DDR 043 - Jordan Harbertson: Mt Ops to Blk Flg - Don't Die Rusty Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I'm just gonna grab one thing real quick and then let's kick this off.
Alright, sounds good.

(00:29):
Okay
Yeah, right.
Take her away, Captain.
The helm's yours.
how do you want me to introduce you, Jordan Harbison?
Yeah, you can just introduce me old Jordan Harbertson, you know, founder of Mountain Opsand now founder of Black Flag and family man entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, like.

(00:55):
That's why I like, that's why I wanted to talk to you.
So, all right.
All right.
Hello, Don't Die Rusty Nation.
You're here with me, Rick Hansen today.
And I am lucky enough to have Jordan Harbertson, the founder of Mountain Ops and now BlackFlag.

(01:20):
And it's funny because I've known Jordan since,
since Total Archer Challenge days, that's why I put on the cap.
you know, we've got to, you know, we've got to meet a lot more than just that.
We go down to the Hunting Expo, we've talked there.
And you know, what really, and I should let you introduce yourself here a little bitbetter than I can.

(01:43):
But if you would do that, Jordan, tell people a little bit about yourself.
And then I'm gonna go into a story that really, really...
you might not remember, but I remember.
we're going to go into that.
So Jordan, you want to tell a little bit about yourself?
And it's also funny, his wife's name is Jordan too.
I was actually just going to say the thing that precedes me the most is, you know, usuallyit's your namesake, right?

(02:10):
And so you look at, it's usually your last name, you know, people, that's usuallysomething that's usually unique and people are like, I remember that person's last name,
you know, and, obviously Jordan, you know, I usually, I'm overshadowed by the goat,Michael Jordan.
So that name is already taken or,
the great river Jordan that Jesus was baptized in.

(02:31):
Like there's all these great Jordans and then there's me and the greatest Jordan of all ismy wife, Jordan.
And so again, I'm overshadowed by all these Jordans.
So it's funny, most people don't even know my last name, like really close, not friends,but like new acquaintances that I've made in life because we're Jordan.
So we're just known as the Jordans.

(02:52):
They're like, yeah, you know the Jordans?
Jordan and Jordan gathered, they're great.
and it's usually them talking about my wife because she's great.
and she carries, she carries us as a couple, but yeah, man, a little, little bit about me.
been a, been a born and raised entrepreneur, all my life, pretty much.

(03:12):
mean, my father, entrepreneur, my, my, my dad's father was an entrepreneur and my dad'sdad's dad is so I'm like a fourth generation Harvard's an entrepreneur.
so
kind of bred into the family, but I started my entrepreneurship when I was eight.
And that started with little businesses and hustles that I went through both elementary,junior high and high school, making money, just finding ways to make money and sell

(03:41):
things.
And then got into marketing at 14 years old.
So I started working for a marketing firm, but I started in graphic design.
Then I went into and kind of
graduated into a marketing director there and worked with a lot of outdoor brands, whichwe actually had.
One of the brands that I focused on most was Easton, a family here in Utah that mostpeople in the outdoor industry will know, Easton Arrows, as well as they had at the time,

(04:08):
they actually had their Sporting's company at the time.
Did that for a while.
Then my brother and I, Casey, started our own marketing firm and we kind of did a fullstack digital agency.
because it was the beginning of the digital commerce era, know, this was literally about15 years ago when we started it.

(04:29):
And so that was like right at the beginning of like Instagram getting bought by Facebookand Facebook and Instagram becoming like this new, you know, multi social media verse.
And then you had Twitter and you had all these things, these tools, Google that were justblowing up and brands were running to figure out how do I like use these to build my

(04:49):
company.
And then fast forward after we started that, I started, I can't believe Rick, it's been 10years, a decade, Casey and I and a couple other partners started Mountain Ops.
And it's been 10 years and we launched Mountain Ops at Total Archie Challenge to thepublic in 2014 with good old Sean DeGray at the Bird.

(05:17):
And then since then,
As we'll probably get into it later.
I've now since started a new venture with Casey and it's called Black Flag.
And there's a lot there that we can cover a little bit later as we, as we chat, but that'sjust a little bit about me.
And that's, that's kind of the career business side as a father.
I'll say this.
I've got four wonderful, beautiful children.
My oldest son is Peyton.

(05:39):
My second oldest is Kenton.
I've got my daughter, Anniston that owns me, right?
Like I'm wrapped up in her.
And then my youngest is Lincoln.
and then my wife Jordan.
we've got a wonderful family and we're just out here in Utah and trying to live the bigold dream that's been promised to all of us here in America.

(05:59):
Well, and that's where it's funny that you say what you're saying there because about thefamily and stuff, because I don't know if you remember, we were down at the honey next
boat and you were talking to John Barclay at the time and I walked up to you and we were,you, we had kind of talked about how I'd like to go to New York for Christmas sometime

(06:20):
with my wife to show her something other than.
total archer, you know, she's not a hunter, but she goes with me to these places.
And so, you know, like every place we were going happened to be hunting related.
And I said, you know, I would like to take her to New York for a Christmas, you know, seethe Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center and do the stuff.

(06:47):
And you know what, you took the time to stand there.
I bet we stood there a half hour or longer and you said,
You get a hold of me.
I'll tell you where to go eat.
I'll tell you what to do.
You know, the good places to go.
And, and that's what I liked about talking to you, Jordan, because, you know, like I said,that these are the places we meet, but for you to take the time and say, you know, give me

(07:10):
a call.
I'll tell you, give you some tips there.
Cause I had no, I'm, I'd rather be wake up in the middle than in nowhere than in New Yorkcity.
But I'd rather have a tip there, you know,
You're like, need a plan.
Like this city, listen, and Rick, you can get me talking about New York City.
I I lived there for a few years and it's a second home to me.

(07:34):
I love the city.
I lived in some of the boroughs there as well as I lived kind of along the Hudson up inkind of a little bit more central New York and even all the way up into West Point where
the military college is at and facility.
And I remember, dude, I remember this conversation.
absolutely remember it.

(07:54):
love Barclay.
That guy's one of my favorite people.
Like that, that was, you know, for me, it's like, dude, you were literally, I could telllike you had anxiety.
You're like, dude, I, want to know where I can go because that city is overwhelming.
It really is.
Like it's, if you don't have a plan for New York, New York will gobble you up because

(08:14):
with all the buildings and the high rises, navigating the city, you know, even with yourphone can be a little daunting and there's noise and you're overstimulated from just the
busyness of it all.
it's the city that never sleeps and it's true, it's a fact.
yeah, dude, I'm a foodie.
So I was like, Rick, dude, I'll take you to the best pizza places, get you the best dirtydogs, the good ones, the best like places to eat.

(08:41):
Cause I would always have friends go there, Rick.
And they'd go there and they would be like, Hey dude, I'm here.
And like, I'm in Times Square.
Like, where should we go eat?
And I'd be like, dude, just, go down, you know, just about a couple of blocks.
There's a place called Giovanni's.
It's an amazing Italian place.
It's just off of Broadway.
Like if you go a couple of blocks or like, yeah, we were thinking of going to like OliveGarden and I was like, my gosh, guys, like you're in New York and you want to go to Olive

(09:07):
Garden?
Like, come on.
So.
I mean, man, that's I appreciate you saying that.
You know, I think I think it says a lot about people about how much time you're willing tospend with someone.
And I think we all got a clock and a shot clock in our lives.
It's constantly resetting because we got a lot going on.

(09:29):
You get busy on this or busy on that when you're having a conversation with someone.
I know sometimes I think sometimes people are unintentionally a little.
maybe not as engaging and that can be personality.
But dude, my problem is this, you guys are going to find it on this podcast.

(09:49):
I talk a lot.
I like to talk.
So if I can get into a good conversation with Rick talking about New York, we're going tohave it, dude.
Well, well, you know, I mean that just that is set with me and that's been, I bet that'sbeen three or four years ago.
If not longer, you know, and
I think it was probably, that was actually probably five or six years ago.

(10:13):
Yeah, it's been a minute.
you know, and, and she, that's why I tried to do this podcast too, is cause the impact ofthe, try to get impactful people.
And when you impact me that I can remember that so that single conversation that we hadthat long ago and how it, you know, to take the time to just get out though, that

(10:36):
information, you know, about pizzas and dogs and all kinds of stuff, you know,
And this is how you should do it.
That impressed me and it makes, you don't know what you do to people until you hear that.
You wouldn't have known how it impacted me at that time, but it did.

(10:58):
And that's why, like, this is where we go.
Cause like you said, I met you, probably, at Snowbird probably, cause I remember
I remember, cause I never miss a snowbird tat.
I was going to say you're a veteran.
Like it's, you are not going to miss a year.

(11:20):
It's, would say that the, guys that I think have never missed the year of the bird, right?
When the bird, when we were always doing it, the bird, you and Isaac Oly model, the two ofyou are like, and his son, junior, like every year you're like, you're going to see Rick
and you're going to see Isaac always at the bird at total archer challenge.
And, and it was, and it was such a, that place is special because that's where.

(11:45):
Total Archer Challenge was born and that's where Mountain Ops was born to the public.
know, most people don't even know this, Rick, but at the time this was in 2013 as we wereideating and creating.
And then in 2014, early in 2014, we kind of dialed in everything we wanted to do.
And we had the brand name, you I came up with the name of the company.

(12:08):
my partner Joel designed that beautiful M.O.
shill that everybody iconically knows now.
Casey worked effortlessly to develop a brilliant plan to, to, to come to market with.
And then we sat there we're like, I remember this was in June and we're like, dude, where.
And how do we like, do we launch this like to the public?

(12:29):
And, and, we had a salesman that was working for us at our marketing firm.
Cause we had started Mountain Ops while we were still doing our marketing firm business.
And his name was Rich Coles.
He actually owned a company at the time called Hunter's Nation, that he has since sold to,I can't remember the gentleman locally.
That's, that's very politically involved in, in wildlife conservation, but,

(12:54):
Rich had a 100's Nathan Nation booth at the Bird or the Torture Challenge back then.
And so he said, hey, I've already got a booth.
If you guys give me a cooler and some samples, like I'll just sit there at the base asthey come off the mountain because they always come down off the mountain right here
before they drop down the zigzag and then go down to like the base.

(13:15):
I'll just, I'll just make sure everyone gets one.
So this was literally the day before the event and we're like,
Okay.
Let's, let's do that.
So, Casey runs to Home Depot literally buys, and I've got a picture here.
I'm going to pull this picture up.
so for anybody watching the podcast, you guys can see this picture as I explain it.

(13:38):
And I'll obviously articulate it for those, those of you that are listening, but Caseyruns to Home Depot and, grabs a, orange Home Depot cooler.
Cause we are, our color was orange.
Yeah.
I ran to Alpha Graphics and bought and built a sticker that would go over top of HomeDepot's logo.

(13:59):
So it looked like it was Art Cooler.
And then we filled it and mixed it and we ran it up the mountain.
And this is the very first picture.
This is the historical picture when Mountain Outs was first launched to the public.
Right there.
As you can see, that's Rich with his Hunter's Nation t-shirt on.
That's the cooler.
And that's Mountain Ops sticker over the top and that's him handing it out to all theshooters.

(14:22):
And so this is an iconic, this is the, like I said, this is historical.
This is the first picture of Mountain Ops ever being introduced, ever being in the public.
And it was it, Total Art's a Challenge at the Perg, where you are a legend at.
Well, I don't know about that, but I know I have fun there, you know, because I believe Ilook at all these things when you go to a TAC and everybody seems to be serious and I'm

(14:50):
thinking, you know, foam doesn't bleed and you can joke around and I think you've seen it.
We get in each other's faces when we're trying to shoot and make fun of each other.
it's just, it's, and then it's funny and I'm not trying to.
trying to be something or not, I like you were there like when I was, I had a speaker onbe long before a lot of other people and we'd have those happy songs coming down the

(15:20):
trails, you know, and those are fun days.
legend, Rick, because nobody can, any of the early people that ever were part of orexperienced tack at the bird in those earlier days.
And the vibe, you know, the vibe's still the same in many ways.
It's, you go to different total archer challenges and every community's got a little vibe,but dude, you set a kind of a fun cultural experience at the bird with.

(15:48):
You know, I still remember the speaker and you just hear you guys in your group comingdown.
You guys, you're like, dude, those guys are having a party and you got guys that aresitting there like dialed up and they're like, man, I'm going to make sure I hit the X and
you're out there just like, Hey, let's send it, it, send it.
Let's have some fun.
And so I think again, like it's, it's a mentality thing.

(16:10):
I mean, you can have fun being serious at talk, but you can have fun playing music andhaving fun with the boys and the girls.
so.
You know, it's a special place and I have a lot of, I know you do too.
I have a lot of love and a lot of appreciation for Sean DeGray.
He arguably, and I've said this to many people, I have a lot of favorite people in mylife.

(16:32):
Like you're one of my favorite people.
He's one of my favorite people.
You get to know Sean DeGray and he's just the most genuine, kind, thoughtful, serving.
funny and, and loving person you would ever meet.

(16:52):
He's, and what he's done with Toll Archer Challenge, what he took it from, what you sawearly on and what it's become is all credit to his vision for what he wanted to accomplish
with it and all the help of Monica and the entire Toll Archer team.
And all the man hours that went into setting up targets on the mountain, taking them down,setting up the base camp.

(17:14):
Like there's so much work that goes in that event.
Everybody just shows up with their ticket and their bows and their arrows.
And, Monica and the crew are just checking everyone in and then you go and have the bestday on the mountain.
And I don't think people understand what it takes to set that mountain up.
So you can just have a day on it.
Right.
And just shoot those courses.
So Sean's Sean's one of the good guys.

(17:36):
Love that dude.
he is, and people don't realize that too.
And I try to tell people all the time because here's when you're talking about the goodperson, Sean DeGray, you know, I, you know, when it was just snowbird and tech was just
snowbird and maybe a couple others, bigger places.

(17:58):
And, you know, we were going all the, we were running, like we would go to snowbird and goto big sky and Terry peak wasn't even a thought of.
Yeah.
And I'd hack on him and hack on him and for him to take the belief.
he, I mean, if I'm driving just all these places that are nine hours away just to shootand have fun.

(18:20):
And he took the, I said, I have a mountain in the black Hills of South Dakota and hebelieved in it and came in.
Now it's now it's one of the, you know, it's one of the places for since.
the inception, you know, since he started doing it and, and he had belief, you know, causelike I said, I hacked on him and said, we, cause everybody thinks, I think they think

(18:43):
South Dakota is like, I've said this before it's a dance with, with wolves and thenthere's nothing out there, but we have the black kills.
have Mount Rushmore, you know, it's not in Colorado.
It's in South Dakota.
I've killed some of the biggest mariums in my life out in South Dakota.
Like some of the best turkey hunting you could ever imagine is out there besides all theother big game that South Dakota's got.

(19:03):
There's no, don't sleep on South Dakota is what I'm telling everybody right now.
Here's another fun story, Rick, that kind of ties in, know, Mountain Ops tack and just theintricacy of that relationship.
So after we launched in 2014 with that photo I showed you, very first time with the tack.

(19:25):
I remember walking up to Sean that day, right at the last day of the event, I walked up tohim and I said, hey, we're brand new.
And because he kind of came up and this is Sean, know, he goes, I don't, I don't rememberallowing you guys to have a booth here.
And because we went through Hunter's Nation.

(19:46):
And so I remember him coming up in his Sean Wayne and he goes, yeah, I don't remembergiving you a booth.
And I said, well, I apologize.
Yeah, we went through Hunter's Nation, Rich.
He let us come and he handed all this out.
I said, do you have any other events you're doing?
We'd love to come do it.
He's like, well, we're looking at doing Big Sky and we've got a couple others that I said,I will pay you and we would like to show up for those and be a partner in this.

(20:13):
And at the time, Prime was the title sponsor.
And I looked at Sean and I said, and also I'd like to talk about title sponsorship.
And he said,
I mean, I, I, Prime's pretty much got locked up and I said, well, I don't want to bedisrespectful in any manner.
If you've got a long-term contract with them, I'd just like to pitch you an idea.

(20:33):
and I, and shared with Sean right there, my vision for Mountain Ops and what I wanted,what I was hoping it was going to become, is, Casey and I had talked, we wanted it to
become the red bull of the industry.
Truly.
I mean, we wanted to create an energy company like Red Bull that had events andexperiences and
and was drawing people towards these meaningful moments in their life that we couldpromote through partnerships and event strategies and, gathering people.

(20:59):
And so I was like, this is a perfect place to do it.
So I said, I would love this to be fueled by mountain ops.
And I'd like to talk to you about that.
And he said, that's interesting.
you know, at the end of this year, maybe, maybe we can talk.
So Sean and I get together at the end of the year.
I sit down with me comes to our office in North Salt Lake.
And we, cause this is what was fun is my marketing firm had built Sean's website.

(21:26):
So as, as, as a marketing firm, we built his first torture challenge website.
Then all of a I show up as mountain ops and he's like, who are you?
Are you Zulu six, the marketing firm, or are you mountain ops?
And I was like, okay, we're, still are a marketing firm, but we've started a brand calledmountain ops.
I'm not telling anybody that I own it.
In fact, Casey and I didn't even let anybody in the community know.

(21:48):
that we were the owners of it for like eight months.
We kind of kept it under wraps.
And we did that because we didn't know what we were going to do with our marketingcompany.
And we didn't want to have any of our clients upset that we're over here running thisother brand, you know, and competing against our time.
So fast forward, I talked to Sean and I say, this is what I'd love to do, man.
I pitched him a hard game.

(22:08):
said, I would love to be the fueled by Mountain Ops.
I'm going to put everything behind this.
I'm going to bring influencers ambassadors here.
We're going to document it, film it.
And I want to be a partner with you on this in terms of blowing this event up together andmaking this a big thing.
And Sean's like, well, I need dollars.
And I was like, dude, I don't have any dollars.
And so he was like, all right, we agreed to a term to where if I could deliver everythingI promised him, he says I will, it'll be the prime tolarger challenge fueled by mountain

(22:41):
tops.
And this is truth guys.
This is the history of it.
I didn't pay Sean a dollar for that sponsorship, but I paid dearly by doing everything inmy power as a brand as we began growing and began accumulating great partnerships and
relationships.
Every partnership relationship I had, I brought to Toll Archie Challenge.
Every influencer that I could, I made sure that they were on the mountain documenting,vlogging, filming, and showing this incredible experience.

(23:07):
And it worked.
It was brilliant.
I'm so, I guess I'm so grateful to Sean.
He was willing to give me that kind of
opportunity that I wouldn't otherwise have if it wasn't Sean DeGray.
And he didn't believe in what Casey and I were building, what we were going to do.
then with what Mountain Ops and TAC accomplished together for that, was basically a sixyear run, you know, before then Yeti came in and took the sponsorship.

(23:32):
And I remember when I got the call and he said, Hey Jordan, you know, you haven't, haven'tpaid me any money for the sponsorship for six years.
And I got Yeti knocking on the door, willing to pay me.
said, dude, take our name off.
put their name on, Black Rifle Coffee wants any of these guys, like you have builtsomething special.
And it's not because I don't want to pay for it, but what they're willing to pay, I mean,let them have it and we'll keep partnering and participating.

(23:59):
But Sean took a total flyer on us and it was a huge, huge lift and helped them out not tonot have to come out of pocket necessarily for sponsorship dollars.
Because we were so conscious about being fiscally responsible as a business to build thebusiness.
But he,
He gave us a leg up.
I'm very grateful for that.
Well, it's funny you say that.

(24:23):
Here's a funny thing that you're bringing up is the pictures and all that video and stuffbecause before then you went to Snowbird because of the scenery besides the shooting and
we were taking pictures all the time because
We love being there and you can't go to a competitive shoot and take those kinds ofpictures because people are so worried about the shooting and we're going, holy moly, this

(24:53):
is a cool shot.
we're getting, know, those were the fun times of just taking pictures.
then it's funny how everybody finally realized that this is a fun shoot and all thesepictures that were coming out.
Some people say they don't understand how total archery challenge can work because it'snot a competitive shoot and this and that.

(25:18):
And why do you want to go break arrows?
And, but I consider, I consider new, like the, the beginnings of total archer channels,like the first days of Sturgis bike rally, because it was, it's kind of the wild days of
not really wild days, but you'd go down and you'd eat there.

(25:40):
You would.
Everybody hung out.
There was no egos.
Everybody was just together.
that, because I've had people, how do you know these people?
Just hang out with them.
You know?
I mean, that's way it was.
And that's the cool thing about TAC.
But that one thing I want to get to is, Mountain Ops that I really, really, really makes,makes it stand out to me.

(26:07):
Like that people, I argue with people.
that think they know business and I don't know business, but I argue with people that whenwe're at the hunting expo and you shut down on Sundays or you're shut down on Sundays
because of the, because it's a Sunday and people have to have their family time pluswhatever other time they need, the religious time or whatever.

(26:36):
And that to me says something.
that a lot of people don't understand is, just sets you apart.
that makes, I try to, I don't have a business, like I said, but I would actually supportmore businesses like that because of the family aspect, because of the religious aspect,

(27:05):
whatever aspect that they, but.
I have to give you kudos for that, man.
That's, that takes a lot.
That was, you know, that wasn't an easy decision to as a partnership, just in terms oflike, cause as you saw when we first got in the Western hunting expo, our very first booth
in 2015 was a small 10 by 10 booth.

(27:28):
We had this big old truck we had built with the diesel brothers as screen, two littlestands with supplements on it and three tables or four tables with shirts and hats.
And we were just hustling.
And if you remember in 2015, the entire hall had orange bags and hats and shirts becauseCasey and I did that deal where we said, give me your hat and I'll give you this half off.

(27:53):
Put this shirt on now.
You get it for half off.
And so people are just changing their clothes right there in the booth.
And all of a overnight, you've got mountain ops taking over everything.
And that caught Ray's attention, Ray Crow at MDF Western Hunting Expo.
And we started a partnership again, just like we did with Sean.

(28:14):
I sat down with him and I said, here, I got a vision for the Western hunting expo.
I want to be the biggest booth here.
see Doyle Munson or Doyle down there moss.
And, and I think it's great.
It's a beautiful museum of great animals and successful hunts.
I want to be the party.
I want to bring the energy and I want to be a staple here and I want to be the end cap, ifyou will.

(28:35):
And that became our long-term partnership where we.
And Ray will tell you this strategically every year we worked together and I and him andour team helped build that entire hall together where we always were the anchor at the end
that kept pulling the show farther and farther and farther back.
And, know, it's funny because as it started, I was like, Hey, I kind of like this spot.

(28:56):
And he's like, I know you do, but I need you to go back there and I need you to pullpeople back there.
it, it was a beautiful thing.
What we did over those years to really grow the show with their team and to really bring adifferent experience.
And the big thing there was, like you said, you know, the decision to not do that onSunday was a partnership discussion and decision to kind of respect our families and

(29:20):
workers to allow them the opportunity to, if they wanted to go to the show, they could,and they didn't have to work it.
And if they wanted to spend time with family, that's where they should.
And from a religious aspect, if they wanted to go to church on Sunday and have thatopportunity and didn't feel pressure to need to come work, then we wanted to allow that.
And I actually had a really cool experience.
And you want to talk about companies that you support or individuals that do this.
So I think on a scale that's within the hunting industry, know, we, we, I'll be honest, wegot a lot of resistance for doing that.

(29:48):
We got a lot of negativity for that.
We had a lot of people not like us that we did that.
And then we had the complete opposite where a lot of people like yourself appreciate it,adored it.
And it spoke volumes for what we, when we were silent and not doing anything on that day.
But I actually had an opportunity.
have a good, I actually have a good friend, Dan Cathy, who is actually the, the Cathyfamily owns Chick-fil-A.

(30:14):
And I got to know the Cathy family through my time with, when I was spending time at DudePerfect.
And, know, Chick-fil-A, they were on the same thing.
They're on the same model.
Here is a multi-billion dollar empire of chicken, right?
And every Sunday you can't get the Lord's chicken.

(30:34):
It's not available, right?
Because they do that and they've, they've, they've caught over all their years.
They've caught so much flack.
And I remember when I was sitting down in dad's office in Georgia, I, I, had some time tosit down with them one on one and ask them a bunch of questions about, know, the families,
his dad, Truett, who started the company, him now running it.
He was just preparing at the time for his son, Andrew to take over.

(30:56):
and be his successor.
And I was asking him, said, Rick, or sorry, I said, Dan, I just got to know, as you'regonna be leaving the helm of Chick-fil-A and moving on and your son's now gonna take over,
what do you feel like and what do you hope your legacy that you've built after your fatherhas been or will be and will be remembered for?

(31:19):
And he just looked at me and he said, Jordan, know, service.
And he says that to me is the whole reason why we say my pleasure and the whole reason whywhen you go to their office, the Chick-fil-A headquarters, in the actual entry there and

(31:42):
waiting area, they have a statue of Christ where he's washing the feet of one of hisapostles.
And that is what Dan says is the whole
entire culture right there.
That embodies the culture of Chick-fil-A.
And it was really fascinating to spend time with him and be inspired by this opportunityto become friends with a guy like Dan Cathy and to experience what the family's built over

(32:08):
so many decades.
And the fact that they have stayed true to their beliefs and they have not wavered basedon public opinion, peer pressure.
or anything else, they've said, we are who we are and we stand for what we stand for andwe're unwilling to yield it.
And his whole thing was service.
And I thought that was so cool.
And so, yeah, I appreciate you saying that.

(32:30):
I think sometimes the intention behind that was in no way to try and do any virtuesignaling at all.
Obviously it comes across that way because it's such a strong stance that you take ormake.
But it was never our intention to be like, let's do this so everybody thinks we're holierthan now or better than now.

(32:51):
mean, no, it was just a decision that we made.
And listen, it wasn't one that was widely accepted, but we made it.
And sometimes decisions like that in business and in life are tough to make, but you gotto stand by your values and you got to stand by your core and who you are.
And you can't, you can't surrender that.
You just can't because you'll lose yourself.
You lose who you are.

(33:12):
And that, so now I'm going to transition because you just said that because what you justsaid is like, it's becoming the best you.
And that's what Jason, you're, mean, that's what don't die rusty does because I think itjust becomes a better you.
And when you put that out for everybody to see, they can make a choice if they want to bebetter.

(33:32):
And I'm not saying the Sunday choice would make them better.
I'm saying you got to look within yourself to be better.
And.
If you believe in this, then that's what you believe in and it makes you better every day.
We, we, we, we, I just put up a post today that, you know, don't let the ghosts of thepast be the demons of the present because they'll beat you up every chance they get.

(34:00):
But we have today to be the best person we can be.
And tomorrow we can be the best person we can be.
And we can grow every day to be the best we can be.
And.
So I look at that stuff and I look, I just thought it was a very cool thing that you did.
so anyway, that's what I think.

(34:21):
Cause I think I look at you and I look at your posts that you put on and I look at youbeing, you're living your best life and being the best you.
then, so now I'm gonna go to a different part of being an entrepreneur.
but chasing your dreams.

(34:43):
And when I talked to Brittany, your assistant, other day, we were emailing and then I gota black flag sample.
I have to tell you, I was going to take it when I was going to work.
I thought, you know what, how can you test it by going to work?
Because I wanted to give it a true honest, and people...

(35:10):
I like Jordan, but if I thought it was not a good product, I would tell you.
I was going to say this guy, just so you know, this is not a paid endorsement at all.
This is, this is as real as it gets when it's coming from Rick.
He's going to shoot you straight.
If there's any, if there's anything that's, that's, unbecoming of a product.
I mean, you've always been very vocal to and opinionated on archery gear and things thatyou use or things that you wouldn't use.

(35:35):
And so, I, you had just, what I think you're about to share is what you had just sharedwith me before we started the podcast.
Yeah.
Share with everybody your experience that you had with Black Flag Revenge.
Well, so I decided, you know what, I'm going to climb Crow Peak.
Everybody seems to know I climbed Crow Peak.
It's seven mile round trip, but I take Magic Mine 2 and I took the Black Flag Revenge as Ileft the house and I left at about five, a little before five, because I don't know what

(36:06):
it is with me, but I like to see the sun rises.
To climb a mountain in the middle of the day just doesn't do anything for me in someaspects because
I like the colors.
I got to the parking lot and I'm, so it's about 10, 15 minutes, I get to the parking lotand I just feel so focused.
And I'm starting to get that energy in me.

(36:28):
And I climbed the whole mountain and you're breathing in the cold air and you're gettingin and I just felt I was so focused.
was like, I was.
taking more in than I've ever taken, like visually and mentally.
And as I climbed and I was also on a time limit in the aspect that I wanted to see thesunrise and clouds were coming in, I had to be a little speedy, but I still was able to

(37:04):
enjoy the views.
And when I got up to the top,
I don't know what it was and I'm crediting you with the view that I had in the aspect thatis just like, it's like I was at a movie theater and everything opened up and it was just
like, whoa, this is cool.
know, and, and you, it was like a focus and energy and just, I'm going to say it was likea place of peace.

(37:37):
Do you, you know, I mean, I've had
I've had these when you're sad and you need something open, it was just like, found thispiece in myself and I, I, I bet I was up there now or then enjoying the views.
I, the clouds came in and I did some other things, but I got some, I got some coolpictures of the sunrise, but I have to say that that product revenge I took, I should say

(38:04):
black flag revenge is what I took in.
I'll be ordering in some more because it is, I'll tell you that right now.
it, it impressed me.
And I honestly think now that I took it in a, in that, in that way to really test it forme personally, that's how I would test it where I have no outside influences coming in.

(38:32):
But you're going to see me taking it before I go to work too.
Absolutely.
make me a better person at work.
And I think it would make me a better, I'd have energy and peace.
So you aren't panicked.
Totally.
And you know, what's interesting.
So I'll kind of dive a little bit into the history, even the name, right?

(38:53):
The name revenge and how we came up with that and the formula itself it's the best formulaon the market.
And every company says that about their own product, but I mean it with every part of mewhen I say this, because when Casey and I commissioned Jose
who was actually the lead formula developer and one of the guys that started Bucked Up.

(39:19):
He had since left the company and he joined us over here.
And so this is a couple of years ago that we started creating and formulating and startingto build Revenge.
we tasked him with, he asked us, said, okay, as far as a formula and what you want tobuild, what do want me to do?
What's the goal here?

(39:39):
Seven years ago, Casey and I developed Mountain Ops Ignite, which a lot of people arefamiliar with.
It's our number one bestselling product there.
And at the time that we were inspired, Casey and I were inspired to do that product.
Here's actually a fun, cool history about Mountain Ops Ignite that most people probablyknow, unless you hear it from me or Casey is, Ignite was actually originally going to be

(40:01):
Eva Shocky's pre-workout.
So at the time Eva Shocky, she,
She was one of our main promoters and I was building out some products for her signatureline.
And I called her and I asked her like, what, is it that you want, you know, in your line?
And she says, you know what?
I don't take that yeti.
That's too much for me.
You know, I'm a woman and I don't, I got a small body.

(40:22):
I don't want that's too much in my body.
and I don't want, I'm not looking to like build muscles with creatine.
So she's like, how can I build something tamer and something that can help motivate me,but like not do that.
And so I went to work developing what.
would then become Ignite.
And I still remember when we got the first samples back, had, there was Onnit at the time,Joe Rogan was a big promoter of Onnit.

(40:48):
They had launched AlphaBrain and Neutropix, right?
Neutropic blends were now the Crave and Rave.
And so I was like, I told our R &D, hey, we want this to have energy and we want this tohave focus.
And let's build it off the back of like our cardiovascular so that you get this likeultimate energy and focus drink.

(41:08):
And so when we got the samples back on that, it was very interesting.
Cause I remember having everybody in the office take it and everybody was like, wow, like,I feel so good on this.
This is incredible.
What's this for?
And I was like, this is supposed to be Eva's pre-workout, you know, product, but I thinkwe've got something special.

(41:28):
I don't think I can give this to Eva.
think this is going to be a hero product for us.
So Casey and I made the decision not to give it to Eva and to call it ignite and make itour, you know, energy and focus drink.
And so that was seven years ago that we developed that.
And so the science and the ingredients then were as bet as good as they could be for whatwe built then.

(41:50):
So fast forward to now.
And as we're thinking about building revenge, what we told Jose was there is not a worry,do not have a worry for the amount of cost.
I don't care how many ingredients or how much they cost.
If they are case studied, proven, if they are innovative, if they do what they say theywill do, I want it in here.
And he brought us back the revenge formula.

(42:12):
And he's like, guys, this is the most expensive formula I've ever developed in my career.
It's also the most robust formula I've ever developed.
And, and, and most of these ingredients that we have in here that are case studied andproven by science to do what they say.
Most companies will put one of these in there.
And then build a whole bunch of others around it.
He's like, we've got four of them in here.

(42:33):
You guys sure you want to do this?
And we said, we have experience, you know, with what we did at Mountain Ops, we want to doit bigger and better than we did then.
we want, cost is not an issue.
So we truly have developed what is truly uniquely different than what we did seven yearsago.
And the difference is exactly what I love about Rick, about what you just explained.
It literally just validated what I'm about to say to everybody on this podcast, which is.

(42:57):
Back then we developed energy and focus.
Great.
A person can be energized, but not do anything.
And a person can be focused on something, but not really going anywhere.
So even the pairing of energy and focus is not enough.
And that's what Casey and I realized is like, this is not enough for what an individualneeds it like, because I'll tell you this Rick, and I don't know if you have this or not,

(43:18):
but I have ADD.
Okay.
So I, I've been in a world where I was on a medication called Adderall so I could getthrough school.
My mom made sure I got on Adderall.
She's like, you need to focus kid.
Like your grades suck.
And Casey has ADD as well.
And so we, as part of the building this formula, that was a big piece of it.
As I said, listen, I want to, I want to look at the most unique energy sources possiblethat we can use that are different than what has ever been done or, or, or is available.

(43:48):
And I obviously want to have the nootropics and every main type of nootropical productthat we could put in here to be part of that focal.
But I said, the third piece to this, the triangle, the trifecta that really brings thisall together.
I want clarity and I want motivation.
If there are ingredients that can stimulate dopamine and release in the body an urgency tomove and not to just stand where you are.

(44:18):
and to have clarity of what that purpose is that they want so that when you pair it withstimulant and you're energized and you now have this focal factor that's going on, you've
got mental clarity, now you have a motivation factor and you have clear line of sight ofwhat you want to do.
And I can tell you that what you just shared is what every consumer is experiencing rightnow that is so different than what they've ever experienced before because the vivid and

(44:42):
clarity that you experience, especially when you're in a place of solitude like
the peak of a mountain top and you're overlooking God's wonderful creations and you'reembracing all that you're feeling in that moment.
It's hard to do that if your mind is racing to other places because you can be in one ofthe most beautiful places on earth and not see it.

(45:03):
That's what's wild about the mind.
You could be thinking about something else in your life.
You could be depressed.
You could have anxiety.
You know, you could be lost somewhere else at sea.
but what you experience is what this product was built to do.
It supports memory, right?
Like we have great memories, it supports memory.
It promotes a mental process.

(45:23):
It supports mood.
It helps you have a better mood.
It helps release a lot of those ingredients and they help release dopamine in the body soyou feel more dope and you're more happy.
And so I love that you said that.
And so here's a cool story about how we got the name.
And so as we had developed the formula and we had tested it,
We're like, Jose, you did it.

(45:44):
This is exactly what we wanted.
This is exactly what we want it to do.
This is going to be absolutely revolutionary.
Like the consumer will experience it one time and will noticeably feel the significantdifference from that one time.
And so what do we call it?
What do we name it?
You know, we're pirates, we're black flag.
and I still remember this day that Casey comes in the office and all of us captains andpartners are together in the office and we're actually eye dating on the whiteboard and

(46:09):
we're drawing all these different names of what we should call the product.
And Casey walks in and in Casey fashion, says, I don't care what anybody suggested today.
I have a vision and an idea and I know what we're going to call it.
And I'm not asking for a vote.
This is what it's going to be.
And we're all just like, okay, what's it, what's it going to be Casey?

(46:32):
And Casey says to all of us, okay, obviously as pirates, which we all are and what, andthe kind of brand that we're building, what's one of the most famous pirate ships known to
man?
in the golden era of piracy.
And we all sat there for a minute and I said, well, Blackbird had a really cool shipcalled Queen Anne's Revenge.
Like that was his ship's name and that was notoriously associated with him.

(46:55):
And Casey said, exactly.
We're going to call it revenge.
But this is the difference.
We're going to redefine the word revenge in society.
So we're going to take this product we've now built and paired with helping an individualbe energized,
focused and motivated with pure clarity to accomplish whatever it is they want to do.

(47:18):
And we're going to help them get revenge on all the distractions in their life that takethem away from becoming the best version of themselves by taking them away from the best
journey they could ever venture by taking them away from the things that will take themaway from things that are most meaningful to them.
And so he's like, we are going to get revenge on

(47:38):
a fuzzy mind on anxiety, on depression, on mental illness, on lack of motivation, on lackof purpose.
He's like, we will get revenge.
And dude, we're all sitting there and I'm like, I'm in, like I'm ready to run through awall.
Like let's get revenge on all of it.
And so that's what, that's what's interesting is, is black flag revenge.
This, you know, which they, which we say revenge is best served cold, right?

(48:01):
Get a nice cold bottle of revenge and serve it up.
It goes back to what you said earlier, Rick, about how do we become the best versions ofourselves?
How do we pursue a better and seek to be better?
Right.
And so this whole pirate mindset mentality that we've developed and we're developing nowat Black Flag is all based on what we call enriching the crew.

(48:27):
Any good crew, any good ship had a great crew and was able to navigate the seas at large.
And who are the crew to us?
It's you, it's me, it's our partners, it's our employees, it's our friendships andrelationships.
It's everyone that can touch this company is part of the crew and we want to enrich theirlife and help them to get their revenge on the things in their life that are taking them

(48:52):
away from becoming the best version of themselves.
That is the mindset mentality now.
And that is what we hope by raising a black flag in an individual's life.
That is why we called it black flag.
Casey came up with the name black flag because one, him and I have always been obsessedwith pirate lore.
And so when we wanted to do our new venture, we both talked about it.

(49:13):
We're like, let's do a pirate brand.
Let's do a pirate company.
And so he's like, let's call it black flag.
And like we did at mountain ops, when I came up with the name mountain ops, I acronym toMTN OPS.
And just as a fun fact, I came up with that name because I was inspired by Mountain Dew,which is my favorite drink.
So everybody's like, how did you come up with the name Mountain Ops?

(49:33):
Well, Mountain Dew played a role in that.
MTN DEW, MTN OPS, but we're BLKFLG.
And again, in maritime back in the, back in pirate days, it was intentional as a signal ofcolor.
When you raised a black flag, it was a signal to all within sight of the intentions thatyou had as a ship to either not engage or to engage.

(50:00):
with that vessel and raising the black signaled an intention to engage and to beintentional about what you want to do.
And pirates back then would fire one across the bow with a screaming ball, cannonballscreeching through the air across their bow to give them fair warning and say, we intend
to come and take what we want.
We're either going to take what's in the hole.

(50:21):
We might even take some of your crew.
They want to come join ours and we might even take this ship.
You know, and, and it was interesting back then because pirates were fighting against theempires that were taking over the world, the French, the Spanish and the English.
And what was cool about the pirates back then in Nassau is that they were on all frontsfighting and disrupting three different empires, their trade routes.

(50:48):
And this is what I love about pirates.
And this is a fun little fact that
A lot of people don't know if you haven't studied pirates as much as I have in theirentire history is pirates were the, they call it the Republic of pirates is what the
capital of Nassau in the Caribbean became as the main capital of the pirates.
And their belief system at that time was a free man state.

(51:13):
so every man was for himself, but a community built on you make your way and you earnyour, your wages.
And so join the crew, go out, sell the seas.
Obviously they didn't have any funding.
And so they had to go out and they had to commandeer vessels and they had to take loot inorder to fund their society.

(51:34):
And they took that loot.
This is what's so funny about everybody, how they look at pirates because pirates weredepicted a certain way because the victors wrote their stories and that was the British
who disbanded them.
So everybody thinks of these terrible guys.
pirates were the first civilization to abolish slavery, right?

(51:55):
Like what was crazy was is when you look at the French, when the French were coming intoLouisiana through the French quarters and they were bringing their spices and their silks
and all their trade into the Americas, they would go then and that, the pirates wouldintercept their vessels and take those goods in and out of there when they're bringing
goods and taking goods.

(52:15):
The Spanish were coming into Florida, right?
They spent a lot of time on the coast of Florida.
taking gold through their armadas back to the Spanish empire.
And obviously the pirates tried many times to disrupt those armadas and get that gold.
And the British were coming in more North, right?
New York area and Boston.
And we're kind of taking over the country where the Spanish kind of had their section andthe French.

(52:41):
And what was interesting was is what the British started doing is they were bringing theirslave trade routes that were going to the UK.
They started diverting them to the Americas.
So they said, Hey, we're to send a certain portion of our slaves up here.
And we're going to send another portion down here because we're now establishing this newkingdom in the Americas, this new world.

(53:03):
And that's when the pirates started intercepting their slave ships.
And what the pirates would do is they would go intercept these ships.
They would take them over.
They would take the entire slaves that were going to be sold.
They'd bring them back into Nassau and they'd say, Hey, join the crew.
Come and see with us and earn a wage or contribute to society here, but have meaning.

(53:26):
You're not a slave here, right?
And yet that ideology just absolutely pissed off the British.
And so they didn't care too much that the pirates were actually getting in the French andthe Spanish way, but as soon as they got in there, that's when the wars and the battle
started with the pirates.
And so fast forward to when the pirates are disbanded by the British ransacked, theyransacked Nassau.

(53:50):
They've disbanded all the great captains and all their naval fleet has been, you know,either dispersed, sunk, you know, done with.
All of those pirates go right back where many of them came from, from the Carolinas, NorthAmerica and go back into society.
And we go from pirates to patriots and the same pirates that were trying to disrupt theBritish.

(54:14):
are the same patriots and the same pirates who started the Patriot Rebellion thateventually got their revenge on the British and took back America.
like pirates have a huge and it played a huge role in our country's history andfoundation.
And so when we started the company, we wanted to bring that back to America.

(54:36):
We wanted to bring back pirate, but in a modern way.
so
We wanted people as they come to Black Flag experience us, see us, and like you have withRevenge and our product and many other things that we're doing here at this company, we
want them to fly a Black Flag in their life.
We want them to be intentional about what they intend to do.
And then we want them to seek the greatest life's adventures you can seek.

(55:00):
And so what we're trying to acquire, who we're trying to get to come be at Black Flag areoutdoor enthusiasts who are adventure seekers.
Because...
I think we all at some time in our life, every one of us, at least I did, dressed up as apirate in Halloween.
there's been at some point in life, like pirates, we got to know them or we wanted to belike them.

(55:20):
We always say it's a pirate's life.
I wish I could have lived one.
We believe you can live that life today.
In a modern way, you can live a pirate's life, but in a way that we are going to inspireand build in changing the narrative that the British wrote about pirates then.
and the truth about pirates and what they really did to society to change humanity, bringthat back because I'm a brand guy.

(55:44):
And I don't know if there's any better, more iconic brand than the Jolly Roger.
I mean, pirates quote, aren't by nature a society today, but that brand and Mark has livedon for generations.
It's one of the best icons in human history.
And so I want to show this.
Let me see if I've got it.

(56:06):
For anybody that's watching, okay, I'll use this stick.
I want to explain this, Rick, and then turn it back over to you.
I know I've been, I've been talking for a minute, but, so when I came up with the brand,this time I was like, okay, I want, I want to pay homage to pirate lore, the Jolly Roger,

(56:27):
you know, the golden era piracy in the 17th century.
So obviously everybody knows the crossbones.
and the cross swords, right?
As some of most iconic flags.
And so for this one, I came up with the idea to do cross bolts.
And the reason for that was this, the way that Casey and I have lived our lives, built ourlives, built our businesses and built our communities has been disruptive, which lightning

(56:55):
is very disruptive.
We always, the loudest guys, we like to be loud, which thunder is very loud.
we love to bring energy and we love to bring light and X marks the spot.
Right?
So all of this logo and this, and this symbol right here at the bottom is all intentionalabout the embodiment of what I just shared.

(57:16):
Our beliefs are, and showing that in an iconic way, the skull itself has meaning too,because when I was developing the skull, this is crazy.
People think I'm insane, but we went through probably 30 different iterations of eyes,sockets.
We wanted the eyes not to look too aggressive and by nature so that it looked mean or tolook too droopy or to look, we wanted them to feel more calm and focused so that a person

(57:43):
who has foresight or vision for their life is focused on their future.
And then we removed, as you can see here, the jaw.
And that's intentional because Casey and I, and everyone who's worked with us has alwaysbeen men of action.
Words are just words.
But we believe by removing the jaw, it was intentional about saying, it's not just ourwords of what we'll ever say we'll do.

(58:08):
It's our actions.
Our actions will always speak louder than our words.
And so again, this icon, hope as people see it begins to resonate with them in a way wherethey embrace the pirate within and they can find a haven and a harbor, if you will.
At black flag where we want to welcome individuals that want to transform and change theirlife that want to make a difference, not only for their immediate, community, but the

(58:35):
world at large.
mean, look at one of the greatest pirates of all, Steve jobs.
I love that man.
And he's, he's an icon.
He's a, he's a, he's somebody who truly transformed and changed history.
And if you read his biography, Steve started a whole division in his company that
had a pirate flag and a division that innovated the Apple Macintosh.

(58:59):
Like the Apple Macintosh computer came from a group of engineers and developers that hespecifically pulled out of the company away from Cupertino and placed them in a building
adjacent away from everyone.
And they were the pirates, as he said, because he said, whoever wants to join the Navywhen you can be a pirate was his famous quote.

(59:21):
And if you look at pirates in our modern day, it's guys like Steve jobs, it's guys likeElon Musk, it's guys like, what's the Amazon guy?
Like these, these guys have done great things to disrupt industries and create categoriesand bring convenience and meaning to life in ways that, you know, pirates did back then.

(59:42):
So it's, it's, it's all encompassing.
It's all intentional.
Like what we're doing, like we did at mountain house, but like we're now doing a blackflag.
There is.
absolute meaning behind what we're doing.
And we're so excited for so far how the community that we're starting to build and thepeople that are starting to try our products and engage with us are having similar

(01:00:03):
experiences like you, Rick, and experiencing the difference that can hopefully helpmotivate them to raise the right color, right?
To raise the black, to go out there and to just take life and take from life what you willcommandeer from life what you can because it life
It's not life's responsibility to give you anything.
That's crazy thing.

(01:00:24):
It is your responsibility to decide for yourself what you will take from life.
Just like a pirate will take what they will or what they want when they signal what theirintention is.
You have to wake up every day and raise that flag and do that every day in your life.
That's what it's all about.
Yes, and I love the energy, but you forgot the fourth thing.

(01:00:47):
It tastes good.
It's incredible.
Yeah, I mean listen listen There you go.
We go for it.
We go for the triangle to the square that fourth corner That cornerstone is if people ifit doesn't taste good Nobody's gonna drink it.
We pride ourselves on good flavor.
We got three flavors right now Savage sunrise, which is our Watermelon strawberry, we thenhave our pink plunder which is pink lemonade

(01:01:17):
And we also have our Deep Blue, which is a blue raspberry.
And this is a fun fact.
We're launching our new flavor in January, which is Tiger's Blood, and we're calling itRed Tide.
And we're launching it on Trump's Inaugurational Day because of the Red Tide that justcame across America this last November.

(01:01:43):
But I truly love the energy that you bring to this, you know, and the positive attitudeand you know, the one thing that I wish I, I mean, I've tried to live life the best I can
forever, but I never worried about my body as much as I in my head.

(01:02:05):
as much as I do now.
I, you know what I mean?
It's one of those things that you, you know, I, I worried about my kind of what I ate alittle bit, but I wasn't, I wasn't so worried.
But now that you study and you think about things and with, with my mind focused and withmy, it was energy and every, you know, you keep on getting older and you keep on, I want

(01:02:33):
to
do things till I certainly can't do things.
that's like, I have had, I just have been pushing this.
We did a episode called, if you had 24 hours to live, would you be panicked or would yoube at peace?

(01:02:54):
And it wasn't the question of dying.
It was a question about living.
Cause am I being the best person to me?
And am I being the best person to the world?
And it was to get that out there.
And I'm trying to be the best person to me because I, right now, mean, and to my wife, ofcourse, but what I'm saying is I'm trying to show people that go on that adventure, live

(01:03:20):
and smile and try to, excuse me, to be the best you every day.
We make up excuses for why we can't be this.
I'm in a bad mood today.
Well, you know what?
You can change your mood at times.
You know, I understand that things happen and you might not be at the top of your game,but taking a revenge can help, maybe help that out.

(01:03:46):
Maybe you're just a little bit tired or maybe you're not focused and maybe that's puttingyou in a bad mood.
But when I'm going with this is like, I want to go on as many adventures as I can until Ican't.
And I laughed when you said the skull and crossbones because maybe that's how, I mean,that's probably how you got to know me because I'm just loud at times.

(01:04:09):
you and me are the same dude.
We operate not at volume 10, we're at volume 11.
You and I, Rick and I, if you get us together, we're one louder than everybody else.
So I kind of had to laugh about that, but you know, if you put out there, like our, Ithink our personalities, when we put that out there and people gravitate to people who are

(01:04:34):
positive and who look at life through a different lens, I'm not saying not reality, butI'm talking about not everything's negative.
So many people look at things negatively without even looking through it.
They don't ask questions and they don't within themselves or with anybody else.

(01:04:57):
It's like, I just heard this.
No, you know what?
I'm going to go look something up if I don't believe it.
But that's why I love listening to, mean, I love my podcast, of course, but I like tolisten to others and they give me things to think about or look up and why can't we
like nutritionally or physically or chase those dreams or inspirationally, we need to lookat these things and through a different perspective and chase these dreams that we have.

(01:05:29):
And I just get so worked up about it, you know what I mean?
Because I see so many people that just are kind of just on that level, just
flat, there's no mountains in their way, you know what mean?
You got to climb that mountain or you're never going to get to the other side is where Iwant to go.

(01:05:49):
then my problem is, and I think this is your problem.
You climb one mountain, but you want to climb that other mountain across the valley.
And then, I saw this view.
I want to climb that other mountain.
never satisfied.
that's my wife always tells me she's like, George, I feel like every time you have, youyou envision something or you want to manifest something and it manifests itself and you

(01:06:13):
actually accomplish it.
I'm thinking to myself, he's arrived.
He's going to be satisfied.
He's going to be content.
She's like, and then the next day you wake up and you tell me this whole new dream andthis whole new vision of what you're now going to build.
Now that you've accomplished this, said, honey, I in it's my nature to do that.
I don't know any other way than when I've accomplished or I've arrived at one summit andI, and I've reached the peak.

(01:06:36):
I'm looking to the next, right?
There's always another, there's always another peak to seek.
There's always something else that I can do.
I don't know that my body will accept the idea of, of this retirement.
I don't know that my body will accept the idea that I will relax or will not be doing ordoing something.

(01:06:58):
I I think in life, some of the things that are most difficult for people and where theylose some of their way is they stop learning and they stop.
mean, knowledge is everything in this life.
Like we literally have a brain for that whole purpose to retain information and thenutilize that information to do things and...

(01:07:18):
If we're not learning and we're not seeking, then then we're not journeying.
We're not, like you said, very, at very beginning of that statement, we're not living, youknow, we're dying because that's the fact that the reality is this.
What is behind you is death.
He's over your back, he's got his hand on it.
He's like, hey, I'm gonna get you one day.

(01:07:38):
Okay, and he's behind you.
death's not in front of you, he's behind you.
And the only way that you put him in front is when you stop moving.
But if you're walking, if you're moving in a forward direction, if you're going somewhere,death is behind you.
We are all decaying, we are all dying.
But what's in front of you is a life that you can live.

(01:07:58):
Are you living your life or are you dying?
Because the thing is, is it's all perspective to what you just said so well.
It's all the aperture.
It's all the optics.
It's all how you perceive it and see it.
And I think what's what people need in life most of all is meaning.
and, and one of the things that I think that, that it's hard sometimes as individuals,cause we're always in our own head and we have our own voice.

(01:08:25):
And sometimes that voice.
I'm going be honest as an asshole.
and, and is, and is honestly a voice that, can talk you out of everything and can, cansway you from doing things.
so, every day is a, is a challenge, but here's the reality.
Like any journey, there's milestones along the way.
And I think one of the things I love that you've said often in this podcast is chasingyour dreams.

(01:08:50):
And what I've always kind of said to people is tackle your dreams, you know, with, with,with dreams.
They're fun when you're asleep.
And honestly, when you're asleep and you got your eyes closed and you wake up and like,man, that was a cool dream.
Or you got your eyes open and you're daydreaming.
It's cool.
You can be sitting or laying down and you can have all these cool dreams, but don't justchase them because you may never catch them.

(01:09:14):
Tackle them.
Because when you grip them and rip them to the ground,
And you own that dream, it becomes reality.
It's no longer a dream.
It's realized it's yours.
It's now your life.
It's not what you're doing.
And so I love when you say that because that's what I think is what people need to makesure they have ahead of them.
Have meaning, have purpose, have intention.

(01:09:37):
Define who you are.
Don't allow others to define you or decide how you want to live your life.
Like the influence of peer is a beautiful thing, but honestly, it's also a very terriblething.
There are, there are, there are people around me in my life right now, in this moment thatare very close to me.
talking like friends.
We're talking family.
They're toxic and they want to talk me out of things or they want to tell me who I ambecause of who I've been in the past.

(01:10:04):
Not because of who they see me today.
They see me through the, through the version that I once was.
They can't accept the new person that I'm becoming.
And there are all types of people in your life that look at you that way.
And part of that is because some people aren't cheering for you.
They aren't really rooting for you and they don't want what's best for you.
And that's family members, that's friends, that's associates.

(01:10:27):
And it's hard to discern who those people are.
But when you begin to identify them, it's so important in your life that you begin toremove them or to isolate them and to protect yourself from them because they will
intoxicate you to a point where they won't, you won't believe that you can have anythingmore or you won't have a dream or the dream that you share with people.
always say, be careful who you share your dreams with because some of the most closestpeople in your life.

(01:10:51):
We'll tell you, can't do it.
They'll tell you that that's not obtainable.
And it's self projecting their own insecurities and inabilities on you because they'relike, crap, if, he does it, that means I'm not doing it.
So that means I'm not as good as I could be.
And it's a self reflection of themself outwardly expressing themselves in hopes that youwon't.

(01:11:12):
so they can be who they are, which is not who they need to be.
It's a wild, it's a crazy world to live in, Rick.
It really is.
But I love, I love the intention behind your podcast.
I love why you're doing this.
I love that, that everything that you always say, and this since I've known you, you'rethat guy, everybody who knows, Rick knows this.
And that's why it's like, you don't have any dust on you.

(01:11:34):
don't, there's no rust.
You're just this, this beautiful chrome that's been, that's, that shines bright foreveryone to see.
And what's cool about Chrome, right?
This is what's cool about Rust and Chrome.
Chrome is a surface that when polished right, one can see a reflection, right?
One can also, it reflects what it sees or what you see.

(01:11:58):
It also is something that bounces light.
And so when we think about ourselves in that light, we want to be as bright as we can beso that not only can, when people, when they're around us,
Can we reflect and project on them a better version of them when you're with them?
But we can also emit and share light with others.

(01:12:18):
When rust comes, rust comes because of maintenance.
It's because of lack of maintenance in our lives.
Rust erodes the chrome, erodes the metal to a point where those things that were sobrilliant and vibrant.
are now lost.
Like you want, see a truck that's sitting out in a field and it's rusted.
But here's what's so cool about a truck that's rusted in the field, sitting in decayingand rotting.

(01:12:43):
When somebody can find that truck and see potential in it, they'll take it from thatfield.
They'll put it in their garage and they'll restore it and they'll rub the rust off andthey'll bring about the chrome and they'll paint it and they'll restore it.
They'll resurrect it.

(01:13:03):
And I'm going to share something right now with everyone.
There is no greater person, no better co-pilot, no better person in your life that youcould have that could not only restore you, then your savior.
I think it's important in our lives that we not only surround ourselves with the rightpeople.

(01:13:27):
in our immediate circles in this life in terms of like you and me, like dude, I wouldalways be in your circle.
I'll always hang out with you.
Cause every time I'm with you, I leave better than when I came into the experience withyou.
are such a brilliant person that's so good at what I just said.
You are chrome.
You are brilliant.
You you maintenance your energy, yourself.

(01:13:47):
to when you're with people, you're your best self and you bring the best energy and youmake sure when they leave, they leave happier when then they came in to your proximity,
right?
And I think the Savior is an important person that we need to be mindful of trying to havein our life too, because I shared this on another podcast, but obviously as a pirate,

(01:14:10):
like,
Hmph.
is all about commanding the seas, right?
And here's the truth and reality in that very thing.
You will never be able to control the sea.
The sea has a mind of its own.
It goes by the nature of gravity and weather and wind.
I mean, it's either calm or it's tumulus or tumultuous.

(01:14:34):
It can be a very scary thing to be at sea when it's a storm.
And the only person in life who's ever commanded the waters is Jesus.
He literally walked on it.
So if we want to strive to do and be and become our best version of our best self, thebest way to do that is to find people who want to be like that.

(01:14:59):
And want to share that with others.
And that's why I love, I love your podcast name.
Don't die rusty.
don't die in a field.
Don't be like an old truck that gets left behind and unmaintenanced and rusts out anddeteriorates.
Be a truck, get your oil changed, maintenance your truck, wash it, clean it, like takecare of it, take care of your vehicle so that that rust doesn't erode.

(01:15:24):
your potential, right?
And that's all intentional about why you're doing this and why this podcast exists and whoyou are, right?
Well, thank you.
And I just, yeah, I hope I just keep on shining the light and as you do, but I, I was, Iget in, I get so, I just love having these conversations, but I know you have things to

(01:15:46):
do.
So I'm going to ask you, and maybe we can do this again sometime.
That would be great.
So, you know, but I'm going to ask you our final question since we're here and I,
kind of told you what it would be, but what's a good life to Jordan Harbison?
That's a question.

(01:16:10):
I've actually told this, I say this a lot to people when they, it's great, I love thisquestion.
And when I share this with people, I try to break it down for them.
The best life I feel like that you can live is a meaningful life.
And now let me explain what that means.

(01:16:32):
Meaningful is that an individual not only has meaning and purpose but that their entirelife because they know who they are and what they're about and what they want to do and
because they're meaningful their life will be full of meaning.

(01:16:54):
And so I think when you want to live your best life, the best life you can live, it is alife that is meaningful.
Because to live, one can simply live, but not really exist and cannot even have purpose ornot even have meaning.
You're just an organism, an embodiment of a species that will deteriorate and die and goback in the soil where it came from.

(01:17:20):
But to have meaning and to be meaningful and full of meaning, think is one of the bestlives you can live,
Well, that it was very well said that I truly believe that because I think we can, Ihonestly believe that I just don't want to live.
I want to end that meaning in my life is to live the best life I can live.

(01:17:46):
with everybody that's around me, if you can influence them or if they can influence youand you keep on learning and having more meaning into your life.
If you understand what I'm saying, maybe you don't.
mean, we just keep on, we keep on having those.
Anyway, I'll probably edit this out because I'm rambling at the moment, but you know whatI mean.

(01:18:11):
this in kind of closing, like the word meaningful, right?
To be full of meaning or have meaning.
That's not just a reflection of yourself, right?
It's also a reflection of your relationships because life is all about meaning.
Brian Call, pretty, told me this once and it really stuck with me.

(01:18:32):
As he says, know, I don't, Brian said to me one day when we were talking, having a deepdiscussion, he said to me, you know,
I don't care about just having relationships for the sake of relationships.
I truly care about having...
meaningful relationships.
And when you think about any relationship that you have in your life or could have, theones that will stand the test of time, that will endure and will be the most enjoyable are

(01:18:59):
the most meaningful ones.
Because again, the relationship itself is full of meaning because of the exchange and thetransactions that happen between those two individuals or a group of individuals.
So seeking to live a meaningful life and while living it, have meaningful relationshipsalong the way is an important part of it.
in your your life's journey.

(01:19:20):
Well said.
So I'm going to end it right here then and we'll hopefully have another conversation someother time.
So I just want to say thank you, Jordan, for being on.
This was great.
Tell the wife and family hello and so keep chasing your dreams, being the best you anddon't die rusty.

(01:19:42):
Don't die rusty, my guy.
Let's go.
Signing off everybody.
Thanks for tuning.

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DDR 043 - Jordan Harbertson: Mt Ops to Blk Flg

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}DDR 043 - Jordan Harbertson: Mt Ops to Blk Flg