January 10, 2024 • 32 mins
This week’s conversation with Nargis Hilal, Chief Compliance Officer & Counsel of Lazard Asset Management LLC, shows us the importance of transformational thinking. Embracing transformation is about being open to change and seeing it as an opportunity for growth and greater opportunities.
Transformation is the key to so many new ways of being organized, structural and functional in our personal and professional lives. She shows us how transformational thinking should be an integral part of who we are. That we should learn to live and breathe transformation so we can bring about change. Learning to pivot your perspective, respecting other views and being nimble is paramount to being transformational. This conversation will begin to give us the tools we need that can put us on our own path of transformation.
Nargis Hilal is Chief Compliance Officer & Counsel of Lazard Asset Management LLC. She is generally responsible for overseeing the firm’s compliance program, including the development and implementation of key policies and procedures. Nargis directly supervises the Core and Surveillance Compliance teams in New York. She also acts as Chief Compliance Officer for the Lazard Funds, Inc., Lazard's mutual fund family, and Lazard's affiliated limited purpose broker dealer. As Counsel, Nargis also helps handle legal and regulatory matters in the US relating to investment advisory and broker-dealer activities. She is also Chief Compliance Officer of Lazard's affiliated limited purpose broker dealer. She began working in the investment field in 2009. Prior to joining Lazard in 2017, Nargis was Chief Compliance Officer at KLS Diversified Asset Management. She has a J.D. from Villanova University and a B.A. from Pennsylvania State University. She is a member of the New York State Bar. Please join us again in the coming weeks as we continue Warriors At Work conversations to guide us in transforming and enriching ourselves and the organizations we lead and are a part of.
(3:20) What is it like to live and breathe transformation? How does Nargis feel about being tagged with the word “transformation”? We learn about her upbringing that brought her to this moment.
(6:47) How does Nargis define “transformational thinking”?
(7:59) Where does Nargis find struggles in following the transformational path?
(9:24) Does she have people around her, or is she aware of it herself, when she feels resistant to transformation?
(10:05) How did Nargis know that transformational thinking was a part of her leadership brand?
(11:50) How does Nargis get to a place when she sees the need to ignite transformation in others? How does she empower those that she works with?
(14:29) What are some of the barriers to showing organizations the importance of transformation.
(17:18) Can people learn this way of thinking? Is it innate, or can we learn the skills to be transformational?
(18:39) Nargis shares her experiences working with others as they embrace transformation.
(21:49) How is transformational thinking contagious? How does ego play a part?
(24:24) Who, in her life, does she feel influenced her to think in this way?
(27:00) How does Nargis stay on the path, what in her life keeps her in line with transformational thinking?
(29:23) What is she working on, as we start a new year?
Connect with Nargis Hilal
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nargis-hilal-055925109
Subscribe:
Warriors At Work Podcasts Website: https://jeaniecoomber.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/986666321719033/
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witter: https://twitter.com/jeanie_coomber
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-coomber-90973b4/
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Transformation is the key to so many new ways of being organized, structural and functional in our personal and professional lives. She shows us how transformational thinking should be an integral part of who we are. That we should learn to live and breathe transformation so we can bring about change. Learning to pivot your perspective, respecting other views and being nimble is paramount to being transformational. This conversation will begin to give us the tools we need that can put us on our own path of transformation.
Nargis Hilal is Chief Compliance Officer & Counsel of Lazard Asset Management LLC. She is generally responsible for overseeing the firm’s compliance program, including the development and implementation of key policies and procedures. Nargis directly supervises the Core and Surveillance Compliance teams in New York. She also acts as Chief Compliance Officer for the Lazard Funds, Inc., Lazard's mutual fund family, and Lazard's affiliated limited purpose broker dealer. As Counsel, Nargis also helps handle legal and regulatory matters in the US relating to investment advisory and broker-dealer activities. She is also Chief Compliance Officer of Lazard's affiliated limited purpose broker dealer. She began working in the investment field in 2009. Prior to joining Lazard in 2017, Nargis was Chief Compliance Officer at KLS Diversified Asset Management. She has a J.D. from Villanova University and a B.A. from Pennsylvania State University. She is a member of the New York State Bar. Please join us again in the coming weeks as we continue Warriors At Work conversations to guide us in transforming and enriching ourselves and the organizations we lead and are a part of.
(3:20) What is it like to live and breathe transformation? How does Nargis feel about being tagged with the word “transformation”? We learn about her upbringing that brought her to this moment.
(6:47) How does Nargis define “transformational thinking”?
(7:59) Where does Nargis find struggles in following the transformational path?
(9:24) Does she have people around her, or is she aware of it herself, when she feels resistant to transformation?
(10:05) How did Nargis know that transformational thinking was a part of her leadership brand?
(11:50) How does Nargis get to a place when she sees the need to ignite transformation in others? How does she empower those that she works with?
(14:29) What are some of the barriers to showing organizations the importance of transformation.
(17:18) Can people learn this way of thinking? Is it innate, or can we learn the skills to be transformational?
(18:39) Nargis shares her experiences working with others as they embrace transformation.
(21:49) How is transformational thinking contagious? How does ego play a part?
(24:24) Who, in her life, does she feel influenced her to think in this way?
(27:00) How does Nargis stay on the path, what in her life keeps her in line with transformational thinking?
(29:23) What is she working on, as we start a new year?
Connect with Nargis Hilal
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nargis-hilal-055925109
Subscribe:
Warriors At Work Podcasts Website: https://jeaniecoomber.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/986666321719033/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeanie_coomber/ T
witter: https://twitter.com/jeanie_coomber
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-coomber-90973b4/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMZ2HyNNyPoeC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Really just think it's about living andbreathing. I mean, it's not set
it and forget it mode. It'sabout having living and breathing thoughts around the
way you want to make a change, as simple as I want to inspire
the people that report into me,or I have a massive project and I
have to make this work. It'sabout being nimble enough to roll with the
(00:20):
punches and say, you know,what I did a year ago doesn't work
anymore, and I have to befor thinking enough to change it now.
Facts in circumstances change, and soshould we. So I think about transformational
thinking a little literally, but alsojust soft skill wise. Again, I
bring it back to you can bethe smartest person that went to like the
best schools, has the pedigree andthe credentials. But if you can't,
(00:43):
if you can't pivot from your perspective, if you can't listen to others speak,
if you can't incorporate the way theworld is changing around you, you
can't be transformational. Welcome to theWarriors at Work Show. This is Genie
Koomber, your guide and host.This is a show for men and women
in the workplace who want to movefrom the predictable to the potent. This
(01:06):
is your weekly dose of inspiration withan edge. I talk with CEOs and
shamans, sports marketing executives, andtherapists. All of us are like minded
thinkers and doers who tell stories,share wisdom, and challenge each other to
have the best life possible inside andoutside the office. Welcome to your Warrior
(01:30):
conversation. Hey warriors, it's Genie. It's time to talk about transformation.
Transformation, I think is the keyto so many new ways of being personally,
professionally, structurally, organizationally, functionally. And so I've been really reflecting
(01:52):
on who are those people that I'dlike to bring forward into conversation and how
can I provide an opportunity for themto impart wisdom to the incredible followers of
this conversation Warriors at work. Andsomeone came to mind just based upon her
reputation, her energy, her intelligence, her unflappability in terms of managing difficult,
(02:21):
high stake stress situations. But morethan anything, she has tremendous heart,
likability and incredible stories. Her personaljourney was something that I wanted to
bring forward. So I'm thrilled tobring to you a conversation with Nargis Halal,
who is the director and chief ComplianceOfficer and counsel Atlizard Asset Management.
(02:43):
So you're going to hear a littlebit about her story why transformation is so
key to her leadership approach, butnot just in work, it's who she
is as a human being. AndI was delighted to sit down with her
and have this conversation. I hopeyou find it inspiring and invigorating to what
(03:06):
your leadership brand is and or couldbe more of. Enjoy Nargus Hellal is
in the warriors at Workhouse, andI can't wait to get into this conversation
about transformation with someone who's living andbreathing it every day. You know,
It's so interesting when I think aboutyou and your journey, like do you
(03:30):
have moments where you're like, Ican't believe I'm about to have an interview
on a platform talking about transformation.When you think about the arc, your
whole trajectory, Like what comes upfor you when I say okay, yes,
you're you're tagged with the word transformation. Yeah, it like gives me
a lump in my throat because thisis what I've always wanted. I never
(03:53):
thought sort of growing up, Iwould have the opportunity to be sitting here
in my office in thirty Rock asa chief compliance officer talking to somebody about
why I think the way I think, why I do things the way I
do, how I inspire my team, and I feel really honored. But
I take all of that back tosort of like the way I grew up.
(04:15):
I grew up, you know,very tough parents, very high expectations.
I wanted to move to New Yorkand make them proud. But I
grew up in a small town thatwas very much salt of the earth,
you know, very low income,very hard working, blue collar. All
I wanted to do was sort ofcapture what I could from the from the
(04:39):
sort of like I said, saltsof the Earth, very natural kind people
in that town, but deliver onbeing what I know. My parents sort
of expected of me as like abigger, batter, stronger attorney that could
live on her own and make themproud. They grew up, you know,
(05:00):
outside of the United States and Pakistan, and this is all they've ever
wanted. So I have this likeperfect blend of growing up in a small
town where you sort of care abouthumanity, and want to get back to
your community and everybody sort of knowswho you are because everybody knows everybody,
and wanting to also leave that townand make your parents proud and a part
(05:21):
of where I am in corporate Americaand the way I bring sort of my
own unique background to the role isall due to my growing up in that
way. Describe your parents for me, They're traditional sort of Pakistani parents that
(05:43):
are extraordinarily strict, expect a lot. I put a lot of pressure on
myself still with my parents in theback of my head, sort of saying,
you know, nose to the grindstone. No ego comes first. You
know, superstars shine if they workreally hard, respect people around you.
That's huge. And I think alot of a lot of what they've taught
(06:10):
me has, in good and badways, sort of carried me forward into
the role that I have now.Good because I think people find I have
a good EQIQ balance. Bad becauseI'm constantly striving to do more. Nothing
is good enough. I'm always lookingfor the next thing, and I extend
(06:32):
myself a lot because I want todo better and I want to make people
proud. You're such a bar raizer. I am boom boom, always thinking
like what's matter? What else couldwe be doing? Which leads me to
my next question, which is youknow you described for me when I say
transformational thinking, like, how doyou define it? I really just think
(06:56):
it's about living and breathing. Imean, it's not set it and forget.
It's about having live, living andbreathing thoughts around the way you want
to make a change, as simpleas I want to inspire the people that
report into me, or I havea massive project and I have to make
this work. It's about pivoting atthe right times. It's about respecting other
views. It's about bringing your ownperspective perspective to the situation, but listening
(07:20):
to others. It's about being nimbleenough to roll with the punches and say,
you know, what I did ayear ago doesn't work anymore, and
I have to be for thinking enoughto change it now. Facts and circumstances
change, and so should we.So I think about transformational thinking a little
literally, but also just soft skillwise. Again, I bring it back
(07:43):
to you can be the smartest personthat went to like the best schools,
has the pedigree and the credentials,but if you can't. If you can't
pivot from your perspective, if youcan't listen to others speak, if you
can't incorporate the way the world ischanging around you, you can't be transformational.
Where do you struggle in that?Particularly in this in this let's just
call it economic climate, the lastcouple of years. Where's where's that one
(08:07):
place where you're like, oh,that's that's something I'm working on. Yeah,
And it, honestly, it's lessof the economic climate, and I
think it's more about people who havebeen working in the organization that I work
with for a very long time havetrouble with transformational thinking. They are used
to a certain cohort of individuals withthem that buy into the same thoughts all
(08:28):
the time, and they don't wantto change. Change is uncomfortable. Even
right now, if I want tobring it back to economics, we're seeing
the lowest trading levels we've ever seenbecause people are scared to make a change.
They're they're too nervous with the volatilitythe macro geopolitical sort of sort of
cloud that's over the world right now, everybody sort of in standstill mode.
(08:54):
And some may argue right now isthe time to move, and it's hard
to get an old guard that isvery entrenched in sort of the organization to
think transformationally, and soon after acouple years here, I may also become
one of those people that cannot seethe perspective on the outside. So my
goal is to continuously push myself tosay, are you doing what you were
(09:16):
doing like a year ago or twoyears ago, or are you forcing yourself
to think about things a little differentlyright right? And does somebody is somebody
a witness to that in calling thatout for you, or is that just
something that you know about yourself,You know where you are at all times.
I know I have to know knowabout it about myself, and I
(09:37):
have to push myself to do itbecause unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, there's
pros and cons do it. Ourorganization has a lot of a lot of
people who have been here for twentyyears plus. It's a wonderful thing about
where I work. But it isa difficult thing to change minds in that
way, and they're not going topoint it out for you that you should
be moving sort of the needle ina way. You have to see that
(10:00):
the needle hasn't been moved for areally long time, and it's time to
pivot. Yeah, how did youknow that this idea of being a transformational
thinker was a part of your leadershipbrand? Did you have a moment or
an experience where someone said it toyou and you're like, yeah, I
got that or were you surprised?I am constantly surprised by positive feedback.
(10:24):
It's like a con. It's acon too, the way I grew up.
Okay, I am, And I'llbring it back to that place for
a minute, just to say theincredibly humble part of who I am makes
it very hard for me to acceptthat I have a positive quality. I'm
(10:45):
honored that people think I'm a transformationalthinker. I'm honored that my team loves
to work with me. I've honoredthat senior level management gives me a lot
of sort of feedback on how wellI pivot, move transform the way we
think about as a CCO and regulatoryattorney, think about regulation, think about
policy change, think about risk.But I am not good at sort of
(11:11):
knowing that I've just made a reallypositive impact. That's sort of probably what
drives me to continue to keep doingit in hopes that one day it'll click
that I did it, if thatmakes any sense. Yeah, So it's
almost like, how do you acknowledgethose places where you've had progress an accomplishment,
that's something that you're working on alot, Like, Wow, I
did that, that was good.Yeah, that's very hard for me.
(11:35):
That's very very hard for me,and it's a part of what drives me.
But I have trouble accepting that I'vedone well. Okay, that's so.
That is so cool. That isso cool that you're sharing that.
The other thing that I was thinkingabout is, now, how do you
get yourself into a place so let'slike bring it into very tactical situational experience
(12:00):
right now, how do you getyourself in a place where you know you
need to ignite this in others Andyou can see that maybe that this is
not a part of their ethos,but you know you need to ignite it.
You've got to somehow empower them toadopt this. Walk us through how
you do that. For the peoplethat report into me and who I manage,
(12:22):
I am very purposeful in creating asafe space for them to shadow me.
I do believe that some of thisis a little contagious, meaning if
they see me speak up in ameeting, if they see me sort of
shift away from what the norm is, watching the way that I do it
in the most sort of respectful andsoft manner I can is contagious. And
(12:48):
I'm already starting actually to see thedifference in people thinking outside the box,
trying to raise a point that mightnot have been raised and is a little
more esoteric and uncomfortable. That hasstarted working with the people that report into
me. It is very hard todo that with sort of senior level management
(13:09):
that has been here for a verylong time. I think the way that
they've started noticing that I am transformationalis that I don't have an issue with
pushing the boundaries of what we're goingto do. I might not think I'm
right, but I'm okay saying it. So they's a piece of me that
(13:30):
will always say, you're probably notright, but you should give it a
whirl. There's something that keeps pushingme to try. But I do have
sort of this in the same mannerin which I sort of can't take positive
feedback. I sort of have thisconstant nervosa around are you getting it right?
Did you just say something that willflop. What if we push the
(13:52):
firm? What if we push thefirm in a direction it shouldn't be going.
Is there some reason why people aren'tchanged and being transformational because they have
your right and I am wrong?Like that happens a lot. But I
don't ever quell sort of my feelingsand my speech when I'm speaking to senior
management because clearly something's working somewhere.Yeah, I love that. What about
(14:18):
the barriers to transformation? Because whenI think about the genesis of even bringing
a conversation like this to life,is I see lots and lots of organizations
that obviously are very driven by profitabilityand revenues, which is not wrong.
However, the organization needs to reallyevolve, grow, expand to meet those
(14:45):
financial goals and expectations, and theorganization itself doesn't quite know how to do
that. And there's lots and lotsof barriers. I see people, I
see situations, I see cultural Butfrom your standpoint, what do you think
some of the barriers are? Thenumber one barrier is people not having external
perspective the people, and I honestlybelieve and it's perspective across diversity of thought.
(15:11):
It's perspective around diversity of risk,it's perspective around diversity of what options
or even on the table. Imean, if you haven't experienced anything other
than the organization you're working at,you get into like tunnel vision. And
again I go back to the factthat at the organization I'm at, the
(15:31):
average vintage here is like fifteen totwenty five years. So if you're not
forcing yourself to sort of hire newpeople, higher diverse people, hire people
with a variety of experiences behind them, you never get that sort of percolation
of idea generation and thinking outside thebox and moving things forward, moving things
(15:54):
forward that may feel uncomfortable because you'venever experienced it. So me as a
more sort of new joiner, I'llsay, but I'm more than five years
here. Under six makes it difficultbecause I am still the fresh perspective and
I have been. I have stillbeen here for close to six years.
(16:14):
So if you don't continuously force yourselfto find that perspective somehow, we'll just
be in like drinking the kool aidmode. Yeah, And sometimes it's easier
to just do it the way we'vealways done it, you know, and
especially on days where you're feeling tiredor you're you know, you feel like
you're constantly pushing a rock up ahill, and it's just like, I'm
not into that right now. It'sjust so much easier to carry on this
(16:37):
way it is. It's way easier. And when I find myself and set
it and forget it mode, likewhen I'm pushing like the easy button,
I stop myself. It's very rare, to be honest. I mean,
I don't have that in me todo it. But if I find myself
sort of agreeing with the norm,I think, am I doing this because
it's the right thing to do?Or am I doing this because I cannot
I cannot take the time to thinkof something a little more thoughtfully or or
(17:02):
from a diverse perspective. Or haveI pinged all the people I really should
in order to get this done properlyfor our business. That's a constant question
in my head. M There's likea thoroughness to what you just have to
do. You have to do.You think someone can learn this way of
being? I think a part ofit is in you. I think there's
(17:26):
people that have a really good blendof wanting to move the needle and make
change in a way that pushes theboundaries of what the norm is. I
think that that is that's something that'sin you. Some of it comes from
just sheer like hard work, likeyou just have the ethics to get it
(17:48):
done. Some of it is atrue EQIQ blend that forces their IQ to
sort of be a little bit moreemotional and bringing in like that you know,
better, faster, stronger thoughts around. You know, it's not just
about the textbook. It's about like, how do you work with people,
how do you bring them in fornew ideas. There's a resistance there if
(18:11):
you're heavy sort of I think youknow IQ academic technical skills. But I
but I think you can push peoplethrough example to think outside the box.
I don't think it comes naturally foreveryone. And I think you can't teach
it. You can't teach like thatcore sort of sort of ethic or moral
(18:36):
that you have in you. Isthere a story that comes to mind where
that really illuminates your point. Maybeit was an example that you put out
there that all of a sudden it'scaught on and they're like, oh,
yeah, that works for me.Yeah. I mean, I mean a
part of it is the way thatI came in. I came in from
a hedge fund. It was verydifficult. I mean, you have you
(18:56):
have to be open minded. Youhave to sort of let risk take over
sometimes and say I'm allowing this eventhough it makes me feel a little uncomfortable.
I sit in a role that is, you know, rooted in regulate
regulation, and there's very precise policyand procedure. There's there's there's very like
legal legally right and wrong answers toeverything, but there's buoys of reasonability you
(19:22):
can kind of like swim between.And that gray area is where a lot
of attorneys don't like to play.They sort of they kind of want to
make it a little easier for themselvesand create black and white rules. You
can't do that at a hedge fund. And I brought that perspective to Lazard,
and it through people like for aloop. I mean it just through
them for a loop. They werelike, wait, there's ways to there's
(19:45):
ways to come from a place ofyes, but we're going to do it
in this way that has bound thereason around it and it and it sort
of created this style at Lazard wherenow people are much more forthcoming to legal
on compliance because they're like, they'llcome from a place of yes, but
there's a couple of things we're goingto add to make sure that we're within
(20:06):
Like the reason and because so manypeople have been at this firm for so
long and the set it and forgetit mode is kicked in, there was
a tendency to say no. Andyou never want your legal and compliance team
to be on the outskirts of thedecision making process. They should be partners
with the business so that when youdo say no, everybody knows you really
(20:29):
mean it and it's not like no, no, no, all right fine.
So that is like a skill thatis transformational thinking for an attorney,
but it's also transformational for the business. It makes people want to come to
you because you're willing to play ball, and that that is That's not one
example. It's sort of just agift I got from the hedge fund.
I wouldn't have been able to functionif I said no. They would have
(20:51):
gone right around me. And whatI love about that is very often in
organizations, your function would be consideredlike the sales prevention team. Yes,
because it's very narrow prevention unit.The BP Yeah, it's like a thing,
and I choose to listen to thebusiness, find commercial reasonable commercial commercially
(21:14):
reasonable answers that make the business growand keep but keep us safe. Like
that's that's how this should work.It should be a symbiotic relationship where we
kind of like mesh. And thenwhen I do say no, people say,
wow, Nargis said no, sheprobably couldn't find a reasonable solution to
this, and that no means no, that's right, and they won't forum
(21:36):
shop me and go someplace else.Yeah, that to me is like one
of the strongest tenants of your brand. It really has become one of the
strongest tenants of my brand for sure. The other thing that you talked about
is this idea that transformational thinking iscontagious when there is no ego involved.
(21:59):
Please say, I have found myselfin many situations in my role we're out
of We're out of just sort ofpersonal principles. The answer as we are
not doing it your way, andI believe that it comes from a place
of control and ego. It's simplyI've never done it this way. It's
(22:23):
making me uncomfortable. I have ascript for this and I am not going
off script, and I choose tocut. And if I had an ego,
my answer to like rolling in thatgray area and trying to find what
is the right thing within the boozeof like reasonability, I would say no,
that makes me feel uncomfortable, Andthe answer is no, the law
(22:45):
says this, and I would belike the no, no no. Because
I don't have an ego, I'mwilling to sit and listen and try to
like mesh to to like maybe diametricallyoppose things together and make it work.
But it's very hard to change thedecision of somebody who is not willing to
listen because they have an ego aboutthe principle they're trying to prove. I
(23:07):
also think about ego in the waythat that you know, no task is
too small. No, nothing,nothing my team does is something I shouldn't
sit there and do with them.If I need to, I will do
things with the CEO, and I'lldo things with the most junior associate at
the firm. It doesn't matter thatI'm a sea level. Everybody deserves time,
(23:30):
respect and the contagion that comes alongwith watching somebody pick up things really
really tiny off the floor, butalso like change the macro environment of the
firm, show something to people.It's like, I'm willing to play ball
in any scenario for anything, foranyone. And this isn't about having a
(23:52):
personal agenda or a personal principle I'mtrying to prove. This is about sharing
the work, doing better and comingup with like the right response. So
it's ego in sort of like twoways. It's like, you can't change
it's very hard to change people's mindif they have an ego about it.
On principle, they won't. Butit's also important to show people at the
firm you're willing, You're willing todo it all. There's no like bouginess
(24:17):
about like, you know, meand my job and what I'm willing to
pick up m What about people thathave really influenced you in your life to
think more expansively and align with thatway of being? Who comes to mind.
(24:38):
The first person who ever gave mea chance in this industry was my
first was my first boss, andhe was incredible at doing this. It
was like it was like Jedi mindtricks in every meeting that he would do
where he would be like I totallyhear you and I think you're on the
(25:00):
right path, but I have twothings that I think you should change,
and they'd be really big things.But he would say it in such a
way that it didn't feel so itdidn't feel like you were perverting somebody's original
idea that I have like kind ofglommed onto doing that. As in every
point of my career, it's like, great idea, Love it, even
if I'm like, that is nota great idea. Great idea, love
(25:22):
it. There's two things that wecan do to make this better, safer,
stronger, and will like future proofright, like this will stand the
set test of time. We're ina safe spot. And you just the
way you say it is so importantthat you don't feel like you're perverting what
they're saying. You're just offering liketwo lego pieces or three lego pieces that
click in really easily, that makethis all so much better. So it's
(25:47):
not saying I don't like your ideathat doesn't work for me. It's how
do we change your idea ever soslightly, which might actually be pretty material
to just make this right. That'sa gift that has taken me a very
long time to life earn. Buthe taught me that the other is just
like again, going back to theway I grew up, it's just like
sheer brute force hard work, likehard work shines, you know, getting
(26:10):
things done on time, Being respectfulof people's wishes and wants, moving the
business forward quickly, efficiently and withyou know, grace and and sort of
respect for everybody is so important tome that you know, I don't I
don't know that you learn that,but it's been bestowed upon me by my
(26:30):
parents, and I just it clicksfor me. I love the visual of
legossay. I do it all thetime. I'm like, I'm always like
there's just like this one like littletetris piece that would like make this fit
really well. And I do thatall the time, and they're usually very
material. But I'm not like ruiningthe structure. I'm just like adding on
(26:51):
like a chunk of like my ownthinking on top right. It makes it
kind of a little bit more ofmy own without perverting like the core structure.
So how do you stay fresh andcurrent and aligned to this way of
being? Are you like a voraciousreader? Are you a are you a
meditator? Like? What is itthat you're doing that's staying aligned to this
(27:15):
way of being and my role.Well, what you know one and two
is an attorney, you sort ofhave, you have continuing education, you
have to do it. I choosecontinuing education that roots very closely to my
to my career and finance. AndI very much learn by listening from the
people around me. I mean,I could not have learned this complicated business
(27:37):
without sort of again humbling myself andsaying, you don't know, and you
have to listen, and you haveto learn, and you will root yourself
into every piece of this business tillyou understand it. That's done me well.
And that's done me sort of notso well. I mean, it's
done me well. And that youknow, I've become sort of a subject
(27:59):
matter expert on a lot of differentthings. It's done me not so well.
That now that you're a subject matteron a lot of different things,
to get pulled into a lot ofthings, and they may or may not
be like very related to your corejob and function. But taking the time
to learn it all is a gift. I mean. And again, people
either want to put in that workor they don't. You know, I
(28:22):
think that's important. But I Also, you know, I'm not a voracious
reader. I don't read one thingoutside of work because I'm reading all day.
I make things easier for myself.I mean my web My web page
when I log in is the Securitiesand Exchange Commission's web page, so I
know every single thing they're doing everyday that's on their agenda, because their
agenda is my agenda. So Itry to do things that make things easier
(28:45):
for myself. But I'm not avoracious reader. I want things to be
easy. I sort of, youknow, easy, palatable like consumable data
points are like my way of understandinghow things work as opposed to reading,
and that sort of is weird asan attorney. But instead of reading pages
and pages of a role, Ilike to be efficient then quick, like
(29:07):
comple solutions fast like that's important tome. Last question, what are you
truying? So we talked a littlebit about this idea of this self acknowledgment
and appreciating your progress and different thingsthat you're doing. Tell us what you're
working on for yourself. Going intothe last bit of twenty twenty three and
(29:27):
into twenty twenty four, what isNargus trying to get better at grow bigger,
in review, whatever it is,what does it look like? Yeah,
I mean, look, I've beenapproached multiple times to expand my thinking
around CEO and regulatory attorney to businessacumen. My ability to understand every piece
(29:49):
of the business that I was justspeaking about has turned into people realizing that
maybe there's a core competency there we'renot tapping into. So I'm really thinking
about, together with senior people atthe firm, what can I do to
add value in ways that is notmy core competency. That scares me a
(30:11):
lot. I will fail at somethings doing that, and that journey is
scary. And I've been told We'regoing to give you some projects that you
will fail at, but we wantto see you stumble because you stumbling is
learning. I don't like doing that. I like to be good at what
I do and the past. Howare you going to ready yourself for that?
Like, what are you going todo? I'm scared? I'm not
(30:32):
ready. I mean I literally thethree projects that I have in front of
me right now that I am choosingfrom and must decide by next week.
Literally, this is all real.I am petrified to do any one of
them. They're not my core skillset. They're true business acumen projects.
They are things that I wouldn't touchwith a ten foot poll if you told
me to and I had a milliondollars at the end of it. I
(30:55):
mean, there are things that Icould royally screw up. But if I
don't take this chance, I'm notlearning, growing, pushing myself, and
I'm not making I'm not making seniormanagement proud. I mean, if this
is what they want to see outof me, you say yes, and
that is who I am like.I don't say no. I won't say
no to something that someone is likeoffering me. Well, Nargus, thank
(31:21):
you for offering all of your insights, your heart, your amazing stories,
your energy, Like you have suchconviction and passion around this, it's like
it's very palpable, and it's nosurprise to me that you're just an amazing
ride right now. So I can'twait to see and hear firsthand how this
(31:44):
is all going to play out foryou. I'm looking forward to it.
We'll see and I so appreciate youhaving me on. Thank you for joining
me for another episode of The Warriorsat Work Show. If you are interested
in learning more about what we doat the Warriors Work show and platform.
Be sure to go over to mywebsite, Geniecoomber, and subscribe to my
(32:06):
monthly Warrior Playbook newsletter. I shareeverything that I'm up to month by month,
as well as some lessons and insightsthat I've learned. I'm also interested
in hearing any feedback you have aboutthis conversation or future topics, so reach
out to me directly on JC atgeniecomber dot com or on LinkedIn. Be
(32:28):
sure to tell your friends and yourcolleagues about this Warriors at Work conversation.
Subscribe, review and rate us.It's the best way to get this message
out into the world. Be well,
Really just think it's about living andbreathing. I mean, it's not set
it and forget it mode. It'sabout having living and breathing thoughts around the
way you want to make a change, as simple as I want to inspire
the people that report into me,or I have a massive project and I
have to make this work. It'sabout being nimble enough to roll with the
(00:20):
punches and say, you know,what I did a year ago doesn't work
anymore, and I have to befor thinking enough to change it now.
Facts in circumstances change, and soshould we. So I think about transformational
thinking a little literally, but alsojust soft skill wise. Again, I
bring it back to you can bethe smartest person that went to like the
best schools, has the pedigree andthe credentials. But if you can't,
(00:43):
if you can't pivot from your perspective, if you can't listen to others speak,
if you can't incorporate the way theworld is changing around you, you
can't be transformational. Welcome to theWarriors at Work Show. This is Genie
Koomber, your guide and host.This is a show for men and women
in the workplace who want to movefrom the predictable to the potent. This
(01:06):
is your weekly dose of inspiration withan edge. I talk with CEOs and
shamans, sports marketing executives, andtherapists. All of us are like minded
thinkers and doers who tell stories,share wisdom, and challenge each other to
have the best life possible inside andoutside the office. Welcome to your Warrior
(01:30):
conversation. Hey warriors, it's Genie. It's time to talk about transformation.
Transformation, I think is the keyto so many new ways of being personally,
professionally, structurally, organizationally, functionally. And so I've been really reflecting
(01:52):
on who are those people that I'dlike to bring forward into conversation and how
can I provide an opportunity for themto impart wisdom to the incredible followers of
this conversation Warriors at work. Andsomeone came to mind just based upon her
reputation, her energy, her intelligence, her unflappability in terms of managing difficult,
(02:21):
high stake stress situations. But morethan anything, she has tremendous heart,
likability and incredible stories. Her personaljourney was something that I wanted to
bring forward. So I'm thrilled tobring to you a conversation with Nargis Halal,
who is the director and chief ComplianceOfficer and counsel Atlizard Asset Management.
(02:43):
So you're going to hear a littlebit about her story why transformation is so
key to her leadership approach, butnot just in work, it's who she
is as a human being. AndI was delighted to sit down with her
and have this conversation. I hopeyou find it inspiring and invigorating to what
(03:06):
your leadership brand is and or couldbe more of. Enjoy Nargus Hellal is
in the warriors at Workhouse, andI can't wait to get into this conversation
about transformation with someone who's living andbreathing it every day. You know,
It's so interesting when I think aboutyou and your journey, like do you
(03:30):
have moments where you're like, Ican't believe I'm about to have an interview
on a platform talking about transformation.When you think about the arc, your
whole trajectory, Like what comes upfor you when I say okay, yes,
you're you're tagged with the word transformation. Yeah, it like gives me
a lump in my throat because thisis what I've always wanted. I never
(03:53):
thought sort of growing up, Iwould have the opportunity to be sitting here
in my office in thirty Rock asa chief compliance officer talking to somebody about
why I think the way I think, why I do things the way I
do, how I inspire my team, and I feel really honored. But
I take all of that back tosort of like the way I grew up.
(04:15):
I grew up, you know,very tough parents, very high expectations.
I wanted to move to New Yorkand make them proud. But I
grew up in a small town thatwas very much salt of the earth,
you know, very low income,very hard working, blue collar. All
I wanted to do was sort ofcapture what I could from the from the
(04:39):
sort of like I said, saltsof the Earth, very natural kind people
in that town, but deliver onbeing what I know. My parents sort
of expected of me as like abigger, batter, stronger attorney that could
live on her own and make themproud. They grew up, you know,
(05:00):
outside of the United States and Pakistan, and this is all they've ever
wanted. So I have this likeperfect blend of growing up in a small
town where you sort of care abouthumanity, and want to get back to
your community and everybody sort of knowswho you are because everybody knows everybody,
and wanting to also leave that townand make your parents proud and a part
(05:21):
of where I am in corporate Americaand the way I bring sort of my
own unique background to the role isall due to my growing up in that
way. Describe your parents for me, They're traditional sort of Pakistani parents that
(05:43):
are extraordinarily strict, expect a lot. I put a lot of pressure on
myself still with my parents in theback of my head, sort of saying,
you know, nose to the grindstone. No ego comes first. You
know, superstars shine if they workreally hard, respect people around you.
That's huge. And I think alot of a lot of what they've taught
(06:10):
me has, in good and badways, sort of carried me forward into
the role that I have now.Good because I think people find I have
a good EQIQ balance. Bad becauseI'm constantly striving to do more. Nothing
is good enough. I'm always lookingfor the next thing, and I extend
(06:32):
myself a lot because I want todo better and I want to make people
proud. You're such a bar raizer. I am boom boom, always thinking
like what's matter? What else couldwe be doing? Which leads me to
my next question, which is youknow you described for me when I say
transformational thinking, like, how doyou define it? I really just think
(06:56):
it's about living and breathing. Imean, it's not set it and forget.
It's about having live, living andbreathing thoughts around the way you want
to make a change, as simpleas I want to inspire the people that
report into me, or I havea massive project and I have to make
this work. It's about pivoting atthe right times. It's about respecting other
views. It's about bringing your ownperspective perspective to the situation, but listening
(07:20):
to others. It's about being nimbleenough to roll with the punches and say,
you know, what I did ayear ago doesn't work anymore, and
I have to be for thinking enoughto change it now. Facts and circumstances
change, and so should we.So I think about transformational thinking a little
literally, but also just soft skillwise. Again, I bring it back
(07:43):
to you can be the smartest personthat went to like the best schools,
has the pedigree and the credentials,but if you can't. If you can't
pivot from your perspective, if youcan't listen to others speak, if you
can't incorporate the way the world ischanging around you, you can't be transformational.
Where do you struggle in that?Particularly in this in this let's just
call it economic climate, the lastcouple of years. Where's where's that one
(08:07):
place where you're like, oh,that's that's something I'm working on. Yeah,
And it, honestly, it's lessof the economic climate, and I
think it's more about people who havebeen working in the organization that I work
with for a very long time havetrouble with transformational thinking. They are used
to a certain cohort of individuals withthem that buy into the same thoughts all
(08:28):
the time, and they don't wantto change. Change is uncomfortable. Even
right now, if I want tobring it back to economics, we're seeing
the lowest trading levels we've ever seenbecause people are scared to make a change.
They're they're too nervous with the volatilitythe macro geopolitical sort of sort of
cloud that's over the world right now, everybody sort of in standstill mode.
(08:54):
And some may argue right now isthe time to move, and it's hard
to get an old guard that isvery entrenched in sort of the organization to
think transformationally, and soon after acouple years here, I may also become
one of those people that cannot seethe perspective on the outside. So my
goal is to continuously push myself tosay, are you doing what you were
(09:16):
doing like a year ago or twoyears ago, or are you forcing yourself
to think about things a little differentlyright right? And does somebody is somebody
a witness to that in calling thatout for you, or is that just
something that you know about yourself,You know where you are at all times.
I know I have to know knowabout it about myself, and I
(09:37):
have to push myself to do itbecause unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, there's
pros and cons do it. Ourorganization has a lot of a lot of
people who have been here for twentyyears plus. It's a wonderful thing about
where I work. But it isa difficult thing to change minds in that
way, and they're not going topoint it out for you that you should
be moving sort of the needle ina way. You have to see that
(10:00):
the needle hasn't been moved for areally long time, and it's time to
pivot. Yeah, how did youknow that this idea of being a transformational
thinker was a part of your leadershipbrand? Did you have a moment or
an experience where someone said it toyou and you're like, yeah, I
got that or were you surprised?I am constantly surprised by positive feedback.
(10:24):
It's like a con. It's acon too, the way I grew up.
Okay, I am, And I'llbring it back to that place for
a minute, just to say theincredibly humble part of who I am makes
it very hard for me to acceptthat I have a positive quality. I'm
(10:45):
honored that people think I'm a transformationalthinker. I'm honored that my team loves
to work with me. I've honoredthat senior level management gives me a lot
of sort of feedback on how wellI pivot, move transform the way we
think about as a CCO and regulatoryattorney, think about regulation, think about
policy change, think about risk.But I am not good at sort of
(11:11):
knowing that I've just made a reallypositive impact. That's sort of probably what
drives me to continue to keep doingit in hopes that one day it'll click
that I did it, if thatmakes any sense. Yeah, So it's
almost like, how do you acknowledgethose places where you've had progress an accomplishment,
that's something that you're working on alot, Like, Wow, I
did that, that was good.Yeah, that's very hard for me.
(11:35):
That's very very hard for me,and it's a part of what drives me.
But I have trouble accepting that I'vedone well. Okay, that's so.
That is so cool. That isso cool that you're sharing that.
The other thing that I was thinkingabout is, now, how do you
get yourself into a place so let'slike bring it into very tactical situational experience
(12:00):
right now, how do you getyourself in a place where you know you
need to ignite this in others Andyou can see that maybe that this is
not a part of their ethos,but you know you need to ignite it.
You've got to somehow empower them toadopt this. Walk us through how
you do that. For the peoplethat report into me and who I manage,
(12:22):
I am very purposeful in creating asafe space for them to shadow me.
I do believe that some of thisis a little contagious, meaning if
they see me speak up in ameeting, if they see me sort of
shift away from what the norm is, watching the way that I do it
in the most sort of respectful andsoft manner I can is contagious. And
(12:48):
I'm already starting actually to see thedifference in people thinking outside the box,
trying to raise a point that mightnot have been raised and is a little
more esoteric and uncomfortable. That hasstarted working with the people that report into
me. It is very hard todo that with sort of senior level management
(13:09):
that has been here for a verylong time. I think the way that
they've started noticing that I am transformationalis that I don't have an issue with
pushing the boundaries of what we're goingto do. I might not think I'm
right, but I'm okay saying it. So they's a piece of me that
(13:30):
will always say, you're probably notright, but you should give it a
whirl. There's something that keeps pushingme to try. But I do have
sort of this in the same mannerin which I sort of can't take positive
feedback. I sort of have thisconstant nervosa around are you getting it right?
Did you just say something that willflop. What if we push the
(13:52):
firm? What if we push thefirm in a direction it shouldn't be going.
Is there some reason why people aren'tchanged and being transformational because they have
your right and I am wrong?Like that happens a lot. But I
don't ever quell sort of my feelingsand my speech when I'm speaking to senior
management because clearly something's working somewhere.Yeah, I love that. What about
(14:18):
the barriers to transformation? Because whenI think about the genesis of even bringing
a conversation like this to life,is I see lots and lots of organizations
that obviously are very driven by profitabilityand revenues, which is not wrong.
However, the organization needs to reallyevolve, grow, expand to meet those
(14:45):
financial goals and expectations, and theorganization itself doesn't quite know how to do
that. And there's lots and lotsof barriers. I see people, I
see situations, I see cultural Butfrom your standpoint, what do you think
some of the barriers are? Thenumber one barrier is people not having external
perspective the people, and I honestlybelieve and it's perspective across diversity of thought.
(15:11):
It's perspective around diversity of risk,it's perspective around diversity of what options
or even on the table. Imean, if you haven't experienced anything other
than the organization you're working at,you get into like tunnel vision. And
again I go back to the factthat at the organization I'm at, the
(15:31):
average vintage here is like fifteen totwenty five years. So if you're not
forcing yourself to sort of hire newpeople, higher diverse people, hire people
with a variety of experiences behind them, you never get that sort of percolation
of idea generation and thinking outside thebox and moving things forward, moving things
(15:54):
forward that may feel uncomfortable because you'venever experienced it. So me as a
more sort of new joiner, I'llsay, but I'm more than five years
here. Under six makes it difficultbecause I am still the fresh perspective and
I have been. I have stillbeen here for close to six years.
(16:14):
So if you don't continuously force yourselfto find that perspective somehow, we'll just
be in like drinking the kool aidmode. Yeah, And sometimes it's easier
to just do it the way we'vealways done it, you know, and
especially on days where you're feeling tiredor you're you know, you feel like
you're constantly pushing a rock up ahill, and it's just like, I'm
not into that right now. It'sjust so much easier to carry on this
(16:37):
way it is. It's way easier. And when I find myself and set
it and forget it mode, likewhen I'm pushing like the easy button,
I stop myself. It's very rare, to be honest. I mean,
I don't have that in me todo it. But if I find myself
sort of agreeing with the norm,I think, am I doing this because
it's the right thing to do?Or am I doing this because I cannot
I cannot take the time to thinkof something a little more thoughtfully or or
(17:02):
from a diverse perspective. Or haveI pinged all the people I really should
in order to get this done properlyfor our business. That's a constant question
in my head. M There's likea thoroughness to what you just have to
do. You have to do.You think someone can learn this way of
being? I think a part ofit is in you. I think there's
(17:26):
people that have a really good blendof wanting to move the needle and make
change in a way that pushes theboundaries of what the norm is. I
think that that is that's something that'sin you. Some of it comes from
just sheer like hard work, likeyou just have the ethics to get it
(17:48):
done. Some of it is atrue EQIQ blend that forces their IQ to
sort of be a little bit moreemotional and bringing in like that you know,
better, faster, stronger thoughts around. You know, it's not just
about the textbook. It's about like, how do you work with people,
how do you bring them in fornew ideas. There's a resistance there if
(18:11):
you're heavy sort of I think youknow IQ academic technical skills. But I
but I think you can push peoplethrough example to think outside the box.
I don't think it comes naturally foreveryone. And I think you can't teach
it. You can't teach like thatcore sort of sort of ethic or moral
(18:36):
that you have in you. Isthere a story that comes to mind where
that really illuminates your point. Maybeit was an example that you put out
there that all of a sudden it'scaught on and they're like, oh,
yeah, that works for me.Yeah. I mean, I mean a
part of it is the way thatI came in. I came in from
a hedge fund. It was verydifficult. I mean, you have you
(18:56):
have to be open minded. Youhave to sort of let risk take over
sometimes and say I'm allowing this eventhough it makes me feel a little uncomfortable.
I sit in a role that is, you know, rooted in regulate
regulation, and there's very precise policyand procedure. There's there's there's very like
legal legally right and wrong answers toeverything, but there's buoys of reasonability you
(19:22):
can kind of like swim between.And that gray area is where a lot
of attorneys don't like to play.They sort of they kind of want to
make it a little easier for themselvesand create black and white rules. You
can't do that at a hedge fund. And I brought that perspective to Lazard,
and it through people like for aloop. I mean it just through
them for a loop. They werelike, wait, there's ways to there's
(19:45):
ways to come from a place ofyes, but we're going to do it
in this way that has bound thereason around it and it and it sort
of created this style at Lazard wherenow people are much more forthcoming to legal
on compliance because they're like, they'llcome from a place of yes, but
there's a couple of things we're goingto add to make sure that we're within
(20:06):
Like the reason and because so manypeople have been at this firm for so
long and the set it and forgetit mode is kicked in, there was
a tendency to say no. Andyou never want your legal and compliance team
to be on the outskirts of thedecision making process. They should be partners
with the business so that when youdo say no, everybody knows you really
(20:29):
mean it and it's not like no, no, no, all right fine.
So that is like a skill thatis transformational thinking for an attorney,
but it's also transformational for the business. It makes people want to come to
you because you're willing to play ball, and that that is That's not one
example. It's sort of just agift I got from the hedge fund.
I wouldn't have been able to functionif I said no. They would have
(20:51):
gone right around me. And whatI love about that is very often in
organizations, your function would be consideredlike the sales prevention team. Yes,
because it's very narrow prevention unit.The BP Yeah, it's like a thing,
and I choose to listen to thebusiness, find commercial reasonable commercial commercially
(21:14):
reasonable answers that make the business growand keep but keep us safe. Like
that's that's how this should work.It should be a symbiotic relationship where we
kind of like mesh. And thenwhen I do say no, people say,
wow, Nargis said no, sheprobably couldn't find a reasonable solution to
this, and that no means no, that's right, and they won't forum
(21:36):
shop me and go someplace else.Yeah, that to me is like one
of the strongest tenants of your brand. It really has become one of the
strongest tenants of my brand for sure. The other thing that you talked about
is this idea that transformational thinking iscontagious when there is no ego involved.
(21:59):
Please say, I have found myselfin many situations in my role we're out
of We're out of just sort ofpersonal principles. The answer as we are
not doing it your way, andI believe that it comes from a place
of control and ego. It's simplyI've never done it this way. It's
(22:23):
making me uncomfortable. I have ascript for this and I am not going
off script, and I choose tocut. And if I had an ego,
my answer to like rolling in thatgray area and trying to find what
is the right thing within the boozeof like reasonability, I would say no,
that makes me feel uncomfortable, Andthe answer is no, the law
(22:45):
says this, and I would belike the no, no no. Because
I don't have an ego, I'mwilling to sit and listen and try to
like mesh to to like maybe diametricallyoppose things together and make it work.
But it's very hard to change thedecision of somebody who is not willing to
listen because they have an ego aboutthe principle they're trying to prove. I
(23:07):
also think about ego in the waythat that you know, no task is
too small. No, nothing,nothing my team does is something I shouldn't
sit there and do with them.If I need to, I will do
things with the CEO, and I'lldo things with the most junior associate at
the firm. It doesn't matter thatI'm a sea level. Everybody deserves time,
(23:30):
respect and the contagion that comes alongwith watching somebody pick up things really
really tiny off the floor, butalso like change the macro environment of the
firm, show something to people.It's like, I'm willing to play ball
in any scenario for anything, foranyone. And this isn't about having a
(23:52):
personal agenda or a personal principle I'mtrying to prove. This is about sharing
the work, doing better and comingup with like the right response. So
it's ego in sort of like twoways. It's like, you can't change
it's very hard to change people's mindif they have an ego about it.
On principle, they won't. Butit's also important to show people at the
firm you're willing, You're willing todo it all. There's no like bouginess
(24:17):
about like, you know, meand my job and what I'm willing to
pick up m What about people thathave really influenced you in your life to
think more expansively and align with thatway of being? Who comes to mind.
(24:38):
The first person who ever gave mea chance in this industry was my
first was my first boss, andhe was incredible at doing this. It
was like it was like Jedi mindtricks in every meeting that he would do
where he would be like I totallyhear you and I think you're on the
(25:00):
right path, but I have twothings that I think you should change,
and they'd be really big things.But he would say it in such a
way that it didn't feel so itdidn't feel like you were perverting somebody's original
idea that I have like kind ofglommed onto doing that. As in every
point of my career, it's like, great idea, Love it, even
if I'm like, that is nota great idea. Great idea, love
(25:22):
it. There's two things that wecan do to make this better, safer,
stronger, and will like future proofright, like this will stand the
set test of time. We're ina safe spot. And you just the
way you say it is so importantthat you don't feel like you're perverting what
they're saying. You're just offering liketwo lego pieces or three lego pieces that
click in really easily, that makethis all so much better. So it's
(25:47):
not saying I don't like your ideathat doesn't work for me. It's how
do we change your idea ever soslightly, which might actually be pretty material
to just make this right. That'sa gift that has taken me a very
long time to life earn. Buthe taught me that the other is just
like again, going back to theway I grew up, it's just like
sheer brute force hard work, likehard work shines, you know, getting
(26:10):
things done on time, Being respectfulof people's wishes and wants, moving the
business forward quickly, efficiently and withyou know, grace and and sort of
respect for everybody is so important tome that you know, I don't I
don't know that you learn that,but it's been bestowed upon me by my
(26:30):
parents, and I just it clicksfor me. I love the visual of
legossay. I do it all thetime. I'm like, I'm always like
there's just like this one like littletetris piece that would like make this fit
really well. And I do thatall the time, and they're usually very
material. But I'm not like ruiningthe structure. I'm just like adding on
(26:51):
like a chunk of like my ownthinking on top right. It makes it
kind of a little bit more ofmy own without perverting like the core structure.
So how do you stay fresh andcurrent and aligned to this way of
being? Are you like a voraciousreader? Are you a are you a
meditator? Like? What is itthat you're doing that's staying aligned to this
(27:15):
way of being and my role.Well, what you know one and two
is an attorney, you sort ofhave, you have continuing education, you
have to do it. I choosecontinuing education that roots very closely to my
to my career and finance. AndI very much learn by listening from the
people around me. I mean,I could not have learned this complicated business
(27:37):
without sort of again humbling myself andsaying, you don't know, and you
have to listen, and you haveto learn, and you will root yourself
into every piece of this business tillyou understand it. That's done me well.
And that's done me sort of notso well. I mean, it's
done me well. And that youknow, I've become sort of a subject
(27:59):
matter expert on a lot of differentthings. It's done me not so well.
That now that you're a subject matteron a lot of different things,
to get pulled into a lot ofthings, and they may or may not
be like very related to your corejob and function. But taking the time
to learn it all is a gift. I mean. And again, people
either want to put in that workor they don't. You know, I
(28:22):
think that's important. But I Also, you know, I'm not a voracious
reader. I don't read one thingoutside of work because I'm reading all day.
I make things easier for myself.I mean my web My web page
when I log in is the Securitiesand Exchange Commission's web page, so I
know every single thing they're doing everyday that's on their agenda, because their
agenda is my agenda. So Itry to do things that make things easier
(28:45):
for myself. But I'm not avoracious reader. I want things to be
easy. I sort of, youknow, easy, palatable like consumable data
points are like my way of understandinghow things work as opposed to reading,
and that sort of is weird asan attorney. But instead of reading pages
and pages of a role, Ilike to be efficient then quick, like
(29:07):
comple solutions fast like that's important tome. Last question, what are you
truying? So we talked a littlebit about this idea of this self acknowledgment
and appreciating your progress and different thingsthat you're doing. Tell us what you're
working on for yourself. Going intothe last bit of twenty twenty three and
(29:27):
into twenty twenty four, what isNargus trying to get better at grow bigger,
in review, whatever it is,what does it look like? Yeah,
I mean, look, I've beenapproached multiple times to expand my thinking
around CEO and regulatory attorney to businessacumen. My ability to understand every piece
(29:49):
of the business that I was justspeaking about has turned into people realizing that
maybe there's a core competency there we'renot tapping into. So I'm really thinking
about, together with senior people atthe firm, what can I do to
add value in ways that is notmy core competency. That scares me a
(30:11):
lot. I will fail at somethings doing that, and that journey is
scary. And I've been told We'regoing to give you some projects that you
will fail at, but we wantto see you stumble because you stumbling is
learning. I don't like doing that. I like to be good at what
I do and the past. Howare you going to ready yourself for that?
Like, what are you going todo? I'm scared? I'm not
(30:32):
ready. I mean I literally thethree projects that I have in front of
me right now that I am choosingfrom and must decide by next week.
Literally, this is all real.I am petrified to do any one of
them. They're not my core skillset. They're true business acumen projects.
They are things that I wouldn't touchwith a ten foot poll if you told
me to and I had a milliondollars at the end of it. I
(30:55):
mean, there are things that Icould royally screw up. But if I
don't take this chance, I'm notlearning, growing, pushing myself, and
I'm not making I'm not making seniormanagement proud. I mean, if this
is what they want to see outof me, you say yes, and
that is who I am like.I don't say no. I won't say
no to something that someone is likeoffering me. Well, Nargus, thank
(31:21):
you for offering all of your insights, your heart, your amazing stories,
your energy, Like you have suchconviction and passion around this, it's like
it's very palpable, and it's nosurprise to me that you're just an amazing
ride right now. So I can'twait to see and hear firsthand how this
(31:44):
is all going to play out foryou. I'm looking forward to it.
We'll see and I so appreciate youhaving me on. Thank you for joining
me for another episode of The Warriorsat Work Show. If you are interested
in learning more about what we doat the Warriors Work show and platform.
Be sure to go over to mywebsite, Geniecoomber, and subscribe to my
(32:06):
monthly Warrior Playbook newsletter. I shareeverything that I'm up to month by month,
as well as some lessons and insightsthat I've learned. I'm also interested
in hearing any feedback you have aboutthis conversation or future topics, so reach
out to me directly on JC atgeniecomber dot com or on LinkedIn. Be
(32:28):
sure to tell your friends and yourcolleagues about this Warriors at Work conversation.
Subscribe, review and rate us.It's the best way to get this message
out into the world. Be well,
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