November 25, 2024 • 52 mins
What if you could transform your life through the simple act of putting one foot in front of the other? On today's show I am joined by Nolan John, an ultra runner who swapped the Midwest lanes of Chicago for the sunlit trails of Austin, Texas. From traversing through the wild landscapes of The Speed Project (an ultra marathon relay race), Nolan shares his exhilarating journey of personal growth through ultra-endurance running. Together, we unpack the chaos and creativity that comes with unsanctioned racing, where every step is a chance to run towards better versions of ourselves.
My story runs parallel to Nolan’s, as I recount a personal path to finding sobriety through running. Nolan shares with me his own path to getting sober with a heartbreaking loss of friends and the dark days he had following a near death motorcycle accident.
Navigating sobriety's challenges in a world filled with temptations becomes a shared theme as we discuss the strength in replacing harmful habits with healthier ones. From facing societal pressures to embracing imperfections, we reflect on how running and sobriety intertwine, offering paths to self-discovery and growth. We also emphasize the courage it takes to redefine oneself and the ongoing commitment to a better, more authentic life. Join us on this journey as we uncover the transformative power of running.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is the Lucy Beatrix podcast.
Today we are joined by NolanJohn, a Midwest-born,
austin-based ultra runner andsober human who has appeared in
several running publications.
Nolan is very open about theirrecovery from addiction and how
that relates to finding movement.
We're going to get into all ofthat and explore our common
(00:27):
denominators on the topic ofrunning and recovery.
So, without furtherintroduction, welcome to the
show, nolan.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you grew up in Chicago?
Yeah, midwesterner.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And now you live in Austin.
What brought you to Texas?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Kind of just wanted to get out of the city.
I feel like you don't reallygrow up as a human if you just
stay home your whole life.
So I just wanted to get alittle uncomfortable and put
myself in a space that I knewnobody knew nothing about.
And so here I am.
How old were you when you movedhere, a space that I knew,
nobody knew nothing about, andso here I am.
How old were you when you movedhere?
(01:07):
24.
I mean, this was in April, so Ijust moved here.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, so recently.
So you, kind of like, left yourhometown to start over fresh,
and a few months ago you ran theSpeed Project in France.
Yeah, from to Chamonix.
From where, what was it?
No, so it France to Chamonix.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
From where?
No, so it was from Chamonix toMarseille.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
From Chamonix to Marseille, which is an ultra
endurance relay race.
That happens Usually.
The Speed Project that a lot ofpeople know is the Las Vegas or
Los Angeles-Las Vegas race,which you also did.
Yeah, but what was the FranceSpeed project like?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
insane.
It was like yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Chamonix is the most like beautiful spot in this that
I've been to.
Like the world, like it's justinsane.
Had you been to Europe before?
So this was your first timegoing to Europe was to run this
ultra, pretty, pretty spoiled.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Now I don't think anywhere else in europe is going
to beat chamonix.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, I feel like that kind of experience, of
experience or going to a newplace by foot, like running a
distance really, uh, puts adifferent perspective on a new
location yeah and um, I feltthat way when I did los angeles
to vegas a couple years ago.
Uh, with the satisfied teamwhere I ran from did the relay
from la to vegas and uh, yeah, Ijust feel like you see so much
(02:29):
that you don't see when you'rejust in a car whizzing past all
these like little uh gasstations and stuff yeah so how
did you prepare for uh, for thatspeed product in france?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
honestly it was.
I didn't do too much prep.
I mean I think I would.
So my running journey kind ofjust started.
My ultra running journeystarted in January of this year,
um, which was like my first 50kum in, I think, little Rock, a
little bit outside Little Rock,arkansas, um.
(03:00):
And so from there on I've justbeen continuing running.
There wasn't any specific liketraining plan for it.
I've just been running a lot.
I don't really have a trainingplan.
I love that I just run.
I think I could have done alittle bit more like speed work,
(03:20):
because we did half milerepeats the entire way.
So the team is five people orthere was about seven of us, um,
in our team.
We kind of split it up a littlebit differently.
We had, like technically, afreestyle team, not an og team,
so we had a little bit morepeople, but like our van would
(03:40):
run and then our second vanwould run, so we would have a
little bit of a chance to breakdowntime between the relay.
Yeah, so um, but the entire timewe were running like half mile
repeats, which was like for, Ithink, 30, 31 hours, um, and so
that was I didn't train.
Yeah, I didn't train for that,I think.
Uh, I was definitely holdingthem down a little bit, but
(04:02):
other than that, it was that'sawesome yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, I think that the speed project they break it
up.
Every team does it their ownway.
There's no rules, it's anunsanctioned wild relay and I
love how the there's differenttraining methods or different
racing methods of just justgoing and doing it in different
ways.
I did one where, um, during thepandemic, there was a DIY speed
project where my team decidedyou could do it anywhere,
(04:27):
because it was like you couldn'tdo the original speed project
because it was shut down fromthe pandemic.
So I did all of my legs on atrack and so I did every fifth
hour I did an hour on the trackand so that was like a lot
longer of running at once thanbreaking up into half miles, but
it wasn't as fast or efficientbecause you can't really get
(04:48):
your legs cooking like quickly.
How fast were you guys goingfor this half mile?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think we were like averaging around like 640, 650s,
but like yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
For 31 hours.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That's awesome.
Do you know how many miles youended up running during that
race?
Total?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I think it got about like maybe 40 to 50.
Yeah, um, it was kind of hardbecause, like I didn't want to
break down every single halfmile, yeah.
So like eventually, I countedout like the Strava, yeah, but
it was just too much yeah, Itotally know, um, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So our one of our common denominators right off
the bat was that someone on yourteam is the other half of the
museum of distance running,which is the apparel company
that I'm affiliated with, andJared was telling me all about
this and how wild it was, and Iwas watching all of his updates.
But, yeah, it looked like a lotof fun it was but there's
(05:42):
always chaos that comes withthese kinds of races.
Oh yeah, I definitely bondedwith him over that because, uh,
it just you know, there's a lotof moving parts, there's a lot
of organization, there's a lotof disorganization.
It's just like how it has to beif you're doing the speed
project in any capacity.
Um, how did you approachfueling for that?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
uh well, we I nobody knew fire, I nobody on my team
knew French, so, like everythingwas my entire, like the only
thing I ate was just like breadand coffee the entire, not
really the entire.
There was no theory.
So I am not someone that youshould ask about any sort of
nutrition or anything like that,because we, just we ate what we
(06:26):
could understand.
And I think, like everythingelse, we got into a supermarket
and it was just like, yeah, wedidn't really eat, it was, yeah,
it was.
It was very disorganized, but Iwould do it again, just because
it was just like.
I mean, it's an experience.
And I think, like you know, youtake, take like Martins at the
beginning and you're like, allright, I'm going to get on top
(06:47):
of it, but then, like threehours in, you're just like you
want food anything, literally.
that's just the beauty.
Of ultra is like you could eatwhatever the hell you want you
could eat whatever the hell youwant and as long as you're
running like whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, that, I love that.
Like kind of like the exactopposite of what somebody might
have prescribed, of like, oh,take this gel and do this, just
eat what you can find.
You're in a different countryBread and coffee it is.
But yeah, I love that.
I think that's kind of amazing.
I did it.
When I did it, uh, from LA toVegas, I had packed a bunch of
sweet potatoes and I just waslike eating sweet potatoes in
(07:20):
the sprinter van and it was likethat worked for me.
So it's what I did.
But, um, yeah, so how would youcompare the french speed
product to the vegas speed, likethe original speed project?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
um, obviously, like just the mountains, all the just
, france is just so much, Ithink, so much more pretty, but
I would say they were bothchaotic.
Like they're both chaotic andbeautiful in its own way, like I
think the biggest differencewould just be you know, we had I
(07:58):
had a lot more room, we had afull RV with LA to LV, but we
had, like just some tiny Hyundaithat we were like all crammed
in which sucked, but that's hardwhen your legs are hurting and
then you have to get into alittle seat.
Everybody's cramping up.
Like you know, you only reallyhave like maybe six, seven
minutes of rest really beforeyour your next leg out.
(08:18):
So everybody's cramping,everybody's like pulling things
yeah.
It's crying, saying all of eachother yeah, I wouldn't really
tell much of a of a difference.
It was both just yeah wild hellfor for 31 hours.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I think you kind of your body.
The thing in the speed projecttaught me was your body just
adjusts and learns how to beextremely uncomfortable for a
long period of time and then itteaches you, at least from my
experience, like later in lifewhen I had other things going on
where I had to stay up allnight for some job or something
or travel really far for work, Iwas able to just go well, I'm
(08:52):
not running all these miles andlike it, like it reconditions
you to think you can do thingsthat are way harder because you
did the speed project.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So it like recalibrates what your pain,
tolerance in life is right um,which I think is awesome, like
you can reference it like well,I did that, you know, and you,
in your case, you did speedproject twice, so and it wasn't
within one year, you did twospeed projects yeah, so I yeah,
I was with my chicago crew forla to lv, shout out, run too
hard.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And then we I was able to.
Once I moved here.
I moved here to Austin rightafter LA to LV, and then I met,
just like some people here, andwe were able to I was on Gordon.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, gordon, yes, oh , cool.
Yeah, that was a wild crew ofpeople too, which I think is
awesome.
Yeah, yeah, gordon's anotherMuseum of Distance Running
common denominator between us.
Yeah, gordon's another Museumof Distance Running common
denominator between us.
So I want to get into the mainthing that I think you and I
have in common, which is that weboth have struggled with
(09:53):
addiction and used running as,like this way to distance
ourselves from who we were inour like not so great days.
So if you don't mind opening upabout what that looks like for
you and how you found runningand like how that kind of those
two worlds collided, for you aseries of craziness in my life.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
In 2020.
I lost, um, three of my bestfriends, all to different things
, one to gun violence.
And then, right after I lost mybest friend, gary, uh, I got
into a motorcycle accident,broke my leg and lost a testicle
, and so I was just likebedridden, just lost three
friends, just super, superdepressed, um, and I think
(10:48):
that's when I was just likedrinking heavy, taking anything
I can get my hands on honestly,and, man, I was just like sick
of it.
I think I got to a very lowpoint where I was just like this
sucks.
I started going to therapy alittle bit.
This sucks, um, I started goingto therapy a little bit, um,
(11:12):
but then, like, once, my fatherlost his, like, um, his
insurance, I got, I kind of got,you know, cut off too, and so
that's when I just startedpicking up running, cause I had
always, like, enjoyed running,going on a run but, I, was never
really considered.
I wouldn't call myself a runner,I would just like run two miles
as fast as I could, um, and belike, oh, that felt good, um,
and so I just picked up runningagain and was just like, all
(11:32):
right, let me, let me try thisout.
And, um, kind of surroundedmyself, got into a run club in
Chicago and that made it just somuch easier because I was like
meeting people and it was like asolid community.
It was a solid run club and, uh, it kind of just slowly started
getting the ball rolling and Ijust kind of changed addictions
(11:53):
a little bit.
Um, but I was still during thattime I was, you know, still
drinking, still doing a lot ofcoke and just anything I could
again get my hands on.
And then it wasn't until maybea month before my first marathon
, I was like, all right, let mejust try to go sober, just to
kind of prep for this.
And I did.
(12:16):
I was sober for the whole monthof October and I think it was
October 2023 before ChicagoMarathon.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And Chicago was your first marathon.
Yeah, so what?
You signed up for that race.
How far before the actual eventto begin to prepare?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I signed up for it right after, I think, the half
marathon, so I ran the halfmarathon.
I ran like Shamrock Shufflehalf marathon and just started
like going up in distance yeah,um, okay, I'm ready for a
marathon.
Yeah, I go for it I was like,let me just train for it.
Like I think that's the bestway to do is just put something
on your list and just train forit um.
(12:55):
And so a month prior I was justsober and finished the race.
But before I finished the race,I booked this trip to go to
dominican republic and was likealready planning on like going
to drink and like having a goodtime, like I worked my ass off
for this, like marathon.
I like I deserve this trip, areward.
Yes, and so I finished themarathon.
(13:17):
It was great, I loved it.
And then all of a sudden, I goto the Dominican Republic and
I'm at an all-inclusive resort.
Everybody's drinking liketerrible liquor.
It's just like a wholedifferent environment.
But because I trained my brainthat whole month prior and I was
just like eating better, I wasjust choosing a healthier
lifestyle, I went to this resortand I was just like ew.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, repulsed by it.
Yeah, isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it just like, was just so disgusted I couldn't
have, I couldn't enjoy anythingLike.
It was like terrible.
And so I was like drinking alittle bit there and I was just
like man, I don't like this, Idon't like this, I don't like uh
once I got back to Chicago, Iwas like I think I had like two
more weekends where I was justdrinking.
I was like well, why am I doingthis?
(14:03):
Why am I doing this?
It just didn't align, Um, and Ithink what was the very like
the time I went sober, I haddone some Coke and just the
hangover was awful, and I thinkthat was the the thing that
kickstarted my sobriety, where Iwas like all right, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I'm done.
So um, what when?
How old were you when youstarted using substances and got
into that stuff?
When was the first time youpicked up or your first drink 13
.
13?
Yeah, in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Was it your friends, or how did you find or get into
that stuff?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
My friend's stepfather had a bunch of oxys
and hydros and Zans and I'mpretty sure I don't know what he
was doing with them, but we, wefound them and we just we
weren't even drinking at thattime but we were like let's do
Xanax because at that time itwas so influenced with, like
(15:02):
music yeah, it's all over music.
So that's how you're likeraised in in that, like
SoundCloud Zan era little Zan,the rapper it was like that type
of like little peep influence,and so that's all they would rap
about.
And so we're like all right,let's do it.
And so me, my friend, I was abad influence and I influenced
(15:23):
him to do it with me, and sofrom there I kind of just
started to get.
I actually just went super hard,instead of starting with
alcohol and weed you wentstraight to the heart straight
to the pills and like that wassomething I was able to somewhat
get out of my system by likesophomore year, junior year,
high school, um, and then Istarted picking up just like
(15:48):
alcohol and I think, um withalcohol.
A couple years, alcohol.
Then came the coke yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So, um, something that I always wonder about
nowadays because, like I'm olderthan you I think by what's your
25 or 24 I'm 35, so I'm adifferent generation and I hear
the stuff about pills and stuffand that wasn't really I'm sure
it existed, but like I'm, I'mold school, like we, just I just
drank and you know there waslike people had weed around.
But nowadays there's just somuch availability or
(16:17):
accessibility to, toprescription pills and stuff
that are so addictive and sostrong.
But the thing that really makesme wonder is the with coke and
cocaine and street street drugsaren't.
Aren't you afraid when you'reusing, uh, that you could get
something with like fentanyl init or like something that could
just kill you immediately,because that that wasn't really
as much of a thing like in mygeneration, like people would
(16:39):
maybe do cocaine at a party orsomething, and it wasn't like
you could possibly die and it'sactually like a pretty high
likelihood that this is cut withsomething.
So how were you not afraid ofthat kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I didn't care, like there was, I was going through a
lot of different just likeseasonal depression or just
depression where I was just likewhatever.
But I think, like I was raisedin church, I believe in God and
I think like a lot of it camefrom just like you know, like I
know, I'm going through a hardtime right now, but I don't know
(17:12):
, I don't know what I was reallythinking.
I I wasn't thinking, that's thething I really wasn't thinking
and I think I was just likebeing foolish and very reckless
on purpose because I was dealingwith my own things, yeah.
So I don't know, I don't, Ireally don't, it wasn't like
there wasn't a fear of, likesomething going wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
It was just you're just kind of caught up in the
moment and using what you canfind and stuff, and it sounds
like if you have peers that arealso kind of doing it, it just
becomes normalized and maybepeople aren't as afraid.
But you mentioned that you'velost some friends and that was
that was been pretty recently,right, like the past year and a
half or two years.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Back in 2020.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, so that pandemic, the start of the
pandemic, and so do you thinkthat that started to be?
That was kind of the catalystto seeing, like the dangers of
that kind of world of like, oh,you know, the substances can
kill, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, well, they didn't they, none of them.
Well, one of them did die froman overdose, which was something
that I was like all right, thatthat became kind of a thing in
my life where I was like, okay,now I have to, you know think
about that.
But it wasn't really like thewhole substance abuse stuff.
It was more just like I can'tlive.
(18:27):
It just doesn't align with thishealthy lifestyle.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I find, like when people are making the shift, uh,
getting sober or maybe evenjust like the sober curious
people not not a hundred percentsober, but it's like the when
you start filling your life withthe good stuff, like
relationships with people whoaren't making their life around
substance and going on runsearly in the morning, and just
like having every step of theday like okay, I ran this
(18:52):
morning, so I'm going to eatsomething healthy because I want
to feel good on my run tomorrowLike your life just starts to
kind of fall into a more healthypattern and like the next
decision becomes more like, youknow, matching the previous
decision, and so I think thatthat's kind of a cool thing that
people can learn from is like,oh, like it's not all at once,
like sometimes it's just likethe taking the first right
(19:15):
action and then other actionskind of follow suit.
So did, did you have a specificsobriety date that you're like
you got sober?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay, like this is my date that I'm like I stopped
using on this day, or did itjust kind of happen and you you
don't even remember which day itwas yeah, I think it was like
10, 29, uh-huh 23 oh, cool wowso like I had to shop this
morning because I knew that wasprobably my question, but I was
like other than that, like Ijust my sobriety date is kind of
just like so on the phone yesnot even, not even like.
So it was the fall of last year.
(19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So I saw you had a birthday yesterday, right.
Okay, I thought that it wasyour sober birthday.
I really because I'm just inthat mindset because I see cake
and stuff and I'm like, oh, asober birthday, but it's your
actual birthday, yeah.
So happy birthday, thank you.
Young person in recovery, youget to look at your future
differently of wow, I figuredthis one thing out now, and now
(20:10):
it's like I think that's a huge,huge accomplishment, because so
many people spend decadesbanging their head against the
wall wondering why things aren'tworking out for them.
But it's because they never hitthat low enough low to then
have a catalyst for change.
Hit that low, enough low tothen have a catalyst for change.
And I relate to that where Igot sober when I was 30 the
(20:32):
first time.
And I'm so glad that now, whenI get closer and closer to 40,
I'm like, okay, I figured thatone thing out.
That's making me a betterperson and growing older without
that extra nonsense that'staking away from my life, right,
and allowing me to see thepositive behaviors to create
like the life that I want.
(20:52):
So, yeah, I think it's amazingwhen people who come into the
you know that realization young.
But it also means that you'veseen a lot and, like you know
that you had to get to thatpoint.
But if you don't mind talkingabout your accident, that uh, so
what?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
um, I was just riding leaving work and, uh, some guy
did a u-turn in front of me.
And you're on a motorcycle,yeah, um, and I he did it like
he did like a three point u-turnwhere he blocked both lanes,
kind of very slow u-turn andlike I didn't have enough time
to like go around him.
So I was just like all right,I'm just gonna hit him.
(21:30):
So I hit the back of his car.
I went like flying 10 feet andthen, on impact I guess I think,
or maybe I don't know I kind ofwent out for a second um, but
then I stood up because I sawthat the guy was trying to drive
away and I was was like you'renot driving away.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Wow, he's going to try to leave.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, he was trying to leave the scene.
And then I like went to standup and then that's when I
realized my whole leg wassnapped in half and so I had
like bone going through my jeans.
It was like a full compoundfracture.
And then I fell back down andyou, you know, my adrenaline was
just going crazy.
(22:10):
Um, thankfully there was like amedic off duty medic that was
just like driving by and like,honestly, like called the police
, called the ambulance and kindof saved my day wow, you could
have died if somebody hadn'tbeen there right away.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I wasn't, I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I was bleeding a ton and I had, I didn't.
I wasn't wearing a helmet, Iwasn't wearing, literally, I
wasn't just like in a tank top.
Um, I had no scars, no, nothingover my body, like over my wow
any of anything like I reallyfelt protected that night and um
, it wasn't until like maybethree or four days later that I
started feeling this like painin my testicle.
(22:44):
Once, like all the drugs fromthe surgery kind of wore off, um
, and I was like, yeah, I feellike this super sharp pain.
So we did an ultrasound andthen they showed me the
ultrasound and then I likeshattered my testicle, um, so
you didn't even know right away.
Oh wow, so I was just like theadrenaline, and then as soon as
I got to the hospital, they putme on a ton of uh drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So you couldn't feel if something I couldn't feel
anything until like after my legsurgery.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And so they put a metal rod in from the top of my
knee all the way down to myright ankle, um, and so that's
holding my uh, my bones togetherso you're doing all of this
ultra uh endurance on top of ametal rod in your leg.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Wait so, the accident was a little over a year ago.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
No, this was 2020 as well.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Okay, so four years ago, yeah, wow.
So you've had a huge recoveryfrom that to be able to go from
that to then running these ultraevents.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I mean, the doctor told me I wouldn't be
able to run.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Don't do it.
Yeah, he's like I mean thedoctor told me I wouldn't be
able to do it.
Yeah, that's like I mean, Idon't know, they never know.
Yeah, I feel that I had surgeryover the summer and they said
no exercise, uh, for a few weeks.
And everyone was like prepareyourself, like you can't.
And then I, that day, I waslike if there's a will, there's
a way.
Don't do that.
If you're somebody who's likeyour doctor, so you don't
(24:06):
exercise.
But I, yeah, I think if youmentally like want something,
you can, you can push it.
But, um, so, uh, wow, so that'sa, that's a crazy accident.
Um, do you think that?
So you weren't really a runner,runner the way you are now.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yet I was still like drinking, using yeah, yeah, yeah
, wow.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So how long did it take after that accident?
You know you're on all thesemedications and stuff Were you
still kind of you're in thethick of like the cycle of like
using stuff like after for a fewyears?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, I was.
I was just sitting there in myhouse.
I had to get myself like Icouldn't move.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So I was just drinking a ton and just yeah,
yeah, I was getting paid from myjob because of, like their, I
still had some sort of insurancethrough them and I was just
like not doing anything, juststagnation.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I feel like sitting still and not having anything
that you can physically do islike a breeding ground for
addiction.
Yeah and um, that reminds me ofwhen I so I was running before I
got sober and I got injured andI had to be sedentary for a
long period of time.
I had like a terrible shinstress fracture and I couldn't
(25:14):
move and so I had still beendrinking a lot while I was
running, and that downtime waswhen I bottomed like rock
bottomed, because I was sosedentary I had nothing to do,
so I would just focus my wholeday on like getting drunk and so
, like, it just feeds off of youhave nothing else to think
about.
So it's like if that's yourwhole life, it can really get
(25:35):
progressively worse very quickly.
So, yeah, so how do youapproach the people that you
knew, that knew you when youwere using a lot?
How do you approach the socialdynamics now as this other
person Like, do people from yourpast look at you now and say,
oh, like, wow, look at hisInstagram, he's doing all these
crazy races and like this issuch a different person than who
(25:57):
we knew when we were like usingwhen we were younger?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I think there's been.
At first there was like oh,you're kind of too good for us
now.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I always try to like, come off as like look, we're
still like great friends, likethere is never.
I don't think I'm better thananybody.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And then, like just because I'm on my journey,
doesn't mean it should be.
You should compare my journey toyours, and so I've always tried
to make that, um, very, veryknown to my friends and they,
they get it.
They also, you know, they don'tcomprehend.
They think me going on a threemile run is impressive, yeah.
So like it's just like tryingto, you know, bridge the gap a
little bit with them and just belike, hey, like what I got
(26:42):
going on over here, like I don'tcare if people drink or do
stuff around me.
I'm very strong in who I am andI know what I have to lose.
So I don't, I don't care if I'maround it.
Now, do I choose to be aroundit all the time?
Like no, I'm in bed by 930.
Like that's just kind of whatmy life is now and I'm cool with
that.
So there has been a little bitof a difference.
(27:05):
But since I've left Chicago,like that's where all the party
scene was for me, so here inAustin, like I haven't, even I
haven't really no.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I relate to that and I also think sometimes
with people, like, if you arejust on your path doing your
thing, people will recognize itand maybe in the beginning
they're like, oh wait a minute,that's different from who I knew
.
But then over time I've noticedsome of those people that I used
to have fun with, likeespecially, I used to work in a
bar in New York and it was wild,it was fun.
(27:35):
But those people I was like, oh, they're going to hate me now,
like when I would post about mysobriety and stuff, and I'm like
they're not going to think I'mcool anymore, like I'm not fun
anymore.
But then they are slowly butsurely.
There have been a few that havebeen like, hey, I'm kind of on
the same path, like quietly,like they're like that, like
that inspired that thing yousaid about whatever inspired me,
and like it just like.
(27:55):
Naturally, the ones who want tobe perceptive to this, like you
know, it's not for everybody,but for some people it's a cool
example to be, and I've yeah,I've gotten like plenty of
messages from like lifelongfriends, strangers.
Like.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think I on TikTok, I really kind of push the
sobriety and running thing andI've I've gained some traction
there and like I have like tonsand tons and tons of messages of
people just being like yo, liketruly, you have like inspired
me all this stuff and I alwaysjust like make sure that they
they feel heard and just likedude, like you could do it too
yeah and it's really.
(28:30):
I'm not like some superhumanthat like has this ability to do
something like.
I'm just another messed uphuman that is just trying to be
a better person and like that'swhat I think Instagram and
social media like.
There's this gap yeah, it'slike no, I'm literally I don't
have you.
Yeah, I don't have it figuredout, yeah, so do you ever wonder
(28:51):
about?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
um?
I'm not projecting this ontoyou, but I like, for me, I
relapse as part of my story andum, I, my identity was sober
runner for several years.
Like people google my name andsee sober runner things and
whatever and I had, I was veryopen about it.
And then I was very open aboutwell, then I relapsed, like very
publicly and I it was reallyawkward and I felt very ashamed
(29:14):
and you know it was some kind ofit was I had lost my footing in
the community.
I felt very alone and I justwas like, fuck this, I'm gonna
go um pick up and um, I tried toemphasize to people like I'm
not the person to look to forthe advice, like I'm just as
much of a broken human still andI'm making mistakes, and like
this was just part of my journeyand, if anything, I like it
(29:38):
reemphasized how not wantingthat life I like I like realize,
okay, I don't want this life,it's not for me, but do you ever
worry if, like your entire,like, if people are like seeing
you as this, like sober personthat, like you, can't ever
reopen that door?
I'm like I'm not saying like Ihope you do, but like do you
feel like what happens, like ifyou know, in the like in some
(29:59):
situation in your life, ifyou're tempted, like, how do you
grapple with that?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, I think the same way, like how, like I DNF
my first 100 mile attempt andit's like you know, obviously
that wasn't the outcome, thatwasn't what I was working
towards.
That wasn't what I was workingtowards, but like, just like
everything, like my runningcareer journey has never been
(30:24):
perfect and it won't ever beperfect.
And like that could be very muchthe same with my sobriety
journey.
And like I'm very okay withmaking mistakes and messing up
and then learning from thosemistakes because that's all my
life has been.
Like I have messed up so much.
I've been a terrible humanbeing.
Like I've been really bogus toa lot of people and like I think
as I get older, it's like Ijust want to be a better person.
(30:45):
So I'm like I'm okay makingmistakes because I know the
growth that comes from it is somuch better.
So like do I still thinksometimes about having a beer?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yes, yeah, all the time, yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, 100%.
But like I'm not, I know I'mjust very comfortable in my
sobriety right now and I justlike, oh, that's not, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
My one of my old sponsors from a long time ago.
I don't I'm not part of thecommunity anymore of 12 step,
but I did have this woman in mylife.
That was very like meaningfulto me and I still think about
things she said and she alwayshad me play the tape, Like so,
even if I had like a little urge, she always wanted me to tell
her when I felt that like littlelike yeah, I kind of want
something, you know, and even ifI'm not going to act on it,
(31:32):
just saying it out loud tosomebody else, I would tell her
and then she would say the tapeand like what happens next?
So you have the drink, maybeyou feel a little bit better,
you know.
And then the next steps thatfollow.
It's for me right now, it's thenI've opened a door to that
suddenly being okay.
And then, like what does thatlook like a few weeks from now,
(31:54):
when I've been doing it everyday or every week?
And suddenly I'm back to whereI left off and it's like I've
built so much to get to thispoint.
Right now I'm not going to messit up, but I am really curious
to hear what your thoughts areon all of the legalization of
like weed marijuana stuff and ifthat's part of your journey, I
mean, um, it's everywhere.
(32:15):
And like in my day it wasn't.
And like some people are, I'veI've I've listened to and
respect people who areCalifornia sober, who, you know,
have marijuana as part of theirrecovery, even though they
don't drink.
I'm not in that camp, but I'mcurious what you think about
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, um, it doesn't bother me.
Like I'm, I don't really carewhat other people do.
I think I joke around with myfriends.
I was like, if there's everanything I would do again, it
would probably be mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Because, like, I've had some great experiences.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
God, that's so funny.
You say that because thismushroom account just followed
me on Instagram and they do themicrodose things and I was like
like I need to talk to someone,get this off my chest, because I
felt like that seems really fun.
But like, yeah, I agree, likeit's hard, it's like opens
Pandora's box of like then what?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
but anyway, but also I know that like leads to a very
slippery slope so.
I'm like I don't spend as muchtime thinking about like this
variety stuff.
It's just something that I'mjust like I know I am, but like
even I'll have like an NA beerand like you know, if, if you
want to consider that as like adrink, like okay, I mean, I
(33:24):
you've made, I've made it veryclear that like to me I know I'm
still sober I'm choosing thiszero, zero, zero point, whatever
it is.
Like I know I'm sober and solike I don't need to follow this
like strict, so I reallyappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I think that's very important.
Um in this community because of, like, being outside of the
stricter sobriety groups, um,that shall not be named, but um,
but I I know for myself I had athing with kombucha where I
love kombucha and I I stoppeddrinking it for years because I
was so afraid that that zero,zero, zero, zero, one percent
(34:00):
was gonna mess up my sobrietydate count.
And then I finally got to apoint where I was like this is
not for me.
This is I'm not like advisingother people, but this is not
the same as drinking prosecco at11 am, which is what I used to
do, and so like it's the thingthat I like, and so like I think
it's important for people tojust find the things that they
know.
(34:21):
This works for me.
This is not a relapse.
Like I'm not gonna, like youknow, beat myself up.
Maybe someday I won't havekombucha, but for right now it's
working and it's like it's nota um, it's not reminding me of
who I used to be and it's notgonna make it so that I wake up
and have to, like, undo all thisdamage of the day before and,
like you know, text people andsay I'm so sorry, I screamed at
(34:42):
you and you know, at the bar,but yeah, multiple people have
told me like, oh, so you're notsober.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I'm like what?
Yeah like I'm choosing I'mchoosing this over a beer, but
also like I'm not doing it foranybody else exactly not.
And like yeah it isn't to gainanything, it's really just
because it doesn't fit my lifeanymore.
So like it doesn't matter to meis still very non alcoholic,
yeah, and I don't care ifthere's a.
Whatever percentage is I?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
think that's.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing for people to
hear, Because there are a lot ofpeople who are like every
little thing, it's like there'stoo many rules, and then that
just throws everything out thewindow and it's like just focus
on progress, not perfection,like that's at least what I do.
But yeah, because I had hadanother thing of like six months
ago I ate a gummy thing beforebed that was like CBD, and then
(35:29):
I saw on the packaging it waslike 0.0001% THC or whatever,
and I was like am I not sober?
And I'm like no, that wasn like, that wasn't an intentional
thing, so doesn't count, butit's what we call free laps,
because I was like I guess Ifree laps last night.
I didn't even mean to, butanyway.
So, yeah, I think that's a veryvaluable perspective and in
(35:50):
these sober communities now, Ithink people are becoming more
like choosing their ownnarrative.
With it, there's not as much ofa rigid outline of how it has
to look, uh, which I think isvery important because it
invites more people into thecommunity.
Um, so do you, do you feel likeyou certainly naturally just
surround yourself with morepeople that are in that world
now that you're running a lotand like, or do you still have
(36:12):
to navigate, like those kinds ofrelationships because, like,
the running community can't havea lot of?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
runners are the biggest yeah partiers I've ever
been.
I know like literally yeah,every single, like the whole tre
thing, the brooks people areyeah they throw a banger, I
guess every single year and,yeah, they are the biggest
partiers.
I've never been around so, likeI've never been a big partier,
I think I've always done mydrugs solo, yeah, with maybe one
other person, but like, yeah, Ihaven't like post marathon,
(36:41):
post any sort of race.
The parties are insane and Ifeel like yeah yeah.
So wait, it doesn't.
That stuff doesn't bother me, Ithink, like I still hang around
.
Um, some of some majority of myfriends are sober and some of
them aren't, but when they havea beer, like whatever yeah, I
feel I feel that way too.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I think, like when I first came into the running
community, uh, a lot of thepeople my track team in brooklyn
would go to the bars afterwardsand get crazy and I would just
kind of like show up and Irealized, like that thing, that
initial thing of like everyone'sdrinking and then I would just
like have a seltzer and nobodycares, and then I got over it
and it was, it was fine and fineand so it's more of your own
(37:19):
thing in those environmentsversus what anyone else actually
cares or thinks.
Yeah, and if anyone ever doescare or think what you're
consuming, that's arepresentation of themselves.
Yeah, I've noticed that whensomeone's like oh, you're not
drinking and I was like youdon't know me, yeah, I don't
have to explain.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Also, don't like put my sobriety on other people like
yeah, oh, yeah, it's my ownthing.
It's like I don't care what youdo like and I don't like when
people are like oh, yeah, I hatethat yeah yeah, that that like
that, that thing of like oh, isthis, is this okay?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
and I'm like I do not care what you do at all, but
yeah, um yeah.
So the social situations areseems like you've got that kind
of.
You've navigated those well.
And how do you respond to thetrope about trading one
addiction for another, like somepeople?
Oh well, you were an addict,and with substances, and now
(38:13):
you're an addict with running.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
How do you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
yeah.
How do you respond to that?
Yeah, I think it's you're like,I own it.
Yeah, like I.
Yeah, I am, and I that'ssomething that I'm like.
I changed a bad addiction for agood addiction.
It's like you know, you couldsay addictions aren't, you know,
good for people, but I thinkreally I chose a positive one
and it hasn't hurt anybody thisfar, like yeah, and if it has
like I'm sorry that I'm runningyeah, exactly, that's a good way
(38:41):
to put it is it hasn't hurtanyone.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, because I, when people have said that, um to me
, like a lot of people, you'reobsessed with running and you're
just running so much and I waslike I don't it.
It's hard to wake up and go run.
It's not hard to go to a barand drink, like that's easy to
feel better, whereas like, if Ido something hard to feel better
, it doesn't feel like the samekind of addiction.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I think that's just a lot of projection from like
insecurity and like I've beenthere too, I've done the exact
same thing.
I've talked shit to soberpeople all my life.
But, like, once you start goingagainst the grain a little bit,
that's when you start to getthose people that are just
insecure and going through itand it's like I'm okay with that
, because I I don't respond toit the way I probably would have
if I was still insecure, butlike now I'm like I'm gonna live
(39:27):
my life we all have our ownlives and like I'm choosing this
path yeah whatever, it's notthat big of a deal yeah, it's,
it's just a.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It's a I've realized as I've gotten older.
It's like people, it doesn'tmatter what anyone thinks.
I I've really, really startedto embody it where I'm like, oh,
actually nobody cares nobodydoes.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Everybody's always cared about.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
They all care about themselves and the only people
who do care, like I.
I have a thing where Iobsessively check my what people
say about me online on reddit,because people love to talk shit
and I like it's like a snarkthing, a snark blog, and I will
look at what people say andthey're like they've said
exactly she just traded oneaddiction for another, whatever,
and I just like it's like justrefueling the fire for me to
(40:10):
just keep doing what I'm doing.
Like if this is, if this iscausing someone to have this
kind of a visceral response, uh,I must be doing something right
, because I feel like it's likeif that's heating somebody up,
then like I'm just gonna keepdoing, doing it, and it's.
It's just it's changed over theyears, because I think I used
to let people get under my skin,but but anyway, yeah, so that
(40:30):
was, that was a side note, but II think that it's just
important for us to just be onour paths.
Yeah, so I feel like there wassomething I wanted to ask you
more about that.
Let me just check my notesreally quickly.
Um, so where, when you got into, you started running ultras
like on your own, not just speed, probably like the 50ks, the
(40:51):
hundred miler that you dnf'd.
What was the hundred miler like?
If you don't mind telling thatstory, yeah um.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So after chamonix, um , I was around, uh, so we we ran
chamonix to marseille.
Marseille was a dump.
We went back to chamonixbecause utmb was going on that
around that time, yeah, and so Iwas like this is perfect, let's
hang around.
Utmb um, we me and my friendkeith met up with and tyler
(41:23):
tyler, my friend, uh, my friendtyler was shooting uh this thing
for cadence on max jolliffe andhe was running um tds, which is
the utmb race, um, and so wewere around and I was like let's
just go to that.
And so I got this like fire litinside me from max running like
(41:43):
utmb.
He ended up being, I think, thefourth american um out there
and like kicked ass and it litlike a fire in me and and I
could say it lit a fire in keithtoo.
And I think we we got back justso like energized, we're like,
oh fuck, this is so cool.
Like utmb was just likesomething my brain was never
(42:05):
like I don't know, I was neverput around at all, like it
wasn't like any sort of marathon, it was a different level of
this cool factor.
Um, so after I got back I waslike fuck, I need to chase my
next high and I had run a 50miler this past um, summer, the
bpn 50 miler, and that went welland um, so I was like, all
(42:28):
right, I don't want to do thekilometer thing.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
So let's just jump from 50 mile to 100 yeah, yeah,
because people hear 50k and theydon't know it's 31 miles.
So then yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So then 50 miler people know, and then 100 miler
people know yeah, and so I waslike all right, let's try this
Satisfying and microverseseizure Throw in this cool ass
event.
Let's do it.
So we signed up.
Where was this?
This was in Prescott, arizona,okay, and so I got my boy,
arturo, from Chicago, to come upand he met me and Keith and we
(43:03):
went out there and we all had aterrible race and it was
honestly comical.
It was a very hot day forOctober.
I guess it was like a recordfor Arizona heat for like
October it was scorching, um.
But I think it was like I hadsome issues with, uh, my
(43:27):
testicle again and I felt like avery strong feeling, like I was
feeling during my accident.
So I got very nervous because Idon't have health insurance and
I don't really I want to havekids.
So I'm like yeah, I don't.
I don't know what this means, uh.
And so to me, I got to a pointwhere I was like, all right, I'm
not gonna keep pushing thisbased off ego, I'm just gonna
(43:50):
remove myself and I'm I'm gonnafinish 100 mile or one day like
today is not gonna to happen.
It's not going to happen.
So I ended up DNFing at likemile 32.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And then my buddy, arturo, Still 32 miles, so still
50 kilometers.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, I guess I ran all show that day.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
But Arturo had.
Arturo and Keith both got heatstroke and there was a bunch of
people that were getting likesuper, super sick.
It was so hot out and like theaid stations were there was a
bunch of people that weregetting like super, super sick
because it was so hot out, um,and like the aid stations were,
there was a ton yeah it was.
It was a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
So, um, the stars didn't align like it wasn't it
wasn't my day and that's cool.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Like I'm okay with it .
I think as soon as you know itwas, it sucked.
I was around a bunch of peoplethat were, uh, who I looked up
to a lot and I wasn't able tolike perform how I wanted to
perform in front of these peopleand um, but then again, like
who?
Again, who?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
cares.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
And, like I'm always, I can run a hundred miles.
I could run like a hundredmiles whenever I want, and it's
it wasn't about the race.
It wasn't real.
Now that I'm looking back at it.
It's not about the race, it'snot about any of it.
It's like I just want to get100 miles, to be like I ran 100
miles.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And it's yeah, it's not about any of getting into
any sort of race.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, that's the beauty of ultra, I think, is
that it's kind of like you'renot trying to qualify for
something, you're just doing itjust for yourself.
And when you feel like peopleare waiting for you to do
something epic, that's also likeextra pressure that you don't
need and it should just besomething that's coming from
yourself.
But I've found with ultra, likeit's so much more about you
(45:30):
know, it's like the conditions.
Everything has to be kind ofokay Because, like the running
itself is just going to behorrible, it's going to be so
long and hard.
But so if something is off,like it's hot, or you don't feel
good from the start or you'vegot some kind of pain, it's
going to just get progressivelyexponentially worse and you have
to call it when you know you'renot going to be able to keep
going.
(45:50):
But but yeah, and I think alsolike your why has to be so
extremely strong too.
And yeah, like when you dothese ultra events, what is your
why?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
um, definitely my why has to do with my best friend
that died.
Um, it's a place of really bigfactor into it.
But also, like I don't know, Ithink my why is I was truly a
piece of shit person, uh, likein my early adult years, and
like I think I'm really justtrying to change the whole
(46:28):
narrative for myself and like Iwant to prove to me, and only me
, that I I know I could be abetter person and I was raised
better than this um, and so Ithat plays a big factor into it.
Like I don't know, I just wantto be healthy and I want to be
able to have a family one day,and it's that's something that I
always think about.
(46:48):
Um, so it's almost like you'recorrecting my past in a way like
that's kind of what it is yeah,correcting your past, yeah, it
sounds.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
It sounds like it's a combination of correcting your
past and then also runningtowards a future that you want,
and so that's.
That's definitely veryadmirable.
Um, uh, and I relate a lot,cause I think, I think, if you
do have a lot of darkness inyour past, it's like getting it
out of your system with runningand there's such a like
correlation to like childhoodtrauma or just trauma and ultra
(47:19):
running yeah it's yeah, it goeshand in hand.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think there's a lot of like demons that you face on
those trails and like yeah youexperienced a lifetime in a day.
From what I've been told andI've experienced it like the
furthest I've ran technically isthe 50 miler, but I've, I've
cried, I cried.
The entire majority of thatrace was just like emotions and
emotions, emotions, and it'slike that's what I'm chasing.
(47:44):
I'm chasing this like trip thatI get through, like ultra
running, and it's I feel thatthat's why I think I'm addicted
to it, because it's like thisit's very similar to a drug,
almost.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, I think it's also like a cleansing experience
, um, by doing somethingchallenging and hard, like I've
found in my daily life.
If I'm off and I'm just like,because I think my, my resting
personality is actually kind ofthat of an addict, of just like
irritated and like, uh, I getreally short fused and like I
(48:17):
mean have my dad was Polish andhe had like a very strong Polish
temper and I definitely havethat when I don't exercise, and
so like I go sweat and like getthose things out and like purge
the demons, and then I can kindof face the world and be like
nice or like kind of nice, and Ithink that that's like that's
what keeps me an OK person.
(48:37):
And then also like the chainreaction of making the positive
decisions of like OK, like I'mnot going to make, like I might
wake up and be like I just wantto drink today and like fuck
those people or whatever, butthen, like when I do something
hard, I'm like OK, I feel alittle bit better and I'm not
going to like rage out anymore,but and it does make me feel
less remorseful or grieving overwho I used to be, which I
(49:00):
sounds like you relate to, butanyway, yeah.
So I think that that's runningcan be very healing.
What are you working towardsnow?
Like, how does running traininglook like in your daily life
right now?
And like, what are you workingtowards?
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah, I don't know what my next race is going to be
.
I haven't haven't figured thatout yet.
That's something that's been onmy head a lot, but I don't know
.
I've just been running juststaying running.
Yeah, I've like kind of justgotten back into just like
falling in love with runningagain.
And so I try to hit around like40 to 50, 60 miles a week and
(49:36):
just no less than 10 um no lessthan 10 on a single run yeah,
that's kind of what I've been.
This week was a little bitdifferent, but that's kind of
like my standard.
I just want to get like a good10 mile run and I think that's
when I feel 10 is like thatelusive perfect amount yeah but
it's also like hard because likeI did 10 miles a day for three
years.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
It was kind of a thing.
I'd made a like a video aboutit on YouTube and that got me
into running.
But then I now I haven't beendoing that and like I still
exercise in other ways, but likeI'll go do 10 miles and be like
, damn, 10 miles is far likeit's not, it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
So if you're doing it , like, definitely not easy here
in Austin yeah.
Austin's a lot smaller, yeah,well, it's also just a lot
smaller than that's like twoloops of town lake trail, yeah,
and it's just like, oh, it's,yeah.
So that's kind of like my sweetspot and I'm gonna just
continue running and, um, Ithink once I do have a race that
I'll obviously pick up.
You know, I want to try to getsome more elevation and that's
(50:32):
something that I, my littlebrain, cannot comprehend it's
like black.
Chicago.
So, um, yeah, I don't reallyhave anything yet, but there
will be something early nextyear that I'm looking for Cool.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Um, yeah, I have to getsomething on the books too.
I haven't really raised a lotrecently.
I did solo things but like,like back in during the pandemic
that I kind of like like justputting on a spontaneous ultra
on the track or something, yeah,but yeah, so how can people
find you like on social media ifthey want to reach out?
Or, you know, on InstagramTikTok?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, my Instagram and TikTok are both Nolan, with
three N's and a J at the end.
Cool yeah, hit me up, let's geta run in or something, yeah
totally Great.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Well, thank you so much for coming on to the show
and thank you, guys, forwatching the Lucy Beatrix
podcast brought to you by theMuseum of Distance Running.
Museum of Distance Running,also known as Motor, is an
apparel brand that caterstowards the creative class of
runners, and if you use theoffer code Lucy10, l-u-c-i-e 10,
(51:39):
you can get 10% off your nextorder, and we're having a drop
of our fall winter collection ina few weeks, so stay tuned for
that.
Go get it.
Yeah, it's going to be awesomeHoodies, long sleeves.
Anyway, thank you so much.
You can find me on Instagram.
I'm Lucy Beatrix B-E-A-T-R-I-X.
And until next time, just befast, just win.
This is the Lucy Beatrix podcast.
Today we are joined by NolanJohn, a Midwest-born,
austin-based ultra runner andsober human who has appeared in
several running publications.
Nolan is very open about theirrecovery from addiction and how
that relates to finding movement.
We're going to get into all ofthat and explore our common
(00:27):
denominators on the topic ofrunning and recovery.
So, without furtherintroduction, welcome to the
show, nolan.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you grew up in Chicago?
Yeah, midwesterner.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And now you live in Austin.
What brought you to Texas?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Kind of just wanted to get out of the city.
I feel like you don't reallygrow up as a human if you just
stay home your whole life.
So I just wanted to get alittle uncomfortable and put
myself in a space that I knewnobody knew nothing about.
And so here I am.
How old were you when you movedhere, a space that I knew,
nobody knew nothing about, andso here I am.
How old were you when you movedhere?
(01:07):
24.
I mean, this was in April, so Ijust moved here.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, so recently.
So you, kind of like, left yourhometown to start over fresh,
and a few months ago you ran theSpeed Project in France.
Yeah, from to Chamonix.
From where, what was it?
No, so it France to Chamonix.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
From where?
No, so it was from Chamonix toMarseille.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
From Chamonix to Marseille, which is an ultra
endurance relay race.
That happens Usually.
The Speed Project that a lot ofpeople know is the Las Vegas or
Los Angeles-Las Vegas race,which you also did.
Yeah, but what was the FranceSpeed project like?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
insane.
It was like yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Chamonix is the most like beautiful spot in this that
I've been to.
Like the world, like it's justinsane.
Had you been to Europe before?
So this was your first timegoing to Europe was to run this
ultra, pretty, pretty spoiled.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Now I don't think anywhere else in europe is going
to beat chamonix.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, I feel like that kind of experience, of
experience or going to a newplace by foot, like running a
distance really, uh, puts adifferent perspective on a new
location yeah and um, I feltthat way when I did los angeles
to vegas a couple years ago.
Uh, with the satisfied teamwhere I ran from did the relay
from la to vegas and uh, yeah, Ijust feel like you see so much
(02:29):
that you don't see when you'rejust in a car whizzing past all
these like little uh gasstations and stuff yeah so how
did you prepare for uh, for thatspeed product in france?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
honestly it was.
I didn't do too much prep.
I mean I think I would.
So my running journey kind ofjust started.
My ultra running journeystarted in January of this year,
um, which was like my first 50kum in, I think, little Rock, a
little bit outside Little Rock,arkansas, um.
(03:00):
And so from there on I've justbeen continuing running.
There wasn't any specific liketraining plan for it.
I've just been running a lot.
I don't really have a trainingplan.
I love that I just run.
I think I could have done alittle bit more like speed work,
(03:20):
because we did half milerepeats the entire way.
So the team is five people orthere was about seven of us, um,
in our team.
We kind of split it up a littlebit differently.
We had, like technically, afreestyle team, not an og team,
so we had a little bit morepeople, but like our van would
(03:40):
run and then our second vanwould run, so we would have a
little bit of a chance to breakdowntime between the relay.
Yeah, so um, but the entire timewe were running like half mile
repeats, which was like for, Ithink, 30, 31 hours, um, and so
that was I didn't train.
Yeah, I didn't train for that,I think.
Uh, I was definitely holdingthem down a little bit, but
(04:02):
other than that, it was that'sawesome yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, I think that the speed project they break it
up.
Every team does it their ownway.
There's no rules, it's anunsanctioned wild relay and I
love how the there's differenttraining methods or different
racing methods of just justgoing and doing it in different
ways.
I did one where, um, during thepandemic, there was a DIY speed
project where my team decidedyou could do it anywhere,
(04:27):
because it was like you couldn'tdo the original speed project
because it was shut down fromthe pandemic.
So I did all of my legs on atrack and so I did every fifth
hour I did an hour on the trackand so that was like a lot
longer of running at once thanbreaking up into half miles, but
it wasn't as fast or efficientbecause you can't really get
(04:48):
your legs cooking like quickly.
How fast were you guys goingfor this half mile?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think we were like averaging around like 640, 650s,
but like yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
For 31 hours.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That's awesome.
Do you know how many miles youended up running during that
race?
Total?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I think it got about like maybe 40 to 50.
Yeah, um, it was kind of hardbecause, like I didn't want to
break down every single halfmile, yeah.
So like eventually, I countedout like the Strava, yeah, but
it was just too much yeah, Itotally know, um, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So our one of our common denominators right off
the bat was that someone on yourteam is the other half of the
museum of distance running,which is the apparel company
that I'm affiliated with, andJared was telling me all about
this and how wild it was, and Iwas watching all of his updates.
But, yeah, it looked like a lotof fun it was but there's
(05:42):
always chaos that comes withthese kinds of races.
Oh yeah, I definitely bondedwith him over that because, uh,
it just you know, there's a lotof moving parts, there's a lot
of organization, there's a lotof disorganization.
It's just like how it has to beif you're doing the speed
project in any capacity.
Um, how did you approachfueling for that?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
uh well, we I nobody knew fire, I nobody on my team
knew French, so, like everythingwas my entire, like the only
thing I ate was just like breadand coffee the entire, not
really the entire.
There was no theory.
So I am not someone that youshould ask about any sort of
nutrition or anything like that,because we, just we ate what we
(06:26):
could understand.
And I think, like everythingelse, we got into a supermarket
and it was just like, yeah, wedidn't really eat, it was, yeah,
it was.
It was very disorganized, but Iwould do it again, just because
it was just like.
I mean, it's an experience.
And I think, like you know, youtake, take like Martins at the
beginning and you're like, allright, I'm going to get on top
(06:47):
of it, but then, like threehours in, you're just like you
want food anything, literally.
that's just the beauty.
Of ultra is like you could eatwhatever the hell you want you
could eat whatever the hell youwant and as long as you're
running like whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, that, I love that.
Like kind of like the exactopposite of what somebody might
have prescribed, of like, oh,take this gel and do this, just
eat what you can find.
You're in a different countryBread and coffee it is.
But yeah, I love that.
I think that's kind of amazing.
I did it.
When I did it, uh, from LA toVegas, I had packed a bunch of
sweet potatoes and I just waslike eating sweet potatoes in
(07:20):
the sprinter van and it was likethat worked for me.
So it's what I did.
But, um, yeah, so how would youcompare the french speed
product to the vegas speed, likethe original speed project?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
um, obviously, like just the mountains, all the just
, france is just so much, Ithink, so much more pretty, but
I would say they were bothchaotic.
Like they're both chaotic andbeautiful in its own way, like I
think the biggest differencewould just be you know, we had I
(07:58):
had a lot more room, we had afull RV with LA to LV, but we
had, like just some tiny Hyundaithat we were like all crammed
in which sucked, but that's hardwhen your legs are hurting and
then you have to get into alittle seat.
Everybody's cramping up.
Like you know, you only reallyhave like maybe six, seven
minutes of rest really beforeyour your next leg out.
(08:18):
So everybody's cramping,everybody's like pulling things
yeah.
It's crying, saying all of eachother yeah, I wouldn't really
tell much of a of a difference.
It was both just yeah wild hellfor for 31 hours.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I think you kind of your body.
The thing in the speed projecttaught me was your body just
adjusts and learns how to beextremely uncomfortable for a
long period of time and then itteaches you, at least from my
experience, like later in lifewhen I had other things going on
where I had to stay up allnight for some job or something
or travel really far for work, Iwas able to just go well, I'm
(08:52):
not running all these miles andlike it, like it reconditions
you to think you can do thingsthat are way harder because you
did the speed project.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So it like recalibrates what your pain,
tolerance in life is right um,which I think is awesome, like
you can reference it like well,I did that, you know, and you,
in your case, you did speedproject twice, so and it wasn't
within one year, you did twospeed projects yeah, so I yeah,
I was with my chicago crew forla to lv, shout out, run too
hard.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And then we I was able to.
Once I moved here.
I moved here to Austin rightafter LA to LV, and then I met,
just like some people here, andwe were able to I was on Gordon.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, gordon, yes, oh , cool.
Yeah, that was a wild crew ofpeople too, which I think is
awesome.
Yeah, yeah, gordon's anotherMuseum of Distance Running
common denominator between us.
Yeah, gordon's another Museumof Distance Running common
denominator between us.
So I want to get into the mainthing that I think you and I
have in common, which is that weboth have struggled with
(09:53):
addiction and used running as,like this way to distance
ourselves from who we were inour like not so great days.
So if you don't mind opening upabout what that looks like for
you and how you found runningand like how that kind of those
two worlds collided, for you aseries of craziness in my life.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
In 2020.
I lost, um, three of my bestfriends, all to different things
, one to gun violence.
And then, right after I lost mybest friend, gary, uh, I got
into a motorcycle accident,broke my leg and lost a testicle
, and so I was just likebedridden, just lost three
friends, just super, superdepressed, um, and I think
(10:48):
that's when I was just likedrinking heavy, taking anything
I can get my hands on honestly,and, man, I was just like sick
of it.
I think I got to a very lowpoint where I was just like this
sucks.
I started going to therapy alittle bit.
This sucks, um, I started goingto therapy a little bit, um,
(11:12):
but then, like, once, my fatherlost his, like, um, his
insurance, I got, I kind of got,you know, cut off too, and so
that's when I just startedpicking up running, cause I had
always, like, enjoyed running,going on a run but, I, was never
really considered.
I wouldn't call myself a runner,I would just like run two miles
as fast as I could, um, and belike, oh, that felt good, um,
and so I just picked up runningagain and was just like, all
(11:32):
right, let me, let me try thisout.
And, um, kind of surroundedmyself, got into a run club in
Chicago and that made it just somuch easier because I was like
meeting people and it was like asolid community.
It was a solid run club and, uh, it kind of just slowly started
getting the ball rolling and Ijust kind of changed addictions
(11:53):
a little bit.
Um, but I was still during thattime I was, you know, still
drinking, still doing a lot ofcoke and just anything I could
again get my hands on.
And then it wasn't until maybea month before my first marathon
, I was like, all right, let mejust try to go sober, just to
kind of prep for this.
And I did.
(12:16):
I was sober for the whole monthof October and I think it was
October 2023 before ChicagoMarathon.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And Chicago was your first marathon.
Yeah, so what?
You signed up for that race.
How far before the actual eventto begin to prepare?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I signed up for it right after, I think, the half
marathon, so I ran the halfmarathon.
I ran like Shamrock Shufflehalf marathon and just started
like going up in distance yeah,um, okay, I'm ready for a
marathon.
Yeah, I go for it I was like,let me just train for it.
Like I think that's the bestway to do is just put something
on your list and just train forit um.
(12:55):
And so a month prior I was justsober and finished the race.
But before I finished the race,I booked this trip to go to
dominican republic and was likealready planning on like going
to drink and like having a goodtime, like I worked my ass off
for this, like marathon.
I like I deserve this trip, areward.
Yes, and so I finished themarathon.
(13:17):
It was great, I loved it.
And then all of a sudden, I goto the Dominican Republic and
I'm at an all-inclusive resort.
Everybody's drinking liketerrible liquor.
It's just like a wholedifferent environment.
But because I trained my brainthat whole month prior and I was
just like eating better, I wasjust choosing a healthier
lifestyle, I went to this resortand I was just like ew.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, repulsed by it.
Yeah, isn't that amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it just like, was just so disgusted I couldn't
have, I couldn't enjoy anythingLike.
It was like terrible.
And so I was like drinking alittle bit there and I was just
like man, I don't like this, Idon't like this, I don't like uh
once I got back to Chicago, Iwas like I think I had like two
more weekends where I was justdrinking.
I was like well, why am I doingthis?
(14:03):
Why am I doing this?
It just didn't align, Um, and Ithink what was the very like
the time I went sober, I haddone some Coke and just the
hangover was awful, and I thinkthat was the the thing that
kickstarted my sobriety, where Iwas like all right, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I'm done.
So um, what when?
How old were you when youstarted using substances and got
into that stuff?
When was the first time youpicked up or your first drink 13
.
13?
Yeah, in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Was it your friends, or how did you find or get into
that stuff?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
My friend's stepfather had a bunch of oxys
and hydros and Zans and I'mpretty sure I don't know what he
was doing with them, but we, wefound them and we just we
weren't even drinking at thattime but we were like let's do
Xanax because at that time itwas so influenced with, like
(15:02):
music yeah, it's all over music.
So that's how you're likeraised in in that, like
SoundCloud Zan era little Zan,the rapper it was like that type
of like little peep influence,and so that's all they would rap
about.
And so we're like all right,let's do it.
And so me, my friend, I was abad influence and I influenced
(15:23):
him to do it with me, and sofrom there I kind of just
started to get.
I actually just went super hard,instead of starting with
alcohol and weed you wentstraight to the heart straight
to the pills and like that wassomething I was able to somewhat
get out of my system by likesophomore year, junior year,
high school, um, and then Istarted picking up just like
(15:48):
alcohol and I think, um withalcohol.
A couple years, alcohol.
Then came the coke yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So, um, something that I always wonder about
nowadays because, like I'm olderthan you I think by what's your
25 or 24 I'm 35, so I'm adifferent generation and I hear
the stuff about pills and stuffand that wasn't really I'm sure
it existed, but like I'm, I'mold school, like we, just I just
drank and you know there waslike people had weed around.
But nowadays there's just somuch availability or
(16:17):
accessibility to, toprescription pills and stuff
that are so addictive and sostrong.
But the thing that really makesme wonder is the with coke and
cocaine and street street drugsaren't.
Aren't you afraid when you'reusing, uh, that you could get
something with like fentanyl init or like something that could
just kill you immediately,because that that wasn't really
as much of a thing like in mygeneration, like people would
(16:39):
maybe do cocaine at a party orsomething, and it wasn't like
you could possibly die and it'sactually like a pretty high
likelihood that this is cut withsomething.
So how were you not afraid ofthat kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
I didn't care, like there was, I was going through a
lot of different just likeseasonal depression or just
depression where I was just likewhatever.
But I think, like I was raisedin church, I believe in God and
I think like a lot of it camefrom just like you know, like I
know, I'm going through a hardtime right now, but I don't know
(17:12):
, I don't know what I was reallythinking.
I I wasn't thinking, that's thething I really wasn't thinking
and I think I was just likebeing foolish and very reckless
on purpose because I was dealingwith my own things, yeah.
So I don't know, I don't, Ireally don't, it wasn't like
there wasn't a fear of, likesomething going wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
It was just you're just kind of caught up in the
moment and using what you canfind and stuff, and it sounds
like if you have peers that arealso kind of doing it, it just
becomes normalized and maybepeople aren't as afraid.
But you mentioned that you'velost some friends and that was
that was been pretty recently,right, like the past year and a
half or two years.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Back in 2020.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, so that pandemic, the start of the
pandemic, and so do you thinkthat that started to be?
That was kind of the catalystto seeing, like the dangers of
that kind of world of like, oh,you know, the substances can
kill, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, well, they didn't they, none of them.
Well, one of them did die froman overdose, which was something
that I was like all right, thatthat became kind of a thing in
my life where I was like, okay,now I have to, you know think
about that.
But it wasn't really like thewhole substance abuse stuff.
It was more just like I can'tlive.
(18:27):
It just doesn't align with thishealthy lifestyle.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I find, like when people are making the shift, uh,
getting sober or maybe evenjust like the sober curious
people not not a hundred percentsober, but it's like the when
you start filling your life withthe good stuff, like
relationships with people whoaren't making their life around
substance and going on runsearly in the morning, and just
like having every step of theday like okay, I ran this
(18:52):
morning, so I'm going to eatsomething healthy because I want
to feel good on my run tomorrowLike your life just starts to
kind of fall into a more healthypattern and like the next
decision becomes more like, youknow, matching the previous
decision, and so I think thatthat's kind of a cool thing that
people can learn from is like,oh, like it's not all at once,
like sometimes it's just likethe taking the first right
(19:15):
action and then other actionskind of follow suit.
So did, did you have a specificsobriety date that you're like
you got sober?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay, like this is my date that I'm like I stopped
using on this day, or did itjust kind of happen and you you
don't even remember which day itwas yeah, I think it was like
10, 29, uh-huh 23 oh, cool wowso like I had to shop this
morning because I knew that wasprobably my question, but I was
like other than that, like Ijust my sobriety date is kind of
just like so on the phone yesnot even, not even like.
So it was the fall of last year.
(19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So I saw you had a birthday yesterday, right.
Okay, I thought that it wasyour sober birthday.
I really because I'm just inthat mindset because I see cake
and stuff and I'm like, oh, asober birthday, but it's your
actual birthday, yeah.
So happy birthday, thank you.
Young person in recovery, youget to look at your future
differently of wow, I figuredthis one thing out now, and now
(20:10):
it's like I think that's a huge,huge accomplishment, because so
many people spend decadesbanging their head against the
wall wondering why things aren'tworking out for them.
But it's because they never hitthat low enough low to then
have a catalyst for change.
Hit that low, enough low tothen have a catalyst for change.
And I relate to that where Igot sober when I was 30 the
(20:32):
first time.
And I'm so glad that now, whenI get closer and closer to 40,
I'm like, okay, I figured thatone thing out.
That's making me a betterperson and growing older without
that extra nonsense that'staking away from my life, right,
and allowing me to see thepositive behaviors to create
like the life that I want.
(20:52):
So, yeah, I think it's amazingwhen people who come into the
you know that realization young.
But it also means that you'veseen a lot and, like you know
that you had to get to thatpoint.
But if you don't mind talkingabout your accident, that uh, so
what?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
um, I was just riding leaving work and, uh, some guy
did a u-turn in front of me.
And you're on a motorcycle,yeah, um, and I he did it like
he did like a three point u-turnwhere he blocked both lanes,
kind of very slow u-turn andlike I didn't have enough time
to like go around him.
So I was just like all right,I'm just gonna hit him.
(21:30):
So I hit the back of his car.
I went like flying 10 feet andthen, on impact I guess I think,
or maybe I don't know I kind ofwent out for a second um, but
then I stood up because I sawthat the guy was trying to drive
away and I was was like you'renot driving away.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Wow, he's going to try to leave.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, he was trying to leave the scene.
And then I like went to standup and then that's when I
realized my whole leg wassnapped in half and so I had
like bone going through my jeans.
It was like a full compoundfracture.
And then I fell back down andyou, you know, my adrenaline was
just going crazy.
(22:10):
Um, thankfully there was like amedic off duty medic that was
just like driving by and like,honestly, like called the police
, called the ambulance and kindof saved my day wow, you could
have died if somebody hadn'tbeen there right away.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I wasn't, I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I was bleeding a ton and I had, I didn't.
I wasn't wearing a helmet, Iwasn't wearing, literally, I
wasn't just like in a tank top.
Um, I had no scars, no, nothingover my body, like over my wow
any of anything like I reallyfelt protected that night and um
, it wasn't until like maybethree or four days later that I
started feeling this like painin my testicle.
(22:44):
Once, like all the drugs fromthe surgery kind of wore off, um
, and I was like, yeah, I feellike this super sharp pain.
So we did an ultrasound andthen they showed me the
ultrasound and then I likeshattered my testicle, um, so
you didn't even know right away.
Oh wow, so I was just like theadrenaline, and then as soon as
I got to the hospital, they putme on a ton of uh drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
So you couldn't feel if something I couldn't feel
anything until like after my legsurgery.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And so they put a metal rod in from the top of my
knee all the way down to myright ankle, um, and so that's
holding my uh, my bones togetherso you're doing all of this
ultra uh endurance on top of ametal rod in your leg.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Wait so, the accident was a little over a year ago.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
No, this was 2020 as well.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Okay, so four years ago, yeah, wow.
So you've had a huge recoveryfrom that to be able to go from
that to then running these ultraevents.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I mean, the doctor told me I wouldn't be
able to run.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Don't do it.
Yeah, he's like I mean thedoctor told me I wouldn't be
able to do it.
Yeah, that's like I mean, Idon't know, they never know.
Yeah, I feel that I had surgeryover the summer and they said
no exercise, uh, for a few weeks.
And everyone was like prepareyourself, like you can't.
And then I, that day, I waslike if there's a will, there's
a way.
Don't do that.
If you're somebody who's likeyour doctor, so you don't
(24:06):
exercise.
But I, yeah, I think if youmentally like want something,
you can, you can push it.
But, um, so, uh, wow, so that'sa, that's a crazy accident.
Um, do you think that?
So you weren't really a runner,runner the way you are now.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yet I was still like drinking, using yeah, yeah, yeah
, wow.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So how long did it take after that accident?
You know you're on all thesemedications and stuff Were you
still kind of you're in thethick of like the cycle of like
using stuff like after for a fewyears?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, I was.
I was just sitting there in myhouse.
I had to get myself like Icouldn't move.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So I was just drinking a ton and just yeah,
yeah, I was getting paid from myjob because of, like their, I
still had some sort of insurancethrough them and I was just
like not doing anything, juststagnation.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I feel like sitting still and not having anything
that you can physically do islike a breeding ground for
addiction.
Yeah and um, that reminds me ofwhen I so I was running before I
got sober and I got injured andI had to be sedentary for a
long period of time.
I had like a terrible shinstress fracture and I couldn't
(25:14):
move and so I had still beendrinking a lot while I was
running, and that downtime waswhen I bottomed like rock
bottomed, because I was sosedentary I had nothing to do,
so I would just focus my wholeday on like getting drunk and so
, like, it just feeds off of youhave nothing else to think
about.
So it's like if that's yourwhole life, it can really get
(25:35):
progressively worse very quickly.
So, yeah, so how do youapproach the people that you
knew, that knew you when youwere using a lot?
How do you approach the socialdynamics now as this other
person Like, do people from yourpast look at you now and say,
oh, like, wow, look at hisInstagram, he's doing all these
crazy races and like this issuch a different person than who
(25:57):
we knew when we were like usingwhen we were younger?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I think there's been.
At first there was like oh,you're kind of too good for us
now.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I always try to like, come off as like look, we're
still like great friends, likethere is never.
I don't think I'm better thananybody.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And then, like just because I'm on my journey,
doesn't mean it should be.
You should compare my journey toyours, and so I've always tried
to make that, um, very, veryknown to my friends and they,
they get it.
They also, you know, they don'tcomprehend.
They think me going on a threemile run is impressive, yeah.
So like it's just like tryingto, you know, bridge the gap a
little bit with them and just belike, hey, like what I got
(26:42):
going on over here, like I don'tcare if people drink or do
stuff around me.
I'm very strong in who I am andI know what I have to lose.
So I don't, I don't care if I'maround it.
Now, do I choose to be aroundit all the time?
Like no, I'm in bed by 930.
Like that's just kind of whatmy life is now and I'm cool with
that.
So there has been a little bitof a difference.
(27:05):
But since I've left Chicago,like that's where all the party
scene was for me, so here inAustin, like I haven't, even I
haven't really no.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I relate to that and I also think sometimes
with people, like, if you arejust on your path doing your
thing, people will recognize itand maybe in the beginning
they're like, oh wait a minute,that's different from who I knew
.
But then over time I've noticedsome of those people that I used
to have fun with, likeespecially, I used to work in a
bar in New York and it was wild,it was fun.
(27:35):
But those people I was like, oh, they're going to hate me now,
like when I would post about mysobriety and stuff, and I'm like
they're not going to think I'mcool anymore, like I'm not fun
anymore.
But then they are slowly butsurely.
There have been a few that havebeen like, hey, I'm kind of on
the same path, like quietly,like they're like that, like
that inspired that thing yousaid about whatever inspired me,
and like it just like.
(27:55):
Naturally, the ones who want tobe perceptive to this, like you
know, it's not for everybody,but for some people it's a cool
example to be, and I've yeah,I've gotten like plenty of
messages from like lifelongfriends, strangers.
Like.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think I on TikTok, I really kind of push the
sobriety and running thing andI've I've gained some traction
there and like I have like tonsand tons and tons of messages of
people just being like yo, liketruly, you have like inspired
me all this stuff and I alwaysjust like make sure that they
they feel heard and just likedude, like you could do it too
yeah and it's really.
(28:30):
I'm not like some superhumanthat like has this ability to do
something like.
I'm just another messed uphuman that is just trying to be
a better person and like that'swhat I think Instagram and
social media like.
There's this gap yeah, it'slike no, I'm literally I don't
have you.
Yeah, I don't have it figuredout, yeah, so do you ever wonder
(28:51):
about?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
um?
I'm not projecting this ontoyou, but I like, for me, I
relapse as part of my story andum, I, my identity was sober
runner for several years.
Like people google my name andsee sober runner things and
whatever and I had, I was veryopen about it.
And then I was very open aboutwell, then I relapsed, like very
publicly and I it was reallyawkward and I felt very ashamed
(29:14):
and you know it was some kind ofit was I had lost my footing in
the community.
I felt very alone and I justwas like, fuck this, I'm gonna
go um pick up and um, I tried toemphasize to people like I'm
not the person to look to forthe advice, like I'm just as
much of a broken human still andI'm making mistakes, and like
this was just part of my journeyand, if anything, I like it
(29:38):
reemphasized how not wantingthat life I like I like realize,
okay, I don't want this life,it's not for me, but do you ever
worry if, like your entire,like, if people are like seeing
you as this, like sober personthat, like you, can't ever
reopen that door?
I'm like I'm not saying like Ihope you do, but like do you
feel like what happens, like ifyou know, in the like in some
(29:59):
situation in your life, ifyou're tempted, like, how do you
grapple with that?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, I think the same way, like how, like I DNF
my first 100 mile attempt andit's like you know, obviously
that wasn't the outcome, thatwasn't what I was working
towards.
That wasn't what I was workingtowards, but like, just like
everything, like my runningcareer journey has never been
(30:24):
perfect and it won't ever beperfect.
And like that could be very muchthe same with my sobriety
journey.
And like I'm very okay withmaking mistakes and messing up
and then learning from thosemistakes because that's all my
life has been.
Like I have messed up so much.
I've been a terrible humanbeing.
Like I've been really bogus toa lot of people and like I think
as I get older, it's like Ijust want to be a better person.
(30:45):
So I'm like I'm okay makingmistakes because I know the
growth that comes from it is somuch better.
So like do I still thinksometimes about having a beer?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yes, yeah, all the time, yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, 100%.
But like I'm not, I know I'mjust very comfortable in my
sobriety right now and I justlike, oh, that's not, yeah, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
My one of my old sponsors from a long time ago.
I don't I'm not part of thecommunity anymore of 12 step,
but I did have this woman in mylife.
That was very like meaningfulto me and I still think about
things she said and she alwayshad me play the tape, Like so,
even if I had like a little urge, she always wanted me to tell
her when I felt that like littlelike yeah, I kind of want
something, you know, and even ifI'm not going to act on it,
(31:32):
just saying it out loud tosomebody else, I would tell her
and then she would say the tapeand like what happens next?
So you have the drink, maybeyou feel a little bit better,
you know.
And then the next steps thatfollow.
It's for me right now, it's thenI've opened a door to that
suddenly being okay.
And then, like what does thatlook like a few weeks from now,
(31:54):
when I've been doing it everyday or every week?
And suddenly I'm back to whereI left off and it's like I've
built so much to get to thispoint.
Right now I'm not going to messit up, but I am really curious
to hear what your thoughts areon all of the legalization of
like weed marijuana stuff and ifthat's part of your journey, I
mean, um, it's everywhere.
(32:15):
And like in my day it wasn't.
And like some people are, I'veI've I've listened to and
respect people who areCalifornia sober, who, you know,
have marijuana as part of theirrecovery, even though they
don't drink.
I'm not in that camp, but I'mcurious what you think about
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, um, it doesn't bother me.
Like I'm, I don't really carewhat other people do.
I think I joke around with myfriends.
I was like, if there's everanything I would do again, it
would probably be mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Because, like, I've had some great experiences.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
God, that's so funny.
You say that because thismushroom account just followed
me on Instagram and they do themicrodose things and I was like
like I need to talk to someone,get this off my chest, because I
felt like that seems really fun.
But like, yeah, I agree, likeit's hard, it's like opens
Pandora's box of like then what?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
but anyway, but also I know that like leads to a very
slippery slope so.
I'm like I don't spend as muchtime thinking about like this
variety stuff.
It's just something that I'mjust like I know I am, but like
even I'll have like an NA beerand like you know, if, if you
want to consider that as like adrink, like okay, I mean, I
(33:24):
you've made, I've made it veryclear that like to me I know I'm
still sober I'm choosing thiszero, zero, zero point, whatever
it is.
Like I know I'm sober and solike I don't need to follow this
like strict, so I reallyappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I think that's very important.
Um in this community because of, like, being outside of the
stricter sobriety groups, um,that shall not be named, but um,
but I I know for myself I had athing with kombucha where I
love kombucha and I I stoppeddrinking it for years because I
was so afraid that that zero,zero, zero, zero, one percent
(34:00):
was gonna mess up my sobrietydate count.
And then I finally got to apoint where I was like this is
not for me.
This is I'm not like advisingother people, but this is not
the same as drinking prosecco at11 am, which is what I used to
do, and so like it's the thingthat I like, and so like I think
it's important for people tojust find the things that they
know.
(34:21):
This works for me.
This is not a relapse.
Like I'm not gonna, like youknow, beat myself up.
Maybe someday I won't havekombucha, but for right now it's
working and it's like it's nota um, it's not reminding me of
who I used to be and it's notgonna make it so that I wake up
and have to, like, undo all thisdamage of the day before and,
like you know, text people andsay I'm so sorry, I screamed at
(34:42):
you and you know, at the bar,but yeah, multiple people have
told me like, oh, so you're notsober.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I'm like what?
Yeah like I'm choosing I'mchoosing this over a beer, but
also like I'm not doing it foranybody else exactly not.
And like yeah it isn't to gainanything, it's really just
because it doesn't fit my lifeanymore.
So like it doesn't matter to meis still very non alcoholic,
yeah, and I don't care ifthere's a.
Whatever percentage is I?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
think that's.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing for people to
hear, Because there are a lot ofpeople who are like every
little thing, it's like there'stoo many rules, and then that
just throws everything out thewindow and it's like just focus
on progress, not perfection,like that's at least what I do.
But yeah, because I had hadanother thing of like six months
ago I ate a gummy thing beforebed that was like CBD, and then
(35:29):
I saw on the packaging it waslike 0.0001% THC or whatever,
and I was like am I not sober?
And I'm like no, that wasn like, that wasn't an intentional
thing, so doesn't count, butit's what we call free laps,
because I was like I guess Ifree laps last night.
I didn't even mean to, butanyway.
So, yeah, I think that's a veryvaluable perspective and in
(35:50):
these sober communities now, Ithink people are becoming more
like choosing their ownnarrative.
With it, there's not as much ofa rigid outline of how it has
to look, uh, which I think isvery important because it
invites more people into thecommunity.
Um, so do you, do you feel likeyou certainly naturally just
surround yourself with morepeople that are in that world
now that you're running a lotand like, or do you still have
(36:12):
to navigate, like those kinds ofrelationships because, like,
the running community can't havea lot of?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
runners are the biggest yeah partiers I've ever
been.
I know like literally yeah,every single, like the whole tre
thing, the brooks people areyeah they throw a banger, I
guess every single year and,yeah, they are the biggest
partiers.
I've never been around so, likeI've never been a big partier,
I think I've always done mydrugs solo, yeah, with maybe one
other person, but like, yeah, Ihaven't like post marathon,
(36:41):
post any sort of race.
The parties are insane and Ifeel like yeah yeah.
So wait, it doesn't.
That stuff doesn't bother me, Ithink, like I still hang around
.
Um, some of some majority of myfriends are sober and some of
them aren't, but when they havea beer, like whatever yeah, I
feel I feel that way too.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I think, like when I first came into the running
community, uh, a lot of thepeople my track team in brooklyn
would go to the bars afterwardsand get crazy and I would just
kind of like show up and Irealized, like that thing, that
initial thing of like everyone'sdrinking and then I would just
like have a seltzer and nobodycares, and then I got over it
and it was, it was fine and fineand so it's more of your own
(37:19):
thing in those environmentsversus what anyone else actually
cares or thinks.
Yeah, and if anyone ever doescare or think what you're
consuming, that's arepresentation of themselves.
Yeah, I've noticed that whensomeone's like oh, you're not
drinking and I was like youdon't know me, yeah, I don't
have to explain.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Also, don't like put my sobriety on other people like
yeah, oh, yeah, it's my ownthing.
It's like I don't care what youdo like and I don't like when
people are like oh, yeah, I hatethat yeah yeah, that that like
that, that thing of like oh, isthis, is this okay?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
and I'm like I do not care what you do at all, but
yeah, um yeah.
So the social situations areseems like you've got that kind
of.
You've navigated those well.
And how do you respond to thetrope about trading one
addiction for another, like somepeople?
Oh well, you were an addict,and with substances, and now
(38:13):
you're an addict with running.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
How do you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
yeah.
How do you respond to that?
Yeah, I think it's you're like,I own it.
Yeah, like I.
Yeah, I am, and I that'ssomething that I'm like.
I changed a bad addiction for agood addiction.
It's like you know, you couldsay addictions aren't, you know,
good for people, but I thinkreally I chose a positive one
and it hasn't hurt anybody thisfar, like yeah, and if it has
like I'm sorry that I'm runningyeah, exactly, that's a good way
(38:41):
to put it is it hasn't hurtanyone.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, because I, when people have said that, um to me
, like a lot of people, you'reobsessed with running and you're
just running so much and I waslike I don't it.
It's hard to wake up and go run.
It's not hard to go to a barand drink, like that's easy to
feel better, whereas like, if Ido something hard to feel better
, it doesn't feel like the samekind of addiction.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I think that's just a lot of projection from like
insecurity and like I've beenthere too, I've done the exact
same thing.
I've talked shit to soberpeople all my life.
But, like, once you start goingagainst the grain a little bit,
that's when you start to getthose people that are just
insecure and going through itand it's like I'm okay with that
, because I I don't respond toit the way I probably would have
if I was still insecure, butlike now I'm like I'm gonna live
(39:27):
my life we all have our ownlives and like I'm choosing this
path yeah whatever, it's notthat big of a deal yeah, it's,
it's just a.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It's a I've realized as I've gotten older.
It's like people, it doesn'tmatter what anyone thinks.
I I've really, really startedto embody it where I'm like, oh,
actually nobody cares nobodydoes.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Everybody's always cared about.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
They all care about themselves and the only people
who do care, like I.
I have a thing where Iobsessively check my what people
say about me online on reddit,because people love to talk shit
and I like it's like a snarkthing, a snark blog, and I will
look at what people say andthey're like they've said
exactly she just traded oneaddiction for another, whatever,
and I just like it's like justrefueling the fire for me to
(40:10):
just keep doing what I'm doing.
Like if this is, if this iscausing someone to have this
kind of a visceral response, uh,I must be doing something right
, because I feel like it's likeif that's heating somebody up,
then like I'm just gonna keepdoing, doing it, and it's.
It's just it's changed over theyears, because I think I used
to let people get under my skin,but but anyway, yeah, so that
(40:30):
was, that was a side note, but II think that it's just
important for us to just be onour paths.
Yeah, so I feel like there wassomething I wanted to ask you
more about that.
Let me just check my notesreally quickly.
Um, so where, when you got into, you started running ultras
like on your own, not just speed, probably like the 50ks, the
(40:51):
hundred miler that you dnf'd.
What was the hundred miler like?
If you don't mind telling thatstory, yeah um.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So after chamonix, um , I was around, uh, so we we ran
chamonix to marseille.
Marseille was a dump.
We went back to chamonixbecause utmb was going on that
around that time, yeah, and so Iwas like this is perfect, let's
hang around.
Utmb um, we me and my friendkeith met up with and tyler
(41:23):
tyler, my friend, uh, my friendtyler was shooting uh this thing
for cadence on max jolliffe andhe was running um tds, which is
the utmb race, um, and so wewere around and I was like let's
just go to that.
And so I got this like fire litinside me from max running like
(41:43):
utmb.
He ended up being, I think, thefourth american um out there
and like kicked ass and it litlike a fire in me and and I
could say it lit a fire in keithtoo.
And I think we we got back justso like energized, we're like,
oh fuck, this is so cool.
Like utmb was just likesomething my brain was never
(42:05):
like I don't know, I was neverput around at all, like it
wasn't like any sort of marathon, it was a different level of
this cool factor.
Um, so after I got back I waslike fuck, I need to chase my
next high and I had run a 50miler this past um, summer, the
bpn 50 miler, and that went welland um, so I was like, all
(42:28):
right, I don't want to do thekilometer thing.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
So let's just jump from 50 mile to 100 yeah, yeah,
because people hear 50k and theydon't know it's 31 miles.
So then yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So then 50 miler people know, and then 100 miler
people know yeah, and so I waslike all right, let's try this
Satisfying and microverseseizure Throw in this cool ass
event.
Let's do it.
So we signed up.
Where was this?
This was in Prescott, arizona,okay, and so I got my boy,
arturo, from Chicago, to come upand he met me and Keith and we
(43:03):
went out there and we all had aterrible race and it was
honestly comical.
It was a very hot day forOctober.
I guess it was like a recordfor Arizona heat for like
October it was scorching, um.
But I think it was like I hadsome issues with, uh, my
(43:27):
testicle again and I felt like avery strong feeling, like I was
feeling during my accident.
So I got very nervous because Idon't have health insurance and
I don't really I want to havekids.
So I'm like yeah, I don't.
I don't know what this means, uh.
And so to me, I got to a pointwhere I was like, all right, I'm
not gonna keep pushing thisbased off ego, I'm just gonna
(43:50):
remove myself and I'm I'm gonnafinish 100 mile or one day like
today is not gonna to happen.
It's not going to happen.
So I ended up DNFing at likemile 32.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And then my buddy, arturo, Still 32 miles, so still
50 kilometers.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, I guess I ran all show that day.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
But Arturo had.
Arturo and Keith both got heatstroke and there was a bunch of
people that were getting likesuper, super sick.
It was so hot out and like theaid stations were there was a
bunch of people that weregetting like super, super sick
because it was so hot out, um,and like the aid stations were,
there was a ton yeah it was.
It was a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
So, um, the stars didn't align like it wasn't it
wasn't my day and that's cool.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Like I'm okay with it .
I think as soon as you know itwas, it sucked.
I was around a bunch of peoplethat were, uh, who I looked up
to a lot and I wasn't able tolike perform how I wanted to
perform in front of these peopleand um, but then again, like
who?
Again, who?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
cares.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
And, like I'm always, I can run a hundred miles.
I could run like a hundredmiles whenever I want, and it's
it wasn't about the race.
It wasn't real.
Now that I'm looking back at it.
It's not about the race, it'snot about any of it.
It's like I just want to get100 miles, to be like I ran 100
miles.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And it's yeah, it's not about any of getting into
any sort of race.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, that's the beauty of ultra, I think, is
that it's kind of like you'renot trying to qualify for
something, you're just doing itjust for yourself.
And when you feel like peopleare waiting for you to do
something epic, that's also likeextra pressure that you don't
need and it should just besomething that's coming from
yourself.
But I've found with ultra, likeit's so much more about you
(45:30):
know, it's like the conditions.
Everything has to be kind ofokay Because, like the running
itself is just going to behorrible, it's going to be so
long and hard.
But so if something is off,like it's hot, or you don't feel
good from the start or you'vegot some kind of pain, it's
going to just get progressivelyexponentially worse and you have
to call it when you know you'renot going to be able to keep
going.
(45:50):
But but yeah, and I think alsolike your why has to be so
extremely strong too.
And yeah, like when you dothese ultra events, what is your
why?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
um, definitely my why has to do with my best friend
that died.
Um, it's a place of really bigfactor into it.
But also, like I don't know, Ithink my why is I was truly a
piece of shit person, uh, likein my early adult years, and
like I think I'm really justtrying to change the whole
(46:28):
narrative for myself and like Iwant to prove to me, and only me
, that I I know I could be abetter person and I was raised
better than this um, and so Ithat plays a big factor into it.
Like I don't know, I just wantto be healthy and I want to be
able to have a family one day,and it's that's something that I
always think about.
(46:48):
Um, so it's almost like you'recorrecting my past in a way like
that's kind of what it is yeah,correcting your past, yeah, it
sounds.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
It sounds like it's a combination of correcting your
past and then also runningtowards a future that you want,
and so that's.
That's definitely veryadmirable.
Um, uh, and I relate a lot,cause I think, I think, if you
do have a lot of darkness inyour past, it's like getting it
out of your system with runningand there's such a like
correlation to like childhoodtrauma or just trauma and ultra
(47:19):
running yeah it's yeah, it goeshand in hand.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think there's a lot of like demons that you face on
those trails and like yeah youexperienced a lifetime in a day.
From what I've been told andI've experienced it like the
furthest I've ran technically isthe 50 miler, but I've, I've
cried, I cried.
The entire majority of thatrace was just like emotions and
emotions, emotions, and it'slike that's what I'm chasing.
(47:44):
I'm chasing this like trip thatI get through, like ultra
running, and it's I feel thatthat's why I think I'm addicted
to it, because it's like thisit's very similar to a drug,
almost.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, I think it's also like a cleansing experience
, um, by doing somethingchallenging and hard, like I've
found in my daily life.
If I'm off and I'm just like,because I think my, my resting
personality is actually kind ofthat of an addict, of just like
irritated and like, uh, I getreally short fused and like I
(48:17):
mean have my dad was Polish andhe had like a very strong Polish
temper and I definitely havethat when I don't exercise, and
so like I go sweat and like getthose things out and like purge
the demons, and then I can kindof face the world and be like
nice or like kind of nice, and Ithink that that's like that's
what keeps me an OK person.
(48:37):
And then also like the chainreaction of making the positive
decisions of like OK, like I'mnot going to make, like I might
wake up and be like I just wantto drink today and like fuck
those people or whatever, butthen, like when I do something
hard, I'm like OK, I feel alittle bit better and I'm not
going to like rage out anymore,but and it does make me feel
less remorseful or grieving overwho I used to be, which I
(49:00):
sounds like you relate to, butanyway, yeah.
So I think that that's runningcan be very healing.
What are you working towardsnow?
Like, how does running traininglook like in your daily life
right now?
And like, what are you workingtowards?
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah, I don't know what my next race is going to be
.
I haven't haven't figured thatout yet.
That's something that's been onmy head a lot, but I don't know
.
I've just been running juststaying running.
Yeah, I've like kind of justgotten back into just like
falling in love with runningagain.
And so I try to hit around like40 to 50, 60 miles a week and
(49:36):
just no less than 10 um no lessthan 10 on a single run yeah,
that's kind of what I've been.
This week was a little bitdifferent, but that's kind of
like my standard.
I just want to get like a good10 mile run and I think that's
when I feel 10 is like thatelusive perfect amount yeah but
it's also like hard because likeI did 10 miles a day for three
years.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
It was kind of a thing.
I'd made a like a video aboutit on YouTube and that got me
into running.
But then I now I haven't beendoing that and like I still
exercise in other ways, but likeI'll go do 10 miles and be like
, damn, 10 miles is far likeit's not, it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
So if you're doing it , like, definitely not easy here
in Austin yeah.
Austin's a lot smaller, yeah,well, it's also just a lot
smaller than that's like twoloops of town lake trail, yeah,
and it's just like, oh, it's,yeah.
So that's kind of like my sweetspot and I'm gonna just
continue running and, um, Ithink once I do have a race that
I'll obviously pick up.
You know, I want to try to getsome more elevation and that's
(50:32):
something that I, my littlebrain, cannot comprehend it's
like black.
Chicago.
So, um, yeah, I don't reallyhave anything yet, but there
will be something early nextyear that I'm looking for Cool.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Um, yeah, I have to getsomething on the books too.
I haven't really raised a lotrecently.
I did solo things but like,like back in during the pandemic
that I kind of like like justputting on a spontaneous ultra
on the track or something, yeah,but yeah, so how can people
find you like on social media ifthey want to reach out?
Or, you know, on InstagramTikTok?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, my Instagram and TikTok are both Nolan, with
three N's and a J at the end.
Cool yeah, hit me up, let's geta run in or something, yeah
totally Great.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Well, thank you so much for coming on to the show
and thank you, guys, forwatching the Lucy Beatrix
podcast brought to you by theMuseum of Distance Running.
Museum of Distance Running,also known as Motor, is an
apparel brand that caterstowards the creative class of
runners, and if you use theoffer code Lucy10, l-u-c-i-e 10,
(51:39):
you can get 10% off your nextorder, and we're having a drop
of our fall winter collection ina few weeks, so stay tuned for
that.
Go get it.
Yeah, it's going to be awesomeHoodies, long sleeves.
Anyway, thank you so much.
You can find me on Instagram.
I'm Lucy Beatrix B-E-A-T-R-I-X.
And until next time, just befast, just win.
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