Avatar Nation: S1 E05 — "Spirited Away" - Avatar Nation

Episode Transcript
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Pauline (00:35):
Welcome to Avatar Nation, a podcast, all about the
Netflix live adaptation ofAvatar: the Last Airbender.
Whether you're a longtime fanlike us, or you're new to the
Avatarverse, join us as we diveinto each episode and analyze
the retelling of TV's greatestadventure.

(01:13):
Welcome back, everybody! I'myour host, Pauline.

Wes (01:16):
And I'm Wes, and I have to say I am full from that fuller
of an episode.
Wait, filler of an episode.
I guess we are halfway, overhalfway through.

Pauline (01:28):
We are over halfway through.
How do you feel about that?
I feel full.
Is that a good thing or a bad

Wes (01:34):
I just, it's

Pauline (01:35):
know.
I feel like the episode was afiller! Yeah, it was definitely
a setup episode, I would say.
I think there are no fillerepisodes when it comes to
Avatar.
I mean, there's some that mightlean towards filler episodes,
but there's always somethingimportant going on there that

(01:55):
helps sets up for the nextepisode, but I see what you're
saying, this one, it was not myfavorite.

Wes (02:01):
It wasn't bad, I'm just, what a cliffhanger, huh?

Pauline (02:04):
But there are several other episodes that have a
cliffhanger ending.
Omashu, for example, right?

Wes (02:11):
Yeah, I agree.
Also, props to you for giving meadvice on turning on the
subtitles.

Pauline (02:18):
Yeah! I give that advice to everybody.
I am a subtitles girly.
No matter what it is I'mwatching, if it's something new,
if it's something I've watchedover and over again, I love
having subtitles on.
And I know I'm not alone outthere, but I don't know, I just,
it's, I have a hard time

Wes (02:34):
things

Pauline (02:36):
things just verbally or auditorially.

Wes (02:39):
auditorially.
I have to say I agree with

Pauline (02:41):
But No,

Wes (02:44):
No, but for this episode, seriously, if you didn't have
the subtitles on, you missedsome background stuff

Pauline (02:50):
Yes, for sure.
If you aren't a subtitle person,watch it through without
subtitles once, and then upon rewatching because we re watch
episodes before discussing them.
The second time, I definitelyrecommend having subtitles on
because there's some nuggetsthere that, you don't catch,

Wes (03:07):
They made the episode a little better.

Pauline (03:09):
Yes I can't wait to get into this episode for good and
bad reasons.
The crazy thing is we only havethree episodes left after this.

Wes (03:18):
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to it.

Pauline (03:20):
You sound so excited.
I'm right down the I'm right

Wes (03:23):
down the

Pauline (03:24):
you are right down the middle because every, I feel
like you've loved every otherone and then like the ones in
between those you're not such abig fan of so.
All right well before we getstarted talking about this
episode i do just want to remindeverybody and encourage you all
to follow and subscribe to thispodcast that way you don't miss

(03:44):
out when we come out with newepisodes and it would just help
the podcast a lot and it means alot to us if you do so

Wes (03:52):
Alright, Pauline, you ready to get into this episode?

Pauline (03:55):
episode?
Alright, let's do it! So for ourEpisode Tea for this one the,
all the nitty gritty details aswe know, this one is titled
Spirited Away.
It is an obvious nod to theStudio Ghibli film, Spirited
Away, which we love.
Shout out to Hayao Miyazaki.

(04:17):
I didn't google to confirmthat's why they called this
episode Spirited Away, but it'sno big secret that the original
creators of Avatar took a lot ofinspiration from Miyazaki and
that played a big role in thecreation of Avatar, The Last
Airbender so I would say evenwithout googling I am 99.

(04:37):
9 percent confident that thistitle is a nod to

Wes (04:42):
Hopefully no one fact checked you.

Pauline (04:45):
Yeah, maybe we need someone to fact check us

Wes (04:47):
check us.
And

Pauline (04:48):
And then the episode was directed by Roseanne Liang,
known for Shadow in the Cloud,Do No Harm, and My Wedding and
Other Secrets.
Writing credits go to GabrielLlanas.
He has written for Grey'sAnatomy, National Treasure: Edge
of History, and Walking Dead,The Ones Who Live.

Wes (05:06):
have

Pauline (05:06):
Have you watched The Ones Who Live, or are you in the
middle of watching that?

Wes (05:09):
Of watching that?
I mean, is that a name of anepisode, or is that the name of

Pauline (05:14):
I thought that was the series, the spin off series.

Wes (05:17):
watched The Walking Dead.

Pauline (05:19):
Oh, just the main?
Okay, gotcha.
Alrighty, well, do you want todo our episode recap and remind
everybody what all went down inthis episode?

Wes (05:27):
Let's get it on.
The episode kicks off with TeamAvatar evading Firebenders in a
thrilling forest chase.
Narrowly avoiding capture, theydiscover an Earth Kingdom
village affected by the FireNation's destructive actions,
leading Aang to promise therescue of villagers believed to
be trapped in the spirit world.
Elsewhere, Zuko gets a new leadon Team Avatar's whereabouts.

(05:49):
Upon investigating, he learnsthat the word of the Avatar's
return has spread, diminishinghis hopes of capturing him.
Frustrated by his potentialcompetition, he reluctantly
hires June, the bounty hunter,to find Aang.
Meanwhile, in the Fire Nation,Azula convinces Fire Lord Ozai
to provide additional resourcesto Commander Zhao.
However, her attempt to gainfavor fails, showing early

(06:12):
cracks in her confidence.
In the spirit world, Team Avatarfinds themselves face to face
with Wan Shi Tong, the Spirit ofKnowledge.
Their journey takes a moredangerous turn when they
encounter Hei Bai, an angryforest Spirit that attacks them.
The trio are separated in thefog of lost souls, which forces
them to face deeply personal andpainful memories.
Katara relives the day the FireNation attacked her village and

(06:35):
killed her mother, and Sokka isbrought back to the day of his
ice dodging ceremony, where heoverheard his father's
disappointment in him.
Aang, however, is strong enoughto resist his memories, though
his resolve is tested by Koh,the Face Stealer, a primal
spirit seeking to prey on theirsouls.
He escapes Koi, Koh, he escapesKoh and emerges from the fog,

(06:58):
leading to an emotional reunionwith Gyatso, who stayed in the
spirit world to wait for Aang.
Gyatso tells Aang to let go ofthe guilt he feels for the
destruction of the Southern AirTemple.
Aang also learns that hisfriends and the villagers will
be devoured by Koh, and that theAvatar who last faced him was
Roku.
Guided by Gyatso's wisdom, Aangresolves to seek out a

(07:19):
connection with Avatar Roku athis shrine so he can confront
Koh.
The episode ends with Aangjourneying to the Fire Nation on
his own.

Pauline (07:30):
Alrighty, thanks for reading our recap.

Wes (07:32):
That was fun.
Shall we get into our cabbagerating?

Pauline (07:36):
Yeah, let's talk about it.
Do you want to go first or doyou want me to give my cabbage
rating

Wes (07:40):
I feel like you're looking at me like, you want to go
first.

Pauline (07:44):
It doesn't matter to me.
Okay, so for my cabbage rating,I'm not gonna lie, I started out
at a 5.
That's how I immediately feltafter the episode ended.
And then after rewatching itand, doing all my notes I did
bump it up to a 6.
So, It's still my least or Iguess my lowest rated episode of

(08:06):
the season so far.
I bumped it up because I couldsee what they were trying to do
here and there was more to theepisode upon re watching it than
I initially thought.
So I am excited to talk aboutthat, but I just feel like, I
don't know, it was very hit andmiss.
There was a lot that they triedto pack into one episode and

(08:27):
then I feel like it caused theepisode to suffer.
That is my cabbage rating.
I am interested to see whatyours is.

Wes (08:34):
gosh.
So we already know my feelingsthat I think it was a filler,
which I'm very disappointed in.
But upon re watching with thesubtitles and getting a little
bit more information.
Also, I, there were more thingsI enjoyed the second time
watching.
I'm gonna give it a seven.
Oh, okay.

Pauline (08:56):
I'm kind of

Wes (08:57):
I was gonna get a five like you.

Pauline (08:59):
Mm hmm.

Wes (09:00):
But I think a seven.
I mean, they didn't do a badjob.
There were things that I reallyliked, I don't know if you want
to get into yet, but

Pauline (09:06):
are they part of your three key, personal key moments?
Okay, go ahead.

Wes (09:09):
Enjoyed I don't know if you've ever seen The
Frighteners.

Pauline (09:12):
What's that

Wes (09:12):
It's a movie with Michael J.
Fox.
Came out in like 1996.

Pauline (09:18):
like a horror

Wes (09:19):
movie.
It is, right?
So, um, When they went into thespirit world with Aang,

Pauline (09:23):
Aang

Wes (09:25):
Accidentally brings them all and like they like pop out
of their bodies as ghosts, sothat's like like a Felt like a
really cool homage to theFrighteners even though they
like they use the same I don'teven know

Pauline (09:38):
The visuals, The visuals was reminiscent

Wes (09:41):
Yeah, that's what I thought I was like, oh, that's really
cool.
I haven't seen that since Iwatched the Frighteners So I was
like, oh, that's really cool

Pauline (09:47):
so interesting you say that because we'll have some
words when we get to our, um,our key moments with our
honorable mention, our roughbuddy moment, and all that, I do
wanna say, I haven't shown youthis, but I looked back at how
you've well, how we've bothrated each of the past episodes,
and you have a pattern that youhave now broken because you

(10:07):
started out rating the episodesas a 5 and then you rated the
second episode as an 8, and thenthe third episode was a 5, and
then the last episode was an 8.
5, so you've had this up downpattern.
So I was fully expecting like afour or a five from you.
I would say I'm pleasantlysurprised.

Wes (10:24):
I gotta keep you and our listeners on their toes,

Pauline (10:26):
and I feel like with the exception of the last
episode, we've been prettyopposite.
All the episodes that you ratedlower I still rated pretty high,
so

Wes (10:40):
Yeah,

Pauline (10:40):
I'm shocked, but I shouldn't be shocked

Wes (10:42):
I think they've just broken me down and now I'm just You
said,

Pauline (10:46):
worn down.
Well then, with the cabbageratings out of the way, let's go
ahead and talk about ourpersonal key moments.
So we have our Avatar Statemoment, which is our favorite or
best moment, our That's RoughBuddy moment, our worst moment,
and then an honorable mentionfor each of us.
I want you to go ahead and gofirst for your Avatar State
moment.

(11:06):
So this was your favorite thingabout this episode.

Wes (11:09):
Okay so it was Gyatso choosing to stay to help Aang
instead of moving on to the nextstage of enlightenment.
What a powerful, I mean, that,that scene with him and Aang it
really tugged at my heart.

Pauline (11:25):
Did you cry?

Wes (11:26):
I did not cry.

Pauline (11:28):
You wanted to,

Wes (11:29):
wanted to cry, but it was, it touched me.
I thought it was, they did itreally well.
And, gyatso also telling Aang,to let it go.
You know, he wasn't, He wasn'tgonna be able to save them.
And, it's not his fault.
And then that kind of like it,that sigh of relief almost from
Aang.
It, was it a sigh of relief?

(11:49):
I took it as like a sigh ofrelief.
Like, sigh.
You know what it reminds me of?
It reminds me of Riley on InsideOut.
Oh yeah.

Pauline (11:59):
And uh, you know, where she was just holding on to all
those feelings and then shefinally just let it out and
cried

Wes (12:05):
We're making some crazy

Pauline (12:07):
like A shudder.
Yeah.

Wes (12:09):
but Yeah.

Pauline (12:09):
Well, yeah, because I have a terrible memory and I
haven't watched nearly as manymovies and shows as you have,
so.
I'm gonna have to rely on youhere to make the references to
other media but yeah, myreference for today was a Disney
Pixar movie, so.

Wes (12:25):
me concerning myself.

Pauline (12:27):
Pretty much the same.
That whole scene with Aang andGyatso and their tearful reunion
also tugged at my heartstrings.
I wanted to cry really bad too.
Similar to the the Leaves fromthe Vine moment with Iroh and
Zuko.
I did not cry.
I held it.
I kept it together.
But

Wes (12:46):
Pictures or it didn't happen?

Pauline (12:47):
It was mostly due to Aang's reaction and just how
Gordon Cormier acted out thatscene.
Uh, his, his Facial expressionsreally conveyed the grief that
he was holding onto and, it'simplied in all of the episodes.
The things that he's having tocarry.

Wes (13:05):
I'd like to say he's a great actor.
Yes.
Gyatso.
Like his laugh I just, he'samazing.
How he, you know, tricked Aang,you know, Oh, you cheated! You
know, Ahhh! Yes,

Pauline (13:17):
Brought back that playfulness, showing their, I
don't know if it was their lastpai sho game together, but
their, where they had left offfrom that game.
And yeah, just both of theirreactions and like you said,
Gyatso telling him.
That he doesn't have to hold onto that guilt.
It's not his fault.
And what he didn't say, what wasimplied, was that if he had
stayed, the Avatar would havebeen dead.

(13:37):
So it was a good thing that,destiny led him away from his
home that fateful night.
So we'll get more into that, butthat was also my Avatar State
moment.
What about your That's RoughBuddy moment?
So Okay,

Wes (13:51):
my Avatar State moment.
What about your That's RoughBuddy moment?

Pauline (13:58):
but I was gonna wait

Wes (13:59):
but

Pauline (14:00):
get into it.
So what

Wes (14:01):
to wait

Pauline (14:03):
I, I wanna see what,

Wes (14:04):
want to it's when Katara and her mom, were hiding in the
ice shed.

Pauline (14:11):
the i, the

Wes (14:12):
They're igloo.
Wow! I

Pauline (14:14):
know that

Wes (14:15):
ice shed.
Uh, But yeah, they're igloo.
So she knew it was gonna happen,but obviously, she goes in
there.
And she's the reason her mom gotkilled.
Like bending that water and theguy seeing it.
So I thought that was prettyrough.
Like, Holy crap, she's, she gother mom killed.

Pauline (14:35):
Did you like that moment?

Wes (14:36):
No I didn't like it.

Pauline (14:37):
you think, do you think that them adding that detail.
I was going to talk about itlater, but since you brought it
up, did you feel that themadding that detail made the
episode better?
Or, because are you sayingthat's that rough buddy because
of how it made you feel?
Like, that is a rough moment, ordid you just not like it

Wes (14:55):
moment, or did you just not like it at all?
Yes, very true.
Yes, so.
if you want to sit and listen,

Pauline (15:06):
Yes, very true.
Okay, so what was your That'sRough

Wes (15:09):
moment?

Pauline (15:09):
My Rough Buddy moment, it wasn't chosen because

Wes (15:12):
was

Pauline (15:13):
was a rough emotion or anything like that.
I just chose this because Ididn't like how they did it or

Wes (15:20):
because

Pauline (15:21):
it could have been done better

Wes (15:23):
like how they did it or it could have been done better.
Not how you feel, but just youthought they did it terribly.

Pauline (15:35):
It could be either way.
I don't, I

Wes (15:37):
I didn't want to ruin that

Pauline (15:38):
I don't want to necessarily put this in just one
box because it can meandifferent things for different
people.

Wes (15:43):
want to confuse people that are

Pauline (15:44):
Right, right.
So I, as long, I think as longas we're clarifying it, that um,

Wes (15:49):
sorry for interrupting

Pauline (15:50):
no, that's fine.
So you mentioned what was thatmovie you said?
The

Wes (15:55):
The Frighteners?

Pauline (15:56):
Frighteners.
Okay, so you mentioned thatscene where, they're being
pulled into the spirit world.
That was my That's Rough Buddymoment.
What?

Wes (16:04):
Why?

Pauline (16:05):
Because it felt a little cheesy to me.
Just the way that it lookedwhere they were glowing blue, it
did feel, it felt a little oldschool.
And because the thing is, afterthat moment, the way they fully
got pulled into the spirit worldlooked cool.
I think when that momenthappened where they were glowing

(16:26):
blue, I was worried that theywere going to look like that the
entire time they were

Wes (16:29):
No, but that was an homage to the cartoon, right?
Doesn't Aang look bluish when heis I guess initially maybe.
That's the thing about thespirit world in the cartoon

Pauline (16:47):
guess initially maybe.
That's the thing about thespirit world in the cartoon is
that the rules and boundaries ofthe spirit world are left
ambiguous on purpose.
And the rules shift as theepisodes go along and as they
build onto the lore of thespirit world.
So every time we encounter thespirit world in Avatar, The Last
Airbender, it, there's someslight differences each time.

(17:10):
It just felt a little cheesy tome at first that they were
glowing blue and I thought itcould have been done

Wes (17:15):
have been done differently.

Pauline (17:17):
I think if they just went straight into how they did
the visuals when they were fullyin, you know when Aang first
connected with Avatar Kyoshi?

Wes (17:25):
it blurry

Pauline (17:26):
blurry.
Yeah, had that kind of weirdlook, I don't know how to
describe that, but they did thesame thing again when they got
fully pulled in and it wasechoed first whenever they came
upon that Earth Kingdom villageand Aang could feel that the

Wes (17:42):
he felt the spirit world.

Pauline (17:43):
Yes, and that the veil was thin there that kind of like

Wes (17:46):
of like I'm making movements,

Pauline (17:48):
I'm making movements, which is not good for a podcast,
but yeah, I hope you're pickingup what I'm putting down.
That's just my opinion.
So that's my, that's Rough Buddymoment.
What about your honorablemention?
Something else that you liked?

Wes (18:00):
what about your Honorable Mention?
Something that you, somethingelse that you liked?
did like them.
Um, so, Yeah, that's a goodhonorable

Pauline (18:20):
It's scary.
I did like Koh

Wes (18:22):
just

Pauline (18:23):
yeah, that's a good honorable mention.
What, how about you?
Mine was just the whole tavernscene with Zuko and Iroh.

Wes (18:27):
It was pretty funny.

Pauline (18:28):
So

Wes (18:28):
and they were kind of talking, you know, uh, that the
Avatar's been out doing all the,you know, the

Pauline (18:34):
Yeah we'll,

Wes (18:35):
Oh, we're gonna get into that?

Pauline (18:36):
it, because there's a lot of good things to pull from
that one small scene.
So those are our personal keymoments.
Do you want to go ahead andreally dive into this episode
now?
Let's do it.

Wes (18:46):
Okay.
So we have a lot of things totalk about.
Before we get.

Pauline (18:52):
Into the theme, because for once I haven't told you
ahead of time what theme Ipulled from this episode just,
let's just go ahead and get theopening and really the whole
beginning out of the way.
Then we'll get into theme andtalk about some of the
characters as well.
So first of all This one almostmade my honorable mention, but I

(19:13):
really liked the way they didthe cold open in this episode.
Jumping straight into them,running through, the forest,
trying to escape the Fire Nationsoldiers.

Wes (19:22):
Yeah, like, how many of them are there?
I don't know, five?
Maybe more?

Pauline (19:28):
So I, it was just, it was different.
And I think at this point, sincewe're over halfway through, they
need to start throwing in,Different things to hold our
attention so I thought that wasgood.
Sokka had some great moments atthe beginning too.
I put down here Apparently,Sokka is the rizz bender

Wes (19:46):
rizz

Pauline (19:46):
the

Wes (19:46):
Bender as the rizz, like cover

Pauline (19:50):
rizz comes

Wes (19:51):
ears.
Do you know what a rizz Bender

Pauline (19:56):
years kids?
rizz comes from

Wes (19:59):
We have

Pauline (20:00):
We have an 11-year-old, so.
we hear all the

Wes (20:04):
the We hear what

Pauline (20:05):
youth these days

Wes (20:07):
I am not gonna pretend like I'm hip.

Pauline (20:09):
But do you know what I'm talking about though that
apparently

Wes (20:11):
yeah, he's a player!

Pauline (20:13):
He's great with the ladies and I think it was I was
it like maybe a Fire Nation girlor something that he

Wes (20:21):
Yeah, how do you know, how are you supposed to know she was
a spy?

Pauline (20:24):
Is that what they said?
I think so.
Oh, okay.
So I thought that was funny.
It adds to his, ladies man typeof persona.
There were a couple callbacks tothe cartoon too with Sokka when
he saw that little girl and hesaid, my name is Sokka.
It rhymes with okka.

Wes (20:39):
the Waka Waka.

Pauline (20:40):
And,

Wes (20:41):
in

Pauline (20:42):
the same

Wes (20:42):
breath, he pulls out a Pippinpaddleopsicopolis the
Third.
Right.
That was brilliant.

Pauline (20:48):
I want to hear you say it, because I already said it in
one of our previous episodes.
You say it.

Wes (20:54):
Pippa Paddle Popka Locka, yeah.
Don't judge me.

Pauline (20:58):
And even harder is try spelling it,

Wes (21:01):
yeah,

Pauline (21:01):
Which, by the way, Netflix subtitles totally got
that wrong.
There is a right way to spellPippinpaddleopsicopolis.
They split it up in two names,so Netflix, I have a bone to
pick with you.

Wes (21:12):
That's what you

Pauline (21:14):
Put some respect on Bonzu Pippinpaddleopsicopolis,
the third.

Wes (21:18):
Okay let's see,

Pauline (21:20):
Okay let's see, what else was at the beginning?
Here's a negative that lent tomy cabbage rating.
The beginning was veryexposition heavy.
I know that there's a lot toexplain when it comes to the
spirit world, but Aang was justinfo dumping, and I think part
of it too is the fact that itwas Aang that was having to
explain all of this, because, ifyou're a first time watcher,

(21:43):
you're probably wondering, wheredid you

Wes (21:45):
saying, I don't know what I'm doing, but here's the

Pauline (21:48):
info.
Yeah, so which one is it?
Do you know what you're doing,or do you not know what you're
doing?
But to me, that's on thewriting.
The whole episode, though, likeyou said, it does have a horror
esque vibe, which the otherepisodes did not, I think back
in the day when shows had, orcartoons had like, their
Halloween episode or Halloweenspecial, if this was back in the

(22:08):
day, this would have been theHalloween special, so.
Agreed.

Wes (22:12):
Sokka's interaction with the little girl was super sweet.
I know you have the Pippa Papapalopolis thing, but just his
whole interaction with her wasreally sweet.
I'm really liking Sokka.

Pauline (22:23):
me too.
I think I've liked Sokka fromthe beginning and his portrayal
of his character has been prettyconsistent and consistently done
well.
So yeah, that was a good sweetinteraction.
What was not a sweetinteraction, but I still liked
it just as much, was Zuko andLieutenant Jee.

Wes (22:40):
Oh, yeah, I actually wrote that down.
Cover your ears.
I wrote, Zuko is a

Pauline (22:45):
Babe.

Wes (22:48):
his soldiers! I mean, come on! Yeah,

Pauline (22:51):
he's not very nice to Lieutenant Jee, and we've seen
that in past episodes as well.
And I feel bad for Jee, becausehe's just doing his job,

Wes (23:00):
job.
Well, yeah,

Pauline (23:02):
Well, yeah, I think it's been hinted at, but I mean,
that's Zuko's doing though.
Okay, so first of all, in thisinteraction, we get a really
sassy Zuko.
Oh yeah, he even does

Wes (23:14):
even does it with his face

Pauline (23:15):
and his

Wes (23:16):
his movements, he's

Pauline (23:17):
sassy.
Yeah I'm gonna channel some ofthat sass

Wes (23:20):
They can't see you, babe.
They can't see you,

Pauline (23:23):
I know I'm doing the head thing cuz what was it that
he said he was like, so you meanto tell me

Wes (23:28):
tell me?

Pauline (23:30):
Oh my gosh, that was just that was amazing.
Side note about Zuko's scarbecause I feel like a lot of
fans have been harping on hisscar and its appearance and that
it's not prominent enough.

Wes (23:44):
It's a scar!

Pauline (23:46):
like So when I was watching him talk to Jee.
I it I don't know why it came uphere, but It made me realize
that his scar reminds me a lotof the scar that I had on my leg
that I got because I got badlyburned there.
Side story, when I was a kid.
It was a really hot Missouriday.
There was some sort of equipmentsitting outside.

(24:06):
It had been sitting out in thesun all day and it had like this
metal piece to the side of it.
It was so hot that I'm sure youcould have like cooked eggs on
it or something.
It was very hot and I wasplaying near it and my leg touch
this the metal part and it wasso hot that I didn't even
realize that I was being burnedIt actually felt cool at first

(24:30):
because it was so hot, it was areally weird sensation.
And then eventually I startedfeeling like really bad pain.
So it burned layers of my skinlike it was this is Probably
probably a graphic way ofdescribing it, but it was like
white bubbly skin, and when itdid heal, it looked like Zuko's
scar.
That's exactly what my scarlooked like, albeit a smaller

(24:52):
scar but that's how it lookedfor years and years, and even
into adulthood.
It's mostly faded now.
I'm surprised that it's startedto go away.

Wes (25:02):
away, but, I'm just, I'm just saying, his scar,

Pauline (25:05):
Hot take.
It is pretty realistic,

Wes (25:08):
relaxed.
That was,

Pauline (25:09):
I know, like I really

Wes (25:10):
have to edit that down.
But it makes him

Pauline (25:13):
it makes it more interesting instead of just
plowing through

Wes (25:15):
yeah, his scar looks fine.
It looks like he got burnt inthe face.

Pauline (25:20):
his scar alone.
Leave Zuko alone.
Okay, I just had to get that outof the way, get it off my chest.
I stan his scar.
But yeah, so Zuko and LieutenantJee's whole interaction, I would
say is, it's planting the seedswith Lieutenant Jee.

Wes (25:38):
He's basically a spy now

Pauline (25:40):
I mean, but I wouldn't you say it's a direct result
from how Zuko was treating him?
Yeah,

Wes (25:45):
Yeah, he's treating him like a housemaid.

Pauline (25:48):
So I like how Netflix has planted the seeds with where
things may be going withLieutenant Jee.
So this whole thing is unique tothis series, or to the Netflix
version.
Speaking of planting the seeds,let's go ahead and get into our
theme.
So first I want to bring up thatthere is one scene where Azula

(26:09):
said to Ozai that they shouldwater the most promising seeds,
right?
And in one of the beginningscenes, Katara says to Aang,
seeds are for the future, notpast mistakes.
And that's when she hands himthe seed when they discover that
the forest

Wes (26:25):
him the seed, and went

Pauline (26:28):
my quotes.
So, the Theme that I pulled fromthis, and again, this is, I'm
not saying like this isdefinitively the theme of the
whole episode.
I'm sure people would havedifferent opinions, but this is
just what I got out of it.
So the question here is, whatseeds are being watered?
And I feel like this playsthroughout the whole episode,

(26:50):
and I do want to talk about it.

Wes (26:52):
Plays throughout the

Pauline (26:57):
go right ahead.

Wes (26:58):
Truth.
Finding the truth.
I do want to talk about it.
Although, I believe Aang findingout his truth with Gyatso
telling him, you weren't goingto be any help, you were going

(27:20):
to die.
That's his truth, right?

Pauline (27:23):
Mhm.

Wes (27:24):
Katara and Sokka's truth were more painful.

Pauline (27:30):
I thought about that too because they did mention
truth.
I would almost say that youcould almost swap seed with
truth.

Wes (27:40):
truth.
You

Pauline (27:41):
You see what I'm saying?
Which, it'll, it may it'll, itwill make more sense as we talk
about it.
But, do you see where I'm

Wes (27:49):
going I see where you're going.
What truths are being watered?
Yes.
Are you answering that?

Pauline (27:56):
We

Wes (27:56):
Oh, we're gonna answer

Pauline (27:57):
get to it.

Wes (27:58):
doing a podcast, ladies and gentlemen.

Pauline (28:00):
First I want to talk about The spirit world.
Since a lot of this takes placein the spirit world, let's go
ahead and talk about the spiritsand some of the things that they
encounter in the spirit world.
So first, spirit.
is Wan Shi Tong, and he is theSpirit of Knowledge.
A lot of Avatar fans alreadyknow this, Wan Shi Tong, the

(28:20):
translation for that is He WhoKnows Ten Thousand Things.
Fun fact though, he is voiced byRandall Duk Kim, and he was in
The Last Airbender movie.
That shall not be named, themovie that shall not be named.
He played I think an old guy, orlike an old man in one of the
temples.
That's right.
That's cool that he was in that,and then he gets to be in this
series as well.

(28:41):
And then I think he's most knownfor being the turtle in Kung Fu
Panda.
But you're more, you and Zoe aremore familiar with Kung Fu Panda
than I am, but he voices theturtle.
So next time you guys watch KungFu Panda,

Wes (28:54):
time you guys watch Kung Fu Panda, Watch a tongue.

Pauline (28:57):
What did you think of uh,

Wes (28:59):
of uh, Uh, Uppity and uh, I wonder if he tastes like
chicken.
Oh

Pauline (29:04):
my gosh.
Okay, you are Sokka.
Oh my goodness.

Wes (29:08):
I mean, it was good.
Wan Shi Tongue.

Pauline (29:10):
I'm not sure how I feel about them putting Wan Shi Tong.
In this season, and I'm probablygoing to reiterate this a few
times while we discuss itbecause a lot of things are
being pulled from, differentepisodes or different seasons so
we meet Wan Shi Tong muchearlier than we do in in the
cartoon, which Typically, Iwould not have a problem with,

(29:33):
but then, it makes me wonder,how does this affect the events
of Season 2?
Because uh, Wan Shi Tong firstappeared in the cartoon in a
very important episode.
Just interested to see how Theygo about that.
But, asides from that, I get whyhe was here.
He's a spirit.
This is spirited away.

Wes (29:53):
I wonder if they're gonna stick with, only the Avatar
knows what the animals aresaying.

Pauline (29:57):
The spirits.
The spirits, yes.
Yeah.
Is that, I mean, they gottastick with it now, right?

Wes (30:03):
right?
I don't, they

Pauline (30:04):
So that, so yes, you're right, you did bring up a good
point.
In the original, Aang is not theonly one that can understand the
spirits.
Katara and Sokka can understandWan Shi Tong just fine.

Wes (30:17):
Let's move to my next, the next one, which was one of my
favorites, which is

Pauline (30:21):
Hei Bai.
Hei Bai was one of yourfavorites.
So Hei Bai is the spirit of theforest.
Again, it's no secret that thetranslation of his name is black
and white.
The thing is, the people whohave only watched this, they
don't realize that he is a pandaspirit.
Unless you got that from thestatues, because they did show
the Hei Bai statue.

(30:41):
And it's a statue of a panda,but I wasn't sure if that was
clear to everybody.
But, yep, Hei Bai, black andwhite.
You reminded me of Venom.
From, from

Wes (30:53):
Marvel,

Pauline (30:54):
Oh, okay.
See, I'm not the Marvel nerd,but I'm sure many people
listening are,

Wes (30:59):
I bet they would agree.
It was awesome.
Oh, by the way, I had a questionon Hei Bai.
He did the Towards the end ofhis sequence he did the open his
mouth, the light shines,

Pauline (31:11):
right?

Wes (31:12):
Was he releasing the fog of confusion, or the fog of lost
soul, whatever

Pauline (31:17):
that is?
Fog of Lost

Wes (31:18):
Was he spewing that out of his

Pauline (31:20):
That's my question too, cause I wasn't sure.
And I don't know.
It looks like it, but I don'tknow for sure if Hei Bai is the
cause of the Fog of Lost Souls.

Wes (31:31):
souls.

Pauline (31:32):
The only reason why I would think no is because, I
mean, unless he did that everysingle time somebody came into
the spirit world, cause I mean,the villagers were lost in there
too that's a good question but Idon't know.
Anyways, loved Hei Bai, lookedscary, but, I mean, the original
did too! It

Wes (31:52):
the original did

Pauline (31:55):
original.
Oh yeah, and I loved how theyshowed the scar, and that the
scar was also on the statue, soI thought that was a nice touch
too.
What about Koh, the FaceStealer?
Koh was my favorite.

Wes (32:07):
What about Koh the Face Stealer?
Koh is my favorite.
Oh yeah, that's right.

Pauline (32:14):
So very scary.
So the name Koh, just a fun facthere is similar to the Japanese
word kao, which means face,

Wes (32:24):
Well, I think that's

Pauline (32:28):
Well, I think that's a close enough pronunciation, kao.
So koh feeds on people who are,and this was a direct quote,
paralyzed by despair and doubt.
So that's a slight differencefrom the cartoon where he fed on
peo or he stole the faces ofanybody that showed any kind of
emotion.

Wes (32:47):
What

Pauline (32:47):
what did you think about that change?
They

Wes (32:49):
that change?
I, they rushed into it, but Idon't know.
Cause what in the cartoon, hegot all the information about
Koh from Avatar Roku, so therewas no information when he went
in, in the live action.

(33:10):
That's the only thing I mean,you weren't supposed to look at
him.
Make any

Pauline (33:14):
Emotions.
Yeah I mean, I think if theywould have done a bunch of
explaining about Koh beforehand,then I would have really felt
like it was Heavy on theexposition, so I can see why
they didn't have that.
I still think they, they did Kohjustice even with the slight
differences.
They say people paralyzed bydespair and doubt, I mean that's

(33:34):
still a type of emotion,

Wes (33:36):
a type of emotion.

Pauline (33:38):
He's so scary.

Wes (33:40):
Super scary.
And what did Aang steal fromhim?
I wanna know.

Pauline (33:44):
find out.
Fun fact with Koh, he is voicedby George Takei.
So, Yeah, so I mean, obviouslyGeorge Takei has done many, many
things.

Wes (33:54):
He was in the original

Pauline (33:55):
He was.
As most people know, he's knownfor Star Trek but in the
original Avatar, he voiced theWarden.
I didn't pick up on it whenfirst watching the episode, so
I'm a little ashamed that Ididn't realize it was George
Takei, but now, I can't un hearhis voice so I think they made a
good choice with bringing inGeorge Takei to voice him, and

(34:18):
honestly, bringing in thesedifferent OG Avatar voice actors
to voice different things.
Okay
so a few other encounters in the spirit world.
There was the white fox thattalked to Sokka.
Which is something completelynew, so we're not sure where
they're going with this whitefox.
All I can say is that it itReminded me of the Foxy

(34:40):
Knowledge Seekers from the WanShi Tong episode in the cartoon.
What did you think of this foxor the purpose of this fox?

Wes (34:47):
So it's telepathically communicating with Sokka.

Pauline (34:52):
mean, It's, mouth was moving, wasn't it?

Wes (34:54):
Can I pull it up real quick?

Pauline (34:57):
See?

Wes (34:57):
Okay.
Mouth's moving.
Blew whatever I was going to sayout of the water.
I loved it! No, it was okay.

Pauline (35:06):
Like,

Wes (35:07):
What did you think?

Pauline (35:07):
you think?
I know that there is a purposefor this fox.
I mean, there has to be.
Otherwise, it would just besuper random.
The voice has a very distinctvoice.
Without saying any spoilers, Iwant to say that this is
probably in relation to a futurecharacter.
Oh, After, after, yeah.

(35:32):
I will let you know.
I will let you know.
What I didn't catch is what's onits tail.

Wes (35:38):
I know that they made the sound, and they kinda zoomed in,
not really zoomed in, but

Pauline (35:44):
Mostly even the sound.
So

Wes (35:45):
ching! Maybe she was just showing her bling off.
you think that's like a cuff?
A

Pauline (36:00):
something like that, it's not very, it's not very

Wes (36:02):
So did that fox get into something and that's like You
know how a fish gets caught intrash?
Did that fox get some trashcaught on its tail?

Pauline (36:12):
That's just a little bit of mystery right there.
The fox also reminded me ofsome, looked like a Pokemon to
me, so.

Wes (36:18):
to me,

Pauline (36:20):
And then I also want to bring up the Fog of Lost Souls.
So in the cartoon, the Fog ofLost Souls, first of all, it
wasn't even in Avatar The LastAirbender.
This is something directly fromthe legend of Korra.
So I thought it was cool thatthey brought it into Avatar.
And in Korra, the Fog of LostSouls is a spirit of its own.

(36:42):
But, in the same way it, itdisorients people and, it messes
with them.
The only other thing I had aboutthe Fog of Lost Souls was
wondering whether or not Hei Baiwas the one that caused it,

Wes (36:52):
We're gonna say that the fog of lost souls came from Hei
Bai.
His mouth.

Pauline (36:58):
I'm gonna agree.
We'll just go with it.
Okay.
So that's all the spirit worldtalk.
Now I want to talk about, youalready brought up the truths.
So this is going back to ourtheme of, what seeds are being
watered.
Let's go ahead and,

Wes (37:13):
is so cheesy.

Pauline (37:22):
I am still trying to learn how to properly segue from
one thing to another.
We're not professionals here,people.

Wes (37:29):
That was

Pauline (37:29):
good,

Wes (37:29):
by the way.

Pauline (37:30):
So let's just, we're just gonna go in order.
So we will start with Katara.
So what seeds has Katara beenwatering?
And in my opinion, I think theseeds that she has been watering
is guilt and grief.
Because that's what her wholeflashback is about.
It's the one moment that she hasthe most guilt about.

(37:53):
And you already brought up thefact that Katara tried to

Wes (37:57):
and

Pauline (37:58):
that was the whole reason that the Fire Nation
soldier Knew that there was forsure a waterbender in that igloo
and katara's mom, Kya, had tosacrifice herself to protect her
daughter so, um, can I justgive, the actress for the young
version of Katara, I just wantto give her major props, because

(38:21):
She killed it, the way that sheacted that scene it was just
phenomenal.
She has, that girl has actingchops.
What did you think about themshowing the soldier roasting
Katara's mom.

Wes (38:35):
Well, she looks like he was, she was getting ready to
airbend, er, waterbend him, andshe could have killed him, so he
was basically defending himself.

Pauline (38:42):
Yes, but as we know, she is not the waterbender.
Yeah.
So she was just putting on anact yeah.
That was really sad.
And then what I was

Wes (38:52):
So What truth did she need to learn there, or what, or was
it just the truth that she gother mom killed?

Pauline (38:59):
It's them facing things that they haven't necessarily
talked about outright, and it'sjust something that they're
holding inside.
This is their truth that they'recarrying.
So for Katara, the seed thatshe's been watering is that I am
responsible for my mother'sdeath.
Yes,

Wes (39:15):
Which she is correct.

Pauline (39:16):
And that's why.
It showed in the Jet episode

Wes (39:19):
that

Pauline (39:20):
it was causing it was like a block to her waterbending
because that's what she keptseeing as the truth.

Wes (39:27):
Yeah, so what do you think, just speculate on what you think
is gonna get Katara out of thefog of lost souls?

Pauline (39:33):
Um, Aang.
Nevermind!

Wes (39:37):
Never mind!

Pauline (39:38):
already made a Frozen reference earlier, but an act of
true love! Oh gosh.
And then we have Sokka and hismemories that he's having to
face.
So the seed that Sokka has beenwatering this whole time is
doubt and shame.
If you were to go back and watchprevious episodes and really pay

(39:59):
attention to Sokka'sinteractions with other people,
you can tell that there is thisdoubt and shame that he carries
but we find out that it'sbecause of his father.
So this was something unexpectedsince it wasn't in the cartoon,
but His father Hakoda expressedhis disappointment in him.

Wes (40:20):
Yeah, his father's a butthole.

Pauline (40:22):
butthole.

Wes (40:23):
Seriously, Bato makes a better father than Hakoda.
You

Pauline (40:27):
You think

Wes (40:28):
so?
Oh yeah dude, he's just a littlekid.
You wanted him to I mean, he was

Pauline (40:41):
but I think we, what we have to remember is that no
character is black or white.
Everybody has a little gray areain them too but yeah, he was a

Wes (40:48):
he was, He was a little harsh.

Pauline (40:51):
It was unfortunate that Sokka did hear that.

Wes (40:53):
There was

Pauline (40:54):
And there was an important thing that Hakoda
said, I didn't write it down,but he said something along the
lines of, some people are justnot meant to have others lives
in their hands.
And I think that's gonna play akey thing in

Wes (41:08):
Sokka,

Pauline (41:09):
choices and feelings that Sokka has in the future.

Wes (41:12):
Okay, I don't like what they're doing With their father
Sokka in the cartoon is veryproud of his father and

Pauline (41:20):
looks up to him and he is still though.
He's, I, but I think that's whyhe feels even there's more
reason to feel shame is becausehe wants to be like his father.
He wants to make him proud.
Similar to some other charactersin the show

Wes (41:33):
giving him daddy issues, I don't like

Pauline (41:35):
it but I like it though.
Okay, because it adds layers, itadds some tension, adds some
conflict, and that there's somereconciliation that needs to
happen here.

Wes (41:44):
That's

Pauline (41:45):
that's my, that's what I think.

Wes (41:46):
Let's move on.

Pauline (41:47):
All right.
So now let's go to Aang and hismemories and his encounter with
Gyatso.
So first let me just go aheadand get the nerding out of the
way here.

Wes (41:57):
The

Pauline (41:58):
Color grading for when Aang was in the fog, well really
when all of them were in the foggoing from the fog to the
memories, it went from a verydesaturated tone then
transitioning to full colorwhenever they were being faced
with their memories.
And this was really apparentwhenever Aang went from the fog

(42:20):
and then stumbled out of the fogand it transitioned to full
color.
Very Wizard of Oz do you knowwhat I'm talking about?
Did you catch that?
You'll have, you need to rewatch it and see it because that
was pretty cool.
So anyways, let's talk about thequote unquote seeds that Aang
has been watering.
So I think it's the same asKatara he's been dealing with

(42:41):
guilt and grief and I would sayeven a little bit of doubt
because, in earlier in theepisode he talks about how he
doesn't know what he's doing asthe Avatar but he's almost
pulled into his memory of theSouthern Air Temple but he's
able to take a step back andrealize this is not real and
he's able to see through it andmove on so unlike Sokka and

(43:02):
Katara he's able to resist whatthe fog of souls or the fog of
lost souls is doing to him andthen that's where you know Koh
comes into the picture and Ithink Koh even says oh you're
able to

Wes (43:16):
That's how he realizes you're the Avatar.
yeah

Pauline (43:19):
maybe, do you think that maybe the Avatar has some
kind of immunity to it?
Or maybe just because the Avataris

Wes (43:26):
The Avatar is most powerful in the spirit world.
At least that's what they toldus in

Pauline (43:30):
Korra.

Wes (43:31):
a very powerful Avatar.
Yeah, I think him being able toresist is because he's powerful.

Pauline (43:41):
then we have him chased by Koh and then he stumbles upon
Gyatso and The most importantthing here is that Gyatso
absolves Aang

Wes (43:54):
Aang of

Pauline (43:56):
Any feelings of responsibility to what happened.
And I know we already talkedabout this because this was our
Avatar State moment but Ithought that was, like I really
was waiting for some kind ofmoment where someone tells Aang,
hey, buddy, it's not your fault.
I'm glad that they had Gyatso bethe one to do that because I

(44:16):
think that's even moremeaningful.
And Gyatso helps him realize,what's important and the people
he cares about here and now,yeah,

Wes (44:24):
yeah, I think we're gonna see

Pauline (44:25):
a

Wes (44:26):
a humongous growth from Aang'cause now he doesn't have
to bear the weight of feelinglike it was his fault.

Pauline (44:33):
Right, I agree.
I think Gyatso's role here ishelping him plant the seeds of
healing for Aang so that way hisguilt and grief and doubt can be
replaced with something elsethat will help him, grow to be
the Avatar and I feel like thatthey, whether this is
intentional or not,

Wes (44:54):
not, um,

Pauline (44:55):
They used Aang physically planting the seed as
a metaphor for this that he'sstarted, I don't know if I want
to say starting a new beginninghere, but because he's able to
start healing thanks to Gyatso,he's finally able to, what was
it that I said Katara said plantthe seeds for

Wes (45:13):
seeds for the future, not past

Pauline (45:14):
mistakes.
Correct.
So I think that's really whatall this episode is about was,
we have characters who arewatering the seeds that they
shouldn't be, which is theirpast mistakes, their burdens,
when they should be planting, orwatering the seeds of.
Yeah, the seeds that are goingto help them grow and become
better people.

(45:35):
So yeah, I think for Aang, whatreplaces all this hurt for him
is love and confidence, becausenow he has this resolution of,
okay, I am gonna go see Roku toget help to save the people that
I care about.
So he's made a decision here, hehas a direction, and he's
feeling a little bit moreconfident.

(45:55):
Or at least he seems that way,do you have anything else you
want to talk

Wes (45:58):
want to add?

Pauline (46:00):
Okay,

Wes (46:00):
so that

Pauline (46:02):
so that was with our core group there.
What's interesting is that Ifeel like this theme also
carries over to our Prince andPrincess of the Fire Nation.
Um, so, with Zuko, even thoughZuko and

Wes (46:17):
those,

Pauline (46:18):
Azula, weren't in the Fog of Lost Souls, obviously,
but I feel like that they'rehaving to face some truths of
their own.
And they have also been wateringseeds of things that are gonna
be holding them back.
I

Wes (46:33):
I'm glad you

Pauline (46:37):
I'm glad you say that.
Before we get there though.
With Zuko, I feel like the seedsthat Zuko has been watering is
despair and frustration.
And I don't know why, I know Ikeep saying this, but I love
that they are making thatdespair more obvious with this
version of Zuko.
I think a lot of people saylike, oh he seems more like a
brat in this version,

Wes (46:59):
But

Pauline (46:59):
I feel like it all stems from desperation.
Like he's losing control here.
his chances of returning homeare slipping away.
So wouldn't that drive you to,to act in ways that

Wes (47:11):
aren't

Pauline (47:12):
great?
Right.
Well, I think this episodereally taught us like, well, he
wants to play by the rules, butyou can't play by the rules.
You gotta get.
And that's

Wes (47:25):
Taking a big hit to his character.

Pauline (47:28):
Are you talking about because of June the bounty

Wes (47:31):
Yeah, and everything that, Iroh says, Zhao's basically
going to play dirty, too.
You can't play by the ruleshere.
And he's all about honor andkeeping that honor.
Honor.

Pauline (47:42):
honor.
Yeah.
Since we have brought up June,let's go ahead and talk about
her.
First of all, love June, lovedher in the original, love her
here too.
She's a queen.
Hitting on Iroh.
Yeah, so that was a change thatI think needed to happen because
in the original, Iroh is the onethat hits on June.

(48:02):
and it's very creepy.
It did not age well, the way thecartoon played that out.
It was nice to see that they hadreversed that and June was the
one that, was kinda hitting onIroh and that they did switch
that around.
I don't really have anythingelse to say about June.
I'm sure next episode we'll seea little bit more.

Wes (48:20):
Well, holler, holler out for the thing she was riding.

Pauline (48:24):
out to

Wes (48:24):
Shout out, holler out.
That's the same thing.

Pauline (48:27):
It's holler out?
Okay.
Um, Yeah, shout out to theshirshu, which we'll talk about
in our Animal Watch.
But I mean,.Yeah adapted Junepretty well, in my opinion.

Wes (48:37):
Yeah, that sounds like a cool reality TV show.
June the Bounty

Pauline (48:41):
the Bounty Hunter.
And then, I just want to goahead and talk about, since
we're here in the Earth Kingdomvillage with Zuko and Iroh we
already mentioned the tavernearlier and the funny moments
between Zuko and the tavern

Wes (48:54):
know the Tavern Keeper now, so Toph

Pauline (48:58):
And then the tavern Keeper grabs it, pockets it, and
then Zuko's like, so have youseen Waterbenders?
He's like, no.

Wes (49:04):
did love

Pauline (49:06):
I did love that.
But this is where we find outthat, and Zuko finds out that,
word of the Avatar has gottenout.
So that means his chances ofgetting to Aang first are
getting slimmer and slimmer.
And What I really loved aboutthis scene and part of why it
was my honorable mention wasthat it had quite a few
callbacks to the cartoon.

(49:26):
And this is where the

Wes (49:27):
subtitles Yeah, you wouldn't have known if you
didn't have the

Pauline (49:30):
subtitles Yes, the subtitles came in handy here.
If you guys didn't catch this,you need to go back and watch it
with the subtitles.
But The other people in thetavern they made direct
references to the pirates fromthe waterbending scroll episode
in the cartoon, the canyon guidefrom the infamous The Great
Divide, and then even to Aangfighting the volcano from the

(49:51):
fortune teller episode.
So those are all it's, it'sfunny that you mentioned that
this episode is a filler episodebecause what they shouted out
here were all the what somepeople believe to be filler

Wes (50:04):
from the cartoon.
They were sidequests.

Pauline (50:06):
Yeah.
So I thought that was a cool wayof bringing those in without
having to actually include themin the episode.
Because I knew that these werethings from the original that
was gonna get cut from theNetflix series.
But, without the subtitles, youwouldn't have really heard it
because

Wes (50:21):
really heard it.
It was well done, so.
and then, just last thing I want

Pauline (50:39):
was well done, and then just last thing I want to say
about Zuko here.
Well really, about Iroh, is thatI feel like Iroh is helping
plant the seeds for Zuko.
Just for his growth.
In what way?
So similar to how I said thatGyatso was helping Aang plant

(51:01):
seeds of healing and love.
I feel like Iroh was serving asimilar role for Zuko so we know
that Zu that, sorry, we knowthat Iroh had to convince Zuko
to hire June and he does thatbecause he sees that Zuko is
spiraling down this despair.
He just, automatically He goesto this place of, oh, all hope

(51:24):
is lost.
I'm never gonna find the Avatar.
As we know, Zuko's a little bitdramatic.
But Iroh is always there to helpsteer him away from that
despair.
To the best of his ability.
And And I think we'll continueto see, how Iroh will do these
things here and there to helpZuko heal a little bit, and

(51:45):
there's still so much about Zukothat we need to learn but I like
how, again, like a broken recordhere, they're planting the seeds
with their relationships, so.
does.
That make sense?

Wes (51:57):
you're gonna hate me, but no, I di I didn't see, I mean,
other than the pai shoreferences that he was making,
which I thought were, was cool,and I could see how that could
help Zuko if Zuko was like,getting what he was putting down
with the pai sho references.
And also, when he told him, youknow.
She's going to find the Avatar.

(52:19):
If she doesn't eat.

Pauline (52:20):
Who's she?

Wes (52:21):
June.

Pauline (52:22):
Oh,

Wes (52:22):
he was like, cause he's like, you know, she's a crappy
bounty hunter, and he's like,she's going to find the Avatar.

Pauline (52:29):
If

Wes (52:29):
she doesn't get paid.
She doesn't eat.
So I thought that was like a, Idon't know how they, how to tie
that in there, but I felt likehe said that for a reason, to
help Zuko.

Pauline (52:38):
help Zuko.
To reassure

Wes (52:39):
him?
Yeah.

Pauline (52:41):
That this is a good idea.

Wes (52:43):
idea.
Yeah.

Pauline (52:44):
I think what I'm trying to say is So if Zuko keeps
watering his, despair and hisfrustration, who's going to be
the one to help him steer awayfrom that?

Wes (52:55):
steer away from that?
I think we know the

Pauline (52:57):
answer to that.
Yeah, it's Iroh.
It's June.
It's not June.
Okay, so moving on from Zuko,let's go over to Azula.

Wes (53:07):
to What's

Pauline (53:08):
What was that sigh

Wes (53:11):
I don't, I know you're not supposed to like Azula.
Right.
But they're like, really?
I mean,

Pauline (53:17):
I love

Wes (53:18):
Azula.
beating up on that dude whenhe's like, Hey.
Oh,

Pauline (53:20):
stop.
Yeah.

Wes (53:21):
I mean, no means no azula

Pauline (53:23):
so to tie into our theme here what Azula has been
watering is jealousy and doubt.
Because she wants to be, goodenough for her father, and you
already mentioned it, that Ozaiis the one doing the watering,
but not in a good way.
Unlike Iroh, because I told youIroh steers Zuko away from, his

(53:44):
despair and whatnot.
Ozai is steering Azula towardsthis jealousy and this doubt,
and the way that he smirkedmakes me feel like he's doing
this on purpose.
He, He knows what he's doing.
So

Wes (54:00):
He knows he's gonna, he, like you said uh, water the most
promising seeds.
He's watering her.
Oh gosh, that sounds sohorrible.

Pauline (54:07):
don't, don't, Don't.
The thing is, I wouldn't it,it's kind of funny that Azula
was the one that said water themost promising seed.
And even though they are Firenation Ozai is not using water.
Here he is All fire

Wes (54:20):
fire.
I thought the water was just ametaphor.

Pauline (54:23):
It is, but it just, I just thought it was ironic.
Yeah he's

Wes (54:27):
He's spraying water on Azula.

Pauline (54:30):
Stop.

Wes (54:32):
Alright,

Pauline (54:33):
Okay, but you know what I'm saying though, and I'm,

Wes (54:37):
we get what you're throwing down.

Pauline (54:39):
So something's going on there with Ozai.
I love that they added this.
layer to Azula and herrelationship with her father
because this is new.
I thought it was a really goodway of showing what makes Azula
tick because otherwise it's likewe have an already crazy Azula
and no explanation as to whyshe's like that.

Wes (55:01):
to why she's like that.

Pauline (55:05):
Yeah and there's way more to Azula than just this but
I thought that it especiallylike for first time viewers, it
would make them understandAzula's character a little bit
more.
And then you brought up, hertraining session where she was
just beating on that guy, and itjust shows how Azula is
relentless, because I don't knowif that's been, and psycho, but

(55:28):
I feel like up to this, up untilthis point they haven't fully
conveyed how brutal Azula canbe.
Because, I mean, she does have asweeter face, and, it looks like
she just wants to impress herfather.
But no, she has a brutal side,and I don't know if you caught
this, but when she was about toroast that guy, you saw just a

(55:49):
glimpse of blue

Wes (55:51):
Maybe both of them, I can't remember.
It was Mai or Ty Lee.
So, I

Pauline (55:57):
Maybe both of them, I can't

Wes (55:58):
because I

Pauline (55:59):
it was Mai or Ty Lee.

Wes (56:01):
going to

Pauline (56:02):
I thought that was cool, because I didn't know if
we were going to get to see theblue fire, and then that adds
another question to Azula.
And just the worldbuilding ingeneral, like blue fire, who can
bend blue fire?
So, um, I liked seeing that.
And speaking of Mai and Ty Lee Ithink I like them better in this
scene, because I see whatthey're trying to do here with

(56:23):
Mai and Ty Lee.
The two of them, I mean I guesslike in the cartoon, the two of
them round out Azula but I thinkit's even more apparent, at
least with Mai, I feel likethey, added a little bit more
depth to Mai's character becausewhile Ty Lee feeds Azula's ego,
Mai keeps her in check.
Yeah, they dampen her psychoticness.

(56:46):
Yes, so I appreciated Ty Leemore in this scene.
Did you have any opinions?

Wes (56:52):
No, it was brief, but I wish we got a little bit

Pauline (56:55):
more.
Mhm.
I'm interested to see how Mai isgoing to play out because in the
cartoon, at least in thebeginning, she is really just
that trope of apathetic, gothicteenager, and there wasn't
really a whole lot to her.
I don't know, I didn't, before Isaid I didn't like Mai in this

(57:15):
version, but I might change mymind.
We'll

Wes (57:20):
You

Pauline (57:21):
You think so?

Wes (57:22):
Huh.
We

Pauline (57:24):
We will see.

Wes (57:25):
see.
Okay

Pauline (57:27):
Now that we've said seed so many times, and watering
and all that um, let's wrap upthis conversation of the theme
and just our deep analysis here.
Let's wrap it up with the endingof the episode so Aang gets a
new quest.
Aang decides to go to the FireNation so he can find Roku's

(57:48):
shrine and reach out to him.
And I don't know if we alreadysaid this, but Gyatso said Roku
was the last Avatar to confrontKoh, because Koh says he stole
something from him, but we don'tknow what that is.
I think it's interesting thatit's Roku that is in this role,
but I think they needed to finda way to bring in Roku.

(58:09):
They haven't

Wes (58:11):
Things are about

Pauline (58:13):
heat up.

Wes (58:15):
ha ha Ha!

Pauline (58:17):
yeah, for those that don't know, Okay, so one thing
that made me sad was when Aangsaid that he'll be back and
he'll come see Gyatso andthey'll have more time to talk
when he returns and Gyatso'sreaction tells me otherwise.
And I don't know, I have thisfeeling that he's not gonna be
there when Aang gets back.

Wes (58:38):
I think I was, I'm a little more optimistic about it
because, you know, time is afunny thing and maybe he's not
necessarily going to be therewhen Aang's done, but maybe in a
different time

Pauline (58:51):
Yeah, I hope so.
But the way that Gyatso had thatlook on his face like he was
about to cry, it was like, okay.
Anyways, I just wanted tomention that, and since you
brought that up, I do want to goahead and read Gyatso's closing
monologue.
I have a feeling maybe this willbe the clip that I play at the
beginning.
I haven't decided yet, but Iwanted to read it because it is

(59:12):
really good.

Wes (59:12):
You're gonna read the whole thing?

Pauline (59:14):
Yeah.
His monologue at the end, hesays, time is a funny thing.
The past, the future, it allgets mixed up.
There's only one way to keep itstraight.
It's by remembering what reallymatters.
Of course, keeping sight ofwhat's important can be hard.
Sometimes it feels like we'llalways be alone, and the only
one keeping us company is ourown pain.
We tell ourselves that we arethe problem, especially when

(59:35):
things we can't control come ourway.
That's why we must let go of ourpain and regret, and remember
what it is we're really fightingfor.
The ones we love.
Let that be the light thatguides you through the most
treacherous of times, and thedarkest of nights.
So I just thought that wasreally good, and showing all of
our main characters throughoutthat monologue Kind of reminding

(59:56):
what everybody is going throughand it made me realize that
everybody in this episode facedbeing alone with their pain at
some point.
Our main ones and also Zuko andAzula and so I thought that was
a nice neat little bow that theyadded to the end of the episode.
And then also just real quick inthese ending scenes, I noticed

(01:00:19):
that they made Aang and Azulafoils of each other.
So similar to how Iroh and Ozaiare kind of foils of each other.
In one of the last scenes, Yousee Aang come back from the
spirit world and he glances overat Katara and Sokka who are,
unconscious on the ground.
He glances at them and he knowsthat he needs to do what he can
to help them and then he leavesfor the Fire Nation.

(01:00:41):
One of Azula's last scenes,she's training and they show Mai
and Ty Lee sleeping.

Wes (01:00:48):
But

Pauline (01:00:48):
The difference with Azula is that she doesn't really
show that she cares about them.
She is focused on herself andshe continues to train and
train.
And it shows the differences andwhere their headspace is at
right now.
So I just wanted to shut

Wes (01:01:04):
to shout that out.
It's an interesting observation.
I like it.

Pauline (01:01:08):
Uh, about analyzing this episode?

Wes (01:01:10):
Analyzing this Anything in your notes that we

Pauline (01:01:12):
that we didn't get to?
I

Wes (01:01:13):
we covered everything.

Pauline (01:01:15):
Alright, so then let's go ahead and get into our
favorite bending moments.
I'll go ahead and say minefirst.
I there wasn't a lot of bendingin this episode, first of all,
because you can't bend in thespirit world but I did like
Katara's ice discs that she didat the beginning.
I thought that was a cool move.

Wes (01:01:34):
Discs here, and I thought that was a

Pauline (01:01:37):
What do you mean wasn't

Wes (01:01:38):
do you mean, wasn't original?
So, It was cool.
My favorite bending moment wasnone.
I mean,

Pauline (01:01:48):
what

Wes (01:01:48):
I think all the bending was done in like the first four
minutes of the episode.
And then you didn't have anymore airbending, er, bending,

Pauline (01:01:56):
sorry.
Yeah.
What about Azula in her

Wes (01:01:59):
true.
But right now, she doesn't looklike she's very good at bending.

Pauline (01:02:06):
What?
Where have

Wes (01:02:08):
what, what, what do we, What do we see her, I mean, like
a couple streaks of fire, but, Imean, it's not

Pauline (01:02:14):
I

Wes (01:02:14):
we, we know that she's powerful,

Pauline (01:02:16):
or.
I think we know that she'spowerful.
We haven't, they've purposelyheld back on showing

Wes (01:02:21):
how do we know she's powerful?

Pauline (01:02:23):
Because Do you see her flawless

Wes (01:02:25):
technique?
her flawless.
What?

Pauline (01:02:28):
Are you being scared?
Like What Ty Lee says, likeshe's perfect too.
Well, she's too,

Wes (01:02:32):
to.
She's a royal.
You

Pauline (01:02:33):
have to

Wes (01:02:34):
praise her.
or Azula could just have herkilled.
So true.
True.
I don't have a favorite bendingmoment.
I'm sorry.

Pauline (01:02:41):
sorry.
It's probably the same as yours.

Wes (01:02:46):
It's probably the same as yours.
my favorite character wasGyatso.

Pauline (01:02:51):
Oh, why's that?

Wes (01:02:51):
Just because I like that they brought him back and did
what they did with him.
Gyatso's sacrifice to,

Pauline (01:02:57):
to

Wes (01:02:58):
move on to the next stage of enlightenment, which I mean,
that's what they were living

Pauline (01:03:03):
what they were living for.

Wes (01:03:06):
Their friendship must be really strong,

Pauline (01:03:08):
I'm

Wes (01:03:09):
and I'm guessing we'll see him

Pauline (01:03:11):
again.
That's a good point.
I didn't pick up on that, thatit is a sacrifice to them,
because you're right, that'swhat they strive for.
Yeah.
That's what they strive for, isenlightenment, and, yeah.
He let that go so that he couldwait for Aang and guide

Wes (01:03:26):
that he could wait for Aang and guide him.
Do you think he'll have anotherchance to move on?
That's

Pauline (01:03:29):
move wonder is what's gonna, if that's what's gonna
happen when

Wes (01:03:33):
what's going

Pauline (01:03:34):
back, because now it's like

Wes (01:03:36):
when

Pauline (01:03:37):
feel like maybe Gyatso feels he's now done his part.

Wes (01:03:40):
now it's like,

Pauline (01:03:43):
they,

Wes (01:03:44):
feel like maybe Gyatso feels he's now done his part.
He's a

Pauline (01:03:55):
a ghost.
He's not a ghost.

Wes (01:03:56):
So his unfinished business is done.
His resolve, so now he can moveon.
Oh, that is sad.
So maybe that's why he's like,Oh, that's

Pauline (01:04:04):
sad! But I don't, but I don't think I'm thinking that he
had the choice of moving.
So unlike a ghost who can't,

Wes (01:04:10):
He's a ghost.

Pauline (01:04:11):
Crossover.
I think you said it was asacrifice.
He knew that he had a role toplay in the bigger picture and
he needed to be there for Aang,who is the Avatar.

Wes (01:04:22):
So who was your favorite character?

Pauline (01:04:24):
Aang, Because I felt for him.
It really all came down to thatscene with Gyatso and I think
that's why that was our Avatarstate moment.
But I feel Aang did a lot ofgrowing in this episode, going
from being confused and notknowing exactly how to take
action to, now he's takingaction.

(01:04:47):
If, yeah, Aang gets this one.
For

Wes (01:04:49):
me.
Awesome.

Pauline (01:04:51):
Okay, so then, with our animal watch we already shouted
out the shirshu, so let's goahead and talk about the
shirshu.
The Shirshu is one of the fewtriple hybrid animals in the
Avatarverse.
So it is a combination of amole, an anteater, and a

Wes (01:05:10):
a wolf.
Wow, I did not know that.
Yes.
I knew the anteater, and Ididn't know mole and wolf.

Pauline (01:05:17):
I knew it, but it, I didn't, I, it wasn't until
adulthood that I

Wes (01:05:21):
that part is the wolf, what's the

Pauline (01:05:23):
You have to go back and look at it like, it, it's like
the fur, and then maybe it'stracking abilities, but, the
anteater part, obviously, withthe tongue, and then it has the
snout of a mole, and it isblind, it relies on its
heightened sense of smell inorder to track things down and
then its saliva,

Wes (01:05:43):
is

Pauline (01:05:43):
is what causes people to get paralyzed so then it uses
its tongue as, a whip andparalyzes people.

Wes (01:05:50):
Yeah.
So

Pauline (01:05:51):
so that is the shirshu.
Also scary.

Wes (01:05:54):
Sheer Shoe.

Pauline (01:05:55):
So that was it, I

Wes (01:05:56):
think.
I think for Animal Watch?
Yeah,

Pauline (01:05:58):
Yeah, I mean, Netflix.
You can introduce more

Wes (01:06:01):
Yeah, they need to step up their

Pauline (01:06:02):
It's it's, they introduce whatever the um,

Wes (01:06:06):
could,

Pauline (01:06:12):
Um, but I feel like they are failing to build on the
world by showing animals otheranimals in the background and
Momo

Wes (01:06:20):
Momo grabbing that seed, though, at the beginning.
That was Yes, I'm

Pauline (01:06:25):
Yes, I'm still a little bit unnerved by Momo's eyes, or
appearance.
For those who are just listeningfor the first time, I went on
about Momo.
It's, he's cute but there's justsomething about his eyes.
It's like too cute that

Wes (01:06:43):
it's No, not

Pauline (01:06:46):
No, not even that.
Cause it doesn't, his eyes don'tlook like a lemur.
He needs to look, cause lemursare odd looking anyways.
They made him too cute.
Anyways, I'm getting off of thatsoapbox, and we are going to
move on to memorable quotes.
So real quick, my Memorablequote was his closing monologue

(01:07:07):
that I read,

Wes (01:07:07):
oh, that's a heck of an out.

Pauline (01:07:10):
But that's what I kept coming back to and and I think
it encompasses this wholeepisode really well.

Wes (01:07:16):
I agree.
I actually picked a, like alittle piece out of his
monologue.
Oh, you did?
Which was the only thing keepingUS company is our own pain,
which I feel like is prettydeep.
If you're depressed, I feel likeI felt like that sometimes.

Pauline (01:07:36):
sometimes.
Yeah, that's a good point.
It's interesting that eventhough we had quite opposite
cabbage ratings, we still hadvery similar opinions about some
of the different parts of thisepisode.

Wes (01:07:47):
of the different parts of this episode.

Pauline (01:07:50):
Oh yeah, that's true.
Alrighty, let's go to ourquestion of the week.
So we had just asked forthoughts on the spirits and how
the memories and the flashbacksmade you guys feel.
We did get An answer fromsomebody.

Wes (01:08:09):
Oh, awesome.

Pauline (01:08:10):
Oh who, who's, who's this from?
This is from Bailey M and theysaid Koh is Scary.
I screamed when he came on.
My favorite spirit, or myfavorite part was where Sokka
and Katara had to face their ownpast.
I did feel bad for Katara to seeher mom die again and for Sokka
to see his dad not believing inhim.
I agree.

(01:08:30):
Bailey Koh was very scary.

Wes (01:08:33):
I screamed too.

Pauline (01:08:34):
I screamed internally.
Koh is what mostly put thehorror element into this
episode, and I feel bad for anykid that watched this because, I
mean, Koh is the stuff ofnightmares.
I

Wes (01:08:48):
I agree.
I want to watch a scary moviewith just about Koh.

Pauline (01:08:51):
Koh.
Yes there's so much more to Koh,by the way,

Wes (01:08:55):
Oh boy, if you get to watch that in VR.
What?
Oh, if you could've watched thatpart in VR.
Oh, no

Pauline (01:09:02):
no thank you.
But yeah, there's so much moreto Koh that even you don't know
about.
So I hope we see more Koh in thefuture.

Wes (01:09:10):
So did you I mean they say that they feel bad For Katara to
see her mom die again.
Do you did you feel bad for

Pauline (01:09:18):
Katara?
Of course I felt bad for Katara,because

Wes (01:09:21):
that it was her fault

Pauline (01:09:22):
Yeah, because she was just a kid.
And, I mean, she's technicallystill a kid.
And to harbor that guilt of,such a life changing decision
that she made to try towaterbend.
And to be honest, I feel likeher mom probably would have died
even without

Wes (01:09:42):
like Gyatso ing her?
Don't worry,

Pauline (01:09:44):
Don't worry,

Wes (01:09:45):
you were gonna, die anyway.

Pauline (01:09:46):
gonna die anyway.
But that's part of, the seedthat she needs to water instead
of, you know,

Wes (01:09:52):
just, I don't get hers.
But thank you Bailey for yourcomment and your answer.

Pauline (01:09:56):
Yes, thank you so much.
Oh, and as always, I just wantto remind everybody that our
question of the week, we postthat on Instagram and Facebook.
If you have any thoughts andopinions, feel free to comment
under those posts and we'd loveto discuss them.

Wes (01:10:11):
Thank you, Bailey, for saving one winged lemur.
Ok,

Pauline (01:10:19):
I rewrap everything up, do you have any closing
thoughts?

Wes (01:10:23):
rewrap everything up, do you have any closing thoughts?

Pauline (01:10:35):
three episodes left.

Wes (01:10:37):
And next episode is about.
Well, you broke the trend.
I know.

Pauline (01:10:42):
Well, you broke the trend here, though.
You did.
So, We'll see what the next oneis.
I will say, knowing the title ofthe next episode You know it?

Wes (01:10:51):
Well, yeah, it's

Pauline (01:10:52):
Well, yeah.
It's there on Netflix.
It's called Masks.

Wes (01:10:56):
saying.
We

Pauline (01:10:57):
That's what I'm saying.
We know what's gonna happen.
I am predicting I'm gonna reallylike this episode.
This is the one I've beenwaiting

Wes (01:11:04):
for.
I'm gonna wear my mask.
Will you really?
Yeah.

Pauline (01:11:08):
Okay.

Wes (01:11:09):
We'll take a picture, we'll post it on our Facebook.
Okay.
And Instagram.

Pauline (01:11:13):
Yeah, those two.

Wes (01:11:14):
And Twitter.

Pauline (01:11:16):
No, not Twitter.
We are X.
We don't have

Wes (01:11:17):
snap photos.

Pauline (01:11:19):
Oh my gosh.
Wes is not a chronically onlineperson.
Okay.
So let's go ahead and close outthis episode.

Wes (01:11:44):
Alright, that's our show for today.
And as always, we appreciate youall for listening.
If you've been enjoying theseepisodes, we would absolutely
love if you leave us a rating tohelp other Avatar fans find this
podcast.
We also encourage you to followand subscribe so you don't miss
out on any of our new episodes.
And

Pauline (01:12:03):
we also love extending the conversation outside of this
podcast.
So follow us on Facebook,Instagram, and TikTok at Avatar
Nation Pod.
As much as we love giving ouropinions about this show, I
mean, we care about yours more.
So feel free to share yourthoughts with us.
And we might just, feature themon a future podcast episode.

(01:12:24):
With that said, I'm Pauline.

Wes (01:12:25):
And I'm Wes.

Pauline (01:12:26):
And you've been listening to Avatar Nation.
See you next time!

Wes (01:12:31):
ya.

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Avatar Nation: S1 E05 — "Spirited Away"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Avatar Nation: S1 E05 — "Spirited Away"