The Resident Builder podcast: October 27, 2024

This week on the show, ZB's Resident Builder Pete Wolfkamp discusses the latest issues impacting the world of construction - and answers questions!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter
Wolfcamp from News Talks at Bay.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Even when it.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Stars, even when the grass is overgrown in the yard,
even when the dog is too old to bar, and
when you're sitting at the table trying not to start.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Have scissor home, even when we leave.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
A band gone, even when you're there alone. The house
is a hole, even when those goes, Even when.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
You got around from the world you love you most.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
You scream those broken paints feeling from the wood locals
visible when they're kind of leaving nearbor house, even when
wilbra Ben, even when you're there alone.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Well, a very very good morning to you. On Labor weekend,
not quite Labor Day, that's tomorrow, but it is a
long weekend. It is well going to say it's springtime,
but it doesn't really feel like spring, or is this
typical for spring? Decent bit of rain in Auckland yesterday,
I think, some flooding down in the Bay of Plenty

(02:17):
area as well, or out around Hastings, I think. And
then some friends send me pictures of fresh snow in
Queenstown and around Wanaka. So we are in that sort
of transition from winter to summer normally labor weekend, first
opportunity for a while, first long weekend for a little while,
to look towards summer and go right, I've got some

(02:37):
jobs to do. I can get into the garden like
I did on what day was it, Friday ahead of
the sort of expected in clement weather on Saturday, which
finally duly arrived. And you know, we're starting to look
at what do I need to do now in order
to get set up for Christmas, which I guess is
just less than two months away, which is kind of

(02:59):
scary when we start talking about that those sorts of dates. Anyway,
if you've got a project that you would like some
assistants with some advice around planning the project, some advice
around selecting subcontractors, some advice around the type of materials,
some advice around the sort of legislation that might impact

(03:20):
on what you can and cannot do without necessarily requiring
a building consent. In fact, that was part of my week.
I was asked to sort of offer up an opinion
as to some work that had been undertaken. And one
of the things that I when I looked at it,
I went, did you get a building consent for this work. No,

(03:40):
we were told by the contractor that we didn't need
a building consent, and I sort of had a sense that, well,
it wasn't strictly building as and it wasn't a house,
it was outside. I thought it did require a building
consent because of the nature of the work. It was
a retaining wall, it's vehicle surcharge on it, it was
close to a boundary. Those two items in and of

(04:02):
itself require a building consent or trigger the need for
a building So now this kind of issue becomes also
one about poor advice from a contractor. And there's been
a number of those sorts of stories around at the moment.
So if you've got issues with contractors, or issues with
building materials, issues with counsel, and to be fair, that's

(04:22):
not uncommon. We can talk about all of these things.
If you've got a project that you're thinking, gosh, over
the summer, I want to get this done, Well, now's
the time to start planning. I remember many years ago
talking with a very senior and experienced building survey. Building
surveys are often called in towards the end of jobs,
or when after a job is finished, to figure out

(04:44):
why it's bad, basically why it hasn't gone well. And
he said, look, in almost every single job that we
get called to as building surveys, at the end of it,
I arrive, I look around, and I go it all
started with poor planning at the beginning. So if we
can do some good planning, you'll get a good result.
What's on the show today, Well, it's pretty much your

(05:06):
show today, So it's eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
If you've got questions of a building nature, we can
talk about that right through till just after eight o'clock.
Had the opportunity to catch up with a gentleman by
the name of Malcolm Fleming. He is the chief executive
of Certified Builders New Zealand. And the reason I kind
of reached out to them was that if you cast

(05:27):
your mind back to some of the discussions around potentially
rolling back the H one standard. This is Chris penk As,
the Minister for Building and Construction, had got some advice
from somewhere saying that we'll look, hey, if we're looking
to save costs on New Zealand buildings, then it's kind
of low hanging fruit the H one changes. That finally

(05:50):
fully came into force in November of last year, so
almost twelve months ago. They are adding significant cost, you
could say, fifty thousand dollars off the cost of building
a house by rolling back the H one changes to
the previous iteration of that particular piece of legislation. What
was fascinating is that a number of groups quickly put
their hand up to say, actually, we don't think those

(06:11):
numbers are right, and for a lot of different reasons,
we don't think we should be winding back the H
one changes. And you know, when the Green Building Council
comes out and says that, you kind of go, oh,
that's in your wheelhouse. It's not surprising that you would
say that. But a number of other groups also came
forward to say we don't support this idea, and more importantly,

(06:31):
here's the numbers. And one of those groups was certified Builders.
So that's a sorry long winded way of saying that's
why I wanted to reach out certified builders. That's why
I sat down with Malcolm Fleming, and I'll have that
interview for you just after eight o'clock this morning. But
right now it is your opportunity to talk all things
building and construction. The lines are open. The number to
call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. You can text

(06:53):
if you wish, that is nine two nine two, and
if you'd like to send me an email. I've remembered
my passwords, so it is Pete at newstooksbat dot co
dot n Z. I kind of joke about remembering the
part because here at this organization, we have to change
them every three months, which is ah. Anyway, I'm sure

(07:14):
it makes the whole place secure because, oh imagine if
people got into my emails. Oh, eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call. If you've got
a question of a building nature, you can call, which
is my preference. You can text like this person did.
Large flat roof butteanyl showing signs of deterioration after thirty
five to forty years. Criyche, be thankful there, that's an

(07:35):
exceptionally good run. So large flat roof of butteanyl showing
signs of deterioration after thirty five to forty years. Can
I coat it with something successfully? There are coatings, Terry,
I'm happy to say. The issue would be is if
the butte nole is kind of delaminating from the substrate,

(07:56):
then the coating won't solve that problem because it's an
adhesion problem. If it's just kind of general wear and
tear and some of the laps are opening up, maybe
or there's a bit of cracking that sometimes can occur
when you go through a bend, particularly if it's a
ninety degree rather than a faceted sort of two forty
five degrees. Then there are coatings available, Some of the

(08:20):
ones that I'm familiar with using, you can't buy off
the shelf. They can only be applied by licensed applicators.
So if that sounds like a bit of you, have
a look at equis as one of those coating products
that is available but can only be installed by licensed applicators.
We'll take more of your calls and texts and just
a moment, will take a break. Now is a great

(08:41):
time to call. We inevitably always get really busy later
on in the show, So let's stretch our legs. Let's
take the time to chat. Oh eight one hundred eighty
ten eighty the number to call, just to heads up
as well. I intend, as is my want these days
to do these terribly unscientific, ill prepared poorly thought out
and lacking in any sort of academic riggor surveys. But

(09:05):
I enjoy doing them because it gives me a bit
of a snapshot into where you're at. And so over
the last little while, we've done a couple of things like,
you know, do you support winding back H one, Yes, No,
that was a good one to do, and so this
morning I'll put it forward in about half an hour
or so. What I'm thinking is, and it was out

(09:27):
of a bit of experience this week where I went
to as it happened, to hire Paul to pick up
some gear. And then I was driving back and I
was thinking, I wonder how often people hire equipment, because
the dilemma is always do I hire something or do
I buy it? Right now? Now, in some cases it's
impractical to buy all of the equipment that you might need.
And that might be a combination of cost. It might

(09:49):
be a combinator, or it might be the influencing factor
is how often am I going to use it if
I buy? You know, back when I was doing a
lot more contracting, do I buy a plate compactor for
when I'm doing slabs or do I hire one? Given
that I might do one or two slabs a year.
I don't need a plate compactor sitting in the workshop

(10:09):
taking up space, given that I might use it two
or three days a year, It's better off to go
and hire it for that. So what's your balance? So
my question is going to be, and it's just a
number thing, how many times a year do you go
and hire equipment? And that might be you know, if
you're doing work at home in the garden, do you
have your own chainsaw or do you go and hire one?

(10:30):
Do you have your own ladder, for example, or do
you go and hire one? Do you have your own trailer?
And I'm talking about you not necessarily as a contractor.
So obviously I have a trailer because I use it
fairly frequently for work. But if you're a homeowner, do
you have a trailer because they're still kind of useful,
but or do you go actually takes up space. I've

(10:51):
got to get a warrant for I've got a register it,
I need to ensure et cetera, et cetera. I need
to maintain it. No, if I need one, I'll just
go and hire one. So that might be my moot.
We'll start that in about half an hour and we'll
see where we get to. Just as a number once
a year, twice a year, three times a year. Just
give me a number one two to what either. I'll
try and figure out actually how many times a year

(11:11):
I go and hire stuff as well. I will do
some thinking on that. Right, we'll start a little bit
later on die. Good morning to you.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Good morning, beautiful sunny war.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
I thought it was I thought it was flooding down
that way yesterday. There's a bridge.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
No, no, no, we were good. Yeah, that's sut it down.
So where's that bang really between Gussie up to the
north and Hawks Bay down to the south.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
So yeah, awesome, awesome. How can I help?

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well, I've been on a long journey for designing my
own house. It's just a passionate and interest and it's
been We've got our own piece of land out here.
It's got a beautiful view. That's I know how I
want to live in it. So I've been doing a
couple of papers through Open Politics next well on residential

(12:07):
construction and materials and structures and learning all about you know,
the building code and really enjoy the journey. But I'm
getting down to the point now I'm having to make
some calls around clouding choices and window choices, yes, because
as you know, that will determine a loss around the

(12:30):
constantine application and design process. But I'm a wildl mate
and I like to touch things and look at them
and talk to people and ask lots of specific questions.
And it's just really hard to know where to go
where I can look at different materials and talk to
people and discuss options. I can only really do study

(12:55):
online to a certain extent, but yeah, I need to
talk to humans. So where do I go.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
It's a really it's a fantastic question in the sense that, look,
you know, it's not surprising that there isn't all of
those samples for those critical elements available to you in
that area. Possibly if you travel to say, Gisbone, or
to Torronger certainly, or maybe to Hamilton to Poor I'm

(13:21):
not sure whether you would have that. I mean the
thought that the first thought that came to mind is
would it be worth you taking the time and spending
the money and going. Look, I'm going to book in
a whole series of sort of meetings and I'm going
to go either Auckland or Wellington for a day and
a half and go, right, I'm going out to have

(13:41):
a look at joinery suites. I want to go and
have a look at, you know, cladding options, maybe have
a look at inslation, etc. And just book in some
time and do essentially a little investigation like that because
and I mean Auckland, for example, I know there is
in Parnell who used to be I'm pretty sure it's

(14:03):
still there, like a large center that has a number
of different building products in it. So it might be
like I remember looking for different types of concrete, for example,
and they had a first display there with all of
their different exterior concretes, all of their colors and textures
and so on. So you could just wander in there
and go, I want to have a look at cladding
because that's over there. I want to have a look

(14:24):
at roofing because that's over there. I want to have
a look at concrete because that's over there. And possibly joinery. Now,
depending in terms of the joinery, you might just find
that if through your own research already you've identified a
particular style or a suite of joinery, then certainly in
Auckland you would find an outlet that would have that

(14:45):
where you could go and have a look cladding at
the stage. What are you most likely to use for
your cladding.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
I've really liked weatherboard k coastal. I want to be
in keeping with the whole fucker pupper those areas so
and be respectful. So I really like cloud, like the
way the light moves and changes across it. And I
think it's it's the coastal, that coastal view. But do

(15:14):
I go, you know, leget timber Well, I'm coastal and
we're in the middle of the paddic and lots of
past here, or do I go to ment fiber in
wench case I had to then consider around, you know,
having cavity space behind the clad in and how long
would that last form? I don't know. So this is

(15:36):
what I mean. I can read specs and you know,
look at all the tables and everything else, but sometimes
it's good to talk to a human.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
Absolutely and look, potentially there might be some value in
finding a local contractor, because you know, again, the one
of the challenges I would imagine of building and I'm
going to use the word remote, not suggesting that it's
terribly remote, but you know, materials that need to come
let's say, from Auckland or from Wellington are likely to

(16:03):
be more expensive than materials that you might be able
to source sort of locally, and that's going to have
impact on your budget, which you should be considering now,
rather than selecting something and then finding that it's cost
prohibitive when you actually go to install it. I have
questioned for you, die and I love the fact that

(16:24):
you're doing the reading and the research and upskilling and
so on. Ultimately, when it comes to lodging the building consent,
those drawings are going to be need to be done
by a design LBP. So have you got someone in
mind who's prepared to take your ideas and incorporate them
into the design?

Speaker 6 (16:45):
Yes, yes I have.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Okay, yeah, I've got a friend of mine so as
an architect, but I need to legit to all my
work first, otherwise because I need to be able to
answer questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so and I really I do.
I love it.

Speaker 5 (17:03):
It's an exciting journey. It's great and good on you
for being then engaged. Sorry just one for the question,
and I do want to take up too much time.
But in terms of the design, like are you focused
on let's say, the appearance of the building. Are you
focused on the performance of the building, are you focused

(17:26):
on cost? Like what's driving your decisions?

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Well, it's going to be our forever home, so I'm
really looking at performance. We've got amazing but insight, so
I'm trying to do something well, I'm looking at solo passive,
so having that concrete based on the glazed windows. And
obviously I wanted to look nice because I want people

(17:55):
to drive by and go, oh my god, what's she done?
So and I have to live in a small quidity,
you know, so yeah it has to look good. But
all of those definitely need to be taken into account
and it is. And also because we've gone through two floods,
you know, finding contractors is really hard. And yeah, I've

(18:18):
got a couple a couple of people lined up who
I'm going to, you know, work through the plumbing plan.
And because I think that's awesome point in corporate all
that when you're designed. I did design once Tinier home.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
Would you consider offsite manufacture?

Speaker 3 (18:35):
I have?

Speaker 4 (18:36):
So this first house we had here was built in Hamilton,
and I was just I was still removed from the process.
To be honest with you, I kind of like could
mentally walk through over and when it turned off, I
was like, and there's something about building. I love getting
my hands dirty. I work in education, and I spent

(18:56):
a lot of time people's heads, actually somebody with my
hands and actually going wow, I did that, incredibly satisfying.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
Let us know how you get on. Please stay in
touch because it's a fascinating process. And you know, I
mean to find a homeowner who's as engaged in the
design process as you are is without being patronizing or
anything quite remarkable. So good on you. I think it'll
be a great build, and having so much knowledge ahead

(19:29):
of it, it should go really really well. But please
do stay in touch. I'll be curious to know where
where you land with your design.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Hey, and done it next time you know you're down
this way for a road, and you should do. Because
one of my boyfriends up and Gusbend, Chris Vince, normally
shout out for him. He is the one who put
me onto you. So you've been put to be inspiring
and help this journey too.

Speaker 5 (19:54):
So yeah, nice to be part of it. You take
care all of this, you please, all of this. What
a fantastic journey that's awesome. Wa at eighty ten eighty
is that number to call? Quick text before we go
to the break. Do you need a permit to install
a second kitchen and a home in Hamilton?

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (20:15):
And whether that's Hamilton or anywhere else in the country,
putting in an extra kitchen absolutely requires a building consent.
Back in a mow, I'm just reading a quite interesting text.
I'll come to that in the moment. Joe, good morning
to you.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Morning to you, sir.

Speaker 7 (20:32):
Hello, Now.

Speaker 8 (20:34):
Hi, just a query.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Do you need a consent to build? Like with sand
and you probably stamp ad in and get your shape right.
And a pond, a small pond? Do you need building consent?

Speaker 9 (20:53):
Now?

Speaker 5 (20:53):
I don't believe you need building consent, but there are
some regulations around the depth of the pond, so it
can only be to a certain depth, and beyond that
it may well on a residential become a Essentially they'll
treat it like a swimming pool, right, and then suddenly

(21:15):
you'll you'll be subject in effect to the Pool Fencing Act,
and you'll need barriers of a certain height and doors
that swing shut and locks that can't be accessible by
small children, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Et cetera.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
So yeah, just just go online find the regulations. I
know a mate who went through it recently and they
just had to make sure that they kept the depth
of a certain amount. And then I'm pretty sure you
don't need a building consent. I mean, how big is
the pond? Are you talking? You know, like five square
meters or fifty or five hundred square meters?

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Is just a baby pond for a couple of well,
I like ecology and I would you call it dragon flies?
And form around that?

Speaker 6 (22:01):
Just what do you what would you call it?

Speaker 5 (22:05):
In some ways? I mean? And again I saw this
on a project a little while ago where they had
as part of their stormwater management for the site, the
storm water actually went into effectively a rain garden. Rain
gardens have become quite popular, and they're popular esthetically because

(22:25):
I think they actually look quite nice, but they're also
really practical in terms of there's a lot of chat
at the moment, and for those people who might be
triggered by sort of new language and all the rest
of it, just tune out for a second. There's a
lot of talk around making our cities more spongy, right
that as we deal with stormwater as an issue for

(22:47):
individuals but also for entire regions. One of the one
of the ways forward is to go. We need to
be able to create environments where when we do get
that really heavy rain, intense rain, short periods of time,
lots of rain in a small period of time. Is
there a way to make our it is more spongy,
to absorb that and then release it slowly over time.

(23:11):
And on an individual level, you can do that, you know,
and part of that might be if you had rainwater tanks,
for example, then you can run them down before weather
event and allow them to fill up so they soak
up some of that capacity. And in the same way,
you can do that with rain gardens and add those
to your landscaping design so that they might hold a

(23:34):
certain amount of water, but they can contain a downpour
and then release that over time. So if you sort
of integrate what you're doing with a pond into some
rain stormwater management, that would be a good thing.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
One another question, would you sorry, would you like so
you clam out the area so space with the big
storm we had to a lake?

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, that was pretty something that wouldn't happen all that
up now? Is that we just start up with sand
compact that put stones and then rock and then maybe wood.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
I think with pond sometimes a little bit of it
is selecting the right type of clay. If you're going
to kind of do a natural one, you want a
clay that's not quite impermeable, but that will hold moisture
because in the end, you want a pond, not a puddle, right,
you know, it's something that needs to hold water over
a period of time. So sometimes it's about this the

(24:41):
right selection of the clay. Also, I guess if it's
relatively shallow and it's not the liner of it isn't impervious,
then it will disappear. You know, if we don't have
rain for two or three weeks, for example, two hundred
millimeters sitting on the ground will just evaporate. So I
guess you've got to think about the design of it

(25:01):
to ensure that it doesn't evaporate when you don't want
it to, because then you'll lose the habitat, you know,
like I say, you want a pond, not a puddle.
But in terms of the building, consent to your original question,
it's all about the depth, as I understand it, So
just check that out.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yeah, I have got a.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
Yeah, right, that'll go well. Good luck with it all,
the best of you. Joe oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty is the number to call the stext
that caught my eye a moment ago. We've gone through
years of building remediation on an apartment building was completed
last year. From day one, the large areas of floating
tiles in the common area and the deck won't drain
properly and the water sits on top of them for ages.

(25:43):
The building and the project manager say it's built to speck.
The tile supplier says that they were working to the specs,
it's not their problem, and the architect says that it's
a tile fault. Of course, the property manager, who oversaw
the whole project takes no responsibility who should take who
should be taking legal action against since everyone is blaming

(26:04):
everyone else. I'll tell you what one place to start
if you want to pursue this is too You need
an pendant advice, and that might be someone like a
registered building surveyor who could come in and determine whether
or not the selection of the tiles meets the code,

(26:24):
whether the installation meets the manufacturer specification give you an
independent bit of advice on there, maybe to send me
an updated text and go. Is the issue that water
sits on top of the tile. So if for example,
it's a six hundred by six hundred tile and it
rains and those tiles are flat, then for a period

(26:46):
of time after it rains, the water will sit on there,
albeit not particularly deep, but it will sit on there
because obviously, the way those systems are designed is that
they are flat, so you get level entry and you
get a flat surface to sit on and put chairs
and tables and those sorts of things on. But obviously
a six hundred by six hundred square of tile, regardless

(27:08):
of texture or whatever, is going to hold water. Not much,
but it will hold water, and eventually that dries or evaporates.
And so that's how those systems work. And if that's
your concern, I don't know that you're actually going to
find that you've got any redress. That's just one of

(27:30):
those things that you know, unless you go for small tiles,
which then has other issues, or you lay those tiles
with fall, which is not how those systems are designed
to it is. That's just the nature of the system. Sorry,
that's not a great answer, but it is an answer. Oh,
eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. We'll talk to Jane and then we'll take

(27:50):
your calls in just a moment.

Speaker 10 (27:51):
Jane, Hello there, Good morning, Good I'm calling about the
auglant In tree plant requirements. Yes, waste water systems on
properties that are not connected to SERACHE. They co chapter
E five point six point one and my question one

(28:16):
of them three I've got suitably qualified on site wastewater
service provider and also where the tank is pumped out
of suitably qualified on site wastewater service provide How do
we find these? Do they have a certification or something?

Speaker 5 (28:43):
To be fair, I'd have to do some research on that.
It's something that has come up, and to be fair,
when I first heard this, I thought, you know, is
this kind of another layer of bureaucracy or another layer
of compliance that's been added to homeowners? And for what reason?
Because for years and years and years, as a homeowner,
if you weren't connected to Mainz waste water, right you

(29:07):
had on site waste disposal, septic tanks and the like,
you just looked after it, right, and if it didn't work,
that was your problem, right If you ended up with
basically poosing the law, that's your problem right now.

Speaker 10 (29:20):
New government said that they were going to stop interference
with what we can do on our own property. That's
a fairly recent comment, but now we're stuck with us
needing to comply.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
Yeah, you are right, and I've heard this from a
number of people, So I would imagine that you know,
when they say suitably qualified. I don't know if there's
actually a qualification for that. It would be interesting to
know and if someone can text me whether there is
a specific qualification. But I guess it's a company that
is either has a registered drain layer or certified drain

(29:59):
layer who's part of the organization that I suppose counselor
then confident that that company, if they take material from
your site, if they pump out the tanks, that they
will then take it to an approved site for disposal,
rather than you know, fly tipping it potentially those sorts

(30:20):
of things. So I look, I'm happy to do a
bit of research. We'll look at that. But it does
seem like this is now common, certainly in Auckland and
quite possibly across the country where where as a homeowner,
used to have to take responsibility and you were expected
to be responsible. Now you have to prove that responsibility
by having a contract to come and do this work

(30:41):
for you.

Speaker 10 (30:42):
Yes, and that's the pottible.

Speaker 5 (30:44):
And how often are you required to have an inspection?
It's like every six months or twelve months now.

Speaker 10 (30:50):
Well, yes, for two that's on a very regular basis.

Speaker 5 (30:56):
How often is it required.

Speaker 10 (31:01):
At least once every three years?

Speaker 5 (31:04):
Okay, once every three years.

Speaker 10 (31:06):
Disposal system should be inspected, secondary and tersary treatment systems
and associated land disposal systems must be servant six months.
I have suitably qualified on site waste provider.

Speaker 5 (31:25):
So it's like getting more on fitness for your car.
All of a sudden that every six months you're down.
You know you're getting someone in And.

Speaker 10 (31:33):
I've lived with septic tanks in this area, which is
Auckland District, since nineteen fifty two.

Speaker 11 (31:43):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
But yes, these are the new regulations. I'm not sure
what happens if you don't comply with the regulations, but
I suspect that if you know, for example, I don't
know what would happen if you didn't comply, But there
is a requirement to comply, so you're supposed to, but
it certainly is a not significant cost on homeowners.

Speaker 10 (32:09):
I would love you to do some edications.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
I'm more happy to do that.

Speaker 10 (32:16):
There are a group of three of us who are
together and we're going ahead with this because we have to.
But we're in the own field, and a very expensive one.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
Yeah, and inevitably the companies that do it have now
been guaranteed a pipeline of work, pardon the pun. And
you know whether or not it stays competitive, that will
be an interesting thing as well.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
Well.

Speaker 10 (32:45):
They started in April with the LISTA. They talked in
two thousand and nineteen about it originally and didn't follow
it up, but have now and all of them are
so busy because this has come through April. Until we're

(33:07):
checked in with somebody to come and do three of them.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
You keep well, I think that's very wise. And look,
there is I suppose particularly for those situations where you know,
while you might not be connected to public waste water
and so you have to contain it, if you're having
to look after your own syread set system and you're

(33:32):
in reasonably close proximity to your neighbors, you can understand
why it's in everybody's interest to make sure that everybody
actually looks after their wastewater systems. Right, So if the
system's not working well and there's potential contamination or these
issues with smell and so on, it's it is sort
of a public good to have them looked after it.

(33:53):
But then you've just that, you know, you've said it
true yep, and since nineteen fifty two you've looked after
your system and it's worked for all of that time,
there's no issues with it, and now suddenly you have
to prove that there's no issues to it.

Speaker 10 (34:10):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (34:10):
Yeah. It would be a good one too, as you say,
a government that's come in going hey we want less
regulation and that sort of thing to go, hey, here's
another thing to have a look at. I have made
some notes stay in touch with my head.

Speaker 10 (34:28):
Who does a person go to?

Speaker 5 (34:32):
I guess you'd start with. If that was me in
that situation, I would probably start with a local drain layer, right,
who I know and trust, and then say to them, look,
can you put me in touch with a contractor who
is you know, reliable and trustworthy and go from there.
So I would start with a local drain layer okay,

(34:54):
all right.

Speaker 10 (34:56):
Talking with you, that's really and assuring all.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
The best take care bother them. A couple of quick
texts that have come in just on that issue as well,
counsels you. We have a list of approved train labs.
Don't know. I don't know if they do text me
and the link or something like that. Interested to see
not something that I've ever seen. Quick text as well,

(35:23):
Hey Pete, I'm interested in the price comparison and using
tilt slab over traditional brick or weatherboard. I'd call, but
I'm heading into an area with bad service. Hopefully I've
caught you in time. Richie. I suspect that tilt slab
would be considerably more expensive only because think about the process,
you know, specific design offsite, manufacture, transportation to site, crane,

(35:45):
higher upspect footings, those sorts of things. Certainly for residential
I would imagine that you would have to be really
and I love the idea, to be fair, I quite
like the idea of doing part of the house out
of tilt slab. In fact, there's a house that was
built not far from me where they extensively use tilt

(36:05):
slab pan for the exterior of the building. And I
love it to bits. It's one of the nicest pieces
of architecture that I've seen in a couple of years
in and around where I happen to live. So I
love the idea, but I would say that the cost
in a residential situation would be considerably more than brick

(36:26):
and certainly more than weather board. Oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty. Will take a short break, will take your calls.
We've still got time before the news, so call us now,
oh eight hundred eighty ten eight. So what I'm unsure
about is whether or not this requirement to prove that
you are maintaining your on site waste water systems is

(36:47):
nationwide or just an Auckland Council requirement so from the
Auckland Council website. So I'm going to assume at the
stage that I'm just going to stick with Auckland. So
primary systems, that's like a septic tank with a disposal field.
These units tend to be older and use simple technology.
There are se secondary or tertiary systems. So secondary and

(37:09):
tertiary systems may have multiple treatment tanks in a disposal field.
They often use electric pumps and have multiple chambers for
increased filtration. So in July twenty twenty two or can
Council send letters to property owners to request their proof
of waste water maintenance. The letter explains the type of
proof that they need and how long you have to

(37:31):
submit these to their records. Failure to maintain your system
may result in a fine or a penalty. Then it
goes on to say who can service your on site
wastewater system. There are many companies in Auckland who service
pump out and repair. Companies listed in the table use
our standard form for servicing. They provide this form directly

(37:54):
to us on your behalf. And then it goes on
to list a reasonably extensive list of companies that I
guess they know are doing the inspections in a way
that complies with the regulations. So there you go. Whether
that's nationwide or not, I'm not absolutely sure. We're going
to kick off the survey in the next hour. So

(38:14):
just if you've just tuned in, I now am increasingly
doing these terribly thought out, unscientific, lacking in any academic
robustness surveys, but I enjoy them. So the moot is
going to be and you just text me and it's
just going to be a number one through to whatever.
How many times in a calendar year would you go

(38:36):
and higher equipment? Now, that could be a water blaster,
it could be a chainsaw, It could be a motormar.
It could be a trailer. It could be a bit
of scaffolding. It could be a furniture trailer, anything like
that that you might go and higher. How many times
in a year would you go and hire equipment? And
what I'm interested to sort of gauge is one, how

(38:58):
often we go and higher gear? And two whether or
not that sort of gives me an insight into that
because we've all got that dilemma of do I buy
something or do I hire it? You know, at what
point does it make sort of economic sense to buy
it versus makes sense to just hire it. I realized
that I'm coming up to the news time, so Anne,

(39:19):
I might get you just to hold because your question
intrigues me to the point where I suspect that it's
not going to be a simple answer. So Anne, if
you could just hold and we'll chat immediately after the
news on my unscientific poll, I'm gonna have to come
up with a neck and a n achronism anagram for

(39:40):
these anyway, we just text me a number. So do
you go to a higher center like I did? I
went to high Pool this week to drop off a
trailer that I'd use to carry some site fencing on.
So that's that's let's call that one hire. I mean,
I hired a trailer to collect it and then I
heard a trailer to take it back because it was
a decent sized amount of gear. But I you know,

(40:02):
I would go from time to time, for example what
I hire last time, like a cherry picker for example,
to do some access, some high access. So actually I'll
try over the break, I will sit down and write
and try and figure out how many times a year
i'd go on high gear. But few, as you know,
if you're reasy, if you're working around the house, how
often would you go to a higher center and hire
some equipment? Take them through? Nine two, nine and two

(40:24):
back with your call straight afternoons Sport and weather top
of the rat eight. So while we're at at folks
and you're tuned in listening to the show, and you're
out doing your bits and pieces as people do. My

(40:44):
survey this morning on the show, and we'll run this
through a little about eight thirty or thereabouts is how
many times a year do you go on higher equipment?
And I'm just kind of curious, and I guess I'm
expecting that most of you who are tuned in are
not necessarily trades people, so you're a homeowner. And to
be fair, I was wandering around today and I was thinking, actually,
you know what I feel like doing water blasting? Nothing

(41:07):
like upsetting the neighbors on a Sunday with a bit
of water blasting, and I might go and do that.
So for my situation, I happen to own a water blaster,
so I don't need to go on hire one. But
if you had the inclination to do some water blasting,
would you go and hire one? Or do you have one?
Or if you needed to help him make to shift
a fridge like I did this week, do you have

(41:29):
your own trailer or would you go and hire one?
You decide you want to cut down a tree, do
you have your own chainsaw? Or would you prefer to
ruin somebody else's and go and hire one? So just
text me a number how many times a year roughly
would you go and hire equipment? I'd be fascinated to know. Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Good day, Pete wolf Camp here,
this is the resident builder on Sunday, and we're talking

(41:50):
all things building and construction. The lines are open. The
number to call eight hundred eighty ten eighty and I've
got to be news coming up for you in just
a moment. Two and good morning, thanks for waiting.

Speaker 8 (42:01):
Good morning, hi, Patter. So good situation is I have
a new build, it's eleven months old, and you know
the extraction event that you have in the ceiling of
your bathroom to take out the moist air. Yes, yep,
I have one of those also in say like a

(42:25):
cupboard where a washing machine is located. My situation is
over winter, I had moisture trickly in through the event
into the house, through the event in this cupboard area.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
Should that happen?

Speaker 5 (42:49):
Interestingly enough, I have encountered it only I think on
one occasion where, again a new build, after a period
of time, the homeowner got back in touch and said, hey, look,
I've noticed that I've got connensation coming out or moisture
coming out. And so as a contractor, you immediately think shivers.

(43:11):
Is there a pipe that's leaked and it happens to
be dripping into there and coming out. It is more
likely to be condensation that's collecting in the pipe and
then draining backwards and dropping out through the extraction and
into that area. The fact that it happens in two locations,
because it's not particularly common, so.

Speaker 8 (43:32):
It's one one one of these.

Speaker 6 (43:35):
Only one of the only one of them.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
Does okay, I suspect that it's condensation that's there. It
could be that the where's the comment? Do you think
that there's any possibility that moisture is being driven in

(43:57):
from the outlet of the extraction in to the to
the ducting.

Speaker 8 (44:07):
To the designer of the house earlier in the week,
and he suggested that it could be not installed properly
because he said to me, it shouldn't you shouldn't have
this moisture coming into the house. It was the middle
of winter as well, and there's very high humidity where
I live in the middle of winter outside.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Yeah, I mean, look, it's possible that during the extraction process, right,
so you've got that moisture that you're extracting out, it's
obviously laden with moisture, and so when you turn it.

Speaker 8 (44:43):
Actually, sorry, I had this put in looking ahead in
case I ever put a dry as here. But there's
a washing machine there, but it always runs on cooler temperature,
and it's I don't believe it's a moist environment at

(45:05):
all apart from a washing machine. Does operation there?

Speaker 5 (45:08):
Yeah? Now the extraction point that you're discussing, does it
have mechanical extraction attached to it?

Speaker 8 (45:15):
Yes, you flick a switch in the sand goes like
in a bassroom.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Right, okay. And is it on the water on the ceiling.

Speaker 8 (45:24):
It's on the ceiling, okay.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
So it's purely extraction for moisture for air, rather than
it's not ducting for the dryer to duct the dryer dryer.
I think it's most likely to be condensation that's collecting
and deducting and then draining backwards right and drop it

(45:48):
back out again. I mean that's how much water comes
out or how much moisture you.

Speaker 8 (46:00):
During this particular period of time, it was trickling out
over number of days. At one point, I just after
it had been emptied out, I got up there and
I tuned a little captain, and I took out I
think about sixty mil And the next day more was

(46:23):
tricking now, so.

Speaker 5 (46:25):
This is moisture that's trickling out of Like typically there's
a grill that sits on the ceiling, so you're removing
that grill and water is draining out from there.

Speaker 8 (46:35):
Yeah, there's a little round dome sing it's actually got
a channel around the outside that presumably maybe there's capture
some moisture and that was just full and overflowing.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
H Okay, I'll tell you what. I may need to
go and chat with an expert, And as it happens,
we've got one of those sort of on tap, which
is a storm who has been a guest on the
show who's basically an extraction and ventilation expert. So I'll
give her a call during the week and put that

(47:09):
to her. I think it'll be condensation, but it's still
a little bit unusual for that amount, like sixty mils
is not an inconsiderable amount of condensation to accumulate in
the ducting and be coming backwards. Given so and from
the inlet, So inside your laundry where the stuckt is

(47:31):
to the outside, what's the distance of that run.

Speaker 8 (47:36):
Approximately approximately four meters, no more than four and a half.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
Okay, yeah, so it's unlikely to be driving back in
from outside and outside the grill that's been attached to
the outlet, is that one of the ones that has
a little flap on it, so that when air is
pushing out, the flaps rise and allows their to go out,
and then when you turn it off, the flaps drop

(48:02):
down like a louver and seal the entry.

Speaker 8 (48:06):
Okay, that's a good question. It's got a little hood
thing on the outside of the house, and I haven't
seen up inside the hood.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
So okay, that would be interesting to know too, because
I think to get compliance these days you need the
hood which stops air basically outside air pushing back in
to the house. But then most of them also have
it's either three or four little louver blades or flaps
on them that drop back down and seal the extraction

(48:38):
when it's not used, and then as soon as you
turn it on, the air pressure from the fan pushes
those open and it allows air to escape. But when
it's not running, they should close down again, So that
might be a contributing factor. But look, I've written myself
a note, so stay tuned next week and I'll make
sure I raise this again.

Speaker 8 (48:58):
Now build. Does a builder have to rectify things like
this within a certain time period.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
I think it's not unreasonable for you to say, hey, look,
this shouldn't be happening. Therefore, I'd like you to come
and find a solution. And chances are the main contractor
will say that it's the electrician's fault. The electrician will
say that it's the plumber's fault. The plumber will say
that it's the builder's fault. The builder will say that
it's the manufacturer's fault. The manufacturer will say that the

(49:29):
electrician didn't install it directly. And you know, maybe one
day someone will come and fix it. Someone has ticked
through and see, you know, ideally, well, like deducting ultimately
will run uphill to some degree because if it's in
the ceiling, it will go up and then it will
go over. So there's always going to be a point

(49:51):
at which the extraction rises. But it's again and that's
you know, like that bend. So is it a two
story house or single story house? No, it's single story,
single story. So the fan is mounted in the ceiling space,
so you could get access to that, okay, because it

(50:11):
may well be like often with ducting, we assume that
it has some sort of magical power, right, And I've
seen all sorts of ducting installed with twists and bends
and crushed and all the rest of it. So ducting
needs to be installed properly in order for these systems
to work. And in fact, I had this discussion with
a guy on Friday who came round to talk about

(50:33):
extraction actually on a project, and because I've got an
issue where I'm not getting sufficient extraction out of a bathroom.
So I've now this company of Simmics have just released
a brand new type of extraction which has a moisture
or a humidity sensor in it, so it knows when
it needs to turn on and how much it needs

(50:54):
to turn on. So it's a smart, very smart system.
So I'm about to install that in a project where
I've had a persistent issue with moisture in a bathroom.
And we were talking exactly about the need to get
your ducting right. You know that sweeping ben straight runs,
not crushing at all, those sorts of things, So it
might be worth getting someone to go into the ceiling
and just have a look at how that ducting has

(51:16):
been installed as well, just to make sure that it's
done to the manufacturer's requirements to ensure that it's going
to work properly. So there's a bit of complexity around it. Okay,
I'll stay in touch, so tune in next week and
I'll make sure I have a chat with Storm about this.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
Much.

Speaker 5 (51:34):
All the best, Bye by Ride. Oh Michael, good morning
to you.

Speaker 6 (51:38):
Oh, good morning, Peter.

Speaker 12 (51:40):
Hey, what I wring about this. I've got a house
at christ Church, YEP, which I'm in the process of
I'm moving out of and I'm going to rent it out.
I've got attached garage, attach single garage, and it's got
a stipple ceiling and I've had a test it and
it's positive business. And I want to replace that ceiling anyways,
because it's got a whole in one quarter. So yes,

(52:01):
that's pretty pretty clear cautity to do that. While i've
got it, I've had a look. I've still got about
thirty square meters of rooms in the house. There's a
small bedroom, a bathroom, and a laundry and a toilet.
But I've still got stifle stiple ceilings. They weren't they
weren't repaired after the earthquake because they were rooms that

(52:22):
had absolutely no damage in it, you know what I mean.
The rest of the house was where the stifle ceilings
were got rid of. And now I'm wondering that. I've
had three contractors look at the job. All of them
say the same thing. The ceiling, these stiple ceilings in
these three rooms are in very very good order. I
mean there's no you know, there's nothing broken. And they say,

(52:44):
you don't need to do that, but you can. You
can because how it's going to be in so I
can't do it. But it's just the face. There will
be a bit of damage to the walls when they
because they'll drop the ceiling out, you see, they won't
scrape it off.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 12 (53:00):
What I'm wondering is how how critical well, no, not
so critical. Do you think it's a good idea? Do
I do rip the stiffle seeing out rather than leave
it there? Even though it said good order? I mean
there's no say, there's no cracks or anything. A three
separate contract there's all said, there's no need to do it.
I mean you're putting tendency here. Nobody's going to yeah, nobody, Yeah,

(53:22):
what what would your attitude be on that?

Speaker 5 (53:25):
Look? I guess if you're taking the approach as a
as an investor or as a landlord, you're looking at
return on investment, right, So if you go ahead and
spend whatever a couple of several thousand dollars in pulling
the ceilings down, you just.

Speaker 12 (53:39):
Will probably probably looking at close I'd say you're probably
looking about fifteen thousand dollars by the place you've by
the time you've replaced.

Speaker 5 (53:47):
And because we've got two different issues, haven't we. We got
one where you've got asbestos, so it's in your interest
to remove that. That's a good thing to do. The
other thing, then, is okay, I've got a similar ceiling
which kind of dates the house in another part of
the house. So I guess I would look at it
as an investor and go, okay, I'm going to spend

(54:08):
this amount of money. Am I going to either get
a return on my investment by getting slightly better rent
for the property? Or am I increasing the value of
the house so that when I inevitably go to sell it,
it makes it more saleable and I'll get a return
on my investment. Then, And if those numbers stack up,
then do it. Because from a practical point, of view,
the ceiling's in good condition, it's not leaking, it's not

(54:30):
falling down. Those sorts of things. There's actually no reason
to do it. The only reason you would do it
is is it going to increase the value of my asset.
That's how I would.

Speaker 12 (54:42):
Say it probably could do them, but it couldn't it here, Yeah,
because there's no there's no oblique I mean, no ten's
going to come in here and say something wrong with
that ceiling sort of thing. You wouldn't even.

Speaker 5 (54:56):
So I'm saying that, you know, purely, I guess from
an investment point of view. I'm not thinking about it
in terms of aesthetics or anything like that. Yes, a
nice flat, new ceiling would look lovely. Does it? Does
it get you an extra dollar and rent? And to
be fair, if it doesn't, then you kind of go,
why would.

Speaker 13 (55:13):
You do it?

Speaker 12 (55:14):
Rue it's not going to make any extra Yeah, because
it's not going to make any difference to it that
tended Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
But saying that, you you know, inevitably we end up
selling these sorts of places. So do you go, Actually,
if I do it now and I put the property
on the market in a couple of years, time, five
years time, whenever. And it's presented like that, is it
going to be more attractive to a buyer, and I
can do it now and offset some of the costs,
et cetera, et cetera, then maybe it makes sense. But

(55:43):
to me it would just be you do the numbers
and if the numbers point you in that direction, you
go for it.

Speaker 12 (55:48):
Yeah, good luck at the value eventually.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Then then maybe it's worth investing in all the rest you, Michael,
take care, We'll take short break. We'll be back with
Martin in just a moment. You and new Still said
b twenty five minutes after seven, and Martin a very
good morning to you.

Speaker 6 (56:06):
Good morning, Peter, thanks to this opportunity.

Speaker 11 (56:09):
Peter.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
I'm reclatting my house and cedar shingles yellow Canadian cedar shingles,
and we ordered these or group we've got these four
years ago and now there's only red singer shows yes,
and I'm six bundle sport. Oh cunning ideas or anybody.

(56:32):
I've been on marketplace and trade men can't find anyon.
Wonder if anybody or you might know how I might
find some seedar shingles short of a three month delivery
ordered out of Canada.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
Ah, okay, so you've obviously gone back to the original supplier. Yeah,
I have to say, just between you and I don't
actually like yellow cedar shingles. But that's a terrible thing
to say, given that you've chosen to use it on
the clouding. My preference has always been for the red ones.

(57:03):
But saying that I have installed them, and I I,
are you doing shingles as cladding or as roofing, planting, platting,
all extensively or just sort of as a detail thing.

Speaker 6 (57:16):
No, extensively right around and we're we've put on a
little extension. I did that and then did half of
the house. Now I'm doing the other half of the
house to match it.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (57:30):
I was always going to do, but financially I just
held off for a few years. And there I've got
myself in this situation.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
Just a technical thing then in order to do see
the shingles, obviously they're fixed to a substrate. So the
plywood is the plywood on a cavity or is the
plywood direct fixed to the framing.

Speaker 6 (57:52):
It's it's fixed to a the framing with with new
you know, new paper and ply Yep, some of it
some of the claarly we've taken the old clay was
taken off, yes, which is fiber plank called aigdi plank,
called ever it's called. That's taken off and you know, repaved, applied,

(58:16):
and the shingles going over the top of that.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
Yeah, okay, So the dilemmas you need six bundles of shingles.
How many square meters in a bundle? Roughly, It's been
a while since I've.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Put some up.

Speaker 6 (58:27):
I think about three and a half.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
I was going to say it's about three. Feels like
a yeah, yeah, I say, I do.

Speaker 9 (58:36):
I know.

Speaker 5 (58:36):
I made the comment about the color sleeping. I love
doing shingles, and one of the happiest jobs I did
a couple of years ago was replacing the shingles over
an eyebrow on an old villa on a bay window,
and often the center window has a little eyebrow, a
little awning over the top of it, right, which is
kind of ornamental. And then it's got the original Cali shingles,

(58:58):
which were all ripped down so though they were exactly
the same width, and then mited or basically they had
like an arrowhead on them, a point on them. So
when I replace those, I grab some new cedar shingles,
rip them all down to the same size, cut them
all so that they had the arrowhead on it, and
reinstated it. And I mean, and I've done quite a

(59:22):
on bungalows and that, you know, bay windows where your
cedar underneath the window or a gable end for example. Yeah,
I really do love doing them. I can understand where
you're going for cedar shingles on the outside sounds great. Look,
I tell you what best betters, go back to Hope
my producer. Leave your number. If someone texts in and goes,
actually I've got six bales of yellow cedar shingles and

(59:45):
I can do you a deal, then that's great. Otherwise,
I think unless you've rung around, you've probably gone to
South Pacific, You've gone to Hernpack, You've gone to a
couple of the other big suppliers. If they've have you
tried South Pacific.

Speaker 6 (59:57):
Timber in Auckland, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:59):
Okay, that's who I typically buy shingles from. Hern Pack.
Yeah yeah, rosen Felt and Kitsen Yes, yeah, okay, you've
had all the places that I would if someone happens
to have sex bundles. They can contact Martin, leave you
number with hope we'll see what happens.

Speaker 6 (01:00:18):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
Otherwise three months it'll still be summer. So don't worry
about that. Take care. Oh what a dilemma. Look, it happens,
you know, and inevitably you are either over order under order.
It is a real skill to get just the right quantity,

(01:00:42):
So I'm not giving them a hard time for that.
A couple of texts that are come in with regard
to the condensation, So this is the whole issue of
moisture dripping out, So condensation dripping out of the ceiling
vent pipe, so it's extraction from a laundry area and
a bit of moisture drops out. So it seems like

(01:01:02):
the consensus from people is pretty much along the lines
of deducting has been maybe not quite correctly installed. It's
too much of it, as going uphill the fan might
be a bit underspect in terms of it's not pushing
the moisture out. I always think that fans should be
set to a timer which keeps them running for a

(01:01:22):
period of time after you've actually turned them off, just
to continue to do the extraction. And like the one
that I picked up on Friday. This is the Simix
one that I picked up. I'm going to test out.
It has a humidity sensor on it, so it will
continue to run when it senses that it needs to
run and when it's not required in terms of registering

(01:01:45):
the humidity in the room, it will continue to run
essentially continuously at a very low level so that there's
always airflow in the room. So it'll be interesting to
see if that deals with this issue in a particular bathroom.
Seven thirty one. Do we need to take a break?

Speaker 11 (01:02:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Where are no?

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
Not yet? Yes, we do. Hang on, Mary, I'll be
with you in just a moment. Just a couple of
quick texts that have come in with regard to Michael's
comments about replacing the ceiling. So this is an existing
building that's about to become a rental, but isn't one
right now, And that's an important point. One of the
ceilings that was tested contains asbestos the material ACM, and

(01:02:24):
so they've decided that they're going to remove that. The
other ceilings look similar but are not don't contain any
asbestos material in them, so there's no requirement or there's
no urgent need to replace those. So the question was,
look do I do it? And I, in that discussion said, well,
I guess there's the potential for deductibility and someone has

(01:02:48):
TechEd through it quite rightly. Hey Pete, but concerned that
you suggested that fixing the ceilings of a potential rental
would be deductible. From a tax perspective, that would be
a capital expense. Deductibility can be a complex matter, but
in essence, the property has to be rented first in
order to claim against income is done prior to being rented,
then the cost is a capital one suggests you stick

(01:03:10):
to your knitting. Thank you very much for the text. No,
I appreciate it, and I'm not suggesting that it's not.
He would need to make sure that he followed the regulations.
If there is some opportunity for deductibility, then you've got
to have the right conditions, and one of those is
that the property has to be are rental rather than
becoming a rental. So thanks very much for your texts.

(01:03:31):
I appreciate that someone's also calling me a hypocrite because
I'm someone who detests people mowing their lawns on Sunday.
The test might be a bit of a strong word,
but you're going to be doing the water blasting on Sunday.
Water blasting motor mowing. Not really the same thing. Not
quite as noisy, not quite as that piercing sound. Actually,
speaking about piercing sounds, here's a good teach email from Dave. Hey, Pete,

(01:03:54):
can you give me the rules around the installation of
a heat pump. Our neighbors have installed one and we
can hear it throughout the house and outside on our deck.
The houses are close together. This is modern living. The
offending pump is about two and a half meters from
our boundary and goes on for about twelve hours a day.
Not sure if it hears the sound or their pool.

(01:04:16):
I'm not sure what that is. Surely there must be
rules about how much noise they can make. They say
they don't see it as a problem. Thanks from Dave. Dave,
I don't know if there are any specific rules. I
would imagine that if the heat pump, the outdoor unit,
was located on the boundary, you'd probably have a concern.
Two and a half meters from the boundary. Do you
have a right to say, hey, look, it's a bit annoying.

(01:04:39):
I mean they can be noisy. I don't know if
you know the answers to that. See me a text.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call Mary? Good morning?

Speaker 14 (01:04:50):
Yes hi? Now is it Peter or Peter?

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
I don't mind. To be fair, let's stick with Pete.

Speaker 14 (01:04:56):
Okay, Well, I've got my Peter tucked up in bed still.

Speaker 12 (01:05:00):
All right?

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
You leave them there and you chat away to me.

Speaker 14 (01:05:03):
Yes, well, our property six hundred and seventy five square meters.
So we keep getting developers popping notes and you know,
to buy the place, and we've been told they could.
When they take it, they would pull our house down
and put up for two or three story units whatever.

(01:05:25):
Now I'm wondering, is it feasible for us to try
and do that ourselves, perhaps, you know, get someone take
the house away and then go and rent a property ourselves,
and get someone to come and build the four places
for us and on sell them. We'd have to get

(01:05:47):
a mortgage on the property. Would that be feasible or
would it cost too much?

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
I guess it's feasible, but you would have to You've
got to do your numbers, and you know, with the
greatest respect, I've seen any number of sort of first
time developers come a cropper in a massive way, right,
you know, where they didn't get their numbers, or they're

(01:06:16):
they're trying to do the project management themselves and they
can't keep it control of the budget or the progress.
They run into unexpected, you know, like if it's the
successful developers that I know are obviously extremely experienced, right,
so they can look at a site, they can figure
out planning regulations, storewater regulations, resource consent, They've got their

(01:06:39):
contractors lined up, they know what type of building methodology
is cost effective. So if you have to try and
learn all of that and do the development yourself, yes
there is opportunity, but I would suggest that there is
also significant risk.

Speaker 14 (01:06:58):
And dory I hate GJ gardener a high in places
that they sound really reasonable and I thought, well, I'd
just get someone to come and do it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):
Yes, well, that's certainly an option, and I've heard similar ads,
and I know of a couple of people have done
exactly that. You happen to be sitting on a piece
of land that has development potential, but you would also
before you even went into this, you'd need to go
and get some maybe some independent planning advice as to

(01:07:33):
what's feasible. You'd need to get someone to check things like,
you know, accessibility to services. And again, you know, one
of the risks of development is along the lines of Okay,
I want to do it, but then council's going to
require an upgrade to the wastewater system, for example, and
suddenly I'm responsible for upgrading a council line, or I'm

(01:07:57):
going to bridge over an existing line, or you know,
even the cost of adding more water meters. You know,
ten twelve years ago a water meter was about eighteen
hundred dollars. Today in Auckland anyway, last time, well the
last one that I was aware of, they are about
fifteen thousand dollars per water meter. So you know, all

(01:08:19):
of these things you've got to look at costs. And
at the moment, all of the discussion among the developers
is basically, we can't build houses for less than we
can buy them, so people are not buying and the
development thing has just falling off a cliff. Now it's
coming back slowly, but for the last eighteen months or so,

(01:08:40):
it's just falling off a cliff.

Speaker 14 (01:08:41):
So well, we're living in a street or the road.
They've got that many houses pulled down and buildings going up.
It's quite busy the on and of course too, we'd
have to we wouldn't really get a discount. We'd have
to pay the full price on the building, wouldn't we

(01:09:04):
The developers would have all at their own price, their
own cost.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
Again, the developers, you know, they'll they'll have contacts either
with merchants or with suppliers, and you know they'll know
where to go to get the best cost out that
sort of thing. Yeah, all of that.

Speaker 14 (01:09:20):
So look, the many other things I had thought of
then is quite often we've had land agents come around
and they said, oh, look at that back that should
be gone, and I realized we could perhaps sell hat,
you know, across these the back section, but I'm not
quite sure of the width on the side of the

(01:09:40):
house where they'd have to come up, although the land
agents have never questioned it. They've just looked out the
back and said, oh, wow, you've got all that, So
maybe that'd be.

Speaker 5 (01:09:55):
Tell you it's a gold plated opportunity in order to
get the listing. So just that, I think that the
most challenging thing for you will be finding someone to
give you independent advice on us.

Speaker 14 (01:10:06):
And someone I look to to.

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
Talk to, maybe a local planner. I mean, look by
all the means, you know, I have an engagement with
the company. I suppose. The hard thing is like anyone
that you you talk to who is involved in the
in the development game is going to want to encourage
you to partner with them, right, So it's that independent

(01:10:32):
advice is going to be the most challenging thing to get. Look,
I'm not sure that I'm going to give you much
more information and advice apart from great opportunity be.

Speaker 14 (01:10:46):
Cautious, yes, when that has in help anyway, Lovely, Mary.

Speaker 5 (01:10:52):
My pleasure, all the very best, Take care then, Hey, Nick,
good morning, how are you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Hey?

Speaker 5 (01:10:58):
Good things good?

Speaker 9 (01:10:59):
Hey. Look, I'm thinking of purchasing a property and just
in the process of doing my due diligence. Believe it's
got the I guess monolithic clouding. It's going to fiberc
ent board, what looks like textured stack directly, yes, DirectX ye.

(01:11:20):
Just looking to get a little bit of advice in
what to lookout for. I know it's got the overhanging eves.
There seems to be good air floor around it. It's
been painted regularly as far as I can tell. But
I mean, I'm going to be getting a builder building
inspection done on it, moisture test and all that sort
of thing. But just is there any other science symptoms

(01:11:41):
to look out for?

Speaker 5 (01:11:42):
Yeah? Again, I think the fact that even you're going
to engage with hopefully a licensed professional, suitably qualified and
experience to determine whether or not there's any moisture in
gress issues is the best advice I could give you.
So I think if your head down it. But you
know what, we there's been a lot of discussion around

(01:12:03):
the quality of pre purchased inspections. So make sure that
the person that you're contracting to do the work is
suitably qualified. You know, there are standards. There is a
New Zealand standard for pre purchase inspections. Make sure the
person has got some qualification, that they've got insurance in
place so that if their advice is not that great

(01:12:26):
that you know, they could cover themselves for that. So yeah,
look again these Yeah, the one thing we know about
these systems is they have been the source of enormous
issues in terms of weather tightness. So I think if
you told me ten different platting types and then you
describe that one. I'd go, that's the one to be

(01:12:48):
most cautious about, saying that. I also know systems that
were installed twenty years ago that perform absolutely perfectly fine.
So I'm also not making the assumption that every type
of house with that building methodology or that clouding system
will fail, but we do know lots that did so,
and making sure you get really good sound advice from

(01:13:08):
an experienced person is the way to go.

Speaker 9 (01:13:11):
That's great. Any ideas of any names out there that.

Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
Look if you you know, if you want to be
absolutely sure, then if you go to the New Zealand
Institute of Building Surveyors website. So registered building surveyors have
a whole different qualification to them. They will have people
that conduct pre purchase inspections. If they're a member of
that organization, you can be pretty confident about their ability. Awesome,

(01:13:39):
take care, good luck, all the best. Bye. By then
I'm going to take short break, me back and just
you and New Stork. Se'd be a little bit of
an update for you as well. Are we project or
actually not that we reasonably significant project that I've been
working on the last couple of months or the team
have been working on is to create some online content,
to create some video content. So as of now, there

(01:14:01):
is a resident Builder YouTube channel, which over time will
be populated with a whole bunch of videos, including things
about building consents, schedule, one of the act, working with
trades people, code of ethics, and so on, and over
time I'll populate it more and more so on YouTube
these days, if you search for resident Builder, you should

(01:14:22):
find it there. You can also go to just my
Facebook page, so resident Builder, there's a link there. The
first couple of sort of teaser videos will be uploaded shortly,
but there should be a lot of content coming up
over time on that particular platform as well. And I'll
let you know. We talk about insulation, and we talk
about compliance and inspections and those sorts of things. So

(01:14:43):
they as they emerge, I will talk to you about them.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call Lynette.

Speaker 13 (01:14:50):
Hello, Oh my goodness, thanks Quicks, thank you, good morning.

Speaker 5 (01:14:55):
Mucking around on this show.

Speaker 13 (01:14:59):
Just as well, I'm just ringing. I'm going thinking of
going into a villag yes, you know, a retirement village.
Now it's up north round about the towerong I won't
mention any names. It's round about the Towerong Away and
it's sort of not near the coast. Now they've sent

(01:15:19):
me a plan and everything, but my family keeps going
on and asking me, I'm just about to sign the
contract and you only have to put if you only
have to put one thousand dollars down and you can
get a refund anyway. Our family keep going on, what
is it made of?

Speaker 11 (01:15:33):
What is it this?

Speaker 13 (01:15:34):
And what is it that? And when is it going
to be built? You know, when is it going to
be ready to be occupied?

Speaker 15 (01:15:40):
All this stuff?

Speaker 13 (01:15:42):
So I wanted to know what I should be asking them,
if I should be asking them for a plan that
they submit to the council on all the materials and
everything that are going to be used, and what sort
of heating and everything. Is there a plan that they
submit to the council.

Speaker 5 (01:16:01):
Oh, undoubtedly it will require a building consent. Can I
just say, Annie, I think that I mean this is
sort of I'm a little bit familiar with it because
my mum lives in a retirement village right and has
done for the last ten years. So well, Mum's next

(01:16:22):
birthday she'll be ninety two, so you know, oh well.

Speaker 13 (01:16:25):
I'm eighty two, so that's springhee.

Speaker 11 (01:16:28):
It'll be you know, so.

Speaker 13 (01:16:29):
That if I go into one now, a lit'll b
be about the same thing I'll have got will be
there for the.

Speaker 5 (01:16:34):
Next twenty years. Look, I tell you what I think,
you know, in terms of the construction and that sort
of thing. You know, the big operators, they're building for
the long term, right, so durability of their buildings is
kind of it's their issue, not yours, because remember, what
you're purchasing is a license to occupy. You're not going

(01:16:58):
to be responsible for the maintenance and for the upkeep
and those sorts of things. So in part, it's sort
of irrelevant in a sense for you to go.

Speaker 4 (01:17:08):
Into all of that detail.

Speaker 5 (01:17:10):
Like if there's an issue with the exterior cladding, you're
not the one out there painting it. They are, you
know what I mean. So I think, look, it is
advisable for you to get your own independent legal advice
before signing these contracts. And I've heard that from a
number of lawyers over the years, is that you know,
just to make sure that you know what's coming up,

(01:17:33):
that you know what happens when you are no longer
occupying the building, because that varies from provider to provide it.
So it's it's more a legal question than a building one.
I feel.

Speaker 13 (01:17:47):
Right the price of eight hundred and sixty, I suppose
that's reasonable anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:17:55):
It's much of the discussion at the moment is around
what happens when you don't occupy. You know, when you've
finished with the occupation of the building. You know, some
of them allow for capital gains, some don't have high
fees at the end, et cetera, et cetera. But those
are their their legal issues, and I suggest that you
do get independent legal advice. Like with any contract, make

(01:18:18):
sure that somebody who knows what they're looking at looks
over it. I would do exactly the same thing, and
certainly we did when our parents looked at moving in.

Speaker 13 (01:18:27):
So yes, yes, you know that that goes I did
ask them, because they have they have the their place,
they have you get the full capital gain if you
leave the place. But of course if they might want
to do a refurbish, that's the thing, mightn't they Then.

Speaker 5 (01:18:46):
You need to look at what those fees are and
those sorts of things you know, so independent legal advice.
Talk to your lawyer, have them locked through it for you,
and then go ahead, and I wish you all the best.
It is but it's an investment in your future, so
hope it all goes well for you.

Speaker 13 (01:19:04):
Hey, thanks very much.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
Mike, keasure take care right, all the best bye by
then oh Man got a heap of texts about Mary's issue.
So sitting on six hundred and seventy five square meters
potential development, including this one. Hey, Pete, low blow to
the real estate agents. Hey, some of my best friends
are real estate agents. I've recently been involved Da da

(01:19:28):
da da da. Where is it? Where's it gone? Where's
it gone?

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Where it's gone?

Speaker 5 (01:19:31):
I've recently been involved in the rebuild. Lots of other
people are unprofessional, including all of the chippies. So don't
go knocking the real estate agents. Is the gist of
that one. No, I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying that,
you know, in the end, if you're to get advice,
you want to feel that you're getting advice from someone
who doesn't have a vested interest in it. Right, that's

(01:19:51):
independent advice, and maybe that's real estate agent, maybe it's
a developer. Maybe it's a planner, but it's got to
be independent. You've got to feel confident that it's independent.
So I think that's interesting. A couple of other people
have said, hey, look we we've done projects and we've
used companies and they've been excellent. Other people are saying, hey, look,
you know you're probably up for between four to five

(01:20:14):
hundred thousand dollars worth of investment before you even get
to build them. So in terms of planning, infrastructure upgrades, excavation,
removal of the house and that sort of thing. So
do you have access to those sorts of funds and
you can you basically afford to do it and be
there at the end and be confident that you're making

(01:20:36):
some profit out of it. So it's an interesting one.
After the break, Malcolm Fleming. I caught up with him.
We're going to catch up with him after the break.
He is the chief executive of Certified Builders New Zealand.
When the government started talking you're a Newstalk ZB it
could climb past at eight thirty. But in a moment,
Malcolm Fleming z B. Malcolm Fleming, thank you very much

(01:20:59):
for joining me in the studio today. I really appreciate
the time that we can spend together. So just tell
us about your role as chief executive Certified Builders and
broadly what specified builders do within the industry.

Speaker 16 (01:21:12):
Well pleased to be here. First of all, Pete New
Zealand Certified Billers. I'm the chief executive. I've been there
for a little over two years now, so I have
a team of a little one to twenty people and
we have two offices at Torona in Wellington. So that's
what we're about. In terms of New Zealand Certified Builders,

(01:21:34):
we have three thousand members. It's quite a big footprint.
The bulk of that is two thousand, three hundred business
members and the advert size of those business operations would
be four to six. We do have outliers of up
to two hundred, but pretty much just for six people.
The big thing with indied CB members business level would

(01:21:56):
individual that they must be trade qualified in carpentry. That's
how prerequisite membership, something we're really proud of. So as
well as those twenty three hundred business members with a
director's trade qualified was they have another four hundred and
fifty individual members who trade qualified and they might be
working at a merchant or a Politech and so forth,
and more recently, I've got two hundred training members, which

(01:22:18):
are apprentices in training they who work for NDCB business members.

Speaker 5 (01:22:23):
Okay, might talk about training and pathways forward a little
bit later on. The reason I wanted to reach out
is I have been absolutely fascinated and captivated by the
public discourse around building and building science and code changes
that's in a sense being prompted by a change of
government a new minister, Chris Penk who I had the

(01:22:44):
opportunity to interview a couple of weeks ago, and I
suppose they've made it very clear that their intents to
try and speed up building, to add efficiency and ideally
to reduce cost. And so the idea that was floated
is the Minister seemingly has had a discussion with people
who have indicated that well, changing h one increasing the standards,

(01:23:07):
which came into effect last year in November, is going
to add forty to fifty thousand dollars to the cost
of a house. And I guess if you're a politician,
you'd look at that and go, gosh, I can save
New Zealanders fifty thousand dollars on the cost of their
building by rolling back H one and so that was
what was put out right, that's the moot for the discussion.
The response has been fascinating because a number of groups

(01:23:30):
have come forward to go, hold on, we don't agree
with those figures. We certainly don't agree with it. In principle.
Our building code is arguably a number of generations behind
similar countries around the world. And then I read with
real interest that yourselves, I guess as a builders group,
have come forward and said, actually we don't agree either,

(01:23:51):
and more to the point, we're going to prove it.
So just walk me through that response to that government
discussion around let's wind back H one and it's going
to cost fifty grand. Where did your numbers end up?

Speaker 16 (01:24:04):
So we did two things which the Minister is aware of.
So talking to the Minister a couple of weeks before
the story broke, we indicated that well, one that the
NDEDCB would not be in support a reversal of H
one and just picking up on your remarks, what is
H one? So it's an increased insulation level, getting us

(01:24:29):
closer New Zealand closer to where we should be aligned
with international companies that we look up to. It should
aspire to and H one's regulation. So it's not a
new regulation, there's an upgrade of a regulation. And this
upgrade in twentyy three was a big jump up. And
we talked about at the time that when they went

(01:24:51):
out with their proposals and submissions they were unundated. Is
one of the largest number of submissions that they'd received
in the main very positive and supportive of the change.
So it's quite a big thing time. And this was
talking about the anecdotal forty to fifty thousand yes number
we indicated to them. We thought that was too high.

(01:25:15):
We under talked to do some work with our members
and survey them. So we did two things. One, we
did that survey and we got about eighty responses from
our members and there was a variety of size homes
in there, and there's a variety of values in them.
And so we looked at the data set and pulling

(01:25:37):
out some outliers, like there was a six million dollar
home in the set and a nine point four million
dollar home in the set, taking those typical New Zealand
not maybe the forty fifty thousand dollars a cost was
for shape figure home. But so it came out a
little bit, asked our members to deconstruct their last new

(01:25:57):
built and create a value on that, and it came
out just a touch over eighteen thousand dollars, and we
had indicated to the Minister we're ten to twenty k
adding in the outliers. It was still under nineteen thousand
dollars additional, but we took that a step further. We're
just developing with one of the largest architectural practices in

(01:26:19):
his z own design, Grip Stable with an Elliott, the
first two of what will be a suite of what
we called NJEDCB Studio. So architect designed homes really smart,
want them to be affordable. Sustainability a big driver of
that when we're costing those up with your QS, which
is a QS firm that we have a relationship with.

(01:26:43):
They put us together with Matt Douda over at Ebos
and they were looking for a case study for H one,
so we agreed that we'd use these first two designs
for to be studio. It was ninety two square meter

(01:27:03):
two bedroom home and one hundred and four square meter
three bedroom home as though as case studies. So we
wound back the insallation requirements for those builds to the
beer basics to adhere to the new H one regulation. Yep,
the findings of that. But for the two bedroom home,

(01:27:25):
we looked at what additional cost does each one create
over in above twenty twenty three four another previous H
one to the cost of these builds under the schedule method,
which is often to referred to as the blunt instrument,
it is. Yes, So it's looking at each elevation, looking
at the floor, looking at the ceiling, each different aspect

(01:27:48):
of the build and trying to get one hundred percent
on each of those aspects.

Speaker 6 (01:27:52):
Yep.

Speaker 16 (01:27:53):
Using that blunt instrument approach the schedule for the two
bedroom it added eleven four hundred dollars to the cost.
What was really interesting then we overlaid that would it
be if we use the more sophisticated calculation method, Yes,
which a designer an architect can do. In this case,
our architect did, and it was really interesting that for

(01:28:16):
the two bedroom it became a negative value. It was
thirteen hundred dollars less.

Speaker 5 (01:28:21):
It's a saving.

Speaker 16 (01:28:22):
It was a saving which is quite extraordinary. But if
I go to the three bedroom example, which is one
hundred and forty square meter, so it's getting more up
to an average size.

Speaker 5 (01:28:30):
Yeah, it's more typical, more typical.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:28:33):
So the scheduling method, the blunt instrument, added two thousand,
six hundred dollars to what it would have been under
the previous H one regulation that dropped with the calculation
method to an additional two thousand, one hundred and seventy
nine Quite a disparate difference between forty to fifty K.

(01:28:56):
So what we were pleased to do with e BOSS
and your QS and design GRAPS table is actually gives
some hard some data hard to the argument.

Speaker 5 (01:29:08):
Because this is sometimes the thing that goes on in
building sites where you know, opinions, everyone's got them right,
but they're often based on speculation and heressay and kind
of a wishful thinking. Whereas what I like about so
much of the public response to this has been hang on,
I've done the numbers. Here's the numbers, right, and you've

(01:29:28):
got very specific numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:29:32):
Just one of your early comments when you're talking to
your members, where do they think the most expense is
coming from? My understanding is, for example, that if you're
going to go with joinery that's compliant with the new
H one standards, the joinery is probably going to be
more expensive. Would that be your number one item in
terms of additional cost.

Speaker 16 (01:29:53):
Yes, it would be right. So there's quite a jump
in the window requirements thermal bridging, yes, the amount of insulation,
the use of low eglass YEP for example, and that's
ro It's important to note that in all buildings, the
greatest area of thermal transfer is outside, is through the jrawnry,

(01:30:15):
through the windows, so that's the area that you've really
got to strengthen them just around. Just to make the comment,
those numbers that I've been talking about, even though we
use insulation, we're talking about a package. We're talking about
their jownery and windows in there as well. Yes. A
point that I certainly made during this conversation two months

(01:30:38):
or so ago, when this is quite topical, is that
the H one regulations, when they change them, drove demand
for increased specification in window drawnery glazing. The manufacturing sector
responded by gearing up to be able to provide that.

(01:31:01):
So new plant and machinery absolutely, and some of them
have spend millions and not tens of millions. It's an
additional capacity be able to store it low eglass has
a shelf life right what we're in danger of hair
which a number of us made the point of at
the time in the media. If you withdraw the regulation,

(01:31:23):
you take away the demand. What signal are you sending
to business end z that you're going to reverse a
regulation and reduce take away a demand. And we know
the demand will will be taken away because in April
twenty twenty three, the month before that when regulation came

(01:31:44):
intoffect in May twenty twenty three, there was a peak
in residential building sense people exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:31:55):
Absolutely. I guess it's more of a political question now
is where do you think the Minister and mb you know,
are going to go Given that they've said they want
to make some changes. Are they going to make changes?
Do you think they will actually go ahead and wind
back each one?

Speaker 16 (01:32:12):
I give the Minister his jues. He has instructed his
officials to get some QS pricing of their own. Yes,
he is listening. I'm aware that he has been out
to visit one of the jowry manufacturers that have geared
up significantly and he's seen firsthand. He's gone out there

(01:32:34):
and listen and talk to industry and starting to get
the data. My view is a very is a practical man.
He will listen, and I think he's got an opportunity
to say I've listened to the industry, I've seen the data,
and I'll make my decision on that basis.

Speaker 5 (01:32:50):
So here's my pick. I think, and for very good reason,
the schedule method might just be binned, right, And that
the challenge for government is that we still have a
perception that, you know, building is simple, and in a
sense it is, and then at the same time it's
incredibly complex, right, And so there is an inherent appeal

(01:33:14):
to the idea that you can get a book three
six o four, you can go through, look at the
different tables and build a house, and that the calculation
method seems like a dark art, that no, it's indecipherable
to most human beings and so on. Whereas I think
the schedule method and the fact that they went and

(01:33:35):
said it's R six point six in every single ceiling
right across the country Kai Tiet in Vicago, that was nonsensical, right,
And I don't know the thinking behind putting our six
point six in when all of the evidence would say,
in fact, for many areas it has little to no
benefit to go that high, but it's there, and so
it freaked everybody out. Trust manufacturers started doing weird stuff

(01:33:57):
with big heel trusses and so on. You know, I
just wonder whether the schedule method will eventually be sort
of sidelined and we move everyone to the calculation method.
And again, it's fascinating to see that the calculation method
was very expensive for a long time and indecipherable right
and accessible. I was with a guy the other day.
He's offering calculation method for a modest house for about

(01:34:18):
six to seven hundred dollars. Now, why wouldn't you have
a more nuanced approach to designing your house for energy
efficiency and that upfront cost, Well, you've quoted the figures there.
Schedule method might be eleven thousand dollars. If you did
the calculation method, you're saving twelve hundred bucks. Why don't
we just get better at building?

Speaker 16 (01:34:37):
And think, we've only a little over a year into this.
So this is one of those things that it's working
our way through and it is becoming really apparent that
there was a lot of benefits to the homeowner who's
paying the bill to use the calculation method. And if
it costs a little bit extra, and sometimes it doesn't
because you're using the designer. The architect is designing a

(01:34:59):
home to be able to do that for you. But
even it is like you're citing a modest amount to
get the work done and the payback on the capitol
up front. Yeah, it's so great. Why wouldn't I do it?

Speaker 5 (01:35:11):
And you know, from your perspective and working with your members,
do you think that the consumer, the people that your
members are building for, the people that I used to
build for, are starting to go, Actually, we're going to
really appreciate living in a warm, dry, comfortable house with
modern standards. Do you think that the consumer appreciation has shifted?

Speaker 16 (01:35:29):
I think there's an expectation now from the homeowner right
that they are going to get into a warm, dry
home and that's what they're after. They're very concerned about
their power bills going forward, and so a good insulated
home that meets the H one specification and beyond is
going to provide those savings going forward. That is starting

(01:35:53):
to really resonate with homeowners. So there's that aspect of
it that is really sort of playing out. There's also
their aspect, particularly as we younger people come into the
home house market, sustainability in our carbon footprints are a really
big driver for them. They are asking for these things. Yes,

(01:36:14):
if I go back and get back in time when
I had an architectural practice and I was a co
director of one I'm not an architect, but I was
a co director of one of they had four architects
and a team of a team. There was always the
driver about we wanted sort of a sustainable home. Yes,
And the cost of those generally back in those days became,
oh goodness, that is going to be expensive. Perhaps I

(01:36:35):
don't need it so much. But now that we've got
a regulation driving it, and we've also undertaken this credit
a data set that suggests using certain methods, it's actually
not a scary number. It's becoming more palatable, and there's
a payback period, and the payback period isn't ten years
or so like it was previously. Right, it's quite modest.

Speaker 5 (01:36:58):
The final question for you, and it's kind of a
snapshot of where you sense your members are at right.
This is the builders that are on site, right. And
my a criticism that I would have of myself and
of the industry is typically we're not ones to rush
to embrace change. And if you sit around at Smoko
on any building site, there'll be someone who's got gray

(01:37:19):
hair like me sitting in the corner going, well, we
never used to do it like that in my day,
and I don't understand all the changes. Blah blah blah
blah blah. Do you get a sense that your members
and maybe younger people in the trades now are embracing change.
They understand that what we've done hasn't been that great
and we need to build better.

Speaker 16 (01:37:40):
There was a very good report done by the Boston
Consulting right now about twenty sixteen, and it was all
about globally, this is not one this is an international issue.
They talked about they bundle like construction and engineering together
that they the lamentable progress in the last fifty years

(01:38:04):
on how we build were there be a house or
a commercial building, and comparing that rate of change which
has been negligible to say, aeronautics, car industry, film industry, sure,
many others, and so really what needs to be done
around that? But you're quite right, you know that's your

(01:38:27):
typical builder on the building site of our sort of
age is not firmly embracing change, but like it or not,
it's coming. And some of those young builders. We did
a twenty fifth year videos. We're ten twenty five established
in nineteen ninety eight, so we met big yellow that
and it's worth having a bit of look at it

(01:38:47):
on our website. And some of those young builders were
there excited by change. And I've often talked about what's
coming down the tracks with robotics and three three D printing,
what's coming down the tracks with modular housing and syst
wonderful thing has been done around the world. They're not

(01:39:09):
quite lapping on our shores yet, but they will need
to be embraced. Where I do absolutely agree with the minister.
As a country, we're too expensive to building and that
is throttling demand for new builds where there be houses
of buildings. We need to be addressing that. So and

(01:39:29):
so what I've often been talking about previously that construction
is going to be a high tech industry of the future.
Now that sounds like that makes me wow, what's this
guy been? You know, has been smoking something out there
in Graham Street before he came in here. But that's
where we're heading at.

Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
Yeah, it's and it is. It will be technology driven.
I think the ability to you know, work digitally and
all of those sorts of things you know is going
to be a really important skill set for our young
people coming through the construction sector. Malcolm, thank you very
much much for your time today. I really appreciate the insights.

(01:40:09):
I think the work that you've done, that CBA, CBNZ
have done is really really important in terms of providing
the data. So good on you forgetting the numbers and
putting it out there. Really appreciate your.

Speaker 16 (01:40:20):
Time, pleasure being on your show. Pete.

Speaker 5 (01:40:27):
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Speaker 1 (01:41:22):
With still Sharp. Don't miss their biggest spring sale ever.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Well, a very good morning, climb past, A very good
morning to you, Peter Wolf.

Speaker 5 (01:41:32):
Now tell me about Pookaha.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
Oh actually, they all send me, send you their favorite,
their famous little greetings from yeah, well you know what
I mean from the Waii Rapper. It was unbelievable. We
had a great time and it was a fabulous day yesterday.
Lots of people, lots of walks, lots of talks, lots
of strange stuff. It was great.

Speaker 5 (01:41:55):
It was fantastic. It's a gem that place.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
It is a gem that place. And I was the
only one that was staying there for two nights, which
on the lodge and the lot. Yeah, oh yeah, no,
it's my room. Don't you start that. It's my room.
So we had Kaka there and I saw I was
there on the first night, they were about twenty five
thirty pouririmos landing literally outside my door alive.

Speaker 5 (01:42:20):
Yeah, how fabulous, huge things, How cool? How cool?

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
And the ruru We're looking at it and say I'll
have one of those? Got it?

Speaker 6 (01:42:29):
Really?

Speaker 5 (01:42:29):
Because the rua are missing at the moment, aren't they?

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
Yeah they are absolutely. Yeah, it was hilarious to see
all that happened. I just up to be quels. I
haven't that much sleep.

Speaker 5 (01:42:39):
Yeah, fair enough, fair enough, Hey, and we can do
a little giveaway because it feels like the garden well
certainly the weeds are coming up along with everything else.
So if you're going to get stuck under those, it's
the old Clarks cultivator.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
There you go. We've done this before. And Chris and
Bobby said, look, give them one away today and also
make sure that when they when they hear this on
the radio, for instance, and I'll have to find theditos
because of course I'm totally unprepared. It just came out
late last night in gratitude. If you if you want

(01:43:11):
to buy one, we are doing it at a really
special price for Christmas right now, and you'll have to
mention within I think the next week that you heard
this on the radio, and you'll get it for quite
a bit cheaper. And you get them basically from Clark Cultivator.
You can find those online easy. But one of those
we're going to give away today.

Speaker 5 (01:43:30):
And it's Clark c l A r K Clark Cultivator.
You just go Clark Cultivator dot co dot is it
and away we go, brilliant and you will give one away. Yeah,
as they are tremendously useful.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Oh right, brilliant.

Speaker 5 (01:43:43):
Let's get into it now. He wants to kill moths.
I don't think we'll take this call.

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
Yeah we do?

Speaker 5 (01:43:48):
Oh okay, all right, go Roger.

Speaker 11 (01:43:50):
Hello, good morning, good morning. I was yesterday afternoon and
you have a spray there that's got kill moths and
also it kills bora. Now I'm interested for killing borer.
Now why is sellar? The floor is a eighteen hundred

(01:44:14):
square feet old house and it's full of borer and
the dust drops down to the motor, onto my cellar
and the things. And if I get some of that
and spread, will it kill the borer?

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
Well? Look it's it's so it comes. Actually the borer
is above you in the ceiling you said, right, yes,
can you see the little holes in which the from
which the borers emerge?

Speaker 11 (01:44:39):
Yes, well okay, yes, there will no This.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
Is just for Pete's Pete's edification. Pete. These are the
house borer, the European housebory we're talking about. Yes, you
know what I mean, the ones that actually it came
here of course with settlers in the in the suitcases
in there that wood wouldn't whatever cases in which they
migrated to New Zealand in the eighteen hundreds. So this
is what it is. And here comes to time you are.

(01:45:03):
This is why I made that yesterday on the Jackdame Show.
Quite a thing. This is the time when they are
starting to think about coming out, finding a mate and
then laying eggs in old little borer holes or on
the wood itself from which they came. And what you
do now is you get that spray that I was

(01:45:23):
talking about. You spray it on that surface from which
they emerge. If they are in contact with that surface
for more than say ten seconds, there ain't no mating.

Speaker 11 (01:45:34):
Ah, yes, got it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:36):
Okay. So what the stuff that you use is the
residual aircraft spray that you can get from a company
called safe Works. One word safe works ends with an
X safes and they have company. They have shops in Auckland, Wellington,
christ Church probably some other places by now find them

(01:45:59):
online and give them a call and work it out.
You'll find that you can get a couple of those
cans and spray the literally, say about half a meter away,
and you literally treat the surface with that spray. That
that aerosol spray.

Speaker 11 (01:46:14):
What was the name of that spray. That's what I
forgot it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
Well, the residual aircraft spray.

Speaker 11 (01:46:23):
Yeah, residual aircraft spray from safe Work.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
Safe Works. Yes, if you explain that we had this conversation,
most of the staff at Safeworks know who I am
because we I worked on making that stuff and putting
it on well and developing it in the nineteen eighties.
You were there time, No, I wasn't. I was in

(01:46:47):
Auckland at that time with the Ministry of Agriculture and
we were using that spray inside aircraft to stop insects
arriving in New Zealand, you know, and and we that
spray kills those insects before they even get to New Zealand.
That was That's how.

Speaker 11 (01:47:03):
Good it is yes, So that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
Great safe works with the you find it your.

Speaker 11 (01:47:09):
Safe work with the next that I'm listening to you
for many years, years ago, I used to hear on
the radio somewhere and I was under easy long ago.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
Yeah, that was syndicated, that old radio. Like this radio
show goes all over the.

Speaker 5 (01:47:27):
Orders of the beauty of radio. You can be down
nowadays in the world. I appreciate the call. Roger, you
have a great day, Tanya, A very good morning.

Speaker 7 (01:47:38):
Oh goody, that's me morning. Kind What sort of critter
has built a black pouch underneath the ease of my house?
He must have it, she must have it at night
because I'm confined to a chair and suddenly it just appeared.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
What did you call it a black couch?

Speaker 7 (01:48:06):
I'm pouch, you know, a bag, pouch or pouch?

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
Okay, yeah? And what color is it? It's black?

Speaker 12 (01:48:13):
What's black?

Speaker 7 (01:48:15):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
Oh? Black is not a common thing in the natural
world of insects. You know, how big is it.

Speaker 7 (01:48:25):
About the size of a man's first what? Yes, Look,
I live in a very rare I have spiders. British
spiders have sawns on their backs. I'm in a very
I've created. Uh, I've created a very natural garden here,

(01:48:49):
like a cottage garden, lots of trees and bush and flowers,
full of bees and butterflies and bees. I've got them all.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
Okay. Now, if you've got a pouch that has grown,
you know, to that size, that might be the beginning
of a wasp nest. Could that be?

Speaker 4 (01:49:08):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:49:09):
No, do you know?

Speaker 7 (01:49:10):
I wondered, Yeah, that one, because it's broken. It's broken.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
Now, has it got these little hexagonal cells in it?

Speaker 7 (01:49:23):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:49:25):
No, that in that case, I may be totally wrong.

Speaker 7 (01:49:30):
From here, it looks like like set material. It looks
quite soft.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
No, really, no, I can't. I cannot picture it in
my brain. I cannot identify it without you know, seeing
it in my brain. I do.

Speaker 7 (01:49:46):
I am cluse. I have a cowry tree on the property.
That's crazy. And I wondered if if that has any
influence on us.

Speaker 2 (01:49:55):
Oh, maybe it does, but I don't know. I cannot
tell what it is. But just simply by listening to
this description, I'm afraid. I'm sorry. I can't help you
with that, but I can help you with one thing.
If you think that spiders with little spikes on their
back are strange, no, they're not, because they're quite often
called two spine spiders and they look like that.

Speaker 7 (01:50:16):
Yes, oh right, oh well, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
There you go. Hey, thank you, thank you for your call.
I'm sorry I can't help you with the other thing.

Speaker 5 (01:50:29):
All us you take care and Margaret, good morning to you.

Speaker 15 (01:50:33):
Good morning. Rude my, I think they're asiatically so I've
got several, but just one of them has got it
looks like sunburn on the leaves, but the other seven
got any of that. So if they're all going.

Speaker 2 (01:50:48):
Pround, they're all going off one plant only.

Speaker 15 (01:50:51):
Though, just on one plant.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
Anybody sprayed anything in the neighborhood, No, you haven't, so
that's weird. Oh gosh, what could that be? I could
Oh so they're slowly changing color and becoming brown. Do
they then start to become brittle and die off?

Speaker 15 (01:51:13):
Well they are, yes, yeah, okay half of the leaf.

Speaker 2 (01:51:18):
That could well be then a fungal disease that actually
slowly taking them off.

Speaker 15 (01:51:23):
Well, why there's just one plant, god, and not the others.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
That one drew the luckies, the lucky the lucky straw. No,
I mean that happens sometimes that you get one plant.

Speaker 15 (01:51:35):
And they all been watered together. It's not like it's
too wet or too dry.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
No, and it could and you know what, it also
could be that there's something in the soil that started
to eat the bulbs or the little rootlets of the bulbs,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 14 (01:51:48):
And if that only that one, very healthy?

Speaker 2 (01:51:52):
Yeah, I know, well that's what happens sometimes, might be
something in the ground.

Speaker 15 (01:51:56):
Go on, And also what is your opinion of worm
we for a manure?

Speaker 2 (01:52:02):
Not too bad at all? Good, brilliant? Why not that
that's how nature fertilizes itself with that sort of stuff.
Wos do nothing but of course yeah, they make They
decay all sorts of bits and pieces and transport them
through the ground to put that fertilizer literally what it

(01:52:23):
is all over the place in the forest or in
your garden. So weren't we as such is a pretty
useful material.

Speaker 15 (01:52:30):
Oh that's good because I have been using it. But
I just wondered how good it was.

Speaker 2 (01:52:35):
It is good. It's better than you're wee, is it?

Speaker 11 (01:52:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 15 (01:52:40):
Well I heard that's quite good for the garden too.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
I'm not going to go there, darling.

Speaker 10 (01:52:46):
No, okay, rude, thank you?

Speaker 5 (01:52:51):
Christ Well, intervene now before we hit down the path
that we just can't come back from. Uh, we're going
to take a short break also after the break I'll
tell you last week on the show, we ran a
little competition for some legos, some Team New Zealand Lego.
I've got the winners. I'll tell you who are after
the break back, but keen to get amongst it. I
tell you what last week, you know with the America's

(01:53:13):
Cup Razine, who are actually heavily involved with the America's
Cup because they make the paint that goes on the boat.
Through Razine construction, we had three Lego kits to give away.
We've got a lot of people entering, which was awesome.
So Uppologna and Dunedin, Claire in At and karl In
Tyrau are going to get these amazing Lego kits. I

(01:53:36):
think there's a few pieces and they're pretty awesome. Anyway,
they're on their way to you, so that's fantastic. And
someone today is going to go home well is going
to get a Clark Cultivator as well, which is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:53:46):
We're getting to send him to you. Just talking about Razine.
Another little heads up the Kiwi Art Trail that's going
on in to Adimo, which is actually quite lovely to see.
It's also sponsored partly bow Razine.

Speaker 5 (01:53:58):
Didn't know that interesting? What's the art trail about? And
you've got a walk?

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
No imagine having a kiwi? Are big kiwi kind of
made you know as such? And then artists paint them
are brilliant and they have these weird Well go online,
look at the kipia.

Speaker 5 (01:54:16):
I'm in tar On the next in January for a wedding.
Will they still be around?

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
No, seventy of November okay, And guess where I'm going
to be between now and the seventieth of November. You go. Actually,
that's another thing. They have Plenty Arts and garden festival.
If you I'm there for the whole week, go and
I'll meet you there and it'll be a hell of
a lot of fun. Both plenty arts a garden festival.

Speaker 5 (01:54:42):
Excellent. Hey, now I forwarded you an email from our
mystery caller last week who had the worm and the irrigation.
Oh yes, so the worm is like a white worm
and when it was in the palm of his hand,
I estimated to be about forty millimeters long. Cheapest I know.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
Oh whit Oh, that's that's a lot. That's quite. That's quite,
and then and then as hell of course, well yeah
gotta be.

Speaker 5 (01:55:10):
Yeah, but not so much to be fair. I mean,
it's you got the photo, Yeah, I sent it to you.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
Ok. Oh yeah, there's me. That's me being an aeroplane.

Speaker 5 (01:55:21):
I'm just comparing if he's got some oflar palm markings
for me. I reckon it is about without a word
of a light, it'll be thirty five to forty millimeters long.
I'm probably about two millimeters in diameter. And it's why
I'll have to look at that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:35):
I'm going to make a note to self next week
of course, Central Otagos.

Speaker 5 (01:55:39):
You know, we get to the bottom of this mystery
for Dennis right right now, though, Mary, go talk to us.
Good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 7 (01:55:47):
I'm just three about the aircraft spray repels.

Speaker 2 (01:55:53):
Yeah, yeah, there's never.

Speaker 7 (01:55:54):
No eight hundred numbers that we can get because I
can't get hold of this, and I think.

Speaker 5 (01:55:59):
It's pretty good. I don't know that repels aircraft.

Speaker 2 (01:56:02):
No, it doesn't repel. Talking about I think I think
they may because it's a safety company, safe works, they
might not be opening in there on the Sunday. I'm
not even sure if they open on the Saturday, but
they open any other day after that that Christ are
they Oh, I'll tell you they're on Hoswell Junction Road.

(01:56:23):
There you go. Boom okay, thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (01:56:28):
To talk about you, Tanya, Good morning to you.

Speaker 7 (01:56:32):
Yes, good morning. So rude, I've got a bit of
a scary problem where I've got mulbrowed freeze, a black
one and a white variety planted about ten years ago.
And yes they meta, but I do keep them trimmed
a little bit, but they're still quite high. And like

(01:56:53):
about last year, I saw a massive route climbing about
four meters away from the tree into a back garden,
a raised garden, and I cut that with my chain,
sort of thinking kroky, that was voracious. And then in
the front garden, Yesterda replaced three rose gardens and dug

(01:57:16):
the soil out because you know, when you're replacing the roses,
you've got to put change the soil. Blah blah blah.
And what did I find? What did I find in
the front garden like it had gone under the house
or I don't know, frightening and voracious. What the hell
do I have to cut those trees down.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
Whoa, whoa. How do you know it was the roots
of that Melbury tree.

Speaker 7 (01:57:38):
I recognized them from when I cut the root with
my chainsaw in the back garden. They're sort of like
It's an orange color with a very woody center. And
it was frightening to find that it had come that far.
And I'm thinking Jesus, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I find it extraordinary, by the way,
And to be quite honest, I'm growing a melberry as well.
You know why I grow in Melbury?

Speaker 7 (01:58:06):
The toes go meant your whole trees full of toys?

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
Yeah, no, I want I grow Melbury because I want
to grow what do you call these things? It doesn't
matter forgotten some caterpillars. What do you call these? Silkwormsh what?
I want to grow silk worms on the leaves of Melbury.
That's the story. Okay, don't worry, but I did. Mine
is not that bit misbehaving. It actually stays in one

(01:58:31):
place and it grows quite nicely. I haven't heard of
it going that quick, I know, I know, but I
haven't heard of going that far.

Speaker 7 (01:58:38):
That would be I bought them as large trees. That
mind you. I bought them as large trees, I got
them installed as large trees, and then it's been them
for about ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:58:48):
No, to be quite honest, I did not know that.
But what you then need to start doing is actually
get some dig around the Melbury trees and make sure
that you start intercepting those roots before they go that far.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 7 (01:59:02):
It's just incredible. And also there was a that I
came across which I didn't even know I had. When
I was I dug right down to remove all of
the soil and that rose gardens, and I came across
a drain and I saw the roots even in that
way down. Unbelievable. You wouldn't even be able to get

(01:59:25):
around that deep and that and that far. Seriously but spooky,
I'm thinking, do I need to cut those trees down?
I love those trees.

Speaker 2 (01:59:35):
But yeah, another little question, do you have boo to
car Anyarby?

Speaker 11 (01:59:42):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
Okay, I know Peter and Peter and I know that
we can do this sort of nonsense.

Speaker 7 (01:59:49):
I know that too.

Speaker 4 (01:59:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
No, No, but I hadn't heard of I had not.
I have never heard that of Melbourny trees.

Speaker 5 (01:59:56):
I wouldn't blame the tree though it's problem with the drain.
It's not the tree. The trees still not trees.

Speaker 12 (02:00:00):
Do there?

Speaker 2 (02:00:01):
You go? Good boy back in the mo.

Speaker 5 (02:00:07):
Oh, what a busy old morning road.

Speaker 2 (02:00:09):
We've been fairly flat out, haven't we. But it's been good.
So we've got the little worm to check out. But anyway,
and I'll see if I can for next week. I'm
going to be in Central Otagos. You have to do
it probably from from.

Speaker 5 (02:00:24):
From we'll figure it out on the day, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
Other than that, might be being fine and can't cultivate it.
By the way, I think Margaret is the person. She
was wonderful with her lily. I love that one, Lily.
This is very good.

Speaker 5 (02:00:37):
I might get into the garden today as well.

Speaker 2 (02:00:39):
Rud you get on with it.

Speaker 5 (02:00:41):
Again next week. Take care all of this. Hey, thanks
very much for your company this morning, folks. Next week
on the show, Ben Johnson talking about the Fencing Act.
He is a lawyer. He'll be with me next Sunday.
Look forward to hearing from me For.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
More from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp. Listen live
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