March 18, 2025 • 44 mins
The conversation continues with internationally acclaimed soprano Christine Brewer! She’s sharing more stories from behind the curtain, including the reality of on-stage mishaps, her perspectives on teaching young artists and how our life experiences shape the way music is both performed and felt. With many accolades including a star on the St. Louis Walk of Fame, she is a true star in every sense. But it’s her humility and kindness that shine through most in this heartfelt conversation. Join Ron Klemm and A. Dennis Sparger for another glimpse into the world of one of the greatest sopranos of all time on Bach Talk. View the Bach Talk Show Notes here. Learn more about The Bach Society of Saint Louis at bachsociety.org. Bach Talk is a Registered trademark of The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
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(00:01):
This is Bach Talk.
Soprano Christine Brewer began her careersinging in the choruses of the St. Louis
(00:22):
Symphony and Opera Theatre of St. Louis.
After winning the Metropolitan Operaauditions and the Richard Tucker Award
in 1989, Brewer performed with the topsymphonies and operas around the world.
Oh, by the way, I didn't write this.
As a matter of fact, I'm reading from thesidewalk, from a plaque that lies embedded
(00:45):
on Delmar Boulevard, right alongsidea star on the St. Louis Walk of Fame.
And on that star, the name ChristineBrewer is blazoned in gold.
It's an honor bestowed on only afew of the most influential, most
significant, preeminent St. Louisans,who have made a national impact
(01:08):
on our culture and our history.
Artists, performers, sports figures,entertainers, our region's most
recognizable figures, past andpresent, are permanently celebrated
on the St. Louis Walk of Fame.
But I digress.
Let me skip to the bottom.
(01:28):
A meticulous, yet down to earthartist, blessed with a golden voice,
Christine Brewer was named one of thegreatest sopranos of all time by BBC
Music Magazine in 2007, end of quote.
Hello
(02:02):
and welcome to Bach Talk, I'm Ron Klemm.
One of my greatest joys in life,I have to admit, is to know and
have friendships and conversations.
With some truly remarkable people.
And recently I had a chance tosit down with two such friends.
Bach Society Music Director andConductor Dennis Sparger invited
(02:23):
soprano Christine Brewer and me overto his Belleville, Illinois home.
We had a cup of coffee anda wonderful extended chat.
We talked about music and singing,of course, and about Christine's
amazing international career,including her many appearances with
The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
But we also talked about family, aboutrelationships, and about life itself.
(02:50):
I hope you've had a chance to hearour previous episode of Bach Talk,
when Christine shared thoughtsabout her musical beginnings, her
small town upbringing, her manytravels, and a bevy of other topics.
We want to pick up today where weleft off last time, and it will
become clear almost immediately thatChristine owes a lot of her concert
(03:12):
career to Maestro Sparger himself.
So many of these places you werespending a lot of time, especially
in preparing for an opera.
In the concert work, you were probablythere for a much shorter period
of time and didn't get to spend asmuch time with conductors and that.
Have you still built up a lotof long lasting relationships?
(03:33):
Yes, yes.
That's, that's good to bring that up tooabout the concert repertoire because, and
you were a big part of that, Dennis, when,um, I was sort of trying to start out and
figure out what, what I was going to do.
I remember I called you and said,can I come and audition for you?
Um, and you very kindly.
(03:53):
I probably said, no.
Who are you?
You wouldn't be here today if he said no.
And so you took a chance on me andhired me to start doing concert work.
Oh, I had to.
What do you mean you had to?
Well, at that time I was conductingthe Masterworks Chorale and had
(04:15):
a wonderful tenor, Tom Sturgis.
And his wife buttonholed me and shesaid, there's this young lady who sung
at our church and she's just terrific andDennis, you've got to hear her or else.
So you came over
That's good.
to my house.
I was living on the east endof Belleville at that time and
you brought along Elizabeth.
(04:36):
She sat underneath the piano whileI accompanied and you sang for me
and I said, okay, let's do this.
And, um, and you sang with usthat following fall and you did a
Bach cantata and was the soloistin the Brahms German Requiem.
And that started it all.
And uh, when I finally moved on to takethe position with The Bach Society,
(05:00):
you had already sung five timeswith The Bach Society with two of my
predecessors, but, uh, but you sang inmy first concert with, with The Bach
Society, uh, doing a Bach's cantata51, which was a big work for soprano.
It's a tour de force for a soprano.
It is.
I loved it.
(05:21):
Oh my gosh.
But that's the kind of stuff, and Iwould often, and I still, when I hear
a young singer who is probably going tohave a big voice, I tell them, if you
can get into doing concert repertoireand learn concert repertoire, this is a
way you can, you know, keep your voicehealthy as you're preparing your Strauss
(05:44):
or whatever, and you can earn a living.
And I said, that for me was huge.
And I've kept the concert repertoire upall through my career and because first
of all, because I love it, but it alsois a way to keep your voice and I'll
quote Birgit Nilsson because she was abig mentor for me, healthy and youthful.
(06:07):
Those were her two favorite words.
And every time she heard me singor she would write me a note about
something she heard on BBC, well, yourvoice sounds healthy and youthful.
This is good.
But she said for her one of thereasons she thinks her voice was,
you know stayed so strong was becausewhen she was performing She said
(06:31):
we didn't have this you could singin Berlin one night the next night.
You're gonna be in LosAngeles or New York.
She said I took the train to the nextand I would study my music quietly and
I didn't, you know, so she said try notto have your managers book you so many
back to back things or put in a concertthing before you do another opera.
(06:52):
And I really did.
I mean, I'd say probably 80 or 90percent of the time was able to do that.
There were some times I thought,Oh, I can't get rid of this.
I got to do this, you know,but um, but she was so right.
So because you took a chance on me andwe started doing concerts, it was like,
I love this repertoire, you know, and Ithink that's what kept my voice healthy.
(07:18):
Oh, that's terrific.
Yeah.
Wow.
I think.
But having been around the world,there's so many different places.
Are there some favorite hallsthat you love to sing in?
One of them is Wigmore Hall.
Oh, sure.
And it's in London.
Well, you've recorded there, too.
I have.
I have.
And I, I had my London manager, PeterBloor, who was, he was not just an agent.
(07:41):
He was a manager.
He would really, we would sitdown and he would say, okay, where
do you want to be in five years?
And how do we want to get there?
And as I knew that the Wagner was startingto come, and I started working on it.
With Miss Nilsson, in my early30s, I would say, 32, 33.
(08:02):
And, um, and she said too, shesaid, the Wagner will come,
the Strauss will probablycome before that.
So I sang a lot of Ariadne's, youknow, but she said, um, just, just
take your time with the Wagner and,and, you know, let your voice develop.
So I remember sitting down with Peterand I said, I would love to sing Isolde.
(08:22):
Um, Here's how I'd love to do it.
And at this point, I had been workingwith Donald Runnicles on, we had done,
um, excerpts from The Ring, from Valkyrie.
We did, um, some concertswith the BBC Symphony.
And, um, And I, in Berlin, I did thesecond act of Tristan and Isolde.
(08:46):
That was, you know, so Ihad a little taste of it.
But I said, I'd love to do the wholeopera, but if it's possible to do it in
concert the first time and to do it withDonald Runnicles, that would be great.
And
That's all.
They figured it out.
They did.
They did it, wow.
And Donald said, why don't we do threeconcerts and one night we'll do act one.
(09:09):
And the first halfwe'll do something else.
And then we'll do, next nightwe'll do act two, then act three.
And, um, and I was 40 when I did my firstIsolde and it was broadcast on BBC radio
and, um, someone from Warner Records,Was listening, I guess it was, I don't
(09:31):
know, maybe it was the second act night.
And he, he called my manager the nextday, he said, I was driving home from
somewhere, and he said, I had to sitin the car to hear who the soprano was.
And he said, um, we'd liketo have her record this.
And so they ended up, Warner,well then I had another offer too,
(09:53):
to sing it with Placido Domingo.
And, um, it conflicted when they weregoing to do the recordings that conflicted
with something else I was doing.
And I said, I, I never wanted tojust, you know, break a contract.
I just didn't do it.
Well, that's part of your upbringing.
I know, it is, it is.
So, um, my manager said, well,okay, you missed that opportunity,
(10:18):
but Warner records is goingto buy the recording from BBC.
So they, they released it.
So.
We've got it at least, you know,recorded, but, um, but I think having,
oh, but anyway, so, um, the WigmoreHall, how did I get off on that one, Ron?
I know, I know.
I'm sorry.
It's a good thing I could edit.
(10:39):
Yeah, really.
I told you I was going to be long winded.
Um, but Peter Bloor would make alist so that whenever I sang, and I
sang at Wigmore Hall several times.
Um, Several times.
And he made a list by composer, and weput what I sang by Harold Arlen, what
(11:01):
year I sang it, what I sang by SamuelBarber, Berg, Bolcom, Britton, John
Carter, Aaron Copland, Celia Storti,Foster, Richard Hundley, Charles Ives,
Marx, Menotti, oh yeah, um, Gian CarloMenotti wrote And Um, a song cycle
for Soprano, and he wrote it for, um,
(11:26):
did he write it for Beverly Sills?
I think he wrote it forElizabeth Schwarzkopf, I think.
Anyway.
I met Gian Carlo, um, because I sang atthe Spoleto Festival down in Charleston.
And, um, again, Elizabethwas on the trip with me.
And my pianist, um, and the three of us.
(11:48):
Who was who?
Kurt Pabot.
Oh, sure.
I remember Kurt.
And, um And we did a recital and soElizabeth was with us, so she just sat up
and I said, can you get her a comp ticket?
I didn't know where she wasgoing to be sitting, but she
was seated next to Gian Carlo.
And, um, Oh my gosh.
(12:08):
In the first
You're blushing.
Oh my gosh.
As I recall some of this.
Now, why is it?
that we remember the, the, thebad things, the mistakes we make.
Oh, that's what we
Don't get me started.
It's like, really?
But I did a big, it was a big recital.
I did a lot of, I want to say probablythe Wagner Wesendonck Lieder and
(12:31):
some Strauss songs, and maybe someJoseph Mark songs in the first half.
It was, it was a heavy first half,second half we were doing, we started
out with some Irish folk songs and
lighten up a little bit.
Yep.
Yep.
And, uh, we're going alongand I started singing.
Um, it was one that was had,it had like seven verses and I,
(12:56):
you mean a Bach Chorale?
Yeah, right, right.
And I, I got lost afterlike the fifth verse.
And poor Kurt, I could see his,I could still see his face of
horror as I just stopped and I,and of course, I started laughing.
I said, I said, Oh my gosh, Isaid, I looked over at Kurt and
(13:17):
he's just like, Oh, no, tell me.
And it had a realaccompaniment that was really
difficult.
Yes.
Yes.
I said, okay, here's the deal.
You all have the gist of this so far.
He's been there.
He's danced there.
He's dead.
We're going to just pick up onthe fifth verse, if that's okay.
And we just went on and finished it.
(13:38):
And he just looked at me and he said,the thought that went through my mind
was, okay, that was fine for this.
She cannot do that again inthis concert, and I didn't.
I made it through, but the first thingElizabeth said, she was about seven.
She walks in the dressing room afterand she went, Ah, what happened?
She said, and I'm sittingright next to Mr. Spoleto.
(14:00):
I said, Monati is his name.
And she said, I was just so embarrassed.
I was so embarrassed.
I said, well, honey, I said ithappens and you just pick up
and keep going, you know, but
wait a minute.
It happens?
It does.
To the top 20 sopranos of all time.
(14:21):
I'm serious.
This is something to talk about.
In fact, why don't we, why don'twe take a quick break here and come
back and talk about that and many,many other things that is the healthy
and young voice of Christine Brewer.
Along with music director Dennis Spargerof The Bach Society, I'm Ron Klem.
This is Bach Talk.
(14:46):
I want to take a moment to remindyou that we plan to spend some
time in our next episode andbeyond answering your questions.
Whether it's a question for our musicdirector and conductor Dennis Sparger
or any of The Bach Society staff, aquestion for me or for any of our previous
guests, we want to answer it for you.
And we have an easy way for you tosend us your question or comment.
(15:08):
Just go to BachSociety.org andclick on the Bach Talk page.
There you'll find a simpleform that you can use.
Or if you'd rather, shootme an email directly.
BachTalk @bachSociety.Org.
I look forward to hearing from you.
And now, back to our conversationwith internationally renowned
(15:28):
soprano Christine Brewer.
We were talking about, I believethe phrase is, train wrecks.
These happen in life andalso in your line of work.
What is the best way toApproach that type of thing.
Do you, do you just forget about it andmove on or do you embrace the moment?
(15:52):
How, how does that work?
Probably a combination of all things.
Um, I do, and I remember thisDennis, and I'm sure you do too.
When we did the Bach B minor mass,this is what the Masterworks Chorale.
Oh, okay.
And I remember one movement whenI just, I don't know if I turned
(16:15):
the page too soon, too late, didn't
Or turned two at once.
Turned two at once.
I don't know what happened.
I got lost.
And I just remember thatdeer in headlights look I was
giving you like, Oh my God.
And why do you remember that stuff?
You know, I mean, it's just.
It's like, Oh, come on,Chris, get over this.
Well, thank goodness.
I've forgotten that.
Oh, good.
Oh, well, now you've got it.
(16:36):
I must have the recording somewhere.
Oh, no.
No.
And we'll dig it up.
Oh, great.
Yes.
But yeah, it, it does happen.
And for me.
It happens if I'm doing an opera andyou've got several performances and
it usually happens about the fifthperformance and sometimes you get a
(16:56):
little bit over, you know, just kindof autopilot and all of a sudden I
remember one time doing Fidelio andI'm, you know, I'm acting my guts off,
you know, and, and I'm hearing thismusic and I'm thinking, somebody's
supposed to be singing right now.
And I'm looking at them, the conductorand I'm the you know yeah, are you going
(17:19):
to, and I'm like oh it's me, shoot!
So sometimes, and I just keep, you know,acting like I meant to do that, um,
sometimes I make up words, you know.
Watermelon,
well, no, no, no, really, really wordsthat are, and I had a French, um, coach
(17:41):
when I did Alceste at the Santa Fe Opera.
And that's one long opera.
And Alceste is only off the stagefor 15 minutes in the whole opera.
Holy smokes.
Yeah, yeah.
And, um, I had two children whowere my children in the opera.
They didn't sing, but theywere always around me.
I go to hell in the third act and,you know, and that production I
(18:04):
was lying on the floor at one pointand the devil was on top of me,
this six foot seven guy is on top.
And, um, sometimes Iwould just sort of forget.
You know, but I would sing somethingthat meant what I was supposed to say.
And so she would give me my notes.
So she'd go, I know that you, youmeant to say this, but I just want
(18:25):
to correct that this is the phrase.
But she said, you sang it in French.
What you're saying was the word, butlet's just try to get the right words.
I said, I'm shooting for that.
I'm shooting for the right words,you know, but sometimes, you know,
when I forgot the words on, on the.
little Irish song, you just have tohave a little bit of a sense of humor.
Of course.
(18:45):
You know, um, you can't quite, youcan't do that, you know, in an opera
where you've got the, everybody's,you know, doing their thing.
Um, one scary moment I had, um, It wasin Tristan and Isolde and it was with the
San Francisco Opera and we had a prompter.
(19:08):
And I don't, and when we work withprompters in rehearsal, they always
will ask you, What do you prefer?
Do you want me to say thefirst two words of your phrase?
Do you want me to, youknow, they're always.
It's a little bit ahead of the beat.
They have a little video camera so theycan see the conductor and then they've
got their stand with their music.
(19:29):
And um, I usually just say, ifI look at you, it means that I
need you to say the first word.
Um, but I don't usually, Idon't really have to use it.
You haven't depended on it.
Not too much, you know.
But we were in the middle of Tristanand Isolde and in that second act,
you know, with Tristan and Isolde,it's like, I'm the light, you're
(19:51):
the dark, and it's singing all this.
And, um, and again, it was like maybethe fourth performance, and I am
just singing my heart out, you know.
And I see, I see theprompter put his hand up.
And like, like press, like stop.
Yeah.
Stop, stop.
(20:13):
Do you think I responded to that?
I just assumed it wasthe tenor that he was.
I know.
A good assumption.
I know that's really rude.
Yeah, that's, no, that's,no, that's perfect.
But I just thought.
You know what the tenor is thinking
. Oh my gosh.
Why is he so, and then I see conductorgiving me one, uh, doing this sign.
(20:35):
So again,
just for, for our non visuallisteners, you're putting
your hand up like a patrolman.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like a patrol.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Like a traffic stop.
Right.
Yeah.
And I'm like, for God'ssakes, what's going on?
Then, when I got close to the prompter'sbox in my staging, you know, the prompter
(20:57):
pulls himself out of the box and leansover to me and goes, Stop singing!
And so I stopped and I realized then thatI was about four bars ahead of everybody.
But you know, when you're singing Wagnerand you've got, you know, big tenor
singing, but you don't hear the orchestra.
(21:17):
You can't.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so then I got back on track.
Okay.
So.
Finish the act.
All's good.
And, um, I was in my dressing roomat the end of the opera and, um.
Donald Runicles was conducting, andhe came in and he goes, Bloody hell,
Christina, what were you doing?
Do you know what that sign means?
(21:39):
I said, I know what that signmeans, but he said, You never
get, I never get the snap, snap.
If they do the snap, that meansyou're slow, you're dragging.
Sure.
I never get that sign.
Hmm.
He said, Yeah, becauseyou're usually rushing.
He said, So he said, Ifyou see this sign again.
(22:00):
It's for you.
It's like, okay.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Anyway, and it all worked out.
And I don't think that theaudience probably noticed it.
I don't think I don't know.
But you can't look back.
No.
It's done.
It's done.
And that's the thing.
I try to tell students to, um, Andespecially if I'm doing a master
class, I try to keep a little humorin and I can tell when sometimes a
(22:24):
student has something that's got ahigh note or something and they, they
kind of tense up and I said, well, youknow what, let's just, just sing it.
Just let it loose.
Just sing it.
Tell that story.
Oh, I don't know.
I'm kind of nervousabout that high A. Okay.
I said, well, what's theworst thing that could happen?
(22:44):
Well, I could crack on it.
Huh, I said, will anybody die?
Well, no, no.
I said, you know, my daughter's a nurse.
And if she would give the wrong medicineto someone, there, there's a possibility
that the patient could be injured or die.
But I said, in our profession, nobody'sgoing to die if you crack on a high note.
(23:08):
And sometimes it helps thestudent kind of loosen up.
Some of these things can just happen.
They happen.
I, I was sitting one time, I wanted to,I was in San Francisco and I wanted to
sit in on a dress rehearsal of Capriccioor something, something that I wasn't in.
I was there doing something else andI was sitting there and it was a lot
of their patrons were sitting there,allowed to come into the final dress.
(23:31):
Open rehearsal.
And there were a couplegentlemen behind me.
Not really whispering, they were talkingbefore it started and they got to talking
about Jesse Norman and I thought, Oh,no, not Jesse Norman, Leontyne Price.
Oh yeah.
And I thought, Oh gosh, Ilove Leontyne Price's voice.
They start talking about, well, I was atCarnegie Hall in 1965 when, and I thought,
(23:58):
Oh, they're gonna tell some really coolstory and she cracked on a high note.
And the next one, Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And then they start justgrousing about that.
Okay, do you think that I couldhave just minded my own business.
No.
No.
So I turned around and I said, I'msorry, you gentlemen are talking loud
(24:20):
enough that I heard what you said.
And is that all you've got to sayabout that wonderful Leontyne Price,
probably one of the best singers ever.
That is, I said, that is really shameful.
And then I turned around.
And then I could hear him going,Oh, that's Christine Brewer.
And so I thought, well, they're probablygoing to be talking about me now,
(24:40):
you know, but I just thought really?
So really, I don't think peoplereally remember those moments,
and if they do, get a hobby.
Yes.
That would be a nice way of sayingit, but yeah, if that's what you focus
on, I feel sorry for people like that.
Yes.
(26:11):
From
(26:39):
The Bach Society archives, the duetFrom Bach's Cantata 63, Christen, ätzet
diesen Tag christine Brewer, soprano,along with bass baritone David Berger.
Taken from the radio broadcast of theBach Society's Christmas Candlelight
Concert in Powell Hall back in 1990.
(27:01):
By the way.
You want to hear something funny?
Listen to the announcer.
The Bach Society of St. Louispresenting Bach's Cantata No.
63, Christians Mark You All This Day.
The soloists, soprano Christine Brewer,mezzo soprano Rhonda McPhee, tenor
William Burden, and baritone David Berger.
(27:24):
Dr. A. Dennis Sparger led theBach Society Chorus and Orchestra.
This cantata probably composedfor Christmas in 1714 when
Bach was still in Weimar.
Sounds a lot like my much younger brother.
Anyway, more withChristine in just a moment.
This is Bach Talk.
(27:45):
You were talking aboutyour work with students.
Since we're both subscribers to BBCMusic Magazine, we both have been
reading over the last few years some ofthe editorials about what's happening
with music education in England.
That apparently an incredible longrunning history of music in the schools
(28:06):
now is beginning to disintegrate.
And, of course, we see some of thishappening here, um, yet you still are able
to find very fine young students in yourwork, especially at Webster University.
Um, do you have some comments tomake about what's happening with
our music programs in this country?
I, it's very sad.
(28:26):
I mean, I only taught one year.
I taught K through 12music down in Marissa.
There were three schools, two elementaryschools, and then the high school.
And, um, and then I did aprogram called Opera Tunities,
the students named it that.
Well after I had taught there, theirsixth grade teacher invited me to come.
(28:47):
Well, she actually invited me,
she said, we're doing some geography, andI wanted to just, she said, I read your
travelogues that you send, you know, andI thought this might be fun for the kids.
Where in the world is Miss Brewer?
And I was gonna put a map up and I said,well, could I come and talk to the kids?
And this developed into abouta 15 year thing, you know, um,
(29:09):
and it wasn't a music class.
She was a sixth grade teacher,but those kids got to come to
rehearsals at the symphony, youknow, whatever I was singing, that's
what we would discuss, you know?
Um, but it is, it is a shame.
I know some of the school systems,I don't know if their budget,
they can't afford to have music.
(29:30):
I don't know.
Um, a lot of schools will sort ofhave a little tiny music department
or, uh, and then some schools.
My, my grandson Oscar is in theAfton schools and they have band and
orchestra and choir and you know.
Wonderful.
So that's good.
But I don't know.
(29:50):
I don't know how to address it I Ithink a lot of people don't think that
it's important, but those of us whoknow Music know that if you study an
instrument and study and learn to readmusic It will help your reading skills.
It will help your math skills.
Yeah.
And, and a lot of those reports havebeen available for 35, 40, 45 years.
(30:11):
It's out there.
Yes.
The information is there.
Yes.
And, and still the people who makethese decisions in schools don't see
that their students can benefit somuch from having a musical background.
Yeah.
I, I, I will tell you one little story.
That happened with theOpera Tunities group.
(30:31):
And as we grew, I started bringing acouple members from the St. Louis Symphony
to play and talk to the kids abouttheir, you know, growing up in music
and David Robertson became involved.
Um.
And he allowed the kids tocome to one closed rehearsal.
And when we did, um, the War Requiemby Benjamin Britten, I thought, Oh
(30:57):
man, I hope the kids will get this.
So I had recorded it in London andI gave a recording to my friend,
Nancy Wagner, who was a sixth gradeteacher, and she said she would just
play one movement a day when thekids were in the classroom just so
they kind of got used to the music.
And the sound of it.
Yeah.
And I would always before, youknow, before I did Fidelio with
the symphony or before I did, youknow, War Requiem, I would go to
(31:20):
the school a couple days before theywere going to come to the rehearsal.
And just, if you have questions.
Ask me now when you go to the rehearsal.
It's not like a performance.
They may start at the end.
They may start here.
You can't applaud, you know, it's just arehearsal So anyway, so I get there and
she had all and it wasn't a big class.
(31:40):
There were two sixth gradeclasses, maybe 50 kids.
We're in a big circle and Theyhave their little questions.
And this one boy, I will neverforget this, he raised his hand and
he said, you know that one part ofthe War Requiem, where, um, Abraham
and Isaac, do you know that part?
I said, yeah.
(32:01):
Well, you know that's not thereal story that's in the Bible.
I said, yes, I do know that.
I do know that.
I said, why, why do you think thatthe poet decided to write it that way?
Now, I'm, the whole time, I'mwatching Nancy, you know, she's
just standing behind these kids, andthis boy says, well, we were talking
about it at lunch the other day.
(32:22):
Great!
And I'm like, oh, okay.
And then he said, now these are 12year old kids, and I asked him why
he thought Wilford Owen Who wrotethe text had changed that story.
He said, well, we were talkingabout it at lunch the other day.
And here's what we thought.
We thought that Abraham was supposedto represent the old men who start
(32:46):
the wars and Isaac represented theyoung men who were killed in wars.
And I thought these kids get thisand at that time, there were a
lot of these kids whose siblings.
We're in, um, fighting in Afghanistanand, you know, and I always gave
them my email address and, um,and one girl wrote me an email one
(33:10):
night, and she said, I can't sleep.
My brother's, you know, he's fightingin a war and I don't know what to do.
And I wrote her back on the email andI said, do you have his email address?
Because you're such a good writer.
I bet he'd love to just hear from you,you know, and those kinds of things
happen when kids are involved in music.
(33:31):
If we say, oh, well that, oh, we're notgoing to take that kid to see the War
Requiem when they won't understand it.
They won't understand.
You know?
And I think sometimes weunderestimate what the kids are
available, you know, able to do.
You did an interview with somebody andI don't remember the context, but you
said something that we will often saywhen it comes to great music and why
(33:56):
it's important to go, just as you said,to go to hear a piece, whether you think
you are in love with that particularcomposer or that piece or whatever.
Someone will be hearing this piecefor the very first time, right?
And, and so we get it, of course, that'swhy it's so important to do what we do.
But then you added this and someone,
(34:20):
and someone may be hearingit for the last time.
Yeah, yeah.
Does your perspective changeas you as we get older?
I don't know.
I'm sorry.
Thanks, Ron.
I didn't know I was gonna cry on this.
Actually, I first heard that.
(34:42):
Um, when I sang.
Uh, with Robert Shaw, he saidthat to me before we walked on
stage and he said it to the othersoloists and it just stuck with me.
And I try to think about that every time,whether it's, Oh, I'll tell you another
(35:02):
Four Last Songs or it's another, whatever.
You can't phone it in.
No, no, no, no, no.
And, and I say this to students too.
I, I, I've, I'm such a nerd.
Um, I've, I've kept track of every timeI've sung Strauss' Four Last Songs in the
front cover of my score and I've passeda hundred performancesa couple years ago.
(35:28):
And I did my last ones I did wereup at the with the Elgin Symphony
for their 75th anniversary.
It was a couple years ago.
And, um, and I say this to students,I said, you know, sometimes
we sing pieces that we love.
And, um, but you don't ever wantto just let it become automatic
or Oh, yeah, I know how this goes.
(35:50):
Because your life changes every day.
And Your life experience informshow you're going to tell the story
and I still remember I wantedto sing the four last songs.
The first time I heard him was at St.
Louis Symphony with Heather Harper.
Oh sure, and I just was blownaway It was so beautiful.
(36:11):
And so I went to my next voice lessonI was about 18 and I had bought a
score and I brought it in to Mr.Freiner And, and I will never forget,
he looked at the score and he said,yes, these are beautiful, beautiful
songs and you will sing these someday.
He said, but you're notready to sing them now.
(36:31):
I would suggest for the next20 years, you study the poems
and, and then perform them.
And I almost, it was not quite 20 years.
Cause I was about 18 when I was 30.
However many years that would have been,I did sing them first time in Bournemouth.
And he was so right because my, mywhole view of those songs changed over
(36:57):
my life and they're different now thanthey were when I was 30, you know?
And so that's the excitingthing about making music.
You bring your life experienceeach time you sing it.
So it's not like I want to make sure Ising that high G like I sang it last time.
You know, that's boring.
That's boring.
But make it Fit what yourlife expresses now, you know?
(37:21):
You're doing what you were called to do.
What is your thought about calling?
Whether it's being a broadcasteror nowadays a podcaster.
Right, right.
Or what, what, why is calling important?
Or what's your, what's yoursense of what that means?
(37:42):
Well, as my mom would say, You wereborn with this talent, whatever
you want to call it, gift, buthow you use it is so important.
And, um, I guess I feel responsible.
Do you know, I feel
To whom?
(38:03):
To me, to an audience, to God?
To all of the above.
Yeah.
So that I'm not just casually, you know,Oh yeah, I got another gig on this.
It's no big deal.
Do you know, every, I try to get toa point where everything is really
meaningful and special for me.
(38:24):
And for me, I usually, if, if I'mplanning like a recital or something,
I really go through the texts.
I'm most, um, drawn to thepoems that I really like.
And then, then it's like, oh,how did Schubert set that?
Oh, how did Joseph Marx set that?
You know?
And does it fit me?
Does it?
And there are some things thatfit and some things that don't.
(38:46):
And You know, um, I was offered a lotof things early on in my career, which
I just didn't feel like it would work,you know, and, um, And I guess I've
said this thing about, you know, thisis my mom's, you know, this is your gift
and you have to use it a certain way.
I heard Oscar, my grandson, whenhe was about seven, tell somebody,
(39:10):
he said, you know, I think Godblessed me to be an athlete to
be a first baseman and a slugger.
I mean, he's telling us, andhe said, but you know what?
It's on me to be, to practiceand to make it work or whatever.
I mean, and Ross said, he's justheard you say this a lot when you
(39:32):
lecture your students or whatever.
But you know what?
I think we all do have certain giftsthat we're given and I don't know, I
think it's important to find those gifts.
I think one of my gifts isalso, I like to communicate.
Well, I can communicate throughsinging, but I can also communicate
(39:53):
with people, chatting with them,talking, you know, um, I helped
start a community dinner in our town.
We're on our third year.
We thought we would just get like,you know, we'll do it for the summer.
You know, we had like25 people the first one.
We're serving like a hundredpeople and, and we have different
themes and people are like, no,wait, when is the taco night?
(40:15):
Okay.
What night is the, you know, whatever.
So I mean, I think we have to findgifts and, and, and then live them.
I really do.
And we can bring people together somuch through our musical performances.
Yes!
Yes!
That, uh, they're allresponding to the same stimulus.
(40:37):
Yeah.
Even though they comefrom different places.
Well, and have you found too.
And they're drawn togethercloser as a community.
Have you found when people have hearda performance you've done and they'll
say something that they thought wasso amazingly spectacular and it was,
and then you think, wow, and maybe youdidn't feel that same way, you know.
(40:59):
I love that because each personis experiencing it with their life
experience, you know, and yeah,it's, it's really, I love it.
I love it.
Well, I wish we could have.
Gotten you out of your shelljust a little bit more.
Thank you.you soank you much for justopening up and just chatting with us.
(41:24):
Thank you.
This is fun.
Do I have to stop the tape?
Because we're going to talk for hours.
I know.
And you made me feel
I said tape.
Can you believe how old I am?
Well, I know.
And I knew what you meant.
But, but just, you both madethis very easy and relaxed.
And that's Thank you for that.
That's one of the top 20 soprano.
(41:48):
Yes.
Okay, never mind.
I'm off on that now.
Oh, whatever.
That's my friend Christine Brewer,and along with Bach Society music
director and conductor Dennis Sparger,I'm Ron Klemm and this is Bach Talk.
(42:56):
From a Christmas CandlelightConcert at Powell Hall in 2017, Mack
Wilberg's arrangement of Oh HolyNight, Dennis Sparger leading The
Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra,the soprano Christine Brewer.
You can download that and allthe other tracks from The Bach
Society's album Joy to the World.
(43:16):
Go to BachSociety.org andclick on watch and listen.
Remember now, we want to answeryour questions for me, for Maestro
Sparger, for any of our past guests.
Take a moment, right now,contact us with your questions.
Go to BachSociety.org, click on Bach Talk.
There's a simple form that youcan use to ask your question.
(43:38):
Or if you prefer, send me an emaildirectly, BachTalk@BachSociety.org.
The associate producer ofBachTalk is Scott MacDonald.
Special thanks, of course, toChristine Brewer and Dennis Sparger,
(44:00):
The Bach Society's recording engineerfor our performance excerpts.
is Paul Henrick.
Additional assistance provided byAndie Murphy and Charissa Marcinia.
Bach Talk is a registered trademarkof The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
I'm Ron Klemm.
This is Bach Talk.
Soprano Christine Brewer began her careersinging in the choruses of the St. Louis
(00:22):
Symphony and Opera Theatre of St. Louis.
After winning the Metropolitan Operaauditions and the Richard Tucker Award
in 1989, Brewer performed with the topsymphonies and operas around the world.
Oh, by the way, I didn't write this.
As a matter of fact, I'm reading from thesidewalk, from a plaque that lies embedded
(00:45):
on Delmar Boulevard, right alongsidea star on the St. Louis Walk of Fame.
And on that star, the name ChristineBrewer is blazoned in gold.
It's an honor bestowed on only afew of the most influential, most
significant, preeminent St. Louisans,who have made a national impact
(01:08):
on our culture and our history.
Artists, performers, sports figures,entertainers, our region's most
recognizable figures, past andpresent, are permanently celebrated
on the St. Louis Walk of Fame.
But I digress.
Let me skip to the bottom.
(01:28):
A meticulous, yet down to earthartist, blessed with a golden voice,
Christine Brewer was named one of thegreatest sopranos of all time by BBC
Music Magazine in 2007, end of quote.
Hello
(02:02):
and welcome to Bach Talk, I'm Ron Klemm.
One of my greatest joys in life,I have to admit, is to know and
have friendships and conversations.
With some truly remarkable people.
And recently I had a chance tosit down with two such friends.
Bach Society Music Director andConductor Dennis Sparger invited
(02:23):
soprano Christine Brewer and me overto his Belleville, Illinois home.
We had a cup of coffee anda wonderful extended chat.
We talked about music and singing,of course, and about Christine's
amazing international career,including her many appearances with
The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
But we also talked about family, aboutrelationships, and about life itself.
(02:50):
I hope you've had a chance to hearour previous episode of Bach Talk,
when Christine shared thoughtsabout her musical beginnings, her
small town upbringing, her manytravels, and a bevy of other topics.
We want to pick up today where weleft off last time, and it will
become clear almost immediately thatChristine owes a lot of her concert
(03:12):
career to Maestro Sparger himself.
So many of these places you werespending a lot of time, especially
in preparing for an opera.
In the concert work, you were probablythere for a much shorter period
of time and didn't get to spend asmuch time with conductors and that.
Have you still built up a lotof long lasting relationships?
(03:33):
Yes, yes.
That's, that's good to bring that up tooabout the concert repertoire because, and
you were a big part of that, Dennis, when,um, I was sort of trying to start out and
figure out what, what I was going to do.
I remember I called you and said,can I come and audition for you?
Um, and you very kindly.
(03:53):
I probably said, no.
Who are you?
You wouldn't be here today if he said no.
And so you took a chance on me andhired me to start doing concert work.
Oh, I had to.
What do you mean you had to?
Well, at that time I was conductingthe Masterworks Chorale and had
(04:15):
a wonderful tenor, Tom Sturgis.
And his wife buttonholed me and shesaid, there's this young lady who sung
at our church and she's just terrific andDennis, you've got to hear her or else.
So you came over
That's good.
to my house.
I was living on the east endof Belleville at that time and
you brought along Elizabeth.
(04:36):
She sat underneath the piano whileI accompanied and you sang for me
and I said, okay, let's do this.
And, um, and you sang with usthat following fall and you did a
Bach cantata and was the soloistin the Brahms German Requiem.
And that started it all.
And uh, when I finally moved on to takethe position with The Bach Society,
(05:00):
you had already sung five timeswith The Bach Society with two of my
predecessors, but, uh, but you sang inmy first concert with, with The Bach
Society, uh, doing a Bach's cantata51, which was a big work for soprano.
It's a tour de force for a soprano.
It is.
I loved it.
(05:21):
Oh my gosh.
But that's the kind of stuff, and Iwould often, and I still, when I hear
a young singer who is probably going tohave a big voice, I tell them, if you
can get into doing concert repertoireand learn concert repertoire, this is a
way you can, you know, keep your voicehealthy as you're preparing your Strauss
(05:44):
or whatever, and you can earn a living.
And I said, that for me was huge.
And I've kept the concert repertoire upall through my career and because first
of all, because I love it, but it alsois a way to keep your voice and I'll
quote Birgit Nilsson because she was abig mentor for me, healthy and youthful.
(06:07):
Those were her two favorite words.
And every time she heard me singor she would write me a note about
something she heard on BBC, well, yourvoice sounds healthy and youthful.
This is good.
But she said for her one of thereasons she thinks her voice was,
you know stayed so strong was becausewhen she was performing She said
(06:31):
we didn't have this you could singin Berlin one night the next night.
You're gonna be in LosAngeles or New York.
She said I took the train to the nextand I would study my music quietly and
I didn't, you know, so she said try notto have your managers book you so many
back to back things or put in a concertthing before you do another opera.
(06:52):
And I really did.
I mean, I'd say probably 80 or 90percent of the time was able to do that.
There were some times I thought,Oh, I can't get rid of this.
I got to do this, you know,but um, but she was so right.
So because you took a chance on me andwe started doing concerts, it was like,
I love this repertoire, you know, and Ithink that's what kept my voice healthy.
(07:18):
Oh, that's terrific.
Yeah.
Wow.
I think.
But having been around the world,there's so many different places.
Are there some favorite hallsthat you love to sing in?
One of them is Wigmore Hall.
Oh, sure.
And it's in London.
Well, you've recorded there, too.
I have.
I have.
And I, I had my London manager, PeterBloor, who was, he was not just an agent.
(07:41):
He was a manager.
He would really, we would sitdown and he would say, okay, where
do you want to be in five years?
And how do we want to get there?
And as I knew that the Wagner was startingto come, and I started working on it.
With Miss Nilsson, in my early30s, I would say, 32, 33.
(08:02):
And, um, and she said too, shesaid, the Wagner will come,
the Strauss will probablycome before that.
So I sang a lot of Ariadne's, youknow, but she said, um, just, just
take your time with the Wagner and,and, you know, let your voice develop.
So I remember sitting down with Peterand I said, I would love to sing Isolde.
(08:22):
Um, Here's how I'd love to do it.
And at this point, I had been workingwith Donald Runnicles on, we had done,
um, excerpts from The Ring, from Valkyrie.
We did, um, some concertswith the BBC Symphony.
And, um, And I, in Berlin, I did thesecond act of Tristan and Isolde.
(08:46):
That was, you know, so Ihad a little taste of it.
But I said, I'd love to do the wholeopera, but if it's possible to do it in
concert the first time and to do it withDonald Runnicles, that would be great.
And
That's all.
They figured it out.
They did.
They did it, wow.
And Donald said, why don't we do threeconcerts and one night we'll do act one.
(09:09):
And the first halfwe'll do something else.
And then we'll do, next nightwe'll do act two, then act three.
And, um, and I was 40 when I did my firstIsolde and it was broadcast on BBC radio
and, um, someone from Warner Records,Was listening, I guess it was, I don't
(09:31):
know, maybe it was the second act night.
And he, he called my manager the nextday, he said, I was driving home from
somewhere, and he said, I had to sitin the car to hear who the soprano was.
And he said, um, we'd liketo have her record this.
And so they ended up, Warner,well then I had another offer too,
(09:53):
to sing it with Placido Domingo.
And, um, it conflicted when they weregoing to do the recordings that conflicted
with something else I was doing.
And I said, I, I never wanted tojust, you know, break a contract.
I just didn't do it.
Well, that's part of your upbringing.
I know, it is, it is.
So, um, my manager said, well,okay, you missed that opportunity,
(10:18):
but Warner records is goingto buy the recording from BBC.
So they, they released it.
So.
We've got it at least, you know,recorded, but, um, but I think having,
oh, but anyway, so, um, the WigmoreHall, how did I get off on that one, Ron?
I know, I know.
I'm sorry.
It's a good thing I could edit.
(10:39):
Yeah, really.
I told you I was going to be long winded.
Um, but Peter Bloor would make alist so that whenever I sang, and I
sang at Wigmore Hall several times.
Um, Several times.
And he made a list by composer, and weput what I sang by Harold Arlen, what
(11:01):
year I sang it, what I sang by SamuelBarber, Berg, Bolcom, Britton, John
Carter, Aaron Copland, Celia Storti,Foster, Richard Hundley, Charles Ives,
Marx, Menotti, oh yeah, um, Gian CarloMenotti wrote And Um, a song cycle
for Soprano, and he wrote it for, um,
(11:26):
did he write it for Beverly Sills?
I think he wrote it forElizabeth Schwarzkopf, I think.
Anyway.
I met Gian Carlo, um, because I sang atthe Spoleto Festival down in Charleston.
And, um, again, Elizabethwas on the trip with me.
And my pianist, um, and the three of us.
(11:48):
Who was who?
Kurt Pabot.
Oh, sure.
I remember Kurt.
And, um And we did a recital and soElizabeth was with us, so she just sat up
and I said, can you get her a comp ticket?
I didn't know where she wasgoing to be sitting, but she
was seated next to Gian Carlo.
And, um, Oh my gosh.
(12:08):
In the first
You're blushing.
Oh my gosh.
As I recall some of this.
Now, why is it?
that we remember the, the, thebad things, the mistakes we make.
Oh, that's what we
Don't get me started.
It's like, really?
But I did a big, it was a big recital.
I did a lot of, I want to say probablythe Wagner Wesendonck Lieder and
(12:31):
some Strauss songs, and maybe someJoseph Mark songs in the first half.
It was, it was a heavy first half,second half we were doing, we started
out with some Irish folk songs and
lighten up a little bit.
Yep.
Yep.
And, uh, we're going alongand I started singing.
Um, it was one that was had,it had like seven verses and I,
(12:56):
you mean a Bach Chorale?
Yeah, right, right.
And I, I got lost afterlike the fifth verse.
And poor Kurt, I could see his,I could still see his face of
horror as I just stopped and I,and of course, I started laughing.
I said, I said, Oh my gosh, Isaid, I looked over at Kurt and
(13:17):
he's just like, Oh, no, tell me.
And it had a realaccompaniment that was really
difficult.
Yes.
Yes.
I said, okay, here's the deal.
You all have the gist of this so far.
He's been there.
He's danced there.
He's dead.
We're going to just pick up onthe fifth verse, if that's okay.
And we just went on and finished it.
(13:38):
And he just looked at me and he said,the thought that went through my mind
was, okay, that was fine for this.
She cannot do that again inthis concert, and I didn't.
I made it through, but the first thingElizabeth said, she was about seven.
She walks in the dressing room afterand she went, Ah, what happened?
She said, and I'm sittingright next to Mr. Spoleto.
(14:00):
I said, Monati is his name.
And she said, I was just so embarrassed.
I was so embarrassed.
I said, well, honey, I said ithappens and you just pick up
and keep going, you know, but
wait a minute.
It happens?
It does.
To the top 20 sopranos of all time.
(14:21):
I'm serious.
This is something to talk about.
In fact, why don't we, why don'twe take a quick break here and come
back and talk about that and many,many other things that is the healthy
and young voice of Christine Brewer.
Along with music director Dennis Spargerof The Bach Society, I'm Ron Klem.
This is Bach Talk.
(14:46):
I want to take a moment to remindyou that we plan to spend some
time in our next episode andbeyond answering your questions.
Whether it's a question for our musicdirector and conductor Dennis Sparger
or any of The Bach Society staff, aquestion for me or for any of our previous
guests, we want to answer it for you.
And we have an easy way for you tosend us your question or comment.
(15:08):
Just go to BachSociety.org andclick on the Bach Talk page.
There you'll find a simpleform that you can use.
Or if you'd rather, shootme an email directly.
BachTalk @bachSociety.Org.
I look forward to hearing from you.
And now, back to our conversationwith internationally renowned
(15:28):
soprano Christine Brewer.
We were talking about, I believethe phrase is, train wrecks.
These happen in life andalso in your line of work.
What is the best way toApproach that type of thing.
Do you, do you just forget about it andmove on or do you embrace the moment?
(15:52):
How, how does that work?
Probably a combination of all things.
Um, I do, and I remember thisDennis, and I'm sure you do too.
When we did the Bach B minor mass,this is what the Masterworks Chorale.
Oh, okay.
And I remember one movement whenI just, I don't know if I turned
(16:15):
the page too soon, too late, didn't
Or turned two at once.
Turned two at once.
I don't know what happened.
I got lost.
And I just remember thatdeer in headlights look I was
giving you like, Oh my God.
And why do you remember that stuff?
You know, I mean, it's just.
It's like, Oh, come on,Chris, get over this.
Well, thank goodness.
I've forgotten that.
Oh, good.
Oh, well, now you've got it.
(16:36):
I must have the recording somewhere.
Oh, no.
No.
And we'll dig it up.
Oh, great.
Yes.
But yeah, it, it does happen.
And for me.
It happens if I'm doing an opera andyou've got several performances and
it usually happens about the fifthperformance and sometimes you get a
(16:56):
little bit over, you know, just kindof autopilot and all of a sudden I
remember one time doing Fidelio andI'm, you know, I'm acting my guts off,
you know, and, and I'm hearing thismusic and I'm thinking, somebody's
supposed to be singing right now.
And I'm looking at them, the conductorand I'm the you know yeah, are you going
(17:19):
to, and I'm like oh it's me, shoot!
So sometimes, and I just keep, you know,acting like I meant to do that, um,
sometimes I make up words, you know.
Watermelon,
well, no, no, no, really, really wordsthat are, and I had a French, um, coach
(17:41):
when I did Alceste at the Santa Fe Opera.
And that's one long opera.
And Alceste is only off the stagefor 15 minutes in the whole opera.
Holy smokes.
Yeah, yeah.
And, um, I had two children whowere my children in the opera.
They didn't sing, but theywere always around me.
I go to hell in the third act and,you know, and that production I
(18:04):
was lying on the floor at one pointand the devil was on top of me,
this six foot seven guy is on top.
And, um, sometimes Iwould just sort of forget.
You know, but I would sing somethingthat meant what I was supposed to say.
And so she would give me my notes.
So she'd go, I know that you, youmeant to say this, but I just want
(18:25):
to correct that this is the phrase.
But she said, you sang it in French.
What you're saying was the word, butlet's just try to get the right words.
I said, I'm shooting for that.
I'm shooting for the right words,you know, but sometimes, you know,
when I forgot the words on, on the.
little Irish song, you just have tohave a little bit of a sense of humor.
Of course.
(18:45):
You know, um, you can't quite, youcan't do that, you know, in an opera
where you've got the, everybody's,you know, doing their thing.
Um, one scary moment I had, um, It wasin Tristan and Isolde and it was with the
San Francisco Opera and we had a prompter.
(19:08):
And I don't, and when we work withprompters in rehearsal, they always
will ask you, What do you prefer?
Do you want me to say thefirst two words of your phrase?
Do you want me to, youknow, they're always.
It's a little bit ahead of the beat.
They have a little video camera so theycan see the conductor and then they've
got their stand with their music.
(19:29):
And um, I usually just say, ifI look at you, it means that I
need you to say the first word.
Um, but I don't usually, Idon't really have to use it.
You haven't depended on it.
Not too much, you know.
But we were in the middle of Tristanand Isolde and in that second act,
you know, with Tristan and Isolde,it's like, I'm the light, you're
(19:51):
the dark, and it's singing all this.
And, um, and again, it was like maybethe fourth performance, and I am
just singing my heart out, you know.
And I see, I see theprompter put his hand up.
And like, like press, like stop.
Yeah.
Stop, stop.
(20:13):
Do you think I responded to that?
I just assumed it wasthe tenor that he was.
I know.
A good assumption.
I know that's really rude.
Yeah, that's, no, that's,no, that's perfect.
But I just thought.
You know what the tenor is thinking
. Oh my gosh.
Why is he so, and then I see conductorgiving me one, uh, doing this sign.
(20:35):
So again,
just for, for our non visuallisteners, you're putting
your hand up like a patrolman.
Yeah.
Yes.
Like a patrol.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Like a traffic stop.
Right.
Yeah.
And I'm like, for God'ssakes, what's going on?
Then, when I got close to the prompter'sbox in my staging, you know, the prompter
(20:57):
pulls himself out of the box and leansover to me and goes, Stop singing!
And so I stopped and I realized then thatI was about four bars ahead of everybody.
But you know, when you're singing Wagnerand you've got, you know, big tenor
singing, but you don't hear the orchestra.
(21:17):
You can't.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so then I got back on track.
Okay.
So.
Finish the act.
All's good.
And, um, I was in my dressing roomat the end of the opera and, um.
Donald Runicles was conducting, andhe came in and he goes, Bloody hell,
Christina, what were you doing?
Do you know what that sign means?
(21:39):
I said, I know what that signmeans, but he said, You never
get, I never get the snap, snap.
If they do the snap, that meansyou're slow, you're dragging.
Sure.
I never get that sign.
Hmm.
He said, Yeah, becauseyou're usually rushing.
He said, So he said, Ifyou see this sign again.
(22:00):
It's for you.
It's like, okay.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Anyway, and it all worked out.
And I don't think that theaudience probably noticed it.
I don't think I don't know.
But you can't look back.
No.
It's done.
It's done.
And that's the thing.
I try to tell students to, um, Andespecially if I'm doing a master
class, I try to keep a little humorin and I can tell when sometimes a
(22:24):
student has something that's got ahigh note or something and they, they
kind of tense up and I said, well, youknow what, let's just, just sing it.
Just let it loose.
Just sing it.
Tell that story.
Oh, I don't know.
I'm kind of nervousabout that high A. Okay.
I said, well, what's theworst thing that could happen?
(22:44):
Well, I could crack on it.
Huh, I said, will anybody die?
Well, no, no.
I said, you know, my daughter's a nurse.
And if she would give the wrong medicineto someone, there, there's a possibility
that the patient could be injured or die.
But I said, in our profession, nobody'sgoing to die if you crack on a high note.
(23:08):
And sometimes it helps thestudent kind of loosen up.
Some of these things can just happen.
They happen.
I, I was sitting one time, I wanted to,I was in San Francisco and I wanted to
sit in on a dress rehearsal of Capriccioor something, something that I wasn't in.
I was there doing something else andI was sitting there and it was a lot
of their patrons were sitting there,allowed to come into the final dress.
(23:31):
Open rehearsal.
And there were a couplegentlemen behind me.
Not really whispering, they were talkingbefore it started and they got to talking
about Jesse Norman and I thought, Oh,no, not Jesse Norman, Leontyne Price.
Oh yeah.
And I thought, Oh gosh, Ilove Leontyne Price's voice.
They start talking about, well, I was atCarnegie Hall in 1965 when, and I thought,
(23:58):
Oh, they're gonna tell some really coolstory and she cracked on a high note.
And the next one, Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And then they start justgrousing about that.
Okay, do you think that I couldhave just minded my own business.
No.
No.
So I turned around and I said, I'msorry, you gentlemen are talking loud
(24:20):
enough that I heard what you said.
And is that all you've got to sayabout that wonderful Leontyne Price,
probably one of the best singers ever.
That is, I said, that is really shameful.
And then I turned around.
And then I could hear him going,Oh, that's Christine Brewer.
And so I thought, well, they're probablygoing to be talking about me now,
(24:40):
you know, but I just thought really?
So really, I don't think peoplereally remember those moments,
and if they do, get a hobby.
Yes.
That would be a nice way of sayingit, but yeah, if that's what you focus
on, I feel sorry for people like that.
Yes.
(26:11):
From
(26:39):
The Bach Society archives, the duetFrom Bach's Cantata 63, Christen, ätzet
diesen Tag christine Brewer, soprano,along with bass baritone David Berger.
Taken from the radio broadcast of theBach Society's Christmas Candlelight
Concert in Powell Hall back in 1990.
(27:01):
By the way.
You want to hear something funny?
Listen to the announcer.
The Bach Society of St. Louispresenting Bach's Cantata No.
63, Christians Mark You All This Day.
The soloists, soprano Christine Brewer,mezzo soprano Rhonda McPhee, tenor
William Burden, and baritone David Berger.
(27:24):
Dr. A. Dennis Sparger led theBach Society Chorus and Orchestra.
This cantata probably composedfor Christmas in 1714 when
Bach was still in Weimar.
Sounds a lot like my much younger brother.
Anyway, more withChristine in just a moment.
This is Bach Talk.
(27:45):
You were talking aboutyour work with students.
Since we're both subscribers to BBCMusic Magazine, we both have been
reading over the last few years some ofthe editorials about what's happening
with music education in England.
That apparently an incredible longrunning history of music in the schools
(28:06):
now is beginning to disintegrate.
And, of course, we see some of thishappening here, um, yet you still are able
to find very fine young students in yourwork, especially at Webster University.
Um, do you have some comments tomake about what's happening with
our music programs in this country?
I, it's very sad.
(28:26):
I mean, I only taught one year.
I taught K through 12music down in Marissa.
There were three schools, two elementaryschools, and then the high school.
And, um, and then I did aprogram called Opera Tunities,
the students named it that.
Well after I had taught there, theirsixth grade teacher invited me to come.
(28:47):
Well, she actually invited me,
she said, we're doing some geography, andI wanted to just, she said, I read your
travelogues that you send, you know, andI thought this might be fun for the kids.
Where in the world is Miss Brewer?
And I was gonna put a map up and I said,well, could I come and talk to the kids?
And this developed into abouta 15 year thing, you know, um,
(29:09):
and it wasn't a music class.
She was a sixth grade teacher,but those kids got to come to
rehearsals at the symphony, youknow, whatever I was singing, that's
what we would discuss, you know?
Um, but it is, it is a shame.
I know some of the school systems,I don't know if their budget,
they can't afford to have music.
(29:30):
I don't know.
Um, a lot of schools will sort ofhave a little tiny music department
or, uh, and then some schools.
My, my grandson Oscar is in theAfton schools and they have band and
orchestra and choir and you know.
Wonderful.
So that's good.
But I don't know.
(29:50):
I don't know how to address it I Ithink a lot of people don't think that
it's important, but those of us whoknow Music know that if you study an
instrument and study and learn to readmusic It will help your reading skills.
It will help your math skills.
Yeah.
And, and a lot of those reports havebeen available for 35, 40, 45 years.
(30:11):
It's out there.
Yes.
The information is there.
Yes.
And, and still the people who makethese decisions in schools don't see
that their students can benefit somuch from having a musical background.
Yeah.
I, I, I will tell you one little story.
That happened with theOpera Tunities group.
(30:31):
And as we grew, I started bringing acouple members from the St. Louis Symphony
to play and talk to the kids abouttheir, you know, growing up in music
and David Robertson became involved.
Um.
And he allowed the kids tocome to one closed rehearsal.
And when we did, um, the War Requiemby Benjamin Britten, I thought, Oh
(30:57):
man, I hope the kids will get this.
So I had recorded it in London andI gave a recording to my friend,
Nancy Wagner, who was a sixth gradeteacher, and she said she would just
play one movement a day when thekids were in the classroom just so
they kind of got used to the music.
And the sound of it.
Yeah.
And I would always before, youknow, before I did Fidelio with
the symphony or before I did, youknow, War Requiem, I would go to
(31:20):
the school a couple days before theywere going to come to the rehearsal.
And just, if you have questions.
Ask me now when you go to the rehearsal.
It's not like a performance.
They may start at the end.
They may start here.
You can't applaud, you know, it's just arehearsal So anyway, so I get there and
she had all and it wasn't a big class.
(31:40):
There were two sixth gradeclasses, maybe 50 kids.
We're in a big circle and Theyhave their little questions.
And this one boy, I will neverforget this, he raised his hand and
he said, you know that one part ofthe War Requiem, where, um, Abraham
and Isaac, do you know that part?
I said, yeah.
(32:01):
Well, you know that's not thereal story that's in the Bible.
I said, yes, I do know that.
I do know that.
I said, why, why do you think thatthe poet decided to write it that way?
Now, I'm, the whole time, I'mwatching Nancy, you know, she's
just standing behind these kids, andthis boy says, well, we were talking
about it at lunch the other day.
(32:22):
Great!
And I'm like, oh, okay.
And then he said, now these are 12year old kids, and I asked him why
he thought Wilford Owen Who wrotethe text had changed that story.
He said, well, we were talkingabout it at lunch the other day.
And here's what we thought.
We thought that Abraham was supposedto represent the old men who start
(32:46):
the wars and Isaac represented theyoung men who were killed in wars.
And I thought these kids get thisand at that time, there were a
lot of these kids whose siblings.
We're in, um, fighting in Afghanistanand, you know, and I always gave
them my email address and, um,and one girl wrote me an email one
(33:10):
night, and she said, I can't sleep.
My brother's, you know, he's fightingin a war and I don't know what to do.
And I wrote her back on the email andI said, do you have his email address?
Because you're such a good writer.
I bet he'd love to just hear from you,you know, and those kinds of things
happen when kids are involved in music.
(33:31):
If we say, oh, well that, oh, we're notgoing to take that kid to see the War
Requiem when they won't understand it.
They won't understand.
You know?
And I think sometimes weunderestimate what the kids are
available, you know, able to do.
You did an interview with somebody andI don't remember the context, but you
said something that we will often saywhen it comes to great music and why
(33:56):
it's important to go, just as you said,to go to hear a piece, whether you think
you are in love with that particularcomposer or that piece or whatever.
Someone will be hearing this piecefor the very first time, right?
And, and so we get it, of course, that'swhy it's so important to do what we do.
But then you added this and someone,
(34:20):
and someone may be hearingit for the last time.
Yeah, yeah.
Does your perspective changeas you as we get older?
I don't know.
I'm sorry.
Thanks, Ron.
I didn't know I was gonna cry on this.
Actually, I first heard that.
(34:42):
Um, when I sang.
Uh, with Robert Shaw, he saidthat to me before we walked on
stage and he said it to the othersoloists and it just stuck with me.
And I try to think about that every time,whether it's, Oh, I'll tell you another
(35:02):
Four Last Songs or it's another, whatever.
You can't phone it in.
No, no, no, no, no.
And, and I say this to students too.
I, I, I've, I'm such a nerd.
Um, I've, I've kept track of every timeI've sung Strauss' Four Last Songs in the
front cover of my score and I've passeda hundred performancesa couple years ago.
(35:28):
And I did my last ones I did wereup at the with the Elgin Symphony
for their 75th anniversary.
It was a couple years ago.
And, um, and I say this to students,I said, you know, sometimes
we sing pieces that we love.
And, um, but you don't ever wantto just let it become automatic
or Oh, yeah, I know how this goes.
(35:50):
Because your life changes every day.
And Your life experience informshow you're going to tell the story
and I still remember I wantedto sing the four last songs.
The first time I heard him was at St.
Louis Symphony with Heather Harper.
Oh sure, and I just was blownaway It was so beautiful.
(36:11):
And so I went to my next voice lessonI was about 18 and I had bought a
score and I brought it in to Mr.Freiner And, and I will never forget,
he looked at the score and he said,yes, these are beautiful, beautiful
songs and you will sing these someday.
He said, but you're notready to sing them now.
(36:31):
I would suggest for the next20 years, you study the poems
and, and then perform them.
And I almost, it was not quite 20 years.
Cause I was about 18 when I was 30.
However many years that would have been,I did sing them first time in Bournemouth.
And he was so right because my, mywhole view of those songs changed over
(36:57):
my life and they're different now thanthey were when I was 30, you know?
And so that's the excitingthing about making music.
You bring your life experienceeach time you sing it.
So it's not like I want to make sure Ising that high G like I sang it last time.
You know, that's boring.
That's boring.
But make it Fit what yourlife expresses now, you know?
(37:21):
You're doing what you were called to do.
What is your thought about calling?
Whether it's being a broadcasteror nowadays a podcaster.
Right, right.
Or what, what, why is calling important?
Or what's your, what's yoursense of what that means?
(37:42):
Well, as my mom would say, You wereborn with this talent, whatever
you want to call it, gift, buthow you use it is so important.
And, um, I guess I feel responsible.
Do you know, I feel
To whom?
(38:03):
To me, to an audience, to God?
To all of the above.
Yeah.
So that I'm not just casually, you know,Oh yeah, I got another gig on this.
It's no big deal.
Do you know, every, I try to get toa point where everything is really
meaningful and special for me.
(38:24):
And for me, I usually, if, if I'mplanning like a recital or something,
I really go through the texts.
I'm most, um, drawn to thepoems that I really like.
And then, then it's like, oh,how did Schubert set that?
Oh, how did Joseph Marx set that?
You know?
And does it fit me?
Does it?
And there are some things thatfit and some things that don't.
(38:46):
And You know, um, I was offered a lotof things early on in my career, which
I just didn't feel like it would work,you know, and, um, And I guess I've
said this thing about, you know, thisis my mom's, you know, this is your gift
and you have to use it a certain way.
I heard Oscar, my grandson, whenhe was about seven, tell somebody,
(39:10):
he said, you know, I think Godblessed me to be an athlete to
be a first baseman and a slugger.
I mean, he's telling us, andhe said, but you know what?
It's on me to be, to practiceand to make it work or whatever.
I mean, and Ross said, he's justheard you say this a lot when you
(39:32):
lecture your students or whatever.
But you know what?
I think we all do have certain giftsthat we're given and I don't know, I
think it's important to find those gifts.
I think one of my gifts isalso, I like to communicate.
Well, I can communicate throughsinging, but I can also communicate
(39:53):
with people, chatting with them,talking, you know, um, I helped
start a community dinner in our town.
We're on our third year.
We thought we would just get like,you know, we'll do it for the summer.
You know, we had like25 people the first one.
We're serving like a hundredpeople and, and we have different
themes and people are like, no,wait, when is the taco night?
(40:15):
Okay.
What night is the, you know, whatever.
So I mean, I think we have to findgifts and, and, and then live them.
I really do.
And we can bring people together somuch through our musical performances.
Yes!
Yes!
That, uh, they're allresponding to the same stimulus.
(40:37):
Yeah.
Even though they comefrom different places.
Well, and have you found too.
And they're drawn togethercloser as a community.
Have you found when people have hearda performance you've done and they'll
say something that they thought wasso amazingly spectacular and it was,
and then you think, wow, and maybe youdidn't feel that same way, you know.
(40:59):
I love that because each personis experiencing it with their life
experience, you know, and yeah,it's, it's really, I love it.
I love it.
Well, I wish we could have.
Gotten you out of your shelljust a little bit more.
Thank you.you soank you much for justopening up and just chatting with us.
(41:24):
Thank you.
This is fun.
Do I have to stop the tape?
Because we're going to talk for hours.
I know.
And you made me feel
I said tape.
Can you believe how old I am?
Well, I know.
And I knew what you meant.
But, but just, you both madethis very easy and relaxed.
And that's Thank you for that.
That's one of the top 20 soprano.
(41:48):
Yes.
Okay, never mind.
I'm off on that now.
Oh, whatever.
That's my friend Christine Brewer,and along with Bach Society music
director and conductor Dennis Sparger,I'm Ron Klemm and this is Bach Talk.
(42:56):
From a Christmas CandlelightConcert at Powell Hall in 2017, Mack
Wilberg's arrangement of Oh HolyNight, Dennis Sparger leading The
Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra,the soprano Christine Brewer.
You can download that and allthe other tracks from The Bach
Society's album Joy to the World.
(43:16):
Go to BachSociety.org andclick on watch and listen.
Remember now, we want to answeryour questions for me, for Maestro
Sparger, for any of our past guests.
Take a moment, right now,contact us with your questions.
Go to BachSociety.org, click on Bach Talk.
There's a simple form that youcan use to ask your question.
(43:38):
Or if you prefer, send me an emaildirectly, BachTalk@BachSociety.org.
The associate producer ofBachTalk is Scott MacDonald.
Special thanks, of course, toChristine Brewer and Dennis Sparger,
(44:00):
The Bach Society's recording engineerfor our performance excerpts.
is Paul Henrick.
Additional assistance provided byAndie Murphy and Charissa Marcinia.
Bach Talk is a registered trademarkof The Bach Society of Saint Louis.
I'm Ron Klemm.
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