April 22, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of the CCPT Purism series, I take a deep dive into one of the most foundational—and often misunderstood—truths of our model: non-directivity works. I respond to common questions and doubts, like “But what if the child needs to learn something?” or “How can they grow if I don’t help them make sense of what they’re doing?” These questions come from a directive mindset, and I explain why we have to challenge those instincts and stay grounded in the CCPT framework.
I explore five key concepts that explain why non-directivity is not passive—it’s deeply responsive to how children grow and heal: self-actualization, symbolic play, insight through experience, the therapeutic relationship as the change agent, and developmental repair. I also share research-based evidence and personal encouragement for staying the course, even when the process looks quiet or messy. This episode is a reminder that doing nothing is doing something—and that’s what makes this model so powerful.
Episode References:
- Bratton, S. C., Ray, D., Rhine, T., & Jones, L. (2005). The efficacy of play therapy with children: A meta-analytic review of treatment outcomes. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 36(4), 376–390. https://doi.org/10.1037/0735-7028.36.4.376
- Ray, D. C. (2011). Advanced play therapy: Essential conditions, knowledge, and skills for child practice. New York, NY: Routledge.
- Landreth, G. L. (2012). Play therapy: The art of the relationship (3rd ed.). New York, NY: Routledge.
- Cochran, N. H., Nordling, W. J., & Cochran, J. L. (2010). Child-centered play therapy: A practical guide to developing therapeutic relationships with children. Hoboken, NJ: Wiley.
- Rogers, C. R. (1951). Client-centered therapy: Its current practice, implications and theory. Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin.
- Rogers, C. R. (1961). On becoming a person: A therapist’s view of psychotherapy. Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin.
PlayTherapyNow.com is my HUB for everything I do! playtherapynow.com. Sign up for my email newsletter, stay ahead with the latest CCPT CEU courses, personalized coaching opportunities and other opportunities you need to thrive in your CCPT practice. If you click one link in these show notes, this is the one to click!
If you would like to ask me questions directly, check out www.ccptcollective.com, where I host two weekly Zoom calls filled with advanced CCPT case studies and session reviews, as well as member Q&A. You can take advantage of the two-week free trial to see if the CCPT Collective is right for you.
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
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CCPT Collective (online community exclusively for CCPTs): https://www.ccptcollective.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapypodcast.com
APT Approved Play Therapy CE courses: https://childcenteredtraining.com
Twitter: @thekidcounselor https://twitter.com/thekidcounselor
Facebook: https://facebook.com/playtherapypodcast
Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E.,
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
we are continuing in the CCPT purism series.
(00:23):
Last episode,
we talked about the subtle ways that we can drift.
And how we don't even sometimes realize that we've drifted away from CCPT
and in today's episode,
we are talking through why being non-directive is effective,
essentially why non-directivity works.
So if you think about the drifts that pull us
(00:46):
out of the model like we covered last week,
this episode is really about why we should remain anchored in the model.
So we have reasons that we might drift away.
These are going to be the reasons that we remain anchored.
So
essentially tackling the
skepticism,
the criticism
that many therapists
(01:08):
and especially outsiders
have about non-directivity
and
really the the purpose of this episode is to kind of lay out the clinical reasoning.
And the developmental rationale
for trusting the child's lead.
And if we do that,
it allows us to stop defaulting
(01:28):
to directive tools
and lean more deeply into the model's power and the model's efficacy.
So,
we are going to talk through why we trust the child's process,
and here's the kicker,
even when it looks like nothing is happening.
That's always the hang up.
Well,
they're not talking.
(01:49):
Well,
they're not playing.
Well,
they're not coming into the playroom.
Well,
they're not addressing their anger.
Well,
they're just building with Legos for six weeks straight.
They're just fill in the blank.
Why do we trust the child's process even when it looks like nothing is happening?
That's what this episode is about.
So,
here are
(02:11):
Common statements that are made,
I mean,
there are variations of them,
but these are kind of the overarching statements as a category
that we hear pretty regularly.
So CCPT is just letting a child do whatever they want.
Or some variation thereof.
Another is,
but what if the child needs to be taught something?
(02:33):
What if the child needs anger management?
What if the child needs coping skills?
What if the child needs breathing techniques?
What if the child needs emotional vocabulary?
OK,
so that's another.
Another
Well,
how can they change?
How can they heal?
How can they grow?
How can they fill in the verb,
(02:55):
if I don't help them make sense of what they're doing?
Oh boy,
that's a slippery slope if I've ever heard one.
OK,
and those are kind of the top 3.
There are certainly more,
but that,
that's kind of a probably a top 3 list all day.
So,
when we think about
those statements,
Well,
(03:15):
I guess technically questions,
we think about those questions,
they very much come from a directive mindset.
And maybe more specifically,
often from therapists who were trained to quote fix.
If you have a background in fixing problems,
solving problems,
addressing problems.
(03:37):
You are the one responsible for making things better.
That's where you end up with those questions in your head.
And the danger of that
is kids aren't broken.
Kids don't need to be fixed.
And so if we have any notion
that we need to fix
(03:58):
and therefore there has to be some agenda.
It's no longer child-centered,
it's no longer non-directive.
But non-directivity is the most effective method.
So we have to be really careful with
that line of thinking,
especially if it comes from previous training.
So let's look at some
(04:20):
research supported concepts that I think will help
look at layers here.
So,
the first,
children know what they need to work on.
We believe that at our core,
or we wouldn't be CCPT.
They know what they need to work on.
Every bit of their play is purposeful.
Nothing is random.
(04:41):
Nothing they say
is random.
Nothing they do is random,
no part of a play session is random.
There's purpose in every second of it.
When they choose not to play,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to cuss you out,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to have a lobby session,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to not speak a word to you for 20 sessions straight,
(05:03):
it's purposeful.
Nothing is random.
When children are given the freedom
and the emotional safety,
they will naturally
address themes.
Conflicts,
dynamics,
they will bring whatever they need to work on
into their play.
(05:23):
They know the things in their lives that need resolution.
We believe that kids know their struggles.
So therefore,
they're going to work on them,
if given emotional freedom and safety within the relationship and the playroom.
This is the self-actualizing tendency.
That's the whole premise,
right?
Let's go back to Rogers.
(05:44):
Humans are wired to self-actualize.
If we believe that,
we also then have to believe that children know what they need to work on.
So this whole notion of what if they need to learn something.
They don't need to learn anything,
they will learn something,
they will figure it out,
they will work through it,
they will solve the problem,
but they don't need to learn anything.
(06:05):
They're self-actualizing,
they'll sort it out.
OK,
second concept
is that symbolic play.
Accesses emotional depth.
And here's what I mean by that.
We know that kids aren't verbal.
They cannot communicate their feelings
with their words most often.
But they can show them symbolically through their play.
(06:28):
So when they lead.
They are following an internal emotional map.
When they lead,
when they're in charge,
when they get to decide what happens in the playroom,
they have an internal emotional map that is guiding every step along the way.
We
don't see it.
We're not aware of it.
(06:50):
Dora just popped into my head.
That's,
that's a digression.
Anyway,
I literally am singing,
I'm the map.
OK,
anyway,
back,
back on track.
When they lead,
we do not see their map,
OK?
But it is there.
It is very accessible to them,
very in their awareness.
So if we interfere,
(07:12):
or if we interrupt,
or if we intervene.
We interrupt their process.
They are following a map.
They have the ability to play,
to access their emotions and the depth of them.
We just need to get out of the way.
They know where they're going.
(07:32):
They know how to get there.
We need to get out of their way.
We serve as the therapeutic guide rails,
not the driver.
Another concept,
insight emerges from their experience.
But never from explanation.
Here's what I mean,
true insight.
Think about a scenario that you have had
(07:54):
where you have had a moment of true insight
about your life,
your relationships,
your situation
like you've had that aha moment,
that light bulb moment.
It has been a moment of true insight for you.
It was felt
That was an experienced felt moment.
It was not taught to you.
(08:16):
Now
I believe sometimes God uses people to
provide insight for us.
I think it's important to seek wise counsel.
I think that we should surround ourselves with people who are going to
advise us
in very healthy and appropriate and wise ways.
But when you experience true insight,
(08:37):
it might have come from something someone said to you,
but that is a felt moment,
not a taught one.
And as children play,
they are integrating their emotional experiences.
They're feeling,
they're emoting,
they're experiencing,
they're integrating all of them together.
It is never through logic.
(08:59):
It is never through interpretation.
It's never through the words that we're saying.
The words that we say are important.
But that is not part of their
experience that they're able to provide insight.
That's not what's happening.
The child will never be able to verbalize their growth.
(09:19):
They're never going to be able to explain their growth.
They're never going to be able to talk about their growth.
They will live it.
Because it's felt
It's experienced
So it is never about explanation.
We don't ever have to teach a child,
talk to a child,
enlighten a child.
They
use
(09:40):
their own experiences to do so.
Next,
the therapeutic relationship,
and we've talked about this so many times,
but it bears repeating.
The therapeutic relationship is the change agent.
CCPT is never about behavior.
It's never about
correcting behavior,
(10:00):
it's never about changing behavior,
it's never about behavior at all.
It's about the child's ability to transform themselves
through the relationship that's built.
And here's why
be with attitudes.
Pop quiz,
what are they?
I'm sure you yelled.
I'm here,
(10:20):
I hear you,
I understand,
I care and I delight in you.
OK,
why?
Because when the child feels accepted.
Unconditionally
Loved unconditionally
seen,
heard,
noticed,
trusted.
When they experience all those things.
Through the relationship.
(10:42):
They internalize that experience.
And guess what it does?
Y'all,
this is so powerful.
It reorganizes their sense of who they are.
They actually are able to reorganize internally
their sense of identity,
their sense of worth,
their sense of concept.
(11:03):
Their sense of who they are,
they're able to reorganize it because of the relationship that is created.
And through that relationship and the be with attitudes and
them feeling accepted and loved and seen and all those things
they internalize it
and they have a new sense of who they are.
Let's go back to Landreth's words,
(11:25):
just noticing a child is a powerful builder of self-esteem.
All we do is create a relationship
where they get to experience.
A connection with an adult unlike any other connection
with any other adult they have in the world.
And they actually reorganize their entire sense of who they are.
It's incredible.
(11:47):
Another concept
They are able
to
develop
self regulation.
They're able to develop self-confidence
and they're able to develop autonomy.
Naturally and organically.
The relationship and the environment are conducive.
(12:09):
to the child actually figuring out how to do this
naturally on their own.
They will naturally regulate,
they will naturally increase self-confidence,
and they will develop autonomy.
Why?
Well,
the relationship and the environment,
we need both.
Their nervous system
is allowed to settle.
Their
(12:29):
emotional regulation
can become more consistent.
They increase their confidence,
their sense of who they are.
They understand self responsibility,
so autonomy is strengthened.
These things will naturally emerge.
They don't need to be taught,
they don't need to be shown,
(12:50):
they don't need to be lectured to.
You don't need a treatment plan,
you don't need any of those things.
Why?
They'll naturally do it.
The relationship and the environment
affords those changes.
This is the developmental repair.
that CCPT offers.
All of those concepts,
all 5 of those concepts,
(13:12):
that allows for developmental repair.
And it comes without instruction.
We're not instructing them on anything.
We're just
being with them.
So
Those are
concepts that I thought was really important to discuss.
We also have evidence.
(13:33):
We have
empirical data
proving this.
You can look at Bratton's meta-analytic research.
That's your probably go to
Ray did some meta-analytic work too,
but
you have meta-analytic research
that shows CCPT is effective
for almost all presenting concerns.
(13:53):
In addition,
so not only do we know that it works for almost every situation.
We also have longitudinal studies
suggesting that lasting change in behavior and regulation and family function
exist long after
the treatment
is no longer present.
That's specifically out of research.
(14:14):
If you look at self-report from CCPTs.
Therapists report
that even quiet.
Or chaotic play
can lead to change and resolution.
So even when a child doesn't talk,
I know I can't see you,
but I'm imagining,
raise your hand
if you have seen progress and change in a child that
(14:35):
has never uttered one word in the playroom to you.
I'm raising mine.
I know you're raising yours because we see it.
Have you ever had a kid come in and be a frantic,
chaotic,
cyclone Tasmanian devil every single session.
And you still see change in resolution?
I'm raising my hand too.
Why?
(14:55):
Because that's anecdotal evidence that we have seen with our own eyes.
And
therapists also
say that children move through play themes.
In their phases
So,
they have their initiation.
And then they have their resistance,
and then they have their work,
then they have termination.
(15:17):
We see it.
So not only do we have empirical
data
indicating that CCPT works,
meaning
non-directive.
We've also seen it work with our own eyes.
So then that begs the question.
Why
is this hard for us?
(15:40):
Why
do we struggle to remain non-directive?
And sometimes
many of us are largely non-directive,
but we have that one thing that we just can't seem to let go of
because of
education because of background,
because of our training in a different field or a different job
(16:01):
because we come from
schools because we whatever the scenario is.
There's usually that one thing that we just can't seem to conquer and let go of
that's maybe not fully directive,
but
a little bit directive.
Why is this so hard for us?
Well,
I would argue
it takes a lot of faith.
(16:22):
And faith's hard to come by sometimes.
It's
the belief in things unseen.
That's hard.
So it requires faith.
It also requires a lot of patience.
And
no one likes to pray for patience.
So,
I mean that's that's hard in and of itself,
(16:44):
and then it takes discipline.
You concoct those three traits.
You find someone that's faith
filled with faith,
patient,
and disciplined,
whew,
they can do anything and go anywhere.
The ticket's written.
Why?
Because
those are difficult traits
(17:05):
to possess and maintain.
So
you have that trifecta,
you have to have faith,
patience and discipline.
That's hard.
It's not impossible.
Look,
one of my favorite phrases is anything worth doing is not easy.
So if you're committed to CCPT,
I promise you I've never,
I've never once told you it's gonna be easy.
(17:25):
It's simple,
but it's not easy.
It's hard.
But it's worthwhile.
And
there's pressure to get quick results,
first of all.
There's pressure to
demonstrate and report progress.
There's pressure to do something
(17:46):
in session,
that's air quoted,
by the way,
you can't see me air quoting,
so I have to say it,
do something,
you know,
it makes us feel better when we can write down that,
oh,
we did a worksheet with them.
Give me a break.
But we feel pressured to do something.
We have to report progress.
We have to show quick results,
but here's the thing.
Just like a child choosing not to choose is a choice.
(18:09):
Just like a child choosing not to play is a trackable behavior.
Doing nothing
As a CCPT therapist
is doing something.
Ponder that as Gary Landreth says.
Ponder that y'all for real.
Ponder that
doing nothing.
(18:30):
As a child-centered play therapist
is doing something.
It's doing a lot of things actually.
Maybe first and foremost,
it's creating space
for the child to do it themselves.
Whatever it is.
When we do nothing.
We're doing
a major something.
(18:52):
We're creating space,
we're trusting them,
we're being patient,
we're being disciplined,
we're staying out of the way.
We are believing the model
and we're saying
you do it.
You can do this.
Wow,
like if that doesn't light a fire,
I don't know what does.
We choose to do nothing because it's doing something.
(19:15):
And trust me,
doing something
is easy.
Doing a worksheet,
doing an activity,
having a discussion.
Creating something as a craft,
looking at a feelings wheel,
you,
you fill in the blank.
It's easy to do that.
You know what's really hard?
(19:37):
Choosing to do nothing because you know that it's what that
child needs and because you know that it's doing something.
So
If you get to a point
where you are questioning whether.
CCPT is working.
In general,
with a specific kid,
with a specific scenario,
(19:57):
with a specific diagnosis,
where whatever your degree of questioning is,
Here are my encouragements to you
first.
Find the most subtle of shifts.
You become a master
at looking for nuanced change.
(20:18):
Rarely is it so overt that it just
hits you like a brick.
Most of the time it's
a grain of sand.
You have to really pay attention and really be attuned,
but there will be subtle shifts.
There will be subtle shift in behavior,
there'll be a subtle shift in
a theme.
(20:39):
There'll be a subtle shift in.
The eye contact check-ins that a child is having with you.
There'll be a subtle shift in what the child says,
or how they say it,
or what words they choose.
There are always absolute on purpose,
subtle shifts.
You just have to be really attuned and present and attentive.
(21:01):
So if at any point you are questioning whether it's working,
challenge yourself to find a subtle shift,
it will be there.
I promise you,
I don't make promises that I can't keep.
I'm very intentional about that.
I promise you you will find a subtle shift if you look for one.
And
track the arc of the child's progress,
(21:22):
not
the minute by minute or session to session.
This is why you have 5-week consults.
If you met with a parent every week,
you would have nothing meaningful to tell them.
But over the course of 5 weeks,
you absolutely can have meaningful dialogue about what's happening.
Why?
Because you're tracking the arc.
You're not looking at,
(21:42):
oh,
in this last 10 minutes something happened.
Sometimes in the last 10 minutes something happened,
but
more often.
You have a sense of,
oh my gosh,
in these last 5 weeks.
Look at that.
Oh,
that,
OK,
that was a change.
Oh,
OK,
that was significant.
Oh wow,
that's a shift.
So look at the arc,
(22:03):
not the day to day.
And then
finally,
if you are questioning whether it's working.
Reflect on
these questions.
Where am I tempted to direct?
It'll give you a lot of insight into
your need.
Is it to fix?
Is it to speed?
(22:23):
Is it to control?
Is it to teach?
Is it to
regulate?
Is it to
that you will figure out
what,
what is driving it?
Where am I tempted to direct?
Start there.
And then
take that further.
What does that say
about my comfort?
(22:46):
What does that say about my comfort in waiting?
What does that say about my comfort with messiness?
What does that say about my comfort with
not
needing to fix things?
Where am I tempted to direct and then what does it say about my comfort?
That's
self awareness,
(23:06):
self analysis.
Those are important.
And then
am I trusting the child.
If you're questioning the process,
you need to ask yourself,
am I trusting the child?
Or am I trying to quote help fix.
Hurry,
(23:27):
work,
amend,
teach,
instruct.
Whatever,
what,
what am I trying to do?
Is it,
is it
to center myself?
Am I trying to do this in a way that centers me?
It's no longer child-centered.
That's therapist centered.
And that's not a model,
(23:47):
so we can't do that.
We can't,
we can't be TCPTs.
That's,
that's not a thing.
We're child-centered.
So,
let's kind of
recap all that.
I know this has been a little bit of a long one,
but this is,
this is important.
Non-directivity works.
We know it does.
(24:09):
Not because it's passive.
Not because the child gets to do whatever they want,
not because we do nothing.
Because it's deeply responsive
to how kids grow.
And how kids
work through
stuff in their lives.
It works.
(24:31):
And doing nothing is doing something.
Print that,
frame that.
Put it up over your desk.
Put it on your bathroom mirror.
Put it on your dashboard in your car.
Doing nothing is doing something.
That's what we're all about.
We are making space for the child to do it themselves.
(24:53):
All right.
So in the next episode,
we're going to look at how we can maintain
CCPT in hard moments.
Maybe especially with
intense behaviors and intense emotions and big stuff happening in the playroom.
How do we maintain
child-centeredness and non-directivity in those scenarios?
(25:15):
So I hope that this was an encouragement to y'all.
I hope that this series has been an encouragement.
I know many of you have emailed me and let me know
that these episodes have been really meaningful and helpful to you.
So
you're why I do this.
I can't do this without you.
I wouldn't do this without you.
Thank you for your commitment,
your investment.
Thank you for recommending this podcast to people.
Thank you for recommending the parenting podcast to people.
(25:36):
I really can't tell you enough.
I
I really do believe and feel like in the depth of my being,
I feel that this is our
podcast,
that this is never Brenna's show,
this is our show.
And so the more that this makes it to other people's ears.
The the better the world is for it.
So really,
truly thank y'all.
(25:57):
I love y'all so much.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
we are continuing in the CCPT purism series.
(00:23):
Last episode,
we talked about the subtle ways that we can drift.
And how we don't even sometimes realize that we've drifted away from CCPT
and in today's episode,
we are talking through why being non-directive is effective,
essentially why non-directivity works.
So if you think about the drifts that pull us
(00:46):
out of the model like we covered last week,
this episode is really about why we should remain anchored in the model.
So we have reasons that we might drift away.
These are going to be the reasons that we remain anchored.
So
essentially tackling the
skepticism,
the criticism
that many therapists
(01:08):
and especially outsiders
have about non-directivity
and
really the the purpose of this episode is to kind of lay out the clinical reasoning.
And the developmental rationale
for trusting the child's lead.
And if we do that,
it allows us to stop defaulting
(01:28):
to directive tools
and lean more deeply into the model's power and the model's efficacy.
So,
we are going to talk through why we trust the child's process,
and here's the kicker,
even when it looks like nothing is happening.
That's always the hang up.
Well,
they're not talking.
(01:49):
Well,
they're not playing.
Well,
they're not coming into the playroom.
Well,
they're not addressing their anger.
Well,
they're just building with Legos for six weeks straight.
They're just fill in the blank.
Why do we trust the child's process even when it looks like nothing is happening?
That's what this episode is about.
So,
here are
(02:11):
Common statements that are made,
I mean,
there are variations of them,
but these are kind of the overarching statements as a category
that we hear pretty regularly.
So CCPT is just letting a child do whatever they want.
Or some variation thereof.
Another is,
but what if the child needs to be taught something?
(02:33):
What if the child needs anger management?
What if the child needs coping skills?
What if the child needs breathing techniques?
What if the child needs emotional vocabulary?
OK,
so that's another.
Another
Well,
how can they change?
How can they heal?
How can they grow?
How can they fill in the verb,
(02:55):
if I don't help them make sense of what they're doing?
Oh boy,
that's a slippery slope if I've ever heard one.
OK,
and those are kind of the top 3.
There are certainly more,
but that,
that's kind of a probably a top 3 list all day.
So,
when we think about
those statements,
Well,
(03:15):
I guess technically questions,
we think about those questions,
they very much come from a directive mindset.
And maybe more specifically,
often from therapists who were trained to quote fix.
If you have a background in fixing problems,
solving problems,
addressing problems.
(03:37):
You are the one responsible for making things better.
That's where you end up with those questions in your head.
And the danger of that
is kids aren't broken.
Kids don't need to be fixed.
And so if we have any notion
that we need to fix
(03:58):
and therefore there has to be some agenda.
It's no longer child-centered,
it's no longer non-directive.
But non-directivity is the most effective method.
So we have to be really careful with
that line of thinking,
especially if it comes from previous training.
So let's look at some
(04:20):
research supported concepts that I think will help
look at layers here.
So,
the first,
children know what they need to work on.
We believe that at our core,
or we wouldn't be CCPT.
They know what they need to work on.
Every bit of their play is purposeful.
Nothing is random.
(04:41):
Nothing they say
is random.
Nothing they do is random,
no part of a play session is random.
There's purpose in every second of it.
When they choose not to play,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to cuss you out,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to have a lobby session,
it's purposeful.
When they choose to not speak a word to you for 20 sessions straight,
(05:03):
it's purposeful.
Nothing is random.
When children are given the freedom
and the emotional safety,
they will naturally
address themes.
Conflicts,
dynamics,
they will bring whatever they need to work on
into their play.
(05:23):
They know the things in their lives that need resolution.
We believe that kids know their struggles.
So therefore,
they're going to work on them,
if given emotional freedom and safety within the relationship and the playroom.
This is the self-actualizing tendency.
That's the whole premise,
right?
Let's go back to Rogers.
(05:44):
Humans are wired to self-actualize.
If we believe that,
we also then have to believe that children know what they need to work on.
So this whole notion of what if they need to learn something.
They don't need to learn anything,
they will learn something,
they will figure it out,
they will work through it,
they will solve the problem,
but they don't need to learn anything.
(06:05):
They're self-actualizing,
they'll sort it out.
OK,
second concept
is that symbolic play.
Accesses emotional depth.
And here's what I mean by that.
We know that kids aren't verbal.
They cannot communicate their feelings
with their words most often.
But they can show them symbolically through their play.
(06:28):
So when they lead.
They are following an internal emotional map.
When they lead,
when they're in charge,
when they get to decide what happens in the playroom,
they have an internal emotional map that is guiding every step along the way.
We
don't see it.
We're not aware of it.
(06:50):
Dora just popped into my head.
That's,
that's a digression.
Anyway,
I literally am singing,
I'm the map.
OK,
anyway,
back,
back on track.
When they lead,
we do not see their map,
OK?
But it is there.
It is very accessible to them,
very in their awareness.
So if we interfere,
(07:12):
or if we interrupt,
or if we intervene.
We interrupt their process.
They are following a map.
They have the ability to play,
to access their emotions and the depth of them.
We just need to get out of the way.
They know where they're going.
(07:32):
They know how to get there.
We need to get out of their way.
We serve as the therapeutic guide rails,
not the driver.
Another concept,
insight emerges from their experience.
But never from explanation.
Here's what I mean,
true insight.
Think about a scenario that you have had
(07:54):
where you have had a moment of true insight
about your life,
your relationships,
your situation
like you've had that aha moment,
that light bulb moment.
It has been a moment of true insight for you.
It was felt
That was an experienced felt moment.
It was not taught to you.
(08:16):
Now
I believe sometimes God uses people to
provide insight for us.
I think it's important to seek wise counsel.
I think that we should surround ourselves with people who are going to
advise us
in very healthy and appropriate and wise ways.
But when you experience true insight,
(08:37):
it might have come from something someone said to you,
but that is a felt moment,
not a taught one.
And as children play,
they are integrating their emotional experiences.
They're feeling,
they're emoting,
they're experiencing,
they're integrating all of them together.
It is never through logic.
(08:59):
It is never through interpretation.
It's never through the words that we're saying.
The words that we say are important.
But that is not part of their
experience that they're able to provide insight.
That's not what's happening.
The child will never be able to verbalize their growth.
(09:19):
They're never going to be able to explain their growth.
They're never going to be able to talk about their growth.
They will live it.
Because it's felt
It's experienced
So it is never about explanation.
We don't ever have to teach a child,
talk to a child,
enlighten a child.
They
use
(09:40):
their own experiences to do so.
Next,
the therapeutic relationship,
and we've talked about this so many times,
but it bears repeating.
The therapeutic relationship is the change agent.
CCPT is never about behavior.
It's never about
correcting behavior,
(10:00):
it's never about changing behavior,
it's never about behavior at all.
It's about the child's ability to transform themselves
through the relationship that's built.
And here's why
be with attitudes.
Pop quiz,
what are they?
I'm sure you yelled.
I'm here,
(10:20):
I hear you,
I understand,
I care and I delight in you.
OK,
why?
Because when the child feels accepted.
Unconditionally
Loved unconditionally
seen,
heard,
noticed,
trusted.
When they experience all those things.
Through the relationship.
(10:42):
They internalize that experience.
And guess what it does?
Y'all,
this is so powerful.
It reorganizes their sense of who they are.
They actually are able to reorganize internally
their sense of identity,
their sense of worth,
their sense of concept.
(11:03):
Their sense of who they are,
they're able to reorganize it because of the relationship that is created.
And through that relationship and the be with attitudes and
them feeling accepted and loved and seen and all those things
they internalize it
and they have a new sense of who they are.
Let's go back to Landreth's words,
(11:25):
just noticing a child is a powerful builder of self-esteem.
All we do is create a relationship
where they get to experience.
A connection with an adult unlike any other connection
with any other adult they have in the world.
And they actually reorganize their entire sense of who they are.
It's incredible.
(11:47):
Another concept
They are able
to
develop
self regulation.
They're able to develop self-confidence
and they're able to develop autonomy.
Naturally and organically.
The relationship and the environment are conducive.
(12:09):
to the child actually figuring out how to do this
naturally on their own.
They will naturally regulate,
they will naturally increase self-confidence,
and they will develop autonomy.
Why?
Well,
the relationship and the environment,
we need both.
Their nervous system
is allowed to settle.
Their
(12:29):
emotional regulation
can become more consistent.
They increase their confidence,
their sense of who they are.
They understand self responsibility,
so autonomy is strengthened.
These things will naturally emerge.
They don't need to be taught,
they don't need to be shown,
(12:50):
they don't need to be lectured to.
You don't need a treatment plan,
you don't need any of those things.
Why?
They'll naturally do it.
The relationship and the environment
affords those changes.
This is the developmental repair.
that CCPT offers.
All of those concepts,
all 5 of those concepts,
(13:12):
that allows for developmental repair.
And it comes without instruction.
We're not instructing them on anything.
We're just
being with them.
So
Those are
concepts that I thought was really important to discuss.
We also have evidence.
(13:33):
We have
empirical data
proving this.
You can look at Bratton's meta-analytic research.
That's your probably go to
Ray did some meta-analytic work too,
but
you have meta-analytic research
that shows CCPT is effective
for almost all presenting concerns.
(13:53):
In addition,
so not only do we know that it works for almost every situation.
We also have longitudinal studies
suggesting that lasting change in behavior and regulation and family function
exist long after
the treatment
is no longer present.
That's specifically out of research.
(14:14):
If you look at self-report from CCPTs.
Therapists report
that even quiet.
Or chaotic play
can lead to change and resolution.
So even when a child doesn't talk,
I know I can't see you,
but I'm imagining,
raise your hand
if you have seen progress and change in a child that
(14:35):
has never uttered one word in the playroom to you.
I'm raising mine.
I know you're raising yours because we see it.
Have you ever had a kid come in and be a frantic,
chaotic,
cyclone Tasmanian devil every single session.
And you still see change in resolution?
I'm raising my hand too.
Why?
(14:55):
Because that's anecdotal evidence that we have seen with our own eyes.
And
therapists also
say that children move through play themes.
In their phases
So,
they have their initiation.
And then they have their resistance,
and then they have their work,
then they have termination.
(15:17):
We see it.
So not only do we have empirical
data
indicating that CCPT works,
meaning
non-directive.
We've also seen it work with our own eyes.
So then that begs the question.
Why
is this hard for us?
(15:40):
Why
do we struggle to remain non-directive?
And sometimes
many of us are largely non-directive,
but we have that one thing that we just can't seem to let go of
because of
education because of background,
because of our training in a different field or a different job
(16:01):
because we come from
schools because we whatever the scenario is.
There's usually that one thing that we just can't seem to conquer and let go of
that's maybe not fully directive,
but
a little bit directive.
Why is this so hard for us?
Well,
I would argue
it takes a lot of faith.
(16:22):
And faith's hard to come by sometimes.
It's
the belief in things unseen.
That's hard.
So it requires faith.
It also requires a lot of patience.
And
no one likes to pray for patience.
So,
I mean that's that's hard in and of itself,
(16:44):
and then it takes discipline.
You concoct those three traits.
You find someone that's faith
filled with faith,
patient,
and disciplined,
whew,
they can do anything and go anywhere.
The ticket's written.
Why?
Because
those are difficult traits
(17:05):
to possess and maintain.
So
you have that trifecta,
you have to have faith,
patience and discipline.
That's hard.
It's not impossible.
Look,
one of my favorite phrases is anything worth doing is not easy.
So if you're committed to CCPT,
I promise you I've never,
I've never once told you it's gonna be easy.
(17:25):
It's simple,
but it's not easy.
It's hard.
But it's worthwhile.
And
there's pressure to get quick results,
first of all.
There's pressure to
demonstrate and report progress.
There's pressure to do something
(17:46):
in session,
that's air quoted,
by the way,
you can't see me air quoting,
so I have to say it,
do something,
you know,
it makes us feel better when we can write down that,
oh,
we did a worksheet with them.
Give me a break.
But we feel pressured to do something.
We have to report progress.
We have to show quick results,
but here's the thing.
Just like a child choosing not to choose is a choice.
(18:09):
Just like a child choosing not to play is a trackable behavior.
Doing nothing
As a CCPT therapist
is doing something.
Ponder that as Gary Landreth says.
Ponder that y'all for real.
Ponder that
doing nothing.
(18:30):
As a child-centered play therapist
is doing something.
It's doing a lot of things actually.
Maybe first and foremost,
it's creating space
for the child to do it themselves.
Whatever it is.
When we do nothing.
We're doing
a major something.
(18:52):
We're creating space,
we're trusting them,
we're being patient,
we're being disciplined,
we're staying out of the way.
We are believing the model
and we're saying
you do it.
You can do this.
Wow,
like if that doesn't light a fire,
I don't know what does.
We choose to do nothing because it's doing something.
(19:15):
And trust me,
doing something
is easy.
Doing a worksheet,
doing an activity,
having a discussion.
Creating something as a craft,
looking at a feelings wheel,
you,
you fill in the blank.
It's easy to do that.
You know what's really hard?
(19:37):
Choosing to do nothing because you know that it's what that
child needs and because you know that it's doing something.
So
If you get to a point
where you are questioning whether.
CCPT is working.
In general,
with a specific kid,
with a specific scenario,
(19:57):
with a specific diagnosis,
where whatever your degree of questioning is,
Here are my encouragements to you
first.
Find the most subtle of shifts.
You become a master
at looking for nuanced change.
(20:18):
Rarely is it so overt that it just
hits you like a brick.
Most of the time it's
a grain of sand.
You have to really pay attention and really be attuned,
but there will be subtle shifts.
There will be subtle shift in behavior,
there'll be a subtle shift in
a theme.
(20:39):
There'll be a subtle shift in.
The eye contact check-ins that a child is having with you.
There'll be a subtle shift in what the child says,
or how they say it,
or what words they choose.
There are always absolute on purpose,
subtle shifts.
You just have to be really attuned and present and attentive.
(21:01):
So if at any point you are questioning whether it's working,
challenge yourself to find a subtle shift,
it will be there.
I promise you,
I don't make promises that I can't keep.
I'm very intentional about that.
I promise you you will find a subtle shift if you look for one.
And
track the arc of the child's progress,
(21:22):
not
the minute by minute or session to session.
This is why you have 5-week consults.
If you met with a parent every week,
you would have nothing meaningful to tell them.
But over the course of 5 weeks,
you absolutely can have meaningful dialogue about what's happening.
Why?
Because you're tracking the arc.
You're not looking at,
(21:42):
oh,
in this last 10 minutes something happened.
Sometimes in the last 10 minutes something happened,
but
more often.
You have a sense of,
oh my gosh,
in these last 5 weeks.
Look at that.
Oh,
that,
OK,
that was a change.
Oh,
OK,
that was significant.
Oh wow,
that's a shift.
So look at the arc,
(22:03):
not the day to day.
And then
finally,
if you are questioning whether it's working.
Reflect on
these questions.
Where am I tempted to direct?
It'll give you a lot of insight into
your need.
Is it to fix?
Is it to speed?
(22:23):
Is it to control?
Is it to teach?
Is it to
regulate?
Is it to
that you will figure out
what,
what is driving it?
Where am I tempted to direct?
Start there.
And then
take that further.
What does that say
about my comfort?
(22:46):
What does that say about my comfort in waiting?
What does that say about my comfort with messiness?
What does that say about my comfort with
not
needing to fix things?
Where am I tempted to direct and then what does it say about my comfort?
That's
self awareness,
(23:06):
self analysis.
Those are important.
And then
am I trusting the child.
If you're questioning the process,
you need to ask yourself,
am I trusting the child?
Or am I trying to quote help fix.
Hurry,
(23:27):
work,
amend,
teach,
instruct.
Whatever,
what,
what am I trying to do?
Is it,
is it
to center myself?
Am I trying to do this in a way that centers me?
It's no longer child-centered.
That's therapist centered.
And that's not a model,
(23:47):
so we can't do that.
We can't,
we can't be TCPTs.
That's,
that's not a thing.
We're child-centered.
So,
let's kind of
recap all that.
I know this has been a little bit of a long one,
but this is,
this is important.
Non-directivity works.
We know it does.
(24:09):
Not because it's passive.
Not because the child gets to do whatever they want,
not because we do nothing.
Because it's deeply responsive
to how kids grow.
And how kids
work through
stuff in their lives.
It works.
(24:31):
And doing nothing is doing something.
Print that,
frame that.
Put it up over your desk.
Put it on your bathroom mirror.
Put it on your dashboard in your car.
Doing nothing is doing something.
That's what we're all about.
We are making space for the child to do it themselves.
(24:53):
All right.
So in the next episode,
we're going to look at how we can maintain
CCPT in hard moments.
Maybe especially with
intense behaviors and intense emotions and big stuff happening in the playroom.
How do we maintain
child-centeredness and non-directivity in those scenarios?
(25:15):
So I hope that this was an encouragement to y'all.
I hope that this series has been an encouragement.
I know many of you have emailed me and let me know
that these episodes have been really meaningful and helpful to you.
So
you're why I do this.
I can't do this without you.
I wouldn't do this without you.
Thank you for your commitment,
your investment.
Thank you for recommending this podcast to people.
Thank you for recommending the parenting podcast to people.
(25:36):
I really can't tell you enough.
I
I really do believe and feel like in the depth of my being,
I feel that this is our
podcast,
that this is never Brenna's show,
this is our show.
And so the more that this makes it to other people's ears.
The the better the world is for it.
So really,
truly thank y'all.
(25:57):
I love y'all so much.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
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