March 26, 2025 • 24 mins
"You absolutely have to understand why we're all here, who we're serving, what's the important role that we're serving in someone else's life, and then how we're connecting, communicating with each other."
Fresh off his second mastermind experience with us, David Hancock, founder of Morgan James Publishing, shares why he returned and how these events continue to deliver fresh insights and encouragement. We explore several key takeaways from the mastermind, including some of our favorite bits of wisdom shared by Lee Cockerell and guest speaker Chris Trout. From pushing company culture to the front line to embracing risk and testing authority, we dive into the strategies that can help you and your organization thrive.
Read the blog for our recap of the Creating Magic Mastermind, including why everyone around the table is truly the best part of the event.
Episode Resources
Chris Trout, Donlon Consulting
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. I feel like I'm a little
behind in getting this episode out because in
February, Lee
Cockrell and I did a Creating Magic Mastermind.
It's the best event that we do. I absolutely love them. When we
do those events, I like to have someone join me to talk about
(00:25):
them and how it went, what we learned. And the guest who
was at the mastermind and is here with me today is
the founder of Morgan James Publishing, David Hancock. Hello,
David. Hello, Jody. Man, what a privilege it is to
be on here with you today. Oh, man. What a privilege it was to be
with you in October. That was great. David has been to
(00:47):
two of them now. Yeah. So after going to one,
David, why did you come back for a second one? Why would I go back
for more? Right? Well, you know, one of the things I love about your format,
Jody, is it's not a one and done. And the attendees that
are there are different each time that I've learned and and actually
experienced. So having the ability to learn from each other, share the
(01:09):
stories, learn from the two of you, Lee and obviously the amazing Jody, the
outcomes were completely different in a positive way. So I I'm a big
fan of masterminds. I'm a big fan of of just letting a
group solve everybody's challenges or or bring
that proper encouragement in it. And, of course, every stage that I've
gone to it, we were at a different place in a good in a good
(01:30):
way, and and I needed additional help. So I love it. Love it.
Absolutely. I tell people when they sign up, I say, I know you're
signing up for Lee Cockrell, but you will find out Lee is not
the best part of the event. It's the group around the table. Is that true
or false? Absolutely. And definitely in your events, but
that's true with whatever event you go to. If you look at it that way,
(01:51):
the real magic of the relationships you can create with the people to the left
and the right of you, if you if you think of it that way. But
yours is such a small setting and such a forced, again, a good
way, into getting to know those people sitting next to you. That's just
the beauty of it. Yeah. Okay. So what I've done is I
have pulled nine things that I learned
(02:12):
from this particular mastermind. It's amazing.
Lee and I have worked together ten years. I think I've heard it all. And
then every time we do one of these, I learn new things from him. And
I've purposely pulled eight of them from
what Lee said and one from our guest
speaker because when we have attendees,
(02:34):
people that have paid to be there, they didn't necessarily pay for me
to talk about them and their challenge
on this episode. So that's why I've picked things
that Lee said. Although David was there, maybe we'll end up talking about
what he talked about. But so this is what we're gonna do, David. I'm gonna
tell you one thing that I learned from Lee, and then we'll
(02:56):
just talk about it. Even if it's briefly because I think, as
I said, people come for Lee Cockrell. They realize it's the discussion.
It's everyone else that makes it worth it. In this episode, though, we're mostly gonna
talk about things that Lee Cockrell talked about during
this event. We always start off with Lee giving
some sort of monologue or talk at the beginning. But
(03:19):
once we start the hot seats, we call them magic seats just to stay on
brand. Once we start those, there are times Lee does
not talk much, and he purposely will hold back and talk at the
end because I'm sure you felt this at Morgan James publishing,
David, that if you speak up, okay, the founder, the
boss has said something, so maybe we should tilt in that direction.
(03:41):
So Lee holds back so other people will participate before he
talks. But this one, this first item, number
one came from, I think it was Lee's opening talk, but
perhaps it was the first magic seat. Lee said when we
hire, we have to show what's in it for them.
So David Lee says that this is a change with
(04:03):
younger people that it used to be. We wanted to know
what the person we're interviewing can do for us. But
Lee says, no. It's changed. Yes. You still have to do that,
but we now have to show what's in it for them.
So if we're interviewing for Morgan James publishing, yes. We
wanna know about that person, but we also have to let them know what's
(04:25):
in it for them to come on board at Morgan James publishing. Do you find
that's true now? I do. And you're so right with Lee and
even you. When you do kind of reserve and and take it all in and
then share your your wisdom as the leader, that's very impactful. But you're right. You
don't wanna steer any conversations or thoughts. But he did lay the foundation
really well in in that talk, and he's absolutely right. And it's different than
(04:47):
from when you and I were, you know, seeking out in that workforce place. And
and you can blame the tech industry who offer these unusual,
unbelievable packages to get the highest, you know, you know,
quality candidate to get in there, but that's kinda spilled over in every avenue. There's
a lot of options regardless of what, you know, unemployment numbers
say. For the most of us, we've got a lot of great options, and it's
(05:08):
a competitive workforce to be able to to say, do I wanna pick this
company? Do I wanna pick this company? This will serve me, and I certainly they
have to serve you as a company. But the mindset of that younger generation is
so different, and I I like it. It makes it more of an equal playing
form where you can really kind of play in the sandbox together and benefit
everybody. Yeah. That's right. And I think it helps
(05:29):
build a better culture when someone is coming on
board because they realize it benefits them. Your
company lines up with their ultimate goals. And we do see that with
young the younger David and I say younger people, but younger
people just means younger than us. That the young up and coming
generations are very into I want to do
(05:51):
meaningful work and you better be part of that
or I may not take this position. I started to teach that
to authors in that whole mindset back in the day when Jay Lemelson
and I wrote a book called The Entrepreneurial Author, but we spent an enormous
amount of time in that book talking about that mindset, that journey,
the the stress, the the serving yourself first and then the
(06:14):
company second. And of course, for publishing, it's the book and and readers. So for
the yeah. Absolutely love it. Okay. This, I
feel, goes nicely with point number two, also
from Lee Cockrell. And he said, you have to push the
culture down to the front line. The reason I thought
this one was interesting is another Morgan James
(06:35):
author, Dan Cockrell, he would always say culture is
how we do things around here. So if you combine that with what Lee
said, that you push culture down to the front line,
to me that says, okay. If culture is how we do things around
here, it has to come from the top. Because if the top doesn't push it
down, this is how we do things, then it goes from the front
(06:57):
line up. Because the front line will just without direction,
without examples, they'll just do what they'll do and then that
will form the culture. What is your thought on this idea that you have to
push culture down? Oh, I absolutely agree with it. Because you're right. If
if left unattended, you know, they'll kinda do what they've done before or do what
they've done at previous companies or something like that and it'll get disjointed. But you
(07:19):
absolutely have to understand why we're all here, who we're
serving, what's the important role that we're serving in someone else's
life, and then how we're connecting, communicating with each other. And then the
activities and the and the camaraderie that you're building together and the events
that you do together to create that relationship and that
space to be able to thrive in that culture is super, super
(07:41):
important. And you're right. If you're not leading that direction, it'll just go awry and
go however it goes. Sometimes it works out, most time it
doesn't. So you definitely have to be intentional. And you can't do it one time.
You've gotta constantly be making sure that everybody is all
in the same motion of how are we serving
our ex. You know, how are we serving our ex. What's their experience? And it's
(08:02):
a fluid process. I don't think anybody ever gets it perfect, but, the one thing
that we can do is perfectly address it on a regular basis. David,
do you like how I snuck in an
endorsement of Morgan James publishing mentioning Dan Cockrell as a Morgan
James author? I like that a lot. I I appreciate you. I've seen you model
that. So that's where that came from. Well, with every one of these events,
(08:25):
we usually bring in a Disney
speaker. This speaker was Chris Trout,
who did wonderful. I really enjoyed him. Here's the
one thing he said, though, that I thought we should talk about. He said people
support what they helped create. Yes.
Yeah. Absolutely. He said taking ownership of it, feeling responsible
(08:46):
for its, fruition. And by the way, he was so approachable.
Sometimes you think these execs, you know, they they got to a level where you
really can't relate to them. Man, he was spot on. He was so lovable.
I've really enjoyed getting them. I had never met him before. But you're right. Once
people start getting their hands into it and they're and they're buying into that purpose
and passion for the organization and seeing, you know, how that end
(09:08):
user is experiencing it, it's easy to really feel like,
man, this is I had a hand in it. This is really amazing. And they
take that role, and that's where that culture continues to grow and
becomes very contagious. Alright. Yeah. Chris was
great. David, did you talk to Chris about how he needs to write a book?
Well, you know, it's hard to be around me without hearing somehow that there's a
(09:29):
book in you somewhere. Yeah. We planted
seeds, so I'm sowing the seeds, and lord willing, we'll reap the harvest later.
Yeah. I assumed that happened. Okay. We're gonna
bounce back to Lee Cockrell, and this is a
very short lesson, but very powerful. Lee
said we overrate risk. Have you
(09:52):
found that to be true, David? You know, it's hard. In the early
days of an organization, you're like, you're more willing to take the risk. You really
wanna, you know, get out there and and and make a name for yourself. But
then, you know, as you start gaining momentum and hiring staff and
having more obligations, it's kinda hard to, you know, to take
risks, if you will. But then sometimes you get a little too complacent, but you
(10:13):
always need to be on that front line and and and that's how you grow.
You gotta get uncomfortable to grow. So I I absolutely agree with
that. You know, think of it this way. You're you're an entrepreneur. You're
running your little small business and you realize, okay. I've I've been
feeding me, and now all of a sudden I'm feeding a family of
four. Now I'm feeding a family of six, and they have three kids. And so
(10:34):
I'm feeding a family of 30. You know, the the stresses really start to weigh
down on it, then you'd be very cautious. But if you're too cautious, you'll get
passed by the organizations and the companies that are really taking those bleeding
edge moments. You don't wanna be too much of a pioneer where you get errors
in your back, but you've gotta stay in the front, and it does take risk.
And those risks can be very rewarding. Now, David, hopefully, you
don't mind me mentioning this, but in
(10:58):
my notes because I take a lot of notes during this event.
And in the notes about you, I wrote something
about how you got ahead. You
built your business doing what other publishers won't do,
but now you're hesitant to do a couple things because other
publishers aren't doing them. Now, hopefully, you don't mind me
(11:21):
mentioning that because it just ties into this so
well. Once you're more established, you just feel like
there's more at risk. David and I are both family men. We
were much more willing to take risks before kids,
before mortgage than we would be now. Yeah.
That's so true. Absolutely. And you're right. Even no matter how well you
(11:42):
know something or think you know something, you've got that little those little doubts,
those little errors and judgment because you're maybe a little scared and that's
okay. If you're not uncomfortable, you're never gonna go anywhere. But that's one of the
reasons why I love your mastermind is that you can really find in those
things and then flesh them out and get rid of them. Or find those things
that are hiding, that are bubbling up to the surface that really need to come
(12:02):
out. So I've always thought, you know, definitely as a founder that you can go
so far by yourself, but you can go so much farther with a little bit
of help from a lot of your friends. That's so good. And Lee
is not hesitant to be candid with people that are
around the table. And Lee Lee will say candor is
truth with empathy. So Lee Lee has the empathy,
(12:24):
but when you need to hear something, Lee will tell you. And the
translation to me is that truth with empathy is is truth and love.
I always take his his constructive criticism and
feedback in love because, I mean, that's who he is. He has seen so much
and has managed so many different scenarios we all can learn from him, but he
does it he does it in a really special way. He does. And here's what
(12:46):
I found working with Lee for ten years. If he doesn't care
what happens to you, David, then he'll just say, good luck with
that. I hope you do well. But I'll do respect. But if he
cares, he'll he'll tell you, David, rethink that. Yeah.
Think about this. Have you tried this? That's a sign that
Lee cares when he gives you the candid feedback. Love it.
(13:08):
Okay. Here's one that something new I learned
about operations at Disney from Lee that really made me
rethink something. He said, there are no mirrors at the
sink at Disney at Disney World. He said, there's no mirrors at the sinks
at Disney World. They're on the way out. So this is what I love
about this. So they kept having a problem that our
(13:31):
bathrooms would be clean, but it wouldn't look like it because the mirrors
would be splattered. And that gives a sign that it's dirty. So they just
move the mirrors on the way out. So you wash your hands, and then you
look at yourself on the way out. And the mirrors stay clean. That
really showed me that, okay, the problem is
our mirrors are always splattered with water. Most people, I
(13:52):
think, the solution would be we should clean them more often.
But Lee and Disney think in a way that say, oh, well, the
problem is the mirrors are splattered. Let's just move the mirrors.
Problem solved. Man, I tell you what, I don't know if I could have come
up with that. That's brilliant. Hey, now I remember thinking, hey, there's no mirrors here,
you know, dagnabbit, but I see it. You know, it takes one client. You could
(14:14):
clean the bathroom perfectly. The very next person, maybe you, will
splatter the mirror, and then the very next person just walks in and says, oh,
this is this is not so good. But it really it is because
you moved the problem. Yeah. That's right. Well, with that,
I'm sure that was not Lee's idea,
that it came from someone else, probably someone who cleans
(14:37):
the bathrooms at Disney. So Lee said, I
want everyone helping me run the company. So as
someone who has run a company for many years, David, what do you think
about that? The idea that it shouldn't be just you, everyone should be helping
you with it. Yes. Absolutely. I love love that. Can I
share an example from another a guerrilla marketing example
(14:59):
of how that culture and that community and pulling in from every team
member works? Story that Jay Levinson told me years and years ago. It's in one
of our books, of course. But, he when he was into the ad business, he
was consulting with, a company called Tabasco. You probably
heard of them before. And for years and years and years, their their profit has
always been growing. But for whatever reason, at one point, they started to go flat
(15:21):
to even started to maybe decline a little bit for the first time in their
multi generational company. And it was like, oh my gosh. You know, let's we gotta
do something. So Tabasco decided to hire, you know,
a a PR firm. And they wanted to know, you know, what do I need
to do advertising on stuff to make this work? And they hired Jay's team from
a marketing perspective. What kind of marketing do we need to do to make this
problem, you know, go away and we can go back to profitability? And And he
(15:44):
basically said, hey, here's, you know, multimillion dollar contract to whoever can
come in and pitch us the best way. You know, is it advertising or is
it marketing? Because there are two different things. And he was very smart, this founder
or whoever was running the CEO running Tabasco. He had the presentations
same day, you know, back to back so they can have fresh ideas. And as
you were going into the very first meeting with one of the two groups, the
(16:06):
CEO said, hey, young lady, you're an intern. You
just started. Why don't you come in and sit and listen and take
notes and and maybe, you know, just participate in this really cool exciting thing we're
doing? And she was like, oh, I'm honored and scared. But yes. So she she
sat in, and both organizations gave really great
compelling ways to spend their multimillion dollars in marketing and advertising. All of them sound
(16:28):
really good. And at the end, he turns to this
intern and said, what do you think? What do you think we should
do? And the intern looked up and said, you know, it's so out outside of
my element. This all sounds really, really good, but really, really, I I just think
you need to make the hole bigger. And that's what they did. Profit shot up,
like, 18 the next year. They retooled their bottles so that a little bit
(16:50):
more would come out, so people would buy more often. They'd use it more often,
and it wasn't sales or marketing. It was neither one. It was just making the
whole bigger. And that took the insight of somebody fresh and new in the organization
and being willing to ask and being willing to listen. Oh, what a
great story. That is a perfect example of this
on both sides that she was willing to speak up in a room where she
(17:12):
was probably intimidated and fell out of her league
and that her supervisors and the people above her
supervisors would listen. That is just a wonderful story.
Unrelated to anything we're talking about, Lee has a good
story related to Tabasco. He he really
likes Tabasco and won the red
(17:34):
kind. And one time he came home, I think Lee or Priscilla had
made meatloaf, and she had a bottle of green Tabasco
on the table. And Lee was not happy about that, but he
just tried it anyway, and it turned out he liked it.
So he started giving out the Green Tabasco
award at Disney World for people who did something
(17:56):
different out of their comfort zone. And then Tabasco heard about it,
and they sent him a nice bottle with a good note of
of green Tabasco sauce. So Oh, I love it. Yeah. Kind of funny
story there that just, again, shows Lee's way of
encouraging people to help him run the company. Do something different. Do
something you're not comfortable with. Just like Lee did putting green Tabasco
(18:19):
on his meatloaf. Okay. This one, I
won't I don't wanna give any details, but somebody was talking about
problem at their company and something they wanted to do
about it. And Lee advice to this person
was just do things, test your authority. And I
thought, oh, how wonderful. So many of us, if we're not at the
(18:42):
top, we wait for permission to do something
that we know probably needs to be done, but we're waiting for someone to say
we can do it. And Lee says, no. Just do things. Test your authority. That's
how you find out what you can do. I love that.
I've always been a ask for forgiveness kinda guy my entire life, so I've
resonated with that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I and I from a
(19:04):
business perspective, I really like it when when the team members really, you know, take
a role and make decisions. And everyone who someone, including myself, might
make the wrong decision, but how are you gonna know? Yes. Those boundaries
take control and you yeah. I loved it and resonated with it
immediately. It reminds me of someone I was working with some at
one point and someone else said, how is it going with this person?
(19:26):
And I said, well, like with most new people, their mistakes
this person's making mistakes. But what I like about their mistakes, their
mistakes of action. And that makes a difference because mistakes of
action means they're doing stuff and it's easy to adjust. I
like mistakes of action. Alright. This one this next one hits close to
home. Someone this person, they're on their magic seat.
(19:49):
They're responsible for a lot of people. They're trying to change the
culture, and they describe the situation. And Lee
told them, you're not being as tough as you say you
are. And that one hits close to me because sometimes
I'm not as tough as I need to be. I don't mind saying that the
one thing Lee reminds me of more than he
(20:11):
should have to is you're too soft. So, you
know, may that's it. So and that what I took from this,
sometimes we have the idea this is how things are going, but you tell
it to someone else and they hear the details and then they say, no. It's
not going the way you think it's going. Yeah. So true. With that
right culture, you know, with that right relationship that you have with those around you,
(20:34):
whether they're above you or below you, it certainly certainly can feel like
you gotta really sometimes kinda dance around some things. But just to
take ownership of it, step into it, be tough when necessary. They
will respect you for it. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right. Okay. Here's
point number nine. I think it's a great one to end on. Lee
told somebody there's not much competition for being
(20:56):
great. Oh my gosh.
That's so I mean, I I remember that. You're right. It's like
yeah. Absolutely. The the road less traveled is less traveled because nobody
seems to wanna go down there. Right? And that's where the great people go. Well,
David, I've used this episode to bring up nine
points I remembered and learned from the Creating Magic Mastermind.
(21:18):
You don't have your notes in front of you. I'm putting you on the spot.
But does anything for a special tenth point, does
anything come into mind that you remembered from the mastermind?
Oh, I remember that I wanna go back for sure.
Because as we kind of alluded in the beginning, not only do I get a
great amount of value by spending more quality time with you, Jody, and and here
(21:40):
in the wisdom of Lee, but the wisdom of the crowd is just
so it ignites a fire in me. It makes me feel like, yes, I too
can take advantage of all this stuff. And and you're in there with peers that
are going through very similar challenges or have just solved the problem you're trying to
do. So it is it's just a great environment. Just a really great
environment that, I think you can thrive in. And, with as busy as
(22:02):
we are nowadays, you know, I've been in masterminds that met on a regular
basis. I love yours because there's some there's some time to spread out between the
two so you can go and implement and create, you know, new opportunities and challenge
that you'll need help for the next go around or learn something that you can
share passionately back to the group. So that's that's pretty powerful as well.
Yeah. Alright. Wonderful. Well, the next one, David said
(22:22):
he's wants to go back. The next one, October
20 20 five, October in Orlando will be the next
one, and they always sell out. The next one will sell out.
It'll be a great time. It is my favorite event. I think
it's a great example also of the
great working relationship Lee and I have because I'm the
(22:44):
showrunner. I make sure we get people there. I set everything
up. I make sure people have a great time, and I make
sure Lee is set up to do what Lee
does. And that that's why Lee and I work together so well
because I just make sure that Lee
has the perfect setting to do what Lee Cockrell does best.
(23:06):
If you want to experience the next Creating Magic Mastermind,
well, you can listen to Creating Disney Magic because we'll talk about it there
or just go ahead and send me an email,
jody@jodymayberry.com, and I will send you all the
details. And from the sounds of it, if you join us, you might get
to meet David Hancock as well. That's right. What an honor and
(23:26):
privilege for me that would be. Alright,
David. It has been fantastic for you to join me. And I
should say, before we say goodbye to David, if you enjoy the
witty banter of Jody Mayberry and David Hancock together, check out
the podcast, Morgan James Radio, where David and I
have done episodes together for many years now.
(23:48):
Indeed. Alright. Thank you so much, David, and thank you
for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show.
Y'all need something sweet. It's Sugar Jay.
Welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. I feel like I'm a little
behind in getting this episode out because in
February, Lee
Cockrell and I did a Creating Magic Mastermind.
It's the best event that we do. I absolutely love them. When we
do those events, I like to have someone join me to talk about
(00:25):
them and how it went, what we learned. And the guest who
was at the mastermind and is here with me today is
the founder of Morgan James Publishing, David Hancock. Hello,
David. Hello, Jody. Man, what a privilege it is to
be on here with you today. Oh, man. What a privilege it was to be
with you in October. That was great. David has been to
(00:47):
two of them now. Yeah. So after going to one,
David, why did you come back for a second one? Why would I go back
for more? Right? Well, you know, one of the things I love about your format,
Jody, is it's not a one and done. And the attendees that
are there are different each time that I've learned and and actually
experienced. So having the ability to learn from each other, share the
(01:09):
stories, learn from the two of you, Lee and obviously the amazing Jody, the
outcomes were completely different in a positive way. So I I'm a big
fan of masterminds. I'm a big fan of of just letting a
group solve everybody's challenges or or bring
that proper encouragement in it. And, of course, every stage that I've
gone to it, we were at a different place in a good in a good
(01:30):
way, and and I needed additional help. So I love it. Love it.
Absolutely. I tell people when they sign up, I say, I know you're
signing up for Lee Cockrell, but you will find out Lee is not
the best part of the event. It's the group around the table. Is that true
or false? Absolutely. And definitely in your events, but
that's true with whatever event you go to. If you look at it that way,
(01:51):
the real magic of the relationships you can create with the people to the left
and the right of you, if you if you think of it that way. But
yours is such a small setting and such a forced, again, a good
way, into getting to know those people sitting next to you. That's just
the beauty of it. Yeah. Okay. So what I've done is I
have pulled nine things that I learned
(02:12):
from this particular mastermind. It's amazing.
Lee and I have worked together ten years. I think I've heard it all. And
then every time we do one of these, I learn new things from him. And
I've purposely pulled eight of them from
what Lee said and one from our guest
speaker because when we have attendees,
(02:34):
people that have paid to be there, they didn't necessarily pay for me
to talk about them and their challenge
on this episode. So that's why I've picked things
that Lee said. Although David was there, maybe we'll end up talking about
what he talked about. But so this is what we're gonna do, David. I'm gonna
tell you one thing that I learned from Lee, and then we'll
(02:56):
just talk about it. Even if it's briefly because I think, as
I said, people come for Lee Cockrell. They realize it's the discussion.
It's everyone else that makes it worth it. In this episode, though, we're mostly gonna
talk about things that Lee Cockrell talked about during
this event. We always start off with Lee giving
some sort of monologue or talk at the beginning. But
(03:19):
once we start the hot seats, we call them magic seats just to stay on
brand. Once we start those, there are times Lee does
not talk much, and he purposely will hold back and talk at the
end because I'm sure you felt this at Morgan James publishing,
David, that if you speak up, okay, the founder, the
boss has said something, so maybe we should tilt in that direction.
(03:41):
So Lee holds back so other people will participate before he
talks. But this one, this first item, number
one came from, I think it was Lee's opening talk, but
perhaps it was the first magic seat. Lee said when we
hire, we have to show what's in it for them.
So David Lee says that this is a change with
(04:03):
younger people that it used to be. We wanted to know
what the person we're interviewing can do for us. But
Lee says, no. It's changed. Yes. You still have to do that,
but we now have to show what's in it for them.
So if we're interviewing for Morgan James publishing, yes. We
wanna know about that person, but we also have to let them know what's
(04:25):
in it for them to come on board at Morgan James publishing. Do you find
that's true now? I do. And you're so right with Lee and
even you. When you do kind of reserve and and take it all in and
then share your your wisdom as the leader, that's very impactful. But you're right. You
don't wanna steer any conversations or thoughts. But he did lay the foundation
really well in in that talk, and he's absolutely right. And it's different than
(04:47):
from when you and I were, you know, seeking out in that workforce place. And
and you can blame the tech industry who offer these unusual,
unbelievable packages to get the highest, you know, you know,
quality candidate to get in there, but that's kinda spilled over in every avenue. There's
a lot of options regardless of what, you know, unemployment numbers
say. For the most of us, we've got a lot of great options, and it's
(05:08):
a competitive workforce to be able to to say, do I wanna pick this
company? Do I wanna pick this company? This will serve me, and I certainly they
have to serve you as a company. But the mindset of that younger generation is
so different, and I I like it. It makes it more of an equal playing
form where you can really kind of play in the sandbox together and benefit
everybody. Yeah. That's right. And I think it helps
(05:29):
build a better culture when someone is coming on
board because they realize it benefits them. Your
company lines up with their ultimate goals. And we do see that with
young the younger David and I say younger people, but younger
people just means younger than us. That the young up and coming
generations are very into I want to do
(05:51):
meaningful work and you better be part of that
or I may not take this position. I started to teach that
to authors in that whole mindset back in the day when Jay Lemelson
and I wrote a book called The Entrepreneurial Author, but we spent an enormous
amount of time in that book talking about that mindset, that journey,
the the stress, the the serving yourself first and then the
(06:14):
company second. And of course, for publishing, it's the book and and readers. So for
the yeah. Absolutely love it. Okay. This, I
feel, goes nicely with point number two, also
from Lee Cockrell. And he said, you have to push the
culture down to the front line. The reason I thought
this one was interesting is another Morgan James
(06:35):
author, Dan Cockrell, he would always say culture is
how we do things around here. So if you combine that with what Lee
said, that you push culture down to the front line,
to me that says, okay. If culture is how we do things around
here, it has to come from the top. Because if the top doesn't push it
down, this is how we do things, then it goes from the front
(06:57):
line up. Because the front line will just without direction,
without examples, they'll just do what they'll do and then that
will form the culture. What is your thought on this idea that you have to
push culture down? Oh, I absolutely agree with it. Because you're right. If
if left unattended, you know, they'll kinda do what they've done before or do what
they've done at previous companies or something like that and it'll get disjointed. But you
(07:19):
absolutely have to understand why we're all here, who we're
serving, what's the important role that we're serving in someone else's
life, and then how we're connecting, communicating with each other. And then the
activities and the and the camaraderie that you're building together and the events
that you do together to create that relationship and that
space to be able to thrive in that culture is super, super
(07:41):
important. And you're right. If you're not leading that direction, it'll just go awry and
go however it goes. Sometimes it works out, most time it
doesn't. So you definitely have to be intentional. And you can't do it one time.
You've gotta constantly be making sure that everybody is all
in the same motion of how are we serving
our ex. You know, how are we serving our ex. What's their experience? And it's
(08:02):
a fluid process. I don't think anybody ever gets it perfect, but, the one thing
that we can do is perfectly address it on a regular basis. David,
do you like how I snuck in an
endorsement of Morgan James publishing mentioning Dan Cockrell as a Morgan
James author? I like that a lot. I I appreciate you. I've seen you model
that. So that's where that came from. Well, with every one of these events,
(08:25):
we usually bring in a Disney
speaker. This speaker was Chris Trout,
who did wonderful. I really enjoyed him. Here's the
one thing he said, though, that I thought we should talk about. He said people
support what they helped create. Yes.
Yeah. Absolutely. He said taking ownership of it, feeling responsible
(08:46):
for its, fruition. And by the way, he was so approachable.
Sometimes you think these execs, you know, they they got to a level where you
really can't relate to them. Man, he was spot on. He was so lovable.
I've really enjoyed getting them. I had never met him before. But you're right. Once
people start getting their hands into it and they're and they're buying into that purpose
and passion for the organization and seeing, you know, how that end
(09:08):
user is experiencing it, it's easy to really feel like,
man, this is I had a hand in it. This is really amazing. And they
take that role, and that's where that culture continues to grow and
becomes very contagious. Alright. Yeah. Chris was
great. David, did you talk to Chris about how he needs to write a book?
Well, you know, it's hard to be around me without hearing somehow that there's a
(09:29):
book in you somewhere. Yeah. We planted
seeds, so I'm sowing the seeds, and lord willing, we'll reap the harvest later.
Yeah. I assumed that happened. Okay. We're gonna
bounce back to Lee Cockrell, and this is a
very short lesson, but very powerful. Lee
said we overrate risk. Have you
(09:52):
found that to be true, David? You know, it's hard. In the early
days of an organization, you're like, you're more willing to take the risk. You really
wanna, you know, get out there and and and make a name for yourself. But
then, you know, as you start gaining momentum and hiring staff and
having more obligations, it's kinda hard to, you know, to take
risks, if you will. But then sometimes you get a little too complacent, but you
(10:13):
always need to be on that front line and and and that's how you grow.
You gotta get uncomfortable to grow. So I I absolutely agree with
that. You know, think of it this way. You're you're an entrepreneur. You're
running your little small business and you realize, okay. I've I've been
feeding me, and now all of a sudden I'm feeding a family of
four. Now I'm feeding a family of six, and they have three kids. And so
(10:34):
I'm feeding a family of 30. You know, the the stresses really start to weigh
down on it, then you'd be very cautious. But if you're too cautious, you'll get
passed by the organizations and the companies that are really taking those bleeding
edge moments. You don't wanna be too much of a pioneer where you get errors
in your back, but you've gotta stay in the front, and it does take risk.
And those risks can be very rewarding. Now, David, hopefully, you
don't mind me mentioning this, but in
(10:58):
my notes because I take a lot of notes during this event.
And in the notes about you, I wrote something
about how you got ahead. You
built your business doing what other publishers won't do,
but now you're hesitant to do a couple things because other
publishers aren't doing them. Now, hopefully, you don't mind me
(11:21):
mentioning that because it just ties into this so
well. Once you're more established, you just feel like
there's more at risk. David and I are both family men. We
were much more willing to take risks before kids,
before mortgage than we would be now. Yeah.
That's so true. Absolutely. And you're right. Even no matter how well you
(11:42):
know something or think you know something, you've got that little those little doubts,
those little errors and judgment because you're maybe a little scared and that's
okay. If you're not uncomfortable, you're never gonna go anywhere. But that's one of the
reasons why I love your mastermind is that you can really find in those
things and then flesh them out and get rid of them. Or find those things
that are hiding, that are bubbling up to the surface that really need to come
(12:02):
out. So I've always thought, you know, definitely as a founder that you can go
so far by yourself, but you can go so much farther with a little bit
of help from a lot of your friends. That's so good. And Lee
is not hesitant to be candid with people that are
around the table. And Lee Lee will say candor is
truth with empathy. So Lee Lee has the empathy,
(12:24):
but when you need to hear something, Lee will tell you. And the
translation to me is that truth with empathy is is truth and love.
I always take his his constructive criticism and
feedback in love because, I mean, that's who he is. He has seen so much
and has managed so many different scenarios we all can learn from him, but he
does it he does it in a really special way. He does. And here's what
(12:46):
I found working with Lee for ten years. If he doesn't care
what happens to you, David, then he'll just say, good luck with
that. I hope you do well. But I'll do respect. But if he
cares, he'll he'll tell you, David, rethink that. Yeah.
Think about this. Have you tried this? That's a sign that
Lee cares when he gives you the candid feedback. Love it.
(13:08):
Okay. Here's one that something new I learned
about operations at Disney from Lee that really made me
rethink something. He said, there are no mirrors at the
sink at Disney at Disney World. He said, there's no mirrors at the sinks
at Disney World. They're on the way out. So this is what I love
about this. So they kept having a problem that our
(13:31):
bathrooms would be clean, but it wouldn't look like it because the mirrors
would be splattered. And that gives a sign that it's dirty. So they just
move the mirrors on the way out. So you wash your hands, and then you
look at yourself on the way out. And the mirrors stay clean. That
really showed me that, okay, the problem is
our mirrors are always splattered with water. Most people, I
(13:52):
think, the solution would be we should clean them more often.
But Lee and Disney think in a way that say, oh, well, the
problem is the mirrors are splattered. Let's just move the mirrors.
Problem solved. Man, I tell you what, I don't know if I could have come
up with that. That's brilliant. Hey, now I remember thinking, hey, there's no mirrors here,
you know, dagnabbit, but I see it. You know, it takes one client. You could
(14:14):
clean the bathroom perfectly. The very next person, maybe you, will
splatter the mirror, and then the very next person just walks in and says, oh,
this is this is not so good. But it really it is because
you moved the problem. Yeah. That's right. Well, with that,
I'm sure that was not Lee's idea,
that it came from someone else, probably someone who cleans
(14:37):
the bathrooms at Disney. So Lee said, I
want everyone helping me run the company. So as
someone who has run a company for many years, David, what do you think
about that? The idea that it shouldn't be just you, everyone should be helping
you with it. Yes. Absolutely. I love love that. Can I
share an example from another a guerrilla marketing example
(14:59):
of how that culture and that community and pulling in from every team
member works? Story that Jay Levinson told me years and years ago. It's in one
of our books, of course. But, he when he was into the ad business, he
was consulting with, a company called Tabasco. You probably
heard of them before. And for years and years and years, their their profit has
always been growing. But for whatever reason, at one point, they started to go flat
(15:21):
to even started to maybe decline a little bit for the first time in their
multi generational company. And it was like, oh my gosh. You know, let's we gotta
do something. So Tabasco decided to hire, you know,
a a PR firm. And they wanted to know, you know, what do I need
to do advertising on stuff to make this work? And they hired Jay's team from
a marketing perspective. What kind of marketing do we need to do to make this
problem, you know, go away and we can go back to profitability? And And he
(15:44):
basically said, hey, here's, you know, multimillion dollar contract to whoever can
come in and pitch us the best way. You know, is it advertising or is
it marketing? Because there are two different things. And he was very smart, this founder
or whoever was running the CEO running Tabasco. He had the presentations
same day, you know, back to back so they can have fresh ideas. And as
you were going into the very first meeting with one of the two groups, the
(16:06):
CEO said, hey, young lady, you're an intern. You
just started. Why don't you come in and sit and listen and take
notes and and maybe, you know, just participate in this really cool exciting thing we're
doing? And she was like, oh, I'm honored and scared. But yes. So she she
sat in, and both organizations gave really great
compelling ways to spend their multimillion dollars in marketing and advertising. All of them sound
(16:28):
really good. And at the end, he turns to this
intern and said, what do you think? What do you think we should
do? And the intern looked up and said, you know, it's so out outside of
my element. This all sounds really, really good, but really, really, I I just think
you need to make the hole bigger. And that's what they did. Profit shot up,
like, 18 the next year. They retooled their bottles so that a little bit
(16:50):
more would come out, so people would buy more often. They'd use it more often,
and it wasn't sales or marketing. It was neither one. It was just making the
whole bigger. And that took the insight of somebody fresh and new in the organization
and being willing to ask and being willing to listen. Oh, what a
great story. That is a perfect example of this
on both sides that she was willing to speak up in a room where she
(17:12):
was probably intimidated and fell out of her league
and that her supervisors and the people above her
supervisors would listen. That is just a wonderful story.
Unrelated to anything we're talking about, Lee has a good
story related to Tabasco. He he really
likes Tabasco and won the red
(17:34):
kind. And one time he came home, I think Lee or Priscilla had
made meatloaf, and she had a bottle of green Tabasco
on the table. And Lee was not happy about that, but he
just tried it anyway, and it turned out he liked it.
So he started giving out the Green Tabasco
award at Disney World for people who did something
(17:56):
different out of their comfort zone. And then Tabasco heard about it,
and they sent him a nice bottle with a good note of
of green Tabasco sauce. So Oh, I love it. Yeah. Kind of funny
story there that just, again, shows Lee's way of
encouraging people to help him run the company. Do something different. Do
something you're not comfortable with. Just like Lee did putting green Tabasco
(18:19):
on his meatloaf. Okay. This one, I
won't I don't wanna give any details, but somebody was talking about
problem at their company and something they wanted to do
about it. And Lee advice to this person
was just do things, test your authority. And I
thought, oh, how wonderful. So many of us, if we're not at the
(18:42):
top, we wait for permission to do something
that we know probably needs to be done, but we're waiting for someone to say
we can do it. And Lee says, no. Just do things. Test your authority. That's
how you find out what you can do. I love that.
I've always been a ask for forgiveness kinda guy my entire life, so I've
resonated with that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I and I from a
(19:04):
business perspective, I really like it when when the team members really, you know, take
a role and make decisions. And everyone who someone, including myself, might
make the wrong decision, but how are you gonna know? Yes. Those boundaries
take control and you yeah. I loved it and resonated with it
immediately. It reminds me of someone I was working with some at
one point and someone else said, how is it going with this person?
(19:26):
And I said, well, like with most new people, their mistakes
this person's making mistakes. But what I like about their mistakes, their
mistakes of action. And that makes a difference because mistakes of
action means they're doing stuff and it's easy to adjust. I
like mistakes of action. Alright. This one this next one hits close to
home. Someone this person, they're on their magic seat.
(19:49):
They're responsible for a lot of people. They're trying to change the
culture, and they describe the situation. And Lee
told them, you're not being as tough as you say you
are. And that one hits close to me because sometimes
I'm not as tough as I need to be. I don't mind saying that the
one thing Lee reminds me of more than he
(20:11):
should have to is you're too soft. So, you
know, may that's it. So and that what I took from this,
sometimes we have the idea this is how things are going, but you tell
it to someone else and they hear the details and then they say, no. It's
not going the way you think it's going. Yeah. So true. With that
right culture, you know, with that right relationship that you have with those around you,
(20:34):
whether they're above you or below you, it certainly certainly can feel like
you gotta really sometimes kinda dance around some things. But just to
take ownership of it, step into it, be tough when necessary. They
will respect you for it. Absolutely. Yeah. That's right. Okay. Here's
point number nine. I think it's a great one to end on. Lee
told somebody there's not much competition for being
(20:56):
great. Oh my gosh.
That's so I mean, I I remember that. You're right. It's like
yeah. Absolutely. The the road less traveled is less traveled because nobody
seems to wanna go down there. Right? And that's where the great people go. Well,
David, I've used this episode to bring up nine
points I remembered and learned from the Creating Magic Mastermind.
(21:18):
You don't have your notes in front of you. I'm putting you on the spot.
But does anything for a special tenth point, does
anything come into mind that you remembered from the mastermind?
Oh, I remember that I wanna go back for sure.
Because as we kind of alluded in the beginning, not only do I get a
great amount of value by spending more quality time with you, Jody, and and here
(21:40):
in the wisdom of Lee, but the wisdom of the crowd is just
so it ignites a fire in me. It makes me feel like, yes, I too
can take advantage of all this stuff. And and you're in there with peers that
are going through very similar challenges or have just solved the problem you're trying to
do. So it is it's just a great environment. Just a really great
environment that, I think you can thrive in. And, with as busy as
(22:02):
we are nowadays, you know, I've been in masterminds that met on a regular
basis. I love yours because there's some there's some time to spread out between the
two so you can go and implement and create, you know, new opportunities and challenge
that you'll need help for the next go around or learn something that you can
share passionately back to the group. So that's that's pretty powerful as well.
Yeah. Alright. Wonderful. Well, the next one, David said
(22:22):
he's wants to go back. The next one, October
20 20 five, October in Orlando will be the next
one, and they always sell out. The next one will sell out.
It'll be a great time. It is my favorite event. I think
it's a great example also of the
great working relationship Lee and I have because I'm the
(22:44):
showrunner. I make sure we get people there. I set everything
up. I make sure people have a great time, and I make
sure Lee is set up to do what Lee
does. And that that's why Lee and I work together so well
because I just make sure that Lee
has the perfect setting to do what Lee Cockrell does best.
(23:06):
If you want to experience the next Creating Magic Mastermind,
well, you can listen to Creating Disney Magic because we'll talk about it there
or just go ahead and send me an email,
jody@jodymayberry.com, and I will send you all the
details. And from the sounds of it, if you join us, you might get
to meet David Hancock as well. That's right. What an honor and
(23:26):
privilege for me that would be. Alright,
David. It has been fantastic for you to join me. And I
should say, before we say goodbye to David, if you enjoy the
witty banter of Jody Mayberry and David Hancock together, check out
the podcast, Morgan James Radio, where David and I
have done episodes together for many years now.
(23:48):
Indeed. Alright. Thank you so much, David, and thank you
for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show.
Y'all need something sweet. It's Sugar Jay.
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