Paul Reiser's Comedy Evolution

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
PAUL REISER (00:00):
Here's why you should never talk in front of your children. My older boy, Ezzy, who has no filter, he'll just say, and you have to go, mm. So he was very excited to come to the set and meet Michael Douglas. This was 2012 or something, he was like 12, 15. He got to meet him, and I was on the set, and Michael Douglas comes over to me, he goes, well, I just met your son, Ezra. I said, uh-oh, oh that doesn't sound good. What did he say? He goes, well, he was very sweet. He came over and he said, oh, Mr. Douglas, I heard you're very big, but your father was bigger. I don't know where he got that, I don't know.

(00:01):
[Theme music plays]
[Cassette tape player clicks open]

ALISA ROSENTHAL (00:03):
Hey what’s going on, this is Chicago Humanities Tapes – the audio extension of the live Chicago Humanities Spring and Fall Festivals, helping you find the answers to humanity’s biggest questions by bringing you the best of the best of the live festivals. I’m your host Alisa Rosenthal, and hey if you're in Chicago, check out some of our upcoming live events this spring 2025. Tickets are on sale now for comedian Ed Helms, graphic novelist Alison Bechdel, Tamika Mallory - cofounder of the historic Women’s March, poet Ocean Vuong, klezmer band Upshtat Zingerai, and a screening of Beyond Closure on the history of the largest mass school closures in U.S. history, and believe it or not, so much more.
Head to chicagohumanities.org for ticket information and to sign up for our email list.

Today (00:05):
Paul Reiser, comedian, Emmy Award-nominated actor, screenwriter, #1 New York Times bestselling author and musician, reflects on stand-up in the ‘80s, Mad About You, his writing, and his renaissance with roles on Stranger Things and The Kominsky Method. He chats with friend of the fest Mark Bazer, who’s contributing writer to Chicago Magazine and host and executive producer of The Interview Show.
This is Paul Reiser and Mark Bazer recorded live at Chicago’s historic Music Box Theatre at the Chicago Humanities Spring Festival in 2025.
[Theme music plays]
[Audience applause and cheering]

Oh, man. They didn't tell me they were going to be stairs, which I walk out like an actor. No, I got to climb.

MARK BAZER (00:10):
Thank you for coming out. How are you doing?

Up to there I was fine. I'm good, I'm good. Nice to be here. Thank you all for coming. Let's see how you feel at the end of it.

MARK BAZER (00:12):
That's true, that's true. You know, before you got here, I was doom-scrolling. And then I thought about something that you introduced your new stand-up special, which is called Life, Death, and Rice Pudding. And it was something to the effect of, I'm gonna tell you a lot of things, and none of them are important.

Exactly.

MARK BAZER (00:14):
And I think that's what we all need right now. So not that your career's not important, I don't mean that, but.

When I was doing stand-up and I just, there was so much, everything was so tense in the world that I actually started feeling very frivolous. I was like, ah, I'm talking about silly things and I just wanted to, I just needed to sort of pop it and so I just, for my own protection, say I'm aware there's stuff going on in the world, we're not gonna discuss it. So nothing is important tonight. And to my surprise, people were like clapping, they're like, oh, thank you. Thank you.

MARK BAZER (00:16):
One hundred per-

And I realized, oh, there is value in comedy. People are going, can we have an hour and a half of not hating our lives?

MARK BAZER (00:18):
Well, so the impetus, and I'll just say, for why I wanted to bring you here, bring you to Chicago, Chicago Humanities, is... Obviously, I grew up watching so much of what you did, but then I was, over the last several years, I was watching shows, Kominsky Method, Red Oaks, The Boys, which is an insane show.

It is.

MARK BAZER (00:20):
And then, of course, Stranger Things, and I'll tell you, I was watching, I'm sure many people had this experience, I was watching with... my son, and then I had to say, okay, let's stop and let's go watch Diner.

How did that go over?

MARK BAZER (00:22):
Well, I think a lot of 10-year-olds have now seen Diner in America because of that moment, which is probably not the best idea.

But you know what's interesting, when I met the Duffer brothers, who created Stranger Things, they called me right after the first season had aired, had dropped, and they invited me to be in the second season and I was very flattered and they said, we actually were calling your character Dr. Reiser while we were writing and I went, well that's crazy. And so I assumed, and I said, oh, I assume, you know, you guys must be watching Stranger Things, you must have been really into Aliens. And they went, yeah, but it was really Diner. I went, and they were like 32. And I said, oh, interesting. You're younger than the film.

MARK BAZER (00:24):
That's funny, I had a question that was like that they must have seen Aliens, which I'm sure they've seen.

Yes. Yes, and I think that, yes. Yeah, and there was one Diner joke, they said, did you read the scene? Yeah, he goes, did you get the Diner joke? I went, no. And it was so subtle, I went, even when they pointed out, I said, guys, that's, I don't even get it. That's so gentle.

MARK BAZER (00:26):
Did they keep it in?

Yeah, it didn't hurt anybody, it just was not gonna go, Diner! No.

MARK BAZER (00:28):
So my question is, post, and we're going to obviously get into Mad About You and your career coming up, but post Mad About You, my guess is that you had a certain level when roles were offered to you of having your choice, of having freedom. So what has been your kind of MO over the last several years of what you want to do, what you want to be in?

It's not uh, it's not that clear to me, um, post, immediately post, Mad About You, I, I really, I wanted to do nothing, which I succeeded at, I really, really nailed it.

MARK BAZER (00:30):
What did you do? You just didn't...

I was home, we had just had a, my younger son was born, we just moved into a house, I was really, and I was kind of, really just wanted to be home. I had been working really hard and, so I was writing, you know, in my, at home, I was writing a couple of pilots that I was not in and I wrote a film that I did, the Peter Falk - I was writing stuff, but I wasn't really looking to be out there, I wasn't missing it. And in my head, I wanted to get out and do stand-up, but I kept thinking, I don't want to do it half-assed. I want to wait until I really feel inspired. And then what happened, it was about, I don't know, my son who was born right after Mad About You, so he never heard of me, by the way. To this day, he has no idea who I am. I have to tell him. But he came home from school, he must have been like eight or nine, and he came home from school, and I had this wonderful feeling of domestic bliss. I'm home and I'm working and I'm relaxing, whatever. My son comes home from school and daddy's home. What a healthy thing for this child that his father is home and he's here to greet him. And he came in one day and he walked into my office at home and he said, Dad, what do you do? The other, all the other fathers do things. What do you do? And that's when I said, I should probably get out of the house.

MARK BAZER (00:32):
In the moment, how did you reply?

Uh, I think I wept a little bit. No I don't remember, I mean he knew like, I don't know I don't know what he thought. I don't know what I said, but that's when I kind of kicked me, there's no reason for this to have happened this way, but that's what made me say okay I got to get out and get off the couch and go do stand-up which involved really just calling the local comedy club and dropping by with a meager two minutes of material. I had nothing but I just needed to reactivate. But the minute I did that things started happening. Not because they saw that at all, but it was just sort of the universe went, oh, and then I got a call to do this and that, and then it started happening. So it really was not by design. I mean, I was sitting minding my own business when Stranger Things called, and Kominsky Method is like, I didn't, you know, I don't know exactly why, but.

MARK BAZER (00:34):
Maybe your son called them.

Yes. Can you get him out of the house? Yeah, so I, you know. I don't have a big game plan. I wasn't looking to do specific things, but when something comes up, there's often there's a reason to do it. It's a really funny script. It's a really moving script, it's a great location, although I don't think that came up too often. Or gee, that would be a really great actor to play with or director to work with. So if there's one element that I go, eh, that's okay, let's go do that. That's the extent of my planning.

MARK BAZER (00:36):
You mentioned getting back into stand-up, but that's where it started. Honestly, here's what I know. I know you grew up in New York and then you went to college for music. When did comedy, did you grow up in a house where comedy was important?

Yeah. Comedy was important. The music was just, I always played piano since I was a kid, I sort of was drawn to it and I had some innate talent. So when I went to college I thought, they had this program, it was a bit accelerated, you can get out of here in three years with all these music credits, let's do that. I was never thinking that I'm going to, I was never good enough, I'm going to be a performer or pianist or even as a composer, it was just something I loved doing. But I had always, even before then in high school, was really, really into comedy, you know. And you sort of accumulate friends of like-mindedness. So if your other friends would go, hey, George Carlin is on The Tonight Show tonight. It's like, hey, Albert Brooks is on tonight. So we would, I was a real fan of it, but never still not thinking I could do it. But this was early 70s, and it was just when the comedy clubs started to emerge where any idiot could go down and audition.

MARK BAZER (00:38):
Especially in New York.

Yeah, and so there was a path. It was like, oh, if you go to these places, and then you'd see some of these guys on TV, and like, oh, there's Freddie Prinze, and Gabe Kaplan, and David Brenner. They all came from that place. I think we should go to that place. So that was the full extent of my plan. If I go there, something will happen.

MARK BAZER (00:40):
So how long did it take you, obviously getting down, getting better at telling jokes, that's gonna take time, that's gonna take practice. How long did it take before you felt you had a point of view?

Like a month ago to be honest. I'm joking, but kind of, I do feel like I...

MARK BAZER (00:42):
How is that possible?

Well, because your point of view changes. So, you know, what I look, I kind of cringe if I look at stuff that I was doing 30, 20, 30 years ago. I was like, OK, that's where I was at that moment. And you just you get a better sense of yourself in the same way that you just know yourself better in your 60s than you do in your 20s. and you have more life experience and so with marriage and children and the world, your point of view comes more into focus and also you edit yourself and like, ah, that'll get a laugh but I don't want to say that.

MARK BAZER (00:44):
But isn't that bad? Isn't it better when you're in your 20s, and you just will say whatever and regret it later?

No, no, no.

MARK BAZER (00:46):
You can say what you really feel. Don't worry.

No, I mean, saying whatever you want was never like a huge goal for me. No. I don't have an essay answer.

MARK BAZER (00:48):
You kind of you so then you're doing stand-up. You're getting more and more well -known Diner comes along. What's that 1980?

82, 82. I wasn't really getting known at stand-up at all, I had only been doing it full-time like three years and stumbled by accident into the casting office, where they were casting Diner, which was a first-time script, first-time directing by Barry Levinson, he had never done anything, but I didn't know any of that, I was just actually hanging out with a friend who was going to audition and... I was waiting like this, and the casting director said, you're next. I went, no...

MARK BAZER (00:50):
You weren't there to audition?

No, I was waiting for my friend, because we were going to lunch, and lunch was very important. He said, let's go to lunch, but I gotta drop off a picture. I said, all right, I'll go with you.

MARK BAZER (00:52):
This is like the old actress that's discovered at the mall shop kind of thing.

Yes. Yes. And I tell people, don't expect this to happen, because it's never gonna happen again. But, and I literally tried to bow out of it, and she said, come back tomorrow, and bring a picture, and meet the director, and... It's funny, we moved about three, four years ago, and was cleaning out my house, and I found the piece of paper that the casting director had written. "The director's name is Barry Levinson, " I said ah I'd heard him, "12:30." And I went, that's it, that's my career, so that, it was only because of that movie, that accident that I got the movie, like three weeks later, I was in Baltimore making a movie which I had no experience in, really was a rookie. But when it came out a year later, it was because of that that I got on The Tonight Show for the first time. And then that began. So without, because I hadn't, I had not passed that bar or whatever when The Tonight Show's guy goes, yeah, you're ready. I hadn't scaled that height yet.

MARK BAZER (00:54):
But because of the film.

Ah, he's a new kid, and he's got a movie, and the movie has some heat to it. Let's put this kid on.

MARK BAZER (00:56):
On set, did you, was there a sense, this might be impossible, where you're like, I'm around people and maybe I'll be part of it whose careers are going somewhere.

No, I mean, I didn't know enough to know anything. I was just like, wow, they got cameras and lights and everything, this is like a real thing. I mean, that's how ignorant I was. And the guys, we were just immediately friends. It was like, you know, it was like summer camp. It was like, you know, five or six idiots thrown together for eight weeks, whatever it was. And people said, did you know it was gonna be a good movie? I go, I didn't, you know. The studio who bought it, they thought they were going to get Porky's Five, if you remember the Pork - you know, truly that's what they thought it was going to be. Oh, there's kids and there's sex in it. And Porky's had been a big hit. They didn't know what to do with it, Diner. They actually were trying to bury it. And then some reviewer, I think it was Pauline Kale, said, this is a great film and somebody should put this out right now. And so all these happy accidents, you know, but that's what, you know, life is. I've come to learn like. There's no plan, you know, just you can have hunches and you can have inclinations, but I didn't plan any of this shit.

MARK BAZER (00:58):
But you had to have had ambition. You had to -

Yes, I was hoping something would happen, but it wasn't clear what I was hoping for or in what sequence. And along the way, you know, I became a writer, again, because of Barry Levinson. After Diner came out that fall, that year, they asked him to do a pilot of Diner. And I was the only cast member that was in the pilot. And they never made more, they just made the one. But as we were making it, he said, You know, you should - you could write, why don't you write what would be the next script? I went, I don't know how. And he gave me the greatest act - I share this with aspiring writers, because I actually was joking, half joking, I said to Barry, I said, how do you write a script? And he said, facetiously, but seriously, he said, you type the words "fade in" and then keep typing. And I went, that's not wrong, that's not wrong. That sort of gave me a sense that I could be a writer of TV. So years later, when Mad About You came again, I don't even know if I had a clear ambition, but I was approached by a guy at a studio who said, we'd love you to be on another TV show. And I said, what TV? He goes, whatever you want, why don't you write it? And I said, wow. And at that point I was starting to find my voice in stand-up, I felt. My wife, at the time, I guess we were, yeah, we were newly married and my stand-up was largely about that. And I was feeling, oh, this is what I do better. I do the relationship stuff seems to be funnier and truer than, hey, California's different than New York.

MARK BAZER (01:00):
Yeah, yeah.

Those jokes. So I said I said if I was going to do a show and I wasn't itching to do a show I said but if I did I kind of want it to be really small like just like all those silly things in the moments and in a marriage, they go well we'll go write that, I went okay. "Fade in. Helen Hunt walks into a kitchen."

MARK BAZER (01:02):
You've described Mad About You as you, another person, and four walls.

Yeah, two idiots and four walls. And that, we pitched it, and it was the most succinct pitch I've ever come up with, because I'm not good at that, is, I said, okay, here's, I said, here's what the show is. I said, you know when you go to a party, you go to somebody's house gathering with your spouse, and you're having a great time, you're being very polite, and everybody's having a great time, and you say goodnight. You get into the car, and the minute the car door closes, one of you goes, why would you say that? I didn't know she was pregnant! Yes, oh my, I told you, you never told me. I said, that's it. I said, the show is the moment that door closes in the car. And they all went, We get it.

MARK BAZER (01:04):
I mean one of the things I love about that and also about your books, Couplehood starting with Couplehood, is this idea that relate you you know you found the right person when you can put up with somebody even though two human beings should be incompatible.

Yeah. Yeah I mean it's a flawed experiment. You think about it, and it's like, well, this other person's, they're gonna be here all the time? That doesn't sound like this is gonna work at all.

MARK BAZER (01:06):
And they feel that way about you.

Yes, then you can bond over that. I would like to be alone too. Wow, look how compatible we are. We both resent the other.

MARK BAZER (01:08):
My wife and I both go into the office three days a week. We each have one day when we're both home at the same day and then one day when we're home separately and I'm sure that's each of our favorite days.

Yes. Yeah. We did a revisit of Mad About You 20 years later, and one of my favorite scenes in there, and it was really fun to write, was I was house-sitting somebody, somebody asked me to watch their apartment for a couple of days, and I came back and I didn't wanna say it, it's like, I really enjoyed being by myself, and I was so reluctant to say that, and Helen Hunt's response is like, It's okay, I like being alone too. And then where it led to was suddenly the worst fight we ever had. It's like, it's safe to say that. Are you sure it's safe to say that? Yes, it's safe to say that. Well, I'll tell you something else. Wow. And there you go.

MARK BAZER (01:10):
I have a obviously so much of the show obviously everybody know knew that the characters were very much in love, but there was obviously a lot of fighting. Did you ever have fans, people come up to you and say "I take her side?".

You take her side?

MARK BAZER (01:12):
I take her side.

Sure yeah.

MARK BAZER (01:14):
Or I take your side.

Yeah, yeah, you know, there was a reaction, a very typical and sort of quintessential reaction that the show got, and what we would always get, people saying, oh, you must have microphones in our bedroom, oh, we had this. And sometimes, you know, and it leaned, the one comment that was a compliment, but I never really loved it, was guys would go, yeah, my wife made me watch your show. I went, You don't have to watch the show. If you don't want to, for God's sake, don't watch my show. But when people would often respond, like, oh, we had that exact argument yesterday, ooh, that thing, you know, and that was when we knew we were on the money. And we had some broad stories and some hijinks, but it was always the really small, intimate stuff that was the DNA of the show, and that's what people responded to.

MARK BAZER (01:16):
And I would say that, going back to your, the idea of you, another idiot, and four walls, there was something about the show. It was obviously a sitcom, it was shot the way a sitcom is shot, but it felt, at its best, like an episode was a mini play.

Yeah, we had, we, yeah, you know, our sort of motto was when we were writing, sometimes I would get a lot of grief in this from other writers, I would sort of kill a joke, I go, that's really funny, but I don't think she would say that, or I don't think I would say that, or it's, so we're not just going for the most laughs, and, but the sort of the, marching orders, it has to sound more like life than a TV show. And sometimes you can get a little subconscious and get into a TV show rhythm, where bap bap bap and everybody's being funny. It's like, well, people aren't that quippy all the time. And you wanna get your laughs, it's a comedy, but the litmus test is, does that sound real? You know, in real life, if somebody says something, an insult, the other person is gonna respond a certain way. They're not going to just go, ho ho, say something equally quippy. So that was our thing. It wasn't aimed to be a play, but the goal was let's make it sound like life. And there's no shortage of material. It started with, it came out of my life, but all the writers, men and women, would come in, deliberately or not, and we'd just start sharing, aw listen to this stupid argument I got with my wife yesterday, or my husband, and we'd go, hold on, that's funny, and then, you know. There's no shortage of silly shit that married couples will fight about.

MARK BAZER (01:18):
Do you have episodes that are either, they're the funniest, they're your favorite, they're the ones you look back at you're the proudest of?

Yeah. Yeah, there are a handful that, I mean, I was proud of the whole thing. There was one that I always think of as one of my favorites, and it really was like a play. We did one in the sixth year, I think, or the sixth or seventh year. We did seven seasons. So it was one of the last two years where we're trying to get the baby to sleep on her own. And it was a fulfillment of a dream that Helen and I discussed before she said yes to doing the show. We talk, what would you want to do? And we always had this, both had this idea that to do one take, one live take, with no cuts, no, you know, it's like a play. But we never really found a story that could sustain that. You can't just talk about nothing for 24 minutes. And then we said, oh, well this is interesting because we have a timer. We have to keep the baby has to sleep. You know, don't go in there for three minutes. Okay, now we have to sit out here for three minutes. Okay, now you can go in and do something. Now you have, okay, now four minutes. So we had a story, so that was done in one camera. Usually it would be four cameras and you could stop and make a mistake and cut it together. But we didn't have that luxury. We had the pressure and the excitement of, this is, it's one shot. One shot and it's not, there's a live audience. It's not being broadcast live, but it's one. So it was really fun. And it was 23 minutes and we're 17 minutes into it, I'm thinking, while we're talking like this and we're acting, I'm thinking, oh, this is going pretty good. Oh, don't screw up now, don't screw up now, because you gotta go all the way back to the beginning. You can't just.

MARK BAZER (01:20):
Did you have to do that?

No, no. We would usually tape a show at seven and end at two in the morning or one in the morning. This night, we started at seven and we were done at 7:23. And I remember I said to Helen, I said, can we do it again? And she said, why? I said, it was fun. She goes, I know, but we got it. Yeah, I guess, all right, go home.

MARK BAZER (01:22):
But to your point that it doesn't it's not just whether something's funny but whether somebody would say it what's so great about that episode is exactly what you're fighting about. You want to keep going in to wake up?

Yes.

MARK BAZER (01:24):
To be there for the baby.

Was the biggest stakes there were. How are we raising our child? Are we teaching her to be independent? Are we making her too dependent on us? And so it was a really, as we said, it was a rich area to mine, and that could sustain a long conversation like that.

MARK BAZER (01:26):
I was watching the episode with Mel Brooks the other day, and which had to have been a... They were like... He did like five of them, and they were... Yeah, okay, yes. The one when he goes to court over the coupons.

It was the silliest of them all.

MARK BAZER (01:28):
So he's cutting too many coupons...

Which came from my wife's mother who who had a club and they would like collect coupons like way beyond the bounds of legality. Like, I have 400 and they were 80 cents each so this is like $11,000. I go they're not gonna give you $11,000 of Chevron gas. They're not doing that! It's not how this works!

MARK BAZER (01:30):
So he gets arrested, basically, for using too many coupons, or "cyoo-pons," which he...

"Coupons coupons coupons."

MARK BAZER (01:32):
Yeah. So he goes to court, and I'm watching it, and I don't know whether this will make you feel good or bad, but there are people in the, not the cast, but people in the, that are extras.

In the jury scene.

MARK BAZER (01:34):
In the court courtroom. Who are laughing.

Never mind them. The first time we had him on the show, it was our dream, because he was my is, my idol. He was my comic idol. And meant most of the writers too, and Helen too. And so we were thrilled that we got him. We couldn't believe that we lucked out. And I was useless. I was just, I was, I was, I mean, it was like staring into the sun. It was like, it's too much. Oh my God. is if you look at that first episode that he was on, where he called us over for something very important, and it turns out, I need you to move the couch from here to here. It was like an inch, but I can't do it myself, I'm 82. And you see, I'm laughing, and a couple times, I would just turn my back to the camera like I'm in a seventh grade school play. It's like, asshole, there's cameras, they see you.

MARK BAZER (01:36):
You're the star of the show and you're turning around.

Yes, yes. Yeah, it is. And so there's a lot more shots of Johnny Panko in that scene because I was not of any use. Yeah, but he is a force, Mel Brooks. Little sweet moment, I'll share this with you. So the audience is like about 200-something people were there, it could hold 200-something, 220 people. That night it was packed because everyone wanted to see Mel Brooks. And his beautiful wife Anne Bancroft was in the front row. And in between scenes, Helen Hunt comes over to me, she goes, don't look now, but just quietly turn around and look at Anne. And Anne was on the front, leaning on the banister, just like this, just adoring him. And I went over, and I said, you having fun? She said, I had no idea he was this funny. She was great, they were so, so great.

MARK BAZER (01:38):
Let's talk about this, you have a film, a new film, it's called The Problem with People.

Yes.

MARK BAZER (01:40):
And getting back to.

What is the problem with people?

MARK BAZER (01:42):
Well, there's a lot, and it both seems very well within your oeuvre and a little bit outside. You play a real estate kind of mogul guy in New York. That's very true to...

I don't know how to write anything that doesn't take place in New York.

MARK BAZER (01:44):
But the movie takes place in Ireland, in rural Ireland.

But I came from New York. I got on a plane at JFK.

MARK BAZER (01:46):
That's true.

The story was they they were going to go to America and find their fortune at the last minute before they get on the boat one of the brothers sees a pretty woman and he goes I'll catch up with you and he falls in love and he never goes to America and the so they each are resenting each other. So that resentment has been passed down to the generation. So now we're the fourth generation, and we just know we don't talk to the Irish side of the family. And we don't talk to the American side of it. And so in the movie, it starts, Colm Meaney, he's a brilliant actor, and he's, that's Mrs. Meaney, and so anyway, his 88-year-old father who's very lively, but on his deathbed, so he says, he says, I want you to make peace. We can't solve the world's problems, but let's at least make peace with our family. Go find our Americans. And he goes, I don't know who they, find them, go. So he reaches out, and I go to Ireland. This is in the first five minutes of the movie, to try and make peace and bury this hatchet, because there's no reason, but we should be hating each other. And it doesn't go well, because there's a problem with people. People, if there's, no matter how small you make the sample group, we will find something to fight about.

MARK BAZER (01:48):
And nobody wants to analyze comedy, but there is this building of comedic tension throughout the movie. To the point where at one point Colm Meaney's character says, I'm gonna make you regret ever coming to Ireland, and your character says, oh, I already have.

Yeah yeah, if I had to have it pictured, I said it's a combination of two movies, The Local Hero and War of the Roses. It's like, it just escalates and escalates.

MARK BAZER (01:50):
And yet it's not like it's the whole thing and maybe it's because of you and him the way you play off each other you're never we're never upset about it.

Well was fun and what was to me was successful about it and what was was was fun to write and fun to play is like both these guys mean well. He says can we come over to my country and let's raise a pint in friendship. Okay! They mean well but one little misstep no I think he's screwing me oh I think he's screwing me and then it escalates from there because that's what we do if there's you know, any reason to get suspicious. and these grudges are held onto. You know, I remember my mother had, it was no longer Weathers, but for a year, always, she had some, what's the expression, some fly in her bonnet. She had some problem with one of my aunts. And I never knew why. And I said, well, what happened? She goes, she made a comment that I did not appreciate. I said, when was that? She goes, 1947. Oh my god, but we're defined by the biases that we hold on to, and so here's a movie of two guys trying to, let's not be that way, and it's hard.

MARK BAZER (01:52):
Yeah, so let's talk about, if we can, you're growing up for a second. Just go back real quick. There was a quote that has stuck with me. Years ago in the 90s, I read Couplehood, and I never forgot the quote from your dad at the very beginning of the book, which, yes, yes, which is, I remember. Which is, it's in the, whatever you, which is that happiness is the lull between problems.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MARK BAZER (01:54):
And so that's either intentionally funny, or unintentionally funny.

No, my dad, my, yeah. My dad was unintentionally funny. And he was very easygoing and he never, he was not a neurotic guy or a stressed guy. He kinda, he had a very open heart to the world. And, you know, and he had a couple of sayings that always stuck with me that I marvel at. You know, he was a very successful businessman. And often you go, gee, that guy, I think that guy's stealing from me. I think that guy's screwing you, whatever. And his thing was, look, you can walk around thinking everybody's going to screw you and once in a while you're going to be disappointed, or you can walk around thinking everybody's going to screw you and then once in a while you'll be surprised and be happy. Go the other way. Be happy most of the time, and if you have to be disappointed, you'll face it at the time. I thought, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't say it well, but yeah, his thing was, it was very realistic, very practical. You know happiness when there's not shit going wrong, then you could be happy. But there will be those things happen.

MARK BAZER (01:56):
I love that. That is a healthy, that is, did they shape your, what you found funny, or did that come from your friends? You spoke about, it was interesting, I was going to ask you, and I'll ask you this now, which is, Diner is about that, Diner is about guys who share a similar sensibility growing up, and obviously it took place in a different era than the one you grew up in, but we all kind of have that.

Well, you know, I think the ways, I think the ways, in my experience anyway, the ways that you're impacted or affected by your parents are subtle and you don't necessarily see them right away. You know, and I see that with my kids too. I see things start to, things that I said years ago or that I subconsciously even would say like, oh, they did hear that and they are, they did absorb that. They were funny. I mean we, my dad used to love to watch comedy and, you know, always watch the Red Skelton show. We used to laugh at, you know, or Buddy Hackett was on, that would be an excuse to stay up late. Well, Hackett's on Tonight Show. But he wasn't funny on his own, deliberately, but he would say things that I'll go, do you understand that that's funny? I wonder, somewhere, he stopped drinking coffee, because his doctor said, you gotta stop drinking coffee. And I said, I said, yeah, but I just saw you yesterday. He goes, oh, I'm having coffee, but it's tea. I go, well, then you're having tea. He goes, yeah, I'm having coffee, but it's not coffee in the cup, in the cup is tea. I went, it's tea, you're having a cup of tea. Why don't you say I'm having tea? But the activity was, I'm having coffee.

MARK BAZER (01:58):
Yeah, that makes sense. I get it.

It happens to be tea, but that's the kind of coffee it is. I went, holy shit, that's so.

MARK BAZER (02:00):
Do you consider yourself, and maybe it's just all of them, stand-up, writer, actor, does it matter?

One of the most challenging moments for me is when you gotta fill out a form and answer that one. I go, entertainer. What are you, a juggler?

MARK BAZER (02:02):
When do you have to fill out that form?

I don't know, on a passport or something like that. Or, you know, go to a new doctor and you gotta go, oh, it doesn't matter what I do. I'm a circus clown, okay? I'm a fire eater.

MARK BAZER (02:04):
I'd like a picture of you filling out the form at the doctor. Do you like it a little, filling out the form? They're asking about you. It's interesting.

I appeal to their better nature. I go, here's my name and my birth date. You don't need the other shit. Just take a look at this, would you? Did I have a... It doesn't matter what my parents...

MARK BAZER (02:06):
How many drinks you have each week, or whatever?

Yeah, just, what is this over here? I gotta think, it doesn't matter what I do.

MARK BAZER (02:08):
Do you go to the doctor a lot, or are you a person who wants to have the yearly checkup?

I, well, I never thought about how free, I don't know, I'm healthy-ish, but we live, we moved a little out of town. See, Chicago's a real city. L.A. is a bullshit city. True. I was saying before, I grew up in New York and Chicago feels like New York, just a little bit friendlier. They're not as angry. In L.A., people come to L.A. and go, where's downtown? I go, it's like another place over there, there's downtown, and they go, where's uptown? We don't have an uptown, we just have a downtown. You don't have an uptown?

MARK BAZER (02:10):
That's true, there's a downtown, no uptown.

Because it's over there, by the time you get there, you'll see here.

MARK BAZER (02:12):
Chicago does have an Uptown.

We live a little bit out of town and to the point that I don't go into town unless I realize all the doctors are there. So I'll be in town. What's the matter, you feeling okay? Yeah, I just got a dentist. But that's my only reason to go into town now is to get something removed or looked at.

MARK BAZER (02:14):
Before we hand it over to the audience, I have to ask, did you -

What if they're better than you?

MARK BAZER (02:16):
They probably will be. That's what always happens. Somebody will ask, they'll ask questions, which maybe we should have just done that from the beginning, and then I have the last 15 minutes.

I mean, I have great faith in them, but I don't want you to leave feeling badly. You're doing great.

MARK BAZER (02:18):
I knew you would be the one that would make me feel neurotic at the - thank you. Thank you.

Mark you're doing a great job.

MARK BAZER (02:20):
Did you, did you, did you write the, did you help write Michael McDonald's, uh book?

Michael McDonald of the Doobie Brothers fame. Yes, I wrote his book with him. It's his memoir.

MARK BAZER (02:22):
His memoir.

And I helped him write it.

MARK BAZER (02:24):
Wow, why? Where?

Why?

MARK BAZER (02:26):
Where did you write it?

Why?

MARK BAZER (02:28):
Together? Did you sit at the computer together?

So he was, I was a huge fan of Michael McDonald, you know Michael McDonald of the Doobie Brothers. So we went to a, I hate going to parties, I don't like going out, but we lived in a fancy neighborhood for a while and our fancy neighbors were having a thing and my wife said we have to go, I said I don't want to go, it's her birthday, I don't give a shi - OK. So we go, so we go to this fancy house, and there's Michael McDonald entertaining. I said, oh, these people are doing well. That's their entertainment, is Grammy-winning Michael McDonald, wow. So, and he's playing, and so afterwards I went over and just said what a big fan I am, in a burst of moxie that I don't always have, I said, you know, I live next door. I said, I have a music room with two pianos, and people always say, why do you need two pianos? I said, in case this ever comes up. That's why I have two pianos. I said, would you, you know, I was like asking him on a date, do you want to come over and fool around on the piano. He said, and to his credit, he goes, yeah, man, sure, no kidding. So we literally walked down my driveway.

MARK BAZER (02:30):
So you got to leave the party?

Fuck the party, yeah. Oh my God, where am I going? Yes, no, the party was terrible. But.

MARK BAZER (02:32):
He left his gig.

No, he finished, he was done. I didn't pull him. The check cleared, he got paid for the night. And then we sat at my two pianos and we played, you know, Beatles and Motown and and a couple of Mike McDonalds.

MARK BAZER (02:34):
Was he singing?

Yeah, and I would go on, and there's nobody there to go, “Deh!,” that was just me, it was me and him going, Mike McDonalds, and then we became friends, and so we would, and over these, so we would talk, and we would get together periodically, and then I would ask him questions that I never understood, because as much as a fan of his that I was, I never understood his trajectory, I didn't. And I didn't get certain things like, how could you be in the Doobie Brothers and Steely Dan? Don't you have to pick, you can't be on the Cubs and the Dodgers. You gotta pick, you gotta go with one team. And so I would ask him these questions, or when did you do this, and what was that, what's that, how did, what are the, and then I jokingly said, you know, you should write a book so I don't have to keep bothering you. Just write this stuff down. And he said, well, you know, I've thought of people have asked me, I don't know. I would, hey, I don't know how to write a book, and I don't even know if like it would be interesting. I don't know that my life is. I said, no, your life is interesting. He said, yeah, I don't know how to write a book. I said, well, I've written some books and this was March 2020. So COVID had, lockdown just happened. So we had nothing to do and the two of us had just figured out how to work Zoom. So to answer your question, we didn't see each other for three years. We just all on Zoom for like a month. We would just talk and I would ask him all over the map and he would just tell stories and I would then listen to it and transcribe it. And then over the next year or so, we would just go back and forth. But the thing was we hadn't, nobody bought it. I said, this is all on spec. I said, anytime you want to stop or, we don't have to do this. I said, but I think it'll be, as a fan, I'd love to read this. That was my reason. I just want to read your story. And he found, even though he was very reluctant, and he didn't think that his story was of particular interest, as the more he opened up, and he got very personal, very easily, I mean he was talking about his journey with drugs and sobriety, which was really the heart of the story. And he was very pleased when it was all done that it came out. So, but that made it easy, because there was no network, there was no publisher waiting for pages, it was like.

MARK BAZER (02:36):
And the best reason to write a book, you wanted to find out.

I'd like to read it.

MARK BAZER (02:38):
You were the journalist. Curious.

So it's his story, and I just helped him shape it.

MARK BAZER (02:40):
It would have been better if you and him had been in lockdown together. Forget the Zoom. What's your take on the term Yacht Rock? Is that -.

Oh, I hate the term Yacht Rock. It's controversial, because it sells it short. It sells it short. No, and you know, there were a lot of things, you know, that, he was very good natured about all these things.

MARK BAZER (02:42):
Should we take some better questions from the audience?

Yes, let's see how they can do. Look at all these nice people.

AUDIENCE MEMBER 1 (02:44):
Hi! I got to know you really well in the 80s when I was bored and going to the dollar movie. And I loved you in Aliens. Why have you not played a bad guy like that?

Why did I play a bad guy?

Why did you and why haven't you followed up with another bad guy role?

Well, the funny thing was, that was another movie, that's another experience that came out of nowhere, I didn't think that I was going to be in there, I went to an audition with James Cameron and ended up being in Aliens, I was thinking, I have no business being in this movie, and my running joke for the last 35 years, when people say, Why did you play a bad guy and I always say that you say bad I say misunderstood. So, cut two, this is how, again, somebody came to me with an idea like two years ago. He said, what do you think about a TV show, your character, Burke, he doesn't die, he lives. Where would he be now? I said, that's really funny. So, we, and they sold it to Marvel. They said, let's make a comic book before we do a show. So we, there is, you can get, wherever you get comic books, I don't know if this is the comic book crowd, because I'm not a comic book guy. But there was five episodes of, and my son, my youngest son, who's 24, and this was like his first foray into writing, it was four of us, but it was mostly him and these other guys, I did a little, and you find out, Burke was not a bad guy at all. There was a very good reason that what happened happened. He didn't mean to lock Sigourney Weaver and the kid with the thing, that, it was a workplace accident, that could happen. It's not unheard of. But I kinda like playing, not a bad, I mean that guy, you know, he did some bad things. But you know, getting to play, as I get older too, playing the cantankerous old Jew is getting more and more feeling right.

MARK BAZER (02:48):
You're kind of that in The Boys, the show, you're not a great, kind of a Robert Evans type character.

Oh yeah it was very Robert Evans, it was very an old-time Hollywood-ish mogul. It's very fun. It's very fun to, as you say, say whatever you want and not worry about being correct or being polite. But if you have a script, call me. Don't be shy.

Hey, I watched the special last night knowing I was gonna see you here today, and great set. Everybody should watch it on Amazon Prime.

There you go, thank you.

So I'm wondering if doing it, it's like riding a bike, or is it like riding a bike going, Oh, I used to ride a bike but now -

About getting back into doing stand-up?

Yeah.

I thought it would be like riding a bike, because I hadn't done stand-up for like 20 years. And when I called up the club and went back a few years ago, it's more like riding, it's like pushing a bike uphill with your eye. It's a little harder. It was interesting, so the bike is involved, but ease is not involved. It was, when I went back to the clubs after having not done it, it was weird because, first, I didn't really have material and I didn't have the confidence. And I had the sense memory, I'm like, I know the muscles weren't firing, and I liken it to, if you play ball, if you're a basketball player, but you don't play for a couple of years, the muscles just don't fire. You know where it's supposed to go and you know how to do it, but it took a while, it took a full year before I could have the nerve to try and sell a ticket and have people come. But it's been like, I guess, 10 years that I'm back doing it, and I still find I'm, oh, now I get it. Oh, now I know what to do. It's sort of a moving goalpost, which is what I love about stand-up, is like, I don't feel like I ever got it 100% right. The end of my show, the last line should always be, it's gonna be better tomorrow. I'm sorry you had to sit through this.

I am one who gets very easily starstruck, so could you please tell me what it's like to work with Alan Arkin and Michael Douglas?

Yeah, well Alan Arkin is another one, you know, I've gotten to work, I've been so fortunate and I've worked with people that I idolize, I mean Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner and Peter Falk and Alan Arkin, Alan Arkin and Peter Falk were my two acting idols, heroes, whatever the word is. And I didn't get to work with him too much on Kominsky Method, we only had one, one or two scenes together, but I remember, we had a scene, and Alan Arkin kept laughing. And he said, you know, not a lot of guys make me laugh, but you always make me laugh. And I went, all right, freeze that, freeze that. Let me take that to the, put that in the vault, wow. I made Alan Arkin, so that was a wonderful day. And Michael D-, I had worked with a little, one scene in a movie that Michael Douglas produced years ago. It was very close to being a good movie. Could have been. It was called One Night at McCool's and it was pretty good. Michael was in it and and he produced it. So I'd met him. Here's how dumb I can be. Michael Douglas has been a, he's like been a star for forty-something years, but he's you know you don't think of him necessarily is like, you know, DeNiro, Pacino, you know, Brando. He's just but so we're doing the first scene we're doing together in the Kominsky Method in in a car and was just sitting like this and he's talking kind of softly and he's throwing away and in my head, I'm thinking, I don't think he's very good. I don't think he's going to like this when he sees it because I can't hear him and he's fucking not doing anything. And then I watch it and I go, oh, he's a genius. He's perfect, he's absolutely perfect. And I was all over the place. But he's just so subtle and specific and accurate. I went, oh, that's why you're a big star. You're very good. You're very good at what you do.

MARK BAZER (02:58):
This is the second time you've talked about how when you're acting, you're also thinking about other things, which I like. Is that true for the acting profession, or should you be more locked in?

Just the bottom tier. Not the big guys, but at my level that's all we do is like, dang, I'm gonna have a tuna melt after this scene. It's funny, I don't think I'm always elsewhere, but I'm always struck to find out that people have other things going. I remember seeing an interview with Billy Joel, and he talks about certain songs that he's played so often that in the middle of the song he's thinking, what am I going have a dinner, I think you go what? I guess it's not just me. They're doing very well. I would say it's a tie, them and you. Very close, very close.

MARK BAZER (03:00):
Make this bad, make this bad.

No, no, she's going to be great.

Oh, well, forgive me. First of all, big fan. I used to do stand-up and watched you as a kid when I was watching Caroline's Comedy Club and all these. So this is a bucket list item. So thank you for being here.

Thank you, that's so sweet.

Thank you, Phillip, for bringing Paul Reiser. So in the 80s, my favorite show was My Two Dads. So, I'm also a big Monkees fan, and I wanted to know how you felt about working with Davy Jones not once, but twice.

A Monkee fan.

And then, I'm sorry, I have a follow-up question after that, too, so. Just -

You're presuming I can hang on to the first two.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 4” No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. I would love to have a follow-up question after you answer that.
Davy Jones. What? Oh, no. It gets into Davy Jones. What was the next follow-up question?

The follow-up question would be, would you be at all interested and or have you been to the Beatles Fest here in Chicago?

Uh, I went years ago to a Beatle thing, uh, uh, I don't know that I would need to do it again. No, I'm a, you know, we're all huge, I'm a huge Beatle guy. I was saying to you before, there's certain... you know, like when they come out with a new release of remastering, I actually, the last couple of rounds of Beatle release, I go, I'm good. I think I got, I got the old, I got the old album.

MARK BAZER (03:12):
YBut you have three, right? You've got like three copies of Sgt. Pepper?

Yeah, I was like, okay, I hear the difference, but I was good with the first two, you know. Um, but I did when I was, when we were doing Aliens, which we shot in London, and I had a couple days off and I did the Liverpool tour and went to, there's John's house and there was Ringo's house and so yes, I was a big fan, but I think I'm good. And what was the other? Oh, Davy Jones. So the Davy Jones, Davy Jones of the Monkeys was on, um, with Peter Noone of the Herman's Hermits. He was his manager, or one of them was the manager, I don't remember. But, um, my other, Greg Evigan, the other dad on the show, we were both kind of enamored the same way I was now with Mel Brooks. We're going, it's Davy Jones. And there was a scene where he comes in singing "Here -" they come in drunk and they go, "Here we come, walking down the street." And I remember Greg Evigan had to stop and go, hang on, I just got to grasp the concept that I'm singing this with Davy Jones. Wait a second, if I can remember this story. Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits. Okay, this has nothing to do with anything, but it was one of my favorite showbiz stories. So Peter Noone, do you remember Herman's Hermits? So, okay, all right, because you're old. Okay, so. I'm not talking to the young people, I'm talking to my people. So he would tell stories, which is, you know, you have a lot of time during the day. So Peter Noone was telling stories and he, when they first came on the Ed Sullivan show, he was 16, Peter Noone - not Ed. So because he was young, Ed Sullivan kind of took him under his wing and he took him to church with his wife on Sunday. It's that over the years, it would change in like, you know, Peter's now.

MARK BAZER (03:14):
Ed Sullivan took him under his wing?

Yeah, when you're 16, you come have a home-cooked meal, and we'll go to church, and Peter's going ok. But he said, towards the end, Ed was starting to get a little old and farchadat, as the French would say. And he said he was introducing one of these, you know, plate spinning acts, one of these, and Ed forgot the name of the act in the middle of the intro, and what he said was, "And now, please welcome, from Samoa... The Samoans!"

MARK BAZER (03:16):
That's a good save.

I just I said, that's my favorite show this story ever. It's not wrong, there's a lot of Samoans. By definition, but I'm sure they have a name. The Samoans!

Hi, I was curious about your thoughts and your feelings around aging, actually, because I think it's a challenge for a lot of us, but a lot of us don't have recordings of us when we're 20 and 30 years old that millions of people watch, so just curious what you think.

Help me?

MARK BAZER (03:20):
Help you with what the question was or answering it?

Just isolate the question.

MARK BAZER (03:22):
Their question was, how do you feel about the fact that you are now older? That was the question, right? Is that what you meant? But also, you can look back, unlike a lot of us, and watch yourself when you are more spry.

Yes. I, I - listen, here's the truth, I, and my friends will attest to this, I've been 80 since I'm 20.

MARK BAZER (03:24):
That's the best way to always have that.

So when it comes, I'm ready, you know what I mean, I've been preparing. I embrace it and it's funnier than being 20. I just, we just did an episode, we, me, I was just in Toronto shooting another episode of The Boys, it was the only second episode I did, and this is how I embrace and incorporate my creative choices into my aging. The scene says, "walks in and walks into a room and they're looking for clues and there's a piece of paper on the floor, he looks at it and then he throws it down." I went, what if it was on a table? [Laughter] I said, I'm going to save you time, you're going to lose half a day, it's not the bending, it's the getting up will be like a half an hour. Ow! And they go, good idea, put it on a table. I said, there you go.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 6 Hiya.
Hello.

You actually were in another movie with Michael Douglas Behind the Candelabra, the Liberace film. I was wondering if you could talk briefly how that was, how you got involved and working with Steven Soderbergh.

I had one day on that. That was when I said before, the day, like as soon as I decided to get out of the house and do stand-up, some kind of portal opened. And literally like a week later I got this call, can you come down tomorrow and be in this scene with Michael Douglas and Matt Damon? I went, okay, yes. I went, really, they haven't cast anybody, they're shooting tomorrow, they don't have anybody?

MARK BAZER (03:30):
And what's the film called again?

Yes, it was the Liberace movie, where Michael Douglas was Liberace. Matt Damon was his boy toy. And so it was literally that, and I got a call, and I'm assuming somebody dropped out because it was late in the day. But it was a conference room, and I was Matt Damon's lawyer, I think. And it was Matt Damon and Michael Douglas, Dan Aykroyd, and somebody else. And they were just sitting, telling showbiz stories between takes, and I went, this is, this is, I love the downtime more than the acting. I love the snacks and the bullshit between the scenes. But you gotta go to work to get the bullshit in the snacks.

MARK BAZER (03:32):
But that's interesting you say that because I've heard people who say it's just a lot of sitting around and that's a complaint.

That it is a complaint. When I was in Toronto going, boy, there's a lot of sitting around. But if you fill it productively, because, you know, if you've just eaten M&M's all day, that's no good. But if you're with people that you enjoy being with, that's fun. So in that particular case, it was my first day out of the house in eight years, so it was, that was in itself. And my, I remember my, here's why you should never talk in front of your children. So, my older boy, Ezzy, who has no filter, he'll just say, and you have to go, mm, actually I don't know where he heard, so he was very excited to come to the set and meet Michael Douglas. This was 2012 or something, so he's about, he was like 12, 15, I don't know. Anyway, so, he got to meet him, and I was on the set, and they were, whatever, off the set, and Michael Douglas comes over to me, he goes, well, I just met your son, Ezra. I said, uh-oh. Uh-oh, that doesn't sound good. What did he say? He goes, well, he was very sweet. He came over and he said, oh, Mr. Douglas, I heard you're very big, but your father was bigger. I don't know where he got that, I don't know. He just intuited it.

MARK BAZER (03:34):
That's true. How would the 12-year-old know who Kirk Douglas was? Fantastic.

But he laughed, so okay.

I just want to first thank you for bringing up My Two Dads because I was dying for it, it didn't come up in the career spanning conversation. So got a bone to pick with you, but I actually just discovered it I'm watching it for the first time because Staci Keanan is doing a rewatch podcast of Step by Step and I was just wondering if you would ever do a rewatch podcast for My Two Dads and follow up if I started a My Two Dads rewatch podcast, would you guess on it?

If you did it? Yes, I would, but nobody else. I haven't seen Staci Keanan since she's 14, so she must be 50s now? She's, yeah, Jesus Christ. What's happened to me? This goes back to the question about how do you feel about being old. I was fine up until I just did that math.

I really enjoyed the show Reboot. And I was wondering if -

Me too.

You wanted to hear your thoughts on that and about its premature cancelation.

Yeah, it was a very short-lived, we did one season of 10 or 12, and it was on Hulu, it was really fun. And I got, that was another thing where, it was just before I was gonna go to Ireland to make Problem with People, and I said, okay, I'd love to do this, but it's gotta be, we gotta be done by here, because I can go, and they said, we'll get you done. But it was, the cast was, you know, Keegan-Michael Key and Johnny Knoxville and Rachel Bloom. Judy Greer, and all these wonderful people. Steve Levitan, Chicago. Isn't he from Chicago? Steve Levitan? I think he is. All right. With a lack of clapping, no, he's from Egypt. He's not from here at all. Steve Levitan co-created Modern Family. So it was his pedigree. I said, yeah, that'd be great. So it was, and I had read the script, and I said, this is great. And the character was a guy, the premise of Reboot is a show that was sort of a wholesome family type show, like Full House or something, is gonna come back 20 years later because all these reboots were happening. But now all the cast, they don't get along, and the guy who created it wants to make it like it used to be, but his daughter, the writer, wants to make it socially relevant and hip. And so I said, well, this is really perfect fun. And it was a little bit of a mind blowing for me because it was a show about making a show. So we'd be on a stage, but that was not really, it was the pretend stage, and I would get confused. I remember we were shooting a scene, and the end of the scene was, okay, now we're going to go over to the kitchen set. Cut. And then we, whatever. I walked over to the kitchen set. There was no extra scene. I just, oh, that was part of the scene. It was so real that I'm standing here, nobody's showing, oh, oh, I'm really dumb or dedicated, one of the two. But the reason it was, yeah, we were all surprised and disappointed that it didn't get picked up. We thought, this is easy, no brainer. It was a really good cast and great writers. The only reason it got canceled, some of the execs at Hulu, not all of them, some executives at Hulu... are assholes. Not naming names, I'm just saying scattered among the good ones. And that's the reason it didn't get picked up.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 9 Loved Reboot.
Oh thank you.

So we got to see Helen Hunt in Goodman's Betrayal.

If you run... She's on stage right now.

She sends her love.

Thank you.

Will you get to see her?

I want to see her too. Are you her cousin? You seem very close.

A distant.

Yes, we're going to get together tomorrow.

A distant cousin, yeah. It was great.

Yes. Yeah, I had to be in and out of Chicago. I didn't get to see the play. I'm disappointed. But I asked her to act it out over lunch tomorrow, so they're, not the other guys, just her part. So I'll be out of there in like 40 minutes.

I'm curious about how you've approached the art of stand-up, especially in the early days. Were you going to 10 open mics a week, and how did you work on your writing and improving your joke-telling?

How did, how did I approach the special or -

MARK BAZER (03:56):
No no just growing like starting out as a stand-up. Did you.

It was English, and I recognize so many of the words, I just couldn't put it together.

MARK BAZER (03:58):
What's it like to be old? No.

I think you see yeah, you see.

MARK BAZER (04:00):
No, no like did you was it, I'm gonna do five open mic nights every Saturday am I gonna like go from you know, gig to gig. How did you develop jokes? How did you over time realize what worked what didn't is that what is that kind of the question?

Why would you say that? But it took me years to actually want to do this special. Because very selfishly, it's like, well, then I've got to throw out that material. Everybody will have seen it. The good news is nobody's seen this special. But no, after a couple of years being out on the road, I would say, okay, these are bits I think that will best and work together. And then once I had... 90 minutes then I did a little bit more touring than I usually do and so for about six months I was doing you know clubs were fun I would do a lot of theaters but go to a club where you can do a smaller intimate and four shows in a weekend and really hone it down to getting its best and then of course you get into editing and you go you know what that doesn't work at all and then you make it as polished and as good so what was 90 minutes then I would ultimately shoot 75 minutes and then get it down to 55 minutes. Ultimately it's gonna be one joke then I go that's what I wanted to say that's the essence

MARK BAZER (04:02):
Was it similar when you were coming up originally? Were you, when you were in your 20s? Was it, were you, was it I want to get on any stage I can get on?

I think when I went first time to Catch a Rising Star in New York and auditioned, I think the fantasy, it wasn't really a plan, but the fantasy goal would be to get on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. That was the end of the rainbow. That was as far as I could see. And I guess, I'm sure I thought, well, once that happens, some other things will happen. But that was the pot of gold. You know, somebody said, you know, when you're a comedian, getting on The Tonight Show is the easiest thing because when you're good, then you'll be ready. They want you, they want you to be good. Getting good, that's the hard part. But the minute you're good enough, that's the, they're gonna call you. And, you know, and as I said before, I didn't sort of pass the audition. I didn't get on, I didn't break that hurdle. But once I did, something happened, I only, one time I did stand-up the first time in 82 with Diner and you know I didn't get called over to the couch which would have been the extra little cherry on the ice cream and then a couple of years later I guess it was maybe when Aliens came out I did the show with Johnny Carson and I didn't stand-up I went straight to the couch and something clicked and it was really easy and Johnny took a shine to me, and there was a period, those like 86 to 89, I looked back, I was on a lot, like much more than I think I clocked at the time. And I've seen a few over the years, like by the third or fourth time, I got comfortable. I wasn't so reverential. I just like, oh, Johnny wants you to be good. He, and he was masterful. You know, if you were doing great and your stuff was working, he would sit back. If it wasn't, he would, you know, give you a new question, he would come in, or he would make fun of how it wasn't working, and that would be funny.

MARK BAZER (04:04):
Which he was the best at.

He was fantastic. I remember one time I had, I remember what the movie, it was a movie, and I thought it would be funny, instead of coming on like every actor would, here's a clip from the movie. I came on, and the premise was, you know, we were gonna have a clip, Johnny, but, uh they lost a thing, so I had an artist draw up these cards, and this'll give you an indication. So I had a friend draw these stupid stick figures, and this is me driving, and this is, yeah. And it just wasn't going well. It wasn't as funny as I had hoped, but that became the joke, and Johnny would just look at me, he goes, ah, this is your funeral, keep going. And so that's as good as, that's better than if the joke's like, okay. And yeah, and I don't take it lightly. He was really so, he had me on often, and he was, that's the thing, he wants, when you said who's your favorite, he was - he wanted you to do good and was always in service of the comedians. He loved comedians and he looked good if you look good.

MARK BAZER (04:06):
Right right.

And that's why I think his scouts, you know people who screen for comics they go I just want to please Johnny, is Johnny gonna like this guy enough? And something clicked once I sat down with him. It was much it was a much more comfortable medium for me to just shpritz with him.

MARK BAZER (04:08):
I love that.

Hi, thanks. Can you talk about the genesis of Carl Reiner, a.k.a. Alan Brady, being on, I guess it was a couple episodes of Mad About You?

I think he was just the one. Yeah, Carl Reiner, who was one of our heroes, and he, so he came on Mad About You and he played Alan Brady, and he shared with us that he had turned down offers to be on any number of sitcoms but he found it very funny that, the idea that he was gonna recreate a fictitious character, bring it into our world. And so, and we even did like a joke where like, he walked around the ottoman and didn't trip, and went, we're really messing with reality here. But the crazy thing, and I hope I have this right, we had a joke that, in the story, and we did, the fictitious story, he dug up a, an old tape, or we dug up an old tape of the Alan Brady show from 1950s. And the story was Helen, it was Helen in a wig and black and white and everything. And the story in our show was Helen goes, oh my God, my grandmother was on the Alan Brady show? We made that up. Turns out Helen's grandmother, was not on Alan Brady, but she was a showrunner for an NBC show in the 50s and went, how do we not know that when somebody else wrote that? That's crazy.

MARK BAZER (04:11):
That is crazy. There's another story from that episode that you've told, which is about a joke, I think, or a line about Sid Caesar, and Carl Reiner didn't want to do it because he thought it would be mean to Sid Caesar in real life, even though it had nothing to do with it. Which was a testament to his character.

We were talking before, I wrote this little book. It's not even a book. What is it called?

MARK BAZER (04:13):
Kindle Single.

Kindle Single. Which sounds like a song your grandmother would sing. Yeah, it was only available in a little e-book. And it was just a collection of memories and things that I've learned from these people that I've been lucky enough to work with. The story with Carl, on the show, the story within the show. We were trying to get Alan Brady to narrate a documentary or something, and he was playing hard to get. And I said, "Watch, I'll, what's the reverse psychology, I go, oh don't worry Alan, we'll get Sid Caesar." And of course he goes, "Oh, if you get Sid Caesar, okay I'll do it." So we would shoot Monday, we would rehearse Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday we would shoot. Something was not sitting right, that joke was, something was bothering Carl, He didn't know what I didn't know what Friday, the day we're shooting, like 7:30 in the morning, he calls me at home. He says, "I know what's bothering me." I said, "well," he goes, "We say, 'You say you get Sid Caesar,' but then I end up doing it. So that makes Sid look bad." I went, "It's fiction. We didn't really get Sid Caesar. I was just saying, it's clear that I'm saying that to, I'm saying that only to get Alan Brady to say yes." He goes, "Yes, but the audience doesn't know that." I went, "Wow. Wow." So what struck me was A, what a decent guy he was. That he was sitting with, something was bugging him all week that something might reflect badly on Sid, who was his peer and colleague but also his boss. And they still, to the end, they still always, revered Sid as if they were the young writers. They were all 80s, and they're going, well, let Sid tell. But what really struck me also was the level of commitment that he could have let it fly. It wasn't just that it bothered him. He wanted it all to be wrapped up. And I was like, he doesn't need to work this hard. He's Carl Reiner, and he's in his 80s or 70s, whatever he was at the time, but he didn't want anything to go out that wasn't as best as it could be. And I said, we can't rewrite this script. I said, "What if I," and I forget what the solution was, but it was simple. I go, "What if I just say, later in the show, I just say, 'Don't worry, I called Sid, I let him down easy.'" And Alan Brady goes, "Oh okay." And Carl goes, "That'll work, that's fine." So I went wow, that's a special guy.

MARK BAZER (04:15):
Unbelievable. I think that's a great place to end this. Thank you everyone. Paul Reiser!

Thank you so much. Thanks for coming.
[Audience applause]
[Theme music plays]

ALISA ROSENTHAL (04:19):
To learn more about Paul Reiser, head to the show notes or chicagohumanities.org.
Chicago Humanities Tapes is produced and hosted by me, Alisa Rosenthal, with help from the hardworking staff over at Chicago Humanities who are producing the live events and making them sound great. If you’ve been enjoying our programming, the best way to support the podcast is to leave a rating and review, click subscribe to be notified about new episodes, and send your favorite episode to someone you think would like it. And hey we want to hear what you think! You can fill out the short survey in the show notes to help shape the future of the podcast. We’ll be back in two weeks with another new episode for you, but in the meantime, stay human.
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