October 21, 2024 • 34 mins
Last week, the AFL moved swiftly to condemn and sanction players of the GWS Giants men's team for their behaviour during a post-season function. Today on the show, Abbey and Georgie tackle the story head on, reacting to the backlash, the fallout, and sharing their personal perspectives as women in sport.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here at Too Good Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the
land on which we record this podcast. There were innerie people.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
This land was never seated.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Always was always will be hi there, welcome to do
good sports. It's sports news told differently as always.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Georgie Tani.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm a very nasal abby jelmy. I'm not well.
I know I usually have some baritone to my voice,
but at the moment it is next level. But we've
got Georgie in a bubble and the topic this week
is too important that I could not be here, Yes,
because we are going to tackle something Georgie that, honestly,
I've never been more nervous about a topic that we
(00:43):
are going to take on on this podcast. I think
it's something that we've created a platform to be able
to speak openly about how we feel without worrying how
a particular audience may take us. And by particular I
say male audience, if I'm honest. And what's unfolded in
the past week in my code, in the code that
I follow and have followed since being a kid in
(01:06):
AFL has been pretty distressing, yes, and awful, horrible, And
I think that the fact that we have a platform
to talk about it and also share our own experiences
as women in sport is really important.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, and it is one.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It is a topic that we are not taking lightly.
We know that people are going to come at us,
but it would Yeah, what's new, what's new? We have
been working, living, loving the sports space since we were born, really,
and it's just another example of the world telling us
that sport is not for us, it's not for girls,
(01:42):
it's not for women, and so therefore this is our response.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
However, we need to get a good sport in there.
We need something to get and we're going to get
up and about.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We'll get there.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Gw Wes, We'll get This is one of my favorite
stories and it genuinely is. He's one of the best
characters in And I was lucky enough to mce an
event where Harry Coffee, who was a winner of the
court Field Cup on the weekend on Duke Dicessa and
it wasn't the favorite he discharged home, but it was
actually at the VC for Ronald McDonald house and he
(02:13):
got up and he told his story. So this is
a kid that has suffered from cystic vibrosis. His whole
life was in and out of Royal Children's Hospital and
it deeply affects his lungs. Yes, so important for a jockey,
important for a jockey in general fitness. And so his
parents and his dad's a trainer, were told that he
would never be a jockey, it would never be available
(02:34):
for him, but also that they wouldn't have him for long.
That's the quote that he was unlikely to get to adulthood.
He himself was told that he would never be a
dad and that these things wouldn't be available to him
because of the advancements we've seen in the treatment of
cystic vibrosis. This wonderful country character who all these trainers
(02:55):
said no to, but he just kept trying, just one
one of the biggest races in the country on the weekend,
his wife Taylor. He speaks so lovingly about his wife
Taylor and his son Thomas, because he was able to
be a dad and yeah, it's just this amazing story
of perseverance and his character. Like he's so funny and
(03:18):
so self deprecating about the fact that he had an
interview with Richo after the race. He goes not bad
for a bloke with half a lump because in really
and just has never shied away from his story, has
never tried to dull what those illnesses really have been,
what his recovery has been. And we know what jockey's
put themselves through in terms of the stress on their body.
(03:40):
And I'm sure there are a million times where he
thought this isn't worth it, or this can't be the
best thing for me or my health. But there was
just something special that's so wholesome. It is, it's such
a wholesome story. Well, I just I Yeah, it's the
best of sport. It is the best of sport. It
is the best of sport. I also have a good
(04:01):
sport today. Yeah, we're making up for the bad sports
coming coming. But I have a good sport too.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And it is a big congratulations pad on the back
to the Papua New Guinea and rugby league team because
we are in international rugby league season. Yes, the NRL
is done with Penwrith Panthers.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well done.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
A sound like a woman who was toget as far
away from the Broncos as possible.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
You're literally going to another country twenty twenty five. It's
gonna be our year, Okay, It's gonna be our year.
Twenty twenty four certainly wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
But if we focus on the international running of rugby league,
which is happening right now. Yes, the Kangaroo has been playing,
Yes New Zealand's been playing. But PNNG had an historic
win against Fiji in Fiji over the weekend, twenty two
points to ten for the Kummels. And this is huge
because there is a very very very very very very
(04:52):
strong chance, I think it's already been confirmed in certain
circles that Papua New Guinea will have a team added
to the NRL. There are all kinds of geopolitical reasons
for that, but no one can deny just how much
love this country has for that sport and that code,
in particular rugby league players. If they go to tour
Papua New Guinea, they are treated like god. It's like
(05:14):
cricket in India, right, it is, it is, It's a
religion for them. So this is wonderful and the celebrations,
the vision of that in Papua New Guinea is really
really heartwarming, so wholesome and heartwarming.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To start us off in this episode are two good sports.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Now we're gonna get into a topic that change that tone.
This could really go anywhere, and it's coming up.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Jeremy, do you know what I miss off seasons where
you actually don't hear.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
About the sports?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And then I thought, you know what, I haven't been
able to miss those, you know, I haven't had to
experience that feeling for a.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
While because they don't exist.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
They don't exist constantly. We are drawn back into the
world of a code that should be on holiday, but
alas we are never able to enjoy a moment's rest
because what happened and what came to light last week,
the report started flooding in about an incident that had
occurred at a GWS Giant's Wacky Wednesday post season event
(06:30):
on the eighteenth of September. Now, this was after their
semi final loss to Brisbane in the AFL Finals. It
happened at a function that took place in a private
room of a pub in Woollomeloo. Now it emerged in
the days later that a complaint was made by a
bartender at the pub after having watched CCTV footage of
(06:50):
activities that were happening in that pub in Woollommeloo. The players,
quite a few of them had decided to partake in
a theme of the party, which was called Troubled Couples.
We're going to get into just how troubled that theme
is in a bit, but basically, the players were caught
wearing various costumes depicting athletes and celebrities in certain scenes
(07:17):
and skits. This is what happened according to the AFL,
and this is the AFL CEO Andrew Dillon explaining exactly
what went down in that private function and the AFL's
response to it.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
The AFL investigation confirmed the following breach is what players
of AFL Rule two point three. A player Josh Fay
dressed as a former NRL player and Jake Riccarty as
a taxi driver. In the course of the skit, fa
simulated inappropriate acts on a sex doll. McCarty was not
involved in that part of the skit. Toby McMullan and
Cooper Hamilton simulated the September eleventh terrorist attack on the
(07:53):
World Trade Center in costume related to that event. Harvey
Thomas dressed as a particular professional sports and Joe font
Is a girl acting inappropriately during their skin. Connor Eyden
and Lockie Whitfield enacted a scene from the movie Jango
Unchained characterizing slavery. The behavior and the disrespect the players
have demonstrated this event do not uphold any of the
(08:15):
values of the AFL or the Giants, and the behavior
is not acceptable in any setting at any time. There
is nothing funny or clever about these actions, and we
are not, as a code and competition prepared to accept
these behaviors. We're also very disappointed that none of the
leaders sanction sought to stop the.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Behavior, so speculation about what had actually happened at this
private function was rife. Yes, from when the story broke
on the Tuesday to on the Thursday when Andrew Dillon
made his statement and also handed down the sanctions. So
thirteen current and former GWS players were sanctioned, and it's
important to note that not all of the playing group
(08:55):
chose to attend.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, and as far as we know, staff were there
earlier in the day but not present.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Josh Fay was suspended for four matches for simulating the
acts with the sex doll, and what is being referred
to there is a rape case. They acted out a
rape case of which he was dressed as Jared Hayne,
who after six years being convicted twice and then acquitted
and serving jail time for this very well known case
(09:24):
where the woman in that circumstance again was represented by
a sex dollp and the act was performed for comedy value.
Five players that dressed up were then received two week bands,
including Cooper Hamilton who now no longer plays for the Giants,
so I don't know how he's meant to serve that band.
And the rest was five thousand dollar fines to the
(09:45):
leadership group, and Toby Green in particular had been speculated
in the lead up to that announcement to potentially have
received twenty thousand dollars for his lack of leadership shown
He dressed up as Raygun obviously wasn't part of these
offensive skits, but the we are didn't stop it. The
Giants were aware that this happened. The Giants, the club,
(10:05):
the institution and took no action, as in they were
made aware, as you said, by staff at the pub
and said nothing illegal had happened and that it was
a private function and had happened behind closed doors. The
AFL have absolutely copped it from the larger AFL fan
base for how heavy handed they believed that these sanctions are.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Some fans even I mean prior yes, to us learning
exactly what went down in that room. We're calling for
the GWS giants players involved to consider legal action, taking
legal action out against the AFL for how heavy handed
they had been.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And Dane Swann, former Collingwood great and also a Brownlow medallist,
it has to be said, took to social media to say,
you have to kind of hope these GWS boys have
sacrificed a live go to or something at the pub
because these punishments are ridiculous for what's being told right now.
And what's being told right now is dress up, laughing
(11:07):
at rape, yes, underage women and relationships, terrorism victims being
the butt of a joke, and also racism.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, because this was it was important to note this
was all speculated. A lot of those different skits and
scenarios were speculated before we had confirmation.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And we thought, surely not.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I thought there's no way that can all be.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And Dane went on to say, also the bartender who
ratted on them deserves jail time all time. Disgusting thing
to do at a private event. So the disgusting thing
to do at a private event is to say, hey,
I find this inappropriate, not the actions itself, and it
is important we really summarized Andrew Dillon's statement there. Yes,
(11:50):
he did thank the person that came forward for calling
it out, Yeah, which he should have because, oh, Georgie,
the impact of this and the ripple effect of this
idea that so long as boys can be boys behind
closed doors and we can't take a joke anymore. They
(12:11):
didn't mean for it to be public, When are they
ever going to be allowed to blow off some steam?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Is just can't be perfect all the.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Time, jokes about rape and terrorism and racism in any
context where that is not funny. It is twenty twenty four,
and it is technically a work function because staff had
previously been there throughout the day.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I laugh because I'm so uncomfortable at the reality of
this incident that has happened. Because I've been trying to think, Jelemy,
I'm trying to be I've been trying to wrestle with
the idea about why this case, these giants players acting
the way they did has hit me more than others,
because you know, this is not the first time. This
(13:00):
is not the first time that codes have let us down.
This is not the first time that teams have let
us down. This is certainly not the first time normal
a bit the last, that players have let us down.
But it is because it is a greater mirror. Footy
in general is a mirror to society. So what we
are seeing from those boys and what they deem to
be funny and an inconsequential skit is essentially society once
(13:26):
again saying or telling us that sport's not for us,
sport is not for women. You actually aren't welcome here
unless you want to be the butt of the joke.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And the layers of planning that went into that joke,
I cannot. This wasn't just get up and reenact. It
was set as a theme yep. When no one thought,
hey guys, this do we think this is problematic? They
then went out and particularly the Jared Hanes supposed reenactment
for mine where the taxi driver I can't. This has
(13:57):
been in court for six years. Only ever in an
incident where a party believed they were raped and the
woman was represented by a sex doll, and at no
point during the purchasing of outfits.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
The planning planning has a blowing up.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Someone thought, gee, this is a bit off. This is
not okay. And the reason why the ripple effect is terrifying,
and I'm not exaggerating it is terrifying for me, is
that at the moment, there's a Respect Victoria campaign about
calling it out and there is a line in there
that says not all disrespect ends with violence, but all
(14:39):
violence against women starts with disrespect. We live in a
culture in Australia where there is a spike of violence
against women around the AFL Grand Final, around the NRL
Grand Final and around state of origin. That's facts. And
if they say well this was behind closed doors, do
you know where women in this country are the least
(15:00):
safe in their home? And this idea that it is
funny for a group of men to get together and
it's not just women that were victimized through this, it's
minorities as a rule. Yes that this is still funny,
I actually can't copy it. And the thing that just
made me sick to my stomach is again, I consume
(15:22):
a lot of this, it is my job, and the
talkback callers throughout the week, and even listening to male
colleagues of mine that took a strong stance on radio
saying this isn't funny, this isn't okay, genuinely saying we're
looking at the text line now and the messages coming through,
I've got to be honest, are scary.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes, And that's what I want to pick up on
because I have had a lot of conversations over the
past week with people that I would deem to be
very emotionally intelligent, Yes, about how you have to let
guys have a safe space that they can be this,
they can be this part of themselves. Why, that's why,
(16:03):
that's why it's funny. Get a new sense of humor,
get a new sense of humor, and let's just see
if anything changes, because we've been doing your sense of
humor forever and women keep dying, minorities keep getting targeted, Like,
let's let's change something if you're doing exactly the same
(16:23):
thing that I believe is the definition of insanity.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
But also, you can't joke about anything anymore. No, sorry, sorry,
you actually can't joke about rape. Yes, sorry, I'm like
fucking unfortunate. There's nothing else in the world that you
can like about.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
And for people who say you're right, jellmy to point
out that this is a private function. Well, color me
freaking offended, because what do you mean are you meaning
to tell me?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And I was even in someone's home.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It wasn't in someone's home.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You're in a priory, never staff, you were in a
public place. You're in a public place. And dare I
say if you are in your private you're in a
private space or whatever you want to say? Does that
mean that you're being your truest version of yourself?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Total?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So am I to believe that your personality is someone
who is happy to say that re enacting a rape
case or all the elements within that is funny, is fine.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And we mentioned Georgie the flow on effect of this.
We've both worked in sport, and we started out in
sport as very young women. Yes, and the people that say,
let boys be boys, this is funny. All that sort
of stuff are our audience there, and particularly when you
(17:43):
work specifically in sport, they're the people sitting on their
couch watching. And when I was twenty two or twenty three,
I forget now it's been a long time. I read
my first ever bulletin for Fox Sports News. I'd done
two degrees to get to that point i'd moved into State,
I'd followed sport my whole life, and I was so
proud of myself and really excited for that opportunity. I
(18:04):
then got back to my desk, where part of my
role at the time was also to monitor the social
media account of Fox Sports, and I had a tweet
deck up. And those that have tweet deck know that
you have your personally, you have all these different accounts
so that you can keep track of what's happening in sports.
Me and I'd received a direct message to my personal account,
which at this point I wasn't even really a public
figure in any way, shape or form, and I opened
(18:26):
it and there was a dick pic I wish I
could think of a more a photo of male genitalia
again twenty two or twenty three, And I was just
doing my job, and that for me was the beginning
of more than a decade of realizing that if I'm
going to be a woman in sport, this is stuff
that I'm just going to have to tolerate. There was no
(18:48):
way to report that to my boss as being because
I didn't want them to go, oh, well, she's going
to be fair weather, or this is going to be
hard work, because this is what she's just going to
have to tolerate. I've received messages my entire career about
how I look, if I'm wearing enough, if I'm wearing
(19:09):
too much. Wearing too much is always what I get.
You're approved where less, even with this podcast. A few
weeks ago, Look, Laura and I did a topic on
where the AFL Grand Finals should be and I argued
that it should stay at the MCG and somebody thought
I was arguing against them, And there's line at the
end was stick to sports, you know, And I just go,
(19:32):
if I was a bloke, you're not saying stick to sports.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
It's because I'm like, I couldn't have followed this my
whole life. I've worked in it for a better part
of a decade. It's because I'm a chick. And the
comments that come in your direct messages as a woman
in sport are always gendered. Always, it's always shut up,
you stupid bitch, Yes, always bitch. And I watch Pioneers,
You're Kelly Underwood's these these women that have weather all
(20:00):
of this shit in order to be in sport that
they it doesn't matter what they're doing they're going to
copy it because of their gender anyway, and then something
like this happens and this loud, seemingly loud majority go
g the AFL heavy handed. You saw a tweet that said.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh my gosh, I saw a comment on the AFL's
official sanctions post. I think it was saying Kim Jong
Dylan so comparing Andrew Dillon to the dictator of North
Korea because of their stance, because how could you possibly
think that a four game suspension for Josh Fay was
(20:42):
going to be adequate. That's crazy, You've lost your mind.
And we are like, this is just a snapshot of
some of the comments on social media that happened after
that press conference, so we knew everything that had happened
in that room. At this point, this bloke Dylan and
the AFL are giving football a name and not the players.
The AFL has gone completely woke in capitals, so pathetic.
(21:05):
They should be allowed to privately celebrate the end of
their season in private. Okay, well we've already discussed what
that private means. Well, it was a private function and
it should be left at that private. The AFL is
making it public, not the players, And then what a joke.
The AFL has become what a joke, What a joke?
How funny it is to take women seriously? To dare
(21:27):
I say, not degrade women, because that's what this is.
And jell me. Your experience has been shared by so many,
it's so common.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
It's so not isolated that we don't complain about it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Tragic, and I think that that has been the most
telling thing. And why we've both been so affected by
this story over the week is because remember when Michelle
Obama said, when they go low, you go high.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I'm fucking exhausted. I'm so tired. I'm not so.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Tired of going high all the time when our voice
is it's meant to be silenced in the systems that
already are in place.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it says behind closed doors, we're not welcome in
sport where the butt of the joke.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah yeah, And for me, what makes this even more
poignant and even more pointed right now is that the
GWS giants have an aflwdam.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
They had a whole round earlier in the year about
domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
They stood in a circle and said we need to
be better, call things out.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So it was on the fourth of May where they
linked arms and this is the quote that the Giants
posted to their social media. When it comes to violence
against women, the only acceptable figure is zero. We have
a collective responsibility to call it out and say you
can prevent it against women, against your daughters, mothers, sisters,
(22:56):
friends and colleagues. And in the lead up to that game,
the Giants shared to their own social media our Watch
CEO Patti Kinnersley addressing the group speaking about what societal
expectations are of the players, and we'll take a listen.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
You all know, we all know what the expectation is
on AFL and AFLW players to be role models, Like
the community expects an enormous amount of you. There's so
much pressure on you to do everything right all the time.
And in this situation when we're talking about violence against women,
there's this kind of real challenge of we want you
as an industry, and your team wants you, and your
(23:33):
teammates want you to be tough in and under for
the ball back into the pack, put your life on
the line for your buddies. And that's a real that's
one version of what we want you to be. But
then you step off the field and the community asks
you to be the type of young men and men
who are really good partners, have really respect for relationships,
and sometimes that those things can feel tricky to navigate.
(23:54):
Whole industry of athletes, particularly during the AFL season, a
whole group of men standing together and saying we're coming
together and saying we're not happy with what's happening in
violence against women in this country. We stand together and
we're going to do our bit. That's really important. And I, personally,
as a person who's been a leader in this space
(24:16):
for a long time, no, it matters.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I didn't realize that my expectations that people don't make
jokes about rape, terrorism, slavery was so off kilter. But hey,
I'd expect that from a four year old. So I
don't know, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, I do understand that they live in a
world where they are forever criticized. They are public figures.
There are some things that attract scrutiny when you are
a professional athlete of any variety that other people just
get away with. As in we thought about this earlier
with Sam kerr Yes and her incident of throwing up
(24:51):
in the cab and you know, being a little bit
abusive to not a little bit abusive. She called a
police officer a white bastard and that made international news. Yes,
so there are criticisms that come your way, but this
idea that we're expecting so much of adults in any
(25:11):
other context, I would lose my job.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Can you imagine for anyone there who's like, if you're
still on the fence about this and being like, oh,
I mean, I think that players need to be able
to let off some kind of stem.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Or missing Football's just such a big overreaction to the
huge AFL have to and they have. We've seen it
in the last twelve months, draw a line in the
sand to say this stuff's not okay.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But it's virtue signaling no, but we are.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But we saw it with homosexual slurs throughout the year,
where usually they'd be allowed to just go on. The
sanctions actually became increasingly severe as the season went on
because basically, with the AFL standing up, going this isn't
acceptable anymore. And I think that what a lot of
(26:00):
people are saying and what the AFLPA came out and
said after Andrew Dillon made that his statement was this culture. God,
I hate using that word. Is something that's been allowed
to exist within AFL clubs and within sport for generations.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, their language is pretty hard. They're like, we have
not worked hard enough to change that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Actually, let's read that. We've got the statement. Now, this
is part of the statement made by the AFLPA, And
before they get into this particular exert of the statement
that we're going to read, they do say that they
think that the investigation didn't take due or fair course,
that the players were basically handed down sanctions and given
a really short turnaround time to accept it, that there
(26:42):
wren't support people. So the AFLPA, while they agreed that
the actions were reprehensible and that there needed to be consequences,
have since come out and said what sort of process
is in place for this? How are we meant to
make sure that this is fair and reasonable?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, and hopefully put out so it doesn't happen again. Yes,
I feel like a crazy person that I need to
say these.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Words, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So this is part of the station from AFLPA CEO
Pall Marsh. As an industry, we've had too many cultural
issues and we've not worked hard enough to set and
role model the standards expected. This does not excuse individual
choices and decisions, but they are not made in a vacuum.
For many years, the industry has walked past this type
of behavior and accepted it as part of footy culture.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm just going to read that again.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
For many years, the industry has walked past this type
of behavior and accepted it as part of footy culture.
This is the culture that we are all now responsible for.
We include players, clubs, the AFL, and the AFLPA in this.
For more than twelve months, the AFLPA has been trying
to work with the AFL to establish a joint committee
as agreed in last year's CBA, the Collective Bargaining Agreement
(27:51):
inclusive of players, experts and industry people, to address these
issues proactively and improve our industry. This is yet to happen.
I think if to go back to can you imagine
if the women's team did this?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
They wouldn't one.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
They wouldn't obviously, but can you imagine the type of
fans who have been yelling at us, being like, let
them have a break. Can you imagine what they would
be then saying to the marquee players of the GWS Giants.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Now every AFL team has an AFLW team attached, and
I wonder how uncomfortable it is for the AFLW players
who made a statement about this and how distressing it was.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, this is part of their statement because I do
want to touch on it. I think it's really important
because lots of the players from the Giants team have
gone on the record this week saying that they have
been really affected.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
By what's happened.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Of course, of course with their brother team, one big
happy family there at the Giants. So this is from
the AFLW captain, Rebecca Beeson. It is important that we
make it known that we were deeply hurt and angered
when learning of the behavior that occur playing the game
We love gives us a platform to speak to the community,
fans and young people. As the AFLW playing group, we
feel it is our great It is of great importance
(29:08):
to stress that the behavior that included references to gender
based violence is completely unacceptable under any circumstances. The values
of respect, diversity and inclusion are as important off the
field as they are on it. We look forward to
the afl playing group learning from this incident and as
a club, we are united in ensuring everyone feels safe
within our game. They have so much work to do
(29:30):
that men's team in order to rebuild this trust.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I think, well, you know what, the one thing I
will say is my experience with the Giants and their
leaders is they've always been respectful. I agree, that's been
my and in particular, Toby Green's a delightful person. So
I think that we can go so far as to
really and I think the AFL PA put it really well.
(29:53):
This is a societal and a cultural issue, and we
are persecuting a small group of people that yes, have
made a horrendous, disgraceful, disgusting misjudgment. But we have to
call out this behavior loudly as a society in order
to affect any change. And speaking of change, throughout the
(30:15):
AFL season this year, the AFL as an institution, brought
out a diversity clause for media in the way that
we cover sport, and even that received this big, woke,
loud background. And again the fact that women still represent
diversity when we're fifty percent of the population gets me.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
For me, women don't watch school.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But but we also get you know, a conversation between
two white men on radio, one of them being Andrew Dillon,
where the host is essentially saying, but what about all
the middle aged white blokes that we have at this
network that call sport? What about them?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And Andrew Dillon, the.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Poor bloke is left there going We're not saying that
we're anti white men that have played sport. We're saying
we're at a stage where if we don't introduce a policy,
there's been no shift of the dial of representations of
minorities on air, so that when this stuff happens and
(31:18):
I listen to the radio and I turn on the TV,
it is not men talking about it. Yes, yes, because
that was the bit for me is I was like,
I want like someone be like I am filthy about this.
I want someone to go, I'm so angry about this.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, and you should be too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
And instead that's the conversation sort of deviated wider into
well this will end, mad mondays, dress ups are a
bit silly anyway, You're missing the point.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yes, yes, it's that because the point has.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Never affected you, and it's never made you feel like
you're not welcome here. You've never felt it.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Do you think that Andrew Dillon has handled this well.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I'm such an advocate for him and his leadership.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I think he's done this very very well. I think
it was very important that they went into such detail
about what went down in that room. Yep, because of
all the speculation that was happening. Do you think people
learn from this?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, it's it's hard not to be cynical, it really
really is. But hey, we're calling for change, so we
have to therefore believe in it.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And if the institution itself, the AFL are calling it
out and saying we don't stand for it anymore, that's
the start.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And I just want to take some time to just
give a little note to our female sports fans, our
female listeners, and just a reminder that sport is for you.
You cannot get keep sport. That was the whole reason
why Gelemy and I wanted to create this platform too.
Good sports and sport is for everyone to enjoy, for
everyone to love. So once again, when they go low,
(32:57):
stay high.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And we definitely at two good sports have made this
about gender, but there was also two other minorities, yes,
that were really awfully attacked in this in victims of
terrorism and also people that are ethnic in terms of
the Django Unchain skit, and we certainly don't want to
glaze over how painful that would have been for them,
(33:21):
but this is how it affected us. Oh, deep breaths,
It feels like deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
We realize that this has been a really heavy episode
of Two Good Sports. We think that it has had
to be. But because of that, we have a quick,
just a quick little fun fact.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Jell me take it away.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Jokes about rape, terrorism, and race are not funny.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's it. You can always follow two Good Sports on
Instagram at two Good Sports Podcasts. We'll catch you next week,
but until then, be a good sport.
Here at Too Good Sports.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the
land on which we record this podcast. There were innerie people.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
This land was never seated.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Always was always will be hi there, welcome to do
good sports. It's sports news told differently as always.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Georgie Tani.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And I'm a very nasal abby jelmy. I'm not well.
I know I usually have some baritone to my voice,
but at the moment it is next level. But we've
got Georgie in a bubble and the topic this week
is too important that I could not be here, Yes,
because we are going to tackle something Georgie that, honestly,
I've never been more nervous about a topic that we
(00:43):
are going to take on on this podcast. I think
it's something that we've created a platform to be able
to speak openly about how we feel without worrying how
a particular audience may take us. And by particular I
say male audience, if I'm honest. And what's unfolded in
the past week in my code, in the code that
I follow and have followed since being a kid in
(01:06):
AFL has been pretty distressing, yes, and awful, horrible, And
I think that the fact that we have a platform
to talk about it and also share our own experiences
as women in sport is really important.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, and it is one.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It is a topic that we are not taking lightly.
We know that people are going to come at us,
but it would Yeah, what's new, what's new? We have
been working, living, loving the sports space since we were born, really,
and it's just another example of the world telling us
that sport is not for us, it's not for girls,
(01:42):
it's not for women, and so therefore this is our response.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
However, we need to get a good sport in there.
We need something to get and we're going to get
up and about.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We'll get there.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Gw Wes, We'll get This is one of my favorite
stories and it genuinely is. He's one of the best
characters in And I was lucky enough to mce an
event where Harry Coffee, who was a winner of the
court Field Cup on the weekend on Duke Dicessa and
it wasn't the favorite he discharged home, but it was
actually at the VC for Ronald McDonald house and he
(02:13):
got up and he told his story. So this is
a kid that has suffered from cystic vibrosis. His whole
life was in and out of Royal Children's Hospital and
it deeply affects his lungs. Yes, so important for a jockey,
important for a jockey in general fitness. And so his
parents and his dad's a trainer, were told that he
would never be a jockey, it would never be available
(02:34):
for him, but also that they wouldn't have him for long.
That's the quote that he was unlikely to get to adulthood.
He himself was told that he would never be a
dad and that these things wouldn't be available to him
because of the advancements we've seen in the treatment of
cystic vibrosis. This wonderful country character who all these trainers
(02:55):
said no to, but he just kept trying, just one
one of the biggest races in the country on the weekend,
his wife Taylor. He speaks so lovingly about his wife
Taylor and his son Thomas, because he was able to
be a dad and yeah, it's just this amazing story
of perseverance and his character. Like he's so funny and
(03:18):
so self deprecating about the fact that he had an
interview with Richo after the race. He goes not bad
for a bloke with half a lump because in really
and just has never shied away from his story, has
never tried to dull what those illnesses really have been,
what his recovery has been. And we know what jockey's
put themselves through in terms of the stress on their body.
(03:40):
And I'm sure there are a million times where he
thought this isn't worth it, or this can't be the
best thing for me or my health. But there was
just something special that's so wholesome. It is, it's such
a wholesome story. Well, I just I Yeah, it's the
best of sport. It is the best of sport. It
is the best of sport. I also have a good
(04:01):
sport today. Yeah, we're making up for the bad sports
coming coming. But I have a good sport too.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And it is a big congratulations pad on the back
to the Papua New Guinea and rugby league team because
we are in international rugby league season. Yes, the NRL
is done with Penwrith Panthers.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well done.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
A sound like a woman who was toget as far
away from the Broncos as possible.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
You're literally going to another country twenty twenty five. It's
gonna be our year, Okay, It's gonna be our year.
Twenty twenty four certainly wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
But if we focus on the international running of rugby league,
which is happening right now. Yes, the Kangaroo has been playing,
Yes New Zealand's been playing. But PNNG had an historic
win against Fiji in Fiji over the weekend, twenty two
points to ten for the Kummels. And this is huge
because there is a very very very very very very
(04:52):
strong chance, I think it's already been confirmed in certain
circles that Papua New Guinea will have a team added
to the NRL. There are all kinds of geopolitical reasons
for that, but no one can deny just how much
love this country has for that sport and that code,
in particular rugby league players. If they go to tour
Papua New Guinea, they are treated like god. It's like
(05:14):
cricket in India, right, it is, it is, It's a
religion for them. So this is wonderful and the celebrations,
the vision of that in Papua New Guinea is really
really heartwarming, so wholesome and heartwarming.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To start us off in this episode are two good sports.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Now we're gonna get into a topic that change that tone.
This could really go anywhere, and it's coming up.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Jeremy, do you know what I miss off seasons where
you actually don't hear.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
About the sports?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And then I thought, you know what, I haven't been
able to miss those, you know, I haven't had to
experience that feeling for a.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
While because they don't exist.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
They don't exist constantly. We are drawn back into the
world of a code that should be on holiday, but
alas we are never able to enjoy a moment's rest
because what happened and what came to light last week,
the report started flooding in about an incident that had
occurred at a GWS Giant's Wacky Wednesday post season event
(06:30):
on the eighteenth of September. Now, this was after their
semi final loss to Brisbane in the AFL Finals. It
happened at a function that took place in a private
room of a pub in Woollomeloo. Now it emerged in
the days later that a complaint was made by a
bartender at the pub after having watched CCTV footage of
(06:50):
activities that were happening in that pub in Woollommeloo. The players,
quite a few of them had decided to partake in
a theme of the party, which was called Troubled Couples.
We're going to get into just how troubled that theme
is in a bit, but basically, the players were caught
wearing various costumes depicting athletes and celebrities in certain scenes
(07:17):
and skits. This is what happened according to the AFL,
and this is the AFL CEO Andrew Dillon explaining exactly
what went down in that private function and the AFL's
response to it.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
The AFL investigation confirmed the following breach is what players
of AFL Rule two point three. A player Josh Fay
dressed as a former NRL player and Jake Riccarty as
a taxi driver. In the course of the skit, fa
simulated inappropriate acts on a sex doll. McCarty was not
involved in that part of the skit. Toby McMullan and
Cooper Hamilton simulated the September eleventh terrorist attack on the
(07:53):
World Trade Center in costume related to that event. Harvey
Thomas dressed as a particular professional sports and Joe font
Is a girl acting inappropriately during their skin. Connor Eyden
and Lockie Whitfield enacted a scene from the movie Jango
Unchained characterizing slavery. The behavior and the disrespect the players
have demonstrated this event do not uphold any of the
(08:15):
values of the AFL or the Giants, and the behavior
is not acceptable in any setting at any time. There
is nothing funny or clever about these actions, and we
are not, as a code and competition prepared to accept
these behaviors. We're also very disappointed that none of the
leaders sanction sought to stop the.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Behavior, so speculation about what had actually happened at this
private function was rife. Yes, from when the story broke
on the Tuesday to on the Thursday when Andrew Dillon
made his statement and also handed down the sanctions. So
thirteen current and former GWS players were sanctioned, and it's
important to note that not all of the playing group
(08:55):
chose to attend.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, and as far as we know, staff were there
earlier in the day but not present.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Josh Fay was suspended for four matches for simulating the
acts with the sex doll, and what is being referred
to there is a rape case. They acted out a
rape case of which he was dressed as Jared Hayne,
who after six years being convicted twice and then acquitted
and serving jail time for this very well known case
(09:24):
where the woman in that circumstance again was represented by
a sex dollp and the act was performed for comedy value.
Five players that dressed up were then received two week bands,
including Cooper Hamilton who now no longer plays for the Giants,
so I don't know how he's meant to serve that band.
And the rest was five thousand dollar fines to the
(09:45):
leadership group, and Toby Green in particular had been speculated
in the lead up to that announcement to potentially have
received twenty thousand dollars for his lack of leadership shown
He dressed up as Raygun obviously wasn't part of these
offensive skits, but the we are didn't stop it. The
Giants were aware that this happened. The Giants, the club,
(10:05):
the institution and took no action, as in they were
made aware, as you said, by staff at the pub
and said nothing illegal had happened and that it was
a private function and had happened behind closed doors. The
AFL have absolutely copped it from the larger AFL fan
base for how heavy handed they believed that these sanctions are.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Some fans even I mean prior yes, to us learning
exactly what went down in that room. We're calling for
the GWS giants players involved to consider legal action, taking
legal action out against the AFL for how heavy handed
they had been.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And Dane Swann, former Collingwood great and also a Brownlow medallist,
it has to be said, took to social media to say,
you have to kind of hope these GWS boys have
sacrificed a live go to or something at the pub
because these punishments are ridiculous for what's being told right now.
And what's being told right now is dress up, laughing
(11:07):
at rape, yes, underage women and relationships, terrorism victims being
the butt of a joke, and also racism.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, because this was it was important to note this
was all speculated. A lot of those different skits and
scenarios were speculated before we had confirmation.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
And we thought, surely not.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I thought there's no way that can all be.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And Dane went on to say, also the bartender who
ratted on them deserves jail time all time. Disgusting thing
to do at a private event. So the disgusting thing
to do at a private event is to say, hey,
I find this inappropriate, not the actions itself, and it
is important we really summarized Andrew Dillon's statement there. Yes,
(11:50):
he did thank the person that came forward for calling
it out, Yeah, which he should have because, oh, Georgie,
the impact of this and the ripple effect of this
idea that so long as boys can be boys behind
closed doors and we can't take a joke anymore. They
(12:11):
didn't mean for it to be public, When are they
ever going to be allowed to blow off some steam?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Is just can't be perfect all the.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Time, jokes about rape and terrorism and racism in any
context where that is not funny. It is twenty twenty four,
and it is technically a work function because staff had
previously been there throughout the day.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I laugh because I'm so uncomfortable at the reality of
this incident that has happened. Because I've been trying to think, Jelemy,
I'm trying to be I've been trying to wrestle with
the idea about why this case, these giants players acting
the way they did has hit me more than others,
because you know, this is not the first time. This
(13:00):
is not the first time that codes have let us down.
This is not the first time that teams have let
us down. This is certainly not the first time normal
a bit the last, that players have let us down.
But it is because it is a greater mirror. Footy
in general is a mirror to society. So what we
are seeing from those boys and what they deem to
be funny and an inconsequential skit is essentially society once
(13:26):
again saying or telling us that sport's not for us,
sport is not for women. You actually aren't welcome here
unless you want to be the butt of the joke.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And the layers of planning that went into that joke,
I cannot. This wasn't just get up and reenact. It
was set as a theme yep. When no one thought,
hey guys, this do we think this is problematic? They
then went out and particularly the Jared Hanes supposed reenactment
for mine where the taxi driver I can't. This has
(13:57):
been in court for six years. Only ever in an
incident where a party believed they were raped and the
woman was represented by a sex doll, and at no
point during the purchasing of outfits.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
The planning planning has a blowing up.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Someone thought, gee, this is a bit off. This is
not okay. And the reason why the ripple effect is terrifying,
and I'm not exaggerating it is terrifying for me, is
that at the moment, there's a Respect Victoria campaign about
calling it out and there is a line in there
that says not all disrespect ends with violence, but all
(14:39):
violence against women starts with disrespect. We live in a
culture in Australia where there is a spike of violence
against women around the AFL Grand Final, around the NRL
Grand Final and around state of origin. That's facts. And
if they say well this was behind closed doors, do
you know where women in this country are the least
(15:00):
safe in their home? And this idea that it is
funny for a group of men to get together and
it's not just women that were victimized through this, it's
minorities as a rule. Yes that this is still funny,
I actually can't copy it. And the thing that just
made me sick to my stomach is again, I consume
(15:22):
a lot of this, it is my job, and the
talkback callers throughout the week, and even listening to male
colleagues of mine that took a strong stance on radio
saying this isn't funny, this isn't okay, genuinely saying we're
looking at the text line now and the messages coming through,
I've got to be honest, are scary.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes, And that's what I want to pick up on
because I have had a lot of conversations over the
past week with people that I would deem to be
very emotionally intelligent, Yes, about how you have to let
guys have a safe space that they can be this,
they can be this part of themselves. Why, that's why,
(16:03):
that's why it's funny. Get a new sense of humor,
get a new sense of humor, and let's just see
if anything changes, because we've been doing your sense of
humor forever and women keep dying, minorities keep getting targeted, Like,
let's let's change something if you're doing exactly the same
(16:23):
thing that I believe is the definition of insanity.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
But also, you can't joke about anything anymore. No, sorry, sorry,
you actually can't joke about rape. Yes, sorry, I'm like
fucking unfortunate. There's nothing else in the world that you
can like about.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
And for people who say you're right, jellmy to point
out that this is a private function. Well, color me
freaking offended, because what do you mean are you meaning
to tell me?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And I was even in someone's home.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It wasn't in someone's home.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You're in a priory, never staff, you were in a
public place. You're in a public place. And dare I
say if you are in your private you're in a
private space or whatever you want to say? Does that
mean that you're being your truest version of yourself?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Total?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So am I to believe that your personality is someone
who is happy to say that re enacting a rape
case or all the elements within that is funny, is fine.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
And we mentioned Georgie the flow on effect of this.
We've both worked in sport, and we started out in
sport as very young women. Yes, and the people that say,
let boys be boys, this is funny. All that sort
of stuff are our audience there, and particularly when you
(17:43):
work specifically in sport, they're the people sitting on their
couch watching. And when I was twenty two or twenty three,
I forget now it's been a long time. I read
my first ever bulletin for Fox Sports News. I'd done
two degrees to get to that point i'd moved into State,
I'd followed sport my whole life, and I was so
proud of myself and really excited for that opportunity. I
(18:04):
then got back to my desk, where part of my
role at the time was also to monitor the social
media account of Fox Sports, and I had a tweet
deck up. And those that have tweet deck know that
you have your personally, you have all these different accounts
so that you can keep track of what's happening in sports.
Me and I'd received a direct message to my personal account,
which at this point I wasn't even really a public
figure in any way, shape or form, and I opened
(18:26):
it and there was a dick pic I wish I
could think of a more a photo of male genitalia
again twenty two or twenty three, And I was just
doing my job, and that for me was the beginning
of more than a decade of realizing that if I'm
going to be a woman in sport, this is stuff
that I'm just going to have to tolerate. There was no
(18:48):
way to report that to my boss as being because
I didn't want them to go, oh, well, she's going
to be fair weather, or this is going to be
hard work, because this is what she's just going to
have to tolerate. I've received messages my entire career about
how I look, if I'm wearing enough, if I'm wearing
(19:09):
too much. Wearing too much is always what I get.
You're approved where less, even with this podcast. A few
weeks ago, Look, Laura and I did a topic on
where the AFL Grand Finals should be and I argued
that it should stay at the MCG and somebody thought
I was arguing against them, And there's line at the
end was stick to sports, you know, And I just go,
(19:32):
if I was a bloke, you're not saying stick to sports.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
It's because I'm like, I couldn't have followed this my
whole life. I've worked in it for a better part
of a decade. It's because I'm a chick. And the
comments that come in your direct messages as a woman
in sport are always gendered. Always, it's always shut up,
you stupid bitch, Yes, always bitch. And I watch Pioneers,
You're Kelly Underwood's these these women that have weather all
(20:00):
of this shit in order to be in sport that
they it doesn't matter what they're doing they're going to
copy it because of their gender anyway, and then something
like this happens and this loud, seemingly loud majority go
g the AFL heavy handed. You saw a tweet that said.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh my gosh, I saw a comment on the AFL's
official sanctions post. I think it was saying Kim Jong
Dylan so comparing Andrew Dillon to the dictator of North
Korea because of their stance, because how could you possibly
think that a four game suspension for Josh Fay was
(20:42):
going to be adequate. That's crazy, You've lost your mind.
And we are like, this is just a snapshot of
some of the comments on social media that happened after
that press conference, so we knew everything that had happened
in that room. At this point, this bloke Dylan and
the AFL are giving football a name and not the players.
The AFL has gone completely woke in capitals, so pathetic.
(21:05):
They should be allowed to privately celebrate the end of
their season in private. Okay, well we've already discussed what
that private means. Well, it was a private function and
it should be left at that private. The AFL is
making it public, not the players, And then what a joke.
The AFL has become what a joke, What a joke?
How funny it is to take women seriously? To dare
(21:27):
I say, not degrade women, because that's what this is.
And jell me. Your experience has been shared by so many,
it's so common.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
It's so not isolated that we don't complain about it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Tragic, and I think that that has been the most
telling thing. And why we've both been so affected by
this story over the week is because remember when Michelle
Obama said, when they go low, you go high.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I'm fucking exhausted. I'm so tired. I'm not so.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Tired of going high all the time when our voice
is it's meant to be silenced in the systems that
already are in place.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And it says behind closed doors, we're not welcome in
sport where the butt of the joke.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah yeah, And for me, what makes this even more
poignant and even more pointed right now is that the
GWS giants have an aflwdam.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
They had a whole round earlier in the year about
domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
They stood in a circle and said we need to
be better, call things out.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Enough is enough.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
So it was on the fourth of May where they
linked arms and this is the quote that the Giants
posted to their social media. When it comes to violence
against women, the only acceptable figure is zero. We have
a collective responsibility to call it out and say you
can prevent it against women, against your daughters, mothers, sisters,
(22:56):
friends and colleagues. And in the lead up to that game,
the Giants shared to their own social media our Watch
CEO Patti Kinnersley addressing the group speaking about what societal
expectations are of the players, and we'll take a listen.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
You all know, we all know what the expectation is
on AFL and AFLW players to be role models, Like
the community expects an enormous amount of you. There's so
much pressure on you to do everything right all the time.
And in this situation when we're talking about violence against women,
there's this kind of real challenge of we want you
as an industry, and your team wants you, and your
(23:33):
teammates want you to be tough in and under for
the ball back into the pack, put your life on
the line for your buddies. And that's a real that's
one version of what we want you to be. But
then you step off the field and the community asks
you to be the type of young men and men
who are really good partners, have really respect for relationships,
and sometimes that those things can feel tricky to navigate.
(23:54):
Whole industry of athletes, particularly during the AFL season, a
whole group of men standing together and saying we're coming
together and saying we're not happy with what's happening in
violence against women in this country. We stand together and
we're going to do our bit. That's really important. And I, personally,
as a person who's been a leader in this space
(24:16):
for a long time, no, it matters.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I didn't realize that my expectations that people don't make
jokes about rape, terrorism, slavery was so off kilter. But hey,
I'd expect that from a four year old. So I
don't know, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I mean, I do understand that they live in a
world where they are forever criticized. They are public figures.
There are some things that attract scrutiny when you are
a professional athlete of any variety that other people just
get away with. As in we thought about this earlier
with Sam kerr Yes and her incident of throwing up
(24:51):
in the cab and you know, being a little bit
abusive to not a little bit abusive. She called a
police officer a white bastard and that made international news. Yes,
so there are criticisms that come your way, but this
idea that we're expecting so much of adults in any
(25:11):
other context, I would lose my job.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Can you imagine for anyone there who's like, if you're
still on the fence about this and being like, oh,
I mean, I think that players need to be able
to let off some kind of stem.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Or missing Football's just such a big overreaction to the
huge AFL have to and they have. We've seen it
in the last twelve months, draw a line in the
sand to say this stuff's not okay.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
But it's virtue signaling no, but we are.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But we saw it with homosexual slurs throughout the year,
where usually they'd be allowed to just go on. The
sanctions actually became increasingly severe as the season went on
because basically, with the AFL standing up, going this isn't
acceptable anymore. And I think that what a lot of
(26:00):
people are saying and what the AFLPA came out and
said after Andrew Dillon made that his statement was this culture. God,
I hate using that word. Is something that's been allowed
to exist within AFL clubs and within sport for generations.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, their language is pretty hard. They're like, we have
not worked hard enough to change that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Actually, let's read that. We've got the statement. Now, this
is part of the statement made by the AFLPA, And
before they get into this particular exert of the statement
that we're going to read, they do say that they
think that the investigation didn't take due or fair course,
that the players were basically handed down sanctions and given
a really short turnaround time to accept it, that there
(26:42):
wren't support people. So the AFLPA, while they agreed that
the actions were reprehensible and that there needed to be consequences,
have since come out and said what sort of process
is in place for this? How are we meant to
make sure that this is fair and reasonable?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, and hopefully put out so it doesn't happen again. Yes,
I feel like a crazy person that I need to
say these.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Words, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So this is part of the station from AFLPA CEO
Pall Marsh. As an industry, we've had too many cultural
issues and we've not worked hard enough to set and
role model the standards expected. This does not excuse individual
choices and decisions, but they are not made in a vacuum.
For many years, the industry has walked past this type
of behavior and accepted it as part of footy culture.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm just going to read that again.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
For many years, the industry has walked past this type
of behavior and accepted it as part of footy culture.
This is the culture that we are all now responsible for.
We include players, clubs, the AFL, and the AFLPA in this.
For more than twelve months, the AFLPA has been trying
to work with the AFL to establish a joint committee
as agreed in last year's CBA, the Collective Bargaining Agreement
(27:51):
inclusive of players, experts and industry people, to address these
issues proactively and improve our industry. This is yet to happen.
I think if to go back to can you imagine
if the women's team did this?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
They wouldn't one.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
They wouldn't obviously, but can you imagine the type of
fans who have been yelling at us, being like, let
them have a break. Can you imagine what they would
be then saying to the marquee players of the GWS Giants.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Now every AFL team has an AFLW team attached, and
I wonder how uncomfortable it is for the AFLW players
who made a statement about this and how distressing it was.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Well, this is part of their statement because I do
want to touch on it. I think it's really important
because lots of the players from the Giants team have
gone on the record this week saying that they have
been really affected.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
By what's happened.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Of course, of course with their brother team, one big
happy family there at the Giants. So this is from
the AFLW captain, Rebecca Beeson. It is important that we
make it known that we were deeply hurt and angered
when learning of the behavior that occur playing the game
We love gives us a platform to speak to the community,
fans and young people. As the AFLW playing group, we
feel it is our great It is of great importance
(29:08):
to stress that the behavior that included references to gender
based violence is completely unacceptable under any circumstances. The values
of respect, diversity and inclusion are as important off the
field as they are on it. We look forward to
the afl playing group learning from this incident and as
a club, we are united in ensuring everyone feels safe
within our game. They have so much work to do
(29:30):
that men's team in order to rebuild this trust.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I think, well, you know what, the one thing I
will say is my experience with the Giants and their
leaders is they've always been respectful. I agree, that's been
my and in particular, Toby Green's a delightful person. So
I think that we can go so far as to
really and I think the AFL PA put it really well.
(29:53):
This is a societal and a cultural issue, and we
are persecuting a small group of people that yes, have
made a horrendous, disgraceful, disgusting misjudgment. But we have to
call out this behavior loudly as a society in order
to affect any change. And speaking of change, throughout the
(30:15):
AFL season this year, the AFL as an institution, brought
out a diversity clause for media in the way that
we cover sport, and even that received this big, woke,
loud background. And again the fact that women still represent
diversity when we're fifty percent of the population gets me.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
For me, women don't watch school.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
But but we also get you know, a conversation between
two white men on radio, one of them being Andrew Dillon,
where the host is essentially saying, but what about all
the middle aged white blokes that we have at this
network that call sport? What about them?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And Andrew Dillon, the.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Poor bloke is left there going We're not saying that
we're anti white men that have played sport. We're saying
we're at a stage where if we don't introduce a policy,
there's been no shift of the dial of representations of
minorities on air, so that when this stuff happens and
(31:18):
I listen to the radio and I turn on the TV,
it is not men talking about it. Yes, yes, because
that was the bit for me is I was like,
I want like someone be like I am filthy about this.
I want someone to go, I'm so angry about this.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, and you should be too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
And instead that's the conversation sort of deviated wider into
well this will end, mad mondays, dress ups are a
bit silly anyway, You're missing the point.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yes, yes, it's that because the point has.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Never affected you, and it's never made you feel like
you're not welcome here. You've never felt it.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Do you think that Andrew Dillon has handled this well.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
I'm such an advocate for him and his leadership.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I think he's done this very very well. I think
it was very important that they went into such detail
about what went down in that room. Yep, because of
all the speculation that was happening. Do you think people
learn from this?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, it's it's hard not to be cynical, it really
really is. But hey, we're calling for change, so we
have to therefore believe in it.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And if the institution itself, the AFL are calling it
out and saying we don't stand for it anymore, that's
the start.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
And I just want to take some time to just
give a little note to our female sports fans, our
female listeners, and just a reminder that sport is for you.
You cannot get keep sport. That was the whole reason
why Gelemy and I wanted to create this platform too.
Good sports and sport is for everyone to enjoy, for
everyone to love. So once again, when they go low,
(32:57):
stay high.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And we definitely at two good sports have made this
about gender, but there was also two other minorities, yes,
that were really awfully attacked in this in victims of
terrorism and also people that are ethnic in terms of
the Django Unchain skit, and we certainly don't want to
glaze over how painful that would have been for them,
(33:21):
but this is how it affected us. Oh, deep breaths,
It feels like deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
We realize that this has been a really heavy episode
of Two Good Sports. We think that it has had
to be. But because of that, we have a quick,
just a quick little fun fact.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Jell me take it away.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Jokes about rape, terrorism, and race are not funny.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's it. You can always follow two Good Sports on
Instagram at two Good Sports Podcasts. We'll catch you next week,
but until then, be a good sport.
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