37. Crafting your personal style with fashion & interiors journalist Sarah Macken

Interior designer & host Tanya Neufeld Flanagan interviews fashion and interiors journalist Sarah Macken (aka @ohegartysarah) about personal style, its evolution, and the intersection of fashion and interiors.

 

They discuss the importance of authenticity in style, the tools available for developing a personal aesthetic, and the impact of social media on fashion choices.

 

Sarah shares her journey from fashion intern to editor and freelancer, emphasizing the significance of understanding one's preferences and the influence of various cultural elements on personal style. The discussion also touches on navigating trends, the language of interiors, and the joy of creating unique spaces.

 

Some key takeaways:

• Personal style evolves over time and is influenced by experiences.
• The three-word method can help distill personal style into practical, aspirational, and emotional descriptors.
• Social media can create pressure to conform to trends, but authenticity is key.
• Exploring various forms of art can enhance personal style and interior design.
• It's important to assess whether purchases align with personal style rather than trends.
• Finding unique pieces can be a rewarding process, especially in local markets.
• Balancing personal style with trends requires thoughtful consideration and experimentation.
• The language of interiors is less defined than fashion, allowing for more instinctive choices.
• Creating joyful spaces can be achieved through small, thoughtful purchases.
• Minimalism can be overused; it's essential to question if it truly resonates with personal taste.

Follow Sarah @ohegartysarah on Instagram

Follow Tanya and the podcast at @tanyaneufeldflanagan and @theinteriorspodcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:23):
Welcome back to another episode of the interiors podcast.
Today I have a special guest with us.
We're not having your typical renovator.
We have interiors and fashion writer, Sarah Mackin, who you might also know as OheggertySarah from Instagram.
Sarah is a bit of a fashion influencer here in Ireland.
And I'm really excited to have her on to talk about personal style.

(00:45):
Welcome.
Hello.
How are you?
I'm good.
So, Sarah, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
I've enjoyed following your Instagram for a few years And I know primarily you are afashion and tiers writer, but did this career start?
I started out way back when in magazines, I cut my teeth.
It was 2011, 2012.

(01:07):
I started out as a fashion intern.
I interned in Ireland and then I went to New York and kind of had the whole Devil WearsPrada intern experience over there, which was challenging.
To it in polite terms, to paint the picture like it was peak girl boss era.
This would have been before, the row had an intern see them in the

(01:28):
2010s.
So yeah, it would have been around that time.
It was very intense.
like all of the mean girl cliches you could imagine.
I didn't love that.
I gave it all up, to be quite honest.
I didn't agree with how elitist it was in terms of fashion or just the general that youhad to be mean to people all the time.

(01:49):
That doesn't fit with my ethos.
And I think at the time I was quite disappointed that I didn't go over there and
quote unquote, like get discovered and stay forever.
You yeah.
It's also like the Hills, Whitney Port being in the city, like the whole Kelly Cotroneera.
So, you know, everyone wants to be there doing all that thing.
But it was tough.
Kelly Cotrone brought out that book around then.
What was it?
If you want to cry, please go outside.

(02:09):
I'm paraphrasing.
that was the time.
I very much.
thought about just being like, maybe this isn't for me.
Maybe I'll just go and work in a book shop because that's more my vibe.
I'm a bit of an introvert.
So, I came back to Dublin then and I soon found my set of nice people over here.
And I started interning in a magazine and actually got hired and then worked my way up andbecame the editor of that publication, which was a really nice full circle moment.

(02:34):
It was Irish Tatler magazine.
And I edited that for a couple of years.
was an interesting time for fashion as well because it was changing a lot.
It was becoming a lot more democratized, It was the whole era of street style coming in,that pre Instagram kind of thing where people start seeking out reality and real life

(02:55):
aesthetic.
Yeah, so it wasn't so much that I was flying around the world telling people that, youknow, florals for spring are very boring.
It was more like eating my lunch at my desk.
But it was super creative and definitely went away towards me, building and cultivating myown sense of personal style.
Yeah, awesome.
And now you are a freelancer, right?

(03:16):
Yeah, I went freelance during the pandemic and I still write about fashion.
I'm a contributing editor at the Gloss Magazine, which is with the Irish Times.
And I also write about interiors for the Sunday Times and then contribute to publicationslike Image, Stylist, Refinery29, the Irish Times.
So I get to write about fashion and interiors nearly every day, which is really nice.

(03:38):
The dream.
Yeah, totally the dream.
And to me, there is such a common thread between them and
Maybe that's just me because I have my head buried in all of these things all the time.
But I do think there is quite a crossover, particularly now more so than before.
think we've reached the peak fashion interiors lifestyle kind of blend at the moment.
Yeah, for sure.

(03:58):
Especially with Instagram and Pinterest and the lifestyle influencer, which is like goesfrom giving mom advice to showing her new rug.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just funny because when you're trained as a journalist, which is what I was trainedas and what I do, you're very much, it's the opposite.
You know, you're not Jack of all trades and master of none.

(04:18):
You were trained to be in your area and be a specialist in that area, know your stuff.
you would be kind of very hesitant to talk about something or write about something thatwouldn't be that your specialty.
Nowadays, it's the complete opposite which is good and bad.
what I like about it is that I love following people for an essence rather than aparticular category like fashion or home.

(04:40):
person that interests you, who you think is a, interesting person or a quote unquote coolperson,
you'll be as interested to see the top they just bought as, the vase of flowers they'vejust put on their table or the book they're in.
Or the hotel, like the hotel they've gone to.
I love that when you follow people whose like style you like and you're like, Ooh, thathotel in Copenhagen, you know?
you get a real sense of curated recommendations of other things you might like that theylike.

(05:05):
A hundred percent, yeah.
Yeah.
I want to get to how you ended up writing about interiors, but first, tell us a little bitabout how did your personal style evolve?
You were obviously interested in it from the beginning, because you went and interned atthe fashion magazines.
Where do you think you started out?
And now you seem quite comfortable in your own style, How did you get to that point?
And how do you think people who maybe don't feel like, I don't have really that sense ofstyle, how can they

(05:29):
finesse it to get to something authentic that they enjoy.
I definitely think my relationship with fashion has changed.
I feel like I have a good grip on my personal style now, but I don't know if that wasnecessarily always the case.
I've been working in the industry for probably 15 years now and I've gone through phaseswhere I definitely dress like a fashion person,

(05:51):
referencing whatever trend was in at the time, including those that didn't flatter me ormy shape of have much relation to my sense of style.
Now it was never in too much of an extreme, but when I look back, I can definitely seethat.
I did work for a while as a personal shopper in Topshop before I trained as a journalistand
it was in the Topshop heyday as well.

(06:13):
when the Kate Moss collections had just come out, and it was my job to guide peoplethrough how to navigate trends
without falling prey to them.
And I really learned a lot about some hallmarks of my personal style that I've always kindof stayed true to, whether it's something like a great pair of jeans, a print that is
classic, but not too busy, like leopard print or, a floral.

(06:35):
So I've seen those now thread through my look I do always gravitate towards those things.
nowadays I do think I really like to wear what I feel good in.
But it's always evolving.
And I think when your job sometimes involves Instagram, there can be a bit of struggle ofthat with that too.
know, social media does make everything so performative still.
Even if we are in this age of more reality in, the aesthetic online, I still think.

(07:00):
there is a level of consciousness that you have If you think you're going to getphotographed in something or take your photo in something as opposed to if you were just
in your house and nobody was seeing you.
it's hard not to get sucked into
that. But I do think I've evolved over the
years. And probably the thing that unites my style is that it's, a high low thatjuxtaposition of casual
polished. I've always been influenced by Scandinavian style, particularly Danish style,because it's a bit more

(07:26):
They look dressy and they look amazing, but they're casual.
I was at Copenhagen Fashion Week in the summer and I wore flip-flops to dinner but it waswith the tailored suit, so that's the way they dress.
It's that juxtaposition.
that kind of tension between those opposing things is where fashion gets interesting forme.
I love French style.
Obviously that whole laissez-faire attitude, which I love.

(07:49):
I probably don't embrace as much black as, as my main color palette.
I remember reading before how, some great style person in Paris was saying that the worsttransgression when it comes to getting dressed in Paris is looking like you've made too
much effort.
It's like the biggest offense.
Yeah.
And, I don't buy into those extremes per se, but I do agree with that sentiment.

(08:09):
I would always prefer to be
probably the most underdressed person in the room than the most overdressed.
One's provided I felt like myself, are some things that I just will always feel good inthat, to some people might be quite casual.
Like I love a crew neck jumper, but I love wearing it maybe with a pop of red lipstickand, you know, jewelry.
So it is casual for some people, but.

(08:30):
that's what I feel good in.
So there is a bit of a thread through those things.
I'm probably influenced as well by Californian style.
even though I don't expressly dress like that, a part of my soul belongs to some beachsurfer community somewhere.
You've got the hair, the hair.
My husband is a music producer and I've
managed to watch a lot of music documentaries over the years, but I love those subculturesand seeing how they infiltrate fashion.

(08:57):
my advice for people who, want to develop that, there's ways of doing it that maybe you'realready doing it, consciously or unconsciously.
I think we have a lot of great tools at our disposal now, whether it's, saved folders onInstagram, Pinterest, there are a lot of great accounts out there now that will offer
those, really step-by-step instructions on how to do that.

(09:18):
Like save the outfits you loved last year that you wore the most take note of the thingsthat are the common denominators through them, or equally just save a folder of
outfits from other people that you love and actually have them on hand, you know, when youare buying things or when you're browsing online or if you go out, say with a personal
shopper.
And then, it's become so democratized that there are so many ways to explore your personalstyle.

(09:41):
you don't even have to go to the traditional route of going to personal shopping oranything like that, even though I do think they're great.
there's people like Alison Bornstein, the stylist in the US.
She has the three word methods.
Yeah, yeah.
was just listening to a podcast interview with her and a friend of mine was interviewingher on her podcast.
It's called, the podcast is called News Flash, like News Flash.

(10:03):
And she was interviewing Alice on that and they talk through the three word method.
and I've been thinking about how people can do that for interiors, which is why we'retalking today.
yeah, well...
Basically anyone who's listening, she kind of says like to help distill your personalstyle, you choose three adjectives, and then you use that kind of as criteria for

(10:24):
everything you buy and wear, right?
So yeah, the idea is that you choose three adjectives.
One is practical, one is aspirational, one is emotional that encapsulates the way you wantto show up in the world.
So that could be fashion or it be interiors.
in terms of interiors, you could think of something like colorful mid-century comfortable.
it's not to say that you have to hold up every

(10:45):
home accessory the next time you go out to Zara home and go, does this meet the criteria?
But you could do that if that helps.
But I think also even looking back at the things that you have bought, you might see likethat narrative that goes between everything that you're like, all of those pieces do share
those qualities.

(11:06):
even though you didn't necessarily consciously know it at the time.
I would gravitate towards things very quickly when I shop.
I have quite a few jerk reactions.
I'll either love it or I'll not like it.
It won't be for me.
I rarely have to ponder about things.
it was actually really helpful for me because I hadn't thought of it before and I wasusing it to even look back over certain things and go, yeah, that is right.

(11:27):
That does.
ring true to what I've bought previously.
it's a really interesting way to examine whether it's your wardrobe or your interiors I'mnot saying that I'm an impulse buyer either.
I actually am quite the opposite.
I really deliberate over what I buy.
I stopped buying from fast fashion, whether it was fashion or interiors during thepandemic.

(11:48):
It wasn't really even a conscious decision, but it was just kind of as a result of thecrazy time we were in.
taking that break really did make me reassess what I want to buy, why I want to buy it andwhy it works for me, which is kind of the third part that sometimes we forget about too.
We might like it on other people, but does it for you or, your wardrobe or your home?

(12:08):
Absolutely.
I think that's the last piece is figuring out what you feel comfortable in usually.
means figuring out what works for your body type and your lifestyle, you know, cause youmight love a pair of these ballet slippers that the sole is leather, but then it's your
lifestyle is walking 10,000 steps in town every day and you live in Dublin, your feet arejust gonna be like gray mulch.

(12:29):
the way that translates to interiors is understanding how to translate your style to your
your architecture, the kind of the body type is, is an analogous, to the architecture ofyour home and making sure your interior style is translated to suit that or like whatever
you're being drawn to, whether it's a trend or, you want to update something making sureyou are reinterpreting in a way that works for your home.

(12:54):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think the idea of personal style is really interesting because I think we live in atime right now where there's never been more discussion about personal style, probably as
a reaction to this phenomenon that is algorithm dressing, where we're all dressing thesame, you look around, it's identikit fashion.
And you could ask yourself, am I dressing for the algorithm in the exact same way youcould question, am I

(13:19):
decorating for the algorithm as well, have all these pieces that I've seen on thesevarious accounts of people online just permeated my subconscious.
And is that why I'm purchasing them or am I purchasing them because I actually really likethem?
And sometimes it's both and that's great.
Happy days.
But it is good to take stock of that too, I think.
Yeah, absolutely.

(13:39):
So have you done the three word exercise yourself?
And would you be willing to share your words?
Will I make them up now?
I have.
I mean, if one that was practical is probably comfort.
And I think that's the kind of effortlessness, that's Scandinavian.
It's sort of like loose.
A lot of the things you wear are kind of loose and give that kind of like slowiness.

(14:02):
It would probably be something like undone 70s comfort or something like that.
That's probably not 100 % correct.
But on the spot, would be.
something like that, an effortlessness, effortless, crisp, 70s, maybe something in thattrifecta.
I think there's a prettiness thing, which I was watching your interview where they didyour closet confidential thing that you have on YouTube and she talks about pretty and I

(14:31):
see that with like the polka dots or like the frill, like it's just this like little retroladylike flair.
Yeah, it's funny because I would never describe myself as ladylike, but I think
there is a softness maybe that permeates what I wear.
And particularly in the home, mean, I do love a ruffle.
I think I gravitate towards a soft color palette.

(14:53):
I love pale pinks, pale blues.
Like a lot of my living room I'm just looking around is like there's light blue, there'speach, there's pink.
But then again, going back to the whole contrast thing, I love kind of
clashing that with like a shock of maybe a tangerine orange or an almost like deepburgundy that's a black.

(15:13):
I started gardening during the pandemic and it took me a while, probably took me about twoor three seasons to actually realize, yes, you do need a color palette when you garden.
At the start, I was kind of, it was just a bit of a free for all and.
I was just kind of picking things out ad hoc, then, yeah, I did realize that was prettymuch my palette for the garden too.
And that was helpful.

(15:34):
Yeah.
Realizing that.
So you what?
You've mentioned the gardening and you also mentioned watching those music documentaries.
And I think one of the ways that you can build a more authentic personal style or interiorstyle or to develop any creative side better, exploring other forms of art will
always help create something a little more interesting.

(15:54):
So like you probably choosing and curating and learning about different flowers, youwatching these cool music documentaries probably brought in things that you loved that you
pair together that otherwise you would have never kind of found those ingredients.
A hundred percent.
And when I started out in fashion, I was massively influenced by vintage.
I would spend my weekends going to this teeny charity shop called Ritzy Rags, which waslike down.

(16:19):
near King Street, kind of beyond O'Connell Street on the north side.
And I loved buying things in charity shops.
look, it was a budgetary thing as well.
I was just out of being a student, but also it was an aesthetic thing at the time.
Like vintage was huge and particularly interesting and everyone wanted to feel like theyweren't a carbon copy of somebody else.
Everybody wanted to feel like

(16:40):
they had this sense of authenticity and that they were putting a personal spin.
Even if they were still dressing in a mainstream look, was like, I have a vintage bread ontea instead of buying the Topshop bread on tea right off the rack.
And, I may not have realized it back then and I was probably going for it for like thecool kudos, but also that vintage bread on top was way better made.

(17:01):
was a hundred percent cotton.
It had been like, it had been washed, and still held up, after.
20, 30 years.
it was also an appreciation of fabrics not to digress too much, but one of the ways that Iget huge inspiration is from TV and film.
One of my favorite things is perving on interiors in movies.

(17:21):
And I will fully, tolerate an average film if the aesthetic of the film is.
going to fulfill in some way.
I've fallen down a kind of 90s rabbit hole at the moment, which I think is, you know, alsogoing on a bit online.
But like I was recently watching Indecent Proposal and like Demi Moore and Woody Harrelsonand the interiors and that are amazing.

(17:42):
know, he, the is meant to be an architect, but like Notting Hill I was watching recently.
Yeah.
Anything with Diane Keaton.
took the words out of my mouth.
Everyone loves Nancy Mayer's that whole aesthetic.
I would say if you're growing tired of that, maybe investigate like a Parker Posey in the90s moment.
She's a great one.
She does a lot of cool films that involve, you know, a really great sense of personalstyle and people can relate to her right now because she's on the white lotus, but she's

(18:10):
been in films like she was in, You've Got Mail.
Obviously a great Nora Ephron one.
And then she was also in
a great movie called, Party Girl.
Where she wants to be a librarian, but she also she lives in New York and is a party girl,as the name suggests.
She's basically like an it girl and she goes to these incredible parties in these amazingvintage outfits.

(18:31):
And if you are looking to develop and hone your personal style, look around.
look outside of your Instagram feed, maybe you take your style from a heroine in a book.
I mean, there's some amazing literary heroines with great style, was recently reading areally great book that I would never have gravitated to before, but the way that the
author
described the interiors and this 1940s house in the British countryside was just, it wasenthralling and it kept me going and it kept me so interested in the story.

(19:00):
So look outside, look to music, who's the band you love?
Who were the people you loved growing up as a kid who had that influence on you in yourformative years?
They're all hallmarks that will direct, they're like signposts that will direct you backto your personal style rather than necessarily
seeking it from an external reference, like whoever's got the most followers.

(19:22):
Yeah.
And tell me, how did you start to get interested in interiors?
How did you decorate your first home?
I'd love to understand that process.
It was really a natural progression.
I think if you have an attraction to fashion, it will extend into a love of interiors.
You know, that's certainly how it was for me.
It's a love of fabrics, a love of print.

(19:43):
I think having that ready access to amazing houses and interior style on Instagramdefinitely helped and following cool people like whoever it is, whether it's Willow
Crossley, who has an amazing home and garden or, you know, the British designer, MatildaGoad, you know,
That's definitely bolstered a lot of my inspiration and signified to me.

(20:04):
yeah, I love her style because she does, that thing.
And I also like that thing in my house.
She's the scallop queen, right?
She is, yeah.
I see a scalloped lampshade behind you.
Yeah, I love them.
That was one of the first pieces, I think, when I was living here that I really...
just was like, I'm going to invest a little bit in this.
it's, not super designer, but it's mid range in price.

(20:26):
It's not high street, but it's beautifully made.
I mean, scallops ironically now are everywhere.
They're all over the high street and they are probably a trend that's going to reach thatsaturation point and then drop off, which is interesting.
I think if someone was trying to decorate their house and avoid those things, there arecertain things you can look out for like if
there is a piece that you're seeing trickle down from a designer to the high street, then,odds are that's going to reach a saturation point.

(20:51):
But at the end of the day, if you really like it, then who the hell cares?
Sure.
Like I think a scallop, can be overly trendy and in some people's homes, it doesn't makeany sense.
But through the filter of the bit of whimsy and ladylike things we've uncovered that youlike.
It still makes sense.
Like it doesn't matter that it's on the high street because you bought it from a point ofclarity that it does still fit into your interior style and personal style.

(21:19):
Absolutely.
Like you nailed it there.
And it doesn't matter.
I have nothing against buying things on the high street.
I own a lot of things from the high street.
I buy a lot from the considered by Helen James collection in Dunn stores.
I really like the fabrics she uses there and she has a lot of stripes.
So it's not to diss the high street.
in any way, like not everyone is going to be able to buy from high end or designer ranges.

(21:40):
I think it's all about what your values are as well and what you're prioritizing.
And some people might get way more kick out of finding something in a secondhand shop downthe road.
So that's all personal to you.
I started to write a bit more about interiors.
There was definitely that bleed from fashion to interiors.
And then, I started writing a column for the Sunday Times and I've gotten to interviewamazing people whose style I admire.

(22:05):
I always sneak in a question at the end.
That's purely for my benefit of it.
So how do you source these things or where do you go for those cool knickknacks you haveon your shelf or how do you decorate your coffee table in a way that feels natural, you
know?
it's really interesting to see how people do a mix.
I think you can have all the right components, but really it's interesting to see howdifferent people will align everything, And sometimes that takes years.

(22:28):
a lot of the times when you ask people who are designers, and my interview to designerrecently, who literally said that she was like, it took me two years to find my coffee
table.
That's how I have a home that feels this way because I don't rush it wait for the rightthing.
what about your first home?
How did you approach that?
Well, I'm still living in my first home.
We rent where we are currently.

(22:50):
So there's restrictions naturally with that.
definitely it's been a transition when I first moved in.
I don't even know if it's right to say my style evolved.
I just don't know if I really had a style back then.
think.
drawn to whatever was trending.
There was a lot of rose gold.
There was a lot of palm prints, tropical prints.
God, yeah, yeah.

(23:11):
Huge indoor plant phase as well, like huge, which is ironic because now I couldn't keep anindoor plant alive probably.
have one.
More about outdoor plants now.
So that really took a while for me.
I learned the hard way.
seeing things that I would go off quite quickly.
I had to retrain my fashion brain that was in that trend zone to pause, take stock and askmyself, okay, well, what is actually working for me here?

(23:38):
What do I still want to look at?
And, after a year or after six months or after three years.
the pandemic and taking that break from purchasing,
I did purchase some things.
I wasn't like super virtuous, but definitely slowed down.
And it made me realize how much I like a slower approach to things, trying to buy less,trying to buy more from local brands, trying to buy natural fabrics, non-sympathetic

(24:03):
fabrics as much as I can in my homewares.
Also supporting designers who I really believe in, Irish brands.
So I did have almost an interlude where I could stop and reassess in a way.
And, I think that anybody can have that.
You don't have to go through a pandemic to do that.
Maybe just pausing and taking stock is interesting.
If you do find yourself like on that hamster wheel of like, have to buy this, I have tobuy that.

(24:25):
And I definitely was guilty of just, being on my phone at the end of the day on my sofa.
One eye on whatever TV show was on, the other eye on scrolling on Zara home.
and always having that payday buy at the end of the month.
That was probably not that well planned and just was because I wanted that hit, of thatpurchase.
So I've learnt the hard way that I like maybe it's more classic look, it's that kind ofBritish countryside look.

(24:52):
I like a lot of stripes.
I like classic ginghams.
I like some things to look, you know, a bit, not even older, but like, Comfortable.
Yeah.
I definitely like my house to feel lived in and it definitely needs to look comfortable.
I want to have a couch that looks like you could sink right into it, but I do also wantthe things around it to be pretty.
I just like things that you might see in-

(25:14):
a home from like 20 or 30 years ago.
I love terracotta pots.
I love, just a really, gorgeous kitchen, maybe a Victorian black and white tile on thefloor, all of those things.
it's been a journey to use that overuse word.
I've definitely come to more of a place that's a bit more balanced with it.

(25:35):
Yeah, no, but it's really refreshing to hear I made lots of mistakes and bought lots ofstuff and fell into the same trap, despite being a person who writes about style and being
up close and center with a lot of these, a lot of these trends.
And I think that's true for everyone, and like you said, it's an expensive lesson andit's, it's kind of embarrassing.
You're like, why did I buy?

(25:56):
It's like that dress that you
have in your closet and you're like, why did I ever buy that?
And in your home, it's even worse because the things are more expensive and it's not inthe back of the closet, it's staring you right in the face.
But I think they're good lessons, right?
You're like, okay, why did I buy that?
Why did I think that was me?
Why is it not me?
And what would have been a more me purchase that I am not seeing everywhere in Instagram?

(26:20):
Like, what am I actually drawn to when it comes to a table lamp, for example?
or a coffee table.
just getting a bit of clarity after you've made a few mistakes helps a lot.
As I said, we rent, so thankfully my mistakes weren't played out in things that would havebeen more irreversible.

(26:42):
I wasn't playing too much with paint colors.
We have to keep to white paint here.
I was largely dabbling in accessories and furniture bits and bobs.
So in a way that was a godsend.
There was no removing of walls.
Yeah.
I think what I do eventually own my own home.
I have taken those lessons to heart and I think I would definitely want to live in a housefor a good while before I do anything like that.

(27:06):
And I want to get the feel for it and really get the essence of it and like,
I'm the nerd who's like, yeah, that's fine about the square footage, but what way is thelight in the morning if you had like a breakfast nook for your cup of tea?
I would want to be thinking about those things.
So I would definitely be at a slower pace doing any of those more bold moves.

(27:26):
And what would be your dream kind of home based on your interior style and your personalstyle?
I mean, should I answer this in real life or in my fantasy?
What about both?
Let's have some fun.
OK, well, I'll lay out the obvious thing that there's a housing crisis rentals are so hardto even come by that it is a very strange time to be fantasizing about a home because

(27:51):
buying a home is a fantasy or it's crazy wishlist thing for people, something that islike, we're so lucky to be able to do this for for the generation now.
That was a given for the ones that have come before us.
So it's it's a very charged thing.
I think a home at the moment.
is.
Look, putting all that to the side.
my dream would obviously be I love a house that has a garden.

(28:13):
I don't mind it being a small house.
I would forsake like square footage if it was a house that had really nice bones andnothing too fancy.
Like it could be like a seventies kind of era bungalow.
It could be anything.
It could be an older house.
You know, the house I live in now was built in the nineties, but it has a really lovelyfeel to it because.

(28:33):
uniquely enough, the developer who did this whole housing estate gave me gave so muchspace for the gardens.
The garden is actually bigger than our inside of our house, which and it does have thisbecause it's a bungalow.
has this like Californian feel because it's quite open and airy.
So I'm open to a lot of things, but it would need to have some really nice light.
I'd love a bay window.

(28:53):
I want French doors
I want to be able to have a vegetable patch, a cut flower garden.
Doesn't have to be huge, but just something.
And I'd love lots of bookshelves.
a whole hallway kind of lined with bookshelves would be really cool.
I love a blue kitchen.
Ooh, blue kitchen.
Tell me more about that.
Very influenced, actually.

(29:14):
I love Lucy Williams' kitchen.
which is very contradictory to everything I've said beforehand because that is, she's aperson online and I'm very inspired by what she did there.
there's something really special about it, Yeah, so it's a bit of old, a bit of new,definitely a calmness and softness to it.
And some interesting features would be for me.
And look, if it happened to look like it was in France or California or the Britishcountryside, then happy days.

(29:39):
France, British countryside and California.
I see how the English countryside and France go together, but I think the California bitis where you're going to get like your unique twist on it.
Look, obviously I'm not picky at all.
I look forward to seeing that look develop.
I'm very intrigued.
one thing I wanted to talk about with fashion.
It's kind of a lot easier to update your look to freshen it up.

(30:02):
know, I think one of the biggest things we see this with is silhouettes and like jeanstyles, right?
So the skinny jean and then the crop.
And now it's like, exaggerated volumes.
And that's kind of an easy thing to change.
You just change a few pieces of denim out and you can still
keep wearing your favorite sweaters and your favorite shoes.
And you could get a coat out from 10 years ago and all of a sudden it's updated.

(30:26):
With interiors, I think it's a lot harder.
And even with fashion, there's always this tension of like, am I updating it or am I kindof abandoning my personal style?
How do you navigate that?
It's a really interesting question.
I think from a practical viewpoint, if you're only changing something in your home at anaccessory level, than buying a new sofa on a whim, then, you're not going to be making too

(30:51):
big a change that you can't come back from.
any expert that I interview will always advise on those kind of entry level things that
you can change that will add a sense of refresh.
But look, firstly, aren't going to break the bank and are versatile enough that you canswitch them up again if you don't like them.
whether it's cushions, whether it's, you know, hanging some new artwork on your wall.

(31:16):
also, there's a lot to be said for creating little vignettes in your house.
Like often that's what I go for.
You know, I don't actually feel great at styling things, in a house.
Sometimes when I go to style a bookcase or, you know, a sideboard, I often get caught init because sometimes if you put too much into it, it just feels contrived or a bit posed

(31:37):
and not natural.
But then sometimes it can feel a bit too empty.
I would say, take a couple of screenshots of things you like.
try and look at creating a little corner or a nook, maybe it's a lamp on your kitchencounter, to reference a cool Nancy Mayer's film, where 90s homes always had gorgeous
kitchen lamps, which is kind of nicely excessive, I think today, you don't often see that,with a vase of fresh flowers next to it and you splash out on a vase that's maybe a bit

(32:03):
out of your comfort zone, but it's a new trend you wanted to try or see how that
felt in your home.
maybe it's a decorative piece or two.
kind of building it, building that little corner.
And it's almost like your test ground as well.
You're like, well, if it suits there, maybe it's something I could expand into the room ina larger sense.
I definitely did that with stripes at the beginning.

(32:24):
Stripes are one of the things that definitely have a huge overlap from my wardrobe into myinteriors.
I started very small with that because
I'm very fickle.
I tire of, very strong patterns or very bold things quite quickly.
I could never get a tattoo for that reason.
I started out really small.
was napkins.
It grew to tablecloths.

(32:45):
my sister is really good at sewing.
So she...
was really good at getting fabric or, repurposing things like old tablecloths and makingthe cushion covers in different kinds of stripes.
But I have actually purchased a stripe sofa now.
So it has grown.
I've tested it and it has expanded in my home.
So now I know that that's something that's not a trend for me.

(33:05):
That is actually a part of my style DNA.
I think there's different ways you can do it.
you...
just need to, keep your head with it.
Don't go head to toe, to use a style equivalent in this whole new look.
And just, yeah, do it in a measured way and see how you like it.
Live with it.
See if it actually, to use that overuse phrase, sparks joy when you come into the room andsee it.

(33:30):
Or if you're like, that's bugging me.
I want to change that thing.
It's something about it.
It's not right.
You know, your gut will tell you pretty quickly.
Yeah, absolutely.
I like that idea of looking in your closet at things that are always your go-to, like yourstripes.
So what's the equivalent of that for you?
Like, do you wear lots of button-up shirts?
Do you just love a cardigan?
what are the shapes and materials that you're drawn to?

(33:53):
And how can you bring that into your home, like you said, whether it's a cushion orwhether it's the essence of that?
Like maybe you love a ruffled collar.
doesn't mean you necessarily have to have a ruffled cushion, but how do you bring some ofthat in?
You maybe it means you put a slip cover with a little skirt on an armchair.

(34:13):
And again, that doesn't have to be hugely expensive.
That could be really easy to get somebody to make for you.
And it's something, whether you're renting or it's your own home that you could take withyou or you can alter over time.
A hundred percent.
I love that.
you know, that example of the slipcover.
Ruffles are big in fashion.
They're also big in interiors.
I think that is literally something you can translate directly to your clothes.

(34:37):
I just think that that's a good way for people to do it, but I think people can get hungup on doing it too literally.
And I think that what you
you were talking about of the essence of something and it's again coming back to thosethree adjectives.
do you describe your style?
Why is it like that?
when you put those filters on in your head and you start scrolling through Instagram orPinterest, the things you were drawn to originally using those words, do they still ring

(35:00):
true?
Like let's say your, your style has like a masculine edge and you love wearing your DocMartens, but you also love to wear
like vintage dresses or something like that.
And then you look at this style that's like really modernist, like in French house maniaand apartment building.
And it's like, is that really your style?

(35:22):
Or is it just beautiful, but beautiful for someone else?
You know, because you can appreciate something and find it beautiful, but it may notactually be for you.
A hundred percent.
I agree.
And I think that's, and that's the case for fashion too, where you're like, my God, thatlooks amazing on her, but I'm five foot long personally.
And you know, sometimes I see something, my sister-in-law is six foot tall, a formermodel.

(35:45):
And I'm like, my God, I love that for her.
And then sometimes I'm like, could I?
no, don't even go there.
And I think we have to have a bit more self education on how that works for interiors.
somebody might send me something like, my God, I love this sideboard.
And it's got displayed mid-century leg that is everywhere, And I'm like, okay, that's kindof retro.

(36:06):
That's a bit funky.
And she's like, really?
I think until you start studying things, like you're decorating your home for the firsttime or you're just have decided it's time to buy something, even if it's for your rental,
you kind of have to put a little bit of effort in.
to read the language of furnishings and the language of interiors, which we all have forfashion for the most part, but we may not have for interiors until somebody points it out

(36:31):
to you.
So I think it's about watching the movies.
It's about looking at all of the different arts and culture areas.
Looking at restaurants and hotels is an amazing way to figure it out and being like,
Why is that like that?
Why did they pair this kind of tile with that kind of countertop?
And why are the floors in a herringbone and then they have this kind of curtain?
And I think that's where you can start to figure out things that go together and don't.

(36:54):
And if you need to mix and match them, doing them in an intentional way rather than buyingthe splayed leg sideboard because it's on the high street and then buying the wicker
lampshade because the
bohemian relaxed look is cool and then neither of those are you you know when i look at afriend making those decisions and having to kind of explain that to them without saying
like you're making the wrong decisions yeah you know but it's wrong for you because i knowtheir style doesn't mean it's wrong according to some ultimate fashion or interior god

(37:25):
yeah which is a good distinction to make as well
I even find writing about interiors versus writing about fashion.
With interiors, it's a lot more instinctive.
With fashion, I know the seasonal collections and I see so clearly how things, distillfrom being on the runway to being embraced by mid-range brands or the high street or other

(37:46):
designers and how things have that knock on effect.
With interiors, maybe to put it in really
different terms.
think they're just more about vibes sometimes, you know?
When I choose things or even when I choose a thing to write about, it's definitely a lotmore to do with gut instinctive, just wow, I really like that.
Wow, that has such a warm tone to it.

(38:06):
Wow, that sitting room looks so lush.
Wow, I really wish I could try.
wallpapering like, you know, the bedroom of a dorm or bungalow with a printed wallpaperthat goes from the ceiling to the floor.
don't think people think consciously of those trends as much in interiors.
there are always trends and stuff and people will comment like, did you see all thosethings are in in pennies or I was in H recently or whatever.

(38:32):
home shop it is.
There's a great H home now in Liffey Valley, I think it is.
So people will comment on those things, but I still don't think it has the same pull asDenim's back for summer.
Did you see everyone's wearing denim jackets again?
And I think they're often borrowed from an era and then that trickles down into the erafor

(38:52):
for interiors as well.
And it's cyclical too.
So you get kind of different periods going, cycling back, know?
So Art Deco is starting to become interesting again, like a hundred, it's a hundred yearsago.
And then it's like, okay, if you start looking ahead of the curve, what was going on inthe thirties other than the great depression, you know?
And what about the forties?
if you start looking ahead, you can predict

(39:14):
trends, in that way.
And being like, okay, whatever is really of right now, people are going to start to pushaway from and understanding that I think can be helpful.
So that you can you can know what is really right now.
What did I really what do I really like about what can I keep of that, like your scallop?
And what is a bit too much and not for me and not being afraid to be a bit stamy

(39:37):
I have so many turtleneck sweaters.
have so many black and white button up shirts.
And I don't care if it looks like I'm wearing the same shirt three days a week becausethey are slightly different actually.
Yeah.
And it's just what I love.
And so I think it's okay to play it safe with your staples in some way like that.
And just start to be a little more nuanced about

(40:00):
Because people are always scared, right?
They're like, what's timeless but not boring?
And do I love this because I love it or do I love it because it's trendy?
And I think the more you develop a language around that, the easier it gets.
I think it's instinctive for you because you've developed that language and that feels somuch from fashion.
I think other people are scared of falling prey to trends because it happens to them moreoften because they're not writing about style every day.

(40:24):
I would say never be afraid of being boring.
you have five Navy jumpers in your wardrobe looking right back at you, you like them for areason.
And some of the best-toned wardrobes are people who have a uniform, designers likeCarolina Herrera, she always wears a white shirt.
That is actually a hallmark of knowing your sense of style and being comfortable in it.

(40:48):
And there are things that, you'll always gravitate to And they'll be the things that willyou'll have no control over when you see them.
But you'll be like, just have to have it.
I know I have this already.
And that's, easily done, whether it's just great white t-shirts or white jeans or agorgeous linen teatel that just is the perfect
pattern on it.

(41:08):
So I would never be afraid of being boring.
If you love it, and you obviously do, if you've bought into it enough, it's never going tobe boring.
You'll wear it in a way as well that will look good on you because you'll feel at ease init and you'll style it well because you have so many of them that you'll put it together
in kind of an effortless way.

(41:28):
Yeah.
Actually going back to something you said about going to the charity shops,
For some people, they're like, vintage-y really my style.
let's say somebody might think that's a little tatty if they have a really polished look.
But I think it's a really good exercise in figuring out what you actually like.
because you have to work so hard.
You go into the store and it's like, okay, roll up my sleeves.
And you have to pull and look at every single item and pull it out, be like, okay, is thisgoing to fit me?

(41:51):
You don't have options of different sizes.
You have to look at the cut.
You have to look at it.
and you really have to figure out is this me or is it not?
Whereas it's kind of done for you when you go into a shop of a brand you like, you whetherit's the high street or something more high end.
So even if you didn't buy anything there, because you don't think it's cool for you, Ithink it'd be a really good exercise.

(42:12):
And you could do the same thing in shops that sell furnishings.
Yeah, 100%.
I think it's a really good exercise.
And it's going to be some people's worst nightmare because they want that curation.
They want that like merchandise page.
Like when you open up Net-a-porter that is gorgeously thematic and has, you know, tonalcolor in it.

(42:35):
And that's what spurs people to buy.
And to be honest, I've become more like that now as I've progressed.
Sometimes I don't want to work, it's hard to find the diamond.
I actually want to open up that page on that website and be inspired.
And I think it comes back to that whole lifestyle thing.
It's like, you're aspiring to a lifestyle now.
When I see things presented in this gorgeous way in the context of other things, it makesthem more appealing for me.

(43:01):
so there's a lot to say for that as well.
Yeah.
Well, and when you find the brands that work for you, then you kind of rely on them to puttogether things that are a little different without
steering too far away from your essence, let's say.
And it's the same thing with interiors.
I just think in Ireland, we do struggle a bit with just in terms of having lots of goodplaces to shop from for furnishings and decor.

(43:24):
Like we've been so reliant on the range of brands in the UK and after Brexit, it justmakes things really tricky.
And I think that's why a lot of people end up...
working with interior designers or being really inspired by them because interiordesigners have access to brands that are to the trade only or they make a lot of things
bespoke.
So I think in Ireland in particular, you have to work even harder to find things that areunique because otherwise you're just kind of going, yeah, with the czar home and the Ikea

(43:53):
or, you know, the things you find on adverts or, we do at least have a great range ofantiques which
offer incredible stuff.
But as a result, we have to distill our personal style even more because we don't have somany brands kind of curating it when it comes to interiors in Ireland.
Absolutely.

(44:13):
And the great thing about those brands is that if you really love a brand, you'll kind oftrust in them.
And when they deliver on that whole
the full package of that aesthetic, you'll be like, yeah, I will.
I hadn't thought about that kind of cushion before, but I always buy paintings from you.
So I'll be guided by you.
And I will actually kind of go slightly out of my comfort zone because I see how you putthat together and how well that looks.

(44:37):
And yeah, I'll kind of take that step.
So I definitely rely on that a lot, you know, and there's so many brands.
don't know if I'm pronouncing this property, but is it Gohar World?
They're this incredible lifestyle brand.
They make everything from like little caviar spoons to they will have these amazingdecorative images on their Instagram page.

(44:59):
you 100 % buy into a lifestyle.
It is really hard to find things over here.
I have personally found that even from my perspective on the flip side, writing aboutthings and sourcing things.
It is really, really hard to find a breadth of selection in interiors in Ireland.
Brexit has made it really difficult.
We don't have the same amount of shops as there are in other places, but we have a greatstall of Irish designers and Irish lifestyle boutiques that are curating, amazing

(45:30):
offerings as well.
maybe you just have to, work that bit harder, but
there's that lovely fashion boutique in town, Scout, which is fashion, but they sellgorgeous candles.
you and you, again, you trust that person.
They're an authority on style.
So you will want to purchase an interior as category thing, as much as you'll want topurchase a fashion thing.

(45:52):
And, and we have a breadth of great Irish design talent in this country.
And we have beautiful materials to work with.
Irish linen is there's nothing like it.
So we have some things going for us as well.
100 percent.
I also love we've also amazing artists gorgeous paintings.

(46:13):
there is so much maybe it feels like you have to work slightly harder to find it.
But yeah, my top tip would be as well go to find out where
in your community where your local church faith is on, we're coming into the season soon.
There'll be ones like May all the way through to September.
I have found really cool things for the house.

(46:33):
Like I have two, set of mugs that I use literally every day in my house.
There are these hand-painted made in Ireland mugs, kind of like a Nicholas Moss vibe, butyeah, very similar in aesthetic that I found there.
I've found, vases there.
Yeah, really interesting pieces.
And if you want something that stands out, also, there's a great thrill in uncovering themamongst everything there as well.

(46:54):
there's so many churches around in your community, whether you were, you know, in thecountry or in the city, that season kicks off and there's a lot of good things to be found
there, And then, maybe you balance it then and you have your splurge where you will go and
pay for something from a British designer or a brand in the UK.
And you're like, you know what, it's worth it.

(47:15):
I've thought about it for a really long time.
I'll take the hit of paying the customs or the VAT or whatever it is, because I know thisis one piece that will really elevate my whole living room or whatever it is.
And there are ways around that.
know, there's businesses now who can send it to the North of Ireland and,
get it sent down or have someone collect it for you.
And a lot of people I know do that too.

(47:37):
So it's about having all those pieces in the mix as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
And there's so many interior designers you can follow and people whose homes you love, askthem where they got their things.
And I think people are really happy to share because I think home is so important and tohave something special without breaking the bank or
having to hire an interior designer to do your whole house.

(47:58):
It shouldn't be just the privileged few.
So I think are some great tips.
And yeah, there are so many great shops in Dublin that are very curated in showing Irishdesign.
I think a lot of the publications you write for showcase that.
Ireland does a great job of showcasing its own craft.
it ends up being kind of on the more expensive end.
And I think that's where people struggle.

(48:19):
Because there's that kind of mid-range level which the UK and the US have we're just asmall country and it's really hard to find.
So that's the point where you have to get creative so that you have that mix of high,medium and low rather than just like everything low and just trying to get some of those
high pieces.
I 100 % agree.

(48:41):
sometimes it's in a different price bracket.
But definitely as well, just even following for inspiration, brands like Stable ofIreland, great Irish interior designers like Susie McAdam, Eilish Rickard.
You know, there are so many people doing great things at the moment.
And I love following them to see what rooms, you know, they're designing, but alsosometimes they might share tips on like where they got certain pieces, Irish stock, be

(49:06):
aware of too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for walking us through that.
hope people will feel a little more inspired.
I know that in the day-to-day of life and work and family and social commitments, it mightfeel like a chore to add to your list to figure out your personal style.
But I think it can be very creative.

(49:27):
It can be very fun.
And it can ultimately save you money and be better for the environment because I thinkwhen you do that, you stop buying crap, you know?
Like you said, I'm similar.
I can't tell you the last time I walked into a Zara.
Now, during pregnancy and with a young baby, I've had to buy some things that feel alittle more discardable.

(49:47):
But when you finesse your personal style and you work on this, in the end you make betterinvestments.
And I think that matters to everyone.
Absolutely.
a couple of things there, it doesn't have to cost the world.
One of my favorite pick me ups is
say, buying a tablecloth from considered by Helen James at Duns, some gorgeous beeswaxcandles, a fresh bunch of flowers, create those little micro moments of joy in your home.

(50:12):
And sometimes they have far more impact than, a huge investment or whatever it is.
One last thing I would say is like talking about trends, whether it's fashion orinteriors, I would say to beware of minimalism a bit.
think the term
has become slightly overused at the moment.
And particularly if you're trying to tap into your own sense of style and try and buyoutside of the trend loop.

(50:37):
if you go on a lot of profiles and Instagram, a lot of big style influencers will oftenjust say minimal style now as their descriptor.
And I love following a lot of those people, but now minimalism has become a byword forjust
cool and minimalism in its purest form, probably a lot more stark.
people like Jill Sander pioneered it way back when, she was the queen of less, but she wascreating these uniforms for women entering the labor market.

(51:03):
Then it was Phoebe Philo, it's Celine.
She was the postmodern woman.
who created a minimalism that was a bit more ladylike and covetable.
my point is that it can go to extremes.
You have Kim Kardashian's home, which is minimalist, which looks like an art gallery.
And everyone has their own tastes.
It's not to shame anything or anyone.
actually stop and take a moment and just question, does that work for you?

(51:27):
And is that actually what you like?
Yeah, yeah.
The beige everything and playing it a bit safe There's a beige backlash now.
You know?
Yeah.
Amazing.
Thank you so much for that, Sarah.
And people can follow along on your design, your fashion interiors musings atohegartysarah on Instagram.
And yeah, I look forward to following along and seeing what's coming next and the nextpieces you write.

(51:53):
Thank you so much for spending some time with us.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been lovely.