July 13, 2024 • 39 mins
After a replay of the climax of Rocky, Rocky II picks up exactly where the first film leaves off, with Rocky Balboa (Sylvester Stallone) and Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) taken to a nearby hospital after suffering serious injuries caused by the pummeling each fighter took in their 15-round contest. Creed won the bout by a split decision, but the victory isn't so sweet, as many fans accuse him of helping Balboa along, while some even think Balboa should have been declared champion. Contrary to what he said after the fight was over, Creed wants a rematch, but Balboa, at the urging of his girlfriend (turned wife in this film) Adrian (Talia Shire), wants to retire from the ring, suffering from limited vision in one of his eyes as a result of the repeated blows he took from Creed's fist. Between Creed's constant taunts in the media, the inability to find a steady job, and a new house and baby to pay for, Rocky has to face a decision of whether he should risk his life and wife for the money and glory a rematch would provide.
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(00:00):
You think I beat him the last time?
Do?
You got the decision. Man, I won but
I didn't beat him.
What are you afraid how, Tony?
Honest.
Yeah honest.
He's all wrong for us, baby.
(00:21):
I saw you beat that man.
I can never saw no man get beat
before.
And the man kept coming after you.
We don't need that kind of man in
my life.
I know what you're feeling.
(00:55):
Hi. Welcome to around the world in these
movies. My name is Vince Leo. I am
the author of the film review website qui
dot net. I invite you to check out
all of my r work I'm doing film
reviews since the middle of the 19 nineties.
You can read them at k dot net
QWIPSTER
dot net While you're there, I do encourage
you to also check out the link that
(01:16):
goes to my other podcast. If you like
what you hear here, It's very similar and
it covers films of the 19 nineties
It's called to the nineties and beyond. You
can find that wherever you get your podcast
or you can click that link at qui
dot net. Today, I'm gonna be getting again
to the second part of this 4 part
series looking at the early
Rocky films.
(01:37):
Last episode, of course, we covered Rocky this
time,
What else? Rocky 2
and it came out just before the 19
eighties in June of 19 79.
Rocky 2 is also Ap g rated film.
It does have some violence as well as
language. The run runtime is just a little
under 2 hours long.
(01:57):
Obviously, we're gonna bring back the main cast
here sylvester alone, Talia Shire, We're just Meredith,
Bert young and Carl Weather.
Only this time, in addition to being the
screen rider, Sylvester Stall also takes the director's
chair.
Now the idea for a continuation to the
Rocky story actually came to Sylvester S mind
(02:18):
as they approached closer to completing production on
Rocky before it was ever released.
He was contemplating that he would like if
he could to make the Rocky story a
trilogy if it proved successful,
he felt it was too difficult to relate
the full story
of a man in just less than 2
hours. In fact, he felt it was a
(02:40):
tragedy that such a universally appealing a character
like Rocky would only have 2 hours of
life and then disappear forever.
Still idea for Tri
began when he was 15 years old and
you read James t fore else.
Studs Lawn Trilogy.
He also later read John Dos
Usa Trilogy. And he felt that these trilogy
(03:00):
greatly affected
his outlook not only on life, but also
his writing because he felt that these stories
endured by looking at characters in different ways
in 3 different parts of their lives.
Since Alone was 30 when he made Rocky
thought, you know, would be be cool to
actually check in on Rocky life at h
40
cinematic, and then maybe again at h 50.
(03:23):
Stalin felt he had kind of a way
to do it because in his original Rocky
scripts Stall had written a scene, and it
didn't actually get film, but there was a
scene where Rocky meets real life, Philadelphia, Mayor
Frank R
R invites Rocky to City Hall for a
photo op. And then
during their
interplay, he cha as rocky for his trouble
(03:43):
making history as a youth and
Now, ironically, Rocky is gonna be a role
model to all the street punk out there
and R asks Rocky about his plans for
his hundred and 50000 dollar prize for fighting
Apollo Creed. Rocky gl replies
He's gonna use that money to run for
Air.
Now Stall had discussions during this time with
(04:05):
the director of Rocky John A.
He discussed what Rocky life my actually be
like immediately after losing the title about. He
felt that, you know, a lot of different
companies would tried to take advantage of Rockies
newfound fame to promote their brands,
and the money that Rocky makes as a
pitch man for some of products would provide
(04:25):
additional seed money that he could use to
run for mayor,
and he could help the next generation of
rockies in Philadelphia.
He would run on the reform ticket, he
would promise to clean up the parks so
that kids could have a safe place to
play.
And meanwhile, Rocky would attend night school He
would try to elevate his education. He, of
(04:45):
course, would Marry Adrian. They would have a
son, and the climax of the second film
not be a fight, but actually the mayor
election in Philadelphia and Rocky
would ultimately
win that time.
Stone imagine that maybe the third film could
be more about Rocky difficulties trying to affect
changes as the mayor, and a sub plot
would involve Paul, Rocky brother law, getting caught
(05:07):
stealing from the city's treasury and then Rocky,
even though he's squeaky clean, he still gets
blamed he gets framed.
And then run out of office. And the
film would end with Rocky back, where we
first met him in the boxing ring at
the club that opens the first rocky he
would be older. He might be about 37
years old or so, but he would seem
(05:27):
happier to be in the boxing ring again.
And then the film would fade out as
the ring announcer announces.
And now the former mayor, of Philadelphia.
Now after Rocky became a massive.
Critical and commercial success,
Stall
didn't have to think about Rocky he had
hundreds of scripts coming his way. Now, unfortunately,
(05:49):
his next films proved to be stagnant comparatively
to Rocky.
The organized labor drama loosely based on the
life of Jimmy hof called Fifth
And then there was another film which stolen
wrote the original screen play for. Actually he
wrote it before he had written Rocky as
I discussed us the previous episode. This time,
it would mark his debut as a director
Paradise alley formerly called Hell's Kitchen. After these
(06:11):
films didn't do very well at the box
office in speculation started circulating around Hollywood that's
stall lone might be a 1 hit wonder,
and that really shattered Dillon self esteem to
start hearing about. Stall felt that he needed
a shore hit. If he was gonna keep
his dream The of being a big time
actor alive. And so he decided that there
(06:33):
was no sure thing
than making a sequel to Rocky as his
next picture Nest own overnight fame experience
dramatically changed his originally na perspective on what
Rocky life would be like. After losing the
title fight.
Stall observed that once you've tasted success, that
(06:54):
losing everything that you dreamt of ever achieving
and becoming a nobody again was really no
happy ending at all.
If the happiness really depended on him remaining
on top as an actor, surely Rocky happiness
meant, he really wanted to become the champion.
Once he had that that taste he could
almost be 1.
(07:14):
Still on being in as early thirties he's
felt that, you know, if he spaced these
things 3 years apart, maybe you might be
too old by the third film to play
a a champion boxer or he wanted. To
film the second and third entry simultaneously.
He claimed at the time it that there
would never be a rocky 4 to because
he felt that it would be embarrassing playing
the character
(07:35):
into old age. He didn't wanna be, like
the Bower boys where they were playing the
same characters they played in their youth into
their fifties and sixties.
Obviously, there's a lot of irony to what
he's saying back then If you follow the
Rocky saga ago, but his hope at that
time was to begin shooting by October of
19 77.
Still long contacted Rockies director John A again
(07:56):
about returning and doing go a sequel. Ava
at that time was busy with pre production
on Saturday night fever, and he couldn't commit,
but he did want to hear what Stone
had in mind. And after hearing it, he
said he objected to the intention of Rocky
fighting, again, especially Apollo Creed,
Because he felt that that was going to
be a cheap rehash to undermine the characters
(08:16):
that they had built up.
He didn't wanna see the Rocky series going
the way of the planet of the 8
series that, you know, critical acclaim and then
followed by a bunch of cheap knock. And
he especially really did not think Rocky should
fight Apollo again because audiences he felt were
not going to be as ready to root
for Rocky to win because he they had
(08:37):
already established that Apollo Creed was a classy
and dignified good guy by the end of
Rocky.
Ava suggested,
maybe instead,
they should concentrate on Rocky returning back to
poverty, trying to overcome his fading fame.
He would get into drugs. He would hustle
pull, to try to pay his debts and
(08:57):
Maybe that would be the struggle he would
overcome. But Stall argued at that time that
Rocky was not somebody who is self destructive.
He was a survivor.
He was a simple and good and naive
guy with a big heart, he would never
give up on his dreams.
Ava To still firmly that if Rocky was
gonna fight. Apollo again,
He should just find a new director.
(09:18):
Now still wrote his first draft in March
of 19 77, he entitled it Rocky returns.
He took what Ava said to heart, he
would try to avoid Rocky fighting Apollo again.
And the way to do that was to
have Apollo retire,
And then a new champion would be in
place. Still un con conflicted that the new
champion was a white heavyweight
(09:39):
goliath.
Named Clever Lang. K lang would be a
dreadful bully providing the worst example
for children.
Rocky can't stand seeing this guy as the
champion. He begs Apollo to un retire, come
out of retirement and knock k block off,
but Apollo at that time is doing way
too well He's too successful in is of
(10:00):
African business ventures. And he further re reports
that the American people have been clamoring for
a white box champion for so many decades.
And if Rocky doesn't like him, maybe he
should challenge him himself. So Rocky tries to
do that, he go with Clever lang to
try to accept fighting him. And they choose
a fight in Philadelphia,
but Mickey, the manager soon suffers a stroke
(10:22):
so Apollo agrees to become Rockies new manager,
and then the climax, a grueling brawl, 1
of the biggest brawl ever to take place
in the boxing ring
in the climax,
Rocky and at the end becomes just barely,
the new champion. Now despite there not being
a rem match with Apollo,
when Rocky went back to Ava he who
(10:43):
had just been taken off of Saturday night
fever, A again declined returning. Ava was really
disappointed here still with where stall was going.
And but he he did understand that the
phenomenal international success of Rocky
made breaking from the boxing 4 formula at
this point impossible. It was too big
(11:03):
to really gamble
by taking into an entirely different direction with
the character.
Unbeknownst stall, Ava also had a personal reason
for not doing Rocky. He had just begun
a romance with screen barr Grant, and he
wanted to direct grant script, slow dancing in
the big city as his next movie. Years
here though, Ava would
(11:24):
greatly regret this decision because the relationship with
the grant didn't last very long. Also the
film did not perform well at all,
and he feels that the... He could've have
easily postponed
slow dancing in the big city until after
he completed Rocky,
and that would have definitely increased his profile
and put him a in a much better
financial situation for the remainder of his career,
(11:46):
which had a lot of ups and downs.
If you follow Albert career.
Now with Albert out of the picture stall,
began reconsider the story,
he felt that the the larger than life
K lang that was somebody who was best
left for the final film and that Apollo
Creed should indeed challenge Rocky to a rem
match.
So the new story angle for his next
(12:07):
script carrying the title Rocky part 2
retribution. The action begins just a heartbeat after
the events of the original film. Apollo Creed
immediately in the hospital challenges Rocky to a
rem match because he feels he had been
just ema
in that title fight.
Although creed technically won, by decision, it was
a split decision and some spec spectators out
(12:29):
there thought,
was the 1 who should have won. So
Creed becomes absolutely obsessed with c Rocky to
get back in the ring and fight him,
and then
Creed was going to prove to all that
he was the worthy champion by destroying Ba
bo within the first couple of rounds. Now,
Rocky doesn't want any part of this. He
feels he he just would go into retirement
to do that for Adrian and move on
(12:51):
with his life. But as we see him
try to move on, he quickly burns through
whatever his earnings are after taxes and then
he finds himself unable to find another job
to support
himself an Adrian and a baby on the
way. And that would force Rocky to accept
Apollo challenge
upon which they would get back in the
ring for the climax once again, this time
Rocky winning.
(13:13):
Early versions of this new story angle had
the final ballot set in the Roman Coli,
stall wanted to add glamour to the series.
He he wanted to go big and Rocky
and Adrian
would stop in Paris for some of their
romantic scenes, and then they would move on
to Rome, and that would be where Rocky
begins his training. He would train very much
like he did in Philadelphia. He would train
(13:34):
around the streets of Rome. He would run
up and down. He would emulate to run
up the steps of the... Of the Philadelphia
art museum by running up the Spanish steps.
In rome.
It's still alone would get an audience with
the pope who bless his chances holy before
best Apollo
in the ring to become the new champ.
Someone hoped that John Paul the second would
actually appear, but if if he had to,
(13:56):
we would get a an actor to play
that role,
Ce aspirations deflate, though, when he learned that
using the Roman coli
as a movie location was absolutely a no
go,
There were other structures that they suggested that
were similar enough to that the Roman colosseum
that could stand in, like the arena of
N and the Greek theater of Tower men.
(14:18):
But United artists started bak because
all of this was going to be a
pricey premise and really didn't want a gamble
because the loans last 2 films fizz at
the box office. So stall
understanding this. He began reconsider again. He
by going for all this glamour, this this
big time action, he recognized that he was
(14:38):
removing just too many elements that made Rocky
who he is.
He wasn't gonna have the old philly guys
to talk to you around the neighborhood or
the street corner singers or really anything else
that made Rocky Rocky.
Rather than the... This
intercontinental jet setting film, hitting the big time,
still owns next revision he felt would be
modest He would shorten the title to Rocky
(14:59):
2
retribution.
He would have Rocky and Adrian just trying
to live a modest, but better life.
The Coli was something that would be better
off for the finale of the series,
the clever lang fight in rock 3.
Stall came up with the reason why Apollo
would want to fight Rocky in Philadelphia was
so Rockies
(15:21):
hometown crowd could see him get absolutely demolished.
Firsthand.
Now Stall did catch the directing bug after
he had helm paradise sally. Although he did
find that directing and starring and writing on
the same film was exhausting.
And he felt like doing that again, might
age him before his time.
So with the approval of producer Erwin Wink,
(15:42):
Stall decided, he should direct Rocky 2 with
Thomas J Wright.
Stall when handle the drama, wright was going
to handle the action and boxing sequences,
and that was primarily because the chore
of the fighting was just too precise to
be an actor in front of the camera
as well as try to direct it
(16:02):
behind the scenes to see how it was
all playing out as well. United artists weren't
really pleased that given the lackluster results of
Paradise Alley
to give Stall... The director's chair, but they
recognized they wanted the film made and they
wanted... It made quickly,
and they wanted to keep Stall a happy
camper.
Still loans approach when it came to directing
(16:23):
his dramatic scenes. He was going to try
to emulate the straightforward style of John A.
And because he wanted rocky tube to feel
because it was just a heartbeat away, it
would be a natural continuation straight after Rocky
he wasn't gonna get too stylish as he
did for Paradise sally.
Now, in the end, you see Stall, is
(16:43):
the only credited director that directors Guild of
America denied the c director credit. The bestowed
it only on s loan
and, Thomas J Wright had settle for a
technical consultant credit for his work directing the
boxing action.
Now, Casting took a lot longer than Stone
had anticipated. All of the principles expected more
(17:04):
nuanced roles this time out, and they all
wanted more money to come back. Talia Shire,
especially played hard to get. She made a
few character demands. For instance, she wanted Rocky
and Adrian to get married early and a
film because her mother, a devout Catholic was
upset when her favorite Catholic newspaper called out
the original rocky for depicting Raw and Adrian,
(17:26):
living in sin unmarried.
The production would also have to wait 2
months, so, Shire could finish your current project
called prophecy, joaquin which was shooting until September
of 19 78.
During the production, though, Shire stopped doing press
interviews because which She had started growing upset
about the sal solutions coverage of her separation,
and then soon to be divorced from her
(17:47):
music,
compose her husband David. Shire.
Rumors also began circulating that Talia Shire had
been dating prophecy director John Frank,
although she maintained publicly that their were just
good friends.
Bert Young, he was not going to commit
until he saw a completed script. Once he
did he did approve and he did sign
(18:07):
on or although the film begins seconds after
the first film ends,
Poly, though is noticeably slimmer in Rocky 2.
There's no
explanation as to why, although he would just
lose pounds
from the end of, the Rocky fight to
being at the hospital.
Now 1 speculation, this is only my personal
speculation is that Bert Young was trying to
(18:29):
look his best
because as he said, many years later that
he was absolutely sm. He was in love
with Talia Shire while they were making looking
king rocky even though they play brother and
sister,
he really was in love with young and
he felt. All throughout his life, he still
was, looking Young also was so by Shire.
He cast her as his wife in the
(18:49):
19 78 Tv movie that he wrote himself
called Daddy. I don't like it like. This.
Much of Polly role though
involving criminal acts that he would perform for
the loan chart, Tony Ga, they were trimmed
out of the final shooting script.
Burgess Meredith
absolutely did not wanna return initially. He felt
that the Rocky story had already been told,
(19:10):
and there was really nothing more to say,
plus the as it was scheduled, was going
to conflict with his
promotional obligations for the film he had done
called Magic.
You Meredith did have a change of heart.
S was very 10 donations about getting him
board. And he showed him the script and
Meredith did conclude that there was a he
maybe more to say in the Rocky story,
(19:32):
and he agreed, and he actually was very
enthusiastic about coming back in the end.
Carl Weather also was very skeptical about coming
back, especially when he found out this... The
loan was going to be the director, but
he did sign on because he did see
in the script increased complexity
in creed character, he would be able to
show the seriousness behind the Show, and also
(19:54):
that look at his family life. It did
take some time for whether to trust at
sloan knew what was best as a director,
especially even when Stall wanted them to actually
hit each other during the boxing match to
add realism to the to the bout.
The realism actually did
increase because they they grew very frustrated with
each other while they were boxing, sometimes,
(20:15):
that would be very visible on the screen.
They would actually hit each other and hurt
each other And despite some personal friction, whether
is calls alone. In the end, the best
director he he'd ever worked for because Stalin
generally gave weather space to do some real
acting and breathe further life into the role
as he saw fit. Now that realism also
led to other issues,
(20:36):
For instance, 1 of Stall Spa partners was
former lightweight champion Roberto Duran.
Stall was much bigger than Duran in terms
of his, is bulk. And he felt he
could kinda cut loose and give
Duran a few shots, but still soon realize
he was just an actor. You can never
be a real boxer or Duran retaliate with
(20:56):
some
powerful and blazing fast punches. Stalin would regularly
have to talk to the interpreter. To tell
Duran not to hit so hard.
Duran found still owns protest stations very amusing
personally because he felt he was actually holding
back. He was barely hitting him according to
him. Maybe maybe that's why Duran durant nickname
his hands of stone. He doesn't realize just
how heavy he hits. But the loan decided
(21:18):
take to wear head gear throughout their spa
sessions because he felt that Dora duran would
often forget. Boxer Chuck We, the original inspiration
for Rocky. He was slot for a role.
To play Rockies spa partner. He was gonna
be called Chin Weber
instead of chuck weapon.
The part would be more than Cameo
weapon says it was about 32 lines that
(21:38):
he would have to remember. Weapon did come
in to read for an audition, but,
we was not a natural actor. Had never
acted before. He wasn't a good 1, and
he had been heavily drinking
coming in to try to calm his nerves.
And he ended up bombing the audition. Stall
alone told him to go back and practice
and return when he was sober and W
(21:59):
did, but he's still absolutely stun. And eventually,
as still continued to work through revisions about
3 weeks prior to the shoot We received
the call from the producers,
that his part was cut.
There is a character still called Chin in
the movie,
but he only has a couple of lines
mostly
agonizing Rocky around Mickey gym,
(22:20):
but a little bit of trivia here if
you follow your still movies he did reuse
the name Chin Weber,
about a decade later,
Sunday Land played the role in the 19
89 film lock up where there is a
character named Chin Weber.
Now the budget for Rocky 2 was set
at 7600000.0
dollars that was over 7 times the budget
(22:41):
for the first film then that was partially.
Because everybody's asking price obviously had gone up,
but also, they were gonna film in Philadelphia
this time legitimately.
Unlike the last time where they didn't have
any permits and they went with non union
crew. They had to pay the piper this
time out.
Stall would receive scale because in its contract
for the first film He had option his
acting salary for any follow ups. But for
(23:03):
riding and directing to stall decided to front
load it, he wanted a million dollars and
5 percent of the gross. United artist did
ba at this, they felt that this was
way too much, you know, know, million dollars
was a huge price for anybody. At the
time,
Negotiations did go on for a long time,
but finally, United artists found themselves under completely
(23:23):
new management.
During the
negotiations. A lot of the top brass leaving
to form Orion pictures, and the new brass
came in, and they basically gave stall loan
whatever he wanted to get Rocky too.
Now in order to train his body for
the film, stall decided to get together with
Doctor Franco Kale columbus,
the Sa strong man. He was a major
(23:44):
body builder or former mister Europe, mister World,
mister Olympia, mister Universe. And he wanted to
use his services to get into the best
shape of his life, you know, with these
long 90 minute weight lifting sessions. Eventually, he
would add about 2 inches to his biceps.
Meanwhile stall also recruited the services of veteran
boxing trainer A Sa,
and he was hired there to develop Stall
(24:05):
and whether... Also to physical shape for boxing,
weather
had come back from Yugoslavia, he had made
force 10 from Nav there He was he
was pretty much out of shape. He was
much heavier than he would like, and he
had indulge in a little too much rich
food and drink while he was in Europe,
and after working with,
he really got rid of pretty much all
(24:25):
of the body fat could
drop about 15 pounds and put on muscle.
Giovanni was really
impressed with weather and he, in fact, stated
that weather would have had the talent and
determination to be a very good boxer,
probably would have been a championship boxer if
he had decided to go that route earlier
in life.
Unfortunately,
(24:45):
during the workouts, and injury did nearly derail
the entire production of Rocky tube. And it
occurred winds stall alone, suffered a massive tear
of his p alice major, the muscle under
the front of the shoulder that anchors, the
ribs that hold the arm in place.
Doctor K had challenged stall to a bench
press competition to really get a motivated and
(25:07):
still
eventually attempted to lift more than his body
could apparently take, and he heard a loud
pop, and he felt intense pain, immediately in
the veins in his arm doubled in size
and they nearly turned black. After a visit
to the hospital took about a hundred and
60 stitches and this nylon attachment cable through
his
(25:28):
shoulder bone to keep the,
arm in place for 2 months as it
healed
But in the meantime, stall had no lateral
movement in his arm, and he could only
really kind of jab
and upper cut. And Stall sloan faced with
having to postpone and maybe even cancel the
movie meant to Salvage his career at the
insurance company's insistence.
(25:49):
He had to come up with a solution
in in a hurry about how to rest
stage the fight scene to try to compensate
for his inability to throw a proper punch.
Especially any kind of hook or lateral punch.
So
his idea was that Rocky would have to
have a reason to fight right handed instead.
So
stall con contracted that Rocky would have this
(26:10):
eye injury
that he had incurred suffering too many hits
to the head from Apollo creed.
That could render rocky blind if he took
any more blows to that side of his
face. So
in the new revised script
Rocky manager Vicky comes up with his game
plan to try to protect Rockies eye and
(26:31):
also try to throw creed off balance in
the title fight,
by having Rocky switch from South Paul to
right handed, and then,
as a as a ploy, he would switch
back to South Paul in later rounds.
So that was a new story angle that
Stall would work in. As his arm was
on the mend,
(26:51):
Stall started jab,
into a heavy bag repeatedly
until he was able to switch from South
Paul to a more standard style, that would
be realistic for the final fight Now the
climactic fight was going to be held at
the Philadelphia spectrum in the movie, the Los
Angeles Sports Arena substituted for
Philadelphia spectrum.
Stall wanted this to be the first thing
(27:12):
that they filmed because he wanted to work
with his editors
and make sure that they had plenty of
time to edit it to perfection.
Still on watch the an actual heavyweight bio
between Larry Holmes and Ken Norton, and he
decided to pattern the fifteenth and final round
of the film fight based on the fifteenth
and final round of the holmes Norton fight,
(27:33):
which took place in June of 19 78,
Stalin felt that that final round of the
holmes Norton fight was 1 of the most
siding final rounds he you'd ever seen, which
had both boxer looking absolutely dead on their
feet, but neither refusing to fall down,
and they were both willing to give everything
they had left to win. Stalin also wanted
the final fights punches to fly twice as
(27:54):
fast and line twice as hard as first
film because he wanted audiences
to see how brutal boxing actually could be
and to sense pain with every hit. Sometimes
there punches which often landed would escalate into
retaliation between the actors.
For instance, 1 day, stall got absolutely frustrated,
and then he cl weather right below his
belt to which weather responded not only with
(28:17):
pain with but with a lot of anger
of its own, they eventually had to a
break from each other and then recon
to try to talk things out before they
were gonna continue on with the the rest
of the shoot.
Production was also halted for a spell when
stall alone
collapsed in the ring from a exhaustion. Medics
had to come in and administer
oxygen and some shots of vitamin b 12
(28:38):
and stall opted still to continue the next
day because they had paid for 1800 extras
to come in, but he still was too
weak in rec to dodge about 70 direct
hits from weather throughout the rest of that
day, and stall engaged during these fights a
lot of trauma to his body, weather would
pound him physically
(29:00):
and and during the filming of that climactic
about
still suffered broken ribs. He had an ailing
shoulder. He had a bruised kidney. He had
enlarged intestines. He was just really jacked up
for a long time afterward. So still long
continue to edit the the fight while he
was still directing scenes for the remainder of
Rocky 2.
Sometime during late September of 78 or early
(29:22):
January 19 79 still on started growing deeply
dissatisfied with the way that the final moments
of the film. 3 occurred. So he decided
he needed to do something. He ordered additional
shooting, and that included an alternate ending, so
3000 extras were brought back into the sports
arena,
all of the principal actors were called in
(29:43):
over there. Adrian Poly, who were originally scripted
and shot as watching the title bout on
television to not only look after Rocky Junior
and who was an infinite at the time,
but Adrian was also rating after her
hospitalization and from exhaustion and slipping into a
coma, But in this new shoot for an
alternate ending, Poly and Adrian, would actually attend
(30:04):
the fight in person,
Poly would be seen rooting Rocky from Rocky
corner, Adrian would be watching from a afar
in the arena much as she did in
the first Rocky.
And when Rocky ultimately wins Adrian runs enthusiastic
up to the ring to celebrate his victory.
Rocky receives the championship belt. Adrian takes a
(30:24):
hold of it and listen up in the
air, and then he lifts her up in
the air upon which fans storm the ring
and lift both of them up in the
air on their shoulders.
Even though they shot this new ending, in
the end, stall decided to stick with his
originally scripted ending for reasons.
That aren't quite known, but in more recent
years, Stalin has talked about the ending of
(30:45):
Rocky 2 very fondly that the ending that
he went with actually brings some to tears
every time he sees it. So obviously, he
had a change of heart about how good
the ending of Rocky 2 actually is.
And during this time had a lot of
relationship issues of his own, his marriage with
his wife Sasha,
it was strained. In fact, she was suing
him at time, but it ended up getting
(31:06):
on the man shortly before production,
sloan had had an affair with his paradise
Ali Costa Jo Ing
the Sasha at the time told slide to
do what he had to do, but not
to really come back to her until he
was ready to be her husband again.
After the Ing affair was over in March
of 19 78,
Stall did reconcile with Sasha.
(31:26):
Sasha soon found out during the production that
she was pregnant with his second child,
despite the
reconciliation, stall did
eventually walk out on Sasha again, after the
film's release
to be with the also married Susan Anton
who he had met in also in January
of 19 79 when they appeared together, to
(31:46):
film an episode of the Mu show.
Now 1 of the things that Sal had
intended for the first Rocky
was
in 1 of the runs... Through Philadelphia that
would ultimately culminate in going up the steps
at the Philadelphia Art Museum was to have
kids on the second time he did it
run alongside him.
They weren't able to do it for the
(32:07):
first film because it was going to draw
too much attention to their gorilla style non
union Philadelphia shoot. But he decided to do
it for Rocky 2, so they placed ads
in the newspapers to have kids,
come out and run with Rocky,
and they were inundated with hundreds of kids,
mostly with teens,
some of them happen to be
(32:28):
great runners. They were in track clubs like
the Philadelphia strider.
They started running way too fast and they
ran ahead of rocky
through the scenes, even beating him up the
steps, and he felt that that just was
not gonna work. So they decided to res
shoot that, and the next time, he kept
the age to age 9 and under
to keep the kids from overtaking him during
(32:48):
the run. There was a a couple of
cut. 1 involved Rocky visiting and then receiving
an honorary diploma from Lincoln High school. That
was cut. Rocky reveals during the scene that
he dropped out of school in the ninth
raid to become a boxer. As for the
final fight, it took about 3 weeks to
actually shoot the whole thing. As I mentioned,
still on spent a long time wanting to
(33:08):
edit it. And in fact, it took about
8 months, like way longer than he had
intended he kept wanting to tweak it. He
used slow motion. He added sound effects. He
wanted to increase the impact of of every
blow
because the lone surmise that a failure with
this franchise
that made him a star would probably be
(33:29):
AT0
to his career. And he knew that the
final fight was where all of the emotions
were finally be be released, and he wanted
to have audiences leaving the theater with something
that best the original
beyond just the satisfaction of Rocky winning the
title. In fact, Stall was still working on
the film with just a month ago prior
(33:49):
to its June 50 19 79 release date.
And the reason why you can tell that
Stalin was still working on this film then
who's because Still Son, Sergio was born on
May seventh teeth, so less than a month
before the release date, and still put him
in the film as the infant Rocky junior
At this time, Talia Shire, she left the
(34:11):
last 2 weeks of production for this other
movie she was working on at the time
called Cork.
It was released into theaters under a new
title called windows a little bit later.
The production of Cork claimed that Shire was
leaving because She had German measles that probably
was to recoup some insurance money on her
departure, but she did come into film Adrian
(34:32):
hospital... Scene. Obviously, if she had german measles,
why would she be there holding still owns
infant son,
they re out some additional hospital scenes involving
Adrian little producer Erwin Wink sent representatives finally
to Telstra
to let it go, make sure that they
had film ready to go by the June
fifteenth release date. And now also in May,
(34:53):
in order to promote the film, still on
had,
30 minute Tv promotional special for Cbs called
Rockies people, and that would feature the original
cast discussing their roles,
Someone also wrote a novel normalization for Rocky
2, the novel,
also features some of the scenes they got
cut from the final film. The novel, which
is very interesting if you read it because
(35:14):
it's told mostly in the first person
as if Rocky were writing it, and he
uses a lot of his trademark mangled English.
Scenes that don't involve Rocky are also in
the book, but they are told not from
Rocky, they were told in the third person
using standard English.
Now Rocky 2 when it was finally and
released,
it was a major hit. It earned over
(35:35):
80000000 dollars in the Us alone and about
200000000 dollars
worldwide.
That resuscitate
stella career just when it was on life
support. So it did the job that stall
had intended to do. As far as what
I think about Rocky 2, You know, I
feel like it's probably the most unfairly overlooked
entry in the Rocky series. It's not as
(35:55):
good as the first by any means. It's
not as flashy as the later entries. So
a lot of people do
tend to forget about it when they think
about the Rocky films. I do think that
for a formula film, it it adhere to
the best of the first film's formula in
terms of giving us ample character development.
It develops Rocky underdog status yet again, scenes
(36:16):
of intense training, the thrilling box finale. They're
all there. Maybe not as satisfying as the
first time out, but still satisfying. I do
think it does fall short
because it doesn't explore a lot more than
we would expect from a formula film, In
fact, the first scene that you see the
film, which is a replay of the first
film's ending. That actually has for people who've
already watched the first film more excitement than
(36:38):
anything.
That is newly delivered here by alone.
But nevertheless, I do think that there are
plenty of goods that are still delivered to
satisfy Rocky. Saga fans.
As a director stall alone really is not
quite up to the more experienced Ava natural
eye in terms of scenery and tight editing,
but still on knows his characters through and
(36:59):
through, and you get some some additional nuance
here that makes some of their seeing still
quite compelling even though we know where it's
ultimately going to go. There's some maturation there
for those characters.
Adrian grows more inner strength in the relationship
with Rocky. Mickey becomes much more demanding, Apollo
Creed
gets consumed by the same ego that probably
(37:19):
was responsible for propelling him to championship status
to begin with. In the end, even though
we still like Apollo Creed, we can see
that that cons... Assumption by his ego, puts
them on a bad route, so we still
root for rocky. The victory is not quite
as sweet as the first film because Rocky
goals here are not quite as noble as
the first time because he's really putting his
(37:39):
health on the line. He's putting his relationship
with adrian on the line.
For this payday to get himself out of
a financial hold that he got himself into.
But still, it's a very satisfying film even
though it it dips into heavy mel drama
at times, there's some redundant emotional beats as
well.
There's some good humor there. There's some good
drama there. It doesn't step outside of the
shadow of its predecessor.
It's not quite a knockout out, like the
(38:01):
original rocky, but I do think that it's
still packs enough punch to win in the
end by decision. And that's why I give
Rocky,
2, 3 and a half stars out of
4, and 3 half stars. On my skill
means that I do think that Rocky 2
is a good film, and I definitely recommend
it for people who enjoy the original Rocky
who wants see a respectable
continuation. So 3 and a half stars out
(38:23):
of 4 is what I give Rocky 2.
I hope that you enjoyed this look at
Rocky tube. If you want to write to
me and express your own opinion about Rocky
tea. You can do so by going too
much my website. You can find my contact
information there. I do recommend email. That's the
best way to get in touch with me
for anything that you want to discuss. My
Obviously, the next episode is going to be
(38:43):
covering 19 80 two's Rocky 3. Please click
the subscription button if you haven't done so
already, and you will get to hear. That
when it drops at some point in the
future.
Until then, thank you, everyone for listening and
continuing to join me
as we travel
around the world in eighties movies.
You think I beat him the last time?
Do?
You got the decision. Man, I won but
I didn't beat him.
What are you afraid how, Tony?
Honest.
Yeah honest.
He's all wrong for us, baby.
(00:21):
I saw you beat that man.
I can never saw no man get beat
before.
And the man kept coming after you.
We don't need that kind of man in
my life.
I know what you're feeling.
(00:55):
Hi. Welcome to around the world in these
movies. My name is Vince Leo. I am
the author of the film review website qui
dot net. I invite you to check out
all of my r work I'm doing film
reviews since the middle of the 19 nineties.
You can read them at k dot net
QWIPSTER
dot net While you're there, I do encourage
you to also check out the link that
(01:16):
goes to my other podcast. If you like
what you hear here, It's very similar and
it covers films of the 19 nineties
It's called to the nineties and beyond. You
can find that wherever you get your podcast
or you can click that link at qui
dot net. Today, I'm gonna be getting again
to the second part of this 4 part
series looking at the early
Rocky films.
(01:37):
Last episode, of course, we covered Rocky this
time,
What else? Rocky 2
and it came out just before the 19
eighties in June of 19 79.
Rocky 2 is also Ap g rated film.
It does have some violence as well as
language. The run runtime is just a little
under 2 hours long.
(01:57):
Obviously, we're gonna bring back the main cast
here sylvester alone, Talia Shire, We're just Meredith,
Bert young and Carl Weather.
Only this time, in addition to being the
screen rider, Sylvester Stall also takes the director's
chair.
Now the idea for a continuation to the
Rocky story actually came to Sylvester S mind
(02:18):
as they approached closer to completing production on
Rocky before it was ever released.
He was contemplating that he would like if
he could to make the Rocky story a
trilogy if it proved successful,
he felt it was too difficult to relate
the full story
of a man in just less than 2
hours. In fact, he felt it was a
(02:40):
tragedy that such a universally appealing a character
like Rocky would only have 2 hours of
life and then disappear forever.
Still idea for Tri
began when he was 15 years old and
you read James t fore else.
Studs Lawn Trilogy.
He also later read John Dos
Usa Trilogy. And he felt that these trilogy
(03:00):
greatly affected
his outlook not only on life, but also
his writing because he felt that these stories
endured by looking at characters in different ways
in 3 different parts of their lives.
Since Alone was 30 when he made Rocky
thought, you know, would be be cool to
actually check in on Rocky life at h
40
cinematic, and then maybe again at h 50.
(03:23):
Stalin felt he had kind of a way
to do it because in his original Rocky
scripts Stall had written a scene, and it
didn't actually get film, but there was a
scene where Rocky meets real life, Philadelphia, Mayor
Frank R
R invites Rocky to City Hall for a
photo op. And then
during their
interplay, he cha as rocky for his trouble
(03:43):
making history as a youth and
Now, ironically, Rocky is gonna be a role
model to all the street punk out there
and R asks Rocky about his plans for
his hundred and 50000 dollar prize for fighting
Apollo Creed. Rocky gl replies
He's gonna use that money to run for
Air.
Now Stall had discussions during this time with
(04:05):
the director of Rocky John A.
He discussed what Rocky life my actually be
like immediately after losing the title about. He
felt that, you know, a lot of different
companies would tried to take advantage of Rockies
newfound fame to promote their brands,
and the money that Rocky makes as a
pitch man for some of products would provide
(04:25):
additional seed money that he could use to
run for mayor,
and he could help the next generation of
rockies in Philadelphia.
He would run on the reform ticket, he
would promise to clean up the parks so
that kids could have a safe place to
play.
And meanwhile, Rocky would attend night school He
would try to elevate his education. He, of
(04:45):
course, would Marry Adrian. They would have a
son, and the climax of the second film
not be a fight, but actually the mayor
election in Philadelphia and Rocky
would ultimately
win that time.
Stone imagine that maybe the third film could
be more about Rocky difficulties trying to affect
changes as the mayor, and a sub plot
would involve Paul, Rocky brother law, getting caught
(05:07):
stealing from the city's treasury and then Rocky,
even though he's squeaky clean, he still gets
blamed he gets framed.
And then run out of office. And the
film would end with Rocky back, where we
first met him in the boxing ring at
the club that opens the first rocky he
would be older. He might be about 37
years old or so, but he would seem
(05:27):
happier to be in the boxing ring again.
And then the film would fade out as
the ring announcer announces.
And now the former mayor, of Philadelphia.
Now after Rocky became a massive.
Critical and commercial success,
Stall
didn't have to think about Rocky he had
hundreds of scripts coming his way. Now, unfortunately,
(05:49):
his next films proved to be stagnant comparatively
to Rocky.
The organized labor drama loosely based on the
life of Jimmy hof called Fifth
And then there was another film which stolen
wrote the original screen play for. Actually he
wrote it before he had written Rocky as
I discussed us the previous episode. This time,
it would mark his debut as a director
Paradise alley formerly called Hell's Kitchen. After these
(06:11):
films didn't do very well at the box
office in speculation started circulating around Hollywood that's
stall lone might be a 1 hit wonder,
and that really shattered Dillon self esteem to
start hearing about. Stall felt that he needed
a shore hit. If he was gonna keep
his dream The of being a big time
actor alive. And so he decided that there
(06:33):
was no sure thing
than making a sequel to Rocky as his
next picture Nest own overnight fame experience
dramatically changed his originally na perspective on what
Rocky life would be like. After losing the
title fight.
Stall observed that once you've tasted success, that
(06:54):
losing everything that you dreamt of ever achieving
and becoming a nobody again was really no
happy ending at all.
If the happiness really depended on him remaining
on top as an actor, surely Rocky happiness
meant, he really wanted to become the champion.
Once he had that that taste he could
almost be 1.
(07:14):
Still on being in as early thirties he's
felt that, you know, if he spaced these
things 3 years apart, maybe you might be
too old by the third film to play
a a champion boxer or he wanted. To
film the second and third entry simultaneously.
He claimed at the time it that there
would never be a rocky 4 to because
he felt that it would be embarrassing playing
the character
(07:35):
into old age. He didn't wanna be, like
the Bower boys where they were playing the
same characters they played in their youth into
their fifties and sixties.
Obviously, there's a lot of irony to what
he's saying back then If you follow the
Rocky saga ago, but his hope at that
time was to begin shooting by October of
19 77.
Still long contacted Rockies director John A again
(07:56):
about returning and doing go a sequel. Ava
at that time was busy with pre production
on Saturday night fever, and he couldn't commit,
but he did want to hear what Stone
had in mind. And after hearing it, he
said he objected to the intention of Rocky
fighting, again, especially Apollo Creed,
Because he felt that that was going to
be a cheap rehash to undermine the characters
(08:16):
that they had built up.
He didn't wanna see the Rocky series going
the way of the planet of the 8
series that, you know, critical acclaim and then
followed by a bunch of cheap knock. And
he especially really did not think Rocky should
fight Apollo again because audiences he felt were
not going to be as ready to root
for Rocky to win because he they had
(08:37):
already established that Apollo Creed was a classy
and dignified good guy by the end of
Rocky.
Ava suggested,
maybe instead,
they should concentrate on Rocky returning back to
poverty, trying to overcome his fading fame.
He would get into drugs. He would hustle
pull, to try to pay his debts and
(08:57):
Maybe that would be the struggle he would
overcome. But Stall argued at that time that
Rocky was not somebody who is self destructive.
He was a survivor.
He was a simple and good and naive
guy with a big heart, he would never
give up on his dreams.
Ava To still firmly that if Rocky was
gonna fight. Apollo again,
He should just find a new director.
(09:18):
Now still wrote his first draft in March
of 19 77, he entitled it Rocky returns.
He took what Ava said to heart, he
would try to avoid Rocky fighting Apollo again.
And the way to do that was to
have Apollo retire,
And then a new champion would be in
place. Still un con conflicted that the new
champion was a white heavyweight
(09:39):
goliath.
Named Clever Lang. K lang would be a
dreadful bully providing the worst example
for children.
Rocky can't stand seeing this guy as the
champion. He begs Apollo to un retire, come
out of retirement and knock k block off,
but Apollo at that time is doing way
too well He's too successful in is of
(10:00):
African business ventures. And he further re reports
that the American people have been clamoring for
a white box champion for so many decades.
And if Rocky doesn't like him, maybe he
should challenge him himself. So Rocky tries to
do that, he go with Clever lang to
try to accept fighting him. And they choose
a fight in Philadelphia,
but Mickey, the manager soon suffers a stroke
(10:22):
so Apollo agrees to become Rockies new manager,
and then the climax, a grueling brawl, 1
of the biggest brawl ever to take place
in the boxing ring
in the climax,
Rocky and at the end becomes just barely,
the new champion. Now despite there not being
a rem match with Apollo,
when Rocky went back to Ava he who
(10:43):
had just been taken off of Saturday night
fever, A again declined returning. Ava was really
disappointed here still with where stall was going.
And but he he did understand that the
phenomenal international success of Rocky
made breaking from the boxing 4 formula at
this point impossible. It was too big
(11:03):
to really gamble
by taking into an entirely different direction with
the character.
Unbeknownst stall, Ava also had a personal reason
for not doing Rocky. He had just begun
a romance with screen barr Grant, and he
wanted to direct grant script, slow dancing in
the big city as his next movie. Years
here though, Ava would
(11:24):
greatly regret this decision because the relationship with
the grant didn't last very long. Also the
film did not perform well at all,
and he feels that the... He could've have
easily postponed
slow dancing in the big city until after
he completed Rocky,
and that would have definitely increased his profile
and put him a in a much better
financial situation for the remainder of his career,
(11:46):
which had a lot of ups and downs.
If you follow Albert career.
Now with Albert out of the picture stall,
began reconsider the story,
he felt that the the larger than life
K lang that was somebody who was best
left for the final film and that Apollo
Creed should indeed challenge Rocky to a rem
match.
So the new story angle for his next
(12:07):
script carrying the title Rocky part 2
retribution. The action begins just a heartbeat after
the events of the original film. Apollo Creed
immediately in the hospital challenges Rocky to a
rem match because he feels he had been
just ema
in that title fight.
Although creed technically won, by decision, it was
a split decision and some spec spectators out
(12:29):
there thought,
was the 1 who should have won. So
Creed becomes absolutely obsessed with c Rocky to
get back in the ring and fight him,
and then
Creed was going to prove to all that
he was the worthy champion by destroying Ba
bo within the first couple of rounds. Now,
Rocky doesn't want any part of this. He
feels he he just would go into retirement
to do that for Adrian and move on
(12:51):
with his life. But as we see him
try to move on, he quickly burns through
whatever his earnings are after taxes and then
he finds himself unable to find another job
to support
himself an Adrian and a baby on the
way. And that would force Rocky to accept
Apollo challenge
upon which they would get back in the
ring for the climax once again, this time
Rocky winning.
(13:13):
Early versions of this new story angle had
the final ballot set in the Roman Coli,
stall wanted to add glamour to the series.
He he wanted to go big and Rocky
and Adrian
would stop in Paris for some of their
romantic scenes, and then they would move on
to Rome, and that would be where Rocky
begins his training. He would train very much
like he did in Philadelphia. He would train
(13:34):
around the streets of Rome. He would run
up and down. He would emulate to run
up the steps of the... Of the Philadelphia
art museum by running up the Spanish steps.
In rome.
It's still alone would get an audience with
the pope who bless his chances holy before
best Apollo
in the ring to become the new champ.
Someone hoped that John Paul the second would
actually appear, but if if he had to,
(13:56):
we would get a an actor to play
that role,
Ce aspirations deflate, though, when he learned that
using the Roman coli
as a movie location was absolutely a no
go,
There were other structures that they suggested that
were similar enough to that the Roman colosseum
that could stand in, like the arena of
N and the Greek theater of Tower men.
(14:18):
But United artists started bak because
all of this was going to be a
pricey premise and really didn't want a gamble
because the loans last 2 films fizz at
the box office. So stall
understanding this. He began reconsider again. He
by going for all this glamour, this this
big time action, he recognized that he was
(14:38):
removing just too many elements that made Rocky
who he is.
He wasn't gonna have the old philly guys
to talk to you around the neighborhood or
the street corner singers or really anything else
that made Rocky Rocky.
Rather than the... This
intercontinental jet setting film, hitting the big time,
still owns next revision he felt would be
modest He would shorten the title to Rocky
(14:59):
2
retribution.
He would have Rocky and Adrian just trying
to live a modest, but better life.
The Coli was something that would be better
off for the finale of the series,
the clever lang fight in rock 3.
Stall came up with the reason why Apollo
would want to fight Rocky in Philadelphia was
so Rockies
(15:21):
hometown crowd could see him get absolutely demolished.
Firsthand.
Now Stall did catch the directing bug after
he had helm paradise sally. Although he did
find that directing and starring and writing on
the same film was exhausting.
And he felt like doing that again, might
age him before his time.
So with the approval of producer Erwin Wink,
(15:42):
Stall decided, he should direct Rocky 2 with
Thomas J Wright.
Stall when handle the drama, wright was going
to handle the action and boxing sequences,
and that was primarily because the chore
of the fighting was just too precise to
be an actor in front of the camera
as well as try to direct it
(16:02):
behind the scenes to see how it was
all playing out as well. United artists weren't
really pleased that given the lackluster results of
Paradise Alley
to give Stall... The director's chair, but they
recognized they wanted the film made and they
wanted... It made quickly,
and they wanted to keep Stall a happy
camper.
Still loans approach when it came to directing
(16:23):
his dramatic scenes. He was going to try
to emulate the straightforward style of John A.
And because he wanted rocky tube to feel
because it was just a heartbeat away, it
would be a natural continuation straight after Rocky
he wasn't gonna get too stylish as he
did for Paradise sally.
Now, in the end, you see Stall, is
(16:43):
the only credited director that directors Guild of
America denied the c director credit. The bestowed
it only on s loan
and, Thomas J Wright had settle for a
technical consultant credit for his work directing the
boxing action.
Now, Casting took a lot longer than Stone
had anticipated. All of the principles expected more
(17:04):
nuanced roles this time out, and they all
wanted more money to come back. Talia Shire,
especially played hard to get. She made a
few character demands. For instance, she wanted Rocky
and Adrian to get married early and a
film because her mother, a devout Catholic was
upset when her favorite Catholic newspaper called out
the original rocky for depicting Raw and Adrian,
(17:26):
living in sin unmarried.
The production would also have to wait 2
months, so, Shire could finish your current project
called prophecy, joaquin which was shooting until September
of 19 78.
During the production, though, Shire stopped doing press
interviews because which She had started growing upset
about the sal solutions coverage of her separation,
and then soon to be divorced from her
(17:47):
music,
compose her husband David. Shire.
Rumors also began circulating that Talia Shire had
been dating prophecy director John Frank,
although she maintained publicly that their were just
good friends.
Bert Young, he was not going to commit
until he saw a completed script. Once he
did he did approve and he did sign
(18:07):
on or although the film begins seconds after
the first film ends,
Poly, though is noticeably slimmer in Rocky 2.
There's no
explanation as to why, although he would just
lose pounds
from the end of, the Rocky fight to
being at the hospital.
Now 1 speculation, this is only my personal
speculation is that Bert Young was trying to
(18:29):
look his best
because as he said, many years later that
he was absolutely sm. He was in love
with Talia Shire while they were making looking
king rocky even though they play brother and
sister,
he really was in love with young and
he felt. All throughout his life, he still
was, looking Young also was so by Shire.
He cast her as his wife in the
(18:49):
19 78 Tv movie that he wrote himself
called Daddy. I don't like it like. This.
Much of Polly role though
involving criminal acts that he would perform for
the loan chart, Tony Ga, they were trimmed
out of the final shooting script.
Burgess Meredith
absolutely did not wanna return initially. He felt
that the Rocky story had already been told,
(19:10):
and there was really nothing more to say,
plus the as it was scheduled, was going
to conflict with his
promotional obligations for the film he had done
called Magic.
You Meredith did have a change of heart.
S was very 10 donations about getting him
board. And he showed him the script and
Meredith did conclude that there was a he
maybe more to say in the Rocky story,
(19:32):
and he agreed, and he actually was very
enthusiastic about coming back in the end.
Carl Weather also was very skeptical about coming
back, especially when he found out this... The
loan was going to be the director, but
he did sign on because he did see
in the script increased complexity
in creed character, he would be able to
show the seriousness behind the Show, and also
(19:54):
that look at his family life. It did
take some time for whether to trust at
sloan knew what was best as a director,
especially even when Stall wanted them to actually
hit each other during the boxing match to
add realism to the to the bout.
The realism actually did
increase because they they grew very frustrated with
each other while they were boxing, sometimes,
(20:15):
that would be very visible on the screen.
They would actually hit each other and hurt
each other And despite some personal friction, whether
is calls alone. In the end, the best
director he he'd ever worked for because Stalin
generally gave weather space to do some real
acting and breathe further life into the role
as he saw fit. Now that realism also
led to other issues,
(20:36):
For instance, 1 of Stall Spa partners was
former lightweight champion Roberto Duran.
Stall was much bigger than Duran in terms
of his, is bulk. And he felt he
could kinda cut loose and give
Duran a few shots, but still soon realize
he was just an actor. You can never
be a real boxer or Duran retaliate with
(20:56):
some
powerful and blazing fast punches. Stalin would regularly
have to talk to the interpreter. To tell
Duran not to hit so hard.
Duran found still owns protest stations very amusing
personally because he felt he was actually holding
back. He was barely hitting him according to
him. Maybe maybe that's why Duran durant nickname
his hands of stone. He doesn't realize just
how heavy he hits. But the loan decided
(21:18):
take to wear head gear throughout their spa
sessions because he felt that Dora duran would
often forget. Boxer Chuck We, the original inspiration
for Rocky. He was slot for a role.
To play Rockies spa partner. He was gonna
be called Chin Weber
instead of chuck weapon.
The part would be more than Cameo
weapon says it was about 32 lines that
(21:38):
he would have to remember. Weapon did come
in to read for an audition, but,
we was not a natural actor. Had never
acted before. He wasn't a good 1, and
he had been heavily drinking
coming in to try to calm his nerves.
And he ended up bombing the audition. Stall
alone told him to go back and practice
and return when he was sober and W
(21:59):
did, but he's still absolutely stun. And eventually,
as still continued to work through revisions about
3 weeks prior to the shoot We received
the call from the producers,
that his part was cut.
There is a character still called Chin in
the movie,
but he only has a couple of lines
mostly
agonizing Rocky around Mickey gym,
(22:20):
but a little bit of trivia here if
you follow your still movies he did reuse
the name Chin Weber,
about a decade later,
Sunday Land played the role in the 19
89 film lock up where there is a
character named Chin Weber.
Now the budget for Rocky 2 was set
at 7600000.0
dollars that was over 7 times the budget
(22:41):
for the first film then that was partially.
Because everybody's asking price obviously had gone up,
but also, they were gonna film in Philadelphia
this time legitimately.
Unlike the last time where they didn't have
any permits and they went with non union
crew. They had to pay the piper this
time out.
Stall would receive scale because in its contract
for the first film He had option his
acting salary for any follow ups. But for
(23:03):
riding and directing to stall decided to front
load it, he wanted a million dollars and
5 percent of the gross. United artist did
ba at this, they felt that this was
way too much, you know, know, million dollars
was a huge price for anybody. At the
time,
Negotiations did go on for a long time,
but finally, United artists found themselves under completely
(23:23):
new management.
During the
negotiations. A lot of the top brass leaving
to form Orion pictures, and the new brass
came in, and they basically gave stall loan
whatever he wanted to get Rocky too.
Now in order to train his body for
the film, stall decided to get together with
Doctor Franco Kale columbus,
the Sa strong man. He was a major
(23:44):
body builder or former mister Europe, mister World,
mister Olympia, mister Universe. And he wanted to
use his services to get into the best
shape of his life, you know, with these
long 90 minute weight lifting sessions. Eventually, he
would add about 2 inches to his biceps.
Meanwhile stall also recruited the services of veteran
boxing trainer A Sa,
and he was hired there to develop Stall
(24:05):
and whether... Also to physical shape for boxing,
weather
had come back from Yugoslavia, he had made
force 10 from Nav there He was he
was pretty much out of shape. He was
much heavier than he would like, and he
had indulge in a little too much rich
food and drink while he was in Europe,
and after working with,
he really got rid of pretty much all
(24:25):
of the body fat could
drop about 15 pounds and put on muscle.
Giovanni was really
impressed with weather and he, in fact, stated
that weather would have had the talent and
determination to be a very good boxer,
probably would have been a championship boxer if
he had decided to go that route earlier
in life.
Unfortunately,
(24:45):
during the workouts, and injury did nearly derail
the entire production of Rocky tube. And it
occurred winds stall alone, suffered a massive tear
of his p alice major, the muscle under
the front of the shoulder that anchors, the
ribs that hold the arm in place.
Doctor K had challenged stall to a bench
press competition to really get a motivated and
(25:07):
still
eventually attempted to lift more than his body
could apparently take, and he heard a loud
pop, and he felt intense pain, immediately in
the veins in his arm doubled in size
and they nearly turned black. After a visit
to the hospital took about a hundred and
60 stitches and this nylon attachment cable through
his
(25:28):
shoulder bone to keep the,
arm in place for 2 months as it
healed
But in the meantime, stall had no lateral
movement in his arm, and he could only
really kind of jab
and upper cut. And Stall sloan faced with
having to postpone and maybe even cancel the
movie meant to Salvage his career at the
insurance company's insistence.
(25:49):
He had to come up with a solution
in in a hurry about how to rest
stage the fight scene to try to compensate
for his inability to throw a proper punch.
Especially any kind of hook or lateral punch.
So
his idea was that Rocky would have to
have a reason to fight right handed instead.
So
stall con contracted that Rocky would have this
(26:10):
eye injury
that he had incurred suffering too many hits
to the head from Apollo creed.
That could render rocky blind if he took
any more blows to that side of his
face. So
in the new revised script
Rocky manager Vicky comes up with his game
plan to try to protect Rockies eye and
(26:31):
also try to throw creed off balance in
the title fight,
by having Rocky switch from South Paul to
right handed, and then,
as a as a ploy, he would switch
back to South Paul in later rounds.
So that was a new story angle that
Stall would work in. As his arm was
on the mend,
(26:51):
Stall started jab,
into a heavy bag repeatedly
until he was able to switch from South
Paul to a more standard style, that would
be realistic for the final fight Now the
climactic fight was going to be held at
the Philadelphia spectrum in the movie, the Los
Angeles Sports Arena substituted for
Philadelphia spectrum.
Stall wanted this to be the first thing
(27:12):
that they filmed because he wanted to work
with his editors
and make sure that they had plenty of
time to edit it to perfection.
Still on watch the an actual heavyweight bio
between Larry Holmes and Ken Norton, and he
decided to pattern the fifteenth and final round
of the film fight based on the fifteenth
and final round of the holmes Norton fight,
(27:33):
which took place in June of 19 78,
Stalin felt that that final round of the
holmes Norton fight was 1 of the most
siding final rounds he you'd ever seen, which
had both boxer looking absolutely dead on their
feet, but neither refusing to fall down,
and they were both willing to give everything
they had left to win. Stalin also wanted
the final fights punches to fly twice as
(27:54):
fast and line twice as hard as first
film because he wanted audiences
to see how brutal boxing actually could be
and to sense pain with every hit. Sometimes
there punches which often landed would escalate into
retaliation between the actors.
For instance, 1 day, stall got absolutely frustrated,
and then he cl weather right below his
belt to which weather responded not only with
(28:17):
pain with but with a lot of anger
of its own, they eventually had to a
break from each other and then recon
to try to talk things out before they
were gonna continue on with the the rest
of the shoot.
Production was also halted for a spell when
stall alone
collapsed in the ring from a exhaustion. Medics
had to come in and administer
oxygen and some shots of vitamin b 12
(28:38):
and stall opted still to continue the next
day because they had paid for 1800 extras
to come in, but he still was too
weak in rec to dodge about 70 direct
hits from weather throughout the rest of that
day, and stall engaged during these fights a
lot of trauma to his body, weather would
pound him physically
(29:00):
and and during the filming of that climactic
about
still suffered broken ribs. He had an ailing
shoulder. He had a bruised kidney. He had
enlarged intestines. He was just really jacked up
for a long time afterward. So still long
continue to edit the the fight while he
was still directing scenes for the remainder of
Rocky 2.
Sometime during late September of 78 or early
(29:22):
January 19 79 still on started growing deeply
dissatisfied with the way that the final moments
of the film. 3 occurred. So he decided
he needed to do something. He ordered additional
shooting, and that included an alternate ending, so
3000 extras were brought back into the sports
arena,
all of the principal actors were called in
(29:43):
over there. Adrian Poly, who were originally scripted
and shot as watching the title bout on
television to not only look after Rocky Junior
and who was an infinite at the time,
but Adrian was also rating after her
hospitalization and from exhaustion and slipping into a
coma, But in this new shoot for an
alternate ending, Poly and Adrian, would actually attend
(30:04):
the fight in person,
Poly would be seen rooting Rocky from Rocky
corner, Adrian would be watching from a afar
in the arena much as she did in
the first Rocky.
And when Rocky ultimately wins Adrian runs enthusiastic
up to the ring to celebrate his victory.
Rocky receives the championship belt. Adrian takes a
(30:24):
hold of it and listen up in the
air, and then he lifts her up in
the air upon which fans storm the ring
and lift both of them up in the
air on their shoulders.
Even though they shot this new ending, in
the end, stall decided to stick with his
originally scripted ending for reasons.
That aren't quite known, but in more recent
years, Stalin has talked about the ending of
(30:45):
Rocky 2 very fondly that the ending that
he went with actually brings some to tears
every time he sees it. So obviously, he
had a change of heart about how good
the ending of Rocky 2 actually is.
And during this time had a lot of
relationship issues of his own, his marriage with
his wife Sasha,
it was strained. In fact, she was suing
him at time, but it ended up getting
(31:06):
on the man shortly before production,
sloan had had an affair with his paradise
Ali Costa Jo Ing
the Sasha at the time told slide to
do what he had to do, but not
to really come back to her until he
was ready to be her husband again.
After the Ing affair was over in March
of 19 78,
Stall did reconcile with Sasha.
(31:26):
Sasha soon found out during the production that
she was pregnant with his second child,
despite the
reconciliation, stall did
eventually walk out on Sasha again, after the
film's release
to be with the also married Susan Anton
who he had met in also in January
of 19 79 when they appeared together, to
(31:46):
film an episode of the Mu show.
Now 1 of the things that Sal had
intended for the first Rocky
was
in 1 of the runs... Through Philadelphia that
would ultimately culminate in going up the steps
at the Philadelphia Art Museum was to have
kids on the second time he did it
run alongside him.
They weren't able to do it for the
(32:07):
first film because it was going to draw
too much attention to their gorilla style non
union Philadelphia shoot. But he decided to do
it for Rocky 2, so they placed ads
in the newspapers to have kids,
come out and run with Rocky,
and they were inundated with hundreds of kids,
mostly with teens,
some of them happen to be
(32:28):
great runners. They were in track clubs like
the Philadelphia strider.
They started running way too fast and they
ran ahead of rocky
through the scenes, even beating him up the
steps, and he felt that that just was
not gonna work. So they decided to res
shoot that, and the next time, he kept
the age to age 9 and under
to keep the kids from overtaking him during
(32:48):
the run. There was a a couple of
cut. 1 involved Rocky visiting and then receiving
an honorary diploma from Lincoln High school. That
was cut. Rocky reveals during the scene that
he dropped out of school in the ninth
raid to become a boxer. As for the
final fight, it took about 3 weeks to
actually shoot the whole thing. As I mentioned,
still on spent a long time wanting to
(33:08):
edit it. And in fact, it took about
8 months, like way longer than he had
intended he kept wanting to tweak it. He
used slow motion. He added sound effects. He
wanted to increase the impact of of every
blow
because the lone surmise that a failure with
this franchise
that made him a star would probably be
(33:29):
AT0
to his career. And he knew that the
final fight was where all of the emotions
were finally be be released, and he wanted
to have audiences leaving the theater with something
that best the original
beyond just the satisfaction of Rocky winning the
title. In fact, Stall was still working on
the film with just a month ago prior
(33:49):
to its June 50 19 79 release date.
And the reason why you can tell that
Stalin was still working on this film then
who's because Still Son, Sergio was born on
May seventh teeth, so less than a month
before the release date, and still put him
in the film as the infant Rocky junior
At this time, Talia Shire, she left the
(34:11):
last 2 weeks of production for this other
movie she was working on at the time
called Cork.
It was released into theaters under a new
title called windows a little bit later.
The production of Cork claimed that Shire was
leaving because She had German measles that probably
was to recoup some insurance money on her
departure, but she did come into film Adrian
(34:32):
hospital... Scene. Obviously, if she had german measles,
why would she be there holding still owns
infant son,
they re out some additional hospital scenes involving
Adrian little producer Erwin Wink sent representatives finally
to Telstra
to let it go, make sure that they
had film ready to go by the June
fifteenth release date. And now also in May,
(34:53):
in order to promote the film, still on
had,
30 minute Tv promotional special for Cbs called
Rockies people, and that would feature the original
cast discussing their roles,
Someone also wrote a novel normalization for Rocky
2, the novel,
also features some of the scenes they got
cut from the final film. The novel, which
is very interesting if you read it because
(35:14):
it's told mostly in the first person
as if Rocky were writing it, and he
uses a lot of his trademark mangled English.
Scenes that don't involve Rocky are also in
the book, but they are told not from
Rocky, they were told in the third person
using standard English.
Now Rocky 2 when it was finally and
released,
it was a major hit. It earned over
(35:35):
80000000 dollars in the Us alone and about
200000000 dollars
worldwide.
That resuscitate
stella career just when it was on life
support. So it did the job that stall
had intended to do. As far as what
I think about Rocky 2, You know, I
feel like it's probably the most unfairly overlooked
entry in the Rocky series. It's not as
(35:55):
good as the first by any means. It's
not as flashy as the later entries. So
a lot of people do
tend to forget about it when they think
about the Rocky films. I do think that
for a formula film, it it adhere to
the best of the first film's formula in
terms of giving us ample character development.
It develops Rocky underdog status yet again, scenes
(36:16):
of intense training, the thrilling box finale. They're
all there. Maybe not as satisfying as the
first time out, but still satisfying. I do
think it does fall short
because it doesn't explore a lot more than
we would expect from a formula film, In
fact, the first scene that you see the
film, which is a replay of the first
film's ending. That actually has for people who've
already watched the first film more excitement than
(36:38):
anything.
That is newly delivered here by alone.
But nevertheless, I do think that there are
plenty of goods that are still delivered to
satisfy Rocky. Saga fans.
As a director stall alone really is not
quite up to the more experienced Ava natural
eye in terms of scenery and tight editing,
but still on knows his characters through and
(36:59):
through, and you get some some additional nuance
here that makes some of their seeing still
quite compelling even though we know where it's
ultimately going to go. There's some maturation there
for those characters.
Adrian grows more inner strength in the relationship
with Rocky. Mickey becomes much more demanding, Apollo
Creed
gets consumed by the same ego that probably
(37:19):
was responsible for propelling him to championship status
to begin with. In the end, even though
we still like Apollo Creed, we can see
that that cons... Assumption by his ego, puts
them on a bad route, so we still
root for rocky. The victory is not quite
as sweet as the first film because Rocky
goals here are not quite as noble as
the first time because he's really putting his
(37:39):
health on the line. He's putting his relationship
with adrian on the line.
For this payday to get himself out of
a financial hold that he got himself into.
But still, it's a very satisfying film even
though it it dips into heavy mel drama
at times, there's some redundant emotional beats as
well.
There's some good humor there. There's some good
drama there. It doesn't step outside of the
shadow of its predecessor.
It's not quite a knockout out, like the
(38:01):
original rocky, but I do think that it's
still packs enough punch to win in the
end by decision. And that's why I give
Rocky,
2, 3 and a half stars out of
4, and 3 half stars. On my skill
means that I do think that Rocky 2
is a good film, and I definitely recommend
it for people who enjoy the original Rocky
who wants see a respectable
continuation. So 3 and a half stars out
(38:23):
of 4 is what I give Rocky 2.
I hope that you enjoyed this look at
Rocky tube. If you want to write to
me and express your own opinion about Rocky
tea. You can do so by going too
much my website. You can find my contact
information there. I do recommend email. That's the
best way to get in touch with me
for anything that you want to discuss. My
Obviously, the next episode is going to be
(38:43):
covering 19 80 two's Rocky 3. Please click
the subscription button if you haven't done so
already, and you will get to hear. That
when it drops at some point in the
future.
Until then, thank you, everyone for listening and
continuing to join me
as we travel
around the world in eighties movies.
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