March 24, 2025 • 27 mins
If you're struggling to keep people engaged and loyal in your product or business, check out my FREE gamification course to learn how to do just that: professorgame.com/freecommunity-web
🎤 What do a trivia show, a fake country, and a war against Crocs have in common? You’ll find out in this hilariously high-energy episode of the Professor Game Podcast with Rob and the unforgettable Mark Corona! From founding the micro-nation of Slowjamistan (where Crocs are banned by law 😆) to designing and hosting a national trivia game show unlike any other, Mark shares the wild ride of combining entertainment with meaningful engagement. He dives into stories of tech failures turned learning moments, how games build community and retention in corporate settings, and why persistence is the real superpower behind success. It’s an episode packed with laughs, lessons, and a whole lot of game show magic! 🎮🎙️
Mark Corona is a national trivia host, high-energy speaker, and the founder of his own country. Known for engaging audiences with interactive trivia and unforgettable experiences, he blends entertainment with business insights to engage and retain.
Rob is a host and consultant at Professor Game as well as an expert, international speaker and advocate for the use of gamification and games-based solutions, especially in education and learning. He's also a professor and workshop facilitator for the topics of the podcast and LEGO SERIOUS PLAY (LSP) for top higher education institutions that include EFMD, IE Business School and EBS among others in Europe, America and Asia.
Guest Links and Info
- Website: markcorona.com
- Instagram: @PorderBatrol
- TikTok: @theporderbatrol
Links to episode mentions:
- Recommended book: Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
- Favorite game: Super Mario Bros and The Price is Right
Lets's do stuff together!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, this is Professor Game where we interview successful practitioners of games,gamification and game thinking to help us multiply engagement and loyalty.
I'm Rob Alvarez.
I'm a consultant, I'm a coach, and I'm the founder here at Professor Game.
And I'm also a professor of gamification and game inspired solutions at IE University, IEBusiness School, EFMD, EBS University, and other places around the world.
(00:24):
And before we dive into the interview, you're struggling.
with engagement in your business and are looking to find out how to make your users staywith you, you will find a free community full of resources, quite useful.
You can find it for free in the links below in the description.
So Engagers, welcome back to another episode of the Professor Game Podcast.
(00:45):
And we have Mark with us today.
So Mark, we need to know, are you prepared to engage?
my god, I'm prepared to engage all the time, man.
You have no idea who you're talking to here.
Let's do this.
have Mark Corona, a national trivia host, high energy speaker and the founder of his owncountry.
Known for engaging audiences with interactive trivia and unforgettable experiences, heblends entertainment with business insights to engage and retain.
(01:11):
So Mark, is there anything you want to add or should we dive into what does, you know,creating your
Listen, dive into it.
I think you started off on the right foot.
You did your homework.
I love it.
So yeah, no, we're good to go.
What do mean you found it your own country?
I'm sure the Engagers are curious now.
So it's the first question to get asked no matter what we talk about.
The first question, what the heck is this country you found?
(01:32):
Founded in my own country.
It's called Slow Jamistan.
It's a micro nation really.
It's located about 90 minutes south of Palm Springs, California.
And it's surrounded by the imperialist Americans.
And our country is basically, it's a satirical country really what it is.
And it is a real place.
It is a real place.
Our number one law when it comes to slow jammistan is we do not allow crocs in slowjammistan.
(01:58):
That's our number one law.
And I'm the chief border patrol agent of the country and we have a Sultan.
I'm the chief border patrol agent.
My job is to make sure that I keep croc violators and croc cartels and smugglers out ofslow jammistan.
If I catch you, I will forcibly remove it and beat you over the head with it, which is funfor us, not fun for you.
But you know the croc, right?
(02:18):
The croc shoe, that ugly Swiss cheese looking shoe.
Yeah, we don't allow that.
I don't even know why they're made.
But yeah, we're having to fight for your rights every single day to not have to wearCrocs.
It's a tough job that I have as a Chief Border Patrol agent.
Now, I usually have a different outfit for my Chief Border Patrol agent, but since we'retalking about gaming here today, I had to put on my National Trivia show host suit.
(02:41):
So yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell what Sledgehammer Stand is all about.
There's a lot more to it, but that's the most famous stuff that we're known for is theCrocs.
You mentioned the crocs and I have a few things, like I've been looking into, you know,what's good for your feet for many different reasons.
You know, my daughter, my own feet, et cetera.
But I found that medical professionals, right, tend to wear crocs for their work.
(03:06):
You say, well, they're easy to take on and off.
Yeah, we're gonna cut this interview off right now.
no, they're talking about Crocs.
Yeah, we're done.
Professor, you're riding on thin ice here, my friend.
That's exactly what I mean because how come that the latest recommendations say do notwear crocs and these healthcare professionals are wearing them in the job?
(03:31):
They're the worst thing for your feet.
I just don't get it.
I'm talking doctors, nurses, but physical therapists who tend to be exactly into thatmovement and that kind of stuff.
I just don't get it.
I actually asked somebody and she told me like,
I actually don't know, but they always like, if you don't have your own crocs, they giveyou crocs.
So what is going on that part is they're slippery as well.
(03:54):
why would you use them in the medical profession when you're slippery?
And your feet move inside so you don't have solid grass and your feet are struggling tograb something in there
I don't know, I've never worn them, but I heard that.
But I would hate to wear them and slip or fall with a, especially with a, like a scalpelknife or something, you know?
It's like, dude, all of a sudden you're pretty much knocking out your own neck there.
(04:17):
It's a situation to be in.
I just don't get it.
Run the sling the same boat.
Anyways, let's actually dive into a regular day.
I mean, of course, you can talk about your border patrol.
You can talk about your show.
What do your days actually look like?
If we were to shadow you for, I don't know, a day, week, a month, whatever you want to gofor, what would that look like?
So, you know, every day is exactly like that.
(04:39):
We're to be doing, I'm building games, first of all, for the National Trivia game.
So I'm in my studio right now.
This is the studio where I record the actual game.
So there's a camera right over there in front of me.
There's microphones above me.
And this is where I go on, because I go on as being the national host, the game has me onthe TV screens.
So I record these portions here.
(05:00):
Then we do the audio portions and I go back into the other studio that I have and I startdoing all the edit, excuse me, all the editing.
Sorry, excuse me.
I just got over being sick.
So I apologize Anyway, and and as a Border Patrol agent, I have a Border Patrol truck thatI roll around in all over town and of course with the times that we live in right now
people are like my gosh is Border Patrol.
(05:22):
What is Border Patrol doing in Phoenix, Arizona?
Because normally there's not Border Patrol agents anywhere near Phoenix.
It's usually by the by the you know, the border towns so people see my truck and it getspictures and videos all the time, but
That's what I do on a daily basis.
If I'm not recording games and editing games for the national trivia show, I'm rollingaround in my border patrol truck and just basically having fun.
(05:46):
I'm people the question of muscle Jamestan.
What's that?
And looking for people wearing Crocs.
I will be at a grocery store and I've seen somebody with a Croc and they see my truck.
They're like, sometimes people don't get it that it's a fake border patrol truck becauseit looks so real.
And they'll be like, thank you for your service.
And so I'll turn around and go.
Hey, you're welcome.
As long as you're not wearing Crocs, you're safe, my friend.
(06:07):
And dude, they just laugh and smirk like they don't like.
That's funny, but I don't know what he's talking about.
I can see that they don't know what I'm talking about, but yet they laugh.
I think just out of curi of a courtesy.
You understand what I They're like.
scene maybe a bit of a scare too.
Or maybe that as well.
I was at a Target yesterday and the guy looking at the truck is just staring at it.
(06:29):
He's like, wait a minute.
Hang on.
What does that say?
And I said, and we speak in accent in Slojamistan.
So when I'm in my uniform, I actually I talk like this when I'm in my uniform because thatis the the accent of Slojamistan.
You have to have a Slojamistan accent.
So when the guy asked me, what does your truck say?
I said to my friend, my friend says Porter Patrol.
(06:49):
He goes, what is the Porter Patrol?
We switched the peas and the bees.
And that's how we got the, you know, instead of border patrol, we switched it to Porterpatrol because the U.S.
apparently already had a patent on it.
So.
That's my day, my friend.
My day.
being me is a lot of fun, dude.
Trust me.
Sounds like it.
(07:10):
talking about games and creating games for things that go perhaps even beyondentertainment, what has been one of those experiences where, you know, things just didn't
work out?
You're designing games, you're creating games, you know, sometimes they rise, sometimesthey fall.
Can we go for one of those fall or fail or first attempts at learning stories?
We want to be there with you, take away some of those lessons or see how you came out ofthat fail moment.
(07:32):
You know, in the way that we do gaming, we have a trivia show.
And we're the only ones in the world that are doing trivia the way we do it.
It's like a television show, basically.
And we distribute this to bars and restaurants all over the country.
One of the things that we've experienced, some negative things, some downfalls, has beenwhen a location is ready to get started and you've got 50, 70 people there ready to play a
(07:57):
game, all excited, ready to go, and boom, black screens.
Nothing happens.
and you're sitting there going, what do I do now?
And I've been in that tense situation because you want the game to go and you're like, mygosh, is it?
Dude, it could be a thousand different things.
There's cables running everywhere.
It can be so many things to try and get the game going.
So we've been in situations like that where you have to think on your feet and go, okay,what do you do at this point?
(08:21):
So now we're restarting the systems.
We're trying to log back in and get things going.
So we've experienced things like that before and I'll tell you, it gets tense every singletime because you want your games to be spectacular.
You want people to have such a great time.
And the last thing you want is any kind of glitch to happen during, you know, a gamingmoment.
But unfortunately, sometimes it does happen and the fastest way to get out is doeverything that you can.
(08:46):
If that's restarting the system, if that's logging back in, whatever you have to do,simply do what you need to and don't panic.
Don't show the people that you're panicking.
simply do the job as best as you can.
In some cases, I had to just go live, grab a microphone and just start live and see whathappens until we can get the thing going.
it, like I said, it gets really tense sometimes, man.
I'll panic internally, but I make sure that externally I have a big smile on my face.
(09:12):
Give me a few minutes guys, we're almost there, you know?
And then, you know, inside I'm like, God damn it, son of a, you know, what do I do?
Kind of like when, I know nobody saw this, but when you and I were trying to get thisinterview going this morning, I couldn't get my earbuds going.
And I was already panicking like, we gotta get the damn earbuds going.
Let me restart my computer.
And now we're here with smiles on our faces and no one has any idea what was happeningbehind the scenes.
(09:34):
So it's almost the same thing.
happens in many ways.
So, Mark, is there, I don't know, because this seems to have happened more than once,right?
So now that it's happened, now that you know, quote unquote, how to fix it or not really,because there's oftentimes it's out of your control, but do you do something differently?
Do you have some sort of different preparation?
(09:55):
Do you have plan B?
What has that meant for your practice nowadays after having gone through this situation?
So now we do, now we have processes in place.
So when those things do happen, we have a tech support that's now with us at all times.
And it's really our own company, but we didn't have that available to us before.
was basically figure it out as you go.
(10:16):
If this happens to you in the moment, you got to figure it out as you go.
At least now, you know, can, excuse me, I can make a call and go, hey man, all right, sothis isn't working.
What can we look at?
And now, sorry, now at least somebody is at the control.
and now looking and going, okay, let me help you out with this.
And they can log in and do any restarts I need to do.
They can look at code to see if there's something there that's going wrong.
(10:38):
So now that process, I feel a lot safer and I feel a lot better about when, you know, ifwe have a system go down or something, I know I've got backup and I know that we can
physically go in and look to see if something or at least find out where the problem is atand fix it.
now some of our fixes will take maybe a couple of minutes.
(10:58):
Where before I may have wasted 10, 15 minutes trying to get something going on my own.
But now that we have a process in place, many times it's really minuscule.
Sounds amazing.
So Mark, actually, let's turn it around and talk about a time when things went exactlyyour way or, for whatever reason, it was a massive hit success.
What did that look like?
(11:19):
Maybe some what are some of the success factors that you that you that you saw got youthere?
So I'm not really sure how to answer that question because without sounding, I guess,egotistical, because I don't want to sound this way, but I want to give a fact.
The fact is when things go well, things have gone spectacularly well.
(11:41):
When people play our game, they have so much fun.
It's so exciting.
There's so much energy in the room.
This is 99.9 % of the time we have successful games.
Of course, it's to say we never have problems, right?
Because we obviously do.
You know, we just talked about that.
But for the most part, a successful game every day is just excitement, energy, peopleloving it, can't wait to come back and play again, whether they're playing at a bar and
(12:07):
restaurant or whether they're playing at a corporate event.
People just have a really, really good time and we get so much great feedback from ourgame.
So I'm proud of what we have built because we're the only ones in the world doing this.
We're the only ones.
We created this concept.
and we didn't know how it was gonna turn out.
So we have created such a great product that I'm proud of what this product has turned outto be and the way that it makes people feel.
(12:32):
So every day really is more successful than not.
That sounds absolutely amazing, Mark, can you like, because you've mentioned the use ofbars and restaurants and also in corporate settings, perhaps in corporate settings, what
are the kinds of uses that your games have?
Are they just to get people in the room?
Are they to make people laugh or do you achieve some sort of other objectives when yourgames are in those kind of
(12:56):
it's all of the above.
It's about having fun.
It's about bringing people into the bars and restaurants.
But for the corporate events, on the other hand, it's a little bit different.
It's definitely about having fun, but it's also about retention.
I used to look at our trivia game as just a game.
As just something you were having fun with.
There was a lot of energy and excitement.
Music playing in the background.
Top 40 hits.
(13:16):
A high-energy host like myself.
But I realized it's more than just entertainment.
It's a retention tool.
It's a way to foster...
community.
It's a way to get, for example, in a corporate setting, it's a way to get the ITdepartment to hang out with the receptionist and suddenly discover things about themselves
that they didn't know because in their regular corporate environment, they never reallysee each other.
(13:38):
And if they do, it's in passing, look, hey, how's it going?
Hey, how's it going?
But when you're playing trivia, all of a sudden you're trying to work together to figureout questions and answers and you're having drinks and food and a good time.
So it really fosters that community.
And when I say retention, this is how it retains
employees for corporations, but it also creates an interaction between departments andemployees that they normally would not have.
(14:03):
And that's a huge, huge part of the business that I discovered outside of justentertainment.
Sounds amazing.
And Mark, with all this experience, all the success, as you were mentioning before, andmost of the times that actually works pretty well, people are super excited and super
happy to work with you.
If you were to either create it over again or help somebody else create it or use it forsome other setting, do you have a process?
(14:28):
How do you think about a solution like this when you have to create again a new game forsomething maybe new or help somebody else do it?
Is there a system, a process?
I don't know.
How would you actually achieve that?
Could you guide us through your
You're thinking in that
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know, when we started doing this game, we were learning as we went.
(14:49):
We had no idea what we were doing.
We just had no clue what we doing.
We only knew what we knew at that moment, and we would apply whatever knowledge came to usor whatever we think that we discovered or we think that we figured it out.
We would apply it and then see if it would work.
And many times a lot of things failed.
A lot of things did not work.
There was a lot of stuff that we tried and it just wasn't working.
(15:09):
I remember when we first did this game, like a television show, it was literally, I had asolid background.
The audio wasn't that great.
We discovered that there was audio problems.
I realized that I had to get a different kind of a camera.
I realized that we had to record differently.
There was a lot, just, we just had a lot of, you know, issues at the beginning, but wefigured it out every single time.
(15:31):
We figured it out by feedback.
We figured it out by going out and watching the game ourselves because it's allpre-recorded.
And just seeing what can we do?
What are the issues here?
So at the beginning, the process is really, really tough.
But now, because we've been doing it for almost eight years, now we're in a situationwhere it's just a simple process.
If I had to go over to answer your question, if I had to go back and redo it again, Iwould certainly, I mean, I would love to say, I'd love to get rid of that first part of
(15:59):
the process, but how do you learn and how do you get here if you didn't have that firstpart of the process?
Now, if I could turn around.
and say like you said, know, if I help somebody else with this, you know, yeah, well easy.
Now I can say, take the process we have super simple.
All you have to do is A, B and C.
You don't have to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A, know, all these other things.
Now I can take it as a process and say, here's what we can do with it.
(16:20):
Now I can help you and I can help you cut about 90 % of the issues that we have becausewe've discovered and learned all those things already.
So now I'm going to give you the finished product and how to get into it because now youknow, or now we know.
how to do this.
So I'm saving you a lot of time.
And now they talk about it.
I'm wondering like, Hey, that might be a business idea right there.
(16:41):
We might be able to give you this.
We did all the work.
We'll give it to you for X amount of dollars.
There we go.
I think I just discovered something on this interview, man.
Absolutely, for sure.
you know, eventually growth means that you don't work so much in the business, but on thebusiness.
And that might mean you not being the host of every single show or even at some point,you're not being the host.
(17:04):
Imagine that.
You know, again, depends on what are your objectives?
How do you see the company growing?
mean, I also I also know of huge, massively successful cases where they like to keep itsmall and simple.
team of five people and that's all they want to have.
That's where they want to go.
They don't want to go through other roughness that you also get when you scale to hugeteams or you have something like, yeah, I do this and I have, you know, my McDonald's
(17:31):
model and everybody can open their own McDonald's in their own settings.
So it is definitely depending on what you're aiming for.
And Mark, again, with all this experience, is there any best practice that you canrecommend to other people when, thinking about game shows perhaps?
You know, and I'll say it, but it just applies to really everything in business.
(17:51):
mean, it is at the end of the day.
One of the things that I will always tell people is, you know, just when you think youwant to give up, or just when you're getting to that point, hey, this isn't going to work,
that's probably the point where it's going to work.
And that's probably the point where you shouldn't stop.
When you start having all the doubts, listen, we have a lot, doubts all the time.
(18:12):
There's always going to be doubts, right?
There's always going to be, you're trying to build your business, you're trying to get toa point and you think this isn't going anywhere, this isn't working or this isn't, you my
best advice for that is, you know, keep going until you are 100 % solid, 1000 % solid thatit is not going to work, that nobody really cares for it, right?
With our product, we were realizing that people did care, people wanted it.
(18:34):
At first we had a lot of pushback, you know, and we could have easily given up at first.
You know, we could have said, okay, maybe this is not a good idea.
You know, people aren't really receiving it.
as well as we thought that they were going to receive it.
But as time went by, more people were getting used to the idea.
And I think what really helped us out was when COVID hit.
think that's really what helped everything out because now people are more used to beingon, like you and I are doing right now.
(18:57):
The guy used to be on the line, the guy used to seeing this.
So I think we just happened to be at the right time, really at the right place in atragedy, unfortunately, but it was that moment that allowed us to keep going forward and
then take the concept that wasn't working as well as we wanted it to work.
and then just exploded and actually ended up working.
Because you have been working on it already.
(19:18):
Like if you had started at that point, you probably didn't have the sufficient supportexperience and so on.
And you probably not being in the same place as you are now.
Yeah, and then 100 % true.
If we had given up before COVID, none of this would be here today.
None of it.
But we did give up.
We just kept going.
We used COVID as the, you know, to give us the time to really work on it without anyfeedback.
(19:39):
Imagine that.
Without any feedback.
Now you really don't know if you have something that's worth even putting out there.
Because now you're really going at it alone to find out are people going to love this.
And when we got out of COVID, I guess maybe we got lucky, but people loved it.
It is a great game.
It's a fun, fun game to play.
Very exciting, very energetic.
Awesome!
That sounds great!
(19:59):
So Mark, after hearing these questions, the discussion we've been having, is there anybodythat you would be interested in hearing, any future guests for the Professor Game Podcast?
Is Shakira available?
Anyone you want answering these questions
I don't have anyone other than some other game show host that, I mean, I'd love to see anational or a famous game show host on your podcast.
(20:27):
I mean, that would be fantastic.
I wish I could give you some connection for it, but unfortunately I don't have that.
But outside of that, no, I don't know if there's anybody else that I would like torecommend to you.
I I'd love to.
And I thought about it, believe me, and I was like, man, I just don't have anybody.
That sounds good.
And how about a book?
If you had to recommend a book, which one would it be and why?
(20:48):
Meg, you know, actually, God, I read a lot of several books.
Have you heard of a book called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill?
Absolutely.
Okay, that's a great book.
I still read that to this day.
I've had that book for two years.
I still read it.
There's another one called Ego is the Enemy.
Ego is the Enemy is a great book by Ryan Holiday.
He's got a series of books and I've got all of them, that's actually one of my favorites.
(21:12):
And I think Stillness is another one also by Ryan Holiday.
But if you look at the author Ryan Holiday, he's got some great books.
Dr.
Wayne Dyer is another one that I really like.
So those are three books I truly, truly enjoy.
I've got many.
But those are my go-to right there.
It's Napoleon Hill, Ryan Holiday, Dr.
(21:33):
Wayne Dyer, in that order.
Makes sense.
Thanks for those recommendations.
And in this world of game hosts and entertainment on these kinds of situations, what wouldyou say is your superpower?
That thing that you do better than most other people.
that I do better than most...
man.
(21:54):
You don't have to be literally the single best or the only one.
Like when we talk about superpowers, know, Thor flies, Iron Man flies, Superman flies, youknow, it doesn't have to be 100 % unique.
My superhero is Batman, he doesn't fly, but I like his realism.
I think my superpower would be the fact that I can easily adapt and work with just aboutanybody.
(22:18):
We work with a lot of different personalities, that's not a thing about it, that is mysuperpower.
I'm able to adapt and work with different personalities.
Where most people will clash or find ways of not getting along or, I'd rather not workwith that person.
I'm the kind of person that first says, let me figure out how to work with that person.
So that's my superpower.
I'm really good at working out with it or working with a lot of different personalitieswhere most people have a hard time with.
(22:45):
So I think that's what's been part of my success is that I can be pretty much almostanybody's friend.
Sounds like something that can be very, very useful.
And Mark, next of course to your game and games that you've developed, what would you sayis your favorite game?
Just in general or from the games that we've done ourselves?
(23:06):
I would say next to you the games you've created because of course they are your childrenand now we're exactly from your children that's going to be really hard but perhaps
outside of that you know what would you say is your favorite game?
I've always liked, I don't know if this counts, because we can go either the traditionalgaming as far as like getting your Nintendo out, you know, in gaming, or we can talk about
(23:27):
TV show games.
So if I answer your question, for regular gaming on a controller, I'm old school, I likeSuper Mario.
I'm a big Super Mario fan.
So on the old school tip, I'm a Super Mario guy.
But if we're to talk gaming like on TV, I've always loved The Price is Right.
It was one of my shows growing up and one of the reasons that I wanted to be a game showhost was from watching that show.
(23:50):
those like, if we're talk gaming, those are the two things that I like.
I play Super Mario due to this day, I still have the original Nintendo.
I still have the original Nintendo and I play it on the original Nintendo.
Cool.
Cool.
There's actually a post by a friend, by Andrzej.
He says the framework is what would Mario do?
(24:11):
it's, you know, don't quote me on this one.
I just quickly read it recently again and it's something like you either avoid it, destroyit or eat it.
So I was gonna go with Eden.
That's funny, but avoid and destroy, you're right.
I love that.
It's the three things that you do at least in classical Mario.
(24:31):
it could also be a framework of if you start breaking it down and try to apply it to reallife, it could be applied to so many if not every single situation in life.
Like there's something happening.
What do I do?
Do I avoid it?
Do I destroy it or do I eat it to superpower?
What is this situation about?
I love that, I love that, that's great.
Love that, yep.
(24:53):
Absolutely.
So Mark, this is your time now.
Like let us know where we can find more about you, your work, your games.
I don't know if you have any final piece of advice or final words.
This is essentially your, your mic.
Okay, for advice, I'd like to get more business advice than anything else.
Like I said earlier, don't give up on what you're doing unless you find for 1000%, it'snot gonna work out.
(25:17):
But every time you're get to that point where you think it's gonna be, it's not gonna go,you have your doubts, you gotta keep going, and then you'll find that you were just there.
But as far as where you can find me and what we do and the games and stuff like that, thatwould be my website.
That's the easiest place to go.
That is markcorona.com.
And I tell people Corona like the beer or Corona like the virus.
(25:38):
And they still ask me how to spell it.
I'm like, we just went through a virus.
Do you not know how to spell Corona?
C-O-R-O-N-A.
So markcorona.com.
That's a website.
You'll find out more about me, the games, the live trivia stuff that we do.
And if you live anywhere in the areas that we do these games, you can always come out andhave fun and play them and really enjoy your time.
(26:01):
Sounds like something great to hang out with.
is.
So Mark, once again, thank you for being here, for sharing your experience, yourknowledge, things that you've done, the good and the bad, of course.
However, Mark and Engagers, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to saythat it's game over.
Hey, Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game Podcast.
(26:22):
And since you're interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty,using game-inspired solutions,
How about you join us on our free online community at Professor Game on school.
You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to clickthere, join us.
It's a platform called School is for Free and you will find plenty of resources there.
(26:46):
We'll be up to date with everything that we're doing, any opportunities that we might havefor you.
And of course, before you go into your next mission, before you click continue, pleaseremember
to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of ProfessorGame.
See you there!
Hey, this is Professor Game where we interview successful practitioners of games,gamification and game thinking to help us multiply engagement and loyalty.
I'm Rob Alvarez.
I'm a consultant, I'm a coach, and I'm the founder here at Professor Game.
And I'm also a professor of gamification and game inspired solutions at IE University, IEBusiness School, EFMD, EBS University, and other places around the world.
(00:24):
And before we dive into the interview, you're struggling.
with engagement in your business and are looking to find out how to make your users staywith you, you will find a free community full of resources, quite useful.
You can find it for free in the links below in the description.
So Engagers, welcome back to another episode of the Professor Game Podcast.
(00:45):
And we have Mark with us today.
So Mark, we need to know, are you prepared to engage?
my god, I'm prepared to engage all the time, man.
You have no idea who you're talking to here.
Let's do this.
have Mark Corona, a national trivia host, high energy speaker and the founder of his owncountry.
Known for engaging audiences with interactive trivia and unforgettable experiences, heblends entertainment with business insights to engage and retain.
(01:11):
So Mark, is there anything you want to add or should we dive into what does, you know,creating your
Listen, dive into it.
I think you started off on the right foot.
You did your homework.
I love it.
So yeah, no, we're good to go.
What do mean you found it your own country?
I'm sure the Engagers are curious now.
So it's the first question to get asked no matter what we talk about.
The first question, what the heck is this country you found?
(01:32):
Founded in my own country.
It's called Slow Jamistan.
It's a micro nation really.
It's located about 90 minutes south of Palm Springs, California.
And it's surrounded by the imperialist Americans.
And our country is basically, it's a satirical country really what it is.
And it is a real place.
It is a real place.
Our number one law when it comes to slow jammistan is we do not allow crocs in slowjammistan.
(01:58):
That's our number one law.
And I'm the chief border patrol agent of the country and we have a Sultan.
I'm the chief border patrol agent.
My job is to make sure that I keep croc violators and croc cartels and smugglers out ofslow jammistan.
If I catch you, I will forcibly remove it and beat you over the head with it, which is funfor us, not fun for you.
But you know the croc, right?
(02:18):
The croc shoe, that ugly Swiss cheese looking shoe.
Yeah, we don't allow that.
I don't even know why they're made.
But yeah, we're having to fight for your rights every single day to not have to wearCrocs.
It's a tough job that I have as a Chief Border Patrol agent.
Now, I usually have a different outfit for my Chief Border Patrol agent, but since we'retalking about gaming here today, I had to put on my National Trivia show host suit.
(02:41):
So yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell what Sledgehammer Stand is all about.
There's a lot more to it, but that's the most famous stuff that we're known for is theCrocs.
You mentioned the crocs and I have a few things, like I've been looking into, you know,what's good for your feet for many different reasons.
You know, my daughter, my own feet, et cetera.
But I found that medical professionals, right, tend to wear crocs for their work.
(03:06):
You say, well, they're easy to take on and off.
Yeah, we're gonna cut this interview off right now.
no, they're talking about Crocs.
Yeah, we're done.
Professor, you're riding on thin ice here, my friend.
That's exactly what I mean because how come that the latest recommendations say do notwear crocs and these healthcare professionals are wearing them in the job?
(03:31):
They're the worst thing for your feet.
I just don't get it.
I'm talking doctors, nurses, but physical therapists who tend to be exactly into thatmovement and that kind of stuff.
I just don't get it.
I actually asked somebody and she told me like,
I actually don't know, but they always like, if you don't have your own crocs, they giveyou crocs.
So what is going on that part is they're slippery as well.
(03:54):
why would you use them in the medical profession when you're slippery?
And your feet move inside so you don't have solid grass and your feet are struggling tograb something in there
I don't know, I've never worn them, but I heard that.
But I would hate to wear them and slip or fall with a, especially with a, like a scalpelknife or something, you know?
It's like, dude, all of a sudden you're pretty much knocking out your own neck there.
(04:17):
It's a situation to be in.
I just don't get it.
Run the sling the same boat.
Anyways, let's actually dive into a regular day.
I mean, of course, you can talk about your border patrol.
You can talk about your show.
What do your days actually look like?
If we were to shadow you for, I don't know, a day, week, a month, whatever you want to gofor, what would that look like?
So, you know, every day is exactly like that.
(04:39):
We're to be doing, I'm building games, first of all, for the National Trivia game.
So I'm in my studio right now.
This is the studio where I record the actual game.
So there's a camera right over there in front of me.
There's microphones above me.
And this is where I go on, because I go on as being the national host, the game has me onthe TV screens.
So I record these portions here.
(05:00):
Then we do the audio portions and I go back into the other studio that I have and I startdoing all the edit, excuse me, all the editing.
Sorry, excuse me.
I just got over being sick.
So I apologize Anyway, and and as a Border Patrol agent, I have a Border Patrol truck thatI roll around in all over town and of course with the times that we live in right now
people are like my gosh is Border Patrol.
(05:22):
What is Border Patrol doing in Phoenix, Arizona?
Because normally there's not Border Patrol agents anywhere near Phoenix.
It's usually by the by the you know, the border towns so people see my truck and it getspictures and videos all the time, but
That's what I do on a daily basis.
If I'm not recording games and editing games for the national trivia show, I'm rollingaround in my border patrol truck and just basically having fun.
(05:46):
I'm people the question of muscle Jamestan.
What's that?
And looking for people wearing Crocs.
I will be at a grocery store and I've seen somebody with a Croc and they see my truck.
They're like, sometimes people don't get it that it's a fake border patrol truck becauseit looks so real.
And they'll be like, thank you for your service.
And so I'll turn around and go.
Hey, you're welcome.
As long as you're not wearing Crocs, you're safe, my friend.
(06:07):
And dude, they just laugh and smirk like they don't like.
That's funny, but I don't know what he's talking about.
I can see that they don't know what I'm talking about, but yet they laugh.
I think just out of curi of a courtesy.
You understand what I They're like.
scene maybe a bit of a scare too.
Or maybe that as well.
I was at a Target yesterday and the guy looking at the truck is just staring at it.
(06:29):
He's like, wait a minute.
Hang on.
What does that say?
And I said, and we speak in accent in Slojamistan.
So when I'm in my uniform, I actually I talk like this when I'm in my uniform because thatis the the accent of Slojamistan.
You have to have a Slojamistan accent.
So when the guy asked me, what does your truck say?
I said to my friend, my friend says Porter Patrol.
(06:49):
He goes, what is the Porter Patrol?
We switched the peas and the bees.
And that's how we got the, you know, instead of border patrol, we switched it to Porterpatrol because the U.S.
apparently already had a patent on it.
So.
That's my day, my friend.
My day.
being me is a lot of fun, dude.
Trust me.
Sounds like it.
(07:10):
talking about games and creating games for things that go perhaps even beyondentertainment, what has been one of those experiences where, you know, things just didn't
work out?
You're designing games, you're creating games, you know, sometimes they rise, sometimesthey fall.
Can we go for one of those fall or fail or first attempts at learning stories?
We want to be there with you, take away some of those lessons or see how you came out ofthat fail moment.
(07:32):
You know, in the way that we do gaming, we have a trivia show.
And we're the only ones in the world that are doing trivia the way we do it.
It's like a television show, basically.
And we distribute this to bars and restaurants all over the country.
One of the things that we've experienced, some negative things, some downfalls, has beenwhen a location is ready to get started and you've got 50, 70 people there ready to play a
(07:57):
game, all excited, ready to go, and boom, black screens.
Nothing happens.
and you're sitting there going, what do I do now?
And I've been in that tense situation because you want the game to go and you're like, mygosh, is it?
Dude, it could be a thousand different things.
There's cables running everywhere.
It can be so many things to try and get the game going.
So we've been in situations like that where you have to think on your feet and go, okay,what do you do at this point?
(08:21):
So now we're restarting the systems.
We're trying to log back in and get things going.
So we've experienced things like that before and I'll tell you, it gets tense every singletime because you want your games to be spectacular.
You want people to have such a great time.
And the last thing you want is any kind of glitch to happen during, you know, a gamingmoment.
But unfortunately, sometimes it does happen and the fastest way to get out is doeverything that you can.
(08:46):
If that's restarting the system, if that's logging back in, whatever you have to do,simply do what you need to and don't panic.
Don't show the people that you're panicking.
simply do the job as best as you can.
In some cases, I had to just go live, grab a microphone and just start live and see whathappens until we can get the thing going.
it, like I said, it gets really tense sometimes, man.
I'll panic internally, but I make sure that externally I have a big smile on my face.
(09:12):
Give me a few minutes guys, we're almost there, you know?
And then, you know, inside I'm like, God damn it, son of a, you know, what do I do?
Kind of like when, I know nobody saw this, but when you and I were trying to get thisinterview going this morning, I couldn't get my earbuds going.
And I was already panicking like, we gotta get the damn earbuds going.
Let me restart my computer.
And now we're here with smiles on our faces and no one has any idea what was happeningbehind the scenes.
(09:34):
So it's almost the same thing.
happens in many ways.
So, Mark, is there, I don't know, because this seems to have happened more than once,right?
So now that it's happened, now that you know, quote unquote, how to fix it or not really,because there's oftentimes it's out of your control, but do you do something differently?
Do you have some sort of different preparation?
(09:55):
Do you have plan B?
What has that meant for your practice nowadays after having gone through this situation?
So now we do, now we have processes in place.
So when those things do happen, we have a tech support that's now with us at all times.
And it's really our own company, but we didn't have that available to us before.
was basically figure it out as you go.
(10:16):
If this happens to you in the moment, you got to figure it out as you go.
At least now, you know, can, excuse me, I can make a call and go, hey man, all right, sothis isn't working.
What can we look at?
And now, sorry, now at least somebody is at the control.
and now looking and going, okay, let me help you out with this.
And they can log in and do any restarts I need to do.
They can look at code to see if there's something there that's going wrong.
(10:38):
So now that process, I feel a lot safer and I feel a lot better about when, you know, ifwe have a system go down or something, I know I've got backup and I know that we can
physically go in and look to see if something or at least find out where the problem is atand fix it.
now some of our fixes will take maybe a couple of minutes.
(10:58):
Where before I may have wasted 10, 15 minutes trying to get something going on my own.
But now that we have a process in place, many times it's really minuscule.
Sounds amazing.
So Mark, actually, let's turn it around and talk about a time when things went exactlyyour way or, for whatever reason, it was a massive hit success.
What did that look like?
(11:19):
Maybe some what are some of the success factors that you that you that you saw got youthere?
So I'm not really sure how to answer that question because without sounding, I guess,egotistical, because I don't want to sound this way, but I want to give a fact.
The fact is when things go well, things have gone spectacularly well.
(11:41):
When people play our game, they have so much fun.
It's so exciting.
There's so much energy in the room.
This is 99.9 % of the time we have successful games.
Of course, it's to say we never have problems, right?
Because we obviously do.
You know, we just talked about that.
But for the most part, a successful game every day is just excitement, energy, peopleloving it, can't wait to come back and play again, whether they're playing at a bar and
(12:07):
restaurant or whether they're playing at a corporate event.
People just have a really, really good time and we get so much great feedback from ourgame.
So I'm proud of what we have built because we're the only ones in the world doing this.
We're the only ones.
We created this concept.
and we didn't know how it was gonna turn out.
So we have created such a great product that I'm proud of what this product has turned outto be and the way that it makes people feel.
(12:32):
So every day really is more successful than not.
That sounds absolutely amazing, Mark, can you like, because you've mentioned the use ofbars and restaurants and also in corporate settings, perhaps in corporate settings, what
are the kinds of uses that your games have?
Are they just to get people in the room?
Are they to make people laugh or do you achieve some sort of other objectives when yourgames are in those kind of
(12:56):
it's all of the above.
It's about having fun.
It's about bringing people into the bars and restaurants.
But for the corporate events, on the other hand, it's a little bit different.
It's definitely about having fun, but it's also about retention.
I used to look at our trivia game as just a game.
As just something you were having fun with.
There was a lot of energy and excitement.
Music playing in the background.
Top 40 hits.
(13:16):
A high-energy host like myself.
But I realized it's more than just entertainment.
It's a retention tool.
It's a way to foster...
community.
It's a way to get, for example, in a corporate setting, it's a way to get the ITdepartment to hang out with the receptionist and suddenly discover things about themselves
that they didn't know because in their regular corporate environment, they never reallysee each other.
(13:38):
And if they do, it's in passing, look, hey, how's it going?
Hey, how's it going?
But when you're playing trivia, all of a sudden you're trying to work together to figureout questions and answers and you're having drinks and food and a good time.
So it really fosters that community.
And when I say retention, this is how it retains
employees for corporations, but it also creates an interaction between departments andemployees that they normally would not have.
(14:03):
And that's a huge, huge part of the business that I discovered outside of justentertainment.
Sounds amazing.
And Mark, with all this experience, all the success, as you were mentioning before, andmost of the times that actually works pretty well, people are super excited and super
happy to work with you.
If you were to either create it over again or help somebody else create it or use it forsome other setting, do you have a process?
(14:28):
How do you think about a solution like this when you have to create again a new game forsomething maybe new or help somebody else do it?
Is there a system, a process?
I don't know.
How would you actually achieve that?
Could you guide us through your
You're thinking in that
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know, when we started doing this game, we were learning as we went.
(14:49):
We had no idea what we were doing.
We just had no clue what we doing.
We only knew what we knew at that moment, and we would apply whatever knowledge came to usor whatever we think that we discovered or we think that we figured it out.
We would apply it and then see if it would work.
And many times a lot of things failed.
A lot of things did not work.
There was a lot of stuff that we tried and it just wasn't working.
(15:09):
I remember when we first did this game, like a television show, it was literally, I had asolid background.
The audio wasn't that great.
We discovered that there was audio problems.
I realized that I had to get a different kind of a camera.
I realized that we had to record differently.
There was a lot, just, we just had a lot of, you know, issues at the beginning, but wefigured it out every single time.
(15:31):
We figured it out by feedback.
We figured it out by going out and watching the game ourselves because it's allpre-recorded.
And just seeing what can we do?
What are the issues here?
So at the beginning, the process is really, really tough.
But now, because we've been doing it for almost eight years, now we're in a situationwhere it's just a simple process.
If I had to go over to answer your question, if I had to go back and redo it again, Iwould certainly, I mean, I would love to say, I'd love to get rid of that first part of
(15:59):
the process, but how do you learn and how do you get here if you didn't have that firstpart of the process?
Now, if I could turn around.
and say like you said, know, if I help somebody else with this, you know, yeah, well easy.
Now I can say, take the process we have super simple.
All you have to do is A, B and C.
You don't have to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A, know, all these other things.
Now I can take it as a process and say, here's what we can do with it.
(16:20):
Now I can help you and I can help you cut about 90 % of the issues that we have becausewe've discovered and learned all those things already.
So now I'm going to give you the finished product and how to get into it because now youknow, or now we know.
how to do this.
So I'm saving you a lot of time.
And now they talk about it.
I'm wondering like, Hey, that might be a business idea right there.
(16:41):
We might be able to give you this.
We did all the work.
We'll give it to you for X amount of dollars.
There we go.
I think I just discovered something on this interview, man.
Absolutely, for sure.
you know, eventually growth means that you don't work so much in the business, but on thebusiness.
And that might mean you not being the host of every single show or even at some point,you're not being the host.
(17:04):
Imagine that.
You know, again, depends on what are your objectives?
How do you see the company growing?
mean, I also I also know of huge, massively successful cases where they like to keep itsmall and simple.
team of five people and that's all they want to have.
That's where they want to go.
They don't want to go through other roughness that you also get when you scale to hugeteams or you have something like, yeah, I do this and I have, you know, my McDonald's
(17:31):
model and everybody can open their own McDonald's in their own settings.
So it is definitely depending on what you're aiming for.
And Mark, again, with all this experience, is there any best practice that you canrecommend to other people when, thinking about game shows perhaps?
You know, and I'll say it, but it just applies to really everything in business.
(17:51):
mean, it is at the end of the day.
One of the things that I will always tell people is, you know, just when you think youwant to give up, or just when you're getting to that point, hey, this isn't going to work,
that's probably the point where it's going to work.
And that's probably the point where you shouldn't stop.
When you start having all the doubts, listen, we have a lot, doubts all the time.
(18:12):
There's always going to be doubts, right?
There's always going to be, you're trying to build your business, you're trying to get toa point and you think this isn't going anywhere, this isn't working or this isn't, you my
best advice for that is, you know, keep going until you are 100 % solid, 1000 % solid thatit is not going to work, that nobody really cares for it, right?
With our product, we were realizing that people did care, people wanted it.
(18:34):
At first we had a lot of pushback, you know, and we could have easily given up at first.
You know, we could have said, okay, maybe this is not a good idea.
You know, people aren't really receiving it.
as well as we thought that they were going to receive it.
But as time went by, more people were getting used to the idea.
And I think what really helped us out was when COVID hit.
think that's really what helped everything out because now people are more used to beingon, like you and I are doing right now.
(18:57):
The guy used to be on the line, the guy used to seeing this.
So I think we just happened to be at the right time, really at the right place in atragedy, unfortunately, but it was that moment that allowed us to keep going forward and
then take the concept that wasn't working as well as we wanted it to work.
and then just exploded and actually ended up working.
Because you have been working on it already.
(19:18):
Like if you had started at that point, you probably didn't have the sufficient supportexperience and so on.
And you probably not being in the same place as you are now.
Yeah, and then 100 % true.
If we had given up before COVID, none of this would be here today.
None of it.
But we did give up.
We just kept going.
We used COVID as the, you know, to give us the time to really work on it without anyfeedback.
(19:39):
Imagine that.
Without any feedback.
Now you really don't know if you have something that's worth even putting out there.
Because now you're really going at it alone to find out are people going to love this.
And when we got out of COVID, I guess maybe we got lucky, but people loved it.
It is a great game.
It's a fun, fun game to play.
Very exciting, very energetic.
Awesome!
That sounds great!
(19:59):
So Mark, after hearing these questions, the discussion we've been having, is there anybodythat you would be interested in hearing, any future guests for the Professor Game Podcast?
Is Shakira available?
Anyone you want answering these questions
I don't have anyone other than some other game show host that, I mean, I'd love to see anational or a famous game show host on your podcast.
(20:27):
I mean, that would be fantastic.
I wish I could give you some connection for it, but unfortunately I don't have that.
But outside of that, no, I don't know if there's anybody else that I would like torecommend to you.
I I'd love to.
And I thought about it, believe me, and I was like, man, I just don't have anybody.
That sounds good.
And how about a book?
If you had to recommend a book, which one would it be and why?
(20:48):
Meg, you know, actually, God, I read a lot of several books.
Have you heard of a book called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill?
Absolutely.
Okay, that's a great book.
I still read that to this day.
I've had that book for two years.
I still read it.
There's another one called Ego is the Enemy.
Ego is the Enemy is a great book by Ryan Holiday.
He's got a series of books and I've got all of them, that's actually one of my favorites.
(21:12):
And I think Stillness is another one also by Ryan Holiday.
But if you look at the author Ryan Holiday, he's got some great books.
Dr.
Wayne Dyer is another one that I really like.
So those are three books I truly, truly enjoy.
I've got many.
But those are my go-to right there.
It's Napoleon Hill, Ryan Holiday, Dr.
(21:33):
Wayne Dyer, in that order.
Makes sense.
Thanks for those recommendations.
And in this world of game hosts and entertainment on these kinds of situations, what wouldyou say is your superpower?
That thing that you do better than most other people.
that I do better than most...
man.
(21:54):
You don't have to be literally the single best or the only one.
Like when we talk about superpowers, know, Thor flies, Iron Man flies, Superman flies, youknow, it doesn't have to be 100 % unique.
My superhero is Batman, he doesn't fly, but I like his realism.
I think my superpower would be the fact that I can easily adapt and work with just aboutanybody.
(22:18):
We work with a lot of different personalities, that's not a thing about it, that is mysuperpower.
I'm able to adapt and work with different personalities.
Where most people will clash or find ways of not getting along or, I'd rather not workwith that person.
I'm the kind of person that first says, let me figure out how to work with that person.
So that's my superpower.
I'm really good at working out with it or working with a lot of different personalitieswhere most people have a hard time with.
(22:45):
So I think that's what's been part of my success is that I can be pretty much almostanybody's friend.
Sounds like something that can be very, very useful.
And Mark, next of course to your game and games that you've developed, what would you sayis your favorite game?
Just in general or from the games that we've done ourselves?
(23:06):
I would say next to you the games you've created because of course they are your childrenand now we're exactly from your children that's going to be really hard but perhaps
outside of that you know what would you say is your favorite game?
I've always liked, I don't know if this counts, because we can go either the traditionalgaming as far as like getting your Nintendo out, you know, in gaming, or we can talk about
(23:27):
TV show games.
So if I answer your question, for regular gaming on a controller, I'm old school, I likeSuper Mario.
I'm a big Super Mario fan.
So on the old school tip, I'm a Super Mario guy.
But if we're to talk gaming like on TV, I've always loved The Price is Right.
It was one of my shows growing up and one of the reasons that I wanted to be a game showhost was from watching that show.
(23:50):
those like, if we're talk gaming, those are the two things that I like.
I play Super Mario due to this day, I still have the original Nintendo.
I still have the original Nintendo and I play it on the original Nintendo.
Cool.
Cool.
There's actually a post by a friend, by Andrzej.
He says the framework is what would Mario do?
(24:11):
it's, you know, don't quote me on this one.
I just quickly read it recently again and it's something like you either avoid it, destroyit or eat it.
So I was gonna go with Eden.
That's funny, but avoid and destroy, you're right.
I love that.
It's the three things that you do at least in classical Mario.
(24:31):
it could also be a framework of if you start breaking it down and try to apply it to reallife, it could be applied to so many if not every single situation in life.
Like there's something happening.
What do I do?
Do I avoid it?
Do I destroy it or do I eat it to superpower?
What is this situation about?
I love that, I love that, that's great.
Love that, yep.
(24:53):
Absolutely.
So Mark, this is your time now.
Like let us know where we can find more about you, your work, your games.
I don't know if you have any final piece of advice or final words.
This is essentially your, your mic.
Okay, for advice, I'd like to get more business advice than anything else.
Like I said earlier, don't give up on what you're doing unless you find for 1000%, it'snot gonna work out.
(25:17):
But every time you're get to that point where you think it's gonna be, it's not gonna go,you have your doubts, you gotta keep going, and then you'll find that you were just there.
But as far as where you can find me and what we do and the games and stuff like that, thatwould be my website.
That's the easiest place to go.
That is markcorona.com.
And I tell people Corona like the beer or Corona like the virus.
(25:38):
And they still ask me how to spell it.
I'm like, we just went through a virus.
Do you not know how to spell Corona?
C-O-R-O-N-A.
So markcorona.com.
That's a website.
You'll find out more about me, the games, the live trivia stuff that we do.
And if you live anywhere in the areas that we do these games, you can always come out andhave fun and play them and really enjoy your time.
(26:01):
Sounds like something great to hang out with.
is.
So Mark, once again, thank you for being here, for sharing your experience, yourknowledge, things that you've done, the good and the bad, of course.
However, Mark and Engagers, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to saythat it's game over.
Hey, Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game Podcast.
(26:22):
And since you're interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty,using game-inspired solutions,
How about you join us on our free online community at Professor Game on school.
You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to clickthere, join us.
It's a platform called School is for Free and you will find plenty of resources there.
(26:46):
We'll be up to date with everything that we're doing, any opportunities that we might havefor you.
And of course, before you go into your next mission, before you click continue, pleaseremember
to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of ProfessorGame.
See you there!
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