June 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Company: 108 Degrees Digital Marketing
Guests: MaryAnn Pfeiffer
Year Started: 2001
Employees: 1-10
What happens when an agency owner stops doing it all and decides to go all in on what truly works? In this episode, Maryann Pfeiffer of 108 Degrees shares how becoming a recognized expert, through years of focused effort, transformed her agency’s positioning, visibility, and lead generation. You'll hear a candid take on the real investment required to build credibility and why saying no can be the smartest move you make.
Inside this episode:
- Why doing everything for everyone dilutes your expertise (and what to do instead)
- How an investment around a tool like Mailchimp led to unexpected business opportunities
- The importance of community and certification in building authority
- What most agency owners overlook when refining their services
- A refreshingly honest view of the emotional and strategic pivots behind agency growth
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What does it really take to stand out in a crowded
marketing landscape?
Welcome to an agency storypodcast.
I'm your host, Russell.
It's not just a clever taglineor shiny certification, it's
about doing the work over manyyears and not just claiming
expertise, but investing in it.
That's exactly what today'sguest, Maryann Pfeiffer of 108
(01:02):
Degrees has done.
In this episode, you'll hear howMaryann evolved from an
accidental agency owner into aMailChimp pro partner, one of
just a few hundred globally, bydoubling down on the
fundamentals, building areputation through community,
and carving out a clear,profitable position rooted in
email marketing.
But more than that, she sharesthe honest journey behind the
(01:24):
scenes, the pivots, thetrade-offs, and the intentional
decisions that turn toconsulting gig.
Into a mission-driven agency,built on integrity and team
empowerment.
This episode is a reminder thatsustainable growth favors those
who go deep, not wide.
Enjoy the story.
From a temporary consulting gigto becoming one of Mailchimp's
(01:45):
top pro partners and built apowerhouse team of
entrepreneurial women looking tomake the world a better place,
our guest today is MaryannPfeiffer with 108 Degrees.
Welcome to the show today,Maryann.
Maryann (01:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Russel (01:58):
Very excited to have you as well.
We were just doing a pre-recordchat, and so we're gonna revisit
our, our, our conversation.
Maryann (02:06):
How we're all agency owners by accident.
Russel (02:08):
Yes.
I think I shared that I'm stilllooking for the first agency
owner that way back, once upon atime said, I'm gonna start an
agency someday and then that'show they went about their path,
which I don't think you're thatfirst use case for me.
Are you?
Maryann (02:21):
No, I am not.
I fell into this like everyoneelse, uh, you know, accidental
entrepreneur who didn't intendto start an agency.
Of all the agency owners that Iknow, and I know quite a few of
them, um, no one has started andsaid, this is what I'm gonna do.
We've all fallen into it or beendragged into it one way or
another.
And I think, honestly, it'sbecause it's really hard.
(02:43):
Those first couple of years areterrible for most of us.
They're long hours with littlepay, very difficult, very
arduous.
You learn a lot about yourself.
You learn a lot about whatyou're capable of.
If you stick with it, if youhave the fortuitousness or the
sticktuitiveness, whatever youwanna call it, to, to stay with
that, um, I think it sayssomething about how you become a
successful agency owner.
(03:04):
It's hard.
It's really hard.
You don't make a lot of moneyand you make a lot of mistakes
along the way.
But the reward on the otherside, if you can get through it,
is pretty cool I think.
I mean, and I would say most ofthe agency owners I know, we all
have our days where we're like,why do I do this to myself?
But overall, we all do itbecause there's a lot of reward
on the other side, so it's worthit.
Russel (03:24):
Yes.
Clearly we, we've got, we'vecoined a new term here,
sticktuitiveness, and that is akey ingredient to agency
success.
I'm curious if you have anyperspective on this.
Is that unique to agency owners?
Or are there many, is thereother business genres out the
world where they'd all kind ofsay the same thing?
I live and play in the agencyspace all day, so I, I wouldn't
say I would know, but I don'tknow.
(03:45):
Is that unique to agency owners?
Maryann (03:46):
I don't think it's unique to agency owners.
I think it's unique to theentrepreneurial spirit, right?
I came from tech, so before Ihad an agency, I was working in
the tech space and you reallyhave to have some thick skin to
work in tech and especiallyback, I was in the pre.com
bubble era, and when you got tothe bubble and the bubble burst,
it was very, very hard.
(04:06):
I would say that if you are anagency owner, it means you're an
entrepreneur.
That entrepreneurial spiritexists in a lot of different
sectors.
How you get through it dependson what your love is.
I have one client that I workwith who has a bakery and he
loves baking.
He has a passion for baking, andhis job is really hard.
He's up at 11 o'clock at night,the night before to bake enough
(04:29):
product for the next day, evenwith his whole team there.
But he loves what he does and sothat sticktoitiveness is what
has kept him going for over 30years.
Different space, but same sortof gut instinct.
Russel (04:41):
I love that.
We're gonna circle back.
I imagine that's gonna have somethreads throughout our
conversation today.
But real, real quick, if youdon't mind, just do a quick
intro for your business.
What do you do and who do you doit for?
Maryann (04:51):
I am a digital marketer and have been one for a very
long time.
My company is 108 DegreesDigital Marketing.
I'm located in Southern NewHampshire.
My team is virtual, so we're allover the country.
Primarily, 80% of our businessis email marketing, so I would
say a hundred percent of ourclients are in, use email for
something.
But 80% of what we do is basedon email.
The rest of what we do isleveraging digital marketing
(05:13):
channels to help make ourclients successful.
Whether that is social media orsome type of sales enablement
program, we do some brand work.
But anything that in the digitalspace that helps our clients to
find success in sales, marketingand branding.
Russel (05:28):
Very important work.
I'm guessing you're a bigproponent of email.
Maryann (05:31):
Yes.
Here's the thing.
I've had this agency or been,you know, started as a
consultancy and then moved intothe agency space over 20 years
ago.
There wasn't a lot of emailthen.
I was doing it back then, but ifI tried to be an email agency
back in 2002, I would've beenvery, very hungry a lot.
We didn't even have LinkedInback then.
So email was always a componentof what we did.
Russel (05:50):
Hotmail.
Maryann (05:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, you had Hotmail.
I joke with, um, the, a lot ofthe Mailchimp team when I'm
talking to them, like if youremember the days, if you're old
enough to remember hearingyou've got mail, I was one of
the people sending it.
That's how long I've been doingemail.
It was a different model backthen certainly, but it was
always something that in abusiness to business market was
essential.
So I really enjoyed it, but Icould never make it my business.
(06:15):
Back in the early aughts havinga digital agency meant you were
building websites you werehelping with branding.
We were still doing print backthen.
We were doing business cards andflyers because there was no such
thing as just a digital agency.
You had to do everything.
That's where we started, wheremy roots were.
Today, I'm really happy to saywe concentrate a lot on email
because it is, for our clients,the most vital channel that they
(06:38):
need for growth.
And so we wanna focus on that.
We wanna get them the ROI andemail gets you the ROI.
Russel (06:43):
Chronologically, we're gonna bounce around here for a
minute, but got a good sense ofkind of your experience and how
you were coming up in the worldfrom what you just shared.
Young Maryann.
What were her goals, hopes, anddreams in the world?
Maryann (06:54):
Oh, she had no idea.
She wanted to be an attorneyand, and I find it really funny
because I have a lot of friendstoday that are attorneys as well
as some clients that areattorneys, and I did not miss my
calling.
That is not the career path forme.
God bless them, that they dowhat they do.
I could never do it.
I was a political science majorin college.
I was gonna go to law school andthen I took like my first
(07:15):
pre-law class, probably myjunior year.
Russel (07:17):
So you went really, you really went down that path.
That wasn't just like a, I'mgonna be a fireman, and then,
you know, by high school you'relike, you, you get rid of that.
You went there.
Maryann (07:25):
Oh yeah, I was, I was all in.
Finally qualified, like had allthe pre-quals done so I could
take my first pre-law class myjunior year in college.
I took it, and this is veryearly days of computer, right?
'Cause I'm old, so you're stilllooking stuff up in, in law
books like in the library at 11o'clock at night.
I thought, oh my God, I cannotdo this for the rest of my life.
And it was a real crisis ofconscious because I, here I am,
(07:47):
three years into my degree.
I have no idea now what I'mgoing to do.
I'm gonna graduate with thisdegree in political science.
What am I gonna do with it?
Hindsight 2020, right?
If I could go back again knowingwhat I know now, it probably
would've either been like acomputer science major because
that would lead you into thetech space.
I'm a terrible coder.
I can code, but I'm terrible atit.
But like it would've given methe background for the tech
space that I worked in.
(08:07):
Or else maybe something likebehavioral economics or
something like that.
Something that's like business,but also psychology.
'Cause that's really where a lotof marketing today lands, is
somewhere between business andpsychology.
We have a little bit of art towhat we do.
We have a little bit of scienceto what we do.
But I mean, somehow it workedout.
Russel (08:24):
My kids like to say, no regerts.
How did you pivot from there?
Did you just ride the poli scidegree and then, you know, get
into the fields you probablysounds like you wish you
would've gotten into?
How'd you parlay that experienceinto the path you eventually
went on?
Maryann (08:37):
Yeah, so my parents were so thrilled when I
graduated after four years ofcollege and four years of paying
tuition for me to become anexecutive admin, no, wait,
sorry, receptionist at atranslation company.
I had a dual major ininternational affairs, so I
thought, okay, well maybe I'lljust go into like the
international business spaceinstead.
I kind of, sort of wanderedaround until I bumped into a
(08:58):
great marketing job.
My background, like I polipolitical science is a lot of
communication, a lot of writingwork.
I knew I was good at that.
I knew I could do that.
I grew up while my parents werelike very traditional, like my
dad was an engineer, my mom wasa nurse.
Worked their jobs.
The rest of my family were allentrepreneurs.
They all had their ownbusinesses.
I had an uncle that had an autoparts store, I had a cousin in
the jewelry business.
The rest of the family was allvery entrepreneurial so I was
(09:20):
never afraid of it.
When I saw marketing, I had beenin sales, I had worked in these
businesses growing up, so I knewhow to sell things.
I was like, okay, I guess, Iguess I can do marketing.
I have all the skill sets theyseem to wanna have, so why not?
I tried that job and discoveredthat, wow, I'm, not only do I
really like this, but I'm goodat it.
One marketing job led to thenext, led to the next until I
was working in tech and I reallyloved the tech space.
(09:41):
I've always been a tech geek.
So, um, as you can, I don't knowif you can see my little Apple
computer behind me.
Russel (09:47):
Oh, yeah.
What is that?
I know it's an old computer,but, uh, what do they call
those?
Maryann (09:51):
That's a Mac plus.
That's like one of the originalMac Pluses from like 1987 or
something like that it's reallyold.
Russel (09:57):
And does it work?
Maryann (09:58):
Yes it does.
Russel (09:59):
Is that like what you can play Oregon Trail on, like
the old school version of OregonTrail?
Maryann (10:03):
Yeah, I, I only have QuarkXpress and PageMaker
because that's the world that Ilived in on it.
To date myself, I did use thatcomputer, that actual computer
has followed me.
My father gave it to me when webought a house.
He was like, I can finally getthis out of my attic here.
So it's been following mearound.
Russel (10:20):
That's awesome.
What a great antique.
Maryann (10:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks.
'cause I used that in college,but it's okay.
Antique is fine.
Russel (10:30):
Sorry.
No, there, There was nopreconceived notions of, of
trying to date anything there.
Maryann (10:34):
No, it's good.
I'm an old lady in the newspace.
I think that's one of theexciting things about having my
own agency is that I do have tostay up to speed on technology
and changes and culture and allof that, and it, it does help to
give me the perspective.
I know where I came from but itkeeps me, in some ways, young.
My kids wouldn't say so, but insome ways it keeps me young
because it keeps me up to speedwith, with where we are today
(10:56):
and where our world is.
I can't get stuck in the pastbecause I can't do my job on
that.
Russel (11:00):
Photoshop won't run on, uh, an old uh, um, Mac plus, so
that's fair.
Maryann (11:05):
Unfortunately no, no.
Getting internet on that's alittle bit rough too, but.
Russel (11:10):
I totally get it.
Walk us up to the point whereyou actually decided or I guess
didn't decide for that matter,that you know, you were gonna
end up in this path to runningan agency?
Maryann (11:19):
My unintentional business started, um, when I was
in technology and I'd beenworking in tech for a while and
I was six months pregnant withmy first child and I was laid
off.
Russel (11:30):
Ouch.
Maryann (11:30):
And the funny thing was in every other layoff, and I'd
been through a lot, right?
It's in tech.
There were layoffs every sixmonths.
I was used to differentcompanies being laid off, but I
was always the one that gotstuck staying there doing the
work of all the people who hadleft, they'd just be like, okay,
all of this work now lands onyour desk, go ahead and get it
done in the same timeframe aswhen we had four people doing
it.
Now in hindsight, I realize theytook pity on me by letting me go
(11:52):
because God knows I would nothave survived another layer of
that with being six monthspregnant.
But I was laid off and I went onjob interviews.
Nobody's hiring you.
I don't care, HR can saywhatever they want, the laws of
the state can say whatever theywant.
You walk into an interview sixmonths pregnant, you're not
getting the job, you're notgetting an offer.
That was the tech world then.
That is the tech world now.
Russel (12:13):
One is, man.
I don't even understand,probably an 10, nth degree of
what you're, what you were goingthrough in that.
But I mean, was that not like adevastating, just to be on the
cusp of, I think you, think yousaid your first child, and
having to look for a job, not tomention all the other things in
life that you have to bethinking about and planning?
I imagine there's gotta beensome crazy emotions going on.
Maryann (12:33):
It was rough.
The irony was that not few weeksbefore that, my supervisor had
brought me into her office andsaid I've been at this company
for over a decade.
I had my kids while I was here.
I want you to know that if youwanna come back here I will have
a place for you.
We will figure out how to makethis work for you.
I was feeling like very securebecause she had, she got laid
off too, and it was absolutelydevastating for her.
(12:53):
She had been there for so long.
It was hard.
But also it's when a doorcloses, a window opens, right?
That was the opportunity for meto reassess and say, what do I
really want?
I still knew I wanted a career.
I was never one of those peoplethat said, well, once I have
kids, I'll just be home for afew years.
But I didn't know how I wasgonna make it work.
My parents were wonderful,helping to take care of my kids
when they were younger, but theyweren't like full-time
(13:13):
babysitters.
Daycare is expensive.
How was I going to make it work?
I guess what happened was, um, Iinitially just started doing a
little bit of consulting'cause Iwas pretty pregnant.
There was only so much I coulddo.
So I started doing consulting.
I knew a lot of small businessesin the area and I poked around
at that.
After my daughter was born, Ihad a great opportunity with
Boston University.
I had, um, some colleagues thatwere working there and they
(13:35):
invited me in.
I had a friend in a similarsituation, she was pregnant with
her first child and she's like,they're gonna bring in somebody
to replace me and I don't wannaget pushed out of my job.
And I said, well, I'll come inand replace you and I'm not
gonna push you outta your job.
I'll come in, I'll do the stintand I'll leave.
I did that twice for her, withher two kids, and that really
helped to build my consultingbusiness and helped to build my
ability to consult in atechnical area.
(13:56):
I was able to settle myself in,okay, I'm going to be a
consultant.
This is what I'm going to do.
At least that's what I thoughtback then.
But you know, things change.
Russel (14:06):
Going back to this kind of accidental approach that we
were talking to in thebeginning, that this is also
very common in the path we gofrom, I need some income
replacement, that starts to geta little more serious, and then
there's the moment where, okay,now I'm gonna run a business and
this isn't just a, an interimthing or just a get me through
this phase or anything likethat.
(14:26):
Was there a specific day youwoke up and that that was the
case?
Maryann (14:30):
I dunno if there was a specific day, but so Kelly, who
works with me, um, she's my leadwriter.
She's our brand voice person.
She was about a year behind mein having the first kid.
She and I had actually workedtogether in one of my very early
marketing jobs, one of her veryearly marketing jobs, and we
worked together sporadically andthen we kinda went off in
different directions and she andI were connected through a
mutual friend.
She was in a similar spot andshe said, I think I'm just gonna
(14:52):
have to consult for a while, butlike, I'm a copywriter.
There's only so much that I cando.
If I had more resources maybe Icould get some bigger gigs, and
I was thinking I'm doingwriting, but I'm trying to also
do all these other things at thesame time.
If I had a writer I could leanon, that would be great.
Through her and several otheropportunities that came up, I
realized that if I assemble ateam.
(15:12):
Now there's opportunity for moretypes of work and flexibility
and skill.
I don't have to be the one theycall every single time for every
single thing.
I can have some people to leanon.
It grew organically from that,as I think a lot of these types
of businesses do.
A client calls you and says, canyou do fill in the blank?
Your immediate answer is, ofcourse, of course.
Then you hang up the phone andgo, how am I gonna do this?
Started doing that in 2005,2006, about then, and really
(15:36):
started to expand the growthfrom there.
It was really like, necessity isthe mother of invention.
It was just like that's just howthings were evolving.
I was just moving along with thepace of the business.
Having worked in tech, that'snormal, right?
You pivot all the time in tech,oh, the audience wants this, the
customer's looking for that.
The investors wanna see this,that, or the other thing.
Pivot.
(15:56):
You just pivot.
Russel (15:56):
Love it.
I mean, are you even an agencyowner if you have not said that
to yourself at one point in yourjourney of, oh crap, what did I
just sell?
Maryann (16:04):
Yeah.
I think that's, that's how weall get into this, right?
Because otherwise we'd all justbe individual consultants with
one individual skillset, youknow?
It's that I sold a thing and nowI have to figure out how to make
a thing.
Okay, I guess I'm making a thingnow.
But that's the entrepreneurialspirit, right?
That's the thing that you see inother industries where you know
you have someone that owns abusiness who needs something,
(16:25):
they make the thing, then theyturn around and patent it, and
then now that becomes theirmillion dollar idea and not the
original business they wererunning.
Russel (16:31):
I've often asked myself this question of going back to
that notion like could you evenstart an agency with a very
determined plan and a verydetermined path and make that
work out?
Or are all these little momentsthat are so common, just part of
exploring this just very, verydynamic, very changing, very
evolving world of marketing andthis is just gotta be part of
(16:52):
the lessons learned?
Maryann (16:53):
I think you could start with the plan.
Just really don't be too closeto it.
A plan is never a bad thingbecause it gives you, a starting
round, but it's not gonna bethat.
If I was, you know, 20 yearsago, looking forward to where I
am today, there's no way Iwould've predicted this.
There's no way I would predictwhat my business is or what I do
or how it works, because notonly does the world change, but
(17:15):
I change.
And my team has changed and we,we've gotta evolve with that.
You have to move with what youcan do.
That was actually one of thehard parts of my business is in
the very early days, we builtwebsites.
I had come from a background inUI design and, and I did a lot
of that.
I loved building websites.
It was fun.
It was very rewarding.
But there came a point where itwasn't profitable anymore
(17:36):
because I had to manage twoteams.
I had a creative team that wasdoing, brand and copy and email
and social and things like that.
Then I had a development teamwho was running web dev and
building schemas and databasesand UIs and all of these other
things.
And while I love that world, umand I think I'm okay at it.
I don't know.
You win awards, people go, oh,you're great at this.
(17:57):
People keep coming back to youand giving you money for more
websites, so you must be prettygood at it.
But I couldn't do both.
I had to pick a team and theonly way for me to do both
would've been massive expansionto the business, and that's not
the business I wanted to run.
I really like having a small,tight, elite team who is all
very clearly well directed anddoesn't require a lot of
supervision.
That would've been the opposite.
(18:17):
That's not the agency I wantedto have and so I had to sort of
like cut off that part of mybusiness and say goodbye to it.
It's always been hard to dothat, something like that, but
that's also, as an entrepreneur,like you understand this is the
pivot I have to make, even if ithurts a little bit.
Financially, initially it hurt alittle bit too because we made a
good amount of money fromwebsites, but I had to get rid
of it.
Today I am thrilled that I did.
Russel (18:39):
It's interesting.
I'm sure these are concepts thatI bring up, but I think it
always comes back to thefundamentals is one, I've never
heard someone go down a routetowards better positioning, more
refinement of what they do intheir service line that
regretted it, right?
To your point, there's some painpoints early on in that process
from a revenue perspective oreven a passion perspective.
That's something you're good andcapable of, but it, but it
(18:59):
doesn't necessarily make sensein the long run.
I, I, I love the, the couplethings there just to pull out
even from that, of, reallythinking about it like that, is
it, you're running separatebusinesses.
Just because it's under the samebusiness, and when you talk
about websites versus emailmarketing and that stuff, as
you're pointing out, it's aseparate business line.
You have a whole nother skillsand abilities to really refine
the process for one that you dothe other.
(19:19):
We cannot fool ourselves intothinking just because it's under
one EIN number that it's notactually separate businesses.
Really cool that you saw thatand, and made that pivot because
again, sounds like it's workedout.
After that initial pain point oflosing that revenue, did it,
were you able to somewhatquickly say, gosh, this was
smartest move I've ever made, orthis impacted the business in a
(19:41):
significant way?
Maryann (19:41):
I didn't pivot so dramatically that I never
touched a website again.
The fact is that I had beenbuilding websites for a long
time.
I had a lot of friends in theweb dev space, so I was able to
back out by partnering with someof these organizations that I
had established relationshipswith.
It was harsher on a financialperspective than it was on a
agency progressive.
(20:02):
progression stance, right?
Because we could still workclosely with development to make
sure that the things that weneeded done could get done.
That they could get on time,done on, on time and on budget
as our clients would need it.
We could still do our jobs.
We still had enough touch tothat, but I didn't have to
myself manage the team.
I didn't have to split mymanagement, my, my PM teams into
different resources.
(20:22):
We could stay focused on onething.
That transition was easierbecause of partnerships and I
really think that I know a lotof, I would say most of the
agency owners that I know, weare all so unique and specific
in what we do.
We never see each other ascompetition.
Even, I work with Mailchimp alot, and so I'm very tight with
some of the, the other Mailchimppartners.
We talk every day on Slack.
We're all really good friendswith each other.
(20:43):
We'll just all get together andlike have a chat and have Zoom
meetings together.
None of us see each other ascompetition.
We all see the differences inwhat we do, and I think that for
agencies, one of the realessential keys to success is
realizing you're not an islandand you don't need to be an
island.
You can find other agencies whocompliment what you do or who
might even seem to be in exactlythe same space you're in.
It doesn't mean you'recompetition because not
(21:04):
everyone's a fit for everyclient.
If somebody comes to me orthey're a client and they need
something and I can't do it forthem, I wanna send them to a
resource that I trust.
Having those agencypartnerships, I think, is really
key to finding the success,finding the pivots that you can
make without devastatingyourself completely financially
or psychologically when you haveto do it.
Russel (21:23):
That's a great reminder.
And I get it, I empathizesometimes when we might be in
more in the struggling phase ofthings.
We just wanna grab what we canso we can feed the beast and
keep food on the table, howeverwe're looking at that.
But the more we can get intothat realm, I think that you're
sharing there, of partnershipsand focusing on what we do best,
then that's gonna be a betterpath for the long run.
Speaking of which, what youdropped there, and I wanna spend
(21:44):
a good amount of time talkingabout this'cause I, I think it
sounds like it's been reallypivotal in your business, is
that, is the Mailchimp piece.
Talk us a little bit throughabout that journey and that
process of how this became abig, I don't know what even the
word is, a big point of light,with you and your business.
Maryann (21:58):
First, let me start by saying that officially my agency
is platform agnostic.
We have clients that use alltypes of email platforms.
We will use whatever platform aclient is coming to us with
because we are not gonna forceyou to change your business
model or your processes or yourtech stack just to work with us.
That said, there are, for the,the clients that we serve in the
(22:18):
small business, nonprofit andmid-market space and even higher
ed.
For those clients, very oftenMailchimp is a good fit.
If they come to us with nothingand they don't have a
preference, we're gonna directthem to Mailchimp first to take
a look at it because usuallyit's price competitive for what
they want.
Um, so I've been doing emailssince like the late nineties,
right?
As my agency is growing up inthe early and mid aughts I'm
(22:40):
using every email program thatcomes out.
I probably started usingMailchimp back in about 2008, I
wanna say for clients and fordifferent projects.
But it was one of manyplatforms.
It very clearly rose to beingone of the largest providers
that's out there.
We spent time in it because itwas a lot a lot of clients
needed it.
A lot of clients used it.
Somewhere around the middleteens they started an experts
(23:03):
program, so they were trying toget agencies on board.
You know how software is like,you see the demo, you see the
YouTube video, and you're like,oh, that's easy.
I can do it.
Anybody can do that.
Sometimes you can if you're realtech savvy.
But also if you're really busyas a business owner, it doesn't
matter how user friendly thatpiece of software is, that's not
where your time is best spent,and you need to hire somebody
who can do that for you so thatyour time can be spent on the
(23:24):
things that really make yourbusiness money.
Mailchimp was starting thisexperts directory and they said
to me, hey, would you like to bepart of it?
I said, sure.
You know how our business nameis 108 Degrees?
When they built the directory,it was alphabetical.
Needless to say.
Russel (23:37):
Oh, oh.
A very practical, functionalbusiness name.
I love a good story like that.
Maryann (23:43):
That's the art and science behind our, our brand.
Back in the day, alphabeticalwas still a thing.
We were like at the top of thelist.
There also weren't a lot of uson the list at the time.
If there were 50 of us, maybethat was it.
I was part of that program andI'd get referrals and would work
with it.
The real pivot point came rightaround the pandemic actually,
because they launched this,Mailchimp and co partner program
(24:04):
and it was really dedicatedtowards creating success for
agencies and freelancers whowere leveraging Mailchimp for
their clients.
It was a wonderful opportunity.
It came right at the time wherewe all got locked down and stuck
on our houses and couldn't gonetworking anymore and couldn't
go see anybody anymore.
The community that was builtfrom that are some of the same
agencies that I, andfreelancers, that I still am
(24:26):
friends with today.
For the last five years we'vehad this ongoing online
relationship, sometimes inperson.
They did a lot to createcommunity for us and there's not
a lot of software that doesthat.
For us, it created theopportunity, first of all, for
me to get to know a lot ofpeople inside of Mailchimp or
what's now Intuit, Mailchimp,and to be very tied to that
(24:46):
piece of software because of thecommunity aspects of it.
Again, if you come to me andyou're already using something
else, that's totally fine, butif you don't have anything it's
a no brainer for me.
Why would I make it harder formy team?
We all know how to use it.
It's a community.
I know product managers atMailchimp.
If you are having a problemintegrating your CRM with mail,
with your email system, and Ican't figure it out, I have
(25:07):
great resources there that I cango to with an email who will get
me an answer because that's theconnection that I can have to
the company.
Russel (25:14):
The tip of the spear can be something very specific, like
a tool or something thatotherwise gets you, gets you
credibility in the marketplace.
It doesn't mean you're limitedto that tip of the spear, you
know, in terms of beingMailchimp.
People are still gonna hear youtalk about email marketing, even
if it's under the guise of, ofMailchimp.
But they're gonna ask well, Idon't wanna do Mailchimp, but
you sound like an expert atemail marketing, so can we use
(25:35):
my tool I think that notionsometimes that might, what I
hear sometimes, people might befearful of the limitation factor
of positioning, but that you canuse something very specific or
like HubSpot you mentioned, andthen it doesn't have to define
the entirety of what you do as abusiness or, or the tools you
use.
One thing I do want to pull out,'cause it it, you know what it
sounds like there is that youdidn't just sign up for a thing
(25:56):
and get your name in adirectory, that you actually
made a significant investment intime, energy, resources to
leverage this positioningplatform credibility and
expertise.
Maryann (26:06):
Okay, so let me way back to like, I'm old, right?
I've been sending email for areally long time, um, which
makes it a little bit easier onthe learning curve side when
they start, you know,certification programs and
things like that.
Sometimes it's harder becauseI'm like, well, I've been doing
it like this for 20 years.
What do you mean that's thewrong way to do it?
But for the most part, gettingthe certifications to be a pro
partner i, have told my teamknow, I like, go get all the
(26:29):
certificates you can get.
I always encourage with my team,like, if you wanna go get a
certificate, that's fine.
I'll pay for your certificate.
Because I want you to have thoseskill sets.
I want you to have thatcapability.
On our end it was there's likethree or four courses.
There's three required, fouroption.
The fourth is optional.
Every time they come out with anew one or they come up with an
update I'm always like the firstone to jump in and get it
because I do feel as thoughIntuit, Mailchimp does a great
(26:51):
job with, their certification isnot just, do you know how to use
the software?
It is also, here's a real lifesituation with a client who has
a need.
How will you solve this problemfor them?
You know, some of it is asoftware solution, but some of
it is also understandingmarketing strategy and how you
should about it in order to.
Get them to their goal.
(27:11):
I really liked that aspect oftheir training.
I thought it was very wellthought out, and that's why like
I, there's not a lot of us thathave pro partner certification.
I think it was maybe like 150 or200 of us, like globally.
I respect that.
It's not easy.
I'll tell you honestly, most ofus had to take that test more
than once to pass it.
So, um, and that's with all theexperience that we have because
(27:32):
sometimes there's more than oneanswer to a question.
The process was not incrediblydifficult, but the process was
definitely one that requiredsome effort and it, but it was
very reasonable.
Uh, you know, We do othercertifications as well, for
Google and other tools that weuse.
It doesn't hurt to polish theskills, right?
I don't think that having thecertification makes you great,
but I think that if you are goodat what you do, you're not
(27:54):
afraid to take the time and getthe certification because it's
worth it.
Russel (27:58):
You know, Any smart, capable person out there can
probably, if they wanna put inthe time to get the
certification they can do that.
But I think it's far more whatI'm pulling away and hearing you
say, it's the ethos around thatthis is R&D, this is part of my
knowledge generation that I wantto continue to have, but even
just.
I didn't just sign up and makeit happen.
I think it's the leverage in,in, in terms of I get the sense
(28:18):
that you're out there speakingon the circuit, you're getting
pulled in as an expert inothers, you're engaging in the
community, networking and allthe other things that actually
make that far more valuable thanthe test and the certification
itself is what I'm hearing.
Correct any part of that if I'mmissing any part of the story.
Maryann (28:33):
It's really about, you know, committing yourself,
right?
Once we made the commitment,once we got rid of the, um, web
dev part of our business andsaid, okay, we're all in on
email, we're all in on brand,we're all in on sales
enablement, content development.
This is what we do really well.
This is what we love to do, um,and this is what we can do at a
reasonable, affordable price forour clients in the small to mid
(28:54):
size business space.
Because you have to thinkpricing, like we're not dealing
with enterprise brands with likeunlimited budgets, so we have to
be conscious of what our clientscan and should spend based on
their market and their reach andtheir growth potential.
Having the ability to go all inand having tools and companies
in that space that support thateffort is, is really key to
(29:15):
being able to be successful atit.
Russel (29:17):
Yes.
And that's what I wanna makesure that the underlying
takeaway is there is and I getit, and I think we've all been
there as business owners thatsometimes we hope and think and
want there to be some silverbullets out there, and that the
reality is they just don'texist.
There's nothing out there thatcan make your business be wildly
successful that you sign up forand write a check or take a
test.
That it's far more about thatinvestment in that effort to, to
(29:38):
actually make it pay off, whichsounds like that's clearly the
case of, that you've, you'vemade inside your business.
One other thing I certainlywanna come back to, and I know
it's important for you, is justdoing good work in the world and
mission-driven work, however youwant to kinda label that.
Why is that important to you?
And maybe a secondary questionis just how do you balance doing
good work for good companieslike that, but also keeping your
(30:02):
eye on the bottom line andmaking sure the business stays
healthy?
Maryann (30:04):
It's not easy some days and there's a lot of times we go
over budget, but I just livewith it and so I just take the
hit.
Lemme talk internally first,about our culture right.
So, um, I started this businessobviously when I was dealing
with the type of employmentproblems that typically only
women deal with.
When my company started toorganically grow, I didn't
intentionally only hire women,but it seemed like the most
(30:26):
qualified candidates were oftenwomen.
The ones that stayed with we,with me longest were often
women.
Some were moms, some werecaregivers for the elderly.
Some were foster parents.
Some were just like very busyyoung singles trying to figure
out their destinies.
In all cases, I found thesewomen who synced with the team,
who were like fiercelyindependent, very
(30:47):
entrepreneurial, and who reallywanted to get up every day and
love what they do.
Their synergy together wasfantastic.
Internally, we created a culturethat is, one where we are very
team-based, very supportive ofeach other, very open
communication.
So then as we go out and we dealwith clients understanding that
clients have budgets and clientshave needs, and what can we do
(31:09):
within the time allotted, withinthe space allotted to, to do
what's best for them.
Choosing clients is reallyimportant.
We are a small group.
I cannot take every singleperson that knocks on our door.
Nor would I.
I want people that we are theright fit for, that my team is
the right fit for.
There have been mistakes in thepast.
I'm not gonna say I alwayschoose perfectly.
But you know, we have a fairlygood system now for sniffing
(31:31):
them out.
If anytime we have had someclients who have been
disrespectful to my teammembers.
They don't treat the team thesame way they treat me.
That is a deal breaker for me.
You give them the same respectyou give, just because I own the
agency doesn't mean I'm the onlyone that deserves your respect.
Creating that culture.
When it comes to get doing good,like we're excited to do the
work for our clients.
We also have a culture of tryingto take on a certain percentage
(31:53):
of nonprofit clients, um, which,you know, we provide them with,
you know, significant discounts.
A lot of like extra consultingtime on the side.
We try to find, um, clientswhose nonprofits speak to our
passions whenever possible.
We do a lot in public health.
We do some like children's basedcharities.
We try to work with, uh, thetypes of nonprofit organizations
(32:15):
that we know will make adifference and that we see that
the work that we do is not justgonna be a bottom line cost for
them, but is actually gonna helpmove the needle for them.
If I think that what it's goingto cost them, even at a
discounted rate, is not going toreally help them, we won't take
the work, but I, I'll refer themto anyone that I think can help.
We wanna use our powers forgood, right?
And not that helping smallbusinesses isn't good, like it
(32:36):
absolutely is.
We know that there are clientsthat we work with who have been
able to employ their teams andkeep people employed, especially
through the pandemic, becausethe work we were doing was
generating business for them.
That's important and, and wetake that seriously and we
understand the vital nature itis of what we do and the cost of
it, um, for our clients.
Then we try to give back inthose ways that we can, and we
(32:57):
always support the nonprofitsthat we're working with as well
in any way that we can.
Russel (33:01):
That's beautiful and wonderful.
This is honestly, quite honestlywhy I do what I do, is to hear
stories like that.
Small businesses helping otherbusinesses and, um, all try to
be better and do better thingsin this world.
I'm glad you're doing that greatwork.
Speaking to that end of justwhere you're looking at the
future, what's the next 10 yearslook like or longer?
Maryann (33:20):
Wow.
I mean, if you asked me 10 yearsago to predict now, I wouldn't
have been able to.
We had a whole big blip around2020 in the middle that no one
saw coming.
So it's hard for me to say whatthe next 10 years is.
I think that the more honed inwe get on, on, um, the work that
we're doing, the more focused weget with particular verticals.
I wanna try to stay in thoseverticals more.
(33:41):
I really don't know.
You tell me, you're the agencyexpert.
What does a company my, likemine look like in 10 years?
Russel (33:46):
To your point, I think it can be really hard to
predict.
Just the rate at which digitalis taken off in the last 20 some
years, uh, and now in, instituteAI, and we just don't know.
I just don't think we canactually comprehend what that's
gonna look like.
People can throw out things likethe death of the browser or,
right, AI is gonna take overall.
I don't necessarily land inthose camps.
(34:08):
But we have to, obviously, we'veproven that we have to be
dynamic on where and how media Bwill be consumed and created and
all of those things.
I'm the last guy that probablypretends like I'm, when I want
to jump on the platform and sayI'll be a futurist in that.
But I think if we can learnanything from the last years,
it's, we gotta be dynamic, wegotta be prepared, and we have
to hone and sharpen ourexpertise.
(34:28):
Because it's, it's, it's thesame way.
I guess you could look at amedical field that we don't go
to a generalist doctor anymoreto get our, our knee surgery or
anything like that.
I think marketing will continueto refine itself in that way
that you need a team of expertson a variety of different
channels, platforms, andstrategies to actually pull off
marketing.
I guess you could say in thatsense, it's gonna require
(34:49):
agencies to become all the moresmarter and ex, and, and
experts.
But need us all the more to makeit in this noisy marketplace of
a world.
Maryann (34:56):
It's true.
I will tell you one thing, Iwill predict that email will not
go away because I have beenhearing for 20 years how email
is dead and I am still making aliving at it and not a bad
living either.
I'm gonna go with, the one thingI know will still be there is
email.
I think we will probably stillbe doing it.
I'd be surprised, very surprisedif we weren't.
But you know, as you said, Ithink the world pivots too
(35:17):
quickly and changes too fast,and there's no way to know what
10 years from now looks like soI think it's just fun to enjoy
the ride.
Russel (35:24):
There you go.
Perfectly well said.
Last big question for you, and Ithink this ties in very nicely
to how our conversation started.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
I.
Maryann (35:33):
I think that the tenacity of an entrepreneur is
something they are born with,but I think that they are made
through the fire of thechallenges that they are faced
with.
If I had never been laid off, ifI had just had my job as my old
boss had predicted, I wouldprobably still be working
corporate marketing and tech 20years later, and I don't think
I'd be happier for it.
(35:54):
It was really tough at the time,but I'm glad that the challenge
happened and I think that we allhave to learn to embrace those
challenges and not be afraid ofthem.
Be wary so that you can prepare,but don't be afraid because if
you have the tenacity as anentrepreneur, you'll figure it
out.
Russel (36:09):
I'm glad you got laid off too.
Otherwise we wouldn't have hadthis wonderful conversation
today.
The first part of how you phrasethat, I'm gonna go pull that
quote, is that's probably themost poetic version of to
finding the difference answeringthis question.
I'm gonna go back and take alook at that, uh,'cause I think
it was pretty poetic There's noway I could try to re-say that,
but I'll pull it out for thefolks listening and we'll, we'll
(36:30):
make sure to include that on thesite for the podcast launch.
If people wanna know more about108 Degrees, where can they go?
Maryann (36:37):
You can find us on all the social platforms, not
TikTok.
Sorry, we don't, we don'tTikTok.
I'm not dancing for anybody.
YouTube, LinkedIn, uh,Instagram, Facebook.
You'll find us at 1 0 8 DegreesMarketing or visit our website
at www.108degrees.com.
We'd love to talk to you aboutyour email challenges and how
you can reach your audiencebetter.
Russel (36:56):
Love it.
Perfect.
There you go folks.
No dancing videos, but uh, we'lllive with that.
We'll take your email expertiseinstead.
Thank you so much Maryann, fortaking the time outta your
schedule today to just talkabout the power of positioning,
about going all in, about makingan investment, about doing good
work, creating a good culture.
So many great takeaways foreveryone today, and really
appreciate you taking the timeto share that with us.
Maryann (37:16):
Thank you for having me.
This was a lot of fun.
I really enjoyed it.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(37:38):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
We have some great clients and, and one of our, um,
(38:00):
I wouldn't say earliest clients,but kind of like before 2010,
early on clients was a womanowned software company, um, in
Southern New Hampshire wherethey were actually in the same
town as me.
I met them at a town event andwe had like this incredible, we
worked with them for sevenyears.
It was an amazing experience.
They were such smart women.
They are such smart women.
(38:20):
We basically marketed them sowell.
We put ourselves out of workbecause they reached a point
where they were ready to, youknow, get onto the next
challenge and, and it was, theysaid to me like, part of what
sold their company to the peoplethat bought it was the great
marketing that they had behindit.
I was like, darn, why did I dosuch a good job?
I really loved working withthem, but, um, but I was really
(38:42):
happy to make them successfuland I was really proud of
helping a woman-owned softwarecompany like find success in my
own state.
It's very rewarding because it,it's hard, you know, you face a
lot of challenges as a smallbusiness anyway, and as three
women, they really had a lot ofobstacles in their way, but they
did an amazing job and I washappy to be part of their story.
Russel (39:01):
Honestly, if you really probably broke it down, I think
if we were all being genuinelyand authentic about being
absolutely amazing at what wedo, we would always eventually
work ourselves out of a job asan agency.
And if we were staying in ourlane too, that might be another
element that would be importantto that process.
It sounds like you did, you didyour job.
Maryann (39:19):
My goal is for you to let go of me'cause you don't
need me anymore.
Welcome to An Agency Storypodcast where we share real
stories of marketing agencyowners from around the world.
From the excitement of startingup the first big sale, passion,
doubt, fear, freedom, and theemotional rollercoaster of
growth, hear it all on An AgencyStory podcast.
(00:24):
An Agency Story podcast ishosted by Russel Dubree,
successful agency owner with aneight figure exit turned
business coach.
Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel (00:41):
What does it really take to stand out in a crowded
marketing landscape?
Welcome to an agency storypodcast.
I'm your host, Russell.
It's not just a clever taglineor shiny certification, it's
about doing the work over manyyears and not just claiming
expertise, but investing in it.
That's exactly what today'sguest, Maryann Pfeiffer of 108
(01:02):
Degrees has done.
In this episode, you'll hear howMaryann evolved from an
accidental agency owner into aMailChimp pro partner, one of
just a few hundred globally, bydoubling down on the
fundamentals, building areputation through community,
and carving out a clear,profitable position rooted in
email marketing.
But more than that, she sharesthe honest journey behind the
(01:24):
scenes, the pivots, thetrade-offs, and the intentional
decisions that turn toconsulting gig.
Into a mission-driven agency,built on integrity and team
empowerment.
This episode is a reminder thatsustainable growth favors those
who go deep, not wide.
Enjoy the story.
From a temporary consulting gigto becoming one of Mailchimp's
(01:45):
top pro partners and built apowerhouse team of
entrepreneurial women looking tomake the world a better place,
our guest today is MaryannPfeiffer with 108 Degrees.
Welcome to the show today,Maryann.
Maryann (01:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Russel (01:58):
Very excited to have you as well.
We were just doing a pre-recordchat, and so we're gonna revisit
our, our, our conversation.
Maryann (02:06):
How we're all agency owners by accident.
Russel (02:08):
Yes.
I think I shared that I'm stilllooking for the first agency
owner that way back, once upon atime said, I'm gonna start an
agency someday and then that'show they went about their path,
which I don't think you're thatfirst use case for me.
Are you?
Maryann (02:21):
No, I am not.
I fell into this like everyoneelse, uh, you know, accidental
entrepreneur who didn't intendto start an agency.
Of all the agency owners that Iknow, and I know quite a few of
them, um, no one has started andsaid, this is what I'm gonna do.
We've all fallen into it or beendragged into it one way or
another.
And I think, honestly, it'sbecause it's really hard.
(02:43):
Those first couple of years areterrible for most of us.
They're long hours with littlepay, very difficult, very
arduous.
You learn a lot about yourself.
You learn a lot about whatyou're capable of.
If you stick with it, if youhave the fortuitousness or the
sticktuitiveness, whatever youwanna call it, to, to stay with
that, um, I think it sayssomething about how you become a
successful agency owner.
(03:04):
It's hard.
It's really hard.
You don't make a lot of moneyand you make a lot of mistakes
along the way.
But the reward on the otherside, if you can get through it,
is pretty cool I think.
I mean, and I would say most ofthe agency owners I know, we all
have our days where we're like,why do I do this to myself?
But overall, we all do itbecause there's a lot of reward
on the other side, so it's worthit.
Russel (03:24):
Yes.
Clearly we, we've got, we'vecoined a new term here,
sticktuitiveness, and that is akey ingredient to agency
success.
I'm curious if you have anyperspective on this.
Is that unique to agency owners?
Or are there many, is thereother business genres out the
world where they'd all kind ofsay the same thing?
I live and play in the agencyspace all day, so I, I wouldn't
say I would know, but I don'tknow.
(03:45):
Is that unique to agency owners?
Maryann (03:46):
I don't think it's unique to agency owners.
I think it's unique to theentrepreneurial spirit, right?
I came from tech, so before Ihad an agency, I was working in
the tech space and you reallyhave to have some thick skin to
work in tech and especiallyback, I was in the pre.com
bubble era, and when you got tothe bubble and the bubble burst,
it was very, very hard.
(04:06):
I would say that if you are anagency owner, it means you're an
entrepreneur.
That entrepreneurial spiritexists in a lot of different
sectors.
How you get through it dependson what your love is.
I have one client that I workwith who has a bakery and he
loves baking.
He has a passion for baking, andhis job is really hard.
He's up at 11 o'clock at night,the night before to bake enough
(04:29):
product for the next day, evenwith his whole team there.
But he loves what he does and sothat sticktoitiveness is what
has kept him going for over 30years.
Different space, but same sortof gut instinct.
Russel (04:41):
I love that.
We're gonna circle back.
I imagine that's gonna have somethreads throughout our
conversation today.
But real, real quick, if youdon't mind, just do a quick
intro for your business.
What do you do and who do you doit for?
Maryann (04:51):
I am a digital marketer and have been one for a very
long time.
My company is 108 DegreesDigital Marketing.
I'm located in Southern NewHampshire.
My team is virtual, so we're allover the country.
Primarily, 80% of our businessis email marketing, so I would
say a hundred percent of ourclients are in, use email for
something.
But 80% of what we do is basedon email.
The rest of what we do isleveraging digital marketing
(05:13):
channels to help make ourclients successful.
Whether that is social media orsome type of sales enablement
program, we do some brand work.
But anything that in the digitalspace that helps our clients to
find success in sales, marketingand branding.
Russel (05:28):
Very important work.
I'm guessing you're a bigproponent of email.
Maryann (05:31):
Yes.
Here's the thing.
I've had this agency or been,you know, started as a
consultancy and then moved intothe agency space over 20 years
ago.
There wasn't a lot of emailthen.
I was doing it back then, but ifI tried to be an email agency
back in 2002, I would've beenvery, very hungry a lot.
We didn't even have LinkedInback then.
So email was always a componentof what we did.
Russel (05:50):
Hotmail.
Maryann (05:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, you had Hotmail.
I joke with, um, the, a lot ofthe Mailchimp team when I'm
talking to them, like if youremember the days, if you're old
enough to remember hearingyou've got mail, I was one of
the people sending it.
That's how long I've been doingemail.
It was a different model backthen certainly, but it was
always something that in abusiness to business market was
essential.
So I really enjoyed it, but Icould never make it my business.
(06:15):
Back in the early aughts havinga digital agency meant you were
building websites you werehelping with branding.
We were still doing print backthen.
We were doing business cards andflyers because there was no such
thing as just a digital agency.
You had to do everything.
That's where we started, wheremy roots were.
Today, I'm really happy to saywe concentrate a lot on email
because it is, for our clients,the most vital channel that they
(06:38):
need for growth.
And so we wanna focus on that.
We wanna get them the ROI andemail gets you the ROI.
Russel (06:43):
Chronologically, we're gonna bounce around here for a
minute, but got a good sense ofkind of your experience and how
you were coming up in the worldfrom what you just shared.
Young Maryann.
What were her goals, hopes, anddreams in the world?
Maryann (06:54):
Oh, she had no idea.
She wanted to be an attorneyand, and I find it really funny
because I have a lot of friendstoday that are attorneys as well
as some clients that areattorneys, and I did not miss my
calling.
That is not the career path forme.
God bless them, that they dowhat they do.
I could never do it.
I was a political science majorin college.
I was gonna go to law school andthen I took like my first
(07:15):
pre-law class, probably myjunior year.
Russel (07:17):
So you went really, you really went down that path.
That wasn't just like a, I'mgonna be a fireman, and then,
you know, by high school you'relike, you, you get rid of that.
You went there.
Maryann (07:25):
Oh yeah, I was, I was all in.
Finally qualified, like had allthe pre-quals done so I could
take my first pre-law class myjunior year in college.
I took it, and this is veryearly days of computer, right?
'Cause I'm old, so you're stilllooking stuff up in, in law
books like in the library at 11o'clock at night.
I thought, oh my God, I cannotdo this for the rest of my life.
And it was a real crisis ofconscious because I, here I am,
(07:47):
three years into my degree.
I have no idea now what I'mgoing to do.
I'm gonna graduate with thisdegree in political science.
What am I gonna do with it?
Hindsight 2020, right?
If I could go back again knowingwhat I know now, it probably
would've either been like acomputer science major because
that would lead you into thetech space.
I'm a terrible coder.
I can code, but I'm terrible atit.
But like it would've given methe background for the tech
space that I worked in.
(08:07):
Or else maybe something likebehavioral economics or
something like that.
Something that's like business,but also psychology.
'Cause that's really where a lotof marketing today lands, is
somewhere between business andpsychology.
We have a little bit of art towhat we do.
We have a little bit of scienceto what we do.
But I mean, somehow it workedout.
Russel (08:24):
My kids like to say, no regerts.
How did you pivot from there?
Did you just ride the poli scidegree and then, you know, get
into the fields you probablysounds like you wish you
would've gotten into?
How'd you parlay that experienceinto the path you eventually
went on?
Maryann (08:37):
Yeah, so my parents were so thrilled when I
graduated after four years ofcollege and four years of paying
tuition for me to become anexecutive admin, no, wait,
sorry, receptionist at atranslation company.
I had a dual major ininternational affairs, so I
thought, okay, well maybe I'lljust go into like the
international business spaceinstead.
I kind of, sort of wanderedaround until I bumped into a
(08:58):
great marketing job.
My background, like I polipolitical science is a lot of
communication, a lot of writingwork.
I knew I was good at that.
I knew I could do that.
I grew up while my parents werelike very traditional, like my
dad was an engineer, my mom wasa nurse.
Worked their jobs.
The rest of my family were allentrepreneurs.
They all had their ownbusinesses.
I had an uncle that had an autoparts store, I had a cousin in
the jewelry business.
The rest of the family was allvery entrepreneurial so I was
(09:20):
never afraid of it.
When I saw marketing, I had beenin sales, I had worked in these
businesses growing up, so I knewhow to sell things.
I was like, okay, I guess, Iguess I can do marketing.
I have all the skill sets theyseem to wanna have, so why not?
I tried that job and discoveredthat, wow, I'm, not only do I
really like this, but I'm goodat it.
One marketing job led to thenext, led to the next until I
was working in tech and I reallyloved the tech space.
(09:41):
I've always been a tech geek.
So, um, as you can, I don't knowif you can see my little Apple
computer behind me.
Russel (09:47):
Oh, yeah.
What is that?
I know it's an old computer,but, uh, what do they call
those?
Maryann (09:51):
That's a Mac plus.
That's like one of the originalMac Pluses from like 1987 or
something like that it's reallyold.
Russel (09:57):
And does it work?
Maryann (09:58):
Yes it does.
Russel (09:59):
Is that like what you can play Oregon Trail on, like
the old school version of OregonTrail?
Maryann (10:03):
Yeah, I, I only have QuarkXpress and PageMaker
because that's the world that Ilived in on it.
To date myself, I did use thatcomputer, that actual computer
has followed me.
My father gave it to me when webought a house.
He was like, I can finally getthis out of my attic here.
So it's been following mearound.
Russel (10:20):
That's awesome.
What a great antique.
Maryann (10:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks.
'cause I used that in college,but it's okay.
Antique is fine.
Russel (10:30):
Sorry.
No, there, There was nopreconceived notions of, of
trying to date anything there.
Maryann (10:34):
No, it's good.
I'm an old lady in the newspace.
I think that's one of theexciting things about having my
own agency is that I do have tostay up to speed on technology
and changes and culture and allof that, and it, it does help to
give me the perspective.
I know where I came from but itkeeps me, in some ways, young.
My kids wouldn't say so, but insome ways it keeps me young
because it keeps me up to speedwith, with where we are today
(10:56):
and where our world is.
I can't get stuck in the pastbecause I can't do my job on
that.
Russel (11:00):
Photoshop won't run on, uh, an old uh, um, Mac plus, so
that's fair.
Maryann (11:05):
Unfortunately no, no.
Getting internet on that's alittle bit rough too, but.
Russel (11:10):
I totally get it.
Walk us up to the point whereyou actually decided or I guess
didn't decide for that matter,that you know, you were gonna
end up in this path to runningan agency?
Maryann (11:19):
My unintentional business started, um, when I was
in technology and I'd beenworking in tech for a while and
I was six months pregnant withmy first child and I was laid
off.
Russel (11:30):
Ouch.
Maryann (11:30):
And the funny thing was in every other layoff, and I'd
been through a lot, right?
It's in tech.
There were layoffs every sixmonths.
I was used to differentcompanies being laid off, but I
was always the one that gotstuck staying there doing the
work of all the people who hadleft, they'd just be like, okay,
all of this work now lands onyour desk, go ahead and get it
done in the same timeframe aswhen we had four people doing
it.
Now in hindsight, I realize theytook pity on me by letting me go
(11:52):
because God knows I would nothave survived another layer of
that with being six monthspregnant.
But I was laid off and I went onjob interviews.
Nobody's hiring you.
I don't care, HR can saywhatever they want, the laws of
the state can say whatever theywant.
You walk into an interview sixmonths pregnant, you're not
getting the job, you're notgetting an offer.
That was the tech world then.
That is the tech world now.
Russel (12:13):
One is, man.
I don't even understand,probably an 10, nth degree of
what you're, what you were goingthrough in that.
But I mean, was that not like adevastating, just to be on the
cusp of, I think you, think yousaid your first child, and
having to look for a job, not tomention all the other things in
life that you have to bethinking about and planning?
I imagine there's gotta beensome crazy emotions going on.
Maryann (12:33):
It was rough.
The irony was that not few weeksbefore that, my supervisor had
brought me into her office andsaid I've been at this company
for over a decade.
I had my kids while I was here.
I want you to know that if youwanna come back here I will have
a place for you.
We will figure out how to makethis work for you.
I was feeling like very securebecause she had, she got laid
off too, and it was absolutelydevastating for her.
(12:53):
She had been there for so long.
It was hard.
But also it's when a doorcloses, a window opens, right?
That was the opportunity for meto reassess and say, what do I
really want?
I still knew I wanted a career.
I was never one of those peoplethat said, well, once I have
kids, I'll just be home for afew years.
But I didn't know how I wasgonna make it work.
My parents were wonderful,helping to take care of my kids
when they were younger, but theyweren't like full-time
(13:13):
babysitters.
Daycare is expensive.
How was I going to make it work?
I guess what happened was, um, Iinitially just started doing a
little bit of consulting'cause Iwas pretty pregnant.
There was only so much I coulddo.
So I started doing consulting.
I knew a lot of small businessesin the area and I poked around
at that.
After my daughter was born, Ihad a great opportunity with
Boston University.
I had, um, some colleagues thatwere working there and they
(13:35):
invited me in.
I had a friend in a similarsituation, she was pregnant with
her first child and she's like,they're gonna bring in somebody
to replace me and I don't wannaget pushed out of my job.
And I said, well, I'll come inand replace you and I'm not
gonna push you outta your job.
I'll come in, I'll do the stintand I'll leave.
I did that twice for her, withher two kids, and that really
helped to build my consultingbusiness and helped to build my
ability to consult in atechnical area.
(13:56):
I was able to settle myself in,okay, I'm going to be a
consultant.
This is what I'm going to do.
At least that's what I thoughtback then.
But you know, things change.
Russel (14:06):
Going back to this kind of accidental approach that we
were talking to in thebeginning, that this is also
very common in the path we gofrom, I need some income
replacement, that starts to geta little more serious, and then
there's the moment where, okay,now I'm gonna run a business and
this isn't just a, an interimthing or just a get me through
this phase or anything likethat.
(14:26):
Was there a specific day youwoke up and that that was the
case?
Maryann (14:30):
I dunno if there was a specific day, but so Kelly, who
works with me, um, she's my leadwriter.
She's our brand voice person.
She was about a year behind mein having the first kid.
She and I had actually workedtogether in one of my very early
marketing jobs, one of her veryearly marketing jobs, and we
worked together sporadically andthen we kinda went off in
different directions and she andI were connected through a
mutual friend.
She was in a similar spot andshe said, I think I'm just gonna
(14:52):
have to consult for a while, butlike, I'm a copywriter.
There's only so much that I cando.
If I had more resources maybe Icould get some bigger gigs, and
I was thinking I'm doingwriting, but I'm trying to also
do all these other things at thesame time.
If I had a writer I could leanon, that would be great.
Through her and several otheropportunities that came up, I
realized that if I assemble ateam.
(15:12):
Now there's opportunity for moretypes of work and flexibility
and skill.
I don't have to be the one theycall every single time for every
single thing.
I can have some people to leanon.
It grew organically from that,as I think a lot of these types
of businesses do.
A client calls you and says, canyou do fill in the blank?
Your immediate answer is, ofcourse, of course.
Then you hang up the phone andgo, how am I gonna do this?
Started doing that in 2005,2006, about then, and really
(15:36):
started to expand the growthfrom there.
It was really like, necessity isthe mother of invention.
It was just like that's just howthings were evolving.
I was just moving along with thepace of the business.
Having worked in tech, that'snormal, right?
You pivot all the time in tech,oh, the audience wants this, the
customer's looking for that.
The investors wanna see this,that, or the other thing.
Pivot.
(15:56):
You just pivot.
Russel (15:56):
Love it.
I mean, are you even an agencyowner if you have not said that
to yourself at one point in yourjourney of, oh crap, what did I
just sell?
Maryann (16:04):
Yeah.
I think that's, that's how weall get into this, right?
Because otherwise we'd all justbe individual consultants with
one individual skillset, youknow?
It's that I sold a thing and nowI have to figure out how to make
a thing.
Okay, I guess I'm making a thingnow.
But that's the entrepreneurialspirit, right?
That's the thing that you see inother industries where you know
you have someone that owns abusiness who needs something,
(16:25):
they make the thing, then theyturn around and patent it, and
then now that becomes theirmillion dollar idea and not the
original business they wererunning.
Russel (16:31):
I've often asked myself this question of going back to
that notion like could you evenstart an agency with a very
determined plan and a verydetermined path and make that
work out?
Or are all these little momentsthat are so common, just part of
exploring this just very, verydynamic, very changing, very
evolving world of marketing andthis is just gotta be part of
(16:52):
the lessons learned?
Maryann (16:53):
I think you could start with the plan.
Just really don't be too closeto it.
A plan is never a bad thingbecause it gives you, a starting
round, but it's not gonna bethat.
If I was, you know, 20 yearsago, looking forward to where I
am today, there's no way Iwould've predicted this.
There's no way I would predictwhat my business is or what I do
or how it works, because notonly does the world change, but
(17:15):
I change.
And my team has changed and we,we've gotta evolve with that.
You have to move with what youcan do.
That was actually one of thehard parts of my business is in
the very early days, we builtwebsites.
I had come from a background inUI design and, and I did a lot
of that.
I loved building websites.
It was fun.
It was very rewarding.
But there came a point where itwasn't profitable anymore
(17:36):
because I had to manage twoteams.
I had a creative team that wasdoing, brand and copy and email
and social and things like that.
Then I had a development teamwho was running web dev and
building schemas and databasesand UIs and all of these other
things.
And while I love that world, umand I think I'm okay at it.
I don't know.
You win awards, people go, oh,you're great at this.
(17:57):
People keep coming back to youand giving you money for more
websites, so you must be prettygood at it.
But I couldn't do both.
I had to pick a team and theonly way for me to do both
would've been massive expansionto the business, and that's not
the business I wanted to run.
I really like having a small,tight, elite team who is all
very clearly well directed anddoesn't require a lot of
supervision.
That would've been the opposite.
(18:17):
That's not the agency I wantedto have and so I had to sort of
like cut off that part of mybusiness and say goodbye to it.
It's always been hard to dothat, something like that, but
that's also, as an entrepreneur,like you understand this is the
pivot I have to make, even if ithurts a little bit.
Financially, initially it hurt alittle bit too because we made a
good amount of money fromwebsites, but I had to get rid
of it.
Today I am thrilled that I did.
Russel (18:39):
It's interesting.
I'm sure these are concepts thatI bring up, but I think it
always comes back to thefundamentals is one, I've never
heard someone go down a routetowards better positioning, more
refinement of what they do intheir service line that
regretted it, right?
To your point, there's some painpoints early on in that process
from a revenue perspective oreven a passion perspective.
That's something you're good andcapable of, but it, but it
(18:59):
doesn't necessarily make sensein the long run.
I, I, I love the, the couplethings there just to pull out
even from that, of, reallythinking about it like that, is
it, you're running separatebusinesses.
Just because it's under the samebusiness, and when you talk
about websites versus emailmarketing and that stuff, as
you're pointing out, it's aseparate business line.
You have a whole nother skillsand abilities to really refine
the process for one that you dothe other.
(19:19):
We cannot fool ourselves intothinking just because it's under
one EIN number that it's notactually separate businesses.
Really cool that you saw thatand, and made that pivot because
again, sounds like it's workedout.
After that initial pain point oflosing that revenue, did it,
were you able to somewhatquickly say, gosh, this was
smartest move I've ever made, orthis impacted the business in a
(19:41):
significant way?
Maryann (19:41):
I didn't pivot so dramatically that I never
touched a website again.
The fact is that I had beenbuilding websites for a long
time.
I had a lot of friends in theweb dev space, so I was able to
back out by partnering with someof these organizations that I
had established relationshipswith.
It was harsher on a financialperspective than it was on a
agency progressive.
(20:02):
progression stance, right?
Because we could still workclosely with development to make
sure that the things that weneeded done could get done.
That they could get on time,done on, on time and on budget
as our clients would need it.
We could still do our jobs.
We still had enough touch tothat, but I didn't have to
myself manage the team.
I didn't have to split mymanagement, my, my PM teams into
different resources.
(20:22):
We could stay focused on onething.
That transition was easierbecause of partnerships and I
really think that I know a lotof, I would say most of the
agency owners that I know, weare all so unique and specific
in what we do.
We never see each other ascompetition.
Even, I work with Mailchimp alot, and so I'm very tight with
some of the, the other Mailchimppartners.
We talk every day on Slack.
We're all really good friendswith each other.
(20:43):
We'll just all get together andlike have a chat and have Zoom
meetings together.
None of us see each other ascompetition.
We all see the differences inwhat we do, and I think that for
agencies, one of the realessential keys to success is
realizing you're not an islandand you don't need to be an
island.
You can find other agencies whocompliment what you do or who
might even seem to be in exactlythe same space you're in.
It doesn't mean you'recompetition because not
(21:04):
everyone's a fit for everyclient.
If somebody comes to me orthey're a client and they need
something and I can't do it forthem, I wanna send them to a
resource that I trust.
Having those agencypartnerships, I think, is really
key to finding the success,finding the pivots that you can
make without devastatingyourself completely financially
or psychologically when you haveto do it.
Russel (21:23):
That's a great reminder.
And I get it, I empathizesometimes when we might be in
more in the struggling phase ofthings.
We just wanna grab what we canso we can feed the beast and
keep food on the table, howeverwe're looking at that.
But the more we can get intothat realm, I think that you're
sharing there, of partnershipsand focusing on what we do best,
then that's gonna be a betterpath for the long run.
Speaking of which, what youdropped there, and I wanna spend
(21:44):
a good amount of time talkingabout this'cause I, I think it
sounds like it's been reallypivotal in your business, is
that, is the Mailchimp piece.
Talk us a little bit throughabout that journey and that
process of how this became abig, I don't know what even the
word is, a big point of light,with you and your business.
Maryann (21:58):
First, let me start by saying that officially my agency
is platform agnostic.
We have clients that use alltypes of email platforms.
We will use whatever platform aclient is coming to us with
because we are not gonna forceyou to change your business
model or your processes or yourtech stack just to work with us.
That said, there are, for the,the clients that we serve in the
(22:18):
small business, nonprofit andmid-market space and even higher
ed.
For those clients, very oftenMailchimp is a good fit.
If they come to us with nothingand they don't have a
preference, we're gonna directthem to Mailchimp first to take
a look at it because usuallyit's price competitive for what
they want.
Um, so I've been doing emailssince like the late nineties,
right?
As my agency is growing up inthe early and mid aughts I'm
(22:40):
using every email program thatcomes out.
I probably started usingMailchimp back in about 2008, I
wanna say for clients and fordifferent projects.
But it was one of manyplatforms.
It very clearly rose to beingone of the largest providers
that's out there.
We spent time in it because itwas a lot a lot of clients
needed it.
A lot of clients used it.
Somewhere around the middleteens they started an experts
(23:03):
program, so they were trying toget agencies on board.
You know how software is like,you see the demo, you see the
YouTube video, and you're like,oh, that's easy.
I can do it.
Anybody can do that.
Sometimes you can if you're realtech savvy.
But also if you're really busyas a business owner, it doesn't
matter how user friendly thatpiece of software is, that's not
where your time is best spent,and you need to hire somebody
who can do that for you so thatyour time can be spent on the
(23:24):
things that really make yourbusiness money.
Mailchimp was starting thisexperts directory and they said
to me, hey, would you like to bepart of it?
I said, sure.
You know how our business nameis 108 Degrees?
When they built the directory,it was alphabetical.
Needless to say.
Russel (23:37):
Oh, oh.
A very practical, functionalbusiness name.
I love a good story like that.
Maryann (23:43):
That's the art and science behind our, our brand.
Back in the day, alphabeticalwas still a thing.
We were like at the top of thelist.
There also weren't a lot of uson the list at the time.
If there were 50 of us, maybethat was it.
I was part of that program andI'd get referrals and would work
with it.
The real pivot point came rightaround the pandemic actually,
because they launched this,Mailchimp and co partner program
(24:04):
and it was really dedicatedtowards creating success for
agencies and freelancers whowere leveraging Mailchimp for
their clients.
It was a wonderful opportunity.
It came right at the time wherewe all got locked down and stuck
on our houses and couldn't gonetworking anymore and couldn't
go see anybody anymore.
The community that was builtfrom that are some of the same
agencies that I, andfreelancers, that I still am
(24:26):
friends with today.
For the last five years we'vehad this ongoing online
relationship, sometimes inperson.
They did a lot to createcommunity for us and there's not
a lot of software that doesthat.
For us, it created theopportunity, first of all, for
me to get to know a lot ofpeople inside of Mailchimp or
what's now Intuit, Mailchimp,and to be very tied to that
(24:46):
piece of software because of thecommunity aspects of it.
Again, if you come to me andyou're already using something
else, that's totally fine, butif you don't have anything it's
a no brainer for me.
Why would I make it harder formy team?
We all know how to use it.
It's a community.
I know product managers atMailchimp.
If you are having a problemintegrating your CRM with mail,
with your email system, and Ican't figure it out, I have
(25:07):
great resources there that I cango to with an email who will get
me an answer because that's theconnection that I can have to
the company.
Russel (25:14):
The tip of the spear can be something very specific, like
a tool or something thatotherwise gets you, gets you
credibility in the marketplace.
It doesn't mean you're limitedto that tip of the spear, you
know, in terms of beingMailchimp.
People are still gonna hear youtalk about email marketing, even
if it's under the guise of, ofMailchimp.
But they're gonna ask well, Idon't wanna do Mailchimp, but
you sound like an expert atemail marketing, so can we use
(25:35):
my tool I think that notionsometimes that might, what I
hear sometimes, people might befearful of the limitation factor
of positioning, but that you canuse something very specific or
like HubSpot you mentioned, andthen it doesn't have to define
the entirety of what you do as abusiness or, or the tools you
use.
One thing I do want to pull out,'cause it it, you know what it
sounds like there is that youdidn't just sign up for a thing
(25:56):
and get your name in adirectory, that you actually
made a significant investment intime, energy, resources to
leverage this positioningplatform credibility and
expertise.
Maryann (26:06):
Okay, so let me way back to like, I'm old, right?
I've been sending email for areally long time, um, which
makes it a little bit easier onthe learning curve side when
they start, you know,certification programs and
things like that.
Sometimes it's harder becauseI'm like, well, I've been doing
it like this for 20 years.
What do you mean that's thewrong way to do it?
But for the most part, gettingthe certifications to be a pro
partner i, have told my teamknow, I like, go get all the
(26:29):
certificates you can get.
I always encourage with my team,like, if you wanna go get a
certificate, that's fine.
I'll pay for your certificate.
Because I want you to have thoseskill sets.
I want you to have thatcapability.
On our end it was there's likethree or four courses.
There's three required, fouroption.
The fourth is optional.
Every time they come out with anew one or they come up with an
update I'm always like the firstone to jump in and get it
because I do feel as thoughIntuit, Mailchimp does a great
(26:51):
job with, their certification isnot just, do you know how to use
the software?
It is also, here's a real lifesituation with a client who has
a need.
How will you solve this problemfor them?
You know, some of it is asoftware solution, but some of
it is also understandingmarketing strategy and how you
should about it in order to.
Get them to their goal.
(27:11):
I really liked that aspect oftheir training.
I thought it was very wellthought out, and that's why like
I, there's not a lot of us thathave pro partner certification.
I think it was maybe like 150 or200 of us, like globally.
I respect that.
It's not easy.
I'll tell you honestly, most ofus had to take that test more
than once to pass it.
So, um, and that's with all theexperience that we have because
(27:32):
sometimes there's more than oneanswer to a question.
The process was not incrediblydifficult, but the process was
definitely one that requiredsome effort and it, but it was
very reasonable.
Uh, you know, We do othercertifications as well, for
Google and other tools that weuse.
It doesn't hurt to polish theskills, right?
I don't think that having thecertification makes you great,
but I think that if you are goodat what you do, you're not
(27:54):
afraid to take the time and getthe certification because it's
worth it.
Russel (27:58):
You know, Any smart, capable person out there can
probably, if they wanna put inthe time to get the
certification they can do that.
But I think it's far more whatI'm pulling away and hearing you
say, it's the ethos around thatthis is R&D, this is part of my
knowledge generation that I wantto continue to have, but even
just.
I didn't just sign up and makeit happen.
I think it's the leverage in,in, in terms of I get the sense
(28:18):
that you're out there speakingon the circuit, you're getting
pulled in as an expert inothers, you're engaging in the
community, networking and allthe other things that actually
make that far more valuable thanthe test and the certification
itself is what I'm hearing.
Correct any part of that if I'mmissing any part of the story.
Maryann (28:33):
It's really about, you know, committing yourself,
right?
Once we made the commitment,once we got rid of the, um, web
dev part of our business andsaid, okay, we're all in on
email, we're all in on brand,we're all in on sales
enablement, content development.
This is what we do really well.
This is what we love to do, um,and this is what we can do at a
reasonable, affordable price forour clients in the small to mid
(28:54):
size business space.
Because you have to thinkpricing, like we're not dealing
with enterprise brands with likeunlimited budgets, so we have to
be conscious of what our clientscan and should spend based on
their market and their reach andtheir growth potential.
Having the ability to go all inand having tools and companies
in that space that support thateffort is, is really key to
(29:15):
being able to be successful atit.
Russel (29:17):
Yes.
And that's what I wanna makesure that the underlying
takeaway is there is and I getit, and I think we've all been
there as business owners thatsometimes we hope and think and
want there to be some silverbullets out there, and that the
reality is they just don'texist.
There's nothing out there thatcan make your business be wildly
successful that you sign up forand write a check or take a
test.
That it's far more about thatinvestment in that effort to, to
(29:38):
actually make it pay off, whichsounds like that's clearly the
case of, that you've, you'vemade inside your business.
One other thing I certainlywanna come back to, and I know
it's important for you, is justdoing good work in the world and
mission-driven work, however youwant to kinda label that.
Why is that important to you?
And maybe a secondary questionis just how do you balance doing
good work for good companieslike that, but also keeping your
(30:02):
eye on the bottom line andmaking sure the business stays
healthy?
Maryann (30:04):
It's not easy some days and there's a lot of times we go
over budget, but I just livewith it and so I just take the
hit.
Lemme talk internally first,about our culture right.
So, um, I started this businessobviously when I was dealing
with the type of employmentproblems that typically only
women deal with.
When my company started toorganically grow, I didn't
intentionally only hire women,but it seemed like the most
(30:26):
qualified candidates were oftenwomen.
The ones that stayed with we,with me longest were often
women.
Some were moms, some werecaregivers for the elderly.
Some were foster parents.
Some were just like very busyyoung singles trying to figure
out their destinies.
In all cases, I found thesewomen who synced with the team,
who were like fiercelyindependent, very
(30:47):
entrepreneurial, and who reallywanted to get up every day and
love what they do.
Their synergy together wasfantastic.
Internally, we created a culturethat is, one where we are very
team-based, very supportive ofeach other, very open
communication.
So then as we go out and we dealwith clients understanding that
clients have budgets and clientshave needs, and what can we do
(31:09):
within the time allotted, withinthe space allotted to, to do
what's best for them.
Choosing clients is reallyimportant.
We are a small group.
I cannot take every singleperson that knocks on our door.
Nor would I.
I want people that we are theright fit for, that my team is
the right fit for.
There have been mistakes in thepast.
I'm not gonna say I alwayschoose perfectly.
But you know, we have a fairlygood system now for sniffing
(31:31):
them out.
If anytime we have had someclients who have been
disrespectful to my teammembers.
They don't treat the team thesame way they treat me.
That is a deal breaker for me.
You give them the same respectyou give, just because I own the
agency doesn't mean I'm the onlyone that deserves your respect.
Creating that culture.
When it comes to get doing good,like we're excited to do the
work for our clients.
We also have a culture of tryingto take on a certain percentage
(31:53):
of nonprofit clients, um, which,you know, we provide them with,
you know, significant discounts.
A lot of like extra consultingtime on the side.
We try to find, um, clientswhose nonprofits speak to our
passions whenever possible.
We do a lot in public health.
We do some like children's basedcharities.
We try to work with, uh, thetypes of nonprofit organizations
(32:15):
that we know will make adifference and that we see that
the work that we do is not justgonna be a bottom line cost for
them, but is actually gonna helpmove the needle for them.
If I think that what it's goingto cost them, even at a
discounted rate, is not going toreally help them, we won't take
the work, but I, I'll refer themto anyone that I think can help.
We wanna use our powers forgood, right?
And not that helping smallbusinesses isn't good, like it
(32:36):
absolutely is.
We know that there are clientsthat we work with who have been
able to employ their teams andkeep people employed, especially
through the pandemic, becausethe work we were doing was
generating business for them.
That's important and, and wetake that seriously and we
understand the vital nature itis of what we do and the cost of
it, um, for our clients.
Then we try to give back inthose ways that we can, and we
(32:57):
always support the nonprofitsthat we're working with as well
in any way that we can.
Russel (33:01):
That's beautiful and wonderful.
This is honestly, quite honestlywhy I do what I do, is to hear
stories like that.
Small businesses helping otherbusinesses and, um, all try to
be better and do better thingsin this world.
I'm glad you're doing that greatwork.
Speaking to that end of justwhere you're looking at the
future, what's the next 10 yearslook like or longer?
Maryann (33:20):
Wow.
I mean, if you asked me 10 yearsago to predict now, I wouldn't
have been able to.
We had a whole big blip around2020 in the middle that no one
saw coming.
So it's hard for me to say whatthe next 10 years is.
I think that the more honed inwe get on, on, um, the work that
we're doing, the more focused weget with particular verticals.
I wanna try to stay in thoseverticals more.
(33:41):
I really don't know.
You tell me, you're the agencyexpert.
What does a company my, likemine look like in 10 years?
Russel (33:46):
To your point, I think it can be really hard to
predict.
Just the rate at which digitalis taken off in the last 20 some
years, uh, and now in, instituteAI, and we just don't know.
I just don't think we canactually comprehend what that's
gonna look like.
People can throw out things likethe death of the browser or,
right, AI is gonna take overall.
I don't necessarily land inthose camps.
(34:08):
But we have to, obviously, we'veproven that we have to be
dynamic on where and how media Bwill be consumed and created and
all of those things.
I'm the last guy that probablypretends like I'm, when I want
to jump on the platform and sayI'll be a futurist in that.
But I think if we can learnanything from the last years,
it's, we gotta be dynamic, wegotta be prepared, and we have
to hone and sharpen ourexpertise.
(34:28):
Because it's, it's, it's thesame way.
I guess you could look at amedical field that we don't go
to a generalist doctor anymoreto get our, our knee surgery or
anything like that.
I think marketing will continueto refine itself in that way
that you need a team of expertson a variety of different
channels, platforms, andstrategies to actually pull off
marketing.
I guess you could say in thatsense, it's gonna require
(34:49):
agencies to become all the moresmarter and ex, and, and
experts.
But need us all the more to makeit in this noisy marketplace of
a world.
Maryann (34:56):
It's true.
I will tell you one thing, Iwill predict that email will not
go away because I have beenhearing for 20 years how email
is dead and I am still making aliving at it and not a bad
living either.
I'm gonna go with, the one thingI know will still be there is
email.
I think we will probably stillbe doing it.
I'd be surprised, very surprisedif we weren't.
But you know, as you said, Ithink the world pivots too
(35:17):
quickly and changes too fast,and there's no way to know what
10 years from now looks like soI think it's just fun to enjoy
the ride.
Russel (35:24):
There you go.
Perfectly well said.
Last big question for you, and Ithink this ties in very nicely
to how our conversation started.
Are entrepreneurs born or arethey made?
I.
Maryann (35:33):
I think that the tenacity of an entrepreneur is
something they are born with,but I think that they are made
through the fire of thechallenges that they are faced
with.
If I had never been laid off, ifI had just had my job as my old
boss had predicted, I wouldprobably still be working
corporate marketing and tech 20years later, and I don't think
I'd be happier for it.
(35:54):
It was really tough at the time,but I'm glad that the challenge
happened and I think that we allhave to learn to embrace those
challenges and not be afraid ofthem.
Be wary so that you can prepare,but don't be afraid because if
you have the tenacity as anentrepreneur, you'll figure it
out.
Russel (36:09):
I'm glad you got laid off too.
Otherwise we wouldn't have hadthis wonderful conversation
today.
The first part of how you phrasethat, I'm gonna go pull that
quote, is that's probably themost poetic version of to
finding the difference answeringthis question.
I'm gonna go back and take alook at that, uh,'cause I think
it was pretty poetic There's noway I could try to re-say that,
but I'll pull it out for thefolks listening and we'll, we'll
(36:30):
make sure to include that on thesite for the podcast launch.
If people wanna know more about108 Degrees, where can they go?
Maryann (36:37):
You can find us on all the social platforms, not
TikTok.
Sorry, we don't, we don'tTikTok.
I'm not dancing for anybody.
YouTube, LinkedIn, uh,Instagram, Facebook.
You'll find us at 1 0 8 DegreesMarketing or visit our website
at www.108degrees.com.
We'd love to talk to you aboutyour email challenges and how
you can reach your audiencebetter.
Russel (36:56):
Love it.
Perfect.
There you go folks.
No dancing videos, but uh, we'lllive with that.
We'll take your email expertiseinstead.
Thank you so much Maryann, fortaking the time outta your
schedule today to just talkabout the power of positioning,
about going all in, about makingan investment, about doing good
work, creating a good culture.
So many great takeaways foreveryone today, and really
appreciate you taking the timeto share that with us.
Maryann (37:16):
Thank you for having me.
This was a lot of fun.
I really enjoyed it.
We hope you've enjoyed thisepisode of An Agency Story
podcast where we share realstories of marketing agency
owners from around the world.
Are you interested in being aguest on the show?
Send an email topodcast@performancefaction.com.
(37:38):
An Agency Story is brought toyou by Performance Faction.
Performance Faction offersservices to help agency owners
grow their business to 5 milliondollars and more in revenue.
To learn more, visitperformancefaction.com.
We have some great clients and, and one of our, um,
(38:00):
I wouldn't say earliest clients,but kind of like before 2010,
early on clients was a womanowned software company, um, in
Southern New Hampshire wherethey were actually in the same
town as me.
I met them at a town event andwe had like this incredible, we
worked with them for sevenyears.
It was an amazing experience.
They were such smart women.
They are such smart women.
(38:20):
We basically marketed them sowell.
We put ourselves out of workbecause they reached a point
where they were ready to, youknow, get onto the next
challenge and, and it was, theysaid to me like, part of what
sold their company to the peoplethat bought it was the great
marketing that they had behindit.
I was like, darn, why did I dosuch a good job?
I really loved working withthem, but, um, but I was really
(38:42):
happy to make them successfuland I was really proud of
helping a woman-owned softwarecompany like find success in my
own state.
It's very rewarding because it,it's hard, you know, you face a
lot of challenges as a smallbusiness anyway, and as three
women, they really had a lot ofobstacles in their way, but they
did an amazing job and I washappy to be part of their story.
Russel (39:01):
Honestly, if you really probably broke it down, I think
if we were all being genuinelyand authentic about being
absolutely amazing at what wedo, we would always eventually
work ourselves out of a job asan agency.
And if we were staying in ourlane too, that might be another
element that would be importantto that process.
It sounds like you did, you didyour job.
Maryann (39:19):
My goal is for you to let go of me'cause you don't
need me anymore.
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