New Sport and Weather, top of the hour
at seven o'clock. Then we're into your calls.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Whether you're painting the ceiling, fixing with fans, or wondering
how to fix that hole in the wall. Give Peter
wolf Cap call on eighty the resident builder on Newstalks EDB, Your.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
News Talks EDB. We are talking all things building construction,
as we always do on a Sunday morning here at
News Talks EDB. So good morning, welcome along to the program.
It is just coming up seven minutes after seven. A
couple of texts that we need to address at some stage.
If you've got a painting question, text them through because
Bryce McDermott, our painting expert from Razine, is going to

(42:00):
be available from around seven thirty this morning, so any
specific painting questions. The other thing too, is because we've
had quite a already on the show, and I think
it's going to be something we'll be talking quite a
lot about. Is you know it changes to the building legislation,
the possibility that we'll see buildings up to seventy square

(42:20):
meters granny flats being able to be built without necessarily
requiring a building consent, which then raises lots of issues
around building controls, building quality, ensuring that somebody when the
building gets sold in the future, doesn't inherit something that's
unsafe or unsound, you know, or isn't going to last. Right,

(42:43):
So how do we control quality? One of the things
that I've kind of got to with my own thinking
is that I wonder whether a straightforward solution to it
is that buildings can be built up to seventy square
meters without necessarily requiring a building consent if they come
from established companies who are building these often off site, right,

(43:05):
so they're building them in the factory, they've got their
quality assurance processes, they're using design that they've developed, they
can prove compliance with the building code and so on.
And sort of an idea that's been floating around in
my head anyway for a little while. And then the
other day there was an article online that I was
reading and there was some discussion with off Site New

(43:28):
Zealand right, which is an organization that promotes off site manufacturing.
It's across the boards and industry group. Anyway, I gave
Scott Fisher, who's the head of Offsite New Zealand, a call.
We had a good conversation a couple of weeks ago,
and I said, let's talk about this on the radio.
So we're going to do that in about an hour's
time as well, So after eight o'clock Scott Fisher from Offsite,

(43:49):
he'll explain what that's all about and we'll have a
bit of a look. There's a lot to talk about.
Try and be as brief as we can around you
know what off site does and is that like if
you're looking. One of the phrases actually that Chris Pink
used when we did the interview last year is quick
and dirty looking for quickened eary solutions, which I think
reflects his time in the Navy perhaps, But anyway, I

(44:11):
like the phrase in the sense that let's do something
that we is achievable, that works and might not have
all the bells and whistles, but it's going to work.
And I kind of look at the the granny flat
thing and go, actually, you know what, because we've got
a growing industry. Yeah, I think that's fair to say
we've got an established industry that builds to a high

(44:35):
quality using processes that they've developed, that they can prove
our building code compliant. Why not just say, if you're
going to do seventy square meters, you're going to go
and get it from someone who can prove what they're building.
And the contrast to that is I buy a packet
of framing and I back the ukee down the drive

(44:55):
and I start framing a house up. Broadly speaking, that's
your alternatives or do we go? Actually, we're going to
go to this company. We can look at the record,
we can look at the quality assurance, we can look
at their designs. We know that it's building code compliant.
Sure truck it on down will pop sixty square meters
on the backyard because we know that it'll be built well. Anyway,

(45:18):
we're going to talk with Scott Fisher from offsite at
just after eight o'clock this morning. Time to get into
your calls. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the
number to call, Kath Good morning, Oh.

Speaker 12 (45:29):
Good morning, Pete. Look, I wonder if you can help us.
We've got a three bedroom single level on a concrete floor,
a concrete base and it's we've got a tenant obviously
very good tenant. Anyway, on Easter Sunday, I think it
was at night, in the middle of that big storm

(45:50):
and lots of thunder, she woke up and her massive cracking.
She said, it was the most horrendous sound. We thought
it was coming from the bathroom, which her master bedroom
is right next to the bathroom. And then she got
up and she walked into the dining area and kitchen
there and a whole rows of tiles had popped up

(46:11):
into a point. And so we've had a builder go
and lift up a couple of tiles and there's no
sign of any water or any cracking in the concrete floor.
When we've had a tiler had looked at it and
he said that all of the tiles and the whole
dining kitchen area and across the little carpeted hallway into

(46:32):
the bathroom where there's tiles again they've will loosened up
as well in the bathroom. So we have no idea
what could calls that.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
So I just want to step through this. So it's
how old's the building.

Speaker 12 (46:46):
Roughly approximately twenty five to thirty years old. It's been
always really well maintained.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, okay, so you know, i'd call that modern despite
those twenty five years old. Someone who's a teenager will
call that ancient. But anyway, okay, so we're talking a
building that was built, let's say sometime in the nineteen nineties.
It's a concrete slab, yeah, correct, single story, double story, yes, no,
single story, single story, concrete slab, timber frame on top,

(47:16):
conventional roofing, probably aluminium jowinery da da da da da.
And then those tiles, those tiles that are down there
are tiles that are fixed to the concrete floor and
what they've described them as the tiles have popped up.

Speaker 12 (47:33):
Yeah, so you can you can see that. When she
sent its photo there was a whole row of tiles
and they'd a whole two roads had come up into
a point like a triangle. Yes, and so we thought
it was just that row of tiles. But now that
we've had a tiler have a Locky said, actually, all
of the tiles and the whole dining it's not a
huge place, but all of the tiles in the dining

(47:56):
area and leading into the kitchen have all come loose
right also into the bathroom as well, And she said
the noise. She said it felt like the noise was
going on ever, but it was probably five minutes. But
he said it was really brightening because it was just
massively loud.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Wow. Oh, I love a good mystery, to be fair.

Speaker 12 (48:16):
Yeh, we hope you're.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
So the builder that's come along and had a look
at it, Like the tiles, have they been able to
be lifted and you can see what the concrete slabs
underneath it is there?

Speaker 12 (48:29):
Yeah, he literally he literally just lifted up, you know,
but none of the tiles have broken. They've all just
lifted and but we thought it was just the two
the two big tiles, so yeah, you know, but it
turns out that sadly, the tyler has told us that

(48:53):
it's all of the tiles and the dining a whole
lot then had to come up and obviously be replaced
because by the time you lifted them all and take
off all the grout and grind off all the concrete
off them and stuff. Yeah, so we're just thinking what
on earth could have caused that.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
It would be really interesting to see what the condition
of the concrete floor underneath the tiles. So if you
were to like those tiles that have peaked right, that
are now in a triangle shape. If you're to peel
those backs, scrape back some adhesive and have a look
at the floor. And what I'd be looking for is
is there a crack there? And in that crack, is
there any moisture? Is there any sign that there's water

(49:36):
that you know, potentially if there's pipework in the slab,
has that pipe burst and that it's creating Well, it's
still an unusual event though, to see tiles pop up.
I mean, tiles will get drummy, right, and they'll lose
adhesion and so on, but they'll just get loose and

(49:56):
rattle and then you lift them up. But to see
them actually pop up sort of would indicate that something's
forcing them up or there's pressure on either side that
is causing them to pop up as well. But on
a concrete slab, it's hard to imagine what that what
the source of that pressure is.

Speaker 12 (50:16):
When the builder did lift them, there was no is
only lifted. Yeah, but there was no sign whatsoever anything
untoward on the concrete slab. But that was only in
that area. I mean, it might be from a you know, yeah,
there's no question the stub or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
I guess, you know, in terms of solving them street,
it would be interesting to go to your insurer and go,
we've had this damage.

Speaker 13 (50:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
We don't really know what's caused the damage, but it
is obviously damage that this isn't as a result of
wear and tear. It's not gradual damage. They were okay
one day and they're not the next, so that something
has happened, and to have their assessor come and maybe
they've got some insight into it without looking at it.

Speaker 12 (51:00):
We rang the insurance straight away, and of course they
did get the builder to go and have a lot
and then with them obviously he said, well, look you'll
need to get a tiler. He said, I've lifted up.
He said, I have no idea, but he lifted up
the tiles and said look the concrects and all that.
The parts of the area that he lifted looked fine.
And then the tiler gave us the grim news. So

(51:23):
we'll go back to the insurance company, I guess, and
just say, look, you know, because surely it will be
an insurance situation because you know, no, it's not like
you say gradual, where it's just something perfectly fine.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Certainly, I think it should be an insurance claim, and
because of the age of the tiles, you're unlikely to
find replacement tiles and just focus on that, right, because
insurance might be a little bit reluctant to say, well, look,
we're lifting tiles that are perfectly good. They're still the
The issue then becomes, depending on your policy wording, that

(51:59):
it's got to be consistent, and so they should replace
all of the tiles. But it's going to be a
fairly disruptive process. It's noisy and dusty to chip those
tiles out, grind the floor to get rid of all
of the existing adhesive, and then I would suggest perhaps
putting down a vapor barrier, so sealing the floor, then

(52:19):
doing a new new adhesive, new tiles down, grouting it
and so on. It's going to be quite the process. Please,
if you get more, I'm curious, because I'm to be fair,
I can't think of a straightforward solution to going, hey,
that's what it is, apart from there is actually a
leak in the slab. Now if that's the case, then

(52:41):
you've got even more work to do, so you kind
of need to steal yourself for that possibility. As well.
I'd love to know how this gets resolved, so please
give us a call if you've got more information in
the weeks ahead. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
will take more of your calls after the break.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Squeaky door or squeaky floor, get the right advice from
Pedi Wolfcare, the resident builder on newstalksb.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Change of season still means getting out into the garden
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then still Shop is the place where you can get
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(53:29):
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(53:53):
and store or online with speedy click and collect or
home delivery z be. It seems I'm not the only
one that likes good mystery. Going back to our previous
call with Kate, could the walls have flexed? It's a
really intriguing question. So this is the whole issue. Floor
tiles that have effectively peaked and popped up two floor

(54:17):
tiles on a twenty five year old house all peak,
he says the Texter. I love a good mystery myself.
If there's no cracking in the concrete, could the house
have moved and the foundations didn't during the You know,
we had pretty inclement weather last weekend, and certainly I
remember lying in bed feeling that the house was moving

(54:41):
during some of the thunderstorms in Auckland. The house was
vibrating with the thunderstorms. But I mean, it takes a
lot of energy to move wall, particularly a bottom plate
that's been fixed down twenty five years ago, that's got
probably diner bolts or anchors or ram set shots and
it's fixed down onto a concrete slab and the framing's

(55:03):
got six k in connectors and all the rest of it.
I mean, that's a lot of movement that we're talking about.
So maybe when pressure against the outside walls forcing the
bottom plate, and it's a long shot at best. I
agree with you that is a bit of a long shot,
but hey, I love it. Oh, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty the number to coured. Remember we've got Bryce
McDermott our painting expert shortly so if you've got any

(55:25):
specific painting questions, give us a call, send me a
text rather at nine ninety two, Penelope, good morning, Good
morning pe.

Speaker 6 (55:34):
Have we moved into our house eight years ago and
it was brand new and on the east side with
we've got double gazing throughout the spaller windows that actually
open on the east side of the house. All three
the seals seem to have failed. And the question is
it's that acceptable because it's on the east side and

(55:57):
getting a lot of sun or is it a failure
of the double glazing.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
When you say the seal has failed, do you mean
the seal that between the two layers of glass that
makes double glazing.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
Yes, there appears to be condensation actually inside the two layers.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Of glass and the building is how old.

Speaker 13 (56:20):
Seven years old.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Okay, so that should still be warrantied. So are you
the original owner of the house or did you buy
it from you are okay? So you bought it from
the developer or the builder that built it.

Speaker 6 (56:34):
We had it built, you had it built.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Okay. Oh that's great. So you should be able to
go back either through the builder or through your own
records to see Chances are what happened is the builder
would have gone to a joiner, to a joinery manufacturer
who would have supplied the windows, and they would have
then gone to the manufacturer of the double glazed units

(56:56):
to supply the double glazing. It's rare that people go
to a specific manufacturer of double glazing and to a joiners,
two separate entities. Tend to go to the window manufacturer,
the window manufacturer rings whichever provided they've got and orders
the DG units for you. So there should be a
paper There should be a paper trail. Go back through

(57:19):
the joiner, figure out which company and there's only a
couple that would have supplied double glazing units, and then
I would contact them directly with name and address and
that sort of thing, and say, look, could you send
someone out to have a look at these because seven years,
you'd expect them to last longer than that, and typically
they do. So it might just be a batching issue,

(57:41):
whatever it should be. But I my expectation, and I've
been a brand ambassador for Metro Performance Glass, who do
double glazing units, I would say that in that instance,
they'd send somebody out and if it's a fault, they'll
fix it, and hopefully if it's a different company, they'll
take the same approach. So seven years, No, it shouldn't

(58:02):
fail within that time.

Speaker 6 (58:04):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
No trouble, but you you know, do chase it up.
In my expectation is that they should send someone out
and they should be replaced.

Speaker 12 (58:15):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
This black all right, I take care all of this thing.
And Robbie, good morning to you.

Speaker 10 (58:24):
Yeah, good morning.

Speaker 14 (58:26):
Don't a question.

Speaker 10 (58:29):
I've got a.

Speaker 14 (58:31):
Double garage that I've converted into a hobby room or
a a gym sort of a room.

Speaker 13 (58:40):
Yep.

Speaker 14 (58:41):
When I was going to do it, I ranged the
counsel I was going to turn into a bedroom, but
it was going to cost me six thousand dollars resource consents.
The builder told me, as long as I called it
a hobby room or an office. He said, you don't
need a building permit, So we were ahead and put

(59:02):
the sliding doors and windows on the front of it,
put wall carpet on the bottom floor, put all the
gym gear and that anyway I ended up. I put
a bed, you know, a king sized bed and everything else.
It's a fabulous it's actually made a favorous bedroom. Can

(59:24):
the council stop be putting a bed in here? Or
is it just like an do her a lot with
it once it's.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
I guess there's two things that play here. One is,
you know, council don't have the resources to come round
and stop you putting a bed in there, and basically
they don't care. Right yes to some degree. However, in
terms of making that a habitable space, it's not suitable

(59:54):
to be a habitable space because you haven't proven that
it's compliant with the building code. So any space that
we expect people to live in should be compliant with
the building code. So in part, you've been poorly advised
by your builder. And I don't know whether you're still
in discussions with them, but that's poor advice on the

(01:00:18):
builder's part. So you know, no one. I don't think
council is going to come along. But if, for example,
you go to sell the property and you sell it
with a bed in that space, I would say your
real estate agent probably say to you you need to
remove that bed because you haven't followed the right processes

(01:00:40):
to convert a garage which is a non habitable space,
into a bedroom which is a habitable space. So you
can have a garage with a ranch slider on it.
You can use it as a hobby room kind of.
That's or you could use it as a gym, but
you can't use it as a habitable space without a
building consent.

Speaker 13 (01:01:03):
Yet.

Speaker 14 (01:01:03):
Yeah, because of because I've got a bet in here
and I'm sleeping in here, and it's a fabolous room.
It's just up to me whether I want to put
a bed in here or I don't want to put
a bet of you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Yeah, I think, you know, generally speaking, counsel don't have
the bandwidth to be following up on these things. You know.
So for example, if you were to move out the
tenant tenant the property, it wouldn't get Healthy Homes compliance
because you can't prove compliance for that space. So if
you did rent it. Someone could go to tendency services

(01:01:36):
and say it shouldn't be rented. You might not find
that you get a healthy home statement because the property
manager will assess it and go, that's not compliant. But
look if it's you know, in the end, thankfully, we
still have a bit of an attitude which is, you know,
your home is your castle, right, so what you choose
to do at your place to some degree is completely

(01:01:56):
up to you. If you want to live in it,
then I say, hey, knock yourself out. But in terms
of compliance, no, it wouldn't be compliant.

Speaker 14 (01:02:06):
Well yeah, you know, I won't be shifting from here. Yeah,
you know, I'd say they probably can't to hear it.
So yeah, if ever went up for again, they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Would just have to sell it, sell it as a
garage or or something. Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 14 (01:02:30):
That's all right, that's all you know. I just I
just wondered, you know, whether whether anybody would would have
any work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I think it would have to be. You know, every
now and then you do hear stories about council enforcing
building regulations. So there was a case, I think a
family and Corimandel who were essentially living in a converted barn,
they'd added fireplaces that added an extra story. They've done
all this work, none of it had building, and sensed

(01:03:00):
none of the building was arguably unsafe. Council had been
along con earned about the inhabitants, issued a number of
statements they hadn't complied with anything, and eventually, after a
long drawn out process, the council said, look, we're just
going to come and pull this down, right, But that's unusual.
It's very rare.

Speaker 14 (01:03:21):
Yeah, oh I know, I know this place. It's about eleven,
about eleven year old. So yeah, it's all it's all lined,
and the garage is all got bats, and the roofs all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Fill your boots, fill your boots. It's all the best.
Every great day, Take care by by then, Oh fantastic.
I eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to
call every now need to get tempted to stray into
that territory where you go, oh look all the building
regulations blah blah blah. Just build what you like where
you like. Tempting tempting. O. W. Eight one hundred eighty

(01:03:59):
ten eighty is the number to call. If you've got
a painting question. You better get on to it X
through nine two nine two because after the break, Bryce McDermott,
our painting expert from Razine, is going to join us.
We'll take your text questions on nine to nine two
any tricky painting questions. To be fair, folks, the trickier
the better. I like the tricky ones. Tax them through

(01:04:22):
nine two ninety two. Back after the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Break, helping you get those DIY projects done right. The
resident builder with Peter Wolfgat call oh eight eight Youth Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
EDB, your News Talks d B. And it is a
great pleasure to welcome back to the show regular contributor
and highly valued expert Bryce McDermott from Razine. A very
good morning, Good morning, morning, the greetings, greetings. It's wet,
it is, it is wet, but you can't use that
as an excuse not to do some painting. But you

(01:04:53):
do need to think about changing weather conditions. So if
we are still going to paint, and to be fair,
I looked out yesterday and thought, was it going to rain?
Do I get a code of primer on those weather boards?
And I held off. I probably should have done it
because it didn't didn't rain. I was going to use
some quick dry. So, but if you know what sorts
of things should be front of mind, is the seasons

(01:05:14):
change in terms of getting painting jobs done.

Speaker 13 (01:05:18):
Yeah, I mean at this time of the year, people
are probably more consumed with interiors.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Sure, and.

Speaker 13 (01:05:25):
While it isn't cold at the moment, you know, when
June July comes around, you know, you know the temperatures
will drop. So there are a couple of things that
you can you know, you can still do the work,
but there's a few things that you know that will
help you and you get the job done.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yes, So I think ventilation is important.

Speaker 13 (01:05:47):
Ventilation, Yes, it's through ventilation right open the window went
end of the house and another window at the other
end of the house and just tips and breeze coming through.
The worst enemy of painters is itself really, because it
releases water vapor as it's as it's curing. You know,
the water has got to evaporate out of the paint basically,

(01:06:09):
So if you don't get rid of that water vapor right,
it's not going to cure properly. So some people use
a combination of a dehumidifier and a fan heater. Yes
as well, but you know the best thing to do
is have that through ventilation and do one room or
a corridor at a time. You know, don't try and
do the whole house and expect it to dry. You know,

(01:06:30):
just take it easy, do one room at a time
and get rid of that water vapor. If the house
is empty, for instance, and you're doing it up, you know,
the worst thing you can possibly do is paint the
entire interior and then lock it up in overnight and
expect the paint to dry, because the house will just
be filled with water vapor and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
It won't happen, right, Okay, So that and that evaporation
is key. Adding heat, you know, if we're really worried
about temperatures getting too cold, because typically on the tin
in surprise, surprise, I actually read the instructions on the
side of a turn the other day, you know, and
it does talk about, you know, do not paint if

(01:07:12):
the temperature is going to drop below a certain minimum. Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:07:17):
Yeah, I mean heat is okay, but not too much.
You don't want to, yes, you just want to. You
just want to encourage a little bit of evaporation, okay,
So have a fan heater in one room and just
encourage the the breeze if you've got one to actually

(01:07:39):
go through the house and remove that water they before you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, yeah, right. Oh, let's rip into a couple of
texts and I'll save the really tricky one for second.
But anyway, here we go. Freshly painted bedroom walls, two
of them on the south wall after four weeks have
started sweating from the top down. But it's not water
as it's sticky. Is this affectant leeching? And if so,

(01:08:04):
what would I do to fix it? From Sarah J it.

Speaker 13 (01:08:07):
Sounds like affectant legion. The only thing you can do
is to basically get some fresh, warm water in a
nice clean cloth and wash those wolves down. As soon
as you see that sort of effect, you've really got
to actually get onto it then wipe it away. What

(01:08:28):
it is, it basically is surffactants, which is basically soap
that are an ingredient in the paint. If it's moist
or if it's very humid at the time of curing
and things like that, it can draw those affectants out
and leave a shiny, sort of sticky residue on the surface.

(01:08:48):
It doesn't hurt the paint at all, but if you
do leave it for any length of time. It can,
you know, leave some marks behind, not soapy water, just
warm fresh water and just wipe it off.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Brilliant. Okay, So do that today, basically, don't leave it there, yeah, brilliant. Okay.
Question for the razine guy that's you. Is there one
paint I can use on my ceilings, walls and woodwork?

Speaker 7 (01:09:18):
Can?

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
I say?

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
I don't think so. No.

Speaker 13 (01:09:23):
I Well, I'm speaking just from my personal preference. There
is space coat lochine and space coat flat yep, that
you can that you could use on a ceiling and
the wall. But if it's coming to joinery and things
like that, I prefer to have something with a bit
of a gloss and make it easy to keep clean.

(01:09:44):
Finger marks and stuff on the joinery and around the
door angles and stuff like that. You would have to
use at least a water based enamel. Normal acrylics will
just stick together if the door shuts on it and
things like that. Sure, yes, space coat flat you could
use on the walls and the ceilings, but I would

(01:10:05):
use something like luster or our new waterborn gloss of
animals that we've got out now to be quiet good
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I kind of look at it and go. You know,
there's a reason that there's a lot of research by
paint companies, and I know there's a lot of research
by Razine into specific paints for specific purposes. And you know,
we want maybe flat on the ceilings, we want a
bit of semi gloss on the walls, we want something
harder wearing on the timber, you know, et cetera. And
that's why we've got the different paints. It's it's not

(01:10:35):
a marketing ploy. It's that we want them to do
different things. And that's why we have different types of
paint painted all the same color. But hey, use the
right paint in the right place, right he Is there
a way to paint kitchen cabinets that have got a
laminate finish? Just trying to refresh the kitchen right now?
There are revolting their words gray brown color and I
just want them white. So I'd always say, yeah, but

(01:11:00):
you've got to be realistic about the outcome. But in
terms of painting laminates, what would you do?

Speaker 13 (01:11:06):
Well, we do have a product called well it's basically
a laminate primer vell Mine and laminate primer. It's called
which is an adhesion primer. You've got to clean those
kitchen cupboards down. You've got to get rid of any
grease or anything if it's you know, obviously it's in
the kitchen. You know, they take a bit of a
beating in terms of you know, all sorts of stuff

(01:11:28):
that can happen in the kitchen, people, you know, throwing
food around. But yeah, so you've got to clean those down.
Then put the laminate primer on me that dry, keep
the temperatures up because it does take a while to
cure and very very cold temperatures quick dry and then
lusticril or something like that will do it after that.

(01:11:52):
But yes, like you say, you've got to be realistic
about it. You know, it will it will chip, you know,
it's yeah, it'll it'll give it a lift, but you know,
you've just got to keep an eye on it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
In terms of durability. You've got to be realistic. This
is a good one eighties Lockwood House. Is there much
involved in painting over the wood? I guess it's important
to say that over the wood will be a poly erathane,
So you're effectively trying to paint over polyurethane which is
over t Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:12:22):
Yeah, again, you know, you've got to clean all those
surfaces down, give them a bit of a sand ups,
move them out. Traditionally they've got lots of knots and
stuff in there, which is part of the character of them,
I guess. And once you've done that and done your preparation,
you can put a coat of water born Surecy, which

(01:12:45):
is a new product of ouse on the Market's been
out for a year or so, I would think, but
it makes an excellent digesion primer. Right, don't use it
on lemonade, though, We've got a specific primer for that.
And then you know, a white undercoat on top and
whatever color you want to put on that so it

(01:13:05):
can be done excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
I've done it myself. Actually, there you go. You're right.
Can you advise on repainting a bathroom ceiling There has
been some mold and some flaking paint from Andrew?

Speaker 13 (01:13:19):
Yeah, well you've got to obviously clean down the ceiling,
get rid of ale mold and everything like that, and
then give it a really good sanding, which is something
I've got to do and I haven't got around to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yeah, me both.

Speaker 13 (01:13:33):
Yeah, So basically, you know, sand all smooth, you know,
just flaking paint and everything like that. You've got to
feather those edges out so you know, give the whole
ceiling a good sanding. It's a it's a character building job.
So you're looking up and then you get a crook
in your neck and everything like that, but you know,
stand it very very well, and then go around and

(01:13:53):
undercoat all the areas that you've sanded smooth. You know,
if there's any exposed timber and stuff like that. Yes,
I would imagine if it's a bathroom ceiling and a
numb of enamel has been used, So I'm going to
that is read at the moment. And generally, if you
if you've sanded it up and it's all all looking
great and you've spot primed it and everything like that,

(01:14:15):
you can put two cups of enamel straight over the
top of it. You have to figure out exactly what
sort of paint went on the ceiling in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Right, Yeah, and what's the new one the velvet there?
I used it the other day on a broom. Yeah,
m hmm. That you guys have got like it's a
water based enamel, isn't it water water born?

Speaker 13 (01:14:39):
Sorry? There is a difference in terms of you know,
when it's wet, you know, you can clean your brushes
and up and water. You can clean up a mess,
you know, if your spills, if it's still there, you
can clean them up with water.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
Ye.

Speaker 13 (01:14:55):
Once the product dries or gets to a point where
it is drying, you have to use it. You have
to revert to tips.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Oh really basically, Yeah, it's how interesting.

Speaker 13 (01:15:05):
It's very strange technology.

Speaker 14 (01:15:07):
And I.

Speaker 13 (01:15:10):
Don't pretend to know all about it, but you know,
it's it's the same with you know, a woodsman stain
that's water borne as well, but it's an oil that's
been convinced to float around in water, and once the
water evaporates off, you know, it reverts to being an
oil again.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Yeah, native timber painted weatherboards so old Cowrie or remove
boards with some hollows. Is there a filler to make
it smooth? So they've used bog, which you can't use
over painted surfaces. So if you're doing exterior repaint and

(01:15:47):
you want to use, what filler would you typically use?

Speaker 13 (01:15:52):
Well, I mean there's there's It depends on how bad
the knocks and the holes are. I suppose, yes, it's huge.
You know, you may want to Yeah, I mean to
get there's a number of things you could start with,
you know, just a plane, water water born sort of
contract fillery which which you'd have to go through a

(01:16:15):
prime on your boards first, right, go around, fill everything
and then sand that fill of smooth once it's dry,
and then get another coat of paint or undercoat over
the top of that fillar before it gets damped because
of you know, water born fillers, if they get water
into them, they just expand and and you have to
dig it all out and start all over again.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Yeah, and I think that's really important just in generally
that if you fill, you need to spot prime what
you've filled, because I've seen in a number of places
where you know, maybe you've used a pre primed board
and then you just put the filler and go over
with the top coat, but you can see where the
filler is. So I think it's really important to spot
prime over the top of your fillers.

Speaker 13 (01:16:58):
You know, I've got a couple of contractors that you know,
with a pre prime board for instance, you know, they
the builder goes around all these nails and everything in
and then you can get around and you patch fill
all these nails and if you don't undicate the whole board.
For instance, you up the little dots everywhere, yep. Yeah,

(01:17:19):
and you know when the light shines across it, you
can see where all the fillow's been. So a full
undericate on a pre prime board is always a good thing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Yeah, I'm with you on that one too. Radio. Hey,
really appreciate your time and your expertise. As always, Bryce
from Razine, Thanks very much for your time this morning.

Speaker 13 (01:17:35):
Okay, I'll see you awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Take care, Radio, and remember if you're looking for good advice,
make sure you talk to the team at your local
Rasine color shop. It is twelve minutes away from eight.
We'll take a few more calls. We've got new sport
and we're the top of the are. At eight, We're
going to have a quick conversation with Scott Fisher from
Offsite New Zealand. Now they are not for profit industry
wide body that looks to promote and support off site manufacture,

(01:18:02):
which is something that's growing. But the reason I reached
out to them the other day is that, and it
was in the news a couple of weeks ago. For example,
Fletcher Building, which ran the clever Core off site manufacturer
Modular Construction have closed down their line. So what is
it about off site manufacture that we just can't seem

(01:18:23):
to make it work in New Zealand. Big question. We'll
have a chat with Scott Fisher from Offsite New Zealand
after eight o'clock. Then we'll continue with your calls and
then at eight point thirty, of course we're into the
garden with red climb pass. So action pack morning this morning.
A couple of texts that I'll try and answer as
well before we go to the break at top of
the hour at eight o'clock. But if you'd like to
call if you've got a question, eight hundred and eighty

(01:18:45):
ten eighty is the number.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Measure twise God was, but maybe call Pete first, Peter
WOLFCAF the resident Builder News Talk.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Sa'd be a couple of other texts that are here
as well. Can you paint old powder coded aluminium? Yeah,
you can paint it, but it'll look like painted powder
coated aluminium. So I think if you after a really
good job, I would probably go to the professional, someone
like Nano Clear and have them come in so and

(01:19:15):
do it professionally. There are some refurbishing polishes that you
can use to try and get the luster back. But
if you're after a really good finish, I'd go to
the professionals, like Nano Clear or something like that. Do
Razine have a micro cement that can be applied over
laminate benches? This is a very interesting one because I've
just done little project using a new product called microstone.

(01:19:37):
It's on the way from Razine. It's in development, is
Razine Construction System. So we did it over a concrete
bench top. Yeah, more to come in. It's in development,
so stand by. I'll bring an update on that. Can

(01:19:58):
you paint over a laminate floor? The issue is whether
it'll stick right. Don't worry, we'll get our Razine guys
back in the next couple of weeks. We'll take more
of your questions before the break. Brent, good morning.

Speaker 8 (01:20:14):
We've got I've got a place house we're redecorating and
we've ripped up. It's built in nine ninety four's. It's
got concrete head floor, slab and just brick clothing. Yep,
we're ripped out the cap and founder the crack from
one side of the house to the other about six

(01:20:36):
mills wide. There's no cracks in the cleaning or the
or the foundation. Yep, there's no moisture that's come through. Yep,
How I should what I should do with that before
we've got a new cabin.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Now, Like, the main issue is if there was any
called displacement, right, if one side of the slab is
higher than the other, so something's lifted or something's dropped.
But if it's relatively flat across either side of that join,
then I would just and I was in one of
the large stores the other day and these all sorts

(01:21:11):
of like crack repair compounds that you can buy, So
I would just fill or grout the crack with one
of those compounds, just off the shelf. Do that before
you lay the floor, before you do new flooring over
the top. You know, six millimeters starting to get quite
big as a crack. But you know, the remediation would

(01:21:34):
involve cutting the slab out, epoxying starters into either side
of the slab, redoing the DPC underneath it, and pouring
new concrete. None of that really, I don't think you
really need to do. I would just grout it and
then carpet over the top of it.

Speaker 8 (01:21:50):
Okay, yeah, yeah, it seems to be we're taking a
wood burner and the obviously then cracked their originally put
the wood burner and then tape it over, but it's
obviously got then the tie under the woodburner of correct
after there it might have been the originally then and

(01:22:11):
then the earthquake may have just.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
A little bit gave that a little bit of a
jiggle and the you go, but look, if it hasn't displaced,
then I probably wouldn't do too much in terms of
the repair other than Philip, So good luck with that, Brett.
Now after the news, we're going to have a conversation
with Scott Fisher from Prefab Sorry with Offsite New Zealand
our off site manufacture, and then we'll get into the
garden with Root back after the.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
News doing other house extorting the.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Garden asked Pete for a hand.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
The resident builder with Peter Wolfcap calls dogs'd your.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
News talks the'd be welcome back to the program. Eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call
if you've got some building questions. We'll take those through
till eight thirty. Then we're going to jump into the
garden at eight thirty. What I like about the show
is that it's an opportunit you also not just I

(01:23:08):
love talking about the practical stuff, right the DIY, the
fixing floorboards, repairing things, doing the maintenance, but I think
it's also good that we talk about the sort of
broader issues around housing, construction, changes, adaptation, innovation, all of
this with regard to buildings, so kind of the theoretical

(01:23:29):
as well as the practical. And one of the things
that has shifted in the landscape. I was going to say,
is it a recent thing, But in some ways it's not.
We've often had off site manufacture, and in fact, one
of the things I've got at home is old catalogs
showing bay windows and components for buildings, and these were

(01:23:50):
made off site and delivered when people were building old
villas like mine, which is getting close to one hundred
and twenty years old. You could buy the kitsette gables,
and you could buy the joinery and that sort of thing.
So off site manufacture has been with us for a while.
But in this I saw this story came up earlier

(01:24:10):
in April, one of the country's largest prefab house builders
is shutting up shop. And a lack of bro a
lack of broader support for off site manufacture is a
big reason in industry. Inside it says so. Fletcher Building
announced on Monday, a couple of weeks ago that it
had made the difficult decision to close its off site
manufacturing business, clever Core. The giant clever Core factory and

(01:24:34):
Werry in South Auckland open to much fanfare in twenty nineteen,
but a Fletcher Building spokesperson said the site would be
winding down operations by June the thirtieth. Got me thinking
about what is it about us that we can't seem
to make this whole off site manufacture stick? Like one
of the things often discussions, people go, well, what we

(01:24:56):
need to do is we need to get more off
site manufacture. And then when we have a go at it,
if one of our largest companies can't make it work,
what's going on?

Speaker 13 (01:25:03):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
Who better to us than Scott Fisher from Offsite New Zealand,
and Scott joins me this morning. Thanks for joining us, Scott,
Thank you, Peter in good morning, Good morning. Now hey,
look just people might people might know about prefabs, they
might know about modular construction offsite manufacture, but what does
offsite represent? Who do you represent?

Speaker 15 (01:25:28):
Look, we are an industry body, so we represent anyone
that's interested in building better building differently around innovation, so
we represent that sector. We represent those members, but we
also work really closely with border industry and government policymakers
around regulations about being supportive of the sector.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
And so the idea around off site manufacture, which is
kind of the summary title that we'd use for modular
construction assembly of complete buildings, so that I guess there's
a variety, isn't there. There's offsite manufacturers a wall oponents
or entire wall sections or complete houses. There's a spectrum,

(01:26:11):
sure right.

Speaker 15 (01:26:13):
Yeah, and Peter too opening comments it's not new. It's
been around for one hundred plus years. Pen Carrow Lighthouse
and Wellington Heads was built in England and shipped out
here in eighteen eighty something and reassembled the Kipay Homes
of building. They've been building offsite manufactured homes in all

(01:26:34):
constance in nineteen fifty. So it's not new. Probably it's
expanding and its applications are probably much broader and wider
than they have been as the industry develops, and for
the fact that look it's organically growing. Probably represented about
three percent of building value ten years ago, that's grown

(01:26:57):
to about twelve percent globally. It's a trend that's increasing
and essentially it's in response and it's getting support kind
of those truisms of construction. And we all know if
we were a house builder renovating, you know, I don't
know how much it's going to cost, I don't know
when it's going to be finished, and I'm not too

(01:27:18):
sure the quality. Now, those truisms are true today as
they were ten years ago, and they will be true
in ten years time if we don't change the way
that we do things. And the offsite manufacturing part of
the border construction industry is a part solution to addressing
those challenges because we have a we have well, the

(01:27:39):
industry has poor productivity. It's probably lest it was more
productive in the nineteen seventies than it is today. We
have workforce and skill challenges. We have very limited competition,
particularly in New Zealand, and that won't be news to anybody.
We have material cost inflation, so the longer it takes

(01:28:01):
to build something, you get exposed to that cost inflation.
A few squad ease that up. You can control your
costs and the carbon footprint of the construction industry is massive,
and I think the offside industry we put our hand
up and say, actually, we can help with all of
those problems that the broader industry faces.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
And I get so, you know, we've like a couple
of years ago, or probably ten twelve years ago in
christ Church, Concision was an idea that hey, let's do
offsite manufacturer, let's do pre assembled components for an entire house,
then we'll ship it to site. Again with clever Core,
you know, there was much fanfare about all of the

(01:28:47):
panels being assembled in the factory, delivered to site, and
the house two story house out at Hobsmble Point. We're
going to put it up in five to six days.
We'll be fully enclosed, weather tightan five to seven days.
So what is it about, Because I suppose it's mixed signals.
We're getting these large I'm not going to call them failure,
but they've had to go and they've decided they're not

(01:29:08):
going to continue. And yet, like I've been in factories
where they're pumping out hundreds of houses a year. So
what do you see happening in terms of some success
and some failure? Seemingly?

Speaker 15 (01:29:21):
Yeah, and look, and the industry does face headwinds and
again not unique to New Zealand. The global issues of
the industry faces, particularly when you get disruptors coming along
to try and use solutions and kind of with those failures,
if you like to call them that. For every one
of those, there's you know, another ten successes and another

(01:29:41):
companies doing really well. You know, companies have their own
particular reasons for winding things down or shutting things down.
You know, I think with Clevercorp. And others. You know,
it's certainly a very challenging industry at the moment, and
it has been for the last eighteen months. Sure, you've
got an economic downturn, You've probably got well, we definitely have.

(01:30:02):
Government policy is not as at the support of levels
where it should be as we see overseas where it
can be. You know, some companies will be interesting. With
Fletcher Living, you know, to what extent did they fully
utilize the Clever core system because I think long term
they have the intention of supplying the broader group homebuilder

(01:30:25):
supply chain. So you know, there's probably some questions that
I can't answer. I can kind of ponder and wonder,
and I've obviously made a strategic decision. I think in
the case of both Concision and clever Core, the glimmer
of good news is that they're not shuttering those businesses.
Concision was sold to South Base and they continued on

(01:30:46):
under in a fab and continue to do so. My
understanding from Fletcher's is that clever Core will be turned
into a frame and trust operation, which is an off
site manufacturing solution. This at the very beginning, it's the
baby step of the off site solution, and the the

(01:31:06):
good news is the much shuttering it, they're keeping it
going and hopefully in a year's time two year's time,
when the economy picks up, they can turn back on
that value add back onto the frames. As call was.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
Do you think that that for those of us of
a certain generational vintage, when you hear the word prefab right, prefabrication,
we tend to think of shoddy classrooms that maybe we
inhabited as kids when we're at school, and it's kind
of put us off the whole idea of having a
factory built dwelling. And so the notion of prefab tends

(01:31:45):
to be synonymous somehow with slightly shonky or unstable and
so on. And I guess off site manufacturer is a
way of introducing a new concept which says, actually you
can get really high quality built in an environment where
you're not impacted by wind and rain and delays caused
by weather and that sort of thing. So in fact

(01:32:05):
we can get a higher standard. But you know, from
a consumer point of view, do we still run into
a bit of a mental block around the notion of prefab.

Speaker 15 (01:32:15):
I think we do. It's not only it's not only
consumer point of view, it's actually the border construction industry
point of view. If we go back to those classrooms
after World War Two, Actually the problem wasn't the classrooms.
Classrooms were probably designed to last for about two three years,
taken off site and be replaced. The problem was that
they continue to be years they used by and so

(01:32:38):
then everyone's blaming the building. It was a policy failing,
not a building failure, right, And I think the industry
today is completely different. And you're right, it's those component parts,
you know, the complete building back of the truck is
very much part of the industry. And that's but this

(01:33:00):
the big middle. If you like the component part, the
floor as set, the sheep of floors and walls, you know,
the pre assembled rooms. You know, you can have bathroom pods,
you can, you know, the applications is broad and very sure.
The panel can be as basic as simply a rigid

(01:33:21):
air barier on that frame, all the way up to
our doors and windows and electrics and plumbing and everything else.
So what is available to the consumer and also the
broader industry is light years ahead today than what it was,
you know, sixty seventy eighty years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
We weren't necessarily going to discuss this, but I've been
intrigued with some recent comments from Erica Stanford as the
Education Minister, talking about I suppose government looking at procurement
of new classrooms and shifting to offsite manufacture and the
savings that got there. Do you want to make a
comment on that.

Speaker 15 (01:34:01):
Absolute and look, and we applaud MOE, which we are
hopeful that other government the departments follow suit then very quickly.
So MOB has clearly identified prefabrication and standardization as a
key strategy to build quicker, better and with much more

(01:34:22):
price certainty. So they get it. And the MOE team
the great team, and they've been doing good work for
a very very long time, and we're encouraged that they're
continuing on with that. Hopefully they'll lead by They are
leading by example, but hopefully the broader you know, because
there's defense, there's community housing, is caring or others. If
they follow very quickly in mos fotsteps be very encouraged

(01:34:46):
and that's very supportive of the industry and it means
that then the industry can grow. I think that the
really important part, particularly for government, is the key understanding
the difference between construction and manufacturing. With construction, you can
scale up and scale down very cost affectively. The differences

(01:35:10):
with manufacturing and clever core and concision and others know
this firsthand. When you invest a lot of money in
plants and equipment and processes and what have you, you
need to follow a manufacturing discipline where you are feeding
I suppose that machine, if you like, and driving the efficiencies.

(01:35:30):
Whereas a manufacturing process can't start and stop. As soon
as it's slow down or stopped, all of the benefits
that are there and available can quite easily evaporate. And
so this is some of the challenges that the industry
faces globally. But some countries have got it right. You know,
Sweden's eighty percent of houses are built within factories, are

(01:35:55):
Singapore seventy of decent. Australia's introducing some really good supportive
policies for the sector. And in those countries where industry
and government and policy aligne they are solving their housing problems,
Whereas when there's a disconnect between those two, unfortunately, what

(01:36:19):
happens that an industry will often default back to what
it is comfortable with and what it knows. And we
are today, you know, we're still typically building a house
the way we built it in the nineteen forty, which
is kind of unaccepted.

Speaker 9 (01:36:35):
Why.

Speaker 15 (01:36:35):
I don't know any other industry that is out there
that is probably still doing what it did in the
nineteen nineteen forties.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
That's a really interesting image. Actually, we're starting to get
a couple of texts and so on, but we're not
going to have time for it today. So I'm thinking
that we will get you back on the show and
maybe we'll take some questions on this. One of the
interesting ones that's come through is around mortgages and around
perhaps a reluctance from lenders to accept this new innovation

(01:37:04):
that you know, my house isn't going to get cobbled
together on site. It's going to arrive on site, but
I need to pay for it before it arrives. And
how do you do lending around that? So we can
talk about that, And I think to your point about
the manufacture, the image that I've heard described as kind
of the oil tanker, right, So it takes a long
time for an oil tanker to get up to speed,

(01:37:26):
and it takes a long time for it to slow
down or turn around. And that's why with manufacturing you
want to keep going pretty much flat out all of
the time.

Speaker 13 (01:37:35):
Correct.

Speaker 15 (01:37:36):
Yes, Yeah, it's kind of a what we term in
the industry to be able to shift from startup to
scale up. Right, What often happens is within the off
site sector is that businesses can kind of get stuck
in the startup mode and what they need. And if
you think of any other industry, you know, whether it's technology,

(01:37:59):
you know you need to very quickly get out of
the startup phase and get up to scale because the
scale all drive the volume and the efficiencies and the speed,
it can bring down the price. But if you can't,
and that's why government's super important for pro policies they don't.

(01:38:20):
And when we say government support, this is not about
you know, kind of one hundred supporting these sort of industries.
They need to compete, but often they will need just
a little little gearshift change that comes with that policy
setting and then they're away. And you know, I think
I go back to the truisms of building as a

(01:38:43):
as a society. If we want better buildings, if we
want them quicker, if we want them of high quality,
high performance, less wasteful, then I think there is a
role where mandates and incentives can shift right behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
And I've got some thoughts on that as well. Scott,
thank you very much for joining us with number of techs,
so I'll reach out to you, will arrange another time.
We'll take some calls and some questions from people as well.
But Scott Fisher from Offsite New Zealand, thanks very much
for your time this morning.

Speaker 15 (01:39:18):
Thank you, Peter, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Take care. If you want to check them out, just
search for off Site ENZ online. There's some good information
on their website. And yes, I will certainly make sure
we get Scott back lots to discuss and unpack there
back in a.

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find out more more, call Resonate on eight hundred three
two seven three six zero news Talk ZB. We've got
a lot of texts after that conversation with Scott Fisher
from Offsite New Zealand. So it's a body that presents
I guess the interests of the off site manufacturing community,

(01:41:10):
and I will I'll make a a diary to perhaps
get Scott back at some stage in the near future,
and we'll have an opportunity perhaps to have some of
your calls and your contributions and your questions and your challenges,
because you know, someone's text through and said, look, a
house built in the nineteen forties is light years better
than the house built today. Wrong, like to be blunt,

(01:41:32):
just wrong. I disagree with you completely. You know, I
see where you're coming from, but I think you're wrong.
New Zealand's boom and bus building activity is not helpful
for the manufacture of prefabricated home that's difficult to overcome. Yeah,
it is. And to be blunt, I went and did
an interview, Ah, the guy who's at aut and you know,

(01:41:58):
sort of going, look, can we get past the spoom
and bus cycle thing in the construction sector. No, it's
just in built, built into capitalism basically, so we're going
to see this. But can we even out the highs
and lows? Can we adjust some of the settings? Can
we promote off site manufacture? And I love the fact
too that in the discussion at the moment, you know

(01:42:20):
there's a couple of groups that are going well. On
site manufacturer is an option as well that you standardize
your processes and so on. I love bespoke building, right,
I absolutely love it. I've built so many houses that
have been individual for a designer working with a client
to achieve an individual outcome. But let's not kid ourselves
that that's a way to affordability. It's not. It's always

(01:42:43):
going to be part of the landscape. The reason that
we love watching Grand Designs and other programs like that
is because people go, this is what I want. I
want this bespoke, beautifully crafted building for me to live in,
which is great, but it's only ever part of the solution.
And again, where I like what off site saying is
that you know we're part of the solution. Right If
you want lots of buildings or more buildings with some

(01:43:06):
standardization to a high standard that will help affordability, then
off site and maybe even on site manufacture is the
way to go. Just before we go to the break
and we jump into the garden with red client past,
I do want to draw your attention to something that
is us going to say, not personal, but I have
a connection with this and they need help, and so

(01:43:28):
I'm going to appeal to you if you want to
help out. On Friday on the north shore of Auckland
Abilities Group which do two really important things. One they're
active in recycling, which is essential, and two they provide
employment to people that would otherwise not have opportunities in
conventional employment. So they work with people with special needs,

(01:43:52):
disabled groups and so on, and they provide employment for
almost one hundred disabled employees. Now their building is burnt
to the ground. It was a massive fire and obviously
there is going to be significant which is hard enough
for any workers, but if you're a person with special
needs and a disability, then that's incredibly disruptive. And so

(01:44:17):
from a social point of view, the loss of that
building and that industry for a period of time is
going to have a dramatic impact not just on the
economy but on the lives of the people involved there.
I've been there. I've dropped off computers, I've dropped off cardboard,
I've dropped off polystyrene. Over the years, they do a
phenomenal job. They're probably going to need some help. My

(01:44:39):
understanding is someone has set up and give a little
page for them, or if there are other ways that
you want to support them. I really hope that they're
able to get back onto their feet, that they can
find a new premises, that they can get back to
the really important work of recycling, but more importantly, that
they can also provide that security and sense of purpose
and meaning to those one hundred people that they have

(01:45:01):
employed over the years. So I know Peter, who's part
of the management team. There is a phenomenal guy. I
know the work that they do. It's amazing. If you
can help out, please do. We're back and we're into
the garden. After the Spraak the red climb passed on
his way.

Speaker 6 (01:45:17):
Good squeaky door.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Or squeaky floor.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcamp, the Resident Builder
on News Talks EDB. For more from the Resident Builder
with Peter Wolfcamp, listen live to News Talks EDB on
Sunday mornings from six, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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