September 17, 2024 • 38 mins
Wondering if it’s worth returning to work when child care costs are eating up your paycheck? You’re not alone. This episode takes a closer look at the true cost of child care, the long-term impact of a career break, and practical tips to navigate these tough decisions while keeping your financial goals in sight.
The Australian government website for researching childcare: https://www.startingblocks.gov.au/.
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Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
(00:23):
as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that makes money talk easy and relatable. Just like chatting
with your besties, that's us and if your besties are moms.
This question is probably one that comes up in the
group chat a lot. Is it really worth going back
to work with these childcare costs? It is a tricky one.
I know a lot of our audience are probably feeling
the pin right now. Well, today I'm here with our
(01:18):
resident finance expert and supermom, Victoria Devine.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Supermum is a stretch. I'm like my baby is fed
and clothed and not crying.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Sleigh, that is a winner.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Truly credible. Beck, I am very excited to be here
talking about childcare. This is new to me and I
cannot wait to dive deeper.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I mean, I don't know, I don't have children, but
it just sounds like it's so much gonna be.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Shook with the information that I'm bringing today. You're going
to be like, how in this economy can anyone afford children?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Mmm? Well, I'm excited to hear so v how much
exactly our families spending on childcare.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's not very pretty so on average, Australian families are
spending around seventeen percent of their income on child care. Well,
as you can probably imagine, that is a massive financial
commitment that's forced many parents to make a really hard
decision between work and family life. And for many of them,
childcare is such a big financial strain that impacts literally
(02:16):
everything from weekly grocery budgets to long term saving goals
and living their best life. In places like Sydney. In Melbourne,
full time childcare can set you back back, sit down
anywhere between one hundred and twenty and two hundred and
twenty dollars a day, a day, a day, and Bestie
on this side of the table, I'm spending one hundred
(02:38):
and ninety four dollars a day on childcare a day.
Is so outrage and I'm only sharing that because that's
inner Melbourne. And I feel like when I put on
my Instagram a couple of months before Harvey was due,
because I was really trying to set all my ducks
up and like, you know, pick a day care before
he'd even like gotten here. Basically because even the waitlist
(03:00):
beck are insane, I was asking like how much do
you pay? And it was so wildly different, like some
of them are like, oh, one twenty a day, someone
like literally like two hundred and fifty, like on averages
between one twenty and two twenty a day. But it
varied so much that now I'm like, well, I'm you know,
in a city Melbourne, I'm within that like ten kilometer
bring around to the CBD and I'm paying one hundred
(03:20):
and ninety four dollars a day. And having been a
little bit over the top, I looked at basically every
single deca in my area and that was actually average,
like it wasn't oh the most expensive one that was
just what you pay crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, it's like sometimes that would be more than what
someone makes a day if they were Yeah, and get this,
if you have a permanent position. So I am lucky
enough that Harvey has been given a permanent position. So
we know that he goes two days a week, but
those two days a week it's set aside for him.
But if your child doesn't go because they're sick, you
still have to pay. Really, yeah, you can't just like
(03:55):
call in and be like sorry, like we're not coming
in today. Money in, Like no, no, you're paying for that day.
And even though they probably got sick from being in childcare,
that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Matter at all. And I think nothing recently has stung
quite as much as seeing a payment go through for
the days that Harvey hasn't been in his little class. Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I mean, like, I know that childcare workers do deserve
to be paid a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And so I wrote a whole article in the Sydney
Morning Herald and the Age probably a year ago now,
just being like what the heck. And this was during
my period of time where I was doing all of
my research on my daycare centers. Working out what we
were going to pay for and what that looked like,
and I was horrified. I mean, that's a conversation probably
for another day, because they do deserve to be paid
(04:45):
so much more, and we'll touch on it absolutely so,
because I don't really know what these costs are, Like,
I am quite mortified, but I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
There are reasons for this.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
So there definitely are reasons for this.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Tell me, yeah, what's driving these high costs?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Honestly, A lot of it just comes down to regulation.
So childcare centers have to meet really strict staff to
child ratios, which then obviously varies by child grouping and
affects the price. So right now, Harvey is six months old,
but that means he's got the most level of care
right now, So there's the minimum amount of babies per
(05:20):
child care worker in his room because he can't even
sit up unassisted at this point, Like we can sit up,
then we fall over, so he needs basically someone always
watching him. Whereas you can probably imagine once you get
to like three or four, I won't say they're fully independent,
but like they're happy to go play on their own
and they can get their own toys and whatnot. So
for little ones under two here in Australia, it's one
(05:44):
care for every four children, which obviously drives up costs
to maintain that quality, but also your kids safety, right,
so you've got one person per four children, and as
your kids get older obviously that relaxes. And here in
Australia kids over three can have about ten or eleven
kids per care, depending on your state, which means that
(06:05):
usually your fees will drop a little bit lower, but honestly,
nothing to write home about.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Sure, I assume, like inflation, cost of living going up,
that probably is also a.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Kind of oh my gosh, yes, yeah, oh, I'm looking
at it at the moment. And there's obviously a lot
in the media about more support happening for childcare, but
I can just see it coming. Cares are just going
to increase their prices and pass things onto you, which
I think is crazy. But with basic needs like rent
and utilities and our grocery bills being so much, don't
(06:38):
get me started on the Woolies profit this year, those
costs get passed on, which makes childcare even more expensive.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I see, that's so hectic.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And some centers beck it's like the wild West in
a way. I won't say there's obviously like a lot
of regulation, but sure. Some childcare centers, like the one
Harvey's privileged enough to go to, is all inclusive, so
like I drop him off in the morning and it
includes his meals, it includes nappies, it includes his formula,
which is really cool. I didn't realize that. Like when
(07:10):
I dropped him off for the first time for orientation,
they were like, what formula is he on? And I
was like, oh, he's on this and they were like,
no worries, We'll buy it and put it to the side. Cool,
And I was like, okay, Like that made it sting
slightly less. I guess that makes it formula's expensive, beck, Yeah,
and that formula for Harvey thirty four dollars a can
and we go through like at least a can a week.
(07:31):
Oh wow, okay, so right, it kind of shaves off
a little bit, the smallest amount. I mean, if they
cut my day care fees in half, I would be
very happy to be wayo formula. But not everybody is
in that lucky position. Some people will probably be like,
V I'm paying what you're paying, and I have to
send nappies to daycare. I have to send formula, I
(07:51):
have to send a packed lunch. Like, as I said,
it can kind of be the wild West. There's no like, oh,
if you charge this much, you have to give this
level of service. While it's you know, obviously very convenient
for me, and on average, it costs more in places
like that than where places where parents supply it. But
I do know from my DMS from when I was
talking about childcare, there are some places that just know
(08:14):
there's such high demand for childcare that they're like, you
guys can provide everything. We know you're still going to
come and we're going to charge through the nose. So
there's a bit of a trade off between convenience and
costs sometimes but not all the time.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, let's talk about like the impact on families. I
assume it's like quite massive. Yeah, it's so.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Stressful, so many parents And I'm in a mother's group
now cool. I don't even know if they know I
have a podcast, but if they do and they happen
to listen to, high heaps of parents still really forced
to cut back on work hours or completely leave the
workforce entirely. Yeah, Beck, when you calculate it out, like thankfully,
between Steve and I, we only do two days a
(08:55):
week daycare if you don't get any subsidies, and we
just going to base it on that one ninety four
that I mentioned before, if Harvey was in full time
daycare Monday to Friday so that I could go back
to work full time, if I was, you know, fully employed,
and I am definitely seeing the privilege that I have
right now being a business owner and it being flexible.
(09:16):
And you know, Beck, if I'm like, hey, Harvey's coming
into the office, You're like, yeah, sick, no worries, Like yeah,
nobody minds. I am so lucky, and I know that's
not the norm. Post tax, that would cost my family
fifty thousand, four hundred and forty dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That is literally someone's wage. Imagine you're a single poy.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
In someone's wage, like Beck, that's someone's take home cash.
We're talking an eighty plus thousand dollars salary. And don't
get me wrong, we will talk about subsidies and stuff
because a lot of people get money back, but there
are families out there that you know, one is a
really big bread winner, has a big dog, job, and like,
let's not jump into the well, they're so lucky to
(09:57):
have that income. Like we're not talking about just the
income here, we're talking about it being viable for women
to maintain their careers. It just doesn't make sense for
your wife or your partner or your husband to return
to work if they earn less than that. Totally go, well,
what's the point we're paying through the nose for me
to go to work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And just insane, Beck, it is insane. I just really
worry about the single parents in the situation because they're
literally what do you do?
Speaker 5 (10:23):
What do?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
You just got to live off zero dollars for it?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
And I mean you will get as a single parent
subsidies and stuff, and we'll get into that, but that
doesn't mean that it doesn't come out of your bank account,
which is something we'll get onto.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Back to career progression, obviously, it impacts that it stalls
your long term career progression and your long term financial stability.
And in fact, there was research that I was reading
recently that said that sixty seven percent of Australian mums
said childcare costs influenced their decision to work less or
not at all right, okay, sixty seven percent. It's important
(10:57):
to also recognize here that not everyone has the life
of choice. So some families parents need to work to
make ends meet. But for those of you who do
have a choice, it's all about weighing up what is
best for you. A really common way that I'm seeing
it being broken down is by comparing the cost of
childcare with what the primary care earns. So once you
(11:17):
subtract those fees, is the remaining income enough to justify working.
Sometimes the number bekad just doesn't add up. And then
the time spent away from your kids, like you just go,
that's not worth the financial return. And I can see
that so much now, like I don't want to be
away from Harvey if I don't have to be yes.
And then if you said, VI, you're not going to
(11:38):
earn that much if you did go back to work,
I'd be like, that's not worth it, Like what are
you talking about? And I know that if you are
a parent, you probably really resonate with that. But before
I was a parent, I think I definitely had the
view of like no, no, no, Like I am forever
a working mum, Like I just know that in my soul.
I need to work to be the best version of me,
(12:00):
and that's true. But that pool to always be closer
to Harvey and be around him is there as well,
and I didn't realize that it would be as strong
as it is. So I can see it being really,
really overwhelming for a lot of families to be like,
I really want my career, but I really love my kids.
But I really want a career. But is it financially
(12:21):
viable to do so? And there's long term impacts, like
if you're out of the workforce, you don't just get
to enter back where you were and have the same
amount of career progression. Ah but Beck, what if we
are looking at all of this the wrong way. We're
going to take a really quick break, and when we return,
I'm going to share why I think this mindset could
(12:41):
potentially use a bit of a shakeup. So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
All right, we are back. Thank you for sticking with us,
but you promise us a hot take before the breakup?
I do a little Yeah. I was really like intrigued,
how could we possibly turn this around?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
All right?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I want to give you guys a bit of a
mindset shift. When it comes to thinking about childcare costs.
As you probably already know, I'm a really big believer
that when you're doing those sums, the cost should actually
be split between both parents, yes, not just the primary care.
So how many times do families sit down and go, okay, cool,
well back, you know, let's pretend you and I had
(13:19):
a baby. It'd be really cute if we did. We way,
what do you earn back? And then what do I earn?
And then you know, the childcare cost gets calculated and
we go, well, beck, you wouldn't be able to earn
that much, so not worth your going to work. Let's
push that back. So not just what the primary care
is earning, but we're sharing the cost, and by sharing
(13:40):
the cost, we're acknowledging that raising children is a joint
effort and that both parents benefit from childcare. I think
so often the primary care is the one that has
to sacrifice, and then the other person is seen as like, oh,
but they're the breadwinner, as though childcare isn't the benefit
for them, when that's not the case. Because there is
(14:02):
a trade off to consider. A career break could obviously
lead to a very significant drop in superannuation contributions. And
missed opportunity for career growth like I was saying before,
and promotions and bonuses and pay rises, and over time,
the gaps in this widens and it affects long term
earnings and your financial security. And when you return to work,
(14:23):
it often means that you start at a lower salary
or like a reduced position, which is another financial penalty.
And these cumulative effects they add up, and they add
up quickly but silently. You don't see them, but they're
adding up, making it really important to weigh the short
term benefit of a break against the potential long term
financial impacts. And it's a very tough call with honestly,
(14:47):
I wish I could tell you, but no perfect answer,
and it really comes down to what's best for your
family and your unique situation. But I want to reframe it.
It's a family cost, not a U cost. It's not
the cost of you leaving the business. Yeah, that's so true.
You know, one hundred and ninety four dollars a day
broken up in my family looks like ninety seven dollars
(15:09):
per head for Steve and I to have a career. Yes,
that's a bit more palatable.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I didn't even think about that that's so funny that
my brain was automatically like, whoever's going back to work
is paying the thing?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
But patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, based on that, I assume this affects women more.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Right, definitely, And like it's not a topic that we're
discussing on shees on the money because it impacts men significantly,
Like it is a topic that we're discussing because it
does impact women more. And women are more likely to
take extended breaks to care for their kids, and so
often they shoulder most of these costs, and that contributes
significantly to the gender pay gap and the subranuation gap
(15:47):
over time. And how many times have you seen my
name pop up on Instagram back because I've gotten in
another fight in the comments section on a post about
the gender pay gap where people are saying it doesn't exist,
fighting the good fight or starting fights with people who
you know when you just go, is this even worth it?
Because you get people who are smart human beings going yeah,
(16:08):
these correct, right, But then the potato who posted the
stuff like, dude, graps not real, Like why are we
fighting with people who you can't change the opinions of no,
And it's.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Also factually really like They're like, show me the research
stends me a link and I'm.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Like, right here, right here, it is right here. I
have put a flashy sign on it. It is right here.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And they're look, that's not real research.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I don't what do you deem is real? The onion like,
I can't. Oh no, I saw that on the Buttudah.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It must be true all Batuda people.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
So I guess Beck back to the conversation at hand.
If you do decide to stay home with the kids,
it's really important to keep these factors in mind when
you're planning for the future. So my favorite thing.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Ever, that's let's do some.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
So say you're getting about ten grand a year in
super Yes, nice. This amount might not seem in isolation
like that much. So while you're not working, contributing might
feel like less of a priority. Like whatever, it's ten grand.
Ten grand's a lot of money. But let's say you
take five years off, because that's the amount of time
(17:16):
that it might take your tiny human being to get
into school. That's fifty thousand dollars in missed super contributions.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Peck.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
True, that's not great, but over five years, it's easy
to go, oh, whatever it was five years. We'll shrug
it off in the short term. But here is why
it matters, and it all has to do with my
favorite thing that's not maths, which is compound interest. Like
compound interesting, it's the money that your money makes. When
your money's made, money like that is very sexy. If
(17:45):
that fifty thousand dollars had a chance to compound over
thirty years, not unreasonable at a very conservative rate of
seven and a half percent, because we all know that
the Australian share market has returned more than nine percent.
Well we can use seven and a half because I
would much prefer under promise over deliver, you know. Oh yeah, yeah,
that's a me thing. It would grow to around four
hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Holy hell, that's so good. It is shocked by this.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But Beck, most women do not retire with four hundred
and fifty thousand dollars. That's abranuation.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's a real problem.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So you're telling me that just by really caring about this, yeah,
we could put women in a better position. We know
that the highest growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness, Beck
are women in their fifties and sixties. You're telling me
that by caring about this, by helping them contribute when
(18:38):
they take career gaps, I could save a lot of
people from going through that. Why aren't more people doing
more stuff about this, That's a great question. So it
could be very worthwhile having your working partner, beck contribute
to your super while you're on that break. Yes, again
a privilege if you have a partner in that situation
and you're not a single mum. But there are lots
(18:59):
of things that you could plan around that if you
were a single parent, Beck, like if you're planning to
become a single parent in the future, contributing a bit
more to your super before you go on leave or
even after. There's just a lot to do, but it
could be very worthwhile looking into that. I think it's
also really worthwhile thinking about ways to upskill while you're
not working. Are you going to re enter the workplace
(19:21):
even more skilled than when you left it? Smart means
smart move though.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, you could just YouTube a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, And there are plenty of courses and certifications that
you can do online, even at your own pace, to
keep your skills sharp or learn something new. And this
can make you obviously a more attractive candidate when you're
ready to return to work and help aim for those
I guess promotions and pay rises in the future that
you might have missed during your break.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
That's a really good idea of v And then I guess, like,
you know, obviously you will be working full time unless
you have an equal parent. Hopefully they take some of
that off your hands. I mean they should go it
in like all of it's just hardbare. I totally agree. No,
look great in the interviews if you're like, hey, while I.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Was on leave, look what I did. I am a
very motivated person. I'm a very big believer in hiring mums.
Like I have a few mums on the team, and
I just know they're the ones that are going to
get it done back.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh yeah, because they've gone from working twenty four hours
a day.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Back into being like, oh, you only want thirty eight
hours from me, No worry.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Easy, easy.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Also like I just hire a working mom. I mean
I gets a recruitment strategy around hiring a working mum
and giving a work life flexibility to be able to
pick the kids up, go to school, assembly, and then work. Anyway,
we could do a research piece into my business, but
that is not what we're talking about, Beck.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No, that's true. But I do want to know, like
how some ways that families can get support. Yes, so
we were talking before you could claim some So currently
in Australia, the Chugcare Subsidy or the CCS, is available
to families who have a combined income under five hundred
and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
That's so much money. Yeah, So, like I was talking
before about, obviously an individual earning so much that you
don't get the CCS right, and then obviously weighing up
whether it's worth somebody else going back to work. Obviously
that is a very unique situation and that must be nice.
But when we're talking about this, I think we need
to check our own privilege but also kind of keep
(21:12):
our blinkers on it and stay in our own lane.
Like let's say that there is a case study sitting
over here and it's like George and Frankie right, like
we've just made them up and Georgia and so much money,
and Frankie, you know, has a good job, but isn't
going to be able to claim anything. Do you think
it's fair to then say, Beck, well, that woman because
her partner earns bank and like takes home so much money,
(21:36):
should you know, just stay home with the kids, or
should they be spending heaps and heaps and heaps on childcare? Like,
I just don't think that women should have to have
the burden of choosing between either because it's their problem. Like,
I get the conversation. I get the privilege in earning
so much that it's like a financial conversation but also
like a work life balance conversation. But I just still,
(21:57):
at any income level, even if you are so financially secure,
hate the idea that women are still choosing between these
two things. Like it's the nineteen fifties, I know what
the hell Like cool, like your partner owns heaps, but
like I want to pave my own way too. I
want to feel accomplished. I want to feel like a
contributing member to this household. Like I know that it's
(22:20):
not just about the money, but like I want to
feel like a whole person. It's like me, right, beck
I have said before I had a baby and after
I had a I'm a working mum. Yeah I'm not
going to be that mum who is a stay at
home mum. Does that mean I'm less dedicated to my kids.
Absolutely not. But I am the best version of me
when I get to work, and I think other people
(22:40):
in that situation should have the privilege of choice. But
the CCS back to this, is a subsidy that the
Australian government pays directly to your childcare provider to reduce
the fees that you have to pay. So the amount
you receive really depends on your income, the number of
children that you have in care, and the age of
your children, and the type of childcare that you use
(23:03):
in the hours of approved activity that you undertake like
work or approved study. So there is in the CCS
an hourly rate cap that's based on your child's age
and the type of care that they are in. So,
for example, Beck, the hourly rate cap is fourteen dollars
and twenty nine cents for kids under six in center
(23:24):
based care. If your CCS rate is, say, for's sake,
fifty percent, and you were paying for eleven hours of
care at two hundred bucks, uh huh, so eighteen dollars
and eighteen cents per hour, you'd only get fifty percent
of the CCS on the first fourteen dollars and twenty
nine cents per hour and you'd have to pay full
(23:45):
fee for the rest of the time.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Why goddamn minute. I am having trouble absorbing that. So
that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
That is it's nice. I think it's like I'm still
paying full fees on top of that. So there's an
online calculator and I'll make sure that this is in
the show notes if you want to have a play
with it. Not you specifically, Beck, but the community who
it is relevant to. I feel like people are probably
going to think this is really pervy as well. If
you don't have kids, you're like, wait, that's how that
system works.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, But it's.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
At starting Blocks dot gov dot au, which is a
government website about all things childcare, which can help you
estimate your subsidy and how much you will pay based
on specific center costs. Beck. Some proposed policy changes aim
for more affordable care, including a campaign proposing ten dollars
a day care for all Australians, but nothing's finalized yet.
(24:37):
And do you want my two cents? Beck? Of course,
So hold on, let's step back. So say you incur
a cost for your work, you get to claim that
on tax right. Yes, So for me to turn up
at work today, Beck, I had to put my child
into daycare. That's a work cost. Why can't I claim
childcare as a part of my work costs. It's the
(25:02):
cost of going to work, like my husband and I
should be able to And this is not me being greedy.
This is because this is what I want across the
whole country for everybody. Ye Like, I want you to
be able to claim your out of pocket costs, which
we just articulated to you. You're paying fifty percent. Still,
(25:23):
I want you to be able to claim that against
your tax return. I want you to be able to say, well,
this was a cost that I incurred in order for
me to go to work and be a productive member
of society. I should get the tax back on that
if I'm paying for something that is very work related.
I feel like this conversation needs to open up, and
hopefully in the future it becomes like one of those
(25:44):
conversations that we had a couple of years ago about
how we used to get taxed on tampons. Oh obnoxious, Right,
you're like, well, why are we being taxed on that? Yes?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Soon, low down, I'll be like, wow, why couldn't we
claim it. But these costs aren't taxed, as you're saying,
which is there are some other ways that people can
lower these costs. I assume yes there are.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
So first I'm going to tell you something and I'm
going to sound like a broken record, but you need
to do your budget and figure out what subsidy you
are entitled to to help you make the decision that
is right for you. Then I want you to do
your research. So costs for different centers and services are
going to vary greatly within the same suburb. So as
I said before, like my cost was much of a muchness,
(26:30):
but they did range, Like I did go and see
a couple that I was like, okay, Like I am providing,
like you know, formula and nappiers and it's one sixty
a day. But when you calculate it all out, it
all comes out in the wash when you know, adding
things in. But we want to shop around. We want
to make sure that we know what we're paying for
and its relevance in our community. So starting blocks, the
(26:53):
website I mentioned earlier is going to be able to
help you with this. I also want you to weigh
up the price of childcare closer to home versus closer
to work. So if you live in the suburbs, childcare
actually might be cheaper than if you opt for an
inner city service where rent could be factored into the
price that you're paying, right, and having care close to
home instead of your work could actually be convenient too,
(27:16):
if you don't have to go to the office, but
you still want to put your kid into childcare during
the day. Maybe your boss is nice. Unless you work
from home, that's cover, but having a kid at home
not ideal. One of my friend's workplaces has just brought
out this entire policy back side note, and they send
out this big email that obviously I got sent screenshots
of because Tea in the friend group chat of course
(27:38):
of how if you're working from home you're not allowed
to have your kids home at the same time as well.
What isn't that wild?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
What the to allow?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
And there's like so much backlash because I can kind
of understand that if you had a full time parent
working for you, but they were also like full time
caring for a child, you're not going to get the
dedicated hours out of them, give or take. Like there's
a very big conversation about that, but it included like
if your partner was home with the kids. They see
that as too much of a distraction. Isn't that insane?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Wouldn't work for me?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
No, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
If you have the option as well, Beck, you could
ask your support network. But again, that's a privilege that
so many of us in our community now don't have.
Like we just don't have the family support that we
used to have. Could a family member potentially help out,
or if you've got friends who might be able to
help out with childcare? Not everyone can do this, but
we are so lucky. I think you know when you're
(28:34):
just like, I'm married into it. You probably have not
had this thought because you're not married yet. But like
I remember being like one, I've messed up. I've married
into a family of runners.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Oh yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
There's a problem. Like they run for fun on holiday,
on holiday, they run, don't like any type of event
Mother's Day. Wow, we're running the Mother's Day Classic. Sorry,
we can't run a Mother's Day Like my sister in law,
Holy moly, Boston Marathon, Like wow, be for real, like incredible,
she's training so hard. But like it's impressive, you know what,
(29:07):
I make the pancakes at home. But the one thing
that I did marry into was a family with great support. Like,
oh my gosh, Steve's mum, She's like, so do I
get Harvey on Friday? Like? Can I look after him?
You let me know, I'll drive to you and pick
him up. I'm like, you are doing the most, but
that's not something that everybody gets, right, Like that is
(29:30):
absolutely a privilege, but worthy of sharing. But I think
also you could ask yourself, Beck, is there an alternative
to center based care that you could choose, like maybe
a family day care, or like nanny sharing, or like
community co ops, occasional care, or even employer supported care.
I've got a friend who has three kids, and she
(29:53):
found that having an O pair, which sounds really bougie,
actually worked best for them financially. They've got a spare
room in there house, and by providing room and board,
they deduct that from what they pay their O pair,
which ends up costing them like two hundred and fifty
bucks a week. Oh, before I had a baby, I
thought that like an O pair, that's what rich people have. Yes,
(30:15):
nanny's rich people, But like you're telling me right now
that if I had my child in full time care
Monday to Friday, nine till five, it's gonna cost me
fifty thousand dollars post tax. Honestly, once I have two
kids or maybe even three, like maybe a nanny makes
more sense.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Again, a lot of financial privilege talking. But we're just
cycling through the options that are there, you know, going
back to this example of my friend, that's way less
than having kids in traditional daycare, kids in traditional daycare
for her to put her kids in that daycare before
the CCS subsidy one hundred and fifty grand a year.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
That's so our ready before.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Real daycare costs more than private school.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Back is outraged.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I can't deal with it. But they've also found that
with a no pair, the kids are being exposed to
less germs. I have a sniffley nose consistently now, so
they're never stuck paying for care that they don't use
when the kids are under the weather. Well, it's yeah,
all those little things about Another thing I want you
to do as well is check with your employer. Will
they allow some flexibility in the days and hours that
(31:23):
you work to help juggle your kids a bit better.
Can you say, maybe work from home or have like
adjusted work hours so you can do daycare pickup next
When you have made your decision and you're like, you
know what daycares for me? Put your child's name down early, Beck,
Oh my god, I did not realize the wait list.
So I put Halvey's name down when I was twenty
(31:46):
weeks pregnant. Twenty week's pregnant.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Great.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
We got a text in July saying hey, there's going
to be a spot in August. It was six months old.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh my god, that's hectic.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Be for real, Like that took almost a year to
get him into daycare and he didn't even exist yet.
Like I didn't know what gender we were having him.
We didn't even have a name. Baby Divine was down
on the weight list. Be for real, But put your
kid's name down early. In a lot of this country,
childcare centers have weight lists, so having your child's name
(32:23):
on a few lists earlier can mean a bit more
flexibility To choose a daycare that suits your lifestyle and
your budget, and then read the fine print for a
childcare service before you sign up and know the terms
and conditions, including any fees and any charges that might
apply if you need to cancel good call and then money. Obviously,
don't forget your sendling CCS forms. Get them in as
(32:46):
early as possible. You're not going to believe this, Beck.
I have heard horror stories of families having to pay
the full childcare fees out of pocket while they're waiting
for their claims to be approved. No back pay, No
back pay because it goes to the childcare center. So
remember how I said, oh wait when we were talking
about how the CCS gets paid to the childcare center.
(33:08):
If you're not approved, the childcare center is going to
invoice you personally, Beck, and you have to pay in full.
And then when the childcare center gets paid, they're like,
no worries, We've put this credit on your account because
they can't give you the cash right now. You might
have a credit, but you've had to pay full.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I see exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
So make sure that you're getting those forms in a
SAP and when the back pay finally does come through,
do a bit of a budget so that you don't
end up in that situation again, but also so that
you don't feel as stung like it's stressful, and I
think it's really important to be aware of that. And
not for you, but like hypothetically speaking, you didn't hear
(33:48):
this from me, But if your claim's taking too long,
I have heard on the grape line that you call them,
you asked to speak to the complaints line, and it
can speed things up. So sometimes in that situation, I
have heard of people getting approval the next day. Sometimes
(34:09):
it does literally pay out to complain. We're not going
to get on the phone and they do it or
threaten or do anything. We're just gonna hollo kind. So
I would really like to talk to your complaints line
and what a coincidence it got escalated. And if you're
financially struggling, be sure to mention it because they might
be able to push your claim through even faster if
(34:30):
you're experiencing financial hardship, which is obviously especially right now,
taken really seriously, honestly from my experience, if you call
first thing in the morning or like right before they close,
they answer pretty quick. Right before they close.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Everybody is on yeah you know what.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I actually don't call places if I'm like, oh it's
like four fifty nah.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, no one's calling it four fifty. If they close
it five.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Or it's like you're sneaky, but be really nice. We
can make this really quick, but like we need to
get paid, so so do we do? Like sorry, but
also not sorry. Fix the system, don't hate the player.
I hate the game exactly, exactly, all right, Well, that
is a very good tip. And look, we know how
tough navigating childcare costs can be. It's not easy, and
(35:16):
at the end of the day, there's actually no one
size fits all approach. I wish there was. But with
good information, I hope that it can become a little
bit more manageable for you and you can feel a
little bit more empowered. And hopefully by me sharing what
I'm up to, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to
do it. But Beck, I've had so many messages from
mums being like, thank you for talking about putting your
(35:38):
kid in daycare early, Like I felt so judged, you know,
I felt like it was a bad mum. Or it
felt like, you know, I was doing the wrong thing
for my kid. Like if that is, you just know.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Harvey loves it. He has the best time.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Beck.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
I dropped him off to daycare this morning. He is
six months old, so like he lights up when he
sees faces sometimes his care and he just went, that's
my friend. He immediately was like, oh, I'm here, I'm
gonna have a good day. Like I just know that
he's probably getting more stimulation than I could give him
(36:13):
at home. And like then when we get home, I
know we can't talk back yet he's only six months old,
but I tell him all about my day and I
ask him about his day, and I just feel like
this is going to really work for us. And I
feel like there's so much judgment in this space.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
My god, moms really copy it, I know, but.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
We're all just doing the best that we can. Like
we're just all out here doing the best for our family,
the best for our community, and trying to also support ourselves.
Were always told, oh, you can't pull from an empty cup,
and then when I say that I'm filling my cup up,
You're like, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I know.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I feel like, if a mom's not emotionally or physically
abusing a child, let them be, let them do.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
If your kid's happy, slagh, they trying to do the best. Also,
I call this like small steps of micro feminism. Next
time you run into a dad and they're like not
with their kids. Be like who's looking after the kids
and just see them squirm.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Yeah really fine, yes, great idea.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
All right, Well, have a good day, guys. We will
see you next week. I hope that this has been
an enlightening.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Chat, certainly for me. Who do you? Absolutely do you?
We support you, you do it a great job. You are.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Have a good week, guys.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Consider your individual circumstances.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
should not be relied upon to make an investment or
financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product,
read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored
towards your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money
are authorized representatives of Money Shoper Pty Ltd ABN three
(37:55):
two one six four nine two seven seven zero eight
afsl all five one two eight nine
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Mm hmm
Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
(00:23):
as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that makes money talk easy and relatable. Just like chatting
with your besties, that's us and if your besties are moms.
This question is probably one that comes up in the
group chat a lot. Is it really worth going back
to work with these childcare costs? It is a tricky one.
I know a lot of our audience are probably feeling
the pin right now. Well, today I'm here with our
(01:18):
resident finance expert and supermom, Victoria Devine.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Supermum is a stretch. I'm like my baby is fed
and clothed and not crying.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Sleigh, that is a winner.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Truly credible. Beck, I am very excited to be here
talking about childcare. This is new to me and I
cannot wait to dive deeper.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I mean, I don't know, I don't have children, but
it just sounds like it's so much gonna be.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Shook with the information that I'm bringing today. You're going
to be like, how in this economy can anyone afford children?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Mmm? Well, I'm excited to hear so v how much
exactly our families spending on childcare.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's not very pretty so on average, Australian families are
spending around seventeen percent of their income on child care. Well,
as you can probably imagine, that is a massive financial
commitment that's forced many parents to make a really hard
decision between work and family life. And for many of them,
childcare is such a big financial strain that impacts literally
(02:16):
everything from weekly grocery budgets to long term saving goals
and living their best life. In places like Sydney. In Melbourne,
full time childcare can set you back back, sit down
anywhere between one hundred and twenty and two hundred and
twenty dollars a day, a day, a day, and Bestie
on this side of the table, I'm spending one hundred
(02:38):
and ninety four dollars a day on childcare a day.
Is so outrage and I'm only sharing that because that's
inner Melbourne. And I feel like when I put on
my Instagram a couple of months before Harvey was due,
because I was really trying to set all my ducks
up and like, you know, pick a day care before
he'd even like gotten here. Basically because even the waitlist
(03:00):
beck are insane, I was asking like how much do
you pay? And it was so wildly different, like some
of them are like, oh, one twenty a day, someone
like literally like two hundred and fifty, like on averages
between one twenty and two twenty a day. But it
varied so much that now I'm like, well, I'm you know,
in a city Melbourne, I'm within that like ten kilometer
bring around to the CBD and I'm paying one hundred
(03:20):
and ninety four dollars a day. And having been a
little bit over the top, I looked at basically every
single deca in my area and that was actually average,
like it wasn't oh the most expensive one that was
just what you pay crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, it's like sometimes that would be more than what
someone makes a day if they were Yeah, and get this,
if you have a permanent position. So I am lucky
enough that Harvey has been given a permanent position. So
we know that he goes two days a week, but
those two days a week it's set aside for him.
But if your child doesn't go because they're sick, you
still have to pay. Really, yeah, you can't just like
(03:55):
call in and be like sorry, like we're not coming
in today. Money in, Like no, no, you're paying for that day.
And even though they probably got sick from being in childcare,
that doesn't.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Matter at all. And I think nothing recently has stung
quite as much as seeing a payment go through for
the days that Harvey hasn't been in his little class. Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I mean, like, I know that childcare workers do deserve
to be paid a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
And so I wrote a whole article in the Sydney
Morning Herald and the Age probably a year ago now,
just being like what the heck. And this was during
my period of time where I was doing all of
my research on my daycare centers. Working out what we
were going to pay for and what that looked like,
and I was horrified. I mean, that's a conversation probably
for another day, because they do deserve to be paid
(04:45):
so much more, and we'll touch on it absolutely so,
because I don't really know what these costs are, Like,
I am quite mortified, but I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
There are reasons for this.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
So there definitely are reasons for this.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Tell me, yeah, what's driving these high costs?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Honestly, A lot of it just comes down to regulation.
So childcare centers have to meet really strict staff to
child ratios, which then obviously varies by child grouping and
affects the price. So right now, Harvey is six months old,
but that means he's got the most level of care
right now, So there's the minimum amount of babies per
(05:20):
child care worker in his room because he can't even
sit up unassisted at this point, Like we can sit up,
then we fall over, so he needs basically someone always
watching him. Whereas you can probably imagine once you get
to like three or four, I won't say they're fully independent,
but like they're happy to go play on their own
and they can get their own toys and whatnot. So
for little ones under two here in Australia, it's one
(05:44):
care for every four children, which obviously drives up costs
to maintain that quality, but also your kids safety, right,
so you've got one person per four children, and as
your kids get older obviously that relaxes. And here in
Australia kids over three can have about ten or eleven
kids per care, depending on your state, which means that
(06:05):
usually your fees will drop a little bit lower, but honestly,
nothing to write home about.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Sure, I assume, like inflation, cost of living going up,
that probably is also a.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Kind of oh my gosh, yes, yeah, oh, I'm looking
at it at the moment. And there's obviously a lot
in the media about more support happening for childcare, but
I can just see it coming. Cares are just going
to increase their prices and pass things onto you, which
I think is crazy. But with basic needs like rent
and utilities and our grocery bills being so much, don't
(06:38):
get me started on the Woolies profit this year, those
costs get passed on, which makes childcare even more expensive.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I see, that's so hectic.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
And some centers beck it's like the wild West in
a way. I won't say there's obviously like a lot
of regulation, but sure. Some childcare centers, like the one
Harvey's privileged enough to go to, is all inclusive, so
like I drop him off in the morning and it
includes his meals, it includes nappies, it includes his formula,
which is really cool. I didn't realize that. Like when
(07:10):
I dropped him off for the first time for orientation,
they were like, what formula is he on? And I
was like, oh, he's on this and they were like,
no worries, We'll buy it and put it to the side. Cool,
And I was like, okay, Like that made it sting
slightly less. I guess that makes it formula's expensive, beck, Yeah,
and that formula for Harvey thirty four dollars a can
and we go through like at least a can a week.
(07:31):
Oh wow, okay, so right, it kind of shaves off
a little bit, the smallest amount. I mean, if they
cut my day care fees in half, I would be
very happy to be wayo formula. But not everybody is
in that lucky position. Some people will probably be like,
V I'm paying what you're paying, and I have to
send nappies to daycare. I have to send formula, I
(07:51):
have to send a packed lunch. Like, as I said,
it can kind of be the wild West. There's no like, oh,
if you charge this much, you have to give this
level of service. While it's you know, obviously very convenient
for me, and on average, it costs more in places
like that than where places where parents supply it. But
I do know from my DMS from when I was
talking about childcare, there are some places that just know
(08:14):
there's such high demand for childcare that they're like, you
guys can provide everything. We know you're still going to
come and we're going to charge through the nose. So
there's a bit of a trade off between convenience and
costs sometimes but not all the time.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, let's talk about like the impact on families. I
assume it's like quite massive. Yeah, it's so.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Stressful, so many parents And I'm in a mother's group
now cool. I don't even know if they know I
have a podcast, but if they do and they happen
to listen to, high heaps of parents still really forced
to cut back on work hours or completely leave the
workforce entirely. Yeah, Beck, when you calculate it out, like thankfully,
between Steve and I, we only do two days a
(08:55):
week daycare if you don't get any subsidies, and we
just going to base it on that one ninety four
that I mentioned before, if Harvey was in full time
daycare Monday to Friday so that I could go back
to work full time, if I was, you know, fully employed,
and I am definitely seeing the privilege that I have
right now being a business owner and it being flexible.
(09:16):
And you know, Beck, if I'm like, hey, Harvey's coming
into the office, You're like, yeah, sick, no worries, Like yeah,
nobody minds. I am so lucky, and I know that's
not the norm. Post tax, that would cost my family
fifty thousand, four hundred and forty dollars a year.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That is literally someone's wage. Imagine you're a single poy.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
In someone's wage, like Beck, that's someone's take home cash.
We're talking an eighty plus thousand dollars salary. And don't
get me wrong, we will talk about subsidies and stuff
because a lot of people get money back, but there
are families out there that you know, one is a
really big bread winner, has a big dog, job, and like,
let's not jump into the well, they're so lucky to
(09:57):
have that income. Like we're not talking about just the
income here, we're talking about it being viable for women
to maintain their careers. It just doesn't make sense for
your wife or your partner or your husband to return
to work if they earn less than that. Totally go, well,
what's the point we're paying through the nose for me
to go to work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
And just insane, Beck, it is insane. I just really
worry about the single parents in the situation because they're
literally what do you do?
Speaker 5 (10:23):
What do?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
You just got to live off zero dollars for it?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
And I mean you will get as a single parent
subsidies and stuff, and we'll get into that, but that
doesn't mean that it doesn't come out of your bank account,
which is something we'll get onto.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Back to career progression, obviously, it impacts that it stalls
your long term career progression and your long term financial stability.
And in fact, there was research that I was reading
recently that said that sixty seven percent of Australian mums
said childcare costs influenced their decision to work less or
not at all right, okay, sixty seven percent. It's important
(10:57):
to also recognize here that not everyone has the life
of choice. So some families parents need to work to
make ends meet. But for those of you who do
have a choice, it's all about weighing up what is
best for you. A really common way that I'm seeing
it being broken down is by comparing the cost of
childcare with what the primary care earns. So once you
(11:17):
subtract those fees, is the remaining income enough to justify working.
Sometimes the number bekad just doesn't add up. And then
the time spent away from your kids, like you just go,
that's not worth the financial return. And I can see
that so much now, like I don't want to be
away from Harvey if I don't have to be yes.
And then if you said, VI, you're not going to
(11:38):
earn that much if you did go back to work,
I'd be like, that's not worth it, Like what are
you talking about? And I know that if you are
a parent, you probably really resonate with that. But before
I was a parent, I think I definitely had the
view of like no, no, no, Like I am forever
a working mum, Like I just know that in my soul.
I need to work to be the best version of me,
(12:00):
and that's true. But that pool to always be closer
to Harvey and be around him is there as well,
and I didn't realize that it would be as strong
as it is. So I can see it being really,
really overwhelming for a lot of families to be like,
I really want my career, but I really love my kids.
But I really want a career. But is it financially
(12:21):
viable to do so? And there's long term impacts, like
if you're out of the workforce, you don't just get
to enter back where you were and have the same
amount of career progression. Ah but Beck, what if we
are looking at all of this the wrong way. We're
going to take a really quick break, and when we return,
I'm going to share why I think this mindset could
(12:41):
potentially use a bit of a shakeup. So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
All right, we are back. Thank you for sticking with us,
but you promise us a hot take before the breakup?
I do a little Yeah. I was really like intrigued,
how could we possibly turn this around?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
All right?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I want to give you guys a bit of a
mindset shift. When it comes to thinking about childcare costs.
As you probably already know, I'm a really big believer
that when you're doing those sums, the cost should actually
be split between both parents, yes, not just the primary care.
So how many times do families sit down and go, okay, cool,
well back, you know, let's pretend you and I had
(13:19):
a baby. It'd be really cute if we did. We way,
what do you earn back? And then what do I earn?
And then you know, the childcare cost gets calculated and
we go, well, beck, you wouldn't be able to earn
that much, so not worth your going to work. Let's
push that back. So not just what the primary care
is earning, but we're sharing the cost, and by sharing
(13:40):
the cost, we're acknowledging that raising children is a joint
effort and that both parents benefit from childcare. I think
so often the primary care is the one that has
to sacrifice, and then the other person is seen as like, oh,
but they're the breadwinner, as though childcare isn't the benefit
for them, when that's not the case. Because there is
(14:02):
a trade off to consider. A career break could obviously
lead to a very significant drop in superannuation contributions. And
missed opportunity for career growth like I was saying before,
and promotions and bonuses and pay rises, and over time,
the gaps in this widens and it affects long term
earnings and your financial security. And when you return to work,
(14:23):
it often means that you start at a lower salary
or like a reduced position, which is another financial penalty.
And these cumulative effects they add up, and they add
up quickly but silently. You don't see them, but they're
adding up, making it really important to weigh the short
term benefit of a break against the potential long term
financial impacts. And it's a very tough call with honestly,
(14:47):
I wish I could tell you, but no perfect answer,
and it really comes down to what's best for your
family and your unique situation. But I want to reframe it.
It's a family cost, not a U cost. It's not
the cost of you leaving the business. Yeah, that's so true.
You know, one hundred and ninety four dollars a day
broken up in my family looks like ninety seven dollars
(15:09):
per head for Steve and I to have a career. Yes,
that's a bit more palatable.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I didn't even think about that that's so funny that
my brain was automatically like, whoever's going back to work
is paying the thing?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
But patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, based on that, I assume this affects women more.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Right, definitely, And like it's not a topic that we're
discussing on shees on the money because it impacts men significantly,
Like it is a topic that we're discussing because it
does impact women more. And women are more likely to
take extended breaks to care for their kids, and so
often they shoulder most of these costs, and that contributes
significantly to the gender pay gap and the subranuation gap
(15:47):
over time. And how many times have you seen my
name pop up on Instagram back because I've gotten in
another fight in the comments section on a post about
the gender pay gap where people are saying it doesn't exist,
fighting the good fight or starting fights with people who
you know when you just go, is this even worth it?
Because you get people who are smart human beings going yeah,
(16:08):
these correct, right, But then the potato who posted the
stuff like, dude, graps not real, Like why are we
fighting with people who you can't change the opinions of no,
And it's.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Also factually really like They're like, show me the research
stends me a link and I'm.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Like, right here, right here, it is right here. I
have put a flashy sign on it. It is right here.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And they're look, that's not real research.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I don't what do you deem is real? The onion like,
I can't. Oh no, I saw that on the Buttudah.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It must be true all Batuda people.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
So I guess Beck back to the conversation at hand.
If you do decide to stay home with the kids,
it's really important to keep these factors in mind when
you're planning for the future. So my favorite thing.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Ever, that's let's do some.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
So say you're getting about ten grand a year in
super Yes, nice. This amount might not seem in isolation
like that much. So while you're not working, contributing might
feel like less of a priority. Like whatever, it's ten grand.
Ten grand's a lot of money. But let's say you
take five years off, because that's the amount of time
(17:16):
that it might take your tiny human being to get
into school. That's fifty thousand dollars in missed super contributions.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Peck.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
True, that's not great, but over five years, it's easy
to go, oh, whatever it was five years. We'll shrug
it off in the short term. But here is why
it matters, and it all has to do with my
favorite thing that's not maths, which is compound interest. Like
compound interesting, it's the money that your money makes. When
your money's made, money like that is very sexy. If
(17:45):
that fifty thousand dollars had a chance to compound over
thirty years, not unreasonable at a very conservative rate of
seven and a half percent, because we all know that
the Australian share market has returned more than nine percent.
Well we can use seven and a half because I
would much prefer under promise over deliver, you know. Oh yeah, yeah,
that's a me thing. It would grow to around four
hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Holy hell, that's so good. It is shocked by this.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But Beck, most women do not retire with four hundred
and fifty thousand dollars. That's abranuation.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's a real problem.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So you're telling me that just by really caring about this, yeah,
we could put women in a better position. We know
that the highest growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness, Beck
are women in their fifties and sixties. You're telling me
that by caring about this, by helping them contribute when
(18:38):
they take career gaps, I could save a lot of
people from going through that. Why aren't more people doing
more stuff about this, That's a great question. So it
could be very worthwhile having your working partner, beck contribute
to your super while you're on that break. Yes, again
a privilege if you have a partner in that situation
and you're not a single mum. But there are lots
(18:59):
of things that you could plan around that if you
were a single parent, Beck, like if you're planning to
become a single parent in the future, contributing a bit
more to your super before you go on leave or
even after. There's just a lot to do, but it
could be very worthwhile looking into that. I think it's
also really worthwhile thinking about ways to upskill while you're
not working. Are you going to re enter the workplace
(19:21):
even more skilled than when you left it? Smart means
smart move though.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, you could just YouTube a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Yeah, And there are plenty of courses and certifications that
you can do online, even at your own pace, to
keep your skills sharp or learn something new. And this
can make you obviously a more attractive candidate when you're
ready to return to work and help aim for those
I guess promotions and pay rises in the future that
you might have missed during your break.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
That's a really good idea of v And then I guess, like,
you know, obviously you will be working full time unless
you have an equal parent. Hopefully they take some of
that off your hands. I mean they should go it
in like all of it's just hardbare. I totally agree. No,
look great in the interviews if you're like, hey, while I.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Was on leave, look what I did. I am a
very motivated person. I'm a very big believer in hiring mums.
Like I have a few mums on the team, and
I just know they're the ones that are going to
get it done back.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh yeah, because they've gone from working twenty four hours
a day.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Back into being like, oh, you only want thirty eight
hours from me, No worry.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Easy, easy.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Also like I just hire a working mom. I mean
I gets a recruitment strategy around hiring a working mum
and giving a work life flexibility to be able to
pick the kids up, go to school, assembly, and then work. Anyway,
we could do a research piece into my business, but
that is not what we're talking about, Beck.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No, that's true. But I do want to know, like
how some ways that families can get support. Yes, so
we were talking before you could claim some So currently
in Australia, the Chugcare Subsidy or the CCS, is available
to families who have a combined income under five hundred
and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
That's so much money. Yeah, So, like I was talking
before about, obviously an individual earning so much that you
don't get the CCS right, and then obviously weighing up
whether it's worth somebody else going back to work. Obviously
that is a very unique situation and that must be nice.
But when we're talking about this, I think we need
to check our own privilege but also kind of keep
(21:12):
our blinkers on it and stay in our own lane.
Like let's say that there is a case study sitting
over here and it's like George and Frankie right, like
we've just made them up and Georgia and so much money,
and Frankie, you know, has a good job, but isn't
going to be able to claim anything. Do you think
it's fair to then say, Beck, well, that woman because
her partner earns bank and like takes home so much money,
(21:36):
should you know, just stay home with the kids, or
should they be spending heaps and heaps and heaps on childcare? Like,
I just don't think that women should have to have
the burden of choosing between either because it's their problem. Like,
I get the conversation. I get the privilege in earning
so much that it's like a financial conversation but also
like a work life balance conversation. But I just still,
(21:57):
at any income level, even if you are so financially secure,
hate the idea that women are still choosing between these
two things. Like it's the nineteen fifties, I know what
the hell Like cool, like your partner owns heaps, but
like I want to pave my own way too. I
want to feel accomplished. I want to feel like a
contributing member to this household. Like I know that it's
(22:20):
not just about the money, but like I want to
feel like a whole person. It's like me, right, beck
I have said before I had a baby and after
I had a I'm a working mum. Yeah I'm not
going to be that mum who is a stay at
home mum. Does that mean I'm less dedicated to my kids.
Absolutely not. But I am the best version of me
when I get to work, and I think other people
(22:40):
in that situation should have the privilege of choice. But
the CCS back to this, is a subsidy that the
Australian government pays directly to your childcare provider to reduce
the fees that you have to pay. So the amount
you receive really depends on your income, the number of
children that you have in care, and the age of
your children, and the type of childcare that you use
(23:03):
in the hours of approved activity that you undertake like
work or approved study. So there is in the CCS
an hourly rate cap that's based on your child's age
and the type of care that they are in. So,
for example, Beck, the hourly rate cap is fourteen dollars
and twenty nine cents for kids under six in center
(23:24):
based care. If your CCS rate is, say, for's sake,
fifty percent, and you were paying for eleven hours of
care at two hundred bucks, uh huh, so eighteen dollars
and eighteen cents per hour, you'd only get fifty percent
of the CCS on the first fourteen dollars and twenty
nine cents per hour and you'd have to pay full
(23:45):
fee for the rest of the time.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Why goddamn minute. I am having trouble absorbing that. So
that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
That is it's nice. I think it's like I'm still
paying full fees on top of that. So there's an
online calculator and I'll make sure that this is in
the show notes if you want to have a play
with it. Not you specifically, Beck, but the community who
it is relevant to. I feel like people are probably
going to think this is really pervy as well. If
you don't have kids, you're like, wait, that's how that
system works.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, But it's.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
At starting Blocks dot gov dot au, which is a
government website about all things childcare, which can help you
estimate your subsidy and how much you will pay based
on specific center costs. Beck. Some proposed policy changes aim
for more affordable care, including a campaign proposing ten dollars
a day care for all Australians, but nothing's finalized yet.
(24:37):
And do you want my two cents? Beck? Of course,
So hold on, let's step back. So say you incur
a cost for your work, you get to claim that
on tax right. Yes, So for me to turn up
at work today, Beck, I had to put my child
into daycare. That's a work cost. Why can't I claim
childcare as a part of my work costs. It's the
(25:02):
cost of going to work, like my husband and I
should be able to And this is not me being greedy.
This is because this is what I want across the
whole country for everybody. Ye Like, I want you to
be able to claim your out of pocket costs, which
we just articulated to you. You're paying fifty percent. Still,
(25:23):
I want you to be able to claim that against
your tax return. I want you to be able to say, well,
this was a cost that I incurred in order for
me to go to work and be a productive member
of society. I should get the tax back on that
if I'm paying for something that is very work related.
I feel like this conversation needs to open up, and
hopefully in the future it becomes like one of those
(25:44):
conversations that we had a couple of years ago about
how we used to get taxed on tampons. Oh obnoxious, Right,
you're like, well, why are we being taxed on that? Yes?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Soon, low down, I'll be like, wow, why couldn't we
claim it. But these costs aren't taxed, as you're saying,
which is there are some other ways that people can
lower these costs. I assume yes there are.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
So first I'm going to tell you something and I'm
going to sound like a broken record, but you need
to do your budget and figure out what subsidy you
are entitled to to help you make the decision that
is right for you. Then I want you to do
your research. So costs for different centers and services are
going to vary greatly within the same suburb. So as
I said before, like my cost was much of a muchness,
(26:30):
but they did range, Like I did go and see
a couple that I was like, okay, Like I am providing,
like you know, formula and nappiers and it's one sixty
a day. But when you calculate it all out, it
all comes out in the wash when you know, adding
things in. But we want to shop around. We want
to make sure that we know what we're paying for
and its relevance in our community. So starting blocks, the
(26:53):
website I mentioned earlier is going to be able to
help you with this. I also want you to weigh
up the price of childcare closer to home versus closer
to work. So if you live in the suburbs, childcare
actually might be cheaper than if you opt for an
inner city service where rent could be factored into the
price that you're paying, right, and having care close to
home instead of your work could actually be convenient too,
(27:16):
if you don't have to go to the office, but
you still want to put your kid into childcare during
the day. Maybe your boss is nice. Unless you work
from home, that's cover, but having a kid at home
not ideal. One of my friend's workplaces has just brought
out this entire policy back side note, and they send
out this big email that obviously I got sent screenshots
of because Tea in the friend group chat of course
(27:38):
of how if you're working from home you're not allowed
to have your kids home at the same time as well.
What isn't that wild?
Speaker 3 (27:44):
What the to allow?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
And there's like so much backlash because I can kind
of understand that if you had a full time parent
working for you, but they were also like full time
caring for a child, you're not going to get the
dedicated hours out of them, give or take. Like there's
a very big conversation about that, but it included like
if your partner was home with the kids. They see
that as too much of a distraction. Isn't that insane?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Wouldn't work for me?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
No, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
If you have the option as well, Beck, you could
ask your support network. But again, that's a privilege that
so many of us in our community now don't have.
Like we just don't have the family support that we
used to have. Could a family member potentially help out,
or if you've got friends who might be able to
help out with childcare? Not everyone can do this, but
we are so lucky. I think you know when you're
(28:34):
just like, I'm married into it. You probably have not
had this thought because you're not married yet. But like
I remember being like one, I've messed up. I've married
into a family of runners.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Oh yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
There's a problem. Like they run for fun on holiday,
on holiday, they run, don't like any type of event
Mother's Day. Wow, we're running the Mother's Day Classic. Sorry,
we can't run a Mother's Day Like my sister in law,
Holy moly, Boston Marathon, Like wow, be for real, like incredible,
she's training so hard. But like it's impressive, you know what,
(29:07):
I make the pancakes at home. But the one thing
that I did marry into was a family with great support. Like,
oh my gosh, Steve's mum, She's like, so do I
get Harvey on Friday? Like? Can I look after him?
You let me know, I'll drive to you and pick
him up. I'm like, you are doing the most, but
that's not something that everybody gets, right, Like that is
(29:30):
absolutely a privilege, but worthy of sharing. But I think
also you could ask yourself, Beck, is there an alternative
to center based care that you could choose, like maybe
a family day care, or like nanny sharing, or like
community co ops, occasional care, or even employer supported care.
I've got a friend who has three kids, and she
(29:53):
found that having an O pair, which sounds really bougie,
actually worked best for them financially. They've got a spare
room in there house, and by providing room and board,
they deduct that from what they pay their O pair,
which ends up costing them like two hundred and fifty
bucks a week. Oh, before I had a baby, I
thought that like an O pair, that's what rich people have. Yes,
(30:15):
nanny's rich people, But like you're telling me right now
that if I had my child in full time care
Monday to Friday, nine till five, it's gonna cost me
fifty thousand dollars post tax. Honestly, once I have two
kids or maybe even three, like maybe a nanny makes
more sense.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Again, a lot of financial privilege talking. But we're just
cycling through the options that are there, you know, going
back to this example of my friend, that's way less
than having kids in traditional daycare, kids in traditional daycare
for her to put her kids in that daycare before
the CCS subsidy one hundred and fifty grand a year.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
That's so our ready before.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Real daycare costs more than private school.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Back is outraged.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I can't deal with it. But they've also found that
with a no pair, the kids are being exposed to
less germs. I have a sniffley nose consistently now, so
they're never stuck paying for care that they don't use
when the kids are under the weather. Well, it's yeah,
all those little things about Another thing I want you
to do as well is check with your employer. Will
they allow some flexibility in the days and hours that
(31:23):
you work to help juggle your kids a bit better.
Can you say, maybe work from home or have like
adjusted work hours so you can do daycare pickup next
When you have made your decision and you're like, you
know what daycares for me? Put your child's name down early, Beck,
Oh my god, I did not realize the wait list.
So I put Halvey's name down when I was twenty
(31:46):
weeks pregnant. Twenty week's pregnant.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Great.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
We got a text in July saying hey, there's going
to be a spot in August. It was six months old.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh my god, that's hectic.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Be for real, Like that took almost a year to
get him into daycare and he didn't even exist yet.
Like I didn't know what gender we were having him.
We didn't even have a name. Baby Divine was down
on the weight list. Be for real, But put your
kid's name down early. In a lot of this country,
childcare centers have weight lists, so having your child's name
(32:23):
on a few lists earlier can mean a bit more
flexibility To choose a daycare that suits your lifestyle and
your budget, and then read the fine print for a
childcare service before you sign up and know the terms
and conditions, including any fees and any charges that might
apply if you need to cancel good call and then money. Obviously,
don't forget your sendling CCS forms. Get them in as
(32:46):
early as possible. You're not going to believe this, Beck.
I have heard horror stories of families having to pay
the full childcare fees out of pocket while they're waiting
for their claims to be approved. No back pay, No
back pay because it goes to the childcare center. So
remember how I said, oh wait when we were talking
about how the CCS gets paid to the childcare center.
(33:08):
If you're not approved, the childcare center is going to
invoice you personally, Beck, and you have to pay in full.
And then when the childcare center gets paid, they're like,
no worries, We've put this credit on your account because
they can't give you the cash right now. You might
have a credit, but you've had to pay full.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I see exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
So make sure that you're getting those forms in a
SAP and when the back pay finally does come through,
do a bit of a budget so that you don't
end up in that situation again, but also so that
you don't feel as stung like it's stressful, and I
think it's really important to be aware of that. And
not for you, but like hypothetically speaking, you didn't hear
(33:48):
this from me, But if your claim's taking too long,
I have heard on the grape line that you call them,
you asked to speak to the complaints line, and it
can speed things up. So sometimes in that situation, I
have heard of people getting approval the next day. Sometimes
(34:09):
it does literally pay out to complain. We're not going
to get on the phone and they do it or
threaten or do anything. We're just gonna hollo kind. So
I would really like to talk to your complaints line
and what a coincidence it got escalated. And if you're
financially struggling, be sure to mention it because they might
be able to push your claim through even faster if
(34:30):
you're experiencing financial hardship, which is obviously especially right now,
taken really seriously, honestly from my experience, if you call
first thing in the morning or like right before they close,
they answer pretty quick. Right before they close.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Everybody is on yeah you know what.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I actually don't call places if I'm like, oh it's
like four fifty nah.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, no one's calling it four fifty. If they close
it five.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Or it's like you're sneaky, but be really nice. We
can make this really quick, but like we need to
get paid, so so do we do? Like sorry, but
also not sorry. Fix the system, don't hate the player.
I hate the game exactly, exactly, all right, Well, that
is a very good tip. And look, we know how
tough navigating childcare costs can be. It's not easy, and
(35:16):
at the end of the day, there's actually no one
size fits all approach. I wish there was. But with
good information, I hope that it can become a little
bit more manageable for you and you can feel a
little bit more empowered. And hopefully by me sharing what
I'm up to, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to
do it. But Beck, I've had so many messages from
mums being like, thank you for talking about putting your
(35:38):
kid in daycare early, Like I felt so judged, you know,
I felt like it was a bad mum. Or it
felt like, you know, I was doing the wrong thing
for my kid. Like if that is, you just know.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Harvey loves it. He has the best time.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Beck.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
I dropped him off to daycare this morning. He is
six months old, so like he lights up when he
sees faces sometimes his care and he just went, that's
my friend. He immediately was like, oh, I'm here, I'm
gonna have a good day. Like I just know that
he's probably getting more stimulation than I could give him
(36:13):
at home. And like then when we get home, I
know we can't talk back yet he's only six months old,
but I tell him all about my day and I
ask him about his day, and I just feel like
this is going to really work for us. And I
feel like there's so much judgment in this space.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
My god, moms really copy it, I know, but.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
We're all just doing the best that we can. Like
we're just all out here doing the best for our family,
the best for our community, and trying to also support ourselves.
Were always told, oh, you can't pull from an empty cup,
and then when I say that I'm filling my cup up,
You're like, don't do that.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I know.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I feel like, if a mom's not emotionally or physically
abusing a child, let them be, let them do.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
If your kid's happy, slagh, they trying to do the best. Also,
I call this like small steps of micro feminism. Next
time you run into a dad and they're like not
with their kids. Be like who's looking after the kids
and just see them squirm.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Yeah really fine, yes, great idea.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
All right, Well, have a good day, guys. We will
see you next week. I hope that this has been
an enlightening.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Chat, certainly for me. Who do you? Absolutely do you?
We support you, you do it a great job. You are.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Have a good week, guys.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Consider your individual circumstances.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
should not be relied upon to make an investment or
financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product,
read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored
towards your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money
are authorized representatives of Money Shoper Pty Ltd ABN three
(37:55):
two one six four nine two seven seven zero eight
afsl all five one two eight nine
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Mm hmm
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