May 13, 2024 • 52 mins
Mailbag questions or topic suggestions? Text us!
Here's how you can connect with us:
- www.ciy.com
- @christinyouth on Instagram: you can find all of our individual program accounts in the bio
- CIY Community Facebook Group
- Email us at podcast@ciy.com
As always, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. It also helps us out if you rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and send this episode to a friend!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, this is Brad Warren and you are listening to
Beyond the Event, a youthministry podcast presented by
Christ in Youth, where we helpyou maintain momentum between
the mountaintops.
Today's episode is going to bea lot of fun.
Guy that I really respect andreally like is going to be
joining us today.
His name is Joel Harney.
If you recognize that name, itmight be because he is one of
(00:32):
CIY's favorite people to workwith.
He does not work here at 2201North Main Street in Joplin, but
he does a lot of work alongsideof us, so it's possible that
you've been to an event that hasbeen directed by Joel.
It's possible that this summeryou will go to an event that's
directed by Joel and you'll havea lot of fun with him, I
(00:56):
promise.
But his day job is even coolerthan that.
He's a youth pastor atCommunity Christian Church in
Fort Scott, kansas.
He has over a decade of youthministry experience I think he's
in year 13 at this point and isjust a really spirit-led,
insightful and just what is theword I'm looking for Like a very
(01:24):
thoughtful person about allthings youth ministry and I'm so
pumped for you guys to hearwhat he has to say.
So let's go over to myconversation with Joel.
Joel, thank you so much forcoming on Beyond the Event.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, man Appreciate you being here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You are the first person to be on this show, so
we've had a bunch like this isthe end of the third season, so
I don't know.
We've had 40 or 50 episodes orsomething and I think you're the
first person.
I'll have to look back, but Ithink you're the first person
who's come on the show, whodirects move events, who is not
(02:23):
on staff at Christ in Youth,which I think is kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I want to ask you about what?
Is it like to be on staff withus for a week?
Because I know, that things areinsane at A Week in Move and
I'm kind of preparing all yearlong for that.
I want to know for you, joelHarney, youth pastor, when I
(02:49):
walk into a week and move andall of a sudden I'm in charge
for a week, what does that feellike?
Because I have no concept ofthat.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think, no matter what, whether
your full-time job is is withciy, or whether you're in a
contracted role, it's, it's justyou're drinking from a fire
hydrant, no matter what, um, I Imean honestly, I just I
consider it a great honor to toeven be asked and considered,
(03:17):
and it's um, you know, it issomething that I consider like
this is stewardship, right, andso this, this isn't mine.
This, this has been.
This was someone else's dreamfrom the beginning.
This is a ministry that hasimpacted hundreds of thousands,
(03:37):
if not millions, of lives.
Now, at this point, this is,this is something that I, as a
high school student, you know,was here and felt God's call
into ministry and um, and soit's like, man, I just want to.
This baton has been put in myhand.
I want to run as well and ashard as I can with it and and
(04:13):
make sure that, um, that ourteam's still winning when I,
when I hand it off again, and so, yeah, it's, it's like it's
hard.
I mean it's hard work.
You know that it's.
It's like it's hard.
I mean it's hard work.
You know that it's it's verylong days and and sometimes not
very much sleep at night andit's uh, it's a lot of.
It's a lot of just like prep,like I got to go out on the
(04:33):
stage and say things and closeup moments and do different
things, or I got to lead a teamof people that I didn't know
before this week that I met onSunday.
Right, it's like, well, yeah, Ijust learned your name, also, I
(04:54):
need you to go do this and so,but but I think for me, I've
just watched so many greatpeople in that role, even, you
know, all the way back to myhigh school days, but even just
as a youth pastor, taking peopleto those events or having
opportunities to rub shoulderswith with uh, with a Jason
French or Elaine Moss or an EricEpperson or or whoever those
people are who have, just theycrush it, and and so all I'm
trying to do is say what do theydo well and how, how do I
(05:18):
replicate that?
And so, in that sense, it'slike man, I just want to be a
great model of what's beenmodeled to me, and so in that
sense it's like man.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I just want to be a great model of what's been
modeled to me.
Do you remember the first timeyou were directing?
Because you prepare, you,prepare.
You alluded to that Like thereare scripts that you have to
follow, there are places youhave to be and times you have to
be there and meetings you haveto have, and, like there is an
(05:47):
ideal week of move that youprepare for and an ideal week of
move, has never happened andnever will happen.
Do you remember the first timethat you were like oh crap this
is wild, I guess.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So, like, naturally I'm an improviser, right, I
would rather I'd almost rather,and not that I like.
I just consider like every dayis preparation, so I'm always
trying to read something, listento a podcast, and so I don't
know what I'm preparing for.
I just know that I'm preparing,but I would say like, as I
approach a week of move, I spendmore time praying than I do
reading through the materialthat Lane sends out to all of us
(06:29):
who direct, and so because ofthat, I guess I just feel really
confident in God's Spirit toguide the moment.
And so, whether that'ssomething I got to, I think
God's leading me to say thisthis wasn't in a script, but I
think I need to say this.
Or sometimes it's like man, thiswasn't in a script, but I think
I need to say this Um or uh, or, or sometimes it's like man,
this is not going well and wejust gotta.
(06:50):
We gotta pivot here.
Or I gotta have a conversationwith this team member about what
do we do differently to makesure this, this improves.
And so I guess I've been so, sowell coached from other people
on like, the unexpected momentis coming, so expect it.
It doesn't ever feel that offkilter.
(07:11):
It doesn't feel like oh man, myworld's in shambles.
It's just like yeah, I plannedon this, let's roll.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Which is the only way .
That's the only way that youcan prep for move is to be like
okay, I'm planning for theunexpected 's.
The only way that you can prepfor move is to be like okay, I'm
planning for the unexpectedright.
And the only way I can do thatis to walk in, having spent a
lot of time with the fathermaking sure that we're on the
same page about this right yeah,yeah, it's, it's murphy's law
move is murphy's law.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like whatever can happen will happen, and yeah,
and so just to be it's, and soit is like it's such a joy, it
it.
There's there's some laborthere, right, there's some,
there's some, uh, there's somestress, there's some anxiety,
but there's also this profoundjoy of just like man.
(08:00):
I know what it feels like tohave the spirit guide me in a
moment and know like this wasn'tJoel, joel had nothing to do
with this Like God just steppedinto this moment and did
something that I couldn't haveplanned or prepared for, or gave
me something to say, and so Iguess I spend my life chasing
those moments, Like I want tolive a Spirit-filled life, an
(08:22):
empowered life, and so becauseof that, it just feels like Whoa
, that was so cool.
God, thank you for letting mebe a part of this at all.
Yeah, and so it.
Yeah, it never feels like it'sway out there too much.
It's just God's going to dosomething here and I'm I get to
watch him do it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I'm along for the ride.
Yep, yeah, so directing events.
Has that?
Um?
Has that changed yourperspective at all as youth
pastor, Joel, when you take agroup of students to move like,
has that affected the way thatyou experience?
Move on that, end of things.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I would say like one of the benefits that I
get is like we'll take ourstudents to a week of move
before I go direct one.
And so from that, so from thatseat, like it's awesome to go
see a week that that someoneelse from the CIY office is
directing, and it's like lastyear we were up in Michigan and
(09:20):
Lane directed that event and andso even throughout the week
he's like he's checking in withme, like hey man, what do you
think about this?
I know you're headed to thisevent next, Um, and so that's
really helpful.
Like you, just you kind of getto be a shadow a little bit and
and check in and talk to peopleand ask a few questions, um, so
it's not like there there aresome, there are some people not
(09:44):
promise, I'm not shooting shotshere Like there's some people
who just no, I'm kidding Like nomatter what, no matter what
they're.
just they walk into weeks thatother people create and produce
and they're just hypercritical.
And they you, you only haveeyes to be analytical and you
can and you can only be a critic.
And that's a temptation for any, like any of us, who do any
(10:09):
level of speaking or leadingworship or whatever.
Like you walk into somebodyelse's church, it's easier to
find things wrong than right.
What I, you know, like what Iwant to be, is I want to be able
to offer a good critiquewithout being a critic, and
those are two very differentthings.
And so sometimes, when I'msitting there and I think I know
(10:31):
how this moment was written Idon't know if it hit that, but I
also know what it's like to bethe person trying to deliver on
that moment, or see how all ofthese other variables where it's
like, man, this didn't goexactly how it could have and so
that was a domino effect forhow this needs to go next and
that's okay.
(10:52):
and and to then just have this,this greater awareness of so
many stories of, yeah, thisdidn't go well, but look what
god did right oh yeah and, andso ultimately it's like, okay, I
could walk and do a week ofmove with a different set of
eyes and just be a critic andsit there and be like, well,
this isn't right, and this isn'tright and this isn't right.
Or I could just say, wow, look,how good God is and I got a few
(11:17):
things that I might change oradjust on the fly, or when I
have the opportunity to do itdifferently, I might tweak it.
But ultimately I'm going totrust, first of all, god's
spirit at work in the hearts andminds of people who write this
and and who come up with it, andthen, second of all, god's
spirit at work in the, in thelife of the person who's
directing this, as I'm, I'm justa part of it and that's.
(11:40):
That's the same God who, whomaybe speaks to me in small
moments, as I have thatresponsibility.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh, that's really cool, but you said something in
there and we are going to go ona tangent because it sparked
something in me.
You're talking about criticismand being critical, and there is
because I just want to talkabout the role that being a
(12:13):
critic and the role that kind ofwhat am I trying to like
cynicism almost play in youthministry.
I think there are a lot ofyouth pastors who struggle with
that.
Um, that idea of being being acynic or being overly critical,
not, and and it honestly what itdoes is it inhibits you from
(12:39):
being able to experiencesomething Right?
Um, and I'm not even talkingabout move or mix or superstar
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I'm just talking about in general, um, even
sitting in your own church on asunday morning, right, yeah, and
then even.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
There's another layer of that, too, where I think
that some people maybesubconsciously um wear cynicism
or being critical as like abadge of honor you know it's
it's like this is um, like I'mbetter than you because I
noticed that this is bad, andyou're like no one would say
(13:11):
that out loud.
You know what I mean, but thereis some of that and I wonder why
youth pastors in particularstruggle with this, and I don't
know if you have any insightsinto that or not, but it's just
cause it is.
It's kind of rampant.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I struggle with it.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, like,I'll, just I'll.
I'll be vulnerable, like it'suh, it is easy for me to feel
inferior, right, and so there'sa lot of, there's a lot of
situations that you walk intoand especially like the like,
(13:51):
the youth ministry world is justlike in the other world, um, a
lot of it is is just who youknow and who you've been
connected to, and so, like, myfirst decade in ministry um was
a lot of watching other peoplethat I went to school with get
jobs at big churches or step onstages, and so what does that do
(14:14):
to your own heart?
Well, either I'm not as good asthem or I'm doing something
wrong, you know.
And so you begin to justcalibrate yourself towards, I
don't know, some bitterness andsome jealousy and inferiority.
(14:35):
But I knew that I never want toask my way into something.
I want to be asked, I want tobe asked and and so anything,
anywhere I've ever gone to speakum, anywhere I've ever been
asked to lead um, I don't try tokick down that door.
I want God to open it, and andwhen.
And that gives a, I guess, justa sense of confidence, of like,
(14:59):
okay, god's brought me to this,so he, so he's going to provide
what I need to say, or to leador to do whatever.
I think there's a lot of us inthe youth ministry game who wear
their responsibility as a youthpastor as their identity, and
(15:23):
so that's I mean.
That is a struggle for me,that's a struggle for a lot of
us who now you're guardingagainst your own insecurity.
I feel insecure, so I'm goingto spend my time talking about
everyone else's blemish and notmy own and and not my own, and I
(15:46):
guess I guess like are you?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
saying as a way to like level the playing field
almost yeah it's like, since Ifeel here, I want to make sure
they're coming.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I'm using hand gestures on a podcast, which
makes me an idiot, but you know,I want to bring them down to
kind of the level that I'm atright, yeah, right, yeah, even
in my subconscious, like if Ican, if I can cut their legs out
from under them in my ownsubconscious, then at least I
feel a little bit better aboutmyself.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Like, oh, they're only getting to do this because,
or I would be better at this.
People just don't know.
And it's just such a sour placeto be man, it's such a sour
place to be, um.
And you know, if, if I couldjust like ask a question as a
form of encouragement to anyyouth pastor or you know anyone
(16:31):
listening, like who wins whenyou're grumpy?
You know, no one does, you,don't.
You don't win your students,don't win.
Um, ciy doesn't win Other otheryouth pastors you rub shoulders
with don't win.
Like no one wins when you'regrumpy, and God's certainly not
called you to that, you know.
And so if you found yourself ina position of cynicism, um, and
(16:56):
thinking I can only walk in theroom with eyes to be critical,
um, you know the.
The.
The church phrase is like checkyour heart, bro.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But, but honestly, but what I would, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I you know, but, but there's something about that.
Where you've got to, you got tofirst of all realize this has
never been about you, right, andand the thing that is that is,
um, a refreshing slap in theface for me often is God's going
to do what he wanted to do,whether or not I want him to do
(17:35):
it that way, and I'm just notthat important, and neither are
you.
We're not that important andI'm reminded of that a lot.
We've heroes, and then you growinto Christian maturity and
realize like these are prettymessed up, broken people and
(18:13):
ultimately none of them doimportant things.
God does a lot of importantthings despite them or somehow
through them, and he could haveaccomplished it in any number of
ways.
And so to walk into any roomwith this idea that unless I'm
here, this can't go well, or ifI were in this position, this
(18:35):
would be so much better, it'slike man, you're just not that
important, you just reallyaren't, and it doesn't matter.
And this is true Like this istrue if you're coming from a
church where you're the lead guyof a multi-site church and
you've got four other youthpastors working for you and you
(18:57):
brought 300 kids to the event,or you brought three kids to the
event.
Like that spirit exists in allkinds of us who wear that youth
pastor title, and so I don'tknow why it's so prevalent.
I just know we're not thatimportant and we need to get out
(19:17):
of the way to let God do whathe wants.
Yeah, do his thing.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
It's so funny that you bring that up because at our
staff Devo this morning yourformer youth pastor, john
Luzatter, uh led, led our devoand talked a lot about um, like
he was in Hebrews 10 and 11 alittle bit, and just talking
about how we gravitate toHebrews chapter 11, and this
(19:43):
list of people that are, justyou know, did incredible and
awesome things and they werescumbags.
You know like um, but and andjust you know, did incredible
and awesome things and they werescumbags you know, but and and
just the call in that isfaithfulness, right, um, but
anyway it's fun.
It's just funny that you bringthat up, cause it's my second
(20:05):
time hearing it today.
It's almost like God wantswants me to do something with
that.
Um, anyway, thanks for sharingthat with us.
But, yeah, I agree with you athousand percent, though I mean
cynicism.
It's not cool to be a cynic.
Lane Moss says that all thetime.
Cynicism isn't cool.
(20:26):
Um, cynicism isn't cool, andthat's such a great point that
no one wins when you walk into aroom and you're like I would do
this different.
I would do this different, Iwould do this different.
I could give that sermon better.
I could, you know, fill in theblank with, with whatever thing
it is.
Um, yeah, lot, lots of chew onthere, cause I know you and I
(20:47):
are not the only two people, um,who, who struggle with that.
So, um, anyway, let's talkabout youth ministry a little
bit.
Uh, that was very heavy.
Uh, you are, you are, you'vebeen a youth pastor a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, A while.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, how long now.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Let's see.
I started a part-time youthministry in 2011.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Sweet.
Okay, so let's call it 13 years.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Let's call it that.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's all right with you, lucky number 13.
Can't wait to see what happens.
You're a community Christian inFort Scott great church.
A lot of wonderful people havecoming out.
Come out of that church, um andand yeah, I just I've never
been.
It's one of those churches.
It's really cool Cause it'slike I've never been to
(21:41):
community Christian in FortScott.
But, um, I know of its legacyand that's just a really cool
thing.
But you went there expecting notto be the youth pastor, right,
and I just want to kind of knowthat.
And now you are a youth pastoragain.
So I kind of want to hear thatwhole story, that journey for
you.
I don't even know if I knowwhat job you thought you were
(22:04):
walking into when you movedthere.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Sure, we'll see if I know.
Yeah, so my wife and I we werein Dallas, texas, and as a youth
minister at Valley ViewChristian Church in Dallas and
we were.
It was about four and a halfyears in and I just had felt the
(22:31):
Lord stirring in my heart andvery unironically, I guess I
would say, we were on the wayhome.
So we've had family that livehere in Fort Scott.
My wife's aunt and uncle arehere and I was on my way home
from preaching a wedding here.
(22:51):
We were driving back to Dallasand my wife and I just started
to have this conversation and Ihad been preaching a little bit
more in just different contextsand some outside opportunities,
but then just more in our churchtoo, and I was like man, I know
, like ultimately I know likeGod's calling me to use that
gifting of preaching.
Ultimately I know God's callingme to use that gifting of
preaching.
And so we just started to havethat conversation on the way
(23:13):
home from Fort Scott and so webegan to pray about some
different opportunities andthere are some different things
that kind of landed in our lapto think about and pray through,
and one of those was, a fewmonths later I got a call from
our lead guy here and just saidhey, I need to hire someone.
I don't know for what, I don'tknow.
(23:35):
I don't really know what I'mhiring yet, but he just said
you're my first call to see ifthat was even something you'd be
interested in.
And just for the viewers at home, we're living in the Dallas
Metroplex population about 8million people.
Fort Scott is about 8,000people.
(23:56):
There's, no, you know, all ofour creature comforts.
There was a very sweet windowof our life while we were in
(24:17):
Dallas, where my wife is a nurseand so she was working nights.
We don't have any children atthis time and MoviePass had just
come out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Oh, what a glorious summer.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And so I had a MoviePass with my best friend
there, josh, and uh, and so didhe, and, like, we were going to
three or four movies a week, yes, at super nice theaters, and
that like, and so there's not,there's not a nice movie theater
, like, just like anything youcould think of.
It's like we don't haveamenities, right, um, and so,
(24:48):
just from like that standpoint,I was like, no, I think, I think
I'm good, um, and literally uh,so I hung up the phone and and
took some students on a ski tripand this is early 2020, um, and
, and so I.
There was something about it,though, that I couldn't escape
(25:11):
thinking about, and so we juststarted to pray about it some
more, and this is one of thosethings where it's like, okay, I
want to.
Ultimately, I just want to bein God's will, right, ultimately
, I want to be in the place thatGod's moving, because if I'm
not in that place that he'smoving, then that's the worst
(25:37):
place to be.
Right, I don't want to go basedon my wants, I want to go based
on his will, and so we juststarted to pray about it some
more, but still just like really, really wrestling with is this
right?
And sort of.
In that time the job descriptionbegan to take place the role of
associate minister, and thatwas, if you know anything about
(25:59):
the church world, that's anall-encompassing title, a
catch-all Preach sometimes andhelp with, like I do a lot with
our communications team now and,um, at the time it was, it was
leading worship like half thetime, which is, uh, is like in
(26:20):
my toolbox, but not somethingthat I, like, am passionate
about doing, right, like I enjoydoing it here and there, but
it's not, it's not the thingthat gets me up in the morning
and so.
But there were just like it waskind of this smorgasbord of
different responsibilities hereat this church that kind of made
their way onto a jobdescription.
And so we were again.
We were praying through it,considering it, talking to some
(26:42):
wise people, and, and I I wokeup at three or four in the
morning one night.
This is, this is early Februaryof 2020.
And I was praying.
God woke me up to pray is theonly way I know how to say it
and I was just like God.
I don't know what to do, Idon't know even how to weigh
(27:03):
this decision, I don't know howto think through this, and so I
just like this is like one ofthose delirious middle of the
night moments and I was justlike God, would you give my wife
a dream about where we'reliving a year from now?
Would you give my wife a dreamabout where we're living a year
from now?
There was an opportunity herein Fort Scott.
There was something else thatwas on our radar a little bit,
(27:24):
and then there was like maybe westay in Dallas, and so we wake
up early the next morning.
It was a Sunday morning.
We were both on a worship teamthat morning at our church, and
so she woke up and the firstthing out of her mouth was I had
a crazy dream last night.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And you're like what was it?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Do tell.
And I'm like, at this point I'mnot, you know, I'm not giving
any hints or clues and she'sjust like we were.
We were at my uncle's church inFort Scott and I had a baby and
we were sitting on the back rowof the church and the baby
wouldn't be quiet and it wasjust really weird.
I was like, okay, forget allthe other details.
Where, where were we?
And she's like we were in FortScott, and I said this is going
(28:08):
to sound crazy, but last nightGod woke me up to pray and I
just prayed that he would giveyou a dream about where we're
living a year from now.
Um, and I think this is Godtelling us to move to Fort Scott
, and, and ultimately it was,and, and what was crazy was what
we didn't know at the time, um,and we didn't know until after
(28:31):
we'd accepted the position andmade our plans to move, that we
were pregnant with twins, um,which is just crazy, um, and so
God was moving us to a differentlocation for a different season
of life, you know.
And so, outside of all of, likethe ministry ramifications and
aspects, like, it was just rightfor our family.
My wife needed to step awayfrom full-time work and we got a
(28:56):
lot closer to family who couldhelp support in that season and
you know, we already had adaughter at that time, and so we
were going to have three veryyoung children, um, all at the
same time and and needed somedifferent space and pace to be
able to handle that, and Godprovided that.
(29:17):
So, when we moved here, um inJune of 2020, um, at that time,
the church was not meeting inperson, which was just bizarre.
So I started like my firstresponsibilities were, uh,
preparing our uh we call themour digital worship experiences.
(29:37):
Like we weren't a livestreaming church, and so, um, we
, we were doing that.
So I was like my firstintroduction to the church was
through video, um, and then Iwas preaching sermons to a
camera for people that I reallyhad never met, which was just
bizarre.
And then, so we, we came backto in-person worship later that
(30:02):
year and then, at that time, the, the youth pastor, who was on
staff when I was hired, had letus know that he was taking a
different position, um, atanother church, and, and so we
just started to like thinkthrough what, what are the
options here?
Um, first of all, hiring ayouth pastor is just hard Right.
(30:27):
And and since I had stepped away, I just felt like, man, I miss
that.
I was out of the youth ministrygame a little bit.
I still love to be aroundstudents.
My mind, I'm just a dreamer,I'm an ideas person and I
couldn't stop thinking of ideasfor youth ministry or things
(30:47):
that I would do.
And what I had planned to dowas just to share those, like to
give those over to the guy hereand just say, hey, what if this
, and how can I help here andcan I be a part of helping serve
your ministry in this way?
And ultimately, god had beengiving me those things because
we were going to shuffle kind ofour staff deck and reorder some
(31:08):
things.
Shuffle kind of our staff deckand and reorder some things.
Um, my brother was on staff, uh,with me in Dallas and just he
and his wife knew it was timefor them to step away as well.
They moved here, uh, shortlyafter we did, about six months
after we did, um, without muchof a plan, to be honest.
And then, uh, but he's, he'sbeen a worship leader for for 15
(31:31):
years, so he's, uh, he's been apastor for a long time and and
so as, as these doors wereopening, it became very clear
like here's what God was doing,here's how he was moving these
pieces in a way that made sense,in a way that was healthy and
good.
And and so he's.
He's our part-time, uh, worshipminister now, um, and I'm I'm
(31:53):
doing the youth ministry thingwith, with some of those
associate responsibilitieswrapped up into that.
But there's the, there's theshort story long on how all that
came together.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
When you moved for the associate minister role, did
you feel like you were closingthe book on youth ministry, like
in your mind?
Was it like, all right, I'msaying goodbye to this part of
myself and probably for the restof my life I'm going to be
doing a different thing.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I mean those thoughts were, I mean definitely
in my mind.
The other things we werethinking about is like full-time
preaching ministry, like go bethe lead guy somewhere else, and
so my mind was calibratedtowards like okay, I'm going to
be in the adult world, I'm goingto be preaching and working,
(32:43):
you know, and you know, kind ofhands-on in our adult
discipleship ministries andthose kinds of things.
So, yeah, I mean, there wassome of that.
Even to the point where I wasgetting rid of costumes and Nerf
guns and stuff in our move.
We're like I'm never going touse this again.
And now there's a box ofPop-Tarts back here and I got a
closet full of Nerf guns andwhatever.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
All the things you need Right.
So, psychologically, what ifthere might not have been?
I don't know but, like, whathurdles were there to going back
, Like after you've already madethe shift in your mind?
It's like loved youth ministry.
That was so great, Uh, reallyfruitful time in my life.
(33:23):
But I'm looking forward and Ithink that God has something
different for me as I, as I headdown the road.
So what was it like for you toto use a word you used
recalibrate again back intostudent ministry space?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, I guess, because
my, I would almost say it ifthe flow happened the other way,
like I felt like I was steppingout and then I just began to
notice like I feel drunk, like Ifeel drawn into youth ministry
(34:04):
again.
I don't, I don't know how toexplain it other than that yeah,
um, and so at the time when our, when our current guy came to
us and said, hey, I'm, I'mstepping away, like immediately,
I was like, wait a second, god,like what, what is this?
Um, and and so I think, and,and so I think, you know, I
(34:33):
think, no matter what, it'sreally it's really healthy to
step away, for, you know, if youcan get away for a week or you
can take a weekend or whatever,I got six months to just step
out and be like, okay, catch mybreath.
There's some really really hardseasons in in Dallas.
There's some crazy stuff thathappened.
There's some stuff we had towalk through with students or
adult leaders or whatever, andjust like from an emotional toll
and people who are listening tothis like something popped into
(34:54):
your head, I get it.
You heard me say that Like youget it, to be able to just take
a step back for a minute andthink and dream a little bit and
pray and realize like, oh,god's calling me back into this
was just so good.
And so when I stepped back in,I had all kinds of ideas, all
kinds of things I was fired upabout.
(35:16):
Now, what was really hard andthis is like I don't know how
much of this territory we wantto get into, but there were,
there are, a lot of people,especially in a small town, who
have very specific ideas of howthings should go.
Yeah, and so any kind ofdisruption, even if it's
(35:37):
ultimately positive, is justreally tough territory.
Um, the guy before me wasbeloved, just as like a pastor.
He was great with students,being with them, encouraging
them.
He had a great pastoralpresence.
(35:58):
And I'll be honest, brad, apastoral presence is not my
default nature.
I am.
I think God's gifted me as aleader and a communicator.
Yeah, I'm growing, you know.
I think all of us are called topastor who are in ministry, and
so I'm growing in my pastoralrole.
(36:19):
But it's not my default natureto just sit with people in their
pain.
I hate that idea actually.
And so my ideas to make shiftswere met with resistance, just
because I wasn't the guy beforeme, and that's true for all of
us who have stepped into newroles and seats.
And so there was a Getting somethings off the ground or making
(36:43):
some changes first metstripping away some of the
things that had just existed.
Even to like the youth ministrywas still called for 12
students, which was not even theguy before me's idea or the guy
(37:05):
before him.
It was four youth pastors agohad come up with this idea.
It's a very early 2000sapproach.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
We all knew when that name was adopted.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Right, yeah, and so it's just, you know.
And also there's some historyin our church that isn't good,
especially in the youth ministryworld, and I just immediately
was like we've got to distanceourselves from that.
We've got to get away frompeople see that logo or hear
that term and not all of theconnotations are good, and so we
(37:37):
need to distance ourselves fromthat.
And so we made, like a I don'tlike term, a whole lot, but like
we made, we made a brand shift,um, to to get away from some of
that baggage and to reinventthe idea.
There was also some stuff where, like man, that coming out of
covid, there hadn't been a lotof church life in general, uh,
(38:00):
you know, no, no, gathering, no,uh, development, no, uh,
development of new, uh leadersor volunteers or anything like
that.
And so they're.
Just, there was not a whole lotof uh, a youth ministry
skeleton.
To begin with.
Everyone thought the one thathad existed would come right
back into play and I just feltlike God was calling us to do
something different.
(38:20):
Um, and it down to, like youknow, at the time there was that
that I had jumped in.
There was four other adults whoare participating in youth
ministry.
Um, and I was like man this ifI'm going to do anything, it's
going to be getting way moreadults in our church involved in
this, and so now we have 24.
(38:43):
That's great, and it's likethat has been the thing I felt.
More than anything that God wascalling me to do is to develop
other people.
I mean, this is Ephesians 4.
This is what I think my job is.
It's the work of the ministerto empower and equip the saints
to do the work of ministry.
Ultimately, what I want to betrue is I could die tomorrow,
(39:04):
and everything that's going tohappen tonight can happen next
week, because people areempowered to do it.
They all know how to lead andto pastor their group of 10 or
12 students that they meet withevery night, and so there was a
lot of resistance at first, andthen some of these things began
to find their footing, and nowthere's just a lot of momentum,
(39:27):
which has been really cool tosee how.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
God's worked through all of that, um, okay, however,
uh, I have taken up too much ofyour time, but I do want to ask
you this I want to have one moreconversation and I want to make
sure we have time for one moreconversation, which is how so
(39:53):
you got?
It's funny because it you'retalking about that time that you
were an associate pastor,almost like people talk about a
sabbatical even though you wereworking, Um, uh, and I think
it's really cool that you wereable to have that time.
I want to know how you are adifferent youth pastor now than
you were on the other side ofthat time.
(40:15):
You know what I mean.
How did that time like changeyou?
Um, from a philosophystandpoint, from whatever it is
like, what's different now thanwas before?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, um, I would say just in in general, not just
from that time, but but the lastfew years um, I have learned a
lot more about myself.
Um, and and some of that is,there was a time in my life
(40:49):
where I ran from God's callingin my life, um, and that
happened in a few different ways.
One is when I first went toBible college.
I said, God, I'll do the youthministry thing, love the idea of
playing video games and pizza,but I'm never going to preach,
so don't ask me to do it, don'twant to take any preaching
classes, I don't want to do that.
That scares me.
(41:11):
Then there was a season where Ileft school altogether and
thought I'm not doing this, Iwant to be a part of that.
There's been different seasonswhere it's like I've run from
God's call and in this last fewyears, especially in this move
and in that, you know, pseudosabbatical time, I've learned
who God has made me to be and II've also learned that it's okay
(41:34):
to be confident in who God'smade me to be.
You know, we taught we, wetalked about this or we started
this conversation talking aboutinsecurity.
Yeah, and there's a differencebetween insecurity and humility.
Right Of insecurity would say,ooh, I don't know if I could do
that, and ultimately what you'resaying is, um, I don't trust
(41:56):
God to do that through me.
Um, humility says, um, I am not, but I know I am right To
borrow the phrase from LouisGiglio like, no, I can't do this
, but I know the God who can dothis if I'm just willing to put
myself in his hands.
And so I would say that seasonof stepping out of youth
(42:17):
ministry was just a process toreflect and to ask some
clarifying questions of who hasGod made me to be?
And then what I realized is whatGod has gifted me to do should
be a language that speaks in anycontext, whether I'm an
associate, whether I'm a youthminister, whether I'm doing, you
know, serving the ministry ofCIY in some capacity.
(42:40):
God's equipped me to do somespecific things, and, you know,
one of the things that AndyStanley says is only do what
only you can do.
And I wanted to just doubledown on my strengths, which I
think is leadership, developmentand communication.
And so what I stepped back intoyouth ministry thinking more
(43:01):
about was again how do I developand equip other adults to do
the work of youth ministry?
I loved the late night nerfbattles at church, right.
I love hanging out withstudents, having them over to
watch a movie or playing videogames or whatever like all just
(43:24):
the fun stuff.
Those are great, but ultimatelythose are not needle movers.
What has moved the needle iswhen I can help another adult
see the way God has gifted them,to believe that God's gifted
them, to use that to servestudents and then to watch
students be served in that, andthat has done more in terms of
(43:48):
building momentum in ministrythan anything else.
So what I believe my job is Itry to be as pastoral and
personal with students as I canbe.
I want to give them high fives,I want to ask them questions, I
want to engage with them, Iwant them to feel like I know
them and care about them becauseI, because I do.
But more than that, I want myadult leaders to walk in the
(44:12):
room embodying that same kind ofpresence and that and that
creates a culture that is is notreplicable otherwise.
And and so in that season Ilearned a lot about leadership.
I read a lot more aboutleadership and and personal
growth and development, and thenI just tried to attack youth
(44:34):
ministry in that idea of man.
I want to build leaders um whocan leverage their lives to
serve students and and growGod's kingdom in the process.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, I love that you tied it back to the
conversation we were havingearlier.
But the conversation we werehaving earlier, I think one of
the best things you said wasthat question that you encourage
people to pose to themselves,like who wins, who wins?
if you're grumpy, who wins ifyou're cynical?
A lot of youth pastors, a lotof people who are listening to
(45:10):
this, will not have the luxuryof being able to step away from
youth ministry for six monthsand then come back in.
So, from the perspective thatyou've gained, you know what
questions do you feel like youthpastors should be asking
themselves in order to be ableto see kind of the benefit of
what you've been able to see,but without the luxury of being
(45:32):
able to kind of walk that sameroad?
Because, a lot of us can't.
You know what I mean, and Idon't think you even chose that
path, but you were beingfaithful to God in that, and
that's.
You've seen really cool fruitfrom that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, what questions I would say.
The first one is this what hasGod made you to do?
Now, we all have like we're allyouth ministers, right, but
there's something God has madeyou to do.
What is the thing only you cando?
It's probably not a job titleright, like so, double down on
(46:10):
your strengths, whatever thosethings are, and then delegate
your weakness.
That's, that's the thing that Ilearned.
Um, I have a lot of weaknesses.
I'm not I.
I am a.
I'm a direction person.
I'm not a details person.
I don't.
I don't know if I'm a, if I'm aMicrosoft, uh, application, I'm
(46:30):
a, I'm a document.
I'm not a spreadsheet I like,and so what is the thing that
God's made you to do?
And then, how do you delegateyour weakness?
Um, use your strength to servethe church.
The second thing I would say iswhat?
(46:51):
No, who is in your church rightnow, who should be your partner
in ministry, who you've not yetbuilt a bridge with yet?
And so there's a lot of thetemptation in youth ministry is
to roll out of bed and do itright, like I think almost all
(47:13):
of us listening right now it's aWednesday that we're recording
this.
We could probably roll out ofbed, pull something out of our
rear end and do a youth groupnight on a Wednesday night, and
kids would have fun and and theythey might even, you know,
respond to Jesus and and andthat's, that's awesome.
(47:33):
But what if you began to walkinto your church on a Sunday
morning and ask God who in thisroom can help serve students in
ways that I can't and who wouldactually be served by stepping
into this ministry with me.
Like there's two sides of thesame coin.
(47:54):
Students are going to win whenother adults in your church step
into their lives, but adultsare going to win as they step
into the lives of students.
There's something that God doesin us, as he works through us,
that grows the entire church,and so I think those are the two
questions, right.
What has God made you to do?
(48:15):
And then, who has God put inyour path that you need to be
tapping them on the shoulder andsaying, hey, I see this in you
and I think this is reallyimportant.
This is a hill I will die on.
This is my soapbox.
Right, that whenever you wantpeople to be involved in
something, you don't get up onstage and broadcast it.
Hey, I need four people with apulse to come throw dodgeballs
(48:39):
at kids.
We think that sounds like a fun, good announcement and anybody
can do it.
Don't do that.
Walk up to somebody and say,man, I've seen the way that you
lead your family.
We need better leadership inour youth group.
I need a man who has the abilityto not be impressive but to
make an impression on young men,and I see that in you.
(49:02):
Would you come serve students?
I don't need you to do anythingdifferent than just be you.
Come make an impression onyoung men, and I see that in you
.
Would you come serve students?
I don't need you to do anythingdifferent than just be you Come
make an impression on the youngmen that gather with us every
Wednesday night.
People respond to that kind ofcall when you identify the thing
in them that God's given themand say this is how you steward
it for the benefit of our churchand the kingdom.
(49:22):
Yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That's great, man.
I can see people askingthemselves those questions and
answering those questions andfeeling a sense of a revitalized
passion for ministry.
Just, I mean there's so muchfreedom in answering those
questions.
Just I mean there's so muchfreedom in in answering those
(49:47):
questions, um, there's so muchlike ego that you can let go of,
there's so much self that youcan let go of when you're
compensating for your weaknesses, when you're delegating to
other people, when you'reinviting other people into, into
partnership in your ministry.
And I just, yeah, I felt asense of like rest and peace as
you were saying some of thosethings, and I hope other people
(50:09):
did too, and I'm super gratefulfor you, super grateful for your
ministry out there, andthankful that you were able to
be here and spend some time withus today.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, thanks, brad.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
I said this to Joel off mic and I'm going to say it
to you guys now.
That was kind of a hardconversation for me because I
relate to so much of what Joelwas saying.
I know that kind of a hardconversation for me, um, because
I relate to so much of whatJoel was saying.
I know that kind of inferioritycomplex.
I know that can lead to us, um,kind of falling into that
comparison trap.
I can know that that can leadto us, uh, like internally, kind
(51:00):
of stacking ourselves upagainst other people in our
lives and that's not healthy,it's not good, it's not from
Christ at all in any way.
And I am so, so grateful thatJoel was able to kind of speak
that truth into my life today.
I hope that that was good foryou to hear as well.
(51:22):
I am going to read our blessingover life today.
I hope that that was good foryou to hear as well.
I am going to read our blessingover you today.
May God show you grace andbless you.
May he make his face shine onyou.
May you experience the love ofChrist, through whom God gives
you fullness of life.
May you be strengthened by hispower.
May Christ himself make hishome in your heart, that you
(51:43):
would be full of his love andgrace and that those you serve
would see Jesus in you.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, lauren Bryan and
myself.
Huge thank you to Joel forbeing here, for being vulnerable
, for being willing to sharewith us about some tough things,
and thank you also for tuningin and listening If you liked
(52:07):
what you heard.
Be sure to subscribe to be onthe event.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're going to be back one
last time for season three intwo weeks, so be sure not to
miss that.
In the meantime, you can reachout to us on the CYY community
Facebook group or by email atpodcastcyycom.
See you next time, thank you.
Hello, this is Brad Warren and you are listening to
Beyond the Event, a youthministry podcast presented by
Christ in Youth, where we helpyou maintain momentum between
the mountaintops.
Today's episode is going to bea lot of fun.
Guy that I really respect andreally like is going to be
joining us today.
His name is Joel Harney.
If you recognize that name, itmight be because he is one of
(00:32):
CIY's favorite people to workwith.
He does not work here at 2201North Main Street in Joplin, but
he does a lot of work alongsideof us, so it's possible that
you've been to an event that hasbeen directed by Joel.
It's possible that this summeryou will go to an event that's
directed by Joel and you'll havea lot of fun with him, I
(00:56):
promise.
But his day job is even coolerthan that.
He's a youth pastor atCommunity Christian Church in
Fort Scott, kansas.
He has over a decade of youthministry experience I think he's
in year 13 at this point and isjust a really spirit-led,
insightful and just what is theword I'm looking for Like a very
(01:24):
thoughtful person about allthings youth ministry and I'm so
pumped for you guys to hearwhat he has to say.
So let's go over to myconversation with Joel.
Joel, thank you so much forcoming on Beyond the Event.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, man Appreciate you being here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You are the first person to be on this show, so
we've had a bunch like this isthe end of the third season, so
I don't know.
We've had 40 or 50 episodes orsomething and I think you're the
first person.
I'll have to look back, but Ithink you're the first person
who's come on the show, whodirects move events, who is not
(02:23):
on staff at Christ in Youth,which I think is kind of funny.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So I want to ask you about that.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I want to ask you about what?
Is it like to be on staff withus for a week?
Because I know, that things areinsane at A Week in Move and
I'm kind of preparing all yearlong for that.
I want to know for you, joelHarney, youth pastor, when I
(02:49):
walk into a week and move andall of a sudden I'm in charge
for a week, what does that feellike?
Because I have no concept ofthat.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think, no matter what, whether
your full-time job is is withciy, or whether you're in a
contracted role, it's, it's justyou're drinking from a fire
hydrant, no matter what, um, I Imean honestly, I just I
consider it a great honor to toeven be asked and considered,
(03:17):
and it's um, you know, it issomething that I consider like
this is stewardship, right, andso this, this isn't mine.
This, this has been.
This was someone else's dreamfrom the beginning.
This is a ministry that hasimpacted hundreds of thousands,
(03:37):
if not millions, of lives.
Now, at this point, this is,this is something that I, as a
high school student, you know,was here and felt God's call
into ministry and um, and soit's like, man, I just want to.
This baton has been put in myhand.
I want to run as well and ashard as I can with it and and
(04:13):
make sure that, um, that ourteam's still winning when I,
when I hand it off again, and so, yeah, it's, it's like it's
hard.
I mean it's hard work.
You know that it's.
It's like it's hard.
I mean it's hard work.
You know that it's it's verylong days and and sometimes not
very much sleep at night andit's uh, it's a lot of.
It's a lot of just like prep,like I got to go out on the
(04:33):
stage and say things and closeup moments and do different
things, or I got to lead a teamof people that I didn't know
before this week that I met onSunday.
Right, it's like, well, yeah, Ijust learned your name, also, I
(04:54):
need you to go do this and so,but but I think for me, I've
just watched so many greatpeople in that role, even, you
know, all the way back to myhigh school days, but even just
as a youth pastor, taking peopleto those events or having
opportunities to rub shoulderswith with uh, with a Jason
French or Elaine Moss or an EricEpperson or or whoever those
people are who have, just theycrush it, and and so all I'm
trying to do is say what do theydo well and how, how do I
(05:18):
replicate that?
And so, in that sense, it'slike man, I just want to be a
great model of what's beenmodeled to me, and so in that
sense it's like man.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I just want to be a great model of what's been
modeled to me.
Do you remember the first timeyou were directing?
Because you prepare, you,prepare.
You alluded to that Like thereare scripts that you have to
follow, there are places youhave to be and times you have to
be there and meetings you haveto have, and, like there is an
(05:47):
ideal week of move that youprepare for and an ideal week of
move, has never happened andnever will happen.
Do you remember the first timethat you were like oh crap this
is wild, I guess.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So, like, naturally I'm an improviser, right, I
would rather I'd almost rather,and not that I like.
I just consider like every dayis preparation, so I'm always
trying to read something, listento a podcast, and so I don't
know what I'm preparing for.
I just know that I'm preparing,but I would say like, as I
approach a week of move, I spendmore time praying than I do
reading through the materialthat Lane sends out to all of us
(06:29):
who direct, and so because ofthat, I guess I just feel really
confident in God's Spirit toguide the moment.
And so, whether that'ssomething I got to, I think
God's leading me to say thisthis wasn't in a script, but I
think I need to say this.
Or sometimes it's like man, thiswasn't in a script, but I think
I need to say this Um or uh, or, or sometimes it's like man,
this is not going well and wejust gotta.
(06:50):
We gotta pivot here.
Or I gotta have a conversationwith this team member about what
do we do differently to makesure this, this improves.
And so I guess I've been so, sowell coached from other people
on like, the unexpected momentis coming, so expect it.
It doesn't ever feel that offkilter.
(07:11):
It doesn't feel like oh man, myworld's in shambles.
It's just like yeah, I plannedon this, let's roll.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Which is the only way .
That's the only way that youcan prep for move is to be like
okay, I'm planning for theunexpected 's.
The only way that you can prepfor move is to be like okay, I'm
planning for the unexpectedright.
And the only way I can do thatis to walk in, having spent a
lot of time with the fathermaking sure that we're on the
same page about this right yeah,yeah, it's, it's murphy's law
move is murphy's law.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Like whatever can happen will happen, and yeah,
and so just to be it's, and soit is like it's such a joy, it
it.
There's there's some laborthere, right, there's some,
there's some, uh, there's somestress, there's some anxiety,
but there's also this profoundjoy of just like man.
(08:00):
I know what it feels like tohave the spirit guide me in a
moment and know like this wasn'tJoel, joel had nothing to do
with this Like God just steppedinto this moment and did
something that I couldn't haveplanned or prepared for, or gave
me something to say, and so Iguess I spend my life chasing
those moments, Like I want tolive a Spirit-filled life, an
(08:22):
empowered life, and so becauseof that, it just feels like Whoa
, that was so cool.
God, thank you for letting mebe a part of this at all.
Yeah, and so it.
Yeah, it never feels like it'sway out there too much.
It's just God's going to dosomething here and I'm I get to
watch him do it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I'm along for the ride.
Yep, yeah, so directing events.
Has that?
Um?
Has that changed yourperspective at all as youth
pastor, Joel, when you take agroup of students to move like,
has that affected the way thatyou experience?
Move on that, end of things.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, I would say like one of the benefits that I
get is like we'll take ourstudents to a week of move
before I go direct one.
And so from that, so from thatseat, like it's awesome to go
see a week that that someoneelse from the CIY office is
directing, and it's like lastyear we were up in Michigan and
(09:20):
Lane directed that event and andso even throughout the week
he's like he's checking in withme, like hey man, what do you
think about this?
I know you're headed to thisevent next, Um, and so that's
really helpful.
Like you, just you kind of getto be a shadow a little bit and
and check in and talk to peopleand ask a few questions, um, so
it's not like there there aresome, there are some people not
(09:44):
promise, I'm not shooting shotshere Like there's some people
who just no, I'm kidding Like nomatter what, no matter what
they're.
just they walk into weeks thatother people create and produce
and they're just hypercritical.
And they you, you only haveeyes to be analytical and you
can and you can only be a critic.
And that's a temptation for any, like any of us, who do any
(10:09):
level of speaking or leadingworship or whatever.
Like you walk into somebodyelse's church, it's easier to
find things wrong than right.
What I, you know, like what Iwant to be, is I want to be able
to offer a good critiquewithout being a critic, and
those are two very differentthings.
And so sometimes, when I'msitting there and I think I know
(10:31):
how this moment was written Idon't know if it hit that, but I
also know what it's like to bethe person trying to deliver on
that moment, or see how all ofthese other variables where it's
like, man, this didn't goexactly how it could have and so
that was a domino effect forhow this needs to go next and
that's okay.
(10:52):
and and to then just have this,this greater awareness of so
many stories of, yeah, thisdidn't go well, but look what
god did right oh yeah and, andso ultimately it's like, okay, I
could walk and do a week ofmove with a different set of
eyes and just be a critic andsit there and be like, well,
this isn't right, and this isn'tright and this isn't right.
Or I could just say, wow, look,how good God is and I got a few
(11:17):
things that I might change oradjust on the fly, or when I
have the opportunity to do itdifferently, I might tweak it.
But ultimately I'm going totrust, first of all, god's
spirit at work in the hearts andminds of people who write this
and and who come up with it, andthen, second of all, god's
spirit at work in the, in thelife of the person who's
directing this, as I'm, I'm justa part of it and that's.
(11:40):
That's the same God who, whomaybe speaks to me in small
moments, as I have thatresponsibility.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh, that's really cool, but you said something in
there and we are going to go ona tangent because it sparked
something in me.
You're talking about criticismand being critical, and there is
because I just want to talkabout the role that being a
(12:13):
critic and the role that kind ofwhat am I trying to like
cynicism almost play in youthministry.
I think there are a lot ofyouth pastors who struggle with
that.
Um, that idea of being being acynic or being overly critical,
not, and and it honestly what itdoes is it inhibits you from
(12:39):
being able to experiencesomething Right?
Um, and I'm not even talkingabout move or mix or superstar
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I'm just talking about in general, um, even
sitting in your own church on asunday morning, right, yeah, and
then even.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
There's another layer of that, too, where I think
that some people maybesubconsciously um wear cynicism
or being critical as like abadge of honor you know it's
it's like this is um, like I'mbetter than you because I
noticed that this is bad, andyou're like no one would say
(13:11):
that out loud.
You know what I mean, but thereis some of that and I wonder why
youth pastors in particularstruggle with this, and I don't
know if you have any insightsinto that or not, but it's just
cause it is.
It's kind of rampant.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I struggle with it.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, like,I'll, just I'll.
I'll be vulnerable, like it'suh, it is easy for me to feel
inferior, right, and so there'sa lot of, there's a lot of
situations that you walk intoand especially like the like,
(13:51):
the youth ministry world is justlike in the other world, um, a
lot of it is is just who youknow and who you've been
connected to, and so, like, myfirst decade in ministry um was
a lot of watching other peoplethat I went to school with get
jobs at big churches or step onstages, and so what does that do
(14:14):
to your own heart?
Well, either I'm not as good asthem or I'm doing something
wrong, you know.
And so you begin to justcalibrate yourself towards, I
don't know, some bitterness andsome jealousy and inferiority.
(14:35):
But I knew that I never want toask my way into something.
I want to be asked, I want tobe asked and and so anything,
anywhere I've ever gone to speakum, anywhere I've ever been
asked to lead um, I don't try tokick down that door.
I want God to open it, and andwhen.
And that gives a, I guess, justa sense of confidence, of like,
(14:59):
okay, god's brought me to this,so he, so he's going to provide
what I need to say, or to leador to do whatever.
I think there's a lot of us inthe youth ministry game who wear
their responsibility as a youthpastor as their identity, and
(15:23):
so that's I mean.
That is a struggle for me,that's a struggle for a lot of
us who now you're guardingagainst your own insecurity.
I feel insecure, so I'm goingto spend my time talking about
everyone else's blemish and notmy own and and not my own, and I
(15:46):
guess I guess like are you?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
saying as a way to like level the playing field
almost yeah it's like, since Ifeel here, I want to make sure
they're coming.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I'm using hand gestures on a podcast, which
makes me an idiot, but you know,I want to bring them down to
kind of the level that I'm atright, yeah, right, yeah, even
in my subconscious, like if Ican, if I can cut their legs out
from under them in my ownsubconscious, then at least I
feel a little bit better aboutmyself.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Like, oh, they're only getting to do this because,
or I would be better at this.
People just don't know.
And it's just such a sour placeto be man, it's such a sour
place to be, um.
And you know, if, if I couldjust like ask a question as a
form of encouragement to anyyouth pastor or you know anyone
(16:31):
listening, like who wins whenyou're grumpy?
You know, no one does, you,don't.
You don't win your students,don't win.
Um, ciy doesn't win Other otheryouth pastors you rub shoulders
with don't win.
Like no one wins when you'regrumpy, and God's certainly not
called you to that, you know.
And so if you found yourself ina position of cynicism, um, and
(16:56):
thinking I can only walk in theroom with eyes to be critical,
um, you know the.
The.
The church phrase is like checkyour heart, bro.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But, but honestly, but what I would, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I you know, but, but there's something about that.
Where you've got to, you got tofirst of all realize this has
never been about you, right, andand the thing that is that is,
um, a refreshing slap in theface for me often is God's going
to do what he wanted to do,whether or not I want him to do
(17:35):
it that way, and I'm just notthat important, and neither are
you.
We're not that important andI'm reminded of that a lot.
We've heroes, and then you growinto Christian maturity and
realize like these are prettymessed up, broken people and
(18:13):
ultimately none of them doimportant things.
God does a lot of importantthings despite them or somehow
through them, and he could haveaccomplished it in any number of
ways.
And so to walk into any roomwith this idea that unless I'm
here, this can't go well, or ifI were in this position, this
(18:35):
would be so much better, it'slike man, you're just not that
important, you just reallyaren't, and it doesn't matter.
And this is true Like this istrue if you're coming from a
church where you're the lead guyof a multi-site church and
you've got four other youthpastors working for you and you
(18:57):
brought 300 kids to the event,or you brought three kids to the
event.
Like that spirit exists in allkinds of us who wear that youth
pastor title, and so I don'tknow why it's so prevalent.
I just know we're not thatimportant and we need to get out
(19:17):
of the way to let God do whathe wants.
Yeah, do his thing.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
It's so funny that you bring that up because at our
staff Devo this morning yourformer youth pastor, john
Luzatter, uh led, led our devoand talked a lot about um, like
he was in Hebrews 10 and 11 alittle bit, and just talking
about how we gravitate toHebrews chapter 11, and this
(19:43):
list of people that are, justyou know, did incredible and
awesome things and they werescumbags.
You know like um, but and andjust you know, did incredible
and awesome things and they werescumbags you know, but and and
just the call in that isfaithfulness, right, um, but
anyway it's fun.
It's just funny that you bringthat up, cause it's my second
(20:05):
time hearing it today.
It's almost like God wantswants me to do something with
that.
Um, anyway, thanks for sharingthat with us.
But, yeah, I agree with you athousand percent, though I mean
cynicism.
It's not cool to be a cynic.
Lane Moss says that all thetime.
Cynicism isn't cool.
(20:26):
Um, cynicism isn't cool, andthat's such a great point that
no one wins when you walk into aroom and you're like I would do
this different.
I would do this different, Iwould do this different.
I could give that sermon better.
I could, you know, fill in theblank with, with whatever thing
it is.
Um, yeah, lot, lots of chew onthere, cause I know you and I
(20:47):
are not the only two people, um,who, who struggle with that.
So, um, anyway, let's talkabout youth ministry a little
bit.
Uh, that was very heavy.
Uh, you are, you are, you'vebeen a youth pastor a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, A while.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, how long now.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Let's see.
I started a part-time youthministry in 2011.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Sweet.
Okay, so let's call it 13 years.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Let's call it that.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's all right with you, lucky number 13.
Can't wait to see what happens.
You're a community Christian inFort Scott great church.
A lot of wonderful people havecoming out.
Come out of that church, um andand yeah, I just I've never
been.
It's one of those churches.
It's really cool Cause it'slike I've never been to
(21:41):
community Christian in FortScott.
But, um, I know of its legacyand that's just a really cool
thing.
But you went there expecting notto be the youth pastor, right,
and I just want to kind of knowthat.
And now you are a youth pastoragain.
So I kind of want to hear thatwhole story, that journey for
you.
I don't even know if I knowwhat job you thought you were
(22:04):
walking into when you movedthere.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Sure, we'll see if I know.
Yeah, so my wife and I we werein Dallas, texas, and as a youth
minister at Valley ViewChristian Church in Dallas and
we were.
It was about four and a halfyears in and I just had felt the
(22:31):
Lord stirring in my heart andvery unironically, I guess I
would say, we were on the wayhome.
So we've had family that livehere in Fort Scott.
My wife's aunt and uncle arehere and I was on my way home
from preaching a wedding here.
(22:51):
We were driving back to Dallasand my wife and I just started
to have this conversation and Ihad been preaching a little bit
more in just different contextsand some outside opportunities,
but then just more in our churchtoo, and I was like man, I know
, like ultimately I know likeGod's calling me to use that
gifting of preaching.
Ultimately I know God's callingme to use that gifting of
preaching.
And so we just started to havethat conversation on the way
(23:13):
home from Fort Scott and so webegan to pray about some
different opportunities andthere are some different things
that kind of landed in our lapto think about and pray through,
and one of those was, a fewmonths later I got a call from
our lead guy here and just saidhey, I need to hire someone.
I don't know for what, I don'tknow.
(23:35):
I don't really know what I'mhiring yet, but he just said
you're my first call to see ifthat was even something you'd be
interested in.
And just for the viewers at home, we're living in the Dallas
Metroplex population about 8million people.
Fort Scott is about 8,000people.
(23:56):
There's, no, you know, all ofour creature comforts.
There was a very sweet windowof our life while we were in
(24:17):
Dallas, where my wife is a nurseand so she was working nights.
We don't have any children atthis time and MoviePass had just
come out.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Oh, what a glorious summer.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And so I had a MoviePass with my best friend
there, josh, and uh, and so didhe, and, like, we were going to
three or four movies a week, yes, at super nice theaters, and
that like, and so there's not,there's not a nice movie theater
, like, just like anything youcould think of.
It's like we don't haveamenities, right, um, and so,
(24:48):
just from like that standpoint,I was like, no, I think, I think
I'm good, um, and literally uh,so I hung up the phone and and
took some students on a ski tripand this is early 2020, um, and
, and so I.
There was something about it,though, that I couldn't escape
(25:11):
thinking about, and so we juststarted to pray about it some
more, and this is one of thosethings where it's like, okay, I
want to.
Ultimately, I just want to bein God's will, right, ultimately
, I want to be in the place thatGod's moving, because if I'm
not in that place that he'smoving, then that's the worst
(25:37):
place to be.
Right, I don't want to go basedon my wants, I want to go based
on his will, and so we juststarted to pray about it some
more, but still just like really, really wrestling with is this
right?
And sort of.
In that time the job descriptionbegan to take place the role of
associate minister, and thatwas, if you know anything about
(25:59):
the church world, that's anall-encompassing title, a
catch-all Preach sometimes andhelp with, like I do a lot with
our communications team now and,um, at the time it was, it was
leading worship like half thetime, which is, uh, is like in
(26:20):
my toolbox, but not somethingthat I, like, am passionate
about doing, right, like I enjoydoing it here and there, but
it's not, it's not the thingthat gets me up in the morning
and so.
But there were just like it waskind of this smorgasbord of
different responsibilities hereat this church that kind of made
their way onto a jobdescription.
And so we were again.
We were praying through it,considering it, talking to some
(26:42):
wise people, and, and I I wokeup at three or four in the
morning one night.
This is, this is early Februaryof 2020.
And I was praying.
God woke me up to pray is theonly way I know how to say it
and I was just like God.
I don't know what to do, Idon't know even how to weigh
(27:03):
this decision, I don't know howto think through this, and so I
just like this is like one ofthose delirious middle of the
night moments and I was justlike God, would you give my wife
a dream about where we'reliving a year from now?
Would you give my wife a dreamabout where we're living a year
from now?
There was an opportunity herein Fort Scott.
There was something else thatwas on our radar a little bit,
(27:24):
and then there was like maybe westay in Dallas, and so we wake
up early the next morning.
It was a Sunday morning.
We were both on a worship teamthat morning at our church, and
so she woke up and the firstthing out of her mouth was I had
a crazy dream last night.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And you're like what was it?
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Do tell.
And I'm like, at this point I'mnot, you know, I'm not giving
any hints or clues and she'sjust like we were.
We were at my uncle's church inFort Scott and I had a baby and
we were sitting on the back rowof the church and the baby
wouldn't be quiet and it wasjust really weird.
I was like, okay, forget allthe other details.
Where, where were we?
And she's like we were in FortScott, and I said this is going
(28:08):
to sound crazy, but last nightGod woke me up to pray and I
just prayed that he would giveyou a dream about where we're
living a year from now.
Um, and I think this is Godtelling us to move to Fort Scott
, and, and ultimately it was,and, and what was crazy was what
we didn't know at the time, um,and we didn't know until after
(28:31):
we'd accepted the position andmade our plans to move, that we
were pregnant with twins, um,which is just crazy, um, and so
God was moving us to a differentlocation for a different season
of life, you know.
And so, outside of all of, likethe ministry ramifications and
aspects, like, it was just rightfor our family.
My wife needed to step awayfrom full-time work and we got a
(28:56):
lot closer to family who couldhelp support in that season and
you know, we already had adaughter at that time, and so we
were going to have three veryyoung children, um, all at the
same time and and needed somedifferent space and pace to be
able to handle that, and Godprovided that.
(29:17):
So, when we moved here, um inJune of 2020, um, at that time,
the church was not meeting inperson, which was just bizarre.
So I started like my firstresponsibilities were, uh,
preparing our uh we call themour digital worship experiences.
(29:37):
Like we weren't a livestreaming church, and so, um, we
, we were doing that.
So I was like my firstintroduction to the church was
through video, um, and then Iwas preaching sermons to a
camera for people that I reallyhad never met, which was just
bizarre.
And then, so we, we came backto in-person worship later that
(30:02):
year and then, at that time, the, the youth pastor, who was on
staff when I was hired, had letus know that he was taking a
different position, um, atanother church, and, and so we
just started to like thinkthrough what, what are the
options here?
Um, first of all, hiring ayouth pastor is just hard Right.
(30:27):
And and since I had stepped away, I just felt like, man, I miss
that.
I was out of the youth ministrygame a little bit.
I still love to be aroundstudents.
My mind, I'm just a dreamer,I'm an ideas person and I
couldn't stop thinking of ideasfor youth ministry or things
(30:47):
that I would do.
And what I had planned to dowas just to share those, like to
give those over to the guy hereand just say, hey, what if this
, and how can I help here andcan I be a part of helping serve
your ministry in this way?
And ultimately, god had beengiving me those things because
we were going to shuffle kind ofour staff deck and reorder some
(31:08):
things.
Shuffle kind of our staff deckand and reorder some things.
Um, my brother was on staff, uh,with me in Dallas and just he
and his wife knew it was timefor them to step away as well.
They moved here, uh, shortlyafter we did, about six months
after we did, um, without muchof a plan, to be honest.
And then, uh, but he's, he'sbeen a worship leader for for 15
(31:31):
years, so he's, uh, he's been apastor for a long time and and
so as, as these doors wereopening, it became very clear
like here's what God was doing,here's how he was moving these
pieces in a way that made sense,in a way that was healthy and
good.
And and so he's.
He's our part-time, uh, worshipminister now, um, and I'm I'm
(31:53):
doing the youth ministry thingwith, with some of those
associate responsibilitieswrapped up into that.
But there's the, there's theshort story long on how all that
came together.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
When you moved for the associate minister role, did
you feel like you were closingthe book on youth ministry, like
in your mind?
Was it like, all right, I'msaying goodbye to this part of
myself and probably for the restof my life I'm going to be
doing a different thing.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, I mean those thoughts were, I mean definitely
in my mind.
The other things we werethinking about is like full-time
preaching ministry, like go bethe lead guy somewhere else, and
so my mind was calibratedtowards like okay, I'm going to
be in the adult world, I'm goingto be preaching and working,
(32:43):
you know, and you know, kind ofhands-on in our adult
discipleship ministries andthose kinds of things.
So, yeah, I mean, there wassome of that.
Even to the point where I wasgetting rid of costumes and Nerf
guns and stuff in our move.
We're like I'm never going touse this again.
And now there's a box ofPop-Tarts back here and I got a
closet full of Nerf guns andwhatever.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
All the things you need Right.
So, psychologically, what ifthere might not have been?
I don't know but, like, whathurdles were there to going back
, Like after you've already madethe shift in your mind?
It's like loved youth ministry.
That was so great, Uh, reallyfruitful time in my life.
(33:23):
But I'm looking forward and Ithink that God has something
different for me as I, as I headdown the road.
So what was it like for you toto use a word you used
recalibrate again back intostudent ministry space?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, I guess, because
my, I would almost say it ifthe flow happened the other way,
like I felt like I was steppingout and then I just began to
notice like I feel drunk, like Ifeel drawn into youth ministry
(34:04):
again.
I don't, I don't know how toexplain it other than that yeah,
um, and so at the time when our, when our current guy came to
us and said, hey, I'm, I'mstepping away, like immediately,
I was like, wait a second, god,like what, what is this?
Um, and and so I think, and,and so I think, you know, I
(34:33):
think, no matter what, it'sreally it's really healthy to
step away, for, you know, if youcan get away for a week or you
can take a weekend or whatever,I got six months to just step
out and be like, okay, catch mybreath.
There's some really really hardseasons in in Dallas.
There's some crazy stuff thathappened.
There's some stuff we had towalk through with students or
adult leaders or whatever, andjust like from an emotional toll
and people who are listening tothis like something popped into
(34:54):
your head, I get it.
You heard me say that Like youget it, to be able to just take
a step back for a minute andthink and dream a little bit and
pray and realize like, oh,god's calling me back into this
was just so good.
And so when I stepped back in,I had all kinds of ideas, all
kinds of things I was fired upabout.
(35:16):
Now, what was really hard andthis is like I don't know how
much of this territory we wantto get into, but there were,
there are, a lot of people,especially in a small town, who
have very specific ideas of howthings should go.
Yeah, and so any kind ofdisruption, even if it's
(35:37):
ultimately positive, is justreally tough territory.
Um, the guy before me wasbeloved, just as like a pastor.
He was great with students,being with them, encouraging
them.
He had a great pastoralpresence.
(35:58):
And I'll be honest, brad, apastoral presence is not my
default nature.
I am.
I think God's gifted me as aleader and a communicator.
Yeah, I'm growing, you know.
I think all of us are called topastor who are in ministry, and
so I'm growing in my pastoralrole.
(36:19):
But it's not my default natureto just sit with people in their
pain.
I hate that idea actually.
And so my ideas to make shiftswere met with resistance, just
because I wasn't the guy beforeme, and that's true for all of
us who have stepped into newroles and seats.
And so there was a Getting somethings off the ground or making
(36:43):
some changes first metstripping away some of the
things that had just existed.
Even to like the youth ministrywas still called for 12
students, which was not even theguy before me's idea or the guy
(37:05):
before him.
It was four youth pastors agohad come up with this idea.
It's a very early 2000sapproach.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
We all knew when that name was adopted.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Right, yeah, and so it's just, you know.
And also there's some historyin our church that isn't good,
especially in the youth ministryworld, and I just immediately
was like we've got to distanceourselves from that.
We've got to get away frompeople see that logo or hear
that term and not all of theconnotations are good, and so we
(37:37):
need to distance ourselves fromthat.
And so we made, like a I don'tlike term, a whole lot, but like
we made, we made a brand shift,um, to to get away from some of
that baggage and to reinventthe idea.
There was also some stuff where, like man, that coming out of
covid, there hadn't been a lotof church life in general, uh,
(38:00):
you know, no, no, gathering, no,uh, development, no, uh,
development of new, uh leadersor volunteers or anything like
that.
And so they're.
Just, there was not a whole lotof uh, a youth ministry
skeleton.
To begin with.
Everyone thought the one thathad existed would come right
back into play and I just feltlike God was calling us to do
something different.
(38:20):
Um, and it down to, like youknow, at the time there was that
that I had jumped in.
There was four other adults whoare participating in youth
ministry.
Um, and I was like man this ifI'm going to do anything, it's
going to be getting way moreadults in our church involved in
this, and so now we have 24.
(38:43):
That's great, and it's likethat has been the thing I felt.
More than anything that God wascalling me to do is to develop
other people.
I mean, this is Ephesians 4.
This is what I think my job is.
It's the work of the ministerto empower and equip the saints
to do the work of ministry.
Ultimately, what I want to betrue is I could die tomorrow,
(39:04):
and everything that's going tohappen tonight can happen next
week, because people areempowered to do it.
They all know how to lead andto pastor their group of 10 or
12 students that they meet withevery night, and so there was a
lot of resistance at first, andthen some of these things began
to find their footing, and nowthere's just a lot of momentum,
(39:27):
which has been really cool tosee how.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
God's worked through all of that, um, okay, however,
uh, I have taken up too much ofyour time, but I do want to ask
you this I want to have one moreconversation and I want to make
sure we have time for one moreconversation, which is how so
(39:53):
you got?
It's funny because it you'retalking about that time that you
were an associate pastor,almost like people talk about a
sabbatical even though you wereworking, Um, uh, and I think
it's really cool that you wereable to have that time.
I want to know how you are adifferent youth pastor now than
you were on the other side ofthat time.
(40:15):
You know what I mean.
How did that time like changeyou?
Um, from a philosophystandpoint, from whatever it is
like, what's different now thanwas before?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, um, I would say just in in general, not just
from that time, but but the lastfew years um, I have learned a
lot more about myself.
Um, and and some of that is,there was a time in my life
(40:49):
where I ran from God's callingin my life, um, and that
happened in a few different ways.
One is when I first went toBible college.
I said, God, I'll do the youthministry thing, love the idea of
playing video games and pizza,but I'm never going to preach,
so don't ask me to do it, don'twant to take any preaching
classes, I don't want to do that.
That scares me.
(41:11):
Then there was a season where Ileft school altogether and
thought I'm not doing this, Iwant to be a part of that.
There's been different seasonswhere it's like I've run from
God's call and in this last fewyears, especially in this move
and in that, you know, pseudosabbatical time, I've learned
who God has made me to be and II've also learned that it's okay
(41:34):
to be confident in who God'smade me to be.
You know, we taught we, wetalked about this or we started
this conversation talking aboutinsecurity.
Yeah, and there's a differencebetween insecurity and humility.
Right Of insecurity would say,ooh, I don't know if I could do
that, and ultimately what you'resaying is, um, I don't trust
(41:56):
God to do that through me.
Um, humility says, um, I am not, but I know I am right To
borrow the phrase from LouisGiglio like, no, I can't do this
, but I know the God who can dothis if I'm just willing to put
myself in his hands.
And so I would say that seasonof stepping out of youth
(42:17):
ministry was just a process toreflect and to ask some
clarifying questions of who hasGod made me to be?
And then what I realized is whatGod has gifted me to do should
be a language that speaks in anycontext, whether I'm an
associate, whether I'm a youthminister, whether I'm doing, you
know, serving the ministry ofCIY in some capacity.
(42:40):
God's equipped me to do somespecific things, and, you know,
one of the things that AndyStanley says is only do what
only you can do.
And I wanted to just doubledown on my strengths, which I
think is leadership, developmentand communication.
And so what I stepped back intoyouth ministry thinking more
(43:01):
about was again how do I developand equip other adults to do
the work of youth ministry?
I loved the late night nerfbattles at church, right.
I love hanging out withstudents, having them over to
watch a movie or playing videogames or whatever like all just
(43:24):
the fun stuff.
Those are great, but ultimatelythose are not needle movers.
What has moved the needle iswhen I can help another adult
see the way God has gifted them,to believe that God's gifted
them, to use that to servestudents and then to watch
students be served in that, andthat has done more in terms of
(43:48):
building momentum in ministrythan anything else.
So what I believe my job is Itry to be as pastoral and
personal with students as I canbe.
I want to give them high fives,I want to ask them questions, I
want to engage with them, Iwant them to feel like I know
them and care about them becauseI, because I do.
But more than that, I want myadult leaders to walk in the
(44:12):
room embodying that same kind ofpresence and that and that
creates a culture that is is notreplicable otherwise.
And and so in that season Ilearned a lot about leadership.
I read a lot more aboutleadership and and personal
growth and development, and thenI just tried to attack youth
(44:34):
ministry in that idea of man.
I want to build leaders um whocan leverage their lives to
serve students and and growGod's kingdom in the process.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, I love that you tied it back to the
conversation we were havingearlier.
But the conversation we werehaving earlier, I think one of
the best things you said wasthat question that you encourage
people to pose to themselves,like who wins, who wins?
if you're grumpy, who wins ifyou're cynical?
A lot of youth pastors, a lotof people who are listening to
(45:10):
this, will not have the luxuryof being able to step away from
youth ministry for six monthsand then come back in.
So, from the perspective thatyou've gained, you know what
questions do you feel like youthpastors should be asking
themselves in order to be ableto see kind of the benefit of
what you've been able to see,but without the luxury of being
(45:32):
able to kind of walk that sameroad?
Because, a lot of us can't.
You know what I mean, and Idon't think you even chose that
path, but you were beingfaithful to God in that, and
that's.
You've seen really cool fruitfrom that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, what questions I would say.
The first one is this what hasGod made you to do?
Now, we all have like we're allyouth ministers, right, but
there's something God has madeyou to do.
What is the thing only you cando?
It's probably not a job titleright, like so, double down on
(46:10):
your strengths, whatever thosethings are, and then delegate
your weakness.
That's, that's the thing that Ilearned.
Um, I have a lot of weaknesses.
I'm not I.
I am a.
I'm a direction person.
I'm not a details person.
I don't.
I don't know if I'm a, if I'm aMicrosoft, uh, application, I'm
(46:30):
a, I'm a document.
I'm not a spreadsheet I like,and so what is the thing that
God's made you to do?
And then, how do you delegateyour weakness?
Um, use your strength to servethe church.
The second thing I would say iswhat?
(46:51):
No, who is in your church rightnow, who should be your partner
in ministry, who you've not yetbuilt a bridge with yet?
And so there's a lot of thetemptation in youth ministry is
to roll out of bed and do itright, like I think almost all
(47:13):
of us listening right now it's aWednesday that we're recording
this.
We could probably roll out ofbed, pull something out of our
rear end and do a youth groupnight on a Wednesday night, and
kids would have fun and and theythey might even, you know,
respond to Jesus and and andthat's, that's awesome.
(47:33):
But what if you began to walkinto your church on a Sunday
morning and ask God who in thisroom can help serve students in
ways that I can't and who wouldactually be served by stepping
into this ministry with me.
Like there's two sides of thesame coin.
(47:54):
Students are going to win whenother adults in your church step
into their lives, but adultsare going to win as they step
into the lives of students.
There's something that God doesin us, as he works through us,
that grows the entire church,and so I think those are the two
questions, right.
What has God made you to do?
(48:15):
And then, who has God put inyour path that you need to be
tapping them on the shoulder andsaying, hey, I see this in you
and I think this is reallyimportant.
This is a hill I will die on.
This is my soapbox.
Right, that whenever you wantpeople to be involved in
something, you don't get up onstage and broadcast it.
Hey, I need four people with apulse to come throw dodgeballs
(48:39):
at kids.
We think that sounds like a fun, good announcement and anybody
can do it.
Don't do that.
Walk up to somebody and say,man, I've seen the way that you
lead your family.
We need better leadership inour youth group.
I need a man who has the abilityto not be impressive but to
make an impression on young men,and I see that in you.
(49:02):
Would you come serve students?
I don't need you to do anythingdifferent than just be you.
Come make an impression onyoung men, and I see that in you
.
Would you come serve students?
I don't need you to do anythingdifferent than just be you Come
make an impression on the youngmen that gather with us every
Wednesday night.
People respond to that kind ofcall when you identify the thing
in them that God's given themand say this is how you steward
it for the benefit of our churchand the kingdom.
(49:22):
Yeah, I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That's great, man.
I can see people askingthemselves those questions and
answering those questions andfeeling a sense of a revitalized
passion for ministry.
Just, I mean there's so muchfreedom in answering those
questions.
Just I mean there's so muchfreedom in in answering those
(49:47):
questions, um, there's so muchlike ego that you can let go of,
there's so much self that youcan let go of when you're
compensating for your weaknesses, when you're delegating to
other people, when you'reinviting other people into, into
partnership in your ministry.
And I just, yeah, I felt asense of like rest and peace as
you were saying some of thosethings, and I hope other people
(50:09):
did too, and I'm super gratefulfor you, super grateful for your
ministry out there, andthankful that you were able to
be here and spend some time withus today.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, thanks, brad.
I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
I said this to Joel off mic and I'm going to say it
to you guys now.
That was kind of a hardconversation for me because I
relate to so much of what Joelwas saying.
I know that kind of a hardconversation for me, um, because
I relate to so much of whatJoel was saying.
I know that kind of inferioritycomplex.
I know that can lead to us, um,kind of falling into that
comparison trap.
I can know that that can leadto us, uh, like internally, kind
(51:00):
of stacking ourselves upagainst other people in our
lives and that's not healthy,it's not good, it's not from
Christ at all in any way.
And I am so, so grateful thatJoel was able to kind of speak
that truth into my life today.
I hope that that was good foryou to hear as well.
(51:22):
I am going to read our blessingover life today.
I hope that that was good foryou to hear as well.
I am going to read our blessingover you today.
May God show you grace andbless you.
May he make his face shine onyou.
May you experience the love ofChrist, through whom God gives
you fullness of life.
May you be strengthened by hispower.
May Christ himself make hishome in your heart, that you
(51:43):
would be full of his love andgrace and that those you serve
would see Jesus in you.
Today's episode was produced byMichael Hester, lauren Bryan and
myself.
Huge thank you to Joel forbeing here, for being vulnerable
, for being willing to sharewith us about some tough things,
and thank you also for tuningin and listening If you liked
(52:07):
what you heard.
Be sure to subscribe to be onthe event.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, we're going to be back one
last time for season three intwo weeks, so be sure not to
miss that.
In the meantime, you can reachout to us on the CYY community
Facebook group or by email atpodcastcyycom.
See you next time, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!