Acting Police Commissioner Martin Dole says tactical measures and enhanced capabilities are being considered to give officers the tools they need to deal with offenders in stolen cars targeting police and their vehicles

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Please to say. Joining me in the studio is the
Acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good morning to you.
Good morning, Katie, Thanks so much for your time this
morning now, Acting Commissioner. First off, how are things going
acting in the role? Do you feel as though the
force is running quite smoothly since stepping in?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, Katie, We've got probably the best police force in Australia.
So the guys and girls that are out there on
the front line delivering to the public every day are
committed to doing their job to serve and protect the public.
And I've got the fortunate job of currently being the
Acting Commissioner and leading that incredible response for the people
that are dedicated to protecting the territory.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know. Obviously last month the Northern Territory Government announced
an independent inquiry into recent senior police recruitments. That inquiry
is being facilitated through the Office of the Commissioner for
Public Employment and lead by the Honorable Acting Justice Alan
blow Ao. Do you feel as though this is a
good move in terms of providing certainty to the.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Full Yeah, well, Katie, the public need to have confidence
in their police force. They need to have confidence in
the leadership of their police force, and the police force
needs to have confidence in their leadership as well. So
we welcome the inquiry. We're participating fully and we've had
correspondence already with Acting Justice blow and our books are open.
He can come in and review all of the circumstances

(01:20):
around those recruitments. There's twenty eight senior positions in the
police force that are affected by this review, but everyone's
just getting on with business and turning up to work.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Are you concerned that there could be anybody in roles
that aren't there based on merit.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
No, I'm not concerned about that at all, Katie.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
So despite you know, despite what has happened, and despite
the former Commissioner Michael Murphy standing down, you don't feel
as though it's an issue.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I don't feel it's an issue. The government has announced
the review, there's some independence in that review and I
hope that that's completed and the public can continue to
have faith in the leadership and the Northern Territory Police
Force as a whole.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
What impact do you think that this has all had
on the Northern Territory Police Force. I mean in terms
of the rank and file, those out there doing their
job every day, and also those more senior police officers,
even yourself. I mean, has it had the impact that
maybe outsiders looking in think that it has or is
it business as usual for you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Look, there's no doubt that it obviously has some impact, Katie,
But we've had a tumultuous decade in policing and leadership
in policing in the Norn Territory, and what I can
say is the resolve does not change. Our people are
out there protecting the public. They're turning up to work
every day, they're locking up offenders, they're doing all of
their operations, and it hasn't affected it hasn't affected the

(02:41):
service delivery of the Norn Territory Police Force. So I
want to assure the community we're still out there serving
and protecting as we should be doing.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Acting Commissioner, it's been a tumultuous time, as you touched on,
I mean over the last ten years, but also for
our police commissioners. Are you going to put your hand
up to be the full time commissioner, Katie?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Look, that's not something that I'm considering at the moment.
There's a lot going on at the moment. Obviously there's
the review. I don't know when that recruitment process will
begin for the Commissioner. So at the moment that's not
my focus. It's not something I'm thinking about working towards.
I'm just doing the job at the moment as the
acting Commissioner, making sure that our troops out there get
everything that they need and that they feel supported while

(03:23):
they're doing the job.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
All right, I do want to talk about that because
there's been some you know, there has been a lot
going on and a lot of operational issues I think
experiencing well at that operational level, I should say, there
does seem to be a high level of youth offending
at the moment, really in some cases some incredibly violent incidents.

(03:45):
Now I'm conscious not to go into specifics, but one
of the incidents which horrified the Northern Territory community was
the alleged time invasion and assault of Trevor in Palmerston,
now Acting Commissioner. This was an readably violent incident. Do
you believe that we are seeing an increased level of

(04:06):
violent youth offending?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
I don't think well as a whole Katie, yes, probably yes,
And I agree with that positions, but I'd also agree
that that position is Australia wide. Everyone is suffering the
effects of youth crime, disengagement, disrespect for authority, whether that
be the police or school. So this is a problem

(04:28):
across all of the jurisdictions, and we're no different in
the Northern Territory. It impacts more here because we're such
a small jurisdiction. These stories are picked up as they
should be in the public interest, and the public have
a strong interest in what's going on in the territory,
so that in everyone's face, we're dealing with this problem
every day. Has there been a spike in that youth offending.

(04:50):
I don't think so. I think it's consistently high as
it has been. But I suppose what concerns me and
what I've seen currently is some of the youth offenders
that we're seeing coming through that are committed these offenses
are youth that we haven't seen before. So it's not
all repeat offenders. It's not a continual cycle of people
in and out and no consequences we see. We're continuing

(05:10):
to see fresh offenders coming through that haven't got significant
criminal histories or we haven't seen them engaging in this
type of conduct before. And that's concerning.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, that is concerning in the sense that then you've
got these you know, young kids coming up committing really
violent offenses in some cases. But then we also see
all too often that some of these young people, and
I will say some and I'm not going into any specifics,
but some of these cases that you also see, you've
got young people that are on bail while they're committing

(05:39):
these terrible offenses.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, that is the case in some circumstances, Katie. But
obviously we've had a lot of strategies in the recent
months that we've tried to take those people out of circulation.
So with the strength and bail laws, we've got more
powers now to take those offenders into custody and keep
them in custody. So we've said the Fugitive Strikeforce, and
they've had incredible success since they were set up at

(06:03):
the Big in December last year, and they've been used
across the territory, so from Darwin to Alae Springs and
remotely as well. So and that's I suppose that's evidence
by the increase in numbers we see across the correctional
facilities across the Northern Territory as well, were at record
numbers in all of those facilities.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Now, I know that the government's flag making some changes
though to the Youth Justice Act youths, you know, some
of those youths that are repeatedly getting bail. I mean,
are there changes that the police would like to see?
I know that, you know, I know it's always a
tricky line for the Northern Territory Police to be talking
about legislative changes. But are there changes that the police
do want to see?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, there is, Katie, and I probably can't go into
the specifics of that because there's still a working group
in relation to that legislation, but it has been flagged
by the government that will come up in one of
the next sittings, is the changes to the Youth Justice Act.
That review is currently underway and we're on that working group,
and the information that's being fit into that working group
is coming from the grassroots troops that are dealing with

(06:59):
this legislation every day and dealing with these offenders. So
it's about making sure that their job is more efficient
and that they've got the tools they've got to be
able to do their job and protect the public, all right.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So we'll wait and see exactly what comes out in
that space. I want to take a I want to
have a bit of a discussion about some of the
terrible offending we've actually seen towards the Northern Territory Police
as well, Like we've seen in recent weeks, recent months,
you know, cars being driven, stolen cars being driven at
Northern Territory Police, specifically in Alice Springs. As I understand

(07:31):
that there's been a couple of incidents. We had spoken
to the Northern Territory Police Association president about this and
he'd flagged the potential need for some changes when it
comes to the ways in which their operational you know,
like our officers are dealing with these stolen vehicles that
are driving at them, or that are driving around town

(07:51):
and putting other people at risk. Is that something that
you're looking at from an operational.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Perspective, Yeah, it is, Katie, and that's being looked at.
And I've had these conversations with Nathan. I do support
this stand. We're not at odds to this. Our troops
deserve everything that they've got in their toolkit and everything
that they can get and that we can give them
to make sure that their jobs safe and efficient. So
we are looking at further measures and policies to see
what we can do to give them some more tools

(08:18):
to help resolve some of these issues with stolen cars
and make sure that they're safe. But we also need
to consider public safety as well and safety of the offenders.
So there's a lot to consider in that policy position.
It's not as simple as clicking our fingers and drawing
something up that we can introduce overnight. There's a fair
bit to it that we have to consider, but that's
in process, and there's incredible work being done by the

(08:38):
Commander Southern in that space, and there's some changes that
he's proposed that we're looking at pushing.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Through what might some of those changes entail.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
So I probably can't go into too much detail on
it until we signed it up. But it's about giving
our troops better options to resolve some of these incidents
involving stolen motor cars. So at the moment, we've got
several tactical options available to us, but it's increasing those
tactical options and giving them more ability to perform tasks
to safely prevent and stop these vehicles from continuing to offend,

(09:05):
so not just sort.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Of putting those tired deflation devices out.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Potentially that capability in certain things like that. So maybe
some other options of just the traditional tied deflation devices.
We've got looking at what's best practice across Australia and
what's some other options and more enhanced tired deflation devices
those type of things, and more policy in regards to
what we can do with motor vehicles in regards to

(09:30):
using our motor vehicles to stop other motive Yeah. Right,
So that's some of the stuff we need to look at,
but it's careful consideration that's also needed in regards to
those policies.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, so some of those defensive sort of actions that
you might be able to use, I suppose with the
police vehicle if there is a stolen vehicle without putting
officers or those you know, those alleged offenders at any kind.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Of risk and the public as well, Cadie. So the
consideration is always officer safety out safety of the public,
and then it's safety in safely apprehending the people that
are committing that crime. And list might say, but they're criminals,
what do we care about their safety?

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Will we have to well, you absolutely have to.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
We can't go put a car through a fence and
killing an innocent member of the public or putting the
police at further risk either. So yeah, there's a lot
of factors to consider, and that's what our people deal
with daily while they're dealing with this incidents and their
thought process while they're going through trying to resolve this situation. Yeah,
that's occurring daily across the North time.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
It must be hard though, right, Like as a police
officer having to think of all those different scenarios when
you're literally, you know, dealing with offenders. You can see
them right in front of you and you're going, I
know that I can apprehend that person, but all these
other scenarios are running through your brain.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, And that's what our troops face every day. And
can I just shout out? And so they do an
incredible job. So they're twenty four hour presents out there
dealing with these incidents every day and doing an incredible job.
And I just thank the police force for the work
that they're doing at the moment across the community.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, Alice Springs, I know that there's been a number
of as we spoke about, there's been a cars stolen.
But we've also seen a terrible incident, a horrific sit
situation where a tourist was assaulted last week unprovoked. I mean,
like what work it's I think it's a really difficult situation, right,
because how do you prevent an individual making a decision

(11:14):
allegedly to go and assault an innocent person. You know,
a police cannot be on every footpath stopping every single
person or trying to stop every single person. But how
are we in a situation where stuff like this continues
to happen?

Speaker 2 (11:28):
And that's the hard question, Katie, And I think I
said that this morning, is that you're not going to
stop bad people doing bad stuff. You're always going to
have those that want to break the law or those
that have a blatant disregard from the law that go
out and commit crimes. But what I can assure the
public is we're doing everything we can when that occurs
to make sure we identify that offender and put them
out of circulation so they can't commit that again. But

(11:51):
that's not the sole and only answer. So whilst there's
strong enforcement action required, and that is happening, and that
will continue to happen, across the territory. There's also the
changes that are required for the drivers of that crime,
and that's what the cross government work that's occurring in
the background is happening. We're not just doing the drivers
of crime and stopping enforcement. We're having strong enforcement, but

(12:12):
we're trying to address the causes of that crime as well,
and we're working with the other agencies to try and
in that preventative space a bit more.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
All Right, Another incident that's been raised with us by listeners. Well,
first off, there's one that Heidi Blacker has posted about
actually on social media. It's been sent to me by
a couple of listeners. Her husband was attacked by youth
in the CBD in Alice Springs after attempting to help
a business with a youth attempting to steal products. He

(12:38):
was hit in the head with a scooter, severing an
artery and almost bled out. Now he's been out of
hospital as I understand it, for two weeks. She says
that she's not being contacted by the police for an update.
There's been no call returned to her to make a statement.
Are you aware of this situation and how is that possible? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
O Katie. I am aware of that situation. Absolutely not
acceptable that somebody that can come to the aid of
a business is issaulted for trying to come to that aid. Look,
I'm aware of that situation. I know that our cruise
and Olie Springs are working on that. I am aware
that they've taken a statement off the victim in relation
to that, and they've made some contact with Miss Blacker

(13:21):
in relation to that. Now I can go away after
this session and make some more inquiries in relation to
that if she doesn't think that that has been acceptable.
But I do know that our troops and Olie Springs
are working on that matter.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
It's just, I mean, it's a terrible situation when you
try to help, you know, like when you're trying to
help in a you know, with a crime being committed,
or you're trying to stop a youth in that scenario,
and then to end up that seriously injured. I think
it just goes to the heart of the concerns that
a lot of Territorians have got at the moment when

(13:54):
it comes to youth's offending. You know. Then we've got
this vision that came out last week where a police
car is being chased by a stolen vehicle in Plumper
by what appears to be a group of youths. It's,
you know, as you touched on earlier, it sort of
goes to the heart of those concerns people have got
where we seem to have some young people and all

(14:17):
ages in the community who've got no respect for the law,
no real respect for anybody, to be blunt about it,
and I question whether you've got much respect for yourself
either when you're prepared to do something like that to
another individual.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
No, I agree with you, Katie. There's some certainly some
personal responsibility that has to come into this, and there's
some parental responsibility that has to come into this, and
there's that community responsibility as well. And shout out to
mister Black Ryanala Springs that did come to the assistance
of that business and try and stop some of that behavior.
But you know, there's a social part to this as well,

(14:51):
and that bad behavior needs to be called out, but
it needs to be recognized by the people that are
doing it. And saying is society going to accept this, Well,
no they're not. And my message is on territory police
aren't going to accept it. And if you do engage
in that criminal behavior, then we're coming for you and
we'll make sure that you suffer the consequences of your behavior.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
In terms of that incident in Palumpa with the police
being chased by that stolen car, where are things at
with that?

Speaker 2 (15:17):
So we've recovered that stylein motor vehicle and there's two
adult defenders that have been arrested in relation to that.
But can I just throw some caution to Katie. So
a lot of the stuff that circulates on social media
doesn't have the full story behind it, So there's small
snippets and it might seem that a vehicle's chasing the
police car. But I explained to you before, our guys
and girls that are out there trying to deal with

(15:38):
this situation are dealing with a dynamic situation where they're
going to try and apprehend a vehicle that is being
unlawfully used. It's got people in the back of it,
so they're considering not injuring the people that are in
that vehicle, and they're also trying to avoid property damage,
so they're trying to avoid smashing up that style and
car and smashing up police cars. So just because there's
a small snippet with a low speed what appears to

(16:01):
be a chase of a police vehicle doesn't mean that
that's the full story of what occurred out.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
There, So you reckon the what the police officers were
actually doing in that situation was trying to obviously apprehend
the car, but also make sure that nobody in that
vehicle got injured.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
That's right, and there's a lot more to that story
than what that small snippet circling on social media is.
That's been resolved, that vehicle's been recovered, and there's been
offenders apprehended in relation to that.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Has it I mean, have you got a real issue
though in some of those different communities. And I don't
know the situation with Palumpa, but I know certainly when
we look at the daily region some of those communities,
there has been concerns with young people, allegedly with people
that are older than them as well, committing really serious
sort of car thefts and crime, so what a lot

(16:44):
of people would consider quite serious and you know, and
not really seeing that leadership maybe from the community that
you might expect.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, and look, you're exactly right, Katie, And that's been
a problem for a while now. So we've had the
Fugitive Task Force out in the West Daily region in
the last week and they've performed a number of apprehensions
and taken out a number of those ring leaders that
continue to engage in that behavior and make sure that
they're out of circulation.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Now I want to ask you we are leading into
obviously Easter. We know we had a terrible year last
year on our roads when it comes to the death toll.
This year has been a little bit better. But what
is your message for territorians as we head into Easter?
And then I think it's three long weekends.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, that's exactly right, Katie. So we've got three long
weekends in a row, which is exciting for the public
to be able to get out and about and enjoy
the territory. But can I just tell people that you
will see an increase in our road policicing division out
and about across the territories. So that's from Darwin right
through to Catherine down to the Central Australia, and you'll
see our people doing large scale RBTs in remote locations

(17:49):
as well. So if you're entering into Listville Parker enjoying
some of the great stuff in the territory. You'll also
see a police presence on the roads, checking your speed,
making sure that you're not drinking or drug effected driving,
and making sure that your vehicles are roadworthy. So want
road users to remember the fatal five sixty lives lost
on our roads last year, which is an absolute terrible

(18:11):
indictment on drivers in the norm territory. As you said,
it's a little bit better this year, but we're currently
sitting at six lives lost on our roads this year.
We really don't want to see anymore. So just encourage
the public whilst you're out there over these long weekends
enjoying yourself and enjoying the territory, just pay attention to
the fatal five. Make sure you're not drink driving, make
sure you're not tired, were your seat belt, you're not distracted.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
And a big shout out to all the Northern Territory
police and all of our frontline workers who are going
to be working incredibly hard over the weekend while the
large majority of us are relaxing. The lie will be
I know the police won't be. Martin Dole, Acting Police Commissioner,
good to speak with you this morning. Really appreciate your time.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Thanks Katie, thank you,