March 7, 2025 • 76 mins
In this new episode, Sarah and Will are rolling out the red carpet to celebrate Women's History Month by shining a dazzling spotlight on some truly badass female filmmakers like the trailblazing Alice Guy-Blaché and the iconic Margaret Booth. Get ready for a deep dive into the cinematic contributions of these groundbreaking women who paved the way for future generations! (0:00)
But wait, there’s more! They also dish out the latest Oscars gossip that’s juicier than a ripe tomato, sharing their hot takes on the nominations and winners. Sarah shares her TV marathon musings that might inspire your next binge-watch, while Will offers his thoughts on the awards scene. (3:10)
Next on the agenda, they review the season one finale of "Paradise," titled "The Man Who Kept the Secrets," and unpack what it all means for the next season. Expect theories, laughter, and maybe a few tears as they discuss the twists and turns that left us all on the edge of our seats! (13:45)
Finally, they dive headfirst into the premiere of "Daredevil: Born Again," chatting about the much-anticipated return of Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk. They explore how this new installment connects to the previous series, and whether it lives up to the legacy of its predecessors. Spoiler alert: it’s going to be a thrilling ride! (43:30)
We encourage you to connect with us on social media platforms: X @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. If you find yourself enjoying our lively banter, we kindly ask you to consider leaving us a rating and following our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your preferred audio streaming service!
---
✍️ Episode References
Alice Guy-Blaché
https://www.bfi.org.uk/features/alice-guy-blache
Margaret Booth
https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/1936
The Oscars
https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies
Paradise
https://press.hulu.com/shows/paradise/
Daredevil: Born Again
https://www.marvel.com/tv-shows/daredevil-born-again/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Greetings nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont,
and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you
doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:07):
Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well. Happy
March.
>> Sarah (00:11):
Happy March. Happy. Women's History
Month.
>> Will (00:15):
Yeah. Yeah. We, It is Women's History
Month and I, look forward to
something we started during Black History Month was we
started doing some profiles and with notable
folks in the entertainment industry and
also with the
way I was acting, directing in front of the camera, behind the
(00:36):
camera. So I found a couple,
to start off this month. I found some of
the early days of filmmaking, some
filmmakers, who wanted to profile
this week. And the first one is Alice Key
Block. she was a fridge. the
world's. The world's first female
(00:57):
director. She was actually born in Paris in
1873. And she
was She started in the film business as a secretary
to the Gamon Film Company. But
over just being a part of the
around the business and stuff, she was
very interested in. And it got inspiration
(01:17):
from a cinema graph from the Lumiere
Brothers. And she urged a boss of her company
to let her use a camera
to make a movie of her own. And so she
actually created one of the first narrative films called
La Fe, which was
translated to cabbage fairy in 1896. And
(01:37):
it was one of 700 films made under that,
the studio Gamond's name. But she also
developed techniques like split screen matching sound to
film. And eventually And she also
created the Close Up. So she eventually moved
to New York and created her own studios,
that was called Select Studios and it was
(01:58):
one of the largest ones before Hollywood
really, you know, really took
over the industry and stuff. So But, yeah,
that was. That was one filmmaker I wanted to
profile. And then a second one was Margaret,
Booth. And she was was one of the first
film editors. And she
worked on the film Birth of a Nation, which I think many people
(02:21):
are familiar with about from D.W. griffith. That was
in 1915. and then she just continued
to work her way up in the studio system and she did
receive an Oscar nomination for Mutiny M on the
Bounty, the 1935 film. So those
are just a couple profiles wanted to share this week before we
dive into paradise and.
And Daredevil.
>> Sarah (02:43):
Awesome. very cool. what did
you have any takeaways from the Oscars?
>> Will (02:49):
honestly, you know, I. Honestly not really. I
Didn't, watch Charlie, the films this year
or this past? This past year. I, I
know a lot of folks are disappointed that, to me, Moore did not
win for the, the Substance. I know you watched that one, but.
>> Sarah (03:04):
Honestly, I haven't seen the
Substance.
>> Will (03:07):
Oh, I thought you did.
>> Sarah (03:08):
Oh, no, no.
>> Will (03:09):
Oh, I thought. Oh, was it a Nora that you watched? Which one was
it?
>> Sarah (03:13):
No, I didn't watch either of those. I watched
the Timothy Chalamet one. That's, oh, that's My
mom dragged me to.
>> Will (03:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I was working my way to that one. Yeah.
yeah, I knew you watched one of the films. yeah. But, I thought for
what some reason, I know we talked about the Substance, so maybe that's why
I thought you'll watch that one too.
>> Sarah (03:30):
Yeah.
>> Will (03:31):
Big into body horror.
>> Sarah (03:33):
I, I, I was, I was questioning
why it was for Golden Globes nominated
under comedy. and musical.
Interesting. We're stretching dark humor. I mean, we've
always stretched dark humor, but still, still, it's just
like. Yeah, yeah, I,
it's because I, I,
(03:55):
I tend not to watch movies as much
these days. Amora is on my list, though, of
something once it becomes reasonably priced
to rent or it goes on a streaming service I'm
about to put on and just check it out because I
have heard good things. I think it's,
it's the curse of. Well, once you're a
(04:15):
winner and the fact that you won, like, the major
categories, you swept them, suddenly
everyone starts to not like you.
>> Will (04:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:24):
You're no longer. Yeah, you're no longer the
under the dog that you once were.
>> Will (04:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:31):
My God. But, but also
all of the controversy
surrounding the competitors,
I, I kind of figured it was gonna go that way, and
I kind of, I kind of figured. For
some reason I
knew, I, I had a feeling that
Timothy, Timothy wasn't gonna win. and
(04:54):
Adrian was gonna take it. and,
and, and that's, that's what happened.
Just. And, and having seen a complete
unknown, I, he's
good. He's not great.
I know in, his, I think it was the SAG
Actor award he won. He mentioned in a speech how
(05:15):
he's on the path for greatness. And I, I
understand that, and I can see that in the works, that
the projects he's choosing to do and all of
that, but that was
not the role.
That was not. Because all anyone will compare you
to is Joaquin Phoenix in.
(05:36):
And that's a very hard act to
follow. and it's Arguably a much more interesting story
than a complete unknown. So.
Yeah, it, I, I again
did not follow as much. I did. I did.
I always, watch Kieran
Culkin's speeches because they're hilarious. And I
(05:56):
love how, his wife really told. Said that
out loud. And he has witnesses that if, they'd
try for four, as long as he won an
Oscar.
>> Will (06:07):
Well, there you go.
>> Sarah (06:08):
Yeah, he won the Emmy. And he was like, well, now.
Now we're gonna try for three. And apparently
that same night she said, well, we'll go for
four if you win an Oscar. And then the next year he
did, so. Wow.
>> Will (06:21):
Wow. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, really, I
guess, really the only thing I did watch as
far as far as nominated films,
I did watch Wallace. I finally did watch Wallace and Gromit,
Avengers, Most Foul, which was nominated in the,
animated, category, which I did see that, flow.
Won that one. But. But
(06:42):
beyond. Yeah, so beyond that, you
know, I was going to try to watch Wicked, but like, you,
when I, When I went to Amazon to, to rent it, it
was still, you know, know, very,
very like, I'll just wait. I'll just wait
till it comes down or goes to get on
the normal. Get to a normal stream, you
(07:02):
know, or there's a.
>> Sarah (07:05):
Something. Because those, those
renting prices, you're just like, might as well
buy it. M. I could. I could have gone to the
theater. I don't understand here,
like, exactly. It's so
bizarre. But. But I think they want you
to buy it. So they're gonna have high. And the fact
(07:25):
that they're being released, being available
on those services, granted
for a fee, like such a short
time after they were in theaters. I mean,
remember in the years of Blockbuster, you had
to wait a good six, four months
until you could. And. And all of that.
(07:46):
So. But,
I, I keep. I can't. For the last few
weeks, I kept wanting to bring up this show,
but kept forgetting until right after we
stopped recording. But I did
recently get into the show on Paramount plus
called School, Spirits.
>> Will (08:05):
Yeah, I've heard about the show. Haven't watched it, but
yeah, I don't.
>> Sarah (08:10):
Think it's your type of show.
And, And I just say that knowing. Well,
I, I think it's a good show. I mean, it kept
me on. I binged the first season.
the second season at that time had already started and then
I got caught up and it just wrapped its second
season yesterday. And it's funny,
(08:32):
When I was watching the finale this morning, I was thinking to
myself, I'm like this is the last episode.
How are they gonna go to season three? I'm not sure.
But they, they figured out a way very
cleverly, albeit I kind of figured that was
gonna happen.
and, and it's surpr. I think why
I got hooked is because I started
(08:55):
watching it by just having it on in the
background. because to get through those first
two episodes of studying the premise of this
girl who's dead and, and
finds herself kind of in a limbo
at her school where she died among
other ghosts who have died
at that same school.
(09:17):
There's there that's just this
surface iceberg
plot explanation, about the
show not going into so many details. and
then I started finding myself paying
gradually as episodes went on more and more
attention to things because they did a very good
job about. Because
(09:40):
her best friend who's still alive can see
her. There's kind of a link
and you see through her
and these other ghosts the
morning of the. The loss
of, of youth and And also
like that grief of their own like un
(10:01):
unfulfilled life
versus also the grief of
those they leave behind. and
so when they started tapping into that I, I
got it piqued my interest and they did some very
good through the, the people who
are alive versus dead. Very good
(10:21):
parallels that were going on.
So Yeah, I would. I was surprised
that I, I found myself
as engaged in that.
And. And arguably season two is just as good
as season one. So there wasn't like a drop
off or anything or it didn't get significantly
(10:42):
better. But, but yeah,
I, I think it's a, it's a decent
show to, to binge get caught up
on or even to wait until it's over and then binge
the whole thing because I really don't know how many
seasons it's got in it. I don't know.
>> Will (11:01):
Fair enough, fair enough. I Yeah. As far
as other shows that I, I finally did start
Reacher season three and And
it's like. It's very good. It's very good. I'm about. I'm
a still. Still gotta watch week
five. But I've watched up to week four and really
have enjoyed it. you know it's, it is what
(11:21):
it is. I mean you know that definitely, you know we jokingly
call it dad TV and it's definitely not.
But but the, the
overall storyline, and the issues
that he is getting into, this
season. Is. It is. It's good.
It really is good. And I swear, Alan Richton, each. Each
season, he gets larger.
(11:44):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:44):
Yeah, that. I. I did see
some. Some interviews with him and. And stuff,
and I would agree with that.
>> Will (11:54):
And there's a dude in the show this season that's even bigger
than him, and it's just like, okay, yeah, yeah.
But, But yeah, it's great. I mean, if you're a fan
of. Fan of Reacher, I would
say, you'll enjoy this
season. And. And I think over. Actually, I
think it's off to a better start than. Than
last season's, to be honest. But, But yeah,
(12:16):
but, it is good. And, continue. We'll continue
to stay on that, dad. Tv. Bob. there.
>> Sarah (12:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Alan, Richter
apparently would enjoy hearing you say it's better than
season two because he was not happy with season.
What. I understand. And I'm like.
I'm like, thank you for being honest.
Yeah.
>> Will (12:39):
That's one thing I do appreciate about him. He is all.
He is very candid and very honest. whenever you see him
on interviews and podcasts and stuff.
>> Sarah (12:47):
Yeah. Ah, that one with Michael Rosenbom, like,
wow. Y. All right, well, that
brings us to the big topic tonight.
the Paradise Season one
finale. The man who Kept the
Secrets. Xavier and Robinson race
to find President Bradford's m. Murderer
before it's too late.
(13:10):
All right, well, what did you think about this finale?
>> Will (13:13):
I loved it. I. I really did it.
this show, really, it.
All the. All the clues, all the
breadcrumbs, even down to the cheesy fries. I've
shared it before that there's nothing that
is like a throwaway in this, In this
show. And to
me, it delivered. Even.
(13:36):
Even with. When we do find out the
one mystery as far as who murdered Cal,
the other part, I felt, But part of me felt like
that was by the end of the season.
That was sort of a secondary mystery to the. To the
primary one, in my opinion, as far as, like, what
was. What. What. What. When. Especially after we get
(13:57):
the episode with whenever, President
Bradford does find a tablet and starts, you know,
keeping the journals and putting all the pieces together.
That. That was, to me, like the bigger.
Bigger thing that was going on here. But, But
yeah, I really. Yes, it was. You know, it was definitely a
different change of pace with,
you know, given how how intense and everything
(14:19):
episode seven was. But
I. I was fine with how
this episode ended
and And I'm glad that, you know, of course, we do
know that there is a season two that's
coming. And, so I'm glad that we don't end,
you know, with the cliffhanger, with. With an
unresolved story.
>> Sarah (14:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I. I have to be
very careful with how I say this
and articulate this because I don't want there to be
confusion because I have seen a lot of reactions to this
season finale. I am
not mad that it was the Librarian. I have
(15:03):
no, like, the motivation. It makes sense.
I can tell you the exact scene,
the exact moment where
I suddenly was like, oh,
I don't like this. And
it came where it started to
become too contrite, and the.
(15:24):
The episode lost me. and it
was the moment when he had
already knocked out Xavier and was
telling him the story. the story that just
went on and on and on. And as it went
on, it started to lose me more and
more and more. Not because,
(15:45):
like, well, if we were paying
attention, we would have recognized.
We could have potentially recognized him because we
had seen the shooter in the first episode,
but it was more like, as soon as
he started, I was like, why didn't it take you three
years? And so the
(16:05):
exact moment when it really. I was like, I.
I don't. I don't think this was the right move
is the moment when he explained
why, Like, I appreciated the
explanation of why he, How he got comfortable
and how he felt like he deserved. Like, that made
sense. But the moment he said. And
(16:25):
then. And they show the
flashback where Cal's in his robe
walking into the library and
just asking him where the music stuff,
suddenly that triggered some ptsd.
It just. That just
that bothered me. and.
And it didn't get any better because
(16:48):
even, like, it just.
It just annoyed me that all we
got for the explanation why, at
that random night when it just so
happened that the cameras were off and
that all, like, everything started
becoming way too. Oh, well,
(17:08):
that's. That's a, a
MacGuffin or a shortcut or
just a simplistic way to explain,
like. And the scene,
this. The way that the scene of the
attack, the piano music, it just
didn't hit for me. And then at the end with
Xavier and Samantha, at no point
(17:30):
did I think Presley was dead. At no
point was I like, oh, I
like, the stakes weren't there for me,
probably because I knew there was going to be a Season two.
There was. So I
just. I. I understand. And I'm Glad it
worked for you.
>> Will (17:50):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (17:50):
But from that point forward
I was just like okay. And I'm not
saying it was a bad finale.
I have critiques and
it's more, I didn't like the pacing.
I've seen worse. Let's be honest, we've seen
a lot worse. But it, it
(18:10):
also just there were things
that like I just, it
didn't, it felt too contrite.
I have more complaints but I'll let you
add in some good thoughts.
>> Will (18:24):
Yeah, no, I, I, I mean you know I've
seen the complaints about
being a librarian or anti climatic or
And so, so
what, what made it work for me
was again the setup.
>> Sarah (18:42):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:42):
And, and especially because
it ah was really. I ah guess it just really
got into the larger
theme. Some of the larger themes that we've seen
throughout this season.
With, with you know again and
you know with you know these workers who will
(19:04):
never get the benefit of being able to
but you know get the benefit of if and when this incident
does occur, which obviously it found it
does, they will be left out.
And, and, and, and and it gets
to like for example but
for Xavier being on the President's detail,
(19:25):
he wouldn't have got in and, and,
and, and what's so special about you know obviously you know you
got the the billionaire. So for me it was just
overall larger themes that like
really made the motivation and then also just
the relationship that Trent built
with all the other workers so that such
that whenever they do discover the
(19:47):
toxin and and,
and and everything it
just, it was very
believable for him to, to do,
to, to be the, the killer. And, and it
made sense too. Just I think overall I
like the fact that they went, they zigged instead of zagged
because you know all along you know we both were like
(20:09):
very spiraling. I had the crazy, you know I had to, I
was on, on the train of it was a power play by
Sinatra. That's why she was trying to like
you know she was the motivation behind it and
stuff. So I appreciated the fact that they went in the direction
that they did tying it to the some of the
more larger themes that that the show was, was
(20:29):
exploring throughout you know, throughout the
season.
>> Sarah (20:33):
Yeah, I, I, I, I agree to an
extent. Like the, the, the setup
of Trent makes sense and I
completely enjoyed the
how it connected to the have and the have
nots. And it just goes back to last
week and the FBI or
(20:54):
the Secret Service agent who Xavier is like saying
Go here, do this, do that. As soon as they are
about to get on the helicopter, he's like, oh, no, no, you
stay here. And it's just,
it's that same idea of m. Like, well, why do you
get. Why am I. I'm supposed to.
Like, this is my job too. It's,
(21:14):
it's a very uncomfortable and unsettling
thing. However,
and, and maybe this is just because
with the difference of, of our history with
the showrunner, they, they
use the same composer from this as us. And
it's very clear because I was distracted during that
(21:35):
whole opening,
opening stuff because that
score is so reminiscent of. This
is a score. Oh, my God, it's
uncanny. And I was just like,
why, why, why, why are you, why are
you choosing this, to
go? Like, I. It's a very, It's a very
(21:56):
interesting association that I've never
really had it. It would be like if
they took a score from Star wars
and, like, played it over top, and you're just
like, this isn't the same world.
It's not. Why are you. This is
weird. Or, or even Star Trek. Like,
(22:18):
suddenly you're watching something and, and you hear.
And you're just like, wait a second. What?
So I, I, I, know it's the same
composer, but I'm like, dude, you're good.
Why are you pulling from that?
that, that case, that box is closed.
Okay, so,
(22:39):
so, and, and I
completely. Like, again, I'm not mad it was
the librarian, because I wanted it
to. They were
not. Like, nobody could predict. Nobody
could really. You had
to be really looking in order
to see it. You really had to, like, go frame
(23:02):
by frame. And so I applaud them for all
that. I just don't appreciate
the lack of motivation for why it took
three years for him to finish the job.
M. That's it. That's like, like the one
thing. Yeah.
Like, that day, like, there was.
(23:23):
There. There just seemed to be it. So
it was so. It felt so random. It was like,
okay, so then one day you just woke up on the wrong
side of the bed and went and murdered someone. Cool. Cool.
Cool.
>> Will (23:35):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that,
that, yeah. And I, I get. I can totally see
that. And I, I, and I. And I think that's a fair, fair
criticism. that. But, But I think that. I think that's the
whole. I think that's the, the point, though. I think
it is the random, the randomness of it that,
you know, he's gotten very comfortable here and
(23:56):
then just you know, but just one day,
it, it just, you know, that, that.
That feeling of just thinking about
Adam and, and, and everything,
and it just. He just snapped
and. And he, decided that was the
data. I'm going to finish the job that I didn't
(24:17):
do years, you know, years
earlier.
>> Sarah (24:20):
Yeah, because, I mean, if he had, also really
been studying this world, he
would have figured out that Sinatra is actually the one he should have
gone and killed, not Cal.
>> Will (24:31):
Yeah, well, there's that too.
>> Sarah (24:32):
Yeah. Yeah. That, that wasn't. That's another thing where
it's just like, again, it's just that
length of time. That length of time. That's a very
long time, arguably. So.
>> Will (24:44):
Yeah, yeah. And, yeah,
and, you know, you know, I felt too just like
with the, with the play, on
the, the title and, and also just
in the fact that Peter Lawford, was.
Was married to a Kennedy, you know, he was Bobby Kennedy's
and JFK's, brother in law.
So, you know, so I, you know, so I was trying, you
(25:06):
know, so whenever, When I saw
that title and, and thinking about, you know, the book
in the library and stuff, and of course he,
Whenever Bradford was trying
to, you know, make the mixtape and stuff, you know, it, it
just, I think that's, you know, again, it's just the
randomness of Assassin, you know, Assassins, because, you know,
(25:28):
you do have, you know, you have that Kennedy tie
there too. And I may be reaching there, but it was just something that was
just, you know, just kind of daunt. It just kind of struck me,
that, you know, that we, that we. We had
had those, Those themes in there as well.
And also Kane, you know, you know, pulling out
the Rat Pack reference to, to, you know, with
(25:49):
nicknaming everyone way back in the, you know, episode one or
two. So, you know, that was, you know, it was just. It was
all those, like I said, all, all those little things throughout
each. To this point is
what for me, I think, to your fair,
fair points there, I think it was just the
payoff, I think, because it's just so. It's not
every day you get a series that just pays
(26:11):
off those types of
breadcrumbs that they, they sprinkle throughout the season
and, and not only where they're
used, but they're used so well. So I thought it was just the
execution of it that was really, just really,
got me. And then even to the point where
whenever Sinatra and Jane were having
(26:33):
a text conversation about, about Presley
Yeah. You know, because Jane is. You know, they did such
a. Such a good job of just,
like, creating this, like, psychopath
with. With Jane and. And being the
enforcer that I,
you know, I, like, I was. I was react. I reacted
so. So much when the text messages are going so much my
(26:55):
w. She like, she had gone upstairs and she, like,
checked on me just like, are you okay? I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just watching
paradise, so.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:05):
So they got you hook, line and sinker.
>> Will (27:07):
Yeah, they were. Yeah, I was just. I was just
completely, like, bought into this.
>> Sarah (27:12):
We would have seen stuff. We would have
seen stuff. There's no way, like, it
just, Yeah, they. The way that
whole exchange went down, I. I
couldn't believe. I was like, no, this.
She ain't gonna do anything for Presley because she's not gonna get the
Wii. So she. She, like, she's
(27:32):
smart. I don't think. I.
I wouldn't say necessarily that they did a great
job about building Jane as an
enforcer. They.
My whole thought while watching the
Jane part of this episode unfolding
is just thinking back at all the times
Will brought up on the podcast about how
(27:53):
Gabriella is the wild card. And I'm like,
she. He should have been talking about Jane.
Nothing. Jane's wild card.
>> Will (28:04):
Yeah, but. Yeah, now, I mean, it would benefit
a hindsight, but also, Well, because.
Yeah, because of what happened in this episode. Janie's clearly the wild card,
but.
>> Sarah (28:13):
Well, but he also killed Billy.
Yeah, she. That.
That is. That's my point. I think
that. I don't think it's
necessarily that they did a good job building her as an
enforcer. They did a good job
about utilizing her
early enough. So you have that
(28:35):
notation that she's working for Sinatra,
then putting her on the sidelines and then
circling back to her while at the
same time leaving a
character to further flesh out in a
later season. Yeah, yeah,
because. And. And that's the
kind of leads into why,
(28:58):
part of this whole Sinatra, Jane
and Xavier and Presley,
that didn't. The stakes weren't there for
me just because they had spent this
whole season and even in this
episode, it's like Sinatra being a monster
and this and that. And I've been on the defendant,
(29:20):
Samantha.
>> Will (29:21):
okay, you've been the Matt Burdock
for sure.
>> Sarah (29:25):
Like it was. It's interesting. She, She did.
She. It was clear to me
that she didn't want something bad
happened to Presley. She didn't. She didn't want that.
She needed the leverage to get what she
wanted. But she's a mother of her
own, so it wouldn't
(29:45):
seem right, considering what we're
led to believe about this idea of paradise stemming
from the death of her own son. Like. Like,
there's something. And. And it just left me
with this question, especially with her interactions with,
Gabriella at the beginning and towards the end of this
episode is. There's this,
(30:06):
like, this constant. Like, you don't know what I've done. I've
done horrible things, and I'm a monster and all this stuff.
And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so, yeah,
technically, you sent Jane to kill Billy, but
we understand why. I don't know if that makes you a
monster. Technically.
Yeah, yeah. You, You. You had
(30:26):
Billy kill those. Those other people.
Is that the only thing? Like,
I. That's where I'm kind of,
like, from what we've
learned, those are the two things
that she's done. I mean, yes, she was a part of the
creation of paradise. So to Trent's
point, paradise was built on the
(30:49):
graves of people,
but she. She was one of many. I
mean, Cal's dad is also at, fault there, and so
is that the architect, and so is
Gabriella.
>> Will (31:01):
So.
>> Sarah (31:01):
But. But my point being,
I just. Towards the end, they kept saying
that to, where I'm just thinking, the math ain't
math. Then for me, I need to
understand. I feel like there should be something
more, and yet I don't know if there is.
>> Will (31:19):
Yeah, well, I. I agree with you that you were
vindicated in the. In the. That she's not a complete
monster when, you know. Yeah, she was trying
to use Presley as. As leverage. But at
the end of the day, she, you know, she. She did try
to. She did text Jane and be like, look, you know,
stop. You know, stand down, you know,
but. And then. And then with the whole. Over the whole thing with
(31:42):
the Wii and, you know, you know, call
it. Are you crazy? You know, you don't call a crazy
because.
>> Sarah (31:49):
So, yeah, yeah. I mean, as soon as
Jane fired, and stepped into focus,
I even said her line out loud.
Like, two minutes before she said it. I was like, I should have given
her the weight like
you should have. And. And I will say,
because I always have to call it out like, this
(32:10):
has nothing to do. My criticism about the
stakes in that. That scene between
Sinatra and Xavier has nothing to do with the performances because
the performance is spot on. Yeah.
>> Will (32:21):
Yeah. And honestly, the performances, actually,
they're so spot on and is so well acted. And
that I think it covers
over some of the things that we're, that
we're discussing tonight, quite frankly.
>> Sarah (32:35):
For Will, not for me because they stuck out like a
Thor. Yeah.
>> Will (32:42):
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree.
I mean, yeah, there are. If you, if you do stop. I mean,
hell, I was just thinking last week with the with, with Xavier
and not with the cell phone. I was just like,
wait a minute, you know this, you're. You're a secret Service agent. There's thing.
You know, there's a thing called a gets card that will
allow for you to like get over. You know, get
(33:03):
a, get a telephone line. So. Yeah, so I mean
I could like nitpick like that kind of stuff for sure.
>> Sarah (33:08):
But yeah, I had about
those kind of things. So.
>> Will (33:13):
Yeah, so I mean, but, yeah, but But that being
said, yeah, speaking
of, this just with this episode and Trent
and also Maggie with the I did like the. I did like
how when the and
Robinson were, you know, what Rob.
The. You know, obviously the Robbie was day
(33:34):
drinking and the Robinson went over to like help
out and stuff. So I did like the way that they
figured out that, that she persuaded her
to like look at the files and, and they figured out
that at least while the Trent was
being expository on with Xavier, they just used good
old fashioned storytelling and sleuthing to figure out that Maggie
(33:54):
was. Shouldn't have been in there either. With, with the.
When they looked at the records and realized that
the person who should have been there had a peanut
allergy. which again was this a great use to like pulling the
cheese fries back into like what, what, what?
>> Sarah (34:08):
You know what was
crazy was there was a scene
like five, five to ten minutes before that
whole thing unfolded where
they, it was like they were speaking to the public,
like, stay in your houses or something like that. And there was a
shot of the diner and the girls there eating cheese
fries. I swear, I swear to
(34:30):
God, I thought in my
head while watching that moment and looking
at that actress eat those cheese fries. I'm
like, how did you get into paradise?
Randomly thought. And it was
nothing. I was just like, how, how. What was
the selection process for some of these people?
>> Will (34:51):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (34:53):
See it's, it's funny you bring that up
because as much as I did appreciate
the whole like girl tag team and the
day drinking all that. What.
And this is where the episode like, would I
say it, it's contrary. Like,
like they, they figure that out at the same
amount of time while Xavier is,
(35:16):
like, at the. Going back to the.
The, bedroom and retracing all the
steps and finding the mixtape that. I
want to know how long Cal's been dead because,
man, poor Jeremy, he could have had that mixtape the
whole time. Whatever. It's a side
note, but. And then it takes them, what. I
want to know how long exactly to find,
(35:38):
like, the. That nut allergy
within, like, 25,000. Is it
25, 000 files? Like, there's some
conveniences where I'm just like, oh,
my God.
So. But, my
favorite part of this episode, and my
(35:58):
favorite line of this episode, of course it comes from
Cal, is you are the things you
love. And if that's the case, then you are
me. Jeremy, if you don't like this world that
I built, that fixed it.
I really appreciate that
ending because of
the. The. Another iconic moment
(36:21):
that happens earlier in the season between the
grandfather, the grandson, and the
dead father. Like, the
way they have, subtly
dealt with grief in that
complicated dynamic.
and. And you've seen the parallels between
(36:44):
father and son and father and son.
Again, like. Like, the. The
execution of that was so good. And I
didn't really see that coming until at
the end. And then he looks up and he sees all these people
walking towards him that, like, yeah, Jeremy,
whether he likes it or not, he is his father's
son. And so a lot of the
(37:06):
reason why Cal was able
to go as far as he did in
politics. Yeah. Yeah, he has a rich daddy,
but it's because of that charm that he explains
to Xavier in the pilot episode. And I think
Jeremy has some of that. And I'll be at
probably a better head on his shoulders, so.
(37:27):
So. And a better moral compass. So I like
how. I can appreciate how
we knew Xavier was gonna eventually leave
and go and find Terry, but I like how
they still opened some.
Some doors for stories to still be
told at paradise as well. While.
(37:47):
While, For some reason Xavier has to go
alone. I don't. I. I don't understand that part,
but he has to go alone. And, I'm not saying he
should take the kids. That's not what I'm saying at all. But he does
have other friends.
>> Will (38:00):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:02):
So. So I. I just.
That sets up a season where you're gonna be
getting Xavier on his journey while
paradise is.
Is figuring out things
on their own and. And leaves more,
doors.
>> Will (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
For sure. Yeah. I did like. I did, like,
with. With Xavier, You know,
bringing back the whole hard
decision that he made with his father to
have, Him you mandatorily,
retired. and. And also
to bringing up the fact that again,
(38:43):
Xavier, is a palate himself. And as you know, it was that tension between
him and his father. Like why, you know. You know, his dad wanted him to sort of, you
know, be it. Be a good outline. But
Xavier, I think is. I think his eyesight was.
Was bad if I recall. Which, Why he
couldn't. Why he couldn't be, Couldn't. Couldn't go that route. But
I mean, but he still was able to get his pilot's license.
(39:03):
But But yeah, I just really
liked how they pull that back again from earlier in
the season. And. And of course, you know, I
think
Xavier's still, you know, feeling that he
feels comfortable going alone. and I
agree he probably should have had someone go with him, but. But at the same time
(39:23):
also feels comfortable leaving the kids back. And. And
Because you know, at least from his sense of. Of
things, everything is in paradise. It's the
safest place for him to be right now. and. And
also just he, you know, I think he.
Presley that. I thought that was a good moment between the two
of them whenever he was looking. Sitting there at the table, looking at the book
(39:44):
and you know, seeing that all the notes that
Kyle left behind, as far as the
With the map and. And shout out to the Dewey Decimal
System. Yeah, because I know we
were all like thinking, you know, we. We thought it was like a.
Probably registration for a plane or something like that. Never,
never thought that it was like. It was like,
(40:04):
you know, the Dewey. The Dewey decimal card
for the For the, you know, code for the For the book there in the
library. Which I thought was another great touch.
But But yeah, like I said, I mean, I think you're right. It
definitely with Jeremy's story, you know,
given that Sinatra is still alive, there
and And also the other characters
(40:24):
that Are still there in paradise,
you know, in the bunker will you know, definitely will
next season. We'll, you know, get to
To. To two parallel stories maybe and
hope hopefully they'll figure out some ways too to have some
flashbacks to To. To Cal and
Billy too. Because I mean James Marston was
(40:45):
just. Just great in this. In this show and hopefully
we can see some more of him and Maybe you know, especially
if Kane is still there. So maybe it may be some things with his dad.
As far as we just learn more about. Especially, since
they introduced, you
know, the. The making of this
bunker, and there's still some stories and stuff
that. That they can, you know.
>> Sarah (41:07):
Yeah, there are a lot of stories to be
mined.
>> Will (41:10):
yeah, so. So,
yeah, we know there's three seasons. Fogelman,
did say that, you know, season two has been.
Is done.
>> Sarah (41:21):
It's been confirmed. And.
>> Will (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's confirmed, though the show is
that it's written because he actually. He's like. He's like us
where we. He's like, I'm a TV viewer
too, and I don't want long breaks in between
seasons. So, I think he mentioned an article
deadline that they're planning, on starting
production in about. About a month or so.
So it's very, you know, so with the goals having
(41:45):
season two come back in early 2026. So,
so hopefully they will be able to stay on that schedule.
>> Sarah (41:53):
All right, well, that brings us to
Daredevil. Born Again,
season one, Heaven's Half
Hour. Long time ravels. Matt Murdock on Wilson
Fisk attempt to move past their darker
Personas to serve New York, but their
past resurface, reintroducing the world of
Daredevil, which. And actually, this
(42:15):
episode can easily be summed up, in a toast that
is made during the opening scene,
which says to Cherry, may
you be in heaven a full half hour before the devil knows
you're dead.
Will, what did you think about this episode?
>> Will (42:34):
So what did I think about this
episode? So I will. You know, it's
well known that I, was. I did
not watch the, They
only watched a handful of the Netflix shows. but it
was very accessible for me, and I really. I
have to say, I really, really liked it. I really did.
I, you know, we. We. We've seen. Even though,
(42:57):
you know, the show has been. It's a continuation of the
Netflix series, not. Not a reboot or
anything. And. And we've
seen both Fisk and. And Matt, in
the mcu. I mean, you know, we've got them in Spider man
and. And, King and, Echo.
She, Hulk. Yep. Hawkeye.
So we've. We've seen, you know, we've seen the
(43:18):
characters. And so I, you know,
so I went into it like, okay,
I. I appreciated the fact that
even though I didn't. I'm not like you who has the,
you know, deep ties with this show from.
You know, I. I was able. I was like, okay,
I could fill in And I was, I was able
(43:40):
to, I enjoyed it. You know, they set things
up and, and it did it in a, in a way
that was interesting
and and I really, really
got, you know, at the end of episode one,
the, the scene there in a diner. But Fisk and
Murdoch was everything I needed. Okay. I'm like, I'm on
board.
>> Sarah (44:00):
Yeah. Yeah. The I
mean the, this first episode,
really the best parts is it's, it's
their book ended perfectly because you have
the opening, I think people have said it's
a 15 minute long scene.
>> Will (44:17):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (44:17):
Open where you have, you're re
introduced and it is fully a continuation. I mean
you have, you have Foggy, you
have Karen and you have
Matt hanging out at Josie's
and, and life is normal until
next thing you know it's not.
And it turned out to be a setup
(44:40):
and, and Bullseye kills kills
Foggy. And you, you go
through and it has the,
I can appreciate how they were like, oh, we're,
we're making sure people know this is a continuation. So we're
gonna do a lot of one like
long shots, a lot of fighting
(45:01):
in narrow spaces and, and
going up stairways. And back
when the show was on Netflix,
and I was covering it up, it was
funny to me I guess when they, when they got to the
roof because about half, like
when season two of Daredevil starts,
(45:21):
there's, there's a pretty iconic moment with
Punisher and which led to some
comments about how like, well, they're
talking Daredevil because they're always talking about people being on
roofs. I swear to
God, in the Netflix Netflix
Defender universe, I
mean the amount of times you will, you will
(45:43):
spend on rooftops, whether it's your heroes or
your bad guys. And it's just like if you ever go to New York
City, just always be looking up.
Okay. Always
look up. but, but yeah, I,
I, I think the, just the
execution of that
and, and, and no need
(46:05):
to explain to anyone or feel like
you have to explain why
that death is so,
so harmful for the psyche of Matt
Murdock. And and the,
and it sparks, it has
for it pushes him to
(46:27):
retreat unlike anything else that could
happen. and, and
he does hang it up and we
one year later we get re endorsed
reintroduced to Matt Murdock
and, and things are going fine
until, until somebody else
returns from the shadows. And that would
(46:49):
be Fisk. But yeah, that scene, the,
the diner scene, it's just because
I'm Glad we got them speaking
within the first episode.
>> Will (47:00):
Y.
>> Sarah (47:01):
And then to have a full blown one on
one conversation. And also just
perfect representation for why these
two are ideal foils for one
another in terms of. And
just the, the. You know, I love.
I prefer more of a verbal sparring than a
physical sparring. Sparring. Like the
(47:23):
verbal sparring just was
so great. I couldn't keep up with all of the
lines. I mean. And then at the end you
have. Fisk is like, I will not
tolerate men running around in silly
costumes. And then he's like, I love a man who can
rise above their nature. Good luck with that.
>> Will (47:45):
And also throughout the red meat too, that you know, you know,
call. What to call out the Spider man too. Because again, just the
acknowledgment meant that, you know, with the historic
other foil of Wilson Fisk
with Spider man too. So yeah, that was, that
was Chef's kiss as far as that moment and for me
as well. And you know, another thing too, like I said, I don't have the
(48:05):
history with the show like you do and the relationships with
Karen and Foggy and Matt, but
yeah, it was. I'm glad
just to get back, just take it out of universe and get into
production universe for a moment. You know, there was a
lot of discussions about this show and, and
Feige and a team realizing that, you know, and a
(48:26):
lot of fans were worried that when it was going to go into Disney plus that it
was going to lose its edge. And. And I would like
to hear your thoughts of whether or not it is lost
as edge and there's only two episodes. But,
but your familiarity with it I would like to hear.
But I'm glad that they went the route that they did.
Scrapped whatever they had originally shot use
(48:46):
recycled what they could have and then brought back
Karen and Deborah annual. And. And
the actor plays Foggy because that
all that was the right creative decision to go
to make this show work for. For people like
me who, who are probably, you know,
familiar with Daredevil Matt more so from
seeing them m. In the mcu and also just. And people.
(49:09):
And you're listening to people like you talk about it,
the, The Netflix show. I mean I watched some of the. I did
watch some of the other Netflix shows as far as,
Jessica Jones and, And Luke Cage.
But but yeah, I, I thought that was definitely from
a. From a storytelling standpoint and I. As
soon as Foggy, when he, you know, whenever he had the little
nod, what was the Line. I'm paraphrasing here,
(49:32):
but, you know, acknowledge the, the, you know,
the past. But, looking for. Looking, you know, look to the future or, you
know, that's a scent it was right.
>> Sarah (49:39):
Whenever they were talking about.
>> Will (49:42):
Yeah. Nostalgia.
>> Sarah (49:44):
Nostalgia is a reference to the past and hope for the
future.
>> Will (49:47):
Future. Yeah. When you said that, I was like, I was like, oh,
he's dead.
>> Sarah (49:53):
So, I didn't expect
anyone to die in that scene. But as it went
on and, and clearly when he got
shot, so. And I'm sure
comic book nerds are going to come after me for saying this,
but. And I, and I'm not a comic book nerd. I've
never read the books. But from what I understand, because
this was brought up back when
(50:15):
Daredevil first premiered on Netflix
about this run this series, and
I believe it's called Born Again. And the
whole premise is that
Bullseye was given an order from
Fisk to kill Karen.
So, so when, when, When Foggy
(50:35):
went down, I actually was like, oh, God,
Karen, they're gonna do it. This is why,
this is why at the beginning,
when casting announcements, like I remember you telling
me, yeah, Foggy's. Foggy's gonna return for Daredevil.
And I'm like, well, Karen has to come.
Yeah. And then. Yeah,
(50:56):
yeah. And then. Well, no, there was a delay. I
remember this. Like, I feel like even
Bernthal was announced before Karen was. There
was a delay, but now I'm starting to figure out,
like, Karen's gonna have a bigger part and they could still do
this. They could very well. I mean, seasons two already
been greenlit that, that they actually
(51:16):
reserve that Karen's death to the end
because we all know
I'm all, I'm not, I'm not a Matt. Karen person. I
may. I met Karen and Frank person,
so, so do not Disney
plus Feige, if you
do not allow me some sort of closure for
(51:36):
this romantic entanglement,
this thing that never was,
I will turn off my subscription or at least
suspend it for a month.
Okay. Okay. But
anyways, so, so going
into it, especially when I figured out it was
(51:57):
Bullseye who was attacking, I was like,
okay, okay, I,
I, I get it. to
go back to your original question about the
whole, does it still retain an edge?
Not fully. Not fully. I
could, I could definitely tell,
especially the Korri there. There was some weird
(52:19):
CGI happening at moments during that
opening sequence there.
There's some interesting editing
choices just because, I mean, we're two
episodes in. It's Hard for me to tell if I'm
okay with it or not. I don't like the long
shots. It felt like there were a lot of long shots. It
(52:40):
felt like there were a few very
extended, montages
and just a lot of time of like us
standing on a roof with, with Fisk
looking down. And I'm like, when will
this sequence end? We get
it.
(53:01):
Like, I'm like. I'm like. It went on long enough. I could think
to myself, okay, so are we gonna get
a wide shot where he clearly is looking
at Matt? Because Matt's looking
up. So bizarre. I
just. So I,
and I. And I think it will never have that
(53:22):
same edge because part of the reason why
Daredevil season one, the
reaction was, is because it was
very fresh. And
albeit this is. I mean it's been 10
years and based on
recent Mar. MCU
television Ah, series, this is fresh and
(53:44):
different. But it's
also. It's in because of where it
comes from. It's never going to be like as fresh.
If that makes sense.
>> Will (53:54):
Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Sarah (53:56):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't, I don't.
As long as you have Charlie Cox as Matt
Murdock and Vincent D'Onofaro
as Fisk. Like,
that's, that's, that's. That's what you need. Okay. And then you
got Bernthal come in as, as
Punisher. Like the casting
(54:17):
is really on point with this.
And, Yeah.
And, and. And so as we talked about,
or I think we mentioned that one point,
Fisk. M. Fisk's whole
part is. Is very similar where.
Because we watched Echo, albeit we forgot about
(54:38):
Echo, but we did watch it at one point in time.
We do know that Fisk has been out of commission
for a while because Echo put him in
his place. Children these
days.
Yeah. And. And so he comes back
only for. For Vanessa
(54:59):
to. To be Queen Bee and. And there be
some trouble in paradise for them.
and. And then we. And he.
He. Because he found
peace or something, clarity, he wants
to go legit. I. So to
move along to episode two optics.
(55:19):
Yeah, I, I find it
while watching it. I found both episodes
because I watched them both back to back same.
I, I found the second
episode to be interesting how
both of these characters are.
They are trying to maintain
(55:42):
that Persona who they presented
themselves as in the diner. Right. And you
see the, you see especially with Matt because he's
our main character. The build up and the
clear like, oh, you're going a bit sideways.
Okay. And Just it's, it's like a
tea teapot kettle during the final,
sequence, which we will get there.
(56:04):
But, I really appreciated
the subtlety with Fisk
because throughout the episode
you, you're like, yeah, yeah, fill that hole.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, they
elected you mayor, not governor. So I don't
know if you have as much power as you think you do, but
you fill that hole, sir. and then
(56:26):
leading up to this weird random
venting about, about a sandwich and,
and then, and then you see him lift the paper and it's like,
oh, you're blackmailing. Okay, yeah,
Fisk. Okay.
>> Will (56:41):
Yeah. I like that whole sequence there because, especially
because you set, you know, you have everything set up with, with the police
chief and, you know, with the funeral and with,
you know, with the tiger, white,
tiger, being wrongfully accused.
But, you know, obviously, you know, you know,
NYPD B is
(57:01):
you know, thinking that, you know, he's a cop
killer. And and
so, yeah, so we get that. And then, but, but
also even I guess maybe going further back too, just
him just learning the trappings of being a mayor because
like the conversation he had with his campaign consultant,
and the chief of staff and just, you know, they
(57:21):
were, you know, the whole
optics and, and of it all and just
thinking, you know, as far as, him trying
to go straight and, and, and,
and just
figuring, you know, and the whole conversation.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:39):
You know who he reminded me of? Especially
in the second episode? He reminded me of
our good old friend Oswald.
>> Will (57:47):
Yes, yes, yes. I was getting
the whole time.
>> Sarah (57:52):
Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking about how
the fact that at the end of Penguin,
it's about Oswald getting into political
power and how Fisk is
like, Fisk is the MCU version
of that. I mean, granted, Oswald has an
Oedipus complex and short syndrome,
(58:14):
and then Kingpin is like a huge
monster beast. but,
but it was, it, it was interesting that both
of them have this
parallel journey of
rising from the up the
ranks in the criminal world and then setting their
sights on so much more.
(58:36):
the, the bigger political game. Like,
like politics is very similar to
crime, let's just be honest. And, and I
think that's why the, the, the comic
book writers were able to set that
trajectory for some of these iconic villains.
>> Will (58:55):
For sure. Yeah, yeah, that's a, that, that
the. I, I, I was as I was watching the episode. I'm glad you m. Brought
up Penguin because I was getting that same vibe as
well, with, with the
aesthetic and also just the the Fisk in
particular. you know, and also just a real, particular real
world person too. But won't go there. But,
Yeah, but yeah, you're not shy.
>> Sarah (59:17):
About that at all.
>> Will (59:18):
Not at all. Not at all. But, yeah,
but can we.
>> Sarah (59:22):
Well, let's, let's go back to, to what you've
mentioned before about the the framing of
White Tiger. Because what,
What I really enjoyed was that there was
a mention. Not only a mention, because
they mentioned a lot of other New York
vigilantes crime fighters
in the first episode, but they more.
(59:45):
More specifically showed an image of White
Tiger and then never spoken about
again. Right?
>> Will (59:51):
Nope. Right.
>> Sarah (59:52):
Fast forward into episode
two and, and we see this
guy who's trying to separate
these two and then next thing you know,
he throws someone in front of a train. Okay.
It just happens. Okay. It happens to the best of
us. And then, and then we. Cherry
discovers the White Tiger outfit. I can
(01:00:14):
appreciate, like we didn't
need. There. There
was. There was either you got it
or. And you understood it just like Cherry did or
you didn't like there. And
I appreciate that. I don't. I don't feel
like they dumbed any of that
down. and I also like the fact
(01:00:36):
that Cherry is introduced in the very
first episode in the bar
and he's talking about the vigilantes because
he's a cop. And he at the
end of that sequence discovers Matt
being Daredevil and
one year later, just who he has
become to Matt.
>> Will (01:00:58):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:01:00):
and as the investigator
as it just. I, I really
appreciate that quick and
seamless relationship
development for the viewer.
Yeah, especially a new
relationship and even ah, what's
her name? Chris. Christine.
>> Will (01:01:21):
Yeah, the other lawyer.
>> Sarah (01:01:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. yeah. And. And even the
girlfriend, who. Who is now doing
marriage counseling for the fist. I mean, God help
her. God help
her.
>> Will (01:01:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's the other part. So I did like
too, especially like in episode. Episode two with
the With When Matt was defending,
White, Tiger and And just the, the
legal tactics that were going on as far as.
Because I know that was one of the things too that they were. They
were said they were going to highlight in, in
(01:01:57):
this continuation of the, of the show,
which is, you know, what, what is, you know,
Matt, you know, Matt is an attorney and, and you know,
and also, you know, whereas before, you
know, he, you know, one year prior
to all this, he was, you know, fighting with his fist. Now
he's, he is fighting a system
(01:02:18):
and protecting people, you know, with his. With
his legal skills and other things like that.
So I really liked. I like to sort of the pivot
that they made there as. As well with, you know, showing,
you know, showing Matt defend. You know, now
defending the potential, you know, another
vigilante, you know, given that he is
hung up. The cow.
>> Sarah (01:02:40):
Well, yeah. And that.
>> Will (01:02:42):
Well, and he says, you know, he suspected something more
was going on. So, you know, to your point,
you know. Yeah, I think whenever Cherry was looking around the
house, you know, it.
>> Sarah (01:02:52):
Just, you know, it didn't add up. Yeah. Like,
Matt has very good instincts,
and a sense of, hearing.
But I like that idea about
justice. And that's really what they're delving
into this season is,
Because now he's a.
(01:03:12):
Arguably a victim of
injustice. I mean, he was.
That's where the statement was going. And then Karen walked
in. But this. What I found
amusing about the, the Hector
of it all and the conversation,
the legal conversation, where
(01:03:32):
Matt gets his first quote, unquote victory of the.
Of the series and, and
manages that, like, says,
okay, we can. We can't talk about him being White
Tiger. It's just prejudice. I.
I just like. And I think at one point,
he. He wasn't holding the mystical
stone. We'll
(01:03:54):
say that for us. To us. Not only does
he say it with a straight face, everyone
reacts like, oh, well. Well,
yeah, it's like
just the. Yeah. We are in, We are in this
world. This is an MCU world. These things have
happened. Aliens have hit this earth. Yeah. It's New
(01:04:15):
York City. Aliens has been there, like,
forever. but it's just. It's
so funny. But I also just this.
This theme which
has led over from the original three
seasons about that the
difference between not only a
hero and, or superhero and a
(01:04:38):
vigilante, but also an anti
hero.
>> Will (01:04:41):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:04:42):
Because in an anti hero, we get more
from when. Once Punisher
arrives. which, I'm sorry, Disney plus work on
your freaking marketing. I don't want to hear
any monologues from John
Barnthal until I watch the show.
Okay, stop playing
these. I. I swear to God, I'm so
(01:05:04):
angry at them. And then I like how I have the. The
subscription where ads play
and they're playing ads for Daredevil. I'm like, I'm. I'm
watching it. Like, why are you telling.
Trying to sell me on a show I'm watching. It makes no
sense.
>> Will (01:05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of. Speaking of Punisher, did you did you notice the
punisher tattoo on the cop that at the end episode
two?
>> Sarah (01:05:25):
Yes. And from what I understand that means he is a dirty
cop. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, he's a dirty cop. And
like they're, they're. I I.
Okay, let's get into the final scene. So the final
scene is, is
Matt chasing down Nikki
(01:05:46):
who is the only witness
to prove that Hector did not
actually kill this
detective, this police officer who was
undercover. and, and
quickly after he finds Nikki. So do
the, the NYPD who are out to,
to get them and then, This is the
(01:06:08):
best fight sequence we've gotten. Oh
yeah, this, this was
so good. And this was really like. Yes.
The, like this scene. If
we can go back to that original question about the edge.
Did they retain the edge at. And
the violence. And it wasn't violent for the sake
(01:06:29):
of being violence. There's a clear difference.
Go watch an episode of the Boys and then come
back very
different. And, and I love the boys, but
sometimes they go too far. But the
edit just, it was so
well choreographed. I remember
(01:06:49):
when we were watching Echo and we
saw we, we Daredevil
scene and I told you like this
choreo is Daredevil Choreo. Like
I don't know who they have on it,
but the, the hand to hand combat is
just so well choreographed.
(01:07:09):
It's, it's great. And,
and also, and I want to hear your thoughts on
this because I've, I, I found it very. And a
very interesting observation.
>> Will (01:07:20):
Sure.
>> Sarah (01:07:21):
when he, when Matt is on the floor
and the gun is pointed to his head,
who is he saying don't do
this to? Is he saying don't do
this to the, the
police officer or is he saying don't do this
to himself?
>> Will (01:07:41):
He's talking. I took it as he was talking to himself.
>> Sarah (01:07:43):
Okay. Interesting. Okay.
That. Wow. I, I should have. For
some reason I was thinking it was the other
guy.
>> Will (01:07:56):
Yeah. And I guess.
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I guess the reason why I fault
that was just thinking back to the first episode.
And, and, and, and, and you know,
trying to turn over a new leaf and
he, you know, he just,
you know, he really, he's really trying to get past that life. And
(01:08:17):
then especially when his reaction at the end
really just doubled down. Doubled down for me that he
was just like. I got, I'm you know, I'm trying
to not go down his path again and,
and, and here we are.
>> Sarah (01:08:30):
Well, it's more fix was
right.
>> Will (01:08:34):
Yeah. That, well, that's yeah, yeah, thanks. To
clarify.
>> Sarah (01:08:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's that I, I, that
moment of him screaming. I was like,
yes. End scene moving, like,
that's it. We don't need anything else. We don't need a
montage or anything because
I, I don't know.
His fingerprints are all over the place.
>> Will (01:08:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:09:00):
Blood. He clearly killed those guys.
Like, I,
it's, and, and the fact he's already
rep, he's representing a,
A, an accused cop
killer. Only for him to have just killed two
cops. I get it, I get it.
Self defense, arguably. But, but at the same
(01:09:22):
time, like, it. I do
appreciate, an ending
of, of an episode of television in this
genre where I'm like, okay, well, how do they
get out of that? They, they better have a good way.
I know they're going to. But, but how do
you, how do you clean that up? You get Cherry on the phone
right away.
>> Will (01:09:43):
Yeah, yeah, Jerry, you're, yeah,
get here now.
>> Sarah (01:09:47):
Get here now and bring some. I don't know.
So we, we got, we got some bodies to get rid of.
>> Will (01:09:53):
We got, yeah, we got, we got, we got some
bodies to get rid of. We got some fingerprints to, like, clean
up. Yeah, we got, we got, we gotta, we gotta make this place
clean.
>> Sarah (01:10:02):
Yeah, but, and, and,
yeah, it just, I, I really
like how,
I mean, let's, okay. To kind of
close it out. You have the opening
of the first episode
with. And him. In that moment, right
(01:10:23):
after, like, Foggy dies, he
tosses Bullseye off the
roof, Right?
>> Will (01:10:30):
Yep, Yep.
>> Sarah (01:10:31):
FYI, I still don't know why Bullseye's alive, but
whatever. and, and in
that moment, like, that was out of pain,
grief and sadness.
And so it'll be
interesting to kind of
understand. Okay,
so, so what's the self
(01:10:52):
justification at the end of episode,
two, you just killed two people.
so, so, and I get it. Like, they're the
bad guys, but at the same time, they are people and
you're supposedly a hero. So,
like, like, I, I, I think, think why
it works so well. On top of everything
(01:11:14):
we've, we've just gone through with that scene
is the, the fact that they are also
proving Fisk is not
entirely wrong about his assessment of
Daredevil and Matt
Murdock.
>> Will (01:11:28):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:11:30):
Which, which we love a villain who
can be right some of the time
because that makes them more menacing. Missing. We don't
want a stupid villain.
>> Will (01:11:41):
No, no, not at all. Yeah,
so, yeah, that's, that's a very good point. And
yeah, you know, I I. Whenever this
episode ended, I was like, okay, I'm ready. I. I
am, I am ready for. For the next
episode because, and
because of what you just shared there and. And
(01:12:02):
also, you know, it also, you know,
Matt's, you know, he's, you know, he's also very religious and everything else too.
So there's so many things that in that
moment, whenever he was, you know, at that point, he was just trying to fight
for survival. But, But you're right. You know
what. Yeah, part of it was just, you
know, part of that motivation was to fight.
Just, you know, I gotta live. And.
>> Sarah (01:12:23):
Yeah, and.
>> Will (01:12:24):
But. But then at the same time, you know, he.
He like, went over that line, and, you
know, definitely kill one, maybe two people
there and then, like. Yeah. So it.
It's gonna be. As
the season progresses, I. I'm looking forward to
just sort of seeing how the two of
(01:12:45):
them, both fiscal and. And Matt,
you know, how that Donner conversation plays out
as far as these two. Two people's true
natures,
show themselves over the course of the series.
>> Sarah (01:13:00):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. And
we will continue this conversation next
week and resume our
invincible discussion as well.
and so until then, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:13:16):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at. Ah, Will and
Pope. W I L L M M P.
>> Sarah (01:13:21):
O L K. You can find me there too, at SJ
Belmont S J B L M O N T. Please follow
our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter, at
Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at
Scene Underscore N Nerd, and Visit our
website,
www.scenenerdpodcast.com.
(01:13:42):
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night.
Geek out. You're welcome.
Greetings nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont,
and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you
doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:07):
Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well. Happy
March.
>> Sarah (00:11):
Happy March. Happy. Women's History
Month.
>> Will (00:15):
Yeah. Yeah. We, It is Women's History
Month and I, look forward to
something we started during Black History Month was we
started doing some profiles and with notable
folks in the entertainment industry and
also with the
way I was acting, directing in front of the camera, behind the
(00:36):
camera. So I found a couple,
to start off this month. I found some of
the early days of filmmaking, some
filmmakers, who wanted to profile
this week. And the first one is Alice Key
Block. she was a fridge. the
world's. The world's first female
(00:57):
director. She was actually born in Paris in
1873. And she
was She started in the film business as a secretary
to the Gamon Film Company. But
over just being a part of the
around the business and stuff, she was
very interested in. And it got inspiration
(01:17):
from a cinema graph from the Lumiere
Brothers. And she urged a boss of her company
to let her use a camera
to make a movie of her own. And so she
actually created one of the first narrative films called
La Fe, which was
translated to cabbage fairy in 1896. And
(01:37):
it was one of 700 films made under that,
the studio Gamond's name. But she also
developed techniques like split screen matching sound to
film. And eventually And she also
created the Close Up. So she eventually moved
to New York and created her own studios,
that was called Select Studios and it was
(01:58):
one of the largest ones before Hollywood
really, you know, really took
over the industry and stuff. So But, yeah,
that was. That was one filmmaker I wanted to
profile. And then a second one was Margaret,
Booth. And she was was one of the first
film editors. And she
worked on the film Birth of a Nation, which I think many people
(02:21):
are familiar with about from D.W. griffith. That was
in 1915. and then she just continued
to work her way up in the studio system and she did
receive an Oscar nomination for Mutiny M on the
Bounty, the 1935 film. So those
are just a couple profiles wanted to share this week before we
dive into paradise and.
And Daredevil.
>> Sarah (02:43):
Awesome. very cool. what did
you have any takeaways from the Oscars?
>> Will (02:49):
honestly, you know, I. Honestly not really. I
Didn't, watch Charlie, the films this year
or this past? This past year. I, I
know a lot of folks are disappointed that, to me, Moore did not
win for the, the Substance. I know you watched that one, but.
>> Sarah (03:04):
Honestly, I haven't seen the
Substance.
>> Will (03:07):
Oh, I thought you did.
>> Sarah (03:08):
Oh, no, no.
>> Will (03:09):
Oh, I thought. Oh, was it a Nora that you watched? Which one was
it?
>> Sarah (03:13):
No, I didn't watch either of those. I watched
the Timothy Chalamet one. That's, oh, that's My
mom dragged me to.
>> Will (03:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I was working my way to that one. Yeah.
yeah, I knew you watched one of the films. yeah. But, I thought for
what some reason, I know we talked about the Substance, so maybe that's why
I thought you'll watch that one too.
>> Sarah (03:30):
Yeah.
>> Will (03:31):
Big into body horror.
>> Sarah (03:33):
I, I, I was, I was questioning
why it was for Golden Globes nominated
under comedy. and musical.
Interesting. We're stretching dark humor. I mean, we've
always stretched dark humor, but still, still, it's just
like. Yeah, yeah, I,
it's because I, I,
(03:55):
I tend not to watch movies as much
these days. Amora is on my list, though, of
something once it becomes reasonably priced
to rent or it goes on a streaming service I'm
about to put on and just check it out because I
have heard good things. I think it's,
it's the curse of. Well, once you're a
(04:15):
winner and the fact that you won, like, the major
categories, you swept them, suddenly
everyone starts to not like you.
>> Will (04:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:24):
You're no longer. Yeah, you're no longer the
under the dog that you once were.
>> Will (04:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:31):
My God. But, but also
all of the controversy
surrounding the competitors,
I, I kind of figured it was gonna go that way, and
I kind of, I kind of figured. For
some reason I
knew, I, I had a feeling that
Timothy, Timothy wasn't gonna win. and
(04:54):
Adrian was gonna take it. and,
and, and that's, that's what happened.
Just. And, and having seen a complete
unknown, I, he's
good. He's not great.
I know in, his, I think it was the SAG
Actor award he won. He mentioned in a speech how
(05:15):
he's on the path for greatness. And I, I
understand that, and I can see that in the works, that
the projects he's choosing to do and all of
that, but that was
not the role.
That was not. Because all anyone will compare you
to is Joaquin Phoenix in.
(05:36):
And that's a very hard act to
follow. and it's Arguably a much more interesting story
than a complete unknown. So.
Yeah, it, I, I again
did not follow as much. I did. I did.
I always, watch Kieran
Culkin's speeches because they're hilarious. And I
(05:56):
love how, his wife really told. Said that
out loud. And he has witnesses that if, they'd
try for four, as long as he won an
Oscar.
>> Will (06:07):
Well, there you go.
>> Sarah (06:08):
Yeah, he won the Emmy. And he was like, well, now.
Now we're gonna try for three. And apparently
that same night she said, well, we'll go for
four if you win an Oscar. And then the next year he
did, so. Wow.
>> Will (06:21):
Wow. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, really, I
guess, really the only thing I did watch as
far as far as nominated films,
I did watch Wallace. I finally did watch Wallace and Gromit,
Avengers, Most Foul, which was nominated in the,
animated, category, which I did see that, flow.
Won that one. But. But
(06:42):
beyond. Yeah, so beyond that, you
know, I was going to try to watch Wicked, but like, you,
when I, When I went to Amazon to, to rent it, it
was still, you know, know, very,
very like, I'll just wait. I'll just wait
till it comes down or goes to get on
the normal. Get to a normal stream, you
(07:02):
know, or there's a.
>> Sarah (07:05):
Something. Because those, those
renting prices, you're just like, might as well
buy it. M. I could. I could have gone to the
theater. I don't understand here,
like, exactly. It's so
bizarre. But. But I think they want you
to buy it. So they're gonna have high. And the fact
(07:25):
that they're being released, being available
on those services, granted
for a fee, like such a short
time after they were in theaters. I mean,
remember in the years of Blockbuster, you had
to wait a good six, four months
until you could. And. And all of that.
(07:46):
So. But,
I, I keep. I can't. For the last few
weeks, I kept wanting to bring up this show,
but kept forgetting until right after we
stopped recording. But I did
recently get into the show on Paramount plus
called School, Spirits.
>> Will (08:05):
Yeah, I've heard about the show. Haven't watched it, but
yeah, I don't.
>> Sarah (08:10):
Think it's your type of show.
And, And I just say that knowing. Well,
I, I think it's a good show. I mean, it kept
me on. I binged the first season.
the second season at that time had already started and then
I got caught up and it just wrapped its second
season yesterday. And it's funny,
(08:32):
When I was watching the finale this morning, I was thinking to
myself, I'm like this is the last episode.
How are they gonna go to season three? I'm not sure.
But they, they figured out a way very
cleverly, albeit I kind of figured that was
gonna happen.
and, and it's surpr. I think why
I got hooked is because I started
(08:55):
watching it by just having it on in the
background. because to get through those first
two episodes of studying the premise of this
girl who's dead and, and
finds herself kind of in a limbo
at her school where she died among
other ghosts who have died
at that same school.
(09:17):
There's there that's just this
surface iceberg
plot explanation, about the
show not going into so many details. and
then I started finding myself paying
gradually as episodes went on more and more
attention to things because they did a very good
job about. Because
(09:40):
her best friend who's still alive can see
her. There's kind of a link
and you see through her
and these other ghosts the
morning of the. The loss
of, of youth and And also
like that grief of their own like un
(10:01):
unfulfilled life
versus also the grief of
those they leave behind. and
so when they started tapping into that I, I
got it piqued my interest and they did some very
good through the, the people who
are alive versus dead. Very good
(10:21):
parallels that were going on.
So Yeah, I would. I was surprised
that I, I found myself
as engaged in that.
And. And arguably season two is just as good
as season one. So there wasn't like a drop
off or anything or it didn't get significantly
(10:42):
better. But, but yeah,
I, I think it's a, it's a decent
show to, to binge get caught up
on or even to wait until it's over and then binge
the whole thing because I really don't know how many
seasons it's got in it. I don't know.
>> Will (11:01):
Fair enough, fair enough. I Yeah. As far
as other shows that I, I finally did start
Reacher season three and And
it's like. It's very good. It's very good. I'm about. I'm
a still. Still gotta watch week
five. But I've watched up to week four and really
have enjoyed it. you know it's, it is what
(11:21):
it is. I mean you know that definitely, you know we jokingly
call it dad TV and it's definitely not.
But but the, the
overall storyline, and the issues
that he is getting into, this
season. Is. It is. It's good.
It really is good. And I swear, Alan Richton, each. Each
season, he gets larger.
(11:44):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:44):
Yeah, that. I. I did see
some. Some interviews with him and. And stuff,
and I would agree with that.
>> Will (11:54):
And there's a dude in the show this season that's even bigger
than him, and it's just like, okay, yeah, yeah.
But, But yeah, it's great. I mean, if you're a fan
of. Fan of Reacher, I would
say, you'll enjoy this
season. And. And I think over. Actually, I
think it's off to a better start than. Than
last season's, to be honest. But, But yeah,
(12:16):
but, it is good. And, continue. We'll continue
to stay on that, dad. Tv. Bob. there.
>> Sarah (12:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Alan, Richter
apparently would enjoy hearing you say it's better than
season two because he was not happy with season.
What. I understand. And I'm like.
I'm like, thank you for being honest.
Yeah.
>> Will (12:39):
That's one thing I do appreciate about him. He is all.
He is very candid and very honest. whenever you see him
on interviews and podcasts and stuff.
>> Sarah (12:47):
Yeah. Ah, that one with Michael Rosenbom, like,
wow. Y. All right, well, that
brings us to the big topic tonight.
the Paradise Season one
finale. The man who Kept the
Secrets. Xavier and Robinson race
to find President Bradford's m. Murderer
before it's too late.
(13:10):
All right, well, what did you think about this finale?
>> Will (13:13):
I loved it. I. I really did it.
this show, really, it.
All the. All the clues, all the
breadcrumbs, even down to the cheesy fries. I've
shared it before that there's nothing that
is like a throwaway in this, In this
show. And to
me, it delivered. Even.
(13:36):
Even with. When we do find out the
one mystery as far as who murdered Cal,
the other part, I felt, But part of me felt like
that was by the end of the season.
That was sort of a secondary mystery to the. To the
primary one, in my opinion, as far as, like, what
was. What. What. What. When. Especially after we get
(13:57):
the episode with whenever, President
Bradford does find a tablet and starts, you know,
keeping the journals and putting all the pieces together.
That. That was, to me, like the bigger.
Bigger thing that was going on here. But, But
yeah, I really. Yes, it was. You know, it was definitely a
different change of pace with,
you know, given how how intense and everything
(14:19):
episode seven was. But
I. I was fine with how
this episode ended
and And I'm glad that, you know, of course, we do
know that there is a season two that's
coming. And, so I'm glad that we don't end,
you know, with the cliffhanger, with. With an
unresolved story.
>> Sarah (14:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I. I have to be
very careful with how I say this
and articulate this because I don't want there to be
confusion because I have seen a lot of reactions to this
season finale. I am
not mad that it was the Librarian. I have
(15:03):
no, like, the motivation. It makes sense.
I can tell you the exact scene,
the exact moment where
I suddenly was like, oh,
I don't like this. And
it came where it started to
become too contrite, and the.
(15:24):
The episode lost me. and it
was the moment when he had
already knocked out Xavier and was
telling him the story. the story that just
went on and on and on. And as it went
on, it started to lose me more and
more and more. Not because,
(15:45):
like, well, if we were paying
attention, we would have recognized.
We could have potentially recognized him because we
had seen the shooter in the first episode,
but it was more like, as soon as
he started, I was like, why didn't it take you three
years? And so the
(16:05):
exact moment when it really. I was like, I.
I don't. I don't think this was the right move
is the moment when he explained
why, Like, I appreciated the
explanation of why he, How he got comfortable
and how he felt like he deserved. Like, that made
sense. But the moment he said. And
(16:25):
then. And they show the
flashback where Cal's in his robe
walking into the library and
just asking him where the music stuff,
suddenly that triggered some ptsd.
It just. That just
that bothered me. and.
And it didn't get any better because
(16:48):
even, like, it just.
It just annoyed me that all we
got for the explanation why, at
that random night when it just so
happened that the cameras were off and
that all, like, everything started
becoming way too. Oh, well,
(17:08):
that's. That's a, a
MacGuffin or a shortcut or
just a simplistic way to explain,
like. And the scene,
this. The way that the scene of the
attack, the piano music, it just
didn't hit for me. And then at the end with
Xavier and Samantha, at no point
(17:30):
did I think Presley was dead. At no
point was I like, oh, I
like, the stakes weren't there for me,
probably because I knew there was going to be a Season two.
There was. So I
just. I. I understand. And I'm Glad it
worked for you.
>> Will (17:50):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (17:50):
But from that point forward
I was just like okay. And I'm not
saying it was a bad finale.
I have critiques and
it's more, I didn't like the pacing.
I've seen worse. Let's be honest, we've seen
a lot worse. But it, it
(18:10):
also just there were things
that like I just, it
didn't, it felt too contrite.
I have more complaints but I'll let you
add in some good thoughts.
>> Will (18:24):
Yeah, no, I, I, I mean you know I've
seen the complaints about
being a librarian or anti climatic or
And so, so
what, what made it work for me
was again the setup.
>> Sarah (18:42):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:42):
And, and especially because
it ah was really. I ah guess it just really
got into the larger
theme. Some of the larger themes that we've seen
throughout this season.
With, with you know again and
you know with you know these workers who will
(19:04):
never get the benefit of being able to
but you know get the benefit of if and when this incident
does occur, which obviously it found it
does, they will be left out.
And, and, and, and and it gets
to like for example but
for Xavier being on the President's detail,
(19:25):
he wouldn't have got in and, and,
and, and what's so special about you know obviously you know you
got the the billionaire. So for me it was just
overall larger themes that like
really made the motivation and then also just
the relationship that Trent built
with all the other workers so that such
that whenever they do discover the
(19:47):
toxin and and,
and and everything it
just, it was very
believable for him to, to do,
to, to be the, the killer. And, and it
made sense too. Just I think overall I
like the fact that they went, they zigged instead of zagged
because you know all along you know we both were like
(20:09):
very spiraling. I had the crazy, you know I had to, I
was on, on the train of it was a power play by
Sinatra. That's why she was trying to like
you know she was the motivation behind it and
stuff. So I appreciated the fact that they went in the direction
that they did tying it to the some of the
more larger themes that that the show was, was
(20:29):
exploring throughout you know, throughout the
season.
>> Sarah (20:33):
Yeah, I, I, I, I agree to an
extent. Like the, the, the setup
of Trent makes sense and I
completely enjoyed the
how it connected to the have and the have
nots. And it just goes back to last
week and the FBI or
(20:54):
the Secret Service agent who Xavier is like saying
Go here, do this, do that. As soon as they are
about to get on the helicopter, he's like, oh, no, no, you
stay here. And it's just,
it's that same idea of m. Like, well, why do you
get. Why am I. I'm supposed to.
Like, this is my job too. It's,
(21:14):
it's a very uncomfortable and unsettling
thing. However,
and, and maybe this is just because
with the difference of, of our history with
the showrunner, they, they
use the same composer from this as us. And
it's very clear because I was distracted during that
(21:35):
whole opening,
opening stuff because that
score is so reminiscent of. This
is a score. Oh, my God, it's
uncanny. And I was just like,
why, why, why, why are you, why are
you choosing this, to
go? Like, I. It's a very, It's a very
(21:56):
interesting association that I've never
really had it. It would be like if
they took a score from Star wars
and, like, played it over top, and you're just
like, this isn't the same world.
It's not. Why are you. This is
weird. Or, or even Star Trek. Like,
(22:18):
suddenly you're watching something and, and you hear.
And you're just like, wait a second. What?
So I, I, I, know it's the same
composer, but I'm like, dude, you're good.
Why are you pulling from that?
that, that case, that box is closed.
Okay, so,
(22:39):
so, and, and I
completely. Like, again, I'm not mad it was
the librarian, because I wanted it
to. They were
not. Like, nobody could predict. Nobody
could really. You had
to be really looking in order
to see it. You really had to, like, go frame
(23:02):
by frame. And so I applaud them for all
that. I just don't appreciate
the lack of motivation for why it took
three years for him to finish the job.
M. That's it. That's like, like the one
thing. Yeah.
Like, that day, like, there was.
(23:23):
There. There just seemed to be it. So
it was so. It felt so random. It was like,
okay, so then one day you just woke up on the wrong
side of the bed and went and murdered someone. Cool. Cool.
Cool.
>> Will (23:35):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that,
that, yeah. And I, I get. I can totally see
that. And I, I, and I. And I think that's a fair, fair
criticism. that. But, But I think that. I think that's the
whole. I think that's the, the point, though. I think
it is the random, the randomness of it that,
you know, he's gotten very comfortable here and
(23:56):
then just you know, but just one day,
it, it just, you know, that, that.
That feeling of just thinking about
Adam and, and, and everything,
and it just. He just snapped
and. And he, decided that was the
data. I'm going to finish the job that I didn't
(24:17):
do years, you know, years
earlier.
>> Sarah (24:20):
Yeah, because, I mean, if he had, also really
been studying this world, he
would have figured out that Sinatra is actually the one he should have
gone and killed, not Cal.
>> Will (24:31):
Yeah, well, there's that too.
>> Sarah (24:32):
Yeah. Yeah. That, that wasn't. That's another thing where
it's just like, again, it's just that
length of time. That length of time. That's a very
long time, arguably. So.
>> Will (24:44):
Yeah, yeah. And, yeah,
and, you know, you know, I felt too just like
with the, with the play, on
the, the title and, and also just
in the fact that Peter Lawford, was.
Was married to a Kennedy, you know, he was Bobby Kennedy's
and JFK's, brother in law.
So, you know, so I, you know, so I was trying, you
(25:06):
know, so whenever, When I saw
that title and, and thinking about, you know, the book
in the library and stuff, and of course he,
Whenever Bradford was trying
to, you know, make the mixtape and stuff, you know, it, it
just, I think that's, you know, again, it's just the
randomness of Assassin, you know, Assassins, because, you know,
(25:28):
you do have, you know, you have that Kennedy tie
there too. And I may be reaching there, but it was just something that was
just, you know, just kind of daunt. It just kind of struck me,
that, you know, that we, that we. We had
had those, Those themes in there as well.
And also Kane, you know, you know, pulling out
the Rat Pack reference to, to, you know, with
(25:49):
nicknaming everyone way back in the, you know, episode one or
two. So, you know, that was, you know, it was just. It was
all those, like I said, all, all those little things throughout
each. To this point is
what for me, I think, to your fair,
fair points there, I think it was just the
payoff, I think, because it's just so. It's not
every day you get a series that just pays
(26:11):
off those types of
breadcrumbs that they, they sprinkle throughout the season
and, and not only where they're
used, but they're used so well. So I thought it was just the
execution of it that was really, just really,
got me. And then even to the point where
whenever Sinatra and Jane were having
(26:33):
a text conversation about, about Presley
Yeah. You know, because Jane is. You know, they did such
a. Such a good job of just,
like, creating this, like, psychopath
with. With Jane and. And being the
enforcer that I,
you know, I, like, I was. I was react. I reacted
so. So much when the text messages are going so much my
(26:55):
w. She like, she had gone upstairs and she, like,
checked on me just like, are you okay? I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just watching
paradise, so.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:05):
So they got you hook, line and sinker.
>> Will (27:07):
Yeah, they were. Yeah, I was just. I was just
completely, like, bought into this.
>> Sarah (27:12):
We would have seen stuff. We would have
seen stuff. There's no way, like, it
just, Yeah, they. The way that
whole exchange went down, I. I
couldn't believe. I was like, no, this.
She ain't gonna do anything for Presley because she's not gonna get the
Wii. So she. She, like, she's
(27:32):
smart. I don't think. I.
I wouldn't say necessarily that they did a great
job about building Jane as an
enforcer. They.
My whole thought while watching the
Jane part of this episode unfolding
is just thinking back at all the times
Will brought up on the podcast about how
(27:53):
Gabriella is the wild card. And I'm like,
she. He should have been talking about Jane.
Nothing. Jane's wild card.
>> Will (28:04):
Yeah, but. Yeah, now, I mean, it would benefit
a hindsight, but also, Well, because.
Yeah, because of what happened in this episode. Janie's clearly the wild card,
but.
>> Sarah (28:13):
Well, but he also killed Billy.
Yeah, she. That.
That is. That's my point. I think
that. I don't think it's
necessarily that they did a good job building her as an
enforcer. They did a good job
about utilizing her
early enough. So you have that
(28:35):
notation that she's working for Sinatra,
then putting her on the sidelines and then
circling back to her while at the
same time leaving a
character to further flesh out in a
later season. Yeah, yeah,
because. And. And that's the
kind of leads into why,
(28:58):
part of this whole Sinatra, Jane
and Xavier and Presley,
that didn't. The stakes weren't there for
me just because they had spent this
whole season and even in this
episode, it's like Sinatra being a monster
and this and that. And I've been on the defendant,
(29:20):
Samantha.
>> Will (29:21):
okay, you've been the Matt Burdock
for sure.
>> Sarah (29:25):
Like it was. It's interesting. She, She did.
She. It was clear to me
that she didn't want something bad
happened to Presley. She didn't. She didn't want that.
She needed the leverage to get what she
wanted. But she's a mother of her
own, so it wouldn't
(29:45):
seem right, considering what we're
led to believe about this idea of paradise stemming
from the death of her own son. Like. Like,
there's something. And. And it just left me
with this question, especially with her interactions with,
Gabriella at the beginning and towards the end of this
episode is. There's this,
(30:06):
like, this constant. Like, you don't know what I've done. I've
done horrible things, and I'm a monster and all this stuff.
And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so, yeah,
technically, you sent Jane to kill Billy, but
we understand why. I don't know if that makes you a
monster. Technically.
Yeah, yeah. You, You. You had
(30:26):
Billy kill those. Those other people.
Is that the only thing? Like,
I. That's where I'm kind of,
like, from what we've
learned, those are the two things
that she's done. I mean, yes, she was a part of the
creation of paradise. So to Trent's
point, paradise was built on the
(30:49):
graves of people,
but she. She was one of many. I
mean, Cal's dad is also at, fault there, and so
is that the architect, and so is
Gabriella.
>> Will (31:01):
So.
>> Sarah (31:01):
But. But my point being,
I just. Towards the end, they kept saying
that to, where I'm just thinking, the math ain't
math. Then for me, I need to
understand. I feel like there should be something
more, and yet I don't know if there is.
>> Will (31:19):
Yeah, well, I. I agree with you that you were
vindicated in the. In the. That she's not a complete
monster when, you know. Yeah, she was trying
to use Presley as. As leverage. But at
the end of the day, she, you know, she. She did try
to. She did text Jane and be like, look, you know,
stop. You know, stand down, you know,
but. And then. And then with the whole. Over the whole thing with
(31:42):
the Wii and, you know, you know, call
it. Are you crazy? You know, you don't call a crazy
because.
>> Sarah (31:49):
So, yeah, yeah. I mean, as soon as
Jane fired, and stepped into focus,
I even said her line out loud.
Like, two minutes before she said it. I was like, I should have given
her the weight like
you should have. And. And I will say,
because I always have to call it out like, this
(32:10):
has nothing to do. My criticism about the
stakes in that. That scene between
Sinatra and Xavier has nothing to do with the performances because
the performance is spot on. Yeah.
>> Will (32:21):
Yeah. And honestly, the performances, actually,
they're so spot on and is so well acted. And
that I think it covers
over some of the things that we're, that
we're discussing tonight, quite frankly.
>> Sarah (32:35):
For Will, not for me because they stuck out like a
Thor. Yeah.
>> Will (32:42):
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree.
I mean, yeah, there are. If you, if you do stop. I mean,
hell, I was just thinking last week with the with, with Xavier
and not with the cell phone. I was just like,
wait a minute, you know this, you're. You're a secret Service agent. There's thing.
You know, there's a thing called a gets card that will
allow for you to like get over. You know, get
(33:03):
a, get a telephone line. So. Yeah, so I mean
I could like nitpick like that kind of stuff for sure.
>> Sarah (33:08):
But yeah, I had about
those kind of things. So.
>> Will (33:13):
Yeah, so I mean, but, yeah, but But that being
said, yeah, speaking
of, this just with this episode and Trent
and also Maggie with the I did like the. I did like
how when the and
Robinson were, you know, what Rob.
The. You know, obviously the Robbie was day
(33:34):
drinking and the Robinson went over to like help
out and stuff. So I did like the way that they
figured out that, that she persuaded her
to like look at the files and, and they figured out
that at least while the Trent was
being expository on with Xavier, they just used good
old fashioned storytelling and sleuthing to figure out that Maggie
(33:54):
was. Shouldn't have been in there either. With, with the.
When they looked at the records and realized that
the person who should have been there had a peanut
allergy. which again was this a great use to like pulling the
cheese fries back into like what, what, what?
>> Sarah (34:08):
You know what was
crazy was there was a scene
like five, five to ten minutes before that
whole thing unfolded where
they, it was like they were speaking to the public,
like, stay in your houses or something like that. And there was a
shot of the diner and the girls there eating cheese
fries. I swear, I swear to
(34:30):
God, I thought in my
head while watching that moment and looking
at that actress eat those cheese fries. I'm
like, how did you get into paradise?
Randomly thought. And it was
nothing. I was just like, how, how. What was
the selection process for some of these people?
>> Will (34:51):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (34:53):
See it's, it's funny you bring that up
because as much as I did appreciate
the whole like girl tag team and the
day drinking all that. What.
And this is where the episode like, would I
say it, it's contrary. Like,
like they, they figure that out at the same
amount of time while Xavier is,
(35:16):
like, at the. Going back to the.
The, bedroom and retracing all the
steps and finding the mixtape that. I
want to know how long Cal's been dead because,
man, poor Jeremy, he could have had that mixtape the
whole time. Whatever. It's a side
note, but. And then it takes them, what. I
want to know how long exactly to find,
(35:38):
like, the. That nut allergy
within, like, 25,000. Is it
25, 000 files? Like, there's some
conveniences where I'm just like, oh,
my God.
So. But, my
favorite part of this episode, and my
(35:58):
favorite line of this episode, of course it comes from
Cal, is you are the things you
love. And if that's the case, then you are
me. Jeremy, if you don't like this world that
I built, that fixed it.
I really appreciate that
ending because of
the. The. Another iconic moment
(36:21):
that happens earlier in the season between the
grandfather, the grandson, and the
dead father. Like, the
way they have, subtly
dealt with grief in that
complicated dynamic.
and. And you've seen the parallels between
(36:44):
father and son and father and son.
Again, like. Like, the. The
execution of that was so good. And I
didn't really see that coming until at
the end. And then he looks up and he sees all these people
walking towards him that, like, yeah, Jeremy,
whether he likes it or not, he is his father's
son. And so a lot of the
(37:06):
reason why Cal was able
to go as far as he did in
politics. Yeah. Yeah, he has a rich daddy,
but it's because of that charm that he explains
to Xavier in the pilot episode. And I think
Jeremy has some of that. And I'll be at
probably a better head on his shoulders, so.
(37:27):
So. And a better moral compass. So I like
how. I can appreciate how
we knew Xavier was gonna eventually leave
and go and find Terry, but I like how
they still opened some.
Some doors for stories to still be
told at paradise as well. While.
(37:47):
While, For some reason Xavier has to go
alone. I don't. I. I don't understand that part,
but he has to go alone. And, I'm not saying he
should take the kids. That's not what I'm saying at all. But he does
have other friends.
>> Will (38:00):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:02):
So. So I. I just.
That sets up a season where you're gonna be
getting Xavier on his journey while
paradise is.
Is figuring out things
on their own and. And leaves more,
doors.
>> Will (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
For sure. Yeah. I did like. I did, like,
with. With Xavier, You know,
bringing back the whole hard
decision that he made with his father to
have, Him you mandatorily,
retired. and. And also
to bringing up the fact that again,
(38:43):
Xavier, is a palate himself. And as you know, it was that tension between
him and his father. Like why, you know. You know, his dad wanted him to sort of, you
know, be it. Be a good outline. But
Xavier, I think is. I think his eyesight was.
Was bad if I recall. Which, Why he
couldn't. Why he couldn't be, Couldn't. Couldn't go that route. But
I mean, but he still was able to get his pilot's license.
(39:03):
But But yeah, I just really
liked how they pull that back again from earlier in
the season. And. And of course, you know, I
think
Xavier's still, you know, feeling that he
feels comfortable going alone. and I
agree he probably should have had someone go with him, but. But at the same time
(39:23):
also feels comfortable leaving the kids back. And. And
Because you know, at least from his sense of. Of
things, everything is in paradise. It's the
safest place for him to be right now. and. And
also just he, you know, I think he.
Presley that. I thought that was a good moment between the two
of them whenever he was looking. Sitting there at the table, looking at the book
(39:44):
and you know, seeing that all the notes that
Kyle left behind, as far as the
With the map and. And shout out to the Dewey Decimal
System. Yeah, because I know we
were all like thinking, you know, we. We thought it was like a.
Probably registration for a plane or something like that. Never,
never thought that it was like. It was like,
(40:04):
you know, the Dewey. The Dewey decimal card
for the For the, you know, code for the For the book there in the
library. Which I thought was another great touch.
But But yeah, like I said, I mean, I think you're right. It
definitely with Jeremy's story, you know,
given that Sinatra is still alive, there
and And also the other characters
(40:24):
that Are still there in paradise,
you know, in the bunker will you know, definitely will
next season. We'll, you know, get to
To. To two parallel stories maybe and
hope hopefully they'll figure out some ways too to have some
flashbacks to To. To Cal and
Billy too. Because I mean James Marston was
(40:45):
just. Just great in this. In this show and hopefully
we can see some more of him and Maybe you know, especially
if Kane is still there. So maybe it may be some things with his dad.
As far as we just learn more about. Especially, since
they introduced, you
know, the. The making of this
bunker, and there's still some stories and stuff
that. That they can, you know.
>> Sarah (41:07):
Yeah, there are a lot of stories to be
mined.
>> Will (41:10):
yeah, so. So,
yeah, we know there's three seasons. Fogelman,
did say that, you know, season two has been.
Is done.
>> Sarah (41:21):
It's been confirmed. And.
>> Will (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's confirmed, though the show is
that it's written because he actually. He's like. He's like us
where we. He's like, I'm a TV viewer
too, and I don't want long breaks in between
seasons. So, I think he mentioned an article
deadline that they're planning, on starting
production in about. About a month or so.
So it's very, you know, so with the goals having
(41:45):
season two come back in early 2026. So,
so hopefully they will be able to stay on that schedule.
>> Sarah (41:53):
All right, well, that brings us to
Daredevil. Born Again,
season one, Heaven's Half
Hour. Long time ravels. Matt Murdock on Wilson
Fisk attempt to move past their darker
Personas to serve New York, but their
past resurface, reintroducing the world of
Daredevil, which. And actually, this
(42:15):
episode can easily be summed up, in a toast that
is made during the opening scene,
which says to Cherry, may
you be in heaven a full half hour before the devil knows
you're dead.
Will, what did you think about this episode?
>> Will (42:34):
So what did I think about this
episode? So I will. You know, it's
well known that I, was. I did
not watch the, They
only watched a handful of the Netflix shows. but it
was very accessible for me, and I really. I
have to say, I really, really liked it. I really did.
I, you know, we. We. We've seen. Even though,
(42:57):
you know, the show has been. It's a continuation of the
Netflix series, not. Not a reboot or
anything. And. And we've
seen both Fisk and. And Matt, in
the mcu. I mean, you know, we've got them in Spider man
and. And, King and, Echo.
She, Hulk. Yep. Hawkeye.
So we've. We've seen, you know, we've seen the
(43:18):
characters. And so I, you know,
so I went into it like, okay,
I. I appreciated the fact that
even though I didn't. I'm not like you who has the,
you know, deep ties with this show from.
You know, I. I was able. I was like, okay,
I could fill in And I was, I was able
(43:40):
to, I enjoyed it. You know, they set things
up and, and it did it in a, in a way
that was interesting
and and I really, really
got, you know, at the end of episode one,
the, the scene there in a diner. But Fisk and
Murdoch was everything I needed. Okay. I'm like, I'm on
board.
>> Sarah (44:00):
Yeah. Yeah. The I
mean the, this first episode,
really the best parts is it's, it's
their book ended perfectly because you have
the opening, I think people have said it's
a 15 minute long scene.
>> Will (44:17):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (44:17):
Open where you have, you're re
introduced and it is fully a continuation. I mean
you have, you have Foggy, you
have Karen and you have
Matt hanging out at Josie's
and, and life is normal until
next thing you know it's not.
And it turned out to be a setup
(44:40):
and, and Bullseye kills kills
Foggy. And you, you go
through and it has the,
I can appreciate how they were like, oh, we're,
we're making sure people know this is a continuation. So we're
gonna do a lot of one like
long shots, a lot of fighting
(45:01):
in narrow spaces and, and
going up stairways. And back
when the show was on Netflix,
and I was covering it up, it was
funny to me I guess when they, when they got to the
roof because about half, like
when season two of Daredevil starts,
(45:21):
there's, there's a pretty iconic moment with
Punisher and which led to some
comments about how like, well, they're
talking Daredevil because they're always talking about people being on
roofs. I swear to
God, in the Netflix Netflix
Defender universe, I
mean the amount of times you will, you will
(45:43):
spend on rooftops, whether it's your heroes or
your bad guys. And it's just like if you ever go to New York
City, just always be looking up.
Okay. Always
look up. but, but yeah, I,
I, I think the, just the
execution of that
and, and, and no need
(46:05):
to explain to anyone or feel like
you have to explain why
that death is so,
so harmful for the psyche of Matt
Murdock. And and the,
and it sparks, it has
for it pushes him to
(46:27):
retreat unlike anything else that could
happen. and, and
he does hang it up and we
one year later we get re endorsed
reintroduced to Matt Murdock
and, and things are going fine
until, until somebody else
returns from the shadows. And that would
(46:49):
be Fisk. But yeah, that scene, the,
the diner scene, it's just because
I'm Glad we got them speaking
within the first episode.
>> Will (47:00):
Y.
>> Sarah (47:01):
And then to have a full blown one on
one conversation. And also just
perfect representation for why these
two are ideal foils for one
another in terms of. And
just the, the. You know, I love.
I prefer more of a verbal sparring than a
physical sparring. Sparring. Like the
(47:23):
verbal sparring just was
so great. I couldn't keep up with all of the
lines. I mean. And then at the end you
have. Fisk is like, I will not
tolerate men running around in silly
costumes. And then he's like, I love a man who can
rise above their nature. Good luck with that.
>> Will (47:45):
And also throughout the red meat too, that you know, you know,
call. What to call out the Spider man too. Because again, just the
acknowledgment meant that, you know, with the historic
other foil of Wilson Fisk
with Spider man too. So yeah, that was, that
was Chef's kiss as far as that moment and for me
as well. And you know, another thing too, like I said, I don't have the
(48:05):
history with the show like you do and the relationships with
Karen and Foggy and Matt, but
yeah, it was. I'm glad
just to get back, just take it out of universe and get into
production universe for a moment. You know, there was a
lot of discussions about this show and, and
Feige and a team realizing that, you know, and a
(48:26):
lot of fans were worried that when it was going to go into Disney plus that it
was going to lose its edge. And. And I would like
to hear your thoughts of whether or not it is lost
as edge and there's only two episodes. But,
but your familiarity with it I would like to hear.
But I'm glad that they went the route that they did.
Scrapped whatever they had originally shot use
(48:46):
recycled what they could have and then brought back
Karen and Deborah annual. And. And
the actor plays Foggy because that
all that was the right creative decision to go
to make this show work for. For people like
me who, who are probably, you know,
familiar with Daredevil Matt more so from
seeing them m. In the mcu and also just. And people.
(49:09):
And you're listening to people like you talk about it,
the, The Netflix show. I mean I watched some of the. I did
watch some of the other Netflix shows as far as,
Jessica Jones and, And Luke Cage.
But but yeah, I, I thought that was definitely from
a. From a storytelling standpoint and I. As
soon as Foggy, when he, you know, whenever he had the little
nod, what was the Line. I'm paraphrasing here,
(49:32):
but, you know, acknowledge the, the, you know,
the past. But, looking for. Looking, you know, look to the future or, you
know, that's a scent it was right.
>> Sarah (49:39):
Whenever they were talking about.
>> Will (49:42):
Yeah. Nostalgia.
>> Sarah (49:44):
Nostalgia is a reference to the past and hope for the
future.
>> Will (49:47):
Future. Yeah. When you said that, I was like, I was like, oh,
he's dead.
>> Sarah (49:53):
So, I didn't expect
anyone to die in that scene. But as it went
on and, and clearly when he got
shot, so. And I'm sure
comic book nerds are going to come after me for saying this,
but. And I, and I'm not a comic book nerd. I've
never read the books. But from what I understand, because
this was brought up back when
(50:15):
Daredevil first premiered on Netflix
about this run this series, and
I believe it's called Born Again. And the
whole premise is that
Bullseye was given an order from
Fisk to kill Karen.
So, so when, when, When Foggy
(50:35):
went down, I actually was like, oh, God,
Karen, they're gonna do it. This is why,
this is why at the beginning,
when casting announcements, like I remember you telling
me, yeah, Foggy's. Foggy's gonna return for Daredevil.
And I'm like, well, Karen has to come.
Yeah. And then. Yeah,
(50:56):
yeah. And then. Well, no, there was a delay. I
remember this. Like, I feel like even
Bernthal was announced before Karen was. There
was a delay, but now I'm starting to figure out,
like, Karen's gonna have a bigger part and they could still do
this. They could very well. I mean, seasons two already
been greenlit that, that they actually
(51:16):
reserve that Karen's death to the end
because we all know
I'm all, I'm not, I'm not a Matt. Karen person. I
may. I met Karen and Frank person,
so, so do not Disney
plus Feige, if you
do not allow me some sort of closure for
(51:36):
this romantic entanglement,
this thing that never was,
I will turn off my subscription or at least
suspend it for a month.
Okay. Okay. But
anyways, so, so going
into it, especially when I figured out it was
(51:57):
Bullseye who was attacking, I was like,
okay, okay, I,
I, I get it. to
go back to your original question about the
whole, does it still retain an edge?
Not fully. Not fully. I
could, I could definitely tell,
especially the Korri there. There was some weird
(52:19):
CGI happening at moments during that
opening sequence there.
There's some interesting editing
choices just because, I mean, we're two
episodes in. It's Hard for me to tell if I'm
okay with it or not. I don't like the long
shots. It felt like there were a lot of long shots. It
(52:40):
felt like there were a few very
extended, montages
and just a lot of time of like us
standing on a roof with, with Fisk
looking down. And I'm like, when will
this sequence end? We get
it.
(53:01):
Like, I'm like. I'm like. It went on long enough. I could think
to myself, okay, so are we gonna get
a wide shot where he clearly is looking
at Matt? Because Matt's looking
up. So bizarre. I
just. So I,
and I. And I think it will never have that
(53:22):
same edge because part of the reason why
Daredevil season one, the
reaction was, is because it was
very fresh. And
albeit this is. I mean it's been 10
years and based on
recent Mar. MCU
television Ah, series, this is fresh and
(53:44):
different. But it's
also. It's in because of where it
comes from. It's never going to be like as fresh.
If that makes sense.
>> Will (53:54):
Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Sarah (53:56):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't, I don't.
As long as you have Charlie Cox as Matt
Murdock and Vincent D'Onofaro
as Fisk. Like,
that's, that's, that's. That's what you need. Okay. And then you
got Bernthal come in as, as
Punisher. Like the casting
(54:17):
is really on point with this.
And, Yeah.
And, and. And so as we talked about,
or I think we mentioned that one point,
Fisk. M. Fisk's whole
part is. Is very similar where.
Because we watched Echo, albeit we forgot about
(54:38):
Echo, but we did watch it at one point in time.
We do know that Fisk has been out of commission
for a while because Echo put him in
his place. Children these
days.
Yeah. And. And so he comes back
only for. For Vanessa
(54:59):
to. To be Queen Bee and. And there be
some trouble in paradise for them.
and. And then we. And he.
He. Because he found
peace or something, clarity, he wants
to go legit. I. So to
move along to episode two optics.
(55:19):
Yeah, I, I find it
while watching it. I found both episodes
because I watched them both back to back same.
I, I found the second
episode to be interesting how
both of these characters are.
They are trying to maintain
(55:42):
that Persona who they presented
themselves as in the diner. Right. And you
see the, you see especially with Matt because he's
our main character. The build up and the
clear like, oh, you're going a bit sideways.
Okay. And Just it's, it's like a
tea teapot kettle during the final,
sequence, which we will get there.
(56:04):
But, I really appreciated
the subtlety with Fisk
because throughout the episode
you, you're like, yeah, yeah, fill that hole.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, they
elected you mayor, not governor. So I don't
know if you have as much power as you think you do, but
you fill that hole, sir. and then
(56:26):
leading up to this weird random
venting about, about a sandwich and,
and then, and then you see him lift the paper and it's like,
oh, you're blackmailing. Okay, yeah,
Fisk. Okay.
>> Will (56:41):
Yeah. I like that whole sequence there because, especially
because you set, you know, you have everything set up with, with the police
chief and, you know, with the funeral and with,
you know, with the tiger, white,
tiger, being wrongfully accused.
But, you know, obviously, you know, you know,
NYPD B is
(57:01):
you know, thinking that, you know, he's a cop
killer. And and
so, yeah, so we get that. And then, but, but
also even I guess maybe going further back too, just
him just learning the trappings of being a mayor because
like the conversation he had with his campaign consultant,
and the chief of staff and just, you know, they
(57:21):
were, you know, the whole
optics and, and of it all and just
thinking, you know, as far as, him trying
to go straight and, and, and,
and just
figuring, you know, and the whole conversation.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:39):
You know who he reminded me of? Especially
in the second episode? He reminded me of
our good old friend Oswald.
>> Will (57:47):
Yes, yes, yes. I was getting
the whole time.
>> Sarah (57:52):
Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking about how
the fact that at the end of Penguin,
it's about Oswald getting into political
power and how Fisk is
like, Fisk is the MCU version
of that. I mean, granted, Oswald has an
Oedipus complex and short syndrome,
(58:14):
and then Kingpin is like a huge
monster beast. but,
but it was, it, it was interesting that both
of them have this
parallel journey of
rising from the up the
ranks in the criminal world and then setting their
sights on so much more.
(58:36):
the, the bigger political game. Like,
like politics is very similar to
crime, let's just be honest. And, and I
think that's why the, the, the comic
book writers were able to set that
trajectory for some of these iconic villains.
>> Will (58:55):
For sure. Yeah, yeah, that's a, that, that
the. I, I, I was as I was watching the episode. I'm glad you m. Brought
up Penguin because I was getting that same vibe as
well, with, with the
aesthetic and also just the the Fisk in
particular. you know, and also just a real, particular real
world person too. But won't go there. But,
Yeah, but yeah, you're not shy.
>> Sarah (59:17):
About that at all.
>> Will (59:18):
Not at all. Not at all. But, yeah,
but can we.
>> Sarah (59:22):
Well, let's, let's go back to, to what you've
mentioned before about the the framing of
White Tiger. Because what,
What I really enjoyed was that there was
a mention. Not only a mention, because
they mentioned a lot of other New York
vigilantes crime fighters
in the first episode, but they more.
(59:45):
More specifically showed an image of White
Tiger and then never spoken about
again. Right?
>> Will (59:51):
Nope. Right.
>> Sarah (59:52):
Fast forward into episode
two and, and we see this
guy who's trying to separate
these two and then next thing you know,
he throws someone in front of a train. Okay.
It just happens. Okay. It happens to the best of
us. And then, and then we. Cherry
discovers the White Tiger outfit. I can
(01:00:14):
appreciate, like we didn't
need. There. There
was. There was either you got it
or. And you understood it just like Cherry did or
you didn't like there. And
I appreciate that. I don't. I don't feel
like they dumbed any of that
down. and I also like the fact
(01:00:36):
that Cherry is introduced in the very
first episode in the bar
and he's talking about the vigilantes because
he's a cop. And he at the
end of that sequence discovers Matt
being Daredevil and
one year later, just who he has
become to Matt.
>> Will (01:00:58):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:01:00):
and as the investigator
as it just. I, I really
appreciate that quick and
seamless relationship
development for the viewer.
Yeah, especially a new
relationship and even ah, what's
her name? Chris. Christine.
>> Will (01:01:21):
Yeah, the other lawyer.
>> Sarah (01:01:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. yeah. And. And even the
girlfriend, who. Who is now doing
marriage counseling for the fist. I mean, God help
her. God help
her.
>> Will (01:01:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's the other part. So I did like
too, especially like in episode. Episode two with
the With When Matt was defending,
White, Tiger and And just the, the
legal tactics that were going on as far as.
Because I know that was one of the things too that they were. They
were said they were going to highlight in, in
(01:01:57):
this continuation of the, of the show,
which is, you know, what, what is, you know,
Matt, you know, Matt is an attorney and, and you know,
and also, you know, whereas before, you
know, he, you know, one year prior
to all this, he was, you know, fighting with his fist. Now
he's, he is fighting a system
(01:02:18):
and protecting people, you know, with his. With
his legal skills and other things like that.
So I really liked. I like to sort of the pivot
that they made there as. As well with, you know, showing,
you know, showing Matt defend. You know, now
defending the potential, you know, another
vigilante, you know, given that he is
hung up. The cow.
>> Sarah (01:02:40):
Well, yeah. And that.
>> Will (01:02:42):
Well, and he says, you know, he suspected something more
was going on. So, you know, to your point,
you know. Yeah, I think whenever Cherry was looking around the
house, you know, it.
>> Sarah (01:02:52):
Just, you know, it didn't add up. Yeah. Like,
Matt has very good instincts,
and a sense of, hearing.
But I like that idea about
justice. And that's really what they're delving
into this season is,
Because now he's a.
(01:03:12):
Arguably a victim of
injustice. I mean, he was.
That's where the statement was going. And then Karen walked
in. But this. What I found
amusing about the, the Hector
of it all and the conversation,
the legal conversation, where
(01:03:32):
Matt gets his first quote, unquote victory of the.
Of the series and, and
manages that, like, says,
okay, we can. We can't talk about him being White
Tiger. It's just prejudice. I.
I just like. And I think at one point,
he. He wasn't holding the mystical
stone. We'll
(01:03:54):
say that for us. To us. Not only does
he say it with a straight face, everyone
reacts like, oh, well. Well,
yeah, it's like
just the. Yeah. We are in, We are in this
world. This is an MCU world. These things have
happened. Aliens have hit this earth. Yeah. It's New
(01:04:15):
York City. Aliens has been there, like,
forever. but it's just. It's
so funny. But I also just this.
This theme which
has led over from the original three
seasons about that the
difference between not only a
hero and, or superhero and a
(01:04:38):
vigilante, but also an anti
hero.
>> Will (01:04:41):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:04:42):
Because in an anti hero, we get more
from when. Once Punisher
arrives. which, I'm sorry, Disney plus work on
your freaking marketing. I don't want to hear
any monologues from John
Barnthal until I watch the show.
Okay, stop playing
these. I. I swear to God, I'm so
(01:05:04):
angry at them. And then I like how I have the. The
subscription where ads play
and they're playing ads for Daredevil. I'm like, I'm. I'm
watching it. Like, why are you telling.
Trying to sell me on a show I'm watching. It makes no
sense.
>> Will (01:05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of. Speaking of Punisher, did you did you notice the
punisher tattoo on the cop that at the end episode
two?
>> Sarah (01:05:25):
Yes. And from what I understand that means he is a dirty
cop. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, he's a dirty cop. And
like they're, they're. I I.
Okay, let's get into the final scene. So the final
scene is, is
Matt chasing down Nikki
(01:05:46):
who is the only witness
to prove that Hector did not
actually kill this
detective, this police officer who was
undercover. and, and
quickly after he finds Nikki. So do
the, the NYPD who are out to,
to get them and then, This is the
(01:06:08):
best fight sequence we've gotten. Oh
yeah, this, this was
so good. And this was really like. Yes.
The, like this scene. If
we can go back to that original question about the edge.
Did they retain the edge at. And
the violence. And it wasn't violent for the sake
(01:06:29):
of being violence. There's a clear difference.
Go watch an episode of the Boys and then come
back very
different. And, and I love the boys, but
sometimes they go too far. But the
edit just, it was so
well choreographed. I remember
(01:06:49):
when we were watching Echo and we
saw we, we Daredevil
scene and I told you like this
choreo is Daredevil Choreo. Like
I don't know who they have on it,
but the, the hand to hand combat is
just so well choreographed.
(01:07:09):
It's, it's great. And,
and also, and I want to hear your thoughts on
this because I've, I, I found it very. And a
very interesting observation.
>> Will (01:07:20):
Sure.
>> Sarah (01:07:21):
when he, when Matt is on the floor
and the gun is pointed to his head,
who is he saying don't do
this to? Is he saying don't do
this to the, the
police officer or is he saying don't do this
to himself?
>> Will (01:07:41):
He's talking. I took it as he was talking to himself.
>> Sarah (01:07:43):
Okay. Interesting. Okay.
That. Wow. I, I should have. For
some reason I was thinking it was the other
guy.
>> Will (01:07:56):
Yeah. And I guess.
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I guess the reason why I fault
that was just thinking back to the first episode.
And, and, and, and, and you know,
trying to turn over a new leaf and
he, you know, he just,
you know, he really, he's really trying to get past that life. And
(01:08:17):
then especially when his reaction at the end
really just doubled down. Doubled down for me that he
was just like. I got, I'm you know, I'm trying
to not go down his path again and,
and, and here we are.
>> Sarah (01:08:30):
Well, it's more fix was
right.
>> Will (01:08:34):
Yeah. That, well, that's yeah, yeah, thanks. To
clarify.
>> Sarah (01:08:37):
Yeah, yeah, it's that I, I, that
moment of him screaming. I was like,
yes. End scene moving, like,
that's it. We don't need anything else. We don't need a
montage or anything because
I, I don't know.
His fingerprints are all over the place.
>> Will (01:08:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:09:00):
Blood. He clearly killed those guys.
Like, I,
it's, and, and the fact he's already
rep, he's representing a,
A, an accused cop
killer. Only for him to have just killed two
cops. I get it, I get it.
Self defense, arguably. But, but at the same
(01:09:22):
time, like, it. I do
appreciate, an ending
of, of an episode of television in this
genre where I'm like, okay, well, how do they
get out of that? They, they better have a good way.
I know they're going to. But, but how do
you, how do you clean that up? You get Cherry on the phone
right away.
>> Will (01:09:43):
Yeah, yeah, Jerry, you're, yeah,
get here now.
>> Sarah (01:09:47):
Get here now and bring some. I don't know.
So we, we got, we got some bodies to get rid of.
>> Will (01:09:53):
We got, yeah, we got, we got, we got some
bodies to get rid of. We got some fingerprints to, like, clean
up. Yeah, we got, we got, we gotta, we gotta make this place
clean.
>> Sarah (01:10:02):
Yeah, but, and, and,
yeah, it just, I, I really
like how,
I mean, let's, okay. To kind of
close it out. You have the opening
of the first episode
with. And him. In that moment, right
(01:10:23):
after, like, Foggy dies, he
tosses Bullseye off the
roof, Right?
>> Will (01:10:30):
Yep, Yep.
>> Sarah (01:10:31):
FYI, I still don't know why Bullseye's alive, but
whatever. and, and in
that moment, like, that was out of pain,
grief and sadness.
And so it'll be
interesting to kind of
understand. Okay,
so, so what's the self
(01:10:52):
justification at the end of episode,
two, you just killed two people.
so, so, and I get it. Like, they're the
bad guys, but at the same time, they are people and
you're supposedly a hero. So,
like, like, I, I, I think, think why
it works so well. On top of everything
(01:11:14):
we've, we've just gone through with that scene
is the, the fact that they are also
proving Fisk is not
entirely wrong about his assessment of
Daredevil and Matt
Murdock.
>> Will (01:11:28):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:11:30):
Which, which we love a villain who
can be right some of the time
because that makes them more menacing. Missing. We don't
want a stupid villain.
>> Will (01:11:41):
No, no, not at all. Yeah,
so, yeah, that's, that's a very good point. And
yeah, you know, I I. Whenever this
episode ended, I was like, okay, I'm ready. I. I
am, I am ready for. For the next
episode because, and
because of what you just shared there and. And
(01:12:02):
also, you know, it also, you know,
Matt's, you know, he's, you know, he's also very religious and everything else too.
So there's so many things that in that
moment, whenever he was, you know, at that point, he was just trying to fight
for survival. But, But you're right. You know
what. Yeah, part of it was just, you
know, part of that motivation was to fight.
Just, you know, I gotta live. And.
>> Sarah (01:12:23):
Yeah, and.
>> Will (01:12:24):
But. But then at the same time, you know, he.
He like, went over that line, and, you
know, definitely kill one, maybe two people
there and then, like. Yeah. So it.
It's gonna be. As
the season progresses, I. I'm looking forward to
just sort of seeing how the two of
(01:12:45):
them, both fiscal and. And Matt,
you know, how that Donner conversation plays out
as far as these two. Two people's true
natures,
show themselves over the course of the series.
>> Sarah (01:13:00):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. And
we will continue this conversation next
week and resume our
invincible discussion as well.
and so until then, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:13:16):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at. Ah, Will and
Pope. W I L L M M P.
>> Sarah (01:13:21):
O L K. You can find me there too, at SJ
Belmont S J B L M O N T. Please follow
our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter, at
Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at
Scene Underscore N Nerd, and Visit our
website,
www.scenenerdpodcast.com.
(01:13:42):
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night.
Geek out. You're welcome.
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