30 - The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show

This week, Karen and Georgia discuss serial killer Cary Stayner and the Yosemite murders as well as con man/murderer Clark Rockefeller (aka Christian Gerhartsreiter aka Chris Crowe aka Chris Chichester.)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Are you let's have let's be really low energy this time.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Let's be as quiet as we can.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yes, and I screwed it up already.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes you want to be quiet?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh god, Hi, welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's Georgia hard Star, that's Karen Kilgareff, the Quietest, We're
the quietest girls. We're so quiet on podcast. Thanks for
thanks for being here. It's like spending your spending an
hour with us. Thanks thinking about things with us.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Guys. There's so much going on in our world, not
the least of which is how Georgia doesn't like stranger things.
There's someone at the door. They're here to hang you
up from the highest limb of a tree.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I didn't. I don't not like it. I have issues
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, let's hear well.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
It reminds me remember the old Stephen King movies that
would be made of Stephen King books that would be
on that would remain for TV, like Dinner, and how
ridiculous they were. And if you guys say, what about
True or a Pet Cemetery, go back and watch it again.
It's the corniest movie.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
But it would that was a feature film, right, and
there was some scary shit.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, I love that movie, but if you go back,
you're like, oh, this is so corny.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
It doesn't hold up.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, And it reminds me kind of of that of
Stephen King, like made for TV movies and maybe it's
so kind of supposed to, but I also just it
reminded me of like someone who doesn't read sci fi
made a show about sci fi. Yes, and like I
feel like if it's the kind of movie where if
someone who had read the book were watching it, which

(02:03):
I know there's not a book, but if you were,
you'd be like, why the fuck did they leave this
thing out? This was the most important part. Like I
feel like I would have been screaming that if I
had read the book.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, you know, I've found I think because I like
seeing I'm at that stage where that kind of nostalgia
works on me because it's from when I was ten.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, I love the look and feel, but that other
stuff took me out of it.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, and it's really hard to connect. This is kind
of like the Stephen King problem and like lost a
lot of those things. When you get your big good
idea that's going to freak people out and hook people in,
and then you try to connect that with kind of
believable science or something grounded. It's very difficult to do.
So it's like the upside down, right is what?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah it was called, but there was enough fact that.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
You just kind of entered it through this weird I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, and you could go get your like it just yeah,
there was a lot of wait, what in it for me?

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Like, and if you can walk into it, then why
does she have to go into the thing to get it?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
And like, well, what is it? What is it made
out of? Why did this happen? Why did this person exist? Yeah?
Why did they? How did she get out of the Yeah? Yeah,
it's this is another episode of Georgia can't suspend her disbelief.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know, and it's a valid angle I do.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
However, like the Night Of, I've gone through I'm three
episodes in.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, Well when you get to the episode that aired
last night, Oh my god. First of all, I keep
falling asleep in front of the TV after watching Night
Of and then dreaming about riz Amed all night, which
makes me crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
They were showing photos of him as a kid, like
as part of this show, and but there were real
photos of him as a kid, and I was like,
I want that DNA inside of me, like I want
that baby.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
That's like, that's the biggest kind of crush you can
have when you want their DNA, Because want.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Your DNA inside me. That's like a serial killer, Valentine.
That's a discuss. That's a serial killer, Valentine.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
No, that's how I feel about him. I steal that
idea from you, and.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
I don't want to sleep with him. I have a
husband that I love who doesn't want kids, So I'll
just have one from him with big eyes and like.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Beauty, and after he and I marry and have many
of our own, and you can we.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Get into a thing here.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
I guess we could fun fund good for the podcast. Yeah,
there's a thing that happens that I wish you were
up to my episode because it actually kind of kind
of loops into this podcast and it's just fascinating. Angle
say it.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I don't care. Is it gonna spoil for everyone including me? No, Okay,
I don't care, then say it.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
But if you if you haven't seen past, like George's
on episode three, and if you don't want anything, just
don't listen to this part. And it's the Remember when
they stop at the gas station and there's that guy
that's got the hearse that he walks by and the
guy gives them a week. Yes, he comes back.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
They all come back.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
He comes back big time.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay. Him and then the guy who was yelling racial
slurs at them. Two he was walking with someone else
down the sidewalk and when he's being interviewed, he says
he was alone. That's of course, that's a big thing.
I also think that the stepdad is going to come back.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yes, right, you've got to catch up because there's some
good stuff happening. It got you know, they had to
do a lot of exposition and setting that thing up
of him being in jail, which bums me out long.
It's such a bummer.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
It's a very long, long show. Episodic Okay, two things.
It's like a play. It is like a play. I
would watch a whole show of just John Taturou and
about his EXEMA. Didn't know there were EXEMA support groups.
That's fascinating. Those poor people.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
They can't date. I don't want look at them.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Was that awful? Yeah, that's amazing. And then last night
yesterday when I watched it. Janet Colegate is now a
character from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. What you know, the female lawyer. Oh? Yes, yes, yes,
yes yeah. I'm so happy when I named her name
Janet Colegate, I said when she came on screen. I
said it in like in a accent that was said,

(06:24):
and I think Vince was like, who today? What have
I married?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
What's that actress's name?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
You think I can remember her character from a cheesy
movie from the eighties, but I can't remember her real name.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Her name is?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
You get this? You always get this, I know, but
it's hot Elizabeth. Nope, it's Nancy Stacy, Nancy.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's my favorite actress, Stacy, Nancy from such.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Plays as Nancy Sy and Nancy Saint Stacy.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
That's the best stage name of all time.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Taking it stealing Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgarret and Nancy
Saints Stacy.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Oh my god, that's good.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
I'm so sweaty.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Are you looking it up? Stephen?

Speaker 3 (07:07):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Step Is the letter P in her first or last name?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Penelope? Not at all?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Damn it.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Glenn Headley said that as if it was something tongue
it was.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
It was nowhere near me.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Glenn Headley, Glenn.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Headley, she's such a great actress.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
She is. But oh, her name, Stephen RMI Morris, thank
you for that.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
But yeah, anytime that's that's like one of those white,
waspy names I would have never gotten in my world.
Girls can't be named Glenn.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I've definitely never heard that before.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, that's a family name. I'm sure, I'm.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Sure it is. That's not a crest somewhere.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
But so two thumbs up for the night of Yeah,
watch it. We're not talking about this, We're not talking
about Stranger things anymore. Yeah, i'd gone off.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I did you like the ending that they left it open?
Obviously for a second season.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm going to admit I fell asleep at some point
in the later episodes and I can't remember how.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
And they ended it in a way that was there's
just like no satisfying ending, can I tell you?

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Because do you think there're gonna be a season two?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, Nancy and Steve are still together? What? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:15):
But she didn't love him?

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Does she?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
She doesn't?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Does she love fake Ben Schwartz? That's all I could
see when I saw him.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
That's exactly what he looks like.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
He looks so much. He's like wasp Ben Schwartz.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, he looks like if Ben Schwartz got put through
a rock and roll machine.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Everyone like a Benjawarts. I promise nothing wrong with him,
but I just couldn't see that character.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
But sorry, she goes back to him.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I feel like I just I should have spoiled alerted that.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, that's a big spoiler for me.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I feel like I just burped really loudly and like
without warning anyone or saying excuse me before or after,
excuse me, excuse me, excuse me? Can I say?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Can I read you? My favorite tweet that we've gotten
on my favorite murder Twitter.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Always This is tweet Corner with Karen.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Tweet Corner Welcome, We're me or me or meo. That's
the theme song. Okay uh Mimi, the unsung cat of
the Herd Stark Household.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
She sings the theme song to tweet corner. Yo, Mimi's
got to have her her spot and.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
The Yeah, this is it, She's come to shine?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Ready me me?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah? Me o, ma'ammeo. She's totally asleep. Someone on Twitter
named trash Panda.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I r L already that's not a real person.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Read read what her name is, oh tween sensation tweet
sensation is her handle? Okay, trash Panda I r L
is her I don't know what name. I don't know
trash Panda and on her on her Twitter account. Sorry,
but I just noticed this. Her header picture is a
picture of Barb and it says in memory of bar

(09:59):
I can see you on the other side. That's incredible
illustration of Barb from Stranger Things. Hell, yeah, trash Panda.
Way to bring it all around. So she tweeted at
us and said, my dad keeps calling your show the
fuck word murder Mystery Show because he can't remember the name.
And I cannot stop laughing at that. My dad keeps

(10:21):
calling your show the fuck word mystery murder mystery show
because he can't remember the name. That is so first
of all, I can't if my dad heard a podcast
where girls were saying the F word, he would pull
the stereo out of the car and throw it out
O my way. I swear if my dad ever hears this,

(10:42):
he's going to call me with such a stern tone.
And so I love the fact that trash Panda Irl's
dad is even listening to.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
It at all.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I love him.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
He sounds like my.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Dad and I think we might need to change the
name of this podcast to the suck Word Murder Mystery Show.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I try not to do this, but someone who makes
the memes needs to get our logo and change it
into say it one. We're talking because it makes me
so happy, the theckword Murder Mystery Show. It's just you.
Can I read you something that's probably going to make
you want to cry? Yes? You ready for this?

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Okay? Wait?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Are you ship?

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah? Oh no?

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Should I start crying? First?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Start crying?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Now I'll just think.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
About Oh no, what happened?

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Wait? Now should I cry?

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Because you try it?

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Here we go?

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Ready?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
All right? Wait? Oh son of a bitch. Okay, I
found it.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Okay, I'm emotionally ready for you. Read whatever this is.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Liz C on the Facebook page says I'm nineteen years
old and fighting cancer at the moment. Ready to cry? Yep.
My dad and I listen to the podcast on the
way to the hospital and back. Oh it's a great
way to keep my mind off things, except now I'm
scared to get murders lmao. I can't wait for the

(12:11):
new shirts to come out I'm definitely going to be
wearing it to the hospital. Love call you murder Reinos.
And then there's two hundred comments, including mine that says
your next shirt is on the fucking house and that's
your name, Liz, Liz.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, Liz, Hey, Liz, you fight the good fight, get
in there, you do your fucking chemo or however you're
taking care of this business and get it taken care
of and get it out of you. And many years
of this stupid bullshit to come. Wait the podcast or
cancer uh no, no, none of that, only the podcast

(12:45):
and then general fun things in life.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, murder cancer, You're gonna be the smartest person, you
know because you've dealt with this thing.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
And you're gonna have a great perspective online.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Total.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
I actually know many cancer survivors, and the cool part
about it is one you get through that all that
bullshit of like that girl took my brush and now
I'm going to try to ruin and you don't do
that shit anymore because you're like, yeah, you're like, oh,
I understand what losses. Yeah, and I understand the gift
of life that we have right now.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
And my family who was there for me and I'd
like that that we were able to get through this together.
The fact that her dad listens to that on the
word that listens to this bullsh You guys, Sorry, we cursed,
stay strong, we love you, We're thinking of you, murder, cancer,
and also anyone else who might be going through some
shit and with us in their ears.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
I bet it happens more often than not.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I guess I have to say too. We got another
email this week, and I kind of get them a
lot because I talk about depression and anxiety constantly. That
a good place to get therapy therapists referrals is Psychology Today.
They have a website that you just put in your
zip code. There's photos and descriptions and it's it's a
really great place to get referrals for yeah therapist, which.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
That's where I found mine, and that's where Georgia found hers.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
We're big on therapy. You guys take care of yourselves, yes,
for sure, Hey hi, ohh and homeep Homekeeping's.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's hard for us to be emotional, so our transition
out is not going to be as clean as you
might find on the more professional podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I'm stuttering because I was vulnerable and it makes me. Yeah,
feel awful.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
It Also, it feels weird that this we started this
thing talking to each other in your apartment, and now
we're actually connecting to real human beings.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I know, I just became real all of a sudden.
Now I'm super self conscious.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
It's very it's super weird. Yeah, it's a weird feeling.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
I know. I got a really sweet email from a
girl in LA being like, I don't know it was
to both of us. I'm sorry. I just fucking took
it over and emailed her back immediately. God damn, I'm sorry.
But she was like, I don't know what to do.
I don't know where to find a therapist. What do
I blah? And it was just like, so I felt
so good being able to that. I mean, Jesus, we're

(15:03):
all humans.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
And also just it's nice to help people.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
It is, or feel like.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
You're entertaining them or just doing anything worthwhile.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, or knowing the shit that you've gone through is
that then you're able to help other people because of
of use.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
It isn't for no reason, No, that's right, right, Yeah, guys, Oh, Homekeeping,
let's have ten minutes of silence.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Homekeeping.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Homekeeping on August twenty eighth.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Now, we're getting into live shows. That's what we're doing now,
not our own yet, but we're doing other peoples and
then we're going to slowly build into I don't know,
a world tour.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I'd like to go on a world Tourana style, Oh
for sure, Cone Bras, Cone Bras.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
And like i'd like a bus that we sleep in
that we drive around on the highways and at night.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
I don't want to do that. Can there be a
pole in it? I don't want to die that bus?

Speaker 1 (16:00):
What do you a pole?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Like a stripper pole? And like when we're having parties
and like that's what I think of Madonna and like
cute gay men on the stripper pool.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay, wait in the bus.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
But I don't want to go on the bus. Oh okay,
where do you want the pole on the bus? Yes
to the bus or no to the bus. Yes to
the bus with the pole. I'll meet you there.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
And I'll have the fun and I'll tell you what
happened on the bus.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
If we go on the bus, I'm gonna sit in
the front seats with a seatbelt on. Hey awake the
whole time.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
I have the solution you drive the bus boom.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
I'm fucking in so I will do that. I'm such
a control.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Seat driver's life. Fine, okay, let's do this thing. We
are doing so. Dan Harmon has a famous podcast you're
on Feral Audio called Harmontown, and he does live versions
of this podcast, and we're doing the next one.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
And the podcast is live always. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Oh I'm a huge fan, always have been.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's always live.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
It's Sunday nights. It's live at Meltdown. That's where they
record it.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, we're definitely editing this part out market on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Wait, do you really want to it's fun.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
I don't think he would care.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
I don't think he would care.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
On Sunday, August twenty eight, at eight o'clock at eight o'clock, right,
we're I mean yes, Now, this part could be wrong.
We're doing Harmontown, the live, the always live podcast at Meltdown. Comics.
Come down there if you want to watch and be
a part of things. I'm assuming city because that's where

(17:41):
when the most of the main shows start.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's gotta be I bet eight to ten, bet you anything.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Eight to ten. I guess I'm I'm hedging it because
it could be a seven to nine er.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
But what percentage of these people are going to come?
Because it's in La, right, I think a percentage will
point Who's who are listening?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Now?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Oh, hard to say, hard to tell?

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, I bet that.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, there might be an eccentric millionaire who's like, warm
up the jet, we're going to LA for this one.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, get the cash, the cash full of money. You
get the envelope full of cash?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Just an envelope or do you want to bring a briefcase?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
I am so hot right now. I know it's really
so hot in here that my brain is malfunctioning. It
is eight o'clock.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It's eight o'clocklocking, thank you, and it's live right, just kidding.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, if we're doing that, we're really excited. That's gonna
be fun.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
We are quite honored. I mean, Dan Harmon's a bit
of a legend.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
I mean, he's incredible. Watching him on stage, if you
haven't seen him fucking perform, he's just like he's another
He's just like transformed into this like the beast, this beast.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Anyways, it honestly sounds like they're watching stranger Things really
loud next door.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I think I was sinking that earlier because I thought
I heard the awesome theme song.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, let's watch it.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Let's listen through the walls to the whole episode. Yeah,
so you can. Great.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I think that's it for the homekeeping.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Oh te spring dot com slash my favorite murder for
your new shirt. We have our main logo on t
spring dot com right now, tell the twenty third of August,
and then we'll have other shirts. But if you want one,
go get it, and.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Then more designs will are too. Come.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, we're working on some shit, you guys, some fun stuff.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
We're working on a thing that made me at Vince's
birthday the other night at a bar when Georgia and
our friend Kat showed it to me, made me scream.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I was happy that you got so excited about it.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
It makes me very happy.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Okay, cool, I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
I think you're first this week, my first.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, all right, settle in, Karen, Okay, get ready to
hear about something we've talked about. We've touched on before, Okay,
but we never delved into. Okay, the Yosemite murders. Carrie Stainer,

(20:12):
As we know, and we've talked about Carrie Stainer. Here's
just like the beginning of the fucked up Inness. Carrie
Stayner was the big brother of Steven Stainer, who, if
you'll remember, in nineteen seventy two, was kidnapped and held
captive by a child luster named Kenneth Parnell. Carrie was

(20:34):
the older brother and he was eleven years old when
it happened. Yeah, when it happened, and Steve and the
brother was hell captive more than seven years before escaping.
That itself is a fucked up story that you guys
should look.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Up so awful. And this was one of our earliest episodes.
We were trying to remember the name of that the
made for TV movie which is called I Know my
Name is Steve Yes, And we talked about it for
way too long, and I we're still getting people that
are tweeting at us and sending us emails saying it
was called I Know my Name is Stephen. It's like
that happened six months ago.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, when when we talked about that, that was the
first time I found out that these two were brothers.
Because I knew about Carrie's murders and I knew about
Steven's kidnapping. But I didn't know they were connected, and
that just makes it it just it makes it boggles
the mind, you know, in a way that's like more
than just when you think of a serial killer and
you're like, how does your brain do that? And we

(21:27):
have this added piece of fucking childhood trauma in there.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Also, it makes me think this poor family, oh totally
is left standing. It's just like, how much can some
people take?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Those parents?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Hair Man?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, it's so much. Well so, the year after Stephen
came home, he escaped his kidnapper.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
And freed the other kids, freed a.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Little kid who had just gotten kidnapped by Kenneth Parnell, who,
by the way, is out is that represent And he
went for seven years, I believe, which is shorter than
the amount of time he kept Stephen.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
No, yep, is he still alive?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, as far as I mean. I read an article
that said he was inhumenal but I think so because.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I just read Kenneth Parnell's Wikipedia page for some weird reason,
some article brought me and then I went, wait, I
feel like I know about this guy, and then realized
it was because of Steven Stainer.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
But lieve he lives in California, like northern California.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
That's a bummer yep, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Seven years great, any who want to get more bummed out? Ready,
here we go. The following the year after Stephen came back,
I'm gonna call him Carrie, Carrie's uncle was murdered and
Carrie was living with the uncle at the time, but
no one considered a misspect, and Carrie would later claim
that his uncle molested him.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Oh no.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Cut to nineteen ninety seven, Carrie was hired as a
handyman at the Cedar Lodge motel in el Porto, just
outside of the Highway wood forty Are Rock entrance to
Yosemite National National Park, So just outside Yosemite Cedar Lodge.
The weekend before February nineteen ninety nine, he was having

(23:20):
these murderous fantasies that had become so intense that he
knew he was going to murder someone. He prepared a
murder rape kit containing a rope, a roll of duct tape,
and a serrated kitchen knife, and later a gun and
a camera and as far as we know, other besides
his uncle, which may or may not have happened this
is his first These are his first murders. Okay, So

(23:42):
on Valentine's Day nineteen ninety nine, Carol's son, who was
forty two, her daughter Julie, who was fifteen, and Sylvina Paloso,
who was sixteen, were his first victims. Carol was initially
leery of Carrie when he knocked on their cabin or
saying he had to fix a fan in the bathroom.

(24:03):
She talked him through the window and didn't want to
let him in, and only did so after he said
he'd go get the manager to like confirm it, and
she was like, no, no, no, no, no, that's okay. You
know the way people do, which.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Is when they give you the double confirmation of like, oh,
don't worry, yeah, do the thing you want me to do? Right, Well,
if you say that, then well if you say you're
going to do the thing I want you to do,
then you must be legit right then?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, oh yeah, all right, I'll do it. So but
once inside, he pulls out a twenty two caliber pistol.
He tells them he's desperate quote and orders them to
lie face down on the bed. He bounds their hands
with duct tape, gags them and then he took the
two girls into the bathroom. He strangles Carol with a
three foot piece of rope, later saying in his taped confession,

(24:50):
I didn't realize how hard it is to strangle a person.
It's not easy, but I had very little feeling. It
was like performing a task.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, keep that in mind. If it's really hard to
strangle somebody, very hard, so don't maybe don't do it.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, it's harder than one thinks. So after putting her
in the trunk of her rented Pontiac, he uh goes
back to the girls, cuts their clothes off, and then
he strangles Sylviana in the bathroom. And then he sexually
assaults Julie in the family motel room in the motel

(25:26):
room and then wraps her up and ties he ties
her to the bed. He says he felt like he
was in control for the first time in his life,
and he cleaned up the crime scene so well that
it appeared that the women had checked out and left.
When the when the people came to check and staff.

(25:46):
When the staff came later to check the see if
they were there, they had detected no foul play. Let's see.
He even wiped his hair off the bed sheets, and
then when the FBI agent asked on tape why he
did that, he replied, I watched the Discovery channel. Oh no, Hi,

(26:06):
that's all of us. Yep.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Oh yeah, everyone's getting real smart about forensy together good
and bad.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, for sure. So at four am, he takes Julie
out of the motel and drives her away in the
rental car, with her her mother and sisters and friend
in the bat in the trunk.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
So she's still alive, yes, okay, And.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I don't know. I don't think she knows that those
two are dead and in the trunk, because he kind
of there was two motel rooms that he was going between.
And I don't think she ever saw the ODI.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
She just thought she was separated.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, so she says. He says, I didn't know where
I was going or what I was doing. I just
kept driving and driving. And he said about Julie, she
was a very likable girl, he said, crying on tape.
She was very calm. So Don is approaching. He turns
off at Lake Don Pedro and carries Julie up a
dirt path to a small clearing overlooking the water. I

(27:00):
told her I wished I could keep her, he said.
Then he sexually assaulted her again. Finally he brushed her
hair and fanned it out on the ground beneath her head.
I told her I loved her, he said, And then
he slit her throat. Oh no, I didn't want her
to suffer the way the other two did too late after,
I know, like I think, because he choked them manually.

(27:22):
He was thinking that it was taking longer, so he
slid her throat, thinking he was naratively yeah, like, thinking
he was being compassionate. So he hides her body and
he drives the car with the bodies in the trunk
as far as he couldn't do the forest. Then he
takes a cab back to Yosemite, pays with the fare
with the one hundred fifty dollars she stole from Carol's purse.

(27:43):
Two days later, he returns to the car with a
can of gasoline and scratches we have Sarah on the
hood with a pocket knife, and then he lights the
car on fire. Then he drove two hours west and
dumped Carol's billfold on a modesto street to corner to
fool the police. Near where you're from.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Kind of kind of. It's the central Valley, okay, we're
more on the coast. Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
So more than a month later, the remains of Carol, Sunda,
and Palosa were found in the burned out rental car
abandoned along a logging road, and six days later the
FBI received an anonymous letter with a crudely drawn map
and a message, we had fun with this one, and
following the map, the searchers found Julie. The detectives began

(28:28):
interviewing employees of the Cedar Lodge motel, where the first
three victims had been staying just before their deaths. One
of the employees was Carrie, but he was not considered
a suspect at that point. He has no criminal history
and remained calm during the police interview. Fucking psychopath, right,
my god. FBI agents and local police rounded up a

(28:48):
bunch of meth heads and sex offenders and told the
tourists and residents that they were confident they had the
killers in custody. That okay. So another woman disappears on
July twenty second. This is Joey Ruth Armstrong Joie, who
is twenty six. She's a pretty redhead who worked for

(29:10):
the Yosemite Institute teaching children about nature. Oh sweet Angel.
She worked at the Let's see that. It was Loane
in the isolated cabin where she lived when Carrie came
upon her. Man, we can't have anything. We can't even
live alone.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Don't well. But living in a cabin alone in the woods.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, but guys can do it. What guys got to
live alone in the cabin in the woods without getting
murdered for the most part.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, and they're guys, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
It's not there.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, I know, I'm more and I'm still in the motive.
If you're going to live in a cabin in the woods,
then pull your gun out anytime someone approaches your home.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, like I don't know, or big dogs, big angry
scary dogs.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I have maga. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, no, I got it.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Don't be all chill.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, I want to live. I like living in a
big city where there's just people everywhere on top of
you all the time. So, according to the interview, Carrie
confronted Armstrong a gunpoint on the front porch of her cabin.
Oh he had a gun, yeah, He told her it
was a robbery and forced her into the cabin and

(30:19):
covered her mouth and bound her hands behind her back
with duct tape. Then he put her in his sports
utility vehicle SUV. I could have just thank you. Someone
needed a extra word count in their newspaper piece, right,
did you also draw a picture? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Piece five is just one big one.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well, like copied a couple of these sentences and that
was one of them. And now I'm like that guy
just needed a higher word count. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah,
he said, I lost control of myself and I lost
control of her. Let's see, he said, when this started out,
I had no intention of cutting her head off, which
he later did. Spoiler alert man, he says he has

(30:57):
no intention of cutting her head off. I had no
intent just killing her even the first time I saw her. Yeah,
right then I started thinking about it. It was in
the house. There was nobody in the house with her,
and she kept walking out by herself, and she watered
the plants, and it was obvious she was taking off
and getting ready to go. That's when I started talking
to her. So the assistant used attorney then Okay. In

(31:22):
court papers, it was said after he had driven a
short distance, she drove head first out through the window
out of the moving truck, and still bound with duct tape,
ran through the woods toward the nearby community of Fista
to get help. Hell yeah, girl, good for you fight
your fucking last fight. Yeah, you know, I don't know
if that was the right thing. Well, Carrie ultimately subdued Armstrong.

(31:46):
She fought so crazy and with such passion that Stainer
wasn't able to do his normal cleanup job. Like obsessive
cleanup job, he disposed of her beheaded body near in
a nearby stream, and the head turned up twenty seven
feet away in a hurry. He fleed, and a close
he fled. He fleed, No, he fleed, Karen, don't fucking correct,

(32:10):
count he fleed, sorry to correct. You know you're right,
he fled a close. A source close to the investigation,
Oh my god, I think you were pointing that out. No,
I did not catch that, says It was a fight
from start to finish. She tried to get away, and
she almost did get away, and those several minutes of
struggle left behind a lot of evidence. Her determined fight

(32:32):
for life denied him the chance to cover up the
crime scene, and it led to his capture and undoubtedly
saved other lives.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yes, she basically ended it yep by fighting.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Fuck and fought so hard that he lost it. And
like so, in his haste he left behind footprints and
basically his car was seen around the area. It was
really distinctive the tire tracks as were as well as
were as well, and so the vehicle was traced to
him and he was arrested and during his interrogation he

(33:04):
confessed to all four murders. He pled not guilty by
reason of insanity, and a doctor testified that he had
mild autism, obsessive compulsive disorder, and paraphilia. At one point
during the trial, the judge, Thomas C. Hastings, had to
leave the courtroom so he could compose himself in private

(33:25):
because the testimony was so fucked up. He returned several
minutes later, red faced and misty eyed. A judge. The
circumstances of this case are horrendous and devastating, he said,
before announcing the sentence. Carrie was found sane and convicted
of four counts of first to be murder by a
jury in two thousand and one. He was sentenced to

(33:45):
death and is still in San Quentin. He claimed after
his arrest. So everyone's like, did you get these murderous
tendencies because of the stuff with your brother and all
this horrible stuff that happened as a kid. But he
after his arrested, he had fantasized about murder and women
since he was seven years old, long before the abduction

(34:06):
of his brother. Who so, what are the chances like
those two traumatic fucks up things are going to happen
in one family?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
So awful?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Okay? And then I went on Facebook and found a
hometown murder from a reader, so I'm going to read it, okay.
So Taylor C. Says, in June of nineteen ninety nine,
I was eleven and my brother was eight. My family
and I went on a road trip to Yosemite from
LA and all Caps stayed in the Cedar Lodge motel.

(34:35):
This is for everyone. This is right between the murder
of the three women and the murder of a single woman,
like months before, like months in between. Oh Man, Around
nine thirty at night, my brother and I were watching
Batman and Robin and we get a knock at the door.
My mom looks through the people, sees some dude and
asks what he wants. He says, pizza delivery. We had

(34:56):
already eaten, so we knew no one had ordered a pizza.
My mom tells him as much, and he insists that
we did. My mom tells him that he must have
been mistaken, but he keeps insisting. After a certain point,
my mom walks away and assumes he did as well.
Several minutes of knocking later, my mom calls the hotel management.
He must have heard her on the phone because when
they showed when they showed up, he was gone. My

(35:18):
mom filed a police report, but nothing really ever came
of it. When I think when they caught him, she
was briefly interviewed, but because she didn't get a good
look at him, she wasn't useful in the case. To think,
my brother and I could have died while watching Arnold
laying down some truly excellent ice puns because they were
watching Where'd It Go? Batman? And Robin Oh fucked up? Shit?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Did she say it was just her mom? It was
her brother and her mom.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Her and her brother and her mom.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
So like he spotted like moms with kids.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, he must have targeted them, man, But why would
you do it again? And the same I mean I
guess you didn't get caught at first.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, you didn't get caught in your cocky And he
has still has the fantasy, like he still has it's
the compulsion.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
And then there's sometimes that thing of like maybe you
wanted to get caught.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yes, Well, it surprised me when you said that he
cried when he was talking about the first girl.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, when that when during the trial, when a lot
of the stuff is being discord when he was listening
to his own testimony, he would he would plug up
his ears and cry like he couldn't listen to it,
even though when he was giving that information during the interrogation,
he was like like dead, you know, emotionally dead.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
So either that was just for the just for the
show for the jury, Oh that's true, or you know,
maybe he was on anti psychotics or something at that
point and understood.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Or if he was like yeah, he was like, hadn't
processed anything, yeah he was confessing.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah wow, Or hadn't been meeting with therapists or something
at that point and kind of.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I mean, but to have the urge to kill like that,
I think does put you in like the in the
psychopathic area.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I can't imagine like just it's like and since he
was seven, that's yeah, I must have had some fuck
that things happened to him way early on.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
And did they ever do you know if they've ever
connected him to the Uncle's market.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
There's like not a lot of recent articles. It's like
they're looking into it stuff and trying to piece together
like other murders in the area, see if he's got
any link to them, but it doesn't really look like it.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Plus if he confessed to all of those, like why
wouldn't he confess to more of them? But who knows?

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Oh and then did you know that the brother, Steven
Stannard died when he was twenty four and in motors
I know, man, that's a rough life.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, that's just it's nothing but awfulness.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, the rest of that family.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Didn't he die in the motorcycle accident like relatively soon
after he came back.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
He died when he was twenty four. Oh okay, So
I think he came back in his teens, right, Yeah,
I maybe fifteen? Oh okay, I think so. Yeah. That's
deep and dark. Well I hope yours is happy and fun.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Mine is so fun Nor kind of is it's not
as dark. I do love that. I mean, I do
love the Stainer story, though it's just the heaviest of anything.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Well, I remember when I was what year was that.
I just remember nineteen ninety nine, so I was like
I was nineteen or twenty, like living in Orange County,
which isn't far from Yosemite, like two three hours, And
I remember hearing both of those and they got him
pretty quickly after the second. The girl was beheaded, but
it was just so and they have photos of her

(38:50):
up and she's just this like hippie sweetheart, and you know,
I felt so bad for the girl who was with
them and sister her family.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
On vacation with her friends.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, yeah, I felt you know, I'm sure there's like
part of that family that blame. There's like guilt and
blame and so much, so much shit besides just having
someone that you love die.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
That was the first thing that I thought of when
I heard that story when it originally had was that's
the worst scenario, was like being on vacation, something happens
to your kid when they're on vacation with their friends
and they're in their teens and You're like, kid, you're.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Trying to like be cool and let them go and
live their life and give them some freedom and you know,
against better judgment, maybe letting them go camping.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, nope, boo, all right, are you ready to transition?

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Always?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Because mine? I actually I was watching this documentary this
weekend about this guy that I'm going to talk about,
and it's very entertaining. Even though he is also a murderer,
he is more a con man, which I actually kind
of adore.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Like a mobster who won't kill women and children. Yes,
And you're like, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
What, you know when you can like pick and choose
the bad, like this is the kind that I like.
Where for the most part now he is a borderline personality,
I think, extreme narcissist. They have all kinds of you know,
the psychiatrist talked about what he was in court, but
he basically what it was. He was a guy who

(40:33):
grew up in Germany as a very awkward teen. In
this documentary they talk about how he when all their
friends would go to like to the lake every summer,
he would always go, but he would be fully dressed
up and he would never They never saw him in
a bathing suit, Christis Hitler. That man's name was mister

(40:55):
Adolph Marie Hitler.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
No, this was.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Well, he was born Christian Carl Gerhartschweiter, but he had
many names in his long con career. He also went
by the name Chris Chichester, Chris Crow, Chip Smith, and
finally Clark Rockefeller, heir to the Rockefeller You know this guy, Clark,

(41:27):
it's called my friend Rockefeller.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yeah, I never got through it, so tell me everything.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
It is here. It's worth getting to the part where
Clark Rockefeller or Chris Chichester or Chip Smith or Chris
Crowe is my favorite because he when he was Chris Crow,
he claimed to be a relative of Cameron Crow. He
he does all these lies that are just small enough.

(41:52):
They're big enough to impress you, but small enough to
be believable, right, And it is masterful, and he's a
really legitimately IQ style intelligent person. But he also doesn't
really have any morals, so most of the time everything's
fine because he's just trying to get money and like
work for himself and get what he wants.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
But fair enough, and doesn't he make like everyone happy
around him too? Like everyone thinks he's so funny for
a little while.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, I think the limits two years that people are
happy around this guy. Then he starts getting real irritating
and that's when he gets kicked out of houses, fired
from jobs, what have you. But so this is basically
how it goes. He grows up as an awkward teen
in Germany. He has a group of friends and in
the documentary, the friends get interviewed and what I loved

(42:41):
is one of the friends goes, I love that he
tricked all those rich Americans, and that part made me go, oh, yeah,
that's true. He really did get away with huge, huge
lies for a really long time.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
So here's basically how it went. He also claimed to be.
These are all the things he claimed to be. A producer,
a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain,
a negotiator of international debt agreements, and an English aristocrat.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
She was he did it all.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
So when he was seventeen, he met an American couple
who had pulled off and asked him for directions on
the side of the road, and he met them, got
their names, and then when he wanted to go to
America when he was seventeen, he used their names on
the entrance documents to say that they had invited him

(43:33):
there and he was going to go live with them.
This was a one off meeting on the side of
the road, and those people are also in this documentary.
That's pretty awesome. So he comes to the United States
and he goes to Meriden, Connecticut, and he finds the
family of a backpacker he met once on a train
in Germany.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I can't even talk to the person sitting next to
me on an airplane.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
I have a hard time talking to people I've known
for twenty years. Yeah, much less asking people if you
can go stay at their parents' house.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Oh my god, I asked n if I can like
eat some of his ships, because I feel bad about it.
I can't imagine me like, can I stay at your place?
We met once and.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Just a weird and uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
So he explains to them that he is from a
very wealthy German family and that he is in America,
like he's a foreign exchange student, and can he stay
with them because he's going to be going to the
local high school.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
They're totally listening.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
They're stranger, stranger things.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Our my neighbors sounds them. What are the chances that's insane? Also,
people can't hear it.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
No, that's good. Oh shit, I'm sorry. If only we
could lay in those cues. It's like it was like
a radio show.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
And really we were just in like in a in
a fucking bunker, and where are we in Germany? Germany?

Speaker 1 (44:56):
So sorry, no, it's o good. Soasically, he starts going
into high school in Connecticut, and basically his whole thing
is he wants to be American, he wants to blend in.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
He becomes obsessed with Gilligan's Island.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And he starts talking like Thurston Helpafel And when he
appears in this documentary, that's who he's talking like. And
it wasn't until I was reading this article where they
mentioned this specifically where I started laughing, because they.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Don't talk about in the documentary.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
He does talk about it, but they talk about it
like it's an inside He goes. The guy who makes
a documentary who was friends with him, brings it up,
but they don't like Babe Clark Rockfeller like kind of
brushes it.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Off, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but he totally
sounds like him.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
But he's talking like, God, that's perfect, and he's basically
saying it's the funniest. But also it's that thing where
I don't like to Usually I don't like to listen
to killers, especially I never watch anything where the serial
killers talk. I don't give a fuck what that guy
has to say. He's evil. This guy's different though, because

(46:05):
he's a con man first and foremost. Even though yes,
he's a bad person, killer, all of that, but he
is a fascinating mind because he was smart enough to, like,
as a teen, can all these people. So he goes
he goes to this high school. He decides that he

(46:28):
wants to be an actor, so he heads west, but
he makes it as far as Wisconsin, and he decides
he's going to go to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.
So once he's there, he decides he needs to he's
been in the United States long enough where he needs
a green card. Basically he's become a citizen. So he

(46:49):
decides he's going to marry a local twenty two year
old woman and who he explains to her that he
needs the green card because if he gets sent back
to Germany, he will have to fight in the Cold
War on the Russian Front. Now, if you knew anything
about anything, I mean, and I barely know anything about anything.

(47:12):
But when I read that, I was like, hey, wait
a second, pretty sure the Cold War didn't have a
front because the Cold War was all about tensions and
basically threats.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
There's no such thing as there was.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
No Russian Front in the Cold War. I mean, there
were places to go, there were bad things happening, definitely.
If the idea was that he was going to get
sent back to like East Berlin and have to spy
on his neighbors, yes, horrible. But there was no Russian Front.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Prisoner of war because of or not a prisoner of
war of accused of war crimes and something.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Like a political person. Ye, but there was no The
Russian Front was from World War Two. That was a bad,
bad place to be sure. Anyway, she fell for it
and married him, and the next day he left for California.
So I was like, was she was? She in agreement

(48:03):
and fine with it? But then later I read that
she filed for divorce in nineteen ninety two, eleven years later.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Maybe she was like needed him, Maybe she's like a
lesbian and liked her fan her story. Yeah, oh, I.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Didn't even think about that. I was I immediately wrote
the story. If she was just heartbroken and like pining
in Milwaukee, oh for this fabulous European that bailed on
her the day after because it said their wedding, So
it sounded like it wasn't just the basics, like city,
I'll sign some papers like they had a wedding. Oh no, sad,

(48:41):
a little crazy, all right. So he or maybe she
is like me and is just bad about paperwork and
doesn't get shit done in time. So she's like, oh,
that's right, I have.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
To get the Yeah, i'll do it. When I meet
someone else, I'll.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Do And I have a good reason that she's on
tender swiping swiping.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Swipe, come on.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
So he heads out to California. Now this is it's
so fascinating. He goes to San Marino. Now, I don't
know if you've ever been to Huntington Gardens. Oh, you're
from down here.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
San Marino is like so, Pasadena is a rich area
that very few people I know live in because it's
like old money rich. You know, you have to live
out of the city. San Marino is richer than Pasadena. Yeah,
it's the it's the city nestled up right next to
Pasadena where all the mansions aren't gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
There's like all the streets are like wide, and you're
legally not allowed to park on the street. So when
people are parked on the street, the cops know that's
someone that doesn't belong here.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
No, yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Yeah, you don't see cars on those streets in San
Marino because everyone can park in their own driveway. But
also you legally can't, fuck you, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Because they don't want their fucking housekeepers and shit parking there.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Well, I bet the housekeepers are a part of the family, okay,
but no, they definitely don't want any of the others,
any other.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Anyone from outside.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, god forbid. You're just like you're just from like Lakeiyata,
and you're just John party and chew your gum and
smoke your cigarettes. Yah, and park on the street in
San Marino, doing San Marino. Don't you do it? They
don't want you there. So this is a guy who's
in his early twenties, like college age. He's moving to
La to be an actor, and he moves to San

(50:27):
Marino to get so it doesn't make sense San Marino.
I looked it up. It's it was rated more expensive
than Beverly Hills and Malibu to live in, So it
just is nonsensical for like a young actor type to
live there.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Sure, but that's that's.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
What he was about. He was like a total He
was thirst and tow the third and he was trying
to go become that person in like a very real way.
So he got he rented the guest house that was
in one of the least nice houses in all of
San Marino. There was there is actually a slightly shabby
part which is just basically not million dollar homes, and

(51:10):
in one of those houses, a woman named Dede Sohus
had a guest house uh on her property. Dede reportedly
was an alcoholic who was always dressed in a housecoat,
which sounds like hey, sister high five. And Dedey had

(51:30):
a son named John who was five foot five, super
into dungeons and dragons, coke bottle glasses, and was married
to a woman named Linda who was six a six
foot tall redhead.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
You sound like fucking our type of people. They are.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
They are our type of people. They lived in like
the house adjacent, so it was almost like this little
compound and Clark Rockfeller. At the time, his name was
let's see his name here was Christopher Chichester, which is
the dumbest made up name of all time.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Chichester. That sounds like when I said, what was it,
Nancy Saint Nancy, Nancy Saint Stacy's that wasn't as bad
as Chichester.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
That's not as bad as Chris Chichester.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, just's you stuttered three times?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, throw more season there, you dork. So okay. So
he shows up in San Marino. He gets he's he's
he's charming everybody, and what he tells them is that
not only is he a computer expert, a film producer,
and a stockbroker, he's also the nephew of Lord mount Batten.
So what I kind of do like about this all

(52:38):
is all the people that get tricked by this guy
are people who are label horrors and status horores. So
anyone that's like impressed by impressed by someone talking like
Thurston Hall the Third and saying I'm I'm related to
Lord Lord mount Batten. Yeah, where like in my family,
if you said that, it'd be like, well, go do

(52:59):
the dishes. It'd be like, really, Lord mount Batten, can
you go get some more beer out of the downstairs refrigerator?

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Right?

Speaker 1 (53:06):
But it's the it's a lot of people, and especially
that's why he was going to places like San Marino.
You go to places where people work in those worlds,
and those are the people that are most impressed by
you know, you're all rich, Well I'm a blue blood.
Well i'm a royal. I'm actually royalty.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
This someone that can come in and beat them at
their own game. What's more interesting than that? So the
local said he was a whiz at everything. He proved
especially popular with the women, who were very charmed by
his royal bloodline and his courtly manners. One of the
women said he knew everything about everything and he was
just fabulous. So it's not just an act. He's really

(53:46):
getting away with it and he was very very smart.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Sounds like it.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
So. So in nineteen eighty five, tragedy strikes. This is
two years after Chris moves into this so Hus the
so HUSS's you know house, Dede's son Jonathan and his
wife Linda go missing without a trace. Chris tells everybody

(54:11):
that they told him that they were going to go
to Europe. The family got a postcard from France, supposedly
from the couple after the disappearance, but its authenticity has
been questioned. And so soon after they disappear, Dede so
Haus disinherited her son, who was beloved to her up

(54:33):
until that point. The police think that she was convinced
that he had abandoned her, and after when Dede died,
they found that one hundred and eighty thousand dollars of
her estate had been looted. Her entire state, sorry, her
entire state was worth one hundred and eighty thousand dollars
and all of it had been.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Taken as so sad so Dungeons and dragons.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Dungeons and dragons.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
In the life.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
I I say that like it's I mean something by it.
I digeons and dragons, but we know what we mean.
In the late eighties, police pull Christopher Chichester over in Greenwich, Connecticut.
He's driving Jonathan Sohuss his truck. Uh oh the police.

(55:21):
He leaves the area before police can interview him. I
don't know what that means. If he's like, oh, well,
thanks every that is, thanks for pulling me over. Great
to see you and just drives away. I'm not sure
or if they meant to the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Sounds like the neighborhood, right.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
It's just weird because if you've got him there and
he's driving, So maybe they just had the information that
it was that truck and they didn't put it together
till later. Yeah, but I looked it up. Greenwich. In
the year two thousand, Greenwich was the third wealthiest town
in Connecticut. So he's just going east coast. Now, he's
going to do this on the east coast, take money. Yeah,

(55:57):
So he rents a post office box in Greenwich under
the name Christopher she C Crow CCC. He loves the sea.
He literally walked into the Indian Harbor Yacht Club like
he owned the place. So there, this is a rich
town that has a yacht club and he rolled up
on in. Here's how he was described. He looked like

(56:20):
he walked out of a magazine. He always had his
burbery winter coat, burbery umbrella, very fine cotton, buttoned down
white shirts with CCC monogrammed on the pockets for Christopher
Chichester Crow. Always pristine, always perfect.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Sounds like what you wear whenever you go out. Yep.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I do have my button down, k LK shirt on
so hot? Someone else said, he's talking to you as
if he's smarter, wealthier, more connected, more everything than you,
no matter who you are. So he's he's just playing
the rich game and beating them at the rich game.

(57:00):
Because I think Thurston how the Third was the richest
man on the planet. So if that's who he is,
he is right. So he sleeps with the woman he
so that basically his in and in Greenwich was this
yacht clubs. He starts sleeping with a woman who ends
up getting him this really high level job in town

(57:22):
at a broker dealer firm. I don't know what that is.
I cut my eyes were skipping over the part where
it got into like finance, but basically a huge finance job.
You have to take two tests to do this job.
One called the series seven and one calls the A
series sixty three. There's seven it's seven hours of question

(57:45):
and he passed it.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
What the shit?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
So he's not he's a very very very intelligent person.
So now you know the brain that's being applied to
conning people. A memorizer, an absorber of personalities and information.
I'm the kind of person that will tell you the
perfect lie. He's Lord mount Batten's nephew. He's not anybody's son.

(58:08):
There's nothing direct, so all right, so's he stays at
this job for two years, but he's super. People don't
at first it's interesting that they have this royalty working there.
After two years, they're sick of hearing him talk. And
he did the ultimate wrong move, which was the boss,

(58:32):
the guy that hired him, who was the president of
the company, wanted to access his own computer and Chris
wouldn't tell him how to do it because he thought,
if I'm the only one that knows how to do
it and you don't know, I will never get fired. Instead,
the guy in charge was like, get the fuck out
of here, and somebody else is going to teach me
how to get into my computer.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Weird.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Well, from there he gets a better job, so he
gets fired from that job, and then he gets hired
at a place is called Nico. I don't know, it's
another one of these like Wall Street jobs.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yeah, Karen, this is not our universe.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I'm not interested in it. I don't like it. No,
I don't care. But essentially he does great there too.
For a couple of years, but he a couple people
were onto him. This is all in the documentary because
he would ask he'd ask a question like, do you
have you ever sold one of these? And the guy
that he asked the question to is in the documentary,

(59:28):
Who's like, that'd be like asking a dentist, do you
know what a bicusp it is, like, it's one of
the basics. So that guy was like, I was pretty
sure something was going on. And then of course by
the end everyone's just he's bragging and he's, you know,
an asshole to everybody. So he gets fired from there.
Then he goes to another company, a bigger company, so

(59:52):
he gets a better job. Each firing he just is
failing upwards. But this is the job where they finally
do a background check. Oh no, sorry, Two years after
he got dismissed from the first place, they finally look
him up. They'd run his social Security number, and the
social security number that he gave was David Berkowitz's, the

(01:00:15):
son of Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
That is the coolest part.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
It's amazing. So it's kind of like saying, if you
check my shit, go fuck yourself, But no one ever
did until after he left.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
It's crazy. So in this third the third job, someone
at the third job finally looks into his background while
he still works there and finds out that he is
a person of interest in a missing person's case in California.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
How did that guy feel and he saw that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
I mean probably nervous but stoked. Yeah, excited and then
hungry because it was right before who knows. So the
Greenwich Police and the Connecticut State Police show up at
this job with that day Christopher Chichester. No, sorry, Christopher
crow Now, Christopher Crowe didn't show up for work that

(01:01:09):
day because he was onto them. He knew, but he
called in to say he needed time off because his
parents had been kidnapped in either Pakistan or Japan.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
But just say you don't feel well well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
And also that's where your lies are getting a bit big. Yeah,
like it picked one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah it's Pakistan. Yeah, but you have a hangover.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, or you're yeah, you you broke one of your
teeth and you're out for a couple of days.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
You're at your bye husband.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
So he disappears from Greenwich, Connecticut, and he reappears in
New York City nineteen ninety two, and where does he go?
Where did John List go when he had to start
all over in a new town.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
The church, church, church, church, you show stay with me church, church,
you show up at church wow with your song and dance,
and you have a bill in community of people who
are going.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
To trust you. Totally keep your eyes peeled. Churches. So
he rolls up this is now when he is because
I say that as if that's something that's important. This
is now when he's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in
New York City and he's introducing himself as a Rockefeller.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
That seems like something you'd want to introduce yourself anywhere,
but in New York City.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Well, but here's the thing. He knows the difference. So
he specifies to these people at this church that he
is from the Percy Rockefeller side, not John D. John
D is the one. He's crazy rich. Percy still is
super rich, but not John D level. So he he
always goes right under, you know, he goes in with

(01:02:49):
the claim, that's right, believable enough. Yeah, we're still talking
millions of dollars, crazy old American blue blood money.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
It's still what impressed people like my mom oh, he's
a Rockefeller.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
My grandmother used to say, like she'd go pick that
penny up off the floor. Were not the rock of
fellows totally. That was like a total grandma saying Yeah.
She also said a lot of racist stuff that I
won't repeat, so don't listen to her. She was a
good person at heart. Their times make America great again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
All right? Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
He claimed to have gone to Yale, like when he
was fourteen, he had a Yale scarf with the blue stripes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
He said he had one of the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
J boats from his grandparents, which was a classic thirties
sailing yacht. Yeah I do too, Yeah, don't we all?
So basically what he learned is that if you joined
private clubs in a big city and they're all like clubs,
no one's ever even heard of the lotos and stuff

(01:03:52):
like that, where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm clearly as
working class as you can get. We'll never be no, no,
we're closes. We'll never be asked to No, they're not
going to ask us. I don't think so. But this
is where the Vanderbilts and the Whitneys and the Roosevelts
and the Rockefellers, they've all been socializing since the eighteen hundreds.
So he learns the kind of language of private clubs

(01:04:13):
and those people, and then all of his lives become
believable because he's speaking their language, saying the stupid ship
that they all say to each other over cucumber sandwiches.
What it's all whispering about cash transactions.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Yeahs bons, bonds, war bondslio, Polio polo, they met polio.
I've you met the disease because Roosevelt.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Yeah, you got to talk about it. So, oh, sorry,
I lost my place and I'm hallucinating from the heat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
I'm I'm sorry. No, it'sn't here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
There's nothing you can do. So oh, I was on
the totally wrong page. I tried to do that scrolling
thing that I do, all right, So.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
So he married in nineteen ninety five. He marries a
woman that he met through Saint Thomas Church, this church
that he went to, and she was a Harvard MBA
who rose to be one of the youngest partners in
history at Mackenzie I don't know what that is, law firm.
Probably she had a two million dollar salary. She was
like a legendary business woman.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Fuck man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
He meets her church, they hit it off, and they
get married.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
He has a way with the ladies. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
He explains to her that none of his family is
going to be at the wedding because there had been
an argument and he had disinvited all of them, So
he has no family there her flag, but he marries
into her family and they have a child named Ray,
which I actually liked that name for a girl, Ray
ri E. I g H, that's cute. He nicknamed her

(01:06:06):
snooks Knucks, which may have been something thirst in how
the third called his wife snucks. Yeah, he'd insisted on
raising her and educating her himself. I would love to
meet and talk to her.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Oh my god, she's the coolest.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
So anyway, they ultimately get divorced and she, the wife,
has to pay him eight hundred thousand dollars in alimony
and he won the white the but she sorry, she
won the right to raise Ray till in London. So

(01:06:45):
in two thousand and eight, a court supervised visit in Boston,
Rockefeller kidnaps Ray, so she's seven years old. There he's
meeting up with Ray and the court appointed like social
work basically, and he runs up, pushes that woman over
grabs the little girl and jumps into a car, and

(01:07:09):
the social worker actually ran after and grabbed onto the
back bumper of the car for like a little bit,
trying to do something about it. God, but don't worry.
He was He lived for this little girl. He just
wanted her in his life. He wasn't gonna harm her
in anyway. I know that everyone in this documentary says

(01:07:30):
it like that. He would never He worshiped her and
she was everything and they and he got caught two
weeks later. Okay, so, but there was he he had
set up a new identity in Baltimore. That's where he
was going to become Chip Smith, a professional yacht captain
and catamaran designer. But he got caught immediately. He was.

(01:07:57):
In two thousand and nine, he was convicted and sentenced
to four to five years for abducting his daughter and
two to three years for the assaults on the social
worker who did get injured by that suv that he
had waiting. But we'll circle back around now, because in
nineteen ninety four, the new owners of the so HUSS's

(01:08:23):
house in San Marino were digging to build a new
pool and they found two bodies, deep deep underneath the
ground in the backyard at the Sohuss's house, and it
was the family members said the bones matched Jonathan so
HUSS's general description, but he was adopted, so they couldn't

(01:08:46):
do a family DNA match.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
So she adopts this kid, and he's this like great
nerd and she loves him so much, but she's kind
of a boozer. And then he takes he.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Finds love in a six foot redhead and they were
kind of this mismatched couple that are making it happen,
and then.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
She thinks he just leaves her. Yes, Oh, that's the
saddest thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
So the forensic evidence showed that the victim, who is Jonathan,
had been struck in the head two times with a
rounded blunt object, then stabbed six times. His body had
been cut into three parts, and the body parts had
been put into book bags from the University of Wisconsin
and from USC where Chris Clark all these people he

(01:09:43):
had actually sat in on film classes, never registered as
a student, but he used to go to USC and
go to classes. He just wasn't actually a student. And
so that circumstantial evidence, combined with the fact that he
was arrested driving Jonathan's truck in Greenwich basically convicted him
of murder. Sorry, there was only one body buried in

(01:10:07):
the backyard. They never found Linda. Linda, what do you
think she is? Well, the police suspect that Clark had
an affair with Linda. Oh no, because basically Clark thought
he was in with Dedie and thought that he was
going to get her money and get the house and
be in San Marino and like have his life. Yeah,

(01:10:29):
and then Jonathan and Linda were basically what we're standing
in the way of that. Yeah, And I think and
he thought, you know, I'll get this is just this crazy,
old drunk lady. I'm going to get her to sign
everything over to me and then I'm going to have
the life I want. And then Linda and Jonathan are
just like, you need to move out of here. And
basically that's where it started. So he The theory is

(01:10:52):
that he tried to break them up as a couple
and then he murdered Jonathan.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
So Linda might be out in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
They think she's dead.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Yeah, she's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah. They just think that he brought the body somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
That's so sad, I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yeah, he was charged with Jonathan's murder uh. Any and
the trial was in April twenty thirteen, and he was
convicted of first degree murder.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
And he's now in some weird jail and Ironwood Jail
in blythe California.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Wow. Can I see a photo of him?

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
I want to see him like a mug shot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
It's so funny because when they talk about like that
he's good looking and stuff, or that he had away
with the ladies.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Nope, well let's see was he hot?

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
I mean to each his own.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Oh my god, he's like a NERD's well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
And also when you see him talking, it's even worse.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
He's got no mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Because her little dogs like this. It's like somebody in
a bad like mustard commercial where you're like, what why
would you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Talk like that? He looks like he is a character
in the Simpsons. Yeah, like, oh no, where's his mouth?

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
He's just kind of you know, I'm sure he was
insecure as a teen, sure, and all of that plus
being really smart, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Yeah, just made up for I don't see him being
a ladies man, but good for him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
It's all in the brains, brains, brains, brains, brains, brands, brains.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Well, that's fucking sad. Yeah, but it's playful. It's not
as dark.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
But then it kind of is. Actually he like went
and had you know, the crazy rich man's life, and
it actually worked for a little while.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
But let's take a cue from him and start living
our lives. Oh not lies, no more lies, no more lies,
no more drama. Let's be as confident as him, okay,
and as a nerdy as the guy he killed, and

(01:12:55):
and as rich as someone who lives in San Marino.
That's that, I like, I would love to live in
San Marino, don't you. Well, yeah, I think a nice house.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
I mean, you need to be constantly making money so
you could just pay those property taxes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Sounds so exhausted. They have to work at like a
hedge fun thing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Yeah, then you have to be the kind of person
that's like, I need the better I need. The Louis
Vitan version.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Of this, it's not worth. You have to spend all
that stupid money and make people think you're rich to
make money and get rich.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
It's dumb. I'm good, yes, No, I'm fine, I'm lazy.
I'm not interested in most of that stuff anyway. I
just I just want the relief of not having debt. Yeah,
but being rich I don't think really adds up to
what I don't think it fills the hole that people
are so convinced. Yeah, it's going.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
To give I want enough money that I don't have
to wonder where my next money is coming from. Yeah,
and you know, maybe in five years, but not really. Yeah,
but how much is that? I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Well. And also you know, I heard from the great
Jerry Seinfeld himself who said that he heard money, that
there was some study that they did. Money doesn't make
you happy. Money never makes people happy. It's human connection
that makes people happy, which I found very powerful coming
from the richest man on the face of the earth,

(01:14:23):
where obviously I was like, yeah, this must be you
must have had some stake in this, because what you're
saying to me right now is that that your money
doesn't make you that happy. Yeah, so you're looking trying
to find out what does, and it's human connection.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah. I also heard that like there's if people are
happy at a certain amount of money, and then anything
over that that decreases your happiness decreases.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
How many lottery winners go buck wild, bananas crazy totally
and just want ever come back. One point five million
is all I need?

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Is that all you need?

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Yeah, it's not a lot it's really not today's standards.
No really, it's you can't buy a house.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
For that a Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
It's not enough. No, you can't live here with them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Fuck okay, I want more than that. Then kick it up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Let's take it up to the six seven area.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Well, when that rich person gets a jet and comes
to show it, see us a harmontown, they can till
it is money full of envelope.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
I was I was hoping it would be John Travolta
flying in from Florida. That's what I pictured in my mind.
That's where he has his house with the airplane hangar
right outside. Damn you've seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah, cool, anything else? I have a hometown murder, but
it's kind of depressing too, so I don't know if
maybe it'll be just like not worth it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
You did, didn't you do a hometown murder at the
end of yours?

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
I did?

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, I forget it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Yeah, and it and it perfectly laid right in it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Didn't it? Where its Elvis came out right when you
were ending.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Because you know you. We should thank Steven.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
See our beautiful engineer who gave us microphones.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Yeah, beutiful. Thank you and you've been killing it. Thank
you for your help. Elvis is sitting there waiting.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Elvis is your big chance?

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Can we try and do this? Can we do it before?

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
Or after?

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
We say, Elvis, you want to cookie? Do you want
a cookie? Wants your microphone?

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
We usually do it after because stay sexy, don't get murdered.