Danielle Chang Gardner "The Power of Community Support in Emotional Recovery"

Episode Transcript
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Makini Smith (00:00):
I'm Makini Smith. After going through a
divorce, my sister passing away, experiencing narcissistic
abuse and some significant health scares, I
realized through sharing my story that I
wasn't alone in my suffering. Suffering, subjective
distress generated by the experience of being
out of balance in a deep dive
to holistically heal mind, body and soul

(00:22):
is where I discovered peace, clarity and
connection. It is impossible to be truly
wise without some real life hardship and
we cannot develop post traumatic wisdom without
making it through and most importantly, through
it together. Social connection builds resilience and
resilience helps create post traumatic wisdom. And

(00:45):
that wisdom leads to hope. Hope for
you and others, witnessing and participating in
your healing and hope for your community.
A healthy community is a healing community
and a healing community is full of
hope because it has seen its own
people weather, survive and thrive. Before we

(01:21):
dive in, let's talk self care. Shades
of youf is my new adult coloring
book designed for Black women and women
of color to relax de stress and
celebrate our beauty, strength and diversity of
our experiences. Take a moment for yourself,
take a break de stress and express
yourself with empowering illustrations. Available now on

(01:45):
Amazon or mckinneysmith.com Today's guest expert is
Danielle Chang Gardner, a relational psychotherapist and
the founder of Roots of Purpose Mental
Health Services. With a deep belief that
relationships are the foundation of our lives,

(02:05):
starting with the relationship we have with
ourselves, Danielle is dedicated to helping individuals
foster connection, resilience and healing. Danielle's passion
for supporting others emerged from her commitment
to helping people navigate stressful experiences and
recover from trauma. This passion led to
her established ROP in late 2022. What

(02:30):
began as her solo practice has since
flourished into a thriving clinic with a
team of five therapists, all committed to
providing compassionate and culturally sensitive care. Beyond
her work at ROP, Danielle has been
a YouTube influencer and an organizer of
transformative self help and social events, including

(02:52):
her Redefining her and Date Night. Known
for her optimism and infectious laugh, Danielle
brings warmth and enthusiasm to every interaction,
inspiring her clients and community to embrace
healing and personal growth. So please welcome
to the show Danielle Chang Gardner.

Danielle Gardner (03:13):
Hi everybody. Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much for agreeing to
come on and share your story and
your expertise with us. I had put
out a post on social media asking
people to recommend Black therapists, Black experts,
and your name came up a couple
of times and I'm like, I know
who Danny is. Like, I had fun.

I was so impressed by I was
like, who's like, you know, I I
thank You. To the people who suggested
me, you know, because I have wanted
to be on your podcast. Actually, you
were one of the ones on my
bucket list. So, you know, it's like,
nice, nice.

I. I love asking my audience, my
network, my community, like, who they recommend
for things. And I. I love hearing
oftentimes like, okay, you know, they say
that, you know, either they. There's. They
say that women can't get along or
that black women don't support each other.
All these things. Yes, that can be

(04:12):
true. But two things can be true
at the same time, because I have
had amazing, amazing women that have supported
me, that have called my name in
rooms that I would never be invited
to, referred me for things that, you
know, I wouldn't directly have access to.
So I. I know that we are
surrounded by great people, especially because more
than one person recommended you.

You know what? I. I agree with
you. Two things can be true at
the same time. I actually tell clients
that all the time because I think
it is so true. And even for
myself in my business, I wouldn't have
been able to quit my 9 to
5 if other black women hadn't put
me on. Right. Got me organizational contact,
et cetera, et cetera. But yes.

Okay, so let start. Actually, let. Let
me do my icebreaker first, because I
like to get to know more the
foundation of who you are before we
get to where you are presently. So,
you know, culture, society, our families, they
unintentionally limit our beliefs. And as kids,
we have these vivid imaginations of who

(05:20):
we want to be and what we
want to be when we grow up.
So I would love to know, who
did Danielle want to be when she
was a little girl?

Wow. I haven't asked this question for
a minute, but actually, I wanted to
be a singer. Okay. Yeah, I wanted
to be a singer. I was like,
I'm gonna be on stage. I used
to perform for my parents and, you
know, and I also used to even,
like, sing at talent shows in the
mall. Remember back in the day, people
used to perform. Yep. So I was
thinking I was gonna be a singer.

(05:51):
Yep. Okay.

Okay. Can you. Can you actually say
no?

I swear. Retirements. Like, I'm not a
good anymore. But don't get me wrong,
I will. I will go off in
a karaoke. I just recently had my
40th, and we had a karaoke birthday
party. And. Yeah, it was Happy belated.
You. It was a Danny concert.

So.

Yeah. So I love.

Okay. Okay. So I'll. I. I would
also like to know what type of
teenager were you? You know, they say
sometimes you've got, you know, teenage girls
that are rebellious or they've got teenage
girls like myself that are like super
quiet and introverted and try to stay
out of trouble.

Yeah, no, I was a bad read.
I'm not even going to lie. She
was worried I wasn't going to finish
high school. Yeah. And that kind of
went a little bit into college too.
Some of that immaturity. Centennial college. Right.
But after that I really smartened up
and realized, okay, you know what, I
need to drop this, you know, little

(06:53):
bad girl business and together. So people
who know me back then, you know,
I'm sorry if I was to some
people because I know I was a
bad breed at that age. Yeah.

You know, I, I find it interesting
that a lot of the women that
I interview or even that, like, I
read their books and their memoirs that
are in the mental health space, that
are therapists and mental health experts. I
love hearing the beginning of the journey

(07:28):
and how you guys have evolved because,
you know, there's always people that will
see someone else's life and say that's
not attainable for them or that, you
know, they can't be that not knowing
your story, you know, them making assumptions
of what your life was like because
of where you are presently, but not
understanding. There was a journey.

Oh, yes, there was a journey. I
definitely had anger related issues. And now
looking back on it, I know some
of the reasons why I had some
of those anger related issues. But I'm
a testament to my clients who say
I don't know how to better control
my emotions or control my anger. I'm

(08:08):
like, listen, I can do it. You
know, you can do it.

Yes.

Yes.

And I have to remind people like
therapists, coaches, all the people that are
in these positions helping others to better
themselves, we're human. Like, we have the
same experiences you have. We experience the
same feelings you have. We just have
our toolbox that we go into, but
sometimes we forget the toolbox is there.

Oh, yes, exactly. And I think also
once you have that toolbox, it's just
maybe that you're better able to cope
or recoup quicker. Right. Like, for me,
that's what a lot of people come
to me for. They're like, yo, like,
how did you manage to like, one
of my best guy friends used to
call me and I know, like, this
can have some stigma associated because black

(08:59):
women are kind of always, you know,
kind of always seen to be this
type. But he calls me the bounce
back Queen, right? Yeah, yeah. Anything that's
supposed to kind of bring you down.
I noticed that you just, like. He
goes. Bounce right back. Right. And he
actually had me talk to a friend
of his who was going through divorce
and things like that, because I just
always, like. Thankfully, one of my, like,

(09:22):
you know, superpowers is that I'm able
to be very resilient. You know, I
know that as black women, that could
be sometimes something that, you know, people
are almost expecting us to be super
resilient. So I'm not promoting that, but
I'm just saying that for me, that's
always been something that I've been able
to do.

You know, my background. Resilience is my
superpower. Okay.

Yes, you're right.

Yeah. I have it tattooed on my
arm. It's. I had. Same as you.
I have a male friend that for
years. I mean, he's known me since
I was probably in grade nine. And
he's always talked about my ability to
bounce back from adversity and how he's
watched me go through things that probably
would have killed him. And, yes, as

(10:08):
black women, we are known and almost
expected to be resilient, but I had
to learn in the last few years
the difference between healthy resilience and unhealthy
resilience.

You can still be sad, you can
still cry. You can still, you know,
go to therapy, you know.

Yes.

Have to be superwoman, you know?

Yes. Yes. Okay, so I would love
to know what inspired you to pursue
your career in social work and mental
health. What led you to also founding
your company?

Yeah. Okay. Well, girl, that's a mouthful.
Okay, so in terms of getting into
this area, I'll be honest. When I
was younger, I don't believe my parents
really told me, like. Like, it wasn't
like I was in a family where
they're like, be a doctor, be a
lawyer. My dad's just like, go to
school. You know what I mean? So
I was like, okay, what do I
do? I know I need to go
to school, but what do I do?
Actually do? And I knew that I

(11:00):
was good at chatting it up, talking
to people, whatnot. So I thought, honestly,
let me try social services. If I'm
being really honest, I kind of just
did it because I knew I liked
working with people, and I thought it
was something where I could work with
people. So I went to Centennial College,
right? And. And then obviously from there,
I went to York and did my
bsw. Well, actually, I first went into

(11:21):
sociology, and my mom said, you know
what? You should get into something more
specific. And so they shout out to
moms. Because I got into social work
and then I did my master's in
social work, which then I worked in
many different areas. I worked as a
youth worker, I worked in employment. I
worked in. At like. Well, I did

(11:41):
my placements, both of them, at cas.
And then I eventually was like, you
know what? I want to get out
of, like, working. I. I'll be honest.
I don't. Like nine to five. I.
I don't like it.

I. I did a good. I say
I'm unemployable.

I did a good 10 years of
it. Like, yeah, but about 10 years
of it. And even when I was
there, I said, like, guys, like, I'm
not going to be with you guys
here another 20 years. Like, I'm just
not. Like, I'm gonna have to figure
something out, right? People thought I might
have been a. An event planner. Because
when I was in my younger years,
like from 19 to maybe like 24,

(12:18):
I used to throw parties. And not
everyone knows that, but people who know
Danny, from back in the day shout
outs to 4G's entertainment, knows that I
used to throw parties, right? And we'd
have like three to five hundred people
at our parties. We would all promote
them at our schools because it was
for me, four girls, me and three
of my other girlfriends. So I've always
been that type of person that brings
people together. But before it was just

(12:40):
like, you know, those are gay parties
and whatnot. And then I expanded to
doing something totally different in. I actually
used to do Christian concerts for a
little bit with a friend of mine.
Yeah, I really went like one extreme
to the right. And I remember she
said, danny, you can't be going to
parties and we're doing these. And I
was like, I don't know if this

(13:01):
is going to work out, but so
we. So we also did that. And
then eventually. Anyway, so going back with
my 9 to 5, I was like,
you know what? I have to figure
out something else. So I started doing
landlord tenant disputes, like mediation. And then
a friend of mine was in psychotherapy,
and she said, danny, if you can
deal with these landlord tenant disputes, you

(13:22):
can do psychotherapy. And she connected me
with her employer, and I started doing
that on the side after seeing what.
What the lady that I was working
for was doing. I said, you know
what? I could do this myself. And
then I think Covid. I think for
a lot of people was that little
push.

Yes.

Like, probably would have done it regardless,
but it might have taken me a
longer time as of COVID And, you
know, I'll just say, due to not
wanting to do certain things, I ended
up. I ended up saying, you know
what? And I also was pregnant. I
was. I was seven months pregnant. And
then I, you know, at that point,

(14:04):
I just, like, you know, got off
of work early, you know, and I
took the year and a half mat
leave. And during that time, I transitioned
into doing my practice full time. And
I just. Yeah, and I just went
head first. I just went right in
and I just started going, going, going.
I think what helped is that I
already knew a lot of people, which

(14:24):
just. And I do the events. I
do women's events. I do date night
events with another friend of mine. So
all of those things helped. Just having
a good network helps me a lot
in terms of business because we only
just reached the two year mark, and
I'm making, like, more now than I
have in any other job previously. Right.

(14:45):
So thank you. So I'm so thankful.
But I know it's because of the
dope people I have around me and
the community that I've built over time.

Mm. I feel like the pandemic, two
things. I mean, for a lot of
people that I spoke to, the pandemic
forced them to pivot, and they ended
up pivoting into something where they were
able to thrive more because they were
more intentional with what they were doing.

(15:14):
And then there were some people, I
guess, where the pandemic hit them so
hard, they had, like, a hard time
recovering from that.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like people either
had a really. Yeah. A really, like,
great time or a really bad time.
Like, I have also had a really
rough time. Fortunately for me, I think
at the time, it just worked out
perfectly. Like, I was pregnant during the
pandemic time, so I would have been
home anyway. Minded my. You. Right. But

(15:45):
it just worked out that it was
actually like. It was actually like, obviously
it was, you know, not for the
whole world. It wasn't a great thing,
but for me it was. It was
good. Like, it used a lot of
good things.

What. I guess when you. Okay, so
when you decided to focus.

On being in the question, just so
I know what was the. Because I'm
like, are you part of the question?
So.

Yes, it. We're good. We're good. When
you decided to pivot into being a
psychotherapist, like, what gaps in the mental
health services did you, I guess, notice
that motivated you to create your practice
and tailor it to diverse communities?

Oh, goodness. Well, I Think, number one,
the gap. Even though I love now
that I'm seeing more and more black
psychotherapists, I love it. Right. But for
a lot of my clients, I'm their
first black psychotherapist. Right. They just say
it's very refreshing to not have to
over explain things. Just certain things I
understand. Like, yeah, I get it. Like
you're, you're like, I don't know, your

(16:56):
grandpa has like 15 kids. Yeah, I
get it. Like my grandpa.

My dad, like 21. Right.

But like, like, I know that's like
just, you know, that's a funny example.
But what I mean is just certain
things that like, we understand as other,
you know, black women, we. It's just
a shared understanding. Right. And I think
that a lot of people really appreciate
that. Although I have clients from, you
know, every background, you know, male, female,

(17:25):
I would say a lot of my
clients are black women. And a lot
of them are in like, are like
high performing black women too. Right. And
I think that's by virtue of, you
know, being a black woman myself, you
know, and then just the network that
I've kind of built over time too.
So. Yeah, I love science and it's
worked out really well.

I love that for so many reasons.
And I know when, when I was
looking for a black woman therapist, there
wasn't many options. And like my therapist
now, I ended up having to go
with a woman of color, but she's
not necessarily black still from the Caribbean.
And now, like, I know. So I

(18:08):
feel like almost all the black therapists
in Canada, I know who they are.
Like, they're a part of my network.
I've had half of them on the
podcast.

Yeah, I know.

There'S so many of you.

Yeah, I know, it's. It's actually awesome.
But it's funny, even though now you
feel like there's so many, if you
actually look at everyone, we're still a
minority. Like, people still tell me they're
like, they have like, are having trouble
finding a black female therapist whose client
list is in full, who. There's not
a wait list, all of these things.

Right.

So I'm glad that there are more
of us, but there is still that.
There is still the need for, you
know, you know, future, you know, black
women to get into this profession because
you are needed. And also I think
what a lot of my clients really
appreciate is my authenticity. I'm definitely someone
who, I'm not going to be talking
a bunch of jargon that you don't

(18:58):
understand. I'm very Like, I like to
say things in layman's terms and I
also, when appropriate, you know, like to
share little tidbits like, of my life,
of how I've overcome certain things. And
I feel like it kind of builds
the rapport and lets you know that
I'm not trying to come here like
some, you know, expert, all knowing person.
Right. Like, I'm, as you said, I'm

(19:19):
also human, just like you. And we're
here on this journey together and I'm
just here to, you know, assist you
to help yourself, basically.

Absolutely.

Already have the answer.

I feel like for so many years,
the stigma of mental health in the
black community prevented a lot of people
from getting the support that they needed.
So seeing more black therapists out there
and hearing that, you know, they have
wait list that they, you know, don't
even have the capacity to take on
more clients, but there's more people that

(19:53):
are looking for support from them. There's
more people getting help, more people seeking
help is also great to hear. And
I think maybe a lot of the
awareness that we've had since the pandemic
about mental health, I'm hoping that's what
help people realize. Okay, I don't need
to be crazy. I don't need to,

(20:15):
I guess, subscribe to the West Indian
stereotype that need to be locked up.
If anything to do with mental health,
like, or you, you know, you don't
get disowned by your family.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's funny
because even when I chose this profession
initially, my dad was just like, if
you. My dad's a 78 year old
Jamaican, right. So he understands now, but
at the beginning he's like, no, no,
no, Daniela, talk to people. And he

(20:46):
could not answer the question. Okay. But
I think over time he's realized, like,
he's realized what I do. Some of
his actually even people within his network
have reached out or like maybe for
their kids or for other people in
the community. So he's like, oh, okay.
He goes, okay, like now he gets
it. He's starting to get good.

Good, Very good. What have been some
other, I guess, unique challenges that you
faced providing culturally sensitive mental health care
and how have you overcome them?

Yeah. Okay, so some, some challenges that
I've personally faced providing this care. I
think another challenge is afforded, I'll be
honest, affordability. Because at the end of
the day, I think my prices are
kind of middle of line. But I
understand that for some people it's still
out of reach for them. Right. For
our People, it's still out of reach
for them. Right. I would love in

(21:38):
the future, once I get to that
point like maybe have a non profit.
Sorry side to my business where I
could serve some of those people too
because I like that's a section of
the community that unfortunately I'm not able
to currently help. Right. Because also need
to you know, pay my house bill
and my. But. And I'm a for

(22:00):
profit right now but it's definitely something
that I'm aware of and that I
do want to address and that sometimes
like if I speak for a non
profit organization I charge less and things
like that. But you know, at this
point there's only so much I can
do with that in that regard and
I do think that that's another barrier
for our community, just affordability if they

(22:22):
don't have a job where they do
have those benefits.

Yeah, I, I've had this conversation with
quite a few people because it's like
the people who can't afford therapy are
typically the ones who need it the
most. And then the wait list, if
you go through your general practitioner. I
remember when my middle daughter was. Oh
geez, she was probably like eight or

(22:46):
so and I was going through the
divorce with my ex husband and she
needed the most emotional support and we
had to wait like almost a year
to get in to see this doctor.
You know what I mean? So it
was a lot. I mean times have
changed for me. Pardon?

I said. And then. Sorry to interrupt
you. But then when you get in
you may or may not even connect
with that person that they. That part.

That part. Right. That's what like. And
I'm, I'm grateful for where life is
for me now and I feel blessed
to the fact that I like pre
schedule weekly appointments with my therapist. People
are like, I'm sorry, how much do
you spent on therapy? I'm like, it's
worth it.

But you know what? Yeah, yeah. And
I did. I definitely do think therapy
is worth it. But I also understand
if you don't have it, you don't
have it. Right.

Yeah.

This is between food and paying your.

Rent or survival mode. Yeah.

You know, you're, you're, you know, those
things come first.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I know there, there
are so many ways and I've talked
about this on previous episodes so I'm
not going to get into it too
heavy. But there's so many other ways
that people, if you can't afford therapy,
there are things that you can do,
there are resources out there. You know,
there's Free fasts, churches, community group. Yes,

(24:11):
absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah, you're. You're totally right. And I
guess if you've already talked about it,
I will. But yeah, I've shared that
with people too. People that like, are
unable to, you know, afford services. I've
tried to, you know, recommend some free
services, let them know about other, you
know, even supports that might be just
in their general area. Right.

Yeah.

And I also am a firm believer
that although I am a believer that
everyone should at least try therapy if
they're able to. Right. I'm also not
opposed to someone who says, you know
what, I go to my youth group,
say I have a, I don't know,
a discipler. And that's enough for me.
I think that's great. Like, that's awesome.
Whoever is fulfilling that need for you

(24:52):
and keeping your mental health, you know.
Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. I can't remember the name.
I think it's in what happened to
you with Oprah and Dr. Bruce Perry,
I think. But they were talking about
healing in different communities and they were
talking about the, I guess the ancestral
way in the indigenous community and in

(25:17):
African communities that don't have quote unquote,
therapy, but they're forms of healing is
through community. It's through, you know, supporting
each other and all those things. So
there are different modalities, ways to heal.
For sure.

100. That's why I actually love. I've
seen other black therapists have like healing
circles and things like that. And I
agree with you. There are so many
other modalities and there's so many other
ways even that, as you mentioned, that
our ancestors used to have that community.
Right. When we talk about community too,
I even think about my daughter. Right.
And raising my daughter. And I'm just

(25:53):
again, like very fortunate that I have
a strong community around me. Like, I
have my mom at my dad, I
have my sister. I have my like,
friend who just who comes over all
the time with her. Pick me. Right?
And I'm just like, I don't think
we're supposed to be in a silo
by ourselves, kids.

It does take a village.

Like someone that's like, by themselves. By
themselves. Say they're in a new country
or they just don't have that support
network. I'm just thinking like, my goodness,
like the mental health toll on you
doing that by yourself.

Yeah.

And I don't even want.

Okay, see, listen, I joke with my
daughter. So my middle daughter made me
a grandmother about a year ago. And
some like, I, I strongly believe her
Daughter is like the easiest going baby
I've ever experienced in my life. Like
even when she cries is cute. So
when she gets frustrated, I explain to
her like, you're, you have a community,

(26:51):
you have your parents, you have your
grandparents, you have your siblings, you have
your partner, you have a community and
you still get frustrated with one. Like
I was a single mom of three.
Like, you know what I mean? There
are people out there that don't have
these support systems, they don't have supportive
families that don't have supportive friends. So
just remember to be grateful that you

(27:14):
have this.

Yeah. And what I also tell like
some of my clients too is sometimes
I even work with them on how
to, if you don't have that community,
let's work on like some ways in
which you could potentially expand that. Let's
get you involved in some community activities.
Going to like, because I do think
it's something valuable to put time into
to try to start to build that

(27:35):
community if you don't have it because
really is invaluable.

Absolutely, absolutely. I, I, I would love
to know like what's been your most
challenging aspect of your own personal healing
journey and how did you navigate through
that?

Yeah, I think I always like run
this joke that all of my trauma
took place in adulthood because I honestly
shout out to my parents, I feel
like I had the wickedest, nicest childhood.
Right. But in terms of my adulthood,
I have been, you know, I have

(28:11):
been divorced. You know, I am no
longer with my daughter's father. So I've
had two months on long term relationships.
And I think that in both of
those cases I was kind of rushing
and letting like societal expectations kind of
me a little bit more than my
own brain.

Right.

Like I think when I was with
my ex husband, I think I got
to a certain age at a certain
point and I thought, okay, well now
we need to get married. Like I'm
at that age and it's, and it's
that time, you know, and I'm very
forthright. I think I basically told him
that, you know, that he or I
were like completely ready, especially not him.

(28:51):
But like, you know, but both of
us fairly. Right. And, but I think
that, yeah, I think I just thought
that this is the time that this
place supposed to do this and we
should do this now. But really when
I look at our relationship, I'm like,
we had a bunch of stuff that
we do to work on before even
thinking about getting married. Right. In all
fairness. Right. And then even like with

(29:13):
my daughter, I think I was just
at a point where I was like,
oh, late 30s, I want to have
a. I want to have a baby.
Nope. But it's always like this rush,
right. And it's like. And I think
a lot of women can resonate with
that in the sense that we all
kind of feel these pressures, right. For
different things. Right.

Unspoken timelines.

Unspoken timelines, Right. And I think what
I say is beautiful right now is
because, like, I have been married because
I do have my daughter. I feel
like now I'm kind of just like,
you know, unless, like, unless you're really
saying something like.

I've never done that. Let me not.
Let me do this.

Right. Yeah, exactly. And I really think
I would want to take the time
to make sure that that is the
person that I want and not simply
choosing who chooses me.

Yeah.

Because I think in the past I've
done that a lot. Right. This guy's,
you know, showing me like all this
affection and all this stuff. Okay. You
know, let me give him a chance,
you know? But am I really doing
the choosing or am I just choosing
who's choosing me? So now I just
have more clarity in that respect. But
I think that in my personal journey

(30:27):
has been something that I've had to
work through and it took a while,
you know what I mean? Like I
said quite two times.

Right.

But there were good parts out of
that too, though. I see everything, I
see life as a journey and I
actually wouldn't change anything about the journey
because I don't know that I would
be where I met now. Right. Had
I gone through all of those things.

Things, yeah. Listen, I can totally relate
with, you know, being, I guess, chosen
and not necessarily choosing. And I was
chosen by some people that were emotionally
unavailable. And I think because I didn't

(31:10):
realize at the time the healing that
I needed to do, I let them
in and was completely vulnerable and allowed
things to happen. And then after having
my heart broken and my bank accounts
emptied, I was like, what just happened?
Like, what? And that was the. The

(31:32):
trigger to my deep healing because I
was like, okay, there's some work that
needs to be done here because I'm
attracting something and I don't want to
do that anymore. So things have completely
changed.

Until we learn the lesson, I find
that we keep. Keep attracting the same
types of situations, like in lives, Right.
And even though the two people that
I was in those long term relationships
were totally different, like they were literally
like two very different guys. But, like,
what. I know what you mean, but
a lot of the same, like, issues
when you get down to the core,
but they were. It's very interesting. It's

(32:06):
very interesting. That works. And I think
really that you do have to learn
the lesson. And you also, I think,
have to be okay with whether you
have someone or not. Like, I think
you also have to. Because I've always
felt like this, though. I feel like
whether you have someone or not, I
always say, I'm still Danny regardless of
who else I have with me. Like,
that doesn't take away none of my

(32:28):
sauce, my shine, nothing like that. Right.
And. And I think that women, a
lot of women struggle with self esteem
so much. And one thing I love
to even put on my friends, like,
it's so nice. One of my, like,
newer friends said, you know what? I
thank you so much because I attribute
my increased confidence to you. Right. And

(32:54):
I was just like, I was just
like, oh, my gosh, I love that.
Right. Because I feel like as women,
if we are more confident, I think
we can make better decisions and not
make.

Yes, absolutely.

Right. Absolutely have that confidence. So, yeah,
I'm big on. Big enough.

Listen. Well, people ask me, what do
I sell? I sell confidence. Okay.

Really? Wow. We have a lot in
common, Mickey. Yeah, for sure.

Okay, so what has been the most
powerful lesson that you've learned about yourself
during your healing journey? And I guess
what, what would you share with those
that are listening so they don't do
the same?

I would say really don't focus so
much on like, societal expectations and rushing
yourself to get to a certain point.
Because I felt like with me, I
was always like. Because my life, I
think in those early years had been
so smooth apart from my little bad
breed era. But, like, it was really
smooth. Like, I went to college, I

(34:01):
went to university, I got my job,
I got married. You know, I feel
like you don't have to do everything
perfect in order to have a beautiful
life. Right. And you also don't have
to feel like you have to follow
all of society's expectations. You should really
do what feels right to you and

(34:23):
not rush things too soon or like
too much. That would be my takeaway
for the younger people in my audience
and also I would say for the
older people too. You know, I'm probably
included in that group too. But anyway,
so I would say, like, you don't

(34:44):
have to hold so tightly to that
past that you've had, right? You can
choose to rewrite your story. You still
many years moving forward, and you can
choose to show up differently, right? To
believe in Yourself more to have increased
confidence. You can truly rewrite your story

(35:06):
moving forward and not let that like
hold you back or bring you down.

Absolutely obvious. I, I feel like a
lot of the women in my age
group, and I'm like my mid-40s, they
are high achievers. They, you know, check
all the boxes in all the areas
of their life and one box that
they struggle in or that remains empty
is their relationships.

Yeah, Yeah, I think it's. Yeah, I
know it's a big thing and I
think there's so. There's not one answer
for that. I think with high achieving
women, it can be many things. For
some people, they, they really are putting
out that consistent effort. Right. Perhaps it's
just not their, like it's just not
their time. Or perhaps they need to

(35:55):
do some work on themselves too. Right.
And I think for some they've just
given up. If I'm being honest. I
know people that are just like, like,
yeah. Just opposite extreme. Like, I don't
like men, I want to talk to
nobody. I'm good by myself. I have
my cat. Right. So I think that.
Or some people are just so wrapped
in their work, you know, like in

(36:16):
terms of just going up that perfect
ladder. Right. And I'm a firm believer
that whatever you do want, this is
just my own personal belief that whatever
you do want, you do have to
put some action behind. Absolutely. It is
like a relationship, like for those who
think you can just sit in your
yard and like, men will find you,
like, okay, maybe, but I think you

(36:36):
really want that, you got to put
some energy behind that too. So I'm
very intentional about what I want and
what I want to put my energy
in at different times. Because I find
that whatever I do focus on and
put my energy in and put out
those positive affirmations, I do find that
eventually that does come into being. Right?

Absolutely. The results are in the action.
Like, I feel like this is a
common theme today actually, because all the
coaching clients I had today, this was
kind of like similar along the themes
of what you just said, where it's
like I asked them, like, what is
important to you in your life right
now? What are your priorities? Because if

(37:20):
you say it's your relationship or your
children, all these things, if you look
at your daily life, if you look
at your actions every day, if you
look at your routines and your habits,
is that a reflection of that? Can
you say that your kids are important
to you, but you're at your job
16 hours a day, you don't make
Any intentional time to spend time and,
you know, value that relationship with, with

(37:42):
your children. If you say your, your
relationship with your partner is important to
you, but you never have date nights
or any of those things like you,
you, you're. They get the tired version
of you at the end of the
day when you're moody. Like, do your
actions and your daily habits and routines
reflect what you say.

Is important to you 100%. Oh my
goodness. Yeah. And now you're really bringing
me back to like my couples clients
because I would say I have, like
almost half of my clients are couples
now too. And I love couples because,
yeah, I push that. I, I say,
you know, if you guys are going
to say you're focusing on your relationship,
you need to be making those check
in times, making those date nights because

(38:18):
as you said, like, if you don't
put into those actionable things, then it's
just talk, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, tell you. Oh, I love you,
but okay, but where's, where's the action
behind.

Yeah, exactly. Love is an action word.
Okay, exactly. Like I, I've had my,
like I said, fair share of unhealthy
relationships in the past. And my fiance,
we went to high school together. So
I've known him since we were 15.
We've always been friends. We got married
and had children with other people and

(38:51):
we went out for drinks one time
and we were both opening up that
we were going through a divorce. And
you know, we've been there for each
other through all the big life, like,
moments. And ever since we started dating
just over three years ago, every single
week he plans a date night every

(39:13):
single week. And when I tell people,
guys are like, every week, like every
it. So it's usually every Wednesday, but
I started doing a group coaching session
on Wednesday nights. So we've moved the
date, but every single week without fail.

I love that because you know what?
The consistency is the consistency for me.
Right. I always say don't introduce me
to an energy you can't maintain because
that part, I love the consistency. Oh,
girl. But I love that for you.

Thank you. Thank you. Definite change from,
you know, what I was used to.
But I rewrote my story. I've been
working on my healing. You know, it's
a journey. But yes, I, I would
love to know how your healing journey
has shaped how you see yourself and
not just as a therapist, but as
a person.

Okay, so how am I feeling? Shape
my, my way.

The way that you see yourself.

Okay. Wow. Okay. I think now I
see myself as, as I said, I'm
not Danny, who is a wife to
so and so. I'm not Danny who's
with so and so or who has
even a baby or whatever. I am
like, I am Danny, regardless of the

(40:39):
changes that go on around me. Right.
I am not really looking so much
to so much external sources of, like,
fulfillment or happiness. Like, obviously, like, I
want those too. But, like, what. Like,
what I mean is that I'm not,
like, so closely attached to that. And
no matter what happens, I know that
I still remain. And the essence of
myself doesn't change. Right. How I feel

(41:02):
about myself. And I feel like even
the people, like, like talking about that
resilience. Right. Even the people around you
can see that when, like. Yes. If
things happen that are, you know, that
are sad, like, I think, let's be
real, like, for me, when I realized,
okay, you know, now my daughter's gonna
be, you know, not with her whole

(41:23):
family unit together. That part. Right. But
I can still, you know, maintain that.
Okay. But you know what? You know,
we're still gonna be like, fine. She
still has her father in her life.
You know, as I said, I'm still,
you know, Danny, regardless. You know what
I mean? And I think what I

(41:43):
would say to the women is if
you can just start to have that,
like, basically, that grounding, that centeredness. Right.
And whatever brings that to you, do
that. I had a friend who also
was going through a breakup, and she.
Almost every month for. Almost like. No,
not every month. Maybe like every three
months for about, like a year. She

(42:04):
would always go back to the Caribbean
because she loved just going into saltwater,
grounding in the sand, having believe there's
something healing about them rivers and the
water over there. Because. Because. And like,
I think that that just brought her
back. Right. And made her, like, just
be more comfortable with her herself. Right.
Focusing on the relationship with herself and

(42:27):
just her own purpose in life. Right.
And that's not to say you can't
also, you know, be also focused on,
you know, starting to, you know, starting
to take the steps to potentially have
a new relationship and things like that.
But you need to have that, like
that. That base, that grounding of self.

Yeah.

You know, or to do that in
a. In the right way. Because if.
If you're just kind of like, Biggie,
Biggie, like, you're gonna attract the right
thing, they're going for sure. Right. I'm
actually excited for my next man because
I feel like, you know, fingers crossed.

(43:08):
I'm hoping he's going to be Good.
Right.

Listen, we. We are like magnets, right?
We attract what's in harmony with. With
us. We can't attract what's not in
alignment with. With who we are. So.

So I'm totally about making women just,
like, their best version. And I noticed
that, like, I've just been attracting, even,
like, since I've been an entrepreneur, I've
been trapping other female entrepreneurs as friends.
I have so many new friends, entrepreneurs,
almost, I look at now, I'm like,
oh, how are all my friends entrepreneurs,
like, all of a sudden? Right. And,
like, don't get me wrong, I still,
like, have my, you know, day ones,
but, like, I also have this whole

(43:43):
new group of entrepreneurial females right around
me. And it's just crazy. As you
said, you really do attract what you
are, because I feel like I didn't
even deliberately do that, but it's just
like, oh, like, you know.

Yeah. But especially based on, you know,
what is important to you, what you're
prioritizing, what you're attracting based on, you
know, the. The circles in the rooms
that you're going into, you just naturally
start to attract them.

Yeah. So I feel like you just
have to really, as I said, like,
focus on yourself, pursuing your purpose, having
that grounding in yourself, and then you'll
attract the right person for you. And
then my. The thing I would urge
people to do, too, is be your
authentic self. You know, don't try to
be what you think they want you
to be. You know, who is going

(44:32):
to accept you just as you are,
you know? Absolutely.

God cannot bless who we pretend to
be.

Right. Right. Like, some guys say, oh,
you know, I want a fresh meal
every night. I'm like, do that like,
three times a week. But every night
we're pushing it, honey. I have the
business.

Right.

And I'm trying to be rich enough
where we can have someone come in
and cook our food. Or like. Or
like. Because honestly, like, that is like,
I want you to actually know who.
Who I am. Right.

Yeah.

I'm hoping that also that will attract
someone who's the same so that we
can also see Ari align.

Right?

Yes. Do we have a similar vision
for our future, you know, or are
those things that can be, like, you
know, mesh? Like, do they fit together?

Yes. Yeah, I guess. Okay, so, you
know, you talked about working with, you
know, you work with couples, you work
with other people who are working through
diversities. You work with people who are
experiencing trauma. How do you help your
clients build resilience and move forward?

Okay, well, in terms of building resilience.
Oh, my goodness. I could talk about
this forever. But I'll just say some
quick things, really quick. In that whole
theme of, like, rewriting your story. Right.
I think sometimes you have to change
the negative. The negative, like, thought patterns
that are constantly in rotation in your
mind. Right. Kind of replacing them with

(46:02):
positive ones or even just more realistic
ones. If positive ones seem, like, too
far of a stretch for you being
more realistic. Right. Like, is it really
that almond or c. Or is it
really that, you know, the. That encountered,
you know, thus far? Right. Like, and.
And I think that that's one thing

(46:23):
that really helps. I. I'm a big
advocate also of those positive affirmations. Right.
Even, like, I've given clients tasks of
writing a letter to their self, to
their former self, things like that. I'm
just, like, naming off a few quick
things. But those are some. Some tips
that I've given my clients to kind

(46:45):
of help them in their process of,
you know, reinventing themselves, rewriting their story,
and really getting past those. As I
said, those, like, negate, like, those reoccurring
negative thoughts that are kind of blocking
them from moving forward.

Mm. And speaking of negative thoughts, like,
let's. So let's speak to, like, the
people who are not presently in therapy,
because we know that for some people,
there's still a stigma that creates a
barrier for them to seek help. How
do you encourage people to take that
first step towards therapy?

Oh, okay. Well, in terms of how
I would encourage them, honestly, I think
just, okay, how I see it is,
is just try it. Like, the first
step can be something as easy as.
Like, maybe you could ask a friend
that, you know something that you know
that is in therapy to recommend a
therapist to you. Maybe you can go
on Psychology Today. There's plenty of black

(47:42):
specific databases that you can go on
if you would like a black therapist.
But, you know, if you just. In
general, you could. I think Psychology Today
is a great resource as well. Right.
And then I would say just go
in with an open mind and don't
hold back in therapy. It's not the
place to go in and filter the
conversation or not be authentically yourself, because
I think as therapists, we've heard everything

(48:04):
already anyway. Nothing you say is gonna
really stick us at this point. Like,
sometimes people are like, I don't want
to say this, but I'm thinking it's
something gonna be something, like, really crazy.
And I'm like, that's it. As your
authentic self, don't be afraid. Afraid to
Actually, you know, share everything because it's
actually one of the safest places to

(48:25):
share information because, you know, we have
all those confidentiality, no regulations around us,
and I ain't trying to lose my
license or my job, so I. Keeping
my mouth sealed. Right. So best places
for you to go in and actually
just be open and be honest. Just
so I would. I would recommend that
people go in there with the willingness

(48:47):
to actually give it a fair shot
and to be open and honest with
your therapist.

And as someone who has consistently, like,
been going to therapy, I would also
recommend, like. Like what you said, like,
being open and honest, but you get
out of it what you put into
it. Right. If. If you're holding back
and you're not being fully truthful, if
you're trying to filter your behavior only,

(49:12):
or if you're trying to spin a
certain narrative, like, you only get out
of it what you put into it.
So.

Yeah, no, that's true. Because if you
think about it, when you're doing individual
therapy, especially if, you know, maybe this
person is coming to therapy about their
relational issues, you're only getting half the
story, to be honest. Right.

Y. Y.

So if that person's not being honest
or is giving you a fake version
of what's happening, how can you can
really help them?

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so little
quick personal story, like when I. I
think it was. I was going for
about a year, every week for a
year. And then because of what I
was sharing about my relationship, she's like,
oh, you know, I'd love to meet
him. How about you guys try a
couple session? So we did a couple

(50:00):
of couple sessions, and she was like,
you two don't have any issues, like,
between each other? Any issue that is
caused in the relationship is based on
your families and your outside people.

Wow.

So we don't have to go as
a couple anymore to therapy because we're.
We don't have a problem. Him and
I don't have a problem. It's us
learning boundaries with our family.

Yep. And that's another big thing in
couples therapy as well. Yeah. It's like
managing those outside relationships and those outside
voices. Right. And learning which ones. Which
ones are helpful to your relationship and
which ones are probably kind of harmful.
Right. And knowing what to share and
probably when not to share. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm. I'm a big believer,
and I don't. I don't ask for
advice from people that I wouldn't want
to switch places with. So if I
see that you don't have a healthy
relationship. Don't be giving me relationship advice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I get you.
I've even had some clients say to
me like, you know, oh, are you
in a relationship? Or are you or
have you been in a long term
relationship? And I understand what they're saying
because they kind of want to know
that even if I think personally, even
if you're not in one currently, not
to say you don't have valuable advice
because I do think that sometimes just

(51:23):
through certain experiences, you can have sound
advice. Yes. And some people that are
in relationships.

We know.

Okay. Basically, you know what I'm saying?
And it's good relationship. So I think
it's far more important to be a
person that. And I think your relationships
are not only just your romantic relationships,
are your relationships in general. How is
your relationship with your family? How is

(51:55):
your relationship with so many different areas
in your life? Right.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so
much, Danny, for sharing your wisdom, your
story with us. Before we go to
the rapid fire, I'd love if you
could tell people where they can stay
connected with you, where they can learn
more from you and about you.

Okay, perfect. Well, I am on IG
and TikTok at ROP, so ROP Mental
Health. Right. And also my website is
www.ropmentalhealth.com and I'm also on LinkedIn, so
basically all of the major, you know,
social networks there. I'm also on YouTube

(52:37):
if you want to check it out.
Some of my old videos prior to
being a therapist, some while I was
in my early days at Danny Kang.
So D A M Y C H
A M G. Perfect.

So I will have all of those
details in the. I'll have all your
links in the detail below the episode
so they don't have to search too
far and they can just connect with
you direct.

Can actually say one more thing. Yeah,
okay. On the video. Okay. Also, in
the new year, I'm actually going to
be coming out with a course and
it's a roadmap to rewrite your story
because I do feel like a lot
of the women I'm working with, that's
what we're doing. And I'm like, this
would be great to be a course
on a, like, on a, you know,

(53:22):
larger level and have a community that
can kind of support each other through
the process. So watch out for that.

Absolutely. Love it. Love it. I, I
like to do a rapid fire, but
I don't like to put anybody into
a box because I don't like to
be put into boxes so you can
answer one word or one sentence. But
if you feel the need to unpack,
you're more than welcome to do so.

Cool. Okay.

Name a book that has changed or
greatly impacted your life.

Ooh, I liked. Oh, my goodness. Hold
on. It's a book by 50 set,
but I can't wait. Is it Get
Richard by Caring? No, you've got a
couple. Because. Which one is it, though?
But it's one that I love. I
think it's about Get Rich. I think
it's Get Rich or Die Trying. I
have it over here. And, of course,

(54:16):
right now. Okay, so it's the book
by 50 Cent. I believe it's called
Get Rich or Die Trying, but I
will. You could put it down below
in case I got it wrong, and
then another book. It's very cliche. I
know a lot of people have read
it already, but I really enjoyed the
Secret as well.

So those are.

I really like.

I definitely read both of those. My.
My mentor, Bob Proctor, was one of
the thought leaders featured in the documentary.
The Secret Changed my life.

Yes. Good. And I like Bob Proctor,
too.

Okay, if. Let's see. If you could
have a billboard anywhere, what would it
say and why?

What would it say? I. I think
it would have something to do with,
you know, just being yourself unapologetically, you
know, and being selfish, but the right
type of selfish, you know, but the
right. Something along those lines, you know,
And. Yeah, maybe it'd be something like

(55:22):
that.

Okay, um, what have you become better
at saying no to in the last
five years? And that could be distractions,
invitations, family.

I think it's just things that I
don't want to do. If I don't
want to hang around certain people, if
I don't want to go to a
certain event, if my spirit's saying, no,
Manago, we're gonna follow. You know how
I feel about it. You know?

Yeah.

And not in a lazy way, but
in a way, like, kind of. I
think we all have our intuition, too,
right? Like, if we kind of know
something, we're not really don't feel like
it will be beneficial to us, to
our spirit. Like, then don't do it.

Yep.

That. I don't even work now. I
don't want to do anything moving forward
that is not in alignment with what
I believe. Like. Yeah. And. Yeah. And
that expands to so many different things.
A friend just wanted me to do
an eyelash course when I was just
like. But do I really want to
perk? Like, I. Like, even Though that's
such a small thing. It's just not

(56:24):
me. I don't even really wear eyelashes.
You know what I mean? Yeah. I
just want things in alignment with what
I really find to be valuable and
yeah, absolutely.

I. I believe if it's not a
hell yeah, it's a heck no. Okay.
I mean, this one might not be
a that rapid of a question, but
how has motherhood changed you?

Oh, girl, everyone already said it. I
think I became a soft yell after
I met my daughter. Well, I feel
like even more in tap with my
emotions because before, honestly, if someone was
to see me cry, they would think
the world's probably ending because it just

(57:08):
wasn't something that my younger years I
would do. But like I feel like
I'm so much more. Yeah. Like, like
because I'm so emotionally attached to her
too, you know, I feel like. And
also fun, fun fact. I wasn't really
like a kid person, to be honest,

(57:28):
so. But after I have my daughter
now. Oh my gosh, now I see
kids in the park, I'm like, you
know what I mean? Are you. I'm
sliding down the slide with her and
like another little friend, like I'm doing
the most. So I think it's really
just. Yeah, it's really, I think opened
me up like emotionally as well, which
I think was something that I also

(57:49):
needed, you know, because I. Yeah, I
think that was something that I needed.

Love it. Okay, last but not least,
what does your self care routine look
like?

Okay, well in terms of self care,
there's so many different things, but I
love me a salt Epsom salt bath
with some incense. Right. A bath is
something like. I think water is just
so renewing. Like I must. Yeah. I
think I am a water sign. Even
though I'm not big into those signs.
But like I'm a Scorpio and so

(58:21):
I love beaches, I love my baths.
But my self care routine, like in
the mornings look like I always, I,
you know, I obviously, you know, have
like to do this and things like
that. But I love to wake up
early before my daughter gets up, have
my morning coffee, do my positive affirmations,
you know, pray. That's kind of how

(58:42):
you know. In short, you know my,
my self care morning routine is. But
then when I'm feeling really stressed, like
people will know like I'm a bath
or I'm gone to like Jamaica.

For a week or something, you know.

That, you know, intro.

Those are some things I do love
it. Thank you so much, Danielle for
like I said, sharing your expertise and
your wisdom with us sharing your story.
I do not take anyone's time lightly.
I truly appreciate you co creating this
experience with the listeners with me. Just
thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.
I hope that you know it was
something that will resonate with the ladies.

Listening and absolutely, absolutely. Thank you again,
Danielle for sharing your story and your
expertise with us today. I truly, truly
appreciate you. And to all my healers
out there, thank you for tuning in.
Because of you, we rank globally in
the top 1.5% of most popular podcasts

(59:49):
out there and there are over 3
million. So if today's episode resonated with
you, please subscribe, rate the show and
leave us a review on Apple Podcast.
Now I wanna challenge you to think
of one person who would benefit from
today's conversation. Share this conversation with them.
Someone out there needs this testimony. Feel

(01:00:10):
free to screenshot this week's episode and
you can tag us opmentalhealth. Also you
can tag myself hereal mckinney Smith and
let's continue to keep this conversation going.
If you enjoyed today's conversation, don't forget
to pour into yourself. My new Shades
of youf Adult Coloring book is a

(01:00:32):
celebration of black and women of color,
of our beauty. And it's about self
care through coloring. So relax, reflect and
express yourself. Grab your crumbio and Apple
Amazon or@mckinneysmith.com. the Healthy Community is a
healing community and a healing community is
full of hope. So let's continue to

(01:00:54):
heal her.

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