May 29, 2023 • 31 mins
How could a layperson see all the problems with this interrogation when the police couldn’t?
Laura Nirider and Steve Drizin tell us about Chris Tapp, just 20 when he endured a mind-bending, 25-hour interrogation that transformed him from an innocent man into a confessed murderer. Fortunately for Chris, he found an indomitable champion... in the victim’s mother, Carol Dodge. Carol convinced police to use a revolutionary new method of DNA identification to exonerate Chris and find her own daughter’s killer.
Since this episode originally aired, the real murderer, Brian Dripps, was tried and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Chris served this man's time, and the state of Idaho recently settled Chris's case for $11.7 million dollars in restitution.
To learn more and get involved, visit: https://www.centeronwrongfulconvictions.org/
Wrongful Conviction: False Confessions is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey there, it's Laura and I writer. I am here
with an update on a case we shared with you
back in season one of False Confessions. It's the story
of a mother, Carol Dodge, and her relentless pursuit of
justice for her daughter Angie. Now, when we first aired
this story, the real perpetrator had been identified Brian Drips,
But since we aired this story, Brian Drips has been
(00:26):
tried and convicted, sentenced to twenty years to life for
the murder of Angie Dodge. But while Brian Dripps was
living as a freeman for twenty years, it was Chris
Tapp who suffered in prison for a crime he didn't commit.
No amount of money can ever make up for what
Chris lost. But I'm glad to tell you that the
State of Idaho settled Chris TAP's wrongful conviction case for
(00:47):
over eleven million dollars. To Chris and Carol were replaying
this story in your honor. Welcome to Wrongful Convictions Confessions.
I'm Laura and I Writer.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And I'm Steve Drissen.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Today we're going to tell you about an Idaho man
named Chris Tap. Chris was just twenty years old when
he endured a mind bending twenty five hour interrogation that
transformed him from an innocent into a confessed murderer. Fortunately
for Chris, he found an indomitable champion in the victim's mother.
She convinced police to use a revolutionary new method of
(01:26):
DNA identification to exonerate Chris Tap and find her own
daughter's killer.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There are certain special people you meet in your life,
people that I like to say are more evolved than
the rest of us, people that really inspire you. And
Carol Dodge is one of those people. It's one of
the few times in my career as a lawyer where
someone from the victim's family has asked me to investigate
(02:01):
an injustice and for a crime victim who was so
invested in Chris's guilt that she wanted him to get
the death penalty, to evolve to a place where she
was thinking he might be innocent. That just blew me away.
How was it that a lay person could look at
these interrogation tapes and see all of the problems, all
(02:24):
of the coercion, all of the leading questions, all of
the fact feeding. When law enforcement officers on the Idaho
Falls Police Department couldn't see it themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And it shows that wrongful convictions affect more than just
the defendants. It's also the victim's families, the survivors of
these horrible attacks, who are being fed aligne about an
innocent person being guilty.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It wasn't easy. She had help from a lot of
other people, but it was her persistence and her desire
for knowledge that ultimately changed the course of this say.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Kristap's story starts in Idaho Falls, a town of about
one hundred thousand people in southeastern Idaho, about two hours
north of Yellowstone National Park. Idaho Falls is a beautiful place.
There's mountains on the horizon and the Snake River cut
straight through town. Gorgeous though it may be, the town
was wrecked by terrible ugliness nearly twenty four years ago.
(03:27):
In June nineteen ninety six, Idaho Falls resident Angie Dodge
was eighteen years old. She graduated from high school the
year before, a head of schedule with honors, and life
was just beginning for her. She was working two jobs,
taking a few classes at Idaho State, becoming independent. In fact,
Angie had just recently moved into her first apartment, the
(03:48):
upper floor of a little frame house on Eye Street
where she lived by herself. But on the morning of Thursday,
June thirteenth, Angie didn't show up for her day job
at a local buse supply store. A friend stopped by
her apartment to make sure she was okay, but by
eleven o'clock that friend was frantically dialing nine to one one.
(04:09):
She'd found Angie Dodge lying face up on her bedroom floor,
half naked and clearly dead. Angie's head was against the
bedroom wall with her legs outstretched. Next to her, there
was a basket of stuffed animals, including a teddy bear,
specked in blood. She'd been stabbed fourteen times and her
throat had been cut.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
She was nearly decapitated. Most of the apartment was undisturbed,
so all of the activity between the assailant and Angie
took place in her bedroom. The crime scene did not
suggest a prolonged struggle. Angie was six feet tall, and
she had a reputation of not taking guph from anybody.
(04:51):
I mean, she would have been the kind of victim
to have fought back, and she did have a few
defensive wounds on her arms and her wrists. The police
theorized that she had been attacked in her sleep and
quickly overwhelmed. But who would want to hurt Angie Dodge.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
The police assured Angie's family, including her mom Carol, that
the killer had left damning evidence behind. Seaman left on
Angie's body yielded a full DNA profile, but police ran
the profile through the state and national DNA databases and
got no hits. They compared it against Angie's male friends
(05:30):
and family members, still no hits, and as summer turned
to fall and the temperatures dropped, the case went cold too.
The case stayed cold until January nineteen ninety seven, when
an acquaintance of Angie's named Ben Hobbs was arrested in
Nevada for a knife point sexual assault. Police started questioning
Ben about whether he was involved in the attack on Angie,
(05:52):
which seemed to be similar, but Ben insisted he had
nothing to do with Angie Dodge and eventually lawyered up.
So instead, police turned to his friend, Chris Tap to
see if they could get some dirt on Ben.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
At the time, Chris was twenty years old, maybe a
year or two older than Angie. In fact, he and
Angie and Ben were part of a young group of
people who hung out on the trails along the Snake
River and partied from time to time.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
This group of friends called themselves the river Rats crew,
and police figured that if one of the river Rats
had attacked Angie, then the others would know about it.
Not only was Chris Tap a river Rat, but one
of the police officers had known Chris for years. He
figured it'd be easy to use their trusting relationship to
make Chris give up whatever he knew about Ben Idaho
(06:41):
fall of the police decided to question Chris, and here
come the interrogations, not one, not two, but eventually nine
of them, spread out over nearly four weeks, for a
total of twenty five hours of questioning. The statements that
police get archaotic, confused, jumbled, and the tactics police used, well,
(07:02):
they're a recipe for wrongful conviction. It all began for
Chris on Tuesday, January seventh. The officer starts by asking
Chris about Ben's possible role in Angie's death. Chris denies
knowing anything about it, over and over again.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I mean, I'm going to be.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Straight up and truful with you.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
If I did anything know about this, I would.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Say what I do on them. That's all true, not lying.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But the police have an unsolved murder on their hands,
and Chris's possible knowledge about Ben Hobbs was the only
lead they had. They try to create leverage with Chris
by implying that he's withholding crucial information and that there
could be consequences if the investigators don't get what they need.
The deeper they get into the interview, the more police
(07:50):
up the pressure. They tell Chris that he has to
tell them something about Ben.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Now, this officer was not a stranger to Chris. He
was a school resource officer whom Chris had known throughout
his life, and one of the tactics this officer used
was the false friend technique, suggesting that he was there
to help Chris to see him through this problem.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I should be.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Saying this, but I kind of close to you. I've
got to know not on these crimes. I could go
out to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And the police suggests that if Chris tells them something
about Ben, then they'd pull some strings that even though
he's getting dragged into the investigation, they'd protect him. He
wouldn't have anything to worry about. It's a theme they'd
go on to repeat again and again, I.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Will get everything the kid.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Chris continues to insist that he doesn't have anything to
tell them, and eventually the cops let him go home,
But a few days later, on Friday, January tenth, the
police are back. They still suspect that Chris is withholding
information to protect his friend. They need more leverage, so
they give him a polygraph test and they tell him
(09:02):
that he flunked it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It was extremely painful to watch because you see someone's
will being broken over and over and over again by
these two interrogators, primarily their friend, the school resource officer
and the polygrapher.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
They also tell Chris that by covering for his friend,
Chris is making himself an accessory to murder, and the
police start warning him that the law treats cover ups
the same as the crime. In other words, Chris Tap
is now facing the gas chamber.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Are looking at it. The possibility getting charged with the
murder one which max penalty is dead middle a penalty
is life, a person footnot row, and save your time period.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
To save your life.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
The thread of death penalty is in the air.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Chris is terrified and so he starts to make things
up in order to please his interrogators and save himself
from a death sentence. He tells a story in which
he'd heard Ben Hobbes admit to killing Angie, and the
cops eat it up. By now they can't wait to
take Ben down for rape and murder, with Chris as
(10:12):
the star member of their team.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
The school resource officer tells Chris at one point that
he really wants Chris to help in nailing Ben Hobbes
so that he could drop kick Ben Hobbes through the
goalposts of life.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Toxic masculinity, anybody, Huh.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I'm serious? Heart attack.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Detectives keep pushing for more details, and they help Chris
out by giving him hints about what they think happened.
They tell Chris, for example, that Angie had been stabbed
with a knife. Pretty soon Chris agrees and says he
heard Ben describe using a knife. But even as Chris
regurgitates these details, he's freaking out, crying hard, terrified that
(11:02):
whatever he says won't satisfy his interrogators, that instead of
helping police drop kick Ben, he'll end up being the football.
But the cops still don't seem convinced, and they start
asking whether the DNA left on Angie's body might belong
to Chris. He rallies, take my DNA. It ain't going
to be me. He says, I was never inside Angie's apartment.
(11:27):
The police let Chris go home again, but they still
think he's not telling them everything he knows about Ben Hobbes.
So the next day, January eleventh, they arrest Chris and
charge him as an accessory who helped cover up Angie
Dodge's murder.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And that threat or suggestion of the gas chamber that's
becoming realer and realer to Chris.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Pretty soon, the promise of help gets more real too.
Chris gets a lawyer, and that lawyer negotiates an immunity agreement.
Under the deal, Chris would escape charges if he provides
information about who raped and killed Angie Dodge. But it's
got to be information that the police will believe, and
the police tell him that in order to go free,
(12:12):
they expect him to say he was present during the attack,
in their words, get us up close. If he does that,
they suggest he can go home. They'll leave him alone,
and we can't help you now. Chris has no choice,
but to tell lies placing him inside Angie's bedroom, and
as police keep pushing, Chris has to take the story
(12:34):
further and further. By the very end, he agrees that
he slashed Angie with a knife and held her down
while Ben raped her.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
To cut Angie Dodge across the.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Right breast with the knife.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Is even though Chris now has agreed to say he
was directly involved, he can't get the story right. He
doesn't know basic facts like the layout of Angie's apartment
or what room the attack occurred in. In fact, at
one point, the police take Chris to Eye Street so
he can point out Angie's home and walk them through
(13:10):
the crime scene, but he can't even tell them which
house she lived in. He guesses that she lived on
the corner when she really lived in the middle of
the block.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This should have been a huge red flag to these officers.
He had previously told them that they won't find his
DNA there because he'd never been to Angie's apartment. But
they are stuck in the Chris tap box and they
can't get out of it.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They refuse to get out of it, even when a
big problem emerges about a week later.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's a problem we've seen in case after case. By
January eighteenth, the police have done DNA testing and the
results are back. Their DNA from the crime scene does
not belong to either Ben Hobbs or Chris Tap.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Neither of them could have been Angie's rapist, and police
accept that Ben Hobbs had nothing to do with this crime.
But Chris, on the other hand, he had confessed to
being there, and why would anyone confess unless they were guilty.
The police decide they'll never know whose DNA was left
at the crime scene, but they stick to their belief
(14:20):
Chris was involved. They conclude that he's been protecting the
identity of the real rapist this whole time. They're furious
and the immunity deal is yanked off the table. Chris
Tap is charged with first degree murder and sexual assault,
and the county prosecutor announces that he'll seek the death penalty.
(14:42):
At Chris's trial, prosecutors show the jury one brief clip
from the interrogation Cherry picked from twenty five hours of videotape.
This excerpt makes his confession seem spontaneous and voluntary, and
on May twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, Chris tap is
convicted of the rape and murder of Angie Dodge. This
(15:17):
is where the hero of our story first comes in
Angie's mother, Carol Dodge, a heartbroken but ferocious woman. Carol
was tortured by the thought that one of Angie's attackers
was still free, the one who had raped her, and
Carol believed Chris knew who the rapist was, so when
the time came for sentencing, Carol Dodge begged the judge
(15:40):
to give Chris the death penalty. When the judge gave
him life in prison instead, Carol broke down sobbing to
her justice hadn't been served. Carol Dodge was right, justice
hadn't been served, but the failures here were more profound
and troubling than even she imagined at first. For years,
(16:00):
an unanswered question remained at the heart of Angie Dodge's case.
Whose DNA had been left on her body?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
The investigation had stalled, and Carol's frustration was going through
the roof intol. One day, about twelve or thirteen years
after Angie's death, Carol decided to take the matter into
her own hands, and the first thing she wanted to
look at were the videotapes of Chris TAP's interrogation.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It's the first time she's seen these tapes from start
to finish, and as she watches them, she's growing angrier
and angrier because those tapes are making her think that
Chris Tap might be innocent. Carol starts doing research online
about false confessions, and whose name comes up, but Steve Drisen.
She picks up the phone and calls them.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Now, I'll never forget this. I was sitting at my
desk one afternoon. It was February twenty second, twenty thirteen,
and the phone ran and on the other end was
Carol Dodge. Now I knew who Carol Dodge was. I
had read about the cap case. I had seen Carol
on an episode of Dateline, but I had never received
(17:14):
a call from a crime victim before. Asking for my assistance,
she said, would you mind reviewing and analyzing these interrogation videos?
Who could say no to Carol Dodge.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Carol sent the videotapes and Steve watched them all. He
wrote an expert report deeming Chris Tapp's confessions unreliable. But
even as Steve and Carroll worked together, others were starting
to raise questions too. An advocacy group called Judges for
Justice started pushing to reopen the investigation. Two former FBI
(17:50):
agents reviewed the case and concluded that the Idaho fall
of Police investigation was deeply flawed, and an internationally recognized
expert concluded that that Chris Tapp's polygraph had been a sham.
The results, he said, weren't worth the paper they were
written on.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Things were starting to congeal around the idea that Chris
was wrongfully convicted. Chris TAP's own attorneys and representatives of
the Idaho Innocence Project were beginning to push the innocence
narrative in court.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What the team really needed was more forensic testing to
show that Chris taps DNA was nowhere in Angie Dodge's bedroom.
Under previous Idaho law, defendants like Chris could only seek
DNA testing during the year immediately following conviction, but that
restriction was lifted in twenty ten and Chris's team jumped
(18:44):
at the opportunity. They had additional testing done on some
other things from Angie's bedroom, that Teddy bear with the
blood on it, and some articles of her clothing. What
was found the same DNA profile as the person who
had left his seamen. We now had multiple DNA hits
to the same guy. While we didn't know who that
(19:05):
guy was, we did know he wasn't Chris Tap. Based
on all these new discoveries, Carol Dodge becomes convinced that
Chris Tap is innocent, and she starts bringing pressure to
bear on the local police department to release Chris and
find her daughter's actual killer. In May twenty sixteen, Chris
(19:27):
TAP's lawyer filed a post conviction petition alleging that new
evidence had cast doubt on the reliability of TAP's confession,
and pretty soon an enormous collection of forces was pushing
the state of Idaho to do the right thing. Judges
for Justice was releasing expert reports and calling for Chris's release,
The Idaho Innocence Project was talking about the new DNA results,
(19:49):
and the Idaho Falls Post Register, the local newspaper, was
hammering the prosecutor to release Chris. One local journalist became
particularly invested in the case. His name is Brian Clark.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I'm the opinion editor of the Post Register in Idaho Falls,
and I'm a former reporter there. I first heard about
the case shortly before Judges for Justice started releasing their
reports about it. My editor approached me and said, I've
got a gift for you. It's not going to feel
like a gift, but I promise it is, And he
(20:22):
introduced me to the Dodge case and the Tap conviction.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Even the Innocence Project in New York had joined the fight,
but no one was pushing harder than Carol Dodge. It
takes an army sometimes, and she was the general Lisimo.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
An example of her tenacity you can actually see in
the architecture of the police station. There are a pair
of doors that are in between the sort of main
lobby area and the area where the detectives and other
police are. The reason they were put in is that
Carol Dodge would show up at the police station, walk
right past the front desk and into the chief's office
(20:59):
and start demanding that he you know, what are you
doing to find my daughter's killer? And so they finally
had to put indoors to keep her from doing that.
They're referred to as the Carol Doors.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Eventually, prosecutors decide that they're not yet ready to exonerate Chris,
but they would agree based on this new DNA evidence
that Chris should be granted immediate release. So in twenty seventeen,
Chris Tap walked out of prison, not yet exonerated, but
a freeman after spending twenty years behind bars.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
You see all the evidence stack up and it becomes
clear the guys spent twenty years behind bars for something
he didn't do, and that did keep me up at nights. Frankly,
after working on it for years, I did not think
it was going to be remedied. So it was really
great to watch them take those handcuffs off. That made
me really happy. The first two people to give him
(21:48):
a hug was his mother, Vera and Carol. They hugged
and they were both crying, and it was just really remarkable.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It was a bittersweet moment. Dodge was relieved that Chris
had been released, but she was also concerned would the
Idaho Falls police and prosecutors now give up the search
for Andy's killer. There was no way she was going
to allow that to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Usually, in these cases, the DNA profile eventually gets matched
and it's the identification of the real killer that leads
to full exoneration. But this wasn't happening for christ Tap.
The single DNA profile left at the scene was run
again and again through the National DNA database, but it
kept coming up dry. You see, profiles get added to
(22:36):
that database only when people are arrested or charged with
certain serious offenses. Clearly, whoever had done this to Angie
Dodge hadn't reoffended, at least not at the level of
severity that would lead to his DNA being included in
that database. But that didn't stop Carroll. She wasn't going
to arrest until that mystery DNA was identified, and she
wanted Idaho police to try a brand new DNA identification
(23:00):
technique called genetic genealogy. Genetic genealogy is basically the use
of DNA evidence in combination with traditional genealogical information. If
you can identify whose DNA it is, at least you
(23:23):
might be able to identify that person's family tree. This
technique was recently used to solve the Golden State killer
case in California. Now in twenty fourteen, police had already
given genetic genealogy a shot in the case of Angi Dodge.
Using the DNA profile from the crime scene and an
ancestry dot com database, they obtained a partial DNA match
(23:44):
to a man in New Orleans, a possible suspect, a
man named Michael Ustri. They became more and more interested
in Usri after it turned out that he was a
filmmaker with a flair for the macabre. He had recently
created a short film called murder Abelia about the market
for collectibles related to real life killings.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And when he told the officers that he had been
to Idaho at some point around the time of this
crime on a camping trip, their expectations soared even higher.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Police interviewed Michael Usri and got his full DNA profile,
but it didn't match the DNA left at the scene.
Film noir or not, he wasn't guilty. As for everyone
else in the Usri family, tree police found themselves out
of leeds again. Every other male in the family was
ruled out too young, too old, never been to Idaho Falls.
(24:36):
But again, Carol Dodge didn't give up. In twenty eighteen,
she found the genetic genealogist who had cracked open the
Golden State killer case, doctor C. C. Moore. Carol pressured
police to hire doctor Moore, and they did. Doctor Moore
started looking through obituaries to fill in the blanks in
the USRI family tree, and she.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
Was able to take samples that were found at the
crime scene and compare them to Geni law logical DNA database.
That led her to a family tree of individuals who
could be related to the person who left the DNA
at the crime scene. And only with the help of
an obscure record that they found in a library, they
were finally able to track down Brian Drips.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Brian Dripps is a biological Uzri who had been adopted
by his stepfather and grew up as part of another family.
By the time his name came up in late twenty eighteen,
Drips was fifty three years old, and it turned out
he used to live in Idaho Falls, right across the
street from Angie Dodge.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Police had actually interviewed him during a canvas of the
crime scene and the area around where the crime occurred.
They interviewed the true killer within days of Angie Dodge's murder.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Brian Dripps had left Idaho Falls shortly after the killing.
He was now living in a different part of Idaho,
and he wasn't in the national DNA database. He was
the perfect suspect. Now all police needed was a complete
DNA match. They started tailing Drips, and they found their
opportunity when he threw a cigarette butt out his car window.
(26:12):
Police recovered that cigarette butt, and there it was a
DNA match to the evidence left in Angie's bedroom all
those years ago. After more than two decades, Brian Drips
was arrested for the rape and murder of Angie Dodge,
and Chris Tap was finally exonerated in an Idaho courtroom
(26:35):
on July seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Since then, Chris Tap and
Carol Dodge have become close. They've even appeared on television
together to tell their intertwined stories of injustice. For his part,
Brian Drips is currently incarcerated in Idaho Falls, where he's
awaiting trial on first degree murder and rape charges. He's
(26:55):
entered a plea if not guilty, for justice can be
a long, slow crawl. Carol and Chris know this better
than anyone.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Assuming Brian Drips is eventually convicted, she will have not
only freedom innocent man, but driven the effort to catch
the guilty one. She's been the driving force behind this
whole thing, both the exoneration of Chris Tap and the
apprehension of Brian drips.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Slowly but surely, over many years, she was able to
get the Idaho Falls Police out of the Chris tap box.
She got them to see the truth.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Keryl, Yeah, Hi, how are you today, Steve.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
I'm really sad. I was just sitting here thinking with
the cost of justice, those all the things that I
sacrificed because of people that could have done the right
thing at the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
It's so important that you say that. People really don't know.
It's been a real price to your twenty three year.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
Search for the troops. And I never allowed any of
the authorities to tell me. Now, for the time they
told me that something couldn't be done, I would just say,
we'll watch me.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
There things that your work has done which you probably
can't even see or appreciate yet that I hope gives
you some comfort.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
It does.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I love you.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I love you too, and thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Hello.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
Hey, Chris, it's Laura. How are you good, Laura?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (28:44):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
So tell me about what you've been doing with your
time as a free man. I understand I've got a family.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I do. I have an amazing family. Lucie I got
out in March of twenty seventeen. I met my wife
two months later in May, and well would romance and
we were married in July. I have three beautiful step
children or children on my own as I could love
to call um. I have an almost twenty one year old,
I got a sixteen year old, and I almost got
a fifteen year old boy. Tell me a little bit about.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
What it's meant to you to have Carol Dodge sight
for you.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh Carol Dodge, I love her dearly more than most
people will ever know. The actual true killer of her
daughter would be caught, and I wouldn't have the exoneration
that wasn't for Carroll Dodge.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Chris, it was a great honor for me to play
even a small role in your exoneration, and being in
that courtroom when you were finally cleared was one of
the highlights of my career. You've been given a gift,
and I hope you take this gift, and I know
you will, and that you live a life that is
honorable and.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Worthy to Chris Tap and Carol Dodge, two of our heroes.
Thanks for letting us share your story. Wrongful conviction, false
confessions is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number One. Special thanks to our
(30:14):
executive producer Jason Flamm and the team at Signal Company
Number one Executive producer Kevin Wardis, Senior producer and Pope
and additional production and editing by Connor Hall. Special thanks
to Jogi Hammer for additional script editing and for wrangling
and writing like a mad Woman. Special thanks to Mike
Heavey for organizing and editing Chris Tabs interrogation videos. Our
(30:37):
music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow me
on Instagram or Twitter at Laura Nyrid and you can follow.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Me on Twitter at s Drisen.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
For more information on the show, visit Wrongfulconviction podcast dot
com and be sure to follow the show on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction
Hey there, it's Laura and I writer. I am here
with an update on a case we shared with you
back in season one of False Confessions. It's the story
of a mother, Carol Dodge, and her relentless pursuit of
justice for her daughter Angie. Now, when we first aired
this story, the real perpetrator had been identified Brian Drips,
But since we aired this story, Brian Drips has been
(00:26):
tried and convicted, sentenced to twenty years to life for
the murder of Angie Dodge. But while Brian Dripps was
living as a freeman for twenty years, it was Chris
Tapp who suffered in prison for a crime he didn't commit.
No amount of money can ever make up for what
Chris lost. But I'm glad to tell you that the
State of Idaho settled Chris TAP's wrongful conviction case for
(00:47):
over eleven million dollars. To Chris and Carol were replaying
this story in your honor. Welcome to Wrongful Convictions Confessions.
I'm Laura and I Writer.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And I'm Steve Drissen.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Today we're going to tell you about an Idaho man
named Chris Tap. Chris was just twenty years old when
he endured a mind bending twenty five hour interrogation that
transformed him from an innocent into a confessed murderer. Fortunately
for Chris, he found an indomitable champion in the victim's mother.
She convinced police to use a revolutionary new method of
(01:26):
DNA identification to exonerate Chris Tap and find her own
daughter's killer.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There are certain special people you meet in your life,
people that I like to say are more evolved than
the rest of us, people that really inspire you. And
Carol Dodge is one of those people. It's one of
the few times in my career as a lawyer where
someone from the victim's family has asked me to investigate
(02:01):
an injustice and for a crime victim who was so
invested in Chris's guilt that she wanted him to get
the death penalty, to evolve to a place where she
was thinking he might be innocent. That just blew me away.
How was it that a lay person could look at
these interrogation tapes and see all of the problems, all
(02:24):
of the coercion, all of the leading questions, all of
the fact feeding. When law enforcement officers on the Idaho
Falls Police Department couldn't see it themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And it shows that wrongful convictions affect more than just
the defendants. It's also the victim's families, the survivors of
these horrible attacks, who are being fed aligne about an
innocent person being guilty.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It wasn't easy. She had help from a lot of
other people, but it was her persistence and her desire
for knowledge that ultimately changed the course of this say.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Kristap's story starts in Idaho Falls, a town of about
one hundred thousand people in southeastern Idaho, about two hours
north of Yellowstone National Park. Idaho Falls is a beautiful place.
There's mountains on the horizon and the Snake River cut
straight through town. Gorgeous though it may be, the town
was wrecked by terrible ugliness nearly twenty four years ago.
(03:27):
In June nineteen ninety six, Idaho Falls resident Angie Dodge
was eighteen years old. She graduated from high school the
year before, a head of schedule with honors, and life
was just beginning for her. She was working two jobs,
taking a few classes at Idaho State, becoming independent. In fact,
Angie had just recently moved into her first apartment, the
(03:48):
upper floor of a little frame house on Eye Street
where she lived by herself. But on the morning of Thursday,
June thirteenth, Angie didn't show up for her day job
at a local buse supply store. A friend stopped by
her apartment to make sure she was okay, but by
eleven o'clock that friend was frantically dialing nine to one one.
(04:09):
She'd found Angie Dodge lying face up on her bedroom floor,
half naked and clearly dead. Angie's head was against the
bedroom wall with her legs outstretched. Next to her, there
was a basket of stuffed animals, including a teddy bear,
specked in blood. She'd been stabbed fourteen times and her
throat had been cut.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
She was nearly decapitated. Most of the apartment was undisturbed,
so all of the activity between the assailant and Angie
took place in her bedroom. The crime scene did not
suggest a prolonged struggle. Angie was six feet tall, and
she had a reputation of not taking guph from anybody.
(04:51):
I mean, she would have been the kind of victim
to have fought back, and she did have a few
defensive wounds on her arms and her wrists. The police
theorized that she had been attacked in her sleep and
quickly overwhelmed. But who would want to hurt Angie Dodge.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
The police assured Angie's family, including her mom Carol, that
the killer had left damning evidence behind. Seaman left on
Angie's body yielded a full DNA profile, but police ran
the profile through the state and national DNA databases and
got no hits. They compared it against Angie's male friends
(05:30):
and family members, still no hits, and as summer turned
to fall and the temperatures dropped, the case went cold too.
The case stayed cold until January nineteen ninety seven, when
an acquaintance of Angie's named Ben Hobbs was arrested in
Nevada for a knife point sexual assault. Police started questioning
Ben about whether he was involved in the attack on Angie,
(05:52):
which seemed to be similar, but Ben insisted he had
nothing to do with Angie Dodge and eventually lawyered up.
So instead, police turned to his friend, Chris Tap to
see if they could get some dirt on Ben.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
At the time, Chris was twenty years old, maybe a
year or two older than Angie. In fact, he and
Angie and Ben were part of a young group of
people who hung out on the trails along the Snake
River and partied from time to time.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
This group of friends called themselves the river Rats crew,
and police figured that if one of the river Rats
had attacked Angie, then the others would know about it.
Not only was Chris Tap a river Rat, but one
of the police officers had known Chris for years. He
figured it'd be easy to use their trusting relationship to
make Chris give up whatever he knew about Ben Idaho
(06:41):
fall of the police decided to question Chris, and here
come the interrogations, not one, not two, but eventually nine
of them, spread out over nearly four weeks, for a
total of twenty five hours of questioning. The statements that
police get archaotic, confused, jumbled, and the tactics police used, well,
(07:02):
they're a recipe for wrongful conviction. It all began for
Chris on Tuesday, January seventh. The officer starts by asking
Chris about Ben's possible role in Angie's death. Chris denies
knowing anything about it, over and over again.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
I mean, I'm going to be.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Straight up and truful with you.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
If I did anything know about this, I would.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Say what I do on them. That's all true, not lying.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
But the police have an unsolved murder on their hands,
and Chris's possible knowledge about Ben Hobbs was the only
lead they had. They try to create leverage with Chris
by implying that he's withholding crucial information and that there
could be consequences if the investigators don't get what they need.
The deeper they get into the interview, the more police
(07:50):
up the pressure. They tell Chris that he has to
tell them something about Ben.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Now, this officer was not a stranger to Chris. He
was a school resource officer whom Chris had known throughout
his life, and one of the tactics this officer used
was the false friend technique, suggesting that he was there
to help Chris to see him through this problem.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I should be.
Speaker 5 (08:14):
Saying this, but I kind of close to you. I've
got to know not on these crimes. I could go
out to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And the police suggests that if Chris tells them something
about Ben, then they'd pull some strings that even though
he's getting dragged into the investigation, they'd protect him. He
wouldn't have anything to worry about. It's a theme they'd
go on to repeat again and again, I.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Will get everything the kid.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Chris continues to insist that he doesn't have anything to
tell them, and eventually the cops let him go home,
But a few days later, on Friday, January tenth, the
police are back. They still suspect that Chris is withholding
information to protect his friend. They need more leverage, so
they give him a polygraph test and they tell him
(09:02):
that he flunked it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It was extremely painful to watch because you see someone's
will being broken over and over and over again by
these two interrogators, primarily their friend, the school resource officer
and the polygrapher.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
They also tell Chris that by covering for his friend,
Chris is making himself an accessory to murder, and the
police start warning him that the law treats cover ups
the same as the crime. In other words, Chris Tap
is now facing the gas chamber.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Are looking at it. The possibility getting charged with the
murder one which max penalty is dead middle a penalty
is life, a person footnot row, and save your time period.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
To save your life.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
The thread of death penalty is in the air.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Chris is terrified and so he starts to make things
up in order to please his interrogators and save himself
from a death sentence. He tells a story in which
he'd heard Ben Hobbes admit to killing Angie, and the
cops eat it up. By now they can't wait to
take Ben down for rape and murder, with Chris as
(10:12):
the star member of their team.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
The school resource officer tells Chris at one point that
he really wants Chris to help in nailing Ben Hobbes
so that he could drop kick Ben Hobbes through the
goalposts of life.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Toxic masculinity, anybody, Huh.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I'm serious? Heart attack.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Detectives keep pushing for more details, and they help Chris
out by giving him hints about what they think happened.
They tell Chris, for example, that Angie had been stabbed
with a knife. Pretty soon Chris agrees and says he
heard Ben describe using a knife. But even as Chris
regurgitates these details, he's freaking out, crying hard, terrified that
(11:02):
whatever he says won't satisfy his interrogators, that instead of
helping police drop kick Ben, he'll end up being the football.
But the cops still don't seem convinced, and they start
asking whether the DNA left on Angie's body might belong
to Chris. He rallies, take my DNA. It ain't going
to be me. He says, I was never inside Angie's apartment.
(11:27):
The police let Chris go home again, but they still
think he's not telling them everything he knows about Ben Hobbes.
So the next day, January eleventh, they arrest Chris and
charge him as an accessory who helped cover up Angie
Dodge's murder.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And that threat or suggestion of the gas chamber that's
becoming realer and realer to Chris.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Pretty soon, the promise of help gets more real too.
Chris gets a lawyer, and that lawyer negotiates an immunity agreement.
Under the deal, Chris would escape charges if he provides
information about who raped and killed Angie Dodge. But it's
got to be information that the police will believe, and
the police tell him that in order to go free,
(12:12):
they expect him to say he was present during the attack,
in their words, get us up close. If he does that,
they suggest he can go home. They'll leave him alone,
and we can't help you now. Chris has no choice,
but to tell lies placing him inside Angie's bedroom, and
as police keep pushing, Chris has to take the story
(12:34):
further and further. By the very end, he agrees that
he slashed Angie with a knife and held her down
while Ben raped her.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
To cut Angie Dodge across the.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Right breast with the knife.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Is even though Chris now has agreed to say he
was directly involved, he can't get the story right. He
doesn't know basic facts like the layout of Angie's apartment
or what room the attack occurred in. In fact, at
one point, the police take Chris to Eye Street so
he can point out Angie's home and walk them through
(13:10):
the crime scene, but he can't even tell them which
house she lived in. He guesses that she lived on
the corner when she really lived in the middle of
the block.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This should have been a huge red flag to these officers.
He had previously told them that they won't find his
DNA there because he'd never been to Angie's apartment. But
they are stuck in the Chris tap box and they
can't get out of it.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
They refuse to get out of it, even when a
big problem emerges about a week later.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's a problem we've seen in case after case. By
January eighteenth, the police have done DNA testing and the
results are back. Their DNA from the crime scene does
not belong to either Ben Hobbs or Chris Tap.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Neither of them could have been Angie's rapist, and police
accept that Ben Hobbs had nothing to do with this crime.
But Chris, on the other hand, he had confessed to
being there, and why would anyone confess unless they were guilty.
The police decide they'll never know whose DNA was left
at the crime scene, but they stick to their belief
(14:20):
Chris was involved. They conclude that he's been protecting the
identity of the real rapist this whole time. They're furious
and the immunity deal is yanked off the table. Chris
Tap is charged with first degree murder and sexual assault,
and the county prosecutor announces that he'll seek the death penalty.
(14:42):
At Chris's trial, prosecutors show the jury one brief clip
from the interrogation Cherry picked from twenty five hours of videotape.
This excerpt makes his confession seem spontaneous and voluntary, and
on May twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, Chris tap is
convicted of the rape and murder of Angie Dodge. This
(15:17):
is where the hero of our story first comes in
Angie's mother, Carol Dodge, a heartbroken but ferocious woman. Carol
was tortured by the thought that one of Angie's attackers
was still free, the one who had raped her, and
Carol believed Chris knew who the rapist was, so when
the time came for sentencing, Carol Dodge begged the judge
(15:40):
to give Chris the death penalty. When the judge gave
him life in prison instead, Carol broke down sobbing to
her justice hadn't been served. Carol Dodge was right, justice
hadn't been served, but the failures here were more profound
and troubling than even she imagined at first. For years,
(16:00):
an unanswered question remained at the heart of Angie Dodge's case.
Whose DNA had been left on her body?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
The investigation had stalled, and Carol's frustration was going through
the roof intol. One day, about twelve or thirteen years
after Angie's death, Carol decided to take the matter into
her own hands, and the first thing she wanted to
look at were the videotapes of Chris TAP's interrogation.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
It's the first time she's seen these tapes from start
to finish, and as she watches them, she's growing angrier
and angrier because those tapes are making her think that
Chris Tap might be innocent. Carol starts doing research online
about false confessions, and whose name comes up, but Steve Drisen.
She picks up the phone and calls them.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Now, I'll never forget this. I was sitting at my
desk one afternoon. It was February twenty second, twenty thirteen,
and the phone ran and on the other end was
Carol Dodge. Now I knew who Carol Dodge was. I
had read about the cap case. I had seen Carol
on an episode of Dateline, but I had never received
(17:14):
a call from a crime victim before. Asking for my assistance,
she said, would you mind reviewing and analyzing these interrogation videos?
Who could say no to Carol Dodge.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Carol sent the videotapes and Steve watched them all. He
wrote an expert report deeming Chris Tapp's confessions unreliable. But
even as Steve and Carroll worked together, others were starting
to raise questions too. An advocacy group called Judges for
Justice started pushing to reopen the investigation. Two former FBI
(17:50):
agents reviewed the case and concluded that the Idaho fall
of Police investigation was deeply flawed, and an internationally recognized
expert concluded that that Chris Tapp's polygraph had been a sham.
The results, he said, weren't worth the paper they were
written on.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Things were starting to congeal around the idea that Chris
was wrongfully convicted. Chris TAP's own attorneys and representatives of
the Idaho Innocence Project were beginning to push the innocence
narrative in court.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
What the team really needed was more forensic testing to
show that Chris taps DNA was nowhere in Angie Dodge's bedroom.
Under previous Idaho law, defendants like Chris could only seek
DNA testing during the year immediately following conviction, but that
restriction was lifted in twenty ten and Chris's team jumped
(18:44):
at the opportunity. They had additional testing done on some
other things from Angie's bedroom, that Teddy bear with the
blood on it, and some articles of her clothing. What
was found the same DNA profile as the person who
had left his seamen. We now had multiple DNA hits
to the same guy. While we didn't know who that
(19:05):
guy was, we did know he wasn't Chris Tap. Based
on all these new discoveries, Carol Dodge becomes convinced that
Chris Tap is innocent, and she starts bringing pressure to
bear on the local police department to release Chris and
find her daughter's actual killer. In May twenty sixteen, Chris
(19:27):
TAP's lawyer filed a post conviction petition alleging that new
evidence had cast doubt on the reliability of TAP's confession,
and pretty soon an enormous collection of forces was pushing
the state of Idaho to do the right thing. Judges
for Justice was releasing expert reports and calling for Chris's release,
The Idaho Innocence Project was talking about the new DNA results,
(19:49):
and the Idaho Falls Post Register, the local newspaper, was
hammering the prosecutor to release Chris. One local journalist became
particularly invested in the case. His name is Brian Clark.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
I'm the opinion editor of the Post Register in Idaho Falls,
and I'm a former reporter there. I first heard about
the case shortly before Judges for Justice started releasing their
reports about it. My editor approached me and said, I've
got a gift for you. It's not going to feel
like a gift, but I promise it is, And he
(20:22):
introduced me to the Dodge case and the Tap conviction.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Even the Innocence Project in New York had joined the fight,
but no one was pushing harder than Carol Dodge. It
takes an army sometimes, and she was the general Lisimo.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
An example of her tenacity you can actually see in
the architecture of the police station. There are a pair
of doors that are in between the sort of main
lobby area and the area where the detectives and other
police are. The reason they were put in is that
Carol Dodge would show up at the police station, walk
right past the front desk and into the chief's office
(20:59):
and start demanding that he you know, what are you
doing to find my daughter's killer? And so they finally
had to put indoors to keep her from doing that.
They're referred to as the Carol Doors.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Eventually, prosecutors decide that they're not yet ready to exonerate Chris,
but they would agree based on this new DNA evidence
that Chris should be granted immediate release. So in twenty seventeen,
Chris Tap walked out of prison, not yet exonerated, but
a freeman after spending twenty years behind bars.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
You see all the evidence stack up and it becomes
clear the guys spent twenty years behind bars for something
he didn't do, and that did keep me up at nights. Frankly,
after working on it for years, I did not think
it was going to be remedied. So it was really
great to watch them take those handcuffs off. That made
me really happy. The first two people to give him
(21:48):
a hug was his mother, Vera and Carol. They hugged
and they were both crying, and it was just really remarkable.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It was a bittersweet moment. Dodge was relieved that Chris
had been released, but she was also concerned would the
Idaho Falls police and prosecutors now give up the search
for Andy's killer. There was no way she was going
to allow that to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Usually, in these cases, the DNA profile eventually gets matched
and it's the identification of the real killer that leads
to full exoneration. But this wasn't happening for christ Tap.
The single DNA profile left at the scene was run
again and again through the National DNA database, but it
kept coming up dry. You see, profiles get added to
(22:36):
that database only when people are arrested or charged with
certain serious offenses. Clearly, whoever had done this to Angie
Dodge hadn't reoffended, at least not at the level of
severity that would lead to his DNA being included in
that database. But that didn't stop Carroll. She wasn't going
to arrest until that mystery DNA was identified, and she
wanted Idaho police to try a brand new DNA identification
(23:00):
technique called genetic genealogy. Genetic genealogy is basically the use
of DNA evidence in combination with traditional genealogical information. If
you can identify whose DNA it is, at least you
(23:23):
might be able to identify that person's family tree. This
technique was recently used to solve the Golden State killer
case in California. Now in twenty fourteen, police had already
given genetic genealogy a shot in the case of Angi Dodge.
Using the DNA profile from the crime scene and an
ancestry dot com database, they obtained a partial DNA match
(23:44):
to a man in New Orleans, a possible suspect, a
man named Michael Ustri. They became more and more interested
in Usri after it turned out that he was a
filmmaker with a flair for the macabre. He had recently
created a short film called murder Abelia about the market
for collectibles related to real life killings.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And when he told the officers that he had been
to Idaho at some point around the time of this
crime on a camping trip, their expectations soared even higher.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Police interviewed Michael Usri and got his full DNA profile,
but it didn't match the DNA left at the scene.
Film noir or not, he wasn't guilty. As for everyone
else in the Usri family, tree police found themselves out
of leeds again. Every other male in the family was
ruled out too young, too old, never been to Idaho Falls.
(24:36):
But again, Carol Dodge didn't give up. In twenty eighteen,
she found the genetic genealogist who had cracked open the
Golden State killer case, doctor C. C. Moore. Carol pressured
police to hire doctor Moore, and they did. Doctor Moore
started looking through obituaries to fill in the blanks in
the USRI family tree, and she.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
Was able to take samples that were found at the
crime scene and compare them to Geni law logical DNA database.
That led her to a family tree of individuals who
could be related to the person who left the DNA
at the crime scene. And only with the help of
an obscure record that they found in a library, they
were finally able to track down Brian Drips.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Brian Dripps is a biological Uzri who had been adopted
by his stepfather and grew up as part of another family.
By the time his name came up in late twenty eighteen,
Drips was fifty three years old, and it turned out
he used to live in Idaho Falls, right across the
street from Angie Dodge.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Police had actually interviewed him during a canvas of the
crime scene and the area around where the crime occurred.
They interviewed the true killer within days of Angie Dodge's murder.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Brian Dripps had left Idaho Falls shortly after the killing.
He was now living in a different part of Idaho,
and he wasn't in the national DNA database. He was
the perfect suspect. Now all police needed was a complete
DNA match. They started tailing Drips, and they found their
opportunity when he threw a cigarette butt out his car window.
(26:12):
Police recovered that cigarette butt, and there it was a
DNA match to the evidence left in Angie's bedroom all
those years ago. After more than two decades, Brian Drips
was arrested for the rape and murder of Angie Dodge,
and Chris Tap was finally exonerated in an Idaho courtroom
(26:35):
on July seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Since then, Chris Tap and
Carol Dodge have become close. They've even appeared on television
together to tell their intertwined stories of injustice. For his part,
Brian Drips is currently incarcerated in Idaho Falls, where he's
awaiting trial on first degree murder and rape charges. He's
(26:55):
entered a plea if not guilty, for justice can be
a long, slow crawl. Carol and Chris know this better
than anyone.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Assuming Brian Drips is eventually convicted, she will have not
only freedom innocent man, but driven the effort to catch
the guilty one. She's been the driving force behind this
whole thing, both the exoneration of Chris Tap and the
apprehension of Brian drips.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Slowly but surely, over many years, she was able to
get the Idaho Falls Police out of the Chris tap box.
She got them to see the truth.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Keryl, Yeah, Hi, how are you today, Steve.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
I'm really sad. I was just sitting here thinking with
the cost of justice, those all the things that I
sacrificed because of people that could have done the right
thing at the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
It's so important that you say that. People really don't know.
It's been a real price to your twenty three year.
Speaker 7 (28:04):
Search for the troops. And I never allowed any of
the authorities to tell me. Now, for the time they
told me that something couldn't be done, I would just say,
we'll watch me.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
There things that your work has done which you probably
can't even see or appreciate yet that I hope gives
you some comfort.
Speaker 7 (28:28):
It does.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
I love you.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
I love you too, and thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Hello.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
Hey, Chris, it's Laura. How are you good, Laura?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (28:44):
I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
So tell me about what you've been doing with your
time as a free man. I understand I've got a family.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I do. I have an amazing family. Lucie I got
out in March of twenty seventeen. I met my wife
two months later in May, and well would romance and
we were married in July. I have three beautiful step
children or children on my own as I could love
to call um. I have an almost twenty one year old,
I got a sixteen year old, and I almost got
a fifteen year old boy. Tell me a little bit about.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
What it's meant to you to have Carol Dodge sight
for you.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh Carol Dodge, I love her dearly more than most
people will ever know. The actual true killer of her
daughter would be caught, and I wouldn't have the exoneration
that wasn't for Carroll Dodge.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Chris, it was a great honor for me to play
even a small role in your exoneration, and being in
that courtroom when you were finally cleared was one of
the highlights of my career. You've been given a gift,
and I hope you take this gift, and I know
you will, and that you live a life that is
honorable and.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Worthy to Chris Tap and Carol Dodge, two of our heroes.
Thanks for letting us share your story. Wrongful conviction, false
confessions is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number One. Special thanks to our
(30:14):
executive producer Jason Flamm and the team at Signal Company
Number one Executive producer Kevin Wardis, Senior producer and Pope
and additional production and editing by Connor Hall. Special thanks
to Jogi Hammer for additional script editing and for wrangling
and writing like a mad Woman. Special thanks to Mike
Heavey for organizing and editing Chris Tabs interrogation videos. Our
(30:37):
music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow me
on Instagram or Twitter at Laura Nyrid and you can follow.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Me on Twitter at s Drisen.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
For more information on the show, visit Wrongfulconviction podcast dot
com and be sure to follow the show on Instagram
at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and
on Twitter at wrong Conviction
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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