#81: Coaches Roundtable (skinny fat, back pain, fitness trackers)

From tracking myths to training injuries, we break down the biggest questions holding lifters back. This episode of The Supra Human Show delivers straight forward answers for everyone serious about results. Dr. Taylor Waters and Ben Olliver tackle the most common roadblocks in training, from ineffective glute routines and unrealistic fat-loss goals to misunderstood injuries and calorie tracking myths.

You’ll learn how to train smarter with progressive compound movements, manage setbacks without quitting, align your plan with real-life motivation, and stop relying on wearables that lie about your output. Whether you’re chasing strength, aesthetics, or just want to stop running in circles, this Q&A cuts through the noise with practical strategies that work.

Chapters:

(0:00) Introduction

(01:22) How to Build Your Glutes

(09:13) Skinny Fat Strategy: Cut or Bulk First?

(16:35) Training Through Injury: Fixing Lower Back Pain

(32:34) Can Women Stay Lean Year-Round? The Real Answer

(42:06) Fitness Tracker Falsities: Track Progress the Right Way

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Interested in joining the team? We are always looking for high performers to join our mission to achieve elite level performance in fitness, nutrition and mindset. View our current career opportunities: https://www.suprahuman.com/careers

Results may vary depending on your condition, starting weight, and commitment to the program.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
If someone's been training a fewyears and they're still looking
skinny fat, then it is going to be fat loss.
But if someone is a complete beginner, maybe it's like a 1718
year old that's skinny fat, never lifted weights, you never
really followed a diet. You're probably going to get a
really good recomp effect from just eating enough protein,
eating enough food, and trainingreally hard.
How realistic. Is it for a woman to have ABS

(00:20):
and defying legs year round? I think there's a large genetic
component when it comes to ABS with women.
Split, squat, reverse lunge, a good Romanian dead and a decent
what pattern? Select those movements.
That's where some of the common errors we've just listed here.
I'm Ryan Stevens, Doctor Taylor Waters.
I'm Ben Oliver. Welcome to the Superhuman show.

(00:41):
Yeah. What's up guys?
Welcome to the Superhuman Show with your host Ben Oliver and
Doctor Taylor Waters. No, Ryan again.
Again. Retired.
He's done with us now. Retired.
Yeah, he's had enough. He's had enough.
Being the butt of all the jokes.He's he messaged us this morning

(01:03):
and said I'm not coming. Yeah, no reason.
Just just I, I won't be coming. He's done.
Yeah. But anyway, today we have round
table Q&A. So we had some questions come in
and so we'll we'll just, we'll just reel them off so.
Taylor, if you slide yesterday into it, take it away.
Here we go. So question one, I've always had
a flat butt. How do I build up my glutes?

(01:27):
I'm guessing this is from a man in his in his in his 50s.
I wish my dad would stop postingquestions for us.
I'll tell you later. So yeah, I mean, I mean, this
goes this. The rules are the same for men
and women. I know this will be Brett

(01:48):
Contreras will be saying straight away you need to be
doing hip thrusts. Who's got a flat butt himself?
Yeah, this is what I don't mean.He's supposed to like the glute
guy. Surely if you were the glute
guy, you'd have a big set of glutes.
Yeah, he's got absolute. He's like he's got a long back,
Brett Long. Back But yeah, so I I'm not a
fan of Babo hip thrusts just from a practical standpoint.

(02:11):
Like I think they're really uncomfortable on your hips if
you don't have a machine. I, I like the machines.
If you don't have a machine, setting up the bench to make
sure it doesn't topple over whenyou drive into it, setting up
the barbell, getting a foam rollor whatever on your on, on the
bar. I think it, it can and I, I
think it looks simple, but there's a lot of ways to get it

(02:33):
wrong and not get any work on your glutes.
If you have, if you have tight hips and you can't fully extend,
nothing, nothing's happening there.
Like if you're driving through your toes, your quads and your
hip flexors are doing all the work.
I think if if you like the hip, the the thrust movement like is
definitely great. Like I'm a big fan of the thrust

(02:55):
movement to build glutes. Yeah, a barbell hip thrust.
Again, the setup and everything is a pain in the ass.
And it's normally like if I've had hip thrusts in my program,
there's usually a hip thrust like a plate loaded thrust or
there's at least a hip thrust platform where like there's the,
there's the sort of back piece and there's like the rails and

(03:15):
things like. That I'll, I'll do like single
leg but with body weight and I'll, I'll put my back on a
bench and my foot elevated. So there's like an extra extra
range of. Motion and you can load that
quite like with with the. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, I
think one of the best movements for glutes is a a good Bulgarian
split squat. So it like provided that you're

(03:38):
not getting too much knee flexion, so your foot, your
front foot's not too close to the bench because it is a very
core dominant exercise as well. But like that's that.
And like walking lunges have been two of my two of my
favorites. And I think like walking lunges,
I think that the skill requirement is quite low, like a
little bit of balance and stuff,you know, holding dumbbells and

(03:59):
things. But it's I think it's it's a
it's probably one of the most quote UN quote functional
exercises that you can do. But equally I would say, you
know, before you know, Brett supposedly come up with the hip
thrust and invented it. Is that is that what he claimed?
Yeah, yeah. Does he?
Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, I didn't see

(04:21):
anyone doing it before before hedid it.
You could have it, yeah. You know, there's been plenty of
people with great glutes. Yeah, You know, just from doing
squats, Romanian deadlifts you look at?
Sprinters, yeah. Like that hip extension, yeah,
like I was obviously they're they're driving off that running
leg. You see sprinters always thick
ass glutes on them, yeah. I think, I think the, the main
gist is like you need to be doing compound movements

(04:43):
progressively because if you're doing cable kickbacks, your
little glute circuit that burns,you know, just on a map and
you're doing sets of 20 or something, you're doing your
adductive and abductive machinesand stuff like just basically
getting like pumps. Yeah, they, they can be like the
icing on on the cake. But it's no different than like
if someone was like, well, how do I get big biceps?
I'm not going to say, well, you need to pick three different

(05:05):
bicep exercises and do each of them for, for 25 reps and just
get a really solid burn. You're going to say like get
really strong at doing bicep curls.
Yeah. And so it's really looking like,
well, what's the function of your glute?
Do movements that do that function through a full range
and get as strong as humanly possible?
Strong. And the other thing which people
will always miss is make sure you're eating enough food.

(05:26):
Yeah, because like built building muscle is the same for
any muscle where if there's no extra food, you will not build
muscle like unless you're takingPEDs.
Yeah. So it's so it's generally it's
like be prepared to gain some weight.
So maybe the answer is just takePEDs.
I saw, I saw a great video of the day and a guy was like, if
you, if he's like, he's like, ifyou do the basics for three to

(05:48):
five years, you will get huge and he goes and if genetically
you don't like get huge. So I got invented PEDs.
Fair enough. But I think if you're yeah, when
you said about the, the walk in lunge and the and the split
squat one the one exercise that I again, I've never actively
tried to get my glutes massive. It's never been a main a main

(06:08):
goal of mine, but I found doing a split squat like a like a
Bulgarian with the rear elevatedfoot on a Smith machine.
So the balance and everything istaken out of the equation as
well. And then you can get quite a far
stride and not have to worry about, you know, and I found the
the stretch that you get in thatglute.
I remember the first time doing them.

(06:30):
I'm awake at the next day and I was like, Oh my God, I literally
felt felt like I did a night with Dharma.
I was like, what the hell is happened There?
It was. It was rough.
And then that, that's one of themovements where I really
noticed. I think like step UPS can.
Be decent I'm I'm not a fan of them just because like.
If you got balance support is better.

(06:50):
Yeah, and they can also go horribly wrong.
But but also like first for a step up, it has to be a high
step up to get the glute stretched.
Otherwise people are just loading up, you know, doing
these, you know, just quad stepsand it's just.
And you'll see they'll, they'll jump with the back foot.
Yeah. Step 2 legs on a bent of squats.
Now you're doing 1/4 squat I think.
Yeah, elevating the front foot like when you do reverse lunges.

(07:11):
Bulgarians and stuff can. Reverse lunges again.
Yeah, they can spit squat, reverse lunge, a good Romanian
dead, and a decent squat pattern.
If you just like, select those movements, train, train your
glutes 2 to three times a week. Spread those movements over the
course of a week, get really strong and get quite heavy or

(07:32):
like add ten 1520 lbs or whatever necessary over time.
Because I think that's where youknow, some, some of the common
errors we've just listed here are don't trade heavy enough.
The intensity is way too low. The you're focusing on like the
isolation, trying to I isolate the glute and that's it.

(07:52):
You're not doing any big heavy compounds at at all and you
don't eat enough to get progressively heavier over time.
So it's like what what you'll commonly see is they've been the
same weight for five years or they're just constantly trying
to pursue a deficit. Yeah, they and they're just
doing like pump style fluff glute workouts once a week,
maybe twice. And it's like, yeah, you're

(08:13):
never going to build up solid set set of glutes there.
Yeah, it's the I want to get ABSand I also want to build my
glutes. And so we'll pick one, Yeah.
And then and then pursue the other.
Yeah. And if you want a really good
set, accept the fact I'm going to get quite soft over the next
two years. Yeah, quite soft.
But I'm going to get really strong in a thrust movement.

(08:33):
I'm going to get really strong in a in a hip hinge movement.
I'm going to get really strong in a squat pattern and I'm
almost going to train like a power lift though.
But those are my 3 movements. Yeah.
And I'm going to get really strong at those over the next
two years. I'm going to get quite soft and
then I'm going to just cut it all back and then I'm going to
worry about my abs from there. Yeah.
And it's like if that's if you really want to get good glutes

(08:54):
and you follow that blueprint, you're very, you're not going to
have a pancake by the end of it.Yeah, you're going to have
something to sit. On.
I like that. Happy.
Yeah. Question 2.
Here we go. This is something that you
should be quite good at. I'm skinny fat.
Should. Should Should I cut or bulk
first? This is a decision you'll have

(09:16):
to make as a coach, which is whyI said you'd know.
Yeah. So, yeah, being a former skinny,
skinny fat guy, so it was like 9times out of 10, I'm always
going to go fat loss, fat loss. And if someone is, if someone's
been training for a few years and they're still looking skinny

(09:37):
fat, then it is going to be fat loss.
But if someone is a complete beginner and you know, maybe
it's like a like a 1718 year oldthat's skinny fat, never lifted
weights, you know, never really followed a diet, you're probably
going to get a really good recomp effect from just like
eating enough protein, eating enough food and training really
hard. And you like in that situation,

(09:58):
you can drop body fat and build muscle at the same time.
It's like that the newbie gains doesn't last very long, but like
you can, if you do it right, youcan, you can do it.
But if if someone is more experienced, like the typical
client that we might get that looks like that is, you know,
maybe a guy that's mid 40s hundred and 7000 and 80 lbs.
So not significantly overweight,low muscle mass, high levels of

(10:22):
body fat typically around like the hips and kind of chest,
maybe does running or kind of cardio, not a lot of weight
training in that regard. You know, running and sitting,
Yeah. Running and sitting and drinking
wine. And in, in that sense, I'm still
going to probably go for like a,a slight deficit to start.

(10:44):
But just from, you know, cuttingback potentially on the cardio,
proper resistance training, adequate protein, They're going
to probably build a little bit of muscle and get some newbie
gains within that. Because even if someone's been
training for 10 years, if they've been doing it wrong,
they can still experience that kind of six months to one year
of just like crazy progress because they never got it

(11:06):
because they never, they never did it right in the 1st place.
So, but, but again, I would, I would typically lean on fat loss
first because we know if you, ifyou really want to optimize for
muscle building, you need to be in a calorie surplus so that fat
isn't, isn't magically disappearing when you're over
consuming. And let's just see how much

(11:26):
tissue you have at the start. I think you you can go.
Either way, there is, you can always justify, you know, if
you've got no muscle mass and it's like, well, let's just, you
know, work on the basics of likemonitoring your nutrition,
getting big, getting strong. So at least there's a bit of a
foundation of muscle to pull on.Yeah.
Then you can pull down on that. As as you said, which is

(11:47):
normally the way I would lean isgo deficit, get lean 1st and
then whatever muscle you start building.
Then from there, like you, you're a good foundation there.
And now you can start reversing things back up.
I think was really important that you said it then is a
slight surplus. Whichever way you go, don't go
extreme. Don't go like big heavy bulk and
look to gain like 2030 lbs in three months.

(12:10):
And don't obviously go massive fat loss where it's like you're
looking to drop like 2-3 pounds a week either because like you
don't want to risk any muscle loss, any muscle loss.
So it's like if you're in a deficit, you want to make, if
you're, if you're in a small deficit and you're and you're a
newbie, the potential to build muscle is there still.
But it's like if you go in a huge deficit and you're dropping

(12:33):
two 3 lbs with like the ability to accumulate new muscle tissue,
we're just going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.
The, I mean the only, and again,because I'll always listen to
client, to the client and what they want to do and if they're
like, I really just want to be bigger and I kind of say well
look like, you know, we will tryand limit the fat gain as much
as possible. So maybe maybe relatively, your
body fat percentage does go downbecause your body fat amount has

(12:54):
stayed the same and we've increased your weight.
But that's very hard to do. And you know, they're probably
not going to look any better topless.
They're just going to look better in a T-shirt.
But it's, I'm always going to give my recommendations to a
client based on their goals. But if they're like, no, I
really want to, I don't want to get that light or whatever, then
I'll be like, OK, but I, I tend to try and do fat loss because a

(13:16):
lot of the times they're really happy with how they look, even
when they're lighter. And when they realize like, Oh
my God, like, you know, my, my hips have shrunk and I, I look
bigger now, even though I'm 20 lbs lighter.
There their idea of like, oh, I need to be lean at 200 lbs.
Like they don't really realize how big that is.
And it's like, you don't you want to be like 160 and lean and
you'll feel great. You'll look good in clothes.

(13:38):
Like it's awesome. Like no, most guys don't want to
be over 200 lbs and lean like it's it's a pain in the ass.
You are you are definitely closer to wins if you go fat
loss first. Like if you want to go muscle
building first, well you might spend 10 months in a muscle
building phase and then another.Net a few pounds.
And then another six months in fact.
So you're talking 16 months before you've seen any, any

(14:00):
difference like any, any significant difference.
But yeah, I think whatever routeyou choose to go, go subtle,
Yeah. Like you could even sit at
maintenance for a bit and just 100% body come from there.
But yeah, there's the, the biggest thing you don't want to
do is go very heavy in either direction.

(14:21):
I agree. And I think from a from a
coaching standpoint, what you said there, which was key is
sometimes you might have your professional opinion on what is
the best thing to do from a physiological standpoint.
However, you also want to think about where the client's own
motive lies. Yeah.

(14:41):
So if they're like, if, if you think they should go into a fat
loss phase because that's where you think the best wins are
going to come from. And they're like, look, I would
rather just get a bit thicker, fill my sleeves up, get stronger
in the gym. Like that's just really what I
want to do. I'm just going to lean into that
because I'd much rather lean into their own motive than try
to pull them away and go on the other.
Direction, if they, if they've been called skinny their whole

(15:02):
life, then the idea as soon as they see that scale start to
come down, they're going to freak out and be like, the
program's not working. And and so we, This is why we do
our kind of our in depth on boarding calls because we're
looking at what makes them tick,you know, and what, what
motivates them and stuff as well.
Because it's act like you said, if, if they've had previous
experiences where, you know, ex-girlfriend called them skinny

(15:26):
and thought they were small. And it's like the idea of now
them getting smaller, even just you saying we're going to have
to get smaller before we get bigger.
They're like, no, then it's likeeven even if, even if you
convince them on that one call, you're going to be fighting
upstream the whole time because they're psychologically they're
not going to want to do it. As soon as something gets a
little bit tough, like they feelany sort of resistance, they're
going to fall off plan because that motive is just, it's not

(15:48):
that high. Like they're basically, they're
only doing it because you've told them to and that's not
going to be enough. When they get faced with, oh,
we're going out for meals here. They're being offered this, they
go and travel in. They haven't prepared.
As soon as the obstacles start to pop up, they're just going to
crumble because they're like, ah, well, yeah, I'm, I'm only
doing it because he told me to. And, and you know, it's not
actually what I want. So I think it's always, always

(16:09):
worth asking the question of where would you want to go 1st?
And then be like, OK, And if that, if that aligns with you
with, with your own ideas, then then great.
But if not, you always want to factor that stuff in.
Yeah, but typically fat loss, subtle adjustments.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good one.
Right. What do we got?
Yeah, again, another one for youand this is actually more for

(16:32):
you. I keep injuring my lower back
when lifting, should I stop? Never.
You should keep going. Yeah.
What? Have you got how How many discs?
555 yeah, 5 left. Yeah, the rest is dust.
I mean, it's so there's so many factors that will go into, I

(16:55):
mean, any injury, but lower backin particular because I mean,
everyone gets slight disc degeneration just as you age.
Everyone has slight herniations.They may just be asymptomatic
and you know, and then you couldhave another herniation, which
is right on your psychic nerve and you're in excruciating pain
and it's debilitating. So it's first I would look at,

(17:19):
well, what's the, what's, what movements are you doing?
Which is causing the lower like straining your lower back.
Let's just say, like for this example, it's they're hurting
their back in the gym. I'm first going to say, well,
what movement? Yeah, I think, I think that's
what it was because they they keep starting lifting, they
hurt, they're back, they're out and.
Then they I would say like, well, like talk me through your
routine. Are they, are they warming up?
Are they, you know, doing any kind of mobility or whatever.

(17:42):
But more than anything, I'm justgoing to watch them move in the
movements that are lower back dominance.
Like you're deadlifts, you're audio, you're squats and stuff.
And if there's like a glare glaring issue, then I may be
like, you're in no position to do back squats or debtors right
now. We need to work on these other
things. Yeah, but if say their form is
good and it's just and it's hurting their back, then I'm
probably going to look at, you know, other other areas, you

(18:05):
know, whether it's like hip flexes, glutes, quads.
Is it they're just using too much weight?
Is it that they're doing those movements too often and it's
like an overuse injury? And then I'm recovering in
between because you'll get microfractures on your on your discs,
like every time you deadlift, you get like these tiny, tiny
fractures. And if you like, anytime you

(18:26):
squat with that after like compress your spine.
And so any, any time, if you're not letting those micro factors
fully heal, you get more micro factors and more and more.
And then that eventually leads to that herniation.
So yeah, I would look at technique.
I would look at programming, because a lot of times injuries
are caused by poor programming. Yeah, whether it's exercise

(18:46):
sequencing, volume, frequency, the amount of weight used, like
a lot of it can be solved just through appropriate programming.
But then, you know, lastly, I would say, well, what's your
goal? You know, because it you know,
if it's like me, like I love squatting and dead lifting.
And so my goal is to be good at those movements because I enjoy

(19:09):
doing them. If my goal was only body
composition or fitness or whatever it was or looking good,
I know there is 0 need to do those movements and I could
still get all the results. But I have an emotional
attachment to those exercises soI like to do them.
So I would first make that have that conversation say like you
know, like is it that you reallywant to be able to do these

(19:31):
movements or are you cool just dropping them out?
And it's a balance as well because if you always dropped
out movements that 'cause you issues, you're just going to
slowly whittle down that list over time.
And then it's I can only do 3 movements and everything else
hurts because you're not addressing any underlying
issues. But at the same time, there may
be some movements where your mechanics just aren't suited to,

(19:56):
you know, like a six for 8 basketball player is never going
to be a good squatter because they've got such long femurs and
so they can't do an upright squat.
Or very rarely they can because.Again, just the length of their
femurs, they're sat back like a good morning.
So they're probably going to getsome lower back strain.
So then I would be doing like high, high bar trap bar
deadlifts, Bulgarians lunges, things like that.

(20:20):
So it's, it's going to depend onthe person, but I, I think the
two common things that people will do is they don't put their
back in awkward positions. And so you get like, and this is
what I did for years, I got really, really good at bracing.
So like, you know, it's like I could brace under a squat and my

(20:41):
vertebrae are like a stack of bricks.
But then if that brick like moves by an angle, the whole
thing topples. And then equally you got people
that say like a ballerina, for example, all they do is mobility
and they're like a feather wherelike they can bend and they're
flexible and stuff. But then you put any load on it
and it will just get smashed. And so it's it's getting a

(21:05):
balance between the two where you need to be at a brace, but
you also need need to be able tomove your rib, rib cage and kind
of pelvis appropriately. And you do that by, you know,
awkward object lifting, rotationmovements, rounding your back
and training that under load, training, you know, your abs
through full flexion and extension and really taking your

(21:28):
time easing into those movements.
Because I mean, it's taken me six months to be able to do like
a full GHD setup pain free. Because when we, when we first
did them, I couldn't, I literally couldn't go down
because I thought my back was just going to snap.
And whereas now, you know, I cando them, but that's taken months
to like slowly train to get my abs to like be able to release

(21:49):
and be like, Nope, you're not going to die.
So yeah, I think there's a few aspects to it.
Some of the key things you said there is like, well, one, when
someone says should I stop? No, very unlikely.
You should stop training. Obviously if you've got some
serious issues going on that need to be addressed by a
surgeon, then yeah, you probablyshould.

(22:09):
But it's like normally when people get injured is they've
put their body under some sort of stress that, that it's unable
to tolerate. So like when you see someone get
injured, it's again, usually like their, their perception of
what their back can tolerate is way too high.
So they'll go into a gym and be like, oh, well, you know, my, my

(22:31):
mate dad lifts 170 kilos or whatever.
So I can, I, I can do like turn 30, but you haven't picked up a
box of the floor in three years.And for some reason you think
you can just deadlift a ton 30 And it's like, well, OK, let's,
let's start. Just so then they go in and then
my back's gone. Or it's like they sit in a chair

(22:53):
all day and that's all they do. And they go into a gym and they
want to start lugging weights around.
Yeah. And it's like, you need to,
especially with your back, like you said it, you need to
progress up really slowly. Like I've never had a great
lower back. And one of the things that I've
done which has really improved it is lifting with a rounded
spine. So going through like full range

(23:14):
of motion, big rounded spine. And when I first started
lifting, like I could have lifted more, but I was lifting
like 30 kilos. I was like a 30K lift and I
could have pulled more but I waslike, my back feels so I feel so
nervous just bending over with arounded spine.
And then I went progress and I've been doing them for months
and months now and I'm up to 60 kilos.

(23:35):
So I, I, I, I've doubled the load, but it's been really
progressive over time. It's been really slow.
And even now at 60 kilos, I knowI could lift 70 and 80, but I'm
like, I'm not moving up to 65 until 60 feels so comfortable.
There's no more to squeeze out. Here it's great.
It's great though, because then when if you are doing like a

(23:58):
conventional deadlift, when it starts getting heavy and your
back starts to round, it's not an unfamiliar position.
Yes, because that's where like Iwould be really good at bracing.
But then if I broke that chain slightly back goes.
Yeah, because it's like where you've never trained with a
rounded back. So I wish I started, you know,
doing some of that stuff. But again, it's the way you're
taught. It's like keep your back
straight and never bend your back under underweight.

(24:19):
And you know, you're taught to be a breeze block or a fridge
and it's like, and then you've got no, you know, sight like
your, your intercostal muscles kind of just get stuck.
And so one of the movements which I always do now is like a
45° like side bend where like the purpose of it isn't to like
train my obliques, It's to breathe as deeply as I can into

(24:40):
my rib cage to get all of that to expand.
And so I'm like, I'm, I'm reaching and taking a deep
breath in and trying to really stretch everything out.
And so even before I train now, I'll, you know, hang from a pull
up bar on one side and lean in and breathe into my ribs and
kind of just get everything, everything moving.
And that, that's been a game changer for me over, over this

(25:01):
last, you know, like 10 months or so.
You know, my, my strength is like it's, it's getting back to
kind of peak, you know, where, where it was.
And, you know, that's like no belt, no knee sleeves, nothing
like that. But yeah, you have to.
And, and I know this is about back injuries, but like, you
know, I, I see endless people inthe gym wearing knee sleeves for

(25:23):
like their warm up sets and stuff.
And obviously 'cause it gives you a mechanical advantage.
But then they'll say I've got bad knees, We got bad knees.
You fucking went knee sleeves all the time.
Yeah. And so it's like how your knees
gonna get stronger 'cause they're only gonna get weaker
because you're gonna rely on them more and more.
And then that's why then becausethey get weaker, you then have
to wear your knee sleeves for all of your warm up sets.
You know, now when you're doing bicep codes, you're wearing your

(25:44):
knee sleeves and you're wearing your weight belt and you're just
leaning over to pick up dumbbells because you're not
training it. Whereas I've never had knee
injuries. And it's, it's because I've
always trained super knee flexion without knee sleeves.
And, and I've always, I've always done it like that.
And, and so obviously there's like a genetic component and
stuff as well. But like, I think the reason
why, you know, I think most people that have experienced the

(26:08):
kind of back injuries that I've had, they wouldn't go near a
barbell ever again. And I've got clients with like,
I've got herniated disc. I can't squat.
And I'm like, that's bullshit. Like you're, you haven't
rehabbed it properly and you're scared to do it again, which is
fine. Like nothing wrong with that.
But it's like your body will naturally heal those discs.
Like you're like, if you've got a disc herniation, you're like,

(26:30):
like white blood cells will slowly start chipping away at
that herniation and over time itwill heal itself.
Like that disc will just be smaller.
And so like one of the biggest things that I see with people
with bad backs is like they attach it to their identity
where it's like, I've got a bad back.
And I've stopped saying that nowbecause I because in my head I

(26:51):
was like, do I it's like I outlift most people like with
lower back dominant movements like is there, they've got a bad
back, they've got a week back. So it's if you keep thinking
I've got a bad back week. You've got a week back.
Yeah, it's like, you know, I'll go and carry on.
But it's like if I always say like I need to be, I need to be
careful my back, then I'm alwaysgoing to psych myself out.

(27:12):
Whereas in my head, if I'm like my back's strong as shit, like
even though I've injured it, it's like I can do round back
deadlifts. I can do sandbag carries.
I can, I can do heavy deadlifts.I can do heavy squats.
Like do I have a bad back? Like, no, you've just injured it
a few times. Yeah, I guess that's fine.
Yeah, I think for a lot of people it's you've got a week
back and you try to put your back through stress that it

(27:33):
can't tolerate and it gets injured all the time.
But the problem is if then if your solution to that is, well,
I'm just never, I'm not going todo anything with it.
There is going to be a time whenyou need to rely on using your
back at some point, whether it'sto pick a child up, whether it's
to move a shopping bag, whether it's to get something from a
car. And if it's not, if it can't not
even tolerate the most simple ofmovement, it's going to get
injured every time you put it under some stress.

(27:56):
And it's, it will only get again, just like anything, it
will only your body will only adapt to the stress that you put
it under. So it's like again, another one
for for me now is, is my knees. So like I haven't run any sort
of distance since I was in school.
I literally did like I was a decent cross country runner in
school. After that it was skiing,

(28:19):
bodybuilding as a goalkeeper in football.
So even in a run, a sport where there's running, I was in the
position that didn't run. So like, I've never had to run
very much tall. And over that time with
bodybuilding, I gained 30 kilos or whatever the hell it was.
So now when I started to run, like I've got the fitness to
run, Yeah, excellent. A distance.
So I think I'll go out and do that.
And I go and I'm my IT band flares up.

(28:41):
So it's like, and I in my head, I'm like, Oh, well, I can run,
say 10 kilometers. No, you can't.
Your body can't tolerate like aerobically you can, but your
body cannot tolerate running that far because it gets painful
and it gets injured. So you've just got to be really
realistic and scale things back to be like, how again, for the
people who, who squat, you said with like the knees, they're

(29:03):
like, oh, I can squat 200 kilos.You can't because you take the
knee sleeves off and you can't squat it.
It's like, how much can you squat without those things?
That's how much you can squat. It's like, oh, but yeah, but my
knees. Yeah.
Because you've got weak knees. So it's like, how about you work
on getting your knees strong? Because, yeah, don't be wrong.
You've got the ability to move ahigher amount of weight, but the
problem is your knees are too weak and they can't tolerate

(29:24):
that weight either. So you the goal is to get the
knees up to a point as to where they can tolerate that weight.
And if you constantly strap themand leave them, you they're
never going to get there. They're always going to be the
step behind. I think it's also just.
Except if you're. It's like in that example, if
your knees hurt, it's like, well, they're probably going to
hurt for a while whilst they getstronger.
Like whilst I was rehabbing my back, it's like it didn't feel

(29:46):
good when I was training it. Like it felt like my back hurt.
But it's like when it's only going to get better by training
it through it. So it's learning the difference
between like true pain, discomfort, you know, and
because typically through injuries, you know, one of our
coaches, Nikki, like she had knee surgery and it's like you
sort of going through a rehab and it was like agony.

(30:08):
And it's like, yeah, ain't fun. But it's like you have to like
load, load it and, and take it through the range of motion.
So, you know, do it like when I first did like my, the, the side
bends, I, I thought like my pelvis was going to like snap
and I was like, it's not going to snap like, and it's, and I
was like, it's like really awkward and stiff and, and
stuff. And then next time it was a bit

(30:29):
easier and and then it gets easier and easier, but like you
have to kind of get through thatdiscomfort and it's not ignoring
the signs, but you're probably going to be like a three out of
10. You know it shouldn't be a nine,
but like. There.
There should be some discomfort like no different than elbow
tendonitis, you know, wrist pain, things like that.
It's like, you know, shoulder issues.

(30:50):
If you never train your your shoulders through like an area
that it hurts like, well there'ssomething that's stronger then
isn't. It it's literally relevant to me
now. So I've been I still get I had
shoulder surgery like 18 months ago, whatever it was, and I've I
rehabbed it somewhat. And then once I was able to do a
lot of movements, I was like thethe rest will figure itself out
type thing. And then what I've noticed is I

(31:12):
still on some training days after that, my shoulder still
hurts, but it's strange because I'm looking and I'm like, well,
that training day was the same as the one before and it didn't
hurt that time. So why is it hitting now type
thing? And I'm trying to figure it out.
And then after looking into it alittle bit more is I've got like
all my range of motion in that left shoulder is fine apart from
the external rotation. Like this arm rotates right back

(31:35):
here and this one doesn't. It's like here.
So I like there's a big gap. So what happens is like when I'm
doing like pull ups, for example, and it's forcing it
into external rotation, it's pulling and it's and it's
yanking on it. So then what I've been doing now
is just focusing on getting thatexternal rotation back because
that seems to be where the issuelies.
And it does hurt like I'm on a towel on the, on the, the upper

(31:55):
arm and I'm rotating the dumbbell back and then I can see
it's, it's not there. But eventually over the next 5-6
months, I'll get it back there. And then when I do things like
pull up stuff, it's not going tohurt as much.
But it's like it's just about being really clear with where
you are now and then very gradually progressing it up to
where you want to get to. That's likely going to be your

(32:17):
best option. Again, we're talking about
someone who hasn't got real significant back injuries, who
needs an operation or whatever, but there's normally somewhere
you can scale it back to to thenget it moving forward.
Yeah. Yeah, good answer you.
Came you came to the right case there.
We're literally falling apart. Case is not a female base
question. So we've got How realistic is it

(32:39):
for a woman to have abs and defined legs year round?
It's, it's realistic, but it's, it's what you're willing to do.
I think there's a large genetic component when it comes to ABS
with, with women of women and men, I guess.

(32:59):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like again, some, some
guys have the perfectly symmetrical 8 pack, other guys
have a four pack. Like it's, it's going to vary
and like you can't do anything about that.
You can't do anything about those muscle insertions,
obviously, if you've had kids, you know, or cesarean or
something, and that's going to impact, you know, stomach
lining, abdominal lining and stuff like that.

(33:21):
In terms of body fat distribution, a lot of it's
genetic. You know, some people will store
fat on their legs, their midsection, Some guys will store
it on their, their chest and their shoulders, you know, more
than their, their legs. So I don't, I don't want to say
it's, it's not doable, but you know, I think it's, it's the
same for guys. So like for me to maintain sub

(33:42):
10% body fat, my quality of lifedeclines because the amount of
food that I like to eat and how I like to live doesn't really
cater towards sub 10% body fat year round.
Because I like to lift heavy weights.
I like to eat a lot of food and and enjoy myself and not be

(34:03):
meticulous with my diet constantly.
But for me that is required to keep that low level body fat.
And then you've got someone likeRyan that, you know, he can sit
there pretty effortlessly and healways has.
Whereas, you know, I, I was an overweight kid.
He's always been in shape, you know, he's never been fat.
And so. I've seen him a bit.
Avi But now, yeah, yeah. So I, I think there is a, there

(34:25):
is a huge genetic component as far as like, like the SAT point
and I think that can change overtime.
But you know, if I, if I got thesub 10% body fat and then I
stayed there for a couple of years, I think like it would be
easier then, but that, that first year would be tough
because I'd have to be on it. And you know, it's like, I can't
overeat. I need to do X amount of

(34:46):
activity and, and those kind of things.
Whereas I I tend to feel my bestaround 15, you know?
Similar. Yeah, I'm, I'm more, I think
like you than I am like Ryan, although I do stay somewhat
lean. This is probably the over the
last year, the lean I've hung about in.
But yeah, like I if I go too lean, I I start to.

(35:08):
Feel like I, I feel like my, my appetite, my energy levels start
to drop, like my strength in thegym starts to go down, whether
that's like a slight change in levers or just maybe it's
mental, you know, and like, you know, when you when your
midsection starts to get real skinny and you put weight on
your on your back, you're kind of like, I feel like I'm going
to snapping up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(35:28):
But then, you know, you could put that down to like, are you
dehydrated? Is it like you're fatigued?
Is it depleted from your calories and all, all of those
things? But generally I just, I find if
I, I find maintaining where I amnow quite easy.
And that means I can enjoy my cappuccinos, pastries, pizza,

(35:49):
you know, generally I stay on track with my food because
that's just how I how I eat now.But I can enjoy my training.
I can recover from my training. I can do extra stuff, you know,
and still recover from it. So what I mean, it's exactly the
same for women. I think, again, genetically, men
can handle being a lower body fat without it disrupting

(36:10):
hormones. And we're a bit more resilient
from a hormonal standpoint. Obviously we don't have
menstrual cycles and stuff and that can be impacted.
But again, that can be impacted by low calorie intake, excessive
exercise, low body fat levels. It's not just one thing because
you can get some women that are super lean that are perfectly
fine. You got other women where they

(36:31):
drop below 20% and maybe they lose their menstrual cycle,
maybe they lose it anyway. And so it's like there's, so
there's so many variables that go into it.
So I, I don't want to say it's, it's not doable, but from, from
what I've seen, generally speaking, a outline of ABS and

(36:52):
defined legs, I think is doable.I think having like a ripped 6
pack, I don't know if it's optimal for, for women or
sustainable. You know, if, if you're an elite
athlete like Sprint, like you look at the Jamaican Sprint
team, it's like they're ripped. But then but then again, you can
look at genetics where like their hip structure isn't as

(37:16):
feminine, they have more masculine traits and maybe
that's down to genetics or hormones or whatever it is.
But that's what makes them a good sprinter because their
mechanics are suited towards like sprinting.
They have the Q angle of their hips.
You look at most elite female athletes at the Olympics that
are in like the power sports, they tend to have the broader
shoulders, the narrower hips, more like a more masculine

(37:40):
shaped physique because that stereotypically masculine
leverage wise, muscle insertion wise, it caters more to produce
force. Like that's just fact.
So they may be may find it easier to maintain lower body
fat percentages. But yeah, like, again, I hate, I
don't really like these questions because it's like the
answer is it depends. I'm like, I need to see what you

(38:01):
look like, you know, what you'velooked like over the past 10
years. What how disciplined you are,
what your lifestyle is like, what your ABS look like, you
know, and where you store your body fat to then go, yeah, you
could do that. Or like, Nah, it's putting them
in the cards for you. It's like for some people it's
very realistic. Like for some people, like they,
they actually do it and it doesn't and they do it very well

(38:23):
and very easy. I think, again, from experience
working with people, yeah, like generally getting just like a
somewhat moderately lower level of body fat as to where you've
got some muscle detail that's generally achievable for most
people and sustainable for most people.
If you're willing to tolerate the lifestyle that would go

(38:44):
along with that as well. Like I always say to people, you
know, it's not necessarily aboutwhat you want, it's what's what
lifestyle or what work are you willing to tolerate.
Like if you couldn't figure thatout, then you'll be able to and
then whatever that gets you. That's like when, when you're
looking at sustainable, that's where it's like, because like
you can go, Oh, I just want to achieve this thing and I'm

(39:05):
willing to do whatever it takes to get that on that date.
Fine. But if you're looking at what
are you willing to sustain over long periods, But what lifestyle
are you willing to live over long periods?
Because it's like if, if that lifestyle you're willing to
tolerate, you know, being quite meticulous with your diets,
being pretty active, if it's nota natural accumulation of, of,
of activity. But then if you're willing to do

(39:26):
that, well, then OK, yeah, it's for you.
It might be quite realistic. But if you're not willing to
tolerate that well, then it's not going to be realistic.
So that that's the word realistic.
Because if the question was, is it possible?
Is it anyone, anyone can get stupid lean like you may have to
go really, really low calorie, really high output.
You may have to lose your menstrual cycle.

(39:47):
You know, you're going to be doing 2 hours of cardio a day
like, and then and then it's, isthat sustainable if you want to
do it like it is? But if you want that to be a
life. But then, yeah, if someone's
like, I work a desk job, I only have time to work out four hours
a week. You know, the kids have sports
at weekends. And so it's hard for me to prep.
Is it realistic for me to look like a bikini model year round?

(40:10):
I'll be like, it's going to be areal uphill battle.
You know, it's like you're goingto really, really struggle with
that. So it is so context dependent.
And this is where like you. You never want to kind of tell
someone to set like low expectations, but you also have
to be realistic with what's attainable based on someones
lifestyle. Because again, like we'll have

(40:32):
guys that are like, oh, you know, I want to look like this
guy. And they pull up like a men's
health guy. It's like, well, it's his job to
look like that. He has, he's been doing it for
20 years and he, you know, prepshis meals as a meal prep
company. He can afford 3 hours a day to
do his cardio, do his weight training and lives a very low
stress life. And you know, get sponsors and
stuff. Do you have any of those things?

(40:53):
And it's like, no, I've got 4 kids, a wife that hates me, like
50 hour work week, you know, I only have X amount of time to
train. I've got a home gym.
Can I still do it? And you're like, probably not
like it's like and that's not. From my.
Experience, yeah. And it's not, it's not to like
be a Debbie Downer, but it's like for me to go, yeah,
absolutely we can. We can have you looking at Ryan

(41:15):
Terry this year. Yeah.
It's like, no, like, because if you could, I'll be doing it.
So you have to kind of paint therealistic picture for people.
And that's not to set low expectations, but to set
realistic expectations, yeah. Yeah, and it's again, once
you've, if you're looking at what, what can I sustain over

(41:35):
time? Well, be very clear with the
lifestyle you're willing to tolerate over time.
Live that for 12 months, see what rig you're in.
Yeah. And that's, and that's the one
that you're willing to tolerate.That's that's the one that's
realistic for you. Yeah.
Put it that way. Yeah.
Sweet. Good question.
Some female ones. Yeah.
Again, you're coming to the wrong guy about females, the
wrong people about females. Yeah.

(41:56):
Geez right I use 1 so my trackersays maintenance is 3200
calories but I'm eating 2700 arenot losing weight.
Is my body broken? Yes, yeah, next question.
Yeah. So I I'm really not a fan of the
calorie trackers. No, that and you can you can

(42:19):
pull up a few studies where theycan be off by about 50% in terms
of in terms of calorie expenditure.
So you know, they're, they're looking at movement and heart
rate as a means to calculate expenditure.
It it's not taken into factor your fitness levels, your
movement efficiency. Body.
Composition what you, what your habitual calorie intake has been

(42:40):
for the last couple of years, which will absolutely impact
your metabolic rate. So it's it's very, very general,
like the only way to truly see how many calories someone
expends is through doubly labeled water, which is very,
very expensive. They sell it in Tesco's today.
Gary Brecker doubly level water,which is a very expensive water

(43:05):
where it, I, I don't even know. I didn't want to claim to know,
but it's like you'll basically drink it, eat what you eat for
the day. And then it, they, they have
like tracers in the water that like you obviously have to,
anytime you go to the bathroom, you keep it and you inject into
yourself like like what's his vase?

(43:27):
But then you, they basically analyse your urine And then when
the W labeled water passes through, they're able to kind of
work out how many calories you've expended through carbon
dioxide. I don't know, I don't even know
what to do. But then the simpler way is
indirect calorimetry, which is they'll put you in a sealed
chamber in a lab and they will measure all of the CO2 in that
chamber before you go in. And then when you go in, what

(43:49):
you add to it. And so from that CO2, they'll
work out how much fat you've broken down, how much
carbohydrates you've broken downto break it down into ATB and
CO2 as the, as the kind of the side product of it.
And so we, we used to do it in, in labs to work out respiratory
exchange ratio. So you could, you could
basically work out what's the ratio of fat to carbs that

(44:12):
you're burning through activity.And you basically put a mask on
and breathe into these big bags.And then those bags then get put
into a machine. It analyzes the CO2 content.
And then you can pull that back and say, well, what's the ratio?
And you could say like you're burning 60% carbohydrates, 90%
or whatever. But that's the only real way of
doing it. And so I would love to invent

(44:35):
like even if you like a mask that you could wear for a day
and then but again, you won't beable to eat.
So it's like like a mask for a day that would just track that
CO2 going through it like a portable mask.
And then just like as like a test, but.
It's always going to change overtime as well, like your activity
levels sometimes will change and, and you might, you might

(44:55):
sit more at certain times. And then so it's just, it's
almost like you just need a, a starting point to start
monitoring from and then you just basically control your
dietary behaviours until you getthe response that you're
actually looking for. Yeah.
And we, we know that calorie trackers in terms of measuring

(45:17):
intake are quite accurate. If you're weighing your food in
your track and you are, your skill set is, you know,
competent, if you're doing it properly, you can, you can track
your calorie intake very, very well.
And so that's like, that's like,so you basically have your
calorie intake, your body weightand calorie expenditure.

(45:39):
And so theoretically, if you knew the exact expenditure and
the calorie intake, you could work out the body weight
difference. But then again, you'd have to
factor in water, you know, every, everything else, sweat,
the sweat rate, everything. If you have calorie intake and
or if you have expenditure and body weight, you should be able
to work out well. Like you must have eaten this

(46:01):
much to burn that much. Again, very, very ineffective.
If we have intake and body weight differential, we can kind
of estimate the expenditure based on the body weight
difference because we can weigh ourselves very accurately and we
can track our intake very, very accurately.
So we're almost like estimating that third part of the equation
because it's the most practical,it's the most accurate and it's

(46:24):
the most like sustainable over long term.
And so in that sense, like I would say, well, the either
you're 1, assuming the 2700 is accurate, then I would say,
well, the expenditure is incorrect then, because if
you're not losing weight, then by definition, you're not in a
calorie deficit. So I would ignore the tracker
and weigh yourself and then reduce your calorie intake until

(46:46):
you start dropping weight. Because we, there's so many
different calculators as well oflike your what you, what you
need. And I remember there was, there
was a Polish Porter at university.
We called him Polish Peat and this big Polish guy I sway was
like a bare knuckle fighter before, before he was if

(47:07):
someone's Polish Pete, he's probably a bad tattoos on his
knuckles or he's going to be butreally, really nice guy.
And he and he would come into the gym and he would he started
tracking his food using my fitness power, trying to lose
some weight. And he would say like, oh, like
where where should my calorie start?
And I'd say that, you know, start 2500, weigh yourself, see
where it goes. And he goes not not too low.
And I was like try it see how much weight you drop.

(47:28):
If you drop too fast, bump it up.
If you don't drop enough, lower is OK.
Next day I use the calculator online it says I should be 2800
like is 2500 too low? And I was like, you're just
using it as a means to justify eating more food, Pete, I was
like, have you dropped any weight?
And he's like, no, I was like, then how are you going to drop
me on 2800? And then he'd come back the next
day and be like, I do this othercalculation, 3100.

(47:50):
And I'm like, Pete. And he was like, looking for a
means to justify eating more food, whereas it's like, are you
losing weight on 2500? No.
So how is eating more going to help you lose weight?
Yeah. So it was like, and it was like
weeks of it. And I like, I was getting quite
annoyed with him after a while. And I was like, I was like,
Pete, you're still fat. I was like you, we don't need to
just like eat more food. And and then finally he like

(48:13):
stuck with a 2500 and he was dropping like kilos every week
and getting great results. And it's like mate, just like it
like the like real world data isalways going to be any preset
calculator. Well, think those three things
you listed there like when you look at the gold standard to
what we have available to us. Nutrition tracking if again, if
done right, you know, maybe a 1010% discrepancy, but that's

(48:36):
still pretty good scale data as you got 1/2 decent set of
scales. Again, it's sub 10% like it's
going to be consistent. Whether it's going to be good,
consistent, yeah. And then you've got things like
calorie trackers, as you said, 50% discrepancy.
Yeah. So now it's like, OK, well, if
we remove that one from the equation and just focus on the
ones that give us good information, now we can use

(48:59):
those two to sort of figure out the third one in a what?
Much more, much more dialed in way than than just going for
that third one itself. You can just remove that from
the equation, focus on the two that actually give us good
quality data and then use that to make your, your calls.
But yeah, it's normally like a guy like this or a female like
this, whoever it is, it's like if you're coming at 3200 and

(49:22):
then like potentially you overestimated how much you move
and that's what you put into thething.
Or you, you know, your, your fatpercentage is high and your
weight is high. So it went off a weight and then
it gave you a higher calorie intake.
So actually your maintenance maybe is more like 227 and now

(49:42):
you have to work back off 27. But now you've got the
information because you've been tracking as long as accurate 227
and you're maintaining weight. Ah, so now we know you're
roughly at the maintenance mark tracking to around 27.
So now if you work off of that and reduce that down, now you're
going to find roughly where you should beaten.
So no, your body is not broken. You've you had a threshold,

(50:05):
you've monitored the data, the data has given you feedback.
Now you can make an informed decision moving forward.
Yeah, it's, it's like, I'm just,I'm trying to think of like just
simple, simple analogies. But you know, if, if you had a,
if you had $100 and you walked into a store and there and
you've been looking online at the prices of things and then
you see the item, there's no price tag on it.
You just looked online. And then you're like, that's 50

(50:28):
bucks. And then you go pay for it.
You give you $100 and they give you 10 bucks back.
And you're like, but it said 50 bucks online.
And they're like, I don't know what to tell you.
Like here's a change. And then you're like, oh,
something wrong. And it's like, well, no, like
you've got the price wrong. Like.
And so it's like, ah, maybe the 50 bucks online was incorrect
and it was actually 90. And so it's like we're just

(50:48):
using, we're just using the accurate information.
And like, rather than getting annoyed by like, oh, like this
shopkeeper is an asshole. It's like, no, like you're not
looking at the right price tag. Yeah.
Yeah, but like it was actually adifferent product you saw
online. And it was so.
But yeah, I, because I know so many people that will, you know,
they'll, they'll do a work. I mean, like, oh, burn 800
calories shouldn't work out. I'm like, no, you didn't like

(51:08):
your watch told you you did, butyou didn't because if because if
you did, you'd be dropping 3 lbsa week at this rate and you're
not. So it's, it's, yeah, I, I don't
even look at that as a, as a, asa metric.
The the expenditure calculators,so like what you get on like an
Apple Watch for example, and theonline TD EE calculators,

(51:30):
they're not going to give you good quality information.
They can give you a guide to work off roughly.
You're better off just going off.
Use the information that you know is the most accurate
information to use, and then usethat to make the decisions.
You want to make Yeah, love it too.
Awesome. That's all 5 done.
And that's done, Yeah. Awesome.
Well I hope that was useful for you guys.
Be sure to like and subscribe oniTunes, Spotify, and YouTube and

(51:53):
we will see you next time. If you love this show, please
like, share and leave us a five star review so that we can help
more people. I'm John Matson, Superhuman CEO,
reminding you to always go get what's yours.