Welcome back to Scene N Nerd, your go-to podcast for all things superhero! Join your dynamic duo, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk, as they dive headfirst into the latest superhero shenanigans. In this episode, they’re serving up a spicy mix of courtroom drama with "Daredevil: Born Again" and the wild ride that is "Invincible." But first, they talk about the F1 Movie trailer, Will's non-spoiler thoughts on the new movie Novocaine, Sadie Sink Joining Spider-Man 4, and Women's History Month Profile for this week, a history of women superheroes in comic books. (0:00)
Next up, it’s all about the legal drama! Sarah and Will dish on Matt Murdock’s epic struggles in "Daredevil: Born Again." With the trial of Hector Ayala, aka White Tiger, heating up like a courtroom chili, they break down the intense sound design and visual flair that makes this season a must-watch. Get ready for a deep dive into the classic showdown of vengeance vs. justice and the emotional baggage our favorite characters are lugging around. (17:55)
Then, they shift gears to "Invincible," where Mark is facing off against Powerplex, a villain with a serious chip on his shoulder. The hosts dig into the character dynamics and the tough moral dilemmas that arise as both Mark and Powerplex deal with the fallout from some heavy losses. Buckle up as they explore accountability and the impact of snap decisions—because who doesn’t love a good moral quandary? Finally, Sarah and Will wrap things up with their hot takes on the emotional rollercoaster of recent plot twists, including some familiar faces popping back up and new threats lurking in the shadows. With everything gearing up for an epic showdown, they reflect on character growth and the big themes of heroism and sacrifice that run through the series. Spoiler alert: it gets real! (47:00)
Join the conversation and connect with us on X @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Don’t forget to check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you love the show, please drop us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you tune in!
Women in comics: https://fanexpohq.com/fanexpocanada/deep-dive-a-brief-history-of-women-in-marvel-dc-comics/
Sadie Sink
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7519155/
Jack Quaid
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2978362/
Novocaine
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283043/
Spider-Man
https://www.marvel.com/characters/spider-man/on-screen
Daredevil
https://www.marvel.com/characters/daredevil/on-screen
Fan Expo HQ
https://www.fanexpohq.com/
The Last of Us
https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Greetings Nerds This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Thursday evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
I'm doing good. After we had a little pep
talk during the pre show.
>> Will (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, I know. It was. It was a good
pep talk. It was. I know we're nowhere talking about
Daredevil, Born Again and Invincible, but then I was
wondering if you had watched the formula. one
trailer that dropped. F. One trailer dropped today with Brad Pitt.
And, I was. You were like, you know,
just. If you watched it, that's all good.
I. And I did. I really, really
(00:37):
enjoyed it, you know. I know, I know. It was on one of your.
On your list of films, that you're interested in
this year.
>> Sarah (00:44):
Yes.
>> Will (00:44):
And. And that's. And that's what really. That was like. Oh,
let me. Let me check it out. Because, you know, it really wasn't on my
radar before me. I do like open wheel
racing and that kind of stuff, but,
I hadn't really thought about it, but, well, when I saw the trailer
drop today and saw the poster and stuff, I was like, let me just check it out this
evening. And I, you know, I. I really did like it near Brad
(01:05):
Pitt. You know,
he's. The charisma was just oozing off
in this trailer.
>> Sarah (01:11):
Oh, that's good.
>> Will (01:12):
Yeah, yeah. I was really, you know, and it wasn't like
Bullet Train charisma, but like, just good old.
>> Sarah (01:18):
Was it, Was it Moneyball?
>> Will (01:20):
Moneyball. That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:24):
That's what. That's what I would expect
from just the premise of that
movie. is that more of that vibe
leaning into that kind of character that he's playing.
Delayed, but.
>> Will (01:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:36):
Well, I'm, glad it's not on your list. Now,
granted, it comes out on June 26, if
I'm not mistaken.
>> Will (01:43):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:44):
Right before the month. That will be
July.
>> Will (01:48):
Yeah, yeah. We already knew we were
watching in July. Yeah,
yeah.
>> Sarah (01:54):
And. And for. For our listeners who
have been with us for a while, and as Will
always reminds me, at the start of
2025, there was this tiny little show called paradise,
and we've picked up a bunch of listeners as a result
of that. So if you're still relatively new
around here, we will be covering the Last Is
a Last of Us Season two.
(02:18):
We will not be discussing the trailers because Will and
I are trying to hold out and trying to
come into the season as fresh as
possible. I've already,
I already know, what happens
in, in the second game. I knew what happened
in the first game. I, I've seen all of the cut
(02:38):
scenes and everything. Will's a
lot more blind.
>> Will (02:43):
A little bit. A little bit. A
little bit. A little bit more. A little bit more blind. But, but
I do know of a few things that did happen
and, and I'm not going to say it because, you know,
I don't want to spoil it for folks who haven't played the game or haven't watched
the cut scenes. So. But, but yeah, yeah,
I, I do know that they dropped a trailer today.
(03:03):
Not a trailer, a poster today. I know the
trailer is for season two dropped over the
weekend. And yeah, I've seen some like on
Instagram, some of the stuff flowing. But yeah,
I'm just like, okay, keep on going because I'm like you. I don't want to get
spoiled.
>> Sarah (03:18):
No, no, no, no. We know we're gonna watch
it, we're gonna discuss it
very in depthly and we are looking
forward to that. to come in April.
a little bit of news that did happen that we
can discuss. because it doesn't necessarily involve
any visuals, just pure speculation is, the
(03:39):
fact that our beloved Sadie
Singh from Stranger Things has been cast in an
undisclosed role in Spider Man 4. Of course, she
has also previously been rumored to be,
cast as Jean Gray for the
mcu. so the question
now is, is that still the case or is there a
(03:59):
different role that, they are slating her
into, given that it is a Spider man
project, that will make her
supposed debut in.
>> Will (04:10):
Yeah, of course. Yeah, I know that Jean Gray was
the, Even before she was cast in
Spider Man, a lot of folks were speculating as far as
X Men, you know, who would be the
X Men in the mcu. And of course she, she
was listed as Jean Gray. And if that
is indeed the case, then,
with being introduced In Spider Man 4, that
(04:32):
would, that, that, you know what makes
sense. But also, I know some folks have also mentioned Gwen,
Stacy is a possibility as well.
>> Sarah (04:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just,
I, whatever role,
whether it's Gwen Stacy or
whether it is, Jean Gray,
I, I hope the script is good
and the storyline is good because
she captured my
(05:03):
heart in season four of Stranger
Things. And like, she
just sold that whole season
and she, she, she carried
it and, and so I, I was
very excited to hear the rumors about Jean Grey,
I am still excited. Even if it's Gwen
(05:23):
Stacy, just don't waste her.
Okay.
>> Will (05:26):
Right. 100. Yeah,
for sure. For sure. Yeah, that same. And
especially as we, as we get closer to
season five of Stranger Things at some point this year we still
don't have a release date. But but yeah, whenever,
whenever I saw that news and it wasn't just, you know, just some
rando, you know, Twitter or Reddit
(05:47):
account. I mean it was, you know, it was from the trades and stuff. So it
is, it is legit. So so yeah, we'll,
you know, hopefully we'll get word as far as who she's going to
be cast as. at some point
in the near future.
>> Sarah (06:00):
Yeah, that's just further confirmation. We will soon
enough get a Spider Man 4 because
that franchise is just a gift that keeps
giving.
>> Will (06:10):
It is, it
is. Yeah. Sony and
Marvel and Disney managed to make work out there, work
out the issues and Tom Holland signed on the dotted line. So we, we
do know it's. And I guess scheduling
wise, you know, given that
Miles, you know, as far as the spider
verse, who knows when the
(06:32):
final filming act trilogy will come out. But
but we at least know that Spider Man 4 looks like it'll probably be
maybe 2026 at the
earliest. so which would. Which
would also work with the timing as far as the
two the two upcoming Avengers films.
>> Sarah (06:48):
So.
>> Will (06:48):
And I, and I think I may have heard somewhere maybe it was Jeff
Snyder or someone that mentioned that they actually. That Marvel
actually may push back the Everlasting.
>> Sarah (06:56):
Those movies are, are definitely getting pushed back.
I, I think we, we saw the writing on that.
Why? Well, a while ago.
>> Will (07:05):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (07:05):
so you saw a
movie recently and Do you want
to talk a little bit about it?
>> Will (07:12):
Yeah. Yeah. So I was lucky enough to get
a, A pass to go see
Novocaine, which opens tomorrow.
May is March 14th.
and yeah, this is a film starring Jack
Quaid and Amber Midthunder, which you know,
a lot of folks maybe remember us talking about her
(07:33):
when she was in the Predator film that
was on Hulu a few. About a few years ago
that prequel, film. And Yeah,
so just high level stuff.
I mean from the tagline. Jack Quaid
plays a a character who meets
the girl of his dreams. And the thing,
(07:53):
interesting thing about Jack's Quake's character,
his name is Nathan Payne and he has this
genetic disorder that basically allows him
to Be totally impervious to pain. So if you've, the
trailers, you've probably seen
ah, all these like painful
gags and stuff. And you can see the poster here that
if you're, if you're watching this on our, on our YouTube channel.
(08:16):
If you, if you're listening, you can, you can see some of the, you
know, trailers out there. But the premises.
Basically he meets this girl of his dreams,
things happen, she gets kidnapped and then he is
on a quest to, to, to, to rescue her.
And Yeah, and then all kinds of dark humor
tie jinx ensue.
(08:37):
speaking as we were just talking about Spider man, the
actor who plays Tom Holland's buddy,
in the Spider man movies is also in this
film. And Nate, I think his name,
it's a guy in a chair. I can't.
>> Sarah (08:51):
Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I have no idea.
>> Will (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, I can't remember, I can't remember the character's name right now, but he's also in
the film. but you know, I, I, you know, when I saw the
trailers a few months ago, I was kind of like,
yeah, I wasn't so sure about it. But then once I got the,
got the free pass, I was like, okay, you know, I'm not paying any money so I'll
go check this out. And I really, really
ended up enjoying this film. It's a lot of fun. If you're,
(09:14):
if you're, if you're into dark humor and stuff. I
completely, totally recommend it. Jack
Quaid, he, he, he
can't, he carried the film. I mean he, it's, it's, it's right
up his alley. of course, you know, we
all know him from the boys. Star Trek fans know him as
Boimler. so you know, it falls in line with a lot of
the humor that we would see formula get into and
(09:36):
Star Trek, lower decks and and also some of the things that
Huey would get into situations in the boys.
so yeah, I mean Jack's great in it. Ah, Amber's really,
really good and definitely recommend it.
>> Sarah (09:48):
Cool. Very good. and
also you have a new ah,
profile for Women's History Month.
>> Will (09:57):
Yeah, yeah. So for, for Women's History
Month, as for folks who are
new to the pod, we've started this in
during Black History Month and we're continuing it during
Women's History Month of just some notable
things, in, in the geek space, for,
for women and of course African Americans. When
we did the profiles during Black History Month and
(10:20):
this. This month, this week, I wanted to
found a article on a fan
expo, hq, which is. I think it's a big
Comic Con event in Canada. But it was an article
that was written. I was. Want to make sure I give proper credit to, Lizzie
Carr. And she, gave some
profiles of women, in. In the big
two as far as Marvel and dc, as far as the
(10:42):
comic houses, comic book houses. And
really start, you know, really just starts off like, you know,
when. When was the very first
female superhero, introduced it in the comics.
So you know, a lot of folks would probably think that it was
Wonder Woman, who was, you know, introduced in
1941 and all, Star Comics number
eight, by William Moulton, Marston.
(11:04):
But actually the the
first character was a
character named sheena,
in 1938, and
then there's some debate back and forth. But
then the forerunner of Marvel Comics
called Tarpe Comics, excuse me,
Timely Comics, introduced a
(11:27):
character, by the name of Mystery. She was
also known as the Black Fury. And it was written by
a female writer by the name of June
Mills. And she actually used
a pseudonym because at the time,
obviously, you know, it was
probably, probably would not have been as
received if she had used her. Her actual name.
(11:49):
And you know, it's interestingly enough, I like just recently
did a Star Trek episode where I talked about on our
start for a Star Trek show, where they.
Where for example, DC Fontana, who was a writer for Star
Trek, did the same thing where she used her
initials instead of her. Her given name, Dorothy.
Because it, you know, it was
very You know, at the times it was very difficult
(12:11):
for men to you know, to actually use their pen
names, actual names to. To write stories and stuff and get it
published. So so yeah, this was in. This was in the golden
age of comics. And then of course of course,
you know, over to Silver Age, we're all familiar with. But you
know, of course Jean, Gray and Sue Storm
being introduced. Of course, Sue Storm being a founding member of
(12:32):
the Fantastic Four. And then of course you
fast forward to the Bronze age and the
70s and early 80s.
you know, of course we, you know, have introduction to characters like Ms.
Marvel. And then of course, you know, now we
in the future we, you know, have Sea Storm in the modern age, you know,
leading a Fantastic Four. And you know, of course we
have, you know, The Wasp bleeding, the Avengers.
(12:54):
So just wanted to just provide, provide a comic
book profile given that, we, we talk about the live
action iterations of a lot of these characters,
for our Women History Month profile this week. And I'll, I'll
drop the link to the full, story. It's a very, it's a very great
read, by Lizzie, Carr. Just, again, just wanted to give her
proper credit for, for the article that she wrote, for the
(13:15):
Fan Expo HQ website. So,
that's it for the profile for this week.
>> Sarah (13:21):
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. When did
Catwoman come about?
>> Will (13:27):
I think she was a character. She's a DC character, I want
to say. And it was in the, it was in the sil. With the Silver
Age. yeah, if I recall, I can't remember when she
debuted Batman. I don't have it right right in front of me, but.
>> Sarah (13:39):
Right, right, right, right. I, like, well, like when
you were asking like what we think of, I
did go Wonder Woman. But Catwoman was
also in my mind about when, when
she came about. but no, it was
Sheena, which, I mean, if anybody
knows me, like, I just relate that name to a
character on Vanderpump Rules.
(14:04):
Mean living, breathing
Persona.
maybe. Yeah, so, so it's
just, it, it's also, it's just a very
random thing of like, yeah, we're gonna name this
hero Sheena. It's like, yeah, so what's
her real name? Yeah,
(14:24):
like, oh man.
>> Will (14:26):
Another thing I learned too. Like I said, I, I had. I. For.
I don't know if I ever realized that Marvel was, you know, was
called Timely Comics, you know,
in the, in the 30s when it was, when it was first.
First, came on the scene. Of course, you know, you know, DC Comics,
of course, is like, of course action comics for, for years. And then it, you
know, became DC Detect Detective Comics.
(14:48):
So.
>> Sarah (14:49):
Yeah, well, it's, it's
also just like the
the the recency. I
mean, yeah, 1930s,
long time ago, but at the same time,
in the grand scheme of things, not too long
ago. And it's just. And how
(15:10):
it has evolved and I mean
right now in, in post
endgame world, we live in,
just the explosion, and the aftermath
of that kind of boom that occurred in the
2010s of
Marvel and as well as DC. I mean DC is
(15:30):
always going to be around. I mean they have Batman
and Superman's about to make a, a
return and a, hopefully a big
impact and, and like,
the. These. We. We talked, I think, at the
very. When we first started recording. Like,
(15:50):
I. I didn't grow up reading comics. I've. I've never
actually read a comic. But the.
The fact that these stories
through various media
iterations have just become
these, these
myths and these legends. Like,
(16:11):
like, yeah, we. We have the. The gre.
The urban myths and the. And the Greek
legends, but they're. There's something about
these that it's more. It's more current and
timely for today.
That it just is. Is a
fascinating, thing
to. To look into and learn
(16:34):
about and to. To stay informed
of because they keep growing and changing and
evolving.
>> Will (16:40):
Yep, they do. They do.
>> Sarah (16:43):
All right, well, that brings us
to, a myth that we are
continuing on a journey with.
Daredevil Born again. Episode three, the
Hollow of His Hand. The trial
of Hector Alia begins.
Fix. Old business associates seek to claim
his vacant mantle.
(17:06):
Sue. Okay, I
just. I have a
few. I have a few thoughts. And it's funny because
Will stole my line this week.
usually when I watch an episode and
I'm kind of like, okay
about it. I'm not hive. I'm not necessarily
low about it. I just tell him, yeah,
(17:28):
I have some thoughts. But, yeah,
he told me that. And I'm like, well, I'm glad we're on the same
page. so I. I
will kick off things and just say, I
think the fact that the opening
scene of the
Explanation Hector's explaining
(17:49):
to Matt the night before his trial
or the day of his trial,
beginning the. The
sound of the koki.
Sorry, if I mispronounced that. Sorry.
but it's a frog in Puerto Rico
who. Who calls out because they mate
for light for. For life
(18:10):
during sunset. They call out
to their. Their loved one.
and. And we don't hear it. We just get this full
story. So to fast forward,
there is something so haunting
and just a brilliant use of
sound.
>> Will (18:28):
Yes.
>> Sarah (18:29):
To have during the credits, them
playing that sound. I
was. I was just like,
wow, they did that. And.
And arguably it made me think about
the use of sound throughout
this episode and the previous episodes. And they're
just so freaking on point with their sound
(18:51):
design. Because my other
favorite M scene, or arguably
my favorite scene in this entire episode
is a very quiet moment
where it's after the closing
arguments and that alone, the
courtroom is vacant. Enters the courtroom.
(19:12):
But it is. It is, it is
presented not as a court,
but as a church. And they
use choir music. And then you have
him sit almost in a
pew and then you have him hold on to
that piece of his mask that Karen
gave him. And, Because we know
(19:35):
that Matt is also. It's not just Matt's
religious. He's a Catholic boy.
So that very much that.
The. When he pulled it out, he was very much. It
reminded me of like the rosary.
>> Will (19:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (19:51):
All of these elements. And I know they frame the
shot of the courtroom in a way where you will see
clearly in, In God We Trust or,
Or justice or something. I forget
the exact words, but I
just, I thought that was such a good,
fascinating presentation
(20:12):
because of
Matt, who. Yeah, he's vigilante,
but that's like not the point of this
episode. It's more about that
duality between. With
justice and, and
they, they. They did something in
that moment that I don't think they ever did in
(20:35):
the previous seasons of Daredevil
where it was more about that
line of the justice in
the court versus religious
justice, if you know what I'm saying.
So, so yeah, I, I just, I
just want to point out, those few things and just the
overall work,
(20:58):
that they've done in terms of sound.
>> Will (21:00):
Yeah, the sound. You're right. I mean, that was.
And I, And I've, you know, whenever you bring up Puerto
Rico and I've actually been to Lakio beach where,
Hector talked about, that. So, you know, so when he
started talking about the, little frog and
the cookie and, and the sound at the end.
And it really, it's true. I mean, whenever he was
(21:21):
describing it during that scene, I could like hear, you
know, go back to when I was there a year ago
and, and, and remember hearing that in the evening
when I was just, you know, sitting out and in the,
in the. And I
mean, like you said, with the. At the end, it was just haunting,
especially how the episode ended.
(21:41):
you know, which, you know, when I, when I shared with you,
I had thoughts.
I, I like this episode. I did, you
know, and, and, and you know, also
learned that, episodes two and three
were supposed to be the original, you know, kickoff of
the series. The, and, and, and,
and, and I see why, you
(22:04):
know, that it was really going to be the, the driving
force for, I guess,
Matt being born again
or, you know, and, and, and, and everything.
Plus the, you know, plus the, the, the. This.
The discussion that they had in the
episode where. Yes, it was. And I
know we'll get into, into, into it deeper, but,
(22:26):
the Matt when they were having the Right before the
trial started and they were discussing,
you know, Matt, the whole thing about
vigilanteism and, you know. Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (22:38):
Wait, wait, wait. Sorry. Sorry to set the
scene, though. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
They weren't discussing it before because
Matt. The trial had started. Matt plays the
card, though, because he's kind of forced to. And he
reveals Hector's identity as White
Tiger. And then they're talking about. And then they have
(22:58):
this scene about, vigilantism.
But continue.
>> Will (23:02):
Yeah, they have the scene and.
Yeah, I mean, it was just more. That was where I had
thoughts and also just. Just from. Just from a
standpoint where I was. One other
big thing I liked about this episode for me was just
the, the, you know, the legal
aspects of it because I've heard about. You know, I like, you
(23:22):
know, it's well known. I haven't. I didn't watch all the Netflix
series, but, you know, the courtroom drama
aspect of this episode, I, I really,
really appreciate it how they just.
Legal tactics, Matt M. Even the prosecution,
everything about it was just very, very.
A very well done courtroom
(23:42):
episodes because a lot of times
it. Courtroom dramas can be
very. It can really work or
they could just really, just really, really be bad. But this was like Law
and Order Dared, you know, Fall and Order,
Comic Book World. And it was just very, very gripping.
And some of the tactics that happen and some, you know,
and things that Matt engaged in and the arguments
(24:05):
that were made, you know, really, really did resonate with
me. So. So when I, When I could say when I had thoughts, they were actually,
you know, I. I was they of
this episode. Yeah. And the only place where I did
have some negative thoughts was just sort of the. The
ending and we. And just. Just more.
Just more global concerns.
(24:26):
just with. With. No, there's no one in the history of the
White Tiger. And you know, and just the, You know, given
it was the first Latino, Puerto Rican
superhero and just the way it was just taken out like that. I
mean, I know it's a little. It's a. You know, I know he also dies
in the comics, but, you know,
they did a virgin. You know, divergence from how
(24:46):
that happened in the comic. But it's still
like just kind of. It was still a little unsettling given
that we just barely had any time with. With this. And
also just knowing too that the actor played him, you know, you
know, died as well.
>> Sarah (24:59):
Right, right. I was just gonna say the actor who played him did
pass away shortly after. Yeah, I mean, wrapped for
him. So, yeah, yeah. that, that.
Which adds just a more haunting
how, of an. Of the ending
it is. And I think it's supposed to be
unsettling. I think it, for all intents and
purposes, like there,
(25:21):
there wasn't really any action in this episode
besides maybe a car chase scene.
It was a courtroom drama, very self
contained story. I'm grateful
that we're not spending multiple
episodes on the courtroom drama of
Hector. I would,
I mean, thinking about it like, I'm like,
(25:43):
oh, are they gonna stretch it out? No, they, they
used it as a device for.
As we. As. As the
pressure for Matt to return
to being Daredevil builds. and
the escalation. And, and I think that
escalation is just
(26:04):
magnified at the
escalation of Fisk as
well and his tactics. but
you said a lot of different things and I want to get into so
many of them. Sometimes I wish
he would just like start with one.
>> Will (26:20):
Those are just my over. Yeah, no, no, I know, I
know.
>> Sarah (26:24):
Yeah, I know, I know. But,
so, so I guess to,
to just go back because we already talked about it a
little bit in detail. this,
the, the visually empty conversation
after Matt says, f you, we're gonna
try to win. And the only way to do that is
to. For me to appear as a
(26:46):
jackass and use the bit of evidence that
I told. Told the,
the judge that I wouldn't use and the
prosecutor shouldn't use either.
>> Will (26:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:58):
Yep.
>> Will (26:58):
Yeah. Me as a lawyer, I just love. I was just like, oh,
permanent value. You know, I was just like, oh, I was just geek. I was. My
legal, my legal side was just geeking out because I was like, hey, that
reminds me. Yeah. The few years that
I was not much, didn't hardly litigate at all, but there's a little bit
of time I did. I. Yeah, I did make that
argument a few times. And I was just like, you know, it was always cool
whenever we were able to get evidence suppressed.
>> Sarah (27:21):
Yeah. Yeah. so,
so it's revealed and it's a very short
and short, conversation
between them where it's essentially,
you should have asked me first. I
know. And then, and then it
takes this interesting turn, where,
(27:42):
Where Matt is trying
to tell Hector
like, he's better without the
mask. He's still. He doesn't need
the mask. And it's interesting because
they're both vigilantes. They're both
people who at the end of the day
try and go out of their way to do the right
(28:04):
thing. Simultaneously though,
they There was a clear distinction
of where Hector is.
Never has never not want to
embrace that side of him and never
viewed it as an evil side or a
vengeful side. That's what
(28:26):
Matt is dealing with right now.
I mean, it's more about, especially
in the wake of Foggy's death,
about how
that kind of justice
is vengeful. And, and he,
Matt hasn't just lost, Foggy,
he's lost a few other people too in his life.
(28:48):
So was just an
interesting moment of where
I, I, can appreciate in this episode
the subtleness of. You have this
big self contained episode of the
Trial of Hector, AKA White
Tiger. But the
subtlety that they
(29:10):
bring up the moral
and the, the conflict with our
main character, where
it's not overpowering this self contained
story, but it's also still
present as we move on to the next
chapter. Because at the end of the day we really are following
Matt Murdock on his story, and
(29:33):
journey this season. That's paralleled
with, with Fisk who again they
did an awesome transition shot
where we keep seeing the bruised
fist. and it's at the beginning of the
episode there's a close up, I believe
on Fisk and on his, on
his, banged up fist. And then
(29:55):
we transition into Matt's banged up
fist because he didn't kill two police
officers.
>> Will (30:03):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (30:04):
Which was my gripe of the
episode. Which.
>> Will (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same for me
too because I was like, wait a minute, you know, because we spent, you
know, last week when we talked about it, it, it, it seemed
that, that neither one of those guys are going
to walk out of the room and, and the way, in a way it
was presented, it was just like Sherry, come. You know, it was
like. Yeah, it was, it seemed like things
were, they were dead. But
(30:31):
nah, the officer, Officer Powell was,
was talking in the bathroom to, to Matt
and Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (30:39):
Oh, I think, I think Matt was talking more
now.
>> Will (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, he was trying. Well, we attempted to.
>> Sarah (30:45):
But yeah, Matt, it was more of a
conversation. I'm gonna come in here and
so that you can tell me and more importantly
explain to the viewers why I haven't.
Why you're not being arrested.
So, so it was very expositionary.
And then, and then Matt gets him on the stand and
(31:07):
even, continues to take some shots at him.
Oh yeah, but, but yeah,
like, like that was
that suspense. It's, it bothered
me potentially throughout
the entire episode. Just the, the
conveniency. I, I understand it.
(31:27):
yeah, but I, I mean,
if you're gonna have Matt really kick some butt, because
this is now two episodes. The very first two
episodes. I still don't really. I still. They
haven't really explained how Bullseye fell off.
Like Matt pushed Bullseye off
that. The ledge of a three,
(31:47):
four story building. He's fine.
And now. And now we have Officer Pal
notice how we don't see the friend at all.
But I, I'm sure he's alive. He's probably just in the
hospital.
>> Will (32:00):
He's probably. He's probably jacked up in the. Yeah, in the
hospital.
>> Sarah (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
So. So it. Now it's been a few
interactions where Matt comes off as a complete
badass. We assume he's just killed somebody and
he hasn't. but we're only explaining that
after the fact. And it's kind of like, okay guys, he
either need to really be clear, like
he's not killing them because,
(32:26):
because my. It does bother me,
a bit. But,
>> Will (32:30):
But yeah, yeah, it did feel very comic
booky there. But. But to that point as far as
with. With. Again with the examination that
Matt, had on Powell in the courtroom and, and
then, you know, fast forward a little bit to when they
were cherry and. And the
other guy were trying to get the informant, the CI
(32:50):
to to the courthouse. Yeah, Nikki. Nikki
Torres. And you know, I really did like that whole.
The whole sequence of the fake and.
And, and. And all that. And you know, and of course, you know,
again, it's. It's tv, so I knew that Nikki
was going to show up, but I like the way that they
executed it because, it was just. It was just a
(33:12):
very fun thing. And more important with that scene
too is just when. When Nikki,
was testifying in the courtroom
and seeing the. You know, again, to your point
about the visuals and the. The
how they shot the courtroom and. And
all the police officers there and
(33:32):
you know, and just the intimidation. And even when Powell
was testifying, you know, he, He.
He knew that he, you know, all the, you know, all those
folks, you know, they had their back. Especially, you know,
when you see the one officer with the, with the. You know, with
the punisher tattoo and everything
like that.
>> Sarah (33:49):
Right, right.
>> Will (33:50):
Yeah. I mean, it was just like. Yeah, it was.
>> Sarah (33:55):
It's interesting how it changes though,
because that, that half of the
room is still there, still intimidating,
but the moment it comes out that. That
Hector is white tiger.
Matt, very brilliantly as a lawyer,
pulls out all of Their
statements about what an ally
(34:17):
White Tiger is to kind of say
it doesn't make logical sense of why he would attack
some police officer.
>> Will (34:24):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (34:25):
Out of nowhere. Like, like, like
one plus one is not equaling two in this
scenario, if you really think about it. So, so,
and ah, they had reports, so it, it changed.
And, and you, and there was a subtlety,
subtleness in even that side of the
room of a change of like this
(34:45):
realization that
okay, maybe, maybe
we did get it wrong. Or.
Wow. Like, like they're, they're also
doing the math as well, the whole
Punisher thing. And
now, now I'm gonna like, break into
a little bit of, of maybe,
(35:06):
I'm of territory I'm
unfamiliar with because again, I'm not a comic book person. But
I have seen some things that
very subtly we were introduced
to another player in the
first episode. And it was
specifically, from what I understand
at, during the, the book
(35:28):
signing of Matt's girlfriend Amanda,
we were introduced to the character
Muse, who is
also the person we're seeing
make the murals around New York.
Right?
>> Will (35:43):
I believe so. I believe so, yeah. Yeah. Because I know
there's the punishment that triggered. Yeah, that's one of the ones that, was
we got in this episode. Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:51):
Yeah. So I don't know a lot
about this character, but
I, I think I, I don't
know per se if Fisk is the one who
ordered it, considering,
there is this ambiguous character who.
I'm still not quite sure whose side he is
(36:12):
on. but, but
like, it's an it to me, it
feels intentional that we've now
seen the Punisher
single or, the
Punisher, emblem.
>> Will (36:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (36:29):
Like on a mural. We've seen the tattoos
on the dirty cops. We've. And
now the assassinator, the person who
assassinated Hector was wearing
that symbol on, on a vest.
So I, I, I,
those things make me,
(36:49):
make me more keen to think it's
Muse. Now granted, there could always be a
lifeline, but in this episode we're also
presented with this idea that,
that Fisk, he,
he, he's not really the one who's wanting to
go and play with the rats. it's more, it's more
(37:09):
his wife.
>> Will (37:10):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:11):
Yeah. So maybe she
did it because she.
>> Will (37:16):
Said, yeah, she definitely wants, you know, she's not liking the
fact that he's going straight because she's, she has gotten
full head of power, you
know, with, with, without. With the
underworld things that, you know, that Kingpin
used to, used to do before he tried, he's trying to go
straight here, but you know, just
real quick on the, on the, on the sigils and stuff too
(37:39):
with the with the cops and, and you know, one of the
things too is Frank, you know, thinking about Frank
Castle and the motivations
about, you know, why he is the
Punisher versus, you know,
these people who, you know, who are operating under
color of law as far as having, you know, a police
shield and you know, co opting the, the
(38:01):
Punishers symbol, to the point that even
in the comics, you know, Frank actually changes the, the
Sigil because it had gotten abused by, by
these bad actors like that, like that we're seeing and that we're
seeing here in the, in the show. And you know, and
I do appreciate that, you know, Marvel
is, you know, the show has some, some,
(38:22):
some, some depth to it and I think that was the other thing that
you know, that with the abuse of authority
and you know, I think they were really
displaying that in this, in this trial as
well that you know, when Matt, you know, in
addition to, you know, outing Hector, but it was, you know, it
was a larger global sense of things that, that
he was trying to, to, you know, to show as
(38:44):
well.
>> Sarah (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes back to
that idea of like that
gray area of a ah, vigilante
versus someone trying to get revenge
or seeking vengeance
versus a hero. Yeah, like,
or even an anti hero. Like.
(39:07):
And, and I think that's why
especially bringing in the Punisher makes
all the sense in the world and, and should be present
in this because you have, you have
Matt the visual anti. You have, you have
the Punisher, the quote unquote anti hero. And then you have
Fisk who like in his
(39:27):
own right is, is also a three
dimensional character who's not
necessarily purely evil, but
who has gone about the
desire for power in his way and, and also
to protect people. He filled the hole.
Okay,
but, but yeah, I think you raise
(39:50):
a great point that they are,
they are though those shades
of the definition between,
between hero, vigilante, anti
hero are are being
diluted in, in this, in
this story with these characters.
>> Will (40:10):
Yeah yeah. And you know, it even like as I said
with the trial and we can move back all back. You know, we could talk a
little bit about Fisk and Vanessa, but also with summations
that. And their closing arguments whether worth Matt and
also, and even the da, you know, with. I
thought I was really, I really like the DA's closing as well.
Because, you know, he was, he was rebounding. Matt's like, you know, yeah,
Hector may be a good man, but, you know, even good people
(40:33):
to refute some of the testimonials, including a little
shout out to, you know, to Jefferson Morales, you know,
that the, you know, good people can still do bad things.
So, you know, this, this show, I'm really enjoying it
because it's just, it has, when you just sit back
and just really think about some of the themes that they're, they're addressing that
it's, it's, it's, I'm proud of Disney
(40:53):
plus.
>> Sarah (40:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as long as Disney plus has
an R rating, they're good. Yeah,
no, no, no, they've been good. I, I didn't
forget about Agatha all along. That was a
surprise. especially
the ending. But, but yeah, I, I
think my only thing that I really
have left to, to just point out,
(41:18):
before to move on to invincible, is, is
just the, the breakfast
conversation between Fisk and Vanessa
because. Could have
gone longer. I kind of wish it had gone
longer. But again, in the first
episode we have the beautiful scene between
(41:38):
Fisk and Matt in the diner. And this is
another just, just a war of
words and a, and a tennis,
match of, of conversation, of
experience. And that really fleshes out where
these characters are, why they're at
odds with each other and
the, the potential power moves at
(42:00):
play. and yet, and yet there's still,
there's still a clear
attraction and affection
occurring. They're not like,
she's, she's not being held prisoner
in any way. However,
she does, she, she rose to the occasion
(42:21):
while he was gone and she does
not like how he's come back and been like, oh,
well, thank you, but now we're going to do this. And it's like,
whoa, I was in control. I,
I, I was becoming my own.
And, and which, which makes sense.
That length of time apart and then
to have to take control
(42:44):
of that type of organization
like you, you either rise
or you fail. And she rose to the
occasion and she's,
and, and that affected her. Like, she's not
the same person who he
married and not the same person
(43:04):
who he, he left, essentially.
so, and he's trying to come to terms with
that, but also she's now facing the
reality Fisk ain't the same person either.
Now, I say that with like an
asterisk, okay, Because
I know, I know he's, I,
(43:27):
I, I keep using this word because it's the only one
that comes to mind. There's a subtleness happening
here where. Where we're getting a long burn. And
I'm not talking about a romantic long burn. They are
being very careful with how they present
Fisk and. And what we see
and what we're purposely not at the moment
(43:47):
seen. So it's.
It allows for an uneasiness,
and allows for when we actually
see. See, Fisk being
kingpin makes him more
terrifying. and. And. Or at least
that's what I think is happening here. So, did
you have any thoughts about Fisk and
(44:09):
Vanessa or anything else you want to mention before we head
into Invincible?
>> Will (44:14):
You know, I mean, really, I think that covers most
of it. I mean, one thing I know we didn't really talk about
last week with Fisk and Vanessa was, you know, in addition
to the things that you talked about with their relationship and
while he was. Huh?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But
just, you know, just the, You know, there. The other thing that they're
(44:34):
dealing with too, is, Vanessa's infidelity while Fisk
was, with.
>> Sarah (44:39):
With.
>> Will (44:40):
With the character, you know, when he's like, I knew Adam. And so,
so there's that aspect of the gulf
in their relationship as well, and, you know,
that you're trying to. To. To
reconcile in addition to all the other things that you
articulated about the, the power and Vanessa,
you know, keeping things moving while ever. When he was. When he
(45:00):
was, recovering from the, gunshot.
>> Sarah (45:02):
Yeah. All right, well, that brings
us to Invincible. We have two episodes
to cover. We're kind of gonna, cover
them together, as we
normally do. We have episode six. All I can
say is I'm sorry, where
a powerful new figure challenges
Mark's idea of what's right and what's wrong. And
(45:25):
Rey approaches Rex with a big life decision.
And episode seven, what have I Done?
Where Earth's greatest heroes join
forces to fight an unimaginable
threat. And I, I think
it's safe to say, Will, that with these two
episodes, like last week, we were talking
about how it's just like,
(45:49):
these weren't doing it
for. For numerous reasons. And then these
two episodes, it's like, okay, we're back in the
game. Here we
are. We're getting some payoffs.
And, I mean, it started off a little shaky
because essentially episode
six is really about Scott
(46:10):
Duvall, who is a
survivor of the Chicago incident.
But while he survived, his sister
and his niece did not. And
his journey, which. Which
leads him on this journey to becoming Powerplex and
a villain who's after, who wants
justice, by it,
(46:34):
wants justice for what occurred and, and fully
blames Invincible on it as,
as he, as he should in a
way. I kind of like that idea.
But, there's a, between both episodes
there's a lot of conversation about accountability,
I think.
>> Will (46:51):
Yes. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:52):
And, and, and that's what stuck out to
me. And like I can't.
Powerplex kept walking a
line of be, of being like, oh,
this is a really interesting character. And then, oh, you,
you've gone into the mustache twirling villain
archetype here and it, and, and
(47:14):
he throughout both episodes he, he kind of
walked that line. But, and I
think it's almost unpurposeful
because the,
to an extent, at some point it becomes
hypocrisy and it's just like,
okay, yes, that happened
(47:34):
and you, and you should get justice and
your sister and your niece shouldn't have died. And
yes, that, that is so sad and
everything. But then you make
choices
and before you know it, you've inadvertently
killed your wife and son,
(47:55):
which, So, so, and,
but you refuse. Like it's all because of
Invisible. Well, well, yeah, that was an
event, but your reaction
is your own choice to having that
occurred. So I, I, I like that
especially because we're dealing with
Mark. Mark's conflict this season
(48:17):
is all about choices and
his own reactions to things and
him, trying to figure out
what accountability is for him as a
person and as Invincible.
>> Will (48:32):
Yeah, yeah. I mean that, I think that's really
what stood out to me with both of these
episodes. It's just, you know, Mark coming to
grips and even stick on episode six right
now. you know, you know, throughout
the beginning of the episode and throughout
the episode, you know, he was concerned about, you know, the,
(48:52):
the memorial, you know, what happened in Chicago.
and and of course, you know, going there as
Mark, not as Invincible, but but also, you
know, getting back to Powerplex and, and Scott,
the, yeah, he did fall into
sometimes the mustache twirly villain role, but he,
he also reminded me of, you know,
(49:13):
I'll pull a Star Trek reference here of, of Khan,
where he was just so consumed by revenge
that, you know, come hell or high water,
I'm, you know, I don't care who gets hurt even, you
know, and, and also that I'm
going to get my revenge on, On Invincible to the
place where it, you know, like as you said, I mean, he,
(49:34):
in their big fight There at the end of the
episode, he,
you know, he ends up killing his. His family.
And. And then, of course, you know, and then whenever they do see
one another, when Mark, you know, whenever he is finally apprehended and
put in a prison, you know, he's still. That
revenge. I think that's what really just drove it home for me,
was that. That. That hatred and that revenge.
(49:57):
He could, you know, he can't even, like,
you know, it's just fueling him and so,
so, so, so much that, you know, maybe, you know, he's not
introspective. And it was a good contrast juxtaposition between
him and Mark because Mark is.
Is introspective, and he's. He's trying to come to
grips with, like you said, all the, you know, how much
(50:18):
responsibility is all of this due to
him, you know, how much is it, you know, to omn man, because,
you know, that. That initial fight that we saw at the end of the first season,
you know, was him, you know, was him and his dad,
you know, having their big showdown.
and so I. I really. I
think this, you know, episode six and seven
(50:39):
both really just drove this. The season
just kind of kicked into overdrive as far as, like,
wow, this is. This is really, really enjoyable. I'm
liking what they're doing as far as just really
using Mark using, you know, Powerplex as,
As a. As a foil to, you know, to really
show the two. The things that. How.
>> Sarah (50:59):
How.
>> Will (50:59):
How Mark could have easily had gone.
>> Sarah (51:02):
well, and it's also like,
I don't. I don't know if it's how he could have gone.
I think that it's more along the lines,
and it goes back to what we were just talking about
with Daredevil. It's like,
to your point, it went from
justice to vengeance.
>> Will (51:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (51:21):
And then how. Vengeance is
more of the evil side, and
suddenly it's like, no, you're just. You just want
revenge. And then. And then the question is,
once you get revenge, when. Where does it
end?
>> Will (51:37):
Right.
>> Sarah (51:37):
And. And. And I. I kind of like the
idea. Throughout this whole episode, he kept. He
kept trying to. To get.
And Mark kept, inadvertently avoiding
him.
>> Will (51:49):
Yeah, well, Mark. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (51:52):
Which. Which was good. I mean, at first, it really
was inadvertently, and then it was.
Was more like, yeah, you shouldn't be up against this
person because of your own human
issues with, like, what did happen,
during the Chicago incident.
But. But also why I say, I don't think
it's necessarily that he was a Good friend Foil.
(52:15):
For, for Mark, it's that
I think having him and having
episode six set up Powerplex
and kind of be a self contained
episode.
>> Will (52:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:29):
Because of Angstrom
and what the journey we've been on
with the evolution of that character
and vendetta he has had.
He's also someone who has been
consumed with taking out Invincible
because he, because of who
he became as a result of
(52:51):
something that Mark did, but also as a result
of his own choices. So it kind of
allowed us not to
have another Angstrom heavy
episode while at the same time
that. That
theme, to still be carried through and
then setting us up for the big
(53:13):
Angstrom moment. That is just like
the brilliance idea of like, well,
I'm gonna finally show the world how evil Invincible is
by unleashing all of the evil versions of
him on the planet. Yeah, yeah. Cool,
cool, cool.
And then we're gonna play a Billie Eilish song
(53:33):
and really dig deep into the field.
>> Will (53:36):
Yeah, for
sure, for sure. Yeah. yeah, I
think you're. Yeah, you're right. I mean maybe foil is not the right word
for, for Powerplex. I mean I think, you know, I think But
Powerplex, watching these episodes back to
back really, it,
it wasn't as you said, a very self contained episode, but it
(53:57):
did, it did do the
job of of setting up, having that self contained
episode. Did a good job of just sort of setting up
the, you know, whenever we do see Angstrom return
and in episode seven and, and,
and and unleash the plan that, you know,
the thing that Cecil's always been worried about like you
know, what, what would happen if
(54:20):
Mark just you know,
did go full out, you know, evil
Viltrumite. Like you're supposed to and,
and conquer the world and you know, and we see the,
we see the impact of that with all the other marks
from all the other various dimensions and, and things
that, and their stories. with, with some
of them I know there were. With those 18 of them I
(54:42):
believe that he brought in.
>> Sarah (54:44):
Yeah, there, there were, there were a lot of marks
and then there weren't as many marks
and they.
Some of the. Once the marks did get together
after all of the, the days on of
fighting and us losing people. R.I.P.
rex. right when I was starting to like
(55:04):
Rex. But Yeah for me is also like.
I don't like. There's always. It's
really hard. I, I want to believe people
are dead but fool me want
comics.
>> Will (55:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:18):
There's this weird line but
What Was I gonna say. I was gonna say something
about all the.
>> Will (55:26):
All the various marks.
>> Sarah (55:28):
Yeah, I'll. I like that moment.
right before they betray Angstrom, and
they were talking about the,
the, the deals that
they've made with Angstrom and, And the
third. The lines of, like, not all of us
killed Mom. I'm actually here
(55:48):
to grab mom and take her back to my
planet because she's dead. Like, all of
this stuff. And where. Where
it's not necessarily just that they're the
evil versions. Like, their stories
are different. Like, significant
things happen that caused
their outcome to not
(56:10):
be the same as Marx, resulting
in this very different version,
of Invincible, which.
Which is what a. A
plot involving multiple dimensions
should do. Like, that should be.
And I mean, it's taken us a few seasons to
(56:31):
get here, but I. I do
really appreciate the payoff. and.
And so. And on that note, can we just. Can we let
Angstrom be for a little bit and hang out with
his. His now owners, on
the. On the technician world?
Because. Because I also.
I feel like Angstrom at least
(56:54):
has been like, we. We got his
backstory. We got a payoff in season
two. Now we're getting another one in season
three. Okay. And. And hey, Mark.
Mark even killed him at one point or so we
thought. I think. I just.
I feel like the Angstrom card is getting a bit
overplayed. And. And
(57:15):
really we're just now waiting for the
Vulture mite of it all. Because that's the
true. That, That's season four, right?
>> Will (57:25):
Yeah. yeah. I mean, I know the finale dropped today,
so we'll obviously, we'll cover that. That next week, of
course, Conquest there.
>> Sarah (57:32):
But that's where they're headed. They're headed to the
Vulture Mite showdown and everything.
There's a reason why we didn't see,
Allan or Nolan in these
two episodes.
>> Will (57:46):
Yeah, yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, that,
that. That storyline. And obviously
haven't. I haven't watched the finale yet, so I don't know if they show up
in the finale or not. But, But, But yeah, and
I haven't read, you know, I haven't read the comics, so I don't, you know, so
I'm really going in blind with this. With this
story. But, But yeah, you're right. I think it definitely, you know, we will get that
(58:06):
ultimate showdown at some point, in. In season four
or, you know, five
or some point in the future, but.
>> Sarah (58:14):
In the future.
>> Will (58:15):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (58:19):
Yeah. No, I'm just. I'M just,
I, I talked a lot there. So
what, are, what are. Do you like. Is
there anything specifically about episode
seven you want to touch on?
>> Will (58:34):
you know, I think I do.
Other than the there's the fighting
Marks and of course, you know, and we, you know, with
Eve and her, her,
her role of just, you know, being. Helping Mark,
you know, be, be that supportive person
that he, that he needs in, in, in all of
(58:55):
this. and then of course, you know, she was, she was taken
off the board and then Mark,
you know, took himself out of the fight, you know, to be
beside her and you know,
and, and you know, Cecil having to come back
and you know. Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:13):
Can I just say something about the Eve of it all for
a moment? So why I'm
not. And you know me, I'm a classic
shipper. Okay. I love me a romantic storyline.
But we talked about this last week and even with
these episodes we have the awkward interaction
or at first awkward meeting of Amber's new
boyfriend and Mark. Like they
(59:35):
moved too fast.
I have whiplash. And so I
just. The fact that Eve ended up getting hurt
and then Mark refused, like, wanted to stay
by her bedside. I was like, I want, I want
to, I want to feel like
yay. But I don't. I just don't. There's,
there's. For some reason they did
(59:57):
not. They, they rushed and they
didn't do this, in a manner where I can really
get on board with these two for, for whatever
reason, which is weird because I, I
feel like I should have been on board in season one.
like this, this. But it never got
there. So, so that's kind of why I
(01:00:17):
didn't bring that up. But I will say I did like that,
that moment between Mark and Eve's
mom because it was, it was
very. It, it kind of came out of left field
of where she just,
you see, you see her. Just explain
like the irony of it all.
>> Will (01:00:37):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:00:39):
And, and the irony of
having. Of not only,
not only of someone with powers, but the
irony of a parent of someone. Someone. I'm like, I'm
sure Debbie feels the exact same
way with Mark and Oliver.
Like, like she, they
(01:00:59):
want them to be normal, but
their, their abilities are also what's keeping them
safe. It's, it's, it's a double edged
sword. And to come to terms. So I thought that
was such a good character
moment to have amidst a very action
heavy episode.
>> Will (01:01:19):
Yeah, yeah, I like that point.
Yeah, yeah. I Agree with you. I think that was
a good, moment that they added there. And you
know, speaking of like normal too, you know, thinking about Rex
and and Ray, trying to have normal lives
and, and you know, when we go thinking about going back
to episode, you know, 6 and 7
as far as just talking about
(01:01:42):
Ray wanted to give up the superhero life. And, and
we, and we finally do get Rex's backstory as far
as you know, the fact that his parents sold him off.
you know, because you, you know, to, that, to your point about the parents, you
know, Debbie and even Eve's mom, unders,
you know, under the motive. You know, they
are caring and they're concerned about their
kids. No, but, no, also they do know that their powers keep them
(01:02:04):
safe. But at the same time, yeah, there is the risk
that, you know, comes with it. Whereas, you
know, poor Rex, his parents just like basically
used him to, you know, they, they were in poverty and he just, they just
sold them all so they could just, you know, make a buck.
And, and, and the impact of that where
he just basically became a you know, you know, like,
(01:02:25):
like Homelander where he just grew up in. It, grew up in the seat
in the lab and, and you know, and it, you know,
and how it impact how it impacted
him and then finally like, you know, whenever we do,
like you said, having get
into the redemption story for Rex splode and then, you
know, and then we, and then we lose them and I, I,
(01:02:46):
you know, and I do think Rex is, Rex is
gone unfortunately. But but you know,
but it I, I like the way that even
with the supporting characters in this show,
they, they're, they're, they're really helping them to
become, you know, three dimensional people because I mean Rex
really was a two dimensional jerk when we first met him in season
one. And we've seen the growth over, over time
(01:03:08):
and then, you know, but, but to the point where we're just talking about,
you know, trying to have normal lives. You know, these, these,
these people can't, and I think just this, this show
does you know, it does explore like
the how, how you know, how
superheroes can't, have normal lives.
because even if they try to walk away, they'll
get pulled right back in because even Ray was trying to suit
(01:03:31):
up, when, when the threat came and,
and, and Rex was like, no, no, you know, you're
walking away. But you know, but she still felt the need to
suit up.
>> Sarah (01:03:41):
Yeah, yeah, very
Cool. Very cool. All right,
well, on that note, we,
>> Will (01:03:49):
One last little cool note too. With the episode that
at the end there, it was, you know, for Walking
Dead fans, even though. And. And
Supernatural fans and everybody else. So the
actor, the voice actor who was doing a voice
for Conquest, Jeffrey D.
Morgan. And,
and, ah, yeah. And then, of course, you know, Steven Yen does,
(01:04:11):
you know, Mark's voice. So just got a little reunion there of, Walking
Dead with, with, Negan and Stephen Yan's
character.
>> Sarah (01:04:18):
Well, yeah, the creator is. The show
is. Yeah, right.
>> Will (01:04:22):
Yeah, I know. It's Kirkman. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought it was just pretty cool, this
one. You know, Just want a little, little, Little
tidbit that I just thought was. Was really, was really cool
scene there there at the end of, episode seven.
>> Sarah (01:04:34):
Yeah. And I mean, I'm surprised you also didn't say in
Grey's Anatomy fans, I mean, Jeffy Dean M.
Morgan, AKA Denny.
>> Will (01:04:41):
Oh, yeah,
you got. So we got some for everybody.
>> Sarah (01:04:49):
You put Jeffrey Dean Morgan. You have a bunch of
different audiences. That's what we use them.
That's why they use them. And then they,
Oh, on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners
where they can find you?
>> Will (01:05:03):
Yes, you can find me at, Will and Polk, W
I L L M P O L K. Wherever you
get your socials.
>> Sarah (01:05:11):
And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont, sjbl
M O N T. Please follow our crew on Twitter
@Cena Nerd on, blue sky at Scene N Nerd.
Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at
scene, underscore n, underscore nerd and visit our
website www.scenanerdpod.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
(01:05:31):
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good
night. Geek out. You're welcome.
>> Will (01:05:53):
It.
Greetings Nerds This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Thursday evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
I'm doing good. After we had a little pep
talk during the pre show.
>> Will (00:14):
Yeah, yeah, I know. It was. It was a good
pep talk. It was. I know we're nowhere talking about
Daredevil, Born Again and Invincible, but then I was
wondering if you had watched the formula. one
trailer that dropped. F. One trailer dropped today with Brad Pitt.
And, I was. You were like, you know,
just. If you watched it, that's all good.
I. And I did. I really, really
(00:37):
enjoyed it, you know. I know, I know. It was on one of your.
On your list of films, that you're interested in
this year.
>> Sarah (00:44):
Yes.
>> Will (00:44):
And. And that's. And that's what really. That was like. Oh,
let me. Let me check it out. Because, you know, it really wasn't on my
radar before me. I do like open wheel
racing and that kind of stuff, but,
I hadn't really thought about it, but, well, when I saw the trailer
drop today and saw the poster and stuff, I was like, let me just check it out this
evening. And I, you know, I. I really did like it near Brad
(01:05):
Pitt. You know,
he's. The charisma was just oozing off
in this trailer.
>> Sarah (01:11):
Oh, that's good.
>> Will (01:12):
Yeah, yeah. I was really, you know, and it wasn't like
Bullet Train charisma, but like, just good old.
>> Sarah (01:18):
Was it, Was it Moneyball?
>> Will (01:20):
Moneyball. That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:24):
That's what. That's what I would expect
from just the premise of that
movie. is that more of that vibe
leaning into that kind of character that he's playing.
Delayed, but.
>> Will (01:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:36):
Well, I'm, glad it's not on your list. Now,
granted, it comes out on June 26, if
I'm not mistaken.
>> Will (01:43):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:44):
Right before the month. That will be
July.
>> Will (01:48):
Yeah, yeah. We already knew we were
watching in July. Yeah,
yeah.
>> Sarah (01:54):
And. And for. For our listeners who
have been with us for a while, and as Will
always reminds me, at the start of
2025, there was this tiny little show called paradise,
and we've picked up a bunch of listeners as a result
of that. So if you're still relatively new
around here, we will be covering the Last Is
a Last of Us Season two.
(02:18):
We will not be discussing the trailers because Will and
I are trying to hold out and trying to
come into the season as fresh as
possible. I've already,
I already know, what happens
in, in the second game. I knew what happened
in the first game. I, I've seen all of the cut
(02:38):
scenes and everything. Will's a
lot more blind.
>> Will (02:43):
A little bit. A little bit. A
little bit. A little bit more. A little bit more blind. But, but
I do know of a few things that did happen
and, and I'm not going to say it because, you know,
I don't want to spoil it for folks who haven't played the game or haven't watched
the cut scenes. So. But, but yeah, yeah,
I, I do know that they dropped a trailer today.
(03:03):
Not a trailer, a poster today. I know the
trailer is for season two dropped over the
weekend. And yeah, I've seen some like on
Instagram, some of the stuff flowing. But yeah,
I'm just like, okay, keep on going because I'm like you. I don't want to get
spoiled.
>> Sarah (03:18):
No, no, no, no. We know we're gonna watch
it, we're gonna discuss it
very in depthly and we are looking
forward to that. to come in April.
a little bit of news that did happen that we
can discuss. because it doesn't necessarily involve
any visuals, just pure speculation is, the
(03:39):
fact that our beloved Sadie
Singh from Stranger Things has been cast in an
undisclosed role in Spider Man 4. Of course, she
has also previously been rumored to be,
cast as Jean Gray for the
mcu. so the question
now is, is that still the case or is there a
(03:59):
different role that, they are slating her
into, given that it is a Spider man
project, that will make her
supposed debut in.
>> Will (04:10):
Yeah, of course. Yeah, I know that Jean Gray was
the, Even before she was cast in
Spider Man, a lot of folks were speculating as far as
X Men, you know, who would be the
X Men in the mcu. And of course she, she
was listed as Jean Gray. And if that
is indeed the case, then,
with being introduced In Spider Man 4, that
(04:32):
would, that, that, you know what makes
sense. But also, I know some folks have also mentioned Gwen,
Stacy is a possibility as well.
>> Sarah (04:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just,
I, whatever role,
whether it's Gwen Stacy or
whether it is, Jean Gray,
I, I hope the script is good
and the storyline is good because
she captured my
(05:03):
heart in season four of Stranger
Things. And like, she
just sold that whole season
and she, she, she carried
it and, and so I, I was
very excited to hear the rumors about Jean Grey,
I am still excited. Even if it's Gwen
(05:23):
Stacy, just don't waste her.
Okay.
>> Will (05:26):
Right. 100. Yeah,
for sure. For sure. Yeah, that same. And
especially as we, as we get closer to
season five of Stranger Things at some point this year we still
don't have a release date. But but yeah, whenever,
whenever I saw that news and it wasn't just, you know, just some
rando, you know, Twitter or Reddit
(05:47):
account. I mean it was, you know, it was from the trades and stuff. So it
is, it is legit. So so yeah, we'll,
you know, hopefully we'll get word as far as who she's going to
be cast as. at some point
in the near future.
>> Sarah (06:00):
Yeah, that's just further confirmation. We will soon
enough get a Spider Man 4 because
that franchise is just a gift that keeps
giving.
>> Will (06:10):
It is, it
is. Yeah. Sony and
Marvel and Disney managed to make work out there, work
out the issues and Tom Holland signed on the dotted line. So we, we
do know it's. And I guess scheduling
wise, you know, given that
Miles, you know, as far as the spider
verse, who knows when the
(06:32):
final filming act trilogy will come out. But
but we at least know that Spider Man 4 looks like it'll probably be
maybe 2026 at the
earliest. so which would. Which
would also work with the timing as far as the
two the two upcoming Avengers films.
>> Sarah (06:48):
So.
>> Will (06:48):
And I, and I think I may have heard somewhere maybe it was Jeff
Snyder or someone that mentioned that they actually. That Marvel
actually may push back the Everlasting.
>> Sarah (06:56):
Those movies are, are definitely getting pushed back.
I, I think we, we saw the writing on that.
Why? Well, a while ago.
>> Will (07:05):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (07:05):
so you saw a
movie recently and Do you want
to talk a little bit about it?
>> Will (07:12):
Yeah. Yeah. So I was lucky enough to get
a, A pass to go see
Novocaine, which opens tomorrow.
May is March 14th.
and yeah, this is a film starring Jack
Quaid and Amber Midthunder, which you know,
a lot of folks maybe remember us talking about her
(07:33):
when she was in the Predator film that
was on Hulu a few. About a few years ago
that prequel, film. And Yeah,
so just high level stuff.
I mean from the tagline. Jack Quaid
plays a a character who meets
the girl of his dreams. And the thing,
(07:53):
interesting thing about Jack's Quake's character,
his name is Nathan Payne and he has this
genetic disorder that basically allows him
to Be totally impervious to pain. So if you've, the
trailers, you've probably seen
ah, all these like painful
gags and stuff. And you can see the poster here that
if you're, if you're watching this on our, on our YouTube channel.
(08:16):
If you, if you're listening, you can, you can see some of the, you
know, trailers out there. But the premises.
Basically he meets this girl of his dreams,
things happen, she gets kidnapped and then he is
on a quest to, to, to, to rescue her.
And Yeah, and then all kinds of dark humor
tie jinx ensue.
(08:37):
speaking as we were just talking about Spider man, the
actor who plays Tom Holland's buddy,
in the Spider man movies is also in this
film. And Nate, I think his name,
it's a guy in a chair. I can't.
>> Sarah (08:51):
Yeah, I know who you're talking about. I have no idea.
>> Will (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, I can't remember, I can't remember the character's name right now, but he's also in
the film. but you know, I, I, you know, when I saw the
trailers a few months ago, I was kind of like,
yeah, I wasn't so sure about it. But then once I got the,
got the free pass, I was like, okay, you know, I'm not paying any money so I'll
go check this out. And I really, really
ended up enjoying this film. It's a lot of fun. If you're,
(09:14):
if you're, if you're into dark humor and stuff. I
completely, totally recommend it. Jack
Quaid, he, he, he
can't, he carried the film. I mean he, it's, it's, it's right
up his alley. of course, you know, we
all know him from the boys. Star Trek fans know him as
Boimler. so you know, it falls in line with a lot of
the humor that we would see formula get into and
(09:36):
Star Trek, lower decks and and also some of the things that
Huey would get into situations in the boys.
so yeah, I mean Jack's great in it. Ah, Amber's really,
really good and definitely recommend it.
>> Sarah (09:48):
Cool. Very good. and
also you have a new ah,
profile for Women's History Month.
>> Will (09:57):
Yeah, yeah. So for, for Women's History
Month, as for folks who are
new to the pod, we've started this in
during Black History Month and we're continuing it during
Women's History Month of just some notable
things, in, in the geek space, for,
for women and of course African Americans. When
we did the profiles during Black History Month and
(10:20):
this. This month, this week, I wanted to
found a article on a fan
expo, hq, which is. I think it's a big
Comic Con event in Canada. But it was an article
that was written. I was. Want to make sure I give proper credit to, Lizzie
Carr. And she, gave some
profiles of women, in. In the big
two as far as Marvel and dc, as far as the
(10:42):
comic houses, comic book houses. And
really start, you know, really just starts off like, you know,
when. When was the very first
female superhero, introduced it in the comics.
So you know, a lot of folks would probably think that it was
Wonder Woman, who was, you know, introduced in
1941 and all, Star Comics number
eight, by William Moulton, Marston.
(11:04):
But actually the the
first character was a
character named sheena,
in 1938, and
then there's some debate back and forth. But
then the forerunner of Marvel Comics
called Tarpe Comics, excuse me,
Timely Comics, introduced a
(11:27):
character, by the name of Mystery. She was
also known as the Black Fury. And it was written by
a female writer by the name of June
Mills. And she actually used
a pseudonym because at the time,
obviously, you know, it was
probably, probably would not have been as
received if she had used her. Her actual name.
(11:49):
And you know, it's interestingly enough, I like just recently
did a Star Trek episode where I talked about on our
start for a Star Trek show, where they.
Where for example, DC Fontana, who was a writer for Star
Trek, did the same thing where she used her
initials instead of her. Her given name, Dorothy.
Because it, you know, it was
very You know, at the times it was very difficult
(12:11):
for men to you know, to actually use their pen
names, actual names to. To write stories and stuff and get it
published. So so yeah, this was in. This was in the golden
age of comics. And then of course of course,
you know, over to Silver Age, we're all familiar with. But you
know, of course Jean, Gray and Sue Storm
being introduced. Of course, Sue Storm being a founding member of
(12:32):
the Fantastic Four. And then of course you
fast forward to the Bronze age and the
70s and early 80s.
you know, of course we, you know, have introduction to characters like Ms.
Marvel. And then of course, you know, now we
in the future we, you know, have Sea Storm in the modern age, you know,
leading a Fantastic Four. And you know, of course we
have, you know, The Wasp bleeding, the Avengers.
(12:54):
So just wanted to just provide, provide a comic
book profile given that, we, we talk about the live
action iterations of a lot of these characters,
for our Women History Month profile this week. And I'll, I'll
drop the link to the full, story. It's a very, it's a very great
read, by Lizzie, Carr. Just, again, just wanted to give her
proper credit for, for the article that she wrote, for the
(13:15):
Fan Expo HQ website. So,
that's it for the profile for this week.
>> Sarah (13:21):
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. When did
Catwoman come about?
>> Will (13:27):
I think she was a character. She's a DC character, I want
to say. And it was in the, it was in the sil. With the Silver
Age. yeah, if I recall, I can't remember when she
debuted Batman. I don't have it right right in front of me, but.
>> Sarah (13:39):
Right, right, right, right. I, like, well, like when
you were asking like what we think of, I
did go Wonder Woman. But Catwoman was
also in my mind about when, when
she came about. but no, it was
Sheena, which, I mean, if anybody
knows me, like, I just relate that name to a
character on Vanderpump Rules.
(14:04):
Mean living, breathing
Persona.
maybe. Yeah, so, so it's
just, it, it's also, it's just a very
random thing of like, yeah, we're gonna name this
hero Sheena. It's like, yeah, so what's
her real name? Yeah,
(14:24):
like, oh man.
>> Will (14:26):
Another thing I learned too. Like I said, I, I had. I. For.
I don't know if I ever realized that Marvel was, you know, was
called Timely Comics, you know,
in the, in the 30s when it was, when it was first.
First, came on the scene. Of course, you know, you know, DC Comics,
of course, is like, of course action comics for, for years. And then it, you
know, became DC Detect Detective Comics.
(14:48):
So.
>> Sarah (14:49):
Yeah, well, it's, it's
also just like the
the the recency. I
mean, yeah, 1930s,
long time ago, but at the same time,
in the grand scheme of things, not too long
ago. And it's just. And how
(15:10):
it has evolved and I mean
right now in, in post
endgame world, we live in,
just the explosion, and the aftermath
of that kind of boom that occurred in the
2010s of
Marvel and as well as DC. I mean DC is
(15:30):
always going to be around. I mean they have Batman
and Superman's about to make a, a
return and a, hopefully a big
impact and, and like,
the. These. We. We talked, I think, at the
very. When we first started recording. Like,
(15:50):
I. I didn't grow up reading comics. I've. I've never
actually read a comic. But the.
The fact that these stories
through various media
iterations have just become
these, these
myths and these legends. Like,
(16:11):
like, yeah, we. We have the. The gre.
The urban myths and the. And the Greek
legends, but they're. There's something about
these that it's more. It's more current and
timely for today.
That it just is. Is a
fascinating, thing
to. To look into and learn
(16:34):
about and to. To stay informed
of because they keep growing and changing and
evolving.
>> Will (16:40):
Yep, they do. They do.
>> Sarah (16:43):
All right, well, that brings us
to, a myth that we are
continuing on a journey with.
Daredevil Born again. Episode three, the
Hollow of His Hand. The trial
of Hector Alia begins.
Fix. Old business associates seek to claim
his vacant mantle.
(17:06):
Sue. Okay, I
just. I have a
few. I have a few thoughts. And it's funny because
Will stole my line this week.
usually when I watch an episode and
I'm kind of like, okay
about it. I'm not hive. I'm not necessarily
low about it. I just tell him, yeah,
(17:28):
I have some thoughts. But, yeah,
he told me that. And I'm like, well, I'm glad we're on the same
page. so I. I
will kick off things and just say, I
think the fact that the opening
scene of the
Explanation Hector's explaining
(17:49):
to Matt the night before his trial
or the day of his trial,
beginning the. The
sound of the koki.
Sorry, if I mispronounced that. Sorry.
but it's a frog in Puerto Rico
who. Who calls out because they mate
for light for. For life
(18:10):
during sunset. They call out
to their. Their loved one.
and. And we don't hear it. We just get this full
story. So to fast forward,
there is something so haunting
and just a brilliant use of
sound.
>> Will (18:28):
Yes.
>> Sarah (18:29):
To have during the credits, them
playing that sound. I
was. I was just like,
wow, they did that. And.
And arguably it made me think about
the use of sound throughout
this episode and the previous episodes. And they're
just so freaking on point with their sound
(18:51):
design. Because my other
favorite M scene, or arguably
my favorite scene in this entire episode
is a very quiet moment
where it's after the closing
arguments and that alone, the
courtroom is vacant. Enters the courtroom.
(19:12):
But it is. It is, it is
presented not as a court,
but as a church. And they
use choir music. And then you have
him sit almost in a
pew and then you have him hold on to
that piece of his mask that Karen
gave him. And, Because we know
(19:35):
that Matt is also. It's not just Matt's
religious. He's a Catholic boy.
So that very much that.
The. When he pulled it out, he was very much. It
reminded me of like the rosary.
>> Will (19:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (19:51):
All of these elements. And I know they frame the
shot of the courtroom in a way where you will see
clearly in, In God We Trust or,
Or justice or something. I forget
the exact words, but I
just, I thought that was such a good,
fascinating presentation
(20:12):
because of
Matt, who. Yeah, he's vigilante,
but that's like not the point of this
episode. It's more about that
duality between. With
justice and, and
they, they. They did something in
that moment that I don't think they ever did in
(20:35):
the previous seasons of Daredevil
where it was more about that
line of the justice in
the court versus religious
justice, if you know what I'm saying.
So, so yeah, I, I just, I
just want to point out, those few things and just the
overall work,
(20:58):
that they've done in terms of sound.
>> Will (21:00):
Yeah, the sound. You're right. I mean, that was.
And I, And I've, you know, whenever you bring up Puerto
Rico and I've actually been to Lakio beach where,
Hector talked about, that. So, you know, so when he
started talking about the, little frog and
the cookie and, and the sound at the end.
And it really, it's true. I mean, whenever he was
(21:21):
describing it during that scene, I could like hear, you
know, go back to when I was there a year ago
and, and, and remember hearing that in the evening
when I was just, you know, sitting out and in the,
in the. And I
mean, like you said, with the. At the end, it was just haunting,
especially how the episode ended.
(21:41):
you know, which, you know, when I, when I shared with you,
I had thoughts.
I, I like this episode. I did, you
know, and, and, and you know, also
learned that, episodes two and three
were supposed to be the original, you know, kickoff of
the series. The, and, and, and,
and, and I see why, you
(22:04):
know, that it was really going to be the, the driving
force for, I guess,
Matt being born again
or, you know, and, and, and, and everything.
Plus the, you know, plus the, the, the. This.
The discussion that they had in the
episode where. Yes, it was. And I
know we'll get into, into, into it deeper, but,
(22:26):
the Matt when they were having the Right before the
trial started and they were discussing,
you know, Matt, the whole thing about
vigilanteism and, you know. Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (22:38):
Wait, wait, wait. Sorry. Sorry to set the
scene, though. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
They weren't discussing it before because
Matt. The trial had started. Matt plays the
card, though, because he's kind of forced to. And he
reveals Hector's identity as White
Tiger. And then they're talking about. And then they have
(22:58):
this scene about, vigilantism.
But continue.
>> Will (23:02):
Yeah, they have the scene and.
Yeah, I mean, it was just more. That was where I had
thoughts and also just. Just from. Just from a
standpoint where I was. One other
big thing I liked about this episode for me was just
the, the, you know, the legal
aspects of it because I've heard about. You know, I like, you
(23:22):
know, it's well known. I haven't. I didn't watch all the Netflix
series, but, you know, the courtroom drama
aspect of this episode, I, I really,
really appreciate it how they just.
Legal tactics, Matt M. Even the prosecution,
everything about it was just very, very.
A very well done courtroom
(23:42):
episodes because a lot of times
it. Courtroom dramas can be
very. It can really work or
they could just really, just really, really be bad. But this was like Law
and Order Dared, you know, Fall and Order,
Comic Book World. And it was just very, very gripping.
And some of the tactics that happen and some, you know,
and things that Matt engaged in and the arguments
(24:05):
that were made, you know, really, really did resonate with
me. So. So when I, When I could say when I had thoughts, they were actually,
you know, I. I was they of
this episode. Yeah. And the only place where I did
have some negative thoughts was just sort of the. The
ending and we. And just. Just more.
Just more global concerns.
(24:26):
just with. With. No, there's no one in the history of the
White Tiger. And you know, and just the, You know, given
it was the first Latino, Puerto Rican
superhero and just the way it was just taken out like that. I
mean, I know it's a little. It's a. You know, I know he also dies
in the comics, but, you know,
they did a virgin. You know, divergence from how
(24:46):
that happened in the comic. But it's still
like just kind of. It was still a little unsettling given
that we just barely had any time with. With this. And
also just knowing too that the actor played him, you know, you
know, died as well.
>> Sarah (24:59):
Right, right. I was just gonna say the actor who played him did
pass away shortly after. Yeah, I mean, wrapped for
him. So, yeah, yeah. that, that.
Which adds just a more haunting
how, of an. Of the ending
it is. And I think it's supposed to be
unsettling. I think it, for all intents and
purposes, like there,
(25:21):
there wasn't really any action in this episode
besides maybe a car chase scene.
It was a courtroom drama, very self
contained story. I'm grateful
that we're not spending multiple
episodes on the courtroom drama of
Hector. I would,
I mean, thinking about it like, I'm like,
(25:43):
oh, are they gonna stretch it out? No, they, they
used it as a device for.
As we. As. As the
pressure for Matt to return
to being Daredevil builds. and
the escalation. And, and I think that
escalation is just
(26:04):
magnified at the
escalation of Fisk as
well and his tactics. but
you said a lot of different things and I want to get into so
many of them. Sometimes I wish
he would just like start with one.
>> Will (26:20):
Those are just my over. Yeah, no, no, I know, I
know.
>> Sarah (26:24):
Yeah, I know, I know. But,
so, so I guess to,
to just go back because we already talked about it a
little bit in detail. this,
the, the visually empty conversation
after Matt says, f you, we're gonna
try to win. And the only way to do that is
to. For me to appear as a
(26:46):
jackass and use the bit of evidence that
I told. Told the,
the judge that I wouldn't use and the
prosecutor shouldn't use either.
>> Will (26:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:58):
Yep.
>> Will (26:58):
Yeah. Me as a lawyer, I just love. I was just like, oh,
permanent value. You know, I was just like, oh, I was just geek. I was. My
legal, my legal side was just geeking out because I was like, hey, that
reminds me. Yeah. The few years that
I was not much, didn't hardly litigate at all, but there's a little bit
of time I did. I. Yeah, I did make that
argument a few times. And I was just like, you know, it was always cool
whenever we were able to get evidence suppressed.
>> Sarah (27:21):
Yeah. Yeah. so,
so it's revealed and it's a very short
and short, conversation
between them where it's essentially,
you should have asked me first. I
know. And then, and then it
takes this interesting turn, where,
(27:42):
Where Matt is trying
to tell Hector
like, he's better without the
mask. He's still. He doesn't need
the mask. And it's interesting because
they're both vigilantes. They're both
people who at the end of the day
try and go out of their way to do the right
(28:04):
thing. Simultaneously though,
they There was a clear distinction
of where Hector is.
Never has never not want to
embrace that side of him and never
viewed it as an evil side or a
vengeful side. That's what
(28:26):
Matt is dealing with right now.
I mean, it's more about, especially
in the wake of Foggy's death,
about how
that kind of justice
is vengeful. And, and he,
Matt hasn't just lost, Foggy,
he's lost a few other people too in his life.
(28:48):
So was just an
interesting moment of where
I, I, can appreciate in this episode
the subtleness of. You have this
big self contained episode of the
Trial of Hector, AKA White
Tiger. But the
subtlety that they
(29:10):
bring up the moral
and the, the conflict with our
main character, where
it's not overpowering this self contained
story, but it's also still
present as we move on to the next
chapter. Because at the end of the day we really are following
Matt Murdock on his story, and
(29:33):
journey this season. That's paralleled
with, with Fisk who again they
did an awesome transition shot
where we keep seeing the bruised
fist. and it's at the beginning of the
episode there's a close up, I believe
on Fisk and on his, on
his, banged up fist. And then
(29:55):
we transition into Matt's banged up
fist because he didn't kill two police
officers.
>> Will (30:03):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (30:04):
Which was my gripe of the
episode. Which.
>> Will (30:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same for me
too because I was like, wait a minute, you know, because we spent, you
know, last week when we talked about it, it, it, it seemed
that, that neither one of those guys are going
to walk out of the room and, and the way, in a way it
was presented, it was just like Sherry, come. You know, it was
like. Yeah, it was, it seemed like things
were, they were dead. But
(30:31):
nah, the officer, Officer Powell was,
was talking in the bathroom to, to Matt
and Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (30:39):
Oh, I think, I think Matt was talking more
now.
>> Will (30:42):
Yeah, yeah, he was trying. Well, we attempted to.
>> Sarah (30:45):
But yeah, Matt, it was more of a
conversation. I'm gonna come in here and
so that you can tell me and more importantly
explain to the viewers why I haven't.
Why you're not being arrested.
So, so it was very expositionary.
And then, and then Matt gets him on the stand and
(31:07):
even, continues to take some shots at him.
Oh yeah, but, but yeah,
like, like that was
that suspense. It's, it bothered
me potentially throughout
the entire episode. Just the, the
conveniency. I, I understand it.
(31:27):
yeah, but I, I mean,
if you're gonna have Matt really kick some butt, because
this is now two episodes. The very first two
episodes. I still don't really. I still. They
haven't really explained how Bullseye fell off.
Like Matt pushed Bullseye off
that. The ledge of a three,
(31:47):
four story building. He's fine.
And now. And now we have Officer Pal
notice how we don't see the friend at all.
But I, I'm sure he's alive. He's probably just in the
hospital.
>> Will (32:00):
He's probably. He's probably jacked up in the. Yeah, in the
hospital.
>> Sarah (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
So. So it. Now it's been a few
interactions where Matt comes off as a complete
badass. We assume he's just killed somebody and
he hasn't. but we're only explaining that
after the fact. And it's kind of like, okay guys, he
either need to really be clear, like
he's not killing them because,
(32:26):
because my. It does bother me,
a bit. But,
>> Will (32:30):
But yeah, yeah, it did feel very comic
booky there. But. But to that point as far as
with. With. Again with the examination that
Matt, had on Powell in the courtroom and, and
then, you know, fast forward a little bit to when they
were cherry and. And the
other guy were trying to get the informant, the CI
(32:50):
to to the courthouse. Yeah, Nikki. Nikki
Torres. And you know, I really did like that whole.
The whole sequence of the fake and.
And, and. And all that. And you know, and of course, you know,
again, it's. It's tv, so I knew that Nikki
was going to show up, but I like the way that they
executed it because, it was just. It was just a
(33:12):
very fun thing. And more important with that scene
too is just when. When Nikki,
was testifying in the courtroom
and seeing the. You know, again, to your point
about the visuals and the. The
how they shot the courtroom and. And
all the police officers there and
(33:32):
you know, and just the intimidation. And even when Powell
was testifying, you know, he, He.
He knew that he, you know, all the, you know, all those
folks, you know, they had their back. Especially, you know,
when you see the one officer with the, with the. You know, with
the punisher tattoo and everything
like that.
>> Sarah (33:49):
Right, right.
>> Will (33:50):
Yeah. I mean, it was just like. Yeah, it was.
>> Sarah (33:55):
It's interesting how it changes though,
because that, that half of the
room is still there, still intimidating,
but the moment it comes out that. That
Hector is white tiger.
Matt, very brilliantly as a lawyer,
pulls out all of Their
statements about what an ally
(34:17):
White Tiger is to kind of say
it doesn't make logical sense of why he would attack
some police officer.
>> Will (34:24):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (34:25):
Out of nowhere. Like, like, like
one plus one is not equaling two in this
scenario, if you really think about it. So, so,
and ah, they had reports, so it, it changed.
And, and you, and there was a subtlety,
subtleness in even that side of the
room of a change of like this
(34:45):
realization that
okay, maybe, maybe
we did get it wrong. Or.
Wow. Like, like they're, they're also
doing the math as well, the whole
Punisher thing. And
now, now I'm gonna like, break into
a little bit of, of maybe,
(35:06):
I'm of territory I'm
unfamiliar with because again, I'm not a comic book person. But
I have seen some things that
very subtly we were introduced
to another player in the
first episode. And it was
specifically, from what I understand
at, during the, the book
(35:28):
signing of Matt's girlfriend Amanda,
we were introduced to the character
Muse, who is
also the person we're seeing
make the murals around New York.
Right?
>> Will (35:43):
I believe so. I believe so, yeah. Yeah. Because I know
there's the punishment that triggered. Yeah, that's one of the ones that, was
we got in this episode. Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:51):
Yeah. So I don't know a lot
about this character, but
I, I think I, I don't
know per se if Fisk is the one who
ordered it, considering,
there is this ambiguous character who.
I'm still not quite sure whose side he is
(36:12):
on. but, but
like, it's an it to me, it
feels intentional that we've now
seen the Punisher
single or, the
Punisher, emblem.
>> Will (36:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (36:29):
Like on a mural. We've seen the tattoos
on the dirty cops. We've. And
now the assassinator, the person who
assassinated Hector was wearing
that symbol on, on a vest.
So I, I, I,
those things make me,
(36:49):
make me more keen to think it's
Muse. Now granted, there could always be a
lifeline, but in this episode we're also
presented with this idea that,
that Fisk, he,
he, he's not really the one who's wanting to
go and play with the rats. it's more, it's more
(37:09):
his wife.
>> Will (37:10):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:11):
Yeah. So maybe she
did it because she.
>> Will (37:16):
Said, yeah, she definitely wants, you know, she's not liking the
fact that he's going straight because she's, she has gotten
full head of power, you
know, with, with, without. With the
underworld things that, you know, that Kingpin
used to, used to do before he tried, he's trying to go
straight here, but you know, just
real quick on the, on the, on the sigils and stuff too
(37:39):
with the with the cops and, and you know, one of the
things too is Frank, you know, thinking about Frank
Castle and the motivations
about, you know, why he is the
Punisher versus, you know,
these people who, you know, who are operating under
color of law as far as having, you know, a police
shield and you know, co opting the, the
(38:01):
Punishers symbol, to the point that even
in the comics, you know, Frank actually changes the, the
Sigil because it had gotten abused by, by
these bad actors like that, like that we're seeing and that we're
seeing here in the, in the show. And you know, and
I do appreciate that, you know, Marvel
is, you know, the show has some, some,
(38:22):
some, some depth to it and I think that was the other thing that
you know, that with the abuse of authority
and you know, I think they were really
displaying that in this, in this trial as
well that you know, when Matt, you know, in
addition to, you know, outing Hector, but it was, you know, it
was a larger global sense of things that, that
he was trying to, to, you know, to show as
(38:44):
well.
>> Sarah (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes back to
that idea of like that
gray area of a ah, vigilante
versus someone trying to get revenge
or seeking vengeance
versus a hero. Yeah, like,
or even an anti hero. Like.
(39:07):
And, and I think that's why
especially bringing in the Punisher makes
all the sense in the world and, and should be present
in this because you have, you have
Matt the visual anti. You have, you have
the Punisher, the quote unquote anti hero. And then you have
Fisk who like in his
(39:27):
own right is, is also a three
dimensional character who's not
necessarily purely evil, but
who has gone about the
desire for power in his way and, and also
to protect people. He filled the hole.
Okay,
but, but yeah, I think you raise
(39:50):
a great point that they are,
they are though those shades
of the definition between,
between hero, vigilante, anti
hero are are being
diluted in, in this, in
this story with these characters.
>> Will (40:10):
Yeah yeah. And you know, it even like as I said
with the trial and we can move back all back. You know, we could talk a
little bit about Fisk and Vanessa, but also with summations
that. And their closing arguments whether worth Matt and
also, and even the da, you know, with. I
thought I was really, I really like the DA's closing as well.
Because, you know, he was, he was rebounding. Matt's like, you know, yeah,
Hector may be a good man, but, you know, even good people
(40:33):
to refute some of the testimonials, including a little
shout out to, you know, to Jefferson Morales, you know,
that the, you know, good people can still do bad things.
So, you know, this, this show, I'm really enjoying it
because it's just, it has, when you just sit back
and just really think about some of the themes that they're, they're addressing that
it's, it's, it's, I'm proud of Disney
(40:53):
plus.
>> Sarah (40:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as long as Disney plus has
an R rating, they're good. Yeah,
no, no, no, they've been good. I, I didn't
forget about Agatha all along. That was a
surprise. especially
the ending. But, but yeah, I, I
think my only thing that I really
have left to, to just point out,
(41:18):
before to move on to invincible, is, is
just the, the breakfast
conversation between Fisk and Vanessa
because. Could have
gone longer. I kind of wish it had gone
longer. But again, in the first
episode we have the beautiful scene between
(41:38):
Fisk and Matt in the diner. And this is
another just, just a war of
words and a, and a tennis,
match of, of conversation, of
experience. And that really fleshes out where
these characters are, why they're at
odds with each other and
the, the potential power moves at
(42:00):
play. and yet, and yet there's still,
there's still a clear
attraction and affection
occurring. They're not like,
she's, she's not being held prisoner
in any way. However,
she does, she, she rose to the occasion
(42:21):
while he was gone and she does
not like how he's come back and been like, oh,
well, thank you, but now we're going to do this. And it's like,
whoa, I was in control. I,
I, I was becoming my own.
And, and which, which makes sense.
That length of time apart and then
to have to take control
(42:44):
of that type of organization
like you, you either rise
or you fail. And she rose to the
occasion and she's,
and, and that affected her. Like, she's not
the same person who he
married and not the same person
(43:04):
who he, he left, essentially.
so, and he's trying to come to terms with
that, but also she's now facing the
reality Fisk ain't the same person either.
Now, I say that with like an
asterisk, okay, Because
I know, I know he's, I,
(43:27):
I, I keep using this word because it's the only one
that comes to mind. There's a subtleness happening
here where. Where we're getting a long burn. And
I'm not talking about a romantic long burn. They are
being very careful with how they present
Fisk and. And what we see
and what we're purposely not at the moment
(43:47):
seen. So it's.
It allows for an uneasiness,
and allows for when we actually
see. See, Fisk being
kingpin makes him more
terrifying. and. And. Or at least
that's what I think is happening here. So, did
you have any thoughts about Fisk and
(44:09):
Vanessa or anything else you want to mention before we head
into Invincible?
>> Will (44:14):
You know, I mean, really, I think that covers most
of it. I mean, one thing I know we didn't really talk about
last week with Fisk and Vanessa was, you know, in addition
to the things that you talked about with their relationship and
while he was. Huh?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But
just, you know, just the, You know, there. The other thing that they're
(44:34):
dealing with too, is, Vanessa's infidelity while Fisk
was, with.
>> Sarah (44:39):
With.
>> Will (44:40):
With the character, you know, when he's like, I knew Adam. And so,
so there's that aspect of the gulf
in their relationship as well, and, you know,
that you're trying to. To. To
reconcile in addition to all the other things that you
articulated about the, the power and Vanessa,
you know, keeping things moving while ever. When he was. When he
(45:00):
was, recovering from the, gunshot.
>> Sarah (45:02):
Yeah. All right, well, that brings
us to Invincible. We have two episodes
to cover. We're kind of gonna, cover
them together, as we
normally do. We have episode six. All I can
say is I'm sorry, where
a powerful new figure challenges
Mark's idea of what's right and what's wrong. And
(45:25):
Rey approaches Rex with a big life decision.
And episode seven, what have I Done?
Where Earth's greatest heroes join
forces to fight an unimaginable
threat. And I, I think
it's safe to say, Will, that with these two
episodes, like last week, we were talking
about how it's just like,
(45:49):
these weren't doing it
for. For numerous reasons. And then these
two episodes, it's like, okay, we're back in the
game. Here we
are. We're getting some payoffs.
And, I mean, it started off a little shaky
because essentially episode
six is really about Scott
(46:10):
Duvall, who is a
survivor of the Chicago incident.
But while he survived, his sister
and his niece did not. And
his journey, which. Which
leads him on this journey to becoming Powerplex and
a villain who's after, who wants
justice, by it,
(46:34):
wants justice for what occurred and, and fully
blames Invincible on it as,
as he, as he should in a
way. I kind of like that idea.
But, there's a, between both episodes
there's a lot of conversation about accountability,
I think.
>> Will (46:51):
Yes. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:52):
And, and, and that's what stuck out to
me. And like I can't.
Powerplex kept walking a
line of be, of being like, oh,
this is a really interesting character. And then, oh, you,
you've gone into the mustache twirling villain
archetype here and it, and, and
(47:14):
he throughout both episodes he, he kind of
walked that line. But, and I
think it's almost unpurposeful
because the,
to an extent, at some point it becomes
hypocrisy and it's just like,
okay, yes, that happened
(47:34):
and you, and you should get justice and
your sister and your niece shouldn't have died. And
yes, that, that is so sad and
everything. But then you make
choices
and before you know it, you've inadvertently
killed your wife and son,
(47:55):
which, So, so, and,
but you refuse. Like it's all because of
Invisible. Well, well, yeah, that was an
event, but your reaction
is your own choice to having that
occurred. So I, I, I like that
especially because we're dealing with
Mark. Mark's conflict this season
(48:17):
is all about choices and
his own reactions to things and
him, trying to figure out
what accountability is for him as a
person and as Invincible.
>> Will (48:32):
Yeah, yeah. I mean that, I think that's really
what stood out to me with both of these
episodes. It's just, you know, Mark coming to
grips and even stick on episode six right
now. you know, you know, throughout
the beginning of the episode and throughout
the episode, you know, he was concerned about, you know, the,
(48:52):
the memorial, you know, what happened in Chicago.
and and of course, you know, going there as
Mark, not as Invincible, but but also, you
know, getting back to Powerplex and, and Scott,
the, yeah, he did fall into
sometimes the mustache twirly villain role, but he,
he also reminded me of, you know,
(49:13):
I'll pull a Star Trek reference here of, of Khan,
where he was just so consumed by revenge
that, you know, come hell or high water,
I'm, you know, I don't care who gets hurt even, you
know, and, and also that I'm
going to get my revenge on, On Invincible to the
place where it, you know, like as you said, I mean, he,
(49:34):
in their big fight There at the end of the
episode, he,
you know, he ends up killing his. His family.
And. And then, of course, you know, and then whenever they do see
one another, when Mark, you know, whenever he is finally apprehended and
put in a prison, you know, he's still. That
revenge. I think that's what really just drove it home for me,
was that. That. That hatred and that revenge.
(49:57):
He could, you know, he can't even, like,
you know, it's just fueling him and so,
so, so, so much that, you know, maybe, you know, he's not
introspective. And it was a good contrast juxtaposition between
him and Mark because Mark is.
Is introspective, and he's. He's trying to come to
grips with, like you said, all the, you know, how much
(50:18):
responsibility is all of this due to
him, you know, how much is it, you know, to omn man, because,
you know, that. That initial fight that we saw at the end of the first season,
you know, was him, you know, was him and his dad,
you know, having their big showdown.
and so I. I really. I
think this, you know, episode six and seven
(50:39):
both really just drove this. The season
just kind of kicked into overdrive as far as, like,
wow, this is. This is really, really enjoyable. I'm
liking what they're doing as far as just really
using Mark using, you know, Powerplex as,
As a. As a foil to, you know, to really
show the two. The things that. How.
>> Sarah (50:59):
How.
>> Will (50:59):
How Mark could have easily had gone.
>> Sarah (51:02):
well, and it's also like,
I don't. I don't know if it's how he could have gone.
I think that it's more along the lines,
and it goes back to what we were just talking about
with Daredevil. It's like,
to your point, it went from
justice to vengeance.
>> Will (51:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (51:21):
And then how. Vengeance is
more of the evil side, and
suddenly it's like, no, you're just. You just want
revenge. And then. And then the question is,
once you get revenge, when. Where does it
end?
>> Will (51:37):
Right.
>> Sarah (51:37):
And. And. And I. I kind of like the
idea. Throughout this whole episode, he kept. He
kept trying to. To get.
And Mark kept, inadvertently avoiding
him.
>> Will (51:49):
Yeah, well, Mark. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (51:52):
Which. Which was good. I mean, at first, it really
was inadvertently, and then it was.
Was more like, yeah, you shouldn't be up against this
person because of your own human
issues with, like, what did happen,
during the Chicago incident.
But. But also why I say, I don't think
it's necessarily that he was a Good friend Foil.
(52:15):
For, for Mark, it's that
I think having him and having
episode six set up Powerplex
and kind of be a self contained
episode.
>> Will (52:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:29):
Because of Angstrom
and what the journey we've been on
with the evolution of that character
and vendetta he has had.
He's also someone who has been
consumed with taking out Invincible
because he, because of who
he became as a result of
(52:51):
something that Mark did, but also as a result
of his own choices. So it kind of
allowed us not to
have another Angstrom heavy
episode while at the same time
that. That
theme, to still be carried through and
then setting us up for the big
(53:13):
Angstrom moment. That is just like
the brilliance idea of like, well,
I'm gonna finally show the world how evil Invincible is
by unleashing all of the evil versions of
him on the planet. Yeah, yeah. Cool,
cool, cool.
And then we're gonna play a Billie Eilish song
(53:33):
and really dig deep into the field.
>> Will (53:36):
Yeah, for
sure, for sure. Yeah. yeah, I
think you're. Yeah, you're right. I mean maybe foil is not the right word
for, for Powerplex. I mean I think, you know, I think But
Powerplex, watching these episodes back to
back really, it,
it wasn't as you said, a very self contained episode, but it
(53:57):
did, it did do the
job of of setting up, having that self contained
episode. Did a good job of just sort of setting up
the, you know, whenever we do see Angstrom return
and in episode seven and, and,
and and unleash the plan that, you know,
the thing that Cecil's always been worried about like you
know, what, what would happen if
(54:20):
Mark just you know,
did go full out, you know, evil
Viltrumite. Like you're supposed to and,
and conquer the world and you know, and we see the,
we see the impact of that with all the other marks
from all the other various dimensions and, and things
that, and their stories. with, with some
of them I know there were. With those 18 of them I
(54:42):
believe that he brought in.
>> Sarah (54:44):
Yeah, there, there were, there were a lot of marks
and then there weren't as many marks
and they.
Some of the. Once the marks did get together
after all of the, the days on of
fighting and us losing people. R.I.P.
rex. right when I was starting to like
(55:04):
Rex. But Yeah for me is also like.
I don't like. There's always. It's
really hard. I, I want to believe people
are dead but fool me want
comics.
>> Will (55:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:18):
There's this weird line but
What Was I gonna say. I was gonna say something
about all the.
>> Will (55:26):
All the various marks.
>> Sarah (55:28):
Yeah, I'll. I like that moment.
right before they betray Angstrom, and
they were talking about the,
the, the deals that
they've made with Angstrom and, And the
third. The lines of, like, not all of us
killed Mom. I'm actually here
(55:48):
to grab mom and take her back to my
planet because she's dead. Like, all of
this stuff. And where. Where
it's not necessarily just that they're the
evil versions. Like, their stories
are different. Like, significant
things happen that caused
their outcome to not
(56:10):
be the same as Marx, resulting
in this very different version,
of Invincible, which.
Which is what a. A
plot involving multiple dimensions
should do. Like, that should be.
And I mean, it's taken us a few seasons to
(56:31):
get here, but I. I do
really appreciate the payoff. and.
And so. And on that note, can we just. Can we let
Angstrom be for a little bit and hang out with
his. His now owners, on
the. On the technician world?
Because. Because I also.
I feel like Angstrom at least
(56:54):
has been like, we. We got his
backstory. We got a payoff in season
two. Now we're getting another one in season
three. Okay. And. And hey, Mark.
Mark even killed him at one point or so we
thought. I think. I just.
I feel like the Angstrom card is getting a bit
overplayed. And. And
(57:15):
really we're just now waiting for the
Vulture mite of it all. Because that's the
true. That, That's season four, right?
>> Will (57:25):
Yeah. yeah. I mean, I know the finale dropped today,
so we'll obviously, we'll cover that. That next week, of
course, Conquest there.
>> Sarah (57:32):
But that's where they're headed. They're headed to the
Vulture Mite showdown and everything.
There's a reason why we didn't see,
Allan or Nolan in these
two episodes.
>> Will (57:46):
Yeah, yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, that,
that. That storyline. And obviously
haven't. I haven't watched the finale yet, so I don't know if they show up
in the finale or not. But, But, But yeah, and
I haven't read, you know, I haven't read the comics, so I don't, you know, so
I'm really going in blind with this. With this
story. But, But yeah, you're right. I think it definitely, you know, we will get that
(58:06):
ultimate showdown at some point, in. In season four
or, you know, five
or some point in the future, but.
>> Sarah (58:14):
In the future.
>> Will (58:15):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (58:19):
Yeah. No, I'm just. I'M just,
I, I talked a lot there. So
what, are, what are. Do you like. Is
there anything specifically about episode
seven you want to touch on?
>> Will (58:34):
you know, I think I do.
Other than the there's the fighting
Marks and of course, you know, and we, you know, with
Eve and her, her,
her role of just, you know, being. Helping Mark,
you know, be, be that supportive person
that he, that he needs in, in, in all of
(58:55):
this. and then of course, you know, she was, she was taken
off the board and then Mark,
you know, took himself out of the fight, you know, to be
beside her and you know,
and, and you know, Cecil having to come back
and you know. Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:13):
Can I just say something about the Eve of it all for
a moment? So why I'm
not. And you know me, I'm a classic
shipper. Okay. I love me a romantic storyline.
But we talked about this last week and even with
these episodes we have the awkward interaction
or at first awkward meeting of Amber's new
boyfriend and Mark. Like they
(59:35):
moved too fast.
I have whiplash. And so I
just. The fact that Eve ended up getting hurt
and then Mark refused, like, wanted to stay
by her bedside. I was like, I want, I want
to, I want to feel like
yay. But I don't. I just don't. There's,
there's. For some reason they did
(59:57):
not. They, they rushed and they
didn't do this, in a manner where I can really
get on board with these two for, for whatever
reason, which is weird because I, I
feel like I should have been on board in season one.
like this, this. But it never got
there. So, so that's kind of why I
(01:00:17):
didn't bring that up. But I will say I did like that,
that moment between Mark and Eve's
mom because it was, it was
very. It, it kind of came out of left field
of where she just,
you see, you see her. Just explain
like the irony of it all.
>> Will (01:00:37):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:00:39):
And, and the irony of
having. Of not only,
not only of someone with powers, but the
irony of a parent of someone. Someone. I'm like, I'm
sure Debbie feels the exact same
way with Mark and Oliver.
Like, like she, they
(01:00:59):
want them to be normal, but
their, their abilities are also what's keeping them
safe. It's, it's, it's a double edged
sword. And to come to terms. So I thought that
was such a good character
moment to have amidst a very action
heavy episode.
>> Will (01:01:19):
Yeah, yeah, I like that point.
Yeah, yeah. I Agree with you. I think that was
a good, moment that they added there. And you
know, speaking of like normal too, you know, thinking about Rex
and and Ray, trying to have normal lives
and, and you know, when we go thinking about going back
to episode, you know, 6 and 7
as far as just talking about
(01:01:42):
Ray wanted to give up the superhero life. And, and
we, and we finally do get Rex's backstory as far
as you know, the fact that his parents sold him off.
you know, because you, you know, to, that, to your point about the parents, you
know, Debbie and even Eve's mom, unders,
you know, under the motive. You know, they
are caring and they're concerned about their
kids. No, but, no, also they do know that their powers keep them
(01:02:04):
safe. But at the same time, yeah, there is the risk
that, you know, comes with it. Whereas, you
know, poor Rex, his parents just like basically
used him to, you know, they, they were in poverty and he just, they just
sold them all so they could just, you know, make a buck.
And, and, and the impact of that where
he just basically became a you know, you know, like,
(01:02:25):
like Homelander where he just grew up in. It, grew up in the seat
in the lab and, and you know, and it, you know,
and how it impact how it impacted
him and then finally like, you know, whenever we do,
like you said, having get
into the redemption story for Rex splode and then, you
know, and then we, and then we lose them and I, I,
(01:02:46):
you know, and I do think Rex is, Rex is
gone unfortunately. But but you know,
but it I, I like the way that even
with the supporting characters in this show,
they, they're, they're, they're really helping them to
become, you know, three dimensional people because I mean Rex
really was a two dimensional jerk when we first met him in season
one. And we've seen the growth over, over time
(01:03:08):
and then, you know, but, but to the point where we're just talking about,
you know, trying to have normal lives. You know, these, these,
these people can't, and I think just this, this show
does you know, it does explore like
the how, how you know, how
superheroes can't, have normal lives.
because even if they try to walk away, they'll
get pulled right back in because even Ray was trying to suit
(01:03:31):
up, when, when the threat came and,
and, and Rex was like, no, no, you know, you're
walking away. But you know, but she still felt the need to
suit up.
>> Sarah (01:03:41):
Yeah, yeah, very
Cool. Very cool. All right,
well, on that note, we,
>> Will (01:03:49):
One last little cool note too. With the episode that
at the end there, it was, you know, for Walking
Dead fans, even though. And. And
Supernatural fans and everybody else. So the
actor, the voice actor who was doing a voice
for Conquest, Jeffrey D.
Morgan. And,
and, ah, yeah. And then, of course, you know, Steven Yen does,
(01:04:11):
you know, Mark's voice. So just got a little reunion there of, Walking
Dead with, with, Negan and Stephen Yan's
character.
>> Sarah (01:04:18):
Well, yeah, the creator is. The show
is. Yeah, right.
>> Will (01:04:22):
Yeah, I know. It's Kirkman. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought it was just pretty cool, this
one. You know, Just want a little, little, Little
tidbit that I just thought was. Was really, was really cool
scene there there at the end of, episode seven.
>> Sarah (01:04:34):
Yeah. And I mean, I'm surprised you also didn't say in
Grey's Anatomy fans, I mean, Jeffy Dean M.
Morgan, AKA Denny.
>> Will (01:04:41):
Oh, yeah,
you got. So we got some for everybody.
>> Sarah (01:04:49):
You put Jeffrey Dean Morgan. You have a bunch of
different audiences. That's what we use them.
That's why they use them. And then they,
Oh, on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners
where they can find you?
>> Will (01:05:03):
Yes, you can find me at, Will and Polk, W
I L L M P O L K. Wherever you
get your socials.
>> Sarah (01:05:11):
And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont, sjbl
M O N T. Please follow our crew on Twitter
@Cena Nerd on, blue sky at Scene N Nerd.
Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at
scene, underscore n, underscore nerd and visit our
website www.scenanerdpod.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
(01:05:31):
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good
night. Geek out. You're welcome.
>> Will (01:05:53):
It.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.