February 17, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode of The Leadership Vision Podcast, we sit down with Larry Armstrong, former CEO turned artist and author, to discuss his new book, Layered Leadership. Larry shares how his background in architecture, art, and leadership shaped his philosophy and how layers—whether in design, strategy, or personal growth—are key to success.
We discuss:
- How creativity enhances leadership and decision-making
- The importance of self-awareness in leadership growth
- Why long-term, daring goals fuel team engagement and success
- The connection between personal well-being and effective leadership
- How integrating multiple disciplines, like art and business, strengthens leadership
Key Quotes:
🗣 “The way I conceive my art, the way I provide leadership, and the way I built my company is in layers.” – Larry Armstrong
🗣 “Being an artist made me a better CEO. And being a CEO made me a better artist.” – Larry Armstrong
🗣 “Self-awareness comes from a mixture of self-doubt, ambition, and learning from mistakes.” – Larry Armstrong
🗣 “Long-term goals create a clear path forward and allow teams to stay aligned with a vision.” – Larry Armstrong
Action Item:
Take a moment to reflect: How can you integrate creativity into your leadership? Whether through art, music, or even a different way of problem-solving—challenge yourself to think beyond traditional leadership frameworks.
Resources Mentioned:
- Layered Leadership by Larry Armstrong
- More about Larry’s work –
- Leadership Vision’s insights on team culture
-
Read the full blog post here!
CONTACT US
- email: connect@leadershipvisionconsulting.com
- Leadership Vision Online
ABOUT
The Leadership Vision Podcast is a weekly show sharing our expertise in discovering, practicing, and implementing a Strengths-based approach to people, teams, and culture. Contact us to talk to us about helping your team understand the power of Strengths.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This idea of continuous learning your whole
life.
Never stop learning.
You learn when you go through.
You suffer a lot of pain, amistake, but you also can learn
just by pushing yourself intosomething that maybe you haven't
experienced before.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canvisit us on the web at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom orclick the link in the show
notes.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
(00:37):
podcast we have a fascinatingconversation with a really cool
guy, larry Armstrong, and we'retalking about his new book,
layered Leadership.
Larry is an architect at a big,fancy firm in Southern
California.
He's also an artist, a formerCEO and now an author, and his
leadership philosophy is builtaround these ideas of layers how
(00:58):
vision, strategy, creativity,how these things all stack
together to create bold,effective leadership.
In this episode, dr Linda Brianand myself explore how Larry's
experience of over 30 years inarchitecture and art has
informed his leadership styleand philosophy.
We also talk about the role ofself-awareness and why
(01:19):
creativity is a critical toolfor leaders at any and all
levels.
Get ready for just anabsolutely insightfully
delightful conversation packedwith practical wisdom and
inspiration.
You're listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, larry
, thanks so much for doing this.
I want you to introduceyourselves, but I want to give
(01:40):
you a couple of quotes toreflect on quotes from you.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Some about some random quotes.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Some random quote from some guy named Larry I
found.
But Larry, this morning when Iwas getting ready to go for my
run I run pretty much every day,as does Brian, realizing that I
start my day in layers,thinking about what am I going
to wear to face the elements asI go outside.
And so I was kind of noodlingon that on my run.
And then these two quotes fromyou one is from your Instagram
(02:10):
bio that says layered visionprovides the basis for creative
philosophy and bold leadership.
And then there's a quote in, Ithink, the first chapter of your
book, where you say the way Iconceive my art, the way I
provide leadership and the way Ibuilt my company is in layers.
And so, by way of introducingwho you are to our audience,
(02:31):
introducing your book, talkabout this layer idea.
I know this is the whole pointof your book, but when Brian and
Linda and I were preppingbefore this, we're like he's an
architect.
No, he's an engineer.
No, he's an artist.
Wait, he's a leadership author.
There's so many layers to whoyou are that it just makes sense
that this would be your book.
So, by way of introduction, canyou sort of layer a bunch of
(02:52):
stuff together of how todescribe who Lawrence Armstrong
is, and then we'll get into allthe great leadership stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, awesome, thanks .
Well, this might take a minute.
Take it Go for it All right.
So well, first of all, you know,architects are trained to think
in layers, so for architectsthis isn't really maybe
groundbreaking.
I think that you know the way Isee the world and the way I
perceive everything is sort ofin this idea of these
(03:24):
synthesized layers, and so whenit comes to the built
environment and design, you haveto think in three-dimensional
layers of space and void andsolid and walls and floors and
structural elements andtransparency and glass and light
(03:47):
.
And so you kind of think thatway, but I, you know, over time
I've kind of extended thatconcept into this just sort of a
more of an idea than a physicalmanifestation.
All the time you know, when youlike, right now, physical
(04:08):
manifestation.
All the time you know, when youlike, right now, and I'm in
space in my office and I can seethrough.
You know this amazingtechnology, the zoom technology,
into your spaces, and there'sseveral layers I can see in all
of your spaces and light there'sdifferent layers of lighting in
here you can see it.
Over there there's differentlayers of sound right.
(04:30):
Sounds coming from background,over here, me speaking, maybe a
little echo Sounds from yourside of the camera, and then
there's very sort of conceptualno matter where you are, what
space you're in or or who you'retalking to or what group you
(04:50):
happen to be with, there's sortof this conceptual layer of
thought and emotion that isgoing on in each of us all the
time, and so sometimes it's it'sreally a physical thing,
sometimes it's sort of a soundthing, and I I really study
music a lot, so there's allkinds of layers that inspire me
in music.
Sometimes it's just veryconceptual, and so I've applied
(05:12):
that to my art.
My art is very abstractexpressionist, I guess is what
it is but it's all based on thisongoing study layers
conceptually.
And then the way over time, aswe built our company, I was
inspired by really varied kindof input either a person or a
(05:35):
concept or something I read in abusiness book, or a painting or
a piece of music or a metaphor,and somehow applying an idea
came from an inspiration fromone of those sources becoming a
strategy, part of the strategyto build our company or to
(05:57):
inspire our people, to get aconcept that we're trying to
implement, to execute on ourstrategies as a company.
And so over time kind of put allthese together and, you know,
ended up being kind of a lot andended up being pretty
successful.
So I decided, okay, I betterwrite about it.
(06:20):
Oh so, not that you know, I'mnot an author at least I wasn't
until I did this and uh.
So there you go.
That's what we're talking about, wow and was it?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
was it someone encouraging you to write the
book, like you got to write thisdown.
Or was it like this deep inner,like well, I guess I'm already
doing it or I have language forit Like what was the?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
it was kind of both of those things.
I think, you know I hadtransitioned from.
I was CEO for 28 years, Itransitioned to chairman.
I'm being bought out and, youknow, had more time for some of
these other facets in my lifeand you know, mentoring and
coaching has always been a bigpart of my, you know, whether it
(07:07):
be with my kids or my leadersat the company or just friends
that have businesses that I'vehelped, or actually other people
I've met that asked for help.
And so actually my daughter,who is a political psychologist,
encouraged me that I shouldprobably be charging for these
ideas of mine when I mentorpeople, and I said I, you know
(07:30):
I'm happy to help people, I'mhappy to work If somebody has a
question or if I can mentionthem a little bit, it's no big
deal, I'm not going to chargefor that.
He goes.
Well, then you should write abook, yeah, okay.
You know, so I had to thinkabout that for a little bit,
because I you know, I, to behonest, I hadn't thought about
it in the past but I didn't knowif I'd ever really do it.
(07:51):
But really I think it was thatconversation with her that kind
of inspired me, to kickstartedthe idea that, okay, maybe I
should think about.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, okay, I got a question as a leader, how long
were you playing with these,with the ideas, concepts or
modalities of this leadershipidea that you had, like, did you
have a clear sense of thedirection you were heading?
Were you doing maybe thedifferent layers of this
(08:21):
practice over time and you saw,and you saw some connection
happening here, like, how didthe the process evolve for you?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, I think it began with just pure ambition
originally in terms of thecompany.
I wanted our company to growand I wanted it to be a lot
bigger and more important thanit was when I took it over.
And so over time, one of thefirst things I discovered was I
(08:53):
got to stay out in front of mycompany at all times and provide
some sort of vision if we'regoing to go somewhere.
And you know, I was reallyyoung when I took over the
company, so I was learning someof these things on the fly and
sort of trying to craft how Iwas going to do what I wanted to
do with the ambition that I had, sort of thing, Because I saw a
(09:15):
lot of potential in our companyand it was already a really
good architectural firm basedhere in Southern California.
And so I think over time sort ofI guess the impetus or the
pressure I put on myself to tryto stay out in front, have a
vision, be able to tell peoplewhere we wanted to go, that idea
(09:35):
then was searching for ways tocommunicate that that would
resonate, and so I startedcoming up with these concepts
based on something I wasinspired by.
Sometimes it was just adaptinga concept that you know book
that I read, and we've all readlots of books, a lot of business
books, but how do you everreally apply that and make it
(09:57):
work for your company?
So that was part of it.
But then also part of it wasjust how do I conceptually
explain the idea to get us wherewe're going, like the visible
lifespan?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
That was a big one.
I have another question for you.
This is where you started.
You started with your approachand that came from your training
and how you wove that intowhere you're at today.
What is the role ofself-awareness for you?
You start the book that way,but I'm hearing it in your
(10:29):
language from the beginningwithout having identified it to
this point.
So can you speak a little biton the role of self-awareness
and how important that is inthis leadership model that
you've designed?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that sometimes
that comes from some sort ofmixture of self-doubt and
ambition, you know, and thenmaking mistakes where you feel
like an idiot, and so you know,you have to be able to learn and
accept you know yourshortcomings and decide if you
can overcome those or try toanyway, I think.
(11:00):
Also, I think one of the biggestthings for me was understanding
that there are people thatreally collaborative and good at
working together.
Um was a huge realization forme, I guess, and you know it's a
real thing, you know, I mean, Ialways say people have heard me
(11:42):
say it a million times we havea world-class executive team.
There are some Most of themhave been with us for many, many
years.
So you know, it's just thisvery special thing that we've
been able to put together thathas really fueled the leadership
ideas within our companyBecause, you know, everyone's
committed to the goal,everyone's committed to each
(12:03):
other, everyone builds oneveryone else's ideas.
You know, which is really kindof cool.
So you know, that was a big onefor us, I think, some of these
discoveries along the way andbeing willing to embrace those
sorts of things, Did they startworld-class?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Did you?
Did you?
No, really like, did you findworld-class people?
Or or was it part of even yourleadership style to kind of
unearth some of the excellence,or weave the weave, the goals of
being great, being working, youknow be great together.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
be great in the in the industry yeah, great being
working, you know being greattogether, being great in the
industry, yeah, so I mean Ithink that kind of like what
happened to me somebody sawsomething in me and developed it
and I had a great opportunity,and so we try to find people
that really so.
We try to find people thatreally have that ambition and
(13:04):
that drive and the ability towork together, I guess
collaborate and everybody needscoaching and mentoring, I guess
you know.
And so I think it's reallyabout having being very talented
, the people.
They were already extremelytalented and really awesome but
(13:25):
also brought that sort ofmindset and so finding people
over time that sort of fit, thatmold, I guess you know.
And when I say mold, it's not aspecific kind of a thing, it's
more about very talented, youknow, ambitious but
collaborative, you know, excitedabout the vision, and so you
(13:49):
know people have differentstrengths and you work with them
to develop those things for thebenefit of their own career and
in the company.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
So I want to go back to what you said about you know
your daughter having aconversation with you like dad
you should charge money or writea book.
But you know there's oftentimeswhen people that we don't even
expect are watching ourmovements or who we're bringing
together, how we do the workthat we're doing, what would you
say your daughter saw in inwhat you've created and how you
(14:25):
mentor, how, how you lead, likewhat, what was it Cause?
That's?
That's an interesting story.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I've helped a couple of her friends over time and
she's seen that and and you know, I guess there was some
conversation about that withsome of them that said, look,
you know he should be chargingfor this kind of stuff.
I can't believe you're justtalking to people for free and I
was like they're my daughter'sfriends, I mean, you know, so I
(14:53):
don't know.
And plus, Lauren is in my sonJames.
They both grew up experiencingthis growth of a company and you
know they got a lot of thosesame lectures themselves to work
on building a company.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know, but I don't know.
You know, obviously she'switnessed the whole thing being.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Our daughter would bring friends over and she would
say can they all takeStrengthsFinder?
I was like that, that costsmoney, like that we're not a
part of, of Gallup Um, but she,she knew that, you know, with
some of that information wecould, we could host some nice
conversation.
So we've, we've definitelydefinitely um invested and so I
(15:39):
just think it's a richcompliment, uh, testimony, a
testimony to your legacy as well, that your kids would recognize
that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, they're pretty great.
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's wonderful.
Yeah, larry, I have a questionabout one of the camera, with
Nathan included.
The personal well-being ofphysical, mental health is a big
part of who we are and it's avery large part of the practice
(16:13):
that we engage our clients withis bringing that side up.
I see you have a little like aside connection to financial
health.
I want to put that aside for asecond.
I want to have that as a secondquestion to this.
So can you speak to um theimportance to wellness and how
that plays into leadership fromyour perspective?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's huge and it's the reason I put something in
there in the book and it wasagain.
It was um a, it was a lesson Itook to one of our leadership
meetings because that whenpeople are really well, first of
all in architecture, we tend towork long hours.
I mean it's just one of thoseprofessions that doesn't tend to
(16:56):
be an eight to five kind of aprofession.
And so, you know, as we'rebuilding a company and people
are hard driving and trying toreach the goals and all this
kind of stuff, people can getout of balance, do get out of
balance, and big time got out ofbalance.
So again, it was another one ofmy you know personal hard
(17:20):
learning lessons that you knowyou have to take care of
yourself, you have to balanceyourself, you have to take time
away from work, you have toexercise, you have to eat right,
you have to take your vitaminsor whatever, go to the doctor,
do all these things that areeverybody knows, but people make
excuses, uh, or you know weshould not always prioritize, I
(17:42):
guess, guess, as they ought to,and so it made that kind of a
big deal around our company thatI really want everyone to take
care of themselves and make surethey go on vacation and do all
these things Our doctors andpersonal trainers and our mom
have told us.
Our whole life Personaltrainers and our mom have told
(18:04):
us our whole life.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Was there a moment many of us in this wellness
journey come to someintersection on that journey
where we realize I need to makea different choice.
Was there a moment like that inyour life where you realized
(18:28):
that you were at an intersectionand an imbalance in how?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
you're taking care of yourself and pursuing your
career.
What was that moment like?
Yeah, it manifested in, um, youknow, stress and anxiety and
you know, feeling very good.
Well then, all that sort ofstuff.
Luckily, you know, my wifeSandy, helped me figure this out
(18:49):
and, you know, over a longperiod of time, I made little
adjustments to my life.
I didn't do it all at once andlayered in different aspects of,
you know, eating better,sleeping better, taking time off
or finding something else to do, you know, be or whatever,
(19:12):
working out, eating better, youknow all this kind of stuff and
so, um, but yeah, it was alittle at a time.
I think implementation was alittle time until I really kind
of dialed it in.
And, you know, I think shedeserves a lot of credit for
helping guide me through allthat stuff is that where the art
(19:34):
came from?
well, yeah, well, okay, so theart, it's an interesting thing.
Yeah mean, I've been an artistmy whole life.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But I never showed work.
You know, it wasn't that sortof thing I would.
I've always had a sketchbookand I've always had projects
that I've worked exit from thefirm and I wanted I didn't want
to be one of these guys that Idon't retire and then I start
trying to play golf and then I'mmore bored and I don't know
what to do with myself when I'mstressed out.
(20:19):
So I said, okay, I'm gonna tryto have an art career, and so I
started showing my art and thiswas about 2011 maybe, or
something, I don't know.
The whole idea was well, I'llstart screwing around with this
a little bit and by the time I,you know, ramped down here at
when Malcolm Moe maybe I'veramped that up a little bit a
(20:40):
little bit Issue is that it itramped up like really steeply,
really fast, way faster than Ithought it would, which you know
it was awesome, but I didn'treally plan that it's.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And so I want to ask a question to reverse engineer
that, once you started dabblinginto and trying to magnify the
artistic side of who you are,was there a lesson that you
discovered in that artisticjourney that you directly
applied to leadership?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I was really lucky.
I think I started pursuing thiswhen I did, because it
developed into this thing I say,which is, being an artist made
me a better CEO and being a CEOmade me a better artist.
Yeah, the freedom, and this iswhat I always say about the art,
(21:32):
because there's so much freedomin art, it can be anything you
want.
I mean, there literally are noparameters.
See my kids are you know, it'spretty freeing to your the.
Your brain thinks right, and sowhen you are able to express
that in your art, you start tolearn rule.
(21:52):
You start bringing a bachelorcompany and like, why are all
these constraints on all this?
I mean, obviously, when you'redesigning a building, there's
all kinds of constraints.
You know right, right, why itconstraints structural can say,
code, you know all kinds ofthings and that's why it should
be.
There's still creativity thatyou can find within those
parameters.
The idea was all right.
(22:15):
What are we thinking about inour company that is unnecessary
because we're not being creativeenough?
What are we thinking about interms of developing our team
that can be even more awesome?
That we're not even thinkingabout because we put some sort
of guardrails on it that maybeare artificial, you know, or
just because you know that'swhat we do or that's what we're
(22:37):
used to doing, or whatever it is.
So how can we break that moldand think more creatively, bring
creativity to leadership, bringcreativity to our strategy to
build the company?
And so you know that sort ofrealization and a lot of
creative in our company.
And so you know, an architectis always trying to be creative,
(23:00):
but building a company bringingstrategy, strategy building up
your people.
You know that's not always asso creative.
It's sort of like stuff youlearn in a business book or
getting an mba.
That it's not creative, atleast the way I see it.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah so about it.
So, with that side of yourjourney, did did you find
yourself then inviting otherpeople into some type of
artistic expression outside ofarchitecture, or was this more
of how you chose to learn moreabout yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I would say it started as trying to figure out
myself, turned it into, yes,trying to encourage people to
have a creative outlet, whateverthat may be, because I think
it's so valuable.
You know it's unbelievable, youknow, because we have, you know
(24:03):
, strength slanders We've usedthat a lot in our company.
Okay, well, I don't.
You know strength landers We'veused that a lot in our company.
Good, well, I don't.
I mean, I think it's a good tooland it's good to understand how
each other works in a companyso you can collaborate more
effectively and all that kind ofthing.
I also think it shows you sortof some guideposts for if you
(24:25):
want to develop another part ofyourself, it kind of exposes
that too.
So that's what I've tried toactually emphasize.
It's like, okay, you're greatat that, but if you want to
really put up your brain alittle bit whole brain thinking
is a thing I say a lot, wholebrain drinking and maybe you
(24:47):
ought to try something, whetherit's a hobby or artistic pursuit
or something outside of work,or even if it's inside work,
look for opportunities todevelop that muscle over here,
because I think that's an areathat people don't really spend a
lot of time thinking Correct.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
You are T tapping into our approach.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yes, you are tapping into our approach as well, as
well, simplistically, my life'swork.
So thank you.
So I just want to make anobservation and then ask a
follow up question.
Just want to make anobservation and then ask a
follow-up question.
Whenever an organization uses atool whatever that tool of
(25:30):
choice is an assessment, apsychometric to highlight,
emphasize what someone's reallygood at, re-emphasizing that
over and over again can createsome very interesting patterning
patterning of how peoplebelieve in themselves, how they
do their work.
And there's nothing wrong withbehavioral patterns, because the
brain loves patterns andpredictability and you know
(25:51):
peace, for that matter, overrotating on that.
You create these deep, ruttedpatterns of behavior that are
very hard to break out of andlimits creativity, innovation
and the willingness tocollaborate, because you see
other people as deeply patternedas well.
So to encourage so like whatyou're doing, larry, to
encourage people to step awayfrom some of the clear
(26:14):
indicators of here's what you'restrong at, to invest in
something else, I think isextremely healthy for how people
engage the natural flow oftheir brain, because there's
different ways we can regulatehow we show up, and any type of
exercise that we do to open ourlives up to creativity and
innovation can only help usunderstand ourselves better,
(26:38):
give ourselves a break fromover-patterning our lives and
being willing to connect withpeople who have much different
approaches, because we realizethat that may help us as well.
Do you feel you're nodding?
You're nodding your head?
What's the agreement?
What are you agreeing?
Like what?
What stands out from my littleexample.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Well, concept, you know, I think that you know it
goes to.
Really, I learned from Leonardoda Vinci right being curious
about a lot of things, not justwhat you're naturally good at.
The endless curiosity and theinvestigation of something new
(27:21):
that maybe you're not ascomfortable with, and developing
at least a little bit ofknowledge or skill around.
That thing is incredible.
I mean, you know Leonardo's inmy book and I talk about
Leonardo all the time because Ijust think he's the greatest
genius that ever lived and allthis kind of stuff and um you
(27:41):
know, that's how I think aboutit, so, and I've just, I guess,
personally felt such benefitfrom developing skills that
maybe weren't my natural ones.
Not that it's ever going to bemaybe my biggest strength, but
now I'm at least better than Iwas at that thing or whatever,
or my understanding of that kindof behavior or whatever it is
(28:06):
or that thing, and so I justthink it's great.
I just think it's this idea ofcontinuous learning your whole
life.
Never stop learning.
You learn when you go throughpain, a mistake, but you also
can learn just by pushingyourself into something that
maybe you haven't experiencedbefore.
So I have this thing.
(28:27):
I was looking, I think they'rehere right now.
I think they're at my office.
Anyway, I made this thing outof Tinker twice.
So I have this.
You know the round hub, youstick.
You know the round hub and youstick.
You know the Tinker Toys inthem.
So to demonstrate this idea, onetime everybody take long and
(28:50):
short Tinker Toys and stick themin in a circle.
Think about the best thing thatyou do and put the longest one
in there.
Think about something you'renot very good at and put a short
one in there, and then just putit short ones and then look at
it and kind of spin, you know,out of balance it is, and you
(29:13):
know.
And then I said okay, in theideal world, if you were
leonardo and you had whole brainthinking and you got better at
every single thing across thespan of your whole life, don't
fall in with the long purpleones, you know, and then and see
how balanced it is and thenhold them up.
You know this, this could be meif I work at it, and this is
(29:38):
where I think I am right now,you know.
You know, it was kind of a coollittle demonstration.
I've used those Tinker Toys fora long time years, just to
demonstrate this point.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Okay, I have a Leonardo da Vinci question for
you.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Is it a pop quiz or is it a?
No, it's not a pop quiz.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
It's going to be directed directly at Larry.
So, with Leonardo da Vinci, Isee or understand him as, like
you said, a genius who'sapplying himself in a
multidisciplinary way where he'snot only studying maybe some of
the artistic renderings thatmay pop into our mind, but
(30:16):
everything from human anatomy toa study of water, to how we
approach landscapes, tomechanism, to weapons of warfare
, like there's just all thesedifferent elements that he's
dabbling in, and I naturallyassume that all of his skill is
interplaying with each one ofthose modalities.
Is that a way that you'reapproaching life, that you're
(30:38):
seeing yourself?
Well, I'm going to invest in mystudy of water for a decade.
That's going to reallyinfluence how I think in other
areas, like, do you have thatdistinctive approach to your
practice?
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, first of all, I'd say everything he did was
integrated into you know, as hediscovered something, he would
find a way that that related toyou know, something else that he
was doing.
All he always did that, and sothis sort of synthesizing
different types of learning anddifferent ideas is what he was
(31:09):
so great at, sounds such a greatexample for what I'm talking
about.
Yeah, so you know, I think, asI, as you discover something and
it inspires you and you figureout a way to why it, then you
teach it.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Okay, I got another question.
Go ahead, nathan.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Well, so I you know, in your, in your book, you talk
about integrating, where to go,integrating creativity layer by
layer, and I'm I'm wanting toget really specific and
practical, like how, how mightyou coach someone, or maybe what
would be your first step withworking with a young executive
or a young leader on this ideaof, you know, bringing more
(31:52):
creativity to all aspects oftheir life, to arrive at, you
know, better solutions?
What would be the first step inhelping someone do that, other
than just say, you know, maybego look for a better hobby, or
something Like did you havespecific ways that you would get
people to start thinking morecreative and all these different
layers and aspects of theirlife?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You know when it came .
When it comes to the company,you know sort of helping people,
um, so we're all headed onedirection.
You know I would use thesedifferent lessons or you know
inspirations I guess that Ifound related to how we were
going to build the company and,um, and sort of explain it to
(32:36):
them and get to getting them tothink about it sort of.
I think was teaching them howto do that a little bit.
Sure, I'm mentoring somebodyone-on-one.
I like to find out, you know,obviously, what they're feeling
(32:58):
good about, what they'restruggling with, and and try to
help maybe a little morespecifically guide them in that
way to take inspiration fromsomething that maybe they're
going to get better at.
It sort of depends.
But you know, I think a lot ofthe concepts that are in the
book are based on yeah stuff Idiscovered you know, Roadrunner
(33:20):
and a coyote is in there andSlombardi Slombardi's in there.
Yeah, no, and SlombardiSlombardi's in there now, and
you know the visible lightspectrum.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
So there's all kinds of stuff in there that I, you
know, or you know Home Depotversus Home Ace, you know
developing a strategy and who weare.
So there's a lot of differentkinds of concepts in there, and
that's on purpose, because ityou think about our business as
you apply to our business,different, little different way.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Right.
Do you think sometimes peopleare too compartmentalized and
they don't take oh, I, I loveplaying music or I love doing
these other things, and theydon't bring those different
disciplines or hobbies orwhatever you want to call them
into their roles.
They keep them at arm's lengthand so they can't get any
benefit from that.
(34:13):
Have you seen that a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know, I think a lot of people do have great
other interests outside of work,and I think it always, whether
they realize it or not, orwhether it's on purpose or not.
I definitely think it.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I don't know if they realize it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know, and my idea was bring it to the forefront
and think about it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Right, you know on purpose kind of you know, which
in and of itself might be aunique thing.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Larry, we spend a lot of our time working with
executive leadership teams andall the unique challenges that
they face, and I'm seeing one ofyour chapter headings as
speaking to achieving daringlong-range goals and I believe
like this is well.
We find that long-rangeplanning is.
It seems to be this ongoingchallenge, whether this
executive team's long range isFriday or a year from now.
(35:08):
You know, whatever that daringpart of it is, you know human
behavior says no to daring.
Why did the daring long rangegoal make it into your book?
Like, what's the importantmessage that you want to make
sure people understand about thenecessity of making daring long
range goals?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Because I love this so much.
It's been so awesome for ourfirm in building our company.
Let me just frame it a littlebit.
Absolutely, 30 years ago Idecided that, hey, you know we
need to write a business planbecause our company had never
had one before.
You know what are we trying todo next year?
(35:50):
You know never done it.
And so you know we spent a fewyears writing a plan, keeping it
tight so it wasn't a binderfull of stuff setting out some
goals, you know, and having eachdepartment or group or office,
you know, set some goals thatconsisted with what the company
(36:16):
wanted.
So we got pretty good at that.
We were.
You know we're putting instretch goals and hitting them
and doing a pretty good job.
And then, you know, we'reputting in stretch goals and
hitting them and doing a prettygood job.
And then, you know, they said,look, we have to write a, you
know, more of a long term goal.
And so we had gone through agrowth spurt and we were the
biggest we'd ever been.
(36:36):
You know, at that point I thinkwe'd build $20 million in a
year.
And I said, ok, now what are wegoing to do in a year?
And I said, okay, now what arewe going to do?
We're feeling good aboutourselves because we had hit
this goal and you know we'reever been, and all this kind of
stuff.
Okay, I think we should doublethe size of the company, you
(36:57):
know.
And so we, the executives,together and said what do you
think about this idea?
This is just an idea.
What do you?
You know there's nothing elseto that.
I mean, do we want to stay thesame?
Do we want to get better?
Do we want to get bigger?
Are clients asking us to goother places?
What do you want to do?
And so the executive team gotreally excited about this.
(37:20):
And, um, anyway, it was 2002.
So we decided to write afive-year plan to double the
size of the company 2007.
So, we called it our 007 planand it was awesome.
And everybody got really excited.
Yeah, it was great.
(37:40):
And so, you know, we set out tosay, okay, what kind of goals
are we going to set indiversifications, where are we
going to have offices, and allthese kind of things.
And again, we kept it prettytight.
You know, everybody, everydepartment could only have one
page and we set out to do this.
And then the cool thing this isthe cool thing about a long-term
(38:03):
plan First of all, it has to bea bigger vision.
You can't get in the weeds ofthis thing, right.
Right, then you can start tosee your yearly plan, which we
were already pretty good at as astep towards that goal.
So now, when you write thisplan, you say, okay, we're
trying to hit this in five years.
So what do we got to do thisyear to make sure that and that
(38:26):
is so powerful.
We hit the goal a year earlyand then we went way past the
goal and ended up at 50 millionby 07.
And we had a big celebration,company wide, and it was awesome
and I gave everybody I thinkGray died, we had iPods at the
time.
You know that was a big deal.
It was a cool thing for ourcompany, you know, and it was
(38:48):
really uh.
He galvanized everybody towardsthis goal and it was amazing
and we did it again.
You know, we went through therecession great recession.
We came back out and we wroteanother one for 2020 and we hit
that goal, you know, at ahundred million goal.
You know the a hundred milliontwo years early in 2018.
And so you know it's a lessonin yeah, if you, if you write it
(39:10):
and you see the vision and youexecute on your annual goals,
basically you can do.
And if you didn't have thatplan, god knows what would
happen.
You'd just be doing whateveryou're doing.
And so then I wrote this thingcalled Ultimate, where we're
(39:32):
Welcome.
So this was kind of veryconceptual.
Okay, if we put an office inevery market where we think we
should be, our clients need usand we build out every service
line that we offer and have amarket share that we should have
in every office, and we haveall our diversifications built
(39:55):
in.
I mean runway's tremendous andgrowth is, and so we have a lot
of conceptual stuff and a mapand a revenue and or chart and
all this stuff.
And I distilled it.
You know, on one page it's like, okay, now what our five-year
goals are, a step towards thisthing.
And of course, we smashed rightthrough my oh, my god, we'll
(40:20):
never.
You know, this is like a dream.
While we already smashedthrough, we've had to rewrite
Ultimate, where Malcolm haddoubled.
I'm a huge believer in this Huge, huge believer in these
long-term goals.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Yeah, and finding people ambitious enough or open
enough to even make it happen.
Right my question?
Can I ask a question?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
You may?
Yes, please, I don't needpermission from you.
I don't need permission fromyou, but I would interrupt your
other one.
There we go.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Oftentimes, when we write things or when we are
presenting something, we leaveit and there's something that
speaks back to us, and so myquestion to you is, as you've
written this book and arepromoting it and getting it in
people's hands and talking aboutsome of the layers of layered
(41:12):
leadership, for you, what hasbeen a helpful sentiment that
you have found is reminding youof why you did this work, why
you are both the art and scienceof leadership.
What is it that maybe speaksback to you, even though it's
(41:33):
your own words?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah Well, first of all, this book has been a giant
learning experience for me.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
We know.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, I mean crazy, I never.
Well, first of all, it's likeanything.
When I was five years old, Iwanted to be an architect and I
knew it, but I had no clue whatit was going to be.
Right Turns out, I loved it,wrote the book, no, what really
was going to evolve.
You know, I've learned, andthen just getting it down, you
(42:12):
know, when I I think the coolthing, it was just Monday A box
of them showed up.
It's not out yet, but I got myadvanced copies and this is the
first time I've actually had thebook March 4th, right, march
4th, it comes out.
Yeah, I've had it in my hand.
I'm looking at it, it's like,oh my God, this is so cool.
You know and I designed thebook too my publisher allowed me
(42:34):
to design the cover and thefont and all the interior of the
book.
It's just, you know, it's ahuge accomplishment, and what
something.
That's actually much more of anaccomplishment than I even
thought it would be.
It was a lot of work, and it'sstill a lot of work, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
So what were the emotions when you were holding
it?
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Penis yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
From being done.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm a little bit.
I'm kind of proud of myself.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Yes, good, yes good.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I think the other thing about it is people who
have read it given me suchamazing feedback and there's
interest in it and people writebooks you know that's right, I
had no idea, and so my I have avery good friend who is an icon
(43:33):
in publishing and she issemi-retired now, so she didn't
help me formally with the bookat all, but she gave me some
advice and it was very helpful,and she also introduced me to my
ghostwriter, which was awesome,oh nice.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
What was her advice?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
It had to be differentiated.
You have to have adifferentiator.
She goes what's your idea?
And so you know she your idea.
And so you know she's very.
You know she's been inpublishing a long time, so she,
you know, doesn't mince wordsand doesn't want to give anybody
false hope.
So she said yeah, and so I toldher my idea and I sent her my
(44:16):
outline and, um, she was very,which was great, because if she
wasn't, I wouldn't have writtenthe book.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Congratulations.
Yeah, I was going to say onething I like about the book is
all the little like the graphicsand the notes and the little
examples and stuff that I don'tsee in a lot of leadership books
.
Um, even the fact that you haveI'm trying to find it here in
the digital copy um, thehandwritten notes that you kept
(44:49):
that you had sent to employeesor mentees or whatever.
I just thought that was such acool, uh, a cool touch that you
don't again I haven't seen.
I've read a lot of leadershipbooks.
I don't haven't seen somethingkind of.
It felt very personal, I guessis where I'm going.
Like it felt like a personalstory, very much of like I'm
(45:10):
gathering all this 20, 30,whatever years worth of info and
I'm I'm packaging it up for you.
So I I think it will be wellreceived, especially from people
that read leadership books andthey want something not quite as
boring.
So thank you for putting thisinto the world.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
No, I really appreciate that, and that was
kind of a goal is to not make itsome long tool lecturing
somebody about.
I just wanted to show some,wanted it to be interesting,
with a lot of graphics and myart in there, as you can see.
Yeah, and yeah, the notes.
Okay, we've done gosh.
(45:44):
I don't do it anymore.
I delegated that out and when Iwas doing that, when I was CEO,
I did it for many, many yearsactually, and we still do it.
I swiped that from Jack Welchhe, he, it was in his book and I
swiped that one.
It was.
It really inspired me and I'veused that for many, many years
(46:05):
yeah, well, it's interesting,just even on a practical level.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Obviously you would want to make it personal to
whoever you're sending it to,but just like oh, okay, this is
here they are.
This is an interesting like.
How would I send, like, ifsomeone's not naturally good at
sending those types of notes topeople, it's like oh, this is, I
don't know, maybe a goodexample of like how you would
send a note to a leader thatyou're wanting to connect with.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
So yeah, and I have to say I was pretty clumsy at it
when I started Of course, butthat's, that's the point of like
, yeah, you practice, you keepdoing it, you get better you
iterate and all that stuff,Larry.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
anything else we just have appreciated hearing your
stories, hearing the way thatyou're getting your heart really
not just your mind but yourheart into the world.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Geez, I don't know.
You guys had great questionsand really different questions
which is really cool and I lovedit.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I'm glad because asking questions is our job.
Well, larry, I want to thankyou and thank you for your time.
I really appreciate speaking topeople that have not only a
seasoned expertise but a livedexperience that expands beyond
that, and so it's clear to methat you have a lived experience
that expands broader than yourlived expertise.
(47:28):
So those two things comingtogether, I really believe,
contributes to the geniusperspective that you bring on
reality, and anything that wecan do to amplify voices like
that I believe is helpful,because I think people feel
threatened to go on the broaderlife's journey when they'd
rather spend their time in thenarrow, and sometimes expertise
(47:48):
can be really, really narrow andcan lead to a life that doesn't
explore, maybe limits,curiosity and creativity.
So I hear all those themes inyou curiosity, creativity,
exploration, a courage tojourney onto a landscape that
most people don't journey.
So I want to thank you for yourvoice and your time in being
(48:11):
brave to write a book so thankyou, larry.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Thank you so much.
We really appreciate itAbsolutely.
Wow, what a great conversationwith Larry Armstrong.
Larry, thank you so much fordoing this.
His layered leadership approachchallenges us to, I think, just
think differently aboutleadership, by embracing
creativity, self-awareness andlong-term vision as key
(48:38):
components of success.
So one big takeaway that I hadis that leadership isn't about
having all the answers.
It's really about this idea ofcontinuous or whole brain
learning, as he talked about.
It's about adapting andbringing diverse layers of
experience into your role as aleader.
So here's one action item,something that you can do, maybe
(48:59):
this week.
Just take one step to engageyour creative side, whether
that's journaling, drawing,playing music or exploring just
a new idea.
See how it influences yourleadership perspective.
See how it maybe changes theway that you approach problems
or deal with setbacks, or evenjust looks for solutions in
(49:20):
different areas.
Thank you for listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, our
show helping you build positiveteam culture, for more resources
about developing your team,about developing your strengths
or about creating a positiveteam environment wherever you
are.
Please click the link in theshow notes or visit us on the
web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
We've also got links toeverything we talked about here,
(49:43):
including Larry's new book,layer Leadership, in the link,
in the bio, in the company blogpost, in the show notes,
wherever you want to find it,also on social media.
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
This idea of continuous learning your whole
life.
Never stop learning.
You learn when you go through.
You suffer a lot of pain, amistake, but you also can learn
just by pushing yourself intosomething that maybe you haven't
experienced before.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You are listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast,
our show helping you buildpositive team culture.
Our consulting firm has beendoing this work for the past 25
years so that leaders arementally engaged and emotionally
healthy.
To learn more about us, you canvisit us on the web at
leadershipvisionconsultingcom orclick the link in the show
notes.
Hello everyone, my name isNathan Freeberg and today on the
(00:37):
podcast we have a fascinatingconversation with a really cool
guy, larry Armstrong, and we'retalking about his new book,
layered Leadership.
Larry is an architect at a big,fancy firm in Southern
California.
He's also an artist, a formerCEO and now an author, and his
leadership philosophy is builtaround these ideas of layers how
(00:58):
vision, strategy, creativity,how these things all stack
together to create bold,effective leadership.
In this episode, dr Linda Brianand myself explore how Larry's
experience of over 30 years inarchitecture and art has
informed his leadership styleand philosophy.
We also talk about the role ofself-awareness and why
(01:19):
creativity is a critical toolfor leaders at any and all
levels.
Get ready for just anabsolutely insightfully
delightful conversation packedwith practical wisdom and
inspiration.
You're listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, larry
, thanks so much for doing this.
I want you to introduceyourselves, but I want to give
(01:40):
you a couple of quotes toreflect on quotes from you.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Some about some random quotes.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Some random quote from some guy named Larry I
found.
But Larry, this morning when Iwas getting ready to go for my
run I run pretty much every day,as does Brian, realizing that I
start my day in layers,thinking about what am I going
to wear to face the elements asI go outside.
And so I was kind of noodlingon that on my run.
And then these two quotes fromyou one is from your Instagram
(02:10):
bio that says layered visionprovides the basis for creative
philosophy and bold leadership.
And then there's a quote in, Ithink, the first chapter of your
book, where you say the way Iconceive my art, the way I
provide leadership and the way Ibuilt my company is in layers.
And so, by way of introducingwho you are to our audience,
(02:31):
introducing your book, talkabout this layer idea.
I know this is the whole pointof your book, but when Brian and
Linda and I were preppingbefore this, we're like he's an
architect.
No, he's an engineer.
No, he's an artist.
Wait, he's a leadership author.
There's so many layers to whoyou are that it just makes sense
that this would be your book.
So, by way of introduction, canyou sort of layer a bunch of
(02:52):
stuff together of how todescribe who Lawrence Armstrong
is, and then we'll get into allthe great leadership stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, awesome, thanks .
Well, this might take a minute.
Take it Go for it All right.
So well, first of all, you know,architects are trained to think
in layers, so for architectsthis isn't really maybe
groundbreaking.
I think that you know the way Isee the world and the way I
perceive everything is sort ofin this idea of these
(03:24):
synthesized layers, and so whenit comes to the built
environment and design, you haveto think in three-dimensional
layers of space and void andsolid and walls and floors and
structural elements andtransparency and glass and light
(03:47):
.
And so you kind of think thatway, but I, you know, over time
I've kind of extended thatconcept into this just sort of a
more of an idea than a physicalmanifestation.
All the time you know, when youlike, right now, physical
(04:08):
manifestation.
All the time you know, when youlike, right now, and I'm in
space in my office and I can seethrough.
You know this amazingtechnology, the zoom technology,
into your spaces, and there'sseveral layers I can see in all
of your spaces and light there'sdifferent layers of lighting in
here you can see it.
Over there there's differentlayers of sound right.
(04:30):
Sounds coming from background,over here, me speaking, maybe a
little echo Sounds from yourside of the camera, and then
there's very sort of conceptualno matter where you are, what
space you're in or or who you'retalking to or what group you
(04:50):
happen to be with, there's sortof this conceptual layer of
thought and emotion that isgoing on in each of us all the
time, and so sometimes it's it'sreally a physical thing,
sometimes it's sort of a soundthing, and I I really study
music a lot, so there's allkinds of layers that inspire me
in music.
Sometimes it's just veryconceptual, and so I've applied
(05:12):
that to my art.
My art is very abstractexpressionist, I guess is what
it is but it's all based on thisongoing study layers
conceptually.
And then the way over time, aswe built our company, I was
inspired by really varied kindof input either a person or a
(05:35):
concept or something I read in abusiness book, or a painting or
a piece of music or a metaphor,and somehow applying an idea
came from an inspiration fromone of those sources becoming a
strategy, part of the strategyto build our company or to
(05:57):
inspire our people, to get aconcept that we're trying to
implement, to execute on ourstrategies as a company.
And so over time kind of put allthese together and, you know,
ended up being kind of a lot andended up being pretty
successful.
So I decided, okay, I betterwrite about it.
(06:20):
Oh so, not that you know, I'mnot an author at least I wasn't
until I did this and uh.
So there you go.
That's what we're talking about, wow and was it?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
was it someone encouraging you to write the
book, like you got to write thisdown.
Or was it like this deep inner,like well, I guess I'm already
doing it or I have language forit Like what was the?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
it was kind of both of those things.
I think, you know I hadtransitioned from.
I was CEO for 28 years, Itransitioned to chairman.
I'm being bought out and, youknow, had more time for some of
these other facets in my lifeand you know, mentoring and
coaching has always been a bigpart of my, you know, whether it
(07:07):
be with my kids or my leadersat the company or just friends
that have businesses that I'vehelped, or actually other people
I've met that asked for help.
And so actually my daughter,who is a political psychologist,
encouraged me that I shouldprobably be charging for these
ideas of mine when I mentorpeople, and I said I, you know
(07:30):
I'm happy to help people, I'mhappy to work If somebody has a
question or if I can mentionthem a little bit, it's no big
deal, I'm not going to chargefor that.
He goes.
Well, then you should write abook, yeah, okay.
You know, so I had to thinkabout that for a little bit,
because I you know, I, to behonest, I hadn't thought about
it in the past but I didn't knowif I'd ever really do it.
(07:51):
But really I think it was thatconversation with her that kind
of inspired me, to kickstartedthe idea that, okay, maybe I
should think about.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, okay, I got a question as a leader, how long
were you playing with these,with the ideas, concepts or
modalities of this leadershipidea that you had, like, did you
have a clear sense of thedirection you were heading?
Were you doing maybe thedifferent layers of this
(08:21):
practice over time and you saw,and you saw some connection
happening here, like, how didthe the process evolve for you?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, I think it began with just pure ambition
originally in terms of thecompany.
I wanted our company to growand I wanted it to be a lot
bigger and more important thanit was when I took it over.
And so over time, one of thefirst things I discovered was I
(08:53):
got to stay out in front of mycompany at all times and provide
some sort of vision if we'regoing to go somewhere.
And you know, I was reallyyoung when I took over the
company, so I was learning someof these things on the fly and
sort of trying to craft how Iwas going to do what I wanted to
do with the ambition that I had, sort of thing, Because I saw a
(09:15):
lot of potential in our companyand it was already a really
good architectural firm basedhere in Southern California.
And so I think over time sort ofI guess the impetus or the
pressure I put on myself to tryto stay out in front, have a
vision, be able to tell peoplewhere we wanted to go, that idea
(09:35):
then was searching for ways tocommunicate that that would
resonate, and so I startedcoming up with these concepts
based on something I wasinspired by.
Sometimes it was just adaptinga concept that you know book
that I read, and we've all readlots of books, a lot of business
books, but how do you everreally apply that and make it
(09:57):
work for your company?
So that was part of it.
But then also part of it wasjust how do I conceptually
explain the idea to get us wherewe're going, like the visible
lifespan?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
That was a big one.
I have another question for you.
This is where you started.
You started with your approachand that came from your training
and how you wove that intowhere you're at today.
What is the role ofself-awareness for you?
You start the book that way,but I'm hearing it in your
(10:29):
language from the beginningwithout having identified it to
this point.
So can you speak a little biton the role of self-awareness
and how important that is inthis leadership model that
you've designed?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that sometimes
that comes from some sort ofmixture of self-doubt and
ambition, you know, and thenmaking mistakes where you feel
like an idiot, and so you know,you have to be able to learn and
accept you know yourshortcomings and decide if you
can overcome those or try toanyway, I think.
(11:00):
Also, I think one of the biggestthings for me was understanding
that there are people thatreally collaborative and good at
working together.
Um was a huge realization forme, I guess, and you know it's a
real thing, you know, I mean, Ialways say people have heard me
(11:42):
say it a million times we havea world-class executive team.
There are some Most of themhave been with us for many, many
years.
So you know, it's just thisvery special thing that we've
been able to put together thathas really fueled the leadership
ideas within our companyBecause, you know, everyone's
committed to the goal,everyone's committed to each
(12:03):
other, everyone builds oneveryone else's ideas.
You know, which is really kindof cool.
So you know, that was a big onefor us, I think, some of these
discoveries along the way andbeing willing to embrace those
sorts of things, Did they startworld-class?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Did you?
Did you?
No, really like, did you findworld-class people?
Or or was it part of even yourleadership style to kind of
unearth some of the excellence,or weave the weave, the goals of
being great, being working, youknow be great together.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
be great in the in the industry yeah, great being
working, you know being greattogether, being great in the
industry, yeah, so I mean Ithink that kind of like what
happened to me somebody sawsomething in me and developed it
and I had a great opportunity,and so we try to find people
that really so.
We try to find people thatreally have that ambition and
(13:04):
that drive and the ability towork together, I guess
collaborate and everybody needscoaching and mentoring, I guess
you know.
And so I think it's reallyabout having being very talented
, the people.
They were already extremelytalented and really awesome but
(13:25):
also brought that sort ofmindset and so finding people
over time that sort of fit, thatmold, I guess you know.
And when I say mold, it's not aspecific kind of a thing, it's
more about very talented, youknow, ambitious but
collaborative, you know, excitedabout the vision, and so you
(13:49):
know people have differentstrengths and you work with them
to develop those things for thebenefit of their own career and
in the company.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
So I want to go back to what you said about you know
your daughter having aconversation with you like dad
you should charge money or writea book.
But you know there's oftentimeswhen people that we don't even
expect are watching ourmovements or who we're bringing
together, how we do the workthat we're doing, what would you
say your daughter saw in inwhat you've created and how you
(14:25):
mentor, how, how you lead, likewhat, what was it Cause?
That's?
That's an interesting story.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I've helped a couple of her friends over time and
she's seen that and and you know, I guess there was some
conversation about that withsome of them that said, look,
you know he should be chargingfor this kind of stuff.
I can't believe you're justtalking to people for free and I
was like they're my daughter'sfriends, I mean, you know, so I
(14:53):
don't know.
And plus, Lauren is in my sonJames.
They both grew up experiencingthis growth of a company and you
know they got a lot of thosesame lectures themselves to work
on building a company.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know, but I don't know.
You know, obviously she'switnessed the whole thing being.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Our daughter would bring friends over and she would
say can they all takeStrengthsFinder?
I was like that, that costsmoney, like that we're not a
part of, of Gallup Um, but she,she knew that, you know, with
some of that information wecould, we could host some nice
conversation.
So we've, we've definitelydefinitely um invested and so I
(15:39):
just think it's a richcompliment, uh, testimony, a
testimony to your legacy as well, that your kids would recognize
that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Well, they're pretty great.
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's wonderful.
Yeah, larry, I have a questionabout one of the camera, with
Nathan included.
The personal well-being ofphysical, mental health is a big
part of who we are and it's avery large part of the practice
(16:13):
that we engage our clients withis bringing that side up.
I see you have a little like aside connection to financial
health.
I want to put that aside for asecond.
I want to have that as a secondquestion to this.
So can you speak to um theimportance to wellness and how
that plays into leadership fromyour perspective?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It's huge and it's the reason I put something in
there in the book and it wasagain.
It was um a, it was a lesson Itook to one of our leadership
meetings because that whenpeople are really well, first of
all in architecture, we tend towork long hours.
I mean it's just one of thoseprofessions that doesn't tend to
(16:56):
be an eight to five kind of aprofession.
And so, you know, as we'rebuilding a company and people
are hard driving and trying toreach the goals and all this
kind of stuff, people can getout of balance, do get out of
balance, and big time got out ofbalance.
So again, it was another one ofmy you know personal hard
(17:20):
learning lessons that you knowyou have to take care of
yourself, you have to balanceyourself, you have to take time
away from work, you have toexercise, you have to eat right,
you have to take your vitaminsor whatever, go to the doctor,
do all these things that areeverybody knows, but people make
excuses, uh, or you know weshould not always prioritize, I
(17:42):
guess, guess, as they ought to,and so it made that kind of a
big deal around our company thatI really want everyone to take
care of themselves and make surethey go on vacation and do all
these things Our doctors andpersonal trainers and our mom
have told us.
Our whole life Personaltrainers and our mom have told
(18:04):
us our whole life.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Was there a moment many of us in this wellness
journey come to someintersection on that journey
where we realize I need to makea different choice.
Was there a moment like that inyour life where you realized
(18:28):
that you were at an intersectionand an imbalance in how?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
you're taking care of yourself and pursuing your
career.
What was that moment like?
Yeah, it manifested in, um, youknow, stress and anxiety and
you know, feeling very good.
Well then, all that sort ofstuff.
Luckily, you know, my wifeSandy, helped me figure this out
(18:49):
and, you know, over a longperiod of time, I made little
adjustments to my life.
I didn't do it all at once andlayered in different aspects of,
you know, eating better,sleeping better, taking time off
or finding something else to do, you know, be or whatever,
(19:12):
working out, eating better, youknow all this kind of stuff and
so, um, but yeah, it was alittle at a time.
I think implementation was alittle time until I really kind
of dialed it in.
And, you know, I think shedeserves a lot of credit for
helping guide me through allthat stuff is that where the art
(19:34):
came from?
well, yeah, well, okay, so theart, it's an interesting thing.
Yeah mean, I've been an artistmy whole life.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But I never showed work.
You know, it wasn't that sortof thing I would.
I've always had a sketchbookand I've always had projects
that I've worked exit from thefirm and I wanted I didn't want
to be one of these guys that Idon't retire and then I start
trying to play golf and then I'mmore bored and I don't know
what to do with myself when I'mstressed out.
(20:19):
So I said, okay, I'm gonna tryto have an art career, and so I
started showing my art and thiswas about 2011 maybe, or
something, I don't know.
The whole idea was well, I'llstart screwing around with this
a little bit and by the time I,you know, ramped down here at
when Malcolm Moe maybe I'veramped that up a little bit a
(20:40):
little bit Issue is that it itramped up like really steeply,
really fast, way faster than Ithought it would, which you know
it was awesome, but I didn'treally plan that it's.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And so I want to ask a question to reverse engineer
that, once you started dabblinginto and trying to magnify the
artistic side of who you are,was there a lesson that you
discovered in that artisticjourney that you directly
applied to leadership?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I was really lucky.
I think I started pursuing thiswhen I did, because it
developed into this thing I say,which is, being an artist made
me a better CEO and being a CEOmade me a better artist.
Yeah, the freedom, and this iswhat I always say about the art,
(21:32):
because there's so much freedomin art, it can be anything you
want.
I mean, there literally are noparameters.
See my kids are you know, it'spretty freeing to your the.
Your brain thinks right, and sowhen you are able to express
that in your art, you start tolearn rule.
(21:52):
You start bringing a bachelorcompany and like, why are all
these constraints on all this?
I mean, obviously, when you'redesigning a building, there's
all kinds of constraints.
You know right, right, why itconstraints structural can say,
code, you know all kinds ofthings and that's why it should
be.
There's still creativity thatyou can find within those
parameters.
The idea was all right.
(22:15):
What are we thinking about inour company that is unnecessary
because we're not being creativeenough?
What are we thinking about interms of developing our team
that can be even more awesome?
That we're not even thinkingabout because we put some sort
of guardrails on it that maybeare artificial, you know, or
just because you know that'swhat we do or that's what we're
(22:37):
used to doing, or whatever it is.
So how can we break that moldand think more creatively, bring
creativity to leadership, bringcreativity to our strategy to
build the company?
And so you know that sort ofrealization and a lot of
creative in our company.
And so you know, an architectis always trying to be creative,
(23:00):
but building a company bringingstrategy, strategy building up
your people.
You know that's not always asso creative.
It's sort of like stuff youlearn in a business book or
getting an mba.
That it's not creative, atleast the way I see it.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah so about it.
So, with that side of yourjourney, did did you find
yourself then inviting otherpeople into some type of
artistic expression outside ofarchitecture, or was this more
of how you chose to learn moreabout yourself?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I would say it started as trying to figure out
myself, turned it into, yes,trying to encourage people to
have a creative outlet, whateverthat may be, because I think
it's so valuable.
You know it's unbelievable, youknow, because we have, you know
(24:03):
, strength slanders We've usedthat a lot in our company.
Okay, well, I don't.
You know strength landers We'veused that a lot in our company.
Good, well, I don't.
I mean, I think it's a good tooland it's good to understand how
each other works in a companyso you can collaborate more
effectively and all that kind ofthing.
I also think it shows you sortof some guideposts for if you
(24:25):
want to develop another part ofyourself, it kind of exposes
that too.
So that's what I've tried toactually emphasize.
It's like, okay, you're greatat that, but if you want to
really put up your brain alittle bit whole brain thinking
is a thing I say a lot, wholebrain drinking and maybe you
(24:47):
ought to try something, whetherit's a hobby or artistic pursuit
or something outside of work,or even if it's inside work,
look for opportunities todevelop that muscle over here,
because I think that's an areathat people don't really spend a
lot of time thinking Correct.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
You are T tapping into our approach.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yes, you are tapping into our approach as well, as
well, simplistically, my life'swork.
So thank you.
So I just want to make anobservation and then ask a
follow up question.
Just want to make anobservation and then ask a
follow-up question.
Whenever an organization uses atool whatever that tool of
(25:30):
choice is an assessment, apsychometric to highlight,
emphasize what someone's reallygood at, re-emphasizing that
over and over again can createsome very interesting patterning
patterning of how peoplebelieve in themselves, how they
do their work.
And there's nothing wrong withbehavioral patterns, because the
brain loves patterns andpredictability and you know
(25:51):
peace, for that matter, overrotating on that.
You create these deep, ruttedpatterns of behavior that are
very hard to break out of andlimits creativity, innovation
and the willingness tocollaborate, because you see
other people as deeply patternedas well.
So to encourage so like whatyou're doing, larry, to
encourage people to step awayfrom some of the clear
(26:14):
indicators of here's what you'restrong at, to invest in
something else, I think isextremely healthy for how people
engage the natural flow oftheir brain, because there's
different ways we can regulatehow we show up, and any type of
exercise that we do to open ourlives up to creativity and
innovation can only help usunderstand ourselves better,
(26:38):
give ourselves a break fromover-patterning our lives and
being willing to connect withpeople who have much different
approaches, because we realizethat that may help us as well.
Do you feel you're nodding?
You're nodding your head?
What's the agreement?
What are you agreeing?
Like what?
What stands out from my littleexample.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Well, concept, you know, I think that you know it
goes to.
Really, I learned from Leonardoda Vinci right being curious
about a lot of things, not justwhat you're naturally good at.
The endless curiosity and theinvestigation of something new
(27:21):
that maybe you're not ascomfortable with, and developing
at least a little bit ofknowledge or skill around.
That thing is incredible.
I mean, you know Leonardo's inmy book and I talk about
Leonardo all the time because Ijust think he's the greatest
genius that ever lived and allthis kind of stuff and um you
(27:41):
know, that's how I think aboutit, so, and I've just, I guess,
personally felt such benefitfrom developing skills that
maybe weren't my natural ones.
Not that it's ever going to bemaybe my biggest strength, but
now I'm at least better than Iwas at that thing or whatever,
or my understanding of that kindof behavior or whatever it is
(28:06):
or that thing, and so I justthink it's great.
I just think it's this idea ofcontinuous learning your whole
life.
Never stop learning.
You learn when you go throughpain, a mistake, but you also
can learn just by pushingyourself into something that
maybe you haven't experiencedbefore.
So I have this thing.
(28:27):
I was looking, I think they'rehere right now.
I think they're at my office.
Anyway, I made this thing outof Tinker twice.
So I have this.
You know the round hub, youstick.
You know the round hub and youstick.
You know the Tinker Toys inthem.
So to demonstrate this idea, onetime everybody take long and
(28:50):
short Tinker Toys and stick themin in a circle.
Think about the best thing thatyou do and put the longest one
in there.
Think about something you'renot very good at and put a short
one in there, and then just putit short ones and then look at
it and kind of spin, you know,out of balance it is, and you
(29:13):
know.
And then I said okay, in theideal world, if you were
leonardo and you had whole brainthinking and you got better at
every single thing across thespan of your whole life, don't
fall in with the long purpleones, you know, and then and see
how balanced it is and thenhold them up.
You know this, this could be meif I work at it, and this is
(29:38):
where I think I am right now,you know.
You know, it was kind of a coollittle demonstration.
I've used those Tinker Toys fora long time years, just to
demonstrate this point.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Okay, I have a Leonardo da Vinci question for
you.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Is it a pop quiz or is it a?
No, it's not a pop quiz.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
It's going to be directed directly at Larry.
So, with Leonardo da Vinci, Isee or understand him as, like
you said, a genius who'sapplying himself in a
multidisciplinary way where he'snot only studying maybe some of
the artistic renderings thatmay pop into our mind, but
(30:16):
everything from human anatomy toa study of water, to how we
approach landscapes, tomechanism, to weapons of warfare
, like there's just all thesedifferent elements that he's
dabbling in, and I naturallyassume that all of his skill is
interplaying with each one ofthose modalities.
Is that a way that you'reapproaching life, that you're
(30:38):
seeing yourself?
Well, I'm going to invest in mystudy of water for a decade.
That's going to reallyinfluence how I think in other
areas, like, do you have thatdistinctive approach to your
practice?
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, first of all, I'd say everything he did was
integrated into you know, as hediscovered something, he would
find a way that that related toyou know, something else that he
was doing.
All he always did that, and sothis sort of synthesizing
different types of learning anddifferent ideas is what he was
(31:09):
so great at, sounds such a greatexample for what I'm talking
about.
Yeah, so you know, I think, asI, as you discover something and
it inspires you and you figureout a way to why it, then you
teach it.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Okay, I got another question.
Go ahead, nathan.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Well, so I you know, in your, in your book, you talk
about integrating, where to go,integrating creativity layer by
layer, and I'm I'm wanting toget really specific and
practical, like how, how mightyou coach someone, or maybe what
would be your first step withworking with a young executive
or a young leader on this ideaof, you know, bringing more
(31:52):
creativity to all aspects oftheir life, to arrive at, you
know, better solutions?
What would be the first step inhelping someone do that, other
than just say, you know, maybego look for a better hobby, or
something Like did you havespecific ways that you would get
people to start thinking morecreative and all these different
layers and aspects of theirlife?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You know when it came .
When it comes to the company,you know sort of helping people,
um, so we're all headed onedirection.
You know I would use thesedifferent lessons or you know
inspirations I guess that Ifound related to how we were
going to build the company and,um, and sort of explain it to
(32:36):
them and get to getting them tothink about it sort of.
I think was teaching them howto do that a little bit.
Sure, I'm mentoring somebodyone-on-one.
I like to find out, you know,obviously, what they're feeling
(32:58):
good about, what they'restruggling with, and and try to
help maybe a little morespecifically guide them in that
way to take inspiration fromsomething that maybe they're
going to get better at.
It sort of depends.
But you know, I think a lot ofthe concepts that are in the
book are based on yeah stuff Idiscovered you know, Roadrunner
(33:20):
and a coyote is in there andSlombardi Slombardi's in there.
Yeah, no, and SlombardiSlombardi's in there now, and
you know the visible lightspectrum.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
So there's all kinds of stuff in there that I, you
know, or you know Home Depotversus Home Ace, you know
developing a strategy and who weare.
So there's a lot of differentkinds of concepts in there, and
that's on purpose, because ityou think about our business as
you apply to our business,different, little different way.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Right.
Do you think sometimes peopleare too compartmentalized and
they don't take oh, I, I loveplaying music or I love doing
these other things, and theydon't bring those different
disciplines or hobbies orwhatever you want to call them
into their roles.
They keep them at arm's lengthand so they can't get any
benefit from that.
(34:13):
Have you seen that a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know, I think a lot of people do have great
other interests outside of work,and I think it always, whether
they realize it or not, orwhether it's on purpose or not.
I definitely think it.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I don't know if they realize it.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know, and my idea was bring it to the forefront
and think about it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Right, you know on purpose kind of you know, which
in and of itself might be aunique thing.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Larry, we spend a lot of our time working with
executive leadership teams andall the unique challenges that
they face, and I'm seeing one ofyour chapter headings as
speaking to achieving daringlong-range goals and I believe
like this is well.
We find that long-rangeplanning is.
It seems to be this ongoingchallenge, whether this
executive team's long range isFriday or a year from now.
(35:08):
You know, whatever that daringpart of it is, you know human
behavior says no to daring.
Why did the daring long rangegoal make it into your book?
Like, what's the importantmessage that you want to make
sure people understand about thenecessity of making daring long
range goals?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Because I love this so much.
It's been so awesome for ourfirm in building our company.
Let me just frame it a littlebit.
Absolutely, 30 years ago Idecided that, hey, you know we
need to write a business planbecause our company had never
had one before.
You know what are we trying todo next year?
(35:50):
You know never done it.
And so you know we spent a fewyears writing a plan, keeping it
tight so it wasn't a binderfull of stuff setting out some
goals, you know, and having eachdepartment or group or office,
you know, set some goals thatconsisted with what the company
(36:16):
wanted.
So we got pretty good at that.
We were.
You know we're putting instretch goals and hitting them
and doing a pretty good job.
And then, you know, we'reputting in stretch goals and
hitting them and doing a prettygood job.
And then, you know, they said,look, we have to write a, you
know, more of a long term goal.
And so we had gone through agrowth spurt and we were the
biggest we'd ever been.
(36:36):
You know, at that point I thinkwe'd build $20 million in a
year.
And I said, ok, now what are wegoing to do in a year?
And I said, okay, now what arewe going to do?
We're feeling good aboutourselves because we had hit
this goal and you know we'reever been, and all this kind of
stuff.
Okay, I think we should doublethe size of the company, you
(36:57):
know.
And so we, the executives,together and said what do you
think about this idea?
This is just an idea.
What do you?
You know there's nothing elseto that.
I mean, do we want to stay thesame?
Do we want to get better?
Do we want to get bigger?
Are clients asking us to goother places?
What do you want to do?
And so the executive team gotreally excited about this.
(37:20):
And, um, anyway, it was 2002.
So we decided to write afive-year plan to double the
size of the company 2007.
So, we called it our 007 planand it was awesome.
And everybody got really excited.
Yeah, it was great.
(37:40):
And so, you know, we set out tosay, okay, what kind of goals
are we going to set indiversifications, where are we
going to have offices, and allthese kind of things.
And again, we kept it prettytight.
You know, everybody, everydepartment could only have one
page and we set out to do this.
And then the cool thing this isthe cool thing about a long-term
(38:03):
plan First of all, it has to bea bigger vision.
You can't get in the weeds ofthis thing, right.
Right, then you can start tosee your yearly plan, which we
were already pretty good at as astep towards that goal.
So now, when you write thisplan, you say, okay, we're
trying to hit this in five years.
So what do we got to do thisyear to make sure that and that
(38:26):
is so powerful.
We hit the goal a year earlyand then we went way past the
goal and ended up at 50 millionby 07.
And we had a big celebration,company wide, and it was awesome
and I gave everybody I thinkGray died, we had iPods at the
time.
You know that was a big deal.
It was a cool thing for ourcompany, you know, and it was
(38:48):
really uh.
He galvanized everybody towardsthis goal and it was amazing
and we did it again.
You know, we went through therecession great recession.
We came back out and we wroteanother one for 2020 and we hit
that goal, you know, at ahundred million goal.
You know the a hundred milliontwo years early in 2018.
And so you know it's a lessonin yeah, if you, if you write it
(39:10):
and you see the vision and youexecute on your annual goals,
basically you can do.
And if you didn't have thatplan, god knows what would
happen.
You'd just be doing whateveryou're doing.
And so then I wrote this thingcalled Ultimate, where we're
(39:32):
Welcome.
So this was kind of veryconceptual.
Okay, if we put an office inevery market where we think we
should be, our clients need usand we build out every service
line that we offer and have amarket share that we should have
in every office, and we haveall our diversifications built
(39:55):
in.
I mean runway's tremendous andgrowth is, and so we have a lot
of conceptual stuff and a mapand a revenue and or chart and
all this stuff.
And I distilled it.
You know, on one page it's like, okay, now what our five-year
goals are, a step towards thisthing.
And of course, we smashed rightthrough my oh, my god, we'll
(40:20):
never.
You know, this is like a dream.
While we already smashedthrough, we've had to rewrite
Ultimate, where Malcolm haddoubled.
I'm a huge believer in this Huge, huge believer in these
long-term goals.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Yeah, and finding people ambitious enough or open
enough to even make it happen.
Right my question?
Can I ask a question?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
You may?
Yes, please, I don't needpermission from you.
I don't need permission fromyou, but I would interrupt your
other one.
There we go.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Oftentimes, when we write things or when we are
presenting something, we leaveit and there's something that
speaks back to us, and so myquestion to you is, as you've
written this book and arepromoting it and getting it in
people's hands and talking aboutsome of the layers of layered
(41:12):
leadership, for you, what hasbeen a helpful sentiment that
you have found is reminding youof why you did this work, why
you are both the art and scienceof leadership.
What is it that maybe speaksback to you, even though it's
(41:33):
your own words?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah Well, first of all, this book has been a giant
learning experience for me.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
We know.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, I mean crazy, I never.
Well, first of all, it's likeanything.
When I was five years old, Iwanted to be an architect and I
knew it, but I had no clue whatit was going to be.
Right Turns out, I loved it,wrote the book, no, what really
was going to evolve.
You know, I've learned, andthen just getting it down, you
(42:12):
know, when I I think the coolthing, it was just Monday A box
of them showed up.
It's not out yet, but I got myadvanced copies and this is the
first time I've actually had thebook March 4th, right, march
4th, it comes out.
Yeah, I've had it in my hand.
I'm looking at it, it's like,oh my God, this is so cool.
You know and I designed thebook too my publisher allowed me
(42:34):
to design the cover and thefont and all the interior of the
book.
It's just, you know, it's ahuge accomplishment, and what
something.
That's actually much more of anaccomplishment than I even
thought it would be.
It was a lot of work, and it'sstill a lot of work, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
So what were the emotions when you were holding
it?
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Penis yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
From being done.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm a little bit.
I'm kind of proud of myself.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
Yes, good, yes good.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I think the other thing about it is people who
have read it given me suchamazing feedback and there's
interest in it and people writebooks you know that's right, I
had no idea, and so my I have avery good friend who is an icon
(43:33):
in publishing and she issemi-retired now, so she didn't
help me formally with the bookat all, but she gave me some
advice and it was very helpful,and she also introduced me to my
ghostwriter, which was awesome,oh nice.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
What was her advice?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
It had to be differentiated.
You have to have adifferentiator.
She goes what's your idea?
And so you know she your idea.
And so you know she's very.
You know she's been inpublishing a long time, so she,
you know, doesn't mince wordsand doesn't want to give anybody
false hope.
So she said yeah, and so I toldher my idea and I sent her my
(44:16):
outline and, um, she was very,which was great, because if she
wasn't, I wouldn't have writtenthe book.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Congratulations.
Yeah, I was going to say onething I like about the book is
all the little like the graphicsand the notes and the little
examples and stuff that I don'tsee in a lot of leadership books
.
Um, even the fact that you haveI'm trying to find it here in
the digital copy um, thehandwritten notes that you kept
(44:49):
that you had sent to employeesor mentees or whatever.
I just thought that was such acool, uh, a cool touch that you
don't again I haven't seen.
I've read a lot of leadershipbooks.
I don't haven't seen somethingkind of.
It felt very personal, I guessis where I'm going.
Like it felt like a personalstory, very much of like I'm
(45:10):
gathering all this 20, 30,whatever years worth of info and
I'm I'm packaging it up for you.
So I I think it will be wellreceived, especially from people
that read leadership books andthey want something not quite as
boring.
So thank you for putting thisinto the world.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
No, I really appreciate that, and that was
kind of a goal is to not make itsome long tool lecturing
somebody about.
I just wanted to show some,wanted it to be interesting,
with a lot of graphics and myart in there, as you can see.
Yeah, and yeah, the notes.
Okay, we've done gosh.
(45:44):
I don't do it anymore.
I delegated that out and when Iwas doing that, when I was CEO,
I did it for many, many yearsactually, and we still do it.
I swiped that from Jack Welchhe, he, it was in his book and I
swiped that one.
It was.
It really inspired me and I'veused that for many, many years
(46:05):
yeah, well, it's interesting,just even on a practical level.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Obviously you would want to make it personal to
whoever you're sending it to,but just like oh, okay, this is
here they are.
This is an interesting like.
How would I send, like, ifsomeone's not naturally good at
sending those types of notes topeople, it's like oh, this is, I
don't know, maybe a goodexample of like how you would
send a note to a leader thatyou're wanting to connect with.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
So yeah, and I have to say I was pretty clumsy at it
when I started Of course, butthat's, that's the point of like
, yeah, you practice, you keepdoing it, you get better you
iterate and all that stuff,Larry.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
anything else we just have appreciated hearing your
stories, hearing the way thatyou're getting your heart really
not just your mind but yourheart into the world.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Geez, I don't know.
You guys had great questionsand really different questions
which is really cool and I lovedit.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I'm glad because asking questions is our job.
Well, larry, I want to thankyou and thank you for your time.
I really appreciate speaking topeople that have not only a
seasoned expertise but a livedexperience that expands beyond
that, and so it's clear to methat you have a lived experience
that expands broader than yourlived expertise.
(47:28):
So those two things comingtogether, I really believe,
contributes to the geniusperspective that you bring on
reality, and anything that wecan do to amplify voices like
that I believe is helpful,because I think people feel
threatened to go on the broaderlife's journey when they'd
rather spend their time in thenarrow, and sometimes expertise
(47:48):
can be really, really narrow andcan lead to a life that doesn't
explore, maybe limits,curiosity and creativity.
So I hear all those themes inyou curiosity, creativity,
exploration, a courage tojourney onto a landscape that
most people don't journey.
So I want to thank you for yourvoice and your time in being
(48:11):
brave to write a book so thankyou, larry.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Thank you so much.
We really appreciate itAbsolutely.
Wow, what a great conversationwith Larry Armstrong.
Larry, thank you so much fordoing this.
His layered leadership approachchallenges us to, I think, just
think differently aboutleadership, by embracing
creativity, self-awareness andlong-term vision as key
(48:38):
components of success.
So one big takeaway that I hadis that leadership isn't about
having all the answers.
It's really about this idea ofcontinuous or whole brain
learning, as he talked about.
It's about adapting andbringing diverse layers of
experience into your role as aleader.
So here's one action item,something that you can do, maybe
(48:59):
this week.
Just take one step to engageyour creative side, whether
that's journaling, drawing,playing music or exploring just
a new idea.
See how it influences yourleadership perspective.
See how it maybe changes theway that you approach problems
or deal with setbacks, or evenjust looks for solutions in
(49:20):
different areas.
Thank you for listening to theLeadership Vision Podcast, our
show helping you build positiveteam culture, for more resources
about developing your team,about developing your strengths
or about creating a positiveteam environment wherever you
are.
Please click the link in theshow notes or visit us on the
web atleadershipvisionconsultingcom.
We've also got links toeverything we talked about here,
(49:43):
including Larry's new book,layer Leadership, in the link,
in the bio, in the company blogpost, in the show notes,
wherever you want to find it,also on social media.
My name is Nathan Freeberg and,on behalf of our entire team,
thanks for listening.
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