June 3, 2024 • 34 mins
It’s no secret that rugby in Australia isn’t in great shape. But things just got worse for the game with the axing of the Melbourne Rebels. The club are no more, and won’t be competing in Super Rugby next season. Executives say they’re still committed to growing the sport in Victoria but the loss of the Rebels points to even bigger issues for rugby in Australia. So, with a home World Cup on the horizon in 2027, can the game bounce back?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode of Two Good Sports was recorded on Warundry
and gadaguland this land was never seated, always was always
will be. Hello and welcome to two Good Sports sports
news told differently. I am Georgie Tunny.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And I'm maybe Jelmy and I'm not dead, which is
brand new news to everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hi, geez back. Oh my goodness, dear listeners would know
I have missed you, Jelmy. Where the heck have you been?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
As you know, George, I had a really fun condition
called high premises gravidarum, which sounds like a sounds like
a Harry Potter spell. And if that spell is pregnancy
with a side of nausea, vomiting and not being able
to get out of bed, that's what it delivered. So yeah,
we're very excited to be welcoming number two later this year.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
A new good sport in the family, a new.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good sport to keep me busy. But it did.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's just unfortunate that for me the first trimester comes
with a side of hospital three times a week, not
being able to leave bed, and.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It was, To be honest, it was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It was horrific.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I feel like you're sugarcoating.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You're sugarcoating it somewhat like it sounds awful, but it
was genuinely so scary.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's horrible. Yeah, it's the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And those that have gone through highpremeses, I salute you,
And again I appreciate that I'm one of the fortunate
ones that it tends to be the first trimester, so
eight weeks of feeling like you might be dying, and
then I sort of come out of it, whereas for
some women it's the entire pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And yeah, it's just it's so grim. It's pretty grim.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But again I would go through it a million times
if it meant that we have a happy, healthy baby,
which at the moment it looks like we do.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So yeah, it's just really nice to be back.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But I just wanted to let everyone know that that's
why Georgy and producer James couldn't explain where I was.
And a big thank you to Nevo, who I was
jealous that the two of you are catching up without me,
but that's fine. That obviously stood in and yeah, I
just I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate the support,
which is where I'm getting into my good Sport of
the week, and my god, I'm going to try not
(02:13):
to cry here, but.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Georgie Tunney, you are the most amazing person.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And I think during this whole ordeal where you can't
really tell many people what's going on, I had some
wonderful friends say let me know if I could do anything.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Your message just said I'm on my way.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And the way that you show up for people, given
that you are the busiest person I know. I don't
know if we've been mates for over a decade now,
which shows that we're really old, but I I just
appreciate you so much. And my bad sport of the
week is on dere Brubeleff, so I stopped crying because
he gave about as many tears at the bloody French.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Open and needs to grow up.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But no, I appreciate it, and I appreciate you, and yeah,
thank you, and I'm bloody excited to talk about this
week's topic because it was fun to think about anything
other than vomiting.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So let's do it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh my god, you are so so gorgeous. Of course,
of course I was there. I very much and readily
accept your honor of good sport. Also a good sport
to Nevoens, who did step in as well when we
needed her. But jellmy, it's just so fricking good to
have you back. And can I say bad sport for hyperemesis.
I don't know if I've said it right, but you
get in the bin. Get in the bin that condition,
(03:22):
but also bad sport. Andre Rubelev take the floor, jellmy,
why are we mad at him? Well?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I just think he just genuinely was a bad sport.
He absolutely spat it at the French Open. And when
you talk about scales of tennis players losing it like
we used to broken rackets and it's.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
He was having a flat out tantrum, but at least
had the perspective that in the immediate post match was like,
that was bad. That was the worst that I've ever
performed and this is not okay. Yes I have a
good sport this week.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Jellmy, that's right for you. Yeah, it actually is, it
actually is. But can I just say this was not
planned because I didn't know you were going to say
such wonderful things about me. Thank you so much, but
I wanted my good sport is to my beloved Reese Walsh,
because he held a press conference that was basically talking
(04:19):
about how important his friendship with Paddy Carrigan, his Broncos teammate.
They're both Queensland teammates. They'll be playing in the State
of Origin, which is coming up. But he was talking
about his friendship with Patty and he got really emotional.
And I've got a little clip here because I just
love it. It's not something that new age man how
anyone's ever described Reese Walsh. Now now he's got his
(04:44):
nails painted, hold.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
On, but take it away, take it away, have a
little listen.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Yeah, he's massive a not just what he does for
me on the field. He you know, does a lot
for me off the field too, with my little one.
And that I'm going to be emotional, put me on
the bloody No, he's good. Every time a little one
sees him, she you know, lights up and you know
CAUs him, Michael Patty. So you know, our friendship's probably
more than just the rugby league one.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So yeah, normalize crying about your friends. Normalize. This is
our campaign because I tell you what, I've never seen
a press conference where someone other than when they're retiring.
But when a male athlete is just openly crying or
getting super emotional about one of their teammates on a
(05:29):
random I don't know if this was a Tuesday, but
let's call it tuesday. A random Tuesday for no other
reason than someone asks him, Hey, what's Patty like?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Like? What?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Love it? Love it? Good sport, good sport.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Thank you for joining us on two good tissues. It's
been a wonderful it. But we if you want to
have a cry. Melbourne Rebels fans understandably a pretty upset
this week, so we better get into our deep dive
because the Super Rugby franchises in Australia have gone from
five to four next year and we want to know why.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I mean, jeemy, keep the tissues out, I guess because
what a tale of woe we are bringing you today.
Because over the years, many many professional sports teams have
come and gone. That's just a fact of what is
a very very brutal competitive industry, whether it was the
expansion clubs failing to connect with local communities, teams running
(06:35):
into financial trouble, or sometimes, let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It is all of the above, option A, B and C.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It is it is sometimes teams just don't survive, and
Australia has one of the most competitive sports markets in
the world, especially in Melbourne. Just ask a Melbournian and
they will tell you that they are the sports capital
of the.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Cosmos, and potentially beyond that, we'd contest the universe.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But we'll take the Cosmos for now.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
To infinity and beyond that is every Melbournian when it
comes to them telling you about how much they love
their sport. Now, it's still rare enough that when we
do lose a team, though, it really is kind of
a big deal. And the latest club to get the
axe is the Super rugby team, the Melbourne Rebels. And
(07:25):
tell me not gonna lie. Let's be honest for our
dear listeners, because that is what we can always promise
to do and promise to be. If you are there
listening to us right now, thinking now, hold on a second,
which ones are the Rebels? What do they do well?
That probably explains a lot, and that's probably why they
have not been able to survive.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I think a lot of people couldn't draw for you
a Rebels guernsey. Oh yes, in Melbourne, Like if you've
got the texts out and said, give us.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
An idea of the colors. They wouldn't know. And it's
not the rebel true fault.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
There's a general apathy towards rugby union in Australia right now,
be it the Wallabies or Super Rugby.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It's real.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's tangible, or at the very least it's not tangible
because the care just isn't there. And it can probably
best be highlighted by the void of media coverage and
outrage and the news that the rebels were being axed,
because as much as it was sort of there, it
certainly wasn't the main feature on the back page the
day of the announcement.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I know that we were actually surprised, Jellmy, because we,
as investigative journalists, did our due diligence and found the
back pages of the newspapers in Melbourne and went to
be like, now, how far do we have to turn
back before we see this rebels news? And it was
to be fair to them on the back page, but
it was a postage stamp, like it was so tiny,
hidden in a corner.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Because an AFL player had sneezed that day and it
was blown up on the back page. So it is
as we said, it is a competitive market. But the
thing that just makes this really ironically tragic is for
the first time in their fourteen year history, the Rebels
are into.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
The post series. They've made the finals for the first time.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
They've been punching up because over their fourteen seasons their
win record has been thirty two percent. It hasn't been
a happy hunting time for the Rebels. They haven't been
an overly successful team. And the one thing that we
know about Australians is we like winning. If your win,
we're gonna get on board.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
We're a bet of a fairweather fan base, aren't we
like We love We love everything, love everything. If there
was a paint drying competition, we're gonna watch it so
long as we win.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We've just likened rugby to paint drying. That's where we've
got to this point. But at Two Good Sports, we
did commit at the start of this that the premise
was if there was a sports headline that's been glossed
over and you haven't really had the nitty gritty explained,
Georgie and I are here to explain it to you.
So we are going to go into a deep dive
of exactly what is going on with the Rebels and
(09:53):
why they've come to a demise. Why is it that,
for whatever reason rugby couldn't survive at the highest level
in Victoria when there are so many sports fans here.
But what's next for super rugby and why does it
seem that the system is a little bit broken compared
to that of AFL but perhaps the better comparison NRL
(10:13):
because rugby league didn't have a huge following here in
Victoria before the Storm became a massive hit and by
hit I mean the trophy cabinet.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It is a full.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
They really really are the prime example of success equating
to loyalty, Like if you can win, you can bring
fans along for the journey, you can build a bandwagon
for them to jump upon. And the Melbourne Storm because
the club has had great success in how it's run,
(10:43):
They've had great success in who they've chosen as a coach,
They've got great systems in place. They have invested to
keep those systems going and therefore the success has lasted,
it's been sustained and that's something that really I would say,
oh most of every rugby union team in Australia based
(11:03):
in Australia has not been able to do and the
Rebels are just the latest example of that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
But let's give you a snapshot of Super Rugby for
those of you who may or may not be disconnected
with the league, because let's be honest, it gets zero
coverage here in Australia. There are twelve teams, five of
which are Australian.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, and which if we put that comparatively right, five
Australian teams part of this competition. I mean the NRAL
I know it is, and the AFL are Australian leagues,
but that's them competing with seventeen teams in the NRL
eighteen teams in the AFL.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Slightly different, slightly than one couldn't exist in Victoria. But
it's an eighteen week competition, ninety one matches in total.
The teams play fourteen regular season matches each to host seven.
But the competition basically happens across the world, and we
at the moment in the scope of their season, are
on the verge of the finals. Yes, so it's a
really intense time in Super Rugby. And again the Rebels
(11:57):
are about to play in their first finals ever, so yeah,
my heart just goes out to the players who are
now thinking what does next year look like. But the
Rebels were established in two thousand and nine and played
their first season of Super Rugby in twenty eleven. Their
home is at Amy Park, of which if you're not
familiar with Melbourne, it is in the.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Right hub of AFL A league.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
There's so much sport that happens in that one packet's
across the road from John Cane Arena, which is where
the basketball's played. If you're going to watch sport in
that little circle near the mcg, I mean you've even
got the o's open there. They're right in the thick
of it.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And so this for me is something which I find
very interesting is that the Rebels part of what has
led to their ultimately their demise now because there's an
argument to say that, you know, they have struggled for
their whole fourteen seasons and this is technically their most
successful season because they are going to be playing finals
(12:53):
for the first time, But they have so much debt,
they have spent so much money, they have cost Rugby
Australia so much money. When news broke that they were
finally going to be disbanded and they were making the
call that no, we are not going to continue with
this franchise. I think it was like twenty three million
(13:14):
dollars worth of debt that the Melbourne Rebels were in
that Rugby Australia was like, we cannot continue to prop
you up. And when that news broke they went into
liquidation in January of this year. So again they're trying
to remember when the Super Rugby Pacific season was starting.
That's what this competition is called because there's teams from
New Zealand and also Fiji part of it. But they
(13:37):
were trying to boost the coverage of that.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You talk about how there's no media coverage gentmy, and
that's because arguably there's no good news stories. And that's
crazy when you think you have a Fijian team that
wins a lot of the time and that's such a
good news story when.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It comes to and the community shots are always incredible. Yes,
if you go to the Fijian communities and you look
at the games and the kid it's made for Tellion,
but perhaps not made for Australian television.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yes yes, but it should be. It should be. We
should be wanting to follow these human stories, but they
can never fight their way to a headline because you're
talking about the disastrous things that are happening, like the
Melbourne Rebels going into liquidation at the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And the fact that the auditing giant PwC found out
that not only were they twenty three million dollars in debt,
they had seventeen thousand, three hundred dollars in the bank,
which doesn't get your car these days, and a handful
of assets. And Rugby Australia at that point took over
the competition license and to their credit, so at the
time of liquidation all of the employees got made redundant.
(14:39):
Rugby Australia then incurred the cost of putting eighty percent
of those people back on, also paid out the player
contracts and said, right, something needs to happen here, especially
because of the debt owing to the tax office to
the tune of eleven point five million dollars. And the
tax office doesn't care about the romanticism whether a club
lives or dies. They just want to know that it's
financial viable and one point one four million is owed
(15:04):
to Melbourne and the Olympic Park Trust to operate and
own Amy Park and they be sitting back saying rid, oh,
what is the plan here? So in early May and
this is the clincher, business magnate Lee Clifford was brought
in to lead a private equity consortium that promised to
pump I've heard it's up to the tune of eighteen
million into the club to keep it surviving beyond twenty
(15:25):
twenty five. And this consortium was claiming that they were
basically we're going to come in, We're going to save it.
There's going to be a bargaining agreement, We've got all this,
We're going to raise money and capital. Let's save the rebels.
So Rugby Australia, according to CEO Phil War said they
needed to address five key areas financial viability, bloody important,
governance and risk, commercial strategy, high performance which is a
(15:48):
massive one, and growth of the game. Yeah, and growth
of the game is the one that Rugby Australia keep
coming back to because honestly, with where there are at
the moment, it is dire across rugby in Australia at
the moment. So they need to start from the ground
up and grow the game, but it seems to be
a consistent story within Rugby that the funds are asked
(16:12):
for in certain areas, and that was one of the
arguments that has now come out about the rebels saying well,
RA said they were going to support certain programs that
they weren't financially back to the level that they were.
Because this all came to a head last Wednesday when
the consortium, so the big business that came together saying
we're going to fix this, invited Rugby Australia into an
(16:33):
online data room in the most twenty twenty four sentence
I've ever said, to view documents addressing the points and
outlining basically their plan to rescue the club. The proposal
was supported by the administrator, so that liquidation company were like, yeah,
we can get around this, but Rugby Australia and the
ATO voted against the deal at the creditors meeting, and
(16:53):
the news broke on Thursday that the club would be
act So they had a meeting and essentially said look,
we can see what you've tried to do here, but
this isn't viable and among the issues, the modeling showed
that the new consortium would be loss making until twenty thirty.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
And that's key, right because I mean you're talking about
a bankrupt club essentially, but you are also talking about
a league and a code that is financially really really struggling,
so they actually just can't afford to have it take
that long.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And it also meant RA needed to issue a license
again and they were like, we're just not so sure
about this.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So there were layers to it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
But according to RA, the Rebels have never been independently
financially stable, which is what you said, George, Like, when
we talk about this, you could argue that it dated
back fourteen years and this has all been an experiment
by Rugby Australia to see how rugby would go in Melbourne.
But they're just not convinced that with this new consortium
that it's going to work. And Phil Wore, who's the
(17:50):
CEO of Rugby Australia, who has spoken the poor bloke.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
He has had a lot of press conferences where he's
had to.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
He's new, he's a new CEO, he's a Wallaby's legend,
took over the sinking ship and my god, have he
already been making his money because he has been in
front of a camera more often than.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Not, and a really fun fact.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
In their first game fourteen years ago he played against them.
He was playing for the Wartars against the Rebels. Great
as well, who has been entrenched in this from the beginning.
Phil War obviously wants the success of rugby and he
was speaking on sen and he was very candid about
the fact that they were still going to be growing
(18:31):
rugby and Victoria. We're not forgetting about Victoria. It's just
that we need to be responsible and here was the summary.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Of his argument.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
We'll still be putting a lot of rugby content into Melbourne.
So we had eighty four thousand people at the Birthslay
Cup at the MCG last year. We got the two
of two lines games in Melbourne in twenty twenty five,
and then we've got a Rugby World Cup, so we'll
still be seeing world class rugby in Melbourne. I think,
as I said since taking on the CEO role, we
(19:02):
need to be fiscally responsible as the governing body. My
role in leading Ruggy Australia to ensure that we're making
sensible commercial decisions and the cost for us to run
the Rebels from as Rugby Australia in twenty twenty five
was too high and the financial risks with the assumptions
(19:24):
in the Consortium's proposal were too high, which left us
with no other choice but to remove that risk and
ensure that the game is well set up for the
future across the country, which will include Victoria.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Do you know what it makes sense? It makes sense right?
What are you saying there? I think completely makes sense.
But what it makes me think about is when you
bring the British and Irish Lions to Australia next year
and you're going to have them play a game in Victoria.
When we are hosting the Rugby World Cup in twenty
twenty seven and twenty twenty nine our women, and you're
(20:01):
going to be having games and maybe finals being hosted
by Victoria. If I mean, we can only hope. Let's
manifest if Australian teams did well and the Wallaby somehow
won those ventures right, and you engaged a Victorian audience
and they thought great, how can I support rugby in
(20:22):
this country? You've taken away the team, You've taken away
their access to that there's not going to be a
pathway for them to readily jump aboard and beyond that bandwagon.
There's no bandwagon now.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean it's such a run and jump to think
that Australia is going to be a success at a
World Cup given what we've witnessed.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I mean I called, I said they're going to win
the Bledislo this year, which they still could.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I mean, you do make some outrageous calls. And the
fact you just repeated that I wouldn't be if I
was you.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
But that's fine.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But okay, So we've heard from Rugby Australia essentially saying
what the consortium put forward had too many risk factors.
We just aren't in a position we need to be responsible.
What are the rebels saying, Because if you listen to
executives and all the whispers that we're hearing out of
the rebels, this is far from over in their minds,
and that they had a very fair and they thought
valid proposal to be able to save the club. So
(21:11):
this is the rebels Director of Rugby, Nick styles on
Sen discussing, and this was something that I found interesting.
Why is there a different setup for rugby Union or
Super Rugby then there is for NRL and AFL And
what does that actually look like?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So let's have a listen.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Rugby Australia looked at the sort of consortium and felt
they weren't weren't financially back to the extent that they
probably needed to be. And and they've said there was
a few things there and governance that they didn't know.
But for me, we need to look at different models
at the moment. As I've said before, you know, every
team in Australia is struggling financially. The model in Australian
(21:51):
rugby is that, you know, Rugby Australia sits over the
top of everyone and then each state effectively owns it team.
And we're in a confederated governance model in Australian rugby.
And I think that the sporting codes that have really
progressed forward in AFL and NRL have changed that federated
(22:15):
model into more of a system where there's a commission
that drives the game forward. And the model is I
believe broken, and this is probably disappointing that we had
a different, different setup that was being proposed that could
really change.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
The game, a confederation model where the states don't agree. George,
you remember that episode we did on swimming Australia.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh, it is given a swim in Australia, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And the fact that nothing could really be done or
they were just in stalemates because they had their own
vested interests rather than overall overarching commercial viability. And we
just compared, perhaps unfairly Rugby Australia to AFL. But as
of twenty twenty two, Rugby Australia's revenue was one hundred
and twenty nine million, and I think that would be
enerous compared to twenty twenty four it was just fourteen
(23:03):
percent that of the AFLs that year, my god, which
is nine hundred and forty four million.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Nearly a billion dollars. I feel that for Nick Styles there,
director of rugby at the Melbourne Rebels what I of
course he has to fight for this team, right because
it's his livelihood, it's his staff's livelihood, it's a player's livelihood.
So of course I expect that of him. What I
wanted to see there or hear there was some kind
of responsibility being taken as well too, right because the
(23:31):
club itself, he can be talking about all the plans
that they have in place for them to build and
eventually that's the key word, eventually obtain financial sustainability. But
this has been a lemon, a financial lemon for the
last fourteen years. It has had hand out to this team.
So where has that money gone? There has to be
some level of mismanagement which I don't actually think has
(23:54):
been truly acknowledged by the Rebels Cohort themselves when we
go to thinking about a a federation now and what
needs to be a complete overhaul essentially of how rugby
union is run in this country and if you are
looking for a more centralized model. Again, I don't see
any evidence that the teams themselves, so those major stakeholders
(24:16):
are on board. Maybe in New South Wales with the
New South Wales Warritors we're seeing that, But I mean
in WA so they've also been taken over by Ray,
that's the thing. Yeah, but you talk about WA right,
the Force like that was another team that was axed
in twenty seventeen. They're now back after COVID. They were
able to get their way back into the competition when
(24:36):
it changed.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
To COVID after tweety Forrest was like, no, you don't,
here is my wallet's everything?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Take them back. But they are right in some extent. Well,
their argument is it's like, well we have very different
factors right in Wa. As you would know Jelby, Wa
likes to see itself as a different state. I can
say that because I'm Queensland and Queenslanders think the same
thing as a different country rather not at a different state.
But there's still so much miscommunication. I'm not seeing anyone
that's truly willing to help themselves and help each other out.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
The one thing they universally agree on, and that Nick
Styles did stay at the start of that interview was
rugby Australia and rugby in Australia is struggling and they
have a lot of issues and rugby Australia is in
a really difficult position.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And I think that that is universally accepted.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And what else is universally accepted and we're yet to
find out, is no one can.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Afford for this to go to court. Oh yeah, because
court means money.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
There's a rumor that it might actually happen, right, that
they'll contest this.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Phil War's gone. Well, let's ideally not.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
When the premise of this is that we want we
want the money that we were going to put forward
for the Rebels if we were to bolster this team
to actually go into grassroots rugby where it's desperately needed.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And any money.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Towards this process that takes away from grassroots is detrimental
to growing our game, which we have decided after a
long period, and these were his words of trying to
be everything to everyone, we've failed and we now need
to turn around and go how can we best invest
what we do have in making success for rugby going forward?
(26:20):
And my goodness, do they have to have one eye
on a World Cup in twenty twenty seven And the
fact that finally, finally, we need to start having good
news stories about rugby in Australia because you know, for
a podcast that's been running for a couple of seasons,
we sound like rugby bashes absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Just actually, do you know who does? Do you know
who gives us something happy to talk about the women's
teams and rugby women's teams because the Olympics, Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So good from you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Because it is really important to note that the Rebels
women's team is separate to.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
This, yes, and there's a chance that is going to survive.
They will keep propping that up and I hope that
they do, but also pulls into focus about how once
again women have to save the day. They got to
save the day. So when it comes to the Paris Olympics,
our rugby seven's team, bloody hell, if they win gold,
that is the best pr that they could possibly do
(27:17):
to help their male counterparts, I'll tell you what. And
also the rugby in terms of the women's fifteens team,
they are the perfect example of building a love for
the game because you talk about good news stories that
comes when you love the game. And right now with
the state of rugby union in Australia that has got lost,
there are no pathways because it is really really hard
(27:38):
right There's no dreams that administrators have, the officials, the
people at the helm have been able to build for
all the juniors coming through that they want to chase
because the product itself. We saw that at the World
Cup last year. The Wallabies looked dead in the eyes
when they got thumped by Whales, and so.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
You're dead in the We all did.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
We all did, But that's just showing that everyone. It
doesn't look like a fun game to play, so why
would it be a fun game to watch?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think the thing that's most harrowing for me is
that they had us and they've lost us in one generation.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Australians are disengaged in the game.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And the good thing is it's happened in such a
short period of time that hopefully the snapback can be
just a swift yeah, because hopefully you've still got the
guernsey somewhere.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It might not fit anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But Draff, you can dig it out because they were really,
really wonderful times and it is a great game.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
But if you do somehow, if you're one of the
few people that have the Melbourne Rebels jersey, unfortunately, this
is not your time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It's a collector's item.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It's a collector's item. Hey, you might come back. The
fourth came back. There could be there could be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And our thoughts are with the Rebels players because can
you imagine they're in Fiji at the moment. They played
the final round and they got belt. They've now lost
five games in a row as well, so it's just
not been a happy time. But they have qualified for
the finals, so they have made the Final eight. They're
going to be making their first appearance. But it's just
such an unnerving time and again. It's not a great
(29:15):
advertisement to get into rugby in Australia.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
No, no, it's not, and that's why they need things
that they need to turn things around quickly and hopefully, hopefully,
if we'll take a realistic lens of this, maybe cutting
off such a financial suck could help.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Short of Rugby Australia burning down.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I promise you, our dear two good sports listeners, our
next rugby story is going to be upbeat.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's gonna be upbeat or nothing. I'm bringing bringing positivity.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
We will do some sort of Olympic special on how
amazing our rugby sevens are and if the Fijians win,
we're going to tell you how great the Fijians are
because we, despite what you may believe from all evidence
suggesting the country, we don't want to be rugby bashes.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
It's just that these are.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The headlines that we've had to explain to you over
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And we are hopeful. Damn.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I'm going to go so far as say we are
optimistic that the Wallabies and Rugby Australia can turn this around.
With the calendar that we have on the horizon, continue
bringing rugby to Melbourne. Maybe not at a super rugby level,
but I just think, you know what, I'm going to
vote with my feet next time the Wallabies are here,
I'm going to go to all game Georgia.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You're welcome to come produce it. I will bring your hat.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
And I think that we need to start going and
engaging and be the difference that you want to see.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Tell me my gift to you on your return. It's
your favorite time.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
A love a fun fact?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
You know this?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
How did you know she loves a fun fact?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well, jellmy, this is a special one because it is
on brand, on theme, because that's what we do here.
In June two thousand and nine, Wallabies flanker Phil Wore,
who if you've been listening, dear listener, is now the
Rugby Australia CEO was named in the Australian team. So
the Wallabies that was set to face the Barbarians. Isn't
(31:19):
that a great name? It's a stunning name, the Barbarians
in Sydney. It makes me hand them.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
The Rebels and the Crusaders at a pub. You feel
like you need to go hear ye, hear ye?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
How good? How good? I was thinking of Gladiator. It
was like, please welcome the Barbarian hold and you're like, no,
Russell Crowe, please survive.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Anyway, Russell Crowe would have been great at rugby side
note Oh yes, I mean I know that he's mister League.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
He could have Seister League.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, I know, I could sid sidebar Now you've got
me thinking, I'm like, oh yeah, maybe he could be
a flanker. So the Barbarians, yes, great name, but they're
essentially an All Stars team right Like in my mind
it's kind of like if the All Australian team actually
played a game.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Still point, still point that we don't have Stadia and
All Stars, but sure.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
They have the world right to choose their players from.
And this is how elite this team is. So the
Wallabies we're going to be taking on the Barbarians. In
two thousand and nine, Phil war was going to play
for the Wallabies, but such was his form that Phil
was also named in the Barbarian side, so he had
a choice to make.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
He's been invited to two weddings, which one is the
rsvping too his.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Own or his best mates?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Which one which I mean obviously because he ends up
CEO of Rugby Australia.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Australia took preference right.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Ahaha, No, no, Phil took the once in a lifetime
opportunity to play for the Barbarians against the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Ah So the issues with rugby Australia can date back
to June two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Oh I should you and I have had.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
A bit to do with Phil wore back in our
foss school stage and he is a delightful human being
and we only wish him more upbeat press conferences in
the future.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Will I now call him Barbarian? Sure?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Sure, sure, because fun fact he decided to play against
the Wallabies and be in the Barbarians. I love that
it was a one off match, but I love it.
I love it so much.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I Phil, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Hi Phil, give us a call if he need some help.
Jell me. Welcome back, Welcome back. It's been so nice
having you back.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
And also sure it was more orderly without me.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I'm sure the edit was easier without us just absolutely
losing it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
But this is I've missed it terribly. It's so nice
to be back.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Thank you for listening to two Good Sports. As always,
please follow us on Instagram if you haven't already. What
are you doing at two Good sports podcasts and make
sure you do. Subscribe to the show, follow the show,
and leave us reviews. We'd love to know what you think,
but please let them be positive. Reviews positive. Thank you
so much. We'll catch you next week, but until then,
be a good sport.
This episode of Two Good Sports was recorded on Warundry
and gadaguland this land was never seated, always was always
will be. Hello and welcome to two Good Sports sports
news told differently. I am Georgie Tunny.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And I'm maybe Jelmy and I'm not dead, which is
brand new news to everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hi, geez back. Oh my goodness, dear listeners would know
I have missed you, Jelmy. Where the heck have you been?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
As you know, George, I had a really fun condition
called high premises gravidarum, which sounds like a sounds like
a Harry Potter spell. And if that spell is pregnancy
with a side of nausea, vomiting and not being able
to get out of bed, that's what it delivered. So yeah,
we're very excited to be welcoming number two later this year.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
A new good sport in the family, a new.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Good sport to keep me busy. But it did.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's just unfortunate that for me the first trimester comes
with a side of hospital three times a week, not
being able to leave bed, and.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It was, To be honest, it was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It was horrific.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I feel like you're sugarcoating.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
You're sugarcoating it somewhat like it sounds awful, but it
was genuinely so scary.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
It's horrible. Yeah, it's the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And those that have gone through highpremeses, I salute you,
And again I appreciate that I'm one of the fortunate
ones that it tends to be the first trimester, so
eight weeks of feeling like you might be dying, and
then I sort of come out of it, whereas for
some women it's the entire pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And yeah, it's just it's so grim. It's pretty grim.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But again I would go through it a million times
if it meant that we have a happy, healthy baby,
which at the moment it looks like we do.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So yeah, it's just really nice to be back.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But I just wanted to let everyone know that that's
why Georgy and producer James couldn't explain where I was.
And a big thank you to Nevo, who I was
jealous that the two of you are catching up without me,
but that's fine. That obviously stood in and yeah, I
just I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate the support,
which is where I'm getting into my good Sport of
the week, and my god, I'm going to try not
(02:13):
to cry here, but.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Georgie Tunney, you are the most amazing person.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And I think during this whole ordeal where you can't
really tell many people what's going on, I had some
wonderful friends say let me know if I could do anything.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Your message just said I'm on my way.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And the way that you show up for people, given
that you are the busiest person I know. I don't
know if we've been mates for over a decade now,
which shows that we're really old, but I I just
appreciate you so much. And my bad sport of the
week is on dere Brubeleff, so I stopped crying because
he gave about as many tears at the bloody French.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Open and needs to grow up.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But no, I appreciate it, and I appreciate you, and yeah,
thank you, and I'm bloody excited to talk about this
week's topic because it was fun to think about anything
other than vomiting.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
So let's do it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Oh my god, you are so so gorgeous. Of course,
of course I was there. I very much and readily
accept your honor of good sport. Also a good sport
to Nevoens, who did step in as well when we
needed her. But jellmy, it's just so fricking good to
have you back. And can I say bad sport for hyperemesis.
I don't know if I've said it right, but you
get in the bin. Get in the bin that condition,
(03:22):
but also bad sport. Andre Rubelev take the floor, jellmy,
why are we mad at him? Well?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I just think he just genuinely was a bad sport.
He absolutely spat it at the French Open. And when
you talk about scales of tennis players losing it like
we used to broken rackets and it's.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
He was having a flat out tantrum, but at least
had the perspective that in the immediate post match was like,
that was bad. That was the worst that I've ever
performed and this is not okay. Yes I have a
good sport this week.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Jellmy, that's right for you. Yeah, it actually is, it
actually is. But can I just say this was not
planned because I didn't know you were going to say
such wonderful things about me. Thank you so much, but
I wanted my good sport is to my beloved Reese Walsh,
because he held a press conference that was basically talking
(04:19):
about how important his friendship with Paddy Carrigan, his Broncos teammate.
They're both Queensland teammates. They'll be playing in the State
of Origin, which is coming up. But he was talking
about his friendship with Patty and he got really emotional.
And I've got a little clip here because I just
love it. It's not something that new age man how
anyone's ever described Reese Walsh. Now now he's got his
(04:44):
nails painted, hold.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
On, but take it away, take it away, have a
little listen.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Yeah, he's massive a not just what he does for
me on the field. He you know, does a lot
for me off the field too, with my little one.
And that I'm going to be emotional, put me on
the bloody No, he's good. Every time a little one
sees him, she you know, lights up and you know
CAUs him, Michael Patty. So you know, our friendship's probably
more than just the rugby league one.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So yeah, normalize crying about your friends. Normalize. This is
our campaign because I tell you what, I've never seen
a press conference where someone other than when they're retiring.
But when a male athlete is just openly crying or
getting super emotional about one of their teammates on a
(05:29):
random I don't know if this was a Tuesday, but
let's call it tuesday. A random Tuesday for no other
reason than someone asks him, Hey, what's Patty like?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Like? What?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Love it? Love it? Good sport, good sport.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Thank you for joining us on two good tissues. It's
been a wonderful it. But we if you want to
have a cry. Melbourne Rebels fans understandably a pretty upset
this week, so we better get into our deep dive
because the Super Rugby franchises in Australia have gone from
five to four next year and we want to know why.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I mean, jeemy, keep the tissues out, I guess because
what a tale of woe we are bringing you today.
Because over the years, many many professional sports teams have
come and gone. That's just a fact of what is
a very very brutal competitive industry, whether it was the
expansion clubs failing to connect with local communities, teams running
(06:35):
into financial trouble, or sometimes, let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It is all of the above, option A, B and C.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It is it is sometimes teams just don't survive, and
Australia has one of the most competitive sports markets in
the world, especially in Melbourne. Just ask a Melbournian and
they will tell you that they are the sports capital
of the.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Cosmos, and potentially beyond that, we'd contest the universe.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But we'll take the Cosmos for now.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
To infinity and beyond that is every Melbournian when it
comes to them telling you about how much they love
their sport. Now, it's still rare enough that when we
do lose a team, though, it really is kind of
a big deal. And the latest club to get the
axe is the Super rugby team, the Melbourne Rebels. And
(07:25):
tell me not gonna lie. Let's be honest for our
dear listeners, because that is what we can always promise
to do and promise to be. If you are there
listening to us right now, thinking now, hold on a second,
which ones are the Rebels? What do they do well?
That probably explains a lot, and that's probably why they
have not been able to survive.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I think a lot of people couldn't draw for you
a Rebels guernsey. Oh yes, in Melbourne, Like if you've
got the texts out and said, give us.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
An idea of the colors. They wouldn't know. And it's
not the rebel true fault.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
There's a general apathy towards rugby union in Australia right now,
be it the Wallabies or Super Rugby.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
It's real.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It's tangible, or at the very least it's not tangible
because the care just isn't there. And it can probably
best be highlighted by the void of media coverage and
outrage and the news that the rebels were being axed,
because as much as it was sort of there, it
certainly wasn't the main feature on the back page the
day of the announcement.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I know that we were actually surprised, Jellmy, because we,
as investigative journalists, did our due diligence and found the
back pages of the newspapers in Melbourne and went to
be like, now, how far do we have to turn
back before we see this rebels news? And it was
to be fair to them on the back page, but
it was a postage stamp, like it was so tiny,
hidden in a corner.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Because an AFL player had sneezed that day and it
was blown up on the back page. So it is
as we said, it is a competitive market. But the
thing that just makes this really ironically tragic is for
the first time in their fourteen year history, the Rebels
are into.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
The post series. They've made the finals for the first time.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
They've been punching up because over their fourteen seasons their
win record has been thirty two percent. It hasn't been
a happy hunting time for the Rebels. They haven't been
an overly successful team. And the one thing that we
know about Australians is we like winning. If your win,
we're gonna get on board.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
We're a bet of a fairweather fan base, aren't we
like We love We love everything, love everything. If there
was a paint drying competition, we're gonna watch it so
long as we win.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
We've just likened rugby to paint drying. That's where we've
got to this point. But at Two Good Sports, we
did commit at the start of this that the premise
was if there was a sports headline that's been glossed
over and you haven't really had the nitty gritty explained,
Georgie and I are here to explain it to you.
So we are going to go into a deep dive
of exactly what is going on with the Rebels and
(09:53):
why they've come to a demise. Why is it that,
for whatever reason rugby couldn't survive at the highest level
in Victoria when there are so many sports fans here.
But what's next for super rugby and why does it
seem that the system is a little bit broken compared
to that of AFL but perhaps the better comparison NRL
(10:13):
because rugby league didn't have a huge following here in
Victoria before the Storm became a massive hit and by
hit I mean the trophy cabinet.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
It is a full.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
They really really are the prime example of success equating
to loyalty, Like if you can win, you can bring
fans along for the journey, you can build a bandwagon
for them to jump upon. And the Melbourne Storm because
the club has had great success in how it's run,
(10:43):
They've had great success in who they've chosen as a coach,
They've got great systems in place. They have invested to
keep those systems going and therefore the success has lasted,
it's been sustained and that's something that really I would say,
oh most of every rugby union team in Australia based
(11:03):
in Australia has not been able to do and the
Rebels are just the latest example of that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
But let's give you a snapshot of Super Rugby for
those of you who may or may not be disconnected
with the league, because let's be honest, it gets zero
coverage here in Australia. There are twelve teams, five of
which are Australian.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, and which if we put that comparatively right, five
Australian teams part of this competition. I mean the NRAL
I know it is, and the AFL are Australian leagues,
but that's them competing with seventeen teams in the NRL
eighteen teams in the AFL.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Slightly different, slightly than one couldn't exist in Victoria. But
it's an eighteen week competition, ninety one matches in total.
The teams play fourteen regular season matches each to host seven.
But the competition basically happens across the world, and we
at the moment in the scope of their season, are
on the verge of the finals. Yes, so it's a
really intense time in Super Rugby. And again the Rebels
(11:57):
are about to play in their first finals ever, so yeah,
my heart just goes out to the players who are
now thinking what does next year look like. But the
Rebels were established in two thousand and nine and played
their first season of Super Rugby in twenty eleven. Their
home is at Amy Park, of which if you're not
familiar with Melbourne, it is in the.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Right hub of AFL A league.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
There's so much sport that happens in that one packet's
across the road from John Cane Arena, which is where
the basketball's played. If you're going to watch sport in
that little circle near the mcg, I mean you've even
got the o's open there. They're right in the thick
of it.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And so this for me is something which I find
very interesting is that the Rebels part of what has
led to their ultimately their demise now because there's an
argument to say that, you know, they have struggled for
their whole fourteen seasons and this is technically their most
successful season because they are going to be playing finals
(12:53):
for the first time, But they have so much debt,
they have spent so much money, they have cost Rugby
Australia so much money. When news broke that they were
finally going to be disbanded and they were making the
call that no, we are not going to continue with
this franchise. I think it was like twenty three million
(13:14):
dollars worth of debt that the Melbourne Rebels were in
that Rugby Australia was like, we cannot continue to prop
you up. And when that news broke they went into
liquidation in January of this year. So again they're trying
to remember when the Super Rugby Pacific season was starting.
That's what this competition is called because there's teams from
New Zealand and also Fiji part of it. But they
(13:37):
were trying to boost the coverage of that.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You talk about how there's no media coverage gentmy, and
that's because arguably there's no good news stories. And that's
crazy when you think you have a Fijian team that
wins a lot of the time and that's such a
good news story when.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It comes to and the community shots are always incredible. Yes,
if you go to the Fijian communities and you look
at the games and the kid it's made for Tellion,
but perhaps not made for Australian television.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yes yes, but it should be. It should be. We
should be wanting to follow these human stories, but they
can never fight their way to a headline because you're
talking about the disastrous things that are happening, like the
Melbourne Rebels going into liquidation at the start of the season.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And the fact that the auditing giant PwC found out
that not only were they twenty three million dollars in debt,
they had seventeen thousand, three hundred dollars in the bank,
which doesn't get your car these days, and a handful
of assets. And Rugby Australia at that point took over
the competition license and to their credit, so at the
time of liquidation all of the employees got made redundant.
(14:39):
Rugby Australia then incurred the cost of putting eighty percent
of those people back on, also paid out the player
contracts and said, right, something needs to happen here, especially
because of the debt owing to the tax office to
the tune of eleven point five million dollars. And the
tax office doesn't care about the romanticism whether a club
lives or dies. They just want to know that it's
financial viable and one point one four million is owed
(15:04):
to Melbourne and the Olympic Park Trust to operate and
own Amy Park and they be sitting back saying rid, oh,
what is the plan here? So in early May and
this is the clincher, business magnate Lee Clifford was brought
in to lead a private equity consortium that promised to
pump I've heard it's up to the tune of eighteen
million into the club to keep it surviving beyond twenty
(15:25):
twenty five. And this consortium was claiming that they were
basically we're going to come in, We're going to save it.
There's going to be a bargaining agreement, We've got all this,
We're going to raise money and capital. Let's save the rebels.
So Rugby Australia, according to CEO Phil War said they
needed to address five key areas financial viability, bloody important,
governance and risk, commercial strategy, high performance which is a
(15:48):
massive one, and growth of the game. Yeah, and growth
of the game is the one that Rugby Australia keep
coming back to because honestly, with where there are at
the moment, it is dire across rugby in Australia at
the moment. So they need to start from the ground
up and grow the game, but it seems to be
a consistent story within Rugby that the funds are asked
(16:12):
for in certain areas, and that was one of the
arguments that has now come out about the rebels saying well,
RA said they were going to support certain programs that
they weren't financially back to the level that they were.
Because this all came to a head last Wednesday when
the consortium, so the big business that came together saying
we're going to fix this, invited Rugby Australia into an
(16:33):
online data room in the most twenty twenty four sentence
I've ever said, to view documents addressing the points and
outlining basically their plan to rescue the club. The proposal
was supported by the administrator, so that liquidation company were like, yeah,
we can get around this, but Rugby Australia and the
ATO voted against the deal at the creditors meeting, and
(16:53):
the news broke on Thursday that the club would be
act So they had a meeting and essentially said look,
we can see what you've tried to do here, but
this isn't viable and among the issues, the modeling showed
that the new consortium would be loss making until twenty thirty.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
And that's key, right because I mean you're talking about
a bankrupt club essentially, but you are also talking about
a league and a code that is financially really really struggling,
so they actually just can't afford to have it take
that long.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And it also meant RA needed to issue a license
again and they were like, we're just not so sure
about this.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So there were layers to it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
But according to RA, the Rebels have never been independently
financially stable, which is what you said, George, Like, when
we talk about this, you could argue that it dated
back fourteen years and this has all been an experiment
by Rugby Australia to see how rugby would go in Melbourne.
But they're just not convinced that with this new consortium
that it's going to work. And Phil Wore, who's the
(17:50):
CEO of Rugby Australia, who has spoken the poor bloke.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
He has had a lot of press conferences where he's
had to.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
He's new, he's a new CEO, he's a Wallaby's legend,
took over the sinking ship and my god, have he
already been making his money because he has been in
front of a camera more often than.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Not, and a really fun fact.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
In their first game fourteen years ago he played against them.
He was playing for the Wartars against the Rebels. Great
as well, who has been entrenched in this from the beginning.
Phil War obviously wants the success of rugby and he
was speaking on sen and he was very candid about
the fact that they were still going to be growing
(18:31):
rugby and Victoria. We're not forgetting about Victoria. It's just
that we need to be responsible and here was the summary.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Of his argument.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
We'll still be putting a lot of rugby content into Melbourne.
So we had eighty four thousand people at the Birthslay
Cup at the MCG last year. We got the two
of two lines games in Melbourne in twenty twenty five,
and then we've got a Rugby World Cup, so we'll
still be seeing world class rugby in Melbourne. I think,
as I said since taking on the CEO role, we
(19:02):
need to be fiscally responsible as the governing body. My
role in leading Ruggy Australia to ensure that we're making
sensible commercial decisions and the cost for us to run
the Rebels from as Rugby Australia in twenty twenty five
was too high and the financial risks with the assumptions
(19:24):
in the Consortium's proposal were too high, which left us
with no other choice but to remove that risk and
ensure that the game is well set up for the
future across the country, which will include Victoria.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Do you know what it makes sense? It makes sense right?
What are you saying there? I think completely makes sense.
But what it makes me think about is when you
bring the British and Irish Lions to Australia next year
and you're going to have them play a game in Victoria.
When we are hosting the Rugby World Cup in twenty
twenty seven and twenty twenty nine our women, and you're
(20:01):
going to be having games and maybe finals being hosted
by Victoria. If I mean, we can only hope. Let's
manifest if Australian teams did well and the Wallaby somehow
won those ventures right, and you engaged a Victorian audience
and they thought great, how can I support rugby in
(20:22):
this country? You've taken away the team, You've taken away
their access to that there's not going to be a
pathway for them to readily jump aboard and beyond that bandwagon.
There's no bandwagon now.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean it's such a run and jump to think
that Australia is going to be a success at a
World Cup given what we've witnessed.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I mean I called, I said they're going to win
the Bledislo this year, which they still could.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I mean, you do make some outrageous calls. And the
fact you just repeated that I wouldn't be if I
was you.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
But that's fine.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But okay, So we've heard from Rugby Australia essentially saying
what the consortium put forward had too many risk factors.
We just aren't in a position we need to be responsible.
What are the rebels saying, Because if you listen to
executives and all the whispers that we're hearing out of
the rebels, this is far from over in their minds,
and that they had a very fair and they thought
valid proposal to be able to save the club. So
(21:11):
this is the rebels Director of Rugby, Nick styles on
Sen discussing, and this was something that I found interesting.
Why is there a different setup for rugby Union or
Super Rugby then there is for NRL and AFL And
what does that actually look like?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
So let's have a listen.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
Rugby Australia looked at the sort of consortium and felt
they weren't weren't financially back to the extent that they
probably needed to be. And and they've said there was
a few things there and governance that they didn't know.
But for me, we need to look at different models
at the moment. As I've said before, you know, every
team in Australia is struggling financially. The model in Australian
(21:51):
rugby is that, you know, Rugby Australia sits over the
top of everyone and then each state effectively owns it team.
And we're in a confederated governance model in Australian rugby.
And I think that the sporting codes that have really
progressed forward in AFL and NRL have changed that federated
(22:15):
model into more of a system where there's a commission
that drives the game forward. And the model is I
believe broken, and this is probably disappointing that we had
a different, different setup that was being proposed that could
really change.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
The game, a confederation model where the states don't agree. George,
you remember that episode we did on swimming Australia.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh, it is given a swim in Australia, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And the fact that nothing could really be done or
they were just in stalemates because they had their own
vested interests rather than overall overarching commercial viability. And we
just compared, perhaps unfairly Rugby Australia to AFL. But as
of twenty twenty two, Rugby Australia's revenue was one hundred
and twenty nine million, and I think that would be
enerous compared to twenty twenty four it was just fourteen
(23:03):
percent that of the AFLs that year, my god, which
is nine hundred and forty four million.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Nearly a billion dollars. I feel that for Nick Styles there,
director of rugby at the Melbourne Rebels what I of
course he has to fight for this team, right because
it's his livelihood, it's his staff's livelihood, it's a player's livelihood.
So of course I expect that of him. What I
wanted to see there or hear there was some kind
of responsibility being taken as well too, right because the
(23:31):
club itself, he can be talking about all the plans
that they have in place for them to build and
eventually that's the key word, eventually obtain financial sustainability. But
this has been a lemon, a financial lemon for the
last fourteen years. It has had hand out to this team.
So where has that money gone? There has to be
some level of mismanagement which I don't actually think has
(23:54):
been truly acknowledged by the Rebels Cohort themselves when we
go to thinking about a a federation now and what
needs to be a complete overhaul essentially of how rugby
union is run in this country and if you are
looking for a more centralized model. Again, I don't see
any evidence that the teams themselves, so those major stakeholders
(24:16):
are on board. Maybe in New South Wales with the
New South Wales Warritors we're seeing that, But I mean
in WA so they've also been taken over by Ray,
that's the thing. Yeah, but you talk about WA right,
the Force like that was another team that was axed
in twenty seventeen. They're now back after COVID. They were
able to get their way back into the competition when
(24:36):
it changed.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
To COVID after tweety Forrest was like, no, you don't,
here is my wallet's everything?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Take them back. But they are right in some extent. Well,
their argument is it's like, well we have very different
factors right in Wa. As you would know Jelby, Wa
likes to see itself as a different state. I can
say that because I'm Queensland and Queenslanders think the same
thing as a different country rather not at a different state.
But there's still so much miscommunication. I'm not seeing anyone
that's truly willing to help themselves and help each other out.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
The one thing they universally agree on, and that Nick
Styles did stay at the start of that interview was
rugby Australia and rugby in Australia is struggling and they
have a lot of issues and rugby Australia is in
a really difficult position.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
And I think that that is universally accepted.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
And what else is universally accepted and we're yet to
find out, is no one can.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Afford for this to go to court. Oh yeah, because
court means money.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
There's a rumor that it might actually happen, right, that
they'll contest this.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Phil War's gone. Well, let's ideally not.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
When the premise of this is that we want we
want the money that we were going to put forward
for the Rebels if we were to bolster this team
to actually go into grassroots rugby where it's desperately needed.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And any money.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Towards this process that takes away from grassroots is detrimental
to growing our game, which we have decided after a
long period, and these were his words of trying to
be everything to everyone, we've failed and we now need
to turn around and go how can we best invest
what we do have in making success for rugby going forward?
(26:20):
And my goodness, do they have to have one eye
on a World Cup in twenty twenty seven And the
fact that finally, finally, we need to start having good
news stories about rugby in Australia because you know, for
a podcast that's been running for a couple of seasons,
we sound like rugby bashes absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Just actually, do you know who does? Do you know
who gives us something happy to talk about the women's
teams and rugby women's teams because the Olympics, Yes.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So good from you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Because it is really important to note that the Rebels
women's team is separate to.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
This, yes, and there's a chance that is going to survive.
They will keep propping that up and I hope that
they do, but also pulls into focus about how once
again women have to save the day. They got to
save the day. So when it comes to the Paris Olympics,
our rugby seven's team, bloody hell, if they win gold,
that is the best pr that they could possibly do
(27:17):
to help their male counterparts, I'll tell you what. And
also the rugby in terms of the women's fifteens team,
they are the perfect example of building a love for
the game because you talk about good news stories that
comes when you love the game. And right now with
the state of rugby union in Australia that has got lost,
there are no pathways because it is really really hard
(27:38):
right There's no dreams that administrators have, the officials, the
people at the helm have been able to build for
all the juniors coming through that they want to chase
because the product itself. We saw that at the World
Cup last year. The Wallabies looked dead in the eyes
when they got thumped by Whales, and so.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
You're dead in the We all did.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
We all did, But that's just showing that everyone. It
doesn't look like a fun game to play, so why
would it be a fun game to watch?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think the thing that's most harrowing for me is
that they had us and they've lost us in one generation.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Australians are disengaged in the game.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And the good thing is it's happened in such a
short period of time that hopefully the snapback can be
just a swift yeah, because hopefully you've still got the
guernsey somewhere.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It might not fit anymore.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
But Draff, you can dig it out because they were really,
really wonderful times and it is a great game.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
But if you do somehow, if you're one of the
few people that have the Melbourne Rebels jersey, unfortunately, this
is not your time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It's a collector's item.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
It's a collector's item. Hey, you might come back. The
fourth came back. There could be there could be a challenge.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And our thoughts are with the Rebels players because can
you imagine they're in Fiji at the moment. They played
the final round and they got belt. They've now lost
five games in a row as well, so it's just
not been a happy time. But they have qualified for
the finals, so they have made the Final eight. They're
going to be making their first appearance. But it's just
such an unnerving time and again. It's not a great
(29:15):
advertisement to get into rugby in Australia.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
No, no, it's not, and that's why they need things
that they need to turn things around quickly and hopefully, hopefully,
if we'll take a realistic lens of this, maybe cutting
off such a financial suck could help.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Short of Rugby Australia burning down.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I promise you, our dear two good sports listeners, our
next rugby story is going to be upbeat.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's gonna be upbeat or nothing. I'm bringing bringing positivity.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
We will do some sort of Olympic special on how
amazing our rugby sevens are and if the Fijians win,
we're going to tell you how great the Fijians are
because we, despite what you may believe from all evidence
suggesting the country, we don't want to be rugby bashes.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
It's just that these are.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The headlines that we've had to explain to you over
the last two years.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And we are hopeful. Damn.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I'm going to go so far as say we are
optimistic that the Wallabies and Rugby Australia can turn this around.
With the calendar that we have on the horizon, continue
bringing rugby to Melbourne. Maybe not at a super rugby level,
but I just think, you know what, I'm going to
vote with my feet next time the Wallabies are here,
I'm going to go to all game Georgia.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You're welcome to come produce it. I will bring your hat.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
And I think that we need to start going and
engaging and be the difference that you want to see.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Tell me my gift to you on your return. It's
your favorite time.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
A love a fun fact?
Speaker 6 (30:53):
You know this?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
How did you know she loves a fun fact?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Well, jellmy, this is a special one because it is
on brand, on theme, because that's what we do here.
In June two thousand and nine, Wallabies flanker Phil Wore,
who if you've been listening, dear listener, is now the
Rugby Australia CEO was named in the Australian team. So
the Wallabies that was set to face the Barbarians. Isn't
(31:19):
that a great name? It's a stunning name, the Barbarians
in Sydney. It makes me hand them.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
The Rebels and the Crusaders at a pub. You feel
like you need to go hear ye, hear ye?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
How good? How good? I was thinking of Gladiator. It
was like, please welcome the Barbarian hold and you're like, no,
Russell Crowe, please survive.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Anyway, Russell Crowe would have been great at rugby side
note Oh yes, I mean I know that he's mister League.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
He could have Seister League.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, I know, I could sid sidebar Now you've got
me thinking, I'm like, oh yeah, maybe he could be
a flanker. So the Barbarians, yes, great name, but they're
essentially an All Stars team right Like in my mind
it's kind of like if the All Australian team actually
played a game.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Still point, still point that we don't have Stadia and
All Stars, but sure.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
They have the world right to choose their players from.
And this is how elite this team is. So the
Wallabies we're going to be taking on the Barbarians. In
two thousand and nine, Phil war was going to play
for the Wallabies, but such was his form that Phil
was also named in the Barbarian side, so he had
a choice to make.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
He's been invited to two weddings, which one is the
rsvping too his.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Own or his best mates?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Which one which I mean obviously because he ends up
CEO of Rugby Australia.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Australia took preference right.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Ahaha, No, no, Phil took the once in a lifetime
opportunity to play for the Barbarians against the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Ah So the issues with rugby Australia can date back
to June two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Oh I should you and I have had.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
A bit to do with Phil wore back in our
foss school stage and he is a delightful human being
and we only wish him more upbeat press conferences in
the future.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Will I now call him Barbarian? Sure?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Sure, sure, because fun fact he decided to play against
the Wallabies and be in the Barbarians. I love that
it was a one off match, but I love it.
I love it so much.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I Phil, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Hi Phil, give us a call if he need some help.
Jell me. Welcome back, Welcome back. It's been so nice
having you back.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
And also sure it was more orderly without me.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I'm sure the edit was easier without us just absolutely
losing it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
But this is I've missed it terribly. It's so nice
to be back.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Thank you for listening to two Good Sports. As always,
please follow us on Instagram if you haven't already. What
are you doing at two Good sports podcasts and make
sure you do. Subscribe to the show, follow the show,
and leave us reviews. We'd love to know what you think,
but please let them be positive. Reviews positive. Thank you
so much. We'll catch you next week, but until then,
be a good sport.
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