[136] - Dr. Martin Moore-Ede - How bad is Blue Light exposure at night? The benefits of Circadian Lighting - A Healthy Shift

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now those LEDs applied them into light fixtures
for control rooms.
We installed about 65 controlrooms around or over North
America and in some in Europeand we were able to show big
improvements in sleep, inpeople's performance, in their
well-being.
We showed gastrointestinaldisorders were reduced.

(00:20):
We showed people were usingless over-the-counter
medications Very interestingfinding because they weren't
trying to self-medicatethemselves to cope with the
feeling of fatigue and malaiseof shift work.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to
be.
Welcome to a healthy Shift.
My name is Roger Sutherland,certified Nutritionist, veteran
Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7Shift Worker for almost four
decades.
Through this podcast, I aim toeducate shift workers, using
evidence-based methods, to notonly survive the rigours of

(00:59):
shift work but thrive.
My goal is to empower shiftworkers to improve their health
and wellbeing so they have moreenergy to do the things they
love.
Enjoy today's show.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of a Healthy Shift
Podcast your podcast, ourpodcast, the podcast where I

(01:20):
assist you with evidence-basedstrategies in your shift working
life.
Today, I am absolutely thrilledto have Dr Martin Moore-Ede,
known as the Light Doctor, onthe podcast.
Now.
Dr Martin Moore-Ede is asignificant leader in circadian
lighting today.
For over 40 years, dr MartinMoore-Ede has been a leading

(01:43):
expert on circadian clocks andtheir regulation by light.
This is really, reallysignificant for us as a shift
worker.
He's a professor at the HarvardMedical School from 75 to 98
and led the team that locatedthe suprachiasmatic nucleus,
which is the biological clock inthe human brain that controls

(02:05):
the timing of sleep and wake.
Now he's the founder and CEO ofa global consulting firm named
Circadian and pioneeredtechnologies to help people
safely adapt to working aroundthe clock.
He is a world leader in thisand that's why I'm so humbled to
have him on the show.
Dr Martin Moreed has released anumber of books and his latest

(02:28):
book, the Light Doctor, isunbelievable.
I highly recommend thateveryone gets a copy of the book
and has a read of it.
It's currently on Substack.
You will hear during thepodcast today that Dr Martin
Moreed is releasing the book asa paperback or a hard copy and
that will be released, hopefully, in the next few months.

(02:48):
Let's just get on with the show, because it's just a
fascinating chat, this one and Ihad so many brain explosions in
this.
I've listened to Dr MartinMoreed on a number of other
podcasts and I highly recommendyou do the same, because there's
something that comes out ofeach one.
But let's just say this you'regoing to absolutely love it.
Dr Martin Moore-Ede, welcome tothe show.

(03:08):
How are you today?
I'm good, good to meet you,Roger.
I'm deeply honored to have youon our show here today.
Because of your work and whatyou do, I think it's really,
really important moving forwardfor the health and well-being of
our shift working community.
So could you do us a favor andjust tell us basically a bit

(03:34):
about yourself and what youractual background is.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Well, I got into shift work essentially through
medicine.
I was trained in England as inmy medical degrees and then
headed over to North America todo my surgical residency and I
did the first year of that andthere I found myself working a
pretty extreme form of shiftwork 36 hours on 12 hours off,
36 on 12 hours off, about 108hours a week.

(03:58):
Classic at that time and stillis to some some extent for
people in residency programs.
Walking around like a zombie,obviously nodding off in the
operating room, having thesurgeon yell at me writing
prescriptions, I couldn't makesense of the next day.
You know it was not just me, itwas everybody.
And of course the whole fatigue.

(04:19):
You know I have my first well,only actually drift off the road
accident on a freeway, you know, just fortunately I survived.
It was a large median strip,but that's what I experienced,
that whole experience of justbeing constant fatigue and
trying to adapt to sleep andbehavior and perform my best.
That's what's got me interestedin.

(04:42):
You know what was going on atthat time and the whole area of
circadian rhythms was really notvery well established.
There'd been some little bit ofwork in animals and so forth
not so much in men or humans, Ishould say in people and so we
took a detour, went to Harvard,did a PhD there in the
physiology department and thenjoined the faculty and had a

(05:05):
chance to build a laboratorystudying circadian rhythms.
Actually, I had an appointmentin the surgery department so I
could do human studies on theone hand and studies in animals
and monkeys and other species inthe physiology department, and
that led to a very productivetime where we were able to show

(05:25):
a lot of what happened in thebody when things fell apart,
when people got disrupted byirregular schedules and so forth
, and that resulted in multiplepapers and books and everything
else that went along.
And somewhere along the waycompanies started to contact me
and say hey, you're talkingabout sleep disruption, patterns

(05:45):
of this.
I've got a whole lot of fatiguedshift workers here.
What can you do?
And that led us to do someprojects in industry.
The first one was actually aGreat Salt Lake Minerals and
Chemicals Company taking potashout of the Great Salt Lake.
Those guys were workingbackwards, rotating eight-hour
shifts around the clock.

(06:05):
They were constantly fatigued,they were having errors, they
were having health problems andthey invited us to do something
about it.
And of course we knew nothingat that time other than the
science.
So we said, okay, we can dothis.
We can change the schedule, wecan change the rotation so it
rotates forward.
We can give proper breaks forpeople, we can do training on
the first shift work trainingever.

(06:27):
I don't know if they've everdone it before.
This is back in the 1980s.
That's a long time ago.
I remember talking to the plantmanager, looking at him over the
conference table.
He said have you ever done thisbefore, martin?
I said no, this is going to bethe first.
It's going to be a majorscientific breakthrough, because
the last thing an industrialmanager wants to hear that he's
going to be the first atanything.
He wants to be the nth, where nis a very large number.

(06:49):
It's a proven safe thing.
But he was sufficientlydesperate, I guess he let us do
it and out of that project wewere able to show big changes in
health and gastrointestinalissues resolved, we were able to
have sleep improved and, mostinteresting, we were able to
show productivity increase.
So the tons of potash comingout of that mine went up, you

(07:12):
know, 20%, 30% as a result ofthat and stayed there and that
of course meant a big amount tothe bottom line.
Turnover also reduced.
You know all that type of stuff, employee turnover.
So that was the first one andthat led us then to form a
company called Circadian whichnow has offices around the world
and we work with everyconceivable type of shift work

(07:33):
operation and we've done it nowLast year was our 40th year
offices in Australia andBrisbane.
We have offices in Japan andEurope and elsewhere around the
world and we work across many ofthe major companies airlines,
we work, obviously, pipelinesand manufacturing plants and you

(07:54):
know the big car companies useus for their big plants with
thousands of workers and we dopolice forces and everything you
can possibly imagine that runs24-7.
And out of that as the storygoes on.
We were doing all this and thenpeople started talking about
light as a problem, because theWorld Health Organization came

(08:14):
out with a finding, based onseveral bits of research, that
light at night was causingincreased risk of breast cancer
and prostate cancer and otherdisorders.
The shift work managers, ofcourse, that we were dealing
with said Martin, we can't doanything.
What can we do about that?
I mean, we have to have thelights on at night.
We have to.
We can't stop the operation atnight.

(08:36):
You know what's the problem.
And that then led us in turn tolooking at what it was in light.
That was the problem.
It turns out to be a blue partof the spectrum.
At what it was in light, thatwas the problem.
It turns out to be a blue partof the spectrum.
And once we fix that, then wecan actually solve that lighting
problem too, so you can havegood quality lighting without
the disruptive circadian effectsat night and the harmful
effects at night.
So it's been an interestingstory.

(08:56):
You know life's work, as itwere, but I'm delighted to have
the chance to talk a little bitabout it and answer your
questions.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
That is amazing.
What is really good?
If we can just back over thatpotash story as well?
You've got actual data therenow from the time before you
went in to the improvements thathave been made for them by
implementing quite simplestrategies.
Really, isn't it so to makesure that people are following

(09:24):
what the science is telling usin the actual N1, the human, to
show the improvement that it is?
And I think once we improvesleep and we understand the
eating around that it makes sucha difference to the wellbeing
of the shift worker as well.
So to have the data that showsthe improvements there makes

(09:46):
such a difference, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Absolutely does.
And, of course, over the yearswe've collected a lot of data in
a lot of places.
We just completed a series ofstudies some big automotive
factories where we saved themtens of millions of dollars
because turnover went way down.
They weren't having to keephiring people all the time.
But the secret just talkingabout shift scheduling for a

(10:08):
moment it's not just science.
You've got to meld the sciencewith the operational need of
that facility.
You know what does it actuallyneed to do?
And then you have to do it aswhat in fact are the preferences
and lifestyles of the shiftworkers.
And you've got to do it as abuy-in and you've got to do it
as a mutual exercise.
So you know, decreeing this isthe best shift schedule doesn't

(10:29):
work.
Just randomly picking shiftschedules doesn't work.
It's a systematic process andit's a collaborative process and
when you do that you get realbuy-in on the shift schedule the
employee you can represent.
You know this is a place wherepeople are living close by short
commutes.
This is a place that's remote,where people are driving an
arrow, or, you know, it makes abit of difference in terms of

(10:51):
how you do shift schedules.
So, you know, by tailoring theshift schedule, applying the
science and applying theoperational characteristics.
I'll just tell you one thingabout police In Canada, one of
the major police forces.
They had that place staffedexactly the same number of
police officers and firstresponders on call every hour of

(11:12):
the day.
Well, that's crazy because, asyou know, the demand is hugely
variable.
Saturday evening is hugely moredemand than Tuesday afternoon,
right, it's hugely more demandthan Tuesday afternoon, right.
And so the whole idea ofproportional staffing enabled us
for them to get the work done,but staff the schedule so that
you had the optimal number ofpeople.

(11:33):
So a lot of places are variablein terms of demand, a lot of
places have different things,and so over the years we've sort
of developed that expertise and, as I say, we work with over
half the Fortune 500, and wehave operations in Australia,
everywhere around the world youcan imagine.
In fact, we've done projects inevery continent of the world.
I think the only place wehaven't done it yet is

(11:55):
Antarctica, but Africa andeverywhere else we've been doing
mines, we've been doing allsorts of operations around the
world.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's very close to my heart being able to apply what
I have learned with what thescience has taught us, and this
is where it's important.
I believe that we have shiftworkers that are able to
research and dissect research,look at it and be in a position
where they have experience in ashift working environment.

(12:25):
That's where I came from.
36 years I'd done in shift workand then I went off into the
nutrition field and now thechrononutrition field, and then,
of course, there'schronobiology and we learned so
much about the body.
But we also you've rightlypointed out we need to be able
to understand the needs of theworkplace as well, because it's

(12:49):
an industry and we've got to beable to apply that into it.
It's no good just saying, oh,this is what the research tells
us, so we have to do that.
So I think that's a really,really important and very valid
point that it's about working inwith these organizations to
make sure that their needs aremet.
The workers' needs are met,then everyone, as you've quite

(13:11):
rightly said, buys in, and then,once everyone's bought in, it
just changes the whole mood, thewhole demeanor, everything in
the workplace.
That's wonderful.
I want to go to the very basics, if I can with you please,
doctor, and that is that you andyour team actually discovered
the suprachiasmatic nuclei.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Can you please explain to our listeners what
the SCN is and what role itplays in simple terms, because
this is a key factor for ourshift working community, isn't
right, absolutely yeah, there isa master clock, effectively in
our brains and the hypothalamusof the brains is located back
behind the eyes and that clockis a tiny pinhead size, clusters

(13:56):
of cells which measure the timeof day and actually keep the
various rhythms of the body insync with each other and in turn
they are linked by a pathway tothe eyes, a special pathway
called the retinal hypothermictract, and linked to special
cells in the eyes which we nowknow are effectively blue

(14:18):
detectors.
Very interesting they detectblue light, very narrow band of
blue light they detect.
And because these so-calledintrinsically photosensitive
retinal ganglion cells long nameIPRGCs, we call them those
cells in the back of the eye arenot associated particularly
with vision.
You can't see images with them.

(14:39):
They're really to do with lightlevels and they're detecting
whether it's day or night andinforming the body, because the
photopigment has a peaksensitivity at about 480
nanometers, which is a sky bluecolor.
Interestingly, that blue coloris the signal that says if they
see blue it's daytime, if theysee no blue, it's nighttime time

(15:06):
, if they see no blue, it'snighttime.
And that works really well inthe natural world and for you
know, 10,000 generations beforeelectric light, it worked
perfectly because, you know, daywas blue and night was dark and
very little blue in it.
Now, in fact, of course we comealong with electric light and
Edison's electric light had someblue, first of all the old days
with fire, wood fires andcandles.
Very little blue at all inthose.

(15:28):
So when our ancestors usedcampfires and they used candles
and all sorts of that type ofnight, it didn't disrupt our
circadian clocks at all.
The message that were day andnight wasn't messed up.
Edison came along and inventedthe light bulb.
That has about 4% blue in thetypical incandescent light bulb

(15:49):
and those of course were thepredominant light bulbs for a
long time.
They've just been banned inEurope.
I don't know whether they'rebanned in place in Australia,
but they're certainly banned inAmerica.
As of last August you can't buyan incandescent light bulb.
But essentially those bulbs arerelatively low in blue.
But where the problem isstarting to happen is when
blue-rich lights were developedbecause they were more energy

(16:11):
efficient.
Fluorescence were the firstthings that came in the 1970s
and 80s, or fluorescent lights,and we started to see there's a
fourfold increase in breastcancer before fluorescent,
blue-rich fluorescence and after.
We also, of course, morerecently, have seen the
emergence of LED lights, whichare now the predominant light

(16:33):
form.
Those LEDs are also based on ablue pump, so they're pumping
out a spike of blue light.
Now they spread the colors outwith some phosphors to give you
a white appearance, but you'vestill got to.
If you analyze the spectrum,it's a big spike of blue.
The problem is our bluedetectors in the eye are seeing
this blue when you've got thelights on in the evening or on a

(16:55):
night shift and they're sayingit must be daytime, which then
starts resetting body processes.
It suppresses the melatonin, itdisrupts the skin and clocks.
It makes our metabolism adaytime metabolism, not a
nighttime metabolism.
It makes us actually hungry.
That blue light increases yourappetite.
Shift workers on the nightshift snack under blue light.

(17:17):
And so when we discovered thatit was this blue and it's a
fairly narrow part of bluebecause color spectrum when we
see white light people don'tthink about it.
When you see a white oryellowish light, it's got all
the colors of the rainbow in it.
You know.
It's got violet, it's got blue,it's got green, it's got yellow
, got orange, got red.
All those colors are sittingthere, but we can't see that

(17:38):
they all merge together in ourperception and we see it as
white light.
Those color content matters,and so we said, okay, if we can
develop lights that still appearwhite in other words, you can
still see and read and do yourjob and we could take out the
blue, maybe we could dosomething about this problem.
And that's what we did.
We invented LEDs that don't havethat blue in them, and now

(18:02):
those LEDs that don't have thatblue in them, and now those LEDs
.
We applied them into lightfixtures for control rooms.
We installed about 65 controlrooms around or over North
America and in some in Europe,and we were able to show big
improvements in sleep, inpeople's performance, in their
well-being.
We showed gastrointestinaldisorders were reduced.

(18:23):
We showed people were usingless over-the-counter
medications Very interestingfinding because they weren't
trying to self-medicatethemselves to cope with the
feeling of fatigue and malaiseor shift work.
And so those lights.
Then you know, havingdemonstrated and having done the
science and then showed thesebenefits, we said, okay, we have
to scale this thing up.
So we licensed it to some ofthe largest lighting companies,

(18:47):
including particularly Corus,who eventually acquired the
technology, and they now, I'mdelighted to say, they've not
only got light bulbs which arezero blue, but now they have
lights which are both circadianblue appropriate name and they
provide white light that is bluerich during the day, and white

(19:08):
light that is devoid of blue,zero blue, effectively called
max blue and zero blue.
And those lights just gotintroduced last week at the
lighting show in New York andnow they're worldwide
distribution.
So we're part of the wholeexercise of getting them out
into the workplace.
So the solution is there.
So what these lights are doingis it looks like white light.

(19:31):
Day and night looks the same,but it provides that blue signal
for day and it provides zeroblue at night, and so it doesn't
disrupt the circadian rhythms.
People perform better, theyfeel better, they can do their
work, and it's all switchedautomatically.
So it's sequenced to naturalsunrise and sunset, so you know

(19:52):
it's programmed so that it knowswhat local time zone left, you
longitude, wherever you are inthe world, season of the year
and everything else, and theyjust the lights do it
automatically.
You don't want to fiddle withthe switch and control them
yourself.
You want to do it automatically.
So we're very excited aboutthat.
There are also coming out othertypes of lights and now there's
going to be a Kickstartercampaign coming out for a screen

(20:16):
.
So we can do this for thecomputer screens, because
another source of light, thelock shift organs, are sitting
in front of the screen.
That screen is popping out bluebecause it's got these blue
LEDs in it.
Now we've got screens that aremetameric, which means you
cannot see the color change whenthey look the same.
It's either rich in blue duringthe day or it's got no blue at

(20:37):
night.
So now we've got light bulbs,we've got fixtures, we've got
screens, we've got the totalsolution.
And the key is bathing the shiftworker in a healthy environment
that is keeping himsynchronized to regular life
while he's working shift work.
That's the sequence, and a lotof people have questions about
it.
They say well, how is thatpossible?
Do we need to adjust?
The problem is the shift workertries to physiologically adjust

(21:00):
.
They get all screwed up.
They've got to adjust back whentheir day's off, they've got to
adjust back in the other day.
Much better to keep theircircadian clocks all in sync
with natural daylight and then,as a result, they can actually
cope and because the light isnaturally alerting, they can
work safely through the shiftand get to sleep, and get to
sleep when they need to get tosleep.

(21:21):
You know daytime sleep, if it'sa night shift, and so forth.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Am I right in saying, then, that it's the blue light
only that is actually disruptingour circadian rhythm?
It's not light in general.
The question I ask here is eventhough I'm working in a call
center and I've got the lightson, but all blue light has gone,
does that mean, because I cansee light, it's not disrupting

(21:47):
the circadian rhythm because theblue light spike has been
removed from the light?

Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's right.
Essentially, all light has someeffect, but the blue light is
25 times more potent than anyother part of the spectrum, and
so you are mostly picking outmost of that effect of light.
That is undesirable.
So it's really.
Yes, the secret is removing theblue during when you're
nighttime hours, providing theblue during the daytime hours,

(22:15):
and that's what keeps our bodiesand rhythms in sync, marching
in step with the natural world.
You know, when we don't do that, we get.
It's not just thissuprachiasmatic nucleus, because
that's the master plan.
We've got clocks in every cellof the body.
We've got clocks in our muscles.
We've got clocks in our liver.
We've got clocks in every cellof the body.
We've got clocks in our muscles, we've got clocks in our liver,
we've got clocks in our stomachand elsewhere, and all those

(22:37):
clocks get out of sync with eachother.
That's the problem of jet lagand shift work and everything
else is that malaise when allyour clocks are out of sync with
each other.
So it's important to besynchronized in the environment,
but also synchronizedinternally, but also
synchronized internally, andthat master clock, supported by
the blue light schedule, enableseverything to keep in sync and
hence perform at their best.

(22:59):
It affects your immune systems.
The problem is called circadiandisruption.
When the clocks are out of syncand the body is out of sync,
circadian disruption is reducedimmunity.
You're more susceptible toCOVID, more susceptible to flu
and everything else.
It affects your risk of heartdisease.
It affects risk of diabetes andobesity.
I mean we were able to show theglucose tolerance test, which

(23:22):
is that sugar.
You drink sugar and you figureout whether or not your glucose
goes too high in the body.
Those are very heavilyinfluenced by blue light.
Adversely.
You've got the pre-diabeticcondition perfectly healthy
person in just one overnightshift.
That's all reversed by usinglight that is zero blue.
So it's a lot of research.

(23:43):
We've been working this now forthe last 10 plus years and
we've had it in the field in 65Fortune 500 companies six, seven
years now.
So we've got a lot ofexperience with it and it's
really very effective and I'mdelighted that now it's getting
into scale manufacturing.
But there's a road to climbbecause virtually all the lights

(24:06):
sold today are blue rich LEDs,static blue rich LEDs, which
means they don't change day andnight, and I think that's a huge
problem.
You know we're seeing much morecancer in young people.
That's one of the new thingswe're seeing.
We're seeing much more illnessand depression.
The effect of this blue light isamazing in terms of, if you get

(24:26):
it wrong, you increase the riskof depression, psychiatric
disorders.
It's fascinating Now the otherside of the risk of depression,
psychiatric disorders.
It's fascinating Now.
The other side of it, of course, is you want to use natural
light as much as you can.
The other message as part ofthis is not only deal with the
indoor lighting, but, if you canget outside in the daytime,
your schedule allowing, ofcourse, the shift worker, if
you're someone who works thedays getting out in the morning

(24:50):
hours in particular with thenatural sunlight, because
there's so much more blue andrichness of blue and other
colors in that light, so naturalsunlight is really critical.
So people who get outside morelive longer, which is a
fascinating finding Big studies.
Now you know the golfers, right, live five years longer than
non-golfers because you knowthey're out out the course.

(25:12):
What three, four hours, whateverthey're outside right, and
people who are outside live muchlonger than people who have
light at night, whether it'sshift workers, and people say,
well, maybe shift works, thereare other risks of shift work.
But in fact, what's fascinatingis the studies of people who
sleep with the lights on atnight.
Right, a lot of people do that.

(25:33):
Over 50% of elderly people do30%, 40% of younger people do.
Sleeping with the lights on atnight the same effect as working
shifts in terms of disorders ofhealth and double the risk of
people who sleep with the lightson.
Double the risk of obesity,diabetes and heart disease.
Staggering findings that now weknow there's a lot we have to

(25:55):
do and unfortunately, you know,the lighting industry has not
helped us at all because it'sjust still pumping out cheap,
blue, rich light, and so this isgoing to have to be a bit of a
campaign that everybody shouldbe aware of.
You know what the light isdoing to them and look for
better solutions, aware of whatthe light is doing to them and

(26:16):
look for better solutions.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I hope you're enjoying the show.
If you are, please don't forgetto rate and review once you've
finished.
This helps the show's reachenormously.
And have you got my free ebookthe Best Way to Eat on Night
Shift?
Well, this is a comprehensiveguide to the overnight fast way
to eat on night shift.
Well, this is a comprehensiveguide to the overnight fast, why
we should fast and how to bestgo about it.
I've even included a fewrecipes to help you.
I've put a link to the ebook inthe show notes.

(26:45):
And are you really strugglingwith shift work and feel like
you're just crawling from oneshift to the next?
Well, I've got you.
If you would like to work withme, I can coach you to thrive,
not just survive, whileundertaking the rigours of 24-7
shift work.
I also conduct in-house livehealth and wellbeing seminars
where I will come to yourworkplace and deliver

(27:05):
evidence-based information tohelp your wellbeing team to
reduce unplanned leave andincrease productivity in your
workplace.
I've put the links in the shownotes to everything mentioned.
You can find me athealthyshiftcom or on Instagram
at a underscore healthy,underscore shift.

(27:26):
Now let's get back to the showwhen it comes to installing.
I can understand why, whenpeople build homes today, they
fill them full of these energyefficient LED lighting because
they don't understand the impactthat that light is actually
having on their health full stop.
And we're exposing youngchildren to this and we're also

(27:49):
exposing ourselves to thislighting all the time.
And it's cheaper and so, ofcourse, people are going to use
them to replace your lighting inyour house with circadian
lighting.
What is it costly?
Are these circadian lights anexpensive process?
I mean, at what value do youput on your health full stop?

(28:11):
But is it expensive for someoneto just replace their whole
home with circadian lighting?

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Well, it is a bit more expensive, obviously, than
regular lighting because we'vegot cheap masks, produced stuff
out of Asia these days you knowthat everyone is using, and
lights that change automaticallyyou know are more expensive.
But to give you a sense of it,you can buy zero blue light
bulbs now and, as I say, you'llmake sure there are different
types of them.

(28:36):
For example, these are LEDs, sothey're going to last much
longer than incandescents mostof all.
But like $25 or so is the costof one of those light bulbs.
Think about this for a momentPeople who are under blue rich
light have this higher risk ofdiabetes and obesity.
What do they take?
They take a Zempik or Gova orone of these medications.

(28:57):
In America that costs people$600, $700 a month.
Well, changing a light bulb isa hell of a lot cheaper and
better for your health thanliving under blue rich light and
then popping pills orinjections in order to deal with
the medical consequences of it.
So the cost is really not thatgreat to change this and the

(29:17):
costs are coming down.
The chorus family of companiesis driving these into scale, and
so that's very important.
Fixtures are more expensivethan in terms of performance and
productivity and reducedabsenteeism.
Boy, you're paying for that sofast in terms of return on
investment.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
To be able to improve productivity to start off with,
reduce illness and unplannedleave, even to the stage where
we look at shift workers withmental health issues, ptsd and
things like that, to be able toimprove the health all round.
There's a massive benefit herefor companies to actually go
right.
This is what we're doing, evenif they were to start in certain

(30:00):
areas, like if I think ofplaces like call centers and put
it into places like these callcenters with the circadian
lighting.
The question that I actuallyhave is as humans, do we notice
the difference in the lighting?
I think we have a perceptionthat lighting-friendly blue
light, I think we always see itas a yellow light, like when our

(30:22):
screen changes on our phone orour screen changes on our
computer or we go and buy a bluelight globe that we put in our
bedside lamp, we see it asyellow, proper circadian
lighting.
Does it have that yellow hue oris it literally just look
normal?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
So this is a good question because you can get the
effect of removing blue bygetting what's called a very low
correlated color temperature.
In other words, the standardway the LEDs work or lights work
, is they use something calledthe color temperature or the
correlated color temperature,cct, and you'll see that in the
label.
A typical comfortable CCT is3,000 to 4,000 Kelvin.

(31:01):
If you get way down to below1,800 Kelvin, maybe 1,500 Kelvin
, you get a very yellow-orangelight.
Right, it has no blue in it.
So you've solved the problemthat way, and there are
companies introducing theselights now.
I mean, there are 60 hospitalsin Europe and 40 nursing homes

(31:21):
where they put these lights.
They're very low in blue atnight, but the problem is it's a
yellow-orange light which israther depressing.
What we did is build a spectrumthat shifts that by using some
violet light which doesn'ttrigger the circadian problem in
the mix, and that's enabled usto whiten it down.
Now it's a little yellower thanyou know, really bright light,

(31:42):
but it's a very comfortablecolor and shift workers really
liked it very much.
And so, yes, it does changecolor a little bit, but it's a
gradual change.
So as dawn and dusk occurs, thelights gradually shift color
from being a little whiter tobeing a little yellow, but it's
in a very normal, comfortablerange of color temperatures

(32:03):
which people find very good.
So there are lights out therethat take away the blue by going
to a very yellow-orange light.
Just like you know, when youlook at people using glasses to
blue blockers, if your blueblocking glasses have a slight
bluish tint or whatever, but avery little tint, they're
actually doing no goodwhatsoever, right?
If they're very yellow-orangelooking, they're blocking now

(32:26):
the right light.
Right?
I have to tell you this.
We were investigating thisproblem.
We knew the blue light was theproblem.
We knew what the spectrum was.
The first thing we said islet's develop eyewear where we
put a coating on that blocks theblue.
We developed this eyewear andeverything, and the first place
we did this was in Australia.

(32:46):
It so happened we had companiesin the mining industry and the
big control centers there therecontrolling some of the
railroads.
We got everyone very excited andput on the lights.
We thought it was a great thingand put on the glasses,
equipped everyone with theeyewear and, lo and behold,
whoops on the screens.
You know this is mostly singletrack stuff and you see each

(33:09):
train moving across the screenin a different color.
You put the glasses on andtrains disappeared.
Now, that was not, you know.
We put the brakes on thatproject.
So the people had to lift theirglasses, look at the screen,
you know, make sure they saw thetrain.
That was a real learning lesson.
That was early in the days.
What the shift work managerssaid to us.

(33:37):
They said Martin, you know,come on, why didn't you change
the lights?
In the days, what the shiftwork managers said to us is that
, martin, you know, come on, whydidn't you change the lights in
the building, not change theeyewear?
And that's what actually led usto start developing any of
these that solve the problem,because then you know that we
don't have any of those colorproblems.
But that was the industryexperience.
So I remember doing a couple ofquick trips running these
projects and saying we groundthat one to a halt very fast.
Now there's a place.
Obviously, if you're usingeyewear, if you're in your home,
if you're in a place you can'tcontrol the lights of your kids

(34:00):
in the library or whatever elseand you can't change the lights,
then eyewear is obviously asolution to it.
The best thing is to get theactual light bulbs and light
fixtures changed in where youwork and in your home, and so in
my home I have these lights,the zero blue at night and all
the rest of it practice what Ipreach.
But it's exciting to see thisnow coming into mass production

(34:23):
and, as I say, now it'savailable worldwide, including
Australia.
So our office in Brisbanehelped me lead the charge and
got a lot of companies workingthe shift work very excited.
So, yeah, the time has come andthis is now deliverable.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, we're very excited it's wonderful what
we're learning now.
It's even more exciting now too, because with our smart homes
like you know, a lot of peoplehave got these smart homes now
that as you walk into rooms orcertain times of the day,
lighting changes and things likethat too.
The scope is amazing.
Like you can literally have itthat as you're coming home, the

(35:01):
lighting is changing to thelighting that you need.
It goes to the right light inthe bedroom while you're in the
bedroom, and so on and so forth,and I think this is really,
really exciting times.
But what I do want to get intois what I find fascinating, and
I'm going to be honest with youhere.
The penny dropped for me justnow when you were talking about

(35:22):
the SCN the supracusumaticnucleus does not see that it's
day or night other than prettymuch through that blue light
predominantly.
Day or night other than prettymuch through that blue light
predominantly.
So while we're walking aroundat night in a call center that's
got circadian lighting on, theSCN doesn't really realize that
it's daytime per se.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (35:42):
That's right.
The SCN realizes that it's beentold that it's daytime during
the day and nighttime during thenight.
So it's not losing, it's stillin sync with the outside world,
even though it can't see as.
So it's not losing, it's stillin sync with the outside world,
even though it can't see, as Isay naturally.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's amazing.
Now I, on my Instagram story,nearly every single day put up a
picture of from my bed lookingout the window, and I always
make it sky before screen, likethe people should be getting
that daylight before they startlooking at their screen.
Now I do this for two reasons.
One reason is to reset thatcircadian clock, to get that

(36:19):
daylight in, to show the bodythat it's daytime.
The second reason is so thatyou are actually setting your
intentions for the day andgiving your brain a chance to
wake up and register that it'sdaytime before you start filling
your brain full of rubbish offyour mobile phone.
What are your thoughts aroundthat?

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, no, I think that exposure to light in the
morning is the most effectivetime.
That actually is very good foryour health.
Fascinating to show howpowerful morning daylight is.
Basically, hospitals inScandinavia have found out that
if they put patients who've gotpsychiatric conditions or
whatever in rooms of a hospitalthat are facing south and east,

(36:58):
they get morning sunlight.
And other patients randomly endup in rooms that are facing
north and south that don't seethat sunlight coming in or
daylight coming in in themorning.
Guess what they're out in halfthe time.
Same doctors, same medications,same medical conditions.
They're just cured faster as aresult of morning sunlight, and

(37:19):
so it's a very, very powerfulthing.
People who are near windows getmore sleep at night than those
who are in the cubicles orwherever away from the window.
So that morning sunlight isreally critical and certainly,
as I say, it affects lifespan,affects health, mental health,
affects general health, allcauses of morbidity,

(37:40):
cardiovascular disease.
People who see sunlight getfewer deaths from heart disease
and all the rest of it.
So the data is huge.
My book, by the way, the LightDoctor, which was out of
Substack as a serial, is nowcoming out as a print book that
tells the whole story and that Ireally would recommend, because
you know I've written a bookthat really is trying to explain

(38:01):
to people so they can beadvocates, educated people like
yourself and others who areinterested, as something to hand
to their manager and say, heylook, this is the science here,
it's well demonstrated andthere's so much evidence behind
it and that's key, so it's amatter of persuasion.
So the Light Doctor, you canlook it up on the web.
That's the book that willreally help everyone, I think,

(38:22):
really explain this science andwhat the evidence is and how
strong it is and what thesolutions are and where to find
the light fixtures, light bulbsthat you need.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
I've followed on Substack to the Light Doctor
book, but I love a hard copy ofa book and I do have a library
full of books behind me herethat I love to read and learn
and I think one of my favoritebooks is Russell Foster
Professor Russell Foster's book,lifetime, and I love to have
the hard copy.
And I've got to be honest withyou, dr Morit, I opened the book
and I reference it quite oftenand I think it's very important
that we have a hard copy of abook for people to do.

(38:57):
That Substack's great.
I'm so excited that you'rereleasing your book as a
paperback or as a hard cover forpeople.
Is it released in the hard copyyet or not?
I haven't seen that Well.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
I've just got the proofs being prepared right now
for it, so we're going intoproduction with it.
I hope we get this out laterthis spring.
Out of the readers on Substackand it's become a bestseller on
Substack online 86% of them saythey want to buy a print copy,
which is very encouragingbecause I think, exactly like
you say, having a bookphysically that you can share

(39:30):
with people.
Exactly like you say, having abook physically that you can
share with people.
I had someone call me up theother day and said I want to get
half a dozen copies so I canuse it for education purposes.
Hey, read this.
You need to pay attention tothat.
So that will be coming out.
You know, obviously I may needto get it on Amazon and
elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Wonderful, I think we are in a position today that
we've got so many questionsaround.
Why have we got more cancers insociety?
Why are we an obese society?
Why are we suffering from moreheart attacks and cardiovascular
disease and stroke?
Why is this actually occurringto us?
And what happens is and becauseI'm in the nutrition field,

(40:07):
everyone goes oh, people arejust overeating.
It could actually be not a lotto do with the food.
It could be the signals thatcome from the light, correct?

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think there's so muchwritten on light.
I was being amazed becauseobviously I've been looking at
the publishing houses.
You know one publishing houseon their list, big publishing
house, has 1,940 books onnutrition and diet and one book
on light and health, and thatwas published in 2013, before

(40:37):
LEDs came on the market.
It was crazy there's nothingout there.
And so we've got and everyone Ispeak to is amazed by this all
this evidence of light, and it'sjust to that point of getting
to the tipping point where itbreaks through.
But right now we need to getthe message out.
As I say, delighted to be onyour podcast and appreciate,

(40:57):
roger, everything you're doingto spread the word on this.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
I will absolutely be spreading the word on this.
I can totally understand thebattle that you would have,
facing corporate industry todaygoing in there trying to sell
them something that they can'tsee.
And that's the biggest problemthat we have, because we can go
in and say that vending machineover there, you need to get rid
of that and put healthy food init.
And people go, yep, that makessense because that's what we're

(41:23):
told.
As you said, there's 1900 bookson nutrition, one on light.
It's a massive battle that weneed to work to highlight.
We are always trying to workout why people do certain things
in the nutrition field, whypeople are obese, why are they
overeating?
What is it that's differentabout them that causes them to

(41:44):
overeat as against somebody else?
And it could literally be likethe shift working the light
exposure, confusing the hungerand satiety signals and actually
playing havoc on the hungerhormones, ghrelin and leptin.
Fair call.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah, no, I think there's a huge interaction here.
Obviously, what you eat isimportant, but there's
interaction with light, becauselight stimulates hunger.
Particularly blue lightstimulates appetite and can have
people overeating just byexposure to blue light.
So there's a big interactiongoing on here and so, yeah,
we've got a balanced nutrition.

(42:19):
I think there's a lot ofinteresting nutrition and diets
and everything else.
But you know, this is an areawhich is new and where we're
doing terrible things toourselves right now with the led
lights and we we're beingforced into it.
It's an energy thing, right?
In other words, people say,well, you know, led lights are

(42:40):
energy efficient, that's fewerlumens per watt.
But you know, roger, when theymeasure lumens per watt, people
don't realize that a lumen isreally measuring the very
brightest part of light, whichis the yellow and green part of
the spectrum.
So a lumen when you say lumensfor what we can produce, it says
we're using electricity toproduce a lot of yellow and
green light that makes it lookbright.

(43:03):
Blue light and red light bluelight, which is critical for
sagittal rhythms, red isessential for healing, it is
part of the spectrum are notmeasured at all by lumens.
For what?
So is it energy efficient ifwe're not doing the same thing?
In other words, energyefficiency is really doing the
same thing for less electricityIf we're doing something

(43:25):
different and we're not doingsomething healthy.
Are we really beingelectrically efficient, right,
is it really energy efficient.
But the world is so locked upand I understand climate change
and that's a problem and it's anissue that has to be dealt with
.
But it's got labeled as thislearners for what?
Business?
Which is crazy because it's notmeasuring the full effect of

(43:47):
light and certainly isn'tmeasuring healthiness of light,
so it's leading us to push forlights, or the government to
push for lights, that arefundamentally unhealthy.
We've got to get rid of theseblue rich LEDs or these static
blue rich LEDs.
Blue rich LEDs are fine duringthe day, but not at night.
We've got to make sure thatthose lights are changed and we

(44:09):
get rid of this blue when it isso harmful.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
It causes so much disruption to our health and
sleep and everything else do youfeel moving forward now that
this is an occupational healthand safety issue for workplaces,
that they are actually, oncethey're made aware of it, if
they're not doing somethingabout changing the lighting and

(44:33):
getting rid of that blue richlight at night in a shift
working environment, are theyputting their staff at risk?

Speaker 1 (44:41):
absolutely.
Yeah, no, this is a realoccupational health risk and it
is actually fairly simple to fix.
That's the amazing thing aboutit, right?
In other words, if you think ofit, blue light is a pollutant
at night, but most chemicalpollutants are extremely hard to
get rid of All the PFASchemicals and all those types of
things, the forever chemicals,very hard to change, you know,

(45:05):
lead piping, everything else isexpensive and hard to change.
This is just change the damnlight bulb.
It's pretty simple.
So you know, we just need toget people to understanding that
they need to buy light withview to health, not just due to
illumination, and realize thatyou know you can have good
illumination.
Now that's the fortunate thingwith healthy light.

(45:26):
Why wouldn't you have that?
And that's really the question.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
For me, it just makes perfect sense because, as a
company, companies are sopolitically correct and so
correct in every way whenthey're worried about gender and
things like that.
But if someone raises an issuearound the light and the damage
that the light is causing, it'san absolute no-brainer that they
should be getting on the frontfoot and doing something about

(45:49):
it straight away, before theystart to receive civil suits
down the track that.
You've exposed me to this light.
I've been working here for 20years.
You've been exposing me to thisblue light overnight when there
was a solution that you weremade aware of.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
One of the things.
By the way, I should also pointout that people said blue light
is good at night because itkeeps you awake, right, the
problem is that the blue isdoing so much harm.
At the same time, we've got inour mix, in our spectral recipe,
as it were, some violet lightwhich actually is more alerting,
so it helps people stay alerton the night shift without

(46:26):
causing the health disruption,and so that's really critical.
We can solve that alertnessproblem.
Really.
There's no need to have bluelight, and there's a lot of
confusion right now in thescientific community and so
forth about you know people arefocused on.
We need blue light for safety?
Well, no, because it's notworth keeping people alert and

(46:49):
really damaging their health andthat's irresponsible.
So that's really the key hereand, as I say, I'm just
delighted that we've got thelights finally out mass market
available worldwide.
We can get them distributed andinstalled.
So they are invented, ready togo and thoroughly proven,
embedded and a lot of scientificresearch demonstrating their

(47:11):
value.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Amazing.
It's so exciting it.
It's such an exciting area thatyou're going into now and your
work is just you're saving lives.
It's end of story, martin.
What you're doing is you'reliterally going to be saving
lives.
So, for people that arelistening to this, can you give
us some researched examples ofhow circadian lighting has

(47:33):
actually improved workplaces?
Now, I've read this and I'veactually got the stats in front
of me, but can you speak aboutthe 65 Fortune 500 companies
that you've got and what datayou've got back on how it's
actually improved the workplaces?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
We've done these, installed in 65 sites and there
are everything from controlrooms, manufacturing to
hospitals and variety places andbasically what we've been able
to show is improved alertness,reduced operational errors.
I mean we've had people doingsome pretty critical jobs.
What we've done is studies.

(48:09):
We've looked at people undertheir pre-existing lights you
the standard lights they have,whether they're fluorescent or
LEDs.
We then moved and had thelights in place for a year and
studied people after a year ofexposure.
So we now know, you know, howare people operating a year

(48:30):
later and we showed a reductionin operator errors, people
making fewer errors.
We've been able to show that inthe lab but we've been able to
show that in pretty criticalsituations.
We had one major company withrenewable energy, with
hydroelectric dams all overNorth America 67% reduction in
operator errors during that time.
We've shown sleep improvedsignificantly, both sleep before

(48:50):
night shifts and sleep afternight shifts improved and sleep
after night shifts improved.
We've shown reduction ingastrointestinal disorders and
people you know, stomach upsetsand all the things that shift
workers typically hadsignificant reductions in that
We've shown that people use lessover-the-counter medications
30% plus reduction inover-the-counter medications

(49:11):
used because people aren'tself-medicating themselves.
We've shown all these studiesare done in real-world
operations.
So we have a research centerhere called the Circadian Light
Research Center where we have asimulated work facility.
We have people working, we havebedrooms, totally
light-controlled.
People come in for a week at atime and we can do all sorts of

(49:31):
measures and metrics on thosepeople and we can show their
glucose tolerance, theirdiabetic nature of the blue LED
lights and our lights take awaythat increase of insulin
resistance and glucosemalfunction.
We should appetite and weshould snacking on the light
shift, by the way, reduced underthese lights.

(49:51):
Some studies have shown peopleactually some weight loss in
people working nights under thelights, you know, as part of
that.
So there's a whole host ofresearch studies that we've been
able to do which are veryencouraging and, as I say,
that's been done, the researchstudies that will have been done
over a 10-year period, researchstudies now for six or seven
years we've had the lights inplace in real world operations,

(50:16):
all sorts of real worldoperations.
Some big companies you knowchevron and various others and
dow chemical and all sorts ofbig companies have been involved
in this.
So we've got the lights in alot of big, high profile places.
Very good response.
People like them.
People feel more relaxing.
It's a stressful effect of theblue rich lights, particularly

(50:37):
at night.
You can find them ratherstressful.
So all of that is reallypositive and certainly all in
line with the rest of thescience.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Do we see an improvement in recovery times?
Obviously we've got our nursesand doctors and everyone working
, or at least all the staffworking in hospitals at night,
not to discount anybody.
But do we see an improvement inrecovery from patients by
getting proper circadianlighting as well?
So I would imagine thebiological recovery of the body

(51:07):
would have to be better if theywere circadian aligned.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, there's a certain amount of studies that
are showing reduction indepression in stroke patients.
There are a lot of specificexamples of studies that are
starting to show this.
Now you know the data is comingin.
Still, hospitals I'm a doctorright, the medical profession is
a little slower at uptake thanthis Much better uptake in a lot
of the other shift work type ofindustries.

(51:32):
Willingness to, you know,really take this on.
We're starting to see more andmore data from hospitals, which
is encouraging, affects somedepression and so forth.
We're now under discussionswith two major hospitals here in
North America and they're veryinterested in getting the lights
in as soon as possible.
We're moving towards that andwe'll be gathering more data as

(51:52):
we go forward in this area.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
It is a really exciting area because I think
you know, with my time as ashift worker myself, I know
working daytime, nighttime, whenmy job was predominantly an
outdoor job at night my visionwas better.
I slept so much better becauseI was exposed to natural dark at
night and also then during theday the normal natural light.

(52:15):
So I was much better.
But then I came off the roadinto a call center where I was
exposed to a lot of blue light.
My sleep did suffer more.
There's no doubt about it.
You've answered why.
So if there was no circadiandisruption there, it would make
a huge difference to it, I'msure.
So what way do you see shiftworkers sabotaging the most in

(52:39):
their shift working world?
Like you are dealing with a lotof shift working environments.
If you had to put your fingeron one thing that they could
improve their shift working life, what would it be?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Well, I think it's a very complex situation, shift
workers, because you've got tobalance.
I mean, you know you've gottime in the workplace but then
you've got time at home andyou've got to balance both.
And so a lot of it is you knowhow you educate and negotiate
with your family and have thefamily understanding about your
need to sleep in the dark, evenif it's the middle of the day in

(53:10):
a quiet place.
If you're working nights, havethe family understand what the
schedule is and working aroundthat.
A lot of it is communication,all that.
So you know we have a managinga shift work lifestyle course
that we teach all over the world, really helping the shift
worker in everything to do withnutrition, to do with light, to
do with family and social eventsand how to figure that out.

(53:32):
That's really key.
And then, of course, in theworkplace, is the management
amenable and educated as to whatbenefits they could get?
So it's all about the with-insfrom the management.
The with-in is the what's in itfor me, right.
So if you can describe it interms of reduction, absenteeism
reduction, employee turnover,reduction in errors and

(53:53):
accidents, reduction inhealthcare costs, those are big
whiffings for the management.
For the shift worker.
It's a different conversation.
It's about your quality of life, about your general health, et
cetera, et cetera, how we'vebeen able to work over the years
and we're great believers thatyou have to work both parties
fully involved.
You know both the and ifthey're unionized, have the

(54:15):
union involved.
The middle rest.
Why are you going to do it thatway is because that's how
solutions happen.
So we're going to have peopleand done projects right through
the middle of major strikes inthe railroads, for example, the
only thing they could agree onwas the project we were doing,
because both management and theunion sold the value of it.
But that's what you're going todo, you know, and what we're
doing is, of course, bringingnew tools, new technologies.

(54:38):
The lighting is a brand-new,exciting thing to add to the mix
.
To really help all that and Ithink we need to do you know
companies need to look atlighting the workplaces
correctly, but also even theshift worker in lighting their
own homes.
Maybe some subsidies forcircadian lighting in the home
is a really sensible thing for acompany to be doing, and

(55:00):
certainly we can work both myways of getting circadian light
bulbs available for the shiftworker in his home or her home,
and I think that's key as well.
So, no, it's an exciting time,roger, yeah, I hope this
conversation is really gettingthe world out and I appreciate
what you're doing in this front.
So I hope this conversation isreally getting the world out and
I appreciate what you're doingin this front.
So it's been good talking toyou today.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Thank you so much.
I'm very grateful I've had somemassive well, I'm going to call
it light bulb moments here.
I'm very privileged to havelistened to you a number of
times on different podcasts andI've still had light bulb
moments, so I can't begin toimagine what it's going to be
like for people listening tothis for the first time, and I'm
very, very grateful of yourtime.
Our listeners will be very,very grateful and they need to

(55:42):
follow your work.
In the show notes I will putthe links to everything that
I've got from you your LinkedIn,your Instagram, your Twitter,
youtube.
You've got your book website,thelightdoctorcom.
You've announced that the bookis becoming a hard copy.
I will absolutely be front andcenter for a copy of that and
that will sit and take pride ofplace, because I know the value

(56:04):
that that actually offers andpeople need to be reading that.
Today.
You've covered so many of thequestions that I had just in the
way you've spoken, and I knewyou would, because you speak so
well and so articulated withwhat you've explained to us at
layman's level, which isfantastic.
As a return, I've just winbillions of dollars here and I
have a closing question that Iask people.

(56:25):
I must admit, I didn't win the$1.3 billion US lottery this
week, which is disappointing,but I'll have another crack next
week.
So, martin, if I bought a housefor you anywhere in the world,
I'm prepared to buy it and buildit anywhere in the world,
anywhere that you would like it,but you have to live in it for
six months of the year.
Where would you like me to buyit or build it for you?

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Oh gosh, that's a great question.
I'm English, right, I grew upin England, so I think somewhere
in the English countryside iswhere I choose that I was doing
that.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
You would go home, back into the darkness.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
America's a great place to work and everything
else, but maybe that's where.
But yeah, I have a very nicehome in Massachusetts and Boston
area, so I don't need anotherhome here.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
No, of course not.
Thank you so much, Martin.
We're very grateful for yourtime and I do sincerely
appreciate it.
Good Thank you, Roger.
Great talking with you.
And that's Dr Martin MoreedWasn't that just an amazing talk
?
And he speaks so well.
I know I had light bulb momentsin there.
I find it interesting thatgolfers live five years longer
than most people that don't playgolf.

(57:32):
I thought that was fascinating.
I would have thought the stresswould have killed them
personally, but anyway,obviously I'm not a good golfer,
so it wouldn't work for me atall.
Light how important is it?
We've just learned howimportant that blue light is and
the impact that it's having onour health.
Who's going out to have a lookat the circadian lighting now
for their own homes?
Yeah, and I think that'ssomething that we really really

(57:54):
need to be addressing in ourshift working environments Not
think, I know and you need tobring it to the attention of the
Occ Health and Safety team, HRand get it into the workplace,
because you're putting your ownhealth at risk.
On that note, if you got anyvalue out of the podcast, please
make sure that you share it,rate and review it on Apple

(58:16):
Podcasts.
I would be ever so grateful.
It does make such a differenceto the show and it helps me to
get guests like Dr Martin Moreidon the show, and I will catch
you on the next one.
Thank you for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you get
notified whenever a new episodeis released.
It would also be ever sohelpful if you could leave a

(58:38):
rating and review on the appyou're currently listening on.
If you want to know more aboutme or work with me, you can go
to ahealthyshiftcom.
I'll catch you on the next one.

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[136] - Dr. Martin Moore-Ede - How bad is Blue Light exposure at night? The benefits of Circadian Lighting

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}[136] - Dr. Martin Moore-Ede - How bad is Blue Light exposure at night? The benefits of Circadian Lighting