August 16, 2023 • 39 mins
Discover the fascinating world of search and rescue missions in our captivating conversation with Dan Patterson, a founding member of the Mountaineer Area Rescue Group. With over 26 years of experience and participation in more than 300 missions, Dan shares invaluable insights into the immense planning, coordination, and dedication required to save lives in the great outdoors. You won't want to miss his incredible stories of both heart-wrenching and heartwarming outcomes.
Learn about the qualifications and backgrounds of the Mountaineer Area Rescue Group volunteers, as well as the latest technology and processes they use to plan and execute these critical missions. From drones and GPS systems to maps and compasses, the group is dedicated to staying ahead of the game in locating and rescuing missing persons. Hear about the challenges they face in the wilderness, and how they're often called upon to assist with logistics and communications in other emergencies.
Finally, explore the rewarding feeling of reuniting a missing person with their family, and take away some valuable tips for hikers to stay safe on the trails. With Dan's expertise in navigating the rugged outdoors, you'll gain a deeper appreciation for the passion and dedication of these search and rescue heroes. Join us for an eye-opening look into the world of wilderness search and rescue, and the incredible volunteers who make it their mission to save lives.
Mountaineer Area Rescue Group Links
MARG Website
EMS Joins Forces with Mountaineer Area Rescue Group (article)
Mountaineer Area Rescue Group in the news (article)
Search and Rescue in the United States
Assorted Conversations Links
Assorted Conversations Facebook Page
- Stay up-to-date on podcast happenings and share them with your friends
Assorted Conversations Podcast Facebook Community
- A collaborative and supportive community for you to engage with us, our guests and other listeners
- Share your passion, network and connect as we all pursue what makes us happy.
- Exclusive behind-the-scenes content and info
- Special online events for community members
Follow us on Twitter
Follow us on Instagram
Support Assorted Conversations on Buy Me a Coffee
Say hello or ask a question: aconvospod@gmail.com
Credits
Music Credit: True Living by Patrick Moore
Royalty free music license purchased at soundotcom.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Helen (00:10):
Every day people following their passions.
Maureen (00:14):
That's probably like one of the highlights of my life
so far Just being able to becreative like that, something
I've always wanted.
Helen (00:23):
And then I decided to get another hive and that turned
into a lot of hives.
As long as I can do that, iwant to be a good citizen and
help people out, puttingthemselves out there, taking
chances and navigatingchallenges along the way.
I absolutely identified withhaving stage fright, because any
(00:45):
time I went on stage I justfelt like I was having a hot
attack.
Dan Patterson (00:47):
Very first lap, very first practice session.
I crashed, Turned the carupside down, made a spectacle of
myself And I got back on thathorse and started riding again.
Helen (00:57):
As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them joy,
as long as people are having agood time and I have the
opportunity to put smiles onpeople's faces.
Maureen (01:07):
I love what I do.
Helen (01:09):
I have done things that I never thought I could do.
This is Assorted Conversations,and I'm your host, helen.
Hey, welcome if you'relistening for the first time and
welcome back if you're tuningin again.
Thanks for being here.
This week's conversation issomething Maureen and I got to
(01:32):
record a while back and we'rejust releasing it now.
If you've ever experienced thepanic of being lost in the
wilderness, like I have, or thefear and the anxiety that comes
with somebody being separatedfrom your group, whether you're
hiking, taking a walk or camping, we go behind the scenes this
(01:57):
week with a founding member ofthe Mountaineer Area Rescue
Group.
Dan Patterson has 26 years ofexperience as a volunteer for
this group And he shares storiesof some of the search and
rescue missions.
He's been on the amount ofplanning that goes into an
(02:20):
effective and successful searchand rescue mission, and he also
shares that his love and hisknowledge of the great outdoors
has helped him execute over 300search and rescue missions.
I'm telling you after thisconversation, there isn't
anybody in the world I wouldtrust more than Dan to come find
(02:42):
me when I get lost, and it willhappen.
So take a listen to this week'sepisode and I'll see you on the
other side.
This week's guest has spent thelast 26 years as a member of the
Mountaineer Area Rescue Group.
(03:03):
The group is a volunteer searchand rescue organization
dedicated to finding and savinglives in the wilderness of Ohio
and West Virginia.
We are happy to have with usDan Patterson.
Welcome to AssortedConversations, dan, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Maureen (03:21):
Oh, it's great to have you, dan, with 26 years under
your belt, how was it that yougot started in doing search and
rescue work?
Dan Patterson (03:31):
Well, a couple of years before I got started,
there was a search for a younggirl in the area And we
volunteered a couple of us to gohelp search and it was very
unorganized.
The people running the searchdidn't know what they were doing
And, as a result, the younggirl passed away And when she
was found out later where shewas, it really wasn't necessary
(03:54):
that that happened And severalof us said, hey, you know, we
need to get some training hereand put together a team.
Fortunately, one of the peoplethat was in there knew of a team
in the Pittsburgh area and of aconference And they kind of
took us under their wing andhelped us get started.
Maureen (04:12):
So out of that tragic situation you got involved in
creating a group just to dothings in a manner that would
really benefit anybody who couldbe in these circumstances.
Dan Patterson (04:25):
That's correct And a lot of people don't
realize when you have a search,how involved with planning and
figuring out you know where tosearch.
There's no use to wasteresources looking in a place
that a person isn't going to be.
So there's a lot of training toteach you how to set up a
search.
Helen (04:42):
Dan, what kind of background or skills did you
have that that lent themselvesto you starting the group and
kind of assessing the situationand discovering that need Well?
Dan Patterson (04:55):
it wasn't just me , there was about five of us and
we were all outdoor orientedpeople.
I mean, i'd been all throughthe Boy Scouts and love the
outdoors and hiking and climbingand that sort of stuff, and
since the entire group seemed tohave a lot of background in the
outdoors, we figured that'swhere we could best be used.
Maureen (05:15):
So what are some of the things that you do as far as
planning and developing astrategy for searching for
somebody who's outlawed?
Dan Patterson (05:26):
Well, one of the first things we do is we do
what's called a lost personquestionnaire.
It's about seven pages long.
We'll have someone sit downwith a family member or a friend
or whoever saw the person last,and we'll go through and we'll
ask them pertinent questionsabout them.
You know, are they outdoororiented?
Do they carry things with themlike a flashlight when they go
for a hike?
What were they wearing?
(05:47):
What might have been the reasonfor them to be out in the woods
where they were?
Were they hunting, you know,ginseng or other plants?
Were they hunting?
Were they just hiking?
And we'll get kind of abackground on the person.
And then what we'll do is we'llstart at what we call the last
known point or the last pointscene, which might be the
(06:07):
person's vehicle that's parkedwhere they stopped to go for a
hike Or where somebody actuallysaw the person.
And hopefully from that we canget what we call a direction of
travel.
Because if we just have asingle point, we've got 360
degrees to search from, and ifwe don't know where they're
going from, obviously, ifthey're traveling at two miles
(06:30):
an hour, the area we have tosearch gets exponentially larger
the longer they're gone.
So we try to narrow it down toa direction of travel and get
just a wedge of that circle tostart on to concentrate on.
Maureen (06:41):
How are you notified or what's the process for your
team to be called in?
Dan Patterson (06:47):
We can only be called in by what we call an
authority having jurisdiction orresponsible authority.
That would be any lawenforcement.
It could be in the state ofWest Virginia, a fire department
, a park ranger, that sort ofthing And what they do is they
contact the 911 center in eitherMontaguella or Preston County
(07:08):
and they will page us out.
We have a program on our phones, called I Am Responding, and
they will contact whoever is thedispatch person.
For that time Dispatch personwill get the information about
the lost person, where they'reat, you know how old the person
is, what we're looking for, Andthen they are able to send out a
group page, if you will, overthe phone, that gives us the
(07:29):
description where we need to go,whether it's you know what the
weather forecast is for the next24 hours, all that sort of
information.
And then we can respond on ourphone and say, yes, I'm on my
way to the search.
I won't be able to be theretill you know tomorrow or eight
hours if I'm working, becausewe're all volunteers.
And then the dispatch has thison his computer and he can see
who's responding to the searchand let whoever's running the
(07:52):
search know hey, you're going toget some more resources here in
a few hours, or this is what wehave.
Helen (07:57):
Dan, are there steps to a rescue mission?
Dan Patterson (08:03):
Well, as far as rescue goes, I guess that kind
of depends on what the rescue isIf we've already found or, i'm
sorry, maybe I should have saidsearch and rescue.
Helen (08:14):
Well, yeah, there's definitely.
You got to find them first.
Dan Patterson (08:17):
There's definitely steps to the search
And unfortunately it seems likehurry up and wait a lot of times
because everybody shows up andthey're ready and anxious to go
out in the woods But we don'tyet have areas to search.
You know, we don't want to justsend people running through the
woods, we want to use ourresources wisely because we
don't always have that manypeople.
So the people in planning willtake all the information they
(08:41):
have and they will look at thetopographical maps of the area
and they will segment what theyconsider high priority or high
probability areas based on, youknow, do we know?
this person walks slow, theywalk fast.
How old are they?
What were they doing?
Are they, you know, walkingdown a particular trail and will
(09:02):
segment it into about 40 acres.
And then we will assign teamswith a field team leader and
they're able to go out to thoseareas and search them, keep in
touch with us radio and let usknow if they found anything or
if they haven't or, you know,whatever their status is out
there, and we'll systematicallycheck what we call the high
(09:23):
probability areas and work ourway out.
Maureen (09:26):
So what would you say, Dan, is some of the keys to a
successful search?
What are the things that aremost important for the search to
be successful?
Dan Patterson (09:38):
Well, one of the big things that we have a
problem with is keeping the lastknown point pristine.
People always want to run up tothe person's car and look
inside and they walk around it.
We've had fire departments inyears past that would come right
to the spot and park theirtrucks there and keep it running
.
So now we've got all the dieselfumes in the area so dogs can't
(10:00):
pick up any scent, and peoplethat have gone there and handled
the vehicle and walked aroundit.
They put so many tracks.
it makes it difficult for oursign cutters and man trackers to
find a direction of travel.
So I'd say the very first stepis trying to keep that area
pristine.
Maureen (10:18):
You don't think about that when you're just finding or
looking for somebody and you'reanxious about them.
So that's important informationfor people to have.
Do people have to have certainqualifications to be part of a
search team?
Dan Patterson (10:33):
Well, our team is all volunteers and we've grown
to about 50 people at this pointin time, probably 30 of which
are really active, but they comefrom all walks of life.
I mean, we have people that areoutdoors people.
We have people that arebusiness people.
There are several people in themedical field.
We have students from the localuniversity.
Anybody with any desire toactually help out has a position
(10:56):
.
They may not even be able to beout in the field, but if they
can program GPS's or work on thecomputer programs that we use,
that sort of thing, you knowwe've got a place for everybody.
Maureen (11:07):
And you had mentioned that you do training with people
, correct?
Dan Patterson (11:10):
I'm currently the training officer and we bring
people in.
A lot of people have no cluewhatsoever about the outdoors,
but they want to help.
So when we first bring them in,there's several things they
need to do.
They have to understand ourbylaws and what we do, and you
know.
They get a course on what wecan do legally and what we can't
(11:30):
, and you know different thingsthey have to watch out for in
the woods.
We want to make sure thatthey're not a danger to
themselves or someone else.
So they get some basic trainingthere.
There's a couple of courses thatFEMA puts out on the National
Incident Management System, orNIMS, that we require them to
take online because that's theway all incidents work anymore
(11:50):
And they need to understand thedifference between, you know,
incident command or planning oroperations and logistics that
sort of thing.
Helen (11:57):
Dan, could you explain a little bit more about that
incident command system, likewhat's the hierarchy and the
organization of it And why it'sso important?
Dan Patterson (12:10):
It's imagine a flowchart with your incident
commander at the very top, andthen it branches down to several
other areas where you mighthave a couple of small branches
off of the incident commander,like maybe a deputy commander or
family liaison or publicinformation officer, and then it
drops down into planning, whereyou're planning how you're
(12:30):
going to run the operation.
You have operations.
That actually puts the plansinto use.
You have logistics, andlogistics provides the material,
people and everything else foroperations to do.
There's also a finance section,but since we're all volunteers,
we never have finance sectionfor any of ours.
Maureen (12:52):
You never see those people, huh?
Dan Patterson (12:54):
No, we never get that Years ago people out west
would be calling for a tanker ina wildfire And what they were
talking about was an airlinetanker, and people in the east
who didn't have those kinds offires thought it meant a tanker
truck.
So there was a lot of mess upbetween these larger incidents
where people were misconstruingwhat was requested or asked of
(13:17):
them and everything else.
So it started off with thewildland fires with the NIMS
system, and it was developed tohandle all of the emergencies
and operations across the UnitedStates to use that particular
system.
So there would be continuity.
Maureen (13:32):
A standardization of it all.
Dan Patterson (13:34):
Yeah, i was going to say the nice thing about it
is you can start off small, ifyou only have a few people there
, and you can expand it as thesearch grows, and then you can
contract it again.
I mean, the system is veryflexible.
Helen (13:45):
Yeah, i work for a utility company and when we have
a big storm, we use the exactsame system, and it's so.
We're all speaking the samelanguage and there are dedicated
groups to specific tasks.
Yet all of our efforts areworking toward the same end goal
(14:06):
, right?
We just all have a differentrole Yep.
Dan Patterson (14:10):
So we want the new people to understand how
that system works, and then werequire them to have a call-out
pack which contains certainessential items that they'll
need for being out.
We are self-sustaining for 48hours with our packs, so they
need to have flashlight,headlamp, a pocket knife, some
sort of shelter, food.
(14:32):
We require them to have medicalgloves and also leather gloves
if they're doing a rescueeventually with rope work Just
the certain essentials that aperson would need in order to be
self-sufficient out in thewoods for 48 hours.
Maureen (14:45):
It occurs to me that over 26 years, the types of
technology and the processesyou've used have changed
considerably over the timeperiod.
No idea.
Dan Patterson (14:56):
I'll give you an example.
When we first started, all wehad was regular Topo maps and
when we draw the segments on itwe would lay a sheet of acetate
over top of it and tape it down.
So we could write on theacetate where the areas were.
And then somebody had totransfer that to a copy of the
map for the team to take out andtransfer the segment onto that.
(15:17):
And if a search was going onovernight, somebody had to stay
up all night long and beplanning for the next morning.
So we had it to go.
Well, we had a search here acouple months ago and we were in
the middle of a national forest, middle of nowhere, and we were
in our truck.
We have computer systems inthere that automatically print
(15:39):
out the segments that we tell itto, and it prints out our task
assignment forms.
It gives all the information tothe team leaders that they need
.
And when it came to planningthat night it was about two
o'clock when we stopped.
Normally somebody would bestaying up all night doing the
planning, but we now have what'scalled remote planning.
We had a hotspot and there weresix other people online on a
(16:00):
meeting not like this, where Ithink one guy was in Missouri,
one was in Virginia.
I know one guy was in Hawaii.
I don't know if they were allyou know search team members.
We gave them what we needed.
We went to sleep, they stayedup, they did the planning, they
set it back to our computer.
When we came in the nextmorning we had our assignments
ready to go.
So, yes, it's changed a lot.
Maureen (16:23):
Oh, my God, that's amazing, okay, as a person who
still remembers what paper mapslook like and use them back in
my childhood.
okay, dan, it is fascinating tome that not only are you using
the technology, but you're usingpeople in other time zones, who
aren't even familiar with thearea, to just go ahead and map
(16:45):
everything out for you.
Dan Patterson (16:47):
And we do use technology like GPS and some of
the systems on our telephonesand we can actually see the
people on the map in real timewhere the teams are.
But my team kind of gets upsetwith me because I still make
them learn how to do it withjust a map and compass, because
sometimes technology fails.
Maureen (17:04):
I think that's great, because I'm forever in a place
where you go.
I have no signal.
Dan Patterson (17:09):
Well then, that happens with GPS's, but maps and
compasses don't fail.
Maureen (17:14):
Right, Right.
But you know what the BoyScouts have done you good.
Dan Patterson (17:18):
Yeah.
Helen (17:21):
Dan, are you, is the group using drone technology at
all?
Yes, we are.
Dan Patterson (17:28):
We just started.
A couple of years ago They hada problem where they were
calling us a commercial venueand said we couldn't use the
drones because it was acommercial venue without having
licensed pilots.
I suppose the people that aredoing it for recreation which we
kind of argued because weweren't getting any money or
anything out of it, we wereusing it to save lives But now
(17:50):
we have three different licenseddrone pilots and we do use the
drones.
Sometimes It's a little bitdifficult in our very wooded
area to see down through thecanopy, but if there's a marshy
or swampy area that would beridiculous for a person to try
to wade through, we can hoverover that and search for the
drones.
Maureen (18:10):
How often do you have a call for a search and or a
rescue?
Dan Patterson (18:16):
Two or three times a month, i would say on
average no-transcript.
Although we do wildernesssearch, we do some in West
Virginia when I call it asuburban area it's half houses
and half, you know, woodlands,so we do that.
We have occasionally hadsearches in urban areas not very
(18:40):
often.
The authorities will call us alot of times to help out with
logistics and communications onother emergencies.
We had a blizzard come througha few years ago.
There was no power and we wentand helped move people from a
nursing home to a heated firehall, that sort of thing.
So we're willing to help outwherever we're needed.
Helen (18:57):
Oh, that's great.
Maureen (19:00):
Wow.
Helen (19:02):
Dan, in your tenure with the group, how many search and
rescue missions do you thinkyou've been involved with?
Dan Patterson (19:14):
I've been on close to 300.
The group's been close to five.
You can't go Wow.
Everybody's able to go to everysearch, for whatever reason.
We're all volunteers, So that'swhy we like to have a large
group.
We can usually field a fewpeople.
You know it's a work day andsomebody's not working, they can
go.
Helen (19:30):
Tell me about an experience, a search and rescue
mission that kind of sticks outto you, that you are involved
with.
Dan Patterson (19:40):
That's an easy one.
I've got one that still hauntsme.
We had a search for a gentlemanin the county that I live in and
we went there and, after goingthrough all of our questions and
everything else, this gentlemanhad been to the doctor and
found out he had some tumors Andhe had told his family after
(20:03):
watching his brother die ofagony and cancer and said if I
ever get cancer he says I'mleaving, you'll never find me.
Well, he disappeared.
We were there to hunt for him.
We knew he didn't get a rideanywhere and he couldn't walk
that far because the gentlemanhad poor leg issues.
And on the third day of thesearch the wife came out of the
(20:27):
house crying, said the doctorcalled and said the issue was
benign.
No, and to my knowledge, the manhas never been found, and
that's been about seven yearsago.
Helen (20:38):
Oh, wow.
Maureen (20:40):
Oh, that's heartbreaking.
Dan Patterson (20:42):
Yeah, that really haunts me.
Helen (20:46):
It will haunt me from now on.
Wow, how about another searchand rescue that had a happier
ending?
Dan Patterson (20:56):
There's been quite a few of those, quite a
few.
One that was kind ofinteresting happened just last
month.
We had a gentleman that waslost to the local state forest
and we had just finished thesearch the night before.
So I was going to take thesecond shift And as I was
driving in in the morning Istill didn't know any of the
information about who we werelooking for.
(21:17):
But I'm about I don't know 100yards from the base and this man
pops up out of the woods underthe road and is walking and I
thought that doesn't look right.
So as I pulled into the base,the Ranger was there and I said
I don't know who we're lookingfor, but there's a gentleman
walking down the road that justdidn't look like he should be
there.
But you go down a check andsure enough, it was the guy we
were looking for.
Maureen (21:38):
Oh, wow, he had just wandered like out to the road.
He'd found the road.
Dan Patterson (21:44):
Yeah, and, like I said, i didn't know who I was
looking for, but this guy justseemed out of place, so I
thought it was best to follow upon it.
Helen (21:52):
Oh, that's great.
So he definitely upsides withthe happy endings.
And then there's there's kindof the difficult part of this.
How do you face thosechallenges, or process that and
continue to do what you do?
Dan Patterson (22:09):
I would say over the years we have probably a
little bit better than a thirdof the cases.
we find that people alive,maybe injured but survivable.
About a third of them we findwhere they've been deceased, and
maybe a little bit less than athird we never find for one
reason or another, and the onesthat we never find are kind of
hard to take.
(22:29):
But the other two at leastwe've provided closure for the
family one way or the other.
So I kind of look at that beinga plus.
Even if the person's deceased,the family doesn't need to worry
.
Maureen (22:42):
It's such a gift to know what's happened to a person
, as opposed to not knowing.
Dan Patterson (22:49):
Two days ago we had a search and it was a rather
high profile search.
The reason I know that is mydaughter in California heard
about it, but a gentleman whowas a former pro rugby player in
the UK had moved to the US Andhe had developed several
(23:12):
emotional problems, physicalproblems.
He was in a wreck, lost hisvehicle and he disappeared
probably around the 7th or the13th we're not sure of January
and nobody had found him.
So the family flew in from theUK and we had time to put this
search together.
We had search teams from fivedifferent states.
(23:34):
We had 16 HRD or human remainsdogs and we searched.
Since we didn't have adirection of travel, we only had
that complete 360 degree circleAnd we searched.
Probably I think it was 32separate missions that we sent
out and still haven't found itAnd I feel really bad for the
family because they still haveno closure.
(23:54):
But I know that we did a verygood job trying to help them out
.
Helen (24:00):
What do you think happens to the folks that you just
can't find?
Dan Patterson (24:06):
Some of them don't want to be found.
I know that.
And others, one gentleman wewere looking for in the forest I
was talking about the planning.
He was there illegally huntingginseng.
So we don't know really whatdirection he took and that makes
(24:26):
it very difficult to find.
I don't know.
That's the mystery of the wholething.
Maureen (24:31):
Illegally hunting ginseng.
Ginseng is an illegal thing tohunt.
Dan Patterson (24:35):
No, it was illegal to hunt on a national
forest.
Maureen (24:39):
Oh.
Dan Patterson (24:39):
Yeah.
Helen (24:40):
You got Maureen Nersafe.
Maureen (24:42):
I'm thinking like ginseng.
I'm like, oh my gosh, i'm likea forager, i'm in trouble now.
Dan Patterson (24:46):
No, just illegal in the national forest Illegal
to remove any plants.
Helen (24:52):
To avoid that whole search and rescue situation?
does Mark work with thecommunity to help folks, hikers,
anybody that's out enjoying thenature to stay safe when they
do that?
Dan Patterson (25:10):
We do.
We have some programs that aredesigned mostly towards children
.
There was a program calledHugga Tree and one is called
Lost Foot, found Safe and Sound.
We teach kids what to do ifthey get lost.
Don't crawl into a hole wherewe can't find you.
Make yourself big, stay in oneplace so we can find you,
(25:31):
because trying to hit a movingtarget is ridiculous.
Right, we actually give outwhistles to the kids to carry
with them, because a whistlelasts a lot longer than their
voice.
We teach them about usingplastic bags or shelter, that
sort of thing.
We really don't have anyprograms designed for adults,
but we do for the children.
A few years ago, we had onelady who really wasn't able to
(25:54):
go out in the field, so she tookit upon herself to go to all
the schools and civic groups andeverything else And I think she
showed the program to probablysomething ridiculous like 1200
kids in the surroundingcountries.
Wow Yeah.
Maureen (26:08):
That's awesome.
Helen (26:09):
Yeah, yeah, what.
What advice do you have foradults or for hikers when
They're out in the woods to toavoid getting lost And staying
safe?
Dan Patterson (26:24):
It's.
It's quite easy to get lost.
Anybody that says they haven'tbeen lost hasn't spent any time
in the woods Included.
But the big things are letsomebody know where you're going
and when you plan to be back.
And Take the bare essentialswith you.
You know the proper clothing.
We've had people we found outhiking in the middle of nowhere
(26:45):
and flipped lofts.
You know It's the good shoes,proper clothing, and take things
with you like a flashlight.
It's excellent if you knowmapping compass, but take some
food and the the things that youneed in case you had to spend
the night out there to becomfortable and safe.
A Lot of people just take offwith a bottle of water in their
hand And that's it right.
Maureen (27:05):
Yeah they don't expect the turned ankle or the slip on
the ice or whatever.
Dan Patterson (27:10):
That's right.
Helen (27:12):
What about protection from animals?
you know in in Ohio and WestVirginia wilderness, What, what
sort of animals might anexplorer Encounter you?
Dan Patterson (27:25):
know they're really.
You're more likely to get introuble with another person out
in the woods And you are with ananimal.
Okay, i don't.
We've had occasional people getbit by snakes and usually they
were Antagonizing the snake.
You've never had anybodyAttacked by a bear that I can
remember, or coyotes or anythingelse.
(27:46):
One of the biggest animals Ineed to figure out there is a
bee, if they have, you know,allergies to it.
So you know, we have people onour teams that are allergic to
bees, and I know for one factThis one lady carries her upper
pen and her right cargo pocket.
So you know, let somebody knowif you got a problem.
Maureen (28:04):
It's always the little ones, those little guys, the
bees.
Dan Patterson (28:07):
That's.
That's probably more moredanger out there than any other
animal.
Helen (28:12):
Yeah, this, the snakes would kill me.
I wouldn't be teasing it, iwould be running from it.
What kind of challenges do doyou face during a search and a
rescue mission?
Dan Patterson (28:26):
Well, we live in a pretty rugged area.
at least a lot of our searchesare in rugged areas.
So terrain is a hazard Lots ofcliffs, high walls, rock
crevices, slippery moss,slippery footing.
weather is a problem, you know,we've been out in 100 degrees,
we've been out in below zebraweather, so that's another
(28:46):
problem that we face as far ashazards And things like you know
, heat stroke and hypothermiathat go with it.
Maureen (28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you being prepared andnot becoming another casualty is
Significant.
Like you have to do a lot tokeep that from happening and I I
would imagine that needing tocall back and pull people back
from a search is Difficultbecause you feel like you're
leaving a person, you're kind ofabandoning a person out there
(29:17):
if they're Expected to be foundalive our field team leaders
have pretty extensive Trainingon keeping an eye on their their
teams, because they may havetrained searchers, they may have
emergent volunteers.
Dan Patterson (29:30):
You know, if volunteers show up and they're
not dressed accordingly, wedon't let them go out, because
if one of them gets hurt We'velost the entire resource of a
team because we don't sendanybody out alone or anything
like that.
So we've lost a lot of resourceif somebody gets hurt on the
team.
So everybody's trained verywell on on how to keep an eye
out for the other guy.
Maureen (29:49):
So you go out, you go out in tandem.
Dan Patterson (29:51):
You always buddy up, it's well, actually, if we
have a 40 acre task, we usuallyhave a field team leader and
about four or five people, andthey will depending on how thick
the brush is, they will spreadout.
We usually like to say nofurther apart from each other,
that you can still see the otherperson's shoes.
That way, if there's somethingbetween you, a clue of some sort
(30:15):
, or even a person, you'll beable to pick up on it.
So it's usually a team of fiveto seven people.
It's surprising how muchUnderbrush there is and how
easily someone can be hidden now, when we say that a dog team,
it might just be the dog handler.
The dog in a flanker dog doeshis job very well.
The dog handlers job is to payattention to the dog because
(30:39):
there are certain alerts thatthey need to be aware of, and
then the flankers, responsiblefor Communication with the base
and navigating to make sure theyget to the right place and back
.
Maureen (30:49):
It is very complex, very involved.
Helen (30:53):
Yeah, you have to be strategic to use those resources
in the right way.
Dan Patterson (31:00):
That is true.
And as far as deploying themtoo, if we are working with an
air sent dog, we want to makesure that there isn't a team in
the section next to them thatwould throw the air sent dog off
too.
So we are aware of air currentsand things that affect sent,
and whenever the planning peopleare doing it, they have to make
(31:21):
sure that they stagger thosetasks so that one doesn't
interfere with the other.
Maureen (31:26):
What is it that you feel is the most rewarding piece
of doing this type of work foryou?
I?
Dan Patterson (31:32):
think seeing the faces of the family when we have
a successful search, that'senough.
Our team is not the only team.
We are part of the AppalachianSearch and Rescue Conference and
there are seven teams in theconference, anywhere from Ohio,
there's Pennsylvania, maryland,virginia, a couple in
Pennsylvania I guess And we alltrain to the same standards so
(31:54):
that when we have a large search, like we had last Saturday, and
we call in help from otherteams, when I see what badge is
on the person's shoulder as towhat they've accomplished so far
as a search manager, i knowwhat they can do And I can send
them out to lead a team or bepart of a man tracking team or
whatever.
So it's nice to have that inreserve whenever you have a
(32:15):
large search.
Maureen (32:16):
Now are you along the Appalachian Trail.
Dan Patterson (32:18):
No, no, the Appalachian Trail runs through
Harpers Ferry of West Virginiaand that's the only place, and
that's near the EasternPanhandle.
Maureen (32:27):
Only because I was wondering that people go on long
hikes for weeks, if not months,on end.
If they have an itinerary.
What's your recommendation forwhat they do with their
itinerary so that people knowwhere they are and can have kind
of checkpoints?
Dan Patterson (32:45):
Well, years ago, people used to leave their
itineraries on the dashboard oftheir car, But that made it easy
for people to say, hey, they'regoing to be back to this car
for three more days, and theybreak into it.
So, one of the best things youcould do is leave a phone number
on the dash of your car for afriend back home that has your
itinerary.
That way, if they come acrossyour car and they wonder about
(33:06):
if the authorities can call thatnumber and if you're the friend
, you can tell them to say, well, he's supposed to be here by
now and he's planning on makingit to this point by Wednesday or
whatever.
So that's probably the bestthing you could do is make sure
somebody is back there with you.
Helen (33:20):
If you get lost.
What are some best practices tomake?
God forbid, a search or rescueteam need to be called out for
you.
What are the best practices youshould do if you're lost in the
woods?
Dan Patterson (33:34):
First thing you need to do is stop if you're not
in danger.
If you think you're going to bethere for a while, find some
sort of shelter.
take stock of what you havewith you and what you might need
to use.
It's always good to have somewilderness skills, like being
able to build a fire or whatever, but the big thing is get
yourself in a safe position andstay put because, as you wonder,
(33:58):
you'll get excited, you'll gettired, you may fall and hurt
yourself.
Like I said, a moving target isvery hard to hit, so make
yourself as visible as you can.
We'll find you if you'revisible.
and stay in and put in one spot.
Maureen (34:19):
I imagine that's hard.
If I'm lost in the woods, yourinclination is to keep moving
because your panic is like I'mlost.
I'm trying to find somethingthat is recognizable to me.
So staying put is the key tohelping people find you more
easily, definitely is.
Dan Patterson (34:40):
You're able to walk around every once in a
while to try to figure outwhat's going on, but you have to
pay attention.
Is it going to get dark soon?
Am I in a dangerous area?
What's the weather going to be?
There's nothing wrong withtrying to find your way out for
a little while, but at somepoint in time you have to
realize that, hey, i might behere overnight.
I better stop now and get someshelter or build a fire or
(35:02):
whatever I can do to staycomfortable.
Maureen (35:05):
Just stay put, maureen, stop moving around.
Helen (35:09):
My first instinct would be go get help or try and find
the road.
Dan Patterson (35:15):
Well, that's where it comes in handy to have
a little bit of navigationalskills to be able to read a map.
Maureen (35:20):
Well, that and I'm all about going out and buying a
whistle.
Now I will be the elementaryschool child.
Dan Patterson (35:27):
I will We all carry whistles on our backs
because a whistle will carry fora long way and you can blow
that whistle for a long time,long after your voice wears out
from hollering.
Maureen (35:38):
Well, now it occurs to me like if I ever hear a whistle
out in the woods, I would beaware of somebody calling for
help.
Helen (35:45):
Right And that it's not a traffic cop.
Maureen (35:50):
Or a coach.
Helen (35:53):
Help and give me 20.
Dan, as a founding member ofthe group, what are the next
steps or what direction wouldyou like to see the group go in
or expand in?
Dan Patterson (36:09):
To be honest with you, i've got to the point now
where I'm kind of stepping back.
I feel like a proud papa seeingit grow.
I'm trying to let it go, letother people take over and go
with the direction, that I'm notso much directing the way the
group goes anymore, i'm justkind of letting it grow on its
own And it's doing a fine job.
(36:30):
It's doing a real good job.
We've got a lot of newermembers that are definitely
devoted to it and they're allcoming up with ideas And to me,
just sitting back and watchingit grow on its own is fantastic.
Maureen (36:47):
I'm in awe and I feel a lot better about anybody who
might have the need that thereare these types of people
volunteering their time like you, Dan, and caring enough about
their community to be at theready.
Helen (37:02):
I feel a little more confident to go for a stroll in
the woods down in Dan's neck.
Maureen (37:09):
Right, right.
My dog is not trained to findyou here, helen.
Helen (37:18):
Dan, thank you so much for all of the time, for all of
the information you shared withus and for starting this
wonderful group so many yearsago.
Dan Patterson (37:31):
I had a hand in it.
I wasn't the only one.
Helen (37:34):
Well, true, true.
But again, the idea came fromthat initial group and I am so
happy for what you've built andso thankful that there are folks
like you and all of thevolunteers involved, with Marg,
out there searching andpreparing to rescue and bring
(37:56):
folks home to their families.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you for your time, dan.
This is great.
Okay, wow, what a legacy Danhas been a part of building, as
he's helped so many familiesreunite or bring closure to them
.
Who to thought?
from Eagle Scout to mountainarea rescue group.
(38:19):
If you'd like to learn moreabout the rescue group, jump
down to the show notes for linksto their page, maybe even
investigate how you can getinvolved in a local rescue group
near you.
If you're enjoying the content,please help me grow the podcast
, and you can do it in threesimple ways.
You can leave a five starwritten review wherever you
(38:42):
download your podcasts, andwritten reviews help the podcast
get into the algorithms and popup in the recommended for you
section so others can discoverthe podcast.
Another way you can help thepodcast is to tell a friend
about us, share your favoriteepisode, share an episode you
(39:04):
think they may be interested inAnd, lastly, you can support the
pod on buy me a coffeecom.
I literally run on pumpkins.
So just three small ways tohelp the podcast and ensure your
support and love.
And don't forget to connectwith me on social media Facebook
(39:27):
, twitter, instagram or you caneven drop me a note, say hello,
ask a question, submit an ideafor a future episode at a
convose pod at gmailcom.
You can jump down to the shownotes for all of my social media
links and my email address, andI can't thank you enough for
(39:48):
listening.
I'll see you in two weeks.
Every day people following their passions.
Maureen (00:14):
That's probably like one of the highlights of my life
so far Just being able to becreative like that, something
I've always wanted.
Helen (00:23):
And then I decided to get another hive and that turned
into a lot of hives.
As long as I can do that, iwant to be a good citizen and
help people out, puttingthemselves out there, taking
chances and navigatingchallenges along the way.
I absolutely identified withhaving stage fright, because any
(00:45):
time I went on stage I justfelt like I was having a hot
attack.
Dan Patterson (00:47):
Very first lap, very first practice session.
I crashed, Turned the carupside down, made a spectacle of
myself And I got back on thathorse and started riding again.
Helen (00:57):
As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them joy,
as long as people are having agood time and I have the
opportunity to put smiles onpeople's faces.
Maureen (01:07):
I love what I do.
Helen (01:09):
I have done things that I never thought I could do.
This is Assorted Conversations,and I'm your host, helen.
Hey, welcome if you'relistening for the first time and
welcome back if you're tuningin again.
Thanks for being here.
This week's conversation issomething Maureen and I got to
(01:32):
record a while back and we'rejust releasing it now.
If you've ever experienced thepanic of being lost in the
wilderness, like I have, or thefear and the anxiety that comes
with somebody being separatedfrom your group, whether you're
hiking, taking a walk or camping, we go behind the scenes this
(01:57):
week with a founding member ofthe Mountaineer Area Rescue
Group.
Dan Patterson has 26 years ofexperience as a volunteer for
this group And he shares storiesof some of the search and
rescue missions.
He's been on the amount ofplanning that goes into an
(02:20):
effective and successful searchand rescue mission, and he also
shares that his love and hisknowledge of the great outdoors
has helped him execute over 300search and rescue missions.
I'm telling you after thisconversation, there isn't
anybody in the world I wouldtrust more than Dan to come find
(02:42):
me when I get lost, and it willhappen.
So take a listen to this week'sepisode and I'll see you on the
other side.
This week's guest has spent thelast 26 years as a member of the
Mountaineer Area Rescue Group.
(03:03):
The group is a volunteer searchand rescue organization
dedicated to finding and savinglives in the wilderness of Ohio
and West Virginia.
We are happy to have with usDan Patterson.
Welcome to AssortedConversations, dan, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Maureen (03:21):
Oh, it's great to have you, dan, with 26 years under
your belt, how was it that yougot started in doing search and
rescue work?
Dan Patterson (03:31):
Well, a couple of years before I got started,
there was a search for a younggirl in the area And we
volunteered a couple of us to gohelp search and it was very
unorganized.
The people running the searchdidn't know what they were doing
And, as a result, the younggirl passed away And when she
was found out later where shewas, it really wasn't necessary
(03:54):
that that happened And severalof us said, hey, you know, we
need to get some training hereand put together a team.
Fortunately, one of the peoplethat was in there knew of a team
in the Pittsburgh area and of aconference And they kind of
took us under their wing andhelped us get started.
Maureen (04:12):
So out of that tragic situation you got involved in
creating a group just to dothings in a manner that would
really benefit anybody who couldbe in these circumstances.
Dan Patterson (04:25):
That's correct And a lot of people don't
realize when you have a search,how involved with planning and
figuring out you know where tosearch.
There's no use to wasteresources looking in a place
that a person isn't going to be.
So there's a lot of training toteach you how to set up a
search.
Helen (04:42):
Dan, what kind of background or skills did you
have that that lent themselvesto you starting the group and
kind of assessing the situationand discovering that need Well?
Dan Patterson (04:55):
it wasn't just me , there was about five of us and
we were all outdoor orientedpeople.
I mean, i'd been all throughthe Boy Scouts and love the
outdoors and hiking and climbingand that sort of stuff, and
since the entire group seemed tohave a lot of background in the
outdoors, we figured that'swhere we could best be used.
Maureen (05:15):
So what are some of the things that you do as far as
planning and developing astrategy for searching for
somebody who's outlawed?
Dan Patterson (05:26):
Well, one of the first things we do is we do
what's called a lost personquestionnaire.
It's about seven pages long.
We'll have someone sit downwith a family member or a friend
or whoever saw the person last,and we'll go through and we'll
ask them pertinent questionsabout them.
You know, are they outdoororiented?
Do they carry things with themlike a flashlight when they go
for a hike?
What were they wearing?
(05:47):
What might have been the reasonfor them to be out in the woods
where they were?
Were they hunting, you know,ginseng or other plants?
Were they hunting?
Were they just hiking?
And we'll get kind of abackground on the person.
And then what we'll do is we'llstart at what we call the last
known point or the last pointscene, which might be the
(06:07):
person's vehicle that's parkedwhere they stopped to go for a
hike Or where somebody actuallysaw the person.
And hopefully from that we canget what we call a direction of
travel.
Because if we just have asingle point, we've got 360
degrees to search from, and ifwe don't know where they're
going from, obviously, ifthey're traveling at two miles
(06:30):
an hour, the area we have tosearch gets exponentially larger
the longer they're gone.
So we try to narrow it down toa direction of travel and get
just a wedge of that circle tostart on to concentrate on.
Maureen (06:41):
How are you notified or what's the process for your
team to be called in?
Dan Patterson (06:47):
We can only be called in by what we call an
authority having jurisdiction orresponsible authority.
That would be any lawenforcement.
It could be in the state ofWest Virginia, a fire department
, a park ranger, that sort ofthing And what they do is they
contact the 911 center in eitherMontaguella or Preston County
(07:08):
and they will page us out.
We have a program on our phones, called I Am Responding, and
they will contact whoever is thedispatch person.
For that time Dispatch personwill get the information about
the lost person, where they'reat, you know how old the person
is, what we're looking for, Andthen they are able to send out a
group page, if you will, overthe phone, that gives us the
(07:29):
description where we need to go,whether it's you know what the
weather forecast is for the next24 hours, all that sort of
information.
And then we can respond on ourphone and say, yes, I'm on my
way to the search.
I won't be able to be theretill you know tomorrow or eight
hours if I'm working, becausewe're all volunteers.
And then the dispatch has thison his computer and he can see
who's responding to the searchand let whoever's running the
(07:52):
search know hey, you're going toget some more resources here in
a few hours, or this is what wehave.
Helen (07:57):
Dan, are there steps to a rescue mission?
Dan Patterson (08:03):
Well, as far as rescue goes, I guess that kind
of depends on what the rescue isIf we've already found or, i'm
sorry, maybe I should have saidsearch and rescue.
Helen (08:14):
Well, yeah, there's definitely.
You got to find them first.
Dan Patterson (08:17):
There's definitely steps to the search
And unfortunately it seems likehurry up and wait a lot of times
because everybody shows up andthey're ready and anxious to go
out in the woods But we don'tyet have areas to search.
You know, we don't want to justsend people running through the
woods, we want to use ourresources wisely because we
don't always have that manypeople.
So the people in planning willtake all the information they
(08:41):
have and they will look at thetopographical maps of the area
and they will segment what theyconsider high priority or high
probability areas based on, youknow, do we know?
this person walks slow, theywalk fast.
How old are they?
What were they doing?
Are they, you know, walkingdown a particular trail and will
(09:02):
segment it into about 40 acres.
And then we will assign teamswith a field team leader and
they're able to go out to thoseareas and search them, keep in
touch with us radio and let usknow if they found anything or
if they haven't or, you know,whatever their status is out
there, and we'll systematicallycheck what we call the high
(09:23):
probability areas and work ourway out.
Maureen (09:26):
So what would you say, Dan, is some of the keys to a
successful search?
What are the things that aremost important for the search to
be successful?
Dan Patterson (09:38):
Well, one of the big things that we have a
problem with is keeping the lastknown point pristine.
People always want to run up tothe person's car and look
inside and they walk around it.
We've had fire departments inyears past that would come right
to the spot and park theirtrucks there and keep it running
.
So now we've got all the dieselfumes in the area so dogs can't
(10:00):
pick up any scent, and peoplethat have gone there and handled
the vehicle and walked aroundit.
They put so many tracks.
it makes it difficult for oursign cutters and man trackers to
find a direction of travel.
So I'd say the very first stepis trying to keep that area
pristine.
Maureen (10:18):
You don't think about that when you're just finding or
looking for somebody and you'reanxious about them.
So that's important informationfor people to have.
Do people have to have certainqualifications to be part of a
search team?
Dan Patterson (10:33):
Well, our team is all volunteers and we've grown
to about 50 people at this pointin time, probably 30 of which
are really active, but they comefrom all walks of life.
I mean, we have people that areoutdoors people.
We have people that arebusiness people.
There are several people in themedical field.
We have students from the localuniversity.
Anybody with any desire toactually help out has a position
(10:56):
.
They may not even be able to beout in the field, but if they
can program GPS's or work on thecomputer programs that we use,
that sort of thing, you knowwe've got a place for everybody.
Maureen (11:07):
And you had mentioned that you do training with people
, correct?
Dan Patterson (11:10):
I'm currently the training officer and we bring
people in.
A lot of people have no cluewhatsoever about the outdoors,
but they want to help.
So when we first bring them in,there's several things they
need to do.
They have to understand ourbylaws and what we do, and you
know.
They get a course on what wecan do legally and what we can't
(11:30):
, and you know different thingsthey have to watch out for in
the woods.
We want to make sure thatthey're not a danger to
themselves or someone else.
So they get some basic trainingthere.
There's a couple of courses thatFEMA puts out on the National
Incident Management System, orNIMS, that we require them to
take online because that's theway all incidents work anymore
(11:50):
And they need to understand thedifference between, you know,
incident command or planning oroperations and logistics that
sort of thing.
Helen (11:57):
Dan, could you explain a little bit more about that
incident command system, likewhat's the hierarchy and the
organization of it And why it'sso important?
Dan Patterson (12:10):
It's imagine a flowchart with your incident
commander at the very top, andthen it branches down to several
other areas where you mighthave a couple of small branches
off of the incident commander,like maybe a deputy commander or
family liaison or publicinformation officer, and then it
drops down into planning, whereyou're planning how you're
(12:30):
going to run the operation.
You have operations.
That actually puts the plansinto use.
You have logistics, andlogistics provides the material,
people and everything else foroperations to do.
There's also a finance section,but since we're all volunteers,
we never have finance sectionfor any of ours.
Maureen (12:52):
You never see those people, huh?
Dan Patterson (12:54):
No, we never get that Years ago people out west
would be calling for a tanker ina wildfire And what they were
talking about was an airlinetanker, and people in the east
who didn't have those kinds offires thought it meant a tanker
truck.
So there was a lot of mess upbetween these larger incidents
where people were misconstruingwhat was requested or asked of
(13:17):
them and everything else.
So it started off with thewildland fires with the NIMS
system, and it was developed tohandle all of the emergencies
and operations across the UnitedStates to use that particular
system.
So there would be continuity.
Maureen (13:32):
A standardization of it all.
Dan Patterson (13:34):
Yeah, i was going to say the nice thing about it
is you can start off small, ifyou only have a few people there
, and you can expand it as thesearch grows, and then you can
contract it again.
I mean, the system is veryflexible.
Helen (13:45):
Yeah, i work for a utility company and when we have
a big storm, we use the exactsame system, and it's so.
We're all speaking the samelanguage and there are dedicated
groups to specific tasks.
Yet all of our efforts areworking toward the same end goal
(14:06):
, right?
We just all have a differentrole Yep.
Dan Patterson (14:10):
So we want the new people to understand how
that system works, and then werequire them to have a call-out
pack which contains certainessential items that they'll
need for being out.
We are self-sustaining for 48hours with our packs, so they
need to have flashlight,headlamp, a pocket knife, some
sort of shelter, food.
(14:32):
We require them to have medicalgloves and also leather gloves
if they're doing a rescueeventually with rope work Just
the certain essentials that aperson would need in order to be
self-sufficient out in thewoods for 48 hours.
Maureen (14:45):
It occurs to me that over 26 years, the types of
technology and the processesyou've used have changed
considerably over the timeperiod.
No idea.
Dan Patterson (14:56):
I'll give you an example.
When we first started, all wehad was regular Topo maps and
when we draw the segments on itwe would lay a sheet of acetate
over top of it and tape it down.
So we could write on theacetate where the areas were.
And then somebody had totransfer that to a copy of the
map for the team to take out andtransfer the segment onto that.
(15:17):
And if a search was going onovernight, somebody had to stay
up all night long and beplanning for the next morning.
So we had it to go.
Well, we had a search here acouple months ago and we were in
the middle of a national forest, middle of nowhere, and we were
in our truck.
We have computer systems inthere that automatically print
(15:39):
out the segments that we tell itto, and it prints out our task
assignment forms.
It gives all the information tothe team leaders that they need
.
And when it came to planningthat night it was about two
o'clock when we stopped.
Normally somebody would bestaying up all night doing the
planning, but we now have what'scalled remote planning.
We had a hotspot and there weresix other people online on a
(16:00):
meeting not like this, where Ithink one guy was in Missouri,
one was in Virginia.
I know one guy was in Hawaii.
I don't know if they were allyou know search team members.
We gave them what we needed.
We went to sleep, they stayedup, they did the planning, they
set it back to our computer.
When we came in the nextmorning we had our assignments
ready to go.
So, yes, it's changed a lot.
Maureen (16:23):
Oh, my God, that's amazing, okay, as a person who
still remembers what paper mapslook like and use them back in
my childhood.
okay, dan, it is fascinating tome that not only are you using
the technology, but you're usingpeople in other time zones, who
aren't even familiar with thearea, to just go ahead and map
(16:45):
everything out for you.
Dan Patterson (16:47):
And we do use technology like GPS and some of
the systems on our telephonesand we can actually see the
people on the map in real timewhere the teams are.
But my team kind of gets upsetwith me because I still make
them learn how to do it withjust a map and compass, because
sometimes technology fails.
Maureen (17:04):
I think that's great, because I'm forever in a place
where you go.
I have no signal.
Dan Patterson (17:09):
Well then, that happens with GPS's, but maps and
compasses don't fail.
Maureen (17:14):
Right, Right.
But you know what the BoyScouts have done you good.
Dan Patterson (17:18):
Yeah.
Helen (17:21):
Dan, are you, is the group using drone technology at
all?
Yes, we are.
Dan Patterson (17:28):
We just started.
A couple of years ago They hada problem where they were
calling us a commercial venueand said we couldn't use the
drones because it was acommercial venue without having
licensed pilots.
I suppose the people that aredoing it for recreation which we
kind of argued because weweren't getting any money or
anything out of it, we wereusing it to save lives But now
(17:50):
we have three different licenseddrone pilots and we do use the
drones.
Sometimes It's a little bitdifficult in our very wooded
area to see down through thecanopy, but if there's a marshy
or swampy area that would beridiculous for a person to try
to wade through, we can hoverover that and search for the
drones.
Maureen (18:10):
How often do you have a call for a search and or a
rescue?
Dan Patterson (18:16):
Two or three times a month, i would say on
average no-transcript.
Although we do wildernesssearch, we do some in West
Virginia when I call it asuburban area it's half houses
and half, you know, woodlands,so we do that.
We have occasionally hadsearches in urban areas not very
(18:40):
often.
The authorities will call us alot of times to help out with
logistics and communications onother emergencies.
We had a blizzard come througha few years ago.
There was no power and we wentand helped move people from a
nursing home to a heated firehall, that sort of thing.
So we're willing to help outwherever we're needed.
Helen (18:57):
Oh, that's great.
Maureen (19:00):
Wow.
Helen (19:02):
Dan, in your tenure with the group, how many search and
rescue missions do you thinkyou've been involved with?
Dan Patterson (19:14):
I've been on close to 300.
The group's been close to five.
You can't go Wow.
Everybody's able to go to everysearch, for whatever reason.
We're all volunteers, So that'swhy we like to have a large
group.
We can usually field a fewpeople.
You know it's a work day andsomebody's not working, they can
go.
Helen (19:30):
Tell me about an experience, a search and rescue
mission that kind of sticks outto you, that you are involved
with.
Dan Patterson (19:40):
That's an easy one.
I've got one that still hauntsme.
We had a search for a gentlemanin the county that I live in and
we went there and, after goingthrough all of our questions and
everything else, this gentlemanhad been to the doctor and
found out he had some tumors Andhe had told his family after
(20:03):
watching his brother die ofagony and cancer and said if I
ever get cancer he says I'mleaving, you'll never find me.
Well, he disappeared.
We were there to hunt for him.
We knew he didn't get a rideanywhere and he couldn't walk
that far because the gentlemanhad poor leg issues.
And on the third day of thesearch the wife came out of the
(20:27):
house crying, said the doctorcalled and said the issue was
benign.
No, and to my knowledge, the manhas never been found, and
that's been about seven yearsago.
Helen (20:38):
Oh, wow.
Maureen (20:40):
Oh, that's heartbreaking.
Dan Patterson (20:42):
Yeah, that really haunts me.
Helen (20:46):
It will haunt me from now on.
Wow, how about another searchand rescue that had a happier
ending?
Dan Patterson (20:56):
There's been quite a few of those, quite a
few.
One that was kind ofinteresting happened just last
month.
We had a gentleman that waslost to the local state forest
and we had just finished thesearch the night before.
So I was going to take thesecond shift And as I was
driving in in the morning Istill didn't know any of the
information about who we werelooking for.
(21:17):
But I'm about I don't know 100yards from the base and this man
pops up out of the woods underthe road and is walking and I
thought that doesn't look right.
So as I pulled into the base,the Ranger was there and I said
I don't know who we're lookingfor, but there's a gentleman
walking down the road that justdidn't look like he should be
there.
But you go down a check andsure enough, it was the guy we
were looking for.
Maureen (21:38):
Oh, wow, he had just wandered like out to the road.
He'd found the road.
Dan Patterson (21:44):
Yeah, and, like I said, i didn't know who I was
looking for, but this guy justseemed out of place, so I
thought it was best to follow upon it.
Helen (21:52):
Oh, that's great.
So he definitely upsides withthe happy endings.
And then there's there's kindof the difficult part of this.
How do you face thosechallenges, or process that and
continue to do what you do?
Dan Patterson (22:09):
I would say over the years we have probably a
little bit better than a thirdof the cases.
we find that people alive,maybe injured but survivable.
About a third of them we findwhere they've been deceased, and
maybe a little bit less than athird we never find for one
reason or another, and the onesthat we never find are kind of
hard to take.
(22:29):
But the other two at leastwe've provided closure for the
family one way or the other.
So I kind of look at that beinga plus.
Even if the person's deceased,the family doesn't need to worry
.
Maureen (22:42):
It's such a gift to know what's happened to a person
, as opposed to not knowing.
Dan Patterson (22:49):
Two days ago we had a search and it was a rather
high profile search.
The reason I know that is mydaughter in California heard
about it, but a gentleman whowas a former pro rugby player in
the UK had moved to the US Andhe had developed several
(23:12):
emotional problems, physicalproblems.
He was in a wreck, lost hisvehicle and he disappeared
probably around the 7th or the13th we're not sure of January
and nobody had found him.
So the family flew in from theUK and we had time to put this
search together.
We had search teams from fivedifferent states.
(23:34):
We had 16 HRD or human remainsdogs and we searched.
Since we didn't have adirection of travel, we only had
that complete 360 degree circleAnd we searched.
Probably I think it was 32separate missions that we sent
out and still haven't found itAnd I feel really bad for the
family because they still haveno closure.
(23:54):
But I know that we did a verygood job trying to help them out
.
Helen (24:00):
What do you think happens to the folks that you just
can't find?
Dan Patterson (24:06):
Some of them don't want to be found.
I know that.
And others, one gentleman wewere looking for in the forest I
was talking about the planning.
He was there illegally huntingginseng.
So we don't know really whatdirection he took and that makes
(24:26):
it very difficult to find.
I don't know.
That's the mystery of the wholething.
Maureen (24:31):
Illegally hunting ginseng.
Ginseng is an illegal thing tohunt.
Dan Patterson (24:35):
No, it was illegal to hunt on a national
forest.
Maureen (24:39):
Oh.
Dan Patterson (24:39):
Yeah.
Helen (24:40):
You got Maureen Nersafe.
Maureen (24:42):
I'm thinking like ginseng.
I'm like, oh my gosh, i'm likea forager, i'm in trouble now.
Dan Patterson (24:46):
No, just illegal in the national forest Illegal
to remove any plants.
Helen (24:52):
To avoid that whole search and rescue situation?
does Mark work with thecommunity to help folks, hikers,
anybody that's out enjoying thenature to stay safe when they
do that?
Dan Patterson (25:10):
We do.
We have some programs that aredesigned mostly towards children
.
There was a program calledHugga Tree and one is called
Lost Foot, found Safe and Sound.
We teach kids what to do ifthey get lost.
Don't crawl into a hole wherewe can't find you.
Make yourself big, stay in oneplace so we can find you,
(25:31):
because trying to hit a movingtarget is ridiculous.
Right, we actually give outwhistles to the kids to carry
with them, because a whistlelasts a lot longer than their
voice.
We teach them about usingplastic bags or shelter, that
sort of thing.
We really don't have anyprograms designed for adults,
but we do for the children.
A few years ago, we had onelady who really wasn't able to
(25:54):
go out in the field, so she tookit upon herself to go to all
the schools and civic groups andeverything else And I think she
showed the program to probablysomething ridiculous like 1200
kids in the surroundingcountries.
Wow Yeah.
Maureen (26:08):
That's awesome.
Helen (26:09):
Yeah, yeah, what.
What advice do you have foradults or for hikers when
They're out in the woods to toavoid getting lost And staying
safe?
Dan Patterson (26:24):
It's.
It's quite easy to get lost.
Anybody that says they haven'tbeen lost hasn't spent any time
in the woods Included.
But the big things are letsomebody know where you're going
and when you plan to be back.
And Take the bare essentialswith you.
You know the proper clothing.
We've had people we found outhiking in the middle of nowhere
(26:45):
and flipped lofts.
You know It's the good shoes,proper clothing, and take things
with you like a flashlight.
It's excellent if you knowmapping compass, but take some
food and the the things that youneed in case you had to spend
the night out there to becomfortable and safe.
A Lot of people just take offwith a bottle of water in their
hand And that's it right.
Maureen (27:05):
Yeah they don't expect the turned ankle or the slip on
the ice or whatever.
Dan Patterson (27:10):
That's right.
Helen (27:12):
What about protection from animals?
you know in in Ohio and WestVirginia wilderness, What, what
sort of animals might anexplorer Encounter you?
Dan Patterson (27:25):
know they're really.
You're more likely to get introuble with another person out
in the woods And you are with ananimal.
Okay, i don't.
We've had occasional people getbit by snakes and usually they
were Antagonizing the snake.
You've never had anybodyAttacked by a bear that I can
remember, or coyotes or anythingelse.
(27:46):
One of the biggest animals Ineed to figure out there is a
bee, if they have, you know,allergies to it.
So you know, we have people onour teams that are allergic to
bees, and I know for one factThis one lady carries her upper
pen and her right cargo pocket.
So you know, let somebody knowif you got a problem.
Maureen (28:04):
It's always the little ones, those little guys, the
bees.
Dan Patterson (28:07):
That's.
That's probably more moredanger out there than any other
animal.
Helen (28:12):
Yeah, this, the snakes would kill me.
I wouldn't be teasing it, iwould be running from it.
What kind of challenges do doyou face during a search and a
rescue mission?
Dan Patterson (28:26):
Well, we live in a pretty rugged area.
at least a lot of our searchesare in rugged areas.
So terrain is a hazard Lots ofcliffs, high walls, rock
crevices, slippery moss,slippery footing.
weather is a problem, you know,we've been out in 100 degrees,
we've been out in below zebraweather, so that's another
(28:46):
problem that we face as far ashazards And things like you know
, heat stroke and hypothermiathat go with it.
Maureen (28:56):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you being prepared andnot becoming another casualty is
Significant.
Like you have to do a lot tokeep that from happening and I I
would imagine that needing tocall back and pull people back
from a search is Difficultbecause you feel like you're
leaving a person, you're kind ofabandoning a person out there
(29:17):
if they're Expected to be foundalive our field team leaders
have pretty extensive Trainingon keeping an eye on their their
teams, because they may havetrained searchers, they may have
emergent volunteers.
Dan Patterson (29:30):
You know, if volunteers show up and they're
not dressed accordingly, wedon't let them go out, because
if one of them gets hurt We'velost the entire resource of a
team because we don't sendanybody out alone or anything
like that.
So we've lost a lot of resourceif somebody gets hurt on the
team.
So everybody's trained verywell on on how to keep an eye
out for the other guy.
Maureen (29:49):
So you go out, you go out in tandem.
Dan Patterson (29:51):
You always buddy up, it's well, actually, if we
have a 40 acre task, we usuallyhave a field team leader and
about four or five people, andthey will depending on how thick
the brush is, they will spreadout.
We usually like to say nofurther apart from each other,
that you can still see the otherperson's shoes.
That way, if there's somethingbetween you, a clue of some sort
(30:15):
, or even a person, you'll beable to pick up on it.
So it's usually a team of fiveto seven people.
It's surprising how muchUnderbrush there is and how
easily someone can be hidden now, when we say that a dog team,
it might just be the dog handler.
The dog in a flanker dog doeshis job very well.
The dog handlers job is to payattention to the dog because
(30:39):
there are certain alerts thatthey need to be aware of, and
then the flankers, responsiblefor Communication with the base
and navigating to make sure theyget to the right place and back
.
Maureen (30:49):
It is very complex, very involved.
Helen (30:53):
Yeah, you have to be strategic to use those resources
in the right way.
Dan Patterson (31:00):
That is true.
And as far as deploying themtoo, if we are working with an
air sent dog, we want to makesure that there isn't a team in
the section next to them thatwould throw the air sent dog off
too.
So we are aware of air currentsand things that affect sent,
and whenever the planning peopleare doing it, they have to make
(31:21):
sure that they stagger thosetasks so that one doesn't
interfere with the other.
Maureen (31:26):
What is it that you feel is the most rewarding piece
of doing this type of work foryou?
I?
Dan Patterson (31:32):
think seeing the faces of the family when we have
a successful search, that'senough.
Our team is not the only team.
We are part of the AppalachianSearch and Rescue Conference and
there are seven teams in theconference, anywhere from Ohio,
there's Pennsylvania, maryland,virginia, a couple in
Pennsylvania I guess And we alltrain to the same standards so
(31:54):
that when we have a large search, like we had last Saturday, and
we call in help from otherteams, when I see what badge is
on the person's shoulder as towhat they've accomplished so far
as a search manager, i knowwhat they can do And I can send
them out to lead a team or bepart of a man tracking team or
whatever.
So it's nice to have that inreserve whenever you have a
(32:15):
large search.
Maureen (32:16):
Now are you along the Appalachian Trail.
Dan Patterson (32:18):
No, no, the Appalachian Trail runs through
Harpers Ferry of West Virginiaand that's the only place, and
that's near the EasternPanhandle.
Maureen (32:27):
Only because I was wondering that people go on long
hikes for weeks, if not months,on end.
If they have an itinerary.
What's your recommendation forwhat they do with their
itinerary so that people knowwhere they are and can have kind
of checkpoints?
Dan Patterson (32:45):
Well, years ago, people used to leave their
itineraries on the dashboard oftheir car, But that made it easy
for people to say, hey, they'regoing to be back to this car
for three more days, and theybreak into it.
So, one of the best things youcould do is leave a phone number
on the dash of your car for afriend back home that has your
itinerary.
That way, if they come acrossyour car and they wonder about
(33:06):
if the authorities can call thatnumber and if you're the friend
, you can tell them to say, well, he's supposed to be here by
now and he's planning on makingit to this point by Wednesday or
whatever.
So that's probably the bestthing you could do is make sure
somebody is back there with you.
Helen (33:20):
If you get lost.
What are some best practices tomake?
God forbid, a search or rescueteam need to be called out for
you.
What are the best practices youshould do if you're lost in the
woods?
Dan Patterson (33:34):
First thing you need to do is stop if you're not
in danger.
If you think you're going to bethere for a while, find some
sort of shelter.
take stock of what you havewith you and what you might need
to use.
It's always good to have somewilderness skills, like being
able to build a fire or whatever, but the big thing is get
yourself in a safe position andstay put because, as you wonder,
(33:58):
you'll get excited, you'll gettired, you may fall and hurt
yourself.
Like I said, a moving target isvery hard to hit, so make
yourself as visible as you can.
We'll find you if you'revisible.
and stay in and put in one spot.
Maureen (34:19):
I imagine that's hard.
If I'm lost in the woods, yourinclination is to keep moving
because your panic is like I'mlost.
I'm trying to find somethingthat is recognizable to me.
So staying put is the key tohelping people find you more
easily, definitely is.
Dan Patterson (34:40):
You're able to walk around every once in a
while to try to figure outwhat's going on, but you have to
pay attention.
Is it going to get dark soon?
Am I in a dangerous area?
What's the weather going to be?
There's nothing wrong withtrying to find your way out for
a little while, but at somepoint in time you have to
realize that, hey, i might behere overnight.
I better stop now and get someshelter or build a fire or
(35:02):
whatever I can do to staycomfortable.
Maureen (35:05):
Just stay put, maureen, stop moving around.
Helen (35:09):
My first instinct would be go get help or try and find
the road.
Dan Patterson (35:15):
Well, that's where it comes in handy to have
a little bit of navigationalskills to be able to read a map.
Maureen (35:20):
Well, that and I'm all about going out and buying a
whistle.
Now I will be the elementaryschool child.
Dan Patterson (35:27):
I will We all carry whistles on our backs
because a whistle will carry fora long way and you can blow
that whistle for a long time,long after your voice wears out
from hollering.
Maureen (35:38):
Well, now it occurs to me like if I ever hear a whistle
out in the woods, I would beaware of somebody calling for
help.
Helen (35:45):
Right And that it's not a traffic cop.
Maureen (35:50):
Or a coach.
Helen (35:53):
Help and give me 20.
Dan, as a founding member ofthe group, what are the next
steps or what direction wouldyou like to see the group go in
or expand in?
Dan Patterson (36:09):
To be honest with you, i've got to the point now
where I'm kind of stepping back.
I feel like a proud papa seeingit grow.
I'm trying to let it go, letother people take over and go
with the direction, that I'm notso much directing the way the
group goes anymore, i'm justkind of letting it grow on its
own And it's doing a fine job.
(36:30):
It's doing a real good job.
We've got a lot of newermembers that are definitely
devoted to it and they're allcoming up with ideas And to me,
just sitting back and watchingit grow on its own is fantastic.
Maureen (36:47):
I'm in awe and I feel a lot better about anybody who
might have the need that thereare these types of people
volunteering their time like you, Dan, and caring enough about
their community to be at theready.
Helen (37:02):
I feel a little more confident to go for a stroll in
the woods down in Dan's neck.
Maureen (37:09):
Right, right.
My dog is not trained to findyou here, helen.
Helen (37:18):
Dan, thank you so much for all of the time, for all of
the information you shared withus and for starting this
wonderful group so many yearsago.
Dan Patterson (37:31):
I had a hand in it.
I wasn't the only one.
Helen (37:34):
Well, true, true.
But again, the idea came fromthat initial group and I am so
happy for what you've built andso thankful that there are folks
like you and all of thevolunteers involved, with Marg,
out there searching andpreparing to rescue and bring
(37:56):
folks home to their families.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you for your time, dan.
This is great.
Okay, wow, what a legacy Danhas been a part of building, as
he's helped so many familiesreunite or bring closure to them
.
Who to thought?
from Eagle Scout to mountainarea rescue group.
(38:19):
If you'd like to learn moreabout the rescue group, jump
down to the show notes for linksto their page, maybe even
investigate how you can getinvolved in a local rescue group
near you.
If you're enjoying the content,please help me grow the podcast
, and you can do it in threesimple ways.
You can leave a five starwritten review wherever you
(38:42):
download your podcasts, andwritten reviews help the podcast
get into the algorithms and popup in the recommended for you
section so others can discoverthe podcast.
Another way you can help thepodcast is to tell a friend
about us, share your favoriteepisode, share an episode you
(39:04):
think they may be interested inAnd, lastly, you can support the
pod on buy me a coffeecom.
I literally run on pumpkins.
So just three small ways tohelp the podcast and ensure your
support and love.
And don't forget to connectwith me on social media Facebook
(39:27):
, twitter, instagram or you caneven drop me a note, say hello,
ask a question, submit an ideafor a future episode at a
convose pod at gmailcom.
You can jump down to the shownotes for all of my social media
links and my email address, andI can't thank you enough for
(39:48):
listening.
I'll see you in two weeks.
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!