August 15, 2025 • 43 mins
What if an injury didn’t end your progress, but made you stronger than ever? In this episode, Ben Olliver, Dr. Taylor Waters, and Ryan Stevens sit down with Coach Nikki Donovan, former psychologist turned CrossFit and strength coach, who has spent over a decade overcoming major injuries while guiding high performers through their own recoveries. With experience on both sides of the process, Nikki shares how to adapt training, protect performance, and maintain momentum when setbacks hit.
They break down the champion’s approach to overcoming both the physical limitations and mental roadblocks that injuries create. From reframing goals to stacking small wins, you’ll learn how elite performers turn adversity into opportunity and come back stronger, physically and mentally. Whether you’re recovering from a surgery or a minor tweak, these principles will help you maintain your edge and protect your identity as a high performer.
Chapters
(00:00) Introduction
(04:12) Why Injuries Impact High Performers Differently
(09:00) Adapting Training to Stay in the Game
(14:04) Overcoming the Fear of Re-Injury
(19:04) Building Confidence Through Progressive Recovery
(25:26) Milestones & Small Wins That Drive Momentum
(30:38) Avoiding the Pitfalls of Rushing Back Too Soon
(36:02) Shifting Identity & Turning Setbacks Into Growth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Injury What champions do to overcome mental struggles that
come with serious injuries. Nikki, you've had a knee injury.
It will resonate with a lot of our clients.
Knee surgeries, back issues, shoulder problems.
I think it'd be really good justto kind of hear a bit of your
story. I've had this injury for 10
years now. I've just had my fifth surgery
on it. When you first get injured, you
have this belief that it's done.Where's that belief come from?
(00:22):
1 you know you're injured and two, you're emotional so you're
just gone to the worst case scenario with clients when they
do get injured, their heart streak just comes to a halt
them. Momentum just stops for most
people. They have that just feeling of
like I'm done. I'm Ryan Stevens.
Doctor Taylor Waters, I'm Ben Oliver.
Welcome to the Superhuman show, Yeah?
What's up everyone? Welcome to the Superhuman Show
(00:43):
with your host. Ben Oliver joined with the Doc
Taylor Waters, Ryan Stevens and special guest coach Nikki
Donovan. So if we if we start or or sweat
more than usual, we don't normally talk to women and the.
Boys seem quiet to me. But this this is this is
probably a good one for you to be on this episode because we're
(01:05):
talking all things injury. So what I mean, I would say what
champions do to overcome the mental struggles that come with
serious injuries and kind of howthey adapt to it.
So I know Nikki, you've had a knee injury for, for quite some
time now. So it's probably good if we kind
(01:26):
of dive into that first and justhow you've, how you've
approached it, how you've approached your training.
The, I guess like the mental toll that it's that it's taken
as well because I think it will probably be very, it will
resonate with a lot of our clients because we do have a lot
of clients that have had knee surgeries, back issues, shoulder
(01:48):
problems. We get a lot of clients that are
ex athletes, maybe they've had an injury in their 20s or 30s
and now they're in their 50s andthey're still kind of managing
it because they didn't manage itproperly then.
So I think it'd be really good just to kind of hear hear a bit
of your story and then we can kind of break it down bit by bit
and then offer some advice for clients that are going through
something similar. Well, it's a very long story, so
(02:10):
I'll keep it short. Yeah, we got, we got 25 minutes.
So yeah, ideally keep it going for the old thing after doing it
again. Well, I've had this injury for
10 years now, so I've had just had my fifth surgery on it and
it was just like a freak accident.
So ACL web show, which happens alot in sports, especially in the
20s, especially as females. I won't go too much down the
(02:30):
physio side, but it's just a high risk really at that age
especially and as a female. But just ended up having surgery
after surgery, they couldn't quite correct it.
It kind of got worse and then I had to have a major surgery last
year essentially. So I'm 36 now and it's been a
year and two weeks and I'm stillrehabbing at the moment.
(02:51):
So. Just just like because I know
you've, you've told me kind of roughly what they had to do with
that surgery. But just so people know the I
guess like not not severity, butjust like it was a very like
rough surgery. So yeah, talk about what they
had to do. Well, I was just plodding along
and then I woke up one day and Ijust was in a lot of pain, which
(03:11):
normally I can manage because I've had it for so long.
It's, it's quite normal. You know, my pain thresholds
probably quite high by now because I'm just used to it and
I just manage my training. But when I had a scan, because
it was, it was in so much pain. There was just no joint space at
all in my knee. So when they scanned me, my
femur was just completely at thewrong alignment.
So they had to fracture my femurin three places and realign my
(03:33):
leg and then put the plate in. But again, along the way lots of
things happened. So I woke up from surgery and
there was a accidental 4th fracture and then the plate was
screwed in really tight so it couldn't heal and I ended up
being on crutches for 14 weeks in the end.
So I was off work and everythingat the time so it was a lot.
Yeah, a lot of your your training is now like CrossFit.
(03:55):
That's how that's where it's gone now.
And but you first injured your knee.
You said what, like 10 years agoor so.
What were you doing then sport wise?
Was it, was it CrossFit back then as well?
Or were you doing a different sport or a real sport?
Yeah, we're talking. We're talking to you, Meg.
Definitely weren't squatting with that.
(04:16):
Well, it's quite funny because everyone's like, oh, what did
you do? CrossFit, You must have got into
doing that, which I actually didn't.
So it was a freak accident as I say.
But at the time I was just running, not doing any strength
work, just like doing 10 KS and things like that.
Didn't really have much of an appreciation of the gym as such.
And then my sister's a rugby player.
She's like come and play this rugby game, you know, touch
(04:37):
rugby. And someone just fell against my
knee and I'm hyper mobile because I was a gymnast when I
was younger and just ruptured myACL.
So you weren't like lifting or anything back then, You weren't
cross fitting back then, So whendid that stuff come into play?
I had two OPS, first of all, andthen for some reason my athlete
brain was like, I'm going to tryCrossFit.
So in that sense, Crossfit's been really good because this is
(05:01):
quite adaptive and also it gave me a lot of appreciation for
strength training, which I'm sure we'll go in later on.
But from that sense, I don't know CrossFit any different.
So, you know, people are like, do you compete and things like
that? Not really because, but I never
really had the option. So it's not something that I
feel like I'm missing out on. And when I see the comps, I'm
like I'm thinking I'm OK, yeah. I guess when you've come from
(05:21):
like an athletic background, isn't it?
You'll do whatever you can to keep going.
So when you'll get an injured just adapting, adapt, adapt,
adapt. That where I think a lot of
people is when they're, when they get injured, it's like, oh,
well, that's, that's the end of it.
And it's like there's so much more you can do, you know, to,
to to keep the game going. But it's very, very easy just to
like knock on the head. Isn't it like you did with your
(05:42):
shoulder? Just LED him bed and cried.
Yeah, I, I was, because I was, Iwas about to ask you about that.
Because the, I think the thing that we see the most with
clients when they do get injuredis like they're, it's like their
hot streak just comes to a halt.Like the momentum just stops
where they've maybe they're in afat loss phase, they're kicking
ass and then they tweak their back, their shoulder or
(06:03):
something. It's almost like for most people
they have that just feeling of like, I'm done.
Like that's kind of like now this thing has happened, I can't
do anything else. I'm not sure what you were doing
with when you had to have your shoulder surgery.
I can't remember what phase you were in of your training, but
you know, you were out for a while, you know, with your arm
(06:24):
in a sling, you had some good atrophy going on on that side.
And I think, but I think as well, this is good to touch on
because previously you competed in a aesthetic sport where when
you then look in the mirror and you see your arm half the size
of the other arm, that's got a mess of your head a little bit
thinking like, is it going to come back?
Like is, is this it now? Did you have any of those?
(06:48):
Did you have any of those days where you were just like, like,
what am I doing? I think yeah, whenever I've got
injured or had like I'm one who does panic at first, like my
first thought is it's over, evenif it's like a quite a small
injury like. Sprain your ankle?
Yeah. That's it, it's done.
But that's generally the way my brain works.
When it first happens. And I'm sure like you thought as
(07:09):
well, like when you were having the surgeries, it's like, oh,
what am I going to be able to doafter?
And then once like the initial emotion settles and you've
realised, OK, it's not game over.
It's I didn't, I dealt with it alot better than I thought I
would. Like, I think one of the reasons
I put off having the operation for so long is because I didn't
want to go down that road of like, I'm going to be out, I'm
(07:31):
going to have it strapped up because the, the, the recovery
time with my shoulder was quite,it's not that long.
It's considering you've just said you're like.
No, it's. Still, yeah, now it sounds
pretty short, but it was like I had to have my arm in a sling
for like 12 weeks, no movement. Then it was like 4 weeks of like
assisted movement and then it was like 6 months before I could
(07:53):
put any stress through it really.
So it was quite a long time. But it as long as you almost
just got to change the goal, like as soon as you shift the
goal. Because if, if my goal was to
get bigger at that time, well, yeah, I'd constantly be
stressing. I'd be pissed off because I'm
getting smaller, but my goal wasjust a bit right.
I'm just going to try and like Ithink I set some like aerobic
(08:13):
stuff on the bikes. It was just like stationary.
I set some like strength goals on that single side with my legs
and things. So I was always training for
something and then the next thing.
And also I was looking at like, because it was like 6 months,
but I'd broken that up was like OK, in six weeks I can start
moving my hand. OK, in another six weeks I can
(08:34):
take my sling off and I can walkaround without it.
So that I always had these like touch points that I was looking
forward to and it actually went way faster than and it was way
easier than I thought. I didn't, I didn't stress too
much about the, the, the muscle loss side of things.
I used to hang out with skinnierguys.
Yeah. Just every single picture.
Why is he still sideways Sideways.
(08:55):
Do. You know, like with clients that
I've had injuries with, like a lot of it is to do with like the
mindset. It's like, how do you think when
something doesn't go your way? And that's like a growth
opportunity there. It's like because like you can
have your original thoughts like, oh, this sucks, it's over,
but it's what you do about it after.
Do you control what you can or do nothing at all?
So it's like I'll often speak tomy clients.
It's like when something's not going your way, like now this is
(09:16):
a growth opportunity in terms oflike, how am I going to respond?
Am I going to do whatever I can or am I just going to whinge
your butter and doing? Nothing.
That's the difference because you hurt your shoulder a couple
years ago as well and. And I haven't seen anyone about.
It you haven't. That's my downfall.
You haven't you're. The best client you are yeah.
So that's another thing for clients.
Like do see someone about it. Yeah, yeah, but don't do what I
do. But equally, I think because
your mindset is always like shitneeds to get done.
(09:38):
And so the first thing you'll dois like, OK, well this hurts, so
I can't do it. Can I do this?
Can I do that? Cool, I'm just going to do that.
And then you just move on. And there's because there's, you
know, you've got family, you've got kids, you've got work.
It's like I can't wallow in selfpity.
I'm just going to adapt and maybe I just don't press anymore
or whatever. That's literally what I did.
I literally took my training program and I literally went
(09:59):
through all the movements. I was like, oh, that is that's
no way. Oh, that's good.
I'll do more of that. And then I just.
Yeah, yeah. I think just because of the
identity that we have though, and we like when you look on the
priority list, it's so high up, like fitness and training and
stuff for us. So, you know, I, I think I had
the operation on the Thursday and I was back in the gym on
Monday. Like it was only a few days off.
(10:19):
Like you, you still train now with the shoulder.
You just adapt it like you've, you've had five OPS and every
time you're still going back to things you do.
But I think it can be more challenging when it's not that
high up on your priority list. It's not really a big part of
who you are. Like you're just someone who say
now you're trying to get into fitness.
Say now you're in like your first three months and then your
(10:40):
back goes. Now it's more like this fitness.
Like it's my back was fine before I started doing this
fitness thing and now my back's gone and they just knocked on
the head. So I think it's it becomes a
little bit more challenging whenyou're dealing with people who
aren't as obviously experience in the fitness field, but also
it doesn't mean as much to them.I was gonna say it's about
(11:01):
having an appreciation of it, isn't it?
So that's what we're trying to get people to do, is actually
see the value of training. But that comes with the rehab as
well. And there's quite a lot of sort
of crossover with that. I think it depends on where they
are in their fitness journey as well 'cause when I worked as a
physical therapist, sometimes people are motivated to do
rehab. They just didn't really know
what to do and they were too scared to get make it worse.
Whereas us, we would be able to adjust and adapt our training.
(11:22):
Whereas you need that sort of guide to make sure I'll give you
confidence that you're not goingto make it worse or do anything
wrong. Because I don't think people
trust themselves the. Other.
The other thing is that that's ahuge one because normally if you
go to just like a General practitioner, they'll say rest
it, rest it for like 6 weeks, 8 weeks.
There's really no, they don't have thorough training on
specific injuries. So I would always see a physical
(11:44):
therapist, a qualified physio, chiropractor, like someone that
has experience with the injury that you're experiencing.
Because even when I like when I really injured my back last year
like that, that one was kind of like, I think I've really done
it now and it's like, I like, I can't even walk like kind of
thing. And like my goal was just better
walk pain free. And that didn't happen for like
1010 months like it was, it was really bad.
(12:06):
I remember when I spoke to stuff, he did it.
I was like, it doesn't sound good.
What was that one? You couldn't.
You drop something on the floor like you couldn't.
You couldn't bend, couldn't evendo it.
It's like the house was a stay because like if I dropped
something, I was like, I can't pick it up.
Yeah. And it was, it was a steak
before these. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For. Everyone listening Bend
collecting. Slip discs it's.
Like #5 now, yeah. But I, but I remember when it
happened, it's like I, I got home and, and then I had a bunch
(12:27):
of work calls and I knew my backwas kind of freezing up.
And then I rang, rang my girlfriend at the time was like,
I think I need to go to A&E, Like I can't move.
And she literally had to help meget into my car.
Oh no, I had to get into her car, which was a real struggle
because it was fucking tiny. And then it took me 15 minutes
to get out of the car and then just to go from the car park to
(12:47):
the doors, which is like 30 meters.
It took me about 20 minutes. And I was literally just like
shuffling. And they had to like wheelchair
me in for the MRI because I was like, I can't walk.
It's too far away. Had to lean on something.
Like they had to help me in and out of the MRI because I
couldn't sit up. And in my head I was just like,
if they come back and just be like, you've just completely
blown a desk, like you're done. I'm just going to be like, fuck,
(13:09):
because I love lifting heavy. And it's like that's part of
like my identity is like, I likebeing strong and I just like.
So that's, that's over. But that was it.
That's that thing that we're talking about is I, I bet the
initial. Thought was the panic of that's
done like that, that part of my life, that big part of my life
is gone because they kind of gotworse and worse.
And that was like the big because, you know, I've tweaked
(13:29):
my back in the past and it's like, yeah, it's sore for a
while and then you get back to it.
Whereas this was like, I can't Ican't sleep like my back's in so
much pain. And then but then the good thing
is I managed to speak to A to a guy, Nick, who I was working
with from my rehab. He was in osteo and because he's
a meathead as well, he's it it, it really reassured me in terms
(13:49):
of my confidence of like, it's going to be painful.
It's going to go again, but likewe're going to put you in a
position that when it does go, you can bounce back way faster.
It's not going to put you out for six months because my back
went like 3 weeks ago and it's already 95% now.
But it was that kind of like it's never going to be perfect
again. But if you always avoid doing
anything on your back, it's going to get even worse because
(14:11):
it's, you're not going to strengthen anything around it.
So it was great because then youkind of got me like back under
the bar doing lifting and stuff again and having a bit of
confidence. But I think that's the thing
that that affects people as wellas say you tweak your shoulder
or you, you know, you, you tear your PEC benching or something.
It's always the first time you go back to that movement and
(14:31):
it's that fear of like, oh God, is it going to happen again?
It's like the first time I did like a like a dead lift again.
I'm like, fucking hell, is it going to it's just going to pop
and and then it doesn't. And you're like, it takes a
while to build the confidence back up.
But I, I don't know if you had the same with your shoulder
where it was like, OK, this, this like because I remember
even when we'd had calls, I could see you like moving your
(14:53):
arm and it would be tight, but then you'd still go back and be
like, I need to keep working it in that range.
Otherwise it's never going to improve.
But it's, it's that difference between like discomfort and no,
don't do that. It's painful.
But like rehabbing, like, I mean, you can probably talk more
about this, but like generally speaking, like rehab is a little
bit painful. Like it's almost like a three
(15:15):
out of 10 pain where like something's weak or something
out of place. And it's it's uncomfortable
doing it. Like no one does rehab.
It's like this feels great, likeit's, it's quite uncomfortable.
Yeah. So we'd normally work between a
three or four out of 10 pane. And then you'd also want to look
at the volume in that training session, so not just doing
random movements and not knowinghow many reps and things like
(15:35):
that. And then also the 24 hour
pattern after that of how it settles because it really, you
know, you want to get some response and a stimulus out of
it at the time. Yeah, it just depends on how
fast it settles after that. Otherwise you're just going to
be stuck where you are. And I think that's the part that
people are afraid to push at. Yep.
But again, it depends on the advice they've been given.
If they've been told to arrest, then it's going to be much
harder sort of headspace to workfrom, whereas you want to be
(15:58):
working with someone who can sort of help you manage that
intensity and the volume and sort of monitor how it settles
really. Yeah, so I think as well takes
you had issues with your back then you and used to avoid all
work with it, but now in your training you specifically do
Yeah, you specifically. Rounded back train.
Yeah, yeah. Side bends You specifically
train your back through different movement patterns to
strengthen it. Yeah, well, I think I got.
(16:19):
I got a disk like I remember doing like deadlift when I was
like 18, just like no warm up, just going in like yanking way
too heavy weights. And I mean my back went on one
and I had sciatica my down my left leg for like 18 months or
so. So I'd I'd imagine there's some.
And even now, like if I bend over at the waist, I can feel
like a pull down at that lower back air.
(16:41):
So I, I would imagine I've neverhad it scanned, but I would
imagine there's something going on down there.
But what I found was, and, and that's what I, I just avoided
any lower back work. So a, a lot of my, my leg work
went to like seated work. A lot of my like any rows and
stuff was always like chest supported.
And you look at my, like my erectus was, they're small.
They're very even now they're they're underdeveloped and like
(17:04):
you look at my dad lifting up his, his pants and it's like,
but now and like, what if I usedto pull my back very easy, but
now I train my core a lot more. Like I train my back in those
positions where it does feel a bit risky.
And I remember doing like the like Jeffersons with literally
like 30 kilos. I'm feeling like, Oh my God,
this feels so unnatural to just bend over with a hunched back.
(17:27):
And now like I'll, I'll ramp it up to like set of 60 with like
moving the bar quite fast as well.
So I'm I'm down like with a hunch back and I can pull it up
like really confident in those humans side bends rotations and
my back is 1. I feel so much more confident
when I move but also like I haven't I haven't twinged my
back in a in a hot 2nd It's. One thing I wish I did when I
(17:48):
was younger because you always get taught everything with a
straight back, never round your back.
But when you start lifting heavy, you are going to get out
of those perfect positions. And if you've never been in
them, this when you tweak and it's like when if people,
because this has happened to me as well.
Like let's say someone doesn't have very good mobility.
(18:09):
And so let's just say they can only squat to parallel.
They can't go below parallel. If they do like a thorough warm
up, they do loads of mobility stuff.
Now when they squat, they can squat ass to grass.
If they then load that up because they're feeling really
good, they'll probably injure themselves in that bottom
portion because you've never been down there with load.
And so it's like you go in threeinches low or whatever in your
squat because you've got this extra range, but you've never
(18:31):
put any load in that position. And I think that's like, I mean
that I guess, like I mean you, you probably know the terms more
than me, but like flexibility and mobility where like some
people can be really flexible, but they're really weak in those
positions. Whereas like some guys, even
some guys can have great mobility, but like you put them
in there with load and then shithits the fan.
(18:51):
Yeah, so mobility would be more like strength through a range.
So you want to load that, not just go from zero to 100, which
everyone likes to do with anything, really.
Yeah. And it's confidence as well,
isn't it? Because I have clients a lot of
the time who, you know, they just starting out and they're
like, oh, I'm not supposed to doanything for my back.
And I'm just like, just give me a few weeks and we'll build A
and you know, we do start small.It is a lot of confidence
(19:14):
things, but we have can be quitehumbling and it is quite hard.
But yeah, a month in, they love it because they just never
thought they'd be able to do these things.
And they just feel really happy that they they're progressing
essentially. Yeah, I've seen like I've seen
like people where they'll be like, oh, I can pull a 200
kilogram deadlift, then they'll pull their back like picking up
a shopping bag, told me. Yeah, he's obviously turn off a
light switch and sneeze and I'm like, oh.
(19:35):
Well, he sat there. And it's like your body's just
not. Used to those positions. 100%
when you when you, when you like, because most, I guess most
people play some kind of sport when they're younger, when
they're a kid. But it's like sprinting is a
good one. Like as soon as you leave
school, you never Sprint again. And it's like if you were to
Sprint now, you'd tear everything up And it's like it's
(19:56):
use it or lose it. And then if you go from, you
know, you haven't played basketball for years.
And then you go play 5, you know, a game of five aside or
whatever, pick up. And then you sprain your ankles,
you tweak your hips. And it's because you haven't
done those things for that long.And I think people jump in too
soon, too fast. Just because just because it
doesn't hurt then doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
(20:19):
Because I had the same thing with like tendonitis and things
where people would be doing stuff.
And it's like, just because it doesn't hurt, it doesn't mean
it's helping it, you know, and it's probably slowing down the
recovery process. But let's let's shift gears a
little bit. So because we, we always like to
kind of give like a practical example, if guys are going
through this right now, but let's just say a client checks
(20:40):
in with you and says, you know, I've, I've tweaked my back this
week, really annoying, really down on myself kind of what,
what should I do? Like I, I feel like I need to
take a break from the program, which is, it's not uncommon
because my, my first thoughts isalways shifting the focus more
to habits, nutrition, what they can do in the gym.
(21:01):
But because most of our clients were in a fat loss phase, I
would kind of explain to them like, hey, like the, the weight
training is great to preserve muscle mass, but the nutrition
is what's moving the needle in terms of the fat loss.
And with a back injury, knee injury, like if you can still
feed yourself, like we can stillget results during this time.
But I'd love to get your thoughts on what that initial
(21:23):
conversation looks like with a client and then where you try
and shift the shift the focus with them.
I'll go to you first, Taylor. I think me and me and Nick were
chatting by this the other day. So if this is what you were
going to say, I apologize. I'm about to stick it.
First. It's I think one of the hardest
things, especially when people enjoy training.
Like we just spoke about how we adapted all our training
(21:44):
whenever we got injured. You adapted.
But then for some people, like they, they enjoy, you know, like
standard bodybuilding style training and then they've got
injured and then you're like, oh, we're going to go to the gym
twice a week and do rehab. And it's like, they're like, I'm
not driving to the gym to just go into rehab for an hour.
So it's like you can straight away, even though that may be
(22:06):
the best thing for them to do, they're not going to do it.
So it's like, well, let's forgetthat plan then.
So I think one of the key thingsis like, look, we're still going
to adapt your training. So I'll say like, we're still
going to get in the gym and we're going to train some arms.
You know, we'll do a bit of leg extensions, we'll do some hammy
kills or whatever. So we'll we'll still do the
things, or at least some of the things that you like to do.
(22:26):
And then more like the rehab stuff.
That stuff's then going to go alongside that.
So you might start off the session with a bit of rehab and
then you'll get a bit of an arm pump at the end.
Yeah. Or you might go back and forth
where you'll do like a bit of a bit of like bodybuilding style
work and then you'll do a littlebit of rehab or even superset
the 2. So you're doing like, let's say
you've got a bit of a knee issue, so you're doing some like
ISO holes or like squat squat holes.
(22:49):
And then you superset that with a seated dumbbell shoulder
press. So it's like I tried to remove
all the things that are irritating the area or going to
put that area at risk, then build out what I can from like a
fun standpoint. So they still enjoy that
training. And then add in these other bits
then that are going to start moving the needle from a
recovery standpoint and then youcan start building that stuff
(23:11):
back out. So at least when they're going
to the gym, they're still excited.
They're still, oh, I actually still like my training.
It's not like, oh, the training has completely fallen apart.
I've lost everything that I like.
And now I'm just in here doing these, these balloon holes where
I'm just like sort of rotating back and forth because they're
just not going to do it. That's the first thing.
So they're still excited about training.
(23:31):
There's just these other things.Well, there's the, the risky
stuff removed and then there's these other things put back in
to, to, to get that at least moving, you know.
Yeah. Imagine something similar for
you, right? Yeah, So what what I what I like
to say as well is that, you know, like when you said you
were at your shoulder and it's like your original thought is
it's over. That's them texting you when
(23:52):
their emotions are really high. It's like, how do I pause the
program? It's all over.
And then it's like, oh, can we jump on a call?
And that's when I would go through what you say, Ben, it's
like, OK, like tell me why you think it's all over.
And it's like, oh, well, did youknow you're in fat loss and that
we can still make progress. And then again, you adapt the
program so that they can still progress towards their goals.
But in that moment, especially with like high performers,
because it's almost like they have the illusion that they've
(24:14):
lost all control. So they're just going to vent
you. And then when you get on a call
and explain to them, it's like actually, and they would have
calmed down by then, actually, Ican still progress.
This is how we're going to progress.
And you explain to them how you're going to do it.
It's essentially what you just did.
I think it's a few things as well, like you said, letting
them have that moment as well because it is frustrating and
like you can level with people. It's not just like, you know, be
(24:36):
positive. It is, you know, a hard
situation to be in. But then looking ahead, like
Taylor said, rather than becauseI think their instinct would be
like, I just can't train this has caused my injury or anything
else. And with rehab as well, when
you're loading it into a program, rehab is quite hard.
It can be quite humbling and it's quite uncomfortable to have
to do it. It's not that is too easy, it's
actually difficult and it's workin areas of weakness.
(24:57):
So that's why you need to sort of pair it with things that they
actually enjoy because no one wants to go and do stuff that
they're not very good at for an hour, I think.
I think you mentioned something really good there about like
letting them like be angry actually like it is a crap
situation and being like, I understand that it's a really
tough time for you. This is what we can.
Do so it it really annoys me sometimes when people are like
just got to think positive and it's like no shit.
(25:19):
Like it's just shit. When you like, walk.
Yeah. Whereas like my my goal be it's
not to think positive. It's like to try and just at
least get to neutral where it's like you can take it for what it
is and you don't have to, you know, your, your goal is to get
out of that negative headspace as fast as possible.
But we're not trying to be like,oh, you know, look at the bright
side. It's like there's no bright side
right now. Like it's neutral.
(25:40):
Like here's the situation, but Ithink you mentioned it with your
shoulder, like having these little milestones that you kind
of work towards and having thosekind of micro goals and and
almost making a pivot on on the goal itself, where it's, you
know, if you injure your back orsomething, it's like, right, our
first goal is to do this thing pain free.
(26:01):
Once we can do that, we're goingto get like set another goal of
I want you to have confidence doing a body weight squat.
Like, and we kind of just, it's just those baby steps.
Because if you, I mean, even formyself, like if I thought about
it from the day I hurt my back to like, when am I going to be
able to like squat heavy again, It's like that's so far away.
So it's like you need to just think about, well, how can like
(26:21):
you need to be really aware of the tiny little things that are
improving. So it's like, oh, I managed to
walk 30 meters without stopping instead of, you know, the other
day where I couldn't walk. It's getting better if I just
keep doing what I'm doing and focus on the stuff.
It's, it's improving. And I and then I think it's
trying to have patience because a lot of guys get a bit
(26:44):
overzealous where they'll be like, yeah, it feels all right,
I'll I'll get back to it. And they re injure it.
And, and I think with things like shoulders, knees, back, you
only get one of them. Well, you can have knee
replacements, but like they're, they're never the same.
And so I would kind of be like if you, if you tweak your back,
I'm kind of like, take your timegoing back to it.
(27:04):
Deadlifts are always going to bethere.
Maybe you don't even need to do them.
But I think if people rush back from injury and you see it a lot
with competitors and athletes where they've got a competition
coming up and they're like, well, I need to get ready for
it. And then they compete at like
90% and they injure themselves in the competition and then
they're out for like 3 seasons because they have to have
surgery and stuff because they tried to jump back too fast.
(27:27):
And it's, it sucks, but sometimes it's like you need to
just take, take the time to to recover.
I think that's like lack of perspective as well.
And that's why you need a coach to sort of work with you on
that. Because even though I've been
doing this for 10 years, so I'm just so emotionally invested in
it. I'm like, you know, it's, it is
difficult to sort of deal with. But then I think what you're
saying as well is like the processes and as well as
(27:48):
training that is half the battle, but also the day-to-day
process is what you can actuallycontrol.
So at the time when I was injured, my main thing was
getting off crutches and I was like, I'm going to make sure I
do every single thing this week recovery wise, you know, eat it
enough protein, things like thatjust to be able to, you know,
control the controllables and domy absolute best.
So that happens as soon as possible.
Yeah. And then being able to laugh at
(28:09):
yourself as well. So I remember like my first
session I was like, I want to beable to walk down the stairs and
walk the dog and things like that.
So it's just like, and I was like, this is hilarious that I'm
in this position, but you just got to you.
Just got to go with it. I was like.
I remember being in triple figures.
So like now can I? Can I walk?
Down the door, I genuinely like I, I, I remember I was sat
laughing to myself once because it probably took me 20 minutes
(28:31):
to wipe my ass because I couldn't twist my back and I'm
like, well, I can't use my left hand.
It's like, I've never done that.And it's kind of like, and I'm
like, what am I doing? And it was just like, but then
again, small wins. It's like, oh, only in the
bathroom for 15 minutes a day, like programming.
I could, I could sit down on thetoilet without wincing and, but
just like little things like that.
But if anyone's listening that'sbeen through those like really
(28:53):
serious injuries, like they'll completely understand what we're
talking about. Where it's, it's the, it's the
day-to-day things that you completely take for granted and
you're kind of like, oh, I just,I just want to be able to sleep
through the night without getting nerve pain or something.
And it's, it's so, and, and we, we talk about this a lot where
like being able to work on your fitness and health is a
(29:15):
privilege. And so it's like, if you, if
you're able bodied and you don'thave any of these injuries, like
your goal is to continue to strengthen everything.
So I mean, I, I don't want to kind of jinx anyone, but
everyone gets injured. Even if you do everything right,
you will get an injury and your goal is to be in as best shape
(29:36):
and health as possible. So when you do get injured, you
can recover and bounce back as fast as possible.
And it's like it's the same thing because we, you know,
talking about guys that have illnesses like cancer and
things, it's like, well, our goal is to put everyone in the
perfect healthy position. And I think it's like what one
and two now people get cancer. It's like if you can put
(29:56):
yourself in the healthiest position possible, if you happen
to be one of those unlucky 50%, you're in the best position to
fight against this thing. Whereas if you neglect this
shit, you're really kind of putting yourself behind to try
and adapt. And it's the same thing with
injuries and and things like that.
If you, if you die at some point, you're eating enough
protein, you get any calcium in like all, all of these different
(30:18):
things. When you do get injured, you're
probably going to recover way faster than someone that smokes,
drinks, doesn't exercise. They'll just, you know, they
hurt their back and then ten years late, you see them and
they're on, they've got a walking cane and they look like
Quasimodo because they never tried to kind of get get back.
They've just accepted it. Well, the problem is no one
thinks it's going to happen to them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and it's like, if you're
(30:41):
like training is going to, it's obviously you can get injured
when you train, but if you, if you avoid training to not get
injured, you're just, you're just going to become really non
resilient and really fragile. And then the risk of injury is
way higher because now if like you just trip over a cube, it's
like, oh, and now your arm's broken.
I say yeah, because your arm's weak as hell.
(31:01):
So it's like by trying to avoid getting injured through avoiding
training, you're actually putting yourself at greater risk
of getting injured just from normal day-to-day things because
you're just not durable at all. That's what happened to me
actually, because when I said I was just running all the time,
in a way this injury changed my life because it gave me an
appreciation of strength training.
(31:22):
It gave me Crossfair, which, youknow, friends, everything like
that, you know, jobs. I was working as a psychologist
when I got injured and then ended up changing my whole
career. And you know, you have to see
that something good is going to come out of it as well.
Like there's a lot of freedom ina change in perspective.
And they're just like, what, you're 10 years in now with that
injury. And like what she just said
there, then it's like this injury was like a blessing, you
(31:43):
know? But I bet when you first did it,
there wasn't that. Oh, I still have.
Those days now I was just like, oh, why is this happened and all
this sort of stuff you. Know what I think's really are
for people who get injured as well, like so like they'll be
like, Oh well, I was I can't remember what's that fight this
name that's just had a lung transplant.
Ben Asker. Do you know, if you want someone
that's like a good mindset, Likelisten to his videos because
like he was saying something like obviously before he was
(32:04):
like a UFC fight fight. And now he was curling like a
fight, shrugging to curl like a 5 LB dumbbell.
And I think what a lot of peoplethink is like, they'll always
compare to what they could do previously.
Like, oh, well, I was like fighting bench in there,
shoulder pressing this. And now my goal is to like get
out of a wheelchair. Yeah.
Like to be able to be like, well, that's what I did before.
I need to find out where I am now and what is the next step.
(32:24):
Like that takes some resilience,something out there that does.
But. If you look as well like he's a
few days out of like the hospital and he's already like
trying to like bend his. Arm.
That's the. Difference.
That's the difference. That's what's going to get him
to win the game. It's like if he just lay there
and just like, Oh well, there weare, then the double lung chance
he wouldn't get anywhere. Yeah.
So it's like you have to, you have to change that mindset.
Isn't it like his ability be like, well, that's what I could
(32:46):
do before, but ultimately this is my circumstances now, what is
the next thing that I can do to move me back to where that is
and he's actually killing a 5 LBnumber.
And that's, that's really key inthat belief.
Like we, we actually spoke aboutthis on like the call
yesterday's when you first get injured, like you have this
belief that it's done and you ain't going to go anywhere then.
And it's like, oh, well, training's gone.
But like, where's that belief come from?
(33:07):
It's mainly like, well, one, youknow, you're injured and two,
you're emotional. So you're just creating gone to
the worst, worst case scenario. When actually, like what I
found, what really helped me with my shoulder was, again,
looking at other people who havehad the same surgery that I'm
having. So I was looking at different
athletes and it was like, Oh yeah, this baseball player had
(33:27):
it and he returned to play into a high standard.
And then this other person and I'm like, oh, well, if these
guys are they've had the same surgery and they've gone back to
play in elite level sport where the upper body is is a big
factor. Well, surely I can end up going
back to the gym and just get in and just lift in some weight.
(33:47):
Yeah. So like just, it's a really good
way to try and shift your belief.
And that's where I'll be like, you know, some, some clients
will be like, Oh yeah, my, my back's, you know, I got a sip
disc in my back and I'm like, oh, but like, have you seen,
like, I think it's what is it Like 65% of blokes over 50 have
got, have got discs in their back that are out.
A lot of them have pain. Some of them don't have pain.
(34:08):
Some of them there is pain, but it gets better.
It's like you can, there's loadsof guys who have got your issues
that have dealt with it just fine.
And just knowing that, it sort of reframes the belief a bit
more like, ah, actually this isn't a dead end.
This is just like, OK, yeah, this happens.
It is going to be a challenge, but loads of people do come out
the other end of this more than fine.
Yeah. Well, look, you've, you've
(34:29):
moaned, you've moaned all the time, but you've moaned about
your, your, your discs. You've got your knee issues.
You've got your shoulder. I've got my shoulder.
Yeah, we're all still. Trained well, This this is the
thing because it's like it's I mean, it's almost like a running
joke in our coaching department of people just taking the piss
out of my back. But equally, it's like probably
front squat 4 plates. And so it's like, well, your
(34:52):
fucking back's bad. You can't front squat 4 plates,
you're weak. And so it's that's.
The problem I think. Yeah, but it's, it's like I, I
think as well, people will like almost attach their identity to
like, I've got a bad back, I've got a bad shoulder.
And it's like, well, do you, because your back can do a lot
of good stuff that other people can't do that have good backs.
(35:13):
So it, it's like if you always associate yourself with that,
it's always going to be on your mind.
And it's like, no, it's a bad back.
Yeah. And so I think it's like if
someone said to me like, do you have a bad back?
I'll be like, no, it's fine. Like I've tweaked it a few
times, but it's a fully functioning back.
But it's, it's, I think people will just hold onto stuff and be
like, we've got bad knees, got abad back.
(35:34):
And it's like, well, if you always believe that, then it's,
it's almost like the, the space between your ears is what throws
you off and you actually get injured in the 1st place because
you're, you overthink stuff whenyou lift and you're too
conscious of it. You change your technique and
then that's when something goes but it.
Becomes a reason to procrastinate then yeah, well I
can't do this because of my knee.
I can't do this. And that's where you said like,
(35:55):
well, look at this client. Yeah, exactly the same
circumstances because we use a lot with people who would be
like, oh, I'm really busy, I travel a lot, got a family, so
I'm never going to lose weight. It's like, are you open to
seeing these clients in the samesituation?
Down 100 lbs. It's just the it's the
difference of like, like you were saying, you know, surgery
two days later back in the gym. Like I literally even when I had
(36:16):
the MRI, they were like, yeah, you need to like rest for like
the next month. Two days later.
I like waddle to the gym and I was holding on to the sides of
the treadmill to like hold my weight and I was just like
shuffling on it. And then I would like sit on a
bench, ask someone to hand me some dumbbells and they're like,
I can do some curls and just keep my back really, really
still. And it's like I can just go
light and go slower and get my arms to burn.
So it's like I can still do something.
(36:37):
And it was like I still went to the gym everyday and we're just
like, I'm just going to walk a little bit, move around, like
keep the routine. But then it's the difference of
like, you know, people were likestub their toe and be like, I
need to take a break from the gym.
It's like your fucking arms work.
Like you still lay on the bench like you can, you can do all
these other things, but it's you're you've already you were
(36:57):
looking for a reason to throw inthe towel.
And this is you believe that this is just you.
You get out of jail free card oflike, I can't do it.
Tweak, tweak my leg, tweak sprain, sprain my calf.
And it's whereas the the the difference in the Champions of
the first thing they do is go tothe gym and be like, what can I
do? Cool, I'm going to build my
routine around these movements. Or I mean, even like for myself
(37:19):
now, like I do way more cardio now than than I used to and I
really enjoy it. But I probably wouldn't have got
to this point without the back injury because I'm like, fucker,
I just want to keep lifting heavy.
Whereas now it's, it's like, no,I really enjoy the cardio
because that's all I could do because it wasn't loading my
back and it was something that Icould at least mentally like
struggle with because that's whyI like training is like the
(37:39):
mental struggle of doing something that you suck at and
getting better at it. But it's, it is a good
opportunity for people to like, try something else.
And you might find the new passion for a, for a new sport,
a new career. Like it can, it can massively
shift things. I think that's the most
important thing is that when youget injured, training doesn't
stop. You just adapt.
Yeah, yeah, that adaptation is key.
It's it's just that it's strangebecause all the issues that
(38:03):
we're talking about are physical, but then a lot of the
barriers on the back end are mental.
It's just being like just tryingto re reframe.
OK, what can I do? OK, how can I still keep it fun?
OK, look at what other people have done.
It's not the end. And then eventually again you,
as long as you keep working at it again, we're not saying all
injuries are going to get back to perfect, but it's a you can
(38:25):
normally get pretty close to where you were previously and.
You just need a new normal, isn't it?
Isn't it? But I think it is the identity
shift as well, because it's the identity shift of losing
yourself in training. But then you need to do the
opposite when you are injured because as you were saying,
people hang on to that injury for years and years and they
they see it as a weakness alwayslike the self talk around, you
(38:46):
know, making them more debilitated or giving themself
more barriers. Whereas you need to actually
lose that identity of being injured.
And that's something that I've really tried to work on because
I've had this for so long. I am conscious of not talking
about it too much that I really have been on this podcast.
But yeah, you won't stop rambling these days.
But I try to just separate myself from it as well, because
otherwise you are, you're never going to lose that identity and
(39:08):
then that's going to work against you longer.
Yeah, it's I I laugh because it's almost like if I, if I go
to the gym, so I'll be like, oh,how's your bat?
Yeah, it's fine. Stop asking me.
Yeah, but but it's, I remember who was it?
Dorian Yates, the bodybuilder. And he was, he was saying when
he was in the gym and he said every time I go to the gym,
there'd be a kid working there and he'd be like, how's the
(39:29):
diet? How's the diet?
And he'd be prepping for like the Olympia.
And then he like one day he justsnapped at the kid and he's
like, like, what do you fucking mean?
It's like it's fucking hard. Like it's like it's shit.
He's like, stop asking me. He's like, I'm hungry just but
but yeah, I, I think if like if you, if you're always thinking
about it and stuff, then you'll,you'll almost like psych
(39:50):
yourself out. So I think if we, Nick, if we
had to kind of summarize kind ofeverything we spoke about if, if
someone is experiencing an an injury, what's your kind of like
top three things that you recommend they do right out the
gate? So the first thing is, as we
said, have your moment first, but then you need to actually
(40:11):
establish what are you capable of doing.
Because even if you have the same diagnosis as someone else
or again, someone's told you to rest, there's always something
you can do. And also two people are never
going to respond the same to thesame injury.
So it's about really sort of honing in on what what you can
actually do, focusing on those. So a lot like Taylor said about
building into the program, obviously working with a coach
or a specialist to do that. And then I was just looking at
(40:35):
the day-to-day. I was like, what can I do today?
First of all to help myself, butalso to keep myself going.
And I just really honing in on the processes because I was
like, as long as I get to the end of the day and I know I've
done everything I can to help myself, that's what's going to
keep me going. And then, you know, eventually
having a look at that sort of longer term plan because at the
start, I don't think you'll actually be ready.
(40:55):
So it's like those three steps, but I think the longer term
plan, you need a bit of time andspace to, to get there first.
Because when you're in it, it's it's kind of hard to see out of
it. So it's just like like we do
with, you know, fat loss phases and build it into a maintenance
phase or muscle building. It's just like sometimes when
you're in the thick of it, it's hard to see out of it.
But you need to have some sort of loose plan because if someone
(41:16):
would tell me, you know, you're still going to do in rehab a
year later. I just didn't want to hear that
at the time. I was like, I don't have the
capacity for that. So I just needed to know every
single day. So like we do a lot of clients
and we give them daily tasks. It's like, have I done
everything today to actually help myself?
And I couldn't really think thatfar ahead at the start, but
eventually that's how I would sort of drip feed it in the same
as we do in our programs. It's like progressing every week
(41:38):
and building more in not just with the training, but
day-to-day as well. And even with regards to
actually planning ahead, do. You know, when you're in the
thick of it as well and like youcan't see out of it.
Like a good question to ask is like, what's the default path if
I don't do anything at all, You know?
So it's like, what's the alternative?
What's the alternative? It's like, oh, well, I can lie
in bed and my shoulder is going to get worse and I'll probably
injure it again. I'll feel.
(41:59):
So yes, without you go up the thick of and be like, oh, so
maybe I should do these small tasks And Nikki is set, you
know, he said, like don't is it going to be worse off?
And it's a really good way of being like, I'm going to do my
mobility today, you know, even though I don't want to, it's a
good way to shift yourself and get out of the thick of it.
It's something I found useful. No, I was happy.
Once we've done it, then it's actually like, oh, I actually
did that and it gives you a bit of confidence as well. 100%
(42:19):
Well, that's that's what we we spoke about in a previous
podcast where we said, you know,what's the alternative?
Quit and it's like you a quitter.
No, do you rehab? But it's sometimes you just need
that like 5 minutes of just talking to yourself being like,
I really don't want to do this, but I also really don't want to
be a quitter, so I'm taking. The emotion out of it, it's like
just do the task. Like, no, I don't want to do it,
but we always have to do stuff we don't really want to do.
(42:41):
Yeah. It's not always going to be fun.
It's just like, just get it done, yeah.
I found people don't think that.Like, what's the alternative?
It almost sets me back in my seat when you say it like,
what's the alternative? It's like quit.
It's like, oh God, yeah, I better gonna do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it.
Perfect. Thank you as always for tuning
in, guys. Be sure to like and subscribe on
Spotify, iTunes and YouTube and we'll catch you next time.
If you love this show, please like, share and leave us a five
(43:03):
star review so that we can help more people.
I'm John Matson, reminding you to always go get what's yours.
Injury What champions do to overcome mental struggles that
come with serious injuries. Nikki, you've had a knee injury.
It will resonate with a lot of our clients.
Knee surgeries, back issues, shoulder problems.
I think it'd be really good justto kind of hear a bit of your
story. I've had this injury for 10
years now. I've just had my fifth surgery
on it. When you first get injured, you
have this belief that it's done.Where's that belief come from?
(00:22):
1 you know you're injured and two, you're emotional so you're
just gone to the worst case scenario with clients when they
do get injured, their heart streak just comes to a halt
them. Momentum just stops for most
people. They have that just feeling of
like I'm done. I'm Ryan Stevens.
Doctor Taylor Waters, I'm Ben Oliver.
Welcome to the Superhuman show, Yeah?
What's up everyone? Welcome to the Superhuman Show
(00:43):
with your host. Ben Oliver joined with the Doc
Taylor Waters, Ryan Stevens and special guest coach Nikki
Donovan. So if we if we start or or sweat
more than usual, we don't normally talk to women and the.
Boys seem quiet to me. But this this is this is
probably a good one for you to be on this episode because we're
(01:05):
talking all things injury. So what I mean, I would say what
champions do to overcome the mental struggles that come with
serious injuries and kind of howthey adapt to it.
So I know Nikki, you've had a knee injury for, for quite some
time now. So it's probably good if we kind
(01:26):
of dive into that first and justhow you've, how you've
approached it, how you've approached your training.
The, I guess like the mental toll that it's that it's taken
as well because I think it will probably be very, it will
resonate with a lot of our clients because we do have a lot
of clients that have had knee surgeries, back issues, shoulder
(01:48):
problems. We get a lot of clients that are
ex athletes, maybe they've had an injury in their 20s or 30s
and now they're in their 50s andthey're still kind of managing
it because they didn't manage itproperly then.
So I think it'd be really good just to kind of hear hear a bit
of your story and then we can kind of break it down bit by bit
and then offer some advice for clients that are going through
something similar. Well, it's a very long story, so
(02:10):
I'll keep it short. Yeah, we got, we got 25 minutes.
So yeah, ideally keep it going for the old thing after doing it
again. Well, I've had this injury for
10 years now, so I've had just had my fifth surgery on it and
it was just like a freak accident.
So ACL web show, which happens alot in sports, especially in the
20s, especially as females. I won't go too much down the
(02:30):
physio side, but it's just a high risk really at that age
especially and as a female. But just ended up having surgery
after surgery, they couldn't quite correct it.
It kind of got worse and then I had to have a major surgery last
year essentially. So I'm 36 now and it's been a
year and two weeks and I'm stillrehabbing at the moment.
(02:51):
So. Just just like because I know
you've, you've told me kind of roughly what they had to do with
that surgery. But just so people know the I
guess like not not severity, butjust like it was a very like
rough surgery. So yeah, talk about what they
had to do. Well, I was just plodding along
and then I woke up one day and Ijust was in a lot of pain, which
(03:11):
normally I can manage because I've had it for so long.
It's, it's quite normal. You know, my pain thresholds
probably quite high by now because I'm just used to it and
I just manage my training. But when I had a scan, because
it was, it was in so much pain. There was just no joint space at
all in my knee. So when they scanned me, my
femur was just completely at thewrong alignment.
So they had to fracture my femurin three places and realign my
(03:33):
leg and then put the plate in. But again, along the way lots of
things happened. So I woke up from surgery and
there was a accidental 4th fracture and then the plate was
screwed in really tight so it couldn't heal and I ended up
being on crutches for 14 weeks in the end.
So I was off work and everythingat the time so it was a lot.
Yeah, a lot of your your training is now like CrossFit.
(03:55):
That's how that's where it's gone now.
And but you first injured your knee.
You said what, like 10 years agoor so.
What were you doing then sport wise?
Was it, was it CrossFit back then as well?
Or were you doing a different sport or a real sport?
Yeah, we're talking. We're talking to you, Meg.
Definitely weren't squatting with that.
(04:16):
Well, it's quite funny because everyone's like, oh, what did
you do? CrossFit, You must have got into
doing that, which I actually didn't.
So it was a freak accident as I say.
But at the time I was just running, not doing any strength
work, just like doing 10 KS and things like that.
Didn't really have much of an appreciation of the gym as such.
And then my sister's a rugby player.
She's like come and play this rugby game, you know, touch
(04:37):
rugby. And someone just fell against my
knee and I'm hyper mobile because I was a gymnast when I
was younger and just ruptured myACL.
So you weren't like lifting or anything back then, You weren't
cross fitting back then, So whendid that stuff come into play?
I had two OPS, first of all, andthen for some reason my athlete
brain was like, I'm going to tryCrossFit.
So in that sense, Crossfit's been really good because this is
(05:01):
quite adaptive and also it gave me a lot of appreciation for
strength training, which I'm sure we'll go in later on.
But from that sense, I don't know CrossFit any different.
So, you know, people are like, do you compete and things like
that? Not really because, but I never
really had the option. So it's not something that I
feel like I'm missing out on. And when I see the comps, I'm
like I'm thinking I'm OK, yeah. I guess when you've come from
(05:21):
like an athletic background, isn't it?
You'll do whatever you can to keep going.
So when you'll get an injured just adapting, adapt, adapt,
adapt. That where I think a lot of
people is when they're, when they get injured, it's like, oh,
well, that's, that's the end of it.
And it's like there's so much more you can do, you know, to,
to to keep the game going. But it's very, very easy just to
like knock on the head. Isn't it like you did with your
(05:42):
shoulder? Just LED him bed and cried.
Yeah, I, I was, because I was, Iwas about to ask you about that.
Because the, I think the thing that we see the most with
clients when they do get injuredis like they're, it's like their
hot streak just comes to a halt.Like the momentum just stops
where they've maybe they're in afat loss phase, they're kicking
ass and then they tweak their back, their shoulder or
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something. It's almost like for most people
they have that just feeling of like, I'm done.
Like that's kind of like now this thing has happened, I can't
do anything else. I'm not sure what you were doing
with when you had to have your shoulder surgery.
I can't remember what phase you were in of your training, but
you know, you were out for a while, you know, with your arm
(06:24):
in a sling, you had some good atrophy going on on that side.
And I think, but I think as well, this is good to touch on
because previously you competed in a aesthetic sport where when
you then look in the mirror and you see your arm half the size
of the other arm, that's got a mess of your head a little bit
thinking like, is it going to come back?
Like is, is this it now? Did you have any of those?
(06:48):
Did you have any of those days where you were just like, like,
what am I doing? I think yeah, whenever I've got
injured or had like I'm one who does panic at first, like my
first thought is it's over, evenif it's like a quite a small
injury like. Sprain your ankle?
Yeah. That's it, it's done.
But that's generally the way my brain works.
When it first happens. And I'm sure like you thought as
(07:09):
well, like when you were having the surgeries, it's like, oh,
what am I going to be able to doafter?
And then once like the initial emotion settles and you've
realised, OK, it's not game over.
It's I didn't, I dealt with it alot better than I thought I
would. Like, I think one of the reasons
I put off having the operation for so long is because I didn't
want to go down that road of like, I'm going to be out, I'm
(07:31):
going to have it strapped up because the, the, the recovery
time with my shoulder was quite,it's not that long.
It's considering you've just said you're like.
No, it's. Still, yeah, now it sounds
pretty short, but it was like I had to have my arm in a sling
for like 12 weeks, no movement. Then it was like 4 weeks of like
assisted movement and then it was like 6 months before I could
(07:53):
put any stress through it really.
So it was quite a long time. But it as long as you almost
just got to change the goal, like as soon as you shift the
goal. Because if, if my goal was to
get bigger at that time, well, yeah, I'd constantly be
stressing. I'd be pissed off because I'm
getting smaller, but my goal wasjust a bit right.
I'm just going to try and like Ithink I set some like aerobic
(08:13):
stuff on the bikes. It was just like stationary.
I set some like strength goals on that single side with my legs
and things. So I was always training for
something and then the next thing.
And also I was looking at like, because it was like 6 months,
but I'd broken that up was like OK, in six weeks I can start
moving my hand. OK, in another six weeks I can
(08:34):
take my sling off and I can walkaround without it.
So that I always had these like touch points that I was looking
forward to and it actually went way faster than and it was way
easier than I thought. I didn't, I didn't stress too
much about the, the, the muscle loss side of things.
I used to hang out with skinnierguys.
Yeah. Just every single picture.
Why is he still sideways Sideways.
(08:55):
Do. You know, like with clients that
I've had injuries with, like a lot of it is to do with like the
mindset. It's like, how do you think when
something doesn't go your way? And that's like a growth
opportunity there. It's like because like you can
have your original thoughts like, oh, this sucks, it's over,
but it's what you do about it after.
Do you control what you can or do nothing at all?
So it's like I'll often speak tomy clients.
It's like when something's not going your way, like now this is
(09:16):
a growth opportunity in terms oflike, how am I going to respond?
Am I going to do whatever I can or am I just going to whinge
your butter and doing? Nothing.
That's the difference because you hurt your shoulder a couple
years ago as well and. And I haven't seen anyone about.
It you haven't. That's my downfall.
You haven't you're. The best client you are yeah.
So that's another thing for clients.
Like do see someone about it. Yeah, yeah, but don't do what I
do. But equally, I think because
your mindset is always like shitneeds to get done.
(09:38):
And so the first thing you'll dois like, OK, well this hurts, so
I can't do it. Can I do this?
Can I do that? Cool, I'm just going to do that.
And then you just move on. And there's because there's, you
know, you've got family, you've got kids, you've got work.
It's like I can't wallow in selfpity.
I'm just going to adapt and maybe I just don't press anymore
or whatever. That's literally what I did.
I literally took my training program and I literally went
(09:59):
through all the movements. I was like, oh, that is that's
no way. Oh, that's good.
I'll do more of that. And then I just.
Yeah, yeah. I think just because of the
identity that we have though, and we like when you look on the
priority list, it's so high up, like fitness and training and
stuff for us. So, you know, I, I think I had
the operation on the Thursday and I was back in the gym on
Monday. Like it was only a few days off.
(10:19):
Like you, you still train now with the shoulder.
You just adapt it like you've, you've had five OPS and every
time you're still going back to things you do.
But I think it can be more challenging when it's not that
high up on your priority list. It's not really a big part of
who you are. Like you're just someone who say
now you're trying to get into fitness.
Say now you're in like your first three months and then your
(10:40):
back goes. Now it's more like this fitness.
Like it's my back was fine before I started doing this
fitness thing and now my back's gone and they just knocked on
the head. So I think it's it becomes a
little bit more challenging whenyou're dealing with people who
aren't as obviously experience in the fitness field, but also
it doesn't mean as much to them.I was gonna say it's about
(11:01):
having an appreciation of it, isn't it?
So that's what we're trying to get people to do, is actually
see the value of training. But that comes with the rehab as
well. And there's quite a lot of sort
of crossover with that. I think it depends on where they
are in their fitness journey as well 'cause when I worked as a
physical therapist, sometimes people are motivated to do
rehab. They just didn't really know
what to do and they were too scared to get make it worse.
Whereas us, we would be able to adjust and adapt our training.
(11:22):
Whereas you need that sort of guide to make sure I'll give you
confidence that you're not goingto make it worse or do anything
wrong. Because I don't think people
trust themselves the. Other.
The other thing is that that's ahuge one because normally if you
go to just like a General practitioner, they'll say rest
it, rest it for like 6 weeks, 8 weeks.
There's really no, they don't have thorough training on
specific injuries. So I would always see a physical
(11:44):
therapist, a qualified physio, chiropractor, like someone that
has experience with the injury that you're experiencing.
Because even when I like when I really injured my back last year
like that, that one was kind of like, I think I've really done
it now and it's like, I like, I can't even walk like kind of
thing. And like my goal was just better
walk pain free. And that didn't happen for like
1010 months like it was, it was really bad.
(12:06):
I remember when I spoke to stuff, he did it.
I was like, it doesn't sound good.
What was that one? You couldn't.
You drop something on the floor like you couldn't.
You couldn't bend, couldn't evendo it.
It's like the house was a stay because like if I dropped
something, I was like, I can't pick it up.
Yeah. And it was, it was a steak
before these. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For. Everyone listening Bend
collecting. Slip discs it's.
Like #5 now, yeah. But I, but I remember when it
happened, it's like I, I got home and, and then I had a bunch
(12:27):
of work calls and I knew my backwas kind of freezing up.
And then I rang, rang my girlfriend at the time was like,
I think I need to go to A&E, Like I can't move.
And she literally had to help meget into my car.
Oh no, I had to get into her car, which was a real struggle
because it was fucking tiny. And then it took me 15 minutes
to get out of the car and then just to go from the car park to
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the doors, which is like 30 meters.
It took me about 20 minutes. And I was literally just like
shuffling. And they had to like wheelchair
me in for the MRI because I was like, I can't walk.
It's too far away. Had to lean on something.
Like they had to help me in and out of the MRI because I
couldn't sit up. And in my head I was just like,
if they come back and just be like, you've just completely
blown a desk, like you're done. I'm just going to be like, fuck,
(13:09):
because I love lifting heavy. And it's like that's part of
like my identity is like, I likebeing strong and I just like.
So that's, that's over. But that was it.
That's that thing that we're talking about is I, I bet the
initial. Thought was the panic of that's
done like that, that part of my life, that big part of my life
is gone because they kind of gotworse and worse.
And that was like the big because, you know, I've tweaked
(13:29):
my back in the past and it's like, yeah, it's sore for a
while and then you get back to it.
Whereas this was like, I can't Ican't sleep like my back's in so
much pain. And then but then the good thing
is I managed to speak to A to a guy, Nick, who I was working
with from my rehab. He was in osteo and because he's
a meathead as well, he's it it, it really reassured me in terms
(13:49):
of my confidence of like, it's going to be painful.
It's going to go again, but likewe're going to put you in a
position that when it does go, you can bounce back way faster.
It's not going to put you out for six months because my back
went like 3 weeks ago and it's already 95% now.
But it was that kind of like it's never going to be perfect
again. But if you always avoid doing
anything on your back, it's going to get even worse because
(14:11):
it's, you're not going to strengthen anything around it.
So it was great because then youkind of got me like back under
the bar doing lifting and stuff again and having a bit of
confidence. But I think that's the thing
that that affects people as wellas say you tweak your shoulder
or you, you know, you, you tear your PEC benching or something.
It's always the first time you go back to that movement and
(14:31):
it's that fear of like, oh God, is it going to happen again?
It's like the first time I did like a like a dead lift again.
I'm like, fucking hell, is it going to it's just going to pop
and and then it doesn't. And you're like, it takes a
while to build the confidence back up.
But I, I don't know if you had the same with your shoulder
where it was like, OK, this, this like because I remember
even when we'd had calls, I could see you like moving your
(14:53):
arm and it would be tight, but then you'd still go back and be
like, I need to keep working it in that range.
Otherwise it's never going to improve.
But it's, it's that difference between like discomfort and no,
don't do that. It's painful.
But like rehabbing, like, I mean, you can probably talk more
about this, but like generally speaking, like rehab is a little
bit painful. Like it's almost like a three
(15:15):
out of 10 pain where like something's weak or something
out of place. And it's it's uncomfortable
doing it. Like no one does rehab.
It's like this feels great, likeit's, it's quite uncomfortable.
Yeah. So we'd normally work between a
three or four out of 10 pane. And then you'd also want to look
at the volume in that training session, so not just doing
random movements and not knowinghow many reps and things like
(15:35):
that. And then also the 24 hour
pattern after that of how it settles because it really, you
know, you want to get some response and a stimulus out of
it at the time. Yeah, it just depends on how
fast it settles after that. Otherwise you're just going to
be stuck where you are. And I think that's the part that
people are afraid to push at. Yep.
But again, it depends on the advice they've been given.
If they've been told to arrest, then it's going to be much
harder sort of headspace to workfrom, whereas you want to be
(15:58):
working with someone who can sort of help you manage that
intensity and the volume and sort of monitor how it settles
really. Yeah, so I think as well takes
you had issues with your back then you and used to avoid all
work with it, but now in your training you specifically do
Yeah, you specifically. Rounded back train.
Yeah, yeah. Side bends You specifically
train your back through different movement patterns to
strengthen it. Yeah, well, I think I got.
(16:19):
I got a disk like I remember doing like deadlift when I was
like 18, just like no warm up, just going in like yanking way
too heavy weights. And I mean my back went on one
and I had sciatica my down my left leg for like 18 months or
so. So I'd I'd imagine there's some.
And even now, like if I bend over at the waist, I can feel
like a pull down at that lower back air.
(16:41):
So I, I would imagine I've neverhad it scanned, but I would
imagine there's something going on down there.
But what I found was, and, and that's what I, I just avoided
any lower back work. So a, a lot of my, my leg work
went to like seated work. A lot of my like any rows and
stuff was always like chest supported.
And you look at my, like my erectus was, they're small.
They're very even now they're they're underdeveloped and like
(17:04):
you look at my dad lifting up his, his pants and it's like,
but now and like, what if I usedto pull my back very easy, but
now I train my core a lot more. Like I train my back in those
positions where it does feel a bit risky.
And I remember doing like the like Jeffersons with literally
like 30 kilos. I'm feeling like, Oh my God,
this feels so unnatural to just bend over with a hunched back.
(17:27):
And now like I'll, I'll ramp it up to like set of 60 with like
moving the bar quite fast as well.
So I'm I'm down like with a hunch back and I can pull it up
like really confident in those humans side bends rotations and
my back is 1. I feel so much more confident
when I move but also like I haven't I haven't twinged my
back in a in a hot 2nd It's. One thing I wish I did when I
(17:48):
was younger because you always get taught everything with a
straight back, never round your back.
But when you start lifting heavy, you are going to get out
of those perfect positions. And if you've never been in
them, this when you tweak and it's like when if people,
because this has happened to me as well.
Like let's say someone doesn't have very good mobility.
(18:09):
And so let's just say they can only squat to parallel.
They can't go below parallel. If they do like a thorough warm
up, they do loads of mobility stuff.
Now when they squat, they can squat ass to grass.
If they then load that up because they're feeling really
good, they'll probably injure themselves in that bottom
portion because you've never been down there with load.
And so it's like you go in threeinches low or whatever in your
squat because you've got this extra range, but you've never
(18:31):
put any load in that position. And I think that's like, I mean
that I guess, like I mean you, you probably know the terms more
than me, but like flexibility and mobility where like some
people can be really flexible, but they're really weak in those
positions. Whereas like some guys, even
some guys can have great mobility, but like you put them
in there with load and then shithits the fan.
(18:51):
Yeah, so mobility would be more like strength through a range.
So you want to load that, not just go from zero to 100, which
everyone likes to do with anything, really.
Yeah. And it's confidence as well,
isn't it? Because I have clients a lot of
the time who, you know, they just starting out and they're
like, oh, I'm not supposed to doanything for my back.
And I'm just like, just give me a few weeks and we'll build A
and you know, we do start small.It is a lot of confidence
(19:14):
things, but we have can be quitehumbling and it is quite hard.
But yeah, a month in, they love it because they just never
thought they'd be able to do these things.
And they just feel really happy that they they're progressing
essentially. Yeah, I've seen like I've seen
like people where they'll be like, oh, I can pull a 200
kilogram deadlift, then they'll pull their back like picking up
a shopping bag, told me. Yeah, he's obviously turn off a
light switch and sneeze and I'm like, oh.
(19:35):
Well, he sat there. And it's like your body's just
not. Used to those positions. 100%
when you when you, when you like, because most, I guess most
people play some kind of sport when they're younger, when
they're a kid. But it's like sprinting is a
good one. Like as soon as you leave
school, you never Sprint again. And it's like if you were to
Sprint now, you'd tear everything up And it's like it's
(19:56):
use it or lose it. And then if you go from, you
know, you haven't played basketball for years.
And then you go play 5, you know, a game of five aside or
whatever, pick up. And then you sprain your ankles,
you tweak your hips. And it's because you haven't
done those things for that long.And I think people jump in too
soon, too fast. Just because just because it
doesn't hurt then doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
(20:19):
Because I had the same thing with like tendonitis and things
where people would be doing stuff.
And it's like, just because it doesn't hurt, it doesn't mean
it's helping it, you know, and it's probably slowing down the
recovery process. But let's let's shift gears a
little bit. So because we, we always like to
kind of give like a practical example, if guys are going
through this right now, but let's just say a client checks
(20:40):
in with you and says, you know, I've, I've tweaked my back this
week, really annoying, really down on myself kind of what,
what should I do? Like I, I feel like I need to
take a break from the program, which is, it's not uncommon
because my, my first thoughts isalways shifting the focus more
to habits, nutrition, what they can do in the gym.
(21:01):
But because most of our clients were in a fat loss phase, I
would kind of explain to them like, hey, like the, the weight
training is great to preserve muscle mass, but the nutrition
is what's moving the needle in terms of the fat loss.
And with a back injury, knee injury, like if you can still
feed yourself, like we can stillget results during this time.
But I'd love to get your thoughts on what that initial
(21:23):
conversation looks like with a client and then where you try
and shift the shift the focus with them.
I'll go to you first, Taylor. I think me and me and Nick were
chatting by this the other day. So if this is what you were
going to say, I apologize. I'm about to stick it.
First. It's I think one of the hardest
things, especially when people enjoy training.
Like we just spoke about how we adapted all our training
(21:44):
whenever we got injured. You adapted.
But then for some people, like they, they enjoy, you know, like
standard bodybuilding style training and then they've got
injured and then you're like, oh, we're going to go to the gym
twice a week and do rehab. And it's like, they're like, I'm
not driving to the gym to just go into rehab for an hour.
So it's like you can straight away, even though that may be
(22:06):
the best thing for them to do, they're not going to do it.
So it's like, well, let's forgetthat plan then.
So I think one of the key thingsis like, look, we're still going
to adapt your training. So I'll say like, we're still
going to get in the gym and we're going to train some arms.
You know, we'll do a bit of leg extensions, we'll do some hammy
kills or whatever. So we'll we'll still do the
things, or at least some of the things that you like to do.
(22:26):
And then more like the rehab stuff.
That stuff's then going to go alongside that.
So you might start off the session with a bit of rehab and
then you'll get a bit of an arm pump at the end.
Yeah. Or you might go back and forth
where you'll do like a bit of a bit of like bodybuilding style
work and then you'll do a littlebit of rehab or even superset
the 2. So you're doing like, let's say
you've got a bit of a knee issue, so you're doing some like
ISO holes or like squat squat holes.
(22:49):
And then you superset that with a seated dumbbell shoulder
press. So it's like I tried to remove
all the things that are irritating the area or going to
put that area at risk, then build out what I can from like a
fun standpoint. So they still enjoy that
training. And then add in these other bits
then that are going to start moving the needle from a
recovery standpoint and then youcan start building that stuff
(23:11):
back out. So at least when they're going
to the gym, they're still excited.
They're still, oh, I actually still like my training.
It's not like, oh, the training has completely fallen apart.
I've lost everything that I like.
And now I'm just in here doing these, these balloon holes where
I'm just like sort of rotating back and forth because they're
just not going to do it. That's the first thing.
So they're still excited about training.
(23:31):
There's just these other things.Well, there's the, the risky
stuff removed and then there's these other things put back in
to, to, to get that at least moving, you know.
Yeah. Imagine something similar for
you, right? Yeah, So what what I what I like
to say as well is that, you know, like when you said you
were at your shoulder and it's like your original thought is
it's over. That's them texting you when
(23:52):
their emotions are really high. It's like, how do I pause the
program? It's all over.
And then it's like, oh, can we jump on a call?
And that's when I would go through what you say, Ben, it's
like, OK, like tell me why you think it's all over.
And it's like, oh, well, did youknow you're in fat loss and that
we can still make progress. And then again, you adapt the
program so that they can still progress towards their goals.
But in that moment, especially with like high performers,
because it's almost like they have the illusion that they've
(24:14):
lost all control. So they're just going to vent
you. And then when you get on a call
and explain to them, it's like actually, and they would have
calmed down by then, actually, Ican still progress.
This is how we're going to progress.
And you explain to them how you're going to do it.
It's essentially what you just did.
I think it's a few things as well, like you said, letting
them have that moment as well because it is frustrating and
like you can level with people. It's not just like, you know, be
(24:36):
positive. It is, you know, a hard
situation to be in. But then looking ahead, like
Taylor said, rather than becauseI think their instinct would be
like, I just can't train this has caused my injury or anything
else. And with rehab as well, when
you're loading it into a program, rehab is quite hard.
It can be quite humbling and it's quite uncomfortable to have
to do it. It's not that is too easy, it's
actually difficult and it's workin areas of weakness.
(24:57):
So that's why you need to sort of pair it with things that they
actually enjoy because no one wants to go and do stuff that
they're not very good at for an hour, I think.
I think you mentioned something really good there about like
letting them like be angry actually like it is a crap
situation and being like, I understand that it's a really
tough time for you. This is what we can.
Do so it it really annoys me sometimes when people are like
just got to think positive and it's like no shit.
(25:19):
Like it's just shit. When you like, walk.
Yeah. Whereas like my my goal be it's
not to think positive. It's like to try and just at
least get to neutral where it's like you can take it for what it
is and you don't have to, you know, your, your goal is to get
out of that negative headspace as fast as possible.
But we're not trying to be like,oh, you know, look at the bright
side. It's like there's no bright side
right now. Like it's neutral.
(25:40):
Like here's the situation, but Ithink you mentioned it with your
shoulder, like having these little milestones that you kind
of work towards and having thosekind of micro goals and and
almost making a pivot on on the goal itself, where it's, you
know, if you injure your back orsomething, it's like, right, our
first goal is to do this thing pain free.
(26:01):
Once we can do that, we're goingto get like set another goal of
I want you to have confidence doing a body weight squat.
Like, and we kind of just, it's just those baby steps.
Because if you, I mean, even formyself, like if I thought about
it from the day I hurt my back to like, when am I going to be
able to like squat heavy again, It's like that's so far away.
So it's like you need to just think about, well, how can like
(26:21):
you need to be really aware of the tiny little things that are
improving. So it's like, oh, I managed to
walk 30 meters without stopping instead of, you know, the other
day where I couldn't walk. It's getting better if I just
keep doing what I'm doing and focus on the stuff.
It's, it's improving. And I and then I think it's
trying to have patience because a lot of guys get a bit
(26:44):
overzealous where they'll be like, yeah, it feels all right,
I'll I'll get back to it. And they re injure it.
And, and I think with things like shoulders, knees, back, you
only get one of them. Well, you can have knee
replacements, but like they're, they're never the same.
And so I would kind of be like if you, if you tweak your back,
I'm kind of like, take your timegoing back to it.
(27:04):
Deadlifts are always going to bethere.
Maybe you don't even need to do them.
But I think if people rush back from injury and you see it a lot
with competitors and athletes where they've got a competition
coming up and they're like, well, I need to get ready for
it. And then they compete at like
90% and they injure themselves in the competition and then
they're out for like 3 seasons because they have to have
surgery and stuff because they tried to jump back too fast.
(27:27):
And it's, it sucks, but sometimes it's like you need to
just take, take the time to to recover.
I think that's like lack of perspective as well.
And that's why you need a coach to sort of work with you on
that. Because even though I've been
doing this for 10 years, so I'm just so emotionally invested in
it. I'm like, you know, it's, it is
difficult to sort of deal with. But then I think what you're
saying as well is like the processes and as well as
(27:48):
training that is half the battle, but also the day-to-day
process is what you can actuallycontrol.
So at the time when I was injured, my main thing was
getting off crutches and I was like, I'm going to make sure I
do every single thing this week recovery wise, you know, eat it
enough protein, things like thatjust to be able to, you know,
control the controllables and domy absolute best.
So that happens as soon as possible.
Yeah. And then being able to laugh at
(28:09):
yourself as well. So I remember like my first
session I was like, I want to beable to walk down the stairs and
walk the dog and things like that.
So it's just like, and I was like, this is hilarious that I'm
in this position, but you just got to you.
Just got to go with it. I was like.
I remember being in triple figures.
So like now can I? Can I walk?
Down the door, I genuinely like I, I, I remember I was sat
laughing to myself once because it probably took me 20 minutes
(28:31):
to wipe my ass because I couldn't twist my back and I'm
like, well, I can't use my left hand.
It's like, I've never done that.And it's kind of like, and I'm
like, what am I doing? And it was just like, but then
again, small wins. It's like, oh, only in the
bathroom for 15 minutes a day, like programming.
I could, I could sit down on thetoilet without wincing and, but
just like little things like that.
But if anyone's listening that'sbeen through those like really
(28:53):
serious injuries, like they'll completely understand what we're
talking about. Where it's, it's the, it's the
day-to-day things that you completely take for granted and
you're kind of like, oh, I just,I just want to be able to sleep
through the night without getting nerve pain or something.
And it's, it's so, and, and we, we talk about this a lot where
like being able to work on your fitness and health is a
(29:15):
privilege. And so it's like, if you, if
you're able bodied and you don'thave any of these injuries, like
your goal is to continue to strengthen everything.
So I mean, I, I don't want to kind of jinx anyone, but
everyone gets injured. Even if you do everything right,
you will get an injury and your goal is to be in as best shape
(29:36):
and health as possible. So when you do get injured, you
can recover and bounce back as fast as possible.
And it's like it's the same thing because we, you know,
talking about guys that have illnesses like cancer and
things, it's like, well, our goal is to put everyone in the
perfect healthy position. And I think it's like what one
and two now people get cancer. It's like if you can put
(29:56):
yourself in the healthiest position possible, if you happen
to be one of those unlucky 50%, you're in the best position to
fight against this thing. Whereas if you neglect this
shit, you're really kind of putting yourself behind to try
and adapt. And it's the same thing with
injuries and and things like that.
If you, if you die at some point, you're eating enough
protein, you get any calcium in like all, all of these different
(30:18):
things. When you do get injured, you're
probably going to recover way faster than someone that smokes,
drinks, doesn't exercise. They'll just, you know, they
hurt their back and then ten years late, you see them and
they're on, they've got a walking cane and they look like
Quasimodo because they never tried to kind of get get back.
They've just accepted it. Well, the problem is no one
thinks it's going to happen to them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and it's like, if you're
(30:41):
like training is going to, it's obviously you can get injured
when you train, but if you, if you avoid training to not get
injured, you're just, you're just going to become really non
resilient and really fragile. And then the risk of injury is
way higher because now if like you just trip over a cube, it's
like, oh, and now your arm's broken.
I say yeah, because your arm's weak as hell.
(31:01):
So it's like by trying to avoid getting injured through avoiding
training, you're actually putting yourself at greater risk
of getting injured just from normal day-to-day things because
you're just not durable at all. That's what happened to me
actually, because when I said I was just running all the time,
in a way this injury changed my life because it gave me an
appreciation of strength training.
(31:22):
It gave me Crossfair, which, youknow, friends, everything like
that, you know, jobs. I was working as a psychologist
when I got injured and then ended up changing my whole
career. And you know, you have to see
that something good is going to come out of it as well.
Like there's a lot of freedom ina change in perspective.
And they're just like, what, you're 10 years in now with that
injury. And like what she just said
there, then it's like this injury was like a blessing, you
(31:43):
know? But I bet when you first did it,
there wasn't that. Oh, I still have.
Those days now I was just like, oh, why is this happened and all
this sort of stuff you. Know what I think's really are
for people who get injured as well, like so like they'll be
like, Oh well, I was I can't remember what's that fight this
name that's just had a lung transplant.
Ben Asker. Do you know, if you want someone
that's like a good mindset, Likelisten to his videos because
like he was saying something like obviously before he was
(32:04):
like a UFC fight fight. And now he was curling like a
fight, shrugging to curl like a 5 LB dumbbell.
And I think what a lot of peoplethink is like, they'll always
compare to what they could do previously.
Like, oh, well, I was like fighting bench in there,
shoulder pressing this. And now my goal is to like get
out of a wheelchair. Yeah.
Like to be able to be like, well, that's what I did before.
I need to find out where I am now and what is the next step.
(32:24):
Like that takes some resilience,something out there that does.
But. If you look as well like he's a
few days out of like the hospital and he's already like
trying to like bend his. Arm.
That's the. Difference.
That's the difference. That's what's going to get him
to win the game. It's like if he just lay there
and just like, Oh well, there weare, then the double lung chance
he wouldn't get anywhere. Yeah.
So it's like you have to, you have to change that mindset.
Isn't it like his ability be like, well, that's what I could
(32:46):
do before, but ultimately this is my circumstances now, what is
the next thing that I can do to move me back to where that is
and he's actually killing a 5 LBnumber.
And that's, that's really key inthat belief.
Like we, we actually spoke aboutthis on like the call
yesterday's when you first get injured, like you have this
belief that it's done and you ain't going to go anywhere then.
And it's like, oh, well, training's gone.
But like, where's that belief come from?
(33:07):
It's mainly like, well, one, youknow, you're injured and two,
you're emotional. So you're just creating gone to
the worst, worst case scenario. When actually, like what I
found, what really helped me with my shoulder was, again,
looking at other people who havehad the same surgery that I'm
having. So I was looking at different
athletes and it was like, Oh yeah, this baseball player had
(33:27):
it and he returned to play into a high standard.
And then this other person and I'm like, oh, well, if these
guys are they've had the same surgery and they've gone back to
play in elite level sport where the upper body is is a big
factor. Well, surely I can end up going
back to the gym and just get in and just lift in some weight.
(33:47):
Yeah. So like just, it's a really good
way to try and shift your belief.
And that's where I'll be like, you know, some, some clients
will be like, Oh yeah, my, my back's, you know, I got a sip
disc in my back and I'm like, oh, but like, have you seen,
like, I think it's what is it Like 65% of blokes over 50 have
got, have got discs in their back that are out.
A lot of them have pain. Some of them don't have pain.
(34:08):
Some of them there is pain, but it gets better.
It's like you can, there's loadsof guys who have got your issues
that have dealt with it just fine.
And just knowing that, it sort of reframes the belief a bit
more like, ah, actually this isn't a dead end.
This is just like, OK, yeah, this happens.
It is going to be a challenge, but loads of people do come out
the other end of this more than fine.
Yeah. Well, look, you've, you've
(34:29):
moaned, you've moaned all the time, but you've moaned about
your, your, your discs. You've got your knee issues.
You've got your shoulder. I've got my shoulder.
Yeah, we're all still. Trained well, This this is the
thing because it's like it's I mean, it's almost like a running
joke in our coaching department of people just taking the piss
out of my back. But equally, it's like probably
front squat 4 plates. And so it's like, well, your
(34:52):
fucking back's bad. You can't front squat 4 plates,
you're weak. And so it's that's.
The problem I think. Yeah, but it's, it's like I, I
think as well, people will like almost attach their identity to
like, I've got a bad back, I've got a bad shoulder.
And it's like, well, do you, because your back can do a lot
of good stuff that other people can't do that have good backs.
(35:13):
So it, it's like if you always associate yourself with that,
it's always going to be on your mind.
And it's like, no, it's a bad back.
Yeah. And so I think it's like if
someone said to me like, do you have a bad back?
I'll be like, no, it's fine. Like I've tweaked it a few
times, but it's a fully functioning back.
But it's, it's, I think people will just hold onto stuff and be
like, we've got bad knees, got abad back.
(35:34):
And it's like, well, if you always believe that, then it's,
it's almost like the, the space between your ears is what throws
you off and you actually get injured in the 1st place because
you're, you overthink stuff whenyou lift and you're too
conscious of it. You change your technique and
then that's when something goes but it.
Becomes a reason to procrastinate then yeah, well I
can't do this because of my knee.
I can't do this. And that's where you said like,
(35:55):
well, look at this client. Yeah, exactly the same
circumstances because we use a lot with people who would be
like, oh, I'm really busy, I travel a lot, got a family, so
I'm never going to lose weight. It's like, are you open to
seeing these clients in the samesituation?
Down 100 lbs. It's just the it's the
difference of like, like you were saying, you know, surgery
two days later back in the gym. Like I literally even when I had
(36:16):
the MRI, they were like, yeah, you need to like rest for like
the next month. Two days later.
I like waddle to the gym and I was holding on to the sides of
the treadmill to like hold my weight and I was just like
shuffling on it. And then I would like sit on a
bench, ask someone to hand me some dumbbells and they're like,
I can do some curls and just keep my back really, really
still. And it's like I can just go
light and go slower and get my arms to burn.
So it's like I can still do something.
(36:37):
And it was like I still went to the gym everyday and we're just
like, I'm just going to walk a little bit, move around, like
keep the routine. But then it's the difference of
like, you know, people were likestub their toe and be like, I
need to take a break from the gym.
It's like your fucking arms work.
Like you still lay on the bench like you can, you can do all
these other things, but it's you're you've already you were
(36:57):
looking for a reason to throw inthe towel.
And this is you believe that this is just you.
You get out of jail free card oflike, I can't do it.
Tweak, tweak my leg, tweak sprain, sprain my calf.
And it's whereas the the the difference in the Champions of
the first thing they do is go tothe gym and be like, what can I
do? Cool, I'm going to build my
routine around these movements. Or I mean, even like for myself
(37:19):
now, like I do way more cardio now than than I used to and I
really enjoy it. But I probably wouldn't have got
to this point without the back injury because I'm like, fucker,
I just want to keep lifting heavy.
Whereas now it's, it's like, no,I really enjoy the cardio
because that's all I could do because it wasn't loading my
back and it was something that Icould at least mentally like
struggle with because that's whyI like training is like the
(37:39):
mental struggle of doing something that you suck at and
getting better at it. But it's, it is a good
opportunity for people to like, try something else.
And you might find the new passion for a, for a new sport,
a new career. Like it can, it can massively
shift things. I think that's the most
important thing is that when youget injured, training doesn't
stop. You just adapt.
Yeah, yeah, that adaptation is key.
It's it's just that it's strangebecause all the issues that
(38:03):
we're talking about are physical, but then a lot of the
barriers on the back end are mental.
It's just being like just tryingto re reframe.
OK, what can I do? OK, how can I still keep it fun?
OK, look at what other people have done.
It's not the end. And then eventually again you,
as long as you keep working at it again, we're not saying all
injuries are going to get back to perfect, but it's a you can
(38:25):
normally get pretty close to where you were previously and.
You just need a new normal, isn't it?
Isn't it? But I think it is the identity
shift as well, because it's the identity shift of losing
yourself in training. But then you need to do the
opposite when you are injured because as you were saying,
people hang on to that injury for years and years and they
they see it as a weakness alwayslike the self talk around, you
(38:46):
know, making them more debilitated or giving themself
more barriers. Whereas you need to actually
lose that identity of being injured.
And that's something that I've really tried to work on because
I've had this for so long. I am conscious of not talking
about it too much that I really have been on this podcast.
But yeah, you won't stop rambling these days.
But I try to just separate myself from it as well, because
otherwise you are, you're never going to lose that identity and
(39:08):
then that's going to work against you longer.
Yeah, it's I I laugh because it's almost like if I, if I go
to the gym, so I'll be like, oh,how's your bat?
Yeah, it's fine. Stop asking me.
Yeah, but but it's, I remember who was it?
Dorian Yates, the bodybuilder. And he was, he was saying when
he was in the gym and he said every time I go to the gym,
there'd be a kid working there and he'd be like, how's the
(39:29):
diet? How's the diet?
And he'd be prepping for like the Olympia.
And then he like one day he justsnapped at the kid and he's
like, like, what do you fucking mean?
It's like it's fucking hard. Like it's like it's shit.
He's like, stop asking me. He's like, I'm hungry just but
but yeah, I, I think if like if you, if you're always thinking
about it and stuff, then you'll,you'll almost like psych
(39:50):
yourself out. So I think if we, Nick, if we
had to kind of summarize kind ofeverything we spoke about if, if
someone is experiencing an an injury, what's your kind of like
top three things that you recommend they do right out the
gate? So the first thing is, as we
said, have your moment first, but then you need to actually
(40:11):
establish what are you capable of doing.
Because even if you have the same diagnosis as someone else
or again, someone's told you to rest, there's always something
you can do. And also two people are never
going to respond the same to thesame injury.
So it's about really sort of honing in on what what you can
actually do, focusing on those. So a lot like Taylor said about
building into the program, obviously working with a coach
or a specialist to do that. And then I was just looking at
(40:35):
the day-to-day. I was like, what can I do today?
First of all to help myself, butalso to keep myself going.
And I just really honing in on the processes because I was
like, as long as I get to the end of the day and I know I've
done everything I can to help myself, that's what's going to
keep me going. And then, you know, eventually
having a look at that sort of longer term plan because at the
start, I don't think you'll actually be ready.
(40:55):
So it's like those three steps, but I think the longer term
plan, you need a bit of time andspace to, to get there first.
Because when you're in it, it's it's kind of hard to see out of
it. So it's just like like we do
with, you know, fat loss phases and build it into a maintenance
phase or muscle building. It's just like sometimes when
you're in the thick of it, it's hard to see out of it.
But you need to have some sort of loose plan because if someone
(41:16):
would tell me, you know, you're still going to do in rehab a
year later. I just didn't want to hear that
at the time. I was like, I don't have the
capacity for that. So I just needed to know every
single day. So like we do a lot of clients
and we give them daily tasks. It's like, have I done
everything today to actually help myself?
And I couldn't really think thatfar ahead at the start, but
eventually that's how I would sort of drip feed it in the same
as we do in our programs. It's like progressing every week
(41:38):
and building more in not just with the training, but
day-to-day as well. And even with regards to
actually planning ahead, do. You know, when you're in the
thick of it as well and like youcan't see out of it.
Like a good question to ask is like, what's the default path if
I don't do anything at all, You know?
So it's like, what's the alternative?
What's the alternative? It's like, oh, well, I can lie
in bed and my shoulder is going to get worse and I'll probably
injure it again. I'll feel.
(41:59):
So yes, without you go up the thick of and be like, oh, so
maybe I should do these small tasks And Nikki is set, you
know, he said, like don't is it going to be worse off?
And it's a really good way of being like, I'm going to do my
mobility today, you know, even though I don't want to, it's a
good way to shift yourself and get out of the thick of it.
It's something I found useful. No, I was happy.
Once we've done it, then it's actually like, oh, I actually
did that and it gives you a bit of confidence as well. 100%
(42:19):
Well, that's that's what we we spoke about in a previous
podcast where we said, you know,what's the alternative?
Quit and it's like you a quitter.
No, do you rehab? But it's sometimes you just need
that like 5 minutes of just talking to yourself being like,
I really don't want to do this, but I also really don't want to
be a quitter, so I'm taking. The emotion out of it, it's like
just do the task. Like, no, I don't want to do it,
but we always have to do stuff we don't really want to do.
(42:41):
Yeah. It's not always going to be fun.
It's just like, just get it done, yeah.
I found people don't think that.Like, what's the alternative?
It almost sets me back in my seat when you say it like,
what's the alternative? It's like quit.
It's like, oh God, yeah, I better gonna do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it.
Perfect. Thank you as always for tuning
in, guys. Be sure to like and subscribe on
Spotify, iTunes and YouTube and we'll catch you next time.
If you love this show, please like, share and leave us a five
(43:03):
star review so that we can help more people.
I'm John Matson, reminding you to always go get what's yours.
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