February 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Selena Gomez and her fiancée Benny Blanco have given a joint interview, along with some very interesting photos (if you love feet then this is your lucky day) but are they trying a little too hard to promote their love story?
Plus, Apple Cider Vinegar, the series based on Belle Gibson, has continued to dominate the Netflix charts. But now it has angered the wrong people and they are speaking up about it.
So now it’s time to talk about the real life fallout of Apple Cider Vinegar, from the people portrayed in the show, to the journalists who fell for the lies and even Belle Gibson herself, here’s everything that’s happened since the show premiered.
THE END BITS
Listen:
A Brutally Honest Review Of Apple Cider Vinegar
What REALLY Happened When I Confronted Belle Gibson - Interview with whistleblower
A Brutally Honest Review Of Babygirl
Em Vernem is co-hosting a new Mamamia podcast. BIZ is rewriting the rules of work with no zero generic advice - just real strategies from women who've actually been there. Listen here.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Laura Brodnik & Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Kimberley Braddish
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome to
the Spill your daily pop culture Fixed. I'm Laura Britney
and I'm m Burnham. Should we acknowledge what's happening right now?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So when I'm filming this, we are not in our
usual studio. We are in a meeting room.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We're in Mia Freeman's office with hand held my Well,
it's just weird that we're sitting on a couch together.
We usually sit across a table looking at each other,
and now we're sitting on a couch together. I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Feel weird sitting side by side. I feel waiting for
a bus.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like we're on
a weird first dage? Are you going a first dage?
Your friends fell? Oh god, it's ruined right from the start.
We'll wait for Emily to put her headphones back on.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Back right, friend, I'm back. Can you guys hear me?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I was gonna say, it's like when you're on an
awkward first date and you accidentally go to one of
those restaurants where you're sitting on the same side of
the table that have like the banquet seating.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like that. I like sitting next to my date.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh no, I don't like that at all. Really, we're
having very different experiences right eye contact anyway, if they
can get weird between Emily Knights because we're closer than
we normally are on the show today. So Apple Cider
Vinegar on Netflix has become a worldwide sensation. It was
obviously number one Australia when it launched, it was number
five worldwide. It's been climbing since then, which is interesting
(01:35):
to see a lot of international people hear the story
of Bell gibbson for the first time. So since the
series has come out, which is obviously a fictionalized version
of the Bell Gibson story but has a lot of
very true elements in there, and since those true elements
have come out and people have delved into the story,
there has been a lot of real life fallout from
(01:55):
the series. A lot of people involved have come out
and a lot of them are very angry. So we're
going to get into all that because there's so much
to unpack. But first you have something you want to share.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Something a bit different. Selena Gomez and her fear Beyonce
Benny Blanco, who's also a very rich producer, have just
dropped a few big revelations about their careers and relationships
in a combined interview for Interview magazine. Right off the bat,
the interview was accompanied by a photo shoot, which is
how I found the interview.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
They're going to be mean to me, and.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
No, I won't be mean. I'll be quite honest. Okay,
the photos are subper, They're not great.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh god, they look good together.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think the person who was in charge of the
wardrobe hate Selena Gomez.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Can I just say you didn't like their engagement photo
shoot either? And they had the taco bell and the
fake picnic set and the fake trees behind them. You
just don't like this couple. You don't like love is
what I'm thinking about you.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I want them to succeed, and I don't think anyone
else does.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, look a few people are rooting against them. It's
sure to say. Now you're one of them and leading
the charge. I think this interview because it's so centien
on their relationship. It's almost like they're trying to win
the public overright.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I don't know. I think they're trying trying to find
their couple shtick because I think they want a very
public stick as them two together, and I don't think
they nailed it. One of the photos in the photo
shoot is just a photo of him with Selena Gomez,
his feet on his face.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I mean they might be into that. Most men are
very into feats.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I don't think when we do these photo shoots, not
about what you're into. It's about what we're into. And
a lot of people went into that. I can tell
you they right out. Anyway, back to the interview, back
what we're here for. So one of the big revelations
was that they've actually known each other for years. They
met when she was on Disney in twenty thirteen, when
she was around sixteen years old. And it was really
(03:49):
interesting that part because the way he talks about her,
which shows that I do love love, is like the
most admirable, respectful way I've ever heard a celebrity man
talk about his partner.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh that's nice, he's so well. There was this one
part anyway, Okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Not sorry to backtrack there this one part where he
described her as his as his heroine and Xanax combined.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Oh that's I guess, cute and troubling in some situations.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
But then he admitted that he was terrified she'll wake
up one day and change her mind about him.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well, I understand why he thinks that, because when they're
everyone's tay. Yeah, exactly. When they're together, they seem very
in love. But then you know, at award shows there've
been jokes about him that he asked a genie for
a wish and it was Selena Gomez. So many people
are like, funny, he was funny. All the comments and
their pictures are like, what does she see in him?
(04:43):
He's so ugly. He's not ugly at all. Also, as
we know, men can get away with anything. He's got
a good personality. He treats her like a human being.
The bar is so low. And also he's rich, and
he's rich and he's like quite powerful. But in the industry, yeah, exactly.
If you look at all the comments under the photos
and videos that they post, so many people are saying
things like he proposed to her so quickly because he
(05:05):
wants to lock it down and like not give her
a chance to escape. People are saying he should be
so happy to she even looked at him in the
first place, And that's why I think they're doing and
like people like other celebrities and comedians make jokes about them,
I think that's why they're doing this, almost like damage control,
and it's literally they have done nothing except that people
think that physically they look mismatched.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, And I think they kind of alluded to those
rumors in the actual interview, because there's a lot of
her saying how much she liked him first, Like, there
was a part where he like said that he had
no idea that he was even introducing her to his
friends today, and he was like, oh, I had no idea.
And a big thing they revealed in this interview was
that they're working on an album together that comes out
(05:47):
next month. It's titled I said. It's titled I said
I Love you first, which is she was one who
said she loved him. Oh that's cute, great, nice, and
great news for people who like Selena Gomez's music. But
he's obsessed with her. He said that he loved her
voice and that she had quote top three tones, which
makes her easily recognizable. I don't know what top three.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Tone means to do with like the tone of her
voice and the control that she has over.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, and I think it's about how if you hear
a Selena Gomez song, you instantly know it's her. You
don't ask is that a Selena Gomes song? Which is
surprising because it's been a few times where I've gone,
is that a Selena Gomez song?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Fun fact, can you name a Selena Gomez song? Come
on your her target demo? Your her target demo? Wait,
you're the right age for her? Can keep my hands
to myself? That's what's it called?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Can't keep my hands myself?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Okay, I don't know the I'm just saying. I know
she's a very successful musician, but I don't think her
music has really translated to being like I.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Don't think her music has contributed as much to a
success as her acting has.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah. I don't mean this to be mean, but we
did an episode many years go on The Spill talking
about her career and we were talking about how she's
a star without a brand because prior to only meners
in the building, it wasn't like any of her acting
roles were like that is Selena Gomez's thing like that
is her character, that is her role, and same with
her music. It was successful and people liked her, but
like her music hasn't had the longevity and hasn't changed
(07:15):
pop culture and hasn't been critically acclaimed. It just is
an extension of her that her fans like. So people
just like the existence of her and not her work,
which is also like a credit to her. Like people
love her that much and she's one of the most
followed people on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, Christianna Ronaldo for yees, people love her. But the
whole interview was like just very interesting. At the first
public I think they've done together after announcing their engagement,
you don't get any news about how the engagement took
place or like the background of that. They said they
wanted to leave that story for when they have kids
to tell them, which is kind of boring.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Like I was like, come on, well, it's because they
got called out for doing it on a film set,
which is kind of also romantic.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
But I want to know more about the film set.
I would love to be engaged on the film set
and even though I have nothing to do with it.
But the whole interview is out, we'll link it in
our show notes. It's quite good. There's also a part
where they made the made the interview listen to a
whole song from Relia. I just want to be a
fly on up ball of him just having to look
engaged while listening to a song for the first time
(08:15):
that's played on it and then.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
He's scrambling to think of something to say it. Afterwards,
he goes, I can tell that is Selena Gomez. You're right.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
He was like, that was good. I was fully invested
in that. I'm like, I freaking hope. So anyway, great interview.
I'm being really mean. Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So Apple Side of Vininger premiered a few weeks ago
on Netflix. It's safe to say, judging by the bit
of data that Netflix has released, that most people who
subscribe to that service have already binged those episodes and
binged them the whole six episodes in the first week,
and it's led a lot of people to deep dive
into the history of Belle Gibson a bit more, but
(08:52):
also the supporting characters in the story, so Clive, her partner,
who's also her partner in real life. Well, actually, last
year was reported they had broken up so, but then
friends have said that they're still together. So again with
Bell Gibson, we'll never know, and diving into the supporting
characters there and one character who has had the most
conversation around her after Bell Gibson is the character of
(09:15):
Miller Blake, who is inspired by an Australian woman by
the name of Jessica ames Co who was known as
the Wellness Warrior.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, the story is so sad because even though miller
Blake's character is meant to be a depiction for a
lot of those I guess alternate medicine seeking people, that
whole influencer generation that started just after Instagram was made.
They said that her character was made up of a
lot of them, but it's pretty obvious it was just
jess Aimes Go.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, it's such an interesting choice. And I guess it's
so different with Belle Gibson because this series is very
much based on The Woman who Fooled the World, which
was the book that the two journalists who originally broke
the story of her not donating the money and then
her wellness lies wrote after their investigation. And also they
have factual things like the sixty minutes Interview that they
(10:07):
can use, and it's so well documented about the li
Belle Gibson told and the appearances that she did, and
the people have spoken out, so that's why they could
call her Bell in the series and use those moments
with jess Ain's co that's obviously a little bit different
because she spoke about having cancer, and she did have cancer,
and she was very beloved by the people that followed her,
(10:28):
and obviously there's been a lot of backlash after her
death of people saying that she was promoting an unhealthy
way to treat an illness. But it is a different
situation of using her likeness. So that's why she's one
of the few people on the show who has her
name change from Jessica Ain's code Tamilla Blake. And it's
interesting because the creative team behind Apple Side of Vinegar
have said over and over again that they just used
(10:51):
HER's inspiration, but once they got into the writing room,
they're like, we created a fictional character. We created her
from our own imaginations and from other stories, and she's
just an amalgamation of so many people.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But just like that slogan, it's a lie. It's not
a true story.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
But then the thing is it's all well and good
to say that, but when you watch the series, it's
beat for beat. Like they even show the same magazine
she worked at in real life. She had the exact
same cancer exactly, the exact same name of her blog,
like it's her. Yeah, they have reimagined like different photo
shoots that she did and put those on Timilla's.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Character, the same family dynamic exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, the story of her family is the biggest giveaway
because they chose to have her mother as Jessica Ainscow's
mother was diagnosed with They changed it from breast cancer
to bow cancer in the show, but her mother was
diagnosus never know. Yeah, like they make one little change,
but they've used her same family dynamic of a similar
amount of time that she survived after diagnosis, how she
(11:46):
talked about her illness, the books she wrote in the
Speaker funeral. Yeah, like that is like almost a beat
for beat of what really happened. And so they've taken
this woman's story and put it into the show and
are now saying it's not completely based on her when
it very obviously is.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, And her dad Cole has actually come out to
speak against her portrayal. In the show, saying it was
extremely inaccurate. He said, continue linking Jess's name to Belle
is appalling. Jess doesn't deserve her legacy to be tarnished
by this. He was particularly upset about how the show
alluded that Jess and Belle were quite close and in
(12:24):
constant contact, to the point where they could have been friends.
He said that they didn't know each other, that Jess
wasn't friends with her, and that Belle just showed up
to her funeral just to promote her own profile, not
for any other reason. He also says that it was
inaccurately depicted how Jess was died. So Jess actually passed
away ten years ago. This month it marks her death.
(12:47):
It's so so sad. And he said that she had
actually passed away to complications from radiation therapy, not from
her actual cancer.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, which is a very interesting statement to make.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It also said she was so intelligent and that he
was completely on board for her journey, whereas like the
dad in the show is completely against it from the
get go, and it's quite upset, and he said that
it feels like that they just made her someone who
didn't go through conventional medicine because she just didn't want to,
whereas that wasn't the case at all. It was actually
(13:19):
quite a grim diagnosis she was received and after all
her research and stuff, that's the roots she went through
and that's the route that he supported her with.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, exactly. I mean in such a complicated situation, and
the fallout from Apple Cided Vinegar. For the people who
were involved, whether it's the people who donated money to
Bell Gibson, all the people that she promised money to
and now the family of Jesse ains Co, the fallout
I think has been quite horrific for a lot of people.
It's interesting too, though, because I don't want to get
too much into the semantics of her diagnosis because we
(13:50):
basically don't have that information available and it is private.
But at the same time, when you look back at
a lot of the speaking engagements she did, the interviews
she did, whether she was talking about her own health
or not, she was pushing a form of treating cancer
that is proven not to work and that could have
been dangerous for any time, harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
She was drinking juice in just every hour and like
multiple coffee and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Exact day exactly, and not that I think now she
deserves to be called out or like villainized in a
Netflix show or anything like that. But I just think
it's important to separate the two things of like, yes,
we might not have the full story about her from
a Netflix show, which is fair enough, but also a
lot of the media that she did is very harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It is it's hard to talk about, but it's so
true because, as you said, we don't know the complications
of like her medical history, Like she probably genuinely thought
that this was the only route that was available to
her that she went through, and she believed that that
had cured her for two years before the cancer came back.
But it's one thing doing that and going down this
route versus promoting this as a way to cure cancer.
(14:54):
Well exactly Belle did even though she didn't have cancer.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, exactly, So that they are two very different stories
and at the same time, like just did monetize it
to an extent or at least kind of built a
platform off it. At the same time, I really understand
why her family is this upset, especially because it's been
ten years since her death and there would be a
lot of feelings and emotions with that anniversary coming up,
and they've been living with that loss for the last
ten years. And now to have people googling her names
(15:21):
and her photo, her real life photo of like Jess,
not just the actress Alicia Deennon Caerry who played her,
is across so many websites. It's up there next to
Bell Gibson, and.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It shows how influential media can be. Like even I
said that when we did our brutally honest review of
Apple Cider Vinegar, Miller Blake was not a likable character.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, I didn't think she was likable, but I very
much felt for her, Like I don't think they were
trying to put her out there as a villain or
anything like that in the show. If anything, they were
trying to show that Belle was doing it for not
just the money and the lives, but to feel loved
and accepted. And you see Miller like she one hundred
percent believes what she's doing is the correct thing, that
she wants those juices out there, even though everyone tells
(16:02):
her this is not the best, it's not going to
make you money, but she doesn't care because she actually
thinks those juices are going to kill people, which is
very in line with the Jeff Ain's Co's way of
thinking of Like I want to tell people this because
I believe it's true to the point in this series
where you see Miller even sacrifice her own mother's health,
like she's so sure that.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I was so unlikable, which jess Ainsko's dad Cole, was like,
that's inaccurate, Like she didn't do that, like her mom
chose that route herself.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, it's so hard because the thing is Netflix and
the creators behind this series. You really can't just say,
oh no, no, it's not based on her when you
used her entire life as plot points for the show,
and then to come out and say that, and also
with her husband at the time, because I think he's
spoken out about it as well.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, he and her best friend have also spoken out
against Netflix, saying how inaccurate so many of the things,
but the main one that they keep talking about was
that she wasn't that close with Belle Gibson.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, but I don't think the show betrayed them as
being overly close. If anything, they just think they.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Did in a way where they made Miller look like
she was obsessed with Belle, like that was very much
evident in the show.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
A little bit the other ways that you saw that
Belle thought she was friends with Miller and she had
this very intense parasocial relationship with her and because they
were trading messages. But then when she meets Miller for
the first time at that event and Miller can't place
her and she's talking to everyone, that's when she has
the realization that I don't know, I'm just another commented
to her, like she actually doesn't care about me, and
(17:31):
that kind of spirals Belle, and then Miller really comes
out against her as like very you know, angry and vindictive,
and so much of that is about Chanelle because she
was Milla's childhood friend and it starts working for Belle.
But you don't really see Belle and Miller interact that
much in the show in terms of like being friends,
apart from when they're at the awards and they have
that quick interaction. You more see them being like parasocial,
(17:55):
and then you see them have these interactions and then
they go to kind of almost being enemies.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, which which again didn't happen. No no, no, Well,
if anything, Belle was probably thought that Miller was an
enemy and Miller was like, I don't even know who
you are. That would have been the most accurate thing.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
What we know from jess Ainscoe's manager who gave interviews
after her death, and she was saying that Jessica only
met Bell Gibson once at a conference and Belle came
up to her, and apart from that, they followed each
other on Instagram. You know, you just have Instagram. You
like each other's stuff, but you don't like talk offline.
They had that relationship. But then Belle really did come
to her funeral and cause a huge scene which is
(18:31):
depict cra So one of the other people that is
really having to come back into the Belle Gibson fray
in a very intense way at the moment is journalist
Tara Brown, because she is the one who conducted that
very infamous twenty fifteen sixty minutes interview with Belle Gibson,
(18:53):
which not only has become one of the most viral
pieces of media around the Bell Gibson story, but also
a moment that they re enact almost word for word
in Apple Cider Vinegar.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, and they didn't change her name either, No, no, no,
there was like real Tara Brown.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You don't have to protect people's identities when your work
from something that's in the public eye. And also, you know,
it's an incredible piece of journalism from Tara Brown and
so much work went into that, so you'd want to
keep her name on it. So she took part in
a new documentary called Dangerous Lies Unmasking Bell Gibson, which
was on Channel nine this week, but you can also
watch on nine Now catch Up. She's also been doing
(19:29):
a lot of different interviews talking about it, and one
of the kind of interesting things I thought is like
what happened before and after the interview and how Belle
Gibson's demeanor changed. So when you see sort of the
beginning of the interview, you see that Bell Gibson seems
quite happy and relaxed, and you know there's people on
set being like, I like you jump a bell and
she's like thanks, and it's all nice. It's like she
(19:52):
has no idea what's really happening. Obviously on Apple side
of Vinegar, with Caitlyn Diva playing Belle, they make it
look very calculated of her demanding the money before the
interview go into her account, and it's another piece of
the puzzle to her of how she's going to get
money to sustain this lifestyle while her business is failing.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I also thought it was really interesting that the figure
it was like seventy five K that they were giving
her for the interview in the show, they made it
so similar to the figure of like the family she
owed money to charities. I was like, that's so interesting
because everyone I think sitting there was like, you better
give that money to that little boy.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know she and we know she definitely didn't do that,
hasn't given any money back. So what Tara Brown has
said about the interview since then in a number of
different interviews and in this documentary is that it started
off quite okay, but the more they kind of pushed
with the questioning, the more agitated and angry Belle Gibson got, which,
as you can understand from a point of view, like
(20:48):
if you're having to like kind of answer it to
your lives, you would get very upset about it. But
it's just so interesting that it seems that she was
quite unaware of that it was going to go that way,
even though she knew she had lied, which just adds
to the layer of the question around her over the
years is how much it is calculated and how much
of it in her own mind? Did she really believe? Yeah,
like she obviously did know she was lying, but it's
(21:10):
like how much of her to.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The point of like couldn't even tell her like her
own age?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, actually, how old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I've always been raised as being currently a twenty six
year old?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
How old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Well, I live knowing as I've always known that I
would be twenty six.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Okay, Belle, I've this is a really really simple question.
How old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I believe that I'm twenty six.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I have.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Two birth certificates, and I've had my name change four times.
The identity crisis there is big, but that was my
normal when I was growing up, Tara that what.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Do you know the truth to be?
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Now, that's probably a question that we'll have to keep
digging for because it's not something I've ever understood or
had answers around.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So when you needed to file some financial documents, how
did you choose the birthdate you gave?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
If you don't know, that's my most recent deep Pole paper,
which has the younger of the age and the most
recent of the name right.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So currently then, according to those documents, you're twenty three.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, I've always believe as I've always known, And Tara's.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Like, I believe I'm twenty yix.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
But are you?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
This is a simple question. This is not the hard question.
There is a moment where she got very agitated in
the interview Tara bound has said where she said she
felt belittled. She said that she felt very attacked and
a lot of it was to do around her asking
about her brother's diagnosis. But what's also interesting is that
obviously in the interview, and we've seen this part where
they keep saying like where are the medical records, Like
(22:54):
you say you've had cancer, you said you've had a stroke,
you said you've had all these like where are all
these medical records? And she can't give them. And then
apparently afterwards she did give Tara Brown the sixty minutes
team some documentation, like she willingly gave them this documentation.
And in the letter and the documents which were dated
before the whole pantry app was launched and all of
(23:15):
that was launched. In the documents, it says from her
medical team, you are completely well, like it's a big
document but that's what it says, it says you are well,
you don't have cancer, and so she gave them that.
So it's almost like she dug her Engrave in a
way because she handed over the documentation that said I
knew I wasn't sick and I knew I didn't have
cancer before I built this whole system, which is very different.
(23:37):
She talks about the.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Internet kind of confessed roughight at the end.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Afterwards she gave them the documentation.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Why didn't they use that in the interview.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, it came afterwards when they were trying to get
the bits and pieces. Yeah, so obviously there's a lot
of moving parts the sixty minutes into you in the
investigation they did and what they followed up. But yeah,
that's something that's come out since then, is that she
did have documents to prove her diagnosis. It just proved
that the diagnosis was your healthy and she handed it over.
Even afterwards, they were saying that a producer drove her
(24:06):
home and she kind of seemed okay, like she was
just not aware of what happened, which.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You see Caitlin Diva play so well, right, like just
unaware of how many lives she is destroyed. Yeah, and
just being like knowing about it but not thinking that
it's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, she's the worst kind of girl boss. Towards the
end in the Apple Side of Vinegar series where they're
sitting on the couch eating pasta after everything has happened,
and she's like, you is just gluten free and he's
just like shut up, like absolutely, don't bring that up
right now. But then she is, we need to go
somewhere where you don't get punished for startup culture, where
they don't try and tear people down, and it's like, yeah,
in her head, she does think that she's being torn
(24:42):
down for being a self starter not lying about her
cancer diagnosis. And that's the interesting thing about Bell Gibson
is like she obviously knows she lied, but how much
of it does she believe in her own mind? Which
I think is very interesting. So yeah, the more you
care about the mechanics that interview and what went on
behind the scenes, the more interesting it is. And I've
seen a few other different publications come out and either
(25:04):
admit fold or then talk about what it was like
when they interviewed Bell Gibson. And one interesting post and
article I've seen is from Peppermint Magazine, which is a
publication I follow, and this article is entitled Belle Gibson
A Spoonful of Vinegar. It talks about having Bell Gibson
on the cover of their spring issue in twenty fourteen,
and it starts off by saying, accountability can be uncomfortable,
(25:26):
but I can tell you what feels worse living with
an apology you've held on too for over a decade.
Watching Apple's Side of Vinegar starring Caitlyn Diva on Netflix
this past week has brought up a cascade of emotions.
And then they go on to say that they kind
of give it behind the scenes how they decided that
Belle was going to be on the cover as the
part of the Food for Thought main feature. They said,
we were enamored with Belle as everyone else. She was charismatic,
(25:49):
confident in oh so inspiring. And this is where it
gets kind of interesting about what it was like to
deal with her before all of this came out. That
was a lie, and that in this article they write
about the fact they sent her a list of interview
questions and they asked her to talk about her app
and her community. And then they said that the answers
that came back were a little disappointing, and they were
(26:10):
confers us because she had only spoken about the technical
aspects of the app and nothing about her story or
her community, and her answers had no heart and soul.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Which she kind of saw that in the show, right,
you saw her like, especially with the book Dealer, how
she wanted to remove her name from it completely and
not have it so she wanted it to be the
pantry by the pantry. Yeah, and she didn't want to
talk about her cancer journey at all.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah. It's like when she realized how big the lie
was getting and how she started doing all these interviews
and covers and TV spots and they were doing all
this press around the book is then she kind of
almost wanted to remove herself from the narrative because she
could sense people were getting too close. And it's interesting
because they say then they had to go back to
her and say like, hey, can you put some more
(26:53):
information in here, basically saying we can't make a cover
out of this. Then they say, then her answers came back,
and they were full of emotion and full of these
beautiful declarations, and they said, like, we'll give her. One
thing is that she was great with words, like once
she got going and she got into her lie, she
really believed it. So they put out the cover story
and that was around the team time that, as we
(27:14):
see in the show, she put up that very infamous
photo of the pink balloons on her Instagram and talked
about her cancer coming back. So we see that in
the show that happened in real life. And at the
time that was when the magazine was about to come
out with her on the cover, and they say in
this article Peppermint Magazine that they offered to not run
the cover, and she said, no, no, it's my legacy.
(27:35):
I want you to put it out. And then she
told the world that she was going to step away
from the spotlight, step away from the public eye, and
just spend time with her son, because this new diagnosis
meant that she didn't have a lot of time left.
And obviously every person who'd interviewed her, everyone had her team.
Her fans were also supportive and like, yes, do that.
And then they said when the magazine came out, they
(27:58):
contacted Bell and she showed them photos where she had
the magazine in la at the Apple offices, and she
was seeing them photos being like, yes, love the cover.
I've got the magazine here, it's on the table at Apple.
And they were like, well, hang on, like, aren't you dying.
I'm paraphrasing now like you said you were dying. You're
spending time with your son. But they said it was
very It was comfortable for them because they knew what
(28:19):
the world for but they knew she was in Apple
in LA and it was just one of those times
of sort of seeing like how a publication was dealing
with her behind the scenes. So I think there's so
many people at the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's like you have that gut feeling you know something's wrong,
but you can't just you just can't pin it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think there's so many people now,
Like I keep seeing posts from people who had photos
with her at events saying like I like reposting them
and saying I didn't know. So many outlets now backtracking
on their interviews or signs or something they have to spotted. Well, well,
actually the last time she was spotted. Obviously, everyone at
the moment has been chasing Belle Gibson for an interview
(28:57):
for information, and every story I read about Apple Sided.
Viinga says at the bottom, we have reached out to
Bell Gibson for comment and heard nothing back, so she's
really keeping her head down. People say she's furious. It's
hard to say because no one's like, there's no credible
sources that we're talking to around her. But in February
twenty twenty four, so February last year, a reporter from
a current affair approached Bell Gibson at the petrol station.
(29:20):
This is one of the last times she was spotted
and asked why she hadn't paid a cent of her fines,
and she responded, have some humanity. I haven't paid things
because I can't afford to. Well, she probably has no money,
but that twenty five k, well, that's the thing. During
the whole court case, she went on a very luxurious
holiday overseas holiday and photographers and journalists were waiting at
(29:43):
the airport when she landed, and she was very angry
that they were harassing her. And when she was asked
about it in court, she said that Clive had paid
for it. And when they said what does Clive do,
she said, I don't know. They said, where does Clive
get his money? She's like I don't know, to be fair,
that's like me with every matter. So at this point
in time, she hasn't paid her fines. But Victorian Premierge
just into Alan last week confirmed that Consumer Affairs are
(30:06):
now like really pursuing the matter. I think it's a
lot of high now, so we'll see. But yeah, there's
been a lot of fallout from Apple side of Vinegar
and a lot of families talking about the money they
never got and like what happened to their families and
you know all that sort of stuff, and how people
didn't want to like help them out because they thought
they had been part of the trick, the Bell Gibson trick,
(30:27):
whereas they were just people with sick kids who wanted
to like take this help from this woman who offered
it to them. So between like the journalists who were
telling their stories and the family of jesse Ain's co
and the people who are involved in it, and even
like for Bell Gibbson herself, like the fallout from the
show has been immense, but hopefully some good will come
of it in a way in terms of just highlighting
(30:49):
that what you see online isn't real.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, thank you so much for listening to this bill today.
If you haven't already, please listen to our broodly honest
review of Apple Side of Vinegar. We will link it
in our show notes, or you can just scroll back
and see what else you miss. Also, Mum and mea
podcast true crime Conversations, is dropping an interview which in
their mccauliffe she was the real life whistleblower who first
(31:11):
exposed Belle Gibson's lives, and she shares some exclusive details
about confronting Belle, uncovering the truth, and her thoughts on
being portrayed in the new series that is dropping tomorrow.
We'll put a link to that episode in our show notes.
The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradish with sound production
by Scott Stronik and we'll be back here in your
podcast feed at three pm tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Bye bye.
So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma
Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that
this podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome to
the Spill your daily pop culture Fixed. I'm Laura Britney
and I'm m Burnham. Should we acknowledge what's happening right now?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So when I'm filming this, we are not in our
usual studio. We are in a meeting room.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We're in Mia Freeman's office with hand held my Well,
it's just weird that we're sitting on a couch together.
We usually sit across a table looking at each other,
and now we're sitting on a couch together. I don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Feel weird sitting side by side. I feel waiting for
a bus.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like we're on
a weird first dage? Are you going a first dage?
Your friends fell? Oh god, it's ruined right from the start.
We'll wait for Emily to put her headphones back on.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Back right, friend, I'm back. Can you guys hear me?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I was gonna say, it's like when you're on an
awkward first date and you accidentally go to one of
those restaurants where you're sitting on the same side of
the table that have like the banquet seating.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I like that. I like sitting next to my date.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh no, I don't like that at all. Really, we're
having very different experiences right eye contact anyway, if they
can get weird between Emily Knights because we're closer than
we normally are on the show today. So Apple Cider
Vinegar on Netflix has become a worldwide sensation. It was
obviously number one Australia when it launched, it was number
five worldwide. It's been climbing since then, which is interesting
(01:35):
to see a lot of international people hear the story
of Bell gibbson for the first time. So since the
series has come out, which is obviously a fictionalized version
of the Bell Gibson story but has a lot of
very true elements in there, and since those true elements
have come out and people have delved into the story,
there has been a lot of real life fallout from
(01:55):
the series. A lot of people involved have come out
and a lot of them are very angry. So we're
going to get into all that because there's so much
to unpack. But first you have something you want to share.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Something a bit different. Selena Gomez and her fear Beyonce
Benny Blanco, who's also a very rich producer, have just
dropped a few big revelations about their careers and relationships
in a combined interview for Interview magazine. Right off the bat,
the interview was accompanied by a photo shoot, which is
how I found the interview.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
They're going to be mean to me, and.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
No, I won't be mean. I'll be quite honest. Okay,
the photos are subper, They're not great.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh god, they look good together.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think the person who was in charge of the
wardrobe hate Selena Gomez.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Can I just say you didn't like their engagement photo
shoot either? And they had the taco bell and the
fake picnic set and the fake trees behind them. You
just don't like this couple. You don't like love is
what I'm thinking about you.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I want them to succeed, and I don't think anyone
else does.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, look a few people are rooting against them. It's
sure to say. Now you're one of them and leading
the charge. I think this interview because it's so centien
on their relationship. It's almost like they're trying to win
the public overright.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I don't know. I think they're trying trying to find
their couple shtick because I think they want a very
public stick as them two together, and I don't think
they nailed it. One of the photos in the photo
shoot is just a photo of him with Selena Gomez,
his feet on his face.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I mean they might be into that. Most men are
very into feats.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I don't think when we do these photo shoots, not
about what you're into. It's about what we're into. And
a lot of people went into that. I can tell
you they right out. Anyway, back to the interview, back
what we're here for. So one of the big revelations
was that they've actually known each other for years. They
met when she was on Disney in twenty thirteen, when
she was around sixteen years old. And it was really
(03:49):
interesting that part because the way he talks about her,
which shows that I do love love, is like the
most admirable, respectful way I've ever heard a celebrity man
talk about his partner.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh that's nice, he's so well. There was this one
part anyway, Okay, I'm.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Not sorry to backtrack there this one part where he
described her as his as his heroine and Xanax combined.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Oh that's I guess, cute and troubling in some situations.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
But then he admitted that he was terrified she'll wake
up one day and change her mind about him.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Well, I understand why he thinks that, because when they're
everyone's tay. Yeah, exactly. When they're together, they seem very
in love. But then you know, at award shows there've
been jokes about him that he asked a genie for
a wish and it was Selena Gomez. So many people
are like, funny, he was funny. All the comments and
their pictures are like, what does she see in him?
(04:43):
He's so ugly. He's not ugly at all. Also, as
we know, men can get away with anything. He's got
a good personality. He treats her like a human being.
The bar is so low. And also he's rich, and
he's rich and he's like quite powerful. But in the industry, yeah, exactly.
If you look at all the comments under the photos
and videos that they post, so many people are saying
things like he proposed to her so quickly because he
(05:05):
wants to lock it down and like not give her
a chance to escape. People are saying he should be
so happy to she even looked at him in the
first place, And that's why I think they're doing and
like people like other celebrities and comedians make jokes about them,
I think that's why they're doing this, almost like damage control,
and it's literally they have done nothing except that people
think that physically they look mismatched.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, And I think they kind of alluded to those
rumors in the actual interview, because there's a lot of
her saying how much she liked him first, Like, there
was a part where he like said that he had
no idea that he was even introducing her to his
friends today, and he was like, oh, I had no idea.
And a big thing they revealed in this interview was
that they're working on an album together that comes out
(05:47):
next month. It's titled I said. It's titled I said
I Love you first, which is she was one who
said she loved him. Oh that's cute, great, nice, and
great news for people who like Selena Gomez's music. But
he's obsessed with her. He said that he loved her
voice and that she had quote top three tones, which
makes her easily recognizable. I don't know what top three.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Tone means to do with like the tone of her
voice and the control that she has over.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, and I think it's about how if you hear
a Selena Gomez song, you instantly know it's her. You
don't ask is that a Selena Gomes song? Which is
surprising because it's been a few times where I've gone,
is that a Selena Gomez song?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Fun fact, can you name a Selena Gomez song? Come
on your her target demo? Your her target demo? Wait,
you're the right age for her? Can keep my hands
to myself? That's what's it called?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Can't keep my hands myself?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Okay, I don't know the I'm just saying. I know
she's a very successful musician, but I don't think her
music has really translated to being like I.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Don't think her music has contributed as much to a
success as her acting has.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah. I don't mean this to be mean, but we
did an episode many years go on The Spill talking
about her career and we were talking about how she's
a star without a brand because prior to only meners
in the building, it wasn't like any of her acting
roles were like that is Selena Gomez's thing like that
is her character, that is her role, and same with
her music. It was successful and people liked her, but
like her music hasn't had the longevity and hasn't changed
(07:15):
pop culture and hasn't been critically acclaimed. It just is
an extension of her that her fans like. So people
just like the existence of her and not her work,
which is also like a credit to her. Like people
love her that much and she's one of the most
followed people on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, Christianna Ronaldo for yees, people love her. But the
whole interview was like just very interesting. At the first
public I think they've done together after announcing their engagement,
you don't get any news about how the engagement took
place or like the background of that. They said they
wanted to leave that story for when they have kids
to tell them, which is kind of boring.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Like I was like, come on, well, it's because they
got called out for doing it on a film set,
which is kind of also romantic.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
But I want to know more about the film set.
I would love to be engaged on the film set
and even though I have nothing to do with it.
But the whole interview is out, we'll link it in
our show notes. It's quite good. There's also a part
where they made the made the interview listen to a
whole song from Relia. I just want to be a
fly on up ball of him just having to look
engaged while listening to a song for the first time
(08:15):
that's played on it and then.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
He's scrambling to think of something to say it. Afterwards,
he goes, I can tell that is Selena Gomez. You're right.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
He was like, that was good. I was fully invested
in that. I'm like, I freaking hope. So anyway, great interview.
I'm being really mean. Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So Apple Side of Vininger premiered a few weeks ago
on Netflix. It's safe to say, judging by the bit
of data that Netflix has released, that most people who
subscribe to that service have already binged those episodes and
binged them the whole six episodes in the first week,
and it's led a lot of people to deep dive
into the history of Belle Gibson a bit more, but
(08:52):
also the supporting characters in the story, so Clive, her partner,
who's also her partner in real life. Well, actually, last
year was reported they had broken up so, but then
friends have said that they're still together. So again with
Bell Gibson, we'll never know, and diving into the supporting
characters there and one character who has had the most
conversation around her after Bell Gibson is the character of
(09:15):
Miller Blake, who is inspired by an Australian woman by
the name of Jessica ames Co who was known as
the Wellness Warrior.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, the story is so sad because even though miller
Blake's character is meant to be a depiction for a
lot of those I guess alternate medicine seeking people, that
whole influencer generation that started just after Instagram was made.
They said that her character was made up of a
lot of them, but it's pretty obvious it was just
jess Aimes Go.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, it's such an interesting choice. And I guess it's
so different with Belle Gibson because this series is very
much based on The Woman who Fooled the World, which
was the book that the two journalists who originally broke
the story of her not donating the money and then
her wellness lies wrote after their investigation. And also they
have factual things like the sixty minutes Interview that they
(10:07):
can use, and it's so well documented about the li
Belle Gibson told and the appearances that she did, and
the people have spoken out, so that's why they could
call her Bell in the series and use those moments
with jess Ain's co that's obviously a little bit different
because she spoke about having cancer, and she did have cancer,
and she was very beloved by the people that followed her,
(10:28):
and obviously there's been a lot of backlash after her
death of people saying that she was promoting an unhealthy
way to treat an illness. But it is a different
situation of using her likeness. So that's why she's one
of the few people on the show who has her
name change from Jessica Ain's code Tamilla Blake. And it's
interesting because the creative team behind Apple Side of Vinegar
have said over and over again that they just used
(10:51):
HER's inspiration, but once they got into the writing room,
they're like, we created a fictional character. We created her
from our own imaginations and from other stories, and she's
just an amalgamation of so many people.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But just like that slogan, it's a lie. It's not
a true story.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
But then the thing is it's all well and good
to say that, but when you watch the series, it's
beat for beat. Like they even show the same magazine
she worked at in real life. She had the exact
same cancer exactly, the exact same name of her blog,
like it's her. Yeah, they have reimagined like different photo
shoots that she did and put those on Timilla's.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Character, the same family dynamic exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, the story of her family is the biggest giveaway
because they chose to have her mother as Jessica Ainscow's
mother was diagnosed with They changed it from breast cancer
to bow cancer in the show, but her mother was
diagnosus never know. Yeah, like they make one little change,
but they've used her same family dynamic of a similar
amount of time that she survived after diagnosis, how she
(11:46):
talked about her illness, the books she wrote in the
Speaker funeral. Yeah, like that is like almost a beat
for beat of what really happened. And so they've taken
this woman's story and put it into the show and
are now saying it's not completely based on her when
it very obviously is.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, And her dad Cole has actually come out to
speak against her portrayal. In the show, saying it was
extremely inaccurate. He said, continue linking Jess's name to Belle
is appalling. Jess doesn't deserve her legacy to be tarnished
by this. He was particularly upset about how the show
alluded that Jess and Belle were quite close and in
(12:24):
constant contact, to the point where they could have been friends.
He said that they didn't know each other, that Jess
wasn't friends with her, and that Belle just showed up
to her funeral just to promote her own profile, not
for any other reason. He also says that it was
inaccurately depicted how Jess was died. So Jess actually passed
away ten years ago. This month it marks her death.
(12:47):
It's so so sad. And he said that she had
actually passed away to complications from radiation therapy, not from
her actual cancer.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, which is a very interesting statement to make.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It also said she was so intelligent and that he
was completely on board for her journey, whereas like the
dad in the show is completely against it from the
get go, and it's quite upset, and he said that
it feels like that they just made her someone who
didn't go through conventional medicine because she just didn't want to,
whereas that wasn't the case at all. It was actually
(13:19):
quite a grim diagnosis she was received and after all
her research and stuff, that's the roots she went through
and that's the route that he supported her with.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, exactly. I mean in such a complicated situation, and
the fallout from Apple Cided Vinegar. For the people who
were involved, whether it's the people who donated money to
Bell Gibson, all the people that she promised money to
and now the family of Jesse ains Co, the fallout
I think has been quite horrific for a lot of people.
It's interesting too, though, because I don't want to get
too much into the semantics of her diagnosis because we
(13:50):
basically don't have that information available and it is private.
But at the same time, when you look back at
a lot of the speaking engagements she did, the interviews
she did, whether she was talking about her own health
or not, she was pushing a form of treating cancer
that is proven not to work and that could have
been dangerous for any time, harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
She was drinking juice in just every hour and like
multiple coffee and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Exact day exactly, and not that I think now she
deserves to be called out or like villainized in a
Netflix show or anything like that. But I just think
it's important to separate the two things of like, yes,
we might not have the full story about her from
a Netflix show, which is fair enough, but also a
lot of the media that she did is very harmful.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It is it's hard to talk about, but it's so
true because, as you said, we don't know the complications
of like her medical history, Like she probably genuinely thought
that this was the only route that was available to
her that she went through, and she believed that that
had cured her for two years before the cancer came back.
But it's one thing doing that and going down this
route versus promoting this as a way to cure cancer.
(14:54):
Well exactly Belle did even though she didn't have cancer.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, exactly, So that they are two very different stories
and at the same time, like just did monetize it
to an extent or at least kind of built a
platform off it. At the same time, I really understand
why her family is this upset, especially because it's been
ten years since her death and there would be a
lot of feelings and emotions with that anniversary coming up,
and they've been living with that loss for the last
ten years. And now to have people googling her names
(15:21):
and her photo, her real life photo of like Jess,
not just the actress Alicia Deennon Caerry who played her,
is across so many websites. It's up there next to
Bell Gibson, and.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It shows how influential media can be. Like even I
said that when we did our brutally honest review of
Apple Cider Vinegar, Miller Blake was not a likable character.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, I didn't think she was likable, but I very
much felt for her, Like I don't think they were
trying to put her out there as a villain or
anything like that in the show. If anything, they were
trying to show that Belle was doing it for not
just the money and the lives, but to feel loved
and accepted. And you see Miller like she one hundred
percent believes what she's doing is the correct thing, that
she wants those juices out there, even though everyone tells
(16:02):
her this is not the best, it's not going to
make you money, but she doesn't care because she actually
thinks those juices are going to kill people, which is
very in line with the Jeff Ain's Co's way of
thinking of Like I want to tell people this because
I believe it's true to the point in this series
where you see Miller even sacrifice her own mother's health,
like she's so sure that.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I was so unlikable, which jess Ainsko's dad Cole, was like,
that's inaccurate, Like she didn't do that, like her mom
chose that route herself.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, it's so hard because the thing is Netflix and
the creators behind this series. You really can't just say,
oh no, no, it's not based on her when you
used her entire life as plot points for the show,
and then to come out and say that, and also
with her husband at the time, because I think he's
spoken out about it as well.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, he and her best friend have also spoken out
against Netflix, saying how inaccurate so many of the things,
but the main one that they keep talking about was
that she wasn't that close with Belle Gibson.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, but I don't think the show betrayed them as
being overly close. If anything, they just think they.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Did in a way where they made Miller look like
she was obsessed with Belle, like that was very much
evident in the show.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
A little bit the other ways that you saw that
Belle thought she was friends with Miller and she had
this very intense parasocial relationship with her and because they
were trading messages. But then when she meets Miller for
the first time at that event and Miller can't place
her and she's talking to everyone, that's when she has
the realization that I don't know, I'm just another commented
to her, like she actually doesn't care about me, and
(17:31):
that kind of spirals Belle, and then Miller really comes
out against her as like very you know, angry and vindictive,
and so much of that is about Chanelle because she
was Milla's childhood friend and it starts working for Belle.
But you don't really see Belle and Miller interact that
much in the show in terms of like being friends,
apart from when they're at the awards and they have
that quick interaction. You more see them being like parasocial,
(17:55):
and then you see them have these interactions and then
they go to kind of almost being enemies.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, which which again didn't happen. No no, no, Well,
if anything, Belle was probably thought that Miller was an
enemy and Miller was like, I don't even know who
you are. That would have been the most accurate thing.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
What we know from jess Ainscoe's manager who gave interviews
after her death, and she was saying that Jessica only
met Bell Gibson once at a conference and Belle came
up to her, and apart from that, they followed each
other on Instagram. You know, you just have Instagram. You
like each other's stuff, but you don't like talk offline.
They had that relationship. But then Belle really did come
to her funeral and cause a huge scene which is
(18:31):
depict cra So one of the other people that is
really having to come back into the Belle Gibson fray
in a very intense way at the moment is journalist
Tara Brown, because she is the one who conducted that
very infamous twenty fifteen sixty minutes interview with Belle Gibson,
(18:53):
which not only has become one of the most viral
pieces of media around the Bell Gibson story, but also
a moment that they re enact almost word for word
in Apple Cider Vinegar.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, and they didn't change her name either, No, no, no,
there was like real Tara Brown.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You don't have to protect people's identities when your work
from something that's in the public eye. And also, you know,
it's an incredible piece of journalism from Tara Brown and
so much work went into that, so you'd want to
keep her name on it. So she took part in
a new documentary called Dangerous Lies Unmasking Bell Gibson, which
was on Channel nine this week, but you can also
watch on nine Now catch Up. She's also been doing
(19:29):
a lot of different interviews talking about it, and one
of the kind of interesting things I thought is like
what happened before and after the interview and how Belle
Gibson's demeanor changed. So when you see sort of the
beginning of the interview, you see that Bell Gibson seems
quite happy and relaxed, and you know there's people on
set being like, I like you jump a bell and
she's like thanks, and it's all nice. It's like she
(19:52):
has no idea what's really happening. Obviously on Apple side
of Vinegar, with Caitlyn Diva playing Belle, they make it
look very calculated of her demanding the money before the
interview go into her account, and it's another piece of
the puzzle to her of how she's going to get
money to sustain this lifestyle while her business is failing.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I also thought it was really interesting that the figure
it was like seventy five K that they were giving
her for the interview in the show, they made it
so similar to the figure of like the family she
owed money to charities. I was like, that's so interesting
because everyone I think sitting there was like, you better
give that money to that little boy.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know she and we know she definitely didn't do that,
hasn't given any money back. So what Tara Brown has
said about the interview since then in a number of
different interviews and in this documentary is that it started
off quite okay, but the more they kind of pushed
with the questioning, the more agitated and angry Belle Gibson got, which,
as you can understand from a point of view, like
(20:48):
if you're having to like kind of answer it to
your lives, you would get very upset about it. But
it's just so interesting that it seems that she was
quite unaware of that it was going to go that way,
even though she knew she had lied, which just adds
to the layer of the question around her over the
years is how much it is calculated and how much
of it in her own mind? Did she really believe? Yeah,
like she obviously did know she was lying, but it's
(21:10):
like how much of her to.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
The point of like couldn't even tell her like her
own age?
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, actually, how old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I've always been raised as being currently a twenty six
year old?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
How old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Well, I live knowing as I've always known that I
would be twenty six.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Okay, Belle, I've this is a really really simple question.
How old are you?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
I believe that I'm twenty six.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I have.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Two birth certificates, and I've had my name change four times.
The identity crisis there is big, but that was my
normal when I was growing up, Tara that what.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Do you know the truth to be?
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Now, that's probably a question that we'll have to keep
digging for because it's not something I've ever understood or
had answers around.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
So when you needed to file some financial documents, how
did you choose the birthdate you gave?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
If you don't know, that's my most recent deep Pole paper,
which has the younger of the age and the most
recent of the name right.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So currently then, according to those documents, you're twenty three.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, I've always believe as I've always known, And Tara's.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Like, I believe I'm twenty yix.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
But are you?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
This is a simple question. This is not the hard question.
There is a moment where she got very agitated in
the interview Tara bound has said where she said she
felt belittled. She said that she felt very attacked and
a lot of it was to do around her asking
about her brother's diagnosis. But what's also interesting is that
obviously in the interview, and we've seen this part where
they keep saying like where are the medical records, Like
(22:54):
you say you've had cancer, you said you've had a stroke,
you said you've had all these like where are all
these medical records? And she can't give them. And then
apparently afterwards she did give Tara Brown the sixty minutes
team some documentation, like she willingly gave them this documentation.
And in the letter and the documents which were dated
before the whole pantry app was launched and all of
(23:15):
that was launched. In the documents, it says from her
medical team, you are completely well, like it's a big
document but that's what it says, it says you are well,
you don't have cancer, and so she gave them that.
So it's almost like she dug her Engrave in a
way because she handed over the documentation that said I
knew I wasn't sick and I knew I didn't have
cancer before I built this whole system, which is very different.
(23:37):
She talks about the.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Internet kind of confessed roughight at the end.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Afterwards she gave them the documentation.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Why didn't they use that in the interview.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Well, it came afterwards when they were trying to get
the bits and pieces. Yeah, so obviously there's a lot
of moving parts the sixty minutes into you in the
investigation they did and what they followed up. But yeah,
that's something that's come out since then, is that she
did have documents to prove her diagnosis. It just proved
that the diagnosis was your healthy and she handed it over.
Even afterwards, they were saying that a producer drove her
(24:06):
home and she kind of seemed okay, like she was
just not aware of what happened, which.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You see Caitlin Diva play so well, right, like just
unaware of how many lives she is destroyed. Yeah, and
just being like knowing about it but not thinking that
it's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, she's the worst kind of girl boss. Towards the
end in the Apple Side of Vinegar series where they're
sitting on the couch eating pasta after everything has happened,
and she's like, you is just gluten free and he's
just like shut up, like absolutely, don't bring that up
right now. But then she is, we need to go
somewhere where you don't get punished for startup culture, where
they don't try and tear people down, and it's like, yeah,
in her head, she does think that she's being torn
(24:42):
down for being a self starter not lying about her
cancer diagnosis. And that's the interesting thing about Bell Gibson
is like she obviously knows she lied, but how much
of it does she believe in her own mind? Which
I think is very interesting. So yeah, the more you
care about the mechanics that interview and what went on
behind the scenes, the more interesting it is. And I've
seen a few other different publications come out and either
(25:04):
admit fold or then talk about what it was like
when they interviewed Bell Gibson. And one interesting post and
article I've seen is from Peppermint Magazine, which is a
publication I follow, and this article is entitled Belle Gibson
A Spoonful of Vinegar. It talks about having Bell Gibson
on the cover of their spring issue in twenty fourteen,
and it starts off by saying, accountability can be uncomfortable,
(25:26):
but I can tell you what feels worse living with
an apology you've held on too for over a decade.
Watching Apple's Side of Vinegar starring Caitlyn Diva on Netflix
this past week has brought up a cascade of emotions.
And then they go on to say that they kind
of give it behind the scenes how they decided that
Belle was going to be on the cover as the
part of the Food for Thought main feature. They said,
we were enamored with Belle as everyone else. She was charismatic,
(25:49):
confident in oh so inspiring. And this is where it
gets kind of interesting about what it was like to
deal with her before all of this came out. That
was a lie, and that in this article they write
about the fact they sent her a list of interview
questions and they asked her to talk about her app
and her community. And then they said that the answers
that came back were a little disappointing, and they were
(26:10):
confers us because she had only spoken about the technical
aspects of the app and nothing about her story or
her community, and her answers had no heart and soul.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Which she kind of saw that in the show, right,
you saw her like, especially with the book Dealer, how
she wanted to remove her name from it completely and
not have it so she wanted it to be the
pantry by the pantry. Yeah, and she didn't want to
talk about her cancer journey at all.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah. It's like when she realized how big the lie
was getting and how she started doing all these interviews
and covers and TV spots and they were doing all
this press around the book is then she kind of
almost wanted to remove herself from the narrative because she
could sense people were getting too close. And it's interesting
because they say then they had to go back to
her and say like, hey, can you put some more
(26:53):
information in here, basically saying we can't make a cover
out of this. Then they say, then her answers came back,
and they were full of emotion and full of these
beautiful declarations, and they said, like, we'll give her. One
thing is that she was great with words, like once
she got going and she got into her lie, she
really believed it. So they put out the cover story
and that was around the team time that, as we
(27:14):
see in the show, she put up that very infamous
photo of the pink balloons on her Instagram and talked
about her cancer coming back. So we see that in
the show that happened in real life. And at the
time that was when the magazine was about to come
out with her on the cover, and they say in
this article Peppermint Magazine that they offered to not run
the cover, and she said, no, no, it's my legacy.
(27:35):
I want you to put it out. And then she
told the world that she was going to step away
from the spotlight, step away from the public eye, and
just spend time with her son, because this new diagnosis
meant that she didn't have a lot of time left.
And obviously every person who'd interviewed her, everyone had her team.
Her fans were also supportive and like, yes, do that.
And then they said when the magazine came out, they
(27:58):
contacted Bell and she showed them photos where she had
the magazine in la at the Apple offices, and she
was seeing them photos being like, yes, love the cover.
I've got the magazine here, it's on the table at Apple.
And they were like, well, hang on, like, aren't you dying.
I'm paraphrasing now like you said you were dying. You're
spending time with your son. But they said it was
very It was comfortable for them because they knew what
(28:19):
the world for but they knew she was in Apple
in LA and it was just one of those times
of sort of seeing like how a publication was dealing
with her behind the scenes. So I think there's so
many people at the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's like you have that gut feeling you know something's wrong,
but you can't just you just can't pin it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think there's so many people now,
Like I keep seeing posts from people who had photos
with her at events saying like I like reposting them
and saying I didn't know. So many outlets now backtracking
on their interviews or signs or something they have to spotted. Well, well,
actually the last time she was spotted. Obviously, everyone at
the moment has been chasing Belle Gibson for an interview
(28:57):
for information, and every story I read about Apple Sided.
Viinga says at the bottom, we have reached out to
Bell Gibson for comment and heard nothing back, so she's
really keeping her head down. People say she's furious. It's
hard to say because no one's like, there's no credible
sources that we're talking to around her. But in February
twenty twenty four, so February last year, a reporter from
a current affair approached Bell Gibson at the petrol station.
(29:20):
This is one of the last times she was spotted
and asked why she hadn't paid a cent of her fines,
and she responded, have some humanity. I haven't paid things
because I can't afford to. Well, she probably has no money,
but that twenty five k, well, that's the thing. During
the whole court case, she went on a very luxurious
holiday overseas holiday and photographers and journalists were waiting at
(29:43):
the airport when she landed, and she was very angry
that they were harassing her. And when she was asked
about it in court, she said that Clive had paid
for it. And when they said what does Clive do,
she said, I don't know. They said, where does Clive
get his money? She's like I don't know, to be fair,
that's like me with every matter. So at this point
in time, she hasn't paid her fines. But Victorian Premierge
just into Alan last week confirmed that Consumer Affairs are
(30:06):
now like really pursuing the matter. I think it's a
lot of high now, so we'll see. But yeah, there's
been a lot of fallout from Apple side of Vinegar
and a lot of families talking about the money they
never got and like what happened to their families and
you know all that sort of stuff, and how people
didn't want to like help them out because they thought
they had been part of the trick, the Bell Gibson trick,
(30:27):
whereas they were just people with sick kids who wanted
to like take this help from this woman who offered
it to them. So between like the journalists who were
telling their stories and the family of jesse Ain's co
and the people who are involved in it, and even
like for Bell Gibbson herself, like the fallout from the
show has been immense, but hopefully some good will come
of it in a way in terms of just highlighting
(30:49):
that what you see online isn't real.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, thank you so much for listening to this bill today.
If you haven't already, please listen to our broodly honest
review of Apple Side of Vinegar. We will link it
in our show notes, or you can just scroll back
and see what else you miss. Also, Mum and mea
podcast true crime Conversations, is dropping an interview which in
their mccauliffe she was the real life whistleblower who first
(31:11):
exposed Belle Gibson's lives, and she shares some exclusive details
about confronting Belle, uncovering the truth, and her thoughts on
being portrayed in the new series that is dropping tomorrow.
We'll put a link to that episode in our show notes.
The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradish with sound production
by Scott Stronik and we'll be back here in your
podcast feed at three pm tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Bye bye.
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