April 11, 2025 • 63 mins
In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will dive into the latest developments in the world of television and film, starting with the exciting news that "The Last of Us" has been officially renewed for a third season. They discuss the implications of this announcement and reflect on the series' success. (0:00)
The hosts then shift gears to share their thoughts on the upcoming "Peacemaker" season two premiere, scheduled for August 21st. They highlight the anticipation surrounding the new season, including potential connections to the upcoming Superman film. (3:00)
Next, Sarah and Will tackle the ongoing discussions about the Netflix series "Adolescence," as rumors swirl about a possible second season. They weigh the merits and pitfalls of expanding a limited series, debating whether it could maintain its original impact or risk losing its essence. (5:00)
The conversation then turns to the penultimate episode of "Daredevil: Born Again," where the hosts dissect the intricate plot developments and character arcs, particularly focusing on Matt Murdock's struggles and the tension surrounding Foggy's storyline. They share contrasting opinions on the episode's pacing and execution, highlighting the show's strengths and weaknesses. (15:00)
Finally, Sarah and Will wrap up the episode by discussing the latest installments of "Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man," examining the evolving dynamics among Peter Parker, Norman Osborn, and the introduction of new threats. They praise the show's ability to weave complex narratives while maintaining its youthful charm. (37:35)
We invite you to connect with us! Follow us on X, formerly known as Twitter, @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Visit our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred listening platform!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Will (00:00):
Music
>> Sarah (00:09):
Greetings Nerds, This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah
Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk
How are you doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:14):
Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Thursday evening?
>> Sarah (00:17):
I'm, doing all right. I'm here.
>> Will (00:20):
Yeah, I'm here as well. Looking forward to talking some
Daredevil Born Again penultimate episode with you
tonight.
>> Sarah (00:27):
Yep, yep, we will be talking about that.
>> Will (00:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:30):
but first we have to go through
some of these headlines, which
include that the Last of Us has been
officially renewed for a third season.
I, I'm so shocked.
I, I, I, like, this is
(00:51):
one of the headlines that I just mock because
I'm like, why do I feel like that's already
been, like, happened
or why that's already, that seed has
been planted? Because I
felt like coming off of the first season, a lot of the
discussion was there's no way they can do the
second game in one season. And I
(01:13):
feel like we were told they're gonna stretch this
across four seasons in total.
>> Will (01:19):
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's, I remember
that, being, yeah, it was gonna be a four season thing,
but I guess, you know, it was one of those things too. But they never
officially like, approved the third season.
>> Sarah (01:30):
Right.
>> Will (01:30):
Even though, but, but at least we got it. You know, it's the
little thing that most series do
this these days anyway, with shows
that, that we know are going to be like,
are clear hits and so
we got the word.
>> Sarah (01:46):
Yeah, well, yes and no. I
mean, there's, there's been shows. Why do I feel like
there was a recent show that got renewed for
two seasons, like right away?
>> Will (01:58):
Yeah. Oh, yeah, actually, the one
we're going to talk about later tonight, also, Spider man, your
friendly neighborhood Spider man got renewed before for, seasons
two and three before, before it even aired. So it does
happen. And Star Trek. Yeah, Star Trek.
Strange New Worlds has done that also.
>> Sarah (02:14):
Yeah. And, and Daredevil got renewed for its second
season before it premiered.
>> Will (02:18):
Yep, yep, yep.
>> Sarah (02:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So, so why the
last of us waited so long? I don't know
exactly. Do they
remember the numbers that they did during the first season?
I think they should have picked up on this sooner,
but.
>> Will (02:35):
Exactly. But hey, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to
us starting talking about it next week. It's, it's here, it's
finally here to Sunday night.
>> Sarah (02:42):
It is, it will, few more days, a few
more hours. and then later in the
summer, we will finally resume our
peacemaker discussion with its
season two premiere on August
21st.
>> Will (02:58):
Yeah, yeah. HBO this weekend I guess
did their, I guess, second quarter sizzle
reel. And yeah, had a little, little teaser
there with Peacemaker. So we got our first
shots of of season two. So looking,
looking forward to that. And of course, I guess,
I want to say I might be making this up or
(03:19):
maybe I remember reading this somewhere some, some months back.
But there is, I want to say there was an element of the
upcoming Superman movie that is going to
have a role in, in the second season
of Peacemaker. So that's,
that's why. Yeah, and that's why they're releasing it.
>> Sarah (03:36):
Yeah, yeah. Didn't it didn't Soups
kind of show up at the end of Peacemaker One?
yeah, Justice League kind of.
>> Will (03:46):
It was the D.C. e. The
DCEU. Justice League. Yeah, yeah, they all
did. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (03:52):
Interesting. I, I,
I'm just gonna put this out here right now. If
anybody spoils the opening credit
sequence of Peacemaker Season 2,
plague on your house.
>> Will (04:06):
Okay, we riot.
>> Sarah (04:08):
I, that is the one thing that shall
not be spoiled until you turn on that
first episode. Okay, so, so I'm also
talking to James Gunn here. You better not let
it scene of that be
leaked into any of these trailers
or promotional stuff. No, no, because the
anticipation for Peacemaker Season 2
(04:30):
opening credit sequence. Come on.
>> Will (04:33):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
We cannot have that spoiled at all.
>> Sarah (04:39):
No, no, it's, it was too
classic the first time and we know it's going to be
something different, but man,
all right. And that leads
us to
more rumors about Brad, Pitt's
production company Plan B Entertainment is currently
talking with the creators of Adolescence about a
(05:01):
possible second season.
What are your thoughts on this, Will?
>> Will (05:06):
I really hope they do not do this. I
mean it, it, you know, it was a limited
series. It's a, a solid
story. the you know, the
presidents, the co, presidents of Plan B
did share that, when they were talking
with the director Philip
Bartini. and also, you know, Stephen Graham also was
(05:28):
the co, creator of the show. they
were looking to do something. A
quote from the co President Gardner said that they were
looking to widen the aperture, stay true to the,
to the DNA and, and not be repetitive
talking about season one. But
then she didn't reveal too, of course she didn't reveal
(05:49):
anything more about that. But
honestly, this reminds me a lot of some of the discussions we
had, last, last year, I guess last year about
like Shogun, because originally it was Going
to be a limited series. You know, it was only, you know, based on the one
book and because it was ah, critical
and an audience hit, the
Hulu FX decided to make
(06:12):
a second season. but honestly, even
if they were to make Adolescence like a, an
anthology or something, I, I,
to me, you hit a home run with this show.
I don't, I don't even, I don't, don't mess with
it. I, I, like, you know, I just really think they should
just stick with what's, stick with what they have and, and, and
(06:33):
not, not mess with a good thing. But you know, Netflix
will do what, what they're gonna do, so we'll see.
>> Sarah (06:39):
Yeah, I, I'm
torn. A, part of me agrees with you and a part of me is
like, no, they, they could, they could
totally do like
there's so many things you could change. Like you could have it
involved, be focused on, the female
perspective and have like
a girl do something. You could even change it
(07:02):
to America, like the setting, you
can, or, or a different part of Europe.
Like you could, you could
do things to change the
environment and change the circumstance.
I mean the act too, what happens,
can totally be different. but
(07:22):
they're gonna have to really be
crafty and trying to figure out
how exactly do you make it an anthology
without like rinse and
repeat. Yeah, like, like we
don't want, and we definitely don't
want to continue the current story like that,
(07:43):
that's ended. The purpose of that story has
ended. I don't want them to resume that
at all. I don't think that's needed.
But I think that,
they could tell there, there are
plenty of stories to tell in terms of like
the overall umbrella of
adolescence as it currently
(08:04):
stands in the world and
given the social media of it all
and other things, and other
cultural changes. So,
so I, I can, I can understand
from a business perspective, of course, about
why they would want to explore
(08:25):
that. and, and I
think that there are stories, but
like, this isn't something that needs to be
like. And in six months we need to start production on
season two. Hell no. No,
no. You, you're, you're literally have to go
back.
because, because I would, I would
(08:47):
love to more, more
time spent like another story
in this format and
exploring these ideas and it being so
raw. but they just have to
figure out what that angle would be. So. Yeah,
yeah, I, I, I,
(09:07):
if they can figure out the right story story,
then by all means, like do it.
But don't, don't just rinse and
repeat. Like, that's all I'm saying.
>> Will (09:18):
Yeah, I completely, completely agree with you. yeah,
you're right. I mean your counterpoints to mine
are definitely really, really
salient. because it, yeah, there are
even, even the manosphere and toxic masculinity. There's
things, the bullying that, you know, there's so many elements. And I
do like the fact that you did say that, you know, could
(09:38):
they tell this story from, from the
victim's perspective?
>> Sarah (09:42):
Because, you know, not even the
victim's perspective. I'm saying
females are mean. Females are violent
too. Like.
>> Will (09:52):
Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
>> Sarah (09:52):
Yeah, they get like. There's this lovely movie called
Mean Girls. Yeah. Put that under
adolescence. Okay.
>> Will (10:00):
Yeah, that's true. That is true.
>> Sarah (10:02):
Yeah. So
I, I think that
the, the thing about adolescence as a,
ah, show, they
be it. They tapped
into, they were able to find a way
(10:23):
to take a, a child
and put them in an adult
world and talk about things
where even there's moments when the child
is like questioning the adults and saying, are we allowed to
talk about this? But then again, that same child
committed a very adult like
act. and, and
(10:45):
also because of social media is exposed
to porn and, and sex and
all of this stuff. But no, the moment an adult talks
to you about it, it's like, whoa, whoa, I'm, I'm a kid
here. You can't be doing that. Like,
like those taboo subjects
like you have, they have to
figure out a way to to tell a
(11:08):
story and, and get in.
Like, it doesn't even have to be a murder. There could be, there
could be other crimes or heinous
actions. Of course.
>> Will (11:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:18):
But there, there.
I, I think I know that there are other stories
to tell. Now granted,
if it is, if they do do the switch up and
tell it from, from a girl
perspective, you gotta have a
girl creator and writer involved.
>> Will (11:38):
Yes.
>> Sarah (11:39):
I, that's the other thing you're. And, and,
and even race. Like, like if you switch
up the race and, and go into that
like these, these two older
white men, they can't be at the helm of that.
And I think that's another barrier that they
will have if they, if they try
(12:00):
to delve into those worlds.
>> Will (12:02):
Yeah, all, yeah, all great points,
all great points. But yeah, I mean, but you know, this
show, is, is, is definitely ah,
has hit the zeitgeist. I mean, I think it's
fourth all time now on on Netflix
and as far as views
and so. Yeah, yeah, I think all the things you
just shared, I mean, those are excellent points as
(12:25):
far as like, if they do decide to green light a second season
and like you said, go explore things. Race and gender.
you're, you're right. Or definitely we need to have the, you know, proper
representation in the writer's room to make sure that it's an authentic
story.
>> Sarah (12:37):
Yeah. Yeah. And
I, I have started the pit on
Max. And I, honestly,
it's weird. I don't know what episode I am at.
I, I, I know I'm probably
around episode five or six, I
think. I forget what
(12:59):
time I ended it. But, so, so
in a future episode, I will share my overall
thoughts once I finish the season.
>> Will (13:06):
Okay. Okay. That sounds, Yeah, I have been,
that's one of those ones I have been like, I've been
chewing on starting. So I might, I may, I, mean
add, that to, to the watch list.
>> Sarah (13:18):
Do you know a lot about it? Because I've had so many
scenes spoiled for me, so I do know, I.
>> Will (13:23):
Knew the, know the basic premise, but I haven't had anything. No
spoilers.
>> Sarah (13:27):
No spoilers. Okay. I, I will
forewarn you. I haven't gone into this episode and I
honestly don't know when it occurs, but I do know there's an
episode that features childbirth.
And people are like, yeah, we did not
need to see it. Did not, did not need to
see it. And, and I even warned my,
my brother and sister in law who are expecting, and I'm
(13:49):
like, if you ever do watch it, just be warned to skip
an episode that like, the moment somebody comes in pregnant,
just be like, no, we're skipping this episode. Okay,
okay. Because it just is a
traumatic. That's what everyone has said
watching that episode. Like, it's like,
oh, oh, no, no, no,
no. And, and a lot of
(14:11):
medical experts have also said that
from what I understand, out of all of the episodes, that
episode in particular is the least
realistic because of some of the things that
happen. Everything else they applaud and they're
like, this is the most realistic.
>> Will (14:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:29):
it's also.
See, I don't know what episode I'm at
because I watched it, but I
also was doing other stuff during it.
>> Will (14:41):
Fair enough. Fair enough.
>> Sarah (14:43):
Not. It's not an episode. It's not,
it's not something where I'm like, oh, I have to
watch everything. Especially because a lot of the stuff
I'm like, I Don't want to watch that. I don't. I don't want
to say that I'm not fast forwarding, but I'm
also, like, zoning in and out.
>> Will (15:00):
Yeah, you're not dialed in. Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:01):
Yeah. So I. I don't know
if I would recommend it or not. I. I'm still a
very much on the fence. but, yeah,
anyways. All right, that brings us up
to Daredevil, Born again, episode eight,
Isle of Joy. At his inaugural.
Inaugural Black and White Ball, Mayor Fisk
(15:22):
tightens his grip on New York City.
Parentheses and Vanessa.
so
I. I can. I have a problem with this
episode.
>> Will (15:35):
Okay. I do. I do.
>> Sarah (15:38):
And the name is Dex.
I just. I think that's
what ruined this episode for me, where
I. I liked a lot of the stuff that was going
on, but the prison break,
I, was like, I don't. I don't like this.
And then. And then the fact that it took him
(15:59):
so he. He, like, he broke out
of prison so easily. It was
scary. It was just like. It wasn't
scary. It was. It was
cringe. And then he just so
happens to get on the bus to leave and just
immediately knows where Fisk and Vanessa will
be. And like. Like, this is all
(16:20):
seemingly happening, like,
very close together, timeline wise.
I'm just. I just. That. That whole
thing took me out of it.
and. And I don't know.
The. The. The
show had me, and
(16:40):
it hasn't lost me. But
I will say I am m. Not as on board
as I was. Like, Sarah, say, episode two or three.
>> Will (16:49):
interesting.
>> Sarah (16:50):
Yeah, it's.
>> Will (16:51):
It's losing me because I had the exact
opposite feeling.
>> Sarah (16:56):
Well, that's good.
>> Will (16:57):
Yeah. I mean, this week it was.
Well, I think a couple of things. it definitely.
I was locked in with this episode because I think it
was. The writing for me was just so. I guess it kept
me guessing as far as, like, where things were going to
go. and. And also, I think
tonally, this. I could
(17:18):
definitely see the.
The. This was the new ver.
This is the version that. That after
they came in and scrapped the original, well,
almost a. Scrapped, I guess,
retooled the original stuff. these
two are. Are fresh episodes, whereas
episodes, two through
(17:40):
seven, are a, ah, m. Mix
mishmash of the original
stories that they were planning on telling.
And then the. The new creative
team spikes, it in there,
the reshoots and everything in it.
But for me, this episode was a nice
(18:00):
bookend. It was a. It was what, a penultimate Episode should do,
which is set. You know, we have. We've
had all these various threads throughout the season
come, to a head and, you know, and for
me, as someone who did not watch the original,
Netflix show, but I am familiar with
the storyline as far as, you know, with, you know, the
(18:22):
mats. You know, two biggest nemesis. As far as
Bullseye and Fisk. It.
I. I felt sufficiently like, paid off,
especially given that also episode one was
also done by the new creative team and we get the.
The follow up to the events that happen there with.
With Foggy and tying everything back to, you know,
(18:43):
who. You know, who actually did order to hit on
Foggy. So for me, all of
those things really worked really well in this episode
and. And for once. Whereas the other ones I like,
I liked. But I wasn't like, locked in,
you know, other. Other. Well, other than episode five
as far as the, intervening episodes,
this one was when I was really, like, locked in and really
(19:05):
enjoyed.
>> Sarah (19:12):
Sorry, I'm just. I'm just blanking on where. Where you
want to go from there.
>> Will (19:17):
I'll just give over my thoughts. No, I mean, I just.
>> Sarah (19:19):
I know. I. I know that. I just. I just don't.
>> Will (19:22):
Well, let's just jump in. Yeah, Well, I mean, I think we can just jump in
chronologically as far as, like, what happened.
>> Sarah (19:27):
Break it down chronologically.
>> Will (19:28):
Well, if you want to. We can do. Or we can. Or we can
do story beats. I don't. I mean, it's totally. I
am. You. You are totally in the driver's seat.
>> Sarah (19:36):
I hate when you do this to me.
Like, I had an idea of what I wanted to talk about,
and then I lost it, but I. I lost
it. Like, that's the thing. Like, that's. That's. That's
what's happening is like, your overall thought took
too long and I lost where I was gonna go,
(19:58):
and I'm just like. I have no idea
what to really, say
here. So, Yeah. Yeah,
I'm. I'm glad you liked it. and
I, just. And I. I probably
didn't like it.
Yeah, so the whole. The whole Foggy of it
(20:20):
all. Here's my problem. Like,
and you brought up threads come coming together.
Okay. Foggy's
absence has been huge in this
show, and. But his presence has been felt because
of, like, Matt and the suit of it
all. I am not being articulate tonight,
but we're just gonna go with it.
(20:42):
And so. So my
problem is it's not like we
spent this entire season like, who ordered the
hit on Foggy? Who ordered that?
No, that question. We've never talked about
that at all. Because the
first. The first scene of the first episode
(21:02):
happens. Foggy dies, and then it's a year
later. Like, and it feels like
he. He's moved on. Well, like.
But we know he hasn't. But yet at, no
point between then and
now, was it. Was he, like,
questioning Cherry or. We never
saw anything that they brought up in this episode
(21:24):
between him and Cherry. About, like, we did all that
research and we tried to figure it out, and we couldn't figure
it out, and then they missed something
and. And it just. It
felt weird to me that, like, all of a
sudden this is becoming a thing
and. And how they get
(21:45):
there, because how it took
them more than a year to get there,
that's a little like, I thought you guys would be
better at that, because even I knew Fisk
has been out of commission. Vanessa was in
charge, so.
But. But it just. It just felt
(22:06):
weird to me that,
like, we. We circled back around. I can
understand why, but
I just. It didn't feel to me like a, thread
coming together necessarily,
since it hadn't been a question question.
And. And maybe it's just execution, because
(22:27):
when we talk about Spider man,
arguably a similar thing happens, but I felt
like that. That, like, that
was a good surprise and, like,
revelation just because of how they
executed it, versus here,
where it just felt like, oh, now that we
killed Muse, we need to
(22:49):
resume this vendetta between
him and Fisk. And.
But. But also, be like, it
wasn't. It really wasn't Fisk who called that shot. It was
Vanessa. even though we have not been
questioning that for purposes of this season at
all.
>> Will (23:08):
M. Well, I. I will say that. I
mean, as far as the Foggy of it all, I mean,
so, yes, it has been a year, but I mean, but
throughout that year, I mean, Matt has.
I won't say, you know, we get. We
get the early. Earlier in the season. You know, we.
We have the. We have the trial.
(23:30):
you know, Karen shows up, one year
later. you know, we. We see. We see
moments. Yeah. I mean, we're. You know, was
the. You know, was like
the. I think there have been, like, moments of, like, this
maybe quite. You know, things being
dropped. as far
as, like, when I think. For example, when I think
(23:52):
about the guy who, When Matt was representing, the guy who
stole the, the. The candy, the pop candy
from the. From the bodega. I mean,
you know, there were questions about like, you know, justice
and, you.
>> Sarah (24:04):
Know, that's not the same thing,
though.
>> Will (24:07):
Well, no, but, no, but there was. There were, bro. There
were. I won't. But there were elements throughout the season
where Foggy's death did, like, show
up. So it's not like it just came out of left field again is my
point. I mean, there have been like, there, there have been like,
moments throughout the season where maybe not the. Whether
or not it was a hit that was ordered. I mean, that was the moment whenever
they went, you know, they were at the, you know, Cherry and
(24:30):
Josie when they went back at this, at the shop, when they started putting
things together as far as what happened that night. But,
you know, but there have been, but
to say that it hasn't been there not
been a part of the story at all is, I think it's a bit much.
>> Sarah (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
m. What else do you want to talk about?
I find it difficult because I, I,
yeah, I, I, you already know my thoughts
about this episode, so, so yeah. What do you want to
highlight?
>> Will (25:04):
Oh, I mean, well, okay, well, let's highlight the, the night of
the ball. I mean, I think that was, that's really the pivotal
moment, as far as,
well, before we go there, I mean, let's,
since we were talking about Fisk and, and Vanessa and
hit and stuff, I mean, what do you, I mean, I guess they
quickly dispense with Adam, you know, just, sort
(25:25):
of as we, as we see Matt and,
and, and, and Wilson like both
get back through their, I guess, truer natures,
and, and all it, you
know. You know, so we get that moment
with Vanessa and Fisk and, and Adam where he's like,
I got to show you a secret. And they go down and you know,
(25:47):
he, he, Vanessa, like
Pops, kills off Adam, but,
you know, just to sort of, again, drive things, drive
things forward. But, you know, there was
that, But I guess the other big highlight for
me with, with the episode is I
guess the, the ball
itself. and just sort of, I mean, once as you,
(26:10):
as you, as you started off, talking about Bullseye and his
escape, showing up there and I guess just how, I
mean, I guess the execution of, just basically how things sort
of went down with, with
the, with the dance and stuff, and, and the
assassination attempt.
>> Sarah (26:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Which
again, I mean, my
point being is that they are
deliberate to show you how many quote unquote,
task force members are armed and just
walking around this this ball
and how. It's a very secure thing.
Poindexter just walks in
(26:50):
undetected. I just. We spent
20 minutes in this ball, and it was
very clear to me. You saw all of the.
The, wealthy people, and then you're. You're
watching task force members, like, With.
With. Right. Like, guns. Sorry, I don't know
the exact type of guns, but,
like, they make it a
(27:13):
point. And then Poindexter walks right in.
It just. Things like that will take
me so out of an episode. I can't.
It just. It bothers me.
where you.
Yeah, like. Like, they. They made
it so clear that
(27:34):
Fisk, like, to the point where it
was almost like, are you using these guys to
even threaten the royal. The
people? Which, to an extent, he was. He
was leveraging that now.
But again, point.
Dexter just walks right in. So. So
that. That took me out.
(27:56):
And. And it was hard because I could see what they were
doing with, With the relationships, whether it be
Fisk and Vanessa
or, Heather and Matt,
which you planted a
seed for me last week about the
relationship with Heather and Matt, where
(28:17):
this week I felt it even
more, where I was just like, okay, I'm
starting to see what. What will is. Because,
like, one minute they're saying, I love you and
get in their freak on, and next minute she's complaining
because he's out all the time. And I'm like, wasn't
it, like, one night? Like. Like,
(28:38):
I don't. I don't. And. And it
just felt quick in terms of
the. The.
Not in terms of their relationship, in terms
of the conflict that
suddenly became. Because she goes
through this very traumatic experience with Muse
(28:58):
slash Daredevil, and then
she, at the end of the previous episode, says, I think
he said my name.
>> Will (29:05):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (29:06):
But then this episode, it's like, we're not
gonna address that. We're gonna focus on the fact that
she doesn't believe that Daredevil, like, saved
her. And Daredevil's just,
Like, I. I'm just thinking in my head, I was
like, can we explore that a bit more? Because
I. I would like to understand the
doctor's logic here.
>> Will (29:27):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (29:28):
Before I get invested.
So. So they're doing stuff with her
character in particular that is starting to
be very inconsistent and. And
rushed.
>> Will (29:39):
yeah, that was one thing too. As far as the. I
guess, with. With
their. Their. Their scene before with.
With the ball and. And, you know,
so to that, you know, I was thinking about our
conversation a little bit too, about, like, know, he
you know, the, the straight. The
strain in the relationship now because, you know, Matt's, you
(30:02):
know, getting closer and closer to. To being,
you know, going back to back you. He's back on the streets, being a
vigilante again. and the.
She's. And I guess to that point
about you. I'm glad you brought up the, the. The
Daredevil not saving her. And Yeah, I mean, he, you
know, he did.
Yeah, she, you know, he facilitated, you know, she, her
(30:25):
being able to get that gun and popping off. Popping, off
Muse. But I guess the bigger thing for me was just sort of
her. Her like, you
know, basically equating,
I guess the whole thing about the mask and you know, the bull, you
know, and, and the What did you
say? Oh gosh, I'm
blanking on the exact terms, but I mean, she was.
(30:48):
She was basically like lumping Matt, you know, all
the vigilantes. you know, she was basically siding with
Fiska's vision of like, why the vigilantes
are a bad thing and basically supporting, you know, supporting
Fiskus the efforts with the task force and stuff. And
Matt's like, well, I just. I just like saved your.
Saved your ass. And you're. Is this is how you treat us? And.
(31:08):
And of course he can't like say
that, you know, he's Daredevil at that moment because
then she will even treat him like
even more crazy than she already thinks
vigilantes are. So. Yeah, so yeah, you
know, it did try to create, you know, I guess
a tension
ratcheted up more in that m. Moment.
>> Sarah (31:31):
Yeah.
>> Will (31:32):
Yeah. Which I don't know if it felt. I don't know if it was like
manufactured tension. I guess it was dramatic tension and just sort of
like, okay, really like, I guess set things in
motion for. For later in the episode as far as, you
know, as far as like when we are at the ball. And I
will say when Matt was at the ball and he, you know, he
made the cardinal sin that. That people do
relationships is like, you know, whenever
(31:54):
he was like listening in all this conversation I did have, I
did laugh at that. Whenever, you know, whenever he was
like, you know, they were trying. But he
finally, you know, one, he got there late and they tried to like play it off
like, oh, I'm just trying to be all fashionably. And then
two, like whenever they were dancing and she was
like talking to him and then he would like his head and you
know, trying to hear what's going on and Stuff. And it's like, are you paying
(32:17):
attention to me? And it's like, oh, yes, you're paying attention to you. I'm paying attention to
you. I just thought that was. I mean, those, Those were the moments. I
think that when I said why I really enjoyed the
episode, it was just those, Those. Those true, like,
human moments that you don't always see in. In this
genre. Some from time to time that I thought was
what. What helped set this episode apart.
>> Sarah (32:38):
Yeah, I didn't interpret
those that way, but to each their
own. they just felt like. To go back to the
conversation you brought up initially between
them and that dramatic tension,
which did feel manufactured for me, and
just feel like come out of nowhere because she was planning on writing
a book about vigilantes and I thought she was on their
(33:01):
side. So maybe I misinterpreted that book
storyline, but it just,
it. They didn't spend enough time
making me understand her perspective.
So it didn't feel like it came out of left field that suddenly
she's anti vigilantes.
I think that was the flaw for me,
among a few other things that I've already
(33:23):
mentioned. but.
But yeah, and then at the end of it,
Poindexter, he kind of
gets his mark. But, Matt jumps in the way and.
And it's Matt on the floor bleeding,
to quote unquote, apparent death.
and Fisk, he saves
fixed life, which was teased at the beginning of the
(33:45):
episode with conversation,
between Max and Debt, Matt
and Dex in the police, in
the, the jail, the prison,
about. I'm trying
to find it. you know, in
another life, you might be defending me, because that's
(34:06):
what good men do. They defend their worst enemies. And he
saved a fixed life.
>> Will (34:16):
Well, I think with that yawn, I think it's time to move on to
starter man.
>> Sarah (34:23):
I mean, you. I'm. I'm so glad you
were engaged, this
episode. But, like, it just
continued. Things that I
found, I
found off putting in the previous episode, and I
was just like, I'm. This, is losing me. It's
losing me. And. And like,
(34:45):
like, also, I mean,
everyone has seen the set photos from season two.
>> Will (34:51):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, we all know. I mean, we know.
Even though he, like, jumped out there. I guess it's a theory
spiral for the finale before we move on. I mean, we. Yes,
we know. Yeah, I mean, we know he's not gonna die.
I mean, you know, jump. You know, he's taking a bullet
for you know, he took a bullet for this. But,
but yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's.
(35:12):
I guess it's really. At this point, it's just like, okay,
we've got the, you know, we've got
the task force showing up, doing
their thing, getting worse. you know,
we, we, we, you
know, we know Barenthal is going to show up again, so we
figured the Punisher is going to show up in the finale to, like, you know, maybe
take down the task force and stuff and basically
(35:34):
be, you know, I guess Matt
and maybe Poindexter will have one more showdown and,
you know, and, and. And also the task force
as well. So, you know, he's got, you know, he's. Matt's
definitely going to be in a weaker state, so he's, you know, definitely makes
sense for why Punisher is going to show up to help him
out.
>> Sarah (35:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Potentially all of that. I don't watch the previous.
I have no idea.
>> Will (36:02):
No, no, this is not from a preview. This is just me. Yeah,
no, this is just me talking.
>> Sarah (36:07):
Yeah. all right, that brings us
to the last three episodes of your friendly
neighborhood Spider Man. I'm gonna go
through the synopsis of each episode real quick.
Episode eight, Tangled Web. Norman gives
Spider man an ultimatum, causing Peter to do some
soul searching. Episode, nine,
Hero, or
(36:30):
did I mistype Menace?
Oh, that's hero of menace. Right. Spider man swings
into action as Lonnie looks to settle a score
and Norman visits an old friend. And episode 10,
if this be My Destiny, Peter's insurance ship
takes dart turn with the arrival of an unexpected
visitor. and so I'm just gonna
(36:51):
go to the.
The point that I brought up earlier during the
daredevil discussion. And,
that this the season finale,
talk about a dark turn with the internship thing.
So we, we
realize that. Or we find
(37:12):
out, as Norman reveals
to the interns, Project
Monolith, which is a device
that's a gateway to outer space.
>> Will (37:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:25):
Sorcerer supreme shows up. I
still had no idea. I was like, oh, okay, we're
seeing him again. And then you see the black Beast. And
then. And then you're. You're like, oh, we're doing
this again. And it wasn't until,
like, the. The portal really does open
and those two fallen. That. It.
(37:46):
That it. I figure out. Oh,
so you're telling me
Norman, like the
event we just watched, the events leading
up to how he becomes
Spider Man?
>> Will (38:01):
Yep.
>> Sarah (38:04):
It. It was done so well.
>> Will (38:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I was thinking. Or I was like, you know, Thinking like
Oroboros Ouroboros, thinking back to, like, Loki
Season 2.
>> Sarah (38:13):
Great. Great. And. And it's also
just like Norman, who
we. We find out, I think, in the previous
episode, has one of his scientists
working on a special project to
replicate Spider Man's blood that he
took from after the scorpion,
battle that Peter lost.
(38:35):
And. But that same blood and
replication is
inputted into a spider that then
bites. So Norman
basically created Spider Man.
>> Will (38:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:51):
I just,
It was. It's done so well
because it's. It's just a
great magic trick of like,
this event happens, and you just
take it for what it is at the beginning of the.
Of the season. And at no
(39:12):
point are you thinking like, oh,
this is gonna tie back around.
It's just not a thought. It's like that
happened. This is, We're not gonna play with time
here, but. And.
And you're also developing
this dynamic between.
Between Norman and Peter. Now, granted, any.
(39:35):
Anyone who knows Spider man knows Norman
can never be fully trusted. But you
also, like, you understand
why through
these course, these courts of events, like, he is
so willing, especially because of
that. The nod to
(39:55):
the Iron man and Spider man
relationship. We know from the MCU
that that is, paralleled at the
very beginning of them meeting in. In that
first episode. So it's just
I. I really applaud
them for, such a.
Such a good arc in that sense. I
(40:18):
mean, these last three
episodes
revved everything up. And then I think in the. The
last episode, they really had to be
like, okay, Monolith showing you
what the. What the game plan is. And now we're
gonna lead. Leave all of these loose
ends,
(40:40):
but. But not really loose ends. Like, they
are untied, but they're also like,
yeah, this is now, where
we're. Where this character could go moving
forward. As we see Nico with her medallion.
And, through the course of these episodes,
Lonnie. Lonnie,
(41:01):
becomes something else.
>> Will (41:07):
Starting to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was. I guess that was
the. Was that episode nine.
Eight or nine where he, like, he gets exposed to the
chemicals?
>> Sarah (41:17):
It's episode eight.
>> Will (41:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, because he,
you know, he is Tombstone. But of course, you know, whenever we. We.
We see like, the. The. The pink. The. The gray
fingertips, after he's exposed to.
To the. To the chemicals, which, you know,
ultimately Tombstone does, you know, hold
his whole body. You know, he looks like that.
But, you know, we see the super. The super strength and
(41:42):
everything. And I did, like, The. I did like the showdown,
with, With Peter and
two and Tombstone, whatever, whenever they were fighting the gang. And
also, you know, how. How. Basically how Tombstone
becomes the leader of the gang because, the. The original gang
leader, like, you know, he chickens out whenever. Whenever things
gets rough. And. And so that, you know, so it's
(42:02):
just to your point, about threads, and
being,
woven and everything. you know, we. As we
talked about earlier in the episode tonight, you know, we
do know that we'll have seasons two and three.
So, you know, we're seeing all the foundational things as far as
this Spider Man's rogues gallery,
being developed here when. When, you know, as
(42:25):
I guess in year one, of Peter having the problem
having his powers.
>> Sarah (42:29):
And it's also. It's not having a villain
for the sake of having a villain. I mean, with
Lonnie. I mean, you already brought
up the. The car, Well, not the
truck hijacking event. And
really it's not Spider man versus
Lonnie at all in that. It's. It
turns into Spider man and Lonnie
(42:52):
working together against sp. Scorpion because he
shows up. And. And in that
moment when Scorpion comes
up, Dre is just like. Or
Dom is like, I'm, out.
>> Will (43:05):
Yep.
>> Sarah (43:07):
And. And that causes
Lonnie to. To be like, no,
that I don't. They need someone
else. I will say
the one, One of my critiques about this
show, it's not a big
one, is I do feel like with
Lonnie, it. It was
(43:29):
a bit rushed for me where he went from
being like a. An
athlete, student and very
much like on the straight
and narrow to. Yes,
I understand He. He gave.
He gave up. he took the place of his
(43:49):
brother. I totally understand that. But
then after that, when he.
When he. The. The quickness
came from the loyalty he had with the other
members of the game, like, it just. It
felt. It felt a bit abrupt. and I felt very
much like Pearl, like, what are you doing? Yeah,
(44:10):
I don't understand.
>> Will (44:11):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they saved you from the Scorpion
gang, but. Yeah, but.
Yeah, I mean, but for him to falls, you're
right. But it was a very haste, hastily,
descent into, like, you know,
fall from grace for. For him, for sure. Yeah, I.
I would agree with that. One critique for me was just.
(44:32):
I felt like they. I don't know if it's
critique or. Or just
like. And, Maybe it
was. Maybe it's not a critique. It's just more like it was a
beat That I, that with Peter, all the
adults just like throwing too much,
like more maybe the
(44:53):
adults not being helpful to Peter because
especially, you know, he as as
we see him get, you know, try to
balance being Spider man and being a teenager and
working at the internship. I mean, poor Peter was like,
ah, pulled in a thousand different directions, you know, so
where, you know, it does cost, you know, it does
(45:13):
cause a strain on his friendships and
he's strained on himself. I mean when he just like has the, you know, has
the moment there with May and, and you know, May's just like you're
stronger than you think you are. And, and then of course when he like
goes to Norman, Norman gives him, you know, does the,
with great power.
>> Sarah (45:29):
You know, it's great respect.
>> Will (45:31):
Yep, exactly.
>> Sarah (45:33):
I, I, I hear what you're saying and I think you're right.
I think that, that it almost
by by having Peter
engage with so many adults and, and
them not really utilize May,
they, he comes off so much
older than a teenager in high
(45:55):
school.
>> Will (45:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (45:56):
And that's kind of the disconnect there
where like, and, and especially when you
bring in a character like Harry who, yes, it's
explained he has tutors and he doesn't go to high school
and all this stuff. Again though, you're kind of
like these characters between him,
Nico and Harry are supposed to be teenagers in
(46:16):
high school and, and even Lonnie.
And yet they, they seem
like they, they, they don't have those
same pressures and they seem like they're
in college. The way they go about
things, it just the, it's not
matching. And I, and I think why
(46:37):
you, you bring, or you saw it now
especially is because yes, that was a very good,
nice scene between Peter and May,
but I felt like that was the first scene we've
had all season and we really
should have had more. Now
that was a great reveal at the end of the
first episode about, and,
(47:00):
and I, I was thinking about this earlier. I was like,
man, that really is a good reveal. So we find
out at the end of the episode that or at the end of the
season that May goes and visits
Peter's dad in jail.
>> Will (47:14):
Yep.
>> Sarah (47:15):
And, and so
I, I was thinking about it earlier today
and I was like, wait a second. So
that's why when Nico and
Harry were over, Peter brings up that all
their moms are dead.
Because my first thought actually, I
remember I clocked that and
(47:38):
I was thinking about it at the time. I'm like, wow.
But, but Peter aren't You an orphan?
Orphan?
>> Will (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (47:45):
Like what? Yeah,
yeah, the dad is still alive and they, they
kind of subconsciously planted that
a few episodes ahead of time.
So, so it,
like things were there to
pick up on. but. But I thought that was
(48:06):
really interesting. and good. And good,
planning for. For that reveal at the
end. which just again, which, which is
something like.
But all of the other decisions like these.
Again, this. It's not a
reboot. It's. It's just a retelling. It's.
It's. You're taking. There's
(48:28):
something so familiar about this show
and, and yet it is definitely
telling its own version of events.
>> Will (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know we talked
about that I think last week where. Yeah, it is,
it is. You know, it's taking elements. I
mean even, you know, even like we, we did get a. At
the very end and it was a blink if you miss it. You know, we get the
watcher from what if you know, whenever
he and Stephen Strange have their you know, little
(48:58):
send all goodbye there and you know,
so I was like, yeah, you know, it is
reminding us that,
that we are still in the multiverse saga and we're
just seeing another part of the multiverse here. And.
Yeah, and. And this is, and this is a
multiverse story that actually works.
>> Sarah (49:20):
Right, right. Which I mean, granted
the the no Way Home was
also a Multiverse story. That worked too, I
guess. Spider man knows how to tell the multiverse.
>> Will (49:32):
They do. Yeah, they do.
>> Sarah (49:35):
Granted, they play in their own. They, they play in
their own sandbox too with the multiverse. I think that
says something. but they,
and there's. Into the spider verse.
>> Will (49:48):
Yeah. Eventually.
>> Sarah (49:49):
I don't know what it is about this property that
allows it to be so
adaptable to the multiverse. But.
But yeah, I think it's just because
of how from how many different
versions and store and the
story has been told
that there is something about it
(50:12):
that they continue to find ways to
reinvent reimagine
and it doesn't feel stale.
>> Will (50:19):
Exactly. Exactly.
>> Sarah (50:20):
Now granted, Sony has released a trash
load of projects that don't feature Spider
man, but that's, that's just
because one plus one doesn't equal
two automatically.
>> Will (50:33):
Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, but yeah, but Sony,
you know, and ah, Sony has done a good
job with Spidey, in every iteration that they've had
him.
>> Sarah (50:43):
Yeah. Yeah. and,
and we even, they even. And I'm not
familiar with this character, but, but We.
We Circle back to even Daredevil.
He returns in this episode and we
see that another intern, Jean,
is finesse. And, she has been
(51:03):
spying on Norman. And it looks like next season
she'll be spying on Harry, too.
So like, like,
again, there are things that happened
earlier in the season that. And I
think also because I don't
remember the exact release order of these episodes,
(51:24):
I know they were in batches very similar to how
we have broken it up. And I
think that's why a lot of the
connective tissue feels
stronger because you're not going week to week
and. And the arcs feel much more
complete because like, you are
(51:45):
watching them in a full arc.
and you like. Yes,
the previous arc ended with After
Scorpion versus Spider man. And.
And the first two episodes of the last
three feature very much like Harry or
Peter trying to deal with
(52:06):
losing in battle and. And. And
regaining strength and trying to figure out,
well, like the doubting that
occurs of that and. And also kind
of some ptsd. but he gets. He gets
his stuff together, granted.
>> Will (52:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:25):
I mean, you brought it up before the whole respect
line. I was just like, they're going
there. No, they're not. Thank God.
>> Will (52:35):
I was like, yeah, because as soon as the c. As soon as
Norman started going there, I was just like, oh. and then he was
like, with respect. And I was just like,
okay. No,
did a twist on it. And it's completely,
you know, Norman read the room. You gotta.
You know. But. But it really. It goes to like, again, to
(52:55):
show the selfishness of Mormon. And you know, he's just using Peter
as it means to an end. and, you know,
so serious.
Yeah. So was that.
>> Sarah (53:05):
And then, yeah, like his conversation with Doc
Ock.
>> Will (53:09):
Oh, yeah, I was about to go there. Yeah, that's exactly what I was about
to. About to segue to was his, ah, conversation
with Doc Ock and and their rival.
Their history and rivalry and stuff.
And Yeah, I mean, it's just
everything about Norman is just like. Just, you know, it's
as we. As we know, we will eventually
be, you know, become the Goblin and. And I like the way
(53:32):
that they're. You know, even
from. And to your point about how earlier
episodes planted the seed, you know, we. We
saw the. So about it. You know, we saw the.
The selfishness of Norman and where, you know, and what angle is he.
What's this? What's the angle here for why he has such a
fascination with Peter after he sees him? They're
in a Stairwell. and. And we get that
(53:54):
payoff, you know, with, him,
like. Yeah, with the spider. And. And
of course, you know, back. You know, he does end up
creating Spider man, so.
>> Sarah (54:04):
Right, right. Even though he was trying to
create something for himself.
>> Will (54:09):
Like, for himself, though. Exactly. It wasn't. Yeah.
>> Sarah (54:11):
It's the ego of Norman that they did such a
good job with because he.
He is very much like
Tony. Very much.
And. And he. He's a businessman. He's got
all this money and power, and he just wants
more. Well, then you start
seeing, like, your rival become a
(54:33):
superhero.
>> Will (54:34):
Yep.
>> Sarah (54:35):
Well, I gotta. I don't have that.
And. And I love that line in the final
episode where when. When Doctor Strange
arrives and he says, you guys with your powers.
Powers floating around, like, you're better than us. I
mean, the conversation with Doc Ock
even gets at that to a point. Like.
(54:56):
Like, Norman can't have
anyone appear, to
be superior to him.
>> Will (55:04):
Nope, not at all.
>> Sarah (55:05):
And. And so, like,
he's able to minimize anyone
who's a threat. Threat in that regard.
And. And yet he doesn't have
superpowers. And so he feels inferior
to anyone who does. And that
is. That is an angle arguably
on. On Norman
(55:27):
that has. Has been there, but I feel
like for the first time, really fleshed
out, at least for me. And it
really feels like. Okay, you're
building a strong
justification for a vendetta
against Peter in particular.
>> Will (55:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:47):
which. Which I think that
this show would not work
if they. If the execution
between this relationship between
Norman and. And Peter
was. Was not done as well as it has
been done.
>> Will (56:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:08):
it is a. It is the backbone of the show,
which is arguably surprising because in the past
there's been so much more focused on
Harry and Peter. But.
But. Which is sad
because I feel like by. By
establishing such. The relationship
between Norman and. And
(56:30):
Peter, like, how
that unravels
allows there to be like, just
naturally that vendetta
in that. That antagonism
between Harry and Peter. Like, it's just.
>> Will (56:47):
Yeah, because I, like, I think back. Yeah. Because one of the.
One of the earlier episodes in this block that we
watched, you know, they're. They're whenever,
Harry, you know, whenever. Nor like,
basically kicked Harry out of the room, he was. Wanted
to have that conversation. And. And so,
Yeah, so that. That's a great example. I'm glad you brought
(57:08):
that up because, you know, that. That. That made me think of that example
of. Of that and, you know, again, planting the seed
for why things go south between Harry
and, and Peter. at least how they're going to, how they're
going to do it in this iteration of Spider Man. especially
when you can think about like when, you know, it was Harry who
got Peter the, the traditional, well
known suit. because the the suit that
(57:31):
Norman, did. They settled on got destroyed by
the, the fight in the fight with the scorpion. and then of course, you know,
using the Go get him tiger, taking that from Mary J.
To, you know, to, to Harry.
>> Sarah (57:42):
so yeah, that, that went a bit
far. I
was like, that's weird.
>> Will (57:49):
That was weird. Yeah, I like that just doesn't.
It doesn't, doesn't. It doesn't feel right.
Yeah. It's coming from him. Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:57):
Some things are, aren't meant for that. I
mean, I mean, and, and maybe.
>> Will (58:02):
If it were Nico, I would have been okay. If it were Nico.
Yeah. It has nothing to do with.
>> Sarah (58:07):
Yeah, yeah, I, I know exactly with what you're
gonna say because I feel the same way. I'm like, it's not
because she's female, however, like, we
equate that line so so much with Mary
Jane that it's very hard
not to like,
it's very hard not to be like,
whoa, talking about moving
(58:30):
fast. Okay.
but yeah, I, I'm very
much glad that we, we
watched this season. and also that
again.
And this bodes well for the next Disney
plus show that we'll get into later this month with Andor
(58:51):
Season 2, given how they're structuring their
episode release. You can do
the three episodes two
episodes at a time, but if you're
gonna do it like,
it should make sense with how they were written.
>> Will (59:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:08):
Like this, that's what this show proves to me
above all else. I mean, I feel like
earlier when we were. This year, when we're talking
Invincible, they do some,
some combining of
episodes released. Of course, there was the
infamous Daredevil a few weeks ago that had
episodes five and six, but those did
(59:30):
not. Those felt like scheduling.
Not, not for purposes of the story they're
trying to tell. Like there's a,
there's a reason why we're releasing them in this
manner because of the arcs and
because of the overall story.
And then I foresee that happening with Andor
season two as well. But, it's.
(59:52):
It's when. It's when it's because of scheduling
that. That causes it to become a detriment
as opposed to, to a, an attribute of
a show.
>> Will (01:00:02):
Yeah, agreed. Agreed.
>> Sarah (01:00:05):
All right. Well, on that note, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:00:10):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk W I L L M P O.
>> Sarah (01:00:15):
L K and you can find me there too at SJ Belmont
S J B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on
X formerly known as Twitter. And I said
that backwards but forgive me in another life.
please follow us on
Twitter AKA X. How do
we used to say it?
>> Will (01:00:34):
X formerly known as Twitter.
>> Sarah (01:00:36):
X formerly known as Twitter. The first time
I'm so tired for some reason. Follow us
there at see the nerd at Blue sky
at Scene N Nerd. Friend us on Facebook. Follow us on
Instagram and threads at scene underscore n
underscore nerd and Visit our website www.scree
a nerdpodcast.com but most importantly, rate,
(01:00:57):
follow and comment on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.
Music
>> Sarah (00:09):
Greetings Nerds, This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah
Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk
How are you doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:14):
Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this Thursday evening?
>> Sarah (00:17):
I'm, doing all right. I'm here.
>> Will (00:20):
Yeah, I'm here as well. Looking forward to talking some
Daredevil Born Again penultimate episode with you
tonight.
>> Sarah (00:27):
Yep, yep, we will be talking about that.
>> Will (00:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:30):
but first we have to go through
some of these headlines, which
include that the Last of Us has been
officially renewed for a third season.
I, I'm so shocked.
I, I, I, like, this is
(00:51):
one of the headlines that I just mock because
I'm like, why do I feel like that's already
been, like, happened
or why that's already, that seed has
been planted? Because I
felt like coming off of the first season, a lot of the
discussion was there's no way they can do the
second game in one season. And I
(01:13):
feel like we were told they're gonna stretch this
across four seasons in total.
>> Will (01:19):
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's, I remember
that, being, yeah, it was gonna be a four season thing,
but I guess, you know, it was one of those things too. But they never
officially like, approved the third season.
>> Sarah (01:30):
Right.
>> Will (01:30):
Even though, but, but at least we got it. You know, it's the
little thing that most series do
this these days anyway, with shows
that, that we know are going to be like,
are clear hits and so
we got the word.
>> Sarah (01:46):
Yeah, well, yes and no. I
mean, there's, there's been shows. Why do I feel like
there was a recent show that got renewed for
two seasons, like right away?
>> Will (01:58):
Yeah. Oh, yeah, actually, the one
we're going to talk about later tonight, also, Spider man, your
friendly neighborhood Spider man got renewed before for, seasons
two and three before, before it even aired. So it does
happen. And Star Trek. Yeah, Star Trek.
Strange New Worlds has done that also.
>> Sarah (02:14):
Yeah. And, and Daredevil got renewed for its second
season before it premiered.
>> Will (02:18):
Yep, yep, yep.
>> Sarah (02:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So, so why the
last of us waited so long? I don't know
exactly. Do they
remember the numbers that they did during the first season?
I think they should have picked up on this sooner,
but.
>> Will (02:35):
Exactly. But hey, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to
us starting talking about it next week. It's, it's here, it's
finally here to Sunday night.
>> Sarah (02:42):
It is, it will, few more days, a few
more hours. and then later in the
summer, we will finally resume our
peacemaker discussion with its
season two premiere on August
21st.
>> Will (02:58):
Yeah, yeah. HBO this weekend I guess
did their, I guess, second quarter sizzle
reel. And yeah, had a little, little teaser
there with Peacemaker. So we got our first
shots of of season two. So looking,
looking forward to that. And of course, I guess,
I want to say I might be making this up or
(03:19):
maybe I remember reading this somewhere some, some months back.
But there is, I want to say there was an element of the
upcoming Superman movie that is going to
have a role in, in the second season
of Peacemaker. So that's,
that's why. Yeah, and that's why they're releasing it.
>> Sarah (03:36):
Yeah, yeah. Didn't it didn't Soups
kind of show up at the end of Peacemaker One?
yeah, Justice League kind of.
>> Will (03:46):
It was the D.C. e. The
DCEU. Justice League. Yeah, yeah, they all
did. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (03:52):
Interesting. I, I,
I'm just gonna put this out here right now. If
anybody spoils the opening credit
sequence of Peacemaker Season 2,
plague on your house.
>> Will (04:06):
Okay, we riot.
>> Sarah (04:08):
I, that is the one thing that shall
not be spoiled until you turn on that
first episode. Okay, so, so I'm also
talking to James Gunn here. You better not let
it scene of that be
leaked into any of these trailers
or promotional stuff. No, no, because the
anticipation for Peacemaker Season 2
(04:30):
opening credit sequence. Come on.
>> Will (04:33):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
We cannot have that spoiled at all.
>> Sarah (04:39):
No, no, it's, it was too
classic the first time and we know it's going to be
something different, but man,
all right. And that leads
us to
more rumors about Brad, Pitt's
production company Plan B Entertainment is currently
talking with the creators of Adolescence about a
(05:01):
possible second season.
What are your thoughts on this, Will?
>> Will (05:06):
I really hope they do not do this. I
mean it, it, you know, it was a limited
series. It's a, a solid
story. the you know, the
presidents, the co, presidents of Plan B
did share that, when they were talking
with the director Philip
Bartini. and also, you know, Stephen Graham also was
(05:28):
the co, creator of the show. they
were looking to do something. A
quote from the co President Gardner said that they were
looking to widen the aperture, stay true to the,
to the DNA and, and not be repetitive
talking about season one. But
then she didn't reveal too, of course she didn't reveal
(05:49):
anything more about that. But
honestly, this reminds me a lot of some of the discussions we
had, last, last year, I guess last year about
like Shogun, because originally it was Going
to be a limited series. You know, it was only, you know, based on the one
book and because it was ah, critical
and an audience hit, the
Hulu FX decided to make
(06:12):
a second season. but honestly, even
if they were to make Adolescence like a, an
anthology or something, I, I,
to me, you hit a home run with this show.
I don't, I don't even, I don't, don't mess with
it. I, I, like, you know, I just really think they should
just stick with what's, stick with what they have and, and, and
(06:33):
not, not mess with a good thing. But you know, Netflix
will do what, what they're gonna do, so we'll see.
>> Sarah (06:39):
Yeah, I, I'm
torn. A, part of me agrees with you and a part of me is
like, no, they, they could, they could
totally do like
there's so many things you could change. Like you could have it
involved, be focused on, the female
perspective and have like
a girl do something. You could even change it
(07:02):
to America, like the setting, you
can, or, or a different part of Europe.
Like you could, you could
do things to change the
environment and change the circumstance.
I mean the act too, what happens,
can totally be different. but
(07:22):
they're gonna have to really be
crafty and trying to figure out
how exactly do you make it an anthology
without like rinse and
repeat. Yeah, like, like we
don't want, and we definitely don't
want to continue the current story like that,
(07:43):
that's ended. The purpose of that story has
ended. I don't want them to resume that
at all. I don't think that's needed.
But I think that,
they could tell there, there are
plenty of stories to tell in terms of like
the overall umbrella of
adolescence as it currently
(08:04):
stands in the world and
given the social media of it all
and other things, and other
cultural changes. So,
so I, I can, I can understand
from a business perspective, of course, about
why they would want to explore
(08:25):
that. and, and I
think that there are stories, but
like, this isn't something that needs to be
like. And in six months we need to start production on
season two. Hell no. No,
no. You, you're, you're literally have to go
back.
because, because I would, I would
(08:47):
love to more, more
time spent like another story
in this format and
exploring these ideas and it being so
raw. but they just have to
figure out what that angle would be. So. Yeah,
yeah, I, I, I,
(09:07):
if they can figure out the right story story,
then by all means, like do it.
But don't, don't just rinse and
repeat. Like, that's all I'm saying.
>> Will (09:18):
Yeah, I completely, completely agree with you. yeah,
you're right. I mean your counterpoints to mine
are definitely really, really
salient. because it, yeah, there are
even, even the manosphere and toxic masculinity. There's
things, the bullying that, you know, there's so many elements. And I
do like the fact that you did say that, you know, could
(09:38):
they tell this story from, from the
victim's perspective?
>> Sarah (09:42):
Because, you know, not even the
victim's perspective. I'm saying
females are mean. Females are violent
too. Like.
>> Will (09:52):
Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
>> Sarah (09:52):
Yeah, they get like. There's this lovely movie called
Mean Girls. Yeah. Put that under
adolescence. Okay.
>> Will (10:00):
Yeah, that's true. That is true.
>> Sarah (10:02):
Yeah. So
I, I think that
the, the thing about adolescence as a,
ah, show, they
be it. They tapped
into, they were able to find a way
(10:23):
to take a, a child
and put them in an adult
world and talk about things
where even there's moments when the child
is like questioning the adults and saying, are we allowed to
talk about this? But then again, that same child
committed a very adult like
act. and, and
(10:45):
also because of social media is exposed
to porn and, and sex and
all of this stuff. But no, the moment an adult talks
to you about it, it's like, whoa, whoa, I'm, I'm a kid
here. You can't be doing that. Like,
like those taboo subjects
like you have, they have to
figure out a way to to tell a
(11:08):
story and, and get in.
Like, it doesn't even have to be a murder. There could be, there
could be other crimes or heinous
actions. Of course.
>> Will (11:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:18):
But there, there.
I, I think I know that there are other stories
to tell. Now granted,
if it is, if they do do the switch up and
tell it from, from a girl
perspective, you gotta have a
girl creator and writer involved.
>> Will (11:38):
Yes.
>> Sarah (11:39):
I, that's the other thing you're. And, and,
and even race. Like, like if you switch
up the race and, and go into that
like these, these two older
white men, they can't be at the helm of that.
And I think that's another barrier that they
will have if they, if they try
(12:00):
to delve into those worlds.
>> Will (12:02):
Yeah, all, yeah, all great points,
all great points. But yeah, I mean, but you know, this
show, is, is, is definitely ah,
has hit the zeitgeist. I mean, I think it's
fourth all time now on on Netflix
and as far as views
and so. Yeah, yeah, I think all the things you
just shared, I mean, those are excellent points as
(12:25):
far as like, if they do decide to green light a second season
and like you said, go explore things. Race and gender.
you're, you're right. Or definitely we need to have the, you know, proper
representation in the writer's room to make sure that it's an authentic
story.
>> Sarah (12:37):
Yeah. Yeah. And
I, I have started the pit on
Max. And I, honestly,
it's weird. I don't know what episode I am at.
I, I, I know I'm probably
around episode five or six, I
think. I forget what
(12:59):
time I ended it. But, so, so
in a future episode, I will share my overall
thoughts once I finish the season.
>> Will (13:06):
Okay. Okay. That sounds, Yeah, I have been,
that's one of those ones I have been like, I've been
chewing on starting. So I might, I may, I, mean
add, that to, to the watch list.
>> Sarah (13:18):
Do you know a lot about it? Because I've had so many
scenes spoiled for me, so I do know, I.
>> Will (13:23):
Knew the, know the basic premise, but I haven't had anything. No
spoilers.
>> Sarah (13:27):
No spoilers. Okay. I, I will
forewarn you. I haven't gone into this episode and I
honestly don't know when it occurs, but I do know there's an
episode that features childbirth.
And people are like, yeah, we did not
need to see it. Did not, did not need to
see it. And, and I even warned my,
my brother and sister in law who are expecting, and I'm
(13:49):
like, if you ever do watch it, just be warned to skip
an episode that like, the moment somebody comes in pregnant,
just be like, no, we're skipping this episode. Okay,
okay. Because it just is a
traumatic. That's what everyone has said
watching that episode. Like, it's like,
oh, oh, no, no, no,
no. And, and a lot of
(14:11):
medical experts have also said that
from what I understand, out of all of the episodes, that
episode in particular is the least
realistic because of some of the things that
happen. Everything else they applaud and they're
like, this is the most realistic.
>> Will (14:28):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:29):
it's also.
See, I don't know what episode I'm at
because I watched it, but I
also was doing other stuff during it.
>> Will (14:41):
Fair enough. Fair enough.
>> Sarah (14:43):
Not. It's not an episode. It's not,
it's not something where I'm like, oh, I have to
watch everything. Especially because a lot of the stuff
I'm like, I Don't want to watch that. I don't. I don't want
to say that I'm not fast forwarding, but I'm
also, like, zoning in and out.
>> Will (15:00):
Yeah, you're not dialed in. Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:01):
Yeah. So I. I don't know
if I would recommend it or not. I. I'm still a
very much on the fence. but, yeah,
anyways. All right, that brings us up
to Daredevil, Born again, episode eight,
Isle of Joy. At his inaugural.
Inaugural Black and White Ball, Mayor Fisk
(15:22):
tightens his grip on New York City.
Parentheses and Vanessa.
so
I. I can. I have a problem with this
episode.
>> Will (15:35):
Okay. I do. I do.
>> Sarah (15:38):
And the name is Dex.
I just. I think that's
what ruined this episode for me, where
I. I liked a lot of the stuff that was going
on, but the prison break,
I, was like, I don't. I don't like this.
And then. And then the fact that it took him
(15:59):
so he. He, like, he broke out
of prison so easily. It was
scary. It was just like. It wasn't
scary. It was. It was
cringe. And then he just so
happens to get on the bus to leave and just
immediately knows where Fisk and Vanessa will
be. And like. Like, this is all
(16:20):
seemingly happening, like,
very close together, timeline wise.
I'm just. I just. That. That whole
thing took me out of it.
and. And I don't know.
The. The. The
show had me, and
(16:40):
it hasn't lost me. But
I will say I am m. Not as on board
as I was. Like, Sarah, say, episode two or three.
>> Will (16:49):
interesting.
>> Sarah (16:50):
Yeah, it's.
>> Will (16:51):
It's losing me because I had the exact
opposite feeling.
>> Sarah (16:56):
Well, that's good.
>> Will (16:57):
Yeah. I mean, this week it was.
Well, I think a couple of things. it definitely.
I was locked in with this episode because I think it
was. The writing for me was just so. I guess it kept
me guessing as far as, like, where things were going to
go. and. And also, I think
tonally, this. I could
(17:18):
definitely see the.
The. This was the new ver.
This is the version that. That after
they came in and scrapped the original, well,
almost a. Scrapped, I guess,
retooled the original stuff. these
two are. Are fresh episodes, whereas
episodes, two through
(17:40):
seven, are a, ah, m. Mix
mishmash of the original
stories that they were planning on telling.
And then the. The new creative
team spikes, it in there,
the reshoots and everything in it.
But for me, this episode was a nice
(18:00):
bookend. It was a. It was what, a penultimate Episode should do,
which is set. You know, we have. We've
had all these various threads throughout the season
come, to a head and, you know, and for
me, as someone who did not watch the original,
Netflix show, but I am familiar with
the storyline as far as, you know, with, you know, the
(18:22):
mats. You know, two biggest nemesis. As far as
Bullseye and Fisk. It.
I. I felt sufficiently like, paid off,
especially given that also episode one was
also done by the new creative team and we get the.
The follow up to the events that happen there with.
With Foggy and tying everything back to, you know,
(18:43):
who. You know, who actually did order to hit on
Foggy. So for me, all of
those things really worked really well in this episode
and. And for once. Whereas the other ones I like,
I liked. But I wasn't like, locked in,
you know, other. Other. Well, other than episode five
as far as the, intervening episodes,
this one was when I was really, like, locked in and really
(19:05):
enjoyed.
>> Sarah (19:12):
Sorry, I'm just. I'm just blanking on where. Where you
want to go from there.
>> Will (19:17):
I'll just give over my thoughts. No, I mean, I just.
>> Sarah (19:19):
I know. I. I know that. I just. I just don't.
>> Will (19:22):
Well, let's just jump in. Yeah, Well, I mean, I think we can just jump in
chronologically as far as, like, what happened.
>> Sarah (19:27):
Break it down chronologically.
>> Will (19:28):
Well, if you want to. We can do. Or we can. Or we can
do story beats. I don't. I mean, it's totally. I
am. You. You are totally in the driver's seat.
>> Sarah (19:36):
I hate when you do this to me.
Like, I had an idea of what I wanted to talk about,
and then I lost it, but I. I lost
it. Like, that's the thing. Like, that's. That's. That's
what's happening is like, your overall thought took
too long and I lost where I was gonna go,
(19:58):
and I'm just like. I have no idea
what to really, say
here. So, Yeah. Yeah,
I'm. I'm glad you liked it. and
I, just. And I. I probably
didn't like it.
Yeah, so the whole. The whole Foggy of it
(20:20):
all. Here's my problem. Like,
and you brought up threads come coming together.
Okay. Foggy's
absence has been huge in this
show, and. But his presence has been felt because
of, like, Matt and the suit of it
all. I am not being articulate tonight,
but we're just gonna go with it.
(20:42):
And so. So my
problem is it's not like we
spent this entire season like, who ordered the
hit on Foggy? Who ordered that?
No, that question. We've never talked about
that at all. Because the
first. The first scene of the first episode
(21:02):
happens. Foggy dies, and then it's a year
later. Like, and it feels like
he. He's moved on. Well, like.
But we know he hasn't. But yet at, no
point between then and
now, was it. Was he, like,
questioning Cherry or. We never
saw anything that they brought up in this episode
(21:24):
between him and Cherry. About, like, we did all that
research and we tried to figure it out, and we couldn't figure
it out, and then they missed something
and. And it just. It
felt weird to me that, like, all of a
sudden this is becoming a thing
and. And how they get
(21:45):
there, because how it took
them more than a year to get there,
that's a little like, I thought you guys would be
better at that, because even I knew Fisk
has been out of commission. Vanessa was in
charge, so.
But. But it just. It just felt
(22:06):
weird to me that,
like, we. We circled back around. I can
understand why, but
I just. It didn't feel to me like a, thread
coming together necessarily,
since it hadn't been a question question.
And. And maybe it's just execution, because
(22:27):
when we talk about Spider man,
arguably a similar thing happens, but I felt
like that. That, like, that
was a good surprise and, like,
revelation just because of how they
executed it, versus here,
where it just felt like, oh, now that we
killed Muse, we need to
(22:49):
resume this vendetta between
him and Fisk. And.
But. But also, be like, it
wasn't. It really wasn't Fisk who called that shot. It was
Vanessa. even though we have not been
questioning that for purposes of this season at
all.
>> Will (23:08):
M. Well, I. I will say that. I
mean, as far as the Foggy of it all, I mean,
so, yes, it has been a year, but I mean, but
throughout that year, I mean, Matt has.
I won't say, you know, we get. We
get the early. Earlier in the season. You know, we.
We have the. We have the trial.
(23:30):
you know, Karen shows up, one year
later. you know, we. We see. We see
moments. Yeah. I mean, we're. You know, was
the. You know, was like
the. I think there have been, like, moments of, like, this
maybe quite. You know, things being
dropped. as far
as, like, when I think. For example, when I think
(23:52):
about the guy who, When Matt was representing, the guy who
stole the, the. The candy, the pop candy
from the. From the bodega. I mean,
you know, there were questions about like, you know, justice
and, you.
>> Sarah (24:04):
Know, that's not the same thing,
though.
>> Will (24:07):
Well, no, but, no, but there was. There were, bro. There
were. I won't. But there were elements throughout the season
where Foggy's death did, like, show
up. So it's not like it just came out of left field again is my
point. I mean, there have been like, there, there have been like,
moments throughout the season where maybe not the. Whether
or not it was a hit that was ordered. I mean, that was the moment whenever
they went, you know, they were at the, you know, Cherry and
(24:30):
Josie when they went back at this, at the shop, when they started putting
things together as far as what happened that night. But,
you know, but there have been, but
to say that it hasn't been there not
been a part of the story at all is, I think it's a bit much.
>> Sarah (24:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
m. What else do you want to talk about?
I find it difficult because I, I,
yeah, I, I, you already know my thoughts
about this episode, so, so yeah. What do you want to
highlight?
>> Will (25:04):
Oh, I mean, well, okay, well, let's highlight the, the night of
the ball. I mean, I think that was, that's really the pivotal
moment, as far as,
well, before we go there, I mean, let's,
since we were talking about Fisk and, and Vanessa and
hit and stuff, I mean, what do you, I mean, I guess they
quickly dispense with Adam, you know, just, sort
(25:25):
of as we, as we see Matt and,
and, and, and Wilson like both
get back through their, I guess, truer natures,
and, and all it, you
know. You know, so we get that moment
with Vanessa and Fisk and, and Adam where he's like,
I got to show you a secret. And they go down and you know,
(25:47):
he, he, Vanessa, like
Pops, kills off Adam, but,
you know, just to sort of, again, drive things, drive
things forward. But, you know, there was
that, But I guess the other big highlight for
me with, with the episode is I
guess the, the ball
itself. and just sort of, I mean, once as you,
(26:10):
as you, as you started off, talking about Bullseye and his
escape, showing up there and I guess just how, I
mean, I guess the execution of, just basically how things sort
of went down with, with
the, with the dance and stuff, and, and the
assassination attempt.
>> Sarah (26:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Which
again, I mean, my
point being is that they are
deliberate to show you how many quote unquote,
task force members are armed and just
walking around this this ball
and how. It's a very secure thing.
Poindexter just walks in
(26:50):
undetected. I just. We spent
20 minutes in this ball, and it was
very clear to me. You saw all of the.
The, wealthy people, and then you're. You're
watching task force members, like, With.
With. Right. Like, guns. Sorry, I don't know
the exact type of guns, but,
like, they make it a
(27:13):
point. And then Poindexter walks right in.
It just. Things like that will take
me so out of an episode. I can't.
It just. It bothers me.
where you.
Yeah, like. Like, they. They made
it so clear that
(27:34):
Fisk, like, to the point where it
was almost like, are you using these guys to
even threaten the royal. The
people? Which, to an extent, he was. He
was leveraging that now.
But again, point.
Dexter just walks right in. So. So
that. That took me out.
(27:56):
And. And it was hard because I could see what they were
doing with, With the relationships, whether it be
Fisk and Vanessa
or, Heather and Matt,
which you planted a
seed for me last week about the
relationship with Heather and Matt, where
(28:17):
this week I felt it even
more, where I was just like, okay, I'm
starting to see what. What will is. Because,
like, one minute they're saying, I love you and
get in their freak on, and next minute she's complaining
because he's out all the time. And I'm like, wasn't
it, like, one night? Like. Like,
(28:38):
I don't. I don't. And. And it
just felt quick in terms of
the. The.
Not in terms of their relationship, in terms
of the conflict that
suddenly became. Because she goes
through this very traumatic experience with Muse
(28:58):
slash Daredevil, and then
she, at the end of the previous episode, says, I think
he said my name.
>> Will (29:05):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (29:06):
But then this episode, it's like, we're not
gonna address that. We're gonna focus on the fact that
she doesn't believe that Daredevil, like, saved
her. And Daredevil's just,
Like, I. I'm just thinking in my head, I was
like, can we explore that a bit more? Because
I. I would like to understand the
doctor's logic here.
>> Will (29:27):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (29:28):
Before I get invested.
So. So they're doing stuff with her
character in particular that is starting to
be very inconsistent and. And
rushed.
>> Will (29:39):
yeah, that was one thing too. As far as the. I
guess, with. With
their. Their. Their scene before with.
With the ball and. And, you know,
so to that, you know, I was thinking about our
conversation a little bit too, about, like, know, he
you know, the, the straight. The
strain in the relationship now because, you know, Matt's, you
(30:02):
know, getting closer and closer to. To being,
you know, going back to back you. He's back on the streets, being a
vigilante again. and the.
She's. And I guess to that point
about you. I'm glad you brought up the, the. The
Daredevil not saving her. And Yeah, I mean, he, you
know, he did.
Yeah, she, you know, he facilitated, you know, she, her
(30:25):
being able to get that gun and popping off. Popping, off
Muse. But I guess the bigger thing for me was just sort of
her. Her like, you
know, basically equating,
I guess the whole thing about the mask and you know, the bull, you
know, and, and the What did you
say? Oh gosh, I'm
blanking on the exact terms, but I mean, she was.
(30:48):
She was basically like lumping Matt, you know, all
the vigilantes. you know, she was basically siding with
Fiska's vision of like, why the vigilantes
are a bad thing and basically supporting, you know, supporting
Fiskus the efforts with the task force and stuff. And
Matt's like, well, I just. I just like saved your.
Saved your ass. And you're. Is this is how you treat us? And.
(31:08):
And of course he can't like say
that, you know, he's Daredevil at that moment because
then she will even treat him like
even more crazy than she already thinks
vigilantes are. So. Yeah, so yeah, you
know, it did try to create, you know, I guess
a tension
ratcheted up more in that m. Moment.
>> Sarah (31:31):
Yeah.
>> Will (31:32):
Yeah. Which I don't know if it felt. I don't know if it was like
manufactured tension. I guess it was dramatic tension and just sort of
like, okay, really like, I guess set things in
motion for. For later in the episode as far as, you
know, as far as like when we are at the ball. And I
will say when Matt was at the ball and he, you know, he
made the cardinal sin that. That people do
relationships is like, you know, whenever
(31:54):
he was like listening in all this conversation I did have, I
did laugh at that. Whenever, you know, whenever he was
like, you know, they were trying. But he
finally, you know, one, he got there late and they tried to like play it off
like, oh, I'm just trying to be all fashionably. And then
two, like whenever they were dancing and she was
like talking to him and then he would like his head and you
know, trying to hear what's going on and Stuff. And it's like, are you paying
(32:17):
attention to me? And it's like, oh, yes, you're paying attention to you. I'm paying attention to
you. I just thought that was. I mean, those, Those were the moments. I
think that when I said why I really enjoyed the
episode, it was just those, Those. Those true, like,
human moments that you don't always see in. In this
genre. Some from time to time that I thought was
what. What helped set this episode apart.
>> Sarah (32:38):
Yeah, I didn't interpret
those that way, but to each their
own. they just felt like. To go back to the
conversation you brought up initially between
them and that dramatic tension,
which did feel manufactured for me, and
just feel like come out of nowhere because she was planning on writing
a book about vigilantes and I thought she was on their
(33:01):
side. So maybe I misinterpreted that book
storyline, but it just,
it. They didn't spend enough time
making me understand her perspective.
So it didn't feel like it came out of left field that suddenly
she's anti vigilantes.
I think that was the flaw for me,
among a few other things that I've already
(33:23):
mentioned. but.
But yeah, and then at the end of it,
Poindexter, he kind of
gets his mark. But, Matt jumps in the way and.
And it's Matt on the floor bleeding,
to quote unquote, apparent death.
and Fisk, he saves
fixed life, which was teased at the beginning of the
(33:45):
episode with conversation,
between Max and Debt, Matt
and Dex in the police, in
the, the jail, the prison,
about. I'm trying
to find it. you know, in
another life, you might be defending me, because that's
(34:06):
what good men do. They defend their worst enemies. And he
saved a fixed life.
>> Will (34:16):
Well, I think with that yawn, I think it's time to move on to
starter man.
>> Sarah (34:23):
I mean, you. I'm. I'm so glad you
were engaged, this
episode. But, like, it just
continued. Things that I
found, I
found off putting in the previous episode, and I
was just like, I'm. This, is losing me. It's
losing me. And. And like,
(34:45):
like, also, I mean,
everyone has seen the set photos from season two.
>> Will (34:51):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, we all know. I mean, we know.
Even though he, like, jumped out there. I guess it's a theory
spiral for the finale before we move on. I mean, we. Yes,
we know. Yeah, I mean, we know he's not gonna die.
I mean, you know, jump. You know, he's taking a bullet
for you know, he took a bullet for this. But,
but yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's.
(35:12):
I guess it's really. At this point, it's just like, okay,
we've got the, you know, we've got
the task force showing up, doing
their thing, getting worse. you know,
we, we, we, you
know, we know Barenthal is going to show up again, so we
figured the Punisher is going to show up in the finale to, like, you know, maybe
take down the task force and stuff and basically
(35:34):
be, you know, I guess Matt
and maybe Poindexter will have one more showdown and,
you know, and, and. And also the task force
as well. So, you know, he's got, you know, he's. Matt's
definitely going to be in a weaker state, so he's, you know, definitely makes
sense for why Punisher is going to show up to help him
out.
>> Sarah (35:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Potentially all of that. I don't watch the previous.
I have no idea.
>> Will (36:02):
No, no, this is not from a preview. This is just me. Yeah,
no, this is just me talking.
>> Sarah (36:07):
Yeah. all right, that brings us
to the last three episodes of your friendly
neighborhood Spider Man. I'm gonna go
through the synopsis of each episode real quick.
Episode eight, Tangled Web. Norman gives
Spider man an ultimatum, causing Peter to do some
soul searching. Episode, nine,
Hero, or
(36:30):
did I mistype Menace?
Oh, that's hero of menace. Right. Spider man swings
into action as Lonnie looks to settle a score
and Norman visits an old friend. And episode 10,
if this be My Destiny, Peter's insurance ship
takes dart turn with the arrival of an unexpected
visitor. and so I'm just gonna
(36:51):
go to the.
The point that I brought up earlier during the
daredevil discussion. And,
that this the season finale,
talk about a dark turn with the internship thing.
So we, we
realize that. Or we find
(37:12):
out, as Norman reveals
to the interns, Project
Monolith, which is a device
that's a gateway to outer space.
>> Will (37:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:25):
Sorcerer supreme shows up. I
still had no idea. I was like, oh, okay, we're
seeing him again. And then you see the black Beast. And
then. And then you're. You're like, oh, we're doing
this again. And it wasn't until,
like, the. The portal really does open
and those two fallen. That. It.
(37:46):
That it. I figure out. Oh,
so you're telling me
Norman, like the
event we just watched, the events leading
up to how he becomes
Spider Man?
>> Will (38:01):
Yep.
>> Sarah (38:04):
It. It was done so well.
>> Will (38:06):
Yeah, Yeah, I was thinking. Or I was like, you know, Thinking like
Oroboros Ouroboros, thinking back to, like, Loki
Season 2.
>> Sarah (38:13):
Great. Great. And. And it's also
just like Norman, who
we. We find out, I think, in the previous
episode, has one of his scientists
working on a special project to
replicate Spider Man's blood that he
took from after the scorpion,
battle that Peter lost.
(38:35):
And. But that same blood and
replication is
inputted into a spider that then
bites. So Norman
basically created Spider Man.
>> Will (38:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:51):
I just,
It was. It's done so well
because it's. It's just a
great magic trick of like,
this event happens, and you just
take it for what it is at the beginning of the.
Of the season. And at no
(39:12):
point are you thinking like, oh,
this is gonna tie back around.
It's just not a thought. It's like that
happened. This is, We're not gonna play with time
here, but. And.
And you're also developing
this dynamic between.
Between Norman and Peter. Now, granted, any.
(39:35):
Anyone who knows Spider man knows Norman
can never be fully trusted. But you
also, like, you understand
why through
these course, these courts of events, like, he is
so willing, especially because of
that. The nod to
(39:55):
the Iron man and Spider man
relationship. We know from the MCU
that that is, paralleled at the
very beginning of them meeting in. In that
first episode. So it's just
I. I really applaud
them for, such a.
Such a good arc in that sense. I
(40:18):
mean, these last three
episodes
revved everything up. And then I think in the. The
last episode, they really had to be
like, okay, Monolith showing you
what the. What the game plan is. And now we're
gonna lead. Leave all of these loose
ends,
(40:40):
but. But not really loose ends. Like, they
are untied, but they're also like,
yeah, this is now, where
we're. Where this character could go moving
forward. As we see Nico with her medallion.
And, through the course of these episodes,
Lonnie. Lonnie,
(41:01):
becomes something else.
>> Will (41:07):
Starting to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was. I guess that was
the. Was that episode nine.
Eight or nine where he, like, he gets exposed to the
chemicals?
>> Sarah (41:17):
It's episode eight.
>> Will (41:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, because he,
you know, he is Tombstone. But of course, you know, whenever we. We.
We see like, the. The. The pink. The. The gray
fingertips, after he's exposed to.
To the. To the chemicals, which, you know,
ultimately Tombstone does, you know, hold
his whole body. You know, he looks like that.
But, you know, we see the super. The super strength and
(41:42):
everything. And I did, like, The. I did like the showdown,
with, With Peter and
two and Tombstone, whatever, whenever they were fighting the gang. And
also, you know, how. How. Basically how Tombstone
becomes the leader of the gang because, the. The original gang
leader, like, you know, he chickens out whenever. Whenever things
gets rough. And. And so that, you know, so it's
(42:02):
just to your point, about threads, and
being,
woven and everything. you know, we. As we
talked about earlier in the episode tonight, you know, we
do know that we'll have seasons two and three.
So, you know, we're seeing all the foundational things as far as
this Spider Man's rogues gallery,
being developed here when. When, you know, as
(42:25):
I guess in year one, of Peter having the problem
having his powers.
>> Sarah (42:29):
And it's also. It's not having a villain
for the sake of having a villain. I mean, with
Lonnie. I mean, you already brought
up the. The car, Well, not the
truck hijacking event. And
really it's not Spider man versus
Lonnie at all in that. It's. It
turns into Spider man and Lonnie
(42:52):
working together against sp. Scorpion because he
shows up. And. And in that
moment when Scorpion comes
up, Dre is just like. Or
Dom is like, I'm, out.
>> Will (43:05):
Yep.
>> Sarah (43:07):
And. And that causes
Lonnie to. To be like, no,
that I don't. They need someone
else. I will say
the one, One of my critiques about this
show, it's not a big
one, is I do feel like with
Lonnie, it. It was
(43:29):
a bit rushed for me where he went from
being like a. An
athlete, student and very
much like on the straight
and narrow to. Yes,
I understand He. He gave.
He gave up. he took the place of his
(43:49):
brother. I totally understand that. But
then after that, when he.
When he. The. The quickness
came from the loyalty he had with the other
members of the game, like, it just. It
felt. It felt a bit abrupt. and I felt very
much like Pearl, like, what are you doing? Yeah,
(44:10):
I don't understand.
>> Will (44:11):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, they saved you from the Scorpion
gang, but. Yeah, but.
Yeah, I mean, but for him to falls, you're
right. But it was a very haste, hastily,
descent into, like, you know,
fall from grace for. For him, for sure. Yeah, I.
I would agree with that. One critique for me was just.
(44:32):
I felt like they. I don't know if it's
critique or. Or just
like. And, Maybe it
was. Maybe it's not a critique. It's just more like it was a
beat That I, that with Peter, all the
adults just like throwing too much,
like more maybe the
(44:53):
adults not being helpful to Peter because
especially, you know, he as as
we see him get, you know, try to
balance being Spider man and being a teenager and
working at the internship. I mean, poor Peter was like,
ah, pulled in a thousand different directions, you know, so
where, you know, it does cost, you know, it does
(45:13):
cause a strain on his friendships and
he's strained on himself. I mean when he just like has the, you know, has
the moment there with May and, and you know, May's just like you're
stronger than you think you are. And, and then of course when he like
goes to Norman, Norman gives him, you know, does the,
with great power.
>> Sarah (45:29):
You know, it's great respect.
>> Will (45:31):
Yep, exactly.
>> Sarah (45:33):
I, I, I hear what you're saying and I think you're right.
I think that, that it almost
by by having Peter
engage with so many adults and, and
them not really utilize May,
they, he comes off so much
older than a teenager in high
(45:55):
school.
>> Will (45:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (45:56):
And that's kind of the disconnect there
where like, and, and especially when you
bring in a character like Harry who, yes, it's
explained he has tutors and he doesn't go to high school
and all this stuff. Again though, you're kind of
like these characters between him,
Nico and Harry are supposed to be teenagers in
(46:16):
high school and, and even Lonnie.
And yet they, they seem
like they, they, they don't have those
same pressures and they seem like they're
in college. The way they go about
things, it just the, it's not
matching. And I, and I think why
(46:37):
you, you bring, or you saw it now
especially is because yes, that was a very good,
nice scene between Peter and May,
but I felt like that was the first scene we've
had all season and we really
should have had more. Now
that was a great reveal at the end of the
first episode about, and,
(47:00):
and I, I was thinking about this earlier. I was like,
man, that really is a good reveal. So we find
out at the end of the episode that or at the end of the
season that May goes and visits
Peter's dad in jail.
>> Will (47:14):
Yep.
>> Sarah (47:15):
And, and so
I, I was thinking about it earlier today
and I was like, wait a second. So
that's why when Nico and
Harry were over, Peter brings up that all
their moms are dead.
Because my first thought actually, I
remember I clocked that and
(47:38):
I was thinking about it at the time. I'm like, wow.
But, but Peter aren't You an orphan?
Orphan?
>> Will (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (47:45):
Like what? Yeah,
yeah, the dad is still alive and they, they
kind of subconsciously planted that
a few episodes ahead of time.
So, so it,
like things were there to
pick up on. but. But I thought that was
(48:06):
really interesting. and good. And good,
planning for. For that reveal at the
end. which just again, which, which is
something like.
But all of the other decisions like these.
Again, this. It's not a
reboot. It's. It's just a retelling. It's.
It's. You're taking. There's
(48:28):
something so familiar about this show
and, and yet it is definitely
telling its own version of events.
>> Will (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know we talked
about that I think last week where. Yeah, it is,
it is. You know, it's taking elements. I
mean even, you know, even like we, we did get a. At
the very end and it was a blink if you miss it. You know, we get the
watcher from what if you know, whenever
he and Stephen Strange have their you know, little
(48:58):
send all goodbye there and you know,
so I was like, yeah, you know, it is
reminding us that,
that we are still in the multiverse saga and we're
just seeing another part of the multiverse here. And.
Yeah, and. And this is, and this is a
multiverse story that actually works.
>> Sarah (49:20):
Right, right. Which I mean, granted
the the no Way Home was
also a Multiverse story. That worked too, I
guess. Spider man knows how to tell the multiverse.
>> Will (49:32):
They do. Yeah, they do.
>> Sarah (49:35):
Granted, they play in their own. They, they play in
their own sandbox too with the multiverse. I think that
says something. but they,
and there's. Into the spider verse.
>> Will (49:48):
Yeah. Eventually.
>> Sarah (49:49):
I don't know what it is about this property that
allows it to be so
adaptable to the multiverse. But.
But yeah, I think it's just because
of how from how many different
versions and store and the
story has been told
that there is something about it
(50:12):
that they continue to find ways to
reinvent reimagine
and it doesn't feel stale.
>> Will (50:19):
Exactly. Exactly.
>> Sarah (50:20):
Now granted, Sony has released a trash
load of projects that don't feature Spider
man, but that's, that's just
because one plus one doesn't equal
two automatically.
>> Will (50:33):
Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, but yeah, but Sony,
you know, and ah, Sony has done a good
job with Spidey, in every iteration that they've had
him.
>> Sarah (50:43):
Yeah. Yeah. and,
and we even, they even. And I'm not
familiar with this character, but, but We.
We Circle back to even Daredevil.
He returns in this episode and we
see that another intern, Jean,
is finesse. And, she has been
(51:03):
spying on Norman. And it looks like next season
she'll be spying on Harry, too.
So like, like,
again, there are things that happened
earlier in the season that. And I
think also because I don't
remember the exact release order of these episodes,
(51:24):
I know they were in batches very similar to how
we have broken it up. And I
think that's why a lot of the
connective tissue feels
stronger because you're not going week to week
and. And the arcs feel much more
complete because like, you are
(51:45):
watching them in a full arc.
and you like. Yes,
the previous arc ended with After
Scorpion versus Spider man. And.
And the first two episodes of the last
three feature very much like Harry or
Peter trying to deal with
(52:06):
losing in battle and. And. And
regaining strength and trying to figure out,
well, like the doubting that
occurs of that and. And also kind
of some ptsd. but he gets. He gets
his stuff together, granted.
>> Will (52:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:25):
I mean, you brought it up before the whole respect
line. I was just like, they're going
there. No, they're not. Thank God.
>> Will (52:35):
I was like, yeah, because as soon as the c. As soon as
Norman started going there, I was just like, oh. and then he was
like, with respect. And I was just like,
okay. No,
did a twist on it. And it's completely,
you know, Norman read the room. You gotta.
You know. But. But it really. It goes to like, again, to
(52:55):
show the selfishness of Mormon. And you know, he's just using Peter
as it means to an end. and, you know,
so serious.
Yeah. So was that.
>> Sarah (53:05):
And then, yeah, like his conversation with Doc
Ock.
>> Will (53:09):
Oh, yeah, I was about to go there. Yeah, that's exactly what I was about
to. About to segue to was his, ah, conversation
with Doc Ock and and their rival.
Their history and rivalry and stuff.
And Yeah, I mean, it's just
everything about Norman is just like. Just, you know, it's
as we. As we know, we will eventually
be, you know, become the Goblin and. And I like the way
(53:32):
that they're. You know, even
from. And to your point about how earlier
episodes planted the seed, you know, we. We
saw the. So about it. You know, we saw the.
The selfishness of Norman and where, you know, and what angle is he.
What's this? What's the angle here for why he has such a
fascination with Peter after he sees him? They're
in a Stairwell. and. And we get that
(53:54):
payoff, you know, with, him,
like. Yeah, with the spider. And. And
of course, you know, back. You know, he does end up
creating Spider man, so.
>> Sarah (54:04):
Right, right. Even though he was trying to
create something for himself.
>> Will (54:09):
Like, for himself, though. Exactly. It wasn't. Yeah.
>> Sarah (54:11):
It's the ego of Norman that they did such a
good job with because he.
He is very much like
Tony. Very much.
And. And he. He's a businessman. He's got
all this money and power, and he just wants
more. Well, then you start
seeing, like, your rival become a
(54:33):
superhero.
>> Will (54:34):
Yep.
>> Sarah (54:35):
Well, I gotta. I don't have that.
And. And I love that line in the final
episode where when. When Doctor Strange
arrives and he says, you guys with your powers.
Powers floating around, like, you're better than us. I
mean, the conversation with Doc Ock
even gets at that to a point. Like.
(54:56):
Like, Norman can't have
anyone appear, to
be superior to him.
>> Will (55:04):
Nope, not at all.
>> Sarah (55:05):
And. And so, like,
he's able to minimize anyone
who's a threat. Threat in that regard.
And. And yet he doesn't have
superpowers. And so he feels inferior
to anyone who does. And that
is. That is an angle arguably
on. On Norman
(55:27):
that has. Has been there, but I feel
like for the first time, really fleshed
out, at least for me. And it
really feels like. Okay, you're
building a strong
justification for a vendetta
against Peter in particular.
>> Will (55:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:47):
which. Which I think that
this show would not work
if they. If the execution
between this relationship between
Norman and. And Peter
was. Was not done as well as it has
been done.
>> Will (56:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:08):
it is a. It is the backbone of the show,
which is arguably surprising because in the past
there's been so much more focused on
Harry and Peter. But.
But. Which is sad
because I feel like by. By
establishing such. The relationship
between Norman and. And
(56:30):
Peter, like, how
that unravels
allows there to be like, just
naturally that vendetta
in that. That antagonism
between Harry and Peter. Like, it's just.
>> Will (56:47):
Yeah, because I, like, I think back. Yeah. Because one of the.
One of the earlier episodes in this block that we
watched, you know, they're. They're whenever,
Harry, you know, whenever. Nor like,
basically kicked Harry out of the room, he was. Wanted
to have that conversation. And. And so,
Yeah, so that. That's a great example. I'm glad you brought
(57:08):
that up because, you know, that. That. That made me think of that example
of. Of that and, you know, again, planting the seed
for why things go south between Harry
and, and Peter. at least how they're going to, how they're
going to do it in this iteration of Spider Man. especially
when you can think about like when, you know, it was Harry who
got Peter the, the traditional, well
known suit. because the the suit that
(57:31):
Norman, did. They settled on got destroyed by
the, the fight in the fight with the scorpion. and then of course, you know,
using the Go get him tiger, taking that from Mary J.
To, you know, to, to Harry.
>> Sarah (57:42):
so yeah, that, that went a bit
far. I
was like, that's weird.
>> Will (57:49):
That was weird. Yeah, I like that just doesn't.
It doesn't, doesn't. It doesn't feel right.
Yeah. It's coming from him. Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:57):
Some things are, aren't meant for that. I
mean, I mean, and, and maybe.
>> Will (58:02):
If it were Nico, I would have been okay. If it were Nico.
Yeah. It has nothing to do with.
>> Sarah (58:07):
Yeah, yeah, I, I know exactly with what you're
gonna say because I feel the same way. I'm like, it's not
because she's female, however, like, we
equate that line so so much with Mary
Jane that it's very hard
not to like,
it's very hard not to be like,
whoa, talking about moving
(58:30):
fast. Okay.
but yeah, I, I'm very
much glad that we, we
watched this season. and also that
again.
And this bodes well for the next Disney
plus show that we'll get into later this month with Andor
(58:51):
Season 2, given how they're structuring their
episode release. You can do
the three episodes two
episodes at a time, but if you're
gonna do it like,
it should make sense with how they were written.
>> Will (59:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:08):
Like this, that's what this show proves to me
above all else. I mean, I feel like
earlier when we were. This year, when we're talking
Invincible, they do some,
some combining of
episodes released. Of course, there was the
infamous Daredevil a few weeks ago that had
episodes five and six, but those did
(59:30):
not. Those felt like scheduling.
Not, not for purposes of the story they're
trying to tell. Like there's a,
there's a reason why we're releasing them in this
manner because of the arcs and
because of the overall story.
And then I foresee that happening with Andor
season two as well. But, it's.
(59:52):
It's when. It's when it's because of scheduling
that. That causes it to become a detriment
as opposed to, to a, an attribute of
a show.
>> Will (01:00:02):
Yeah, agreed. Agreed.
>> Sarah (01:00:05):
All right. Well, on that note, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:00:10):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk W I L L M P O.
>> Sarah (01:00:15):
L K and you can find me there too at SJ Belmont
S J B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on
X formerly known as Twitter. And I said
that backwards but forgive me in another life.
please follow us on
Twitter AKA X. How do
we used to say it?
>> Will (01:00:34):
X formerly known as Twitter.
>> Sarah (01:00:36):
X formerly known as Twitter. The first time
I'm so tired for some reason. Follow us
there at see the nerd at Blue sky
at Scene N Nerd. Friend us on Facebook. Follow us on
Instagram and threads at scene underscore n
underscore nerd and Visit our website www.scree
a nerdpodcast.com but most importantly, rate,
(01:00:57):
follow and comment on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.
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