March 19, 2025 • 34 mins
In the first hour, Dick Fain hangs out with Hugh Millen for the hour as the guys discuss Sam Darnold’s contract with the Seahawks, including a visit from Mike Florio from PFT, measuring his deal against other QBs, plus Cooper Kupp signing and how he fits here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quickness here with Hugh, we got to rebrief. How are you, man,
what's happening? I'm well, thank you, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Doing good man.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I've been thinking about this Sam Donald contract and I
want to run some things by you here because I'm
a frugal guy by nature. Anytime I look at something
at a department store and it's got full price, my
palms begin to sweat, I begin to shake a little bit,
and I usually leave it on the rack until I
can find it for a sale. And I feel kind
(00:29):
of the same way when it comes to signing players
in the NFL, because I think rule number one to
wreck your team is to pay a good quarterback great money,
and rule number one to help fix your team is
to pay a good quarterback below average money. And I
think the Seahawks have done exactly that in Sam Donald.
And I'm not to get the bag guy like some
(00:52):
fans are, but honestly, Hugh, I kind of feel bad
for Sam Donald basically getting a one year contract going
into the next season. Almost feel like he deserved more
than that. Were you surprised to see how team friendly
that Darnald contract was for.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
C Well, I think I always look at you know
how the market is speaking. I mean, uh, you know,
uh Scanling Valdez, right, Uh Valdez Scandling. Rather, you know,
we can talk about that. You know, every time there's
a signing, I look at what they make. Not necessarily, yes,
it's got to fit with what the salary cap structure structure.
(01:28):
But I think as a general rule, you can start there, right. Uh,
the market's gonna speak. He he was not franchised, he
was on the street. Anybody could have signed him. There's
a half a dozen teams, you know, Cleveland could have
signed him. You got obviously, well the Raiders, Pittsburgh Giants, Yeah, Giants, Jets.
(01:52):
So so I think there were enough teams, And I'm
inclined to put it this way. I'm inclined. My default
position would be the market probably did a pretty good
job of establishing his value, not to so I start
from there, and then I've got to see some reasonably
(02:13):
persuasive evidence to see why the market was wrong. But
I generally will default too. I think the market was right.
So if that's if that's a fair starting point, then
Sam Donald at thirty three and a half and fifty
five guaranteed, I think the market probably spoke, and so
(02:33):
it's a reflection of the fact that you know, it's
a one year success story for him for the most part.
I mean, you can you can peek at that last
little bit with Carolina where he went four and two
in a year that Baker Mayfield went one in five.
If you want to be charitable and kind of till
your head and say, hey, we've got something here. Sam
(02:56):
Donald's eighteen and six over his last twenty four games.
And I know this sounds absurd. For the most part,
it is absurd, but there's a little bit of hm
at the fact there's only three quarterbacks in the history
of the NFL that have ever been over seventy five
percent win win that's autogram Darryl Lamonica and Pat Mahomes.
Tom Brady's seven forty nine they point one away from
(03:19):
and so Donald, now that that that what I just
described as sixty starts or more. Okay, Donald has twenty four.
That's not even halfway to sixty obviously, But at some point,
if you want to if you want to say, hey,
here's a guy that was drafted when he was twenty
and if you look at the mess, the mess that
was the new York Jets. When he got there, their
(03:41):
offensive coordinator. He got there and uh, it was, oh god,
who is the guy with the Seahawks? Not Bevil, but
but who's the when Pete Carroll first got here, Dog Gonet,
Jeremy Bates. Jeremy Bates was Jeremy Bates in twenty eighteen,
and then he got fired. So now Sam Darnald, he's
on second coordinator. He's only twenty fresh freshly twenty two
(04:04):
years old. And this guy named Dowell Loggins is the
offense coordinator. And I and I watched, I watched their stuff.
It was a disaster. They couldn't they didn't know, they
didn't have a plan for how to protect for him.
I mean, they were just it was brutal around him.
So this Dal Luggins, he said, well, he's the offensive
coordinator for Donald's second and third year at the Jets.
(04:25):
He was on his fourth job. He had never had
a job for more than two years. It was either
one or two, aged thirty nine, and then then he
washes out with the Jets, never back in pro football again.
This is not some This is not like Sean McVay,
some wonder kind some mozart. You know, some some savant. No,
this is a guy that that that got his ass
(04:47):
tossed out of the league, and now he's where Appalachian
State hasn't been in the NFL since then, and so
you start to just kind of say, let me dive
into the history of a guy, and like I did,
start to watch the tape of his Jetsiers. Yes, I
went back to his Jetsiers, and you just go, hey,
there are some circumstances where I don't care who you are.
(05:09):
And that ought to be freshened in our mind because
the last game that we saw was Pat Mahomes looking
like a JV dude, right because of what he had
around him, and that was still with Andy Reid and all,
you know everything else. So I just think there are
times where guys have a really bad situation. I don't
(05:30):
have the courage to say that Sam Darnold's gonna be
great for the Seahawks because there's a lot of unanswered questions.
But I can look and see how he got screwed
in a lot of ways early in his career.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, let's see what Mike Florio, thanks, we got him
on right now, it's time.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
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Speaker 2 (06:04):
That was Mike Florio. Here's Softie and Dick.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Mike Florio joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Mike, you and I taking you know, talking about the
Sam Darnold and not only what the production could be
here in Seattle, but just that that incredibly team friendly
contract that you know reportedly was three years, one hundred
point five million dollars. We find out later that heck,
if the Seahawks want to get out of it in
January of twenty twenty six, they can get out of it.
(06:32):
In January of twenty twenty six. What jumped out at
you about that contract when you saw the specific Wait?
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Wait who found it out? Who found it out?
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Sorry you found it out?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Just want to be cool? Doom a little badge press
on it every once in a while.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
That good, it's good for you.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
Is exactly what we suspect and I think it's one
of the reasons why the numbers weren't out there for
so long, and it's felt like somebody was trying to
hide them, and eventually I posted it, Hey, it's been
a week and we don't have the numbers and something's
weird here, and that operated it's sort of a bad signal.
Somebody reached out to me with the numbers and that's
(07:18):
how we finally got them. It's been kind of a
secretive deal, and I understand why. It's no different than
the deal they did in twenty twenty three with Gino Smith,
where you know it was a year to year deal.
Remember it first came out of three years one hundred million,
and it's like, oh wait a minute, it's three years
seventy five million. And then it's like, oh wait a minute,
(07:39):
it's one year at a time. That's exactly what they
did with Darnold. And here's my concern. He is going
to potentially be this year's guy who gets benched, so
he's injury guarantee, doesn't become fully vested. We talked with
their A car in twenty three, Russell Wilson, no car
in twenty two. Wilson in twenty three and Daniel Jones
last year. That's a problem for the Seahawks, man for
(08:01):
Sam Donald, and it puts more pressure on him, pressure
on like any that he had last year until week eight.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Ten, If you were a Seahawks fan, or let's say
you had a sum of money that made you nervous
about the record for the Seahawks this year and maybe
a couple of years beyond. I'm gonna give you a scale,
you and your law degree. You're gonna you're gonna like
this one, okay, from negative ten to ten where zero's neutral.
(08:27):
Ten as you love it, negative ten you despise it.
Just the direction the Seahawks have taken in the last
week or two only talking about the quarterbacks, Geno out,
Sam Darnold in where are you on that scale?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
How many years?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Just whatever's transpire, everything that's transpired. Okay, we'll say to
you over the next two to three years, where where
you are the quarterback?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Here's the thing about this year. The schedule rotation works
out very favorably for the teams of the NFC West.
Eight of their games will be against teams of the
NFC South and the AFC South, which is critical to
wildcard positioning. I mean, obviously one of the four teams
is going to win the division, but there's going to
be wildcard births available, and it's an easier draw, and
it's half of your games almost. It's eight out of
(09:16):
seventeen games against the two week at divisions right now
in the NFL. So that helps the Seahawks. So that
makes me feel a little bit better than zero. I
just think that this was a situation where they did
not want to give Gino Smith the money he was
looking for. It was north of forty maybe forty five,
so they pivoted to Plan B. And Plan B is
basically one year thirty seven and a half million, with
(09:38):
an option on two years sixty five million, with an
option on three years one hundred point five million. And
so they can see whether or not last year was
an aberration or the unlocking of some new level of
performance like we saw from Geno Smith. The difference between
Smith and Darnald is Smith had his resurgence with the
Seahawks as the starter. They're relying upon what Darnold did
(10:00):
in Minnesota, and assuming it can be duplicated in Seattle,
I'm not sure it can't. Now Quint Kubiak was with
him in San Francisco and they really liked him there,
but they were committed to Brock Party. So I feel
like it's going to be somewhere between zero and ten.
And the flexibility that they'll have in the event that
the wheels come off next year, it lets them go
in a different direction for twenty six. Were to have
(10:21):
a clean slate and any of the guys out there,
whether they draft a guy, sign a guy, trade for
a guy, they've got all options available for twenty twenty six.
So I like the flexibility and I like that they
they found a path out of a tough situation where
Gino Smith wanted more, a lot more than they were
willing to pay. So they came up with another strategy.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Well, give us your answer. There's no there's no wrong answer.
What do you say? What's your number?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Over zero?
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Number zero?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Like like two, like two and a half.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Okay, all right, Well you know the Cooper Cup signed.
We haven't talked to you since Cooper Cup signed with Seattle.
And my take was, I think I like it. What
Cooper Cup am I getting? So, Mike, what Cooper Cup
do you think I'm getting?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
I'd really want to know exactly why the Rams fell
out of love with this guy as decisively as they did.
I found a comments from yesterday remarkable regarding the fact
that they never gave him much of an explanation as
to why they were moving on. I mean, the bottom
line is they no longer saw him as a number
two receiver and they weren't going to pay him accordingly. Now,
usually when a team does that, what do they do?
(11:26):
They go younger and cheaper. What did the Seahawks or
the Rams? Excuse me, Doe and DeVante Adams.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
So it was all just.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Very weird, and I think it's a reminder to all
the fans out there who line up behind the laundry.
These players do not get treated well. When it's over.
It's over. When they're done, they're done. This guy was
a Super Bowl MVP, and when the Rams were done,
it would see you later without a word, without an explanation,
You're just gone. And the question becomes, at the price
(11:55):
that the Seahawks got him for, and given that he's
going to be the number two to Jackson Smith and Jigbak,
what are they going to get out of him? And
the key is his health. You know, the argument is, hey,
if Cooper Cup had played every game the last three years,
he would have had over one thousand receiving yards based
upon what he did when he played. Okay, the counter
to that is, but he didn't and being available is critical.
(12:16):
And so he's made eighteen games in three years. That's
more than a full season out of the last three.
So that's the concern. And you know, there may be
other stuff that happened that the Rams didn't like, and
maybe they're just being charitable and not airing it all
out there. I don't know, but the Rams decided they
were done with this guy. And to me, whenever one
team decides it's done with a guy, that's always a
(12:36):
bit of a red flag. And you want to understand
exactly why the team decided that someone who was so
central to their recent Super Bowl win, why they would
fall out of love with him so quickly and so decisively.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, in my all time years of studying, the best
example I can ever give is, you remember the Super
Bowl after twenty twelve. I remember watching Randy Moss on
the forty nine ers against the Ravens and watching that
coaches tape, and I just my mouth was a gape, like, whoa,
(13:10):
I mean, it says Moss. It's the same number. But
he looked like a geriatric now he was thirty five,
but that like, never have I seen a guy just
look so slow? Would you be more concerned from a
Cup standpoint about hey, he just lost a step because
of the age, or how the injuries are impacting his
(13:34):
ability to separate? What's more of a concern The injuries
are the age.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
I think it's a multidirectional chicken in the egg that
goes into age injuries and the Rams making the conscious
decision that the offense is going to be center around
pokin Akua and Cooper Kupp doesn't work as our number two.
And I think that all those things came together and
that's what prompted the Rams first to try to trade him.
(14:01):
And it was obvious from the moment they were trying
to trade. Nobody's taken on a twenty million dollars compensation
package for twenty twenty five, and the Rams would have
had to pay some of the money to make a
trade happen, and that was just never in the cards.
Cup was never going to take less. It's always better
to get cut than get trade because then you can
go to the open market, you can do your best
possible deal. So I think age is an issue. Injury
(14:21):
is an issue. But look, the Seahawks apparently have a
plan here. They're not just playing fantasy football. It's not
just hey, we've heard of Cooper Cup. He was the
Super Bowl MVP, he won the Triple Crown in twenty
and twenty one. He had one of the great single
receiver seasons of all time. Let's go get him. They
surely know what they've seen when they've played them, when
they've gotten ready to play them, and they have a
(14:41):
belief that they can make it work. And now we'll see.
And if he misses seven games because of an ankle injury,
it will have been a mistake. But they've made a
hell of a risk here. They've taken a calculated risk.
And part of it is, look, they've got two guys
who were playing B. So the guys we thought were
going to be there Ginomi Smith gone Plan B. Is
Sam Donald, dk Metcaalk gone Plan B as Cooper Cups.
(15:04):
They're paying less money and they're they're they picked up
draft picks in the transactions, and now well they picked
up one, they picked up a second rounder, and they
picked up a third rounder. So you know they've picked
up some draft picks and they've gone cheaper, and now
we just see what happens.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Hey, Mike, before I let you go, I mean, the
floor for the Bengals when you have Joe Burrow and
Chase and Higgins is going to be fairly high. But
did they think their future by paying two wide receivers
seventy million dollars a year as far as their high
end ceiling.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
I don't think so, because Number one, the Baalery cap
is going to keep going up, so the relative impact
of those deals is going to go down year after year.
The Eagles are paying two receivers at a significant rate,
both DeVonta Smith and aj Brown. I think that they're
recognizing you have to keep the key players on a
competitive team together, and with T Higgins and Jamar Chase,
(15:59):
that offense is more likely to reach its higher level.
There might be a lot of shootouts for the Cincinnati Bengals.
They got a lot of work to do defensively. They
made mistakes in the past, and I think this is
why Joe Burrow took a stand. He took a public
stand he sent messages to the team. I believe privately
he was making it clear that if they didn't get
these guys back, they were going to have a Carson
Palmer type of a problem. And Palmer, back in twenty eleven,
(16:22):
decided the Bengals are prioritized making money over winning and
I want out. And I think Joe Burrow was getting
closer to that conclusion than anyone would admit Burrow himself.
Because it worked, they changed. This is a team that
is notoriously cheap, and I think they had every intent
last year when they tagged the Higgins and drafted Jermaine Burton.
(16:45):
That's how they usually do it. Will tag the guy
that is eligible for a new contract, will draft his replacements,
and then we'll let him go the next year. And
he didn't work out because Burton didn't answer the bell,
and Burrow wanted Higgins there. So now they've got a
lot of money invested in those guys and need to
keep them healthy. They need to keep them effective. But
this is a team that with Burrow they get to
(17:06):
the playoffs. In any given year. They can get hot
because Burrow is one of those rare cats in the NFL.
Who reaches a higher level of performance when you get
the single eliminations football. That's what makes him one of
the most dangerous guys in the NFL right now, and
that's why there's plenty of teams, especially the two that
got to the Super Bowl and the one who win
it should be very happy that the Bengals did not
sneak into the playoffs last year.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Mike, always a pleasure. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Thank guy.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You bas Mike Florio join us when we come back.
We're going to find out what do we think the
Seahawks are as far as value for their money at
the quarterback position and compared to the rest of the NFL.
We'll get huge take on how does Cooper cup fit
in this offense? With JSN coming up next on ninety
three point three KJRFM, we're.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Listening to the exclusive home of the Huskies, the Cracking
and March Madness. Now back to Softie and Dick, proudly
brought to you by Emerald guin Casino on Sports Radio
ninety three point three KJRM.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So, Hugh, I made a little list here.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I found twenty teams right now in the NFL that
have quarterbacks signed to veteran contracts. So we're not talking
about teams wandering aimlessly in the woods like the Steelers,
the Jets, the Giants. We're not talking about those teams
because they really don't have quarterbacks. We're not talking about
teams like the Texans and the Commanders that have guys
(18:35):
on rookie contracts. I'm just looking at the twenty veteran
contract quarterback situations in the NFL, and I want to say, Okay,
where do I think the Seahawks fit on that list?
If you put into play how good your quarterback is
and the bang for the buck that you're getting, so
you just put them all in that one ranking, and
really there's very few quarterback situations that I would trade
(19:01):
Sam Donald for. Now, you've got your no brainers, right,
you got your I think can we all agree that
we would trade Donald and his contract for the contract
situation of Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson,
and Justin Herbert. Sure, Yeah, yeah, sorry, I mean those
are yeah, those are the elite of the elite.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You're gonna pay elite money for those.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
These are the ones that I probably would trade Donald for.
These situations, but I'm not totally positive. Jalen Hurts, Matt Stafford,
Baker Mayfield those three are I mean, would you rather
have Jalen Hurts his dealer, Would you rather have Sam
donald is his deal I think those are debatable, but
(19:45):
I'd probably rather have Hurt, Stafford and Baker than what
Donald is doing.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Well.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
We talked before the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Jalen Hurts had arguably one of the best teams around
him that we've seen in the Super Bowl ERAa. When
you consider, you know, PFF number one offensive line, PFF
number one tandem. When you consider AJ Brown was number three,
they're third ranked and Devonte Smith is thirteen at three
and thirteen, that's sixteen. The next closest was the Bengals nineteen,
(20:16):
which lowest means best. Obviously the number one defense in
the NFL. I mean, he had everything. So I think
you put Jalen Hurts on the Giants and it's a
nothing burger and they're right back looking for somebody to
replace him.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So you might not even have Hurts on that list then, But.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think that Hurts I probably undervalue. I don't believe
in him. I believe in Jared Goff more than you do.
And I know from our conversations through the years. Now
I think Jared Goff is a great blend. They have
built the team around his strengths. Let me tell you,
let me say this very firmly. There is nobody and
(20:57):
I mean nobody that operates under center play action like
Jared Goff. He he is in a class and nobody
everybody else's. He's secretary at in the Belmont thirty one
links ahead of the next guy. And you know what
the next guy is, Sam Donald.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So I've been doing a lot of studying on this.
I just did a presentation today to the thirty third
team on Sam Donald and Gino Smith. So I have
been you know, I would ordinarily be doing my racking.
It's been accelerated focus for me. And that whole concept.
You say, why does that matter? You got Clint Kubiak
trying to come in and play under center wide zone
(21:37):
and the play action that comes off of that when
you have to turn your back to the defense and
then put your foot in the ground and then and
having processed in a very short amount of time and
not be late, don't take an extra hitch, and you
got to throw that ball, and then when you fi
further filter Jared Goff over the middle between the numbers,
he like blows.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
It's like a knockout. He blows every buddy away.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
There is a style that Jared Goff plays that I
think that, in my opinion, football fans don't appreciate how
good that guy is.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
I think that's fair. He is.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
He at the very highest levels. No, but I'm telling
you if he's not, maybe he's not in League one A.
By the way, on that subject, you know, there's been
eight quarterbacks in history that have had four thousand yards
and fourteen wins, eight total. Jared Goff's won and Sam
Donald is another.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, well, Donald GoF I had in the next category,
which it was close, But I probably wouldn't trade Donald
for him, not because I don't think he's a better
quarterback than Donald. Goff has grown on me. You're right,
I've been negative nelly on GoF for a long long time.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
He has grown on me.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
But would I.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Trade Sam Donald at thirty three point five million for
Jared Goff at fifty three million? I don't think I would.
I don't think there's a there. I think the what
I could use with that other twenty million dollars I
think makes up for them the Lions.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Do you think they'll No, that's a different Let's just
say for the sake of discussion that I stipulate what
you just said. Yeah, that's sound. That's a different question
than whether the Lions would jettison golf.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And I don't think that Donald, and I don't think and.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Gain the twenty Like if you if you go as
you went to the Lions right now and said you
can have Donald for twenty two million less than golf,
they would say, no, we need golf, and we're willing
to pay the extra ten two million because we built
our team around his skill set.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And not only that, they're also in a different situation
that the Seahawks are. They're in a championship win it
in twenty twenty five mode, where I still think the
Seahawks are, you know, hopefully going to compete for a
championship a little bit more down the road. So I
don't think they would mess up anything that that they've
got going for you. And then you know, the last
(24:02):
category are just these awful contracts. I mean, dak Kyler,
Deshaun Watson's the worst of the worst. Tua, Cousins, car whatever,
Aaron Rodgers signs for whatever, Russell Wilson signs for hell
Gino Smith.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I like Gino, but Gino's.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Gonna sign for what I think is going to be
too much money. So, I mean, you rank it all
out there. If we throw Jalen Hurts into the we
wouldn't trade Sam Darnold for the Jalen Hurts contract situation,
then he's fifth overall, maybe sixth if you traded golf
with Hurt. So we're talking about about the fifth or
(24:42):
sixth the best veteran contract situation in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That is a Seahawk fan. Yeah makes me happy. Yeah, yeah, No,
I get it. I mean I think that Are you
a high five guy? This analogy just came to my mind.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Five.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I'm gonna just I'm gonna wing this thing in a
well no, no, no, high five five stereo equipment for
people like who you know who get like Macintosh and
these just these these high end uh uh amplifiers and
and uh you know, digital analog converters, and that there's
(25:18):
what's called an audio file. The term is called audio
file and and so it's like exponents, you have diminishing returns.
So that if you go out and you get a
stereo system for your home theater and you want to
spend five grand, and then you say, well, obviously there's
one that you could spend ten grand on. You're not
getting double the sound. Your ten ground is going to
(25:38):
sound better than your five, but it's not going to
be double, and and and so on and so and forth.
And I mean there's literally there's two million dollars uh
uh uh stereo systems just left right speaker and an amp,
and so you got diminishing returns. But I think that
and quarterbacks can be that way. You pay you just
(26:00):
to get that extra five or ten percent, You gotta
pay double to get that. But guess what that extra
five or ten percent is. Oftentimes the difference in a
league where you're so many games are balancing on the
blade of a knife. You're paying double for that five
(26:21):
percent better quarterback. And I'm just you can change my
numbers around, but if you can, if you can grasp
onto that general philosophy, that that's what you're gonna always
be dealing with. I think with quarterbacks thirty.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Forty one back with more humillin next on ninety three
point three KJRFM.
Speaker 7 (26:37):
You're listening to the exclusive home of the Huskies, the
Kraken and March Madness. Now back to SOFTI and Dick,
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Radio ninety three point three KJRM.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
Eight years with the Rams. I think it's tagged with
the slot like, No, I don't know how you determined that.
When we're in condensed formations, I'm outside, but I'm running
a slot route.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
You know, I'm you know, I'm out.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
A lot of times I was outside, and I'm not
sure if it was being tagged as slot routes or not.
But you can't think of yourself as just a slot
you got you got to see yourself as paying any
one of these positions at anytime, because you could be
asked run any one of these routes.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That's the new scatle Seahawk Wide receiver Cooper Cup yesterday
in his press conference, you'll hear his conversation that he
had with Softy and myself.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
That'll come up at four thirty today, But let's talk
about that. Hugh.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Nobody better to talk about condensed sets with than Hugh
Breed love Mill And it's gonna be a it's gonna
be a little bit of a change. You know, we're
into the the Shanahan tree, which McVay McVay comes from,
Kubiak comes from. So it should be a comfortable transition
from La to Seattle for him, shouldn't it.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I mean I think that you're Let's see how
they run the offense. Let me try and see if
I can explain what he said. If you have let's
say you get into two by two formation and everybody's
spread out really wide, okay, so that the widest receivers
they are very close to the sideline, So this is
not condensed formations, all right, And then you've got a
(28:10):
slot and then further in closer to the ball. Then
you've got your offensive lineman. And where the ball is,
let's say, balls right's dead in the middle of the field.
If I'm the diamidor Leonore, the best corner for the
forty nine ers, If Cooper Cup comes out and he
lines up at you know, four or five yards from
(28:31):
the sideline, that's a wide split. And now what am
I thinking. I'm saying, Okay, you don't have enough space
to run any type of speed out route. The only
way you can go outside of me is to is
to run and then come to a stop and run
a comeback. Okay, so that's a key. You can't run
(28:51):
a corner route, you can't run a sale route. You
can't what Mike will run, what Mike Holp McGan calls
an OKI route, the six step out route. Your split
is too wide, and you are outside of my divider.
My divider tells me that I want to be on
the inside of you. Now, go ahead, Cooper, you go
up the sideline. I know you can't speed cut to
(29:11):
the outside.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
I have to.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I don't have any help over the top on a
go route, but you're not that fast, so I can
cruise at about ninety percent. And then if you start
to stop on a comeback, I'm on your inside, so
I'm in good leverage on a hook route and then
I can play your comeback. Okay, easy to cover. Now
in that case, Cooper Cup is number one. You count
from the outside ind one to two, and whoever was
(29:35):
in the slot the number two. Again, you count from
the sideline in that is clearly a slot. Now when
you say all right, now we're going to take Cooper
Cup We're going to bring him much closer to the ball,
all right, almost, you know, like four or five yards
outside the tackle, and we're gonna motion and we're gonna
get we're gonna snap the ball right when about a
yard away from somebody being you know, now, if you're
(29:58):
a sabernutrition, are you saying, well, is that guy the slot?
Was Puka Nakua the slot? Because he was technically a
yard inside, but he was. He was screaming like hell
and he was and he turned into the number one
within a split second after the ball. So do we
how do we even say it was he the number
one or the number two? Furthermore, now I'm Diamidor Lenore
(30:21):
and Cooper Cup has come inside. But now he's reduced
his split. He is closer to the ball. Now he
is inside of my divider, and I have to align
not to the inside of him. I have to line
to the outside of him because there's a lot of grass.
Now Cooper Cup can do a speed cut. He doesn't
have to come to a stop to do an outbreaking route.
He has all he has a corner route to at
(30:42):
his disposal. He has a speed out. He can do
the quick out the Omaha like, there's all kinds of
outbreaking routes.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
One quick question of clarification, where is where's Pooka right
now compared to where you were talking about because you
mentioned Pooka was the one.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We can put in in this In this case, we've
just reduced it. So Puka's close to the ball and
he's in the slot, and and you've got a Cup.
He's closer to the ball and he's outside. Technically he's
number one. He's not in the slot. Okay, he's still
the number one. What's number one? One is the first
guy from the sideline in Okay, So, but now Cup,
(31:19):
he's he's in an alignment even though he's aligned at
number one relative to the ball, it says if he's
in the slot, because he's much closer to the ball
and relative to the sideline, he's much it's like he's
in the slot. He can do speed cuts to the
out and it's his crossing routes to get over to
the other side of the field or or stop in
(31:40):
the middle of the hash marks. He's very close to
the the middle of the field like he's in the slot.
So you know, shallow cross, intermediate cross, the stop routes,
all of those things that now he's he's dwelling in
the domain of linebackers. Even though he lined up at
number one, he's got diamador lador leonor on his outside
(32:02):
leverage because of the divider rule. The divided rule is
what how close you are to the sideline versus how
close you are to the ball. You get too close
to the ball, you now you've intersected the divider rule,
the corner ass the state of the outside. So now
what what what Cup is trying to say is that
even though he is is uh technically the.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Widest guy, he's running slot routes or right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, and both on the same but both of them
on the same side. Does that Does that translate you
think into JSN and Cooper Cup lining up on the
same side of the field.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Often, Oh, that'll happen, absolutely because there's two man combinations
that that are a load on somebody say, you know,
two great players on one side.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
One goes in or meet at.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
JSN runs a corner route, and Cooper Cup runs an
outside out route, a shallow out route, or maybe he
Cooper Cup runs a little option route. And so now
Sam Darnold comes back and he's He's like, hey, I'm
gonna peek at JSN. If he wins, I'm gonna go
down the field and try and get me a you know,
twenty two yard game. If he doesn't, I'm gonna hit
(33:12):
Cooper underneath because I'm I'm satisfied that he's gonna win
over there. So they'll have times where jays N's on
the opposite side and and uh and on.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
The same side.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But but when Cooper Cupp talks about, hey, when I
reduce my splits now, the route tree is a lot
like being a slot receiver based on where he is
relative to the balls to the inside and the sideline
to the outside.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Great stuff. I wish we had more time.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
We got a lot going on, including Petros, Brian schmidtzer
Dan Bilesma coming up. So we're gonna we're gonna let
you go. We're gonna give you a couple hours off
and we'll talk to you on Monday. All right, hammer down,
all right, appreciate it. That's a great hour, a great
hour of football with Hugh Millen here. Petros Papadeka is
coming up next. Our conversation with Cooper Cup that we
had yesterday. We'll run that at four fourth thirty today,
(34:01):
Brian Schmetzer at five, Lancer Line talking draft at five
point thirty, and Dan bilsmant five forty five leading into
Kraken Hockey right here on ninety three point three k
JRFM
Quickness here with Hugh, we got to rebrief. How are you, man,
what's happening? I'm well, thank you, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Doing good man.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I've been thinking about this Sam Donald contract and I
want to run some things by you here because I'm
a frugal guy by nature. Anytime I look at something
at a department store and it's got full price, my
palms begin to sweat, I begin to shake a little bit,
and I usually leave it on the rack until I
can find it for a sale. And I feel kind
(00:29):
of the same way when it comes to signing players
in the NFL, because I think rule number one to
wreck your team is to pay a good quarterback great money,
and rule number one to help fix your team is
to pay a good quarterback below average money. And I
think the Seahawks have done exactly that in Sam Donald.
And I'm not to get the bag guy like some
(00:52):
fans are, but honestly, Hugh, I kind of feel bad
for Sam Donald basically getting a one year contract going
into the next season. Almost feel like he deserved more
than that. Were you surprised to see how team friendly
that Darnald contract was for.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
C Well, I think I always look at you know
how the market is speaking. I mean, uh, you know,
uh Scanling Valdez, right, Uh Valdez Scandling. Rather, you know,
we can talk about that. You know, every time there's
a signing, I look at what they make. Not necessarily, yes,
it's got to fit with what the salary cap structure structure.
(01:28):
But I think as a general rule, you can start there, right. Uh,
the market's gonna speak. He he was not franchised, he
was on the street. Anybody could have signed him. There's
a half a dozen teams, you know, Cleveland could have
signed him. You got obviously, well the Raiders, Pittsburgh Giants, Yeah, Giants, Jets.
(01:52):
So so I think there were enough teams, And I'm
inclined to put it this way. I'm inclined. My default
position would be the market probably did a pretty good
job of establishing his value, not to so I start
from there, and then I've got to see some reasonably
(02:13):
persuasive evidence to see why the market was wrong. But
I generally will default too. I think the market was right.
So if that's if that's a fair starting point, then
Sam Donald at thirty three and a half and fifty
five guaranteed, I think the market probably spoke, and so
(02:33):
it's a reflection of the fact that you know, it's
a one year success story for him for the most part.
I mean, you can you can peek at that last
little bit with Carolina where he went four and two
in a year that Baker Mayfield went one in five.
If you want to be charitable and kind of till
your head and say, hey, we've got something here. Sam
(02:56):
Donald's eighteen and six over his last twenty four games.
And I know this sounds absurd. For the most part,
it is absurd, but there's a little bit of hm
at the fact there's only three quarterbacks in the history
of the NFL that have ever been over seventy five
percent win win that's autogram Darryl Lamonica and Pat Mahomes.
Tom Brady's seven forty nine they point one away from
(03:19):
and so Donald, now that that that what I just
described as sixty starts or more. Okay, Donald has twenty four.
That's not even halfway to sixty obviously, But at some point,
if you want to if you want to say, hey,
here's a guy that was drafted when he was twenty
and if you look at the mess, the mess that
was the new York Jets. When he got there, their
(03:41):
offensive coordinator. He got there and uh, it was, oh god,
who is the guy with the Seahawks? Not Bevil, but
but who's the when Pete Carroll first got here, Dog Gonet,
Jeremy Bates. Jeremy Bates was Jeremy Bates in twenty eighteen,
and then he got fired. So now Sam Darnald, he's
on second coordinator. He's only twenty fresh freshly twenty two
(04:04):
years old. And this guy named Dowell Loggins is the
offense coordinator. And I and I watched, I watched their stuff.
It was a disaster. They couldn't they didn't know, they
didn't have a plan for how to protect for him.
I mean, they were just it was brutal around him.
So this Dal Luggins, he said, well, he's the offensive
coordinator for Donald's second and third year at the Jets.
(04:25):
He was on his fourth job. He had never had
a job for more than two years. It was either
one or two, aged thirty nine, and then then he
washes out with the Jets, never back in pro football again.
This is not some This is not like Sean McVay,
some wonder kind some mozart. You know, some some savant. No,
this is a guy that that that got his ass
(04:47):
tossed out of the league, and now he's where Appalachian
State hasn't been in the NFL since then, and so
you start to just kind of say, let me dive
into the history of a guy, and like I did,
start to watch the tape of his Jetsiers. Yes, I
went back to his Jetsiers, and you just go, hey,
there are some circumstances where I don't care who you are.
(05:09):
And that ought to be freshened in our mind because
the last game that we saw was Pat Mahomes looking
like a JV dude, right because of what he had
around him, and that was still with Andy Reid and all,
you know everything else. So I just think there are
times where guys have a really bad situation. I don't
(05:30):
have the courage to say that Sam Darnold's gonna be
great for the Seahawks because there's a lot of unanswered questions.
But I can look and see how he got screwed
in a lot of ways early in his career.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Well, let's see what Mike Florio, thanks, we got him
on right now, it's time.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
For a weekly conversation with Pro Football Talks Mike Florio
brought to you by simpla Seattle Tired of buying and
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Speaker 2 (06:04):
That was Mike Florio. Here's Softie and Dick.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Mike Florio joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Mike, you and I taking you know, talking about the
Sam Darnold and not only what the production could be
here in Seattle, but just that that incredibly team friendly
contract that you know reportedly was three years, one hundred
point five million dollars. We find out later that heck,
if the Seahawks want to get out of it in
January of twenty twenty six, they can get out of it.
(06:32):
In January of twenty twenty six. What jumped out at
you about that contract when you saw the specific Wait?
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Wait who found it out? Who found it out?
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Sorry you found it out?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Just want to be cool? Doom a little badge press
on it every once in a while.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
That good, it's good for you.
Speaker 5 (06:57):
Is exactly what we suspect and I think it's one
of the reasons why the numbers weren't out there for
so long, and it's felt like somebody was trying to
hide them, and eventually I posted it, Hey, it's been
a week and we don't have the numbers and something's
weird here, and that operated it's sort of a bad signal.
Somebody reached out to me with the numbers and that's
(07:18):
how we finally got them. It's been kind of a
secretive deal, and I understand why. It's no different than
the deal they did in twenty twenty three with Gino Smith,
where you know it was a year to year deal.
Remember it first came out of three years one hundred million,
and it's like, oh wait a minute, it's three years
seventy five million. And then it's like, oh wait a minute,
(07:39):
it's one year at a time. That's exactly what they
did with Darnold. And here's my concern. He is going
to potentially be this year's guy who gets benched, so
he's injury guarantee, doesn't become fully vested. We talked with
their A car in twenty three, Russell Wilson, no car
in twenty two. Wilson in twenty three and Daniel Jones
last year. That's a problem for the Seahawks, man for
(08:01):
Sam Donald, and it puts more pressure on him, pressure
on like any that he had last year until week eight.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Ten, If you were a Seahawks fan, or let's say
you had a sum of money that made you nervous
about the record for the Seahawks this year and maybe
a couple of years beyond. I'm gonna give you a scale,
you and your law degree. You're gonna you're gonna like
this one, okay, from negative ten to ten where zero's neutral.
(08:27):
Ten as you love it, negative ten you despise it.
Just the direction the Seahawks have taken in the last
week or two only talking about the quarterbacks, Geno out,
Sam Darnold in where are you on that scale?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
How many years?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Just whatever's transpire, everything that's transpired. Okay, we'll say to
you over the next two to three years, where where
you are the quarterback?
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Here's the thing about this year. The schedule rotation works
out very favorably for the teams of the NFC West.
Eight of their games will be against teams of the
NFC South and the AFC South, which is critical to
wildcard positioning. I mean, obviously one of the four teams
is going to win the division, but there's going to
be wildcard births available, and it's an easier draw, and
it's half of your games almost. It's eight out of
(09:16):
seventeen games against the two week at divisions right now
in the NFL. So that helps the Seahawks. So that
makes me feel a little bit better than zero. I
just think that this was a situation where they did
not want to give Gino Smith the money he was
looking for. It was north of forty maybe forty five,
so they pivoted to Plan B. And Plan B is
basically one year thirty seven and a half million, with
(09:38):
an option on two years sixty five million, with an
option on three years one hundred point five million. And
so they can see whether or not last year was
an aberration or the unlocking of some new level of
performance like we saw from Geno Smith. The difference between
Smith and Darnald is Smith had his resurgence with the
Seahawks as the starter. They're relying upon what Darnold did
(10:00):
in Minnesota, and assuming it can be duplicated in Seattle,
I'm not sure it can't. Now Quint Kubiak was with
him in San Francisco and they really liked him there,
but they were committed to Brock Party. So I feel
like it's going to be somewhere between zero and ten.
And the flexibility that they'll have in the event that
the wheels come off next year, it lets them go
in a different direction for twenty six. Were to have
(10:21):
a clean slate and any of the guys out there,
whether they draft a guy, sign a guy, trade for
a guy, they've got all options available for twenty twenty six.
So I like the flexibility and I like that they
they found a path out of a tough situation where
Gino Smith wanted more, a lot more than they were
willing to pay. So they came up with another strategy.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Well, give us your answer. There's no there's no wrong answer.
What do you say? What's your number?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Over zero?
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Number zero?
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Like like two, like two and a half.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Okay, all right, Well you know the Cooper Cup signed.
We haven't talked to you since Cooper Cup signed with Seattle.
And my take was, I think I like it. What
Cooper Cup am I getting? So, Mike, what Cooper Cup
do you think I'm getting?
Speaker 5 (11:05):
I'd really want to know exactly why the Rams fell
out of love with this guy as decisively as they did.
I found a comments from yesterday remarkable regarding the fact
that they never gave him much of an explanation as
to why they were moving on. I mean, the bottom
line is they no longer saw him as a number
two receiver and they weren't going to pay him accordingly. Now,
usually when a team does that, what do they do?
(11:26):
They go younger and cheaper. What did the Seahawks or
the Rams? Excuse me, Doe and DeVante Adams.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
So it was all just.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
Very weird, and I think it's a reminder to all
the fans out there who line up behind the laundry.
These players do not get treated well. When it's over.
It's over. When they're done, they're done. This guy was
a Super Bowl MVP, and when the Rams were done,
it would see you later without a word, without an explanation,
You're just gone. And the question becomes, at the price
(11:55):
that the Seahawks got him for, and given that he's
going to be the number two to Jackson Smith and Jigbak,
what are they going to get out of him? And
the key is his health. You know, the argument is, hey,
if Cooper Cup had played every game the last three years,
he would have had over one thousand receiving yards based
upon what he did when he played. Okay, the counter
to that is, but he didn't and being available is critical.
(12:16):
And so he's made eighteen games in three years. That's
more than a full season out of the last three.
So that's the concern. And you know, there may be
other stuff that happened that the Rams didn't like, and
maybe they're just being charitable and not airing it all
out there. I don't know, but the Rams decided they
were done with this guy. And to me, whenever one
team decides it's done with a guy, that's always a
(12:36):
bit of a red flag. And you want to understand
exactly why the team decided that someone who was so
central to their recent Super Bowl win, why they would
fall out of love with him so quickly and so decisively.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, in my all time years of studying, the best
example I can ever give is, you remember the Super
Bowl after twenty twelve. I remember watching Randy Moss on
the forty nine ers against the Ravens and watching that
coaches tape, and I just my mouth was a gape, like, whoa,
(13:10):
I mean, it says Moss. It's the same number. But
he looked like a geriatric now he was thirty five,
but that like, never have I seen a guy just
look so slow? Would you be more concerned from a
Cup standpoint about hey, he just lost a step because
of the age, or how the injuries are impacting his
(13:34):
ability to separate? What's more of a concern The injuries
are the age.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
I think it's a multidirectional chicken in the egg that
goes into age injuries and the Rams making the conscious
decision that the offense is going to be center around
pokin Akua and Cooper Kupp doesn't work as our number two.
And I think that all those things came together and
that's what prompted the Rams first to try to trade him.
(14:01):
And it was obvious from the moment they were trying
to trade. Nobody's taken on a twenty million dollars compensation
package for twenty twenty five, and the Rams would have
had to pay some of the money to make a
trade happen, and that was just never in the cards.
Cup was never going to take less. It's always better
to get cut than get trade because then you can
go to the open market, you can do your best
possible deal. So I think age is an issue. Injury
(14:21):
is an issue. But look, the Seahawks apparently have a
plan here. They're not just playing fantasy football. It's not
just hey, we've heard of Cooper Cup. He was the
Super Bowl MVP, he won the Triple Crown in twenty
and twenty one. He had one of the great single
receiver seasons of all time. Let's go get him. They
surely know what they've seen when they've played them, when
they've gotten ready to play them, and they have a
(14:41):
belief that they can make it work. And now we'll see.
And if he misses seven games because of an ankle injury,
it will have been a mistake. But they've made a
hell of a risk here. They've taken a calculated risk.
And part of it is, look, they've got two guys
who were playing B. So the guys we thought were
going to be there Ginomi Smith gone Plan B. Is
Sam Donald, dk Metcaalk gone Plan B as Cooper Cups.
(15:04):
They're paying less money and they're they're they picked up
draft picks in the transactions, and now well they picked
up one, they picked up a second rounder, and they
picked up a third rounder. So you know they've picked
up some draft picks and they've gone cheaper, and now
we just see what happens.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Hey, Mike, before I let you go, I mean, the
floor for the Bengals when you have Joe Burrow and
Chase and Higgins is going to be fairly high. But
did they think their future by paying two wide receivers
seventy million dollars a year as far as their high
end ceiling.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
I don't think so, because Number one, the Baalery cap
is going to keep going up, so the relative impact
of those deals is going to go down year after year.
The Eagles are paying two receivers at a significant rate,
both DeVonta Smith and aj Brown. I think that they're
recognizing you have to keep the key players on a
competitive team together, and with T Higgins and Jamar Chase,
(15:59):
that offense is more likely to reach its higher level.
There might be a lot of shootouts for the Cincinnati Bengals.
They got a lot of work to do defensively. They
made mistakes in the past, and I think this is
why Joe Burrow took a stand. He took a public
stand he sent messages to the team. I believe privately
he was making it clear that if they didn't get
these guys back, they were going to have a Carson
Palmer type of a problem. And Palmer, back in twenty eleven,
(16:22):
decided the Bengals are prioritized making money over winning and
I want out. And I think Joe Burrow was getting
closer to that conclusion than anyone would admit Burrow himself.
Because it worked, they changed. This is a team that
is notoriously cheap, and I think they had every intent
last year when they tagged the Higgins and drafted Jermaine Burton.
(16:45):
That's how they usually do it. Will tag the guy
that is eligible for a new contract, will draft his replacements,
and then we'll let him go the next year. And
he didn't work out because Burton didn't answer the bell,
and Burrow wanted Higgins there. So now they've got a
lot of money invested in those guys and need to
keep them healthy. They need to keep them effective. But
this is a team that with Burrow they get to
(17:06):
the playoffs. In any given year. They can get hot
because Burrow is one of those rare cats in the NFL.
Who reaches a higher level of performance when you get
the single eliminations football. That's what makes him one of
the most dangerous guys in the NFL right now, and
that's why there's plenty of teams, especially the two that
got to the Super Bowl and the one who win
it should be very happy that the Bengals did not
sneak into the playoffs last year.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Mike, always a pleasure. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Thank guy.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You bas Mike Florio join us when we come back.
We're going to find out what do we think the
Seahawks are as far as value for their money at
the quarterback position and compared to the rest of the NFL.
We'll get huge take on how does Cooper cup fit
in this offense? With JSN coming up next on ninety
three point three KJRFM, we're.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Listening to the exclusive home of the Huskies, the Cracking
and March Madness. Now back to Softie and Dick, proudly
brought to you by Emerald guin Casino on Sports Radio
ninety three point three KJRM.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
So, Hugh, I made a little list here.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I found twenty teams right now in the NFL that
have quarterbacks signed to veteran contracts. So we're not talking
about teams wandering aimlessly in the woods like the Steelers,
the Jets, the Giants. We're not talking about those teams
because they really don't have quarterbacks. We're not talking about
teams like the Texans and the Commanders that have guys
(18:35):
on rookie contracts. I'm just looking at the twenty veteran
contract quarterback situations in the NFL, and I want to say, Okay,
where do I think the Seahawks fit on that list?
If you put into play how good your quarterback is
and the bang for the buck that you're getting, so
you just put them all in that one ranking, and
really there's very few quarterback situations that I would trade
(19:01):
Sam Donald for. Now, you've got your no brainers, right,
you got your I think can we all agree that
we would trade Donald and his contract for the contract
situation of Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson,
and Justin Herbert. Sure, Yeah, yeah, sorry, I mean those
are yeah, those are the elite of the elite.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You're gonna pay elite money for those.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
These are the ones that I probably would trade Donald for.
These situations, but I'm not totally positive. Jalen Hurts, Matt Stafford,
Baker Mayfield those three are I mean, would you rather
have Jalen Hurts his dealer, Would you rather have Sam
donald is his deal I think those are debatable, but
(19:45):
I'd probably rather have Hurt, Stafford and Baker than what
Donald is doing.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Well.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
We talked before the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Jalen Hurts had arguably one of the best teams around
him that we've seen in the Super Bowl ERAa. When
you consider, you know, PFF number one offensive line, PFF
number one tandem. When you consider AJ Brown was number three,
they're third ranked and Devonte Smith is thirteen at three
and thirteen, that's sixteen. The next closest was the Bengals nineteen,
(20:16):
which lowest means best. Obviously the number one defense in
the NFL. I mean, he had everything. So I think
you put Jalen Hurts on the Giants and it's a
nothing burger and they're right back looking for somebody to
replace him.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So you might not even have Hurts on that list then, But.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think that Hurts I probably undervalue. I don't believe
in him. I believe in Jared Goff more than you do.
And I know from our conversations through the years. Now
I think Jared Goff is a great blend. They have
built the team around his strengths. Let me tell you,
let me say this very firmly. There is nobody and
(20:57):
I mean nobody that operates under center play action like
Jared Goff. He he is in a class and nobody
everybody else's. He's secretary at in the Belmont thirty one
links ahead of the next guy. And you know what
the next guy is, Sam Donald.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So I've been doing a lot of studying on this.
I just did a presentation today to the thirty third
team on Sam Donald and Gino Smith. So I have
been you know, I would ordinarily be doing my racking.
It's been accelerated focus for me. And that whole concept.
You say, why does that matter? You got Clint Kubiak
trying to come in and play under center wide zone
(21:37):
and the play action that comes off of that when
you have to turn your back to the defense and
then put your foot in the ground and then and
having processed in a very short amount of time and
not be late, don't take an extra hitch, and you
got to throw that ball, and then when you fi
further filter Jared Goff over the middle between the numbers,
he like blows.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
It's like a knockout. He blows every buddy away.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
There is a style that Jared Goff plays that I
think that, in my opinion, football fans don't appreciate how
good that guy is.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
I think that's fair. He is.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
He at the very highest levels. No, but I'm telling
you if he's not, maybe he's not in League one A.
By the way, on that subject, you know, there's been
eight quarterbacks in history that have had four thousand yards
and fourteen wins, eight total. Jared Goff's won and Sam
Donald is another.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, well, Donald GoF I had in the next category,
which it was close, But I probably wouldn't trade Donald
for him, not because I don't think he's a better
quarterback than Donald. Goff has grown on me. You're right,
I've been negative nelly on GoF for a long long time.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
He has grown on me.
Speaker 6 (22:47):
But would I.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Trade Sam Donald at thirty three point five million for
Jared Goff at fifty three million? I don't think I would.
I don't think there's a there. I think the what
I could use with that other twenty million dollars I
think makes up for them the Lions.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Do you think they'll No, that's a different Let's just
say for the sake of discussion that I stipulate what
you just said. Yeah, that's sound. That's a different question
than whether the Lions would jettison golf.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And I don't think that Donald, and I don't think and.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Gain the twenty Like if you if you go as
you went to the Lions right now and said you
can have Donald for twenty two million less than golf,
they would say, no, we need golf, and we're willing
to pay the extra ten two million because we built
our team around his skill set.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And not only that, they're also in a different situation
that the Seahawks are. They're in a championship win it
in twenty twenty five mode, where I still think the
Seahawks are, you know, hopefully going to compete for a
championship a little bit more down the road. So I
don't think they would mess up anything that that they've
got going for you. And then you know, the last
(24:02):
category are just these awful contracts. I mean, dak Kyler,
Deshaun Watson's the worst of the worst. Tua, Cousins, car whatever,
Aaron Rodgers signs for whatever, Russell Wilson signs for hell
Gino Smith.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I like Gino, but Gino's.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Gonna sign for what I think is going to be
too much money. So, I mean, you rank it all
out there. If we throw Jalen Hurts into the we
wouldn't trade Sam Darnold for the Jalen Hurts contract situation,
then he's fifth overall, maybe sixth if you traded golf
with Hurt. So we're talking about about the fifth or
(24:42):
sixth the best veteran contract situation in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That is a Seahawk fan. Yeah makes me happy. Yeah, yeah, No,
I get it. I mean I think that Are you
a high five guy? This analogy just came to my mind.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Five.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I'm gonna just I'm gonna wing this thing in a
well no, no, no, high five five stereo equipment for
people like who you know who get like Macintosh and
these just these these high end uh uh amplifiers and
and uh you know, digital analog converters, and that there's
(25:18):
what's called an audio file. The term is called audio
file and and so it's like exponents, you have diminishing returns.
So that if you go out and you get a
stereo system for your home theater and you want to
spend five grand, and then you say, well, obviously there's
one that you could spend ten grand on. You're not
getting double the sound. Your ten ground is going to
(25:38):
sound better than your five, but it's not going to
be double, and and and so on and so and forth.
And I mean there's literally there's two million dollars uh
uh uh stereo systems just left right speaker and an amp,
and so you got diminishing returns. But I think that
and quarterbacks can be that way. You pay you just
(26:00):
to get that extra five or ten percent, You gotta
pay double to get that. But guess what that extra
five or ten percent is. Oftentimes the difference in a
league where you're so many games are balancing on the
blade of a knife. You're paying double for that five
(26:21):
percent better quarterback. And I'm just you can change my
numbers around, but if you can, if you can grasp
onto that general philosophy, that that's what you're gonna always
be dealing with. I think with quarterbacks thirty.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Forty one back with more humillin next on ninety three
point three KJRFM.
Speaker 7 (26:37):
You're listening to the exclusive home of the Huskies, the
Kraken and March Madness. Now back to SOFTI and Dick,
proudly brought to you by Emerald quin Casino on Sports
Radio ninety three point three KJRM.
Speaker 8 (26:51):
Eight years with the Rams. I think it's tagged with
the slot like, No, I don't know how you determined that.
When we're in condensed formations, I'm outside, but I'm running
a slot route.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
You know, I'm you know, I'm out.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
A lot of times I was outside, and I'm not
sure if it was being tagged as slot routes or not.
But you can't think of yourself as just a slot
you got you got to see yourself as paying any
one of these positions at anytime, because you could be
asked run any one of these routes.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
That's the new scatle Seahawk Wide receiver Cooper Cup yesterday
in his press conference, you'll hear his conversation that he
had with Softy and myself.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
That'll come up at four thirty today, But let's talk
about that. Hugh.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Nobody better to talk about condensed sets with than Hugh
Breed love Mill And it's gonna be a it's gonna
be a little bit of a change. You know, we're
into the the Shanahan tree, which McVay McVay comes from,
Kubiak comes from. So it should be a comfortable transition
from La to Seattle for him, shouldn't it.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I mean I think that you're Let's see how
they run the offense. Let me try and see if
I can explain what he said. If you have let's
say you get into two by two formation and everybody's
spread out really wide, okay, so that the widest receivers
they are very close to the sideline, So this is
not condensed formations, all right, And then you've got a
(28:10):
slot and then further in closer to the ball. Then
you've got your offensive lineman. And where the ball is,
let's say, balls right's dead in the middle of the field.
If I'm the diamidor Leonore, the best corner for the
forty nine ers, If Cooper Cup comes out and he
lines up at you know, four or five yards from
(28:31):
the sideline, that's a wide split. And now what am
I thinking. I'm saying, Okay, you don't have enough space
to run any type of speed out route. The only
way you can go outside of me is to is
to run and then come to a stop and run
a comeback. Okay, so that's a key. You can't run
(28:51):
a corner route, you can't run a sale route. You
can't what Mike will run, what Mike Holp McGan calls
an OKI route, the six step out route. Your split
is too wide, and you are outside of my divider.
My divider tells me that I want to be on
the inside of you. Now, go ahead, Cooper, you go
up the sideline. I know you can't speed cut to
(29:11):
the outside.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
I have to.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I don't have any help over the top on a
go route, but you're not that fast, so I can
cruise at about ninety percent. And then if you start
to stop on a comeback, I'm on your inside, so
I'm in good leverage on a hook route and then
I can play your comeback. Okay, easy to cover. Now
in that case, Cooper Cup is number one. You count
from the outside ind one to two, and whoever was
(29:35):
in the slot the number two. Again, you count from
the sideline in that is clearly a slot. Now when
you say all right, now we're going to take Cooper
Cup We're going to bring him much closer to the ball,
all right, almost, you know, like four or five yards
outside the tackle, and we're gonna motion and we're gonna
get we're gonna snap the ball right when about a
yard away from somebody being you know, now, if you're
(29:58):
a sabernutrition, are you saying, well, is that guy the slot?
Was Puka Nakua the slot? Because he was technically a
yard inside, but he was. He was screaming like hell
and he was and he turned into the number one
within a split second after the ball. So do we
how do we even say it was he the number
one or the number two? Furthermore, now I'm Diamidor Lenore
(30:21):
and Cooper Cup has come inside. But now he's reduced
his split. He is closer to the ball. Now he
is inside of my divider, and I have to align
not to the inside of him. I have to line
to the outside of him because there's a lot of grass.
Now Cooper Cup can do a speed cut. He doesn't
have to come to a stop to do an outbreaking route.
He has all he has a corner route to at
(30:42):
his disposal. He has a speed out. He can do
the quick out the Omaha like, there's all kinds of
outbreaking routes.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
One quick question of clarification, where is where's Pooka right
now compared to where you were talking about because you
mentioned Pooka was the one.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
We can put in in this In this case, we've
just reduced it. So Puka's close to the ball and
he's in the slot, and and you've got a Cup.
He's closer to the ball and he's outside. Technically he's
number one. He's not in the slot. Okay, he's still
the number one. What's number one? One is the first
guy from the sideline in Okay, So, but now Cup,
(31:19):
he's he's in an alignment even though he's aligned at
number one relative to the ball, it says if he's
in the slot, because he's much closer to the ball
and relative to the sideline, he's much it's like he's
in the slot. He can do speed cuts to the
out and it's his crossing routes to get over to
the other side of the field or or stop in
(31:40):
the middle of the hash marks. He's very close to
the the middle of the field like he's in the slot.
So you know, shallow cross, intermediate cross, the stop routes,
all of those things that now he's he's dwelling in
the domain of linebackers. Even though he lined up at
number one, he's got diamador lador leonor on his outside
(32:02):
leverage because of the divider rule. The divided rule is
what how close you are to the sideline versus how
close you are to the ball. You get too close
to the ball, you now you've intersected the divider rule,
the corner ass the state of the outside. So now
what what what Cup is trying to say is that
even though he is is uh technically the.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Widest guy, he's running slot routes or right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, and both on the same but both of them
on the same side. Does that Does that translate you
think into JSN and Cooper Cup lining up on the
same side of the field.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Often, Oh, that'll happen, absolutely because there's two man combinations
that that are a load on somebody say, you know,
two great players on one side.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
One goes in or meet at.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
JSN runs a corner route, and Cooper Cup runs an
outside out route, a shallow out route, or maybe he
Cooper Cup runs a little option route. And so now
Sam Darnold comes back and he's He's like, hey, I'm
gonna peek at JSN. If he wins, I'm gonna go
down the field and try and get me a you know,
twenty two yard game. If he doesn't, I'm gonna hit
(33:12):
Cooper underneath because I'm I'm satisfied that he's gonna win
over there. So they'll have times where jays N's on
the opposite side and and uh and on.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
The same side.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
But but when Cooper Cupp talks about, hey, when I
reduce my splits now, the route tree is a lot
like being a slot receiver based on where he is
relative to the balls to the inside and the sideline
to the outside.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Great stuff. I wish we had more time.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
We got a lot going on, including Petros, Brian schmidtzer
Dan Bilesma coming up. So we're gonna we're gonna let
you go. We're gonna give you a couple hours off
and we'll talk to you on Monday. All right, hammer down,
all right, appreciate it. That's a great hour, a great
hour of football with Hugh Millen here. Petros Papadeka is
coming up next. Our conversation with Cooper Cup that we
had yesterday. We'll run that at four fourth thirty today,
(34:01):
Brian Schmetzer at five, Lancer Line talking draft at five
point thirty, and Dan bilsmant five forty five leading into
Kraken Hockey right here on ninety three point three k
JRFM
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