January 25, 2022 • 44 mins
Today on the podcast we talk with Loshni Manikam, originally hailing from Durban in South Africa, and now residing in sunny Southland.
Loshni speaks to us about the courage it takes to move halfway around the world and then move cross country, with a one-year-old and a three-year-old in tow.
Loshni discusses both the fulfilling and frustrating aspects of motherhood, as well as finding your own identity. Her passion is now bringing out the best in rural women and her working days are spent travelling around New Zealand activating the next generation of leaders.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to the Black Keels and Tractor Wheel's podcast, where
we are sharing stories from a range of women from
around New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For nearly a century, Rural Women New Zealand has been
dedicated to strengthening and supporting women and children to become
empowered members of their communities.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
We hope that by hearing these stories from inspiring women
all around the country, you'll feel inspired yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're your hosts, Emma Higgins and Claire Williamson, and we'd
love for you to join and subscribe to our podcast
so you don't miss our rural stories.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Today on the podcast, we talk with Loshnie Mannechem Originally
hailing from Durban and South Africa and now residing in
sunny Southland.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Loshne speaks to us about the courage it takes to
move halfway around the world and then move cross country.
We're a one year old and three year old in toe.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Loshne discusses both the fulfilling and frustrating aspects of motherhood
as well us finding your own identity.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Her passion is now bringing out the best in rural woman,
and her working days are spent traveling around New Zealand
activating the next generation of leaders.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
First question that we crack into is just so, what
we're trying to do here is just understand more about
you as a person.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
We'd love to know your journey.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You obviously have such a quite a profile now in
the rural space, particularly in the dairy space, so we'd
love to know a little bit more about you, Loshny.
So the first question that we generally throw to a
wonderful guest is have you always lived rurally? So obviously
you're very much in the rural space now you're big
(01:41):
in the dairy world. But tell us a little bit
about what your experiences were growing up.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
So I definitely did not grow up rurally. I grew
up in Durban, the third largest city in South Africa,
you know, on the coast. Had no real connection to
rural except we had some distant relatives that we'd visit
during the holidays, more horticulture rather than you know, stock,
and I love visiting our you know, farming relatives. It
(02:07):
was always exciting to go there. But no, I grew
up in a suburb outside the biggest city, in the
third biggest city in South Africa, and I was very
much a tomboy I've got an older sister and a
younger sister, So I was the son my dad never had,
and I didn't. I hated the idea of, you know,
hanging around in the kitchen and learning from my mother.
So I was always out there with my dad and
(02:27):
you know, we'd go fishing and things like that. So
I'm yeah, very much that tomboy, and I think that
has probably stayed with me for most of my life.
You know, that's a keep out of who I am.
I'm not a girly girl. I've embraced that later in life.
I enjoy that, but yeah, not who I was growing up.
You know, I did well at school. I was a
good girl. I was a very good girl growing up
(02:49):
in a conservative Indian community. It takes a lot of
courage not to be a good girl, because you know,
it's a very it's a sort of ther you know, tribe.
Raised as a child kind of intell the whole village,
which is good in lots of ways because you always
have adults that will love you and nurture you. But
it's also scary because you can't do anything wrong. You
can't walk down the streets, you know, of the big
(03:11):
cities and hold a boy's hand because someone will see
you and someone will tell your mother. And so yeah,
very conservative, sort of traditional upbringing. My parents were very
keen on making sure all three of their girls were educated, so,
you know, very keen on getting us through UNI. So
that's why I did my law degree. And my father
was a lawyer already. So then, you know, at the
(03:32):
end of school at eighteen, I had no idea what
I wanted to do and what I wanted to be.
And you know, you get because if you do well
enough at school, you do get steered towards some cliched careers,
you know, like do you want to be a lawyer,
Do you want to be a teacher, Do you want
to be a doctor. I wasn't smart enough. No one
tried to steer me towards being a doctor. So the
other career is that's what they tried to steer you towards.
(03:53):
And for me, it came down to, look, I do
enjoy working with people. I think I knew that then,
and that's again another thing that to day throughout my life.
And I knew that with law that at least there'd
be different clientele and different cases. There'd be some variety.
I already knew that I would get bored with repetition.
I'm just not that kind of person. Some people are,
that is their strength. They can do the you know,
(04:14):
the repeat work, and I can't. So law kind of
was something I wasn't passionate about. But I thought, yeah,
this takes a lot of my boxes. Plus you know,
my father was a lawyer, so I knew I had
guaranteed employment. But then, you know, after I finished school, sorry, university,
I decided I want to travel, you know, just for
about a year until I settled down to my serious
(04:36):
adult real life and you know, joined the law firm
and do all those boring adult things. And of course
that one year of traveling turned out to be two
and a half years. And during that time I met
this Kiwi farming boy from Northland, Calldonald, and he convinced
me that New Zealand was this land of milk and
honey and I should come over here. And you know,
(04:56):
when you're young, when you're in your twenties, I don't
know if you're member. Sorry, ladies are so young it's
like yesterday for you. But for the other listeners, like
when you're in your twenties, right, you think you bulletproof.
You think, of course I can emigrate to halfway across
the world, to a country I've never been to where
I know no one, and of course we're going to
(05:16):
have a lovely successful life because we can live on
love and fresh air and are so dumb. But I
look back on that now because I've got kids that
are twenty one, eighteen and fourteen, and I don't know
what I'll do if one of them said to me, Hey, mom,
falling in love with someone from halfway across the world,
see you later, you know. So that's how I ended
up being here. So I don't know if do you
(05:36):
think that's enough of that background of where I started.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's exactly what we were trying to get out, so
that that is absolutely perfect. And so just to I guess,
round out that full story. So you meet a Kiwi man.
He convinced you that New Zealand was the land of
milk and honey. He was a dairy farmer from Northland.
How did you end up in Southland?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah? Yeah, we started our you know, New Zealand. I
started my New Zealand farming journey, you know, joining Donald
on the family farm up in Northland into Corporal outside
of Dargaville, and of course I made that mistake that
lots of us do, and that I didn't marry the
oldest son, so you know, his older brother was ready
to take over the farm. And so then you know,
(06:20):
Donald and I got to explore our options and we
went from Dargaville. We had two years in Funerray on
a dairy farm there, we stepped up to farm management
and then friends of ours border farm in Southland and
they offered us a job as to go fifty to
fifty sharemoking down here, and it was a really great opportunity.
Again another theme of my life that I realized young
(06:43):
and dumb, you know, didn't know anyone in Southland, and
came down on a one year contract for sharemoking, which
is pretty unheard of, right to root up your entire
family and everything, you know, for a one year contract,
because we wanted to just have a look. See, we
wanted to see, look could we make it? Is this
something we could do? Because at the end of the day,
if it didn't, we could have gone back. So we
(07:04):
did a year and we absolutely loved farming down here
in Southland and living down here, and then we signed
on for another three year contract and then from that
fifty fifty share milking, we've moved to where we currently
are and we've been here fourteen or fifteen years on
an equity partnership and so yeah, love living in Southland.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It takes all the courage not only to move halfway
around the world, but also to like you say, up,
maybe what might have been a young family at the time,
is that right?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, we had a one year old and
a three and a half year old at the time. Yeah,
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You're an absolutely how like yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I said, either courage or just lack of critical thinking
or something, you know, just young. But sometimes I love that.
I love that we have those stages of our lives
where we actually can not over analyze everything, not think
about every worse case scenario, because now approaching fifty, right,
that's the kind of thinking that is dominant for me,
(08:06):
and I do wonder how many opportunities that have come
our way, all of us, but we are too scared
to take that step. And so there's definitely a beauty,
isn't there in that being at that stage in your
life where you honestly think you're a wee bit bulletproof
and like, what's the worst that can happen? You know,
there's some advantage to that thinking.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think that there are so many times and I'm
the same there are you know, when you make quite
big decisions, and moving across the world or even across
islands in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Is a really big decision and sometimes if you consider
them a little bit too much, you might not do it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I think, yeah, that's such a good point that
as you maybe get a little bit older, you do
a little bit less of that, but opportunity knocks for
those who are open to taking it, So that's fantastic.
You've actually had some really different roles obviously, going from
law and to dairy farming and now you're now a
(09:03):
leadership coach and very well respected in the rule sector.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So I'm interested in a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So the first one is how did you make the
leap or the transition from being a dairy farm into
and I know that you still are, but into the
leadership space. And secondly, what have you found most fulfilling
of all of the roles that you've done in your career.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Okay, if I can answer the second one first, because
that's probably a quicker and easier for me, in the
first one will probably be a bit more rambly. There's
two things I think that I've found most fulfilling about
all my roles, and one of my roles that I
wouldn't consider is being a mother, So you know, I
do think that's a key out of my identity. And
like I said, my kids are fourteen, eighteen, and twenty one,
and thank goodness, they're not in the least but interested
(09:48):
in anything mum's doing, so they won't hear this podcast
in which I say that I do consider that my
most probably my most fulfilling and frustra frustrating role is
being a mom and being having the privilege of being
able to try to shape and raise three new human beings.
You know, there are definitely moments where it's incredibly fulfilling.
There are lots and lots of weeks and months and
(10:11):
years where it's mostly frustrating. But that's one of my
most fulfilling roles. And the other part I think of
what's been more fulfilling for me in terms of my
professional roles, it's definitely the last, but the coaching bit
and the facilitation working with rural people. And if I
break that down more, because ninety nine percent of my
work is with the rural women's and that is the
most fulfilling part is when I can be part of
(10:33):
a woman's journey where either because of conversations we're having
or coaching or facilitation, she has some insight, some self awareness,
but just goes off. And when a woman has an insight,
it's just like, honestly, like I don't even need to
get paid to be doing that bit because she's just
realized something about herself. And I love being able to
witness that. That is the most wilfully thing. It's not
(10:56):
always a good thing she's become aware of. Like sometimes
quite often with a woman that I work with, the
realization the awareness can be that, oh my goodness, loss right,
I've been playing too small? And sometimes it can be
quite like it's like a punch in the guts. You know,
I'm not going to get many more clients after this podcast,
am I because I'm talking about how I punch people
in the gap. But it can be like that feeling
(11:17):
of all the air leaves you for a minute. You go, oh, no,
she's right. I have been limiting myself and so it's
not always a beautiful moment. But I do find that
fulfilling that I can be part of that because I
know what it will lead to. I know if we
don't have that awareness first, you can't really move on.
So yeah, the fulfillment for me is very much around
being part of women's journeys, the highs end, the logs.
(11:37):
I love that. Nothing could top that for me of
all the things I've done. So the first partific question
is how did I transition from farming to doing more
of the coaching and facilitation and working with women. And
it is a long story, but the short story is
that I did reach that point where that a lot
of farming women that I work with seem to reach. That.
You have the kids, you have the farm going, your
(11:59):
farming business go well, you have your partner, and then
you reach out stage or I reach out stage where wait,
hang on, is this it?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Like?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Is this all that I get to be and do
and have for the rest of my life? Get up
every day, get kids ready for school, get lunchboxes, you know,
grab everything, yell at everyone, get in the car, do
the kidney school, all that drop off, come home. You know,
you're either working a little bit on farm, or you're
doing something on computer, or you're involved in your community,
or you're running around and you get the call and
(12:26):
can you please pick up a tire from you know,
tires and wheels, and you're doing all that stuff. And
then somewhere in the middle of that day, I found
that I used to be pausing and going, wait.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Is this it?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And then I feel really guilty because I've got so much.
I've got three healthy kids, and I'm so grateful for
that most of the time, because not everyone has that privilege.
You know, I'm married to a man that loves me
and respects me and wants me to be happy again.
You can't take that for granted. We have a roof
of my head, food on the table, We live such
a good life. And sometimes I sit there think what's
(12:58):
wrong with me? Why do I want more?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Like?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Am I greedy? Am I selfish?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Like?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What's wrong with me? So I reached that kind of moment,
and now I know that I'm not alone. Now, ten
years later, I know there's so many of us that
experience some version of that, and so many of us
that are stuck in that place of I love my
family and my farming business and all my professional life,
but I want more. But then we don't know what
(13:24):
the more is, and we don't know how to go
and get the more. We don't have the support to
get the more, so we're stuck. And that's again, that's
where I have to end up with my careers. I
love helping that woman that I was back in twenty ten,
So that's sort of the it is. I had to
reach a low point, a pain point before I could
start the journey. And that's another long journey of you know,
another five or teen years of figuring out, and then
I ended up with coaching. But hopefully that kind of
(13:46):
gives you an idea of why the change.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
But that's what I want to ask you about, is
that long and winding ten year journey of how you
became a coach, because I want to know you had
that moment of is this it within that context of
having that beautiful and some would say privileged life. How
did you make that leap because it is a leap
for a lot of women who may have those self
realizations To that end, goal of doing something else, whatever
(14:13):
else is how did you make that leap? Did you
did you have mentors and champions that helped you propel
yourself forward or was it just share grit and self awareness?
Tell us about that journey that you took between that
realization and to where you are now.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Okay, So the external part of that journey, especially in
the beginning, it was very lonely. So in the beginning,
the first two or three years, there were no peers
and mentors. It was a very personal journey that I
was going through, and it was really on the outside.
What it was was a journey of discovery, so googling, researching,
trying to figure out what is it that exists that
had to fit in around my current life. I had
(14:51):
young kids and I wanted to be the primary caregiver.
It was not a role forced on me. I chose
to be a mom. And you know, Donald and I
chose our lives where he was the prime I'm rey
breadwinner and he was working very hard on farm, and
I wanted to be the primary care giver. So I
wanted to build my life around that. So flexibility, right,
and just so many things, even supporting our farming business
around carving, you kind of need to be available. So
(15:14):
there were all these barriers and probably the biggest thing
I'd say that helped me then is the mindset shift.
So that's the internal journey, is that going. Okay, I
could keep going, Oh, I really want to do something,
But where am I going to find something? I live
in hidden bush outside of in the cargo that someone
once called the ahole of the universe. Right, it was
someone famous that he had called it, Nick Jagibek, that
(15:37):
said in Chicago's like the a whole of the universe.
I'm sitting out here at hidden Bush on a dairy farm.
Where am I going to find jobs or opportunities? I'm
a mom of young children, and I support my partner
in our farming business. And I could have sat there
for a very long time, and I did, because I'm
talking about twenty ten as being the low changing point.
But it was building for a few years where I'd
(15:58):
kind of have these feelings and then I'd repressed them
and got, oh, but my life's not that bad and
carry on. Really, I had to reach a point where
I realized that I can't go on the way I am.
And what helped me to keep going with the grit,
with pushing through even though I kept coming through barriers.
Was the fact that I realized that I was turning
out to be a little bit miserable and that was
impacting the people that I loved the most in the world,
(16:20):
which were my kids and my husband. So I was
turning into what I now call angry mom and grumpy wife,
and a lot of women in workshops when I talk
about this resonated it's the light bulb and they go,
oh God, yes, she's talking about me.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
The kids can do something little and you yell at
them and you feel so bad in that instant because
they don't deserve that, you know. But it's partly because
my frustration. And so when I had that real insight
moment around oh my giddy aunt, I am turning into
an angry mom and a really grumpy wife, and I'm
hurting the people I love the most. I use that
that pain point, that embarrassment, that shame I felt in
(16:56):
that moment as my anchor on a very bumpy journey,
because it is a bumpy journey to come from exactly
where you said, you have the insight, but then how
do you take action, so I kept using that as
my why. Like, we learn a lot about having a
very anchoring why, and then the what and the how
can come. When I work with women and I keep
in mind them, you need to have a very compelling
(17:16):
why you want to go on this journey. It's not
enough to say, oh, I want more? Is this it?
You have to have really compelling why. And when I
work with them again, I talked to them about the
fact that your why in the beginning should be anchored
in pain. It's ugly. We don't want to do it.
We want to think about all the benefits. It's like
say you want to lose weight, right, and then you
think about, ooh, then I could fit into that, you know,
(17:38):
those that lovely dress that I want to wear, or
I can be more active. You think about all the
good stuff. But in the beginning, with human behavior, especially
with things that you want to change and that are
hard to change, it's not enough to have the vision,
the beautiful, exciting vision. You need to come from a
place of pain, because in the beginning, pain propels you
on the journey, and then absolutely, at some point a
(18:00):
third of the way halfway through, you are going to
be drawn by the vision. But most of us start
of going, Okay, I want to do more, I need
to do more. What am I going to do more?
And you think about the vision and we don't like
to think about the pain of where we're at. But
for me, what helped was really anchoring the fact that
I was hurting the people I loved and I kept
saying that to myself and I couldn't live with myself
with that. So that's what made me go and research
(18:22):
this thing called coaching because I knew nothing about coaching
in my mind, coaching because maybe this is two thousand
and ten, two thousand and eleven. By the time I
finally did my coach training, it took me eighteen months
to work up the courage and the guards to sign
up for a program. So in twenty twelve was when
I did my coaching training. So there's two years from
the breaking point to research and doing and throwing and
doubting myself. But kept anchoring myself with I can't keep
(18:45):
doing this. I have to change. It's not like, oh
can I change how in all those kinds of things.
So I could ramble on forever, but I wonder maybe
I should just pause mee.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I actually love that. I mean a lot of the
time when you talk about people's mentors and champions moving
through their career and your professional life, I suppose it
has been a little bit different to a lot of
others in I think, gosh, talking about the why and
then it needs to be anchored in a pain point,
jeaper is that is that state, And it's true because
(19:17):
people are more motivated to fix the pain than they
are to get the pleasure. Right.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
So, and the other thing about the pain point where
the rural women is that I have found that the
women I work with are so kind, are so caring,
are so nurturing. The reason why women are not thriving
that I find it's not because we're bad at thriving.
It's not because we're dumb. It's not because we don't
know how. It's because we don't know how to say no.
(19:42):
We are so nurturing to we give so much to
our communities, to our farming teams, to our partners, to
our children, to our parents. They're always doing and doing
and doing. And so I've learned this trick that if
I want to help a woman to actually change, I will,
you know, I always say hashtag sorry not sorry, But
I will make it about her impact on the people
(20:05):
she loves the most, and I will say, Okay, cool,
you're going to forget your dreams, You're going to not
look after yourself, call basic self care because you're too
busy doing all the stuff for your kids. How are
you turning up in the lives of the people you
love the most? And with the women. The only way
I can get there to actually start taking steps is
not just about the pain. But the pain's got to
(20:27):
be about someone else. Because we will put our pain,
we will wear there till the day we die. We'll
go to the grave with it. But if I can
make you feel guilty about the pain you're causing to
the people you love, then and only then, do I
find that most women will start going Okay, I actually
have to change something in my life because I won't
(20:47):
be that for the people I love. But I'm okay
with that being my life until my kids are older,
until we get a bigger farm, until we get more staff,
until there's more time for me. We're willing to give
up a decade of our lives, ten years, fifty twenty.
We're willing to wait until and they can fill in
the blank dot dot dot. But when I say saying, okay,
but who are you being during that time? Not for you?
(21:08):
Because I have found painfully through coaching it doesn't work.
I can you know, they get it in their head.
They understand the importance of self care and drinking water
and basic stuff. But most of the women, high flying
women that I coach, will say, why is it that
my self care is the first thing to go out
the window as soon as someone else needs me? Life
(21:29):
gets are busy everything, We just chuck that out the
window because we don't prioritize ourselves high now, So, knowing
that and openly and with their permission, I will make
it about other people in their life because that's the
only way I can help women take action. Sad but
effective hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And I think the other part of it as well
is that you can then elevate yourself to be a
way better version of yourself for those people around you
as well, and that actually elevates their experience of their.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Life with you.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think I think it's you know, it's a
win win both ways in my view, just a slightly
different kind of space. Now you've talked a lot about
the rural communities that you work with, particularly the women,
and I think also you have grown a really neat
community around you on social media, in media, in the
(22:24):
ebook that you've written, which we might talk a little
bit more about later, but in all of the community
spaces that you're in, what do you enjoy most about
living rurally, about being involved with rural people, about obviously
being a big part of them improving their lives. What
are the really big things for you that you love
(22:44):
in that space.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I suppose we probably touched on it a little bit already,
but the two key things would be one that I've
been blown away because I've come in from an urban perspective,
and it's been a couple of decades now, right I
am agret to using a ninety ninety eight, so it's
been a while. It's half my life has been urban
and half has been rural. But because I came into
it with that fresh, outsider perspective, I've been blown away
(23:07):
by rural people in general, in the sense that I
feel like, even though the world is changing and there's
good and bad everywhere, with rural people, they're just so
hard working, so giving, so nurturing. Like even now, if
something happens to one of someone in the neighborhood, everyone
and his dog, every man and his dog, turns up
(23:27):
with something. You know, they offer a tractor, or you've
lost some calves, so they'll offer calves, or they'll turn
up with soup and everything can they'll offer a couple
of hours of work, they'll offer. It's an amazing community
spirit that. Yes, I know the world's modernizing and maybe
we are losing, but that has really blown me away
(23:47):
about how caring and nurturing rural people are. Men and women,
even our rural men that like to pretend like that
quite tough, but you know, you see a real man
standing out there when he's you know, experiencing any sort
of weather, you know, disasters, if there's floods or there's droughts,
and they you see a man close to breaking when
he knows he can't fully feed his animals. You know,
(24:09):
they care so much about our stock, about our land,
about our fellow people. The thing, the flip side of
that is we still don't know how to care for ourselves.
If only we could turn some of that outward, carring
and nurturing a little bit inward. And that's why I'll
never be out of a job. Unfortunately, you know, I
will never be out of a job because it's such
(24:30):
a journey to learn to look after yourself the way
the rural community looks after everything around them. And the
other thing I love about living rurally is I do
love the access to nature. Like whether I'm sitting in
my lounge and like, but every time I look out
of my window, there's trees and there's you know, it's
we're not living in a city, you know, we're not
living in a concrete jungle. And the noise is always
(24:53):
birds singing in my garden or just being able to
stand on grass, you know, just or driving home, you know,
from look out to home and the landscape and the
sun setting and there's a you know, lambs over spring
bouncing around things that we take for granted. But I
think again, because I've had that privilege of coming in
from the outside, it still blows me away. You know,
(25:15):
you drive and I can I can see deer on
my way home, sheep cows, it's spread taking. It really
is beautiful. So it is the access to nature, and
I have to full disclosure admit that I'm I'm the
kind of person who loves indoors most of the time,
so I'm not out there, you know, making the most
of nature. But in some ways that's why I'm more
grateful for it, because I don't have to do a
(25:35):
lot to actually immerse myself and appreciate and you know,
just reap the bounties of nature.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
That's awesome, And you're absolutely right. I think the amazingness
of the outdoors and just enjoying those little things is
just so so powerful. Question, how do we take care
of ourselves? You mentioned that that is you know, that
is almost the Achilles heel of the rural community in
the sense that we're always looking after others and not ourselves.
And I know that you wrote a book on taking
(26:04):
time to thrive. What is the best way that you
can communicate some I guess some tips and tricks to
our listeners out there who might be struggling with actually
looking after themselves.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Oh that's a good question, and you know, like everyone's
so different, right, so there are no shortcuts. There's no
easy answer, And to be honest, I think all the
knowledge about looking after ourselves and what we need to
do is out there and is very easily accessible. There's
so many people have done a lot of good work
in the last ten years, fifteen, twenty years to bring
all that knowledge right at our fingertips. So many of
(26:36):
us know the five ways to well being. So what
I have found is that it's not that we don't
know what to do, you know, just look after ourselves.
And it's not that we don't know that we are
struggling a little bit. You know a lot of women
that we've got the self awareness now that I can't
keep going like this, I'm doing too much. I'm heading
to burn out. A lot of women that I'm talking
to right now, and the lead up to Christmas tie
(27:00):
and stressed and burnt out. So it's not that we
don't know where we are is unsustainable, And it's not
that we don't know what to do. It's the gap
in between what are our barriers to taking action and
what I have found with my work, And you know,
I'm sorry that I'm not giving you practical examples. I'm
giving you sort of a more high level theory of it.
(27:20):
But what I found with my work is that the
things that stop women from taking care of themselves is
that we don't value ourselves highly enough. And that's one
of those moments where you can feel like it's a
punch to the guys because our initial reaction is, oh, yes,
I do you know, Yes, I am, I do. Look,
I do think I'm important and you know I've done that,
and we do have that initial reaction. But it's your
(27:43):
actually speak louder than words. So if you do value yourself,
are you doing some of the basic things. Are you
drinking enough water every day? Because one of my mandtrums
to women is that you cannot change the world if
you are not hydrated. We've got these big goals, these
big dreams you want to chieve, you so much, but
our mind, bodies, and souls can't actually function the way
(28:05):
they're need to function if we're not hydrated. And we
forget to drink water. Water, which is something that you
don't need to go out to a gym to do.
You don't need to buy equipment, you don't need to
You literally can open a tap in New Zealand and
drink water. Most of us have access to water the
whole day, and we don't do that. So I don't
want to take it too big and broad. I think
(28:26):
when you ask me what can people do? Start small?
I would suggest that you start very, very small, and
you make sure you do the basic things. Ask yourself.
The question that I like to ask women is how
do you feel about the amount of water you're drinking
every day? Are you feeling like you're okay or not?
(28:47):
Just asking yourself that question. How do you feel about
the movement you're doing every day? Do you feel like
you're okay, you're not okay? Scale of one to ten.
I like to do the scale of one to ten,
So on a scale of one to ten, how are
you feeling about how much work your drinking on a
scale of want it? And how do you feel about
the movement? How do you feel about the amount or
the quality of sleep you're getting? How do you feel
(29:08):
about your nutrition the food you're putting into your body?
And you can start with just those four basics, because
you know, when you ask me earlier, what is what
are some tips and tools? It's for me. It's really
is always going to come back to mindset and self awareness.
You cannot change what you cannot see. You cannot change
what you cannot see. So if you can't see that
you're drinking only one glass of water every day. You're
(29:30):
never going to change it because it's not something that's
been red flagged to yourself that ooh, maybe I'm entering
two or three glasses of water a day. You can't
change it. So start with the most basic thing. And
the cool thing about that is that it sits within
your grasp. You know, you can be busy and still
try thinking and do the self awareness around how am
(29:51):
I feeling about by sleep at the moment? Am I okay, yep,
I'm good, and you carry on. But just checking in
with yourself, I think is a brilliant start. And especially
if you're feeling overwhelming stressed. I would hate to come
into your life and tell you, look, you need to
start sleeping eight hours a day. You need to start
looking after yourself because most want ago. Yeah I know, Loshnider,
(30:12):
but show me where my busy day I'm going to
suddenly go off for an hour for yoga, or I'm
going to go take time to connect with my friends
or you know it's but just start small, because it's
incredibly powerful that we yeah, we over look how powerful
it is to do the one percent every day. Yeah,
and how that will over time that changes your trajectory completely.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I find this myself. Actually, I think Emma's probably the same.
It's like this, you know, when you play that game
of gathering all the eggs into the basket and someone
can steal them out of the basket. I find well
being an overall health I suppose it's a little bit
like that because other things requirements from work, from family,
(31:00):
from friends, even just the environment that you're in. If
you're a farmer, you're living where you work, there's always
going to be these pressures and they're always stealing those
eggs out of your basket, and you have to get
them back and get them kind of staying there to
be in a really good space.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So I'm constantly battling with that.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But I think, like you say, the first step is
that self awareness of what am I doing at the moment,
and I think also being okay and not beating yourself
up that you're not doing all five or or four immediately,
because like you say, that that small change or that
taking that one percent is really important. In the rural sector,
(31:36):
our statistics are pretty sobering in terms of our mental
health challenges. How people kind of are often dealing with
really difficult parts of farming life in personal lives. You're
probably coming into contact with.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
A lot of those women.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
What is something that you would change and the rural
sector and to improve those statistics to make to help
rural people, I suppose they've lived more thriving, be thrive
and love better lives.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
I'm going to take your question and think more more
about it from a rural woman's perspective, if you don't mind,
Because and I couldn't find any relevant studies in New Zealand,
but the closest thing I could come across was an
Australian study on the well being of rural people. And
what they found was that while with rural suicide, that
rural men had higher incidents of suicide completion, but they
(32:34):
found that rural women had a higher rate of suicide ideation. So,
you know, like we deal with the fact that, yes,
our rural men are struggling and some of them will
end up, you know, actually completing on suicide attempts. But
because we can't see that rural women are struggling and
there are more women rulemen struggling that actually attempt or
(32:54):
complete on suicide, it's it's a harder thing to tackle
and So the thing I would love if I could
we have a man wand and change about our rural
sector is that I would love to make our royal
women seen, heard and acknowledged. I think what's leading to
us not valuing ourselves is that we are invisible in
our sector. I think when people think of a farmer.
And I was talking to a university lecture the other day.
(33:18):
He does NBA students, and he said he asked his
students to draw a picture of farmers, and he was
talking about how they drew this picture of you know,
farmers in flannel shirts and gum boots, and his point
was that they didn't consider that farmers run multimillion dollar
businesses and there's so many other sides to it besides
the on farm work. But my question to him was
(33:38):
did any of them draw a woman? And none of
them had, So we're literally invisible in our sector, and
you cannot value what you cannot see. So I think
that real women are not valued in our sector to
the extent our rural men are. I think roal women
are invisible, and that if we are invisible, or if
we have been labeled that traditional sort of you know,
(33:59):
you're just the far. You're just cooking, you're just cleaning,
you're just raising the kids. Yes, those are important roles,
but you get this feeling. No one ever tells you this,
but there is this culture that you're not as important
as the man who's out there every single day working
really hard on farm. And like I said, no one
has ever come up to me and told me this,
So it's not like anyone is directly doing it. But
(34:20):
I believe it's part of our culture that rural women
are not valued as much as rule men. And I
would love to help us to become more seen, heard
and acknowledged because I know that's a key part of
why we won't prioritize ourselves. That it's not external. I
don't worried about blaming anyone. I'm worried about how we
internalize that that we ourselves don't think we're that important.
(34:42):
And again, I know some of us will push back
against that, but again I will say actions speak louder
than words. If we believe that we are important and
we adding value, we will prioritize our own self care.
We will drink water until we're doing those things. I
think that it's theory to say that we've come so far.
It's not a good not come far, right, There's so
many amazing women and organizations that have done so much
(35:06):
to get us to this point. You're twenty twenty one,
where you know, I can do the things I do,
but I think that the majority of our sector is
still stuck in year. But you're not that important, you know.
And so if you're getting that message every single day
that actually what you do is not as important what
he's as he's doing, then you're never going to see
yourself as important enough to take time out for yourself
(35:27):
to go do your walk because your kids need you more, well,
the farm needs you more, or work needs you more,
or the house needs you more, and those things are
your only way of adding value, and what you're adding
doesn't feel like that much anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That's so spot on. It's spot on, and it's something
that I've been thinking about a lot because.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
In my day job, I am.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
The one presenting at a lot of functions and they
are rural functions, they are you know, dairy events, there
cross sectoral events. I'd say I present to mostly males,
and the people that ask the questions that all males,
I will very very rarely get a woman who asked
me a question, and particularly for events that are held
(36:08):
in the evening, finding one person can go who stays behind,
mainly the woman as well. So I cannot agree with
your comments enough. And I see it every day in
my own job as well.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
What will we do about it? Because I'm not about
a blame game, and I don't blame anyone for us
being where we are. It's the self awareness again, it's
if we can understand that this is where we're at.
I think the power sits with us women individually as
well as collectively. I don't think we need to wait
for the sector to change and for anyone to give
us permission if we want to be seen, heard and acknowledged,
(36:42):
if we want to show that there's value in what
I am doing in raising my three children and taking
on the primary role for that, I am doing an
incredibly important job. And if others don't see it and valuate,
it's up to me to valuate. It's up to each
of us individually to actually be speak up, show up
and be heard and feel valued. And that's how we
(37:04):
will slowly start changing culture from the bottom up. And yes,
I do think this is a cultural thing and an
institutional thing. It's a systemic thing that unfortunately, women are
not seen as having as much value in general in
the food and fiber sector, and so we need our
leadership to be doing it as well. But if we
keep waiting for that, it's I believe it's going to
(37:25):
be a very, very, very long wait. So we can
do it, you know. So I encourage people that are
listening to speak up when they go to these meetings,
you know, to be seen, to be heard, to be acknowledged.
And if you're not at that place, if you're not
one of these women that are able to go to
these events and industry staff for et cetera, then just
do it in your mind. Speak up in your mind,
(37:48):
make yourself heard in your mind, and value yourself enough
just in your household, that you will set aside, even
if it's five or ten minutes a day, to sit
down and have a hot cup of tea, because you
do deserve it by being who you are. So we
can all make a difference.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I think I love that you're absolutely right, and I
enjoy what you said about changing their culture from the
bottom up. And it's up to us as woman to
take control and to actually do something about it as
opposed for waiting for the industry to change. So thank
you some wonderful points there. And look, last question I
would like to ask you and loop right back round
(38:24):
to the start you said, I think you're approaching fifty
and perhaps the question now is okay, so what's next?
What's next? Philoshni? You've made such a radical change from
you know, where we began in our conversation about you know,
growing up in South Africa to hear where you are now.
But we really excited to hear what perhaps the next
(38:46):
twelve months might look like for you and some exciting things.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Oh I'd be excited to hear that too, because I'd
love to know what I'm doing as well. No, look,
I do it. Definitely have a couple of projects, you
know on board. I'm really excited about working with women
and horticulture because they're quite keen to support their members
and you know, create a bit of a tribe for them.
Very excited about that project. You know, very much values
aligned with living farming women, which is you know, my
(39:12):
business and what I do. But really always what it
is I think for the next little while is I
want to figure out ways to reach more women and
especially grassroots women. That's always it's probably more a ten
year outlook rather than a one year outlook. It's how
can I because you know, I do have opportunities, and
I have very privileged to have platforms like this and
(39:33):
in other platforms in my own you know, business and
all social media accounts and stuff. But I don't only
want to be sort of topped down kind of thing.
I really want to work with women that will work
with other women. I want to enable their neighborers. If
I can be involved with you know, other women all
around this country also want to do something that supports
other rural women, I'd love to support those women. Don't
(39:56):
know if I'm making sense, but yeah, really supporting enable
the enable, because I don't think it's up to me,
and I'm just one person, and I don't if you
don't want to be shoveling all around the country, and
COVID's going to be doing that. But there's so many
amazing women sitting there right now that have this little
dream or little hope that they would love to help
another group of women, but they don't have the confidence,
(40:18):
or they don't have the support and I would love
to be that confidence and support and give you that
kick up the barm and tell you, of course you can.
You can start with five women. You can, you know,
and I can help you with that. So I just
want to keep pleaching more women, especially to give them
the message that you are not alone. You're not alone.
If you're sitting there thinking, wait, is this it? What's
wrong with me? Like all these thoughts that we have
(40:40):
at one o'clock in the morning. Please trust me. I've
now worked with one hundreds of thousands of women and
now ten years later from twenty and ten and lost me.
I can tell you you're not alone because I've had those
thoughts and I keep talking to it. At the end
of my workshop, one of the most fulfilling things is
a woman comes up to me with big eyes and
grasp my hand. Goes, Oh, my giddy aunt, It's like
(41:00):
you were in my head. And then she almost scurries
out of there because she was seen. Someone saw her,
and in some ways it's powerful for her to be seen,
but it's also scary. So I really want to reach
more women to help them understand you're not alone, just
so we can talk about this stuff. And help her
understand there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with
You're not a bad mom, you're not a bad wife,
(41:21):
you're not a bad farming partner, You're not a bad anything.
If you sometimes want something for you, it's actually human nature.
So yeah, it's key. It's the discovery because I do
have a bit of an entrepreneurial sort of mindset, and
I love pivoting, and I try things, and I've done
an online cause, done the ebook, But it's I keep
trying to learn from the women themselves. How can I
(41:42):
provide this information to them in manageable, digestible, bite size,
applicable ways that they can apply in their life rather
than sitting here as an expert and trying to tell
them all these things. But if they can't actually apply
them in their life and make behavior change, then what's
the point, you know, Like, all this information that I'm
talking about exists. Nothing that I'm saying is stuff I
(42:03):
invented or came up with. It's the next part, how
do we actually help and support these women to do
those things at grassroots level.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I love the idea of coaching some a new generation
of coaches too, because that just amplifies your impact massively,
from what you can do as one woman and to
creating all these epical activated people who can go out
and activate another team people and it just gets bigger
and bigger. I think one thing that you will do
(42:35):
for any any workshop that you run, I'm sure, is
why those women with the time and space to think
about those things that they do need to do and
then it's not like, oh, I can't go and do
this thing anymore because I've sat down, I've taken the
time and I understand what it is now that I
need to I need to do to change and to
actually amplify my life and thrive. Right. So, just in closing,
(42:59):
I would love to just say a big thank you Oshani,
not only for speaking with us today, but for all
of what you.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Do for a rural woman.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I know that you've supported our organization with some events
in the past which were just fantastic. So here's a
big honoring part there from us to you. Thank you
and thank you for being so generous with your time,
with your knowledge, and with your thoughts today sharing some
really vulnerable parts of yourself and your journey. So yeah,
we really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Oh, thank you so much, Cleanie, Emma. And I appreciate
having this opportunity to talk about myself because I love
doing that. But I do would like to just you know,
clow that back to you ladies and say, you know,
this is a big part of what you know, my
mission is helping women be seen her and acknowledging you
are playing a critical part with this podcast in telling
real stories and creating a space where women like me
(43:50):
can actually be real and vulnerable. And you know, because
I did think about this podcast, and I could have
really polished answers about us stuff. People are either gonna
like you or they're gonna, you know not. And I'm
nearly fifty. One of the liberating things when I'm getting older,
it's like, oh, well so what, So thank you very
much for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I love that. That's also You're welcome and it is
so nice too just to chat and get to know you.
So thank you for your time. I've taken notes the
whole time.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Rural Women New Zealand is a community of like minded
women who are doing amazing things in their respective regions
in communities.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
This podcast celebrates the achievements successes and stories of our
rural women, which are also the foundations for our organization's
rich history.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
We want you to be part of our future story,
so please join us by clicking on the link in
the show notes, and we look forward to welcoming you
into the fold.
Welcome to the Black Keels and Tractor Wheel's podcast, where
we are sharing stories from a range of women from
around New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
For nearly a century, Rural Women New Zealand has been
dedicated to strengthening and supporting women and children to become
empowered members of their communities.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
We hope that by hearing these stories from inspiring women
all around the country, you'll feel inspired yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're your hosts, Emma Higgins and Claire Williamson, and we'd
love for you to join and subscribe to our podcast
so you don't miss our rural stories.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Today on the podcast, we talk with Loshnie Mannechem Originally
hailing from Durban and South Africa and now residing in
sunny Southland.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Loshne speaks to us about the courage it takes to
move halfway around the world and then move cross country.
We're a one year old and three year old in toe.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Loshne discusses both the fulfilling and frustrating aspects of motherhood
as well us finding your own identity.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Her passion is now bringing out the best in rural woman,
and her working days are spent traveling around New Zealand
activating the next generation of leaders.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
First question that we crack into is just so, what
we're trying to do here is just understand more about
you as a person.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
We'd love to know your journey.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You obviously have such a quite a profile now in
the rural space, particularly in the dairy space, so we'd
love to know a little bit more about you, Loshny.
So the first question that we generally throw to a
wonderful guest is have you always lived rurally? So obviously
you're very much in the rural space now you're big
(01:41):
in the dairy world. But tell us a little bit
about what your experiences were growing up.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
So I definitely did not grow up rurally. I grew
up in Durban, the third largest city in South Africa,
you know, on the coast. Had no real connection to
rural except we had some distant relatives that we'd visit
during the holidays, more horticulture rather than you know, stock,
and I love visiting our you know, farming relatives. It
(02:07):
was always exciting to go there. But no, I grew
up in a suburb outside the biggest city, in the
third biggest city in South Africa, and I was very
much a tomboy I've got an older sister and a
younger sister, So I was the son my dad never had,
and I didn't. I hated the idea of, you know,
hanging around in the kitchen and learning from my mother.
So I was always out there with my dad and
(02:27):
you know, we'd go fishing and things like that. So
I'm yeah, very much that tomboy, and I think that
has probably stayed with me for most of my life.
You know, that's a keep out of who I am.
I'm not a girly girl. I've embraced that later in life.
I enjoy that, but yeah, not who I was growing up.
You know, I did well at school. I was a
good girl. I was a very good girl growing up
(02:49):
in a conservative Indian community. It takes a lot of
courage not to be a good girl, because you know,
it's a very it's a sort of ther you know, tribe.
Raised as a child kind of intell the whole village,
which is good in lots of ways because you always
have adults that will love you and nurture you. But
it's also scary because you can't do anything wrong. You
can't walk down the streets, you know, of the big
(03:11):
cities and hold a boy's hand because someone will see
you and someone will tell your mother. And so yeah,
very conservative, sort of traditional upbringing. My parents were very
keen on making sure all three of their girls were educated, so,
you know, very keen on getting us through UNI. So
that's why I did my law degree. And my father
was a lawyer already. So then, you know, at the
(03:32):
end of school at eighteen, I had no idea what
I wanted to do and what I wanted to be.
And you know, you get because if you do well
enough at school, you do get steered towards some cliched careers,
you know, like do you want to be a lawyer,
Do you want to be a teacher, Do you want
to be a doctor. I wasn't smart enough. No one
tried to steer me towards being a doctor. So the
other career is that's what they tried to steer you towards.
(03:53):
And for me, it came down to, look, I do
enjoy working with people. I think I knew that then,
and that's again another thing that to day throughout my life.
And I knew that with law that at least there'd
be different clientele and different cases. There'd be some variety.
I already knew that I would get bored with repetition.
I'm just not that kind of person. Some people are,
that is their strength. They can do the you know,
(04:14):
the repeat work, and I can't. So law kind of
was something I wasn't passionate about. But I thought, yeah,
this takes a lot of my boxes. Plus you know,
my father was a lawyer, so I knew I had
guaranteed employment. But then, you know, after I finished school, sorry, university,
I decided I want to travel, you know, just for
about a year until I settled down to my serious
(04:36):
adult real life and you know, joined the law firm
and do all those boring adult things. And of course
that one year of traveling turned out to be two
and a half years. And during that time I met
this Kiwi farming boy from Northland, Calldonald, and he convinced
me that New Zealand was this land of milk and
honey and I should come over here. And you know,
(04:56):
when you're young, when you're in your twenties, I don't
know if you're member. Sorry, ladies are so young it's
like yesterday for you. But for the other listeners, like
when you're in your twenties, right, you think you bulletproof.
You think, of course I can emigrate to halfway across
the world, to a country I've never been to where
I know no one, and of course we're going to
(05:16):
have a lovely successful life because we can live on
love and fresh air and are so dumb. But I
look back on that now because I've got kids that
are twenty one, eighteen and fourteen, and I don't know
what I'll do if one of them said to me, Hey, mom,
falling in love with someone from halfway across the world,
see you later, you know. So that's how I ended
up being here. So I don't know if do you
(05:36):
think that's enough of that background of where I started.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's exactly what we were trying to get out, so
that that is absolutely perfect. And so just to I guess,
round out that full story. So you meet a Kiwi man.
He convinced you that New Zealand was the land of
milk and honey. He was a dairy farmer from Northland.
How did you end up in Southland?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah? Yeah, we started our you know, New Zealand. I
started my New Zealand farming journey, you know, joining Donald
on the family farm up in Northland into Corporal outside
of Dargaville, and of course I made that mistake that
lots of us do, and that I didn't marry the
oldest son, so you know, his older brother was ready
to take over the farm. And so then you know,
(06:20):
Donald and I got to explore our options and we
went from Dargaville. We had two years in Funerray on
a dairy farm there, we stepped up to farm management
and then friends of ours border farm in Southland and
they offered us a job as to go fifty to
fifty sharemoking down here, and it was a really great opportunity.
Again another theme of my life that I realized young
(06:43):
and dumb, you know, didn't know anyone in Southland, and
came down on a one year contract for sharemoking, which
is pretty unheard of, right to root up your entire
family and everything, you know, for a one year contract,
because we wanted to just have a look. See, we
wanted to see, look could we make it? Is this
something we could do? Because at the end of the day,
if it didn't, we could have gone back. So we
(07:04):
did a year and we absolutely loved farming down here
in Southland and living down here, and then we signed
on for another three year contract and then from that
fifty fifty share milking, we've moved to where we currently
are and we've been here fourteen or fifteen years on
an equity partnership and so yeah, love living in Southland.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
It takes all the courage not only to move halfway
around the world, but also to like you say, up,
maybe what might have been a young family at the time,
is that right?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, we had a one year old and
a three and a half year old at the time. Yeah,
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
You're an absolutely how like yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I said, either courage or just lack of critical thinking
or something, you know, just young. But sometimes I love that.
I love that we have those stages of our lives
where we actually can not over analyze everything, not think
about every worse case scenario, because now approaching fifty, right,
that's the kind of thinking that is dominant for me,
(08:06):
and I do wonder how many opportunities that have come
our way, all of us, but we are too scared
to take that step. And so there's definitely a beauty,
isn't there in that being at that stage in your
life where you honestly think you're a wee bit bulletproof
and like, what's the worst that can happen? You know,
there's some advantage to that thinking.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I think that there are so many times and I'm
the same there are you know, when you make quite
big decisions, and moving across the world or even across
islands in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Is a really big decision and sometimes if you consider
them a little bit too much, you might not do it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I think, yeah, that's such a good point that
as you maybe get a little bit older, you do
a little bit less of that, but opportunity knocks for
those who are open to taking it, So that's fantastic.
You've actually had some really different roles obviously, going from
law and to dairy farming and now you're now a
(09:03):
leadership coach and very well respected in the rule sector.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So I'm interested in a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So the first one is how did you make the
leap or the transition from being a dairy farm into
and I know that you still are, but into the
leadership space. And secondly, what have you found most fulfilling
of all of the roles that you've done in your career.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Okay, if I can answer the second one first, because
that's probably a quicker and easier for me, in the
first one will probably be a bit more rambly. There's
two things I think that I've found most fulfilling about
all my roles, and one of my roles that I
wouldn't consider is being a mother, So you know, I
do think that's a key out of my identity. And
like I said, my kids are fourteen, eighteen, and twenty one,
and thank goodness, they're not in the least but interested
(09:48):
in anything mum's doing, so they won't hear this podcast
in which I say that I do consider that my
most probably my most fulfilling and frustra frustrating role is
being a mom and being having the privilege of being
able to try to shape and raise three new human beings.
You know, there are definitely moments where it's incredibly fulfilling.
There are lots and lots of weeks and months and
(10:11):
years where it's mostly frustrating. But that's one of my
most fulfilling roles. And the other part I think of
what's been more fulfilling for me in terms of my
professional roles, it's definitely the last, but the coaching bit
and the facilitation working with rural people. And if I
break that down more, because ninety nine percent of my
work is with the rural women's and that is the
most fulfilling part is when I can be part of
(10:33):
a woman's journey where either because of conversations we're having
or coaching or facilitation, she has some insight, some self awareness,
but just goes off. And when a woman has an insight,
it's just like, honestly, like I don't even need to
get paid to be doing that bit because she's just
realized something about herself. And I love being able to
witness that. That is the most wilfully thing. It's not
(10:56):
always a good thing she's become aware of. Like sometimes
quite often with a woman that I work with, the
realization the awareness can be that, oh my goodness, loss right,
I've been playing too small? And sometimes it can be
quite like it's like a punch in the guts. You know,
I'm not going to get many more clients after this podcast,
am I because I'm talking about how I punch people
in the gap. But it can be like that feeling
(11:17):
of all the air leaves you for a minute. You go, oh, no,
she's right. I have been limiting myself and so it's
not always a beautiful moment. But I do find that
fulfilling that I can be part of that because I
know what it will lead to. I know if we
don't have that awareness first, you can't really move on.
So yeah, the fulfillment for me is very much around
being part of women's journeys, the highs end, the logs.
(11:37):
I love that. Nothing could top that for me of
all the things I've done. So the first partific question
is how did I transition from farming to doing more
of the coaching and facilitation and working with women. And
it is a long story, but the short story is
that I did reach that point where that a lot
of farming women that I work with seem to reach. That.
You have the kids, you have the farm going, your
(11:59):
farming business go well, you have your partner, and then
you reach out stage or I reach out stage where wait,
hang on, is this it?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Like?
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Is this all that I get to be and do
and have for the rest of my life? Get up
every day, get kids ready for school, get lunchboxes, you know,
grab everything, yell at everyone, get in the car, do
the kidney school, all that drop off, come home. You know,
you're either working a little bit on farm, or you're
doing something on computer, or you're involved in your community,
or you're running around and you get the call and
(12:26):
can you please pick up a tire from you know,
tires and wheels, and you're doing all that stuff. And
then somewhere in the middle of that day, I found
that I used to be pausing and going, wait.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Is this it?
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And then I feel really guilty because I've got so much.
I've got three healthy kids, and I'm so grateful for
that most of the time, because not everyone has that privilege.
You know, I'm married to a man that loves me
and respects me and wants me to be happy again.
You can't take that for granted. We have a roof
of my head, food on the table, We live such
a good life. And sometimes I sit there think what's
(12:58):
wrong with me? Why do I want more?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Like?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Am I greedy? Am I selfish?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Like?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What's wrong with me? So I reached that kind of moment,
and now I know that I'm not alone. Now, ten
years later, I know there's so many of us that
experience some version of that, and so many of us
that are stuck in that place of I love my
family and my farming business and all my professional life,
but I want more. But then we don't know what
(13:24):
the more is, and we don't know how to go
and get the more. We don't have the support to
get the more, so we're stuck. And that's again, that's
where I have to end up with my careers. I
love helping that woman that I was back in twenty ten,
So that's sort of the it is. I had to
reach a low point, a pain point before I could
start the journey. And that's another long journey of you know,
another five or teen years of figuring out, and then
I ended up with coaching. But hopefully that kind of
(13:46):
gives you an idea of why the change.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
But that's what I want to ask you about, is
that long and winding ten year journey of how you
became a coach, because I want to know you had
that moment of is this it within that context of
having that beautiful and some would say privileged life. How
did you make that leap because it is a leap
for a lot of women who may have those self
realizations To that end, goal of doing something else, whatever
(14:13):
else is how did you make that leap? Did you
did you have mentors and champions that helped you propel
yourself forward or was it just share grit and self awareness?
Tell us about that journey that you took between that
realization and to where you are now.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Okay, So the external part of that journey, especially in
the beginning, it was very lonely. So in the beginning,
the first two or three years, there were no peers
and mentors. It was a very personal journey that I
was going through, and it was really on the outside.
What it was was a journey of discovery, so googling, researching,
trying to figure out what is it that exists that
had to fit in around my current life. I had
(14:51):
young kids and I wanted to be the primary caregiver.
It was not a role forced on me. I chose
to be a mom. And you know, Donald and I
chose our lives where he was the prime I'm rey
breadwinner and he was working very hard on farm, and
I wanted to be the primary care giver. So I
wanted to build my life around that. So flexibility, right,
and just so many things, even supporting our farming business
around carving, you kind of need to be available. So
(15:14):
there were all these barriers and probably the biggest thing
I'd say that helped me then is the mindset shift.
So that's the internal journey, is that going. Okay, I
could keep going, Oh, I really want to do something,
But where am I going to find something? I live
in hidden bush outside of in the cargo that someone
once called the ahole of the universe. Right, it was
someone famous that he had called it, Nick Jagibek, that
(15:37):
said in Chicago's like the a whole of the universe.
I'm sitting out here at hidden Bush on a dairy farm.
Where am I going to find jobs or opportunities? I'm
a mom of young children, and I support my partner
in our farming business. And I could have sat there
for a very long time, and I did, because I'm
talking about twenty ten as being the low changing point.
But it was building for a few years where I'd
(15:58):
kind of have these feelings and then I'd repressed them
and got, oh, but my life's not that bad and
carry on. Really, I had to reach a point where
I realized that I can't go on the way I am.
And what helped me to keep going with the grit,
with pushing through even though I kept coming through barriers.
Was the fact that I realized that I was turning
out to be a little bit miserable and that was
impacting the people that I loved the most in the world,
(16:20):
which were my kids and my husband. So I was
turning into what I now call angry mom and grumpy wife,
and a lot of women in workshops when I talk
about this resonated it's the light bulb and they go,
oh God, yes, she's talking about me.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
The kids can do something little and you yell at
them and you feel so bad in that instant because
they don't deserve that, you know. But it's partly because
my frustration. And so when I had that real insight
moment around oh my giddy aunt, I am turning into
an angry mom and a really grumpy wife, and I'm
hurting the people I love the most. I use that
that pain point, that embarrassment, that shame I felt in
(16:56):
that moment as my anchor on a very bumpy journey,
because it is a bumpy journey to come from exactly
where you said, you have the insight, but then how
do you take action, so I kept using that as
my why. Like, we learn a lot about having a
very anchoring why, and then the what and the how
can come. When I work with women and I keep
in mind them, you need to have a very compelling
(17:16):
why you want to go on this journey. It's not
enough to say, oh, I want more? Is this it?
You have to have really compelling why. And when I
work with them again, I talked to them about the
fact that your why in the beginning should be anchored
in pain. It's ugly. We don't want to do it.
We want to think about all the benefits. It's like
say you want to lose weight, right, and then you
think about, ooh, then I could fit into that, you know,
(17:38):
those that lovely dress that I want to wear, or
I can be more active. You think about all the
good stuff. But in the beginning, with human behavior, especially
with things that you want to change and that are
hard to change, it's not enough to have the vision,
the beautiful, exciting vision. You need to come from a
place of pain, because in the beginning, pain propels you
on the journey, and then absolutely, at some point a
(18:00):
third of the way halfway through, you are going to
be drawn by the vision. But most of us start
of going, Okay, I want to do more, I need
to do more. What am I going to do more?
And you think about the vision and we don't like
to think about the pain of where we're at. But
for me, what helped was really anchoring the fact that
I was hurting the people I loved and I kept
saying that to myself and I couldn't live with myself
with that. So that's what made me go and research
(18:22):
this thing called coaching because I knew nothing about coaching
in my mind, coaching because maybe this is two thousand
and ten, two thousand and eleven. By the time I
finally did my coach training, it took me eighteen months
to work up the courage and the guards to sign
up for a program. So in twenty twelve was when
I did my coaching training. So there's two years from
the breaking point to research and doing and throwing and
doubting myself. But kept anchoring myself with I can't keep
(18:45):
doing this. I have to change. It's not like, oh
can I change how in all those kinds of things.
So I could ramble on forever, but I wonder maybe
I should just pause mee.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I actually love that. I mean a lot of the
time when you talk about people's mentors and champions moving
through their career and your professional life, I suppose it
has been a little bit different to a lot of
others in I think, gosh, talking about the why and
then it needs to be anchored in a pain point,
jeaper is that is that state, And it's true because
(19:17):
people are more motivated to fix the pain than they
are to get the pleasure. Right.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
So, and the other thing about the pain point where
the rural women is that I have found that the
women I work with are so kind, are so caring,
are so nurturing. The reason why women are not thriving
that I find it's not because we're bad at thriving.
It's not because we're dumb. It's not because we don't
know how. It's because we don't know how to say no.
(19:42):
We are so nurturing to we give so much to
our communities, to our farming teams, to our partners, to
our children, to our parents. They're always doing and doing
and doing. And so I've learned this trick that if
I want to help a woman to actually change, I will,
you know, I always say hashtag sorry not sorry, But
I will make it about her impact on the people
(20:05):
she loves the most, and I will say, Okay, cool,
you're going to forget your dreams, You're going to not
look after yourself, call basic self care because you're too
busy doing all the stuff for your kids. How are
you turning up in the lives of the people you
love the most? And with the women. The only way
I can get there to actually start taking steps is
not just about the pain. But the pain's got to
(20:27):
be about someone else. Because we will put our pain,
we will wear there till the day we die. We'll
go to the grave with it. But if I can
make you feel guilty about the pain you're causing to
the people you love, then and only then, do I
find that most women will start going Okay, I actually
have to change something in my life because I won't
(20:47):
be that for the people I love. But I'm okay
with that being my life until my kids are older,
until we get a bigger farm, until we get more staff,
until there's more time for me. We're willing to give
up a decade of our lives, ten years, fifty twenty.
We're willing to wait until and they can fill in
the blank dot dot dot. But when I say saying, okay,
but who are you being during that time? Not for you?
(21:08):
Because I have found painfully through coaching it doesn't work.
I can you know, they get it in their head.
They understand the importance of self care and drinking water
and basic stuff. But most of the women, high flying
women that I coach, will say, why is it that
my self care is the first thing to go out
the window as soon as someone else needs me? Life
(21:29):
gets are busy everything, We just chuck that out the
window because we don't prioritize ourselves high now, So, knowing
that and openly and with their permission, I will make
it about other people in their life because that's the
only way I can help women take action. Sad but
effective hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And I think the other part of it as well
is that you can then elevate yourself to be a
way better version of yourself for those people around you
as well, and that actually elevates their experience of their.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Life with you.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think I think it's you know, it's a
win win both ways in my view, just a slightly
different kind of space. Now you've talked a lot about
the rural communities that you work with, particularly the women,
and I think also you have grown a really neat
community around you on social media, in media, in the
(22:24):
ebook that you've written, which we might talk a little
bit more about later, but in all of the community
spaces that you're in, what do you enjoy most about
living rurally, about being involved with rural people, about obviously
being a big part of them improving their lives. What
are the really big things for you that you love
(22:44):
in that space.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I suppose we probably touched on it a little bit already,
but the two key things would be one that I've
been blown away because I've come in from an urban perspective,
and it's been a couple of decades now, right I
am agret to using a ninety ninety eight, so it's
been a while. It's half my life has been urban
and half has been rural. But because I came into
it with that fresh, outsider perspective, I've been blown away
(23:07):
by rural people in general, in the sense that I
feel like, even though the world is changing and there's
good and bad everywhere, with rural people, they're just so
hard working, so giving, so nurturing. Like even now, if
something happens to one of someone in the neighborhood, everyone
and his dog, every man and his dog, turns up
(23:27):
with something. You know, they offer a tractor, or you've
lost some calves, so they'll offer calves, or they'll turn
up with soup and everything can they'll offer a couple
of hours of work, they'll offer. It's an amazing community
spirit that. Yes, I know the world's modernizing and maybe
we are losing, but that has really blown me away
(23:47):
about how caring and nurturing rural people are. Men and women,
even our rural men that like to pretend like that
quite tough, but you know, you see a real man
standing out there when he's you know, experiencing any sort
of weather, you know, disasters, if there's floods or there's droughts,
and they you see a man close to breaking when
he knows he can't fully feed his animals. You know,
(24:09):
they care so much about our stock, about our land,
about our fellow people. The thing, the flip side of
that is we still don't know how to care for ourselves.
If only we could turn some of that outward, carring
and nurturing a little bit inward. And that's why I'll
never be out of a job. Unfortunately, you know, I
will never be out of a job because it's such
(24:30):
a journey to learn to look after yourself the way
the rural community looks after everything around them. And the
other thing I love about living rurally is I do
love the access to nature. Like whether I'm sitting in
my lounge and like, but every time I look out
of my window, there's trees and there's you know, it's
we're not living in a city, you know, we're not
living in a concrete jungle. And the noise is always
(24:53):
birds singing in my garden or just being able to
stand on grass, you know, just or driving home, you know,
from look out to home and the landscape and the
sun setting and there's a you know, lambs over spring
bouncing around things that we take for granted. But I
think again, because I've had that privilege of coming in
from the outside, it still blows me away. You know,
(25:15):
you drive and I can I can see deer on
my way home, sheep cows, it's spread taking. It really
is beautiful. So it is the access to nature, and
I have to full disclosure admit that I'm I'm the
kind of person who loves indoors most of the time,
so I'm not out there, you know, making the most
of nature. But in some ways that's why I'm more
grateful for it, because I don't have to do a
(25:35):
lot to actually immerse myself and appreciate and you know,
just reap the bounties of nature.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
That's awesome, And you're absolutely right. I think the amazingness
of the outdoors and just enjoying those little things is
just so so powerful. Question, how do we take care
of ourselves? You mentioned that that is you know, that
is almost the Achilles heel of the rural community in
the sense that we're always looking after others and not ourselves.
And I know that you wrote a book on taking
(26:04):
time to thrive. What is the best way that you
can communicate some I guess some tips and tricks to
our listeners out there who might be struggling with actually
looking after themselves.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Oh that's a good question, and you know, like everyone's
so different, right, so there are no shortcuts. There's no
easy answer, And to be honest, I think all the
knowledge about looking after ourselves and what we need to
do is out there and is very easily accessible. There's
so many people have done a lot of good work
in the last ten years, fifteen, twenty years to bring
all that knowledge right at our fingertips. So many of
(26:36):
us know the five ways to well being. So what
I have found is that it's not that we don't
know what to do, you know, just look after ourselves.
And it's not that we don't know that we are
struggling a little bit. You know a lot of women
that we've got the self awareness now that I can't
keep going like this, I'm doing too much. I'm heading
to burn out. A lot of women that I'm talking
to right now, and the lead up to Christmas tie
(27:00):
and stressed and burnt out. So it's not that we
don't know where we are is unsustainable, And it's not
that we don't know what to do. It's the gap
in between what are our barriers to taking action and
what I have found with my work, And you know,
I'm sorry that I'm not giving you practical examples. I'm
giving you sort of a more high level theory of it.
(27:20):
But what I found with my work is that the
things that stop women from taking care of themselves is
that we don't value ourselves highly enough. And that's one
of those moments where you can feel like it's a
punch to the guys because our initial reaction is, oh, yes,
I do you know, Yes, I am, I do. Look,
I do think I'm important and you know I've done that,
and we do have that initial reaction. But it's your
(27:43):
actually speak louder than words. So if you do value yourself,
are you doing some of the basic things. Are you
drinking enough water every day? Because one of my mandtrums
to women is that you cannot change the world if
you are not hydrated. We've got these big goals, these
big dreams you want to chieve, you so much, but
our mind, bodies, and souls can't actually function the way
(28:05):
they're need to function if we're not hydrated. And we
forget to drink water. Water, which is something that you
don't need to go out to a gym to do.
You don't need to buy equipment, you don't need to
You literally can open a tap in New Zealand and
drink water. Most of us have access to water the
whole day, and we don't do that. So I don't
want to take it too big and broad. I think
(28:26):
when you ask me what can people do? Start small?
I would suggest that you start very, very small, and
you make sure you do the basic things. Ask yourself.
The question that I like to ask women is how
do you feel about the amount of water you're drinking
every day? Are you feeling like you're okay or not?
(28:47):
Just asking yourself that question. How do you feel about
the movement you're doing every day? Do you feel like
you're okay, you're not okay? Scale of one to ten.
I like to do the scale of one to ten,
So on a scale of one to ten, how are
you feeling about how much work your drinking on a
scale of want it? And how do you feel about
the movement? How do you feel about the amount or
the quality of sleep you're getting? How do you feel
(29:08):
about your nutrition the food you're putting into your body?
And you can start with just those four basics, because
you know, when you ask me earlier, what is what
are some tips and tools? It's for me. It's really
is always going to come back to mindset and self awareness.
You cannot change what you cannot see. You cannot change
what you cannot see. So if you can't see that
you're drinking only one glass of water every day. You're
(29:30):
never going to change it because it's not something that's
been red flagged to yourself that ooh, maybe I'm entering
two or three glasses of water a day. You can't
change it. So start with the most basic thing. And
the cool thing about that is that it sits within
your grasp. You know, you can be busy and still
try thinking and do the self awareness around how am
(29:51):
I feeling about by sleep at the moment? Am I okay, yep,
I'm good, and you carry on. But just checking in
with yourself, I think is a brilliant start. And especially
if you're feeling overwhelming stressed. I would hate to come
into your life and tell you, look, you need to
start sleeping eight hours a day. You need to start
looking after yourself because most want ago. Yeah I know, Loshnider,
(30:12):
but show me where my busy day I'm going to
suddenly go off for an hour for yoga, or I'm
going to go take time to connect with my friends
or you know it's but just start small, because it's
incredibly powerful that we yeah, we over look how powerful
it is to do the one percent every day. Yeah,
and how that will over time that changes your trajectory completely.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I find this myself. Actually, I think Emma's probably the same.
It's like this, you know, when you play that game
of gathering all the eggs into the basket and someone
can steal them out of the basket. I find well
being an overall health I suppose it's a little bit
like that because other things requirements from work, from family,
(31:00):
from friends, even just the environment that you're in. If
you're a farmer, you're living where you work, there's always
going to be these pressures and they're always stealing those
eggs out of your basket, and you have to get
them back and get them kind of staying there to
be in a really good space.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So I'm constantly battling with that.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
But I think, like you say, the first step is
that self awareness of what am I doing at the moment,
and I think also being okay and not beating yourself
up that you're not doing all five or or four immediately,
because like you say, that that small change or that
taking that one percent is really important. In the rural sector,
(31:36):
our statistics are pretty sobering in terms of our mental
health challenges. How people kind of are often dealing with
really difficult parts of farming life in personal lives. You're
probably coming into contact with.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
A lot of those women.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
What is something that you would change and the rural
sector and to improve those statistics to make to help
rural people, I suppose they've lived more thriving, be thrive
and love better lives.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
I'm going to take your question and think more more
about it from a rural woman's perspective, if you don't mind,
Because and I couldn't find any relevant studies in New Zealand,
but the closest thing I could come across was an
Australian study on the well being of rural people. And
what they found was that while with rural suicide, that
rural men had higher incidents of suicide completion, but they
(32:34):
found that rural women had a higher rate of suicide ideation. So,
you know, like we deal with the fact that, yes,
our rural men are struggling and some of them will
end up, you know, actually completing on suicide attempts. But
because we can't see that rural women are struggling and
there are more women rulemen struggling that actually attempt or
(32:54):
complete on suicide, it's it's a harder thing to tackle
and So the thing I would love if I could
we have a man wand and change about our rural
sector is that I would love to make our royal
women seen, heard and acknowledged. I think what's leading to
us not valuing ourselves is that we are invisible in
our sector. I think when people think of a farmer.
And I was talking to a university lecture the other day.
(33:18):
He does NBA students, and he said he asked his
students to draw a picture of farmers, and he was
talking about how they drew this picture of you know,
farmers in flannel shirts and gum boots, and his point
was that they didn't consider that farmers run multimillion dollar
businesses and there's so many other sides to it besides
the on farm work. But my question to him was
(33:38):
did any of them draw a woman? And none of
them had, So we're literally invisible in our sector, and
you cannot value what you cannot see. So I think
that real women are not valued in our sector to
the extent our rural men are. I think roal women
are invisible, and that if we are invisible, or if
we have been labeled that traditional sort of you know,
(33:59):
you're just the far. You're just cooking, you're just cleaning,
you're just raising the kids. Yes, those are important roles,
but you get this feeling. No one ever tells you this,
but there is this culture that you're not as important
as the man who's out there every single day working
really hard on farm. And like I said, no one
has ever come up to me and told me this,
So it's not like anyone is directly doing it. But
(34:20):
I believe it's part of our culture that rural women
are not valued as much as rule men. And I
would love to help us to become more seen, heard
and acknowledged because I know that's a key part of
why we won't prioritize ourselves. That it's not external. I
don't worried about blaming anyone. I'm worried about how we
internalize that that we ourselves don't think we're that important.
(34:42):
And again, I know some of us will push back
against that, but again I will say actions speak louder
than words. If we believe that we are important and
we adding value, we will prioritize our own self care.
We will drink water until we're doing those things. I
think that it's theory to say that we've come so far.
It's not a good not come far, right, There's so
many amazing women and organizations that have done so much
(35:06):
to get us to this point. You're twenty twenty one,
where you know, I can do the things I do,
but I think that the majority of our sector is
still stuck in year. But you're not that important, you know.
And so if you're getting that message every single day
that actually what you do is not as important what
he's as he's doing, then you're never going to see
yourself as important enough to take time out for yourself
(35:27):
to go do your walk because your kids need you more, well,
the farm needs you more, or work needs you more,
or the house needs you more, and those things are
your only way of adding value, and what you're adding
doesn't feel like that much anyway.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That's so spot on. It's spot on, and it's something
that I've been thinking about a lot because.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
In my day job, I am.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
The one presenting at a lot of functions and they
are rural functions, they are you know, dairy events, there
cross sectoral events. I'd say I present to mostly males,
and the people that ask the questions that all males,
I will very very rarely get a woman who asked
me a question, and particularly for events that are held
(36:08):
in the evening, finding one person can go who stays behind,
mainly the woman as well. So I cannot agree with
your comments enough. And I see it every day in
my own job as well.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
What will we do about it? Because I'm not about
a blame game, and I don't blame anyone for us
being where we are. It's the self awareness again, it's
if we can understand that this is where we're at.
I think the power sits with us women individually as
well as collectively. I don't think we need to wait
for the sector to change and for anyone to give
us permission if we want to be seen, heard and acknowledged,
(36:42):
if we want to show that there's value in what
I am doing in raising my three children and taking
on the primary role for that, I am doing an
incredibly important job. And if others don't see it and valuate,
it's up to me to valuate. It's up to each
of us individually to actually be speak up, show up
and be heard and feel valued. And that's how we
(37:04):
will slowly start changing culture from the bottom up. And yes,
I do think this is a cultural thing and an
institutional thing. It's a systemic thing that unfortunately, women are
not seen as having as much value in general in
the food and fiber sector, and so we need our
leadership to be doing it as well. But if we
keep waiting for that, it's I believe it's going to
(37:25):
be a very, very, very long wait. So we can
do it, you know. So I encourage people that are
listening to speak up when they go to these meetings,
you know, to be seen, to be heard, to be acknowledged.
And if you're not at that place, if you're not
one of these women that are able to go to
these events and industry staff for et cetera, then just
do it in your mind. Speak up in your mind,
(37:48):
make yourself heard in your mind, and value yourself enough
just in your household, that you will set aside, even
if it's five or ten minutes a day, to sit
down and have a hot cup of tea, because you
do deserve it by being who you are. So we
can all make a difference.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I think I love that you're absolutely right, and I
enjoy what you said about changing their culture from the
bottom up. And it's up to us as woman to
take control and to actually do something about it as
opposed for waiting for the industry to change. So thank
you some wonderful points there. And look, last question I
would like to ask you and loop right back round
(38:24):
to the start you said, I think you're approaching fifty
and perhaps the question now is okay, so what's next?
What's next? Philoshni? You've made such a radical change from
you know, where we began in our conversation about you know,
growing up in South Africa to hear where you are now.
But we really excited to hear what perhaps the next
(38:46):
twelve months might look like for you and some exciting things.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Oh I'd be excited to hear that too, because I'd
love to know what I'm doing as well. No, look,
I do it. Definitely have a couple of projects, you
know on board. I'm really excited about working with women
and horticulture because they're quite keen to support their members
and you know, create a bit of a tribe for them.
Very excited about that project. You know, very much values
aligned with living farming women, which is you know, my
(39:12):
business and what I do. But really always what it
is I think for the next little while is I
want to figure out ways to reach more women and
especially grassroots women. That's always it's probably more a ten
year outlook rather than a one year outlook. It's how
can I because you know, I do have opportunities, and
I have very privileged to have platforms like this and
(39:33):
in other platforms in my own you know, business and
all social media accounts and stuff. But I don't only
want to be sort of topped down kind of thing.
I really want to work with women that will work
with other women. I want to enable their neighborers. If
I can be involved with you know, other women all
around this country also want to do something that supports
other rural women, I'd love to support those women. Don't
(39:56):
know if I'm making sense, but yeah, really supporting enable
the enable, because I don't think it's up to me,
and I'm just one person, and I don't if you
don't want to be shoveling all around the country, and
COVID's going to be doing that. But there's so many
amazing women sitting there right now that have this little
dream or little hope that they would love to help
another group of women, but they don't have the confidence,
(40:18):
or they don't have the support and I would love
to be that confidence and support and give you that
kick up the barm and tell you, of course you can.
You can start with five women. You can, you know,
and I can help you with that. So I just
want to keep pleaching more women, especially to give them
the message that you are not alone. You're not alone.
If you're sitting there thinking, wait, is this it? What's
wrong with me? Like all these thoughts that we have
(40:40):
at one o'clock in the morning. Please trust me. I've
now worked with one hundreds of thousands of women and
now ten years later from twenty and ten and lost me.
I can tell you you're not alone because I've had those
thoughts and I keep talking to it. At the end
of my workshop, one of the most fulfilling things is
a woman comes up to me with big eyes and
grasp my hand. Goes, Oh, my giddy aunt, It's like
(41:00):
you were in my head. And then she almost scurries
out of there because she was seen. Someone saw her,
and in some ways it's powerful for her to be seen,
but it's also scary. So I really want to reach
more women to help them understand you're not alone, just
so we can talk about this stuff. And help her
understand there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with
You're not a bad mom, you're not a bad wife,
(41:21):
you're not a bad farming partner, You're not a bad anything.
If you sometimes want something for you, it's actually human nature.
So yeah, it's key. It's the discovery because I do
have a bit of an entrepreneurial sort of mindset, and
I love pivoting, and I try things, and I've done
an online cause, done the ebook, But it's I keep
trying to learn from the women themselves. How can I
(41:42):
provide this information to them in manageable, digestible, bite size,
applicable ways that they can apply in their life rather
than sitting here as an expert and trying to tell
them all these things. But if they can't actually apply
them in their life and make behavior change, then what's
the point, you know, Like, all this information that I'm
talking about exists. Nothing that I'm saying is stuff I
(42:03):
invented or came up with. It's the next part, how
do we actually help and support these women to do
those things at grassroots level.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I love the idea of coaching some a new generation
of coaches too, because that just amplifies your impact massively,
from what you can do as one woman and to
creating all these epical activated people who can go out
and activate another team people and it just gets bigger
and bigger. I think one thing that you will do
(42:35):
for any any workshop that you run, I'm sure, is
why those women with the time and space to think
about those things that they do need to do and
then it's not like, oh, I can't go and do
this thing anymore because I've sat down, I've taken the
time and I understand what it is now that I
need to I need to do to change and to
actually amplify my life and thrive. Right. So, just in closing,
(42:59):
I would love to just say a big thank you Oshani,
not only for speaking with us today, but for all
of what you.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Do for a rural woman.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I know that you've supported our organization with some events
in the past which were just fantastic. So here's a
big honoring part there from us to you. Thank you
and thank you for being so generous with your time,
with your knowledge, and with your thoughts today sharing some
really vulnerable parts of yourself and your journey. So yeah,
we really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Oh, thank you so much, Cleanie, Emma. And I appreciate
having this opportunity to talk about myself because I love
doing that. But I do would like to just you know,
clow that back to you ladies and say, you know,
this is a big part of what you know, my
mission is helping women be seen her and acknowledging you
are playing a critical part with this podcast in telling
real stories and creating a space where women like me
(43:50):
can actually be real and vulnerable. And you know, because
I did think about this podcast, and I could have
really polished answers about us stuff. People are either gonna
like you or they're gonna, you know not. And I'm
nearly fifty. One of the liberating things when I'm getting older,
it's like, oh, well so what, So thank you very
much for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I love that. That's also You're welcome and it is
so nice too just to chat and get to know you.
So thank you for your time. I've taken notes the
whole time.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Rural Women New Zealand is a community of like minded
women who are doing amazing things in their respective regions
in communities.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
This podcast celebrates the achievements successes and stories of our
rural women, which are also the foundations for our organization's
rich history.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
We want you to be part of our future story,
so please join us by clicking on the link in
the show notes, and we look forward to welcoming you
into the fold.
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