The Week That Was – 8th March 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
News time for the week that was, and Happy International
Women's Day as well. Joining us in the studio this
morning for the COLP. We've got Bill Yan. Good morning
to you, Bill.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to the top end
Live exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, in person, it's good to have you in here
and well from the ABC this morning. He used to
join us as the NT news journalist, but now with
the ABC. Tom Morgan, great to have you in the studio.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm bad happy to have you.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
What a week to debut, Absolutely it is. It's going
to be a busy one and we have indeed got
from the Labor Party the Minister for Police Brent Potter.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Good morning, morning Katie, and happy International Women's Day.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thank you. Now, I tell you what, I don't think
we can start on any of the other issues this
morning until we do indeed address the situation that you
are in. Brent. I know that you apologized yesterday for
highly offensive posts that you shared on social media around
a decade ago and say that you won't be stepping
down now. You've come under fire with calls from within

(00:59):
with the outside. We've had different groups calling for you
to resign, but you are standing firm. What makes you
think you can survive at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Well, I don't think it's up to the media to
ultimately dictate whether I stand down.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
It is up to the public though, and they're utimately
holding me to account at the moment.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Just about to say it's up to the electorate to
vote me in or out in August, then they should
have that say, And ultimately it's up to the Chief
Minister and who serves in her cabinet. But like I
said yesterday, I've owned those mistakes. They were in my twenties.
People change, and the experiences that labor have given me
a term into and.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Today, look, I can't I can't pretend that I've probably
never said nor done anything stupid when I was in
my twenties. Saying racist things though, and bigoted making, you know,
sharing bigoted posts and sharing well inappropriate posts in so
many different ways. A lot would argue that if they

(01:53):
are your views, they are your views, whether you're in
your twenties or your thirties or your fifties.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
But people change. If we if they're saying that they're
the same views I have now, well that's incorrect. I've
come out pretty clearly and said that they're not, and
I'm ashamed and embarrassed of those posts. And if I
could take them back and have the learnings that I
have now and tell my twenty year old self those well,
then I wouldn't have done that. But people change. That's
the whole reason. Really, people through prison, like people changed

(02:18):
you well, then getting older, leaving the profession that I
was in at the time, going and sitting at a
table with people with very different views to me. You know,
labor is a very big tree. It has varying different
views and sometimes I don't necessarily agree with everything, and
the same with other people in my caucus team don't
always agree with my point of view on pieces. But
you have those experiences, you learn and you grow, I
mean having kids, taking on two step daughters, getting married

(02:42):
and getting older.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Ultimately, I guess the argument with people change is that
there's so many you know, there's going to be so
many different groups coming out. You're now going, well, if
people change, you know, then why are you still attacking
the CELP over things that they've done ten years ago?
You know why you were attacking and alls who've maybe
done something six months ago. There's there's all these sort

(03:04):
of ways that that argument can really be poked at.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Well. I think some of those things you raised there
are very different to what I've posted or been involved in.
I think political parties fundamentally hold a position that doesn't
necessarily change whether the people in the party are there
or not. That's why they're that they're conservative or they're
they're non conservative. That doesn't fundamentally change. That's why they're
the party. But ultimately, people individually change.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Some of your views that you have shared seen more
in line with bills, you know, or with the colps
maybe than what.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Keep coming out and.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
See. That's they're the ones that I meet, you know,
ones where you've had a crack at Dan Andrews, ones
where you've you know, there was commentary around sharing the
sharing of and Andrew bolt story that then you'd said,
I'm just going to leave this here.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
So what I would say, Katie, I've made I've never
hidden it from my constituents, so we talk. I've been
essentialist my whole life. I've never grown up in a party.
I didn't start off in young labor, a young liberal
like many politicians you see across the nation. I got
into politics later in life. Never expecting to get into politics.
Some of my views are still central, but there are
views that I hold that are left and my constituents

(04:15):
know that because we will have discussions on the doors.
That some people would call me a lefty. That's fine,
but I'm not. I'm definitely not aligning myself with the
COLP that I would say is more national nationals than
they are liberal, and I think that's the problem why
they're in the positions out.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
You say there that you've been a centrist all your life,
but some of those posts that you put out there
are quite clearly far right. You quoted a Nazi general
in one of those posts, or you really shared a
post from a Nazi general. So have you been a
centrist all your life?

Speaker 4 (04:42):
So that that particular post needs to be put in
context of the time. And your listeners aren't going to
understand this because they've not served in the military, they're
not a tank of something. But for me, that no,
I'm going to explain it because it does need to
be brought out the comment that person has made. Put
that into business context without any direction, go and find
something to fix. Yes, I understand for people looking outside
is distasteful, but it is a famous quote that many

(05:04):
militaries base themselves off of. So putting it in context,
I'm the only one and a few people in defense
will understand the context of it. I understand outside of context,
it is distasteful for many people.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
We've got to look at context here in the broader picture. Look, look, Brent,
you came out and said that, and particularly when racism
was raised in that inquest last week, straightaway out there
with the Police Minister calling for an investigation to racism
in police and then we've got the Chief minits so
saying that racism online is cowardly. And then the next

(05:36):
day here we are we're talking about you promoting racism
through Facebook, but the Chief minis are saying, well, she's
just going to support you, and you're saying that people
have taken it out of context. Look, that really does
smack up a lot of hypiocracy, because if a police
officer did the same thing, they'd be up for discipline reaction.
If anyone in a public sector I know this and

(05:58):
I've seen it, I'm in the public sector had have
done this, they would be facing discipline reaction.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
And may lose their job.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
So it's a very good point.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
So these different rules, and was there a different rule
for somebody else.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
Allegations that go to police and are subject to this
review happened ten eleven years ago. So are those officers
who are going to be subject to that review who
have allegations against them going to just say, well, I'm
a changed person now and that's o cash.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Just let me answer two pieces. So the first one
you raise there is actually incorrect.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Bill.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
I never called for the review. I supported the commissioner.
So I know the front page they said I instigated
the review. I did not that.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I think we're there. I think we're really picking up
what I want to see. Because the fact is you
do support.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
That review, and the point from you, I absolutely support
him in doing that review. And the same with all
of my stuff being there, there will be people that
will make decisions on that. The chief ministers had to
look at those posts.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Besides an internal review that buy the chief minister rather
than any sort of anything further in terms of any
kind of discipline reaction for you. So the point Bill's
making is that the police officers they don't have, you know,
they don't have that same luxury that you've got right.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Now, if their stuff was made outside of the force
when they weren't serving in a uniform, and it was
all before they ever joined. That's the point I'm making
that you can't hold someone accountable for doing something before
they went to an employment and then try and say, well,
you've done this before like that would go straight to
fair work. Like if that in many instances, if you
were to remove someone on the premise beforehand, like that
would be contestable.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
But could the defense now be well, I'm a changed person.
You know what's happened to me in the last ten years.
I've changed.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
And I think the stuff that's happened with the commissioner,
he's agnowledged that, like he's the stuff that they're talking
about happened twenty odd years ago. He's absolutely a different person.
And I've said to him before, and I made this
point in media yesterday. The discipline system within the police
that we're trying to change is not one that is
punitive and removes people, but one way we acknowledge our
mistakes like I did yesterday, and we offer people the
opportunity to be to retraining, change and then continue to serve.

(07:51):
Because if we are going to go straight to a
punitive measure within the police force. We'll see what happened
during the COVID period. People were terminated I think unfairly
in many, you know, and they weren't given the opportunity
to change, and we lose numbers. So I get people's point.
I've gone out there in front of the cameras and
answered this answer to the territoriins I will answer it
to my electorate. I'm not proud of it. It's not
who I am now. I can't change what has happened.

Speaker 5 (08:13):
I do wonder with the defense that you are running
about this about you know, you're a person in the
ADF and the culture within the ADF was was sort
of guiding me toward these views, whether that does risk
marginalizing or angering a lot of the veteran community and
the NT because we've had people members of Parliament come
out and say that their constituents have been in touch
had been quite unhappy.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Katie. I know that you've had people reach out and.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Luke Gosling, who's a veteran himself, and now that the
Labor member for Solomon, which of course covers dah And
said in a statement to the ABC last night, that
he felt that. He basically said he didn't want people
to think that the adf reflected those views at all.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
I just wonder I didn't say that it was the adfly,
but you.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Said that you posted that because it was in context,
because you were part of.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
A trying to justify it.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
If I had have done stuff like that, trying to
justify my work with corrections as an excuse for posting
stuff like that, I'm sorry, mate.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
It doesn't cut the muster with me. It may not
cut the muster with you, Bill, but you're not the
voter that I have to go in front in my
electric What I would say is that particular post of
vermin Irwin Rommel. We can't change the history. He is
a famous general that is many times quoted as supporting
Australian soldiers and having an admiration for them. I'm not
proud of this stuff I shared at the time, but
a lot of the theory is without the context.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
It is just one of the posts though, which had
you know, homophobic slurs.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
They had the.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
End word that was shared. It was a casual kind
of casual.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, I'm sorry, but it shows, honestly, it shows a
pattern of immaturity at some level those posts. If you
look at the in the overall scheme of things, and
some of those just as recently as two thousand nineties,
it's long, not as long as ten years ago. This
stuff is reasonably recent.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
The news articles that have been shared are yes twenty
nineteen from news outlets and sources. And I've not made
any comments in there that I believe that we're geography
to people this stuff, and I've acknowledged the staff that
I've shared that has offended people. I can't do anything
more than that, and ultimately, I'll be accountable to the
constituents on the doors and for the front line. When
I go and meet the police officers that I will
be doing over the next couple of weeks, I'll be

(10:17):
accountable to them.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Are you worried about how they're going to actually how
they're going to receive you based on some of what
you've said and based on the situation that you know
that they're in throughout this coronial inquest, which is absolutely
fair enough and adequate, But are you worried that they
are going to really see this as double standards?

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Well, I've got to explain that to them. I think
some people will see that. I think some people won't.
I've had mixed opinions from people. I went out today,
did my normal job, I doing a Friday the Lollipop
had mixed opinions from people there. And I've had mixed
opinions from veterans. Not all veterans necessarily I will agree
with me, because that's fair. We're not everyone in every
organization is the same of you. But there have been

(10:57):
others that have reached out and said, you know, I'm
supporting for what you're saying, and I can understand the
context of the environment you're talking about. I'm not condoning
what they're saying. I'm just saying that's the feedback.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
So how old were you in twenty thirteen and twenty
sixteen when some of these posts were made, Because.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I'm thirty six now, so twenty fifteen or twenty three,
twenty four, twenty two in some instances, Yeah, I just
say that, not making excuses of it. But some people
understand this. So I'd come back from eleven months of
my tour through Afghanistan and my view of the world
was different, not making like I don't have PTSD like
many other people have from their service or not that

(11:32):
I know of, but it definitely changes you and you
have a different view of the world after a period
of time from that, and it takes people time to
reassimilate back in. That is one of the things that
have come out from the Royal Commission that we are
not our assimilation process is different to others.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
So can you tell me who within the Labour Party
knew that these posts existed?

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Like I said yesterday, when I went through the pre
selection process, the chiefments of the time had and I
had a discussion over our post and some of those
posts were only one who knew. There was other members
of the now cabinet that had seen some of the
posts and when I was discussing it with them, and.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
What about the actual party, Well that.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
The vetting posts goes through the party as well, so
they did not There is people like not every member
knows because not every members involved, well they know they
had access to my Facebook. So people there were members
that had access to my Facebook. Some of these posts
were brought up at the time and I said, there'll
be Like I said yesterday, there's probably more posts that
this individual has screenshot. What they haven't screenshot though, they've

(12:26):
only screenshoted a particular set of posts to portray a
particular view. There are other posts on there that would
lead me to people to say, well that's a left view,
and they've not screenshot those because they don't meet them.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Kind of left views. Did you share well?

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Like I shared with AB, I would have shared ABC
and SPS stuff that I can tell you right now.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
About Tom.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Thanks for the free plub.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I'm sure I've shared some stuff from Tom, but I
supposed to flab and you about this stuff.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
It goes to the moral compass of Labor.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Lord.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
We've seen so much stuff in the last twelve months,
two years which really.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Questions the thing I've got to say. The thing that
I have to say that I see very often actually
from the Labor Party is slinging mud at other people
and calling people racists and saying that they don't support
race based policy, getting incredibly angered if questions are asked
that that may be you know, they deem sexist or

(13:22):
that they deem a certain way. So I think the
thing is, if you're going to be slinging mud at
other people, then they have to be prepared that they
need to make sure that you know that everything's clean
and that they're not in that situation.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
To imagine a hum and cry from labor if this
was a sealed p MA.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Two points I don't think, and I'm happy to be corrected.
I don't think I've ever called and yelled out and
called anyone in the CLP in the instance you're talking
about as racist, and usually that I said, we are abroad,
we are a broad party. We hold very we don't
all necessarily ligne to the one view which want to
make it clear because I'm I understand I'm in the
spotlight and I'm owning that now. But I and they

(14:00):
didn't yell across the room and you know, called Joe Hersey.
What others may have for what I would share in
the Chief ministry. For what I would say is that
I'm almost certain that everyone in there will have stuff
that they regret in their twenties. And I understand that
it's easy, it's a political win right now for the CLP,
but I'm also fairing conferdenced.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think it's a bit of an it's an own goal,
but hold on.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
What I would say is I'm sure that I'm not
going to be the only person from from my twenties
now politicians coming forward that will have a digital footprint.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Well, this is just like for the in the broader
context of what's coming up with the election, these posts
and this revelation really does damage Labour's ability to campaign
on some of those issues that you know, we've had
people in Labor come out and quite forcefully attack the
CLP on and that comes after of course the whole
Shares fiasco with Chancey who remains in posts, but also

(14:54):
Natasha files and that is transparency and accountability which Michael
Gunner famously ran on in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Those core planks of Labour's.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
Election campaign for twenty twenty four are now very very
very shaky.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Wouldn't transparency and accountability be when something like this comes out,
you go in front of it, you own it, you
make yourself.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
You only came out because it ended up in The.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
Minister doesn't come out and talked about this. But Chancey
Paker hasn't come out and address the media since that
one press conference for you.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
For the reaction well the Shares, he's not been open.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
But also the question is do you The question I
have though is do we go and any candidate comes up,
go here is my Facebook public, Go and have a
look at my full Facebook. Is that how we get
around this in the future, But give you access to
mine tomorrow. Mate. It's pretty well on boring. I know
you guys have cleared yours as well, so let's just
be really clear on that. But how far do we
take this? Because I think at the end of the day,

(15:48):
and I'm owning my mistakes, I've come out.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I think that's a fair question.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
I've owned my mistakes. But let's put in context and
I'm not slinging mad because you guys will do what
you want to do. But it took you six days
to get your opposition leader to come out. It took
six days for Josh to Rey to pre prepared statement
and not answer a question. What I'm saying is we don't.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think it's an iffy time to be if you're
two very.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Different talking about integrity and accountability. It is coming out
when something is all right.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
What did I want to ask you?

Speaker 4 (16:15):
What?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
And look, well, Chancey Pakes made it very clear in
the past that he's never going to reveal things that
happened in cabinet. But what was the reaction from some
of those cabinet members. Were they pretty pissed off with you?

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Or I can say it from more of a caucus
point of view. I'm not going to talk about cabinet discussions.
Obviously we go around the table, everyone gets to have
their discussion. They're disappointed by the comments, as you would be,
as I am. As I'm embarrassed how this has brought
my wife and family into it, which I think, you know,
anyone would appreciate. She's not in the public limelight, and
she shouldn't be in the public limelight. But you know,

(16:47):
they all acknowledge that the person they've met since November
twenty twenty is not the person that I was in
my twenties, and so I think we all people change,
and if we can't acknowledge that as a society, I
think it's an indictment of where we're going.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I mean, what do you say to any of those
people that are listening this morning though that are going
I just don't buy it, you know, I don't. I
don't think you've changed. You know, they don't believe you
at this point. What do you say to them?

Speaker 4 (17:11):
I can't do anything more than say what I've said,
and them have to come. And if my door's always open,
I'm there every Saturday at the markets. I do lollipop
on a Friday, like people can come and see me.
I can't, as I said, so I can't change what's
been done. And if I knew what I knew now,
you'd go back in time and you'd say to yourself,
will don't be a dick ed look ultimately, and I
know that people go it's a throwaway line, but that's

(17:32):
what I was. That was my vice was being stupid
on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
All right, we are going to take a quick break
because there is a lot to cover off this morning,
and there's a lot of issues that are impacting territories
every single day. So I'm going to get to those
in just a couple of moments. You are listening to
Mix one oh four nine. It is the week that was.
You've just joined us this morning in the studio. We
have got the Minister for Police, Brent Potter, We've got
Tom Morgan from the ABC, and we've got Billion from DCLP. Well. Overnight,

(18:01):
in some terrible news, a man has died in Alice
Springs after a stolen car crashed in the CBD. It's
alleged the car was stolen from Ross at about two
am I believe, enrolled at three point forty in the
morning with one person thrown from that vehicle. The eighteen
year old was rushed to hospital but passed away. Police

(18:22):
telling the ABC that eight others were in that car
who fled the scene, which was captured on CCTV. I
think we've all been very much wondering when something terrible
like this was going to happen. And it's not the
first time, but once again a terrible situation.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, it's really tragic and tragic for our town.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
But so many of us have been saying that since
the fatality on the main insection of town, a stolen
car with kids in it, run a red lot and
kill a man on a motorslager. Then we had another
guy hit in the eye with a rock and he
was driving a truck and luck that didn't end up
as a fatality.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
So many of us for so many years now been.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Saying the mayor, Josh myself, I think even marrying Scrimjaw
called this out as well some time ago.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
There was only a matter of time and.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Was this death preventable if we were If we're doing
what we're supposed to be doing as far as dealing
with people are out there stealing cars and stuff like that,
it might have been It's a really like it's a
bit of a far stretch to call that. But if
we were dealing with these people are out there stealing
cars and stopping them from doing it, then this may
not have happened. So this is a tragedy for this
young person's family and it's going to have rippling effects

(19:38):
right across our community now. But we've got to do
something about We can't. We've been saying this for so
long unless we do something about it, it was going
to happen, and sadly it has happened. The government really
now needs to step up and start taking some positive
action to stop this from probably happening again, and next
time it might be another innocent bystander who becomes the

(19:58):
Can you.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Paint a bit of a picture for our listeners in
terms of some of the behavior that does go on
in our springs overnight, because we see it very often,
Like you look on pages like action Fraulus or you
see the reports at different times that it seems very
often that vehicles are being stolen and driven around in
a reckless, dangerous manner.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
It's happening. It's happening all too often. Ca just about
every night.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I see it on the CCTV out at the front
of my office. You see people on a round about
doing crazy stuff. It's a regular occurrence. It was just
Wednesday night. I was off on my way to a
meeting or standing in a footpath talking to someone. A
group of kids like probably ten. One of them come
up and shoulder charge myself and the guy I was
talking to you standing on the footpath outside uncle's tabin,

(20:42):
and then he turned around.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Wanted to fighters.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
And it's just like, really, I have to go on
every day.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
It's crazy stuff.

Speaker 5 (20:53):
Like I have family in our springs and they have
had stuff stolen, they've had break ins. I think maybe
people in Darwin don't realize how common it is in
Alice Springs, and maybe that's something that needs to be discussed.
And I've also had lots of people in the political
world say the same thing as you there, Bill, that
you know it was a matter of time they felt

(21:14):
before something like this happened. And it's a tragedy and
it's really sad and there will be people who are
mourning today, and that's a really sad fact about it. So, yeah,
the police have to do their job and investigate the
circumstances around this, but it is going to, I think,
really bring back up that debate around as you're saying that, Bill,
what needs to be done in this space?

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Why the community start to normalize that? Though? It is
the big problem. When don't we.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Start to normalize some of the things we're seeing in town.
That shows a community that's in a bit of a
downward spiral because anyone who else comes to our town
and sees this stuff sees it as not normal and they.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Are quite confronted by it.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
And the fact that a lot of our community see
some of this stuff as normal is a major issue
for us, and that's something that we have to turn around.
We need to change that NARVD because what we see
is normal. You go anywhere else it's not.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
It's certainly not normal. I mean, Brent, it.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Would make it sound like it's very simple to fix.
Very the opening line you just said there was that
we need to get on top of this and stop
these people doing it. Well, I want to know what
they would do that would resolve the stolen cars. We've
put more police officers in our springs. We are converting
palis to constables to give greater constables in our springs.
We're going to talk to that in a second. Let
you talk, I let you talk without a single interruption.

(22:26):
So we're going to do that. We're going to be
all right.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Let's not explain to each other, let's just get into
the issue.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
Ultimately, you can't continue to lock up youth because at
some point they will get out and if you don't
rehabilitate them and provide them an opportunity to get off.
Now I'm a firm believer, there are some youth that
will have to go to dondale, there are some youth
that will need to go to work camps, there are
some youth that need to go to diversion. And in
many instances it's removing the ring leader, and police are
really good identifying who the ring leader isn't getting them
off the street. We have brought in the twenty four

(22:53):
to seven corresponding model in our springs that was lacking
like that was something that needed to be implemented earlier,
and we implemented that from November and it's continuing. We're
seeing more people put through the system. But ultimately this
is bigger than just changing laws, than the sale. People
like people to believe.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, look, I want to say that people have had
a gutfull. I don't know how many times I've said
that on this show, but we know that. Earlier in
the week, of course, Northern Territory police are investigating up
here on the top end. This was multiple violent incidents.
So at about ten thirty in the morning on Monday,
there was reports of a group of youths harassing members
of the public at Are shopping center on Trail Road. Now,

(23:26):
an eighty one year old woman was allegedly robbed by
three youths, one of those youths threatening her with the
knife before that group fled with her handback. One of
those kids was seven years old, right, one of those
kids seven years old. Now, I told this story on
Tuesday as well myself, and I'd messaged you about it, Brent.
I was here up the road at Harriet Place waiting

(23:48):
to get some lunch while I was crooked on Monday
off I got an off air, went to get something
to eat. I had a group of kids walked towards me.
I thought, oh, what's going to happen here. Next minute,
this kid that looked like he was about ten, looked
like he was my son's age, started yelling at me,
I'm an f and gangster. Then the other one tried
to steal my phone off me. He didn't get away
with it. Then it turns out that group has ended

(24:10):
up involved in aggravated robberies across Darwin CBD, including two
service stations. Thirteen and fourteen year old were later charged
with property and weapons offenses. Three eleven year olds conveyed
into the care of a responsible adult. So that's one
of the other incidents from this week.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
Now.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I also got a phone call from one of our
listeners yesterday. She had said that she lives in Fanny Bay, Brench.
I believe you've spoken to her as well. She had
somebody inside her house on Saturday night. I also yesterday.
I'm not ashamed to say that I ended up in
absolute tears on a yesterday after hearing that long term
territory in Stem and Jackie Edwards had had their home

(24:49):
invaded last week while Stem was at home incredibly sick
in bed, unable to move. They've gone through. They have
absolutely ransacked the home. Now, these are the kinds of
things that are happening on what feels like a daily basis, right,
But then we've got a situation where the government's going, well,
these are the measures that we've got and that's what

(25:10):
we're doing. That's it. So can you understand why people
have had an absolute gutfull They're going, hang on a
sec my way of life has totally changed. You've got
seven year olds who aren't at school, and then the
education minister stands up and said, well, these kids have
got to go to school. Damn straight, they've got to
go to school. But how do we just all make
these motherhood statements and nothing changes or nothing gets better.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
There's a worrying shift here too, Katie, is that we're
having groups and gangs of young kids specifically targeting elderly
people and elderly people in their homes. It's happening quite
a lot in Alice Springs. I've heard of five or
six incidents in the last two weeks where they're specifically
attacking elderly people seeing elderly people in their homes, and
not just once, but they come back again and again

(25:53):
and again and again targeting those these people are living
in absolute error and it shouldn't be happening. But we
said our police and now are so stretched, particularly at night,
because that's where most of the incidents are.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
They can't get there.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
That's the thing. There's no dispute right that the police
are doing their jobs. Everybody understands the police are doing
their jobs, but some weird things are breaking down incredibly badly.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
And there was the promise when the age of criminal
responsibility was raised. Well before the age of criminal responsibility
was raised and the debate was on when it should
be raised, the government was saying we will need lots
of support services in the background that will be able
to deal with this issue. The cop and LEA have
been out talking a lot about well where are they
and what are they doing? And I think that is

(26:39):
a key question. A lot of people are sort of asking, well,
where are these programs for you?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Also in the firm commitment when we've done those questions
of detail, that that there would be programs in.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Place before we tell us what they are. Which programs
are The overall.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Arching program is on the right track and that has
multiple components that are run by different providers. So some
maybe a one or two day course, some may be
a week, some may be actually being sent off to
seven EM News. As an example, we've identified the game.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Jerry Wood said to me earlier in the week that
seven E News is only opened for a certain period
of the year because of the wet season. It's not
I actually.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Said that to you as well when I was on
a Monday, that it's only open for a period of time.
And that's why we've identified the need for three camps,
which we've announced that we'll do this year and get
those up for those youth.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Because as I said on Monday, we're seven years in.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
I can only talk.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
I think to me, it's bullshit. We are seven years
in now, and I know that you've only been the
police Minister for a short period of time, so not
having a crack at unit. But the whole government, like
dead said, we're this far in and now okay, we've
got these boot camps that are going to come online.
Will how fast?

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Just people what of now in terms of the three
will run them with government? I think the lesson has
been learned and I think a lot of people can
probably appreciate this. Getting access to land and working through
those negotiations with TOS has been difficult getting it to
be cost effective for organizations to want to run these camps.
They do. It doesn't actually stuck up for many of them,
and hence wh it's taken so long to get the
ones that we do have. I agree they should have

(27:59):
been up earlier. That's why when I came in, we've
done a whole bunch of stuff around police and that
being correspond to model and from there we've realized, well,
once they've done twenty four hours in our out of
home care or our safe play sleeping, where's the next
place that we send them to? And that's why the
camps have come online and we'll get them up.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Do you have any timeline for when those camps?

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, no, Listen, we'll have before the middle of the year.
There will be announcement. You'll be able to go and
see one. It'll be an operation. Then the other two
will be done this year, so this year you'll see
three up. One is very close. It's not my portfolio
to be talking about those announcements and locations, but they'll
be needs based, so you can see one in the
central Barkley region and then the next one will be
done with.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
And so as far as the public is concerned, for
when Parliament sits next week, there is not going to
be any kind of urgent legislative changes or anything like
that that the opposition sort of called for to try
and have an impact in this space.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
So the opposition will always call for bar reform. They
want bar reformers the golden goose to fixing this problem. Unfortunately, though,
as I said to you on the showk last Monday,
once it's the judiciary, the jujitsuy still has the ability,
regardless of a presumption against bail, to still grant bail.
A murderer can still get access to bail. Now generally speaking,
they don't get bail in great numbers, but we.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Have the legislation the minimum sentencing well.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
But regardless of some of them are sitting in remand
longer than their actual sentence would have been. So that
to me is a resourcing issue. I've come on clearly before.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
It then that the justice system, Attorney General justice is
overwhelmed with the amount of work that has to do
and it.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Needs and it needs funny and we did put more
funding into the last budget for them, and I know
that We've just gone through budget cabinet. I'm sure that
there's a budget us in there for judiciary to get
and process more. But ultimately, we don't want youth going
in and out of prison. We want them going out
to camps, rehabilitated and back into a job or back
into the education system. And I can appreciate the frustration.
You know, I went and saw my I see all

(29:48):
my constituents that are victims of crime. I've called some
of yours you know that have been victims of crime.
Because regardless of what side of the political spectrum you
sit on, there is a level of compassion that you
have to undertake out because they're angry. They are rightfully angry,
and I'm to be honest, I'm angry with them. I
get frustrated when I talk to police and they deal
with the case and then see that youth again. You know,

(30:09):
changing the word.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
In terms of raising the age of criminal responsibility. I mean,
we now have evidence sort of in black and white
in front of us. You know, you've got a seven
year old that's involved in the theft of a handbag
from an eighty one year old woman on Monday. You've
got eleven year olds that are involved in a crime
series throughout the week, that's just from this week. Do
you regret that raising of the criminal age. Now, I'm

(30:32):
not saying that children that young need to go to jail.
That is absolutely not what I'm saying. But there is
literally like there's no program. There is nothing, by the
sounds of it, for those young children to do. I
know you've said there's the back on Track program, but
give us a tangible idea of what one of those
eleven year olds not you know, let's not name names
or anything, but what is a tangible outcome that one

(30:54):
of those kids that's allegedly held somebody up with a knife,
is it involved in Listen, Katie.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
I wish I could give you the standalone name of
the individual program in name one. The best person to
do that is Nari I. Obviously, all my programs for
police all I understand, for example.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
The outcome. You're not sure what the pols want to be.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Well, there's punishment and outcome are two different things. The
way the consequence you're talking about is the rehabilitation piece.
So some of those can be the victims of crime
engagement where they go back if both parties agree to it.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
So it's not even compulsory. That's the point that I'm
getting at, Right, So, for these kids have done that.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
That piece isn't compulsive because sometimes the victims don't also
want to sit down.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
That's fair enough. But let's be like, let's make no
bones about it. The offenders don't have to do it
if they don't want to.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
I agree on the face of it, it sounds bad, But
why would you put it? Why would you put an
offender in the room with the victim where they don't
want to be there and it could cause me.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
No, you're twisting my words around. That's not what I'm
saying to you. Is that an offender. It's voluntary for
an offender to do that program.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
For that piece the victim conferencing, yes, No for.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
What other programs though? Are they forced to do other
programs or is that all?

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Also, the eleven year olds are sent to the back
on Track program because it's not voluntary. It is uncause
not criminal. But how do you fee So this is.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
The point people are making, like you're trying to twist
my words there, But be honest with people, it's voluntary.
So you raise the age of criminal responsibility and then
they're not actually having to do a program. It's voluntary
for them to do a rehabilitation program. Can you see
how that's piercing people off?

Speaker 4 (32:26):
Put the next bit to it though, the Core ordered
family Responsibility agreements. That's how we hold the parents to
get the kids to go the programs. They may not
complete the first program, they may not choose to do
that program, but they'll be offered multiple opportunities to do it.
It isn't just the youth in this issue. For eleven
year old the parents need to be involved in its resolutely.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
They need to be involved in it. But if you're
at that point right where this is happening, we were told,
the public was told that the age of criminal responsibility
would not be raised until those programs were in place
and until everything was there ready to go. Now you're
not actually like, we're not hearing actual tangible outcomes of
some of those programs that are underway. You said you
can't name all of those, that's up to the Minister forfolio.

(33:05):
But the other part of it is that they're not compulsory.
So to a lot of people listening this morning, they're
going to be thinking, so you can you know you
can offend, you can be involved in a weapons offense
and not actually have to engage then in any kind
of rehabilitation program to try and get you back on track.
And I get what you're saying about.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
I'll get it. I'll give you another example, because there
is there is a consequence, but it's not necessarily through
the back on track program. For some youth who continue
to commit serious offending but are not of the criminal age,
we have a we have secure facilities that they get
taken into the care of territory families and that is
a secure facility that is like for example, remand or detention,
but it's not in Dondale. So there are youth that

(33:48):
commits serious offenses that are incapable of being with their
family that cannot go and conduct these diversion programs that
are taken into and one of those, for example, is
out near the Salt Bush Facility. It is an adjacent
it's a retrofitted old mental institution. There is a secure
facility for very high complex needs of youth that do
those offending. So that is the consequence for those that
should you know, that roll around with a knife and

(34:10):
commit those aggravated assaults could fail to get involved in
the programs, the parents won't support them. Territory families can
take them into their care and they've done that with
some youth and put them in this facility. And is
it happening well that that particular How many kids in
there now? I don't know that isn't my portfolio. I'm
happy to get you those details.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
And how much demand versus how much space is in
that facility is the field question.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Well, I can tell you that that facility, from what
I've seen out there and when I've gone through, there's
enough for about ten off the top of my head.
Remember walking down the halls and looking at the like
they're not sales but their rooms. You know, there's enough
there for probably the complex needs of those youth that
we have in Darwin. I'm not unsure what is in
Allison Tenner Creek stuff.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
For years and years and years now and we're six
months out from an election. We now find the seeing
an announcement from the Chief Minister about these youth camps
that government are going and run and people are asking
why didn't I do this six years ago when the
problem was there six years ago, five years ago, four
years ago.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
We've been crying out.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
For support in Central Australia for so long it's not funny,
and all of a sudden, only just recently in the
last week we're going to see are some camps and
facilities run by the government. It's too little, too late,
and it's again people see through it six months from
an election.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
What would you We've also had the replacement for Dundale,
which is a wholly unsuitable facility. That replacement facility has
been delayed and delayed and delayed, and it is still
into construction and there's no firm date for it opening.
So territories might be asking the question, these camps going
to open the middle of the year or is.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
It I'm not going to give you the official opening
date because that's for the minuteter, but it will be
before the middle of the year for the new facility
I can't remember what they're calling the new Youth romand facility.
And then don Dale will be demolished. But ultimately, Bill,
I would love to know what you will do in
the first twelve months that will make a huge impact
for territories right now because some of the issues we've

(35:59):
had have been around getting agreement on land access to
build these facilities, and that takes time. So please tell
me what you're going to do right now. It's going
to change it.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
This is about labor election. You guys have been in
power and you guys have overseen the phais and that
I suppose, at the end of the day, the crumbling
of our social fabric in some of our communities, and
you've sat back and watched it happen for six years
and all of a sudden, six months out from an election,
are we going to do something about it.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
You're an alternative government, though, which you have to have
some idea of what.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
Well I said.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
We've always been upfront about what we want to do
with sentence to a skill, which is that bridging point
between what would be lower level programs and of course
detention in our youth detention facility, and that's about getting
young people who fit in the middle layer to go
and engage in vocational educational activities, work with elders, do
normal education stuff and do that preparation to get back

(36:52):
into the community and be a purposeful member of that community.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
That's been a policy position of our since two thousand.
So basically the parmesan skill set that we announced where
youth can go for diversion and then go from that
location into a job, which.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You guys announced after we put out our position into
so it's exactly the same.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Okay, I thought you were also going to change the legislation.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh, look, there has to be some legislative change to
make all this sort of stuff happen.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Katie. We've said from day one that will walk back
the age of criminal responsibility. And it's not about it
and everyone's it's about the sealp throum kids into detentionent. No,
it's not.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It's about being able then the courts having the ability
to get kids to compulsory engage in programs and activities
rather than having to be voluntary engaged, so to send
kids to diversions and to go and do activities so
that we can try and break that cycle of a thing.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
We are going to have to take a really quick break.
There is a lot to cover off. You're listening to
Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is the
week that was well, it has been an incredibly busy hour.
Still plenty to cover off on this morning and in
the studio with us, if you've just joined us. We've
got the Minister for Police, Brent Potter, We've got Tom
Morgan from the ABC, and we have also got Bill
from the COLP. Now there has been calls from Tourism

(38:03):
Central Australia to take a look at a relaxation of
alcohol restrictions. They seem as are they not going to
go ahead? If well, if I could be wrong, but
the Police Commissioner had said to us earlier in the
week that he doesn't really he doesn't support a relaxation
of those restrictions. I think it's a really tough one, right.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
I don't think any government would want to repeat of
what happens in January twenty twenty three, well that I
can't remember when, yeah, that surge. I think that any government,
particularly ahead of an election, would be very careful about
doing that. I think that it's a very contentious issue.
You know, the government is coming out and saying that
those two extra days of no takeaway liquor in Central

(38:44):
Australian Billy might be able to talk to that as
well have have had an impact on the amount of
alcohol related incidents in Central Australia.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Certainly has, But again it's about taking things into context
where tourism Central Australia are coming from coming too a
tourist season. We've had some horrible tourist seasons, like last
year was really bad and we're hoping to see a turnaround.
Our reputation due to those crime and anti social issues
at home is horrendous and has affected our tourism. I

(39:17):
get why TCA want to bring wind those restrictions back
during the tourist season. I get that, and I look
at what happened. I said, when stronger futures lapsed with
nothing to come in behind it, our springs blew up
and burnt. And then we see the restrictions came back,
and how harsher than the restrictions we had in June
twenty twenty two, which were reintroduced in January twenty twenty three.

(39:41):
The crime stats, funnily enough, are still higher now than
what they were back in June. Whilst restrictions have helped somewhat,
we're still seeing increases in crime. Alcohol restrictions haven't been
the bill and end all fixed to everything. I get
the police too at least light the restrictions because at

(40:02):
the end of the day, it makes a rostering a
little bit easier when they're tied on numbers, because all
of a sudden there's a couple of days a week
where they don't have to man the bottle os and
the hours.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Makes a massive impact.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
You would think a question as well about whether the
depth in last year's tourism numbers was necessarily because of
what happened a year ago in January, or if it
was also there's an element of the borders and our
open everyone's traveling overseas and domestic travel.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Domestic tourism might be taking a bit about it.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Look, cost of living is definitely affecting tourism numbers in
this I think it's a combination of things that are
really affecting tourism. If you only look at their thick
numbers this year for bikes, they're way down. Normally they
fill up instantly over six hundred BikeE riders, we're down
to three hundred, three hundred and fifty. Again, that's a
combination of things. So but yes, our reputation is one
of those things. But cost living now for us I

(40:50):
need to stay is certainly playing apparent.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Is it something that the government's even considering at this
point in time?

Speaker 4 (40:55):
We won't be doing it this year, and we won't be.
What I have committed to TCA and the others is
to review it post August, whatever that looks like, and
the opposition can do the same. I think that it's
incumbent and the commitment given to other retailers is to
continue that at least for that period of time while
we're in government. But I have said to all of

(41:16):
those concerned stakeholders that from my perspective around alcohol policy,
everything has to be reviewed, like everything has to be reviewed,
and then that's what we use the Commission to do
a lot of that reviewing going forward, because I think
we have to get back to a point where we
learn where people can learn to live with alcohol so
other people aren't punished by not opening on certain days.
We have brought in the Pali conversion. I know that

(41:36):
has been contentious for some people, but the reality is
there are are officers that want to do more than
what they're currently doing that we have really real difficulty
replacing and recruiting to those positions. And I'm cognizant and
so's the commissioner that will lose those palies to other jobs.
So that what we've decided to do is convert them.
They will go back onto the bottle shops, they will

(41:57):
go back onto the locations that they've come from, will
do social order, so tip out high visibility policing, foot
patrols before and after the bottle shops are open and close.
Whereas previously the palis we were paying for them and
they could only work the hours of the bottle shop
and then they were off the bottle shop. They want
to do more so we can use this resource way
better and that's what we're committed to. And it will

(42:17):
be a difficult time. There's no doubt there are people
concerned for the sixteen weeks, but I can say between
Licensing and the other constables and the remaining palies, we
will cover down and find a program that best meets
the effect that we're trying to achieve, which is reduction
in purchasing.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
I do think there is a note that someone raised
with me the other week about this issue, is that
you know, the bottle shops, the bottle ooes aren't the
be all and end all of alcohol, and you can
go to.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Help clubs, pubs take away exactly.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
And so I think maybe that is a point that
maybe could be stressed in some of the tourism messaging
is yes, so there are these restrictions on takeaway alcohol,
but if you're a tourist you can still go and
enjoy a drink out.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
But he is a thing for hours and people when
I speak to people in el Springs about our restrictions
and they said there's forced against everyone says the same thing. Well,
Darwin got restrictions over Christmas and they didn't last for
very very long. They removed those fairly fairly quick and
there was a review done of Darlaen. Why hasn't there
been anything done for our springs. So it's again it's

(43:15):
those double standards that the people in outside of darl
And Sea, whether it's Catherine Tenant or asked and we've
got the harsh Alis has got the harshest.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Restrictions in the country now, and people ask those questions.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
There is a discrepancy there are in the crime rates
between Darwin and Alice Springs and Tenant those places see
much higher rates. So would you not argue that the
restrictions should reflect that.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh no, But people saying you're reviewed, You bought restrictions
into Darwin and then reviewed them pretty quickly and removed them.
But we're now saying we're not going to see a
review on Alice Springs till after an election, So why
can't it happen now? He said that the people that
springs is not me asking the question of people asking
that question, what's what's good for them?

Speaker 4 (43:59):
Why isn't that good for Why can't we have the review?
Let me ask you the question, Bill, if you would
you remove the restrictions now, if you were in.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Government, I'd certainly be having a look at those restrictions
and see how they work.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
So you're doing it. You're doing basically exactly what I've
committed to you. But they're doing it right now.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
If I was in government, I'd be doing that, reviewing
it right now and asking people about what they wanted.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
I wouldn't be waiting until afternoon election. Money. We do
the review every month. We get all the data and
the commitment that was made and agreed to with all
of the stakeholders what we'd run it through the rest
of the year. So we're committed to the commitment we
made to stakeholders that asked for it. And as secondly,
we have brought in the seven day Band drink or
order across the territory that is having an effect. And
I've said we'll do BDR reform around suspicious transactions, which

(44:39):
Alice Springs already has, and I understand that people want
the same rules across the territory, and I've made that
commitment that once we do those reviews will get there.
But what I what I ultimately would say, and you
talk about crime statistics, It is true properly defending is high, Alice,
but alcohol field assaults is down. So to try and
link and say that alcohol field assaults is still increasing
because of the olcohol restrictions regardless is incorrect and it's misleading.

(45:03):
Alcohol fuel adviolence is down, properly offending is high. Go
on stand Hyde Street and see what this start. The
stats are a little bit later. I agree that propery
defending is still too high, but the alcohol is having good, alcohol.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Restrictions are having any We are going to have to
take a really quick break. You are listening to Mix
one OW four nine's three sixty. It is the week
that was, well, we are just about ready to wrap
up for the morning. However, we can't wrap up the
week that was this morning without touching on the fact
that well Saint Vincent de Paul they are looking to
change their location. They've been in Stuart Park with their
homelessness services for quite some time and Coconut Grove is

(45:38):
the location that they're looking at transitioning to, as I
understand it, on a temporary basis, but for a while,
and it is all about still providing those services to
the homeless. A lot of people pretty unhappy about this.
I mean the member for Nightcliff, Natasha Files, had come
on earlier in the week, as had you, Brent, and
spoken about those plans to relocate some finneas today's the

(46:01):
day I think that you've got to have your.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Submission to the DCL closes today and close a business house.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Is it in the industrial part of Coconut Grove or
is it in the.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
It's both, so it's opposite the industrial park of Coconut
Grove and they're backing on the Orchard Road.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
But this is an election promise from twenty twenty to
move some Vinnie's from their current location.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, which is fair enough. I don't know that Coconut
Grows the place to go.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
And again that the people Coconut Graves has been seems
to be a lack.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Of consultation with them there that apparently, Okay, this is
coming and this is where it's going to be on
a temporary basis. So three and a half years that
the promise was back in twenty twenty and all of
a sudden, we're now going okaying with this.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Listen, I'm gonna appreciate what I can appreciate what Bill's
trying to do here and say this is government doing.
Let me really really clear, said.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Right, it goes from impacting one Electrodie Stuart Park, Gorfong
Limb potentially impacting three like it encompasses part of it,
say part of it for File's part of it for
Joel a bout it the service need.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
This is a very important service and it needs to
obviously be expanded and we can go there are different
options to outreach. As an example, there are other locations
and we'll continue to work with NAGE to find a solution.
It needs to move from Stuart Park. You are correct,
and that is long overdue. This is their land. They
decide to go there without you know that they can
go there without government intervention. Like ultimately it goes through

(47:27):
the DCA. I don't think it's the best location neither
of the residents. I think we can find something that
is better for all parties and still deliver a very
much needed service to vulnerable territories. Bundla Beach well, I
don't think you can develop in Bundlea Beach because of
the zoning that they have there.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
It's going to be interesting. We'll wait and see exactly
what happens and what kind of feedback the DCA does receive,
but look, we're going to have to leave it there.
Thank you all so very much for your time. Bill Yan,
thanks Katie to be here in person for once good stuff.
And Thomas Morgan from the ABC, thank you so much
for your time this morning, like I never left. Katie
Brank Patter, thank you for your time this morning, and

(48:03):
thanks thank you. You are all listening to Mix ONEO
fort nine's three sixty That was the Week, That was