March 13, 2025 • 13 mins
Every conflict between children involves two participants, not one. Breaking the destructive cycle requires recognising your child's role in the drama. Meanwhile, a little sweet talking can transform how your teen receives disappointing news, proving that tone matters more than content when communicating with kids. Discover how thoughtful delivery of bad news and understanding conflict cycles can revolutionise your family relationships.
Quote of the Episode:
"What we say matters a lot less than how we say it." - Justin Coulson
Key Points:
- How you deliver bad news to children significantly impacts their response and your relationship.
- Showing empathy and consideration demonstrates understanding and improves children's receptiveness.
- Ongoing conflicts between children create a "vicious circle" that needs conscious intervention to break.
- Teaching children to recognise their contribution to conflict cycles is essential for resolution.
- Children can learn to break the cycle by either changing their emotional response or changing their behavioural response.
- You can only control your own actions in a conflict, not the other person's.
- Helping children take ownership of their part in conflicts builds emotional intelligence.
- Breaking conflict cycles is a skill that benefits children throughout their lives.
Resources Mentioned:
- "10 Things Every Parent Needs to Know" by Justin Coulson (contains detailed information on breaking conflict cycles)
- Happy Families
Action Steps for Parents:
- When delivering bad news, use a considerate tone and show empathy ("sweet talking") to soften the blow.
- Draw the "vicious circle" with your child to help them visualise their role in conflict cycles.
- Discuss two ways to break the cycle: changing emotional responses or changing behavioural responses.
- Have these teaching conversations during calm moments, not during active conflicts.
- Remember that breaking conflict patterns takes time and consistent practice.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
What do you do when you've got to deliver really
bad news to the kids.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You can't you can't breface this with really bad news.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It was bad news well for her, I mean it's
not catastrophic news, but she felt like you're ruining interrupting
my intro here, What do you do when you've got
to deliver really bad news to the kids? And what
about when one of your children is at war with
somebody else's child? How do you resolve the conflict? Hello,
and thank you so much for joining us on the
(00:35):
Happy Families podcast Real parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's
most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson.
May I share my story?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Go for it?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, So for those of you who are knew to
the pod. Every Friday on the Happy Families Podcast, we
reflect on the week that was, we call this episode
I'll do Better Tomorrow. Why. Well, because every parent wants
to be intentional. Every parent wants to do better tomorrow.
By examining it, by putting ourselves under the microscope, we
get to have a look at what we're doing right
and wrong and hopefully help you and us to do
(01:07):
it better. Tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I'm trying to work out what this really bad
news is.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's the bad news earlier this week, I think it
was on Tuesday afternoon. You and I were recording a
podcast and we looked at the time and realized that
it had gotten away from us. We were not going
to get to school in time to pick up our
grade ten daughter. She attends school about a thirty to
forty minute walk from our home, and I had to
message her and give her the really bad news.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What was the really bad news?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You're going to have to walk home? We're recording podcasts.
And I thought very seriously about how I did it,
because from time to time, especially, I mean, it was
a hot day, it's muggy because Cyclone Alfred and all
of the rain and all that sort of stuff, super hot,
super gross. And I just thought, if I was going
to get this bad news, how would I want it
to be framed? So I sent the following text message
(01:58):
to our sometimes re active, nearly fifteen year old daughter,
And this is what I said, My sweet Lily, Oh,
my sweet lily, do you like that?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You didn't know that sweet talking?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I didn't know that was coming, my sweet Lily. Sorry,
to do this to you, but Mom and I are
recording podcasts and have to ask you to please walk home.
I know it's hot. I wish we could help. Take
your time, and we'll see you when we see you.
If we finish early, we will call you to see
if you need a ride. Love you, Lily, Dad. And
(02:35):
guess what. She responded with a love heart, And that
was it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's because she was raging so much she couldn't respond
with anything else.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If she was raging, she would have texted, or she
would have called, or she would have been upset at something.
She just she didn't leave me on red. She sent
me a love heart because she understood the tone. She understood.
And I'm saying this with fun, but really what we
say matters a lot less than how we say it.
And no matter what sort of news we're delivering to
our children, the way we say it makes a huge
(03:07):
difference in the way that they interpret it, the way
they respond to it, and what it does to our relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, it's a good thing you sent it. I would
have just said, hey, kiddo, you're on your own, see
when you get.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Here, and you know what, she'd probably be fine even
if that happened, although she would feel pretty jaded, and
I've said it her, Mum, I guess the main thing
that I'm highlighting here is when we consider it, When
we consider it of others or show that if we
could help, we would, it demonstrates understanding, It shows empathy,
(03:40):
and people are much more responsive to it that mishappy
Families is my older better tomorrow. The message we send matters,
and the way we send it matters even more impressive. Okay,
(04:02):
so let's talk about how you have gotten through this week.
What have you learned, what have you done right from
a parenting perspective, or what do you wish you could
do again?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So our ten year old Emily is homeschooled, but attends
various extracurricular activities that enable her to have social interactions
with other kids.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, she's in a bunch of classes and things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, and in one particular class, there is a child
who she has clashed with from day one.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
And it's got to and we're up today like seven
hundred and fifty or something like that, has been more
than a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's really really challenging. And it occurred to me
that in all of our efforts to teach our kids
how to work through challenges, she's actually missed the memo
on this one, or we've missed the memo we haven't
shared and taught her a really, really important skill. So
I asked her if she was aware of the vicious
(04:55):
circle and she said, what's the vicious circle? And I said,
I might need to talk to you about that. So
I waited till we were really soft. She came into
my room one morning last week and wanted to have
some snuggles after wake up, and I said, do you
think we could talk about the vicious circle right now?
And she said yeah, sure, mom. So I said I'm
(05:16):
going to need some pen and paper. So she raised
off and she grabbed some pen and paper and I said,
we've been having a really hard time with John, haven't we?
And she said, yeah, it's been really hard. I don't
like him at all. And I said, I know, I know.
Can you tell me what it is about John that
(05:36):
makes you so upset? She said, well, whenever I'm participating
in class, he always just makes really rude comments to me.
I said, comments like what and she said, he tells
me that no one asked me whenever I say something,
he says, who cares? And he tells me that I'm
gonna know it all every time? And I said, how
does that make you feel? And she said, it just
(05:59):
makes me really sad, and then it makes me feel angry.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
It's really problematic behavior. That's really concerning.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And I said to her, when you feel sad and angry,
I said, what does that make you do? And she said, well,
it means that I usually will say rude things back
to him. And I said, oh, can you tell me
some of the things that you might say when you're
feeling angry and hurt? And she'd said, I'd rather be
(06:27):
a know it all than be like you.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And I said, I'm sure that some parents are going
go girl, go girl, but is that okay?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So anyway, I then asked her, I said, when you
say things like that to John, I said, how do
you think that leaves him feeling? And she said, Mom,
he just laughs at me, and then he tells all
of his friends more rude stuff about me, and he
says more unkind things about me. And I said, I
know how that feels. I said, often when people laugh
(06:57):
when things aren't supposed to be funny, a cover up
to what they're really feeling. I said, if he wasn't laughing,
what do you think he'd be feeling? And she said
he'd probably be really sad. And then she paused for
a second and she looked at me and she said,
I think he'd feel injured. The clarity of thought with
(07:18):
this kid, oh my griss. And I looked at her
and I said, and when he feels injured, what does
he do? And she said, well, then he says man
mean things to me again. And I said to her,
I had drawn this in a circle, and so at
each part there's four four parts to the circle, and
so I filled in the boxes for her so she
(07:39):
could actually see it. And once we'd completed the circle
and we were back to John saying mean things to her,
I did a big flurry of scribble in the middle
and I said, can you see how we're in this big, yucky,
vicious circle and we can't get out of it? She said, yeah,
I can.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I want to jump in really quickly. Here. There would
be the ten for some people listening to think, oh,
hang on, now you're blaming your daughter for his bad behavior,
But that's not what's going on here. This is about
ownership and accountability for the part that you plan a conflict,
and if you try to work out where it started,
you've got to go back to two and a half
three years to when we moved to the Sunshine Coast
(08:17):
and she ended up in this boy, John's class. John
is an alias. Of course, it's a pseudonym, and we'll
never know. We'll never actually know where it began. What
we know though, is that over the last two to
three years, these kids have fed off each other. And
that's the real key here. This is not about absolving
(08:38):
someone of responsibility. Rather, it's about helping all parties. I mean,
John's really got to be part of this conversation as
well if we're going to be super effective. But all
parties need to understand that if there is a conflict,
they're each making some form of contribution to it. Hard truth,
but reality.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So we sat there and I said to her, what
what we need to do to actually break this circle?
How do we break this cycle that we're in because
every time you see each other, you are triggered by
his response to something that you've said, which then means
that you're unkind back, and we just keep going round
and round, And I said, so for me, I can
(09:18):
only see two places where we get to break this.
I said. Either we decide that when John says something unkind,
we're just going to ignore it because we know it's
not truth, and therefore we can alleviate ourselves from feeling
sad and angry. I said, but that's really tricky because
when they say things like that, it really hurts, doesn't it.
She said yeah? I said, So the next thing is,
(09:41):
can we stop it once even though we do feel that,
even though we do feel hurt and we do feel sad,
can we stop it there by not adding to the conflict?
And what would that do to the relationship over time?
Do you think that he might just lose steam when
there's no longer any response? And it was just I
(10:05):
was so proud of her. She's ten, but to be
able to sit there in that place and number one
feel heard and understood, but number two to have the
consciousness and the perspective to recognize that her words matter
to was really powerful. And so the next step now
(10:28):
is how do we involve the other child in this conversation.
I'd love to know, because this is where the real
learning can happen for both children as they come to
recognize and see each other's perspective. She's been able to
take a step back and recognize that her efforts are
hurting him, and so now we have this opportunity down
(10:51):
the track to actually help him to recognize the same.
The challenge, as you would be aware of, is that
we can only change us in any gar moment in time.
We only have control over us. So in spite of
all of our efforts to help the other child come
to the party with this, we actually don't get a
say in that at all. And there'll be plenty of
(11:12):
times in life where you won't even have the opportunity
to have that kind of dialogue with someone. So helping
your children to work out how they personally can stop
that cycle is such an important skill for their wellbeing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
If anybody would like more information about that particular cycle.
I mean, we haven't been through it with our kids
for ages, because except for Emily, they all know it
and can recite it back to us, and they roll
their eyes when we do it. But they copped it,
that's the wrong word. But they experienced that empathy and
that paradigm shift several times when they were younger and
(11:47):
having lots of fights with one another. It's available in
my book Ten Things Every Parent Needs to Know, and
it's usually in the context of sibling rivalry. But I
love what you've done there, So powerful, so helpful. Obviously,
it really shifted the way she sees him and their
relationship and her attendance and participation in that class.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't think this is over. I think we've got
a long way to go before she's going to be
able to work through this, but it's a really powerful start.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, what's the take home message? In a nutshell?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
It takes two to tango mm And it's a hard
truth at times, because we want to blame the other
person for the hurt that we're experiencing. But you can't
have a conflict with one person. We'd call that an
internal battle, but that in order for there to be
injured feelings between two parties, it takes two people.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Right, if it's ongoing. Of course, bullying is a different
matter entirely, But we're talking about this thing where one
person is feeding stuff to the other and it's being
fared right back. Really interesting conversation, really helpful and hopeful,
I'm sure for a lot of parents who are dealing
with this sort of stuff. The Happy Family's podcast is
produced by Justin Rulan for Bridge Media. We hope you
have a great weekend and we'll be back tomorrow with
(13:05):
a conversation with Lenor'skenazzi, the world's worst mum on the
Happy Family Podcast. We'll find out more about that tomorrow
for your weekend listening. More information and more resources though
to make your family happier. You'll find them at happy
families dot com, dot a
What do you do when you've got to deliver really
bad news to the kids.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You can't you can't breface this with really bad news.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It was bad news well for her, I mean it's
not catastrophic news, but she felt like you're ruining interrupting
my intro here, What do you do when you've got
to deliver really bad news to the kids? And what
about when one of your children is at war with
somebody else's child? How do you resolve the conflict? Hello,
and thank you so much for joining us on the
(00:35):
Happy Families podcast Real parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's
most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson.
May I share my story?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Go for it?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Okay, So for those of you who are knew to
the pod. Every Friday on the Happy Families Podcast, we
reflect on the week that was, we call this episode
I'll do Better Tomorrow. Why. Well, because every parent wants
to be intentional. Every parent wants to do better tomorrow.
By examining it, by putting ourselves under the microscope, we
get to have a look at what we're doing right
and wrong and hopefully help you and us to do
(01:07):
it better. Tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I'm trying to work out what this really bad
news is.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's the bad news earlier this week, I think it
was on Tuesday afternoon. You and I were recording a
podcast and we looked at the time and realized that
it had gotten away from us. We were not going
to get to school in time to pick up our
grade ten daughter. She attends school about a thirty to
forty minute walk from our home, and I had to
message her and give her the really bad news.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What was the really bad news?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You're going to have to walk home? We're recording podcasts.
And I thought very seriously about how I did it,
because from time to time, especially, I mean, it was
a hot day, it's muggy because Cyclone Alfred and all
of the rain and all that sort of stuff, super hot,
super gross. And I just thought, if I was going
to get this bad news, how would I want it
to be framed? So I sent the following text message
(01:58):
to our sometimes re active, nearly fifteen year old daughter,
And this is what I said, My sweet Lily, Oh,
my sweet lily, do you like that?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You didn't know that sweet talking?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I didn't know that was coming, my sweet Lily. Sorry,
to do this to you, but Mom and I are
recording podcasts and have to ask you to please walk home.
I know it's hot. I wish we could help. Take
your time, and we'll see you when we see you.
If we finish early, we will call you to see
if you need a ride. Love you, Lily, Dad. And
(02:35):
guess what. She responded with a love heart, And that
was it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's because she was raging so much she couldn't respond
with anything else.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
If she was raging, she would have texted, or she
would have called, or she would have been upset at something.
She just she didn't leave me on red. She sent
me a love heart because she understood the tone. She understood.
And I'm saying this with fun, but really what we
say matters a lot less than how we say it.
And no matter what sort of news we're delivering to
our children, the way we say it makes a huge
(03:07):
difference in the way that they interpret it, the way
they respond to it, and what it does to our relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, it's a good thing you sent it. I would
have just said, hey, kiddo, you're on your own, see
when you get.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Here, and you know what, she'd probably be fine even
if that happened, although she would feel pretty jaded, and
I've said it her, Mum, I guess the main thing
that I'm highlighting here is when we consider it, When
we consider it of others or show that if we
could help, we would, it demonstrates understanding, It shows empathy,
(03:40):
and people are much more responsive to it that mishappy
Families is my older better tomorrow. The message we send matters,
and the way we send it matters even more impressive. Okay,
(04:02):
so let's talk about how you have gotten through this week.
What have you learned, what have you done right from
a parenting perspective, or what do you wish you could
do again?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So our ten year old Emily is homeschooled, but attends
various extracurricular activities that enable her to have social interactions
with other kids.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, she's in a bunch of classes and things like that.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, and in one particular class, there is a child
who she has clashed with from day one.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
And it's got to and we're up today like seven
hundred and fifty or something like that, has been more
than a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's really really challenging. And it occurred to me
that in all of our efforts to teach our kids
how to work through challenges, she's actually missed the memo
on this one, or we've missed the memo we haven't
shared and taught her a really, really important skill. So
I asked her if she was aware of the vicious
(04:55):
circle and she said, what's the vicious circle? And I said,
I might need to talk to you about that. So
I waited till we were really soft. She came into
my room one morning last week and wanted to have
some snuggles after wake up, and I said, do you
think we could talk about the vicious circle right now?
And she said yeah, sure, mom. So I said I'm
(05:16):
going to need some pen and paper. So she raised
off and she grabbed some pen and paper and I said,
we've been having a really hard time with John, haven't we?
And she said, yeah, it's been really hard. I don't
like him at all. And I said, I know, I know.
Can you tell me what it is about John that
(05:36):
makes you so upset? She said, well, whenever I'm participating
in class, he always just makes really rude comments to me.
I said, comments like what and she said, he tells
me that no one asked me whenever I say something,
he says, who cares? And he tells me that I'm
gonna know it all every time? And I said, how
does that make you feel? And she said, it just
(05:59):
makes me really sad, and then it makes me feel angry.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
It's really problematic behavior. That's really concerning.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And I said to her, when you feel sad and angry,
I said, what does that make you do? And she said, well,
it means that I usually will say rude things back
to him. And I said, oh, can you tell me
some of the things that you might say when you're
feeling angry and hurt? And she'd said, I'd rather be
(06:27):
a know it all than be like you.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And I said, I'm sure that some parents are going
go girl, go girl, but is that okay?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So anyway, I then asked her, I said, when you
say things like that to John, I said, how do
you think that leaves him feeling? And she said, Mom,
he just laughs at me, and then he tells all
of his friends more rude stuff about me, and he
says more unkind things about me. And I said, I
know how that feels. I said, often when people laugh
(06:57):
when things aren't supposed to be funny, a cover up
to what they're really feeling. I said, if he wasn't laughing,
what do you think he'd be feeling? And she said
he'd probably be really sad. And then she paused for
a second and she looked at me and she said,
I think he'd feel injured. The clarity of thought with
(07:18):
this kid, oh my griss. And I looked at her
and I said, and when he feels injured, what does
he do? And she said, well, then he says man
mean things to me again. And I said to her,
I had drawn this in a circle, and so at
each part there's four four parts to the circle, and
so I filled in the boxes for her so she
(07:39):
could actually see it. And once we'd completed the circle
and we were back to John saying mean things to her,
I did a big flurry of scribble in the middle
and I said, can you see how we're in this big, yucky,
vicious circle and we can't get out of it? She said, yeah,
I can.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I want to jump in really quickly. Here. There would
be the ten for some people listening to think, oh,
hang on, now you're blaming your daughter for his bad behavior,
But that's not what's going on here. This is about
ownership and accountability for the part that you plan a conflict,
and if you try to work out where it started,
you've got to go back to two and a half
three years to when we moved to the Sunshine Coast
(08:17):
and she ended up in this boy, John's class. John
is an alias. Of course, it's a pseudonym, and we'll
never know. We'll never actually know where it began. What
we know though, is that over the last two to
three years, these kids have fed off each other. And
that's the real key here. This is not about absolving
(08:38):
someone of responsibility. Rather, it's about helping all parties. I mean,
John's really got to be part of this conversation as
well if we're going to be super effective. But all
parties need to understand that if there is a conflict,
they're each making some form of contribution to it. Hard truth,
but reality.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So we sat there and I said to her, what
what we need to do to actually break this circle?
How do we break this cycle that we're in because
every time you see each other, you are triggered by
his response to something that you've said, which then means
that you're unkind back, and we just keep going round
and round, And I said, so for me, I can
(09:18):
only see two places where we get to break this.
I said. Either we decide that when John says something unkind,
we're just going to ignore it because we know it's
not truth, and therefore we can alleviate ourselves from feeling
sad and angry. I said, but that's really tricky because
when they say things like that, it really hurts, doesn't it.
She said yeah? I said, So the next thing is,
(09:41):
can we stop it once even though we do feel that,
even though we do feel hurt and we do feel sad,
can we stop it there by not adding to the conflict?
And what would that do to the relationship over time?
Do you think that he might just lose steam when
there's no longer any response? And it was just I
(10:05):
was so proud of her. She's ten, but to be
able to sit there in that place and number one
feel heard and understood, but number two to have the
consciousness and the perspective to recognize that her words matter
to was really powerful. And so the next step now
(10:28):
is how do we involve the other child in this conversation.
I'd love to know, because this is where the real
learning can happen for both children as they come to
recognize and see each other's perspective. She's been able to
take a step back and recognize that her efforts are
hurting him, and so now we have this opportunity down
(10:51):
the track to actually help him to recognize the same.
The challenge, as you would be aware of, is that
we can only change us in any gar moment in time.
We only have control over us. So in spite of
all of our efforts to help the other child come
to the party with this, we actually don't get a
say in that at all. And there'll be plenty of
(11:12):
times in life where you won't even have the opportunity
to have that kind of dialogue with someone. So helping
your children to work out how they personally can stop
that cycle is such an important skill for their wellbeing.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
If anybody would like more information about that particular cycle.
I mean, we haven't been through it with our kids
for ages, because except for Emily, they all know it
and can recite it back to us, and they roll
their eyes when we do it. But they copped it,
that's the wrong word. But they experienced that empathy and
that paradigm shift several times when they were younger and
(11:47):
having lots of fights with one another. It's available in
my book Ten Things Every Parent Needs to Know, and
it's usually in the context of sibling rivalry. But I
love what you've done there, So powerful, so helpful. Obviously,
it really shifted the way she sees him and their
relationship and her attendance and participation in that class.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't think this is over. I think we've got
a long way to go before she's going to be
able to work through this, but it's a really powerful start.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, what's the take home message? In a nutshell?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
It takes two to tango mm And it's a hard
truth at times, because we want to blame the other
person for the hurt that we're experiencing. But you can't
have a conflict with one person. We'd call that an
internal battle, but that in order for there to be
injured feelings between two parties, it takes two people.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Right, if it's ongoing. Of course, bullying is a different
matter entirely, But we're talking about this thing where one
person is feeding stuff to the other and it's being
fared right back. Really interesting conversation, really helpful and hopeful,
I'm sure for a lot of parents who are dealing
with this sort of stuff. The Happy Family's podcast is
produced by Justin Rulan for Bridge Media. We hope you
have a great weekend and we'll be back tomorrow with
(13:05):
a conversation with Lenor'skenazzi, the world's worst mum on the
Happy Family Podcast. We'll find out more about that tomorrow
for your weekend listening. More information and more resources though
to make your family happier. You'll find them at happy
families dot com, dot a
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